Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023.1205.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL December 5, 2023 A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:33 p.m. Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember Allen Skillicorn Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall Audience: Approximately thirty-five members of the public were present. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Post -Production File Town of Fountain Hills Town Council Meeting Minutes December 5, 2023 Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Page 1 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Thanks for coming. Please stand for the pledge. And if you choose, remain standing for the invocation. [Pledge] MAYOR DICKEY: So much. Fountain Hills resident David Taylor, Jr. Hi. TAYLOR: Thank you, Mayor. All right. Let's pray. Father, thank you for the way that you love us, the way you take care of us. Thank you for the miracle of Hanukkah that we're about to celebrate, Lord. Your people are once again in conflict. We pray for peace in Jerusalem and peace in Gaza. We thank you for sending your son to become us, to save us, the miracle of Christmas. Lord, bless every resident in this town, Lord, both permanent and winter. Lord, bless the people that come here just to work, those that come to enjoy our town. Lord, bless our neighbors, the Piipaash and the O'otham and the Yavapai and those in Scottsdale. Lord, bless the business that is going to be conducted here tonight, Lord, and thank you for just being a wonderful God. And we ask all this in the name, the only name we can ask it, in the name of Jesus. Amen. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Can we have a roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Yes. Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Here. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Present. Page2of63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MENDENHALL: Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the agenda or under call to the public should fill out a request -to -comment card located in the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of that agenda item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into the microphone, and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments to three minutes. It is the policy of the Mayor and council to not comment on items brought forth under call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the council at a future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you so much. Please note that we will not be considering what was previously item 9-B regarding sober living home inspections. Councilman Skillicorn had us put it on the agenda and then yesterday requested that we remove it and possibly bring it back after more work is done. But I know that we do have some comment cards, and we won't read the comments, but if we could get a report from Linda, appreciate it. MENDENHALL: Yes, thank you, Mayor. We did receive 15 comment cards that were against the agenda item. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. So our first item, as always, are activities, reports from the mayor, council, and town manager. I just wanted to remind everybody that this item -- it's on the agenda for the council to have an opportunity to report on our town -related and council -related activities and our meetings that we go to. So as it is not an agenda item where discussion is allowed, there cannot be subjective statements or such made as facts because we are restricted by open meeting laws and one-sided comments cannot be debated. So we'll start with our town manager. GOODWIN: Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to thank everyone who joined us for the Annual Turkey Trot. We had over 2,700 runners out on a beautiful Thanksgiving morning. I want to thank the staff that were there -- it's not bright and early; it's dark and early -- to make that happen. And it was followed by a fantastic parade. So thanks for everyone that joined us. I also want to thank everybody that came out for the annual Stroll in the Glow. That is Page 3 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES a partner event between the town and the chamber, and it was a smash. It was great. It's beautiful. And just a reminder that coming up, we have the menorah lighting to celebrate Hanukkah on Sunday on The Avenue. And then we'll be following next weekend with the Season's Celebrations at the community center. So there is still a lot of holiday fun to be had. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. TOTH: I just want to thank everyone who joined us for a Stroll in the Glow. It's my favorite event of the year. I love that Fountain Hills turns into a Hallmark movie. So Merry Christmas, everyone, and looking forward to a great meeting. GRZYBOWSKI: My husband and I took the Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation tour through the River of Time again. I think it was my fourth time that I've taken this tour. It is so informative. If you haven't had a chance to go, I highly suggest it. It's changed a little bit over the years, as things do. We have a new guide that does the tour. It used to be Bill Myers (ph.). It's now -- her name is Clissene Lewis -- I think is her last name. All of a sudden, it escaped me. And she actually is from Fort McDowell, and her stories -- she is so emotional as she tells the stories. It's fantastic. I also wanted to thank both the town and the chamber for Thanksgiving day festivities, as well as the Stroll in the Glow on Saturday. It was absolutely lovely. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. Rachael, the attendance for the Turkey Trot, was that an all-time high? GOODWIN: It was. FRIEDEL: It was. So that's a big success. So thank you for hosting that. I did attend the Stroll in the Glow, and I have to say that it's probably been the best one that I've ever been at here in the town. So that's all I have. Thank you. MCMAHON: Good evening, everybody. I attended a couple board meetings, East Valley Partnership and the Valley Metro board meeting, also the MAG Homeless Committee meeting on homelessness. And I also -- you know, since our town is a dementia -friendly Page 4 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES town, I had the opportunity to attend the Tempe Annual Dementia Care Summit. And that was really a success. Learned about some new information about new blood tests for Alzheimer's and also gave us some ideas about having the same type of summit next year in our town. I also was invited to and attended the Oakwood Memorial Care [sic] Annual Gala dinner. We work in partnership with Oakwood to bring support and care to some of the people in our community who has that issue in their family. Also, I have to say the Thanksgiving parade was really, really nice. I thought it was a great turnout as well. It was fun walking down the parade with Ginny and her granddaughters. They had a blast. Also, I have to say, and I agree with Gerry and everybody else that Stroll in the Glow -- you guys, where's Kevin? That was just amazing. Whoever, you know, worked on that, did that, the lights were amazing. And having the balloons in the light park, it was just really an added benefit. I think there was, like, triple the amount of people that there's been in a while. I mean, it was crazy cool. And also the community course on Sunday night, that was a really, really nice event. It was packed. They had to bring in extra chairs, and it was a really beautiful course this year. So I am glad we attended. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilman? KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Hi, everybody. And again, once again, thank you for coming tonight and for viewing on Cox Channel 11 live streaming on YouTube. An informed citizenry and engaged citizenry is the best way to get good governance. And so thank you all for participating in this meeting. Earlier today, myself, the mayor, some of our council members had a meeting to meet with the board of the International Dark Sky Discovery Center on site, where we looked at where they were building the new building. It was amazing. They actually walked off where this is going to be, where the planetarium is going to be, and it's just a really exciting prospect for this town. As I stood there and I said, we're going to have the Discovery Center here. You know, we got the River of Time Museum, the community Page 5 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES center, we're going to have Park Place II and III, we're going to have the Art Walk -- give it a year or two, this town is going to pop. It's just unbelievable, the good things that are happening right now in this town. And I think we should all realize that and not dwell on the negative things. The Thanksgiving day parade and the Turkey Trot, absolutely successful. I participated in that with my Brenda K. float; that was my father's Oldsmobile, and it was a hoot. And I really had a great time, and the people all seemed to love it. And what a celebration of love. The Stroll in the Glow, again, I went to with many of the mayor and our councilmembers. And again, it was just as described today, a beautiful event. The mayor gave a speech recounting that -- you know, all the people just having fun with the bikes and the glow and this and that. And she said, boy, wouldn't it be nice if we could have this experience every day in Fountain Hills? Keep this goodwill of Christmas and Hanukkah all year long. And I appreciated that appeal. It's very, very relevant in this town. We've got so much, so much good going on here. We live in a beautiful community, an affluent community. We've got so much going for us. And so let's just make sure we appreciate what we have. And a lot of times people, they don't appreciate what they have until it's gone. But we have a great town here, and so let's celebrate that. The last thing I'd like to discuss is if you're not going anywhere for December 7th, Pearl Harbor Day, the Falcon Field, the Commemorative Air Force Museum, is having a ceremony at 1 o'clock where they are removing part of the bulkhead from the USS Arizona, and it will be presented there on display. And so it was the day that we lost 1,177 sailors on the USS Arizona. Governor -- or not governor, Mayor Giles is going to be there giving the keynote speech. Now, I was part of a similar ceremony two years ago. It was a wonderful thing. And actually Mayor Giles choked up during the presentation because it was so emotional. So if you don't have any plans for that day, I would recommend that you stop out there. It's free to the public. Thank you. SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Happy advent, everyone. A few things to Page 6 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES report is I did have a couple opportunities to go with the economic director to a few businesses, talk about some opportunities and challenges the town has, our businesses specifically have. And it was interesting talking to one of the business owners about some of the challenges they've had to deal with planning and construction. And even something we think as simple as an awning, maybe how we could streamline that and make it a little bit simpler and better for them. Other notes, you know, we have plenty of community events. We had the Stroll and Glow, which was great. It was great seeing the kiddos and their bikes all lit up. That was something special. And they did multiple laps in the parade, which was kind of fun. We had, you know, obviously the Thanksgiving Day parade. And I actually had an opportunity to have a couple of conversations about parades. So that Thanksgiving day parade, we kind of take it for granted. We get to celebrate it. But the town employees, the chamber employees, they have to work on Thanksgiving day. And that's something that is always kind of a concern and it's something that is tough on them and their families. So I kind of wonder something outside the box. Maybe we could work on the date, maybe the weekend before or something, the Sunday before. And then also I did talk about our parade stuff, as in maybe having a community group bring us a St. Patrick's Day parade, which would be fabulous for our businesses. And I saw a head move back. It would be fantastic businesses, and they'd be open for business and actually be able to participate and, you know, actually be able to have some commerce. That would be great for our town. But that's all I have for right now. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. I went to the MAG Regional Council, of course, every month, but this time is kind of interesting. They had a new Zink for transportation grants, so I know we're always looking for that. They had a report on autonomous vehicles, which, oh, I don't know. They seem kind of scary, but I know everybody's kind of getting into them these days. So MAG was established in 1973 -- I didn't know that -- as the designated MPO, which is the Metropolitan Planning Organization for Maricopa County. It's mandated under federal law. That's how we get federal funding for transportation. So this is their 50th year. Page 7 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES So the Canadian Arizona Business Council, which is led by Glen Williamson and Holly Mechsner, they have started several new initiatives this year, and two of them I picked to participate on. So I'm on the board for one of them, which is called Project Lift, and it's dedicated to increasing connectivity and information between Arizona and Canada. There were representatives from Sky Harbor, Air Canada, Enterprise -- that's an Enterprise Mobility -- and Mayor Peterson from Gilbert, and it'll be part of the group, and we're going to be looking for members for these two initiatives. The other one is medical tourism. So it's up Amanda's (ph.) alley there. And there were representatives there from health care providers, city of Surprise, and finance folks. And again, it's kind of this core thing. I know he wants us all to take off with it, but we're going to need some help with that. So -- and also, again, just as everyone thanking the chamber, thanking the town and the staff and all of the participants in so many of our great events that we just recently had. So what I'm going to do now is we've got some commissioners to honor who their terms are ending, and we want to say how much we appreciate them. So I'm going to mention two folks who aren't here first and read about them, and then I'll read the names of you others who are here, and you can come up, and we'll present them, and I can read good stuff about you. So one is Marlene Fehrenbach, and she could not be here. But her commission says we would like to take this opportunity to recognize Marlene, who was appointed to Sister City's Advisory Commission by the council in April of 2022. During her time on the Commission, she was actively involved in projects. The council and her fellow commissioners appreciate Marlene's contributions to the Commission and, of course, the town of Fountain Hills. Another person that is not here is Diane Price. Tonight we would like to recognize Diane Price, who was appointed to the History & Culture Advisory Commission by the town council in 2022. Her dedication to bring the history of Fountain Hills to all ages is sincerely appreciated by council, her fellow commissioners, and all of the residents. And just because they're not here, they get a plaque too. Page 8 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES So now I'm going to ask to come up, and I'll come down, and I'll do it one by one, and then we can get a picture of everybody together. Jackie Miles from the History & Culture Advisory Commission. Hmm, I know she was supposed to be here. Deborah Skehan History & Culture Advisory Commission. Sandy Ursini, also from the History & Culture Advisory Commission. James Wilson from Sister Cities Advisory Commission. And Cynthia Magazine from the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission. So let's come over on this side here. I'll meet you over there. You're first. Pick up your plaque and hold it in front of you so we can take a picture. So let's see. James, here you go. Thank you. Debbie, thank you. That. Thank you very much. Cynthia, got you. And then Jackie's not here, so I'll have to -- so let me find her thing so I can read that first. It's live so we're not ready. All right. Here we go. So for Jackie Myers, I'm going to read Jackie's. Tonight we would like to recognize Jackie Miles, who was appointed to the History & Cultural [sic] Advisory Commission in 2022. Jackie was instrumental in sharing her vast knowledge of the history of the town of Fountain Hills with her commissioners. The town of Fountain Hills -- her support of this commission and the town of Fountain Hills is evident by her many hours of volunteer service. And we all know she's done it way before this too. And we sincerely appreciate her contributions. So now we've got the live folks here. Debbie, you are first. SKEHAN: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And we'll ask you if you'd like to say something when you're through, and then we'll take the picture when we're all done. SKEHAN: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Tonight, we'd like to recognize Debbie Skehan, who was appointed to the History & Culture Advisory Commission by the council in 2022. Debbie shared her Page 9 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES knowledge of the town of Fountain Hills and its structures built in the early years. Her dedication to the projects she served on during this first year of the Commission will serve as a foundation for future commissioners to continue. Debbie's support for the Commission and the town of Fountain Hills has been evident by her hours of volunteer service. We sincerely appreciate that. Your council, your fellow commissioners, and all of the town's residents. Thank you to Debbie. [Applause] SKEHAN: Thank you. I'll be brief. I'd just like to say that this was the first year of the commission, and it's got a long way to go. There's plenty of things that they can do in town, and it'll be exciting to watch these things happen. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And don't think you're off the hook. So we know where you live. So Sandy, you have yours. Tonight, we want to recognize Sandy Ursini, who was appointed to the History & Culture Advisory Commission by the town council. This was her brainchild, and we really appreciate that. Sandy dedicated many hours to researching the historical facts to update signage at Fountain Park, and the National Historic Registry for the fountain that will serve as a foundation for the commissioners, then they will use that to move forward. Her dedication to the Commission and the town of Fountain Hills is sincerely appreciated by the council, her fellow commissioners, and all of our residents. Thank you to Sandy. [Applause] URSINI: I think the History and Culture Commission is of great value to the town and will be a great resource for the future. And I just think it's a wonderful thing to do. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, we appreciate it very much. And thank you for thinking of it and kicking it off. And I do anticipate some good things coming. Cynthia Magazine. Wow. So Cynthia, this is for SPAC. She has served with distinction on the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission since her appointment by the council in 2019. Wow. Throughout her tenure, Cynthia has been an engaged and valued member Page 10 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES of the commission, making important contributions to major initiatives like the 2022 strategic plan. Her experience and insights have proven invaluable in shaping the town's long term vision and goals. Cynthia's commitment to the strategic planning process demonstrates her care of this community and her desire to see it thrive. The town council and her fellow commissioners are grateful for her dedicated service and the lasting positive impact she has made through her work on the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission. Cynthia. [Applause] MAYOR DICKEY: There you go, my dear. MAGAZINE: Thank you. Well, it all started with Alan, my husband, who found SPAC first, was actually its chairman. And a few years later I decided maybe I could do that too. It was a fascinating, intellectually challenging, sometimes difficult, sometimes fun adventure. I recommend it to anyone with or without strategic planning experience, but it does help if you've had that. It was an honor to serve. Thank you so much. [Applause] MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you, Cynthia. And now we have James Wilson from Sister Cities. Since his appointment to the Sister Cities Advisory Commission by the town council in 2020, James has served with great distinction. Throughout his tenure, James has been an engaged and valued member of the Commission, making meaningful contributions that have advanced the goals of the Sister Cities program. His considerable experience and expertise in this area have proved tremendously beneficial to the work of the Commission. On behalf of the town council, his fellow commissioners, I wish to express our sincere appreciation for James's committed service on the Sister Cities Advisory Commission. Thank you, James. [Applause] WILSON: Well, when I first interviewed for the role back in 2020, I must have left a little bit of an impression because I don't think anybody really remembers my name, but they remember my career as a rocket scientist. And evidently that was something important to the commission. Anyway, I appreciate the opportunity to serve, appreciate this Page 11 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES council allowing me to be part of that group. I remain part of the board of directors for the nonprofit Sister Cities, so I will still be engaged and offer my support to this commission through the other members of the board who remain as commission members in my absence. And thank you very much. [Applause] MAYOR DICKEY: All right. We're going to get a picture. Smile at the camera. Thank you so much. [Applause] MAYOR DICKEY: So now our next item are presentations. We have two, and our first one is going to be our law enforcement services update with our captain, Larry Kratzer. Welcome, Captain. KRATZER: Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and Council. Thanks for a few minutes of your time tonight to just go over some updates or topics from MCSO. One of the things I want to talk about tonight first is some holiday season safety tips. A lot of these are pretty basic, and some of them are no different than things we've talked about just in everyday life. But with this time of season, we're full speed into the holiday season. We just want to remind residents of some ways to stay safe while going out there. And then I'm going to talk a little bit about our cadet program that we've brought to Fountain Hills and inform the council and the public on what that program is and what it looks like right now and how it's growing. So for holiday safety tips, one of the things we encourage is -- or we let people know is that the holidays with all the people out shopping -- and a lot of that's done online now, which creates its own challenges and security risks. But if you are out and about, it's usually crimes of opportunities and people who are looking for those opportunities to commit those crimes. So taking small measures to help protect yourself or your family members is big in avoiding maybe becoming a victim during the time. So a lot of these you probably have heard over and over and over, and we'll just kind of reiterate them. As you always want to park in well -lit areas where other people are around. Definitely avoid dark areas, being secluded. Those are just areas that people don't see as well in. T Page 12 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES There's more opportunity for crime. Always lock and secure your vehicle. We try to impart that knowledge and that advice on people all year long, but especially during the holiday season when people are looking for items of value, packages in vehicles. And again, pay attention to your surroundings. When you park and you walk in, just look around when you come out. Especially look around. Keep purses and wallets secure on your person and your wallet close to your body. And try to shop with another person if possible; that way it just tends to help. A lot of times when people select a victim to steal from or to rob, they usually look for easy targets. And being by yourself is typically one of those things they look for. Avoid carrying large amounts of cash. If possible, use your debit or credit card. And then when you're walking to your vehicle, have your keys ready. Don't be fumbling for your keys in your purse or your pockets when you're at your car being distracted. And just take a look. Be aware of your surroundings and look in your back seat. Make sure everything is as you left it, there's nobody in the back seat. And one of the things we say all year long is try not to leave valuables in the car. Sometimes that's hard when you're shopping. You've got to stow your packages and the things you've purchased. It is a little safer in the trunk, so if you have the ability to secure it in the trunk of a vehicle, but just make sure it's out of sight. If someone sees something of value, they're more likely to force entry into the vehicle to steal the property. With lots of shopping being done online, just a couple of reminders about holiday shopping online. Only shop through trusted sites, you know, places you know that you can trust. I know there's a lot of scams out there lately that look like those trusted sites like eBay and Amazon. But just make sure that they are a trusted source and a trusted site. Prior to providing any of your personal or financial information, make sure that you're interacting with a reputable, established vendor. And then just be aware that a lot of new scams that we're seeing, I kind of hit on it, are websites that look like some of these vendors that you are aware of. And that's a scam that's been pretty heavily happening quite a bit lately. So ensure that you verify the legitimacy of the website before supplying any of your personal or financial information. Page 13 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES I did want to move on to our MSCO Cadet program. The cadet program is a program for men and women ages 14 to 18 that may have an interest in law enforcement and/or just want to have some sort of structured program that they're involved in. We weren't sure if the cadet program would be successful out here. There was a little bit of discussion of whether or not we get the numbers. It's a lot of time commitment by the instructors and the deputies and the personnel who put it on. But after a few meetings and discussing what the program looks like and the commitment level, we committed a couple of our deputies who are on our squad five Community Action squad to assist with that program. And it's been a great program here in Fountain Hills. Back in May, our enforcement support reached out to us, and we started having conversations about them about the program coming out here, and here we are in December, and we have currently seven cadets who are full members and with a potential new member coming on. So we should have eight here soon. And then there's been a couple of emails of interest, so that group might grow. And they call it the Fountain Hills Cadet precinct out here. And they meet every week on Thursdays at the middle school, the old middle school. The Fountain Hills Unified School District has been a great partner. We met with them. They offered up the location for our weekly meetings, and they've just been really great at letting us have access to the school and the property. Some of the things that the cadet program does, it teaches cadets how to have discipline; it works and hits on physical fitness. It teaches them about adherence to policies and procedures at a young age. And it teaches them some, some law enforcement protocols and protocols in tactics. So they spend a lot of time training on certain things. So I think the cadets who are interested in law enforcement really enjoy, like, learning about traffic stops and how they would conduct those. And they get vehicles that are mild out, and they take them, and they let them practice some fake traffic stops in, you know, private property, and they get to do all kinds of things that police officers get to do in training. And one of the things that -- some of the activities they take part in is they will be supplemental -- they can be used as supplemental Page 14 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES security. I mean, they're in a uniform that's clearly identified as a cadet and not police officer. They look similar, but it would be hard to mix them up with an actual police officer or a deputy sheriff. But they do look like maybe your typical security guard or something to that effect. So it's added eyes and ears at some of the events. They've done car shows. They do the Ostrich Festival every year. And one of the things when we get our group established here is to maybe utilize them at some of the town events, maybe the 4th of July, maybe The Great Fair, having some of them walk around. And it's just additional supplemental bodies, and they don't cost anything, which is the great part. And for them, it's just the training and the experience that they do. They do do some fundraisers to try -- they're completely self -funded. MCSO, the office doesn't really give us a budget for that. So a lot of the things that they do in the program is that they take part of and they find creative ways -- they sell T-shirts or challenge coins, and they do get donations from members of the public so that they can have that group. And it just gives the teenager something to do, something to set their goals towards if they want a career in law enforcement. One of the things I'll highlight real quickly is last Thursday at the Fry's here in town on Shea, they held their 7th annual cadet food and toy drive, and the cadets themselves did fundraising. They raise $2,000 to sponsor four families. So there was 22 people total in those 4 families. And for those 22 people for Christmas -- they're underprivileged families -- they bought toys and groceries and foods and supplies. And that was all money that they earned themselves with their cadet program. So -- and that was fun. There's a lot of pictures that we have. I'll work with Bo to see if we want to put them on the website. But I think it was a really neat community outreach event. They talked to other shoppers. And the big thing is they're wanting to grow. So if there's other teenagers in the school district or in town that want to be part of it, we have a website that, again, I'II work with Bo to get on. It's just MCSOcadets.com. And there's fun pictures and videos on there to see what it looks like. And the commitment for a Cadet, it's a $50 one-time fee to buy your first uniform, and that's it. There's no other cost requirements for the cadet. And Page 15 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES the requirement for them is just to attend three meetings, weekly meetings, and they encourage the parent to come to at least one, if not all three. It's completely transparent. Parents can come to all of the meetings anytime they want, see, you know, what they're teaching the kids and what kind of things they're doing. And I think I mentioned it, they meet Thursday at the middle school from 4:00 to 6:00 p.m. And that's really all I have. But they're going to start being more involved now that we have a good number of them, seven, that we can start utilizing them in the community for some of the town events, or chamber events, or any event that, you know, they may want to have the cadets there. They've helped with parking vehicles on private lots and things of that sort. So at this time, if you have any questions about any of this or other things, I'm happy to answer questions. MAYOR DICKEY: Just going to ask him a question about the cadets. Can they use that for their volunteer hours for graduation? KRATZER: I'm glad you asked that. I did skip that. Yes. All of the hours are community service hours. And as long as they take the initiative to get the form to the cadet leader, he'll fill out those hours, and they track the hours. The other thing that's really fun for the cadets is they can earn ranks within the cadet program. So they can become a corporal, a sergeant, a lieutenant, a captain. And that's really fun for them. They learn the structure of supervisory structure, so. GRZYBOWSKI: The cadet program sounds so cool. So I assume you expect this question of me after all the emails I've sent to you over the past couple of months. I have witnessed and shared with you that I've seen a lot of urban camping, with our new definition of urban camping, whether it be people with rolling brochure racks seated at the park, or in the middle of the sidewalk, or even on common area that's not quite sidewalk. Letter to the editor talked about some teenagers that were seated at the intersection around the corner. How are you guys able to handle -- what are you doing to enforce this and how are you able to handle it? KRATZER: That's a very good question. I did somewhat anticipate that. The answer is Page 16 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES probably not going to be a popular one. And there's some confusion there, I believe, with the meeting we had with the Maricopa County Attorney's Office, who is MCSO's -- our legal counsel on the civil side. So anything that we do, any kind of enforcement action we take on the civil side, they're are legal counsel. It was conveyed to our executive command that the ordinance as written, the urban camping ordinance was not enforceable by MCSO due to some concerns of constitutional right concerns. And so I think in the meeting we had, I was on the phone, there was a few members from the council on the phone, and the town manager, and the town attorney. I believe that what was taken from that by the town was that it wasn't not necessarily enforceable, but there are things that the town could do in writing that ordinance in a manner that would be enforceable or would kind of shore up the ordinance. But what was conveyed to us and our agency and our executive command is that it's not -- MCAO told us we are not enforcing that at this time due to some concerns in the way that it's written. So there is an opportunity, and I've talked briefly to Rachael about the town and maybe the town attorney reaching out to MCAO to see what those requirements would be for it to be an enforceable ordinance by MCSO. So currently, as written, we are unable to enforce that ordinance. GRZYBOWSKI: This may be something that I bring back for reevaluation. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman? MCMAHON: How long is the program for the cadets and do they have graduation, et cetera? The result? KRATZER: That's a great question. There's no formal graduation. A cadet from the start of their interest and attending the three meetings and becoming a cadet in the program, it's a five- to six -week commitment from them to join and be considered a cadet. And then they can just do it until they're 18 years old, and pretty much their payoff, if they enjoy it and like to do it, is earning rank in the -- so becoming a sergeant or a supervisor or a lieutenant, and those are kind of -- but yeah. There's no formal graduation for them. I do believe when they go through some of the training, they might hold kind of an informal, you know, you get your cadet badge, but I don't know that they're a big to - Page 17 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES do where, you know, people are invited to them. I think it's more of an internal process. So yeah, it just goes until they're 18 years old or till they're not interested in doing it anymore. MCMAHON: Well, thank you very much. I think that's a great program, and I do hope that their interest is retained enough for them to seriously consider becoming part of MSCO. So thank you for that. MAYOR DICKEY: Any other questions or comments for Captain Kratzer? KRATZER: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And our next presentation is going to be from David about short-term rentals. You know that the legislature over the years has added some different laws that we have been able to incorporate into our ordinances. And so this is kind of going to be a status report, update on where we stand. Thank you, David. POCK: Good evening, Mayor, Council. Sorry I'm a little behind here. I didn't have my presentation saved. All right. So yeah. If council remembers, it was about just over a year ago when we started talking about short-term rentals as far as the ordinance being able to take some action on regulating short-term rentals within the town. So this is just kind of an update to give you an idea of where we are right now. As far as some basic information, the difference between long term/short-term rentals, you can see there is basically a long-term rental is 30 days or more; short-term is 29 or less. We do have two separate tax rates for the Tong -term rentals. For another year and a few days, anyways, is taxed at 1.6 percent. That revenue for fiscal year '23 was just over $650,000. And like I mentioned, that will be coming to an end around this time next year. The short-term vacation rentals are taxed at our regular 2.9 percent, plus an additional 4 percent hotel/bed tax. That revenue for last year is 535,000. And that represents about a third of the revenue that's collected within that category. As far as the legislative history, it looks like every three years there's a change. So it started back in 2016. The legislature basically said that all short-term rentals had to be treated the same as long term rentals. We couldn't prohibit them and we couldn't limit the number involved with that activity. Then 2019, they did loosen those up a little bit, Page 18 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES allowed us to require registrations, but we couldn't collect a fee for that. And it did say that it was overnight rentals only, and it prohibited events that would require a permit. Then last year the legislature passed Senate Bill 1168 that allowed us to require annual permits with a fee and then some different various health and safety requirements. But we still couldn't outright ban short-term rentals or limit the numbers. So in November of last year, council passed Ordinance 2209 basically mirroring the legislative action, that act, requiring a TPT tax registration with the County Assessor's Office; requiring a town permit along with a $250 fee; complying with various health, safety, and welfare; notifying neighbors; posting required information on the advertisements online as well as at the location; and then maintaining $500,000 worth of liability insurance. So all of that took effect February 1st, 2023. And this is where we are now. So actually, Granicus is a vendor that identifies short-term rentals. They basically look at various websites and identify rentals that are being advertised for the town. We signed that agreement December 20th. Then Council adopted the fee. We had to go through a process for that, which required 60-day postings, that sort of thing. So that was adopted in January. Then we developed and posted an online STR application. That's going to eventually be replaced by Granicus in their online registration portal. But that's still being developed at this point. So as far as the software, we did the first portion from December of last year through March of this year. The second phase was developing the letters that can be mailed out to those individuals that are identified. And then phase three is the registration portal that I just mentioned. That was delayed a little bit because of some coding problems that Granicus was experiencing with Maricopa's data that we were sending them. That's all been resolved, and so we're making progress again. Right now there's 277 short-term rentals, and 123 of those have registered with the town. I did a little bit of background checking, trying to get some information. Granicus is used by multiple Arizona cities and towns. They had everything from about 9 percent compliance all the way up to 69 percent. So we're kind of at least in the upper half of Page 19 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES that. As far as the process, like I mentioned, Granicus crawls different websites, almost 60, on a weekly basis, and then those listings are matched using photographs, landmarks, descriptions, and that sort of thing. Once the address is identified, we send a letter to the registered owner of that property, and then they have 30 days to obtain a permit. If they don't receive that permit within 30 days, then code enforcement takes over. And at this point is when Dr. Wesley gets to take over. So here. WESLEY: Mayor, Council, so we have begun some code enforcement activity with regard to this particular activity. We work with David as he goes through the process and identify the homes and send out the notices. And as part of that registration, as David has already said, you know, they have to comply with -- they acknowledge they will comply with all the standards in the code. They attest that they will submit the notifications to have the liability insurance and the assessor registration. Some of the challenges that we have with the code and its implementation, for example, the letter that they send to the neighbors is required to have the permit number. They don't get the permit number unless they are already registered. And so they'll register before they actually notify the neighbors. And so that's a little bit of a chicken and egg thing that has caused some concerns and problems. The notices, they say that they will place notices on their online advertising. And keeping track of have they really placed them there, have they kept them there is a bit of a challenge to really do on an ongoing, you know, everyday basis. They're required to place certain notices inside the home. Well, unless we get in the home, we can't see they're really there. So basically we're trusting them. They have said when they register that they will comply, and so that's the approach staff is taking, unless we have some other reason to believe that they're not following through that they are doing those things. And so our primary efforts have been, as we get notice from finance, that they've sent notice and people have not responded. Our code officers begin their process of digging a little deeper into who the owners are and where the property is and starting then to follow up with notices of violation and prompting then further action on their part to Page 20 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES get registered. When we suspect from neighbor reports or other information that a property's been used as a short-term rental but has not otherwise been identified, the Code Enforcement Office will follow up on those and try to ascertain if they really are short-term rental or not, and then again try to get them into that registration process. And we also get occasional citizen complaints about various aspects of the operation of a home, trash being left out or some of those types of things. And so they'll follow up as we get those complaints and strive to bring them into compliance. We know that the league is looking at possible additional legislative action in the coming session. Again, trying to get a cap on the total number of homes that can be in a community, trying to establish distances between homes so that we keep more of that character in a neighborhood and don't get too many close together, and maybe even get the maximum number in specified areas of the community so that we can get all those things and can work to keep them spread out a bit more within the community. So we'll be watching that as it goes through and see what we can do to encourage those type of additional legislative changes. We may want to take another look back through our ordinance now that we've had a year, excuse me -- a year or two work on its implementation to see if there are some adjustments we should make. Is there a way to reward it so we can get the notices out to neighbors before the permit's issued so they get that notice early? Can we do a little bit more to make sure up front that they are going to actually create the various notices and send us copies, or require them at some points in the process to send us copies? There's some other things we may be able to do to be a little bit more proactive in the enforcement than we are today. If the Council would like, we can start to look at some of those things. But that's where we are today in this process. So any questions you have for either myself or David? MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any questions? I do. Just a couple. So when you determine the amount of tax money that came through, then would all of those be permitted? They would all have permit numbers? POCK: Correct. For the short-term rentals, yes. All of those should have permits. Page 21 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: So they're all in compliance with everything. Otherwise, we wouldn't even know about the tax, right? POCK: Well. So as far as short-term rental tax, all of that's collected by the Online Lodging Marketplace. So Airbnb, HomeAway, VRBO, all of those reservation sites collect the tax and then remit it as a whole to DOR. So we can't track back to a specific address because they do it as just a lump sum. I think that was -- MAYOR DICKEY: So there's no path there, then, to kind of make sure the other stuff is being complied with? POCK: No. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. POCK: Unfortunately. MAYOR DICKEY: Chances are, though, if they're registered with one of those, they probably are doing it the correct way. POCK: That's right. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. POCK: For sure. MAYOR DICKEY: And then the other one was, so you talk about the notice and the idea of, you know, permits, getting a permit number. If there's a complaint, does that allow us to check on these other items? So basically, I know that we can't go and make sure that they told the neighbors. You know, it's one of those things that's hard to enforce. But if we have a complaint, can we then say, did you get your permit? Did you inform the neighbors? Do you have all the paperwork and such? WESLEY: Yes. Excuse me. Yes, Mayor, we have done that on several occasions when we've had some concerns about a property. We do inquire and ask them, make sure that we go through the ordinance and what the requirements are and ask them. Are we getting into the house to actually see it? No, we're not able to do that unless they would invite us in. So we're still -- MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. WESLEY: -- going largely on them self -reporting. Page 22 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Well, and they're attesting -- as you said, they're attesting to it. So they're saying that they did that. And then when you get to the short-term, like, party house kind of things, I know that Airbnb and some of these others have really tried to, you know, kind of rein those in. And I think those -- we had had a lot of complaints about that. Would you say that you think that's happening less right now? I know with all the parking and everything. No. WESLEY: Captain's back there nodding his head. I have not heard about it as much, Mayor. The captain would have to say for sure what they're really seeing on their end. And we have a good working operation with them. If they see something, they get a call out, you know, on a weekend about some noise or whatever, they'll pass it on to the code staff so they can follow up with the property owners during the week and make sure they're aware of the requirements -- MAYOR DICKEY: Of what they need -- WESLEY: -- and any notices. MAYOR DICKEY: -- to do, yeah. WESLEY: Violations. MAYOR DICKEY: And that's another thing for folks to know is that there are things that happen that are enforceable, even separate from the short-term rental. So a short-term rental, if you're getting harassed, if there's too much parking or they're blocking your driveway or, you know, they're harassing, speeding, too much noise, all of those things, regardless whether it's a short-term -- so those you have to feel free to come forward and make sure that you let us know that that's happening. It may lead to a short-term rental, it may not, but that's the kind of thing that we don't have to worry about what this particular ordinance is, because those things are never allowed. WESLEY: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: Any other comments? Yes, sir. FRIEDEL: So the 56 percent that aren't registered, what's the plan? POCK: So the ones that we have addresses for, as we get them identified and get addresses on the rentals, then letters go out, like I had mentioned, and then that gives Page 23 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES them 30 days. We've been a little bit slow on those just so that we don't send out 200 letters and then all of a sudden we have to send 140 to John's crew. But we are doing it as fast as I think we can right now. But they will get a letter and then go through the same process as everybody else. MAYOR DICKEY: Brenda? KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I'm just curious about when Granicus is going to complete its registration portal. Is there any estimated time that that's going to happen? POCK: So right now they're waiting on me, unfortunately. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. POCK: I like -- KALIVIANAKIS: That's honest. POCK: -- I like it when the ball's in their court. But no, we've got some -- we're down to the testing part and just kind of fine tuning the questions and kind of the flow of how that application goes and what we want to have submitted as far as attachments and that sort of thing, so. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay, thank -- POCK: It should be soon. In the beginning of the new year. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Good. And in the implementation status of your presentation it says that they crawl 60 websites and they have a plan of how they identify these homes. When we're fully in sync with them, what percentage of these homes will be identified through their online sources and their crawling? POCK: So that portion of the program's actually already implemented. So it's being run. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. POCK: It's mid-90s percent. KALIVIANAKIS: Oh, okay. POCK: So I mean, they do really well. It's pretty -- you know, they begin with an automated process that goes and matches photos from Zillow, from, you know, Realtor MLS type information. It's pretty neat. So -- Page 24 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. POCK: -- but then it actually does go through and get verified by a person at the end. So -- KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Good. POCK: -- before we get it. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you. POCK: Um -hum. MAYOR DICKEY: So we'll see the three items that City of Scottsdale presented to us at the league, and I'm sure it will be a league priority, and that we will support likely going forward. City of Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Sedona -- there's just a lot of towns -- Flagstaff -- that have a lot of interest in this, so I hope to see it go forward. Senator Kavanagh has helped with this item in the past. So hopefully we'll get to see some of those things, and that'll help also. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate all the info. Next item is call to the public. Do we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. We have one. Stephen Gay. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. GAY: Good evening, Madam Mayor and Council members. Town employees should not face harassment or be in any danger when enforcing town codes, ever. Bob Burns of the Fountain Hills Independent, sitting in the back of this room, broke some news on November 30th when he published an article regarding council member Skillicorn's threatening behavior toward town employee Pete Lucchese, who was out enforcing the new sign ordinance. The article was based on an MCSO incident report from September with bodycam footage that detailed how Councilmember Skillicorn aggressively followed Lucchese's car after Lucchese took down one or more signs placed by Skillicorn in violation of town sign ordinance. The signs had an eye tracker on them, and Skillicorn followed Lucchese closely while aggressively flashing his lights in an attempt to get Lucchese to pull over until Lucchese reached the MCSO substation at town hall. Lucchese then sought the help of MCO Dep. Lim (ph.), who had coincidentally just Page 25 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES arrived at the station. Lucchese told Dep. Lim that Skillicorn was, quote, driving him down like he was going to do something to me. Councilmember Skillicorn arrived shortly thereafter and, according to Dep. Lim, approached Lucchese at a, quote, quick pace with a loud, aggressive tone. Skillicorn approached Lucchese's car and tried to open the rear door, according to Dep. Lim's report. Skillicorn stated, quote, my signs are stolen. Lucchese did return the signs to Skillicorn after showing him photos of where they were placed in violation of the town's sign ordinance. Dep. Lim told Skillicorn he had no authority to follow Lucchese aggressively, trying to get him to pull over. Lim told Skillicorn that everybody has to follow the law. By the way, the sign that Councilmember Skillicorn said was his was credited to an unknown group called Arizona Taxpayers United (ph.). That group is not registered at any level of government, including federal, state, county, or town. By definition, once two or more taxpayers group together to address an issue, they must register as a political action committee once they reach a threshold expenditure. The number of signs placed indicates they have reached the threshold level of spending. Failing to register is a violation of state election law. Maybe Councilmember Skillicorn is behind this effort since he said they were his signs. More details are in the report, but this behavior is not acceptable. Our town deserves better. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Any other any other comment cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, we did receive one more. Ed Stizza. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. STIZZA: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Town Council, staff, and Aaron. Happy holidays to everybody. So I just flew in and was able to fly over Four Peaks. And I was reminded again -- I've been gone a lot over the last six months, and I was reminded again just how special Fountain Hills is. And so with that being said, certainly the same concerns as usual, right? Tonight seems to be quite a bit about ordinances and upholding them and figuring them out and making sure that we're doing the right thing. So there's a couple things as far as the ordinances are concerned, and I'm just wondering if we are really Page 26 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES upholding all of them. So unfortunately, before I left on my last trip, I was able to go to a Adero Canyon. And it's very disturbing. And everybody in this town should go up there and see the destruction, because that's exactly what it is. And just wondering, you know, over the years that -- my family's been here for 33 years. It seems like we have misplaced or superseded the ordinances on protecting our most valuable asset, or at least one of them, and that is our surrounding views and our surrounding land. And it seems to constantly, as we get denser -- three years ago, I really focused on four different things, and that was our density, that was our aesthetics, that was our dark skies, and our quality of and way of life. And unfortunately, it doesn't seem like we've upheld all of those and to the best that we could. And I plead with this council and the administration to just please do everything you can to protect what we have here, because there's not that much of it left. And I don't know how to get through to everybody on that. Our dark skies, we've violated them. And we could do a better job, both through ordinances and also through just paying attention to what's going on. And as I crisscrossed the country over the past several months, I really realized that, you know, most people don't take the time out to look 360 degrees around them. And I think there's a lot of people here and -- that do that also, and for whatever reason, you know. So it's not easy to get up here for a lot of people and express their concerns. Thank God we do have this forum and we're able to speak out on it. But I really think we need to do a better job. I mean, I'm not going to sit here and list everything. I will put a formal email together on the list of what I'm talking about, but I really would like to know who's protecting and policing a Adero Canyon. I really would like to know. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Mayor, that's it for public comment. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Our next item is our consent agenda. Do we have a motion to approve? MCMAHON: Motion to approve. Page 27 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES FRIEDEL: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please. Sorry. MENDENHALL: Okay. There it is. Sorry. I thought I had it. There it is. Okay. All right. Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Yes. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. Our first item is about fire safety zones on construction sites. I know, John, you're prepared to make a presentation, but I would like to recognize Councilman Friedel. This was an item that he had requested. FRIEDEL: John, I'm going to save you some time tonight because I think I'll shoulder the blame for this, because it's not just construction sites that I was concerned with. I was concerned with the whole town. There are certain areas in this town. And my thought with this was, after talking to some residents, was to help protect their biggest asset in a lot of cases for these residents. I've heard that there's been issues with insurance companies not insuring homes. A couple of big carriers have said they don't want to insure homes in Fountain Hills due to fire risk. So that just drives up prices. It removes competition from our marketplace. So I think the misconception was it was just going to be construction sites. And I'm looking for something a little bit different than just Page 28 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES construction sites, because when I looked at a aerial map of this town, there's areas like Shadow Canyon, North Heights, Adero, Firerock, Balero [sic], anybody that lives near the State Trust Land, anybody that lives near the borders of the reservation -- those are all areas that are overgrown in some way, shape, or form. And so I think what I'd like to do, with Rachael's guidance, is maybe have a meeting with some of the major stakeholders, developers. I've been on the phone with former Councilman Dennis Brown a couple of times this week, and he gets where I'm going with this, but I'm not looking to have it revegetated, necessarily, but to provide protection for every residence in this town and every resident. So if we can do something like that, maybe right after the first of the year, maybe have a stakeholders meeting and get some input and make sure we do this the right way so that everybody knows what we're doing and why we're doing it. So I'll save you some time tonight, if that's okay. Rachael, can we follow up on that right after the holidays? GOODWIN: Absolutely. We can make that happen. FRIEDEL: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. MCMAHON: Jerry, are you talking about construction? FRIEDEL: Not just construction. I'm talking about existing homes and construction sites. MCMAHON: Okay. So John, this one's just for construction, right? Would there be another one for existing that -- FRIEDEL: We don't know yet. WESLEY: Right. MCMAHON: Um -hum. FRIEDEL: We're gonna -- WESLEY: Yeah. So we'd have to get together, discuss what the options would be -- FRIEDEL: Yeah. WESLEY: -- the best way to approach it. MCMAHON: Okay. So shall we hold off on this? Page 29 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES WESLEY: Correct. I think what we're -- MCMAHON: Because it's -- WESLEY: -- saying is -- FRIEDEL: Yeah. WESLEY: -- is this is being basically pulled. MCMAHON: Okay. FRIEDEL: Right. WESLEY: Yeah. MCMAHON: All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time. FRIEDEL: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: And some of the things we've talked about I'm going to send an email to you with some of the questions about the fire suppression equipment, and like you were just mentioning those areas and stuff so that we can bring it back. Thank you. Our next item is approval of a capital improvement project, the Splash Park picnic area. Rachael? GOODWIN: This is one of the projects that you might recall that we discussed through the budget process. Kevin is back tonight to look for final direction and move forward with this project. So with that, I believe he has a presentation and is prepared to answer any questions. MCMAHON: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: I mean, you can wait until after (indiscernible). MCMAHON: Oh, okay. But it's okay. I'll wait till you talk first. SNIPES: All righty. Mayor, Councilmembers, so this is our splash pad area upgrade project that we've talked about a few different times through the CIP project proposals for this year. So for this area, you know, what all does this entail? So this is the area that -- well, let me show you the area here. So this is the area that's up next to the splash pad up near the businesses. And it's an area where turf hasn't grown in many, many, many years since apparently when the lake was drained, they left all the sludge in this area to be hauled off. And in doing so the soil there is so salty it won't grow Page 30 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES anything. And we've brought in quite a bit more soil, and it just keeps leaching from the bottom up and continues to be an eyesore, to say the least. So with the new splash pad going in, it's been a huge success. And with that success comes one complaint and that is there aren't enough picnic tables. There's not enough shade. So this project is designed to kill two birds with one stone. So far, we had invited all the business owners to a meeting on site to show them exactly what would be going on and talked to the property owner about their sidewalk as well. What the town will be doing on our side will be the sissoo trees will all be removed. Those are the trees that are lifting all the sidewalks and causing the issues that we're currently seeing. These were trees that were installed during the development of the Plaza Fountainside buildings as a development agreement with the town. At that time, the developers put in those trees. We'II also be putting in a 55-by-60 foot shade canopy that'll have about 20 picnic tables under it. I'm sorry. There's 15 picnic tables under it. And then we'll be doing landscaping around it as well as adding two ramadas right next to the splash pad so that there'll be three ramadas. Then that'll be right up next to the splash pad, providing a lot more areas for families to sit close to the splash pad as well as areas for the businesses to use, and for the parents to use as well. And then we'll be adding some new landscaping in there, potentially some new art, as well as some sidewalk connectivity in between the businesses and the splash pad. So we'll take a look a little bit further into that. So this is kind of an overhead view of what we're looking at over that area. The small brown boxes are kind of symbolizing the picnic tables and how they'd be placed under the shade canopies. We did pay close attention to the sightlines from the restaurants that are up there that have their outdoor seating areas to try and make sure that we would lose as small of a window as possible to the views of the fountain. And the other thing that we did was we used cantilever shade structures around the splash pad so there would be minimal legs on those. And I'll show you those in just a minute. But trying to do as small of a view block as possible. Page 31 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES So here's kind of a look at what the large shade structure will look like. It will not be these colors, but we'll do something that will kind of blend into the surrounding areas up there. But this is our most cost effective way to get a big shade structure like this in. And then here's a look at the two locations where we're looking at putting smaller ramadas next to the splash pad. These will be metal structures. And here you can kind of see the schematics of how they're set up so that they only have two legs on the smaller one and it'll be four legs for the one that has the arch that'll be around the end of the splash pad. With that, I'II take any questions. MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible)? Let's see what Gerry wants to say. Gerry? FRIEDEL: I have a couple of quick questions. So in your meeting with the stakeholders, the businesses there, have they all bought into this? SNIPES: So we invited everybody to come, and nobody showed up. And we have not heard anything positive or negative from them. All of them were emailed. There was two that responded that said they couldn't make it, but didn't have any questions at the time. FRIEDEL: And then at one time there was talk about maybe the service clubs possibly paying for one or both of those ramadas. Did we get anywhere with that yet or we still -- SNIPES: Um -hum. We have not. FRIEDEL: We have not. Okay. Have we explored that possibility yet? SNIPES: As far as the smaller ones, is that what you're saying? FRIEDEL: Yeah. SNIPES: No, we have not. FRIEDEL: Okay. Do we plan on doing that? SNIPES: We certainly can. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Did I hear you correct? Did you say we're going to be removing the trees next to the sidewalk? Page 32 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES SNIPES: Correct. KALIVIANAKIS: So the trees were planted by the developer? SNIPES: They were. KALIVIANAKIS: It's our land? SNIPES: On our land, um -hum. But yeah. The -- KALIVIANAKIS: The trees lifted the sidewalk, and then people have been tripping and falling and suing. I guess this would be a question for Aaron. But isn't our removing the trees kind of an admission of liability? And how is this going to affect us legally? ARNSON: Mayor and Councilwoman, I think you can appreciate that I would prefer to probably send a follow-up email in response to that question. But in general, I will also say that subsequent remedial actions generally aren't admissible under rules of evidence. So I'm not so sure that it would actually affect us. But I think in order to flesh that out and to maintain some privilege, I would probably have to demur to answer that question offline, if that's okay. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you. ARNSON: Thanks. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director Snipes, just a couple basic questions. One is, how long do you think the fabric structures will last and how long are they guaranteed to last? SNIPES: If I remember right, I think there's a 10- to 12-year warranty on them. We have them several places where we've had many years with them already. And then, you know, it's certainly something that'll need to be replaced somewhere down the road for a fraction of the cost of what the entire structure is. Obviously, the metal's the big -- and the install is the big cost. SKILLICORN: And then when is this work slated to happen? Because it's just a reminder that many of the business is there, they earn the majority of their money right now during the wintertime. SNIPES: So because of the location of where it is at, and that's next to a splash pad Page 33 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES that's open all summer long, our goal is to have it done and open by the time that the splash pad opens in April. SKILLICORN: Does that mean -- April? So are you going to be breaking ground, like, right away? SNIPES: Um -hum. Correct. SKILLICORN: Okay. Okay. We might want to let -- we want to extra communicate with those businesses. Let them know -- SNIPES: We will. As soon -- SKILLICORN: -- what's going on there. SNIPES: -- as soon as we get a schedule together, I'll send it back to the same group that we sent our invite to and let them know. There's just no way without closing the splash pad for the summer that we could do it over the summer. SKILLICORN: Um -hum. Okay. And maybe in the future, I think that the revenue might be more beneficial than what's currently planned. But on that note, I'd just like to make a motion to approve. GRZYBOWSKI: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Wait, wait. Do we have any cards? You can't make a motion until we see if we have any speaker cards. MENDENHALL: Yes, we do have one speaker card. Ed Stizza. THE COURT: Thank you. STIZZA: Hello again. Well, thanks for hearing me before you voted. So again, as usual, and I'm sure Rachael was part of this at some point, but they've done their due diligence and the homework, it's nice to see, because I didn't see the packet designs. So it's good that they've done all that, but I'm just wondering if everything's been done. So again, I mean, I know you've looked at the sightlines, but is it really going to look that good, I mean, down there? And this whole thing I just heard about the scheduling and not one business showed up. Not owners of Euro, not the -- nobody. I mean, that's just amazing to me. I can't believe it. Because if that was my business and it's about to get affected immediately, boy, I'd be all over this. So that's a problem. And again, this goes back to Page 34 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES the 360 view that I was talking about earlier. I just -- it is unbelievable that nobody showed up for such an important thing that's going to affect their business. And I understand the splash pad part of it, but this is the busiest time of the year. And bringing friends and family and everybody through town, boy, oh, boy, we've got enough bad construction projects going on that this one seems like it would be detrimental to those businesses. So -- and I'm sure everybody, like, again, has done their homework, but is this really the best design? That was the other thing. I mean, picnic tables? And shouldn't we explore more options? It's just like the umbrella that I call the circus tent over at the -- that's being proposed over at the Dark Sky Center or the Centennial Circle. I mean, look at some different designs. Make sure that we're doing the right thing. Make sure that everything's copacetic. They've certainly have looked at quite a bit of different options, I mean, as far as putting that together, but maybe there's some more. And I don't know how copacetic that's really going to go look, or I mean the actual awning or canopy is really going to look. That's a big canopy. 50 feet high by 60. Oh, my God. So -- and of course, there's something that needs to be done down there, you know, to utilize the splash park. But again, it's just looking at all options and making Fountain Hills the best it possibly can be. So that's it. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any more speaker cards? MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Just a quick question. When was the first time we talked about this item? Do you know? SNIPES: In -- FRIEDEL: I want to say it was a year ago. MCMAHON: Earlier in the year. SNIPES: Over a year ago, yeah. MCMAHON: It's been over a year. I think this is about the fifth or sixth conversation we've had. You've done two presentations or so. You're doing another presentation. I Page 35 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES mean, that's one of the things I wanted to ask about. And it's not you. I'm not going to hold you up. And once we're done voting, I would like to talk about this particular procedure that we're dealing with right now. So let's go ahead and vote. MAYOR DICKEY: Wait. MCMAHON: I think -- MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. MCMAHON: -- is there a motion? MAYOR DICKEY: There is a motion, but I still have questions. MCMAHON: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: So again, we've seen it. It's in our budget. It's in our this year's budget. And that goes to what Councilwoman was talking about that maybe at some point we'll talk about which things get brought back. And I think maybe when we move forward with our next budget, we'll talk a little bit about, like in our next item too, which is, you know, the drainage. Do we have to see that one again or do we know? I think this one is kind of logical to bring back because -- you know, to see the pictures and because of the scope of this particular one. But there's going to be some and I think we'll be discussing that as we move forward. But as far as the businesses go, they're front -- and they will still be open. The front entrances are still going to be, you know, occupied. I know that a long time ago we talked about putting a bocce ball court and doing some other things, and the businesses were very supportive of getting something done in that area. So I do believe we -- Oh, Brenda, I'm sorry. Because I know we do have a motion and a second. Go ahead, Brenda. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Well, since we opened this up and as far as delayed capital improvement projects, I don't know if this is the right time to discuss it, but there are some of those projects that I wouldn't vote for that were delayed, like the revitalizing the Maricopa County Sheriff's, the locker room, which was like 125,000. MAYOR DICKEY: Just -- KALIVIANAKIS: I would -- Page 36 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: -- just so you know, Brenda -- KALIVIANAKIS: -- on the delayed projects, I'd like to see them come back before council to be voted on. MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry. Just to be clear, the items that we said on November 21st at town council, all of the delayed ones will come back. This just wasn't one of those. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: So the next one is and that one is, so we will definitely see that one again. So we have a -- Gerry. FRIEDEL: I'm sorry. MAYOR DICKEY: I keep looking down. FRIEDEL: Just two points. One, this is an eyesore the way it sits right now. It's terrible. Nothing can grow there. It's a mess right next to a brand new splash pad and our state- of-the-art fountain. So I think something has to be done. And I think the businesses are far enough removed from this that it shouldn't affect their business. But I want to just make sure that we do reach out to the service clubs and offer them a stake in this. So if they're interested, then we can follow up with that, and that would bring our cost down some too. So thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: All right. So Councilman made a motion, and I don't know, did someone second? MCMAHON: Sharron. GRZYBOWSKI: I did, yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So could we get a roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor. Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Yes. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. Page 37 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. Thanks for all the work. SNIPES: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Our next item is one of those delayed capital projects, the drainage improvement on Kingstree. Justin? WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, thank you for the opportunity. Give me just a moment here. This project before you tonight was actually in last year's CIP, and we were not able to accomplish, or rather achieve the goal that we had, which included a marked crosswalk in this location. After working with the mayor and council and the town manager, we decided that we needed to adjust the drainage. In doing so we were able to spend some of last year's unspent money from drainage projects and also from the sidewalk infill. I want to take a minute to just explain a little bit. This is Kingstree Boulevard right here. Saguaro down here on the right. All of this is uphill. And right here is the vertical crest of Kingstree. This street here, this one, this one, this one, this one here, they all drain down into this area, including right here near Amhurst is also the vertical crest. So all of this water comes into this area right here of this intersection. Recent changes in weather patterns has made some of the storms more frequent and more intense. In short durations, we've had long or measured rain that is unusual. This area right here is what we are talking about. So I'm going to discuss in a couple of slides here, this is phase one. All of that water comes into this area, and we've got a little old free incorporation de -watering channel here, the rest of it down and little old concrete channel that was here. This area was simply inundated as a result of the velocity of the Page 38 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES water coming this way, the ponding, the water shot across here, and all the water flowing southbound on Saguaro entered the northbound lanes. The water exited partially in this area right here, causing some erosion. We're going to look at that now as part of phase one. This is what it looked like prior to us spending the money. This is the Saguaro portion that shows the outdated channel that was there. I would like to note that this area right here with all the boulders in it, and these are relatively large, there's been discussion about where we keep these boulders stored as of recent. After this event, this was a vertical drop-off almost eight feet deep at the back of a curb. We filled it with these boulders two times. After the first time we had to enter this under crossing right here for carts and drainage and remove a large part of the boulders because the water simply washed them out and down into that area. This is during construction for that area I showed you. Under the direction of the town manager, we took advantage of this opportunity to install not only a scupper, but a vitally important curb ramp and extension for a sidewalk that will be needed in this area later. By doing so as part of this construction, we've reduced the cost by thousands of dollars for the next part of the sidewalk and/or drainage phase. This is what that area looks like now. As a reminder -- well, it's my first time using one of these, apparently. This area right in here is where that very deep channel was, right behind the back of curb. This is a new safety rail that we installed. This is the sidewalk extension I mentioned. And right in this area is the scupper. This right here is looking south on Kingstree, but down southbound Saguaro. This is a curb opening ramp that we added at this time. And you'll see the sidewalk extension, which reaches up to the future infill location. This provides not only a cost saving in the future, but for right now, for several people that cross in this area to walk their dog either on Kingstree or on the golf course, this is a safe haven for them to take a short break. This is the bottom of that project. This is standing in the drainage channel adjacent to Saguaro and Kingstree, looking east. This is that finished up. This is a relatively large structure. As you can see here, we have two 24-inch pipes. The reason the remainder Page 39 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES of this concrete is here is to deflect some of that energy off of that water, reduce the flow, and for lack of a better description, create sort of an eddy here and allow that water to enter this under crossing at a slower speed in the volumes that it's coming through. This is the next phase. I would like to note that all of those improvements were a little bit over $80,000. All of the design was in-house by the town engineer and the assistant engineer. I'll mention their names, David Janover, Andy Whistler, and myself. We utilized existing either Maricopa Association of Government detail specifications or the Arizona Department of Transportation. Phase two. I had mentioned earlier about the water overtopping in this area and eroding that slope there. Not all of the water went there. And you can see here that there is no drainage structure or any curb openings in this, so the water simply overtops the sidewalk, and it also travels downstream. I would like to point out this area here. What you can't see -- and it's not a very good vision. We'll look at a different angle. This is a berm made out of river rock and has some shrubs on top of it that was constructed by this homeowner. This is a masonry fence right here. The water that came down here overtopped this curb in this area and traveled into here, here, around in here, and eventually down onto this cul-de-sac. This homeowner took action on his own to protect his property by creating, again, this river rock berm and this masonry wall around his property. The improvements that we are making now will help support that homeowner's investment. This is what it looks like behind the curb near that area. And this is after several rounds of maintenance. Any amount of nuisance water causes this erosion. For this next phase right here, our intent is to construct a very similar but a little bit different shaped scupper. That is a drainage structure that goes under the sidewalk. This one will be shallower because under the sidewalk on that side we have Salt River Project and Cox Communications and Lumen communications, so we can't do the typical catch basin there. Out of the back of that structure will be a concrete channel that leads to the existing concrete channel and/or cart path down in the bottom. Page 40 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES With all of that said, if you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them. MAYOR DICKEY: Any questions for Justin before we check for cards? All right. Do we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: Mayor, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilman Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Simply a motion to approve. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. GRZYBOWSKI: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Can we do a roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. Thank you, Justin. Thanks. WELDY: You're welcome. MAYOR DICKEY: And your crew there. Our next item is applications for electric message center signs. So Rachael? Or would you like to kick it off, Brenda? KALIVIANAKIS: Sure. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just an overview of what we're going to be discussing tonight is a gentleman named Frank Quinn -- actually, he's in the room -- approached the town probably eight to ten months ago with an idea. And his idea was Page 41 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES to take the burned -out former Mexican restaurant as you come into Fountain Hills from the Beeline Highway. It was an eyesore. It looked terrible. It was a greeting. It's like, welcome to Fountain Hills. We have a burned -out building. So Frank said, you know what? I can take that building. I could build a nice coffee shop, call it Fountain Hills Roasters (ph.), and also put a sign company in there too. He began to do that, and they had a little trouble with the permitting because that was post-COVID. And they needed to do a multiphase permitting process because the typical process that we were doing didn't work. So he reached out to myself and Councilman Friedel. We had a meeting with him to accommodate the specialists, the engineers, the fire people, the flooring people, the building people. And so we were doing the permitting one at a time. They said, well, it's going to cost a lot more money in permits, but in order to get it done, he was willing to pay the money. And we took it to John Wesley and developmental services. And through him and the intelligent people in that department, we got it done. And so I was very thrilled that we were going to have that turned into a great business -- two business, actually -- that will provide revenue to our town and look good on the way in. And so he's begun the process. They've been framing it, they've been building it, and there's an anticipated done date. And so I really appreciated what he was doing. So that's the overview of what I'd like to talk to tonight. We recently passed the sign ordinance that even though he brought a sign company from Mesa to Fountain Hills, we banned electronic signs, which is what his business is. And so I think there was a 30-day window for anybody that wanted an electronic sign to make an application and turn it into the town. Based on that shot clock, four businesses decided that they did want to get an electronic sign, and so they made application to Frank. One of these was Francis & Sons Car Wash. From the way I understand it, they were on the decline, struggling a little bit, like many businesses are right now. We're in very tough economic times. And you talk to a lot of people and a lot of business owners in this community, and they're struggling. And so there's four entities, including Frank wanted a sign too, and said, you know, we'd like to get in on this. And so they took the applications on time and in a Page42of63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES timely basis, and Frank was in the process of submitting them to the town. His secretary that handles that, Veronica (ph.), she was processing the application. She processed two of them, and then she had a medical emergency. She had to get rushed to the hospital, and Frank provided proof of that. So we didn't just have to take his word, because in this day and age and this society, a lot of people fib. But it wasn't a lie. It was a real thing. She was rushed to the hospital, and they couldn't fill the two applications. And so they couldn't get the applications in for one additional day. And those applications were declined. So he reached out to me and he said, hey, Brenda, you know, we had a little problem here, explained what happened. And he said, you know, could you talk to the people in the town and see if we can, you know, make an arrangement based on the hardship? And so that's when I reached out to Rachael and to the mayor, and they were gracious enough to put this on the agenda in kind of an expedited fashion. So thank you very much for doing that for me and trying to get this out into the public hearing to see what we should do about this. It was around 18 months ago that I participated in the candidate forum. But when I was still running for office, one of the questions that they asked Cindy (ph.), Hannah, Allen, and myself was, what are you going to do with the vacant storefronts in Fountain Hills? And so we all gave our answers of what we would do to get businesses in here and fill the vacant storefronts. As we all know, that's a problem. A lot of people talk about it. What are you guys going to do to get businesses in here? And so it's important. And so now we have a chance to alleviate a problem for one of our businesses that might go out of business. And then there'll be a for -lease sign on the front of Francis & Sons Car Wash, and there'll be one less business in town. That's the worst case scenario. And I always kind of deal with worst case scenarios. So at that forum I said, we have to do everything we can to be pro -business. And I still, I hold by that. We should do everything we can to be pro -business. It was around six months ago there was an article in the Arizona Business Exchange, and I made a statement when they interviewed me that I didn't really think Fountain Hills was a Page 43 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES business -friendly town. And I know a lot of people said, why are you throwing your own town under the bus, Brenda? Well, you know, facts are facts. And I think that we have room to improve welcoming businesses here and keeping businesses here. And it's important that they think -- the businesses think we have their back. Okay? If they don't and if they think, well, this council and this town, they just don't care about businesses, then they won't bring them here. They won't. And we'll keep suffering. So now we're sitting here. We have a possible hardship exemption for a gentleman that is doing so much good. The projected costs for Fountain Hills Roasters was $1.5 million. Now it's up to $1.7 million. So he's got a lot of skin in the game. The people, this dais, I know that there's this, well, they didn't get it in on time. No exceptions. It's a rule. Well, we're not computers up here. The computers think in binary terms. One, zero. Yes. No. Yes. No. Yes. No. We're people. They elect people. They elect people that are going to make good judgments and good decisions. The people are relying on us to understand their problems and to work on their behalf as an elected official. That's what I do. I help people. I help constituents all the time because that's my job. And I'm not a computer and I do have compassion. And so I don't like that "we can't make any exceptions" thing. The other thing I'd like to mention is that I asked Betsy LaVoie from the chamber -- I said, this is the situation we have. What do you think, Betsy? And I think all of us respect her. And she's great. And so she said, please, support the approval of the applications for the two electronic messaging signs submitted by Brilliant Signs LED company. Due to frequent changes in the sign ordinance, businesses often struggle to understand these regulations. Considering the business's positive contributions towards our town and the Chamber of Commerce, which he is a member of the chamber, and the recent move from Mesa to Fountain Hills, let's demonstrate our willingness to collaborate with our businesses facing challenges. Additionally, it's important to note that LED signs are dark sky compliant, contrary to what people say. And I know there's a lot of common cards tonight, and many of them were, you know, we're for dark skies. We're not for LED electronic signs. These signs Page 44 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES are LED compliant with our dark skies laws. And so I don't think that that should be a reason that we don't approve this. The last thing I'd like to say is Frank made this very generous offer -- because he's going to have this sign that was the one that came in one day late, that they have eight - second intervals and they have a different thing. So it could be, you know, enjoying hamburgers at Wendy's, go to Phil's, that sort of thing. He offered to have eight seconds a minute dedicated to Fountain Hills promotion. So we'll have a sign coming in off the Beeline Highway, welcome to Fountain Hills. We can put anything we want on there. We can promote our festivals; we can promote our downtown; we can promote our businesses. It's really up to us what we want to promote. It was very gracious for Frank to offer that and we could use that. It'II be an exciting addition to Fountain Hills, and it will be a really nice welcome to Fountain Hills. And so I appreciate his gesture and his offer to do that. And so tonight, I would implore this council to vote yes for these one -day -late applications and let's show our humanity. It's just the right thing to do. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman? TOTH: Thank you. Excuse me. As most of you know, in the original sign ordinance -- or in the one we just voted on, rather, I was against the ban on LED signs. So I don't think it's going to come as a shock to anyone that I am supportive of this. I fully understand not wanting to change our ordinances, not wanting to -- how do I say -- make exceptions. But I think in a situation like this, it calls for an opportunity for government to show some compassion. It was due to a medical emergency that the deadline was missed, and obviously I'm for allowing this. MAYOR DICKEY: Sharron? GRZYBOWSKI: I know we've had a whole bunch of sign changes and sign conversations and just sign everything in the past year and a half. During the course of the last 10 years, or 11 years, or whatever it is that the electronic message signs have been allowed, has it ever been removed in any of our changes? I don't know if you want to speak to that or if that's -- no? So it's been allowed for 10 years or 11 years. And during Page 45 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES all of these various changes, that I know have been confusing because we're all confused too, so we've never actually taken that ability away from them in the past 10 or 11 years. Okay. So that being said, I might be talked into the new business, making an exception for them. But I'm sorry, this subject has come up over and over and over again, and the residents do not like the electronic message signs. I just want to say no to both. But I could be talked into the new business. I'll let somebody else speak now. MCMAHON: I am a hard no, to use your verbalization of it. We have been talking about this sign ordinance ad nauseum. I think this is about the seventh time in less than a year. It was a majority vote to vote this sign ordinance in and stop LED lights. And in fact, Brenda, you were so emphatic about this, you were a hard no. I hate these signs. I doubt they even comply with our dark sky community. I don't know how you can be backtracking on this. You know, and this isn't the first time that's happened. As far as the staff goes, I think it's really unfair for us to put them in a position to have to sit there and go, hmm, hmm, who are we going to make an exception for? That's not their job. Their job is to enforce the sign ordinance that the majority of this council voted in. They need the guidance, they need the consistency, and everything else in order to appropriately process applications. I'm not for exceptions. I don't think there's a compelling excuse for this. As the owner, he's a business owner. Like all business owners, you choose where you want your business. He chose a burnt -out business. He's been fixing it, I understand, for about a year and a half. I'm sure this is costing him a lot of money. But if you're a business owner, you have a business plan, you have a marketing plan, especially if you have a sign business. I would think one of the things that you would mostly pay attention to is the town sign ordinance and the requirements, size, et cetera, of what are required for a sign. And as far as the burnt -out building, while I appreciate that and it is an eyesore, I don't think it's a reason to give an excuse for a late application. Also too, as an owner, just like in law, it's up to the attorney -- the attorney accepts the responsibility of making Page 46 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES sure any motions are timely filed with the court. And if not, guess what? They build a statute. Then the judge doesn't care. They don't get an exception. Very rare, if at all. I think that, you know, as far as the timing of this, he's had notice, like everybody else in town, about the new sign ordinance. He's had 30 days. Who waits until the last day to file an application in case there is an emergency? You know, and as the person responsible, the owner, for filing that application, and now turning around and blaming it on his assistant, who had a private medical emergency that is now public -- I don't think that's appropriate. I think that's very unprofessional. Again, I have not heard a compelling reason to add LED signs in the entryway to our town. It's going to be like having lit -up billboards. And if you look at the architectural-ness of that particular small shopping site, it is small. They have the business -- the businesses have lighted signs on their buildings, which is acceptable and fine. They also have built -out monument signs. Wendy's doesn't have an LED sign. Another business doesn't. One has a very small one. So as far as, you know, looking and purchasing your business in that particular shopping center, you knew that going into it; you didn't take timely steps to make a change for that. And I just don't think that this is an appropriate exception request. And no offense, Brenda, but especially by someone who was so adamant about not allowing LED signs. And the Planning & Zoning Committee doesn't want them anymore either. They have sufficient signage on their property. And I think it's coincidental that a business across the street, who's been there for years and years and years, is now all of a sudden asking for an exception and has also coincidentally filed a late application. They have a lighted sign and a monument sign. I think that's sufficient. I do not want our entry into Fountain Hills to look like a lit -up billboard. I think that's distasteful and distracting. And again, I have yet to hear a compelling reason to make an exception to an item that was a majority vote and you were a hard no on in the first place. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Before we go on, can I ask you if we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. We have -- in your packet, as Councilmember Kalivianakis alluded to, we do have one person who is in favor, and then the remaining Page 47 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES 22 were against. In person, we have three comment cards. First, we'll have Crystal Cavanaugh, and on deck, we'll have Ed Stizza, and after Ed, Frank Quinn. CAVANAUGH: Good evening. I'm going to refer to the staff report. In the staff report it outlines that Planning & Zoning reviewed and considered modification to the town's sign regulations during the period of April through September of this year. As part of that review, it was determined that electronic message centers are not compatible with the small town dark sky nature of Fountain Hills. On September 11th, the Planning & Zoning Commission voted to recommend a new ordinance, which eliminated this type of sign and prohibited additional electronic signs. The town council, this council, voted to adopt this new ordinance on October 17th, and it was in effect on November 16th. So anyone wishing to apply for this type of electronic sign essentially had most of 2023 to do so. Most of you on this very council agreed that approving more electronic signs here was undesirable. And some also expressed concerns about being lit up like a little Vegas. If you start giving exceptions for things like a 12-foot-tall, 50-square-foot electronic sign, where does it end? Who else gets the special treatment? Who does not? What's the criteria to get the special exemption? How many days after a deadline is acceptable? Is two days past a deadline okay, or is one month also okay? This isn't some archaic out- of-date ordinance on the books that hasn't been looked at in years. It was just passed in October and went into effect in November. Would you allow me to put up a beautiful electronic orange -and -blue flashing reclaim our town sign if I now requested it? I think you get my point. We have ordinances to provide consistent guidelines to follow regarding what is acceptable here in Fountain Hills and what is not. This is nothing personal against these two applicants, but they filed past the deadline, which prohibited electronic message center signs. They will still have signage. I encourage the council to uphold the ordinance and vote no. MENDENHALL: Ed? STIZZA: Good evening again. And I want to say a couple of things about this. And again, Page 48 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES this goes back to my first call to the public. Here goes our dark skies. I just want everybody to tell me how good the MCO sign looks. Boy, it's a beauty, isn't it? I'll tell you, it's blowing our dark skies. So whoever approved that, whoever did that is absolutely -- it's an eyesore. That is a true eyesore. So it's a problem. It's also a safety hazard. So if you pull out of that intersection -- I know we've talked about redoing that area of roadway to turn and also whatever with entrance right there -- you have a problem. You have a big problem with the Tight there. It is extremely bright. Whoever approved it -- again, who's looking 360 degrees? So as you vote on this, take a real good look at continuing this. I feel bad for these owners, but my God, they should be filing something with their construction crews because how long does it take to rebuild a building? My God, that's been going on for how long now? So I feel bad for them. But at the same token, we got to stop this. We have to stop lighting up Fountain Hills. We have done enough of it, and we're continuing to do it. And the MCO signs should give you more than enough fuel to stop this. So I feel bad for the business, but at the same token, my gosh, really, let's pay some attention to what's going on. Please, please help us protect this town on some of these major issues. This is one of the things that we cherish is our dark skies. That's it. And everybody's telling you that. So please vote accordingly. And maybe this business can come up with something else. Maybe they'll change from being a coffee house too, since we have a ton of coffee places here. So now, but yeah. The whole dark sky thing really needs to be looked at. Thank God for the Discovery Center. It's going to be a great asset to this town, but we've got to look at -- I am curious whether or not you can reverse some of this stuff. The MCO signage should be questioned, and it should be questioned on a safety hazard alone. It is a problem. And if you haven't sat there and looked at that at night or coming into Fountain Hills, take a strong look at it. Get out of your car and look at it and watch what that sign does illuminating that area. So please take all that into consideration. So -- and ditto on what Crystal said. So she gave all the details. Thank you. Page 49 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES QUINN: My name is Frank Quinn. I'm the guy that built that MCO sign. I think it's beautiful. I do want to share with you that I do respect the dark skies and there needed to be a separation between those signs, which are in violation of dark skies, and if they are, then they need to be adjusted and brought into dark sky compliance. I'm not against dark sky compliance. I've worked with other cities. The City of Mesa has a part of the sign code that has you measure the X direction, the Y direction, and based on the area you stand so far back from the sign and use your light probe correctly, and adjust the sign based on the table that they have in their sign code. Apache Junction, the same thing. They also have dark skies, and that is based on the same sort of principles, that you measure the area of the sign, and then with standing back at a certain distance because of the area, then you take the measurement and stay within the sign code. So I think it's important to respect the dark sky, but that shouldn't be the reason to hate LED signs. If they're not in compliance, they need to be brought into compliance. And we can help with that to be sure that they are compliant. Or we just turn them off at a certain time. So if that's the real hatred, then we can work together and make this a win -win situation. In terms of the insults about the business and this and that and so forth, I share with you that we were only aware of the sign code change for less than a week. And maybe we should have been, you know, watching the sign code every week. But you know, like the building code being the IBC 2018, the plumbing code, and the NEC 2017 for the electric code, we could go to work every day, we can make decisions, we can borrow money, we can employ people because it's not going to change every week. It's not going to change every month. We can go about not having to read the city council -- what's going to happen. They're going to -- yes, it's in. No, it's not in. It's over it. We have no sign code at all. It's been blown up and now it's back in. Now it's off. Now it's banned. You know, we're actually out there running our business and not watching the city council voting every week or every month. Page 50 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES So in terms of this one, we were aware of the short time we had. We approached most all of the small businesses here, many of which want the small business. Amazing to learn when you go door to door how many businesses are truly suffering here in Fountain Hills. So there's a place where we can have a win -win. If we were all together and everyone on the board there and myself were stockholders in a restaurant, and we are all equal owners of a restaurant, we're going to open an Outback in Fountain Hills, and we get halfway under construction to learn they banned restaurants right when we're in the middle of construction -- so -- MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry, sir, the time is up. QUINN: Has it been -- MAYOR DICKEY: Three minutes. QUINN: -- three minutes yet? MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Well, I'll give you a little bit more. QUINN: Okay. So anyway, I just think that there can be a win -win situation. I know from Francis & Sons, when people go up and down the road there, if they're able to see, he has a decreased pressure pricing on pricing; everyone's going down to 2, $3 car washes. So he's got downward pressure on pricing, increased pressure on labor, and increased pressure on taxes from the city. So if you step into his shoes and you see where they're at, they have increased labor cost, downward pressure on pricing on their product, squeezing him out. And the sign would only help more of the flow that goes through here. There's a lot of money that flows through Shea Boulevard that we can direct to those businesses and to the city. So I think there could be a situation where there's a win -win for everyone. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Wrap up -- QUINN: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: -- please. Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Councilman Skillicorn? Oh, I'm sorry. I don't know which one was on first. So Councilman, Brenda, whatever, whichever you guys decide. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just to address a couple of things that I Page 51 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES just heard right now. With all due respect, Peggy, everything you said did not apply to what I said. MCMAHON: Why? KALIVIANAKIS: It was a non sequitur. It was illogical, because you're acting like I am here to reinstall the sign ordinance and to allow all LED signs. That's what your whole argument was. And that simply is not what I addressed to this audience and to the population and to this council. I was talking about a hardship exception to people that applied in a timely basis, okay, for their signs that were turned in late because it was turned over to somebody whose secretary took ill halfway in between entering these applications. And so I'm not advocating right now to restore unlimited LED signs. That's what you addressed. I'm just here saying that we should give an exception to this business. The argument that they had 11 years to do this and so we have no leniency towards them -- not true. It's not true. This council passed the sign ordinance. Like Frank said, the business owners are working. They're doing what they do. They're not checking out what we do. And so it gets put in the newspaper two weeks later, Fountain Hills passed a sign ordinance. And if you look at that article, at the very end, it said, oh, and by the way, there was a ban in LED signs in Fountain Hills. One sentence. And so they didn't have 11 years. They had, from the time we passed the ordinance, 30 days. And then if they discovered it two weeks later, like Frank said, they had 14 days to respond. These signs are $100,000 each. There's four applications. That's $400,000 worth of business. That's $12,000 worth of tax revenue to this town, okay, by just approving that. So don't give me this argument that they had 12 years. They had from the time it was in the newspaper until the cutoff of 30 days. That's one thing I'd like to say. And like I said before, these applications were taken in a promptly, timely basis. They were remitted to Frank. And due to this hardship, they were just turned in one day late. And so that's the only issue we're talking about here, is are we going to be a business friendly town? And when there is a valid reason, a valid provable reason to file it one day late, or are we going to listen to that merchant and are we going to help them out, Page 52 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES or are we going to just stand our ground? So I just I'd like to clarify that because we're not talking about reinstating the sign ordinance. We're talking about helping a man and four businesses get this thing done. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. You know, there's a saying what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, right? And I was at a trade show there about a month ago. And you know, it is very impressive to see the big lit up sphere and to see the motion, and basically it's like a movie theater going down the strip. But Vegas is a type of place I want to visit; it's not a type of place that I want to live. I love Fountain Hills. I love being a small town. I love that it's dark. I love that it is neighborly. These electronic signs are not neighborly. If you go to Madison Square Garden in New York City, great. It's great to visit. It's not where you want to live. And this is the type of community that I want to live in that is dark and quiet and homey, homely. It feels like home. And just giving an example. Just last evening I'm on Saguaro Boulevard. I had just left 87, so I was going westbound and I was going to turn north. I'm sorry, it's Shea Boulevard. And I was going to turn north on Saguaro, and literally the MCO sign lit up so bright, to see the lanes painted in the road, I had to go like this and block the sign. Now, I know that they can adjust the sign. I know it can be turned down, but it's not in effect right now. It's not even compliant right now. And this is a trend that I see. These electronic LED signs are not neighborly. And to the other people that -- other organizations that submitted them, please don't. Please don't go through with it. It's not something we want for our town. And I'm going to vote no for this. And I was adamant about this, and I was so glad that Planning & Zoning added this. I didn't ask Planning & Zoning to put this in there, but they unanimously put into the zoning requirement to ban these LED signs. I thank them for that, and I thank this council for passing regulation against them. So I would like to keep this in effect. I will be a no vote on this. And I don't want these signs in town. And to the other people that are putting them up that slipped in, frankly, I wish you weren't able to slip in and do that, and please reconsider because it's not very neighborly. Page 53 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor? GRZYBOWSKI: I will have to say I don't think I was talked into even approving it for the new business. I don't think that any of the signs violate our dark skies. But I would like to suggest that staff look into the MCO sign at night and just to confirm that. But I don't think that any of them do. I don't agree with making the exception based on the fact that we're going to get tax dollars out of it. I don't approve of that at all. If you are considering accepting this because of an eight -second -per -minute advertisement for Fountain Hills, then I would ask that you consider that we get that in writing instead of just asking the gentleman to nicely do it for the rest of our lives. And I appreciate that we didn't know that that part of the sign process was changing, that the electronic message signs was changing until well after the council meeting and there was only a week or two weeks or whatever that was. I appreciate that. However, you own a sign company. You are moving to Fountain Hills. As a businesswoman, I can't overlook the fact that I'm building a business. One of the first things I'm going to do is go to town hall and say, hey, John Wesley, what are the rules? What can I do? The fact that he -- I appreciate that we didn't know until the paper came out, but I'm sorry. I just did not get sold to that. I will be a no. And if Councilman Skillicorn actually made a motion over there, then I'm going to second that motion. Thank you. SKILLICORN: I didn't make a motion. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. Then I will make the motion to deny both applications. MAYOR DICKEY: We can take a second and continue discussion for a second. SKILLICORN: I would prefer a motion to approve and vote no. MAYOR DICKEY: Uh. GRZYBOWSKI: What? MCMAHON: What? MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. So you made a motion to deny? SKILLICORN: If someone else wants to second -- Page 54 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES GRZYBOWSKI: Oh. SKILLICORN: -- that's fine, but -- GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. I see what you're saying. So to make it more logical, you would rather vote no to an approval -- SKILLICORN: Right. GRZYBOWSKI: -- because -- okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Would you like to amend your motion? GRZYBOWSKI: Sure. I'll amend my motion to approve both applications. It does make it a little easier to say yes or no that way. MCMAHON: Wait a minute. MAYOR DICKEY: Hold on a second. MCMAHON: That sounds backwards to me. MAYOR DICKEY: No, we're good. SKILLICORN: No, no, we're fine. MAYOR DICKEY: We're good. MCMAHON: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Let -- SKILLICORN: I would second that. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So and we are not done speaking about this, but there's a motion on the table to approve, and a second, and then we will vote on that. MAYOR DICKEY: So -- MCMAHON: One second. I want to know what they're approving. MAYOR DICKEY: So next -- MCMAHON: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: -- is -- MCMAHON: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: -- is Hannah. MCMAHON: Okay. Thanks. TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. I just want to address three of the main topics I've been Page 55 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES hearing, one on Dark skies. The town does already require that electronic LED signs are dark sky -- MAYOR DICKEY: Compliant. TOTH: -- compliant, friendly. Dark skies, we often have -- just a small sidebar, but I promise I'll keep it short. We've been talking about this for 40 minutes. Dark skies, we often have a misperception that it means no Tight. It does not mean no light; it means shielded light. It means that the light isn't being directed upward. So although a light can be possibly very bright and be illuminating an area, it is not necessarily affecting the light pollution of the sky, which is what dark skies would therefore be concerned about. Second of all, I want to make it very clear that the reason I am a yes on this has nothing to do with an offer for the advertisement, with tax money, with the idea of whether or not Fountain Hills is business friendly. I do believe we're a business -friendly town. I believe there's improvements that we can make, just like in any other municipality. But overall, I believe the majority of this council does keep business owners at heart. The reason that I'm a yes on this, once again, is because being a business owner, and yes, a sign business, but when LED signs were allowed for the last ten years or so, and I assume during that conversation that he may have had when he moved to Fountain Hills to start his business with John Wesley, John said, yes, we allow LED signs. And then, yes, there's different conversations happening about the sign ordinance. I can understand checking in here or there, but I can also see why 30 days wasn't quite enough time. When the paper announces it two weeks later, and that's where you find out about it, and you're busy running your business, we put this gentleman in a very difficult position, and I want to be very mindful of that. The fact that he still made the effort to make that deadline and was held up by a medical emergency, this is such an extreme situation that I don't see happening again, that this isn't something to me that I'm worried about what precedent it sets. It's not removing the ban on LED signs, which I did disagree with in the first place. They're $100,000 signs. I don't think -- the vast majority of businesses would not be able to afford them anyway. And then second of all, they're not Vegas -style signs. I'm very Page 56 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES confused by the Vegas language. I've been to Vegas. We're a very, very different town, morally, light -wise. Just throwing it out there. Age demographic. Anyway, I'll hop off my soapbox now. SKILLICORN: Hmm. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? MCMAHON: I'm not reiterating or revoting about the signed ordinance at all. I'm addressing what's in front of me on this agenda item, period. And that's what I addressed. I specifically talked about this particular business and I talked about the process. And I also talked about how -- what you said and how you treated these LED signs yourself. That's it. So I'm not going back through the sign ordinance. I hope to heck we don't because, again, it's been like seven times we've done this. It has been in the newspaper every single time we've talked about the sign ordinance. Everybody gets the same notice. KALIVIANAKIS: No. MCMAHON: So -- and again, I do not think that there is a compelling reason to make an exception. Period. MAYOR DICKEY: Brenda? KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. I think the first time this was in the newspaper was after we passed the ordinance. And so I think that's a misstatement that it's been in the newspaper several times. I had my light on, and Councilwoman Toth kind of stole my thunder, because in your very thoughtful reply, you answered just what I wanted to say. If there are certain signs that aren't dark sky compliant, then that's what we have code enforcement for and they can adjust the signs to make them compliant. And then the other thing I'd like to address was what the vice mayor said, and this Hannah repeated, is, yeah, when Frank did come to this town a year ago and had that conversation with John Wesley and said, hey, is this a LED -friendly town? He's like, sure, you can put them in there. So you know, to say that he didn't do his due diligence, I think, is insulting to him. He did his due diligence, and LED signs were welcome when he Page 57 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES came to town. MAYOR DICKEY: Hey, John, I'm sorry, but I have a couple of questions. One would be this compliance discussion on other LED signs. Is there a way -- like, I know that Ed mentioned approval. Well, we don't approve the signs because they were in the sign ordinance. So anything that came in since 2012, we never had to approve or anything. How can you address the compliance issue with dark skies on some of these? WESLEY: Yes, Mayor. We do get complaints from time to time about some of the signs. And there are specific requirements in the code for the nighttime lighting. Measurements have been done. Adjustments have been made where necessary. We've not received any complaints about the MCO sign. They are, particularly these newer ones like that, are preprogrammed through their computer software that automatically adjusts them to the correct settings. And so my belief would be that that's what happens with that particular sign as it does with others. If we need to go out and have it tested, which we can, and when we do find and find any violations, like all things, we notify the owner to address it and bring it into conformance. MAYOR DICKEY: So thank you. So as far as you know, the signs that we have, because there are a few others in town, of course, are in compliance, and if they're not, we do the tweaking. So that will happen. WESLEY: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: I would like your take on the permitting delay issue. Is that something that we're being blamed on or the issue of permitting being so confusing and all these different steps, and what is that about? WESLEY: I guess I'm not sure, Mayor, because I don't think it's confusing. We had a strong complement a few weeks ago when we held our Developers Advisory Forum about how easy it is to process applications here with the software we have. So yeah. I'm not sure what the issue there is or confusion might be. MAYOR DICKEY: So there's no delay or issue on our part to prevent this from moving forward or the work on the building itself, because it has been presented when this item came up and then again tonight that there was some issues with the permitting. Page 58 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES WESLEY: Well, Mayor, okay. Going back specifically to that issue, Mr. Quinn was having some challenges with the different subs and being able to submit a total package at one time like we normally see and would normally process. And so after meeting with him and with the two council members, we did agree to modify our process a little bit and take things in pieces and process them that way to help him move along a little faster to get him to a permit. MAYOR DICKEY: So council people had to change our process; is that what you're saying? WESLEY: Well, with some understanding, meeting with Mr. Quinn, and discussing with him the problems that can be created when we take things in pieces, and his understanding about what those were and how it might affect his project, we work with him to agree that upon the steps to be taken to do things a little bit out of the ordinary process. MAYOR DICKEY: Um -hum. WESLEY: As I recall, he ended up getting everything all together and submitting all at once, ultimately, instead of really doing the pieces that we talked about. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So any talk of this being delayed is not the fault of the town or your department or anything? WESLEY: I don't believe so, Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I have another just to remind me. The sign ordinance that was originally passed by this previous council, that was passed in November of 2021. Do you remember that? WESLEY: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we had a sign ordinance in place since November of 2021, and now I'm done asking you questions. So now what we're hearing is all this confusion and all these complaints about the sign ordinance changing over these years, and I am not -- over the two and a half years or whatever it was. And some of us up here never voted to change it in the first place, and it would have been in place with the electronic signs. Page 59 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Let's even go back further. On the council in 2012, I voted no for the sign ordinance simply because of these electronic signs. So it was five to two; it passed. Electronic signs went into place in 2012. I would never want this town to be a part of that, though. I would never want eight seconds or anything. I don't want to participate with an electronic sign that I didn't want in 2012, and why would I do anything to add to the ones that we now have? Again, the majority of this council agreed with P & Z to prevent more. Let's just take the sign part out, the electronic part out of it. That said, we're supposed to be fair and consistent in our ordinances and our rules. We should back staff, and they're trying to enforce laws that we put in place. We're enacting them. And so we need to refrain from undermining them on the decisions that they have to make by allowing exceptions and creating doubt in residents and in businesses and in staff. That's being business friendly. I am pro -business. I'm pro all of the businesses who have to comply with the laws that we have in place. And the staff and the entire community should know what's expected of them. And granted, all these changes in the sign ordinance since 2021 have made it difficult. But again, the newspaper thing, I don't really buy that because it was in P & Z; it was on an agenda before. So the meeting was September 11th. Yeah. But before that, I mean they have an agenda that has it out there, so you know that signs are being discussed. Then they take electronic signs away. That's known. Comes to us, and then there's a month even after we voted to do it. So I don't think we should be continuing to second guess. We continue this pattern of revisiting seemingly every decision we've made in the last two years. I can't support overriding this ordinance, and I won't do that. And that's just the way I feel about it. I think, Gerry, you're next. FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. Frank, I just want you to know that this is not an easy decision for this council. We appreciate the fact that you have your business here in town. And I don't think we hate LED signs. We are business friendly, but deadlines are important, and it's a part of the ordinance, and I can't see myself getting past the deadline issue with this request. So I just want you to know, we appreciate the fact that Page 60 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES you have your business here. We think it's going to be great for the town. And in fact, Brenda and I felt that so much that we went to schedule a meeting with John to help streamline the process for you when you were having problems with supplies and subs and contractors and that sort of thing. So I hope that shows you that we do appreciate the fact that you're in our town. But again, I can't see myself getting past this deadline issue. I'm sorry. MAYOR DICKEY: Hannah? TOTH: I think I was just going to request if we could go ahead and vote. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. I don't think we need to vote on that. I think -- I mean, you're calling for the question, but I think we're in agreement. TOTH: Yeah. I don't want to officially say call for the question. MAYOR DICKEY: I got you. TOTH: Can we just -- MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Appreciate it. All right. We have a motion and a second to approve the LED sign. MCMAHON: Two. MAYOR DICKEY: So let's do a roll call vote, please. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: So -- MAYOR DICKEY: It's a motion to approve the exception. MCMAHON: I don't want to approve the exception. MAYOR DICKEY: Right. So vote no. SKILLICORN: Vote no, yep. MCMAHON: Because the motion's written differently. So no. MENDENHALL: Yeah. MCMAHON: I don't want to approve it. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? Page 61 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES FRIEDEL: Nay. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: No. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Nay. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: No. Thank you, everyone. Our last item is discussion direction to town manager. We did have some speakers. Rachael, one was about the Maricopa County Attorney. So we have to bring back those ordinances, I think, in some way, or make them -- I don't know. I mean -- GRZYBOWSKI: Are you talking about the urban camping -- MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. GRZYBOWSKI: -- because that's -- MAYOR DICKEY: Because I don't want to have something on the books -- GRZYBOWSKI: -- I was going to request that. MAYOR DICKEY: -- that's unenforceable. So -- MCMAHON: That's not right -- MAYOR DICKEY: -- we either can change it -- I'm sorry. MCMAHON: It's not -- MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. MCMAHON: -- enforceable anyway right now. MAYOR DICKEY: So this is direction to look into that. MCMAHON: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: Yep. Number two, the fire buffer item will be brought back. And whatever you need for that, let us know. And then, Ed, well, you had brought up -- oh, there you are. You brought up, I think, some stuff about some areas in town, and you said you might be emailing us. But I just xae._au e3LV Page 62 of 63 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS DECEMBER 5, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES wanted to point out that some areas you're talking about are private property, so there's just so much our ordinances and such take care of. But we look forward to seeing your email and addressing that. Did anybody hear any other comments that they think need to go to town manager? No. Okay. Our last item is our future agenda items. Brenda? KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. What I'd like to put on the future agenda is for us to give our town staff guidance on artificial intelligence and its implementation in our town. It's a really important issue, and a lot of other towns have been looking into that just so we can -- just the council can set a policy for our staff on how we go forward with this technology. I don't know if anybody saw the 60 Minutes report this weekend, but right now, this week they're unraveling this quantum computing that is going to take even the fastest supercomputer that we're using right now and make it -- they're going to make them obsolete. It can compute what would take a million years by the most current supercomputer and do all those calculations in 15 minutes. And so as artificial intelligence starts coming into businesses and into municipalities, I think our town staff needs direction on how to proceed. So I'd like to put that on a future agenda. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. How do I know it's really you saying that? Any other items? We're adjourned. Thank you. Page 63 of 63 Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on December 5, 2023, at 7:56 p.m. ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS ,ems { Gin Dicke Mayor y endenhall, Town Clerk CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 5t1 day of December 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 17'h Day of January 2024. i ndenha Li da G. M II, Town Clerk