HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023.1227.TCSP.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
December 27, 2023
A Special Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened via
Microsoft Teams at 3:00 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Sharron Grzybowski;
Councilmember Gerry Friedel: Councilmember Peggy McMahon;
Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth;
Councilmember Allen Skillicorn
Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D.
Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Approximately two members of the public were present.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
Town Council Special Meeting Minutes
December 27, 2023
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: That's good. Well, my computer says it's 3 o'clock. So I will call this
meeting to order. Can we have a roll call, please?
MCMAHON: Who's Laurie, the guest?
MENDENHALL: Mary Dickey? Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? I don't believe he's here, but let's check.
Councilmember Skillicorn?
GRZYBOWSKI: He's probably having trouble like everyone else.
MAYOR DICKEY: He didn't reply.
MENDENHALL: Yeah. He didn't reply, so. And you did not want to do the statement of
participation --
MAYOR DICKEY: No.
MENDENHALL: -- since we're not having a call to the public.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think Rachael's going to kind of lay out the meeting a little bit.
Rachael?
GOODWIN: Thank you. Can everybody hear me okay?
GRZYBOWSKI: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: You're a little muffled.
GOODWIN: A little muffled? Okay. This is my first time using earbuds to do this. So it's
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
a little new to me too. So I will speak up.
And then, if everybody could go ahead and probably mute. It looks like we have a
couple of guests on here. So other than, if -- unless you're a councilmember, that might
be helpful.
Today's meeting is a special meeting that is not part of our regularly scheduled public
sessions. So in an effort to be succinct, we're going to forego the standard procedures
of the Pledge of Allegiance and the statement of participation, and begin with the
singular agenda item as listed.
Mayor, if you're okay with that, I will go ahead and introduce the item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
GOODWIN: The item before you is a request from the Chamber of Commerce, in
conjunction with The Avenue Merchants Association, for their Wine Walk event
scheduled for January 12th.
Per requirement by the State Alcohol Beverage Control and town policy, council
approval is required for all special event liquor license applications. Generally, staff
advise all applicants to submit alcohol applications at least six weeks in advance of the
event date, to allow adequate time for the application to be reviewed by council and the
state liquor board. Given the numerous events the Chamber hosts annually, they are
familiar with the requirements for both the state and the town as well as the suggested
timeline.
The request for approval by the Chamber for this event was received on Wednesday,
December 20. The next regular meeting of the council is scheduled for January 17th
which, obviously, is past the intended event date.
The event details are outlined in your packet; however, we can answer any detailed
questions if needed. And I'd like to thank Betsy for joining us. I imagine she can answer
any additional questions about the event or the application as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Rachael.
Any discussion or motion?
GRZYBOWSKI: I would like to move to approve as written.
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
MCMAHON: Second.
TOTH: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We have a --
KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to open a discussion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we have a motion and a second on the floor for approval.
And we're open for discussion. Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I'd just like -- I think we're kind of in a
unique position here. I did send the Mayor and the council my thoughts on this meeting
today. I'll flesh them out a little bit.
I guess, I'm in the enviable position -- it was only the last council meeting that we
discussed the Fountain Hills Roasters (ph.) and the Frank Quinn application for a one -
day extension on his permit. Usually, we have to go back to a year or two, and possibly
even a former council to determine what precedents have been set by this council and
what guidance we're going to take going forward. We, literally, only have to go back
two weeks to determine that we did have a petitioner that had four applications -- two
of which were filed, two of which were in the hands of his manager when she took an
emergency -- she had to go to the hospital. It wasn't a private emergency as was stated
last council meeting. It was very public. She was at work and she was processing her
applications and they didn't get processed in time.
At that time, we unfortunately got off the beaten trail and we didn't talk about the item
that was put on the agenda, which was whether we should grant an extension or not.
That's what I thought was on the agenda that day. But we went everywhere but there.
We talked about how he didn't know the town code when he located here. How he
didn't know how to file applications. That he had no compelling reason to add
additional LED signs. That this was not an appropriate request. That P&Z didn't want
LED signs and they didn't approve them and they wrote it out of our code.
If you can see -- what I'm trying to say here is -- none of these things were relevant to
the conversation that we had. They said we don't want our entry to look like a bunch of
billboard signs. We said that when the courts handle attorneys' motions, that if they file
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
a motion late, they are not greeted with a welcoming, "give us a good story". They're
summarily discharged, which is actually not true, because the courts of equity can make
exceptions. It goes back to common law.
And so what I'm trying to say is we were really off base last time and all they were
requesting was a one -day extension.
Now, here we are today, two days after Christmas with another petitioner, the Chamber
of Commerce, who is very valuable to our community. I certainly hope, today, that we
don't all talk about the Chambers' policies and whether we think they're doing a good
job and whether they filed this petition on time and whether we dislike the fees that
they charge for the merchants in the Chamber. Whether the last mixer was one that we
would have enjoyed having it at Adero versus DC Grill and get this minutiae of things
that are irrelevant to what we're talking about today -- which is, I feel like, what we did
two weeks ago.
And it's just a group of us today -- it's a small group of us today, and I just have to get
this off my chest because that was something that I found very offensive -- the
petitioner Frank found very offensive. I talked to him several times and he simply didn't
understand why we attacked him so personally.
MAYOR DICKEY: Brenda, I'm going to --
KALIVIANAKIS: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- take a chance here and say that we're getting a little off the agenda
as well. And I'm going to let Peggy speak and then we can continue the discussion, if
that's okay? She wanted to --
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Yeah, I would like to make the point that I was trying to get to,
but certainly.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, go ahead. Go ahead, but I just don't want to get too far off of
this one.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. I understand. And I'll get to the point.
So I guess that the point that I'm making today is, I think we have an apples and apples
situation and I think this council spoke last time, vehemently, that we don't change
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
precedent and we don't make variations based on late applications. And so it just
seems to me that if we're going to do what we say we're going to do, and if we're going
to vote the way we say we're going to vote, and if we're going to avoid a situation that
looks like we're helping our friends, and we're not helping those who are not our
friends, then it seems to me that myself and Hannah would vote for this extension and
that the other five would, on principle, I would think, vote against it because it doesn't
fit the criteria of late applications that was established in the last council meeting. And I
will give up the floor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Brenda.
Councilwoman McMahon?
MCMAHON: Can everybody hear me?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
MCMAHON: Brenda, I appreciate what you're saying. But I don't agree with you in the
sense, this is not apples to apples. This is apples to oranges, or whatever fruit you want
to call it.
What is before us is a liquor license. Period. It's not an exception to the sign ordinance,
which is basically what that late application had to do with. This is a -- it's like an event.
It's not an ordinance and it's not allowing an LED sign, something that's much more -- no
offense, Betsy -- in my opinion, significant in comparison. This is customary routine
liquor license. An exception to brand-new sign ordinance that was installed, that the
majority voted against LED signs, including yourself. I'm not rubbing that in your face;
I'm just telling you, I don't think this is the same situation at all.
This is a routine liquor license application that, ultimately, is going to be approved or not
approved by the state. And, you know, I don't think they've ever been late before. And
this is another issue that I want to see on the agenda, because I don't think we even
need these on the consent agenda, especially since the state approves the license
eventually.
But that's getting off the beaten track here. I just don't think it's the same thing, and I
don't mean to insult you, but I say that respectfully. It's not the same thing at all. And
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
it's unfortunate that that man is upset, but it's two different things in my opinion.
Thank you for your time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any further comments?
GRZYBOWSKI: Actually, if I may, Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: If I may --
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry. Go ahead. I can't see on the phone. Sharron, go ahead.
GRZYBOWSKI: I agree with Councilwoman McMahon. The previous conversation was
regarding an ordinance, which is something written in our town ordinance. This
particular conversation is regarding a suggested time frame for turning in an application.
This is something we review all the time. It gets lumped in with the consent agenda.
They had a person fill out an application that missed the fact that we didn't have a
meeting the 1st of January, like we usually do. And I feel like we have completely gone
off rails and are talking about a subject that is not a part of our agenda, and I have a
problem with that.
So I feel like we need to stick with what our agenda says and I would like to call for a
vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Okay. If you're calling for the question, I need five yesses, I
think.
KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to make one further comment.
MAYOR DICKEY: She's calling -- are you calling for the question, Sharron?
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah.
MCMAHON: She called for a vote.
TOTH: Can I second that motion?
GRZYBOWSKI: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And then, Brenda, I'm sorry but we have to vote on the call to
the question. My --
KALIVIANAKIS: All right. Just point of order. Point of order.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
KALIVIANAKIS: I would like for our town attorney to look into this call to the question
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
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and probably talk to Joe Neglia who's the number one parliamentarian in the state,
because the call to the question is not appropriate here and it is not designed to cut off
debate --
MAYOR DICKEY: It absolutely is.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- because one side gets the most and so I would be requesting our town
attorney look into this because all this is doing is limiting the debate of this council, that
they -- and on questions --
MAYOR DICKEY: That's, Brenda, the reason --
KALIVIANAKIS: -- that they don't want to hear, like two late applications.
MAYOR DICKEY: We have an attorney here and we'll let him let us know. Aaron, could
you please comment on that, because I know we've heard from Aaron that call to the
question takes precedent over anything else. And that got a second, and so we have to
vote on it before we can discuss anything else.
ARNSON: Yeah. Mayor, that's true. If we have a -- if there is -- and my Internet
apparently gave out at exactly the wrong time. But if there was a motion on the floor
and a second, and then there was a motion to call the question and you got a second,
we need to vote on that and it needs to -- first. And it needs to carry by a five/seven
vote. By a five of seven vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Let's take a roll call vote on calling for the question, please.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: No. Because I had something I wanted to say too.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Nay.
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No.
MAYOR DICKEY: So it failed, right?
MENDENHALL: Yes.
ARNSON: Yes, Mayor. The vote, it fails. Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Gerry, why don't you make your comment, please?
FRIEDEL: So there's two points I want to make and they're relative. Brenda, I think you
have a valid issue or concern. However, there is a difference between the sign and the
liquor application. Because the sign is awfully permanent. So I think that's probably a
big difference in my eyes. So I just wanted to make sure that people understood that
and I think some people were kind of hinting toward that in their explanations as well.
While I think you have a valid point, it's a much more permanent issue that we're
dealing with when it comes to the electronic signs. So I just wanted to make sure
everybody knew what I was thinking on that as well. So with that, I'm done, Mayor.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I promise I'll make it brief. But Gerry,
while I can appreciate what your statement is, I still would just like to go on the record
to say that in both cases, when it came to Frank and now when it comes to the
Chamber, I don't think that we should be looking at the substance of the underlying
issue. I think we should be looking at the underlying issue, which is, do we grant
extensions on late applications or not?
I think that since there is -- as the people don't want the signs, they comingle -- well, if
we can get a chance to get rid of the signs, I'm not voting for the extension. And so
we're comingling two different, distinct arguments. I think that this council, just by the
extraordinary nature of meeting two days after Christmas, realizes that a mistake was
made, a permit was filed late, and we're trying to make a correction so we can have the
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
Wine Walk in January, as has been promoted. And I can appreciate that and I'm going
to vote for it because I was the original person that voted for the one -day extension.
And so I just want to say, I think that we should just keep the two issues, whether we
issue extensions separately from the underlying issue of a Wine Walk or an LED sign. I
think that is irrelevant, even though it's relevant, obviously, to the people who are
voting. That's all I have to say.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I want to say a couple of things. The other one with the
sign ordinance, by saying -- you're saying, oh, it was just a simple extension, that's all we
were asking for. But not allowing us to discuss or let you know why we felt one way or
another about that extension was certainly relevant to it. And it has nothing to do with
something for friends or anything else. This equal treatment was, you asked for the sign
ordinance extension to be on an agenda, and I put it. And then we had seven members
and they voted the way they wanted to. And that's how that came out.
I am treating this item exactly the same way. I put it on an agenda. Everybody has a
right to vote however they want on it. And I don't think this is anywhere near the same
or equal, as what asking to give an extension for any ordinance. But in fact -- the fact
that we didn't give the extension to that one ordinance, I think you're using the word,
"precedent", but I don't really agree with that wholeheartedly because I think items are
different and circumstances are different. And I'm very comfortable voting in favor of
this. And I would like to see if there's any other comments or anything. I don't see any
hands.
In that case, could we get a roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
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DECEMBER 27, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL SPECIAL MEETING MINUTES
TOTH: Aye. With a quick note that this is not any extension. This is a ten-day liquor
license. So they haven't missed any deadline.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Is that your "aye"? To clarify.
SKILLICORN: Aye. Or yes.
MENDENHALL: Yes. Perfect. Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: It passes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, everyone. Is there any further business?
All right. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year. Happy holidays.
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Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Special Meeting
of the Fountain Hills Town Council held via Microsoft Teams on December 27,
2023, at 3:20 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
G ny Dickey, Mayor
ATTEST ND PREPARED BY:
Men nhall, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the
minutes of the Special Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills via
Microsoft Teams on the 27th day of December 2023. I further certify that the
meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 2151 Day of February 2024.
G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk