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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSPAC.2024.0124.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SUMMARY MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION January 24, 2024 1. CALL TO ORDER Chairman Patrick Garman called to order the meeting of the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission at 4:00 p.m. 2. ROLL CALL Members Present: Chairman Patrick Garman; Vice Chairman Geoff Yazzetta; Commissioner Jill Keefe; Commissioner Bernie Hoenle; Commissioner Joseph Reyes; Commissioner Phil Sveum Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Development Services Director John Wesley; Executive Assistant Angela Padgett -Espiritu 3. CALL TO THE PUBLIC Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (not required) on matters NOT listed on the agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction of the Council, and (ii) is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. The Council will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised during Call to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed for discussion and legal action. At the conclusion of the Call to the Public, individual councilmembers may (i) respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to review a matter, or (iii) ask that the matter be placed on a future Council agenda. No one from the public spoke. 4. REPORTS BY COMMISSIONERS AND TOWN MANAGER Town Manager Goodwin: - Invited commissioners to suggest staff presentations for future meetings - Noted the town is currently focused on budgeting for the next fiscal year Commissioner Keefe: - No updates to share Commissioner Hoenle: - Attended a virtual meeting of the Arizona Alliance for Livable Communities - Shared some relevant points from the meeting - Many bills being proposed that may impact town planning - Emphasis on having accountability and measurable goals in plans - Tips for being competitive for grants - Noted there are still funds available in the State Parks and Trail Heritage Fund but competition will likely increase Vice Chair Yazzetta: - No updates to share Commissioner Reyes: - Attended some December activities and meetings as a new Commissioner, and found it interesting to get input from different sources on issues Commissioner Sveum: Shared opinions submitted to Town Council regarding Target and Four Peaks redevelopment plans: Was positive about the design and plans Disappointed by negative comments directed at planning staff and others and hopes for more civil discourse in the future Chair Garman: - Noted former Commissioner Beck resigned after moving from Fountain Hills and inquired about timeline for filling his seat Executive Assistant Padgett -Espiritu: Town will contact previous commissioner applicants to see if interested in the open seat and if needed, will post a recruitment advertisement - Noted recognition for Commissioner Beck at the Feb 21, 2024, Town Council Meeting 5. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the Minutes of the Regular Meeting of January 24, 2024. MOVED BY Vice Chairman Yazzetta to APPROVE the Minutes of January 24, 2024, Strategic Planning Advisory Commission Meeting, SECONDED BY Commissioner Sveum. Vote: 6 — 0 passed — Unanimously 6. PRESENTATION: Plat 208 Group, Zach Brooks. - Plat 208 is an association that governs a downtown area in Fountain Hills, AZ consisting of 120 individually owned properties and businesses The association was formed in the 1970s-1980s to allow for shared parking between businesses instead of each having their own lot The CC&Rs require 100% approval from owners for any major changes, which is nearly impossible due to absentee owners and unengaged stakeholders Parking and multi -use development are ongoing concerns as more residential is added without increasing parking capacity The association is replacing aging asphalt lots over 6 years at a cost of $1M and raising fees to offset costs Vacant lots and absentee owners were identified as problems, with suggestions to incentivize development or sales - The town is working on a parking study and strategic plan to address challenges and advance downtown goals - Key projects the association wants include covered parking, solar canopies, and downtown growth to raise property values Improved communication and involvement between the association and town was discussed 7. UPDATE: Commission Workgroups. - The work group provided an overview of their plans for a community workshop on April 20th to gather input on strategic planning pillars from past plans. They will have interactive whiteboards to collect feedback on topics like the economy, town development, and vision. Their goal is to get 100 participants. - The group discussed logistics for advertising the event and ensuring it complies with open meeting laws since multiple commissioners will attend. - Update provided on their efforts to present to various community organizations about the commission's work. They have so far presented to Rotary clubs, Kiwanis clubs, and other groups. - A schedule of upcoming presentations will be shared with the group - The main action items were finalizing workshop plans, continuing community presentations, and sharing the presentation schedule with the full commission. 8. DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Future Agenda Topics. - The Road Committee - Blue Zones Project - The Downtown Merchants Association 9. COMMENTS FROM THE CHAIRMAN Chairman Garman emphasized the importance of taking notes and remembering presentations for future planning. Suggested that Plat 208 issue needs to be considered in strategic planning. 10. NEXT MEETING DATE: Wednesday, February 28, 2024. 11. ADJOURNMENT MOVED BY Vice Chairman Yazzetta to ADJOURN the meeting of the January 24, 2024, Strategic Planning Advisory Commission Meeting, SECONDED BY Commissioner Sveum. Vote: 6 — 0 passed — Unanimously Chairman Garman adjourned the regular meeting at 5:28 p.m. TOWN OF NTAIN HILLS P •trick Garman, Chairman ATTEST A Angela Padge -Espiritu, Executive Assistant CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 24'h day of January 2024. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this ' • - of February 2024. Ang 'a Padgett- . piritu, Exec tive Assistant TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES Post -Production File Town of Fountain Hills Strategic Planning Advisory Commission Meeting Minutes January 24, 2024 Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Page 1 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. As the chair of the Strategic Planning Advisory Commission I'm going to call this meeting to order on January 24th, 2024. Angela, could you do a roll call for us, please? PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes. Thank you. Chair Garman? CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Here. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Chair Yazzetta? YAllETTA: Here. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Commissioner Hoenle? HOENLE: Here. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Commissioner Keefe? KEEFE: Here. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Commissioner Reyes? REYES: Here. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: And Commissioner Sveum? SVEUM: Sveum, here. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Sveum. I'll get it right one of these days. Sorry about that. And Commissioner Beck will not be with us, and we have a quorum. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. Thank you very much, Angela. Okay. So call to the public. Anybody in person with any comments, any written comments coming through the website? PADGETT-ESPIRITU: I have not received any. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Okay. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yeah. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Thank you. Okay. That's agenda item number 3, for those of those of you that are following along in the agenda. So we're going to head on to number 4. Then we'll start off this afternoon with reports by commissioners and the town manager. And I usually go to my left. So I'm going to start all the way to my right with Town Manager Rachael -- have you start things off. Just shake, shake things up today. Page 2 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES GOODWIN: Gotcha. I wasn't prepared for that. Thanks. Well, welcome back. Happy New Year to everybody. I really don't have too much of an update. I think from our last conversation, you know, we have a number of presentations coming up later this -- as we move through the spring. If there's anybody, particularly from the staff side of things, that you'd like to hear an update from, whether it's a specific project or what they have going on or looking forward please let me know. We'd be happy to get that set up. Otherwise, we are moving forward with budgeting. That is the focus of the spring right now. Setting up our budget for next fiscal year. We'll be moving forward with a number of meetings into February as we draft that and set the priorities with council. Obviously, the strategic plan as well as the general plan are two important guiding documents as we move through that. That's what I've got. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Sorry to ask. It's usually a back and forth. GOODWIN: Sure. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Sometimes there's topics that we ask you for. GOODWIN: Please. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: And then, if things come up that you think we should be aware of, or folks who work for you want to present to us. GOODWIN: Yes. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. GOODWIN: Absolutely. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Okay. Thanks. GOODWIN: Sounds good. Thanks. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Hey, Jill. KEEFE: Hello, sir. Happy New Year, everyone. I have no updates to share. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. Thanks, Jill. Bernie? HOENLE: I attended, on a virtual Zoom meeting, the Arizona Alliance for Livable Communities, and they had a lot of topics at the beginning of the year with the politicians back in session, a lot of bills being floated around. Some of them are going to impact things that I know the town is probably looking at as far as planning goes. There Page 3 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES are a lot of planning efforts that are going on at this time, and they listed a whole bunch of general plans. They also have an individual that gave a pitch on having accountability in the plan, measurable goals; starting off with being a clear scope looking at the budget, ensuring that it's included, preparing action plans with different teams and committees, and have it be a data -driven plan, which doesn't always happen. It gets pretty general and raised up too much. And then how to be competitive for grants. Think of that as you're doing your planning and what you're going to address. And another individual talked about the State Parks and Trail Heritage Fund, saying that there's still money out there to be had. But he says people are finding out about it and the competition will be pretty tough in the next go around it's probably going to be harder to get funds, but right now there still are some funds out there. So I'm not sure if anybody's trying to go after those. And that's really basically it because like I said, they cover a lot of topics, but those were relevant. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. Thank you. Thanks Bernie, for the update. Geoff. YAllETTA: No update from me, but happy New Year, everyone. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: It's moving along, isn't it? Hey Joe, any updates? REYES: I haven't been here long enough to have any updates, but I did attend a lot of activities in December, and a lot of them were fun. And then things like town council meetings. Geoff did a real good presentation. YAllETTA: Thank you. REYES: And it's interesting to get all of the different input from different sources on all of the issues. So I'm looking forward to sharing what we do and how it interacts with the town and all those other people. That's it, thank you. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Thanks, Joe. Phil? Phil, you look pretty busy. I see your picture all over the place now. Thanks. SVEUM: I I attended the December meeting of the city council and provided an opinion on the Target and the Four Peaks redevelopment. And then also submitted my opinion about their plan to the council for their January meeting. And I was very positive about the design and about what their plans were. What I'm disappointed in, frankly, are the Page 4 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES comments about people. There needs to be some -- hopefully will be some changes made. But when those are made directly at planning staff, Amanda, Betsy from the chamber, in a negative, derogatory manner I think it's inexcusable. I really do, and I would hope that people will, regardless of their side on a particular issue, would keep things civil. There's enough acrimonious times amongst the council members. We don't need that to be brought from the public. These are public servants. They do a great job. They have a difficult task, and I would hope that we would appreciate these folks a little bit more. Much more than what seems that many people have a hard time doing. So that's really my only observation. I thought the whole process overall was handled very well by the town and the staff planning department. Congratulations. And again, that's regardless of the actual outcome, I was very pleased with from that perspective. It's just the public needs to be much more civil than it is. Thank you. GOODWIN: Mr. Chair, sorry. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yes, Rachael. GOODWIN: Before you give your update, I wanted to make sure and let you know I can certainly respond to some of the comments made by earlier commissioners, particularly about the civility as well as the Heritage Fund. If you'd like those updates, I can offer them or I can wait till the end however you'd like to do it. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: I think we're in there. I mean, in it right now. GOODWIN: Okay. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: That way it's all together on the notes. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: You got it. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Thanks. Yeah. GOODWIN: So quickly, the Heritage Fund as -- actually the town has been awarded funding from the Heritage Fund grant as part of the last cycle. It is a rolling cycle, but long and short of it is that we actually received quite a bit of funding to do a new restroom building at the Four Peaks Park. So that will be going in, if you're familiar with that park, between the ball fields and the playground area. So right now the restroom is sort of over the bridge and on the other side, and you don't really -- can't really see it. Page 5 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES And if you happen to have a little one, that's a long way to go. So we are using those grants and it is a good resource. It's just a lengthy one for sure. In terms of the civility conversation, I did want to mention that the town recognizes that and is actually planning as the next topic for Fountain Hills Cares, later in March. Angela, remind me if I don't remember the date off the top of my head, but I think it's in March. That is the topic -- is civility. And that's over the community center on -- I don't remember the date off the top of my head, but I bet Angela can find it. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yeah. GOODWIN: Yes, but I think that that's a great comment. And it's recognized for sure. Thank you for letting me interrupt. I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. No, no problem. And for all the commissioners too, to get it back to our mission, there was a time in Fountain Hills where our strategic plan had civility as a pillar, one of our main strategic priorities. So that's, you know what is old is new again. SVEUM: Patrick, that's fine. But it shouldn't need to be a pillar, okay? It should be common sense and maturity. And I guess respectfulness. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: I was just bringing it back to what? SVEUM: Do you have some in writing, don't you? CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. Nothing new under the under the sun. Right. All right. So I'm going to tag team with Angela a little bit at the beginning, I know I usually have comments from the chair at the end, but I wanted to bring up at the beginning here a couple things. First, administrative. Anybody here that doesn't have one of these nice binders, any of the new folks -- I really -- you could tell I've had this my whole time. I still have it. There it is -- do you have a binder? All right. Awesome. Thank you. That's -- ask and you shall receive right there. And then I also wanted to finish up the beginning part. Mentioned our friend Kevin Beck, who has been a commissioner here for the last couple of years, I guess. Time goes really, really fast so I have a hard time pinning that down. But a great friend and a great commissioner. He resigned over the holidays because he's moving out of Fountain Hills, Page 6 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES so hopefully he'll probably let some -- some of you know that. So we'll probably still see him around once in a while, but I know he's going to be living down down in the valley as well as with his family in Indiana. So I just wanted to let everybody know that. And Angela, I didn't know if you had this. Some updates on filling in for Kevin in the future. What the timeline may be. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: That's a good question. Yeah, we did have a couple of candidates at the last round of interviews that were not accepted, but only because there were someone else that we deemed that would fit better. So we're going to look at those. I know the town clerk's going to reach out to them to see if possibly they would be interested in this position. If not, she will be submitting out recruitment. If you know of anyone that you think would be a good fit on this commission, please let me know or her know. And actually, you can fill out the application online if you go under the commission. But we're hoping to get it filled very soon because we understand that this is a very active commission and you need all full seven here. So so we're working on that. And regarding Kevin I'll just state for the record, we will be having -- the mayor and the council will be recognizing him on a -- it's at the town council meeting on February 21st, which will be on a Wednesday due to the holiday. So I will send out a save -the -date in your calendars. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Awesome. That was the main thing I wanted to make sure we put out. Okay. Thank you for that. All right. Good, to my left, to my right. I think we can move on to the next agenda item, agenda item 5. So consideration and possible action. We're going to look at the approval of the minutes of the regular meeting we had way, way back in November, on November 29th, 2023. So just open it up. Does anybody have any comments or possible edits on the minutes from November? Hearing none, do I have a motion on the approval of the minutes from November 29th? YAllETTA: Move to approve. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. Move to approve. A second? SVEUM: Second. Page 7 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Thanks, Phil. We have a second. Any discussion, any further discussion on the minutes? None being heard -- HOENLE: I have just a comment about the summary that's up front. That is a life saver. And then I can go look at specific areas. So thank you Angela. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: You are welcome. I'm glad it's helpful. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Now we need to do is get rid of the verbatim transcript and we'll be fine. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: It helps me -- SVEUM: I just have to make sure that's in the verbatim transcript every month. PADGETT-ESPIRITU: -- do the summary every month. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: We can save the town all kinds of money. Okay. So we're going to move on to a vote now. So motion on the table is to approve the minutes as written. Has everybody had a chance to review the November 29th, 2023 meeting? All in favor say, aye. ALL: Aye. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Any opposed say nay. Hearing none, it passes unanimously. Okay. Thank you, Angela. All right. We're going to move on -- or the minutes are approved. So we'll move on to agenda item 6, which is our presentation for today. Lucky to have Mr. Zach Brooks. He's representing the Plat 208 group for, I'll say, the downtown part of the downtown area, right, for Fountain Hills. BROOKS: Correct. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: We've heard this. We've heard of your organization before, and we always have interest in what's going on downtown, for sure. So thank you very much for coming and addressing us. I think you'll find us very attentive, and we'll probably have a few questions for you as you go along. BROOKS: Well, I appreciate the opportunity to come here and present my day job. I own the Arizona worm farm, so I came straight from work, so that's the attire. My partners and I own a whole bunch of buildings. One of which is the building that houses Page 8 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES Bachelor Pad Barbecue. If you haven't eaten there yet you definitely should. So tract 208. We own those four parking Tots and the drive lanes around those. We represent about 120 businesses. The businesses are independently owned, but the parking lot is jointly, commonly owned and managed and maintained. Our deal with the city when this was created sometime in the late '70s, I believe, early '80s was that we would provide shared parking in lieu of each of us meeting the individual parking requirements. That because it was a bunch of businesses instead of having each one have whatever the city code required for their parking, we would share those lots. And therefore we would each be capable of providing the parking that we needed for our, our customers. The parking lots are jointly owned, and I raise that just to let you know that as president of the association, there's a whole bunch of stuff I can do and many, many, many more things that I can't do. We, the board, can't make some changes based on our CCNRs without 100 percent agreement of our owners. And our typical participation is about a third. So if you came to us as part of your strategic plan and you said, we're going to put a solar panel over your parking lots and we're going to give you all free electricity, I'm not even sure I could get that done. It's just very difficult to get 100 percent of the stuff. And again, we had an opportunity to participate in the discussion about locating a restroom in our tract. And we're not -- we just can't get that done. There are certain things that even though we'd like to -- the board members would like to make happen, some things we can't do without everybody participating. Okay. Some key things we're working on right now. We've begun implementing a six - year plan to replace or update all our parking lots. Parking lots are original. We're replacing a whole bunch of asphalt over the next half a dozen years. The cost to us to do that will be about a million bucks. Our fees have increased as a result of that and will again next year. And so we're going through some potential fee generating analytics to see if we can help offset some of those costs. And just a FYI, there's a lot of energy on our board about trying to raise some of that money through the city of Fountain Hills, because our parking lots do get used in a number of city activities and events. There's been increased interest in