HomeMy WebLinkAboutMMPC.2023.0403.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION
APRIL 3, 2023
1. CALL TO ORDER
2. ROLL CALL
Present: Chairman Scott Grzybowski; Commissioner Bill Craig; Commissioner Janice
Holden; Commissioner Steven Nurney; Commissioner Sherry Irwin (Arrived after Roll
Call)
Absent: Commissioner Brian Jennings
Staff Present: Rachael Goodwin, Interim Town Manager; Patti Lopuszanski, Executive
Assistant
3. CALL TO THE PUBLIC - NONE
Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (not required) on
matters NOT listed on the agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction
of the Commission, and (ii) is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner
restrictions. The Commission will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised
during Call to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed for discussion and legal
action. At the conclusion of the Call to the Public, individual commissioners may (i)
respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to review a matter, or (iii) ask that the matter be placed
on a future Commission agenda.
4. CONSIDERATION & POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of MMPC Meeting Minutes of
January 24, 2023
Chairman Grzybowski Moved to Approve the MMPC Meeting Minutes of January 24,
2023. The Motion was Seconded by Commissioner Willard.
Motion Passed Unanimously
6-0
5. CONSIDERATION & POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the MMPC Meeting Minutes
of March 2, 2023
Chairman Grzybowski Moved to Approve the MMPC Meeting Minutes of March 2, 2023.
The Motion was Seconded by Commissioner Craig.
Motion Passed Unanimously
6-0
6. UPDATE: MMPC Expanded Scope Working Group Discussion
Options to be considered:
• Change the charter of the MMPC to include the Lake Overlook Trail and the
Botanical Gardens requiring the need to change the name of the MMPC.
• Create a whole new commission and sunset the MMPC. This option would allow
the commission to be whatever MMPC would want to call that new commission
• Additional brainstorming on what this could look like will continue to be discussed
and brought back by the workgroup to the commission.
7. DISCUSSION: Non -Native Plant (NNP) Buffelgrass on North Leg Trail
• Discussion around the Non -Native Plant, specifically the buffelgrass on North
Leg Trail, and how to eradicate this invasive plant. It was shared that Scottsdale
does pesticides. Information from Scott Hamilton from Scottsdale was shared
with Mr. Snipes and it will be further discussed on how the town wants to handle
this issue.
• Ms. Goodwin shared that the next step for the commission is to make a motion at
the next MMPC meeting to bring their recommendation to Town Council as a
recommendation or share it via email that there is an identified problem. The
plant has to be actively growing for the herbicide to be effective.
8. UPDATE: Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Liaison
• Host program daily for March, and will run it up until April 23 on a daily basis.
• Parking down the road and up the road has become an issue and it is in the bike
lane. Ms. Goodwin was to check with Mr. Snipes on the town putting up
weekend signage to help resolve this issue.
9. REVIEW AND DISCUSSION: Trail Counter Activity
• The March 2023 trail activity report was shared with the commissioners.
10. DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Adero Resort Connector to the Preserve
• Bill Meyers spoke at the last MMPC meeting and gave tips on how to continue
the dialogue with all the parties involved to provide a connector to the Preserve
from Adero Canyon Resort.
• Commissioner Willard stated he had spoken with Bill Myers, and his takeaway
was that the connector would be for the benefit of the Adero Scottsdale Resort
and therefore if Bill Hines wants to move forward on that project and figure out all
the properties involved and permissions to be reviewed that should begin with
him.
11. DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Future Agenda Items
• New trail recommendations and renaming to update the Master Plan and to
begin prior to November once approved by Town Council at the June meeting.
Ms. Goodwin shared that the renaming of the trails for approval should be easy
but that the new trail approval will need more discussion to bring the new council
members up to date on the work done by MMPC.
• Status of Trail Counters
• Cameras at Adero Canyon Trailhead — To be discussed further at the April 27,
2023 Meeting.
12. UPDATE: Next MMPC Meeting is April 27, 2023, at 4:00 pm Town Council
Chambers. Agenda items and attachments are due by April 13, 2023, to be included in
the next meeting packet.
