HomeMy WebLinkAboutSPAC.2023.0125.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION
JANUARY 25, 2023
1. CALL TO ORDER— Chairman Garman
Chairman Garman called to order the meeting of the Strategic Planning Advisory
Commission at 4:01 p.m.
2. ROLL CALL — Chairman Garman
Present: Chairman Patrick Garman; Vice Chairman Bernie Hoenle; Commissioner
Kevin Beck; Commissioner Mary Edman; Commissioner Jill Keefe;
Commissioner Cynthia Magazine; Commissioner Geoffrey Yazzetta
Staff Town Manager Grady Miller; Executive Assistant Angela Padgett -Espiritu
Present:
3. CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Pursuant to ARS. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (not required) on matters NOT listed on the
agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction of the Commission, and (ii) is subject to
reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. The Commission will not discuss or take legal action on
matters raised dung Call to the Public unless the matters am properly noticed for discussion and legal action.
At the conclusion of the Call to the Public, individual commissioners may (i) respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to
review a matter, or (ill) ask that the matter be placed on a future Commission agenda.
No one from the public spoke.
4. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes of the Regular
Meeting of November 16, 2022.
MOVED BY Commissioner Mary Edman, SECONDED BY Commissioner Cynthia
Magazine to APPROVE the amended minutes of November 16, 2022, Strategic
Planning Advisory Commission Meeting with the correction regarding the vote of Nay
from Commissioner Keefe regarding agenda item 8, reflecting vote: 6 - 1.
Vote: 7 - 0 - Unanimously
5. REPORTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND TOWN MANAGER
Otter A.I. Verbatim Transcription
Commissioner Yazzetta
Thank you, Chairman. Nothing to report but want to wish everyone a Happy New Year.
And looking forward to the good work were all going to do together. So, thank you.
Chairman Garman
Cynthia?
Commissioner Magazine
Just came from the Volunteer Expo and I see about almost every face here except one or
two who were also they're very exciting. I've participated several times over the years and
this has to be the largest group have ever seen. Both vendors if you want to call us that,
and people who were coming to take a look at everything that we had to talk about with
them. Very crowded. Lots of complaints about parking. Understandably, so I got here
early enough because I was helping to set up and I did find an empty space. But even at
that time, it was 2:15 and it was to start at 3:00. So, I found one empty spot and I got it.
And I still have it. Thanks.
Chairman Garman
Thanks, Cynthia. Mary?
Commissioner Edman
No, I don't have anything today. Thank you.
Chairman Garman
Okay, Bernie?
Vice Chair Hoenle
I'm a member of the Association of Pedestrian and Bicycle Professionals. So about two
weeks ago, 1 attended a webinar. And the main focus of the webinar was an integration of
the environment that started out as Complete Streets. And then it moved on to multimodal
concepts for an active transportation plan. And now they've grown to be an integrated
effort. And several municipalities are coming up with methodologies to put all these
different aspects together to make it a more person friendly environment to be able to
either use public transportation, or have more individuals out doing walking riding bikes,
and the individual that the trend has gone from. Basically, the vehicles to personal mobility
devices, now it's gotten into micromobility devices. So, the trend has started back with the
electronic bikes, the e-bikes, and they used to have to go into a rack after you use them. It
was all by credit card, but then you came back and had the lock come into the rack, and
then it would cut it off, so you wouldn't be billed for it. Then they went to GPS type areas
where you could go and leave it in a certain marked off area and leave the bike there and,
and the vendor would notice my tracking, if it's not in the square, yet a contract time to
come and make sure that he got the bike picked up and put into place that has migrated
now to scooters. And if anybody's been down around ASU, or almost any place in
Scottsdale, you're going to see the e-scooters and people going like crazy on the
sidewalks and cutting across the street and things like that. The next step going up on the
micro -mobility are the skateboards with a single wheel in the middle of it. And they're
actually here, 1 saw one in Fountain Hills going through the Four Peaks Park, and they go
up to 19 miles an hour. They are rated at well, that goes six to 12 miles and the single
charge with the tire in the middle. They're all terrain vehicles. So, they go over curbs, they
go through parks, they don't have to stick on a pavement. And they start ranging in price
from 1000 bucks up. So, when you see the kids having him, they've put some money into
getting those things. So, the whole idea of the webinar was to show that they're
multifacets of life involved now with just what used to be driving back and forth throughout
city. And they're continuing to evolve in the business, and with individuals on how to use
all these devices and work with one another instead of against one another. So, the thing
to look out for is I know the town previously has come up with a decision not to have
e-bikes in town by some of the vendors. But if you look at Mesa and Tempe and
Scottsdale, they figured out how to manage it, the industry has matured because they
used to just pile them up all over the place. So, it's gotten to the point where the vendors
have a limited amount of time to respond to make sure everything's kept orderly and in
designated areas. I go down tonight down to the Tempe Center for the Arts and by the
Tempe Lake. And you're going to see these things just all over the place. And they use
day and night because they have lights on him. So, it's something that we probably aren't
set up for now. And it may be a while before it hits the town, but it sure in the surrounding
communities around us. So, it was a very interesting webinar. It wasn't really based on
just the tool, but I like concepts, that towns are actually putting measurement criteria
against some of these things to see if there's value for the individuals and for the
community.
Chairman Garman
Thanks. Great. That was great. Thanks. Thanks, Bernie. Jill?