multiuse development within our tract, and that's Page 9 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES probably the thing that we worry about the most. There are, to my knowledge, three multiuse businesses that have been approved by the city and are in the process of being -- where the construction is actually being done. Where there's going to be leasing of some second floor places for residential. That changes the math for us on parking. And so that's why it's important to us and something that we're -- we're paying attention to. We think that we've reached an agreement among our board members as to how we're going to deal with that around some limitations, some rules and some fees for overnight parking. What keeps me up at night? Parking. I mean, that's making sure that we have enough parking spaces for all the stuff that people look like they're planning to do in the track. Trash, especially ghost dumpers, people that come over on a Saturday afternoon and fill our bins with garbage is a continuous problem and something that we hear from our members all the time. Changes that the city -- again, we appreciate, Patrick, the willingness to to let us come talk to you and you coming and talk to us. The more notice we have in advance, the easier it is for us to be prepared for things that happen. And so we worry about approvals that come to -- things that come to us pre -approved, that can present some problems for us, that we don't have a chance to participate in that process. And frankly, our ability to be responsive given our CCNRs and agreements, is something that we're struggling with to see if we can't create a legal structure that would allow us to do some of the right things in the right way without 100 percent approval of our owners. We're trying to create a situation where any new business, or anyone who is changing something dramatically in an existing business, comes to us first and makes sure that we have an understanding of parking, the trash, the look and feel, and anything that would impact other business owners. One more slide, and then I'll pause and take a breath. These are the folks that run our board. Some of those names are probably familiar to you. Scott Brendemuhl has been a longtime property manager for us. He's a longtime Fountain Hills resident. He's generally the gentleman that gets the initial contact for when someone has a request or is planning a project. Sometimes we hear about them way in advance, which we Page 10 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES appreciate. Sometimes we hear about them when somebody says, I got approval to do this and I'm coming in to do it. The other board members, Ron, Betsy, Scott, and Roger. I know you know Betsy. But these are folks that own properties in our space. With that, I'll pause and answer whatever questions you have. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. Thanks. I like a quick overview and to the point. So folks have any questions? Phil? SVEUM: So kind of in a general 30,000 foot, how does your -- do you have a written agreement between all these property owners and what do you -- so do you pay your -- all of your property -- are they're all tenants in these buildings? BROOKS: No, no, no. The buildings themselves are individually owned. So there is 120- ish people that own a piece of land. Those owners have agreed to be members of the Tract 208 Association, the same way, if you bought a house in a division that was run by an HOA. We have responsibility jointly and collectively for the parking lots, the trash pickup, the landscaping, the water in the common areas, and we deal with the common sorts of problems. Somebody -- a vagrant -- car, disabled vagrant car -- they're living in their car, we deal with that sort of thing for all of the people who live within the -- all of the members within the association. They sign on to our CCNRs when they buy the property. And with that comes some rights and responsibilities. They agree to a common look and feel. They agree to be managed by the board and to -- a few things they agree to do and a few things they agree not to do. SVEUM: Can you put the map back up? BROOKS: I can. SVEUM: Oh, I didn't know if you were running it or he was. Okay. So there's architectural approval for anything that's built? BROOKS: Yes. Yes. SVEUM: So the vacant parcels are part of this -- BROOKS: Yes. SVEUM: As well? So if somebody wanted to build a mixed use building or retail shop or something, they would need your approval or your board's approval of the Page 11 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES architectural? BROOKS: Correct. We have an architectural committee, and that architectural committee needs to approve it. I can tell you that in practice they look for consistent -- a consistent paint color is something that they worry about. They look about any -- they look at anything that would impose on the other neighbors. Aside from that, if the city of Fountain Hills approves it, we pretty much approve it. We view our principal role as helping our business owners and their tenants be more successful. So if someone comes to us with a great idea, they think they can make money in a hoteling type residential setting and it fits within the city's -- the city says it's okay, it fits within the zoning rules and responsibilities, our default answer is yes. We try not to stand in the way of anybody who's trying to figure out the best use of their property. SVEUM: So you have concerns about mixed use. Is that what you're saying? BROOKS: So it presents a problem for us. Again, the deal we made with the city a long time ago was that we would have enough parking spaces for everybody that wanted to park. So what that means is if the restaurant that -- I own the building, I don't run the restaurant, but they tend to be busy from 5 p.m. until 10 p.m., which means that they might have 10 or 12 cars. They didn't have to build a parking lot for 10 or 12 cars. You probably would have said in your code they had to have 8, but this gives them 10 or 12. But they're