13. ADJOURNMENT
MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION
SEott Grzyb6wski, Chairman
ST AND PREPARED BY:
ki. cutive Assistant
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of
the Regular Meeting held by the Fountain Hills McDowell Mountain Preservation
Commission in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 3rd day of
April 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was
present.
DATED this 27th day of April 2023
five Assistant
MMPC April 3, 2023, Meeting Rescheduled from March 28, 2023
Post -Production File
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 3, 2023, RESCHEDULED FROM MARCH 28, 2023
MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING
VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES
Transcription Provided By:
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Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may
not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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MMPC April 3, 2023, Meeting Rescheduled from March 28, 2023
GRZYBOWSKI: Let's call the MMPC meeting of April 3rd, rescheduled from March 28, 2023. Thank
you. Call to Order is at 1603 PM (5:03 PM). Let's go with a Roll Call.
LOPUSZANSKI: Chairman Grzybowski
GRZYBOWSKI: Here
LOPUSZANSKI: Vice Chair Nurney.
NURNEY: Here
LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Craig
CRAIG: Here
LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Holden.
HOLDEN: Here
LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Irwin is Absent.
LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Jennings is Absent.
LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Willard
WILLARD: Here.
LOPUSZANSKI: Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Call to the Public. Do we have anybody?
LOPUSZANSKI: No, we do not.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. - on the agenda Consideration of and Possible Action for the
Approval of the MMPC Meeting Minutes of January 24, 2023. I do not have any edits for that. Anybody?
GRZYBOWSKI: I move that we Approve the Minutes of January 24, 2023.
WILLARD: Second,
GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor?
ALL: Aye.
GRZYBOWSKI: Any opposed, no. _, which is the Consideration of Possible Action of the
Approval of the March 2, 2023, MMPC Meeting Minutes. Discussion? Does anybody have any
comments or concerns?
GRZYBOWSKI: I move that we approve the March 2, 2023, MMPC Meeting Minutes.
CRAIG: Second.
GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor?
ALL: Aye.
GRZYBOWSKI: Any opposed?
WILLARD: If I may just mention to Patti that since I missed the last meeting it was so helpful to see the
verbatim transcript. Yeah, that was fantastic.
GRZYBOWSKI: So that's why it's important we have to keep our mics on when we talk. Okay. And do
we want to add Sherry to the roll?
LOPUSZANSKI: Yes.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. No worries. We got a hard stop at 1730. Okay, so - on the
agenda is just an Update from the Working Group about the MMPC Expanded Scope. It is nice to see
Rachael here is maybe the last meeting she attends in the near future. So, thanks for being here. But
what we did is we had a working group together me Janice, Steve Nurney, that wanted to talk about,
you know, one of our options to expand the scope of the MMPC and there are a few options, we started
doing some brainstorming, we did not come up with a lot of answers. However, we have a couple of
thoughts, right? Well, we could change the charter of the MMPC to include the Lake Overlook Trail and
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MMPC April 3, 2023, Meeting Rescheduled from March 28, 2023
the botanical gardens. And of course, that would probably mean, we'd have to change the name of the
MMPC. That's one option, we can create a whole new commission and this sunset, the MMPC. That
gives us an option that would be whatever we want to call that new commission and would be related to
the trails and the preserves And that's about as far as we really got talking about. You know, when it
really is a good idea, I think, to try to figure out how to kind of blend all this together, as we discussed in
the past. We always have communication issues between the SCFH, Botanical Gardens, the town, you
know, so if we had a commission that would help, you know, again, set the, you know, the vision of the
trails for the whole town, I think that would be good. So, we'll continue brainstorming. And if we have
anything between now and the next meeting, we'll bring it up. But you know, again, staff, you know, do
you have any thoughts on this is the discussion point.
GOODWIN: I mean, I think this is kind of a long time coming. I think we have talked about it sort of it
has ebbed and flowed. But again, the purpose of this commission and its foundation was building the
trailhead, getting the trailhead, and making the preserve accessible. That has been a big check off the
list. And, you know, I think we have found that there are additional things that are beyond just the
trailhead in there's maintenance, and there are ongoing conversations. But at that point, I think our
other trails are sort of assumed to be part of this, but its really not and there's some confusion and gray
areas So I do think as a long time corning in, I think it's wise to consider how this could work. And then
depending on how the commission wants to proceed, potentially bringing that forward for council further
Council direction.
NURNEY: So, Scott it's my recollection is that another option, maybe you covered, but maybe it's a
slightly different option.
GRZYBOWSKI: We didn't put it in the docket if we did.
NURNEY: But I think we kind of agreed that the concept of a McDowell Mountain preserve commission
is still an ongoing basis and is still a good thing, to just be kind of the watchdog over what goes on with
that land, you know, not necessarily be focused entirely on trails. But, you know, for instance, if some
wealthy developer comes to town and makes an offer that the town can't refuse, should a commission
be involved in at least looking into that offer? On behalf of the whole town, I don't know. But I think
maybe there's a role for the commission to just act as the preserver of the preserve And maybe the
other, whether it's a commission or some other entity takes over the management of the trails, not only
in the Preserve but you know, the Lake Overlook and other trails.
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I made a note of that. So that's good. I wasn't sure if you now have it on...
CRAIG: But, if we would combine involving the Lake Overlook Trail in the desert, a botanical garden,
we could still be that focus, but expand that focus to or extend it to also be a watchdog for those two
pieces or other two pieces of property?
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I mean, my best option, I think, would be to truly change our scope, leave the
MPC as this commission, so wed have to create a new commission sunset one, and we just include
everything in that change the scope and change the charter. I think that's the better approach, we just
have to come up with all the details.
WILLARD: So, I think one of the things we've also talked about on and off and never as it's taken
shape is getting a joint conservancy commission group together and so, to me, this topic in terms of
MMPC scope change, lends itself to at the same time addressing this relationship or symbiotic
relationship or what we want that to look like in the future as we go forward. So, seems like we should
tackle both of those simultaneously.
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GRZYBOWSKI: Agreed, yep. Okay, if there's no further discussion on that, as I said, well working
group will stay together, we'll meet again, and come up with some more ideas on that.
WILLARD: So was there somebody from the conservancy in that group now?
GRZYBOWSKI: Well, so Bill and Janice are on the working group both.
WILLARD: Okay, so you have both hats? Yeah, perfect.
GRZYBOWSKI: All right, so - is Discussion around the Non -Native Plant, specifically the
buffelgrass and on North Leg Trail, right as we know, we finished that North Lake Trail, and we saw a
lot of buffelgrass, some huge clumps of it in certain areas So Bill you know, in the attachments here,
we got some nice pictures of the buffelgrass. Where did you put those attachments, Bill? Okay. Which
kind of talks about what buffelgrass is and the possible ways to eradicate it? As we discussed, I think
before Scottsdale does pesticides. So again, we need to discuss whether we want to take any action.
What do we want to do? Janice and Bill are the experts on this. I mean, I went to training, but...
CRAIG: Essentially, I got all the information I could from Scott Hamilton from Scottsdale and turned it
over to Kevin as the staff member to pursue.
HOLDEN: And I think that was sort of where we ended up because as I said before, we had a group
that was part of the conservancy that addressed this issue for a season. It was a season where there
wasn't much that we found but we did the monitoring of each trail. So, two people were assigned to
each trail we went out a couple of times a year, but it was a very dry season. So, we had nothing to
report, although if I recall Chief Ott, Fire Chief was just not really in favor of it when he came in address
to the group, do you remember that? It was like it the summer was before most of you, not your chief
thought came. We were in some room. Do you remember that? I'm like God, maybe I dreamt it. He was
not particularly in favor and felt it wasn't specifically necessary to pursue. So basically, we didn't. And I
think Kevin must have been in that room. I'm, I'd have to go back. And probably ask Chief Ott, because
I don't remember.
CRAIG: You don't remember? Vaguely?
HOLDEN: It was a couple of years ago, or Pre- COVID in the conference room? Yeah.
WILLARD: I mean, I think, to me as a commission, I'm certainly concerned enough about the
buffalograss because it's, it's not gonna get better by itself. Its gonna get worse by so that I would think
even though I guess we only said discussion and not consideration for possible action. I would think
that the commission, I would be in favor of the commission recommending to the Town that it be
addressed.
GOODWIN: Do you have a suggestion on how to address it?
WILLARD: I think, again, I would defer back to Scott Hamilton, who has done a lot of research in this
and has actually been able to get some grant funding.
GOODWIN: Which we supported. Yes.
WILLARD: And he mentioned that it would be easy to piggyback to us to get some money. But he said
that it was like a 10 to one ratio of effectiveness to user reside rather than they get. But we, I mean, this
commission doesn't have that detailed expertise.
GOODWIN: But sure, yeah. I'm, playing more devil's advocate of the idea that, you know, short of
somebody strapping on an herbicide tank and really climbing the hills. I mean, I don't know that we
have the staff capacity to do that. So, would it be subbed out? Do they, you know, Scott?
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WILLARD: I absolutely. They have completely said that. Gotcha. subcontractors, okay, utilizing the
grant. And the grant requires an in -kind contribution from the city, which is coverable by an equivalent
volunteer. Sure. Gotcha. So yeah, so if I'm not sure, again, from the town who can communicate with
Scottsdale, but it sounds like there are some real opportunities there. But yeah, that's clearly outside
the expertise of our folk.
GRZYBOWSKI: I think we talk about future agenda items, we can talk about it, putting it on for next
time.
NURNEY: Is there some time sensitivity?
GRZYBOWSKI: No, I mean, just like DJ said, it gets...
NURNEY: Multiplied by a factor of 10 every week?
GRZYBOWSKI: I don't know those numbers. But yes, we've had a very rainy season. So, we know
those seedlings, this is not a good year, winds and the winds blowing, you know, so you know, and
again, in very dry seasons, like when they were out doing all, you know, Chrono Zink product cataloging,
there wasn't a lot because it wasn't, it wasn't very wet.
HOLDEN: I also think we'd have to probably look at, you know if we're going to use any kind of
pesticide or herbicide that community surrounding because I know, it's definitely been some concem on
the Scottsdale side. And also, we talked last time, if you pull it, if you do the good deed, and you just go
out tomorrow and pull you're as likely to have all those seeds spread if you don't know what you're
doing. So, it did come up today in the conservancy meeting just prior to this, and it came up there from
that side as well, because they don't want it. They think we may, you know, the question is what should
we do? This is basically the same question that they have asked to bring it up here this evening, then.
But nobody has a concrete answer or a specific response. So, I guess it goes back to the Town, which
is...
GOODWIN: Yeah, as you say, logically the next step is for the commission to make a motion to just
like you were saying, bring it before council as a recommendation or share it we did. They don't
necessarily have to come to a meeting. It can be done via email that, hey, this is an identified problem,
and the Commission recommends action. But what I'm reading here is that it has to be actively
growing. The plant has to be actively growing for the herbicide to be effective. I will tell you; it says you
know the 2% glide phosphate solution. We get a lot of pushback in our community about using
phosphate in other areas Right now, its still legal when we follow it, you know, we follow all the legal
applications and that, but it does have other ramifications. So, there are other factors to be considered
in the discussion, I think you're right to bring that up, Janice. So, the likelihood is, again, we don't, we're
the government, we don't mobilize all that fat that will that quickly. So, understanding that we would
need to go probably find a vendor, and we can totally talk to Scott and figure out whom he's used and
try to, you know, again, join forces, if there's the grant, I don't know what the grant cycle is, and when
that would be available. So, I mean, we're talking if it was, you know, again, if it's multiplying week by
week, we're not going to get ahead of it. Within the next month or two, this is more like a six-month
down -the -road kind of conversation.
WILLARD: And I think that's perfectly acceptable. I think when we talk about the expansion of non-
native invasive species,
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GOODWIN: It's got to be....
WILLARD: A matter of a year before it takes over. So, I don't think there's the urgency other than, you
know, we should get started doing something.
GOODWIN: Great.
HOLDEN: Well, one of the other issues sort of a sign that came up from the conservancy today was
also is it kind of worth educating again, the community that town about the grasses that are potentially
within whatever the footage is, is it worth somehow some note, you know, a letter or some kind of
article and didn't mean a letter, an article in The Fountain Hills times something to communicate, again,
to homeowners where this buffelgrass is growing within I forget what it is 20 feet or whatever, you want
to make sure it's not growing that close to your house because it is a very, very bad fire hazard. So,
again, I don't know who's knowledgeable enough to actually write this up, or whether that's worth it. It's
much more a town issue, I suppose. And it is a commission issue.