Commissioner Keefe
Last week, I had the opportunity to go to the Fountain Hills Community Theater and take in
Misery and really just appreciate what a little treasure that is in our town and you know, the
fact that we have talented neighbors and that are making this happen for our community is
really impressive. I would encourage everybody if they haven't seen the show, or the
upcoming one Beauty and the Beast to make the time and spend your entertainment dollar
in Fountain Hills. It was a lovely night. That's all.
Chairman Garman
Great. Thank you. Kevin?
Commissioner Beck
I just have one thing and it's more just to make a note. In the Fire Rock area, I guess since
November. And I wasn't here in November. But apparently many, many, many of my
neighbors have come and talked to me somehow, I've become the spokesperson there.
But we've got a heck of a water problem. And it actually, I've been talking to sanitation
group, and I've been talking with EPCOR. Literally hundreds of thousands of gallons have
rolled out, they've got a leak somewhere. And it's crossing over the roads. And it reminds
me of Tucson, if you're ever down there, and were during the rains for but this has
continued consistently since November. So, I've gotten pretty involved in talking with
EPCOR they've come out look, Preston in the Sanitation group has looked at it, he's put in
some requests, not much is being done. So, we're going to try to keep figuring it out. You
just hate to see good water, everything. We're talking about water. We're just going down
a wash.
Town Manager Miller
I would like to talk to you afterwards. Because there's a lot that I've been getting the
neighbors up they're contacting us like along Leo and all that. So, I'll talk to you a little off
our subject here. But I'll talk to you a little bit.
Commissioner Beck
Good. If I can help mitigate. Sure, well, thank you. Glad I mentioned it the other than that
it's a nice, cold day
Chairman Garman
Alright, great. Thanks Kevin. Grady?
Town Manager Miller
Just real quickly, I wanted to let the commission know that we discussed today, at our staff
meeting the future council meeting agenda listing. And John Wesley, the Development
Services Director has his direction to get on the 21 st Council Meeting Agenda, the
Environmental Plan. So, before we had talked, that we would, the goal was to get that to
the council by the end of February. So that's all I have. And then Bernie had sent me some
really interesting reading material. Bernie, I'm not sure you send it to the whole group, or if
it was just a few of us. But that exciting project that's going on in downtown Tempe, that
the development, could you, I think that might be a really good either presentation. Or if it's
not, the outside party coming in, maybe it could be something you could get a hold of
something because I thought that would be fascinating showing the transit -oriented
development, and all the exciting things that are going on there, because it just shows you
the future of development and how it's going in the direction It's going.
6. PRESENTATION: International Dark Sky Discovery Center by Joe Bill, President.
Otter A.I. Verbatim Transcription
Chairman Garman
Alright, were going to move on to the next agenda item, which is our presentation. For this
afternoon, we've got Mr. Joe Bill, the President of the International Dark Sky Discovery
Center Board, is it a Board or Committee? Okay. You never know if it's a commission
board or committee. But really appreciate Mr. Bill coming to brief us today on the
Discovery Center. I know we had quite a few of our commissioners were interested. And I
know its short notice. And we're able to get all of you over the holiday. So, I really
appreciate you coming in today. So, the floor is yours.
Mr. Joe Bill
Happy to be here. And I know some of the people on this commission, it looks like we
have a great commission, we have a stellar audience. By the way, John is a great guy.
So, I'm happy to be here to just share with you what we've been doing for the past seven
and a half years, because what were trying to do for Fountain Hills is going to have a
major impact on the future of Fountain Hills, the branding of Fountain Hills, it just impacts
in so many ways. So, I am very happy to share all this. Now what I'm going to do is often
we customize these presentations, there are some groups we present to they want to
have us focus more on the astronomy side some want us to focus on what can I do about
my lights, you know, so we focus on that. Others want to know more about nocturnal
animals and human health. So, what I did today, I've got pretty much every area in here,
but I'm going to go through it's going to be so fast those slides will be like a movie, okay.
But the reason I want to do that is because I want to show you the breadth of everything
that we are working on. And then I do like questions at the end. So, if there's anything that
you want to know more about after I go through this, that's what I'm here for. So, if that's
okay, I'm going to just get rolling with the movie, if you will PowerPoint. Okay, well, this.
