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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023.1116.TCWS.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE WORK SESSION OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL NOVEMBER 16, 2023 A Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 3:02 p.m. Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Absent: Councilmember Allen Skillicorn Attended telephonically: Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall Staff Absent: Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson Audience: Approximately twenty-seven members of the public were present. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION Post -Production File Town of Fountain Hills Town Council Work Session November 16, 2023 Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Page 1 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAYOR DICKEY: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you so much for coming to our work study session. We're talking about streets, all streets. Could we get a roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor. Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Here. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Present. MENDENHALL: And Councilmember Skillicorn is supposed to be absent, but are you on the phone; just in case? MENDENHALL: No. Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We are going to kick it off with Justin Weldy, our director. He's going to give us kind of, like, a brief overview and introduce our guests and then we'll discuss. Thank you. WELDY: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We appreciate the time that you're taking out to have this important discussion, not only with the town manager, but staff, and allow us an opportunity to seek a little bit more direction on how we'll be moving forward in the future regarding funding for pavement management and maintenance. I've put together just a short PowerPoint. We have a second one that will be shared from a representative of Roadway Asset Services, Mark Kramer. He's sitting beside me here -- or behind me on the left, and I'll Page 2 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION introduce him a little bit more officially as we move forward. Since this is a work session, we can certainly pause and ask and answer as many questions as possible. So as I move through this, please feel free to ask any questions. I would also like to note that we have several members of the Citizen Streets Advisory Committee [sic] here, and if you'll recall, they presented a plan to the mayor and council prior to the summer break, and I'm certain that one or more of them would be willing to ask questions should you have questions of them as well. This is the basic in regards to pavement management. I include this in the majority of the PowerPoints when we are discussing pavement maintenance and management, because these are the fundamentals that guide us and the principles that we use. This, right here, is a payment lifecycle based on the last 10 or 12-plus years in the town. Based on the performance and the level of service that we received, subject to change should things become different with the weather patterns. So for instance, since we do not have thaw -freeze cycles, what we do have are storm events, and the very intense rapid storm events have a tendency to run off quicker, sneak into a few of those little cracks. The long and slow drizzles have a much more detrimental impact on the roads that we have with some of the block cracking and gator cracking. So this is kind of an adjustable, but this is based on the last decade and a half of performance. This, right here, is all the way back to 2010. As you will see, the top one shows the highway user revenue funding that we received. The next one is going to remain blank until the second sheet. That is the vehicle license tax. The next one is the 0.2 percent TPT tax. You'II see that that first appears -- excuse me. Let me back up. The vehicle license tax actually starts being collected and expended in 2014. There is a resolution attached to the adoption of allocating that funding. The next one is the 0.2 percent TPT. That one will come in on the next one -- slide, and then you'll see the transfers, any grants we may have received, and bonds which is important. You'II see in FY15, that is when we did Saguaro. So that funding was included in the budget. And then, on the bottom, you will see the revenues. The next column down for that shows what went for maintenance and repair. The Page 3 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION capital projects and the total expenditure for each of those fiscal years for maintenance and repair and the capital projects associated with paving. Any questions on this first sheet? It's a lot of information. MAYOR DICKEY: Just to point out, when the VLT and the TPT -- no, not the TPT, but the other one. There was a time when the state was, for lack of a better word, taking that money. And then they reinstated giving it back to us. And was that the year, then, that that started in again, 2014? WELDY: Just before that and also during this time frame and not much reflective on us as it is larger municipalities that get HURF funding. The state was rating the highway user transportation funding for public safety use. MAYOR DICKEY: Right. Public safety. And then they stopped, and so we had a little bit of it back. WELDY: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. MCMAHON: I have a question. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilwoman. MCMAHON: You have grants listed there. WELDY: Yes, ma'am. MCMAHON: I only see it, like, rarely. In the future, do you anticipate getting annual grants, or do you know? WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, we take every opportunity we have to apply for grants that we are eligible for. So absolutely, if a grant comes available and we and we meet the criteria for that, we will first discuss it with the town manager and then, depending on the timing, come to the mayor and council, share the details and ask for permission to apply for it. More often than not, grants require a commitment from the elected body. MCMAHON: Thank you. WELDY: This next sheet, you'll see that in 2017 through resolution is when the TPT began or was added to the budget for streets. You'll also -- Page 4 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION Thank you, sir. You'll also note that some of the numbers in here are a little bit larger. The reason for that is we slow down on some of the maintenance we were doing based on direction from the mayor and council, saved up a couple of years, and then picked a section and did what we previously had not done, which was complete that section. In this case, primarily, it was a northeast side of town, and we spent two years doing that. We also, every other year, are able to ask for the unspent funding from the year previous to add to our budget after the audit is done. So those numbers are reflected on this sheet as well. MAYOR DICKEY: I'd like to say something about this sheet. So there's a lot of stuff on social media and being said out loud, like at our last retreat, that I have -- I and everybody that voted with me, have been purposely underfunding streets for the last five years, which is basically to line it up when I was mayor. So the accusation was that I was purposely underfunding streets. And I think -- and I thank you for putting this together and going back far enough so that we can see that we have not been underfunding streets. And in fact, in 2021, the town received -- since 2021, over $11 million, federal funds, different care relief packages. And we had two distributions. They had different names, ARPA and everything, but $2 million CARES Act funding, 8.4 million of ARPA funding, which adds up to $10.4 million, was allocated to streets by this council by -- sorry, the previous council and members who are up here who were on that previous council, who had the foresight to put that money towards streets. So we have not been underfunding streets in the last three, four, five years. Thank you. WELDY: Any questions related to this sheet? This right here the town engineer put together to basically describe the level of funding necessary to maintain a certain level of service. I'll refer to the pavement condition index as a level of service. The pavement condition index is just one of numerous factors that we use when selecting streets for the different types of treatment and maintenance. As you can see, to maintain the status quo, we're just going to have to add $1.1 million just to stay where we're at, which allows our backlog -- those are the Page 5 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION roads that fall off of the radar and require complete reconstruction to increase substantially. To maintain a target backlog and continue with our maintenance is going to require about 3.2. Keep in mind, we do have an inflationary factor included in these numbers. It's very, very difficult in today's market to determine exact cost. And oftentimes the numbers that are shown on contracts versus invoicing are also different. I would like to note, for the past at least decade, the contract numbers and the invoice is different -- invoice numbers differed greatly in our favor. We paid below contract unit price, which is a benefit to this community. It allows us to do more work with the limited funding we have. Any questions about this technical sheet here? Because we're going to be getting into some real technical stuff before you know it. MAYOR DICKEY: I think I'll probably have to ask this later because I think when we talk about the what we said was 5 million, but now is 5,750, which I understand, and we also have to talk about that 15 percent administrative costs for other items, which I don't like the word administrative because it's not really that, but that -- WELDY: Other expenses. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Other expenses. But I have just a big general question about this, the 50 -- so say, let's just -- we were talking about 5 million before, so 5.7 million. Do that per year, and then later, when we just discuss it, we can say, what does that do to the immediate needs? Because I think that's -- I'm trying to hone down on the difference between what we heard from the citizens committee about what we can do now, the effects of that, and then how we can get to the point where maintenance will actually work, and what do we have to do before that. I guess, I'm still a little confused about if we get to the five million, we still have a big chunk of repairs to do or replacement to do before we would ever get to that point. Is that right? WELDY: Madam Mayor, it's a blend of the questions that you summarized in there. So the $5 million includes taking care of some of those issues and controlling the backlog. So the backlog doesn't get any better. We don't lose any more streets, but somewhere Page 6 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION in that progression, we're going to need a little bit more money to take care of some of the other stuff that's a little bit older. So we're maintaining the status quo to some extent, but we're also, each year, doing a little bit better and providing a higher level of service in regards to the condition of the roads. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And the other differences, whether we're talking about thresholds versus percentages, because then that's sort of what people that live here are going to be focusing on their streets or the streets that they use and the percentage. And we talked about how that can be a little skewed based on the fact that Saguaro's brand new, or we do something to Shea or something, where they kind of skew the PCI percentages. So we will talk about that, I'm sure. WELDY: And Madam Mayor, if you'll allow me a minute. So our overall PCI rating, which is pretty good, and I've said this numerous times in the past, includes Shea, which is relatively new from limit to limit -- the Scottsdale limit to the County limit and paid for with other funding, not out of our general fund, but a reimbursement process. Also Saguaro, Grande, El Pueblo, and Glenbrook. And the reason I mention those, they're long and wide, they are relatively new and in really good shape. When you take the overall square yardage and you add those areas, it drives that number up. But it doesn't take away from the fact that some of our collectors and a lot of our local roads are in very poor condition, and that is what affects the individual homeowner. But keep this in mind. Everything that is either delivered to our home or that we take from our home, including ourselves, our children, or our family requires us to travel either on arterials, collectors, or local roads. So it impacts us in one way or another, whether it's getting children to and from school, commodities to and from the grocery store or our home, or simply loading the family up to go to dinner. We utilize all of the classifications which are arterial, collector, and local. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. FRIEDEL: This might not be a question for you. It might be a question for David Pock. Page 7 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION But I'm wondering, I made a suggestion some time ago about the VLT tax and the sweep that we do at the end of the year. If we could take a look at those percentages and see what kind of an impact that would have on this chart as far as getting additional funds on a yearly basis into streets. By my estimate, it'd be 1 to $2 million more a year if we played with those percentages a little bit. And maybe there's a scenario we can look at to help us beef up the streets fund on top of what we're doing now. So I don't know if that's something we can take a look at to see if that's a major impact on this or not. But certainly, if we got another a million or two million a year into streets, I think it would help us catch up on some of that backlog a little bit. WELDY: Mayor and councilmembers, we can definitely take a look at that. And there is a split of the VLT taxes, vehicle license tax, between general fund and streets. I don't have those numbers with me right now. But next Tuesday, we will also be talking about the year-end transfers that you mentioned, as far as where that that goes. FRIEDEL: I saw that and that's why I brought that up. So that maybe we can take a look at that and see if it makes some sense to take a look at it. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: David, that would be taken out of the general fund, though, correct? WELDY: Correct. MAYOR DICKEY: And unless we had a carryover somehow, like this year because the CARES and all that, but it's still kind of trying to find the extra three million a year out of the general fund. WELDY: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. WELDY: Any additional questions related to this slide? MCMAHON: The backlog, I mean, to me, in reading this particular report, is the biggest problem in keeping up? And in planning this, I guess, in using -- you have an idea of the backlog and how it's going to accumulate so that given the road repair choices, you're going to keep up with that so it doesn't get worse. Am I making sense, or you know? WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, so we certainly address the backlog to the Page 8of44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION best of our ability with the funding available. Right now, we have to make some pretty difficult choices. And so we allow a, for lack of a better description, a software to pick those roads for us based on the data input and the data collected. Otherwise, if you just pick one section based on visual, and there are some municipalities that do that, there's a lot of questions in regards to, well, why should we take your word for it? Well, the reason is, is because I have a little background in it, but more importantly, we're trying to do what's right. So the backlog right now is going to continue to grow because we simply don't have the funding. But this year and next year, we are taking a relatively decent -sized bite out of some of that backlog. So that number will decrease slightly. But if we don't act quickly, those that are right at the tipping point will fall below that threshold, and they'll be in the unsalvageable. MCMAHON: Then I have a question. In listening to your answer, et cetera, is there a way, or are you already doing this, that every year-end budget, and the money received for streets, do you set aside a certain portion or you just use, like, what you just said to balance that? WELDY: There is a allocated funding. So it's all dependent on what we get from the state and what's contributed from the vehicle license tax and the TPT and any transfers that we ask for. All of that is dedicated to paving the staff and other stuff is in a different category. So paving has its own category. Is that an answer to your question? Maybe? WELDY: I know that. But I guess what I'm asking is, when you receive the funds is a certain amount or percentage dedicated to the backlog, or is that just automatically included based on the reports and the roads you're selecting? WELDY: Automatically included. Let me better answer that question. It's automatically included. MCMAHON: Thank you. WELDY: Fortunately, we were right there at the end, and we have a second PowerPoint coming up. So let me see if we can get Mark's loaded up here. Page 9 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION I would like to introduce Mark Kramer. He's going to be representing Roadway Asset Services. He was one of the key members included in the data collection and deciphering all of that and putting all that -- crunching it and putting it into the reports, PowerPoints, and presentations. And so he's going to share some of that. And now we're going to be getting into the real technical stuff that describes where we've been, where we're going, and what we really need to maintain certain levels of service. Thank you, Mark. KRAMER: Mayor and council. Mark Kramer, chief data officer with Roadway Asset Services. Glad to be here today. As Justin said, I'm going to kind of walk you guys through the analysis that we did, the data collection, and some of the -- actually, the dialogue that's been happening here about how selections are made and how that logic works. So here we go. All right. So let's just hit terminology. We've done some of this already, so I'll try to pass over those. But centerline miles of roads; you guys have 166 linear miles of paved road. Sometimes it's a little bit hard to visualize three -and -a -half million square yards or 166 centerline miles. It's a two lane road from here to Las Vegas. So that's the quantity of pavement that you have within the boundary of Fountain Hills. Yeah, it's a little different when you think of it that way, right? It's a lot of roads. It's a big asset. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah. We all need a minute to digest. KRAMER: Yeah, just like, whoa. GRZYBOWSKI: It's really far. KRAMER: Yeah. So here's another eye popper. $214 million is the estimated cost if you were to just replace all the black stuff in Fountain Hills. So it's a very valuable asset. It takes a lot to maintain and take care of. Justin's talked a little bit about pavement condition index, but it's 0 to 100 index. 100 is great; 0 is bad. And then preservation. We're going to talk a little bit about preservation versus backlog or reconstruction. So preservation is your PM work, low cost per square yard, extending the life of the pavement, much like oil change or service Page 10 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION on your vehicle. Same idea. And then ASTM 6433, we'll mention that a couple of times. It's just a national standard. It's the one that we use to rate roads. It ensures that when we're talking about these indices for Fountain Hills versus another community across the country, that it's consistent and it's similar numbers. All right. So purpose of pavement management, of course, to extend the life of the asset and the investment that you've made. The goal is to spend small dollars per square yard early in the life cycle and the age of the pavement, so that you can extend the life of that pavement, get as much length and time out of it as you can. Of course, it is a life cycle, so at some point it begins to age to the point where you really don't have any preservation options left, and you're going to begin to go down the road of reconstruction and planning. And that and that's really managing the backlog that we've been discussing. All right. So how did we get here? Very sophisticated piece of equipment, RAS. We own four of these. We had one of these out here in Fountain Hills. So on the backend of that guy there, the big lasers hanging out back takes 4,000 points of data left to right. And it does that five millimeters on center down the road. So a little over a billion points of data per mile. We literally map out the cracking in the roads and then we move that into the ASTM standard in order to identify the types of cracking, severity of cracking, in order to arrive at that score. It's important because, as Justin was saying, some types of cracking indicate different problems than others. And so that gets accounted for in that collection. We take images of the roadway. We've delivered all of those to the town. Our primary purpose for having those is to quality check the data so that we can be sure it's accurate. We then take all that information -- here at Roadway Asset Services, we've developed a piece of software that we call Road TRIP. It integrates all of those images, all that laser data, all the computations. It's our QC tool and our review tool. It puts out the information that is basically the foundation of the analysis that we're going to talk about. Page 11 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION An important part of this whole process is to ensure that what we're doing with all the equipment and the processing really matches up with real -world reality. So we had a team come out here to Fountain Hills. We walked roads with Justin and his team, verified that what we were seeing in the road with our eyeballs is the same thing that was coming out of the machine. Got ahead in my points a little bit. All right. So snapshot, pavement condition results. And so we we put all this into a map because it's the most intuitive way to get information out on this kind of scale. On the left there, you can see the town and the condition results at macro scale, and then it is delivered electronically, so you can zoom in to any road or neighborhood that you'd like to look at. As you look at this map, you can pretty clearly see that there are definitely some geographic and spatial trends to where conditions exist. And that has a little bit to do with how the town was developed and built. All right. So we talked a lot about your distribution graph. I'll be working on this some more in future slides here. But some key indices: network average PCI. So Fountain Hills has a network average PCI of 69. As we do these analysis across the country, 60 to 70 is a very common band to be in. We rarely see anything over 75. We rarely see anything under 50. So just kind of give you some ballpark scales there. But when we look at distribution, we really like to look at what percentage of roads are over here in the excellent category, because that indicates that you have some active