there at a time when there's nobody else there. If suddenly we have lots and lots of people who are leaving their second car parked there all the time. Then we are proactively worrying that we won't have enough spaces for those developers. We've heard from people who have said to us -- none that have been approved by the city, but we've heard from people who have said to us, I want to buy two parcels. I want to build a three -or a four-story building. I want to put in 30 or 40 units in that two- or three- or four-story building. They think they can get approval because they're going to put retail on the bottom and housing on top. 30 or 40 or 50 apartment units concerns us. Because if you have a hair salon and you want to have the three spots in front of you open for your customers to come, when you get your hair cut, you don't want those filled by people who are leaving the second car there while they're away working. Page 12 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES And the way our rules -- the way our rules work, you can't reserve a parking spot. Everybody gets access to every spot on a first come, first served basis. So I can't say because I own Bachelor Pad, these five spaces are for Bachelor Pad. We don't allow that. SVEUM: Sure. BROOKS: Because again, it's a shared -- the idea is it's a shared -- and if you go there now -- this is an overhead picture, and I mean, it's hard to see this, but my guess is there aren't more than 30 or 40 cars in that entire lot. And I think we have close to 2,000 spaces. Don't quote me on that, that's a ballpark. So today I don't have any parking problems. SVEUM: That's why I was wondering, because -- BROOKS: That was a really long answer. I apologize for that. SVEUM: That's all right. I've just noticed there's a lot of empty spaces, like all the time, except I -- BROOKS: Yeah. SVEUM: Unless there's an event, an art event or something like that downtown. BROOKS: Correct. We don't have a problem today. SVEUM: No. BROOKS: Yeah. We're looking down the line. So the relatively few participants that do come to our board members are all thinking about how they can optimize, maximize the value of their properties. If multiuse works and is profitable, we think a lot of members will -- a lot of the businesses may do that. SVEUM: Is this a long-term -- do you think this is going to be a long-term solution with this area? BROOKS: Multi -use? SVEUM: No. Just the way it is set up right now. I mean, with asphalt rather than perhaps a ramp or something like that. BROOKS: Yeah. SVEUM: Or some decking. A parking deck or something, and units above it? Page 13 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES BROOKS: Both cost and participation requirements for me to get that done are so onerous that I just don't foresee that as happening in the near term. It would take dramatic changes for us to get that done. I will tell you that of the 120-ish property owners no fewer than 15 are out of state or out of country and are completely unreachable. Their dues are paid by a management company someplace else, and they just don't interact with us much on a daily basis. The requirement for us to get 100 percent participation in some decisions makes these things practically impossible. SVEUM: Yeah. BROOKS: You can't get it done. If you can't get them in a room and explain it to them you can't make it happen. We are limited both by the State of Arizona and by our CCNRs as to the amount of money that we can raise at any given time without 100 percent approval. So the 20 percent this year and the 20 percent next year represent the statutory limits that our board can increased rates on in any given year. To go beyond that, we need a vote of our members. We need 60-ish percent to agree to go higher than that, and to do the kind of changes that you're suggesting, we would need 100 percent approval. And as I say, I don't think I could get 100 percent people to approve the sun coming up tomorrow. SVEUM: I can imagine. Well, now that you're going to be restoring the parking Tots, you needed 100 percent agreement? BROOKS: No, no, no. So we have been reserving funds over the last decade -- SVEUM: I see. BROOKS: -- and the 20 percent and 20 percent will give us the funds to allow us to redo those, to resurface those lots. SVEUM: Just one other question. Who takes care of the trash and that hallway? BROOKS: Right. So the association owns the enclosures. Individual properties share those enclosures, and they get billed directly for that trash pickup. If somebody misbehaves, which happens more frequently than I care to tell you, then the association will get -- somebody comes in and dumps a whole bunch of stuff, the association gets that picked up and taken care of. The association handles all the landscape. The Page 14 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES association handles the security, the folks that go around and make sure that there aren't abandoned cars and random trailers in there. So we handle that. But it's the individual trash and then individual -- some individual businesses have their own trash pickup where they've got, you know, the 50-gallon containers and they've arranged for those to be picked up. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Okay. SVEUM: Good. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Jill? KEEFE: Thanks for coming today. BROOKS: Thanks for having me. KEEFE: I will share with you, I'm one of the tenants. BROOKS: Good. KEEFE: Yeah. And thank you for everything you guys do, I appreciate it. My question, though, with my strategic planning hat on, is what are the rules or the parameters around the vacant lots and keeping them maintained? Because I know that can be a challenge. BROOKS: Yeah. So we're trying to be -- so we don't have -- as the tract, we don't have the authority to force a vacant lot owner to clean up their lot. We have been very successful where there have been issues, Scott calls them, finds out -- calls the owners -- he knows many of the owners -- or will call or email. We'll encourage them. We'