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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023.0207.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL February 7, 2023 1. CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Mayor Dickey called the Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on February 7, 2023, to order at 5:30 p.m. and led the Council and audience in the Pledge of Allegiance. 2. INVOCATION Pastor Rick Ponzo from the Calvary Chapel Fountain Hills offered the invocation. 3. ROLL CALL Members Present Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember Allen Skillicorn Members Absent: None Staff Present: Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Amson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall Audience: Approximately Forty-nine members of the public were present. 4. REPORTS BY MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND TOWN MANAGER 5. SCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCESIPRESENTATIONS A. Presentation: Monthly Report by Captain Kratzer of the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office. Captain Kratzer of the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office provided an update on law enforcement services and answered the council's questions. 6. CALL TO THE PUBLIC Pursuant to A.R.S. g3e<31o1(H), public comment Is permitted Mot equired) on matters NOT rsted on the agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction o1 the Council, and (kJ is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. The Council will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised during Cell to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed tr discussion and legal action. At the conclusion of the Call to the Pudic, individual councilmembers may (i) respond to criticism, NJ ask staib review a matter, 0 (ill) ask that the matter be placed on a future Council agenda. The following residents addressed the council under the Call to the Public. Written Statement Caroline J. Morelli The following residents addressed the council: Larry Meyers Crystal Cavanaugh Liz Gildersleeve Dianne Price Amy Stokes Gene Slechta 7. CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS All items listed on the Consent Agenda are considered to be routine, noncontroversial matters and will be enacted by one motion of the Council. All motions and subsequent approvals of consent items will include all recommended staff stipulations unless otherwise stated. There will be no separate discussion of these items unless a councilmember or member of the public so requests. If a councilmember or member of the public wishes to discuss an item on the Consent Agenda, he/she may request so prior to the motion to accept the Consent Agenda or with notification to the Town Manager or Mayor prior to the date of the meeting for which the item was scheduled. The items will be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered in its normal sequence on the agenda. MOVED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski to approve the Consent Agenda, SECONDED BY Councilmember Allen Skillicorn. Vote: 7 — 0 passed — Unanimously councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye A. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes of the Regular Meeting of January 3, 2023, and the Joint Meeting with Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation Tribal Council of September 29, 2022. B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approving an Extension of Premises Liquor License application for the Fountain Hills Elks Lodge 2846 for a charity event on May 6, 2023. 8. REGULAR AGENDA A. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE DIRECTION: Provide guidance and direction to staff on possible parameters for temporary sign regulations. Mayor Dickey opened the item for public comment. The following resident provided a written statement. Liz Gildersleeve MOVED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis to postpone consideration of this temporary sign ordinance and possible direction of the sign ordinance until the Town Council Retreat on February 28th, SECONDED BY Councilmember Hannah Toth. Vote: 7 — 0 passed — Unanimously Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Adopting an Administrative Policy for Invocations at Town Council Meetings. Mayor Dickey opened the item for public comment. The following residents addressed the council. Crystal Cavanaugh Ted Blank MOVED BY Councilmember Hannah Toth to approve the draft policy Councilmember Brenda Kalivianakis submitted, SECONDED BY Councilmember Allen Skillicorn. Vote: 6 —1 passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Nay Mayor Dickey Aye C. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Authorization of transfers for the purchase of two temperature -controlled storage pods for use at the Community Center. Mayor Dickey opened the item for public comment. The following residents provided a written statement. Stephanie Czopp Jack Gramm Liz Gildersleeve The following residents addressed the council: Rick Watts Peggy Yeargain Kim Wolborsky MOVED BY Vice Mayor Peggy McMahon to approve a budget transfer not to exceed $30,000 for the purchase and installation of two storage pods, SECONDED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis. Vote: 6 — 1 passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Nay Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye D. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Relating to any item included in the League of Arizona Cities and Towns' weekly Legislative Bulletin(s) or relating to any action proposed or pending before the State Legislature. 9. COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION to the TOWN MANAGER Item(s) listed below are related only to the propriety of (I) placing such item(s) on a future agenda for action, or (if) directing staff to conduct further research and report back to the Council. 10. ADJOURNMENT Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on February 7, 2023, at 8:06 p.m. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Ginny ickey, Mayor ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: Lin a G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 7'h day of February 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 215' of March 2023. Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 1 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Post -Production File Town of Fountain Hills Town Council Meeting Minutes February 7, 2023 Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC x s r ♦ s Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Page 1 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 2 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Please stand for the pledge. ALL: (Audio skips) -- to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. If you'd like please join us. We have Pastor Rick Ponzo here from Calvary Chapel. PONZO: Good evening, Madam Mayor, councilmembers, Grady, and staff Thank you for allowing me to come and pray tonight. If you're so inclined, please pray with me. Lord, we thank you that we have this opportunity to come together and Lord hear what the council is going to discuss tonight. We pray that you would give them wisdom, that you would give them understanding and discernment and clarity, as they make decisions for what will best for our town. I pray these things in the name of Yeshua Hamashiach, amen. ALL Amen. PONZO: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Here. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor McMahon? MCMAHON: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicom? SKILLICORN: Here. Page 2 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 3 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES DICKEY: Thank you very much. We'll start with our reports by Town Manager, Mayor, and council. Grady? MILLER: Thank you, Mayor and council. I wanted to just remind the council that we kind of officially started our public budget process. Last night, we held our first of -- our Budget Open House. We had a number of people attend and I think that the finance director did a really good job of explaining how the budget process works and people had some really good, well- informed questions as well. So I'm very hopeful. This was something that came out of our strategic plan that suggested we do more to do outreach. So I was very pleased with how that went. Also, I know we'll probably hear from other councilmembers tonight, but the Concours in the Hills was just another knockout event and I'll leave it at that, because I know there's others that want to chime in on that. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. And yes, you were right. I wanted to give a shoutout to Concours in the Hills. What a fantastic event for a great cause and welcomed a lot of people to town this weekend between that and the Gun Show. So a really exciting time for Fountain Hills. We're a much more vibrant community than we get credit for and it was great to see some traffic in town, even though maybe the traffic itself wasn't so great. But the people were wonderful. GRZYBOWSKI: Ditto, ditto. Is it my imagination or were there more cars this year? I felt like there were a lot more cars because I felt like I saw less people because there was so much to look at. Also, the Gun Show was pretty dam awesome. We actually went both Saturday and Sunday because we decided we didn't buy enough on Saturday. Plus we walked, so we had to carry the stuff home. I also attended the Greater Phoenix Economic Council 2023 Economic Snapshot, the GPEC Board of Directors Retreat, and we had three Arizona League calls. There were multiple bills that had been proposed to take sales tax revenue or Page 3 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 4 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES power away from the cities and the towns. And I'll just mention them briefly, because I know well probably want to talk about them more later. But some of the bills just this week that we talked about was HB 2418, which is mandating emergency response time; SB 1117, which is by -right -zoning; SB 1245, which is mandating where the VLT monies get applied; and SB 1274, which allows data center operators to receive a TPT refund on certain expenses. These are only some of the examples where our state legislators appear to not be acting in the best interests of our town. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? FRIEDEL. Thanks, Mayor. A couple of reports on various things that I've done. The Wednesday Farmer Markets have been getting very crowded now. They have two produce people there, so if you haven't been down there, take a shot down there. It's pretty interesting. And I attended the Domestic Violence Regional Meeting with MAG. And also, two things I want to mention about that is they actually exposed a direct link of gambling and the problems with gambling and how it relates to domestic violence. So they also had a phone number; if anybody needs it, it's 1-800-NEXT-STEP for that. And then also teen dating violence is also on the rise. So on our town website, we've got a series of different webinars that are out there. So the town put that all out on our websites, so there's a series of different webinars that'll be hosted out there as well. I also attended the rollout of TAMA. So some people might be asking what TAMA is. It's The Avenue Merchants Association. And that was cohosted by the Chamber and that organization, Jim (ph.) and Phillip (ph.) -- Jim is the owner of Manny's down on the The Avenue. So this is a new launch. They are hoping to bring some exciting new programs to the downtown avenue area, so look for some things and some new happenings down there as well. I also attended the Volunteer Expo and that was very crowded and again, kudos to our staff for helping put that on in our Community Center. 1 attended the Havenly art decoration. If you haven't seen that inverse fountain that's there on the corner, kitty-corner from Town Hall here, it's an interesting piece and Page 4 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 5 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES that completes just about everything out there I think now, too, so -- and their residency is up over 90-some-odd percent there, too. So that's good to hear. I also attended the State of the Town conversation put on by our Mayor. And the Concours -- yes, we had over 1200 cars, I believe, in there this year. And a record number of people out there, as well as, I think -- the numbers aren't in yet on what was raised for Children's Phoenix Hospital [sic], but I hear it's going to be probably another record breaker as well. So again, if you didn't get the opportunity to see that, it was quite an event. We were down there for about 5 hours and an unbelievable amount of cars and people down there, too. So one other thing. I want to give a shoutout to is the Legion Post 58 here in town has got a program -- I'm sorry, a project going on there, where they're going to be replacing their temporary shade structure. And I want to give a shoutout to our staff, Rachael and Kevin and Gary Millis (ph.) who works with the Legion on this project. The town is going to be the beneficiary of that temporary shade structure at some point. So we've had several meetings. John Wesley and his group were involved with that, too. So that is going to happen and I think plans are going to be submitted fairly soon for that to be taken care of. So again, this is a project where we brought the town and the Legion together and the town is going to benefit from this directly, so kudos to working together on getting that done. It shows that we can do that. So look for more on that and also they're raising funds for that. If anybody wants to make a donation, stop by the Legion and drop off a sizable check, will you? And then like was mentioned earlier, the Budget Open House, I want to commend David Pock. It was excellent. A lot of good questions were asked and a lot of good explanations as well. So those are important for people that want to know where our money is going, how we're spending it, and he did a good job of answering all that, so thank you. MCMAHON: Good evening, everybody. I would like to first say that Mayor Dickeys State of the Town was fabulous. It was well -attended. We have a lot to look forward to. She's doing and has done an excellent job. She keeps our town vibrant. So if you have not attended, you can go Page 5 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 6 of 71 FEBRUARY 7. 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES ahead and look at it online, and just go to our website and you'll just put in Mayor Dickey's State of the Town. And 1 definitely would take the time to watch it. It was a great, great event. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MCMAHON: I also attended the Dementia Friendly Committee, and we're moving forward with our town becoming a recognized dementia friendly town. I also attended on behalf of the Mayor the Havenly art project opening and it is fabulous. It is a sculpture that depicts our fountain that was upside down and it took me a little bit of a minute to kind of like, okay, understand that. But I do, and it is a great sculpture. I think it is a great place for it at -- coming into downtown and complements the Art Walk. There is also a small bench there that you could sit down and reflect when it's not a 116 years old -- I mean 16 years out. And so it's really, really nice to have that corner finished. 1 attended the ribbon cutting for Mike Pameditis and his wife Coco for Edward Jones and that was well -attended and a fun event. He's lived in this town almost all his life, right? MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. MCMAHON: So it was pretty fun to be there. I attended the East Valley Partnership Board Meeting and we were discussing working with the Arizona Commerce Authority and went over all of the wonderful new businesses that are going to be coming into Phoenix with billions and billions of dollars and thousands of jobs, et cetera, so that it was really nice to hear the CEO of the Commerce Authority explain all the things that are in their pipeline and coming up. We have a lot to look forward to. There was also a ribbon cutting for Real World Dance Studio. It is a really good place to go learn to dance. It's MT-- it's Enterprise over there. They've been in town a while, but they finally got their own place and renovated it, so if you're interested in learning how to ballroom dance or anything, just give them a call. They'd love to have you as a client. So today I attended the MAG Economic Council Meeting and we also discussed all the new businesses that are coming into town and Arizona Commerce Authority spoke Page 6 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 7 o/ 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES there as well. So they're all working in conjunction to make sure that Arizona is very successful. And I did attend the public meeting last night on our budget and of course, with David Pock. He adds a little bit of humor to it. He's funny. He really explains things and it really helped you to understand what is in our Streets Fund and how much the East council contributed to that, in the millions of dollars, and that moving forward we will have more money for the streets. So thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. As you can all tell, it's been a pretty busy couple weeks for us. This is a lot longer than usual. I attended the Munch and Music at the Community Center. I play the saxophone as many of you know, so this was really exciting for me. It was sponsored by the Fountain Hills Civil and Cultural Association. They do this once a month from January to April. The Fountain Hills Saxophone Quartet will be featured April 27th, which I played with them before. I highly recommend you go. It's going to be a really good event. Go to ilovefountainhills.com/munchandmusic [sic] if you want their schedule. I also went to the special ribbon cutting ceremony for Mike and Coco Pameditis. I met them during Leadership Academy. They're exceptional people. Like, they said they've lived here their whole life and they have a business here with Edward Jones and they are very active in our community. And they're very generous, too -- donors for our community. There was the Mayor and four councilmen that went there, which was the most I've ever seen at a ribbon cutting, and the crowd was spectacular. And so I wanted just to acknowledge that. I also attended the Concours in the Hills. I was there with probably a thousand friends and my 1964 Corvette, which went over pretty big at the show. And they raised so much money for Phoenix Children's Hospital and I'm so happy that they do that here and we're such a fundraiser for such a wonderful cause. And so thank Peter Volny and Allen and Sandy Beyun (ph.) for putting that on. What a spectacular event. Again went to the Budget Open House again this year with David Pock where we had a very good conversation about the budget and next year, I would strongly encourage Page 7 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 8 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES the people in this room and the people watching to go. That's where you'll find out, you know, how the sausage is made. The State of the Town, I went to. The Mayor did us very proud. She gave a very good presentation. The staff put on a presentation, an audio-visual presentation that was second to none. I was so proud of that event and the professionalism that was displayed. Lastly, there's so many more things, but I did go to the TAMA event with Gerry Friedel -- with Councilman Friedel. And it's nice to see the business owners in our downtown section getting together to promote their businesses to get that vibrant -- if 1 may quote you, Ms. Mayor -- that vibrant community that we seek so much and they're very energized and it's just good to see our business owners getting together and trying to get that vibrant exciting downtown. So thank you. SKILLICORN: Thank you very much. First, I really have to thank Peter Volny. That Concours. The town really shined over the weekend with all the visitors here, all the wonderful machines around the lake. It was just a wonderful experience. Really proves Fountain Hills is open for business. I also want to thank John Wesley, even though I don't see him right this moment. We went -- there he is. We went driving around town looking at signs. Just thank him for his time and his expertise, sharing some of those details of what's -- you know, what's what. Where the areas are zoned and really giving some really good advice there. Also did a tour of A New Leaf, the homeless shelter in Mesa, just last week. And that's all. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. I went to usual Regional Council meeting and the Executive Director, Eric Anderson, is retiring at the end of the fiscal year. He had a career at MAG more than two decades. Grady, you know that. We appreciate his leadership and service and he's going to make sure that we finalize our work program and the budget process that is currently underway. I attended Mesa Mayor John Giles' State of the City this morning. It was quite the production. But I wanted to mention that I felt like we were honored in Fountain Hills for our State of the Town because Mayor Giles from Mesa came, Mayor Peterson from Gilbert. Page 8 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 9 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES We had Mayor Hartke from Chandler and then Mayor Lewis who used to be the mayor of Gilbert but now he's the head of East Valley Partnership. So it was really kind of exciting to have them come here. And I want to echo thanking the staff under Manager Miller. The video was great and all the accomplishments and moving forward. So again, it was very nice to happy everybody there and I thank the people who did come. Okay. Our next item is going to be our special appearance presentation by Captain Kratzer. He's making his way up here. Welcome. KRATZER: Good evening, Madam Mayor and members of the council. I just had a couple of things. I know this is called an update and usually I do try to give some updates, but I just wanted to talk on a couple of points tonight. First off, the Concours and the Gun Show this weekend. Traffic was very heavy. It was clear it was well -attended. So most of you made a lot of great points about the two events and from law enforcement's perspective, it's been a long time since we've seen that kind of traffic and parking all along the downtown streets. So I know that's a great thing for the town. The best part about that from our perspective was there were no major accidents, no major incidents. Everybody was well-behaved. The event went great at the Concours. I don't believe we had any incidents at all during the course of the event, and the same for the Gun Show. So I think that just speaks to the community and even the visitors who came to it, that everybody enjoyed themselves and the weather was beautiful and it was a great event. The next thing I wanted to do is just talk about one of the programs we have with the sheriff's office and that's just the citizen ride -along program. And I wanted to extend that to the residents, make sure they understood that if there was any interest at all in coming and doing a ride -along with a deputy for a patrol shift or part of a shift, that they're able to do that. And then I wanted to make sure that we extended that to the council as well. Obviously, that would be something that if any of the councilmembers were interested in Page 9 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 10 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES doing, and Councilmember Kalivianakis came and did that prior to being a councilmember. She rode with Deputy Hampton, who's our SRO. She was out on patrol during that time. And I think it was a pretty good experience, based on the feedback I heard from council. And so that extension of that invite is there for any of you that want to come do ride -along, whenever works best for you timeframe or, you know, if you wanted to do a whole shift, partial shift, we could do that. Just if you wanted to see firsthand, you know, what a day looks like with a deputy. And now I'll move in just to my update. 1 wanted to talk about some of the incidents we've had recently at some of the local parks in town. And I wanted to just kind of bring maybe some awareness for residents in a couple of different ways, in terms of being aware of incidents at the park and calling MCSO if they see anything going on at the park or anything suspicious. At times, we see a little bit of a correlation when schools are out where we see a little bit more vandalism or damage to the park playground equipment or things at the park and that's not at all saying that, you know, our youth in town are causing problems. 1 mean, there's always some one -offs, but we have had three incidents in the last few months that the town park staff has worked with us in reporting in a timely manner and us looking at the video and trying to resolve the issue. And one of the things that MCSO and the town does really well, the park staff, is just communicate really well. The town park staff always reports these incidents really quickly to us. Kevin Snipes and Rachael Goodwin always have a really good understanding of what the issue was, what the damage is. We always need to know what the cost of the damage or graffiti or whatever that issue may be. But with their surveillance system -- they've got a lot of surveillance cameras at the parks and those have been instrumental in us being able to get to the bottom of some of these issues and work with either the parents or the children or whether if charging is appropriate to be able to successfully charge and get restitution for the damage to the playground equipment. So -- and just, you know speaking to that is that the amount -- when we do have these incidents at the park, it creates a lot of added work for the park staff in terms of Page 10 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 11 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES cleaning whatever may be there, the repairs. And then that cost for the additional repairs, if it's not resolved, it's then passed along to the town and the residents. So it's important and we're just asking that if, you know, we have residents who see something at the park and they see, you know, kids damaging property or doing things or there is a problem to please report it, or something suspicious, and we're happy to come take a look and check it out. A couple of the incidents I wanted to just hit on briefly, just so you kind of know what we're talking about. I mean, we have had at the Fountain Park -- one of the new pieces of equipment had been -- there was four or five kids that pulled down one of the pieces of equipment and the video that was there was able to paint the picture of what occurred. We were able to reach out to -- the town staff was actually able to identify most of the kids involved with the help of social media and then with our SRO at the schools being able to identify some of the people involved. And we're working right now with that one to ensure that the parents arc able to come in and take care of the charges or the fees, and if charging is appropriate down the road. I wanted to just talk also when I'm done about a town ordinance that's in place that we rely on that is a pretty helpful tool when dealing with situations like this, where maybe the child doesn't need to be charged criminally with criminal damage, but there is a town ordinance that's civil in nature that really gives us the teeth that we need that helps the town get those repairs done and pass that cost along to the parent. But then we had two incidents at Four Peaks Park where one was a decorative retaining wall with blocks on it where two kids were seen kicking off the blocks and then smashing the blocks and we were able to identify those students also through the use of the SRO at the school. In both of those, we utilized the town ordinance in dealing with the parents and the kids to be able to have some hopefully successful resolution when it gets down to the court. And then the final one we had was four kids that were damaging trees and pulling them out of the ground at the Four Peaks Park that were just planted. So you know, they might be minor issues, but they definitely are issues that impact town staff and the residents and again, you know, it's not to say that there's a problem at all that's probably any different than any other city or town with a park and Page 11 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 12 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES youth problems. But it is one of the things we work closely with town and have a great partnership with park staff, Rachael and Kevin. And I just wanted to touch on this and I think it's important for the parents to understand if their kids are involved in damaging town property or, you know, maybe they're not aware of what they're doing. The town ordinance is Section I 1-1-3 and it's called Defacing Public and Private Property and it basically lays out that it's unlawful for any person to deface any public property, including but limiting to -- and it goes into writing, drawing. An important one is pasting. We get a lot of -- we had during election time a lot of posters that were pasted onto walls and surfaces that caused a lot of cleanup hours for the town. So it gives us the teeth to charge on those. And these are civil in nature, so we charge -- but the ordinance requires that the civil offense -- it's a civil sanction, but that both the child and the one adult or guardian of the child be issued that civil citation as well, so that then the court can adjudicate the case. And again, it's civil. It's not a misdemeanor or anything like that, so there -- Now, if it's an egregious matter and it has to be charged with criminal damage, we still have that ability as well, that we could go through the actual criminal charging. So just wanted to bring awareness to those issues. We have spring break coming up and we're just hoping, you know, sometimes during the school breaks or holidays we can tend to see a little bit of an uptick in those type of incidents. So we just want to bring awareness. So thank you for the time. I know a lot of that was public awareness, not necessarily an update, but it's helpful with this type of venue to get that out. So I'd be happy to take any questions or comments. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I just have two things. The first one is just a statement and then the second one I have a question for you. Good law enforcement begins, of course, with the sheriffs office, but it really resides in the people that live in the town. If you sce something, you have to say something. If you see vandalism, you don't want to get involved in it, but take a picture and forward it in an email or take it to the sheriffs office. It's very important. The other thing 1 found is a lot of times somebody will get a bike stolen or some Page 12 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 13 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES other very minor -- I guess a minor infraction, and instead of reporting it to the Sheriff, they post it on Facebook. That's a problem, okay? If you've got a -- if there's a law enforcement problem, an issue, do it to the nonemergency, or if it's an emergency to the emergency, to Maricopa County Sheriff's Department, rather than the first thing is going on your Facebook page. So that was my statement. I've had some people approach me about the Luna apartments. I don't know if that's on your radar or not, but from what I understand, there's a lot of possible drug dealing, a bad element that's hanging around those apartments. I guess the Presbyterian Church was broken into twice. This is anecdotal. I don't know this for a fact. I didn't witness it. But is that on your radar? KRATZER: Councilmember Kalivianakis, no, I'm not aware of the issues with the Luna apartment complex. But I will take some time this week to look into that and see if we have any police calls for service. Or we get a lot of people that put information through the tip line and it's a pretty effective tool. They can remain anonymous. They can put it in through the computer. We get a lot of emails and then there's a system that we have where they're all tracked. We get audits each month of our tips that we received to make sure they we've addressed them. So I'll go back and look at that and look at our calls for service and see if we are seeing an increased reporting of incidents like that and then do some law enforcement stuff to address that. But I don't know the answer offhand. It's not on my radar currently, no. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Yeah, it just recently came up and I'm sorry I didn't give you any notice of this. But I just wanted --just call it to your attention. KRATZER: Thank you. SKILLICORN: Mayor, Captain. Part of it, actually went off of councilmember here, about the posting on social media. So I saw, 1 guess, Saturday there were some people that were backyard breeders Page 13 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 14 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES that were selling dogs at the Concours. And I actually saw a little bit of it. 1 think I saw -- but online I saw something else posted. A little bit of research, it does appear it was against the law. I don't know if that is on your radar or not. KRATZER: No, and typically, Councilmember Skillicom, for situations like that it would usually generate a call for service that would kind of get us into motion on that. SKILLICORN: Okay. KRATZER: Most of the time, you know, a deputy walk in the park that was hired for security, for off -duty. I don't know that they would've observed that and paid attention and realized that it is a town ordinance that they would've had to have, you know, a business license -- SKILLICORN: Um -hum. KRATZER: -- or whatever would come with that. So no, I wasn't aware of that. I know during some of the other events, like the Fourth of July, we get some unlicensed vendors that come out and try to sell dogs. SKILLICORN: Okay. KRATZER: And we try to stay on top of those. But you know, we'll note that and make sure on the upcoming events. I'm sure it was prime because of the number of people there that, you know, someone saw the opportunity to make some money on the side there. SKILLICORN: Yeah. So in the future, I guess, I'll be more proactive on that. And then on -- speaking of proactive, over the weekend I noticed a couple more locations where the signs that are glued on. I was just thinking I was going to go clean them up. But should I call your office and go, this is where it is? KRATZER: Councilmember Skillicorn, that's a good question. On some of those things, you know, it's usually at the discretion of the person. Things that are posted onto surfaces, you know, if it does require the town or town staff to come out and clean it up, or someone to come clean it up, we typically -- we talked about it a little bit at the last one. We like to stat and track where incidents are occurring. You know, that's not to say that, you know, we're now going to know where the people that are adhering posters to things are, but it at least gives us an idea and we can make sure and follow up with the town that that has been cleaned up appropriately. Page 14 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 15 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES So you know, I would say yeah, if it's not too much of an inconvenience for you and if, you know, it's not tagging or graffiti that makes the look of the town, you know, detrimental. It's kind of more of a discretion call by the person. But if you report it to us, we would take the report. We'd go and make sure the town followed up, the town staff, and cleaned it. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, one good message I think we got was we have security cameras in our parks. So remember that. KRATZER: And they're very good. MAYOR DICKEY: And thank you so much. KRATZER: All right. MAYOR DICKEY: Appreciate all your help. Our next item is Call to the Public. Do we have speaker cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor. We do. First, we'll start with a written comment from Caroline J. Morelli, and she -- you have that in front of you at your dais. She's speaking about homelessness. And then first up, we have Larry Meyers. MEYERS: Mayor, council, Town Manager Miller, staff I'd like to speak tonight on my most not favorite topic, the detox industry, but more directly to the divisiveness surrounding the issue. On February 3rd, 1 emailed all councilmembers and Town Manager Miller, after John Wesley responded to my query after why the P&Z passed the commercial ordinance on January 9th, it has yet to show up on an agenda for discussion and possible action. Four councilmembers acknowledged my email. The Mayor and two others did not. The email was based all in fact. Facts after thousands of hours of research by citizens, discussions with legislators, legislative attorneys, as well as the heads of the very departments that oversee the industry for the state. Years, more than two, to be exact, worth of information. Town Manager Miller also courteously emailed me. Quote, the recommended commercial detox facility ordinance from P&Z was intended to be added to the council retreat agenda, so that the council would have more time to ask detailed questions about Page 15 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 16 of 71 FEBRUARY 7. 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES the regulations prior to the ordinance coming back to the council for action. The council retreat has had similar P&Z topics before, so it's not out of the norm, unquote. Well, I don't find that to be true because I researched it back into the previous administration and delays of two months to get to the council retreat didn't seem to appear anywhere. So I would remind everybody that the retreat is two months after P&Z acted on this. More importantly, what questions could one possibly have that couldn't be asked in this forum immediately following the P&Z recommendation? Better yet, four of you have been sitting on this dais since the beginning of this issue. Why don't you know as much as the citizens and our P&Z right now? Why haven't you been doing your homework on such an important issue as it relates to the very soul of this town? I'm willing to wager that an overwhelming majority of town residents, while not wanting this use at all in town, at the very least expect the people they elect to protect them from some of the worst outcomes of this use in Fountain Hills. And to do it in a timely fashion, not years later. At its core, this is a land use issue and nothing more. The fact that three councilmembers choose not to acknowledge my email at all shows a disrespect for the voices of not just me, but a large segment of Fountain Hills residents and the town's own P&Z commissioners who stated at their meeting that they'd like to not see any more delays. So I'd like to see this on the agenda. I would thank you for your attention to this matter. MENDENHALL: Next is Crystal Cavanaugh. CAVANAUGH: Good evening. Commercial detox was a topic at the Town Council Retreat in February 2021. Like was stated, on January 9th, 2023, our Planning and Zoning Commission passed well -researched recommendations with regards to land usage in a commercial detox ordinance. Why is it that it was not put on the very next council agenda on January l7th? And why isn't it on tonight for an up and down [sic] vote? There is no benefit to the citizens and businesses to keep this vote from taking place as soon as possible. Page 16 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 17 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Some do want to delay it until the retreat. For what possible purpose, as Larry asked? More discussion? How has this not been thoroughly discussed over the past two years by commissions and councils and staff and the public? Everyone on this dais should he well -versed on this topic by now and be fully aware of the current P&Z recommendations. It should also be noted that while the public can attend the retreat, there is no public comment during that meeting. I'm requesting that the detox ordinance be on the next council agenda on February 2lst and passed exactly as submitted by the Planning and Zoning. It's very important that the town have this ordinance in our code, in order to be prepared when such a detox application is submitted. And another concern is that the Town Manager and the Mayor chose to use discretionary spending of almost $10,000 to hire a facilitator from the Social Prosperity Group for the upcoming council retreat. Who was looking out for the town when that contract was written? That facilitator who believes in such things as reparations for the sins of America is being paid $9,750, whether he ends up participating or not. After reviewing the contract, there is nothing about a cancellation clause or partial payment criteria to be found. He gets paid the full amount either way, if he's there or if he isn't. Pretty sweet deal for him. And approval from the rest of the council wasn't even needed. Was our Town Attomcy even involved when this deal was made by our Town Manager and Mayor Dickey? Why was a facilitator needed at all for this retreat? And who will be held accountable for this waste of money? Because at the last meeting, the council majority voted to exclude approval of $30,000 for storage until further options could be investigated, and yet they were thrown under the bus inappropriately as being against wheelchairs. The $10,000 being paid to the unneeded facilitator and his courageous conversations could've been put towards the storage budget and then only $20,000 more would be needed. And why is the town even in the business of storing and loaning out medical equipment anyway? It seems that this might be a better project for a local service club or Page 17 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 18 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES charity organization. Thank you for your attention. MENDENHALL- Next, we have Liz Gildersleeve. GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening, all. I remember getting Mayor Dickey's shiny campaign postcards in the mail last summer with slogans like residents first and preserve smalltown character. Yet here we are, waiting for the commercial detox ordinance, as mentioned passed by the Planning and Zoning Commission on January 9th, to be placed on the Town Council agenda by Mayor Dickey and Town Manager Grady Miller. It should absolutely have been placed on tonight's agenda. Was leaving it off intentional? Or yet another oversight? Neither reason is a good reflection of the Mayor's and the Town Manager's leadership. Because residents haven't been speaking out about their concerns about the proliferation of sober homes and detox facilities in our small community for the last two years, you still don't understand the urgency? There are rumors that a detox facility might go into Four Peaks. Another rumor floating around is the possibility of a second detox facility off Shea, near the neighborhoods behind Target and that property deal just closed. The strong ordinance passed by the Planning and Zoning Commission on January 9th would finally put restrictions and safeguards in place and make our community less vulnerable to unintended consequences. Once again, the Mayor has not put residents first. Lastly, and completely off -topic, I want to thank Councilmember Skillicorn for taking the time at the last council meeting to shake the hands of the Stellar Students. Not sure why some of the liberal ladies in our community were so offended by this gesture and the audacity of Mr. Skillicorn in joining the photo. Can't everyone collectively celebrate our exceptional students? It was a bright spot and I hope it continues. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: I think I can respond, Aaron, a little bit to some of this. The detox idea of the zoning did come up in retreat a couple years ago and what we did was get a lot of very panicked people who didn't want us to talk about it anymore Page 18 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 19 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES because they felt that this was sort of an invitation, rather than a way of preempting or at least putting some zoning in that would, you know, make it so that we had a place for them to go and that it was limited somewhat, which 1 believe is what well come to. The idea of like delaying this is like -- it's not a thing. Nobody gave anything to either one of us, told us to put it on an agenda. It's just the process that we were going through. If you don't want us to do that, we can put it on the next agenda. This is -- and the idea of proliferation of sober living homes -- there were four sober living homes when I became mayor. There are four sober living homes right now. It has never changed. That was never a thing, either. So 1 just want to set that record straight and we can move on. Any other cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor. We have more. Dianne Price? PRICE: I'm Dianne Price. 1 have -- and I left my notes right there. I've been a resident of Fountain Hills for -- and I want to thank you all for all the hard work that you do to keep the Fountain Hills star shining. I'm going to take this opportunity to provide you with some information and I do this because this is the town and the people that I am very proud of. On February 1st, the Arizona Republic published a story with this headline: Fountain Hills' new conservative ideology tilts against local pragmatism. And as Warren Buffett said, it takes 20 years to build a reputation and it takes 5 minutes to ruin it. The Arizona Republic has a circulation of 130,000 print papers. It has an average of 11.4 million web visits a month. It has 430,000 followers on Twitter and say what you will about it being a left -leaning source, it did endorse George Bush and John McCain for the presidency. The article attracted seven pages of comments and I'm going to read some of those comments. These are not my words. These are the words of the people that commented. The first one is from a Charlene D. (ph.) and she said, this new ROT group is doubling down on their rhetoric, making the town less and less of a desirable place to Page 19 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 20 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES live. Property values will be affected when the street in front of your home crumbles and the parks fall into disrepair. The old, white, scared, angry, greedy, conservative voters of Fountain Hills have only themselves to blame. W.J. (ph.) wrote, it sounds like ROT is a fitting acronym for that pack. Michael P. (ph.) wrote, when you invite the devil into your house, don't be surprised when he makes a mess of things. Patrick M. (ph.) wrote, they are making some ridiculous decisions. Voters out there will come to regret their choices to elect people that wanted to fight culture wars instead of taking care of their town. Carla A. (ph.) wrote, a town that is too far right for even Joe Arpaio is absolutely frightening. Michael P. (ph.) wrote, one thing ideology can't change is math. The numbers speak for themselves, no matter how many rants are wrapped up around them. Good luck with your roads, Fountain Hills. Gregory R. (ph.) wrote, what a way to send your town on the road to ruin. Good luck maintaining your property values once you destroy the area with unkempt roads and signs everywhere. Paul S. (ph.) wrote, if Fountain Hills wants to vote to destroy itself, I ain't going to stand in the way. Maryann S. (ph.) wrote, wow, what a sad state of affairs in beautiful Fountain Hills. Sure glad I decided not to live there when I moved here. That's it. I hope you pay attention to what people are saying outside of us. Also know that the Arizona Republic is part of the USA Today network and when I visiting Des Moines last week, this article appeared in Des Moines, Iowa, also. MENDENHALL. Our next speaker is Amy Stokes. STOKES: Good evening. I am here to request oversight of the Building Department. I moved here in -- or bought a house here in March. I finally moved into my house after remodeling it in late December and the house next door to me has been under construction since I bought my house. And there have been -- 1 and multiple neighbors have inquired multiple times about the house next door and the apparent lack of oversight Page 20 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 21 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES there. Lately, the biggest issue for me as a homeowner is they have been piling debris on my property. And I have submitted requests to the -- you know, the online submittal form asking for it to be removed. I sent a complaint on the 26th of December, another one, I think, January 4th. And Jeff, the inspector, finally came out on January 6th and asked for the hay bales and cinder blocks to be removed. Not all of it was removed. There's still a big pile of sand about three feet in diameter from whenever they built their concrete wall. And I asked -- so that afternoon, I asked for that to be, you know, picked up. Another visit, to be able to come out and say hey, you didn't finish. And then they never did come back. I think I sent another complaint on January 16th, saying, you know, no one's come by. And then they piled another pile of hay bales and more cinder blocks on the corner of my property because evidently there's no oversight. And so 1 sent another complaint saying, please come. Evidently, you're not listening, you're not actually responding to these. And then on Saturday -- it had been a month since my original complaint -- 1 moved the hay bales and tried to get some of the hay bale off -- or sand off the corner of my property. The hale bales are in such -- like, they're rotting, so like when I moved them, they collapsed onto the street. The contractor saw me doing this, just watched me doing it. And the hay bales are still on the street because he hasn't gone to pick them up. And so I just really don't understand why we have an ordinance that says construction debris should be contained on your property, if we have a Building Department who doesn't actually oversee that. So I'm hoping that you can actually inquire with the people we are employing to see why they're not doing their job. MILLER: Yes, Ms. Stokes, I appreciate you reporting this issue. Mr. Wesley, who is our Development Services director, I will be talking to him first thing in the morning about this. I've taken down your information. STOKES: Okay. MILLER: Did you also put down a phone number on your Call to the Public? Is that Page 21 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 22 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES on -- STOKES: I did. MILLER: So I can follow up with you? MENDENHALL: Yes. STOKES: Yes. MILLER: Thank you for reporting this. And I'm sorry you've had to go through this period of time. STOKES: Thank you. MILLER: Thank you. MENDENHALL: And the last one is Gene Slechta. SLECHTA: Thank you, Mayor, council. My name's Gene Slechta. I live here in town. Roads, roads, roads. Our roads are falling apart. They're failing. We have a $100,000,000 problem and roads needs to be on every council agenda. I don't understand that. 1 attended a Budget Open House last night, which was very eye-opening. I enjoyed that. And not surprisingly, roads was a focal point. It suggested the severity of the problem, but leaves the resolution to the council, where it belongs. The Streets Committee was mentioned. The last time the citizens were provided an update on roads from the Streets Committee was October 18th. I watched the video. Every one of our 25,000 citizens should watch it. And roads needs to be on every council agenda. But I'm here to suggest that more urgency is needed. More ideas are needed. We need less focus on invocations, $20,000 lobbyists, or TikTok. In that October 18th presentation, we were told that 25 to 33 percent of our roads are failing, F. That means that those roads need to be rebuilt, not repaired. Roads have about a 30-year life. Most of our roads are over 40 years. We have 160 miles of road, so that means 40 to 53 miles of roads need to be rebuilt. Saguaro's four miles of rebuilt was $8,000,000. Simple math says that those failed roads today would cost between $80,000,000 and $100,000,000 to rebuild. But more bad news, the Streets Committee member told the council that the budgeted $2,500,000 annual amount spent on maintenance is woefully insufficient, so the cost will Page 22 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 23 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES escalate by millions every year. So we need lots of money that we don't have. We need more ideas, however. We need to start thinking outside the box or admit we need new revenue sources. The $8,000,000 CARES money is a down payment, not the silver bullet. Stop nibbling around the edge. And roads need to be on every council agenda. Here's an outside the box story for you. A decade ago, we had five trash haulers to choose from. That meant we had five trash trucks rolling down the streets instead of one. But a trash truck weighs as much as 15 to 20 times that of an automobile. Federal and other studies by road experts have calculated a single trash truck has an exponential impact on roads. That's equivalent of 2,000 cars. Our town staff calculated savings of millions of dollars in road repairs if we went to a single hauler. We realize those savings every day today. The council voted at that time four to three in favor of a single hauler. We had four heroes that day under great pressure, Mayor Schlum, Dennis Brown, Henry Leger, and Ginny Dickey were those heroes. Thank you. MENDENHALL• That's it for public comment. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Linda. Our next item is our consent agenda. Does anybody want to take anything off or have a motion? GRZYBOWSKI: Move to approve. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. SKILLICORN: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. ALL: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: It's unanimous. Our regular agenda item. Our first item is guidance and direction to staff on possible parameters for temporary sign regulations. We'll hear from John and then well see if we have any speaker cards. Page 23 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 24 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES WESLEY: Good evening -- excuse me. Good evening, Mayor and council. I've got a presentation to step through here this evening that I hope will help focus the discussion on learning what it is the council would like to see and I take this forward for modification after what we've had previously in the sign ordinance. So just a little bit of quick background. A couple of weeks ago, the council voted to repeal a couple sections of the sign ordinance and so to move forward with a new ordinance that would have the changes that the council feels is necessary, we'll need to go through a public hearing process, get a recommendation from the Planning and Zoning Commission. And so tonight I'm looking for again the basic direction from the council for what you would like to see, so we can focus those discussions going forward on what you think the concerns are. New regulations must be content neutral. We can regulate sign types, material, zoning, size and height, number, location, time, those kinds of placement or items. So with that, what are temporary signs? Typically, they are a material that's subject to deterioration. They are not typically permanently attached to the ground, the building or structure, and generally they're intended to serve a short-term purpose. Here are some of the sign types that are possible for consideration in the ordinance. Some of these are already in our ordinance or had been in the ordinance. Others haven't been. These are the types of things then when we talk about our sign regulations we focus on the types of signs, nothing about the message that's conveyed, but the form that they take. So again, one of the things we can talk about is the material the temporary signs would be made of. These are some things -- the first ones that are in the definition section. So they're still in the ordinance because they're in Section 601, but again as we talk about temporary signs it's possible we may see some need to amend some of this language in terms of the definition and what types of materials they're made of. And then we also had in Section 607 a statement about the durable materials and being properly maintained. When we look at the key provisions that go into making up a sign ordinance, I think it might be helpful to look at it in terms of a table along this line that lists the types Page 24 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 15 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES and then do we want them or not, and if so under what conditions. And so here, using what was in the code that was repealed and the sign types that were listed, is a summary. Again, this is not all the detail language that goes with each one, but it's the basic parameters that I think are key to then writing the rest of the code. So what I'd to do, what I think a way to focus the discussion this evening, Mayor, would be to go through each of these and for the council to give me some feedback on each type. And we can try it here with the first one, see if it works like I hope it does. But with A -frame signs, they were allowed previously. Do we want to continue allowing A - frame signs? Yes? I see some yesses. They were allowed in commercial and industrial zoning districts, but not in residential districts. Is that appropriate? I'm seeing some yesses. The maximum size allowed, six square feet, three feet tall, which is a fairly typical size for those types of signs. We allowed one per business. KALIVIANAKIS: I would request that go to two per business. WESLEY: Okay. We can look at that. Location? SKILLICORN: Mayor? I think we have a specific proposal. But you know some of the details of it, too, WESLEY: Yeah. Yeah. I'm looking for direction, you know, from the council as a whole here, so you know, if there are any ideas to, you know, bring them up so we can discuss them and I can see, you know, again, if I'm getting direction from the council. MAYOR DICKEY: What's the idea of to -- if someone's on the corner or if it's hard to see in one place? SKILLICORN: Mayor, so I think the specific -- what we had discussed was similar maximum size, but if you have two there would be like a maximum size. So effectively, if you have two, you can't have two of the big ones. It'd be two of like the stepdown size, basically. You know, just opportunities for businesses to have exposure, but not have signs everywhere and then not have big signs everywhere, also. Page25 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 16 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, so if our size height is six/three, you're saying that it's divided by two, so that they can have two signs? I'm sorry, I was unable to follow. SKILLICORN: So I believe we discussed, but I'd have to check notes of the -- GRZYBOWSKI: Who is we? SKILLICORN: John, myself, and then we also had a meeting with Councilman Friedel. And this should be directed to the Mayor and councilwoman. So I think the specific were thinking about is if it was two, it was eight feet versus six if it was a single. So they could do two smaller signs, or the one bigger sign. Is that helpful? WESLEY: Councilmember, if I may? My summary or recollection of that is there'd be a sign allowance, a total of eight square feet or whatever we come up with, and then you'd have one eight foot, or a six and a two, or a four and four, or whatever, as long as you didn't go over the maximum allowed. SKILLICORN: I think what -- because we were writing down some details and I think the idea of one it's six, but if two to eight, something like that. GRZYBOWSKI: I'm sorry, you don't have your notes with you from a conversation that you've had about something that the entire council is going to vote on? Is that what I understand? SKILLICORN: I don't believe were -- I believe were giving direction to John this evening. And we have quite a bit of -- we've done quite a bit of research and we have a pretty specific game plan that were going to be presenting to John. GRZYBOWSKI: I thought that's what we were doing right now, was being specific and giving John a specific game plan. Did I miss out on something? SKILLICORN: No, I don't think you missed out on anything at all. KALIVIANAKIS: I guess the reason I would like to go to two A -frame signs is, for example, like down by Euro Pizza Cafe, they've got an entrance in the front and then they have an entrance in the lake, in the back. There's a gentleman down there that owns a yogurt store. He has put all of his life savings into that store. He works a fulltime job. He works there on Saturday and Sunday. He is trying to make a living here in Fountain Page 26 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 27 of71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Hills with that yogurt shop. Him not having a sign in the front of his business and then in the rear of the business by the lake is hurting his business. And when he puts his signs up there, a compliance officer is going to tell him he's got to take them down. That's why I'd like to have two signs, two A -frame signs. I'll just put a little meat on the bones. MAYOR DICKEY: Can 1 ask a question, John? So are we talking about on their own property, correct? WESLEY: Oh, for the most part yes, Mayor. We'll get into some of the situations where they're allowed off the road. MAYOR DICKEY: So this isn't the right of way stuff? Okay. So would you entertain the idea that this is only something like -- it's confined in certain areas? Like, when we first did the first sign ordinance, we figured out some ways to compromise and to make things okay in the downtown area, that kind of thing. I mean, are you seeing a more widespread issue or is it more, you know, because that specifically -- that makes sense? KALIVIANAKIS: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: And that's sort of what we did with Park Place, because we knew they really didn't have any right of way. So we said okay -- or they didn't have any property, so they said okay, you can put it on the sidewalk. So is there any wiggle room with this not being just across the board, everybody can have two A -frames eight feet? I mean, do you see that -- an area where this is more of an issue than another? TOTH: Sony, Madam Mayor, if you wouldn't mind clarifying? I'm confused -- the reasoning behind -- I mean, same question, but why would we limit them to one? Does it hurt to allow everybody to have two? I don't see a reasoning to make that only downtown specific. What if somebody in the northern area of town has two entrances and wants two A -frames? 1 don't see a reason why to specify that and what the huge difference between one and two would be there. MAYOR DICKEY: I think, obviously, we went through the sign ordinance in a way to try to balance between allowing, you know, business -friendly, that whole phrase and aesthetics and sidewalks and safety and all of that stuff. So that's where we landed and unanimously voted and so I think that I would want to have one sign because I think two Page 27 of71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 28 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES signs in front of every single business is probably a lot. So I'm just asking if you've considered that this might be something that is more prone to work in one area over another. You know, it's up to you, obviously. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, I would be in agreement with that, if the businessowner can show a compelling reason why they would need two signs. That could either be written in the code or the zoning officers could be advised that in cases like my friend at the yogurt shop. I don't know how -- you'd be the one that would write the ordinance. It might be kind of difficult. But that's the kind of thing I think we have to make allowance for. Because there's a number of businesses in our town that are on the lake that do have front and rear egress and access. FRIEDEL. We -- MAYOR DICKEY: Councilmember. FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. We also have a couple businesses along Parkview that are on a blind corner that also need a couple of signs. So if we can make allowance for those exceptions, I would be good with that as well. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I think, John, it comes down to whether -- I mean, do they get permits for these? They don't, do they? WESLEY: Oh, Mayor, the current code, where we did make the allowance for them to be in the right of way in the town center area -- MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. WESLEY: -- it was that -- for those to go in the right of way, they would get permits. MAYOR DICKEY: Is the Parkview area -- okay. WESLEY: But the ones that stay on their private property don't require a permit. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Is the Parkview area considered that whole downtown area, too? WESLEY: So yes, I'd have to look back at that to be sure. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we might -- WESLEY: I think we did both sides of the Avenue, yes. Page 28 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 29 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 1023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Could we have a provision just in general of people appealing anything? So say we said, okay, let's have two in the downtown area, even though there probably will be places that might be a little bit crowded. But say we could do that, and then if there's a business someplace else that has two entrances or is on a corner or has one of these things, that they could, you know, appeal for lack of a better word. Could that be put in here in general? WESLEY: Mayor, I'll say anything's possible. We've just got to come up with the right language for it and certainly willing to take a look at a variety of things. A comparison might be for permanent signage in the plat 208 area; because they have the front and the back, there's allowance for both sides for permanent signage. So we could look for a similar thing on the temporary signs and the A -frames. And again, I think -- MAYOR DICKEY: Well, that makes sense. I'm not -- WESLEY: -- there's some things about lot size we have to -- MAYOR DICKEY: I don't want to make things really hard on you. I mean, if something like that exists, but if not then maybe stores that are kind of small or concentrated wouldn't have two anyway because they'd be right next to each other. WESLEY: Okay. Anyway, we'd be glad to look along that line, see what we can kind up with. And then the last one along that line is the location. So this gets a little bit to one of your things you brought up, Mayor. So on lot is where they're typically required to be, except there was a provision in the town center for them to go on the right of way because there's some places that just don't have anything but in the right of way. And then also the weekend directional signs could be in the right of way. So that was an exception. MCMAHON: Could you please repeat that? I'm sorry. WESLEY: So for the A -frame signs -- MCMAHON: Yeah. WESLEY: -- they're required to be on lot, but the code allowed two exceptions. One was in the town center pedestrian area, where some businesses don't have any private property -- MCMAHON: Correct. Page 19 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 30 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES WESLEY: -- to put the sign on, so there they could go on the right of way. And the other is the weekend directionals, the open house, the garage sales. MCMAHON: Okay. WESLEY: Those could go on the right of way. MCMAHON: But those were limited. They weren't (indiscernible) the road. WESLEY: Right. On time. Yes. MCMAHON: I'm fine with keeping that. KALIVIANAKIS: If I could address the council and then Mr. Wesley? Before we had this meeting tonight, I was a little concerned. If we're going to go through the sign ordinance -- temporary sign ordinance line by line like we're doing right now, I anticipate that well all be having breakfast at Denny's tomorrow morning, because it's going to go on all night long. I would like to make a motion to move to postpone consideration of this temporary sign ordinance and possible direction of the sign ordinance until the Town Council Retreat on February 28th. At that time, well have a chance that we can meet with you individually to go over this and give you our concerns. And based on that, you can draft an ordinance. We can discuss it at the February retreat. At that point, it'll be put back on the agenda to go either to Planning and Zoning, or to Town Council, so we can have a public debate and have the people that see the end result and not how the sausage is being made tonight. So that's the motion I'd like to put on the table. TOTH: I'd like to second that motion and if I could, add a comment real quick. I'm not changing the motion, just providing my reason. I think that dealing with it all in one might be a little bit easier on the public. So I'd like to second that motion. I believe we do need to wait until we've heard speaker cards. Is that correct, Linda? MENDENHALL: We really only have one written comment. We have no speaker cards. MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, so we have it here already in front of us. MENDENHALL: Um -hum. Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. Page 30 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 31 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MENDENHALL: It's Liz Gildersleeve. SKILLICORN: Mayor, may I? MAYOR DICKEY: You know what? I don't think we're -- were not allowed to debate a motion to table, are we? KALIVIANAKIS: It's not to -- SKILLICORN: Can I ask for an amendment? KALIVIANAKIS: -- it's not a motion to table. It's a motion to postpone. MAYOR DICKEY: You said table, yeah. KALIVIANAKIS: It's Robert's Rules of Order. MAYOR DICKEY: 1 think you said table, though. KALIVIANAKIS: No, I didn't. I specifically -- I have it written down right here. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. TOTH: Yeah, I think it might have been me that said that, so -- my bad. KALIVIANAKIS: Oh, Hannah might've said it on the second. But on the first, I have this written down. I also have the provisions in Robert's Rules. The council doesn't make this -- SKILLICORN: Could we consider this as -- for a brief amendment'? 1 would still like public notice for -- is it March 7th, P&Z? WESLEY: 13th. SKILLICORN: 13th. I still would love to include that in the motion. You know, if we have something ready to submit, I'd like to be able to, you know, be able to submit it on time. MAYOR DICKEY: I think I need help. Aaron, so if we had a motion to postpone, are -- we can amend that? Or not? ARNSON: I don't believe that motions to postpone are amendable. I think that it's probably fair to say that we wouldn't change the date of the public hearing. It's already been published. SKILLICORN: Okay. ARNSON: So -- WESLEY: It hadn't been published yet. It's due next week. ARNSON: Oh, due next week. Page 31 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 32 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES WESLEY: (Indiscernible) the anticipation, I'll draft it and get it ready for publishing. ARNSON: Okay. Thanks, John. MAYOR DICKEY: I still don't know if we can debate a motion to postpone. ARNSON: Well, I mean, maybe -- I'm not 100 percent sure, either, whether a motion to table versus a motion to postpone is debatable or whatever. SKILLICORN: Yeah. ARNSON: But maybe the -- maybe 1 can at least provide a little bit of direction. If you can't debate it, maybe 1 can at least provide a little bit of direction. I think the biggest concerns -- and John you can piggyback on this if you wish -- if the council wishes to postpone, that's fully within the council's purview to do so. You can go ahead and vote on that and we can postpone that to the retreat. The conversation's clearly going to have to happen at some time or another, and with respect to the turnaround between -- I just don't know John's capacity for -- I'm sure he's very capable. I just don't know in terms of timing between getting direction, which we may or not receive, between February 28th -- or at the February 28th meeting and time to implement those provisions for consideration at Planning and Zoning. So keep that in mind as you vote on a motion to postpone. MAYOR DICKEY: I think that you obviously have specific items that you've already looked at, so if you want to bring them to the 21 st meeting, our council meeting, with the specifics of what you want to do and then he'll have them and then we can discuss them on the 2l st. Because the retreat, we can't take any action. So -- KALIVIANAKIS: Right. That's -- excuse me. That's why 1 wanted to -- after the retreat to take it back to Town Council where we can take action and it will he properly noticed. MAYOR DICKEY: I was just thinking that since you have specific things in mind, if you want to get it all together by the 21st, we can actually vote on it. And make the changes there and vote on it. You know, if that's amenable to you. I mean, I'm fine leaving the sign ordinance exactly the way it is, so -- KALIVIANAKIS: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: -- you know how I'm going to say on all this stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. KALIVIANAKIS: Right. Page 32 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 33 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: So -- but since you have items that you've already looked at, I think if we had those in front of us, like you obviously just had the eight foot and all that, bring that back to the next meeting. And well go through it and decide what we want to adopt and then we would be ready for the Planning and Zoning and then he'd have plenty of time -- GRZYBOWSKI: If I may, Mayor? MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, ma'am. GRZYBOWSKI: I kind of wish you guys had brought notes tonight. Please bring them next time because if you had a meeting and you have notes that you would like us to review, I know my memory's not as good as it used to, so please bring your notes so we can refer to your notes and actually discuss what it is you want to do, instead of what you think you wanted to do. I would truly appreciate that. KALIVIANAKIS: Actually-- FRIEDEL. Councilmember, we did suggest that, just so you're aware of that. That was suggested previously to this meeting today. GRZYBOWSKI: And it didn't happen. FRIEDEL: It didn't happen. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, I made the request myself I sent the letter to Grady and to Mr. Wesley. I wanted to go through the notes in advance of today's meeting and they suggested that was not a good idea. Actually, I did call Mayor Dickey today. We were too busy to coordinate our conversations. We could've avoided this conversation tonight. I still think that we -- this is something that needs a thorough discussion and I do want the public to be a part of that discussion. That's why 1 thought maybe with the retreat -- I know it's not actionable -- MAYOR DICKEY: Weil, they can't -- KALIVIANAKIS: -- but they can talk. But that's why if we brought it back to council, they would have kind of the rough draft of what were looking at and then they could have input on what they like, what they don't like. And I think that's pretty responsible. MAYOR DICKEY: Grady? MILLER: Well, Ijust want to be clear. We heard about this at 7:30 last night, your Page33of71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 34 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES request, and I got back to you today. But this had already been on the agenda and already been, you know, noticed for tonight. I think if that's what the council wants to do, we'll do what the council wants to do here, if the majority want to have this at the retreat. But I do want to point out something that Mr. Wesley said, is that he has his plan to go before Planning and Zoning on March 13th. So I heard you, Councilmember Kalivianakis, that you're thinking of the retreat and then having one more meeting before the council to take action on what you guys talk about at the retreat on the sign ordinance. So the only concern is timing -wise, that's just -- it's not going to square up with the March 13th P&Z meeting. KALIVIANAKIS: I would certainly be amenable to having it go from the retreat to P&Z, back to council. MILLER: Even if it delays the Planning and Zoning, so it doesn't -- because March -- they only meet once, correct? For -- WESLEY: Once a month is their typical meeting times, yes. MILLER: Okay. KALIVIANAKIS: So we could bump it from the retreat to Planning and Zoning and back to the council? That sounds like a good plan to me. MILLER: Okay. I just -- when you emai led me earlier -- KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. MILLER: -- I wasn't aware of one more time to come before council for action. Otherwise, I would've given you some suggestions on -- KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, because I -- yeah, just for the public to be involved in the process. That's why I wanted to do that. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. TOTH: Could I just quickly clarify? Are we saying that Brenda -- Brenda, if you wouldn't mind giving me a nod if I'm interpreting you correctly? And I said that through the Mayor, sorry. The meeting, our retreat, you want to discuss it. Our direction to town staff is to bring that straight to P&Z, so that it's on the March 13th agenda. And then after they've made their recommendation, then we see it again, correct? Page 34 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 35 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES KALIVIANAKIS: That's correct. TOTH: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we're going to vote on postponing until the retreat, correct? KALIVIANAKIS: That's correct. That's what's on the floor. MAYOR DICKEY: Not to another meeting. I'm trying to avoid the retreat because it's going to be really long. But okay. So all those in favor of postponing until the retreat, please say aye. ALL: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? It passes. Thank you. All right. Our next item is for the administrative policy for invocations at Town Council meetings. Do we have speaker cards on this item? MENDENHALL- We do not, Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So let's see. Would this be Grady or Aaron, or -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. MAYOR DICKEY: -- for the invocation? ARNSON: Unless Grady wants to lead out, I'm happy to take this, Mayor. Mayor and council, you'll recall that at the January 3rd, 2023 regular meeting, the council voted to reinstate or to resume the invocations at regular council meetings. We've done so the last two times. Part of the discussion that we had during that meeting and during the previous meeting of January 17th was bringing back a policy to ensure that we have a process for fairly and appropriately scheduling and selecting individuals to offer the invocation. We had this item on the last January 17th agenda and it was tabled until tonight. It's back for your discussion this evening. I will make the council aware that we have a proposed policy in the packet. It's the same packet as last time. The only change that would necessarily need to be made would be the date at the top. Page 35 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 36 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES We have also received information, 1 believe they're available for you on the dais here, of two alternative policies from a couple of councilmembers that contain some similar language with some differences. So those are for your consideration as well. I will head off some of the discussion by saying that I have looked at all of the proposed policies and with respect to different processes for having the Manager's office or his designee handle it, et cetera, I'm fine with whatever process the council wants to put in place. I believe they comport with constitutional standards. It's ultimately going to be up to the council's discussion what you want to do. So we're recommending adoption of one of these policies, or some combination of one of these policies tonight. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. SKILLICORN: I see the couple different policies here. I would like to make a motion to approve the one that is -- it says adopted February 7th. Does everyone see that one? MAYOR DICKEY: January 17? SKILLICORN: No, I see adopted February 7, 2023. GRZYBOWSKI: I would like to have discussion before we vote, please. SKILLICORN: I think we should give people a moment to look over both, yes. GRZYBOWSKI: Also, I'd like to hear any public comment as well. MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. KALIVIANAKIS: Just a point of inquiry. The one on the top that says adopted February 7th, 2023, that was a draft that 1 had written and in collaboration with our Town Attorney. MCMAHON : It's not adopted. KALIVIANAKIS: Well, no. It would be if we voted it in today. And on January l7th, it said adopted January 17th. So it's exactly what our Town Attorney did on the last proposed draft. I literally took this from the Town Attorney's draft. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, I was looking at the old one. KALIVIANAKIS: No. It would -- because it would -- because that's exactly how Aaron wrote it last week. Because if we voted on it tonight and we adopted it, it would be adopted February 7th, 2023. Page 36 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 37 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES GRZYBOWSKI: It was how Aaron wrote his last meeting as well. I can confirm that. KALIVIANAKIS: Right. MCMAHON: I understand that, but -- I understand that, but this is changes to what he adopted. It's not what is adopted, or was adopted. That's my understanding, right? KALIVIANAKIS: Well, Aaron's wasn't adopted, either. ARNSON: Yeah. Mayor and council, I agree. MCMAHON: I'm trying to understand it. ARNSON: There was nothing -- nothing was adopted at the last council meeting. MCMAHON: Right. Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: Now -- and who wrote the second one, may I inquire? ARNSON: I'm sorry. KALIVIANAKIS: There's a second draft from -- that somebody else wrote. ARNSON: Oh. I don't want to speak for her, but I believe that Councilmember McMahon was the one who (indiscernible) to that. MCMAHON: Yes, I -- may I speak, please? MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. MCMAHON: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: You're welcome. MCMAHON: 1 read Aaron's proposed general terms or terms for presentation of invocations. And I think that in looking at both Brenda and mine, I think it covers basically all of it with a few exceptions. I would like clarification in saying voluntary participation, no one will be required to stand and/or participate in any invocation. I would like the time limitation that we previously discussed to be put in it, an invocation shall be limited to one minute. And I think that the respect for diversity, I think that Aaron has that stated a little bit more concisely than what I put on it. But it's basically saying that we can't discriminate and it's diverse. You know, it has to be diverse. And also that, you know, it's a first come, first served basis. The council can't call. It's up to the person interested, is my understanding, to call and then that the Town Manager and/or his designee is going to keep a list and then have the people speak on the Page 37 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 38 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES dates acknowledged. Correct? ARNSON: Mayor and councilmember, sort of. So that's -- I think we're halfway there with that comment. MCMAHON: Okay. ARNSON: Yeah. So with respect to the way that at least the town's policy was proposed, the one that's in the packet, and then the February 7th policy that -- Brenda's policy -- was proposed, the council consistent with our prior practice -- excuse me, the Town Manager's office or his designee, consistent with our prior practice, was responsible for contacting individuals to give the invocation. My suggestion is going to be that to the extent there's an individual who calls and there's a vacancy, you know -- otherwise, how else would you get people who aren't affiliated with any faith group, right? If they have a substantial connection to Fountain Hills themselves, how would they be contacted ever by the Town Manager's office? So I think as long as we make for that provision, that process of the Manager's office being responsible for proactively scheduling is constitutionally permissible. It has been found to be permissible in other cases. If the council wanted to go in the direction of doing an exclusively individuals signing up, that's an option for the council to consider, too. But I'm comfortable with the Manager's office proactively soliciting invocations. MCMAHON: Okay. ARNSON: Did that answer the question'? MCMAHON: Yes, thank you. Also, this is going to occur once a year, right? MAYOR DICKEY: Um -hum. MCMAHON: So we're going to say, once a year the Town Manager and/or his designee will keep a schedule of meeting dates for the following year on which the individuals can request an available date. And the database, this shall include known religious leaders and individuals who have requested to speak and with a reasonable connection to Fountain Hills. ARNSON: So my only comment to what you said, Mayor and councilwoman, my only correction or clarification to that would be that in the policy that's in the packet and in the Page 38 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 39 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES policy that Councilwoman Kalivianakis has put forward, there isn't any requirement that it be filled for an entire year. It's up to the Town Manager's -- MCMAHON: Okay. ARNSON: -- discretion as to how far in advance he fills that calendar. MCMAHON: Okay. All right. But it's going to be once a year that they take names and stuff or -- I mean, as far as start the list. Because if it's not completely full, then we're going to have a moment of silence. ARNSON: Well, if there's no one available to give the invocation -- MCMAHON: Right. Okay. ARNSON: -- we would have a moment of silence. MCMAHON: All right. So that needs to be in there, that if it isn't completely full, then if there's not going to be an invocation it's going to be a moment of silence or nothing at all, I guess. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, I think that's assumed by implication. MAYOR DICKEY: Sometimes people don't come. KALIVIANAKIS: Right. MCMAHON: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Are you okay with the minute part? MCMAHON: Yes. I'd like it to be a minute and I think that voluntary participation is really important. And I noticed in the other one that we received there's some discussion or some -- saying substantial connection to the town. Well, given what is written, I don't really think that substantial connection is going to be able to work because in what's said here, you're saying that they have to live here a year and have other requirements in order to be considered or to have an invocation. The majority or a lot of our residents don't live here a full year. They live here three months or six months or whatever. I don't think that -- I think that if there's a year requirement, meaning substantial, that that is -- you're going to alienate a lot of people and prevent people from being able to put their name in to have an invocation. And how do you enforce? How do you know they've been here a year? And in addition, there was another comment. Let me see if I can read it. That the Page 39 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 40 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES council -- let me find it -- that the council select as a default. But the council cannot make a selection. We have to be completely independent of selecting for the invocation and that's why it's going to be designated to the Town Manager and/or his designee. KALIVIANAKIS: I don't believe there's any recommendation by the Town Council to select anything. I don't know what you're reading. MCMAHON: I'm going to look at it. KALIVIANAKIS: It's obviously not my draft. Also, I would like to say that -- to address your first point, it's right in my draft that in the case of a representative or group or church group or congregation where the representative is not a town resident, or has not been a resident for at least one year, a substantial number of town residents must be members of the group or the congregation. And so the one year rule would not apply to somebody that was out of town that had a -- say it was pastor that lived in Scottsdale but had a church following here. As long as the -- a substantial number of town residents belong to that church, the person does not have a residency requirement or the year requirement. That's actually been addressed. MCMAHON: But how can you prove that they're a member of that congregation? What constitutes that? 1 mean, Ijust don't think that's something that is enforceable. KALIVIANAKIS: That would be up to town staff. MCMAHON: I don't think we have the staff to enforce that. And I stand corrected. The reference I was making is an organization may request to be placed on a list to deliver an invocation in a future Town Council meeting. Again, we don't take the requests. We can't take the requests. It has to be through the Town Manager and his designee. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? MCMAHON: So I don't think it's appropriate for someone to stand before the council and make a request when we already have a policy set up for how that's going to be. TOTH: Super quick. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? TOTH: Aaron, is that true? Page 40 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 41 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES ARNSON: So I think what we're talking about, or what I was saying was primarily, the Manager's office will be responsible for scheduling those meetings, right? If there's an opening on our calendar, is someone calls to offer it, then yes, we could entertain that person, assuming that they otherwise meet the requirements under this policy. Does that make sense? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Um -hum. TOTH: Yes. ARNSON: Okay. TOTH: So we would technically take requests, if we have the date open and someone says, I would like to do the invocation. And that way, we can take a request. ARNSON: Otherwise, I'm not sure how you ever reach somebody who's not affiliated with an organization here -- TOTH: Right. ARNSON: -- in town. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. TOTH: So thank you for that. ARNSON: Okay. All right. KALIVIANAKIS: I -- MCMAHON: It was my understanding that the council can't be involved in that. That was something that was stated last time. MAYOR DICKEY: They're not -- ARNSON: Right. And I don't think that that's what's being proposed tonight. I think -- TOTH: Not at all. ARNSON: I think -- MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me. Councilwoman Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Any book club member will tell you that the written word can be interpreted in different ways by different people. Religion, prayer, and the Bible arc no exception. For example, religion has started wars. Religion has caused divorce, family disagreements, and isolation. Our pastors in town don't even get along. Some of the same Fountain Hills residents that said they are in support of the invocation are the same ones that spoke out Page 41 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 42 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES against our sober living homes. Wars, isolation, and hypocrisy. None of that seems to be in line with what I remember from my Sunday school lessons on the life of Jesus. The Jesus that I remember learning about dined with and cared for the vulnerable. He cared for the weak and defenseless. He learned from them that he was open -- and he was openminded to leam from those that didn't follow his teachings. All religions have basically the same foundation, the Golden Rule, a lesson that we learned in kindergarten, treat others as you want to be treated. Allowing all religions to participate in the invocation will remind us of this dogma by bringing the unity with the commonality of our various religions. The First Amendment dictates that we not promote one religion over another. So we're going to get around this by suggesting that they have to have a connection based on a certain time length and a substantial number of residents need to be members? Are we checking their voter registration, an electric bill, a driver's license? Are we asking them to register their religion? These requirements are excessive and make us look like we're only seeking input from certain religions that we deem acceptable. Also, I think we need to add a three -minute invocation time limit, just like the public comment. There was a meeting in 2019, I think, where the pastor gave a sermon rather than a prayer. It lasted about 20 minutes. I think it was in the Community Center, back in 2019. Also, for the record, if we're going to put in a one year time limit, I'm going to tell you I want it on the public record that these religions are represented in Fountain Hills by people that have lived here for over a year. Not only Christians and atheists, but we've got Baha'i, Buddhist, Dudeism, Flying Spaghetti Monster, Hindu, Jehovah's Witness, Jewish, Mormon, Muslim, Native Americans, Satanic Temple, Unitarian, Universal Life Church, and Wiccan. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just to address one of Peggy's concerns, my draft is actually more inclusive because not only does it invite the town to invite members to speak, but it also leaves the Page 42 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 43 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES other people that would like to speak an opportunity to speak. And so it's allowing the public to approach us, like Aaron said. If there's a filling, if there's an opening, this draft would allow them to fill this spot. And so I think it's allowing more people to speak, not less. And I think that's smart. As far as Ms. Grzybowski is concerned, 1 think a three -minute rule would -- I would confer with that and I think that's a good idea. I agree with Sharron. MCMAHON: I thought we already agreed on a one -minute. MAYOR DICKEY: We didn't agree on a number. KALIVIANAKIS: No. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. MCMAHON: That's fine. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Toth? TOTH: Thank you. I would also concur on the three -minute. 1 think it's fair to keep it the same as the public comment. So thank you for that. That would be my one amendment to this. I like your draft, Brenda. Good job. The line that says, the town will not prohibit an organization from offering an invocation based on the content of the invocation or based on affiliation or non -affiliation with any religion or faith group or organization. That puts it -- I mean, we already are aware of the fact that constitutionally we are unable to specify a religion and that was never an intention, but I appreciate that we've solidified that language in this ordinance, which 1 don't believe is included in a lot of -- KALIVIANAKIS: Right. TOTH: -- other municipalities. So that's my comment. Ding-dong, Brenda. Good job. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you very much. Yeah, this would be a novel -- this wasn't taken from another town. This was written by myself. Of course, the boilerplate was all -- what everybody else uses. And so I think that's very important. And just again to go back to Vice Mayor McMahon, her concerns of nondiscrimination 1 think are very good concerns and if you can read -- you can't read, but one of the headings here is policy of nondiscrimination. And so that was actually Page 43 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 44 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES included in my draft. And if that's your concern, that is the new draft policy. MCMAHON: I still have problems with the last paragraph. I don't think there should be a year requirement. I just don't know how we're going to police that. I don't think that -- I think that -- it was my understanding that if people wanted to have an invocation, they can send an email or call in. I didn't think we would have anything to do with that, to avoid violation of the Constitution. I would like to have in there the voluntary participation and it was my understanding that when Hannah and I were talking about it, 1 said a year, she said a year and a half. I mean, a minute and she said a minute and a half. 1 think a minute like we were shown tonight is more than sufficient for an invocation. This is a council meeting. It's not a church. And please don't take offense to that. But I think a minute is more than enough. It was very eloquent tonight. It was very well -said and it was directed to the council, as it's supposed to be. So a minute is sufficient. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? FRIEDEL. Who's going to police that? Are you going to pull your watch out and start kicking people out of here -- MCMAHON: Yeah. It's called red hand. FRIEDEL: -- if they're a minute and ten seconds? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. FRIEDEL: No. I think at least two minutes, but Pm okay with three. MCMAHON: Who's going to police three minutes, then? FRIEDEL. The red lights. You just said so. MCMAHON: Well, it's the same thing with a minute. What -- MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Toth? TOTH: I'm sorry. With the only amendment of creating a three -minute time limit, I would like to -- considering this, move to approve the draft that Brenda Kalivianakis submitted. SKILLICORN: Second. MCMAHON: I don't think we're done discussing it and I -- MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, we have -- now we have -- oh. MENDENHALL: We do have a speaker card left. Page 44 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 45 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MCMAHON: You know, I wasn't done. I'm not done discussing it. I've gotten no response to what I was saying about the fact that a year is required, about what does substantial mean. I mean, how are you going to police people being in a congregation, et cetera? Ijust don't think that's our job and Ijust don't think it's going to work. I mean, I don't think it's realistic. And it wasn't in Aaron's. There's no definition of substantial. I think it's -- GRZYBOWSKI: If I can make the recommendation? If we want a year in there as a council, then we ask the person, how long have you been here? They tell you a year, we trust them. That's what I feel like we need to do. MCMAHON: So if I'm here for six months as a snowbird, I can't give an invocation? And I have a -- I'm a stakeholder. I own property and I pay taxes. So that's what I'm saying, that I don't -- GRZYBOWSKI: I have a property for at least a year, even if I only live here for six months. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah. MCMAHON: Yeah. I just don't think that a year is definitive. MAYOR DICKEY: So we have a motion and -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: A second. MAYOR DICKEY: -- and a second. I'd like to make -- I'd like to discuss something, but I guess I -- do I have to make an amendment? I don't really -- I just wanted to bring -- put something -- ARNSON: No. MAYOR DICKEY: -- out there, that if somebody requests that they can't do like a slate, like they can't say, here's five names, you know? So it's got to be individual. That's -- and I'm okay with substantial connection. I kind of wish we didn't have the year thing in there. And I really think three minutes is kind of a lot for every meeting, but -- So I would like to amend it that there's no slates, that -- take out the one year, and make it two minutes. MCMAHON: And I would also like to add to that. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, could you -- yeah. Page 45 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 46 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MCMAHON: And add the voluntary participation -- SKILLICORN: Could you put your microphone on, please? MAYOR DICKEY: You have to second it, maybe. MCMAHON: That voluntary participation, no one will be required to stand or participate in any invocation. FRIEDEL. I think people can make their own choice for whether they sit or stand and we've seen that already. Secondly, Mayor, to your point about a slate. There are a group of pastors that are together in this town, and if they decide to get together and submit a list of four or five people that want to do the invocation, I think it's a lot easier on our town staff that's going to be handling that to let them go ahead and do that. I don't see a problem with that. You call it a slate. I don't know if that's the right word that I would use. But anyway, there's a group of pastors in this town that get together and I don't see any problem with that. That's just my two cents. MCMAHON: That is a problem. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman -- excuse me -- MCMAHON: Because they're combined together and they can be seen as our dictating that Christian values or a single religion is filling up the dates. And that was discussed before and why we said individually they had to call in, because we have to be careful and not having it look like it's dictated to us. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman, I would appreciate that because I think that it should be a fair process for everybody. So if there's an individual, they don't have four or five others that they can, you know -- this would make it a fair playing field so that -- FRIEDEL: And let me just correct one thing. They're not calling in. I thought it was the Town Manager or his designee that was going to contact them. MAYOR DICKEY: I think it's both, because we said if somebody contacted us and -- FRIEDEL: If there was an opening? MAYOR DICKEY: Right. So again, to just be completely fair -- following the law is doing things to all of us that we don't like, one way or the other. But we're following the law. And if we are going to be fair and take these phrases as they are -- an individual or an organization of any faith or no faith -- then we have to be fair on how we receive that. Page 46 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 47 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES So whether it's us contacting them, we can't contact somebody and fill it in with five people. We contact one person. We contact another person. Somebody contacts us. KALIVIANAKIS: Just to -- MAYOR DICKEY: I don't think we should allow five or six in one request. Let's put it that way. KALIVIANAKIS: Just to address that concern, Ms. Mayor, I don't think we have to codify your concem in this draft. I think the draft does what the draft is supposed to do. But I think administratively that you can give guidance to the Town Manager that we don't want to accept slates, that we're going to reach out to individuals. So I think that it can just be done administratively without being codified. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, I might've thought that, except that I just heard that I think that's what you want to do. So 1 don't know. I mean, we were all -- we all got emails that were filled in with five or six names and was basically insisting we did those five or six names in a row, the way that it was presented to us. That's exactly what I don't think we should be doing. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: I want it to just be a fair way of giving everybody the same opportunity to do this. MCMAHON: Yeah. First come, first served basis. That's part of it. MAYOR DICKEY: But again, to your point, I think if the intention is being mentioned here -- but I think it's very important that we do it one person at a time. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, and I think that could be directed to town staff and I think that's a reasonable request. ARNSON: So we have the main -- if I can -- sorry, if I may interject, Mayor? MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). ARNSON: So just to clarify for everybody where we're at right now, and I know that we still have a public comment. So I don't know, Mayor, if you want to take the comment now and then address -- MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. ARNSON: -- address the motions that are on the floor. We also don't have a second for the amendment yet, so we can come back to that. Page 47 of71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page /8 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, then we can do that. ARNSON: Okay. MENDENHALL• Crystal Cavanaugh? CAVANAUGH: Councilwoman McMahon, you're going to be really surprised. I'm actually in agreement with you. I, too, feel it should only be a minute. And I may be contradicting some people that I often agree with up here. It was a moment of silence. It was a minute. I think it should be that now. So I was really surprised when Sharron brought up three minutes. You're right. This isn't a church. And it should be a positive invocation or prayer or some positive message. I honestly feel it needs to have a Fountain Hills organization calling in with some representative giving the invocation. I feel like this is getting made way too big a deal out of So we have two council meetings a month approximately. You have 12 months out of the year. That's 24 scheduling opportunities. I don't think that's going to overwhelm the staff And then if it goes into a year and a half, fine. When you're talking snowbirds here for six months, that you lose me on, because it needs to be an organization based in Fountain Hills. I know the big thing is we don't want a Satanist. 1 don't know this Flying Spaghetti church you're talking about, either, Sharron. And I don't think we have a Satanic Temple here in Fountain Hills. And that is why I do think it needs to be an organization. However, I'm going to disagree with you on something here. I don't care what anybody in the audience does, stand, look around, not pay attention -- I don't care. But I feel out of respect every couneilmember should be standing quietly. You don't have to bow your head. You don't have to close your eyes. But you shouldn't be shuffling papers and bending around or walking around the dais. That 1 do find offensive. It's just a lack of respect, period. And so I think I've pretty much covered all the things that were important to me and I actually heard. But that's all. I just don't want it to be like certain groups can sabotage this by sending in like six names all at once and one's Flying Spaghetti and ones Satanic and one's -- or your worry, Christian, Christian, Christian -- who cares if it's Christian? Page 08 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 49 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES And I'm going to tell you what, I don't even care if you have a Satanic speaker. I'm not going to fall into their clutches just because someone speaks words for under 60 seconds, okay? So that's all I'm going to say. Common sense. MENDENHALL• We received another comment card. Ted Blank'? BLANK: Good evening, Mayor and council. My comment has to do with the first come, first served. I believe that that sets up a race condition which can make it very difficult for any group that isn't savvy with emails and so on, and it puts a difficult situation on -- a burden on the Town Manager to look up timestamps and so on. So as a statistician, my suggestion would be that you come up with a procedure where the Town Manager collects all the requests for an entire year and then you select randomly from those requests for the upcoming year, so that there won't be a race condition that causes people to feel like if they're first in line they can stack the entire year with their comments. So that would be my suggestion, would be to collect all the requests for the upcoming year, select them randomly. There will be more requests than there are opportunities, of course, but the random selection would allow there to be no possible way for someone to stack the deck with a slate or anything else like that. Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just to comment on the time, the one versus three minutes. I think in a way we're kind of conflating our letters to the editor, to the Fountain Hills Times, or our speaker cards. You know, they give you three minutes and boy, they go three minutes and ten seconds, okay? When you write a letter to the editor, it's going to be 299 words because they limit it to 300 words. I don't think somebody giving an invocation's going to try to hit that three -minute mark. I think they're just going to give a respectful invocation and not -- the clock is not going to be a concern. On the other hand, in respect for the Vice Mayor and respect for Sharron, I would be more than willing to go with -- split the baby, so to speak, to go two minutes. And I think maybe that we could all be happy with that. MAYOR DICKEY: So Aaron, I didn't get a second -- Aaron, I'll make it easy on you. 1 Page 49 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 50 of71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES didn't get a second and if they go to the two minutes and we already talked about the slate stuff, then I'm good. ARNSON: So Mayor, are you withdrawing your amendment? MAYOR DICKEY: So don't worry about my amendment. ARNSON: Thank you. Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: So what did we say? TOTH: Second. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: (Indiscernible). MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, we don't even have a motion. ARNSON: So on the table, we have a pending motion that has been seconded already, like 10 or 15 minutes ago, to vote for the -- MILLER: Proposed. ARNSON: -- the proposed version that Councilmember Kalivianakis provided with now assuming that Councilmember Toth is okay with that. TOTH: Yeah, can I agree with that amendment and just -- ARNSON: That Toth is okay with that. Yes, that you can agree with the two -minute provision SKILLICORN: Then I will amend my second. ARNSON: Oh, I'm sorry. I don't know who -- you seconded it. I'm sorry, Councilmember. And is that it? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No. ARNSON: As far as I'm concerned, I guess. MILLER: I think that's a wrap. ARNSON: Sony, if there was something else? MCMAHON: Yes. ARNSON: Yeah. MCMAHON: I'm requesting to have a voluntary participation. No one will be required to stand or participate in any invocation, because sometimes people can be intimidated by it and not know what to do, but not -- and Ijust think it's important that people know that they have the freedom to stand, sit, or whatever and it's part of our policy. MAYOR DICKEY: What if I say what I usually do, which is, you know, if you -- what Page 50 of71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 51 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES do I say? I say -- I know I say something like, you know, if you care -- if you would like to join us, please stand for the pledge and the invocation. If 1 say that every time? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Um -hum. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. GRZYBOWSKI: I don't feel like we need to put it in the policy, because I'm going to tell you, your average attendee probably would not read the policy. Shake your head -- am I right, people? Would you not read the policy before you came? That's kind of what I figured. So I don't see that we need to put that in the policy. I am concerned that brick and mortar in town was discussed, so I hope we're not considering that. Because we have a whole lot of religions that are represented here that go to church out of town. So I don't -- I disagree that it needs to be local. Sony, Crystal. MAYOR DICKEY: Did you have brick and mortar on this -- what you wrote up, Brenda? I don't think you did. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay, we have a motion and a second, and I think a lot of discussion that'll help with putting this in place. SKILLICORN: Can 1 request a roll call? MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, sure. We have a motion and a second. All those in -- oops, we'll do a roll call. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski'? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL Councilmember Friedel'? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicom? SKILLICORN: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor McMahon? Page 51 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 52 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MCMAHON: Nay. MENDENHALL: Nay. Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you, everyone. It's hard to get through this. Our next item is Community Center storage pods. Grady? MILLER: Yes, Mayor and council, at the last council meeting we had an item on the agenda that our Finance Director, David Pock, presented. It had to do with budget transfers. These were routine budget transfers. During the discussion of that particular item, there were some councilmembers who had questions about the intended use of the transfer monies for the Community Services Department that were going for two temperature controlled storage pods that would be used for the Community Center. Our Deputy Town Manager and Community Services Director, Rachael Goodwin, will give you a report on this. We've had some change since the last time this was before the council and that's why it's before you tonight. So with that, I'll turn it over to Ms. Goodwin. GOODWIN: Thank you. Mayor and council, thank you for having me back. I apologize, I'm a little scratchy tonight. If you can't hear me, I will do my best to speak up. I have teamed a lot about storage pods in the last two weeks. There has been a lot, a lot of digging. You have a brief background in your packet, but I thought I would review quickly what the storage pods are for. I'd like to also pause and thank a number of council who reached out to understand, to take tours, to see firsthand what the storage was for. So thank you for your time. Quickly, the proposal before you is primarily to store our medical equipment that is part of our medical equipment loaner program. The town has run the program since 2018. Previously, it was run by a church here in town. They just exceeded their Page 52 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 53 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES capacity. They could not store it, nor could they facilitate the hours when folks could come and access the pieces. It was taken over at the urging -- by the town. Keep in mind that we do not rent. We do not charge for the items. We lend out more than a hundred pieces annually. Currently, we have about 45 pieces out. In fact, we even lent out a piece this weekend, so someone could access the car show. So I think that that is very telling to show how many people do use this resource in our community. The program also serves all. It's impartial and it's not dependent on income, age, race, culture, religion. I like to say it serves the little boy that, you know, tumed his ankle on the basketball court and it also serves great -grandma when she needs to come to graduation. It runs the gamut. So it is a well -used program. In addition, we have some other storage challenges. I call it our seasonal storage. It's a lot of Christmas stuff. If you've been in the Community Center at Christmastime, we have dozens upon dozens of trees. We store about ten of those plus the large 24-foot tree, all the decor items that go with that. But it's more than that. It's our Make a Difference Day supplies. It's our Home Delivered Meals supplies. It's our Autumn Harvest, our Sock Hop, our ping-pong tables. It's a lot of stuff So staff was asked to look into a number of storage options, which we did. Before you tonight is what I call our most aggressive path. It's two storage pods. It's two temperature -controlled storage pods 20 foot each. They are insulated. What we are finding is that they have increased in price. We originally priced this out back in the fall. The pricing is going up and that is really contributed from two factors; one, storage units are really popular in the tiny house movement; secondly, they are also very popular for temporary housing as communities face the housing shortage. That being said, we are working to evaluate alternate options, including retrofitting or modifying one existing storage structure that we do have. I want to thank our Public Works and our Facilities folks for meeting onsite, really brainstorming options and throwing out ways that we can be logical and fiscally pragmatic. So 1 think that that was the charge from council and Pd like to say that I'm very impressed with our staff taking that very to heart. So the request before you tonight is an approval of a budget not to exceed $30,000, which allows staff to continue to explore all avenues and develop a storage Page 53 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 59 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES solution that meets the needs of our programs, as well as preserves our limited fiscal resources. With that, I'm happy to answer any questions. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director, so just a quick question. We're currently using the shed to store the things and really it's the issue of the summertime and we have a little bit more material to store over the summertime because it's not used quite as much. You know, if we delayed this, if we decided not to approve this, it doesn't end the program, right? GOODWIN: Correct. There's no intention to end the program. SKILLICORN: So even if -- yeah, if we voted no, it wouldn't end the program. And I thank you for -- I do see the invoices here. Would this be quantity two of these two invoices, or -- GOODWIN: No. That represents one storage unit, just to give you like a direct quote. That is uninsulated. That is a storage unit with an air conditioning and that's it. Any additional add-ons including insulation, including a doorway, are all upwards of that number. So it's not inexpensive, which is why I do believe, like I said, us looking into alternative options including retrofitting a piece that we do have to supplement one of these may be our best bet forward. SKILLICORN: Um -hum. Um -hum. Okay. And then just a tiny bit of research I've done, I've actually found there's a gentleman in town that repairs this equipment, like mostly wheelchairs. And he actually runs it out of his garage on the north side of town. So it was kind of funny that, you know, there's someone already kind of doing this and he does it on kind of his own. But he's operating out of a one -car garage, kind of like we are in a sense. GOODWIN: Sure. SKILLICORN: And I did, you know, reach out to the school district and someone on the school board. You know, they did mention there's vacant space. I do kind of still wonder about, you know, transporting half of it to the school district in the summertime and half of it back in the fall. I mean, a volunteer could do that. Even I could do that. It seems to Page 54 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 55 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES be a workable solution. But that's all. GOODWIN: Great. MAYOR DICKEY: It looked like you were going to -- GRZYBOWSKI: I was going to press the button. Ijust was making sure you weren't talking to Hannah. I know I saw online somebody was questioning, let's evaluate this for a year and you can come back. I'm under the impression you've had the storage unit -- I know almost since as long as I've known you, like 2019 or 2018. So we've basically already evaluated it and confirmed that it is a necessity that we have the storage. 1 know firsthand from visiting often that you get requests almost daily, so they're out there in the storage shed nearly daily, grabbing whatever it is that they need. And I also know you guys are bursting out at the seams and we can't just use one of your current classrooms to store these things. GOODWIN: That would not be -- it would not be advisable in that it would take one of our classrooms offline. With trying to serve our community and make sure that we have space available for all of our programs and rentals and meeting groups and what not, that would really disrupt that availability. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? FRIEDEL: Rachael, thanks for all the work. We've had several conversations about this and we -- Ijust wanted our residents to know that we are really digging down to find the best possible solution and save the most amount of money, and Rachael and her group have done a good job. So I think it's possible that -- if we can work out, like Allen had suggested, something with the school to store long-term stuff up there. The stuff we need by the minute, hour, and day, it's impossible. We don't have the staff to be running around for that. So I like that idea, Councilman Skillicom. If that does comes to fruition, maybe we can explore that. It would help the school district out. It would help us out. But if we could do this with one storage unit and a retro fit and come in under budget, I think we give her the ability to explore that and so I'm a yes on this, so at some point I'll make a motion if we need it. MCMAHON: I'd like to make the motion. Page 55 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 56 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: I forgot to ask if there were any speaker cards, sorry. MCMAHON: Yeah, there are. MENDENHALL: Yes. We actually have some speaker cards and comment cards. At your station, you should have a comment from Stephanie Czopp. And then we have one from Jack Gramm and one from Liz Gildersleeve. And then we have two in -person comments. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MENDENHALL: The first is Rick Watts. WATTS: Good evening, Mayor, council. First, I'm really glad I picked this topic and not one of the other ones tonight. Second, I am a proponent of the program and the program does a world of good for a lot of people that are in a lot of need. But I do question the necessity of having it climate -controlled. I didn't see anywhere where any of the manufacturers were contacted about the temperature range that the equipment has to be kept within. I think that some of the deterioration that occurs is more wear and tear, as opposed to temperature -related. So I would ask that we consider that. And 1 would also consider it from the standpoint of humidity control. That's probably more important than actual temperature control. You'll see that most of the equipment that is battery -operated has a wide range of application where it can operate. Following that, are we anticipating the total cost of ownership over the life of the pods themselves? You factor in maintenance costs, repair costs, ongoing utility costs, all of those components that are again attributable to the temperature component that I really don't think is a necessity. I think what you'll find in town is that most of the storage facilities are not climate -controlled and there's not a negative impact on the equipment that's stored there. If it's a comfort consideration and if there was long-term involvement, if staff was down there for an hour or two a day getting what they needed to get, but it sounds more like it's an in and out type of a situation where comfort is not necessarily the primary responsibility or the primary criteria. So I think those things I would ask you to consider, take into consideration before approving or moving forward with the climate control. I don't think we have an extreme situation. I think that the term extreme -- if you're out working in the environment, you Page 56 or 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 57 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES get used to it. So it's not necessarily extreme and I would ask that we look at the manufacturer's recommendation for operating parameters. Thank you. MENDENHALL. And we have one more speaker card, but they're electing to comment in writing that they're for the purchase of the storage pods. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any further questions, discussion? FRIEDEL. Rachacl, I did ask you about maintenance. Would you like to cover that? GOODWIN: You did. One of the questions was the operation of the air conditioning unit. Obviously, that is seasonal and ideally, the unit would -- and I'd like to say, we've been definitely working towards making sure that we are within the manufacturer's operations. We've been talking with Justin (ph.) about what is a reasonable temperature in the dead of summer when it's 120 outside. Maintaining probably mid to upper 80's, probably an 85 degree temperature is the ideal situation, so that it's not getting so hot that things are melting, splitting, cracking, sticky, is really the answer here. But the operation is pretty nominal. The maintenance, thankfully, is very low as well. These are storage pods. These are units that are used for shipping. They're airtight. They're watertight. They come painted and sealed. If we would need to do long-term painting, if we would need to repaint in say, 1 don't know, eight to ten years because of just rust or wear and tear, I imagine that would be relatively nominal as well. They're not for aesthetics, by any means. They're not out front. They are tucked behind the Community Center. It's really about function and not the, you know, the beauty of each piece, so to speak. So the additional cost that would be associated with this would be to run the electrical that would be needed to operate the cooling units. We've been working with Justin to see how we can make that happen in-house and we believe that there's sufficient access back behind the Community Center to do that. FRIEDEL- And the painting can be in-house as well, right? GOODWIN: 1 would think. MCMAHON: Thank you. Page 57 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 58 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES If we're done with discussion, I'd like to make a motion. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. KALIVIANAKIS: I just have one more thing to discuss before the motion, please. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you. Yeah, I just wanted to say my support for this expenditure. This first came to my knowledge when I was in the Leadership Academy way back when and we did the tour. And I wasn't on the Town Council then, I was just a regular person. And your staff had addressed this issue back then. They said, look at this big building and look at this small storage arca we have. And everyone thinks it's a huge building and they should have a big storage area. They don't. And if we don't help them with storage, then were going to have to start closing down rooms that are usable right now for mahjong or whatever, you know, they basically allow the seniors use during the daytime. I think that'd be a terrible thing. And so -- you know, based on our vote last two, three weeks ago, I did do the tour with you. We looked at it. We eyeballed it. You discussed what the needs were. I talked to other staff that had been in the Community Center for years and they're like, we really need this, Brenda. We really need this. And so based on that, I changed my mind. And I just want to say, I'm very much in support of this. MCMAHON: I move to approve a budget transfer not to exceed $30,000 for the purchase and installation of two storage pods, finally. KALIVIANAKIS: I'll second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? SKILLICORN: Nay. GOODWIN: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Our last action item is relating to the League of Cities and Towns Legislative Page 58 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 59 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Bulletins. Grady, did you want to kick it off? MILLER: Yes. So Mayor and council, in your packet we have the Legislative Bulletin that is published by the League of Arizona Cities and Towns. And we also had a number of councilmembers, I recognized the Mayor and some staff people, who were in on the legislative call that we had this week as well. And I just have a few, if you don't mind, that I'm going to just cover and then we've talked about some of the other ones as well. But one that I thought was noteworthy was House Bill 2418. This has to do with law enforcement response times. This would be basically an unfunded mandate that would establish minimum response times of five minutes or less for law enforcement to respond to emergencies. So the concern there is it's not really defined as what an emergency really is, and so as we know we have a priority system for law enforcement to -- for MCSO to respond to calls for service. The other thing is, is that if you don't meet those response times, you'll have like a year to try to get up to that speed and then if you don't get there, then you have to come up with an action plan. And so the concern is, is this is really almost like a mandate to add additional law enforcement officers. So cities that have their own police departments and those of us that are under contract with MCSO, I think that this is just really not a good piece of legislation for cities and towns. It doesn't give the cities and towns the ability to really -- you know, we obviously want to maintain low response times because that's really very important. But this is one that I think is just taking away a little bit too much control from local governments. The other one that we spent probably the most time yesterday on the phone -- excuse me, it was on -- yeah, yesterday. Sony. And that was Senate Bill 1117. This is basically zoning by -right and it would allow homes that -- you have lots right now where basically you would be allowed to have additional dwelling units built on your property, even though the zoning may not allow for it today. And so the idea is that -- advocates are advocating for this because it would create additional -- you know, they're claiming it would create additional housing developments, affordable housing. But part of the issue with this is that there also could be single Page 59 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 60 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES occupancy types of rooms, so you're really talking about like neighborhoods that might actually have boardinghouses. So that's a totally different change from what neighborhoods are today. This would also not have any kind of public process such as Planning and Zoning or council, so any involvement with some of these types of developments that the council currently enjoys the ability to have -- the ability to weigh in, they would not have that ability. There's a lot more other issues with this, but I think this is one that the League is really urging cities and towns to get their councils to oppose. And then the only other one, Mayor and council, is Senate Bill 1162. This is basically allowing property owners to have -- as a matter of right, they can have homebased businesses. Right now, we allow homebased businesses. There's no issue with that, but this could take it to another level. This could take homebased businesses to having auto mechanics working in their homes, manufacturing, things that we would typically not want to see or have in our neighborhoods currently, because it would change the character of the neighborhood. So those were three that I thought were probably the most onerous of the bills that are being considered. MAYOR DICKEY: Do you have any -- GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I just wanted to mention -- oh, crap. Which was the first one you read? 24 -- MILLER: 18. GRZYBOWSKI: --18, right? MILLER: Yes. GRZYBOWSKI: According to my notes, not only is it the five-minute response time, when they conduct their annual review, if we're out of compliance we only have 60 days to get in compliance. Not a year, it's 60 days. MILLER: Thanks for that correction. GRZYBOWSKI: And what was the other things that I -- the next one was -- that 1 wanted to talk about was the Senate Bill 1117. No P&Z, no council, no public engagement. And I don't know that I understand this type of housing, but not only did he Page 60 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 61 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES say it's very, very bad, but he went so far as to mention we could be stuck with dorm style apartments. And you know, in my mind 1 want to say loft. But he actually used the word dorm style, so I don't know what that is, but I don't know that we would be pleased with that. Was there anything else that I saw that I wanted to bring up? No, I guess not. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman? I mean, Vice Mayor? MCMAHON: Yes, I've seen a couple of them. 1 think it's SB 1063 and HB 2061, stop taxing groceries, and if this bill is passed, it would ban cities from charging sales tax on food items for your homes and as a result, our town would lose millions of dollars annually. We cannot afford to lose millions of dollars annually. One argument is that this will adversely affect the people on food stamps, et cetera. It will not affect them at all. They are already provided for. Also SB 1184, stop rental taxes, would ban cities from charging sales tax on rent for residential dwellings, et cetera, for up to four units. Again, that would prevent a lot of revenue from coming into Fountain Hills. And there's another one that says stop rental taxes -- taxes on rental properties. I think that that one should be opposed because again, it is going to really adversely affect our income to the town. And we reply [sic] on those transaction privilege taxes because we do not have real property taxes. So it doesn't make any sense to oppose these, especially if you have budget concerns because -- I mean, it just doesn't make any sense to say, okay, let's cut out all this income and then, you know, we don't have enough money to cover streets or cover anything in the budget. I mean, that's just ridiculous. There is another one, HB 2284, homeless housing tents. It would make it a crime for a homeless person to put up a tent. I mean, that's going a little bit too far. I don't think that's appropriate. And then, I think it's HB 2003, to lower corporate income tax. Well, if you think about -- our corporations already have low income tax thresholds. We are going -- from what I've seen today through MAG and the Arizona Economic Commission, we are Page 61 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 62 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES going to see over the next ten years billions of dollars of growth. If we start lowering corporate tax more than it even is now, over a period of time, we're not going to be able to take advantage of any of those billions of dollars. And again, that would that decimate our budget. So I think that for all the financial reasons and more, we should oppose those bills. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So the combination of the food tax bill and the rental and the corp -- the corporation one wouldn't set in right away, but the total of those would be in today's dollars $2.9 million per year removed from the Fountain Hills -- you know, from our revenue. So that's a big deal. It's not just like a one shot deal. The 1162 effectively defunds Valley Metro, destabilizing our -- it's basically kind of a Prop. 400 extension, but it's not going to help at all. It's actually going to hurt. So then there's one we actually support, 2236, which is administrative review approvals. It puts more in John's purview there, rather than ours, and it's actually a League resolution and so that one we would support. Another one that's hurtful, I don't exactly know how much because I didn't get a chance to talk to David, but the one that says 1245 VLT taxes all have to be put towards transportation. I don't know how that would work in our community because, you know, we get the shared revenue, which is VLT, income tax, sales tax statewide -- we get our share. And I don't know how much of that, you know, we could say, okay, goes to transportation because we're not like -- we don't spend a lot on transportation. So that could potentially hurt us, too. So we will take positions on bills at times and in this case, most of them, I think, have been through committees, so it would probably be a matter of Grady having to write a letter either to the next committee up, since we missed some of them already, or to the floor, you know, the president or the speaker, if it gets to the floor of those. So I can run down those, but I want to know if anybody has an objection to us taking -- and by the way, these are all either League opposed or League supported. So it's not -- it's the League of Arizona Cities and Towns. And they don't always do that. But this time they are actually taking a lot of these stands. So we can talk about them more, or we can talk about having Grady -- especially Page 62 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 63 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES with the tax bills and the law enforcement one and the 1117 one. We definitely need to do those. GRZYBOWSKI: I just wanted to mention that the food municipal tax exemption and the rental exemption is only from town funds. It's not affecting the state budget at all. What they're looking at messes with our budget and our revenue. So that's one of, I think, the things that upsets me more, is not only are you telling us where to spend our money, like the VLT or some of this other stuff, but now you're screwing with our budget and not even yours. So I think that's what really upsets me about that is, I get that you want to cut taxes, I'm all for that, but cut your taxes. Don't take it out of our kitty because we already have this stuff pegged for all sorts of different things. It's a whole new budget conversation. MENDENHALL- Yes, we do. Kim Wolborsky? WOLBORSKY: I'm so glad my husband comes up here all the time, because you can pronounce my name. It's wonderful. So I have a couple of things. I agree with Councilmember Grzybowski that this is -- although it's lovely to cut taxes, I love less taxes -- that we do need to fund our streets. We really need to fund our street repairs and cutting out the food tax is -- you know, maybe this isn't the time for that. But what I also wanted to answer was Vice Mayor's McMahon's thought about the homeless tents. I know it sounds really cruel and unkind to make that illegal, but I have to tell you I moved here from Seattle, Washington in 2019, and I have seen that. I have seen what it's like. For me to leave my office in Seattle, I had to drive through homeless encampments. And people would come out onto the streets, out onto the freeways. I mean, it started out really small and it just got bigger and it spread to the suburbs. It's just such a horrible thing and it's so sad and it's so bad for the people who are in the tents. It's not a good solution for them. Those things just become -- it's just heartbreaking. You know, there's just like so many drugs, so much alcohol. It's just like a nonstop party for people who shouldn't be partying. So I just wanted to say, even though it sounds like an unpleasant law, I do support So thank you. Page 63 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 64 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. That bill's a little weird anyway. It's kind of hard to explain it. Actually, it's forcing cities to do something, but not giving them the money to do it. So that's why it's being opposed. So it's like, you have to ban it, but then you're on your own. So you know, it's obviously such a huge problem everywhere, but this is just a kind of punishment thing, again, for a city that maybe can't do anything about it right now. So I think that that was the basis for the League saying they opposed it, but I mean, we don't have to, you know, necessarily take a stand on all these bills, but -- were you going to say something, Sharron? I saw your light. GRZYBOWSKI: Actually, I was going to say exactly what you said. To me, it's less about the illegal portion, but more about here you are helping us spend our money again. We have to send our resources whether it be the MCSO or Code or -- we don't have the funding behind that. So they're asking us to do something without funding it. That, I think, to me is my big pet peeve there. Again, you're helping me spend my money. I can do that myself. MAYOR DICKEY: So at the minimum, I would ask that we would oppose 2418, the law enforcement one, the VLT 1245, support 2536 because that's an administrative review for development, and definitely oppose -- and there's a lot of those tax bills. I can give you the numbers of them. It's 1063, 1089, 1184, 2061, 2067, and 2003. And then 1117 -- 1117, that one, seriously -- it's no density, height, they're all unregulated. No P&Z no public notice, no council vote. Essentially eliminates single family zoning. No design reviews. No sidewalks, open space, landscaping, garages, all those things we talk about when someone wants to build something, it would just not be something that we could do. And I think that you should be aware of the homebased business one, too, because that goes into this discussion of group homes and anything, because this is homebased businesses by -right. And it could even be like a car repair, so -- GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, he specifically mentioned, I see dentists, I see auto mechanics -- and there was a third one that he mentioned that I didn't make a note of that we would all not want that as our neighbor. Yeah. Page 64 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 65 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: So that's 1162. I'm not sure what the motivation for that one is, but I think it's something that we would want to oppose. MCMAHON: They probably don't know, either. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? SKILLICORN: Mayor, if we're looking for something unanimous, 1 think the only one I'm going to -- or the only ones I agree with are like the local zoning issues that we want to have control over. So if we're looking unanimous, that's what I'd recommend, but -- otherwise, you know, there's some here that, you know, I'm okay with or I have a differing opinion. MILLER: From what I do -- is I typically I can kind of read that there's a consensus on this. Typically, we've had debate on those where very clearly there's, you know, opposing views on certain bills. And so I'm not going to put a letter and stick my neck out on a bill that there's obviously divisiveness on the council. But it appears that there's consensus on the ones that we've talked about tonight. And it sounds like, you know, Councilmember Skillicom doesn't necessarily agree with all of them, but there appears to be at least -- MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. MILLER: -- you know, without voting on -- there's consensus. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, just so I'm on the record, I do support the Mayor's slate and all that you said there, I'm for that. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. We're -- let's see, we're adjourned. No. Our next item is discussion and direction to Town Manager. SKILLICORN: Mayor, may I? MAYOR DICKEY: Of course. SKILLICORN: Thank you, Mayor. For Town -- or actually, 1 wanted a couple motions for future agendas. The first one is, I do want to make a motion to put on the agenda the P&Z recommendation for the commercial detoxes that passed unanimously back on January 9th. 1 do have a quick question. I don't know if we need a notice, 15 days, for a hearing, though. That's my belief ARNSON: So we would -- of course, if you wanted to just discuss it without acting on it, Page 65 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 66 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES then no. But in order to make that change -- John, we are recommending that that come for a public hearing process? I'm trying to remember what we ultimately decided. WESLEY: Mayor and council and Mr. Arnson, there is a provision in the zoning ordinance that when P&Z has held a public hearing, that a public hearing isn't necessarily required at council. We typically do, just to make sure our bases are covered if somebody has a question or objection. ARNSON: Okay. WESLEY: But we can have this on the next council meeting. ARNSON: Thank you for the reminder. SKILLICORN: So I would like action, so I wouldn't mind the clock starting for the 15 days. KALIVIANAKIS: Wasn't this already noticed in P&Z? WESLEY: Yes, we did have a notice of public hearing at P&Z. So the ordinance does allow us to have it on the council without another public hearing. SKILLICORN: Oh. KALIVIANAKIS: So we need an additional notice to the P&Z notice? WESLEY: No. It is not required. Typically we do -- KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. WESLEY: -- but it is not required. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. MILLER: Okay -- SKILLICORN: I would like to go -- but what we typically do is notice it. MILLER: So if I can, John, this is the one I think that -- Councilmember Kalivianakis -- we were going to have this on the agenda because there were -- support from three to put it on and then there was one that withdrew their support. So we had done a public hearing, but then it didn't end up being on the agenda. But that -- SKILLICORN: 1 think that this one is the commercial detox. MILLER: Commercial detox. I apologize. I thought I heard you say sober living, so I apologize. SKILLICORN: I mean -- and if we have two seconds, I'd like to have that. Page 66 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 67 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MILLER: Okay. SKILLICORN: Is there two seconds? TOTH: Second. SKILLICORN: Yes. Yes, please. KALIVIANAKIS: Will this be an action item? SKILLICORN: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: No. No? SKILLICORN: Well, I think -- so we need -- typically, we'd do a hearing. So I'd like to do it the way we typically -- I don't want to do it a new and unusual way. I'd like to do it as a hearing. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. SKILLICORN: So we need to have a notice for that hearing. MILLER: Is there going to be enough time? ARNSON: So I don't know that that means there's enough time -- SKILLICORN: Yes. ARNSON: -- for the 21 st, but it would be the meeting following -- SKILLICORN: Yes. ARNSON: -- that. Am I right, John? WESLEY: You're correct. ARNSON: Thank you. WESLEY: Yeah. Yes, you re correct. MILLER: So just for clarification, what meeting -- for the record, when is that going to be, then, John? WESLEY: So we could notice on the l5th and the 22nd. So we could have it on March 7th. MILLER: Okay, March 7th. And you're talking about the recent ordinance that came from P&Z? SKILLICORN: Yes. MILLER: On detox. SKILLICORN: The one that passed on January 9th. Page 67 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 68 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MILLER: Yes, okay. KALIVIANAKIS: I'm still very confused. Excuse me, but if this thing was already noticed in P&Z and it's moved up to Town Council, we don't need an additional notice. FRIEDEL: No, we don't. KALIVIANAKIS: We don't. FRIEDEL: No. KALIVIANAKIS: This can be placed on the 2l st agenda for an action item. SKILLICORN: If there's consensus in two seconds to move it on the 21 st, that's fine. MILLER: We were just following the direction of the sponsor of this, so. SKILLICORN: If there's consensus in two seconds, we could do the 2l st. FRIEDEL: Yeah. Put it on the 21 st, please. MILLER: Okay. TOTH: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. SKILLICORN: The next one-- so an agenda item for the retreat, I would like to have an agenda item on combatting homelessness in town. Can I get a pair of seconds? MILLER: You had previously asked me and that's on the agenda already. SKILLICORN: Okay. MILLER: And you also had another one that you had about streets first. SKILLICORN: Yeah. I want to have like a roads first resolution -- MILLER: Right. SKILLICORN: -- for budgeting also on that. MILLER: Okay. SKILLICORN: And then this is not an agenda item, but I would love if -- and 1 don't know if it would be Mr. Wesley or someone from Code Enforcement. When we had -- was it -- I forget her name. She came in and mentioned the complaint she had about the construction debris on her property. MILLER: Yes. SKILLICORN: i d love to hear -- MILLER: Ms. Stokes. SKILLICORN: Stokes -- yeah, Amy Stokes, was it? Page 68 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 69 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MILLER: Um -hum. SKILLICORN: 1 would love to hear, maybe once a month, like a list of-- you know, of code enforcement complaints just so we're aware of where things are moving. MAYOR DICKEY: What was this then? MILLER: So I'm -- SKILLICORN: Or at least an update. MILLER: Okay. SKILLICORN: I think council should have an update of what's going on there. MILLER: So what I do typically on these is you'll see an email back from me that indicates that the matter's been resolved or it might be coming back before council. I'm not saying that this specific one, but I will be sending an email off. So if there's a way -- well talk about it and we'll figure out a way to get -- SKILLICORN: Yeah, my intent is not to find out during a meeting. My intent is we actually could see it and maybe address it before -- you know, residents I don't think should wait. MAYOR DICKEY: I believe -- hasn't John -- we've been getting those updates every month. SKILLICORN: I don't think there was anything specific, though, like— FRIEDEL Right. They just give us a brief overview, a recap. SKILLICORN: -- yeah, of course, I didn't know about this. MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, you mean like which action -- SKILLICORN: Yeah. I'd really like to, you know, know that those are taken care of. MILLER: Okay, we'll -- I so noted and I'll work with staff on trying to figure out -- SKILLICORN: Great. MILLER: -- what you're asking for. SKILLICORN: Great. MILLER: Thank you. SKILLICORN: Thank you so much. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Yes, ma'am? TOTH: Quickly, I would like to submit for the third time my request to discuss the roundabout. I believe my original wording was -- let me unlock my thing real quick. Page 69 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 70 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES I'd like to submit a request for the discussion and possible action item of termination of the roundabout and grand staircase capital projects and transfer of these funds for design or development to road maintenance on the -- it was originally supposed to be on the 1/17 agenda. This was an email sent on January 6, so I apologize -- on the February 21st agenda. Thank you. SKILLICORN: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, anyway, telling or asking to have something on the agenda doesn't mean which agenda it has to be on, and it is on the retreat, just like every capital project is. TOTH: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: And as you know, we went to chamber and tried to get some information from them. And it's a work in progress, but obviously as we move forward this is something that well discuss. So it's not an item for an actual -- SKILLICORN: The rules allow it. MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me? SKILLICORN: Point of order. The rules allow agenda items to be proposed. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, I know. She did propose it. TOTH: That actually does remind me of a second item I'd like to request for the February 2lst agenda. And that would be an update to Council Rule 4.2(B), paragraph 2, to require that be when three councilmembers request for something to be on the agenda, that that is then on the next available agenda. So if an agenda's full, understood, but the next available agenda. MAYOR DICKEY: That's fine. 1 think we discussed that, too -- SKILLICORN: I'll second that motion. MAYOR DICKEY: That's fine, but that's not possible because we have to have staff involvement. So that's really why it doesn't go on the next agenda. If you send me a note -- TOTH: I specifically said next available agenda. And I'll follow those requests up in an email as well. Thank you. Page 70 of 71 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 71 of 71 FEBRUARY 7, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Well, we have two people saying that, so we'll talk about that later. That is it, unless there's anything else? Okay. ARNSON: Okay. So hold on, sorry. Before we leave, the way that 1 understood this is that we want three. So is there a -- for -- MILLER: That's what the policy's states. ARNSON: Yeah. So we got number two from Councilmember Skillicorn. Did we get a number three for Councilwoman Toth? MAYOR DICKEY: Well, it'll be on the 28th. ARNSON: I'm talking about either item. MAYOR DICKEY: We're discussing it at the retreat. MAYOR DICKEY: Um -hum. ARNSON: Three. ARNSON: Three. With respect to both of her items? Okay. That's -- I'm glad. Then that doesn't leave me wondering what happened, okay? TOTH: And just to be technical really quickly, the Council Rules do state by written request, so if we could all just write an email to follow up with that? Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Anything else? Okay. Good night. We're adjourned. Page 71 of 71