maintenance going on. It can also indicate that you've acquired some new roads, either new construction or sharing with other communities or so on. So you've got to weigh that into that number. And then backlog; we've been talking a whole bunch about that. Backlog is essentially anything under 40. And these are the roads that you're either needing to put a new surface reconstruction on or both surface and base, so full reconstruction. And right now, you're sitting at about about five -and -a -half percent, which is a pretty healthy place to be. We're going to talk about that some more, though, because it's really what's coming. That's really the problem. When your backlog is -- we'd like to say Page 12 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION healthy is under ten. When you get between 10 and 15, you have some significant financial planning and challenges coming. When you get to 20, my experience has been there's really about no way out but bonding or some sort of really significant cash influx that goes into it. So pre -incorporation roads and post -incorporation roads, or asphalt roads, as we've called them in the report. Fountain Hills is very unique for me as an engineer because it's a really different challenge. You have a bunch of roads that have been built to a different construction standard than your current. And they're aging differently and they're older and they're needing a whole lot more attention. So that's what this chart shows. The the blue ones there are your pre -incorporations, so about a third or so of your network. And then you can see spatially how they lay out in the map. This is a slide deck that we don't normally prepare because it's unique to Fountain Hills. And this is really where your focus is at. The right side of that graph distribution is, like, textbook where you want to be for pavement management. You've got a good bit of excellent roads, you've got a good bit of good roads, you're in a good place to be proactive and maintain those roads. The left graph is just the opposite. And these are your pre -incorporation roads. They've aged, they've deteriorated, and right now, about 14 percent of those are in the backlog stage. 14 percent of the pre -incorporations, just to be clear there. And then in my mind, even more concerning really is this 51 percent that's in the marginal and fair because these are the things that are coming at you in the next five -plus years, some of them sooner than later, and that's the backlog that you're really challenged to keep up with. MAYOR DICKEY: Can you remind me what the percentage of pre -incorporation is of the whole? KRAMER: I think back here. I don't know the exact number there, but 34 percent. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KRAMER: Yeah. You bet. So we have a great baseline in condition data that allows us Page 13 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION to then do some financial forecasting into the future: what can we do with this money, and how do we most optimally spend it? So we spent some time with the streets team, coming up and looking at your past contracts, coming up with unit rates, and then building basically a treatment strategy for both your pre -incorporation roads which have different treatment needs and reconstruction needs than your paved roads that were built to the current standard. So we came up with unit rates, we came up with a strategy for how to best pick those, and then we went into a five-year modeling and forecasting process. And so this is a -- how do you pick these roads? We just had this dialogue about this, and it gets a little overwhelming. But at the end of the day, you got two things you're really trying to do. Prioritization; what rank order do I select my roads? There are many different ways to do that. And then financial optimization, which is really more about how do I get the best bang for the buck of what I'm spending. So at RAS, we like to use a process that we call cost of deferral. I'm getting ahead of myself one slide, but -- so prioritization; we take these factors into play. What's critical and we look at that year -by -year, what's critical this year. And the simplest definition of critical is, if I don't do it this year, it's going to cost more next year. So there are certain roads out there, you can let them ride for a year, let them ride for two years; they're going to cost the same next year. There's other roads that are right on the bubble. You don't do them this year; you're going to pay more next year. So those are critical ones. We bring those forward. Traffic and classifications. Of course, arterial roads get more traffic and more use by the community. So if there's a tie breaker to be had in critical roads, we'll go with the highest classification road. Pavement type. Again, your pre -incorporation is a different pavement type. And then, PCI and condition. All right. So let's put a picture to this. These are your different categories of roads. A typical road will live in each one of these categories for about five to seven years before they age into the next one. As you can see, the maintenance increases in cost. So you've got relatively low-cost preservation when it's new and then it starts to increase. Some Page 14 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION increases are bigger or smaller than others. And then, this little band right here is what I was just talking about is critical. So these are the roads. Let's just pick -- well, let's pick this poor group right here. So you have a whole bunch of roads that are in here, but there's a certain selection of them that if you don't take care of them this year, it's going to cost you an additional $22 to do the next year. By the way, the rates in here are just a sample rates. So we did actual rates in the analysis and put those together, but I'm using these for demonstration. So when we're prioritizing roads, the highest cost of deferral, right here, $22. And that group of critical roads are the first ones to go. The next highest rate of deferring costs was this $16 and it goes up here. That's the second. And then we'll hop back and do some some preservation work because that's the next cost here. And so we're actually looking at the best bang for the buck on critical roads, putting those in ranked order to make sure -- and there's a really important thing here for Fountain Hills is, yes, we want to take care of backlog, but we don't want to do it at the cost of doing preventative maintenance on your good roads, making sure that you still take care of those at their low costs before we dump all the money into the backlog. And so we've balanced those two decisions as we've put this together. Yes, sir. FRIEDEL: Question for you. So 34 percent of our roads are pre -incorporated roads. Do we know what percentage of those roads, that 34 percent, is critical? KRAMER: I don't know it standing here, but we have the information to answer the question. Yeah. And it will vary each year depending on your funding levels and how many of them you can take care of, and then how many age into the next year. So the answer to that question will vary based on level of funding, but we can answer it at any level asked. Yeah. So that's kind of the very detailed look at prioritizing roads. This is going to zoom out and talk about if we had a big, fat check and we could just do it all today. Where are your needs at, and how much of the need is is driven by what? And this is where it really, really hits home. Your pre -incorporation roads are 34 percent of your network. It is 77 percent of your fix -all costs. So a lot of dollars going towards that small set of Page 15 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION roads. And if you keep going with that, it's 75 percent is -- I'm sorry. 70, hang on a minute. 77 percent fix -all for your pre -incorporations and are all recons. Sorry I got mixed up on that. So your segment cost, though. This is the number that caught my eye when I first looked at this. $48 million of your $64 million, big, huge check, is all in the full -depth recon for pre -incorporation roads. It is a big draw on the overall need. MAYOR DICKEY: The top one is the only strictly maintenance, surface preservation; so for the 1.5 million. Is the only thing that doesn't really -- isn't really repairing something. It's just preserving something. KRAMER: Just preserving, right. That's your surface preservation. You're putting on some of your newest roads in order to, essentially, protect them from the sun and keep them from becoming brittle. And then, also sealing them to keep the water from penetrating the surface and into the base. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. KRAMER: Okay. So we take this logic that we were just talking about and we run about 10 to 12 different scenarios at varying budgets so that we can get a relationship between network improvement or degradation and backlog growing or shrinking at different budgets. So this bottom left corner right here represents your current status. So this is the $8 million CARES Fund, the $2.5 million of your current budget. So you see a spike in there in the first couple of years. That's that shot of CARES funding coming in and boosting up some work and then it starts to deteriorate down as it ages out. And this graph over here kind of lays out the trend. We always do some basics, you know. Do nothing -- what happens if you don't spend any money? What if you spend a whole bunch of money? The green here is your current and then some target -- like, a target backlog. If we want to keep you in a healthy state of eight percent, this is what your trend of condition looks like over that time at that budget. MAYOR DICKEY: So again, because this is kind of from the same question I asked in the beginning, these different scenarios are the yearly -- what we would put in a budget yearly? Page 16 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION KRAMER: Correct. MAYOR DICKEY: But it doesn't take care of the $48 million thing that you just showed us? KRAMER: Correct. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. KRAMER: Yeah. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. KRAMER: So I like to call this the what -if graph. What if we increase funding? What if we decrease funding? And answers a lot of questions? It's basically a profile that correlates, in this case, the PCI after five years at different funding levels. All of these assume the CARES funding in the first two years, just so that we're on the same page there. So at your current budget, you're here, you're on target for a PCI of 67, dropping 2 points and 15 percent backlog. Keep in mind that 15 percent, you really to be healthy, you want to be under 10, preferably 8, if you can. Steady state, so if you ask the question is on a network average, if we wanted to keep the same level of service, you know, you're looking at about $3.2 million annually. We saw that in Justin's slide. But be mindful that PCI doesn't tell the whole story because it's also letting some of those bad roads continue to be bad, and it's growing up to 15 percent. So you have 15 percent of your network that requires a surface recon or full recon. So you really need to watch both factors in order to have a good, healthy network. So the target backlog budget. $5 million budget would produce 72 PCI. So you get a slightly better improvement in performance overall in the network. But the real win is getting your backlog maintained at eight percent at the end of five years, and you're still in a financially winnable position to keep moving into the future and continue to improve. So this graph has a sister graph, which is the backlog trend. So how does backlog trend over time with budget? And of course, it goes down, and I read off a good bit of the numbers, but your current budget, of course, 15 percent. Here's that backlog target of Page 17 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION eight percent. If you wanted to know, hey, I really want to knock this all out, get down to five percent, get rid of backlog in the community or majority of it, you're looking at about a $6.5 million annual budget. To help you out comparatively, usually when we're working with communities and we see under five percent, you got backlog right where you want it, when you when you get to that place. When you're between five and eight, you got some work to do. When you get five and below, you've really kind of got your funding level steady state and your crews' understanding. That's a big challenge here, and it's a big challenge for lots of communities that we work with. MAYOR DICKEY: So we have the five million a year or something, and we try to fix what really needs to be fixed right now, so whether it's 48 million or whatever it is. When you have an eight percent backlog and that's manageable, that means, though, every year, do you have to put in another amount of money to fix the streets that are in the backlog? So if we had five million a year, we're like this all the time, right? But there's still an eight million that you don't want to get to the very poor or any of those categories. So does that mean every year or every two years, you'd be up here with a budget saying, okay, but -- you know, here's our five million, but we have to do X, Y, Z Street? KRAMER: Yeah. So at this level -- let's take the target funding of eight percent backlog. You can tell by the graph right, that you have sufficient flat budget that you're continuing to improve and make headway on reducing your backlog. So over time, you'll continue to lower your backlog. But do you still have backlog present in the community and will you still, say, receive complaints from folks who live on those roads or have to drive on those roads? It's absolutely still there. It has not -- there's still a chunk of your community that's in backlog. MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). KRAMER: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, I think, like anything that runs on the budget, right? You oftentimes can't afford to do it all. So you've got to find a -- oftentimes, a council is looking at adopting a policy that says, we're going to have PCI here and we're going to maintain a backlog here so that we're financially healthy. But there's a lot of Page 18 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION competing dollars for other services that a community provides that you're having to weigh out. And they're -- right? Whether it's shades in the park or public safety or whatever, there's a whole bunch of things that that money can go to. You bet. Right. And that brings me to my question slide. You bet. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. WELDY: Thank you, Mark. KRAMER: You bet. WELDY: Well, it's really big numbers and a lot of data there. Clearly, a lot more questions. And we'll certainly do our best to answer them. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. WELDY: We have our chief financial officer here, Mr. Pock, and he had some special guests that are also going to share some information in regards to possible funding options. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. POCK: All right. Good evening, Mayor, council. We actually do have two people here that we thought might be helpful for this discussion as far as possibilities of funding streets repair. The first is Jim Stricklin. He works with Columbia Capital. He's one of their managing directors. He acts as a municipal advisor for many different municipalities, including the one that I used to work for in Gilbert. Municipal advisors do have a fiduciary responsibility to their clients. They're not making a commission on anything. They're not rewarded in some fashion by getting communities to bond for certain issues. So he's here to answer all your questions as far as what options are available the different types of financing available for these types of issues and, they'll be here for that. We also have Zach Sakas. He works with Greenberg Traurig. He's a shareholder and is basically a bond counsel to answer all of the legal -type questions, different restrictions, limits that we would have depending on what the council decides to do. Page 19 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION So right on cue, they've taken their spots. Yeah. So basically, I guess just have a panel type discussion at this point. Any questions that you might have for them? MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. POCK: We've got the experts. MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Just some basic questions, which maybe Linda would help with, too, is if we were to go for a bond to do some of the repairs and to get us in the position of having that maintenance of five million, when would we have to have language ready to go? When would the election be? And I don't know if that -- that probably is Linda's wheelhouse. MENDENHALL: So first off, the County would give me the 210-day notice, and then I have until, let's see, May 9th to let him know. But before that, we have to do a call of an election. So we would need to do that at least by our May 7th meeting. We could possibly need to do it sooner than that based upon the type of resolution that the county wants. We would have to have our ballot language to me by June 13th. I have a nice listing table here. I also have a timeline slide, but it doesn't go into when I need ballot language and so forth from staff. And then we have we have to do two publicity pamphlets. There's a lot of things that we need to do. So for me, the sooner we know, the better so we can prepare because once we call the election, there's things that we're limited that we can do. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. And part of -- and I don't know whether whether you are in the position to answer these questions, but some of the stuff that we talked about had to do with breaking it up. So we just went through a bond election here. There was a lot of misunderstanding about when you get authority, does that mean that you do it right away or other municipalities that might break their questions up. So like arterials versus collectors or and -- I don't know, you probably don't want to give that kind of advice, but like the the success rates of doing things like that. So yeah, whatever you have, we're happy to hear. STRICKLIN: I'II try to talk loud. Jim Stricklin, of Columbia Capital. Every community is different as to how they approach that. Some communities have a policy that they Page 20 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION don't want to have any general election on it; others, that's the only way they want to go about financing a lot of their public infrastructure. Thank you. I worked with the town in 2011, when you went for 26 million, and that didn't pass, and you came back and had 8.2, and that did pass. I think it's a very interesting question about breaking it up. A number of communities do break things into individual questions. Greenberg Traurig and Columbia just worked together in Surprise on $100 million, some for for roads, and some for public safety. So that's how they broke it up. But it would probably make a lot of sense in this community to have, I believe, four questions. You've broken up, what I've seen, is that there are four different line items of what you would ask the voters to approve, depending upon what it is, how much. The challenge becomes projecting debt repayment because if you had all four paths, do you have one on top of the other? If you have two paths, are they repaid in 5 to 10 years instead of over 20 years? Those kinds of things all have to be taken into account. In the publicity pamphlet, when you do projections, you're going to want to explain each of the questions in detail and what it is that you're trying to accomplish. And I'll let your lawyer talk to you about the questions and how broad they might be versus the publicity pamphlet where you have a lot more specific information. And those are the kinds of commitments that you make to the public, what's in that publicity pamphlet. And most every community works very hard to maintain those commitments within the publicity pamphlet. MAYOR DICKEY: Before you move on, is there an advantage percentage -wise or -- so we know, if we go out longer, obviously future folks help pay the bond, but the interest is higher. But is there a difference in the interest or the benefit to the community if they're all done at once, 40 million, whatever it is, or if there's four $10 million ones; do we get a better deal or whatever? STRICKLIN: Madam Mayor, members of the council, that is going to depend on your targeted tax rate. So for example, in Surprise, they have an existing $0.38 tax rate. Page 21 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION They're going to add debt as their values go up, they're going to add debt, but not increase that $0.38. So back in 2013, I think your target was $0.50. And so it's going to depend on what your target tax rate is and what happens to your assessed values. So your assessed values today, versus 2013 are double what they were then. So you know, that was a five -and - a -half -year repayment. So it's going to be -- so what we do is we do projections out, maintaining a particular tax rate. And then once those bonds are paid down or your AV grows, then you have more debt that you would borrow into the future. In terms of individual bond sale, you're limited by federal law to whatever you can expend within a three-year time period. So that's how we size a deal. The biggest that you would have would be what you can reasonably expect to expend within three years. So you may have a 10-year bonding program or a 15-year bonding program, and you're doing it in three-year increments. Depending upon where interest rates are, you may not borrow all three years' worth. You may borrow one year's worth. At the beginning of the construction process, you may be spending more money on plans and other things that are not hard dollar costs of construction that come later. So at the beginning of the process, you may be borrowing a much smaller amount. And depending upon how quickly you pay that, how quickly your bills start coming in, then you're going to determine what you want in terms of the size of the issue. And all of those things are under council purview. So if you have an authorization for $50 million, we're not going to go out and borrow $50 million. You're going to decide when you sell that. So in 2013, you had an election. You didn't sell until December of 2014. Most communities sell right away and you waited. You spent a lot of time reducing the project costs down. You eliminated excess items within that. You made commitments to voters that you wouldn't spend any more money except exactly what you said you were going to spend it on, and you did that. You didn't put in sidewalks or other things because you had excess capacity. You were able to build what you said with less overall bonding than you asked for. Page 22 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAYOR DICKEY: So we are debt free right now. We've had bonds in the past for, of course, Saguaro Community Center, town hall, things like that, the preserve. But at this point, we don't have any. Does that affect our ability to get a good rate? Does that make us in a pretty good position? STRICKLIN: Madam Mayor, members of the council, currently, because you don't have any debt, you don't have an existing bond rating. So one of the things that you would have to do, no matter what type of bond you sell, if you sell it to the