GOODWIN: Well, to that end, I mean, we do have our Insider, which is the quarterly publication, I think
that goes out over the summer, we do talk about being Firewise. We talked about pool safety, but we
also talked about fire. So I think that that may be good timing, to at least introduce the concept. And I
mean, I believe that Bo could probably pull something together just based on some of this information.
And we can start there, again, as a public awareness campaign, as we move forward with trying to
educate and then take steps, you know, proactive steps as well.
IRWIN: I just like to make one comment, I see that it looks like the herbicide is obviously the best
solution, but I don't see any information other than noting the tortoises. What is the impact on wildlife of
the herbicide? So, I would like to know that before we make a recommendation. So, I don't know if
Scottsdale had any information on that at all.
CRAIG: No, the information I got from Scott and Paul, whom I don't have his last name, but I sent the
email. No, I sent the email that I received from Scottsdale with the gentleman, Paul, on to Kevin and he
must have taken this information from that email. And I don't know the last name, but I was just trying to
indicate that it's not necessarily just Scott Hamilton, but this other gentleman and I could get that
information or Kevin would have it.
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah. Oh, forget that. Okay, well, that kind of segues right into the next
which is the Sonoran Conservancy Liaison Update.
HOLDEN: We had our host program daily for the past month, well, last month, and we'll run it up until
April 23 on a daily basis, which is, which has been really amazing. One of the questions that did come
up, and I'm sorry, Kevin's not here, but it is a little bit about the parking because parking down the road
and up the road has become an issue and it is the bike lane. I'm not sure well, so the question was,
"Does anything need to be done about that?" But not police so were not going up and down and we
can't tell people well, if you parked in, so it's a little awkward.
CRAIG: Yeah, the last we remember is that the town or the HOA, put the present signs that are there
on the road. And they also put the designation on the road of bike lanes. And we couldn't just have our
last meeting, remember, what is the legal aspect of all of this? Because now we have people parking
on both sides of the road, not just the downside.
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MMPC April 3, 2023, Meeting Rescheduled from March 28, 2023
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, last time I remembered Kevin is not here. So, I'm going to speak for Kevin. But
he said that the town was going to be able to put on the weekends a sign or a cover of the sign that
says park downhill only or something. So, because right now it says no parking.
GOODWIN: I'm wondering if there's a way to adjust that I'm wondering if there's a way to adjust that
where it says, you know, no, parking Monday through Thursday, or nor Saturday, Friday, Saturday,
Sunday, or something? I don't know that base that your stewards have been there on a daily basis?
Are they seeing it every day? Or are they just seeing it on weekends? Obviously, we can. Okay, that's
what I would anticipate. So, in trying to accommodate that I don't know if we can do that. I'd need to talk
with our engineers to see if that's even viable to explore that. So, I don't know where that conversation
was, but I do have a note here to follow up with Kevin about it.
CRAIG: Yes. What is lawful, what is legal here? Is it legal for them to keep those signs up? Do they
have the town's permission to put those no -parking signs that are there?
GRZYBOWSKI: And because that was a question we brought up for Kevin as well as, everywhere
else in the town, these are all multi -use lanes, we don't have any bike symbols. And then next thing,
you know, one weekend, we all go up there we see no parking, no parking bike lane, and nowhere in
town anywhere. And that's a town road. So that was very interesting to see.
NURNEY: Janice when you say it's become an issue, several times cyclists complained or
HOLDEN: No, it's just becoming just a parking issue because people are parking in a bike lane. And
it's not clear what the rule is about parking in a bike lane. And parking on both sides. Right. And it is
both sides. And hosts aren't there to enforce it, obviously. I mean, they're not. But they are, but they are
getting the questions or they're not getting the questions. They're just seeing the parking and
WILLARD: What I recall. I mean, the town I don't know, the individual but was fine was saying, you
know, they've made the judgment that to park on the downhill side is fine. And it's a town road. It's not
an HOA road, so the town can do what it wants. So, I thought this was an issue resolved, except for the
signage.
GRZYBOWSKI: That's what I remembered is that thought it was resolved But there's no signage
about the right.
HOLDEN: At the time, nobody parked on the upper bound side. Correct. And the comment that was
made, then, as I recall was, well, at least it's only on the downhill. And thank goodness, it's not uphill,
because the bikers then have to come out and swerve and so it's it is could be a 10 potential liability.
GOODWIN: Sign improperly than it needs to be. Right.
GRZYBOWSKI: I have an update on SCFA, I went to a board meeting and actually went to one who
tried it.
HOLDEN: And the next board meeting is the first of May. Okay, so thank you for that. It was we're glad
to have anyone attend who's interested enough to show up. And also, thanks to the volunteers that
came to the volunteer appreciation event that we had. It's really nice that everybody gets together. So,
thank you for that. And if anyone wants to come on May 1, just let me know.
IRWIN: I will. At least know the details. Okay, like the location and the time.
HOLDEN: Okay. Can you just email me that you want to come and then I will certainly get that out? No
problem. Thank you. I think that was it. Right, Bill? Anything else?
CRAIG: That's all I can remember.
HOLDEN: Yeah, we spent some time going over our own bylaws, which was long, tedious, but very
interesting. So we'll have to kind of get that done. I think that is that. Thank you.
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GRZYBOWSKI: All right. That brings us to - Review and Discussion on the Trail
Counter Activity. Have you noticed on the one for March, right, the Ridgeline Trail, the Overlook slash
Ridgeline was huge numbers and, you know, so there was actually a little concern and, but he was out
there and did some, some eyeballing and said, Okay, there's a lot of people out here this weekend. So,
he kind of feels that those numbers are good. So, if you notice, March does seem to be our busiest
month, always on all of our activities here. And the trail counters match that as well. Did we ever make
any progress on the real trail counter? Staff? Okay. Yeah, no, no, no worries, no worries. Okay, and
then we go into - Discussion and Possible Action for the Adero Resort Connector to the
Preserve. So, I'll give you a brief background on that, obviously. Well, I should say, obviously, but Bill
Meyers came here to speak to the public at our last meeting. And he gave us some tips on how to
continue that dialogue with all the parties involved. DJ has the document that he provided to us. Right.
You know, we've just kind of said DJ has been a historian because he's been getting all this stuff from
Bill Meyers. But he has some good points. He's got some good talking points and how to continue the
dialogue. You know, so here, we're just here to discuss it. I don't know if there's any action we could
take today. Because I don't have all the details myself. But the Bill has probably the most history on this
potential trail. So why don't you fill us in on what needs to happen?
CRAIG: Well, the real question here is, is this something we want to pursue? As a commission since it
will one of the entities involved is the town there's the developer, there's the HOA, and there are two
HOAs and us the town. It is a trail, a potential trail that would lead up to the dirt road along the wash
that is there. Come along very close to the first set of homes on the right, cross the wash, and go up
where the power lines are. I have not designed anything there yet. But to me, the question is, is that
something that the commission wants to pursue?
WILLARD: So I've had a couple of relatively long conversations with Bill Myers, and kind of my
takeaway is this is for the benefit of the Adero Scottsdale Resort and so if Bill Hines wants to drive this,
and figure out all those properties, permissions, and blah, blah, blah, and he wants to come to the
commission and say, "Would you support a joining trail", then fine, but I see no reason in the world for
us to drive any of this.
IRWIN: Okay, I'll disagree with you guys. So, I would like to offer a compromise and then explain why I
disagree. So, I and my friends will walk, I live in West Ridge Village, and I've got friends in Stone
Canyon who will walk up to the trailhead, we'll do Ridgeline, and we'll walk home. So, it's a good
morning workout for us. And every time we get to the end, Ridgeline we look at the half trail from Adero.
And number one, we want to have breakfast because we smell the bacon. And number two, it's a
shortcut if we're tired, and we don't want to go all the way back around. Why not have it go to the end? I
think if you went from there too, you know, Ridgeline to the end of Ridgeline, rather than go all through
the housing, you wouldn't have any housing impact at all, would you?
WILLARD: Yes. The Sunridge Canyon Homeowners' Association owns a strip of land from the last
house that is right below the Adero Resort, up to the new housing, the first new housing on the right.
And previously, I worked with Bill separate from the trailblazers to build that trail that is there, and then
design something from there up. He went to the Sunridge Canyon HOA a number of times, and they
essentially said we don't like the possibility of liability. Now, as far as I know, Bill Hines has not been to
them with this proposal that Bill Meyers is making.
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MMPC April 3, 2023, Meeting Rescheduled from March 28, 2023
NURNEY: I am reluctant to ask the question again here, Rachel. But where does the town stand on
the possible new park? A possible new park there?
GOODWIN: It is right now the unofficial name because it's an unofficial project the Sunridge Natural
Path slash and or preserve the conversation is evolving. And actually, there's an update tomorrow
evening before the council that the current proposal on the table is to greatly reduce the proposal on
the greatly reduce impact, taking out the shade structures, and ramadas taking out the parking lot,
essentially developing it as foot trails only, and pedestrian access only. So, no parking, no amenities,
very similar to what you experienced when you're in the Preserve not the trailhead, but the actual
Preserve.
GRZYBOWSKI: I see some problems with that.
GOODWIN: So, the conversation and that's where this ultimately goes for me is when as soon as you
say that the Sunridge HOA, they have made it very, very clear that they have zero interest. They have
anti interest in having public accessibility to the Preserve through their property. And I can tell you, from
my perspective, and probably from the benefit of the Town's perspective as a whole, that is a non-
starter because we've had almost two years' worth of conversation with them about this property. And
there's a lot of misinformation. There's a lot of discussion about well, at one point there had been a
conversation about an access trail into a different part of the Preserve. We have since said nope, we
will not pursue that sort of a terminated project. But there's still suspicion and mistrust that will come
back again. So, this will only fuel that conversation.
NURNEY: It's funny because that's why I brought it up because I would rather have us go to bat to
have that access trail made than the one from the resort
WILLARD: As Rachael said, I think it's a non -starter because you have to go through HOA property,
and HOA is going to say no, it's not.
NURNEY: And they're gonna say no to Adero too. So
WILLARD: well, that's why...
GRZYBOWSKI: they've had they've already said no, right? So, there's
WILLARD: more of a chance of the way Bill Myers presented it, much more of a chance that Sunridge
will be okay. But it's Bill Hines's initiative to go to them.
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I think I think DJ brought up a good point if Bill Hines to come here much like
Bill Meyer did, and you know, have a call a public comment or ask to speak on the agenda or make a
presentation that I think we as a commission can, you know, like, oh, okay, that does sound good. You
know, maybe we should bring it forward type of thing. But um, I don't really think we as a commission
should. Amazing.
CRAIG: And in terms of priorities of the work ahead for the trailblazers, depending on what we get
approved from the council, those will be priorities over something coming from Adero Resort
NURNEY: Unless they want to pay for it.
GRZYBOWSKI: I mean, you know, we put it on here just to have a discussion like we did, and we had
a discussion right now, there's no action on our part to be taken. You know, but if DJ knows Bill Hines,
do you know him? Yeah. I mean, next time you see him or if you come across them just bring up again,
like they don't Bill Meyers keep talking with them, but bring up, you know, a possible plan. If he were to
maybe ask them to make a presentation or at least call a public type in front of us, that would be a
better approach.
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WILLARD: And that's, I mean, I had this conversation this morning with Bill Myers. And that was
exactly my advice to Bill Myers you need to go to Bill Hines and ask him if he wants to drive this then
great come to the commission and let's work together but it's not up to us to get his work for
NURNEY: I have an easy solution. He can build a little gondola to go right over the homeowner's
property.
CRAIG: Bill's wife would love that. That was one of her first thoughts.
NURNEY: Oh? Yes.
GRZYBOWSKI: We need a zip line. So, we need a zip line.
NURNEY: Well, we got the power lines. Just put a little thing on there and write it down.
GOODWIN: Sherry, I wanted to follow up on your thoughts because I do think you bring a valid point to
the table of the public service it could provide to, you know, not just to the benefit, of the resort, but that
it would be accessible to everybody. I think one of the biggest, the way I'm looking at is until it meets
the preserve. It's not our decision. And so it would be up to Bill Hines, Bill Meyers, and whoever, to
forge that portion of the trail until they have that portion kind of figured out and approved. When it meets
us, then we can have our portion consideration, but that in between has to be hashed out. And I don't
think it should be the town at the table doing that negotiating.
IRWIN: Yeah, that's a clear demarcation. Yeah, I like it. Yeah. Thanks.
GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Let's bring up let's go to -, which is the Discussion and
Possible Action for Future Agenda Items. So, the one that Bill and I were thinking of is to you, Rachael,
has the staff had an opportunity to review the new trail recommendations that we came up with an
update to the Master Plan?
GOODWIN: Yes. And I know Kevin's been working on those, I don't want to speak at a turn because
he and I have been kind of bopping those back and forth. But yes, the answer is, yes. We've been
looking at them. And then, but I don't know where he was at my question. And maybe this is redundant.
And maybe you guys are going to look at me like I have four heads. But are we ready to move forward
with a council -level discussion on that? Or are they? Is there a timeline involved with that bill? I'm
looking at you.
CRAIG: Is that the only timeline for me? And the building of this would be before next season?
November?
GOODWIN: Okay. So, we have a little bit of lead time on that.
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah. And right now, it's hard to get anything on the agenda. That's yeah, anyway, so
but so I think we have a plan, Bill and I at least have a plan of attack and what we can do, how we can
do some horse trading with the Master Plan and the new trails to kind of even out and so I think we're
ready, we have a plan, we can put that together.
CRAIG: And the question along with that, is how to present that, as Kevin ended up suggesting last
meeting, as present all three of them at the same time. But should at that time, we include the renaming
of the trails also. We're at one point.
GRZYBOWSKI: email approval. So, it's a separate item from the new trails. But we did approve three
names renaming from the last meeting and the minutes. So that's, again to staff to figure out, what's the
best way to get that approved?
GOODWIN: I didn't realize that you guys approved that. That's great. I know it was a long discussion
with a lot of surveys and whatnot involved. So let me find out. I would think if the Council generally
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approved those, it may just be the ability to consent, and it may mean nothing. But I do think it probably
will take some sort of action.
CRAIG: Both those two things or are you talking just the renaming?
GOODWIN: Both? I think both will take action. But to your point are they items one and two or are they
two separate items? Or are they two different nights? Did you have a question, Bill?
CRAIG: No. Whether they could both be on the potential consent list?
GOODWIN: I think renaming is pretty easy I think the trail approval they may want to have a little more
discussion with that's just my sense. And that's just what I suspect. Especially because this particular
Council hasn't had much involvement in this process. So, it's new to them. So, I have a feeling they
would like to understand it a little bit would be my guess. Yeah.
GRZYBOWSKI: I don't know if it's a Future Agenda Item, but it's an opportunity to ask a question.
Kevin is out here though.
GOODWIN: Darn you, Kevin.
GRZYBOWSKI: Are the cameras ever coming in for the ACT? Are we ever getting the camera?
GOODWIN: The cameras I can tell you? We have had cameras on order since October. And not just
for the AC T but for other parks and other facilities and there is a significant issue. It's leading to a
bigger conversation that is beyond just this location. But if they can't provide the product, we need to
find an alternative is the bottom line. So, it's a bigger conversation than that. So, they're on order and I
feel like that's been like sort of this ongoing answer, but unfortunately, that seems to be the way.
GRZYBOWSKI: Any other future agenda items for the next meeting?
IRWIN: So, what did we decide on the trail naming and the new trails?
GOODWIN: The answer is I need to find out where Kevin's at with if he's done any vetting if there are
any concerns, particularly about the trails themselves, the trail naming we just need to get in front of
Council, and I need to find out if we can do it on consent or if we need to put it on as a regular item. So,
the answer is both of those will go before Council I'd like to get them both done ideally before that
council break takes their summer break.
GRZYBOWSKI: Yes. We were hoping right before the summer break.
GOODWIN: Yeah. So that would be my goal.
WILLARD: And I think we still have our trail work group Bill and I so that if Kevin has any questions or
issues, he could address them to us and not wait till the next meeting. Oh, great. trails.
GRZYBOWSKI: All right, that's great timing. Then I move to adjourn the meeting. Do I have a second?
CRAIG: Second?
NURNEY: Third.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. We are adjourned. Wow. 45 minutes.
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