Just to start off, I always have this slide up. This is a picture of the Fingers of Creation
Nebula, and this picture was taken by Hubble telescope, and this one is by the James
Webb, and you can see the difference in the clarity. It's quite amazing. But as you know,
we became an International Dark Sky Community in 2018, January of 2018. And we
sometimes refer to Fountain Hills as a dark sky oasis in the Valley of the Sun. That's kind
of a branding thing. Okay, so you can use that. I think it's, it's something that might
differentiate us from a lot of other communities around Phoenix. Okay, so how did this all
get started? Well, seven and a half, eight years ago, they came out with LED lights, which
are great lower energy. But at the time, they were all the bright white ones. That's all they
had. And those are the ones as you will see those are the ones that really create light
pollution. And the reason is, those bright white lights have a lot of blue light in that
spectrum and is the blue light that causes the Rayleigh scattering, which means that the
wavelength of blue light is such that it reflects off molecules, whereas the rest of the
spectrum goes straight to the ground from the sun. That's why our sky is blue. So even if
you have a shielded, high intensity, light, very white, some of that blue light doesn't even
get to the ground, it hits the air and goes up all over the place. So that's just something
everybody needs to know. And it creates skyglow. So, this is the dome of what's over
large cities. That's why you when you're standing in there, you can't see the sky, because
you're trying to look through that, that skyglow dome. Now, here's a picture from the North
Rini of the Grand Canyon, which is a very dark area. But even from long distance, as you
can see the sky dome over Flagstaff over Phoenix way in there, right? That's the sky
dome over Las Vegas, and so on. So that's what we're talking about there. This is
interesting, because as you can see, from the progression here, light pollution has been
getting worse. So, the first picture, these are satellite photos, starting from the upper left,
that's the 1950s a lot of dark areas in the United States. But if you go down to what is
projected for 2025, there's very few there are very few dark areas left. Well, we just found
out this last week, there's a big research paper that was released. And there's an article in
the Republic and places all over the country. They found out just recently that the satellites
were not capturing the effect of the blue light, because their receptors we're not picking
that up. So, they did another study in another way and found out that we are we're losing
our ability to see stars at a rate of about six to ten percent per year, because of the many
LED lights that are going in a lot of them still bright white. Okay, so some have referred to
this as the river on fire moment for light pollution. Those of you who have been around as
long as I have might remember the Cuyahoga River in Ohio that started on fire, that was
in 1969. And that really got people going on water pollution as a big problem. And it was
addressed. This what we're finding out now could be our river on fire moment for light
pollution. So, this is very recent news. Anyway, so seven half years ago, we formed the
Dark Sky Association, because we found out about the existence of the International Dark
Sky Association that could certify communities as dark sky communities and we have a
mission of educating the community about the advantages of smart lighting. I go through
these questions with groups, I think you know, all this stuff. What is shielding? What are
lumens? What is CCT? Low shielding is? Well here in Fountain Hills as an example. The
upper picture shows what they did when the contractor didn't realize we had changed our
outdoor lighting ordinance. So, it was called to their attention. And you can see the
correction that was made with the lower photo much smarter lighting. Same thing with a
gas station. What are lumens it's a measure of brightness, we don't use watts anymore,
because Watts is just the power shielding begins at a certain intensity level and Fountain
Hills. What does CCT correlated color temperature, think you all know most of this stuff?
We want our lights to be more on the amber side of the spectrum. So, our guideline for
Fountain Hills is 3,000k or less 3000 degrees Kelvin. So, it's a color temperature. And so,
what this is interesting because Grady knows we replaced all the parking lot lights to make
them in compliance with the new outdoor lighting ordinance. Well, one day the worker left
where he had changed the light on one side, but not on the other side. And I just happened
to be there. So, I took a picture. And you can see the difference between the amber and
the white. And what helped us along the way in 2016 is the American Medical Association
weighed in on this and they realized that actually these bright white lights are harmful to
human health. And so,they unanimously recommended that all outdoor lighting be 3000k
or less for various health reasons. And sometimes I'll go into this I want or this and I want,
okay, what are nits? Now nits? That's how we measure the brightness of computer
screens or electronic message boards, which are signs that are in some areas. There are
too many of them. They're very bright. And so, they're like these, okay, and if you have a
say a bright white one like this, that's more than 100 nits studies have shown that If you
look at that light while driving down a road, especially as you get older, your pupils don't
dilate as fast as they used to. So, when you look back to the road, everything seems very
dark for a little bit. And that's considered road blindness. And it's dangerous. And that's
why you need the next sign, which says, don't hit the car in front of you. So anyway, so
our regulations are this. Now, as you all know, the sign ordinance was repealed several
weeks ago. And so, at some point, we hope to, of course, get this back in place. And even
wonder if it should be in the outdoor lighting ordinance, instead of the sign ordinance, but
just something that does need to be dealt with because it certainly can impact us and
whether it might impact our ability to stay designated as a dark sky community is, is
questionable on this. So, we really need to watch this. And the last thing I want to say too,
is the Dark Sky Association, something Oh, they're against outdoor lighting. No, we're not
against outdoor lighting. We just want smart lighting and that's it. Okay, and then the Dark
Sky Association, which is our sister board, there are two boards. There's the Fountain
Hills, Dark Sky Association Board and then there's the International Dark Sky Discovery
Center Board.
And the Dark Sky Association Board has star parties. Every Friday night, they're up at a
Adero Scottsdale. We call them the star dudes. And they set up their telescopes for the
guests at a Adero. This is the Bortle Scale. This is if you're into astronomy, it tells you
what your sky brightness level is. So, the one way on the would be on the left is like if
you're in New York or Los Angeles, that's what you're going to be looking at in the sky,
nothing and Fountain Hills is about in the middle. So, for being so close to a metropolitan
area, we have actually pretty good dark skies here. Adero Scottsdale has a telescope on
every on every balcony and every suite. Lot of places around the world are starting to offer
Astro theme food and drinks. There's a Stargazer at Adero Scottsdale. It's pretty good, by
the way. And then the Dark Sky Festival has all kinds of activities, solar walk, laser tours,
food and drinks. We're in the Thanksgiving Day Parade. You've probably seen the signs at
the entrance of the community. We have beer glasses, which I love because I like beer.
But also because the backside has, I love the statement, Siruis is only 8.6 light beers
away. And some of you probably know that Sirius is the brightest star in the sky. That's
the hunting dog constellation that you see down there Sirius is in that constellation, which
is right next to Orion, the hunter and wineglasses. And now this is interesting. This is the
growth of designated International Dark Sky places. The blue represents communities.
Fountain Hills is a Dark Sky Community. The orange or dark sky parks like the Grand
Canyon is a dark sky park. So, Saguaro National Park, etc. And what's really, really
interesting is that the Smithsonian is opening up an exhibit on March 23, about light
pollution. They chose 11 Out of the 200 Plus places around the world to kind of feature as
part of their exhibit one from the United States, Fountain Hills. So it's really cool. Now, I
say it here but we can't put it into paper yet they were going to get lots of information with
the Smithsonian, they've sent me some emails recently. They don't put in the paper yet.
We're gonna give you lots of materials, lots of stuff for you to do a proper press release
with so we're waiting until March 7 for that to come. So just you know. And this is just a
preliminary rendering of one of their halls that they're developing. They're at the Natural
History Museum in DC. And so very quickly we found out we got found out by dark
secateurs nation we got unanimous town council approval to update the outdoor lighting
ordinance fulfill the requirements. And then 18 We got designate now, when we were
designated because its so rare, close to a metropolitan area. Look at the publicity we got.
These were it was in papers across the country, and even some international and so it
was so cool. Some of us thought gee, what more can we do? This was really cool. So
what we did is we gathered had some stakeholder meetings, Grady participated. We had
Mayor Kavanagh at the time, some Council Members, CEO of the Chamber, Dr. J. who is
now the superintendent participated in some of us. We had a series of meetings should
we have an observatory? Should we have observatory and exhibit hall? Should we have a
planetarium? Should we have a theater?, blah, blah, blah. So after a series of meetings,
we finally went vague instead of going home. So anyway, so we that's how we ended up
with the four components observatory, exhibit hall, planetarium, and theater auditorium.
So step one, we formed a nonprofit corporation. We have a board of directors, you might
recognize some of the folks here, got a logo. Why International? Well, it's because no
other facility in the world focuses on how dark sky preservation relates not only to
astronomy, but also to the well-being of humans, plants and animals. Then we all thought
we ran into a brick wall because we said, we were told, You can't do this without a
feasibility study, you gotta better prove it's sustainable. So we found, we looked it up, we
kind of research it. Well, it's going to cost $100,000 to do a feasibility study. And actually, it
was Alan Magazine who spotted an article in the Republic one day and brought it over to
the house. He said, look, ASU is starting to do feasibility studies for free if you compete for
it and win. So that's what we did. We competed for it. And we won. So they did it. And
they said, after a lot of work, it was sustainable. So that was helpful, then we came up
with all kinds of ideas for how were going to use it. Here's what the telescope will look like.
That's a 27 and a half inch planewave. Telescope, that it's great for public viewing, you
can do research with it, it's really definitely going to be the biggest telescope in the greater
Phoenix area. That's why ASU is very interested in this project. Well have a planetarium
with the latest tilted dome technology, a really nice inspiration theater that can do all kinds
of things. Even just, you know, we'll be able to show first run movies. Now, we aren't
advertising that. Okay. But I want you to know this. Because that when it off hours, that'd
be a great use of the facility. And so we've were planning to have the technology there to
be able to do that. So I want to say one more thing about the movies. Well, one thing,
don't advertise that, okay, because remember, the focus is on things that we're seeking
donors for, they don't want to fund a movie theater, okay. But they do want to fund STEM
education and all the other things that we are doing, but off hours, why not. And this is, of
course, with the immersion zone will be highly interactive and experiential. We're also
going to have an Einstein Exploration Station, which is going to focus on the sort of hands
on teaching of the physics of light. In fact, when I talked to person at Taiwan
Semiconductor yesterday, that's the part that they're most interested for us. So we'll keep
that conversation going. We also gather a lot of support statements, starting with Mayor
Dickey at the time and then expanded to all the other support statements that we've
gotten, you'd find them all on our homepage, on our website. So that's helpful too. When
we talk to potential donors to see the kind of support we have, then John, or John
Kavanagh managed to get two and a half million dollars for us from the state. Now that
took us to the next level. Okay, now this is getting real. So that's when we got Swaback
Architecture involved, we got PGAV destinations involved to do the exhibit hall, McCarthy,
Building Companies, lots of meetings, lots of stuff, and then develop the floor plan. Okay.
And once the floor plan was finalized, then positioned in on the site, how it would fit. And
then once that was done Swaback could actually do the elevation and create what the
facility would look like. So that those were the steps there. We asked a lot of times people
say well, what's the inside gonna be like, right? So PGAV a destination PGAV
destinations, which does a lot of stuff like this at museums, and Disney and Kennedy
Center, and Smithsonian, whatever. We said, we want a wow factor for the for the lobby.
Okay. So they came back with this drawing, there was an interactive screen at the front
that plus this stuff. And so it was a wow factor. We all said, wow. And then they told us the
price. And then we went Wow, again. So anyway, were not sure we're gonna open with
this, but it's a possibility down the road. But this would be the hallway to the planetarium,
the hallway to the observatory. This is as you enter the Immersion Zone. And then looking
at some of the exhibits just going through these. Don't talk about any of them. The this is
about bird migration. And that's something people don't realize, they we lose hundreds of
millions of birds every year because of light pollution. And so that's why I've got this here
to show you. What happens if you'll watch this short 32nd video here These are These
are birds that get distracted by overlit buildings. So these are birds that fly around this
building until they drop from exhaustion.
So what you see here, one, after one night in Toronto, there was a birding group that said
let's go collect all the birds in downtown Toronto and see what we get. That's what they
got. So this happens in big cities around the world every night, so it adds up. This is
another exhibit nocturnal one. Fireflies, of course, are affected by light pollution. They
aren't in where I grew up in Wisconsin, they aren't there anymore. Monarch Butterflies are
affected, nocturnal pollinators, bats, I always like to say, this is the one that gets people's
attention, since they didn't notice this story, but long those bats are crucial pollinator of
Blue Agave Bees. And they're a very vulnerable population now because of light pollution.
So what happens when we run out of Blue Agave? Bingo, no tequila. And that's, that's
maybe when people realize, maybe we have a problem here. So, and these are just more
exhibits inside the facility. This is Archeoastronomy, I was just going to, as you probably
know, the Southwest is there's a lot of Archeoastronomy in the Southwest. This happens
to be Chaco Canyon. Some people aren't even familiar with this. This is New Mexico
cross just crossed the border. And Chaco Canyon was the biggest structure in the country
until the late 1800s 600 rooms four to five story's tall. And if you've ever never been there,
it's really awesome. And this is part of what it looks like. This is the Sun Dagger because
Archeoastronomy has to do with how the Native Americans and others would keep track
of the seasons. So on the summer solstice, we were there on that day, the this dagger
cuts right through those that spiral there. So, it's pretty neat. I'm going to end with one
quote of the day for today, "under sunlight, you see the world okay, But under dark skies,
you see the universe". So how many of you have seen that two and a half minute narrated
3d flyover? One every has everybody knows some No. Okay, I'll play if you don't mind
that two and a half minute, and then well be done. And then you can think of the questions
you've got to. Okay, here we go.
Video Narrative
The future is ours to create. The sciences are ours to teach. The next generation is ours to
inspire. And human health, nocturnal animals, and dark skies are ours to protect.
The mission starts here in the world 17th International Dark Sky Community, Fountain
Hills, Arizona with an educational attraction that will benefit the entire state of Arizona and
beyond. Presenting the International Dark Sky Discovery Center. Imagine with us a dark
sky observatory and looking deep into the cosmos through the largest telescope in the
greater Phoenix area. Imagined further a 150-seat inspiration theater using the latest in
audio visual technology to spark the imaginations of future scientists. envision an
immersion zone that captivates the minds of all in an interactive educational experience.
And finally, imagined taking young and old on journeys across the universe under the
dome of the hyperspace planetarium. The 22,000 square foot facility will be a unique
international centerpiece of science -based education. Visitors will learn not only the
importance of dark skies for opening the window to the observable universe, but also for
the well-being of humans, plants and animals. The journey begins in the lobby, as you are
introduced to the many experiential opportunities that await each experience will cultivate
a greater understanding of dark skies, our planet and the universe. The journey continues
as night sets in, and magic begins in the dark sky observatory. As you view the universe
like you never have before. It is a magical experience you will never forget. Help us bring
that magic to life with your donations. The future is ours to create.
Mr. Joe Bill
Hey, so that's the end. And I love the questions' part. So, I'm here to try to answer any
questions you might have about our project.
Chairman Garman
All right. So first, let me let me thank you for the presentation. That was great.
Mr. Joe Bill
Sorry, I went kind of fast. I talked fast. But I know that I do slow down for when I have
fewer slides, but I wanted to get through all pretty much all of them. So, you kind of get
like I said the breadth of the whole project.
Chairman Garman
Great. I'm sure were going to have a few comments. This is an opportunity. If something
on my list I wanted to bring up if you indulge me for one second for all the commissioners,
you know, when it's your turn to speak, usually ask the chair, right, I recognize you. And
then you can make your comment. Sometimes you have to get my attention, wave, wink,
smile, whatever, what I find is really good is when you hit the button and the red light
comes on. It's like a bright light. And I know that you want to talk. So, utilize all of those,
but the bright light works as well. So, I wanted to open it up to see if there's any questions
or comments from the commissioners. Kevin?
Commissioner Beck
So, I'll start. Joe, it was great visiting with you earlier. Thank you for that we got really
excited with there, you know. So, I was able to see some of this a little bit before. I'm
curious about our neighbors. So, I'm curious about, you know, Scottsdale, Cave Creek
even beyond that. Fountain Hills is leading on this. I see But what are our neighbors
saying? Do we reach out to them? Do they have similar things going on? Because
obviously would be good. You know?
Mr. Joe Bill
Okay, so Cave Creek, for example, they made a concerted effort to get designated as a
dark sky community. But Grady will remember that proposing that to a council can be
challenging, because some councilmembers will think well, you know, we have to turn our
lights off at eight o'clock, or it's going to negatively impact business, and I want my
business to have bright lights, because that's how I get business, you know, so it's not an
easy task. So, they lost by like a four to three vote or five to four, whatever it is, I think
twice. And so, I think they've kind of just set it aside for now until the council changes. The
bigger the city, the harder it is. There's so much already in place in those large cities that
to get that through, there'd be so many people that want to keep their bright lights or keep
their electronic message board or there's just, it just gets to be too much. So, we're
fortunate that we had a council that ultimately supported us. And we were able to do what
we have done so far. Thanks.
Chairman Garman
Jeff?
Commissioner Yazzetta
Thank you for the informative presentation. It's the second time I've seen it. And every
time I do I get more and more excited about this, like we're talking about astronomy is that
a passionate hobby of mine, so I'm really looking forward to this coming to fruition here in
Fountain Hills. I know fundraising is ongoing. Once the funding is fully secured. How long
does it take to build?
Mr. Joe Bill
While the builder McCarthy building company said 12 months, but if any of you have ever
been involved with building projects, okay, at least 50% more usually. Sure. But it
depends, of course, but that's what they said. They say, oh, I think we can do it in 12
months. Well, well see. But that's what they answer they gave us.
Commissioner Yazzetta
Sure. And one other question. I know the sign ordinance has been repealed and that's
going to be tinkered with and hopefully put back online. What is the certification or
recertification look like for the dark sky designation?
Mr. Joe Bill
Okay, we Okay, so there's an annual requirement, you have to do an annual report. And
in that report, you have to outline all the things you've done in the community in terms of
educating the community. We list all the presentations that any of us have given. So that's
included to serve as part of educating the community. If you have any projects you've
done, make sure you identify those have some pictures, and then kind of just fill out this
whole thing, once a year, and then what we do is we draft it, and then it goes to the town
actually to John Wesley. And then the town takes a look at it because it's a town
designation. Okay. It's not designation of our board. It's a designation for Fountain Hills.
So then once it's massaged a little bit by the talent then is sent off and we're good for
another year.
Commissioner Yazzetta
Gotcha. Thank you.
Chairman Garman
Jill, yes.
Commissioner Keefe
I'll give you a broad open-ended question. As you and your board are focused on bringing
this facility to fruition. What should the town be focused on preparing for the for when this
facility exists? It'll attract a different type of business. It's an economic stimulator. There's
a lot of implication to this. So, what is on your wish list that the town focus on in
preparation?
Mr. Joe Bill
Okay, the audiences we anticipate are several. One, we are going to have school buses
coming from around the valley, and so we are going to have programs for them of course.
We are going to have tourists, definitely and I know that there are many ways you can
kind of coordinate things with the business community. Like, you know, you might maybe
part of our admission ticket, you get 10% off at Euro Pizza or whatever, okay, or the other
way around. Okay, and I know that the Fort is interested, they know about this. And they
would love to see when we get a busload of people from Sun City coming over to see our
facility, and they're going to want them to go to the Fort for lunch, and probably some
gambling, right. So, they know about it. I'd like to see the business stay mostly in Fountain
Hills. And I think we can do that. So, in terms of what the town has to prepare for, you
know, right now, I can't say anything specific. I, you know, we did an analysis of parking,
that was one of the things we looked at, to make sure do we have enough parking? And
the consultant said, yes, it should work out. Now, that doesn't mean there wont be some
cars parked on El Lago once in a while, just like, whenever we have major events here in
town. But in terms of what the town has to prepare for, I don't think there's anything
specific that I can think of about the community garden? Well, I think John mentioned
about the community garden is I think some of you know, we actually are in the process of
moving it. And so, everybody's happy, just so you know, they're happy, were happy,
you're gonna end up with a great new garden, and including a restroom, which they've
always wanted. And so, we hope to have that done by the end of May.
Town Manager Miller
It if I may, because I think Joe did a great job with your presentation. But I think to add,
there has been some work groundwork from the town on this. First of all, we've looked at
the site, we've looked at the utilities and you know, what's available there. We also know
that at some point, we'll have a lease agreement. So, it right now we have a council
decision that was made five years ago, or something like that, maybe six, six years ago by
the council, that this would be located here, we also just recently changed the driveway,
which was not a really good driveway the way it was designed, so that would allow buses
easier access to come in and go. It also made it easier for the community garden. We're
also looking from an economic development standpoint, that there would be obviously
impacts, you know, like maybe with hotel visits, and obviously, the avenue that sounds
because we think people might walk from there to maybe do restaurants and things like
that when they're taking a break. There's also some anticipated that there might be some
workshops or some other professional development type opportunities that might take
place there for rental opportunities. And they may be looking at hotel stays, and also
looking at, you know, opportunities to dine and shop here in town. So, but we've done a
lot of analysis on the utilities and as far as you know, we'll need to have a lease in place.
Right now, we're looking at this being a standalone facility. But it's not to say that maybe in
the future right now with for instance, the museum and library. Those are in town facilities,
and the town provides some basic custodial care and utilities for those buildings. I'm not
saying that were committing to that right now. But that could be something that in the
future, that might also be a future impact.
Commissioner Keefe
Yeah, if I can follow up and segue off of that I, I would suggest it's going to be really
important that we execute portions of the downtown vision that tie together and make
walkable, the downtown corridor. If we're going to have it be attracting visitors, especially
in the evening hours, we're going to want to make sure that that's not only safe but easy
for them to find Georgie's.
Town Manager Miller
Absolutely. And you know, you're talking signage, and you're talking walking. We also as
far as sidewalks go. We also have some areas in the town center here, that we're looking
at revising the sidewalk infill program so that we start from the downtown and start going
this way. Right now. We've been kind of working on where we have, like, you know, the
most critical need where a lot of traffic is and where we need to probably start doing some
finished sidewalks so that there's not sidewalks to nowhere. But that's all part of the
infrastructure to support something like this.
Chairman Garman
Cynthia?
Commissioner Magazine
Yes, hi Joe. You probably knew that I might be the one to ask this question. Before
COVID, the hopes for funding were very high. And then COVID came and really hit the
progress of getting funding. Where are you at this point?