public, you're going to talk to the ratings agencies about what they would rate your debt at. So they're going to look at various factors. They're going to look at your budgets, three years of financials; they're going to look at the management; they're going to look at the community; they're going to look at how much debt you're asking to borrow, what that is in relation to the population. They're going to look at other factors, the wealth of the community, a number of different things. And that that can be a little bit of a longer process on an initial bond sale if you sell publicly. So if you had an authorization for general obligation bonds, you can sell them competitively bid, which is what you typically had done in the past, or you can pick underwriters and and have them underwrite the bond issue. Those would both be sold to the public and/or you could do, depending upon the duration -- many communities that are not active in the bond market, that are not currently required to report to one of the central repositories information annually for the benefit of the secondary market. You could do a direct placement with a bank. So depending upon the type of transaction -- and banks would do their own evaluation of your credit. You wouldn't have to develop an offering statement, which is a lot of work and takes a lot of staff time and effort. And the same with the rating. You wouldn't have to have a rating or an official statement that's distributed for the sale. And back to -- you were talking about other debt that you had in the past. You had general obligation bond debt, and you also had debt that was backed by excise taxes. So there are some communities that use excise taxes for their roads or their buildings. And so that is a possibility. Page 23 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION And some have a dedicated sales tax. So they may raise a sales tax just like -- instead of asking the voters for geo bond authorization, or you could have a combination of the two. MAYOR DICKEY: The so the geo bonds, those are the ones where you get the interest is good, but it's limited to what you can use them for. So if you're using a government -- well, I forget what they call it now. But anyway there's -- you can't bond for maintenance. You can't bond, really, just to do maintenance -- STRICKLIN: Tax-exempt basis. MAYOR DICKEY: You mean not on tax exempt. That's what it -- STRICKLIN: So if you do working capital -- MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. STRICKLIN: That would have to be done on a taxable basis. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So maybe someone else can help me with this. Maybe some of the guys are -- if we went for a bond that was strictly to do repair, get us to a point, but then we still need $5 million a year, which we don't have -- so how does that all kind of fit in with this? Maybe -- I don't know. Maybe you can help me, David. So I'm just trying to figure out what we might be able to do within our budget, what we can't do within our budget. How does that work together as we go on? Because even if you look at -- we have two -and -a -half million that we put in now. I mean, I think we could technically look at putting more in from what we have, but we certainly can't put $3 million more in per year. And how does that mesh with what we need to get the roads to a point where we get to a maintenance or that we can afford? POCK: If I'm understanding correctly, the money that we're currently allocating to streets with the conversation that we just had or the discussion we just had, the preventive maintenance and that sort of thing would be funded by the allocations that we're currently making to streets. Anything that would be mill overlay reconstruction could be used -- could use bond money for that. Is that -- MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, okay. POCK: Because it would be -- yeah. Page 24 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAYOR DICKEY: So we could probably do that, then. We could probably figure a way out then to do that. Okay. STRICKLIN: I think the differentiation that you want to make is to determine, when you invest the money into the road, is it going to be temporary, or is it more permanent where you're extending the life of the road? If you're going to be extending the life of the road, that's not just, like, annual maintenance, that is preservation. And so you have to sort of differentiate. And so you may spend more money to preserve the road, but then you'll save money in the long run. MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry, I'll let you go. But that's sort of along the line what we heard. If we could get this roads, streets all -- do it now, then we could actually get to a point where maintenance is affordable. Peggy? MCMAHON: How do you determine, since we don't have debt, the assessed value? You said that it depends on the targeted tax rate and assessed value. Assessed value of real property homes, the whole town value? I mean, could you please explain that a little bit more? Thank you. STRICKLIN: Thank you. Mayor, members of the council, you have a limited property value, which is what the property tax would be assessed to. And so you have a value for the entire community and the tax rate is set against that. And then, within an individual homeowner or business, the property is going to be assessed at different rates. Ten percent for residential, for example. So the the amount -- you have a constitutional debt limit that is 6 percent and 20 percent depending upon what roads are in the 20 percent. So you have your net assessed value and you have a 20 percent limit. And if I get my glasses out, I wrote that down. I believe I calculated that. Your 20 percent borrowing capacity constitutionally is 166 million for 20 percent and 49 million for 6 percent. So you have the capacity under state law to borrow. But then there's the practical reality of what is it going to cost you? And depending upon how long it takes to pay it back. And another consideration is you can't borrow for longer than the useful life of Page 25 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION the asset. So if you're making repairs to the road, and those those repairs are worth 5 years' worth of repairs, then that's over a 5-year period, just like if you bought a piece of equipment that's going to last 3 years, you're not going to finance that over 20. MCMAHON: So is that another reason to break up the the categories if we select to go with a bond, so that each of those categories would apply to that and be spent within the five-year, if that's the limit period. Do you understand what I'm asking? STRICKLIN: Yeah. I think so. So typically, you're going to have a mix of things. So if you were building a building, and you have equipment, the equipment portion couldn't go beyond 3 years, but the building could go 20 or 25. So you would look to see that you have enough being repaid in the early part that you would associate with the equipment. And so if you have no payments in the first five years, but you have equipment, then you've exceeded the useful life on the borrowing for the equipment. FRIEDEL: In your experience, has anybody ever done a bond for reconstruction and maintenance at the same time? STRICKLIN: Mayor, members of the council, it's rare that any community does taxable working capital financing. So the only thing that I've seen is the long-term maintenance. So preservation is sort of the theme that some of the communities I work with have taken on because they look and they say, okay, we spent this small amount and we're maintaining it. We can't really borrow for that. If we spend more than that, and we improve the road and extend its life, then that's what we want to bond for. And so it's the pay me now, pay me later, but you have to invest in the roads now in order to avoid that ongoing cost later that you can't afford. But you have to be able to afford the tax that you're going to ask the voters for. MAYOR DICKEY: So obviously, there's a lot of things to think about. So when when the citizens committee gave us their report, we talked about the -- again, the percentage versus the threshold. And, obviously, to do anything, we would have to have people agree that they want that to be done, which is difficult if their streets, their particular streets are the ones, like I said, that they use are just -- don't seem to be improved because -- and I know it was really frustrating when we put $1 million into Saguaro, but Page 26 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION from what everything that you were saying, it was exactly the right thing to do. But they say, oh you're, you're fixing Saguaro, which was already just great and you know, Tumbleweed and all these other streets are really bad shape. So that's one of the things we really have to think about is, if we veer from always just trying to preserve some of the streets before they go bad, well, we're not going to get anywhere unless people agree that we should fix these streets. I don't know if anybody here thinks there's a way to get where we need to get without a bond or extra funding. Please speak now because I want to know how we could do this. I think we could squeeze out an extra million, maybe 500,000 or something a year. I don't know if we have to do it right now since we have the CARE, five million, five million. We have Prop 479 next November -- 479 or whatever number to think about. So there's a lot of moving parts here. But if somebody doesn't think that we need extra funding to move forward, I'd like to hear that idea because the only other way to do anything like this even -- well, we can't fix what we need to fix on what we have. So that's one part of it, the the backlog and such. But even for the maintenance, we have, obviously, a lot of programs in town. We've got parks and rec, what is their budget and all that? What are we willing to do or are we willing to do to get to that point or do we seriously start talking about, that we need more funding; what's the best way to do it; what's the best way that we can get people to agree with us that this is the way to do it? One of the things I want it to remind people and will have to remind along the way if we do this kind of thing, is that Fountain Hills became a community in 1970. We had a road district; we had a fire district. So people like my family or anybody that lived here before 2001 paid property tax. That's what we did. So in 1989, when we became incorporated, there were some money left in the bond -- bond money left, but the taxing authority went away. So that that's huge. The real killer was in 2001, when the fire district went away. That was about over $2 million a year, $300,000 from the county a year or such. And for all of these years, 22 years, Page 27 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION we've really been -- this has just been there the whole time. And it's manifesting itself, though, with the streets because, like you said, it's like 200-something million dollars of an asset that we need to protect. It's a public asset. And we tried -- you mentioned the $29 million bond that failed. We've tried property taxes 2000, 2003, 2008, 2017. We raised sales tax. We've tried fees, environmental fees. We tried to do a public safety fee that didn't go anywhere. We have tried, to me, anyway, with 40 years of living here, whatever we could do to mitigate this. I don't see how we move forward. I'm not saying we have to do it right now I really want more information about the $5 million, how we think that might play in; if it's worth waiting, or if we better do it now, and if we better do it now because of the streets that are falling apart. And and we don't have the money to do that. So there's a lot of questions out there. And