Mr. Joe Bill
Good question. We launched our capital campaign one month before COVID. So that was
not fun. And because what happened two things, one, we couldn't meet people, you know,
you want to get a major donor, you got to meet them in person. Okay, there were no
meetings in person, foundations, all of a sudden, their money was directed to more
important needs, you know, because other, you know, whatever it was, during COVID,
there were a lot of organizations that needed serious help that already existed. So yeah,
we look at that as a kind of a two-year setback, actually. But things are different. Now,
fortunately, and we are making lots of key contacts. We are 1/3 of the way $25 million
project, we're at eight and a half. So, we're pleased about that. And we're pleased about
like I said, the with, with fundraising, you put a lot of fishing lines in the water, you meet a
lot of people, and then you never know when something can happen quickly. So, we can't
answer a specific question about when it's going to be funded fully enough so that we can
put a shovel in the ground. But we're, we're in it, to win it. And so, we think it's going to
happen.
Commissioner Magazine
Is there one more follow-on question? Is there anything we can do within the town to help
you find funding sources?
Mr. Joe Bill
Well, okay, so what we're trying to do is get past the tipping point, the tipping point is 50"/ .
Once you get past the 50% point, suddenly foundations and even private individuals,
individuals start paying more attention like this is going to happen. And so, we need
another 4 million to get to that point. We have gotten government funding from the state.
We, in fact, staff member of Senator Kelly wants us to meet them out in Washington, DC.
So, we might be going I don't know yet. So, the government can help us get there
because it's a public private partnership. But we already know like, for instance, Virginia
Piper, they said they're in once we get to the 75% level. So, we just have to get to that
point, where all of a sudden, you all know what the tipping point is, and then fundraisers
will tell you the same thing. That's their experience, you get to that tipping point, all of a
sudden, it starts happening. So that's what we're working on. And we're optimistic. One of
the things I just want to mention, did I answer that are?
Commissioner Magazine
Absolutely. Okay, thank you.
Mr. Joe Bill
I wanted to say one more thing. And we're learning this over and over, people don't realize
how much of his facility like this can be used for corporate functions. Corporations that
have meetings at Adero Scottsdale or elsewhere, they, they rent the facility, they rent the
entire facility for a unique kind of evening dinner experience with private tours, etc. And
there's a lot of money involved with those kinds of programs. And I was just reminded the
other day when we met our audiovisual company that we think we'll be using, they said
they had to rent a smaller room, just classroom size, but it had all the technology, which
we will have. And it was $2,500 for just a couple hours. So, it's like, there's, there's money
to be made with the different kinds of events, you can have weddings there, we have a
private terrace out back. Some people said, you know what, for some people, you know,
for end -of -life services, it's like your last stop before the stars. So, all those things can be
considered. I mean, not that we want to talk about that very much, but it can happen. And
so there are a lot of different revenue sources for the facility.
Chairman Garman
Kevin?
Commissioner Beck
I guess two things real quick. And I don't want to, you know, dominate too much words
here. But interesting that you say that the Aquarium and Talking Stick is an interesting
business model, I think and I don't know what the whole thing it's, I guess it's called the
Aquarium, but it's the shark unit go in the bathrooms and the sharks look at you. And, you
know, I have had probably five corporate functions, their, Christmas parties, with probably
1000 people in them. And that's what they do. It's amazing, because it's just opened it up
and you bring your own people and it's the facility. And so there's more and more of that,
of course in Chicago at the Natural History Museum, same way, they'll close it down, you
can do the same thing. So, I that would be of interest. So, I'm glad to hear that that that
could really be something to bring to the attention of some of the catering companies or
even some of the corporations that the other quick one is, you mentioned the birds,
disorientation. I know in the Midwest, for instance, suburbs, small towns facing the same
thing, geese, the geese. You know, they're, they're amazing. They just fly over in a V.
They're still there. They're still there in the winter. And its a big newscast now, because
here it is 20 below, freezing rain and the geese are dying on the ponds because they don't
know how to migrate. They don't know where to go, they get lost. And they're not
mentioning this as much as they thought it was COVID at first. But I mean, it's funny you
listen to the stories in these Internet, or these private companies or small town companies,
or news and they it's dark sky, because of the light that and there's hordes of cardinals
that come just like south of Chicago. They don't know why they don't know why it's
because they're not migrating.
Mr. Joe Bill
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So, there's, there are so many research papers coming out now and
all the different aspects of light pollution that affects so many ecosystems. It's just
incredible. The stuff that's coming out now, so we are on the forefront of this movement.
And if we can, we want to be the first one in the world, to have this kind of a facility
devoted to this. And in Talking Stick, you know, 1, I did meet with the owner, and also the
director, they're directors, a sharp guy had a lot of tips, and the owner asked him, So how
long did it take you from the when you first thought of the idea to when you actually got it
fully funded. And he said, 25 years? I'm out of here. So. But anyway, it takes time, as you
know, you got to build relationships, and then you never know when it's gonna happen.
Commissioner Magazine
If I could just end with a story that you'll appreciate, Joe. How many years ago did we have
lunch in Colorado? You and Nancy and Alan and I enjoyed lunch. And you said, you
know, we just finished this Dark Skies designation? And shouldn't we be doing something
else? How about we do something in the museum patio, and put a telescope there? And
Alan looked at you and said, Joe, go big. You've gone big.
Mr. Joe Bill
I think it actually happened when we were at a group of us all meeting and we were
debating on what to do. And he said, he finally said, because nobody could make a final
decision. He said, to the group, he said, Let's go big or go home. So that's what we did.
And there have been times when I wish I had gone home. But that's how we got started.
Chairman Garman
So, I have a question. And then a final comment. If I could, I was gonna make sure I'm at
the end. So you did talk about fundraising. And I wanted to put that together with the
timeline, like hard numbers, because, you know, the prices of everything have gone up so
much in the last couple years that you know, a house that cost this much, costs now this
much, just within a year? So, are you keeping up with inflation for the donations? And
what's the total? Where are you now? I mean, like, hard numbers,
Mr. Joe Bill
Okay, so it's still a $25 million project, but I have to say that the inflation is eating away at
our contingency. And so, it's very conceivable, we will need to go a little bit beyond 25
million. But to be honest, I'm just not overly concerned, because there are just so many
contacts that if we can get to a certain point, we're gonna get it done. And if we need a lot
more money, we'll get it.
Chairman Garman
So, did I hear you say, you know, I'm thinking as thermometers in my head, you know,
those fundraisers, like, it's like, you're somewhere between 10 and 15 million heading
towards 25?
Mr. Joe Bill
We're at eight and a half or 1/3 of the way and that what we want to do, we're real, we
really want to get to 12 and a half. That's our, that's our goal, we got to get to that 50%
point, it's really critical.
Chairman Garman
And then my last comment is, you know, this is the Strategic Planning Advisory Committee
and the Strategic Plan that that we do an update every five years so it's forward looking.
So as things come up to you or if you think of things that you know are forward looking at
5 - 10 years from now that that we should be looking at the town should we looking at to
maybe help projects like this in the future please you have a welcome or welcome mat is
open to come back contact me, contact Angela, Grady and come back and talk to us
about it because you know, we do update that plan and things we put in the plan that are
approved by the by the council tend to get done. It's been my observations anyways, So,
you're welcome to come back and discuss things as they come up.
Mr. Joe Bill
Well, one of the things for sure, when we get to the point of putting a shovel on the ground,
when we know were going to go for it, you really need to stop and think about what how
that might affect the branding for the town, how the town can participate in coordinated
efforts or collaborative efforts with the facility. You know, I mean, it's a big project, and
the town is going to want to get involved, and so is the Chamber and other organizations.
And we all work together to kind of maximize the usage of it. So yeah.
Chairman Garman
Thank you. Thank you very much for coming today. Thank you for the presentation.
COMMENTS FROM THE CHAIRMAN
Transcribed Verbatim Minutes
Chairman Garman
Thank you. Thank you very much for coming today. Thank you for the presentation.
Okay. All right. So, were going to move on. The next one is comments from the chairman.
I do a just a couple to put out. I think we'll get out here on time today, later than we thought,
but still on time. I wanted to mention, I was thinking over the holidays, about, you know,
we talked about topics to put on the agenda to talk about in the future, just like this topic.
And I thought that I was going to have a conversation with Angela and Grady about
adding possibly adding an item on our agenda. That's just like future topics. Right. So, its
a standing agenda item. And just like we have, you know, comments or reports from the
commissioners. So, there's possibility that if that's okay, I mean, I'll check to make sure
that's okay. Then that would be the time during our meeting. Because were in this
fact-finding kind of mission. That would be the time where commissioners could bring up
different topics. And we could hash them out and see if that's something we want to
present to the commission in the future. So nothing ironclad, I just thought that I would
throw that out, again just to let everybody know, that's what I was thinking. We'II see if
that's okay. I had along those lines there's two in the bullpen right now that they both want
to maybe present in February, I'm thinking about stretching one in February and one in
March, again, that the Maricopa Sheriff, Sheriffs Office was going to give us a
presentation. And then the also the chairman of our one of our parallel commissions in the
town, the Fountain Hills, I think its the McDowell Mountain Preserve Commission Chair
Scott Gryzbowski is going to come and brief us. And then I'm going to turn around and
brief his commission on our Strategic Plan as well. So those two are have already said
that they will come and brief us. So. Okay, so those are those two. And we talked about
number three, we already talked about number four. All right. So that's all my comments.
All right. Grady?
Town Manager Miller
So I just wanted to just add one thing to your suggestion, which I think it's a great idea,
which is having an item always on the agenda for future topics to add to future meeting
agendas. We just have to be really careful if we have a discussion about just adding an
item. It's just really, somebody needs to just suggest it and you know, we can't really have
a discussion, because it's not agenda size for a discussion. So that's all I'm just trying to
say. Not a problem with it. I like how that works. And I think I'll work really well with the
way that this is working. You know how people have come up with ideas to bring for
discussions? Yeah.
Chairman Garman
I'm just hesitant to surprise everybody. So I just wasn't really asking for comments just for
head nods and understanding that that's kind of what I was thinking about. I think I brought
that up before anyways. Okay. All right. We're on track now.
NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, February 22, 2023.
The next meeting of the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission will take place on
Wednesday, February 22, 2023, at 4:00 p.m.
9. ADJOURNMENT
MOVED BY Commissioner Kevin Beck, SECONDED BY Commissioner Jill Keefe to
ADJOURN the regular meeting of the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission at 5:00
p.m.
Vote: 7 - 0 - Unanimously
ngela piritu, Exe
STRA
COM
G ADVISORY
Patric 'I arman, Chairman
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular
Meeting held by the Fountain Hills Strategic Planning Advisory Commission in the Town Hall Council
Chambers on the 25 day of January, 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a
quorum was present.
DATED this 22 day of February 2023.