just another thing I want to say, I'm disappointed that Councilmember Skillicorn decided not to come because we had this meeting out October 24th, put in a calendar event. Everybody accepted -- well, he accepted. And then yesterday or Tuesday or something, I get told he wasn't coming. And with this mantra of roads first, I feel like it's sort of unfortunate now because this is the meeting where we were getting the information to know how we can move forward. And when I see on Facebook that this was the mayor's crazy tax, massive tax hike, secret meeting, I'm not buying that. So this meeting was well-known. We talked about it at our retreat also on 11/2, said we'll talk about streets in full. So I'm open. We're all open to know what other options they think we have. Anybody thinks we have, short of defunding one or two departments around here or strictly close the community center or something. I don't know what else to do here. But I'm not saying, unless I hear from others, that we definitely have to do this now. As far as the maintenance part, what do we have to do to get to a point where we can use that CARES money? Because I'm all ears. Justin? WELDY: Madam Mayor, there are -- one of the things that I want to give you an option Page 28 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION to give direction on stuff right now is, we need to discuss the level of service. Depending on the level of service the council would like to provide will help us establish the funding we need in the horizon. As a reminder, with the exception of the additional CARES Act funding, which we've tentatively asked the mayor and council for next year, we're already spending half of that, plus our maintenance money this year. So we're looking beyond that in the horizon. What we can do is put together a couple of level of service options. And as a reminder, previous councils agreed to a letter grade based on the PCI. We will share that with you and based on that, show you the different types of level of service and the funding that will be required to meet that level of service. It'II take us a few days to work with our consultant and have discussions with the citizens advisory committee so we can come back with you and then we will send that to the mayor and council. What that will do is allow you, as a group, to determine the level of service, because the level of service is going to have an impact on the level of making things challenging, but less challenging because we know what we're asking you to ask them for. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. I want to see -- is someone on the phone. Does someone on the phone want to speak? I'm sorry. No? Okay. Councilwoman? MCMAHON: Thank you, Justin. I would like to see something like that because it would be very helpful in making a decision and also provide a new direction from your vantage point and experience with the streets. But in addition, part of that, my understanding is the five million, the ten million, et cetera, you can only contract so much out of every single year and get that work done, even though there's money, like the $10 million sitting there. But that was my understanding, too. So that plays a part in this as well; doesn't it? WELDY: Indeed, Councilmember, it does. All of the moving parts are going to be a big factor here. Again, we're discussing the level of service here and that level of service is going to give us a defined number. That defined number will then help the elected body have discussions amongst themselves and with others on how to best proceed to arrive at that. Page 29 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? FRIEDEL: I thought that was going to be my point. I don't know if we know what the appetite is with everybody for dollar amount. Is it 48 million? Is it 20 million and then another 20 million? So I think what would be helpful is a list of these roads that are really terrible and some kind of an estimate. And I know that's playing games with estimates, but what it would cost? Like, if it's going to be Grande, $5 million or something to that, so we can have something to sink our teeth in. It's visual, and it gives us an idea as to what the appetite for a bond package would be. I think for the residents to know that too would be important. How hard would that be to do? I think we know the roads that are in bad shape, right? The pre -incorporated? WELDY: The good news is that we've already paid somebody to collect the data, and they host the software. It just takes a little while to run those types of scenarios. It's not an instant click. FRIEDEL: Right. WELDY: So we can certainly work with Roadway Asset Services and look at that, and it's not going to be defined on a single sheet, but rather, in several pages of a report in regards to options. And again, we're talking about level of service is where it really starts, which again is the PCI. KALIVIANAKIS: Ms. Mayor, can you hear me? MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. Yes. Go ahead, Councilwoman. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I've been obviously listening in. On the report that we have been looking at, the RAS report, there's two graphs I'd like to just point out. There's one graph of pre -incorporation versus post -incorporation roads in two different colors. And then if you go to page 5 or 6 on the report, there are roads in excellent, very good, good, fair, marginal, poor, very poor conditions. Now, if you compare those two maps, some of the pre -incorporation roads aren't just poor and very poor, so some of them are marginal, fair and good. And so I guess what I would like to see, kind of riffing off of what Councilman Friedel said was, if we can identify the poor and the very poor roads, then, and if we can further Page 30 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION identify the usage of those roads, there might be some of those roads that have very minimal usage. And so I don't think we have to fix those. But if we took the poor, the very poor and we looked at traffic studies or even just by count of cars, then maybe we can hone in on the real problematic areas because, as a citizen that lives in Fountain Hills, I don't mind driving on a marginal road, but when I heard people talk about driving on roads that does damage their cars and stuff, I think that would be the poor and the very poor. So would there be any way to determine that number that we could spring off of? And maybe we can fix the poor, very poor, and then continue to do the maintenance? MAYOR DICKEY: I think so. I think that's what Gerry was talking about. FRIEDEL: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: And we have some of that, we had that information to with with the work that's already been done. And again, it goes back to deferring roads that seem marginal, that we might be okay driving on. But then, in two years, they're the ones that that make us go into that 15 percent. So I think we leave -- but that is information that we definitely could use. Vice Mayor? GRZYBOWSKI: I don't think we necessarily need or should get -- when you come back to us with a dollar value, I don't think we need street names because I don't want to get into arguments with homeowners as to, my street seems way worse than that street. I feel like you gave us a really great slide right before your question slide, where it talked about -- I don't know, it's a really good slide. Somewhere in there, I took good notes. Then we've got the great slide that came from the RAS folks that talks about the pavement condition categories and especially the pre -incorporation. So I feel like if we use the data that you have, I don't think we need to overwhelm ourselves. I don't think we need traffic counts. You're already telling us, this is what the road conditions are. Just because one road may have more traffic than another road -- yes, the slide right before that, that is fantastic, as well as the graph that shows the PCI categories of the pre -incorporation asphalt. I feel like those were the main two slides Page 31 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION that we should be using and that's where the dollar value should come from. And he also had a great slide where he talked about the little yellow line on top of the -- MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. GRZYBOWSKI: Right, right. Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Go over -- GRZYBOWSKI: Right. The one that goes over the other stuff. So this is a high dollar value. Then the little gold line is another $11. So that was a great slide too. So I feel like those are the things we need to be concentrating on. I don't feel like you need to bring back to us the individual street names. I don't think we need traffic counts. The data is already there. I want to see dollar values off of the three worst conditions or whatever it was. I think it was the three worst conditions. That's where I think we need to be. I feel like it's more objective to just look at that and not see street names and not see traffic counts. That's where I would like to go with this. Thank you. WELDY: Madam Mayor, Madam Vice Mayor, so we have two different asks, which are considerably different. One of them, the one that you just spoke of, is classification; so arterial, collector, local. The other one that Councilmember Friedel actually identifies the segments and super segments. So that's the actual road itself. GRZYBOWSKI: I just feel like if we start talking individual roads, then we lose the objectivity that these reports have bring to us -- have brought to us. So I feel like, to stay as objective as possible and not go, ooh, that's the one that I take to get to my house. I just feel like that's the best way to handle it. We've got the raw data here, and I like looking at that and not worrying about what street I drive on. And it's human nature to want to have the street you drive on or the street you live on be done first. So I feel like we just need to go with the data that we've got and not try to nickel and dime and each individual street. MAYOR DICKEY: Can I suggest that -- so we're we're talking May or whatever, if we even went forward with something for this year. Why don't we see what Justin had in mind to bring back to us and see what that does to -- maybe, if you want more after that, or if Page 32 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION Brenda sees something else that she'd like to see in addition to what you have in mind to give us choices. And if we don't feel like that's enough or we need more, then we can go and ask after that because I tend to to agree as far as the streets go, because that is what happens. And again, that kind of gets us back to where we always are with anecdotes and things like that, which we're really trying to get away from as much as we can with this because it's money; it's an emotional issue; it's where you live. So if you have an idea of how you would like to proceed, and since I think we do have some time here, I'd like to see what you had in mind to give back to us and then allow us to see if we think we need a little bit more. Does that help at all? Gerry? FRIEDEL: I just want to remind you that $29 million bond that was not passed by the residents, the $8 million did pass because they knew it was specifically for Saguaro Boulevard. That's my point. If we're going to sell this to everybody in this town, they are going to want to know what's going to be done with that money. The 29 failed; Saguaro passed because it had that name attached to it and everybody saw what was going to be done and everybody was really happy with that job, by the way. Justin? WELDY: Madam Mayor, if I may? MAYOR DICKEY: I think it would be specific by the time we got to that point. And you know, just to say that the Palisades one, was -- I mean, that one was specific, too. It just -- they didn't want to do it. WELDY: For each fiscal year and the outlying years, in this particular case, if we knew there was going to be supplemental funding, we would generate those maps that council sees when staff comes back and asks for contract permissions and those types of things; we will provide that level of detail. And again, we already do that for the level of funding that we have. And if there was supplemental funding, regardless of whatever amount that was, we would prepare and share those maps on the horizon. And Madam Mayor pointed out a good point. What I'm talking about is a level of service, A, B, C, or D, with obviously, D being the stuff that the Councilmember Page 33 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION Kalivianakis says you might need car repairs. Based on the adopted criteria from the mayor and council, we will provide some funding scenarios for those levels of service that will include all the classifications: arterials, collectors, and locals. Once we have that, if we would like to drill in a little bit deeper and identify some of the areas in regards to their classification, we certainly can. But it's important to note that if we're going to be making a big ask, we will provide as much detail, including either quarterly or sectional maps, that show exactly which roads will be done and approximately when. There's already some of that in the Roadway Asset Services' report that we shared with the mayor and council and the executive summary, and there's some in the published one as well. MAYOR DICKEY: Gerry, just in the the level of service, I thought that the kind of the A -B- C thing wasn't really a thing anymore. I don't want the level of service to be an average. I'd rather have it be a threshold. Just kind of like -- and I don't know if Gerry or Greg or anybody would want to come up and talk a little bit about that, or if you guys have anything that you would like to add. Because I think we would -- that probably would go to what you're talking about, because if you just have a PCI, then you are still going to have people that say, well, my street is this way. If you go through a threshold where it has to be a 70 or whatever -- yeah, 70. That's what you had, right? 70? Then we know that everybody wants to be at that threshold instead of, oh, the average of Fountain Hills is 72. See what I'm saying? So I don't know, when you say level of service, what do you mean? WELDY: So the PCI rating converted into a grade level. So we have a marginal. So from 50 to 60 is a certain level of service. From 60 to 70 is an increased level of service. Anything above 70 is an incredible level of service. MAYOR DICKEY: But it's not a threshold; it's an average. WELDY: So -- MAYOR DICKEY: And that's kind of where I'm thinking we're not going to get the buy -in or the support if it's an average. WELDY: Yes. Page 34 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAYOR DICKEY: That kind of worries me. Yes. WELDY: We can certainly set minimums. So what is your minimum for a collector? MAYOR DICKEY: 100. WELDY: What is your minimum for an arterial or local street? We can certainly set minimums in that, which is the reference to the threshold. We will not allow it to get below this percentage point. FRIEDEL: Okay. Can you tell me the percentage of pre -incorporated roads that are local? WELDY: All of them. FRIEDEL: All of them? WELDY: So those two are really combined. Fountain Hills Boulevard. Saguaro's already been reconstructed, but Fountain Hills Boulevard, basically, just north of Station 2 to -- FRIEDEL: So Fountain Hills Boulevard is considered a local road? WELDY: No. It's a pre -incorporation road. FRIEDEL: Okay. WELDY: Pre -incorporation. So most of the local roads, or residential, are pre - incorporation. FRIEDEL: Okay. So all right. So maybe my question was was wrong. What percentage of the pre -incorporated roads are residential? Do you have any idea? WELDY: I do not have that number off the top of my head, but we can certainly get that for you. FRIEDEL: Because maybe that's -- maybe that's the trick. We're going to do all those pre -incorporated residential roads so the residents know that we're addressing that. WELDY: And it's important to point out that not all of the pre -incorporation roads are in poor condition because they have been included in the annual maintenance. MAYOR DICKEY: Right. And when they -- actually, the ones that are in good shape are sort of proving that they're in good shape, and maybe they don't need that level of service. WELDY: Service. Page 35 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Yeah. WELDY: Correct. MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else? Do you guys want to say anything or anybody from -- any -- yes. I don't think he wants to. MITCHELL: Mayor and council. My name is George Mitchell. I'm a member of the streets advisory committee. I appreciate the opportunity to make a couple of comments. I think the key point is that if you're arguing about how much is needed rather than whether more is needed, that's a good argument to be having. And the point, Mayor, I think that you made is correct. That the current revenue isn't enough; it's clearly not enough. My own background includes being the assistant and acting budget director for the State of Wisconsin and director of public works in Milwaukee County. And I have to say that my job was to do the kind of sales pitch to the governor and the county executive that Justin and his team have done. And I don't know if he would have liked working for me, but you've got a first-rate presentation today. The information you've received, it really gives you the opportunity to get a grasp on the problem. And I hope -- I'm encouraged that that those members who are here appear to be focused on figuring out how that additional gap is going to be filled. So thank you for that opportunity. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. WELDY: As a reminder, that person right there worked for us for free for a little bit more than two years, along with the rest of them and several others that aren't here. And we still appreciate their time and their dedication and opinions. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. I have their list and have us with all the years. I don't know if they want to hear about it, but 45 years, 40 years, 36 years, all that. And so again, we totally appreciate that and appreciate all of your expertise and you coming here today, too, because as you can tell we're a little -- we don't know what we're doing quite yet but we needed all this information in order to move forward. Are there any other questions or comments? Page 36 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION Yes, Rachael. GOODWIN: Mayor, my comment in follow-up is really regarding timeline. You know, there's an ask for some more information. We discussed, again, if -- and I want to underscore that, if there is a move towards a bond election, we're working up against a deadline which you said in May at the latest. Was that right, Linda? MENDENHALL: Correct. GOODWIN: Okay. And I'm not fully versed, but I do know that our guest with us today both can articulate what has to happen in that window, if and when there is a decision that says, yes, we want to move forward with this. There's a lot of to-dos in between now and then. And then the difference between once that bond is called for that is officially, what can we do or not do based on that timeline? And I guess, I just I want to be sensitive to what that is. And I also don't want to force something. I don't want to shoehorn something into a window that's not long enough. So I want us to try to be a little bit sensitive to that. So maybe, Zach, if you can give us a little detail there? SAKAS: Thought I was going to get away without having to speak, but thanks for -- [LAUGHTER] SAKAS: Mayor and council, Zach Sakas with Greenberg Traurig. I have the pleasure of serving as bond council to a variety of Arizona municipalities over the past 20 years. So happy to answer additional questions. And in response to the clerk's earlier comment, I will get you your ballot language as early as possible, of course. In general, the process for leading up to the election is often a time of education for citizens. So for example, today, council and staff revisited Saguaro and the success of bringing that in under budget and paying it off in a timely manner and the impact on sales taxes. So that time of education, once the bond election is called, then city officials, city staff are prohibited from using city resources, town resource, excuse me, to advocate one way or another for the bond election. So at that point, the the silly but true example I give is, we can't put banners on police vehicles and drive around town. We can't put banners, "Vote yes on bonds", on dump Page 37 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION trucks coming around to pick up trash, things of that nature. Which I wouldn't have to tell people not to do that if sometimes people want to do that. So no using city resources. In addition, there are statutory requirements that any written materials regarding the election include certain provisions regarding an estimated average annual tax rate that would be imposed related to repayment of debt service on a general obligation bond. Again, everything we've we've seemed to lean towards speaking about today is with respect to a general obligation bond election. As the clerk mentioned, again, those can be called for any November election in any year. And then otherwise -- trying to think what else. The timeline for preparing the informational pamphlet is often handled. The city council gives direction to call the election, and then the informational pamphlet is prepared by staff and consultants, in the time after that, in accordance with the county elections department's timeline. But there's no additional council action to approve that informational pamphlet or any sort of second or third meeting to review that before it's sent to voters. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thanks, Rachael, for bringing that up. So again, that's part of all of the discussion. So it could be any November, but it has to be in November, right? It can't be May or something like that. GOODWIN: Correct. MAYOR DICKEY: We have articles that we're reading about labor shortages and such, how much things might change in price to take into consideration. We have the fact that we do have the ARPA funding. We have Prop 400 -- it will be 479. It will be next November as well. There's a lot of things to think about before we know how we want to proceed. Gerry? FRIEDEL: Let me add one other thing to that. We've talked about doing an underground ordinance for fiber optics and that. So I want to make sure that any roads that we are going to be doing, we've checked with Cox and our other utilities to make sure that Page 38 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION we're not ripping those roads back up and that that stuff is done simultaneously. So we might have a way to do our new roads and upgrade our infrastructure as far as fiber optics at the same time. So I just want to be sure that we do that. I'm sure, but I just want to make sure that that's considered as well. MAYOR DICKEY: Sure. WELDY: Madam Mayor, a Mr. Butler with a citizens advisory committee noted that several of the questions that you've asked are included in their report, and I attached that report to the staff report, so you may be able to read through that and answer some of the questions you've asked today. MAYOR DICKEY: I really appreciate it. Rachael, anything else? GOODWIN: No. I think that I just wanted to again point out sort of the timeline, it's not good or bad. It's just something to be aware of. And then, potentially, when you'd like to bring back the follow-up from staff, and we can talk more offline when we want to schedule that. But again, I know that this is a pressing issue, it's a timeliness issue, and there's some some staff time involved in that too. So I want to make sure that we're we're keeping up on that. MAYOR DICKEY: Gotcha. WELDY: Madam Mayor, before we close, one of the street committee members, Mark Graham, has asked for a couple of minutes to speak. MAYOR DICKEY: Of course. Hi, there. GRAHAM: Hi. Hello, everybody, again. Thank you. Justin. Mayor and Council, Town Manager. You know, it's important, as Justin mentioned, we had submitted a report that we felt over a year and a half, almost, of work was pretty detailed. And much of what has been said today we agree with. However, we took a little different approach. Mayor had mentioned earlier about a standard like 70 percent. Yeah, we want to fix everything under 70 percent. It's a big task. But you know, if you live on one of those streets -- and to Mr. Friedel's -- your point about naming streets, that has a double-edged sword as well, because if you don't Page 39 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION see your name on that street, I'm a no vote, right? So you might be three years down the road in getting your street fixed. So that's one of the many challenges of identifying the streets. Anything under 70 percent, which I think the town should be publishing a map that shows where all these streets are, what their ratings are, what our priorities are, without having to go into the detail because you can get some paralysis through analysis, if you will, if you give too much detail. RAS, I think, if I remember correctly -- correct me if I'm wrong -- I think was about a $60 million. We thought as a committee that that was high. There's another way of approaching it. We came in with a 40 to 50 million depending on if we're going to do intersections, we think is much more reasonable because we don't think we have to repair or rebuild, I should say, completely rebuild all the streets. We've had tremendous successes in the past. The staff has done a great job identifying roads, and El Lago, I think, is probably a good example of that. That looks like a rebuilt street, and it's serviceable for many, many years. So you know, the challenge with identifying things, it's a Whac-A-Mole game, right? The street's great. Now, suddenly, this one's popped up with problems. And so you're constantly doing that, if you're identifying certain streets. We think a better way is through that PCI. The worst streets get the most attention and priority as well, as well as maintaining all of our other streets that services the entire community, not just your particular neighborhood. Let me see if I have anything else here. And again, I think as what was brought out, the only street that really is important to somebody is a street that they live on. And so you want to make sure that that's good. But I saw, I think on the town's website, how the street cleaner came in one neighborhood and just basically tore up the street because it was in such bad condition. So we've got to identify these streets to your point and set those as a priority. And I just don't think we drive on averages. We drive on the reality of what the PCI ratings are, and that's what's really important. Those should take the priority and those are the ones that need our best attention. Okay. I think that's about it for right now. Again, I would encourage you to read Page 40 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION through that committee's report. I think there's a lot of really good information in there. We're just a -- we're just a bunch of citizens who want good roads. We have no political fight in here. We really think that unity is going to be important. We've got, as a council, if we can all get together as a group and say this is really what's needed. The reality is we don't have enough money to fix our streets and we can't do it on credit cards. We can't do it by cutting here and there because if you save two million from this pot and put it in this pot, then other streets are going to go down. So our strategy from a committee, fix all of them now within a -- you know, a normal period of time. Have the monies there in that bond to do that and then we can get to a manageable yearly budget for street maintenance. So with that, I'll thank you for your time and attention to this. WELDY: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you for your time as well. WELDY: Madam Mayor, if I will. And I'm going to dovetail on to Mr. Graham's comments. A couple of years ago, staff approached the mayor and council on two different occasions for pilot programs. These were to see what we could do with the worst of the worst. We'II refer to that as Chama. We asked the mayor and council for permission and funding to utilize a, not typically type of maintenance here, which is chip seal with a cape. We did that on Chama. We now know from lessons learned that certain sections of Chama that were in relatively good condition have fared well. The others fared very poorly. Lessons learned. We now know that that type of treatment is applicable and much less expensive and moves that street out of the backlog for X amount of years, seven to ten years, beneficial, allowing us to plan. The second one was for El Lago. Different approach. Relatively decent with some really bad spots. Went in and either milled out and cut out all of those spots and replaced them with pavement, did crack filling, and then we did a type 2 polymer. That one is still in the test phase. I will say, at this point in time, we're doing pretty good on that one. With that said, another member of the street committee, Jerry Butler, would like to Page 41 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION speak for just a few moments, please. BUTLER: Mayor, Council. This citizen street committee, and I think the mayor started to address us, we represented 250 years of experience before we started into this project that we were challenged to do back in '21. That's before three members of this council were up here. We started into the program because the community had said, we have a problem with streets; what are we going to do about them? Now, I think Vice Mayor today asked the question, what streets are in what -- how much will it take to fix certain streets? The citizens advisory committee has that in their report. Arterials, we're saying, will cost -- I believe it's five million. Hold on. We were shown arterials -- and these are streets -- arterials with 70 or below PCI rating -- will maybe take $5 million. Our collectors, nine million. Locals, 26 million, and the other was 10 million for intersections that was not included in the RAS report. Those intersections are also an integral part of our street system and moving traffic through the community safely. So without going into your comment about can we name the streets or identify segments of streets? We identified it by categories of arterials, collectors, and locals, plus the intersections. And we also recommended in our report that maybe because people are going to look at these streets differently, as they have in the past -- it was brought up that the $29 million bond issue in 2011 failed. But when we came back two or three years later with Saguaro, oh, now, we will approve or accept a bond for Saguaro. So maybe the public, if they're given an option as to what streets do you want to fix, whether it's the arterials or the collectors or the locals? Now, a lot of people, 15 -- maybe 15 percent of this community lives in gated communities where their local streets, they fund them themselves. So there's a problem coming that has to be addressed. And we also tried to, as a committee, say how might we be able to do things that would help those in the gated communities so that -- as Mark pointed out, so that we operate as a community in unity, that we all can help each other. But it's a very complicated topic as Justin has pointed, RAS has pointed it out, this is not easy. Page 42 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION When we were given this challenge as a citizens committee, it reminded me of Gilligan's Island. I think they went on a three-hour tour. Well, we were told when we started out on this that it might be six months or less. We spent 20 months at this. We dug into the details, and I will say we took everything that RAS gave us. We went back to the 2008 report. We took the 2018 report. This committee went into the weeds, into the streets, into each segment of the streets, trying to come up with something that might be palatable to the community as a whole. I have an individual sitting next to me right here that's shown me the street in front of his house. I won't call them potholes, but they look like them. There's at least seven in a very short section. What's he interested in? He's interested in his street. But we've got to have the community in unison to say, we're interested in all of these streets. So if we go back to the comment earlier, let's do it on the basis of traffic counts, we've done it. Arterials carry the most traffic. Collectors carry the next amount of traffic. And locals, well, if you happen to drive on that street, then that's important to you. But unity, as Mark said, is the key to success in this community. And we were convinced because we looked at every possible revenue source and cost figures. We don't believe that this can be done without some additional funds. And if grants could be found, hey, that's super. But I don't think they're out there, or our staff would have found it by now. So it's going to be up to us, as a community, up to us, as residents, whether we want to do something about our streets. Now, I look at you as a council and say, you have to give us the green light. You have to give residents the green light to vote on whether we want to pay to improve our street system. It's not money that you are obligated to come up with; it's we, the residents. We have to make that decision. But you have to give us the opportunity to make that decision. I think, if you will go back into the CASC report, you will find out that we took things differently than what RAS has done, and they did it all perfect. ASTN, they followed it to a letter. We're just saying that maybe it has to be just a little different. And we took the approach. Our approach is this fix all streets now. Get them above a 70 threshold PCI Page 43 of 44 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS NOVEMBER 16, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION number because we believe the streets above 70 can be then maintained for many, many years using the revenues that we now have available to us. And instead of having people call you and say, why aren't you fixing my street, we'll fix it. But it's up to them to make this critical decision. They failed in the past, saying, no, our streets are fine. Our streets are continuing to deteriorate, and they will continue forever if we don't do something about it. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks, Jerry. Appreciate it. Again, appreciate all your work, everyone that's here. Anything else for the good of the order? No? Well, ten to 5. Thank you so much, everyone. We're adjourned. Page44of44 Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on November 16, 2023, at 4:48 p.m. ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS da G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Work Session held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 16th day of November 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 19th Day of December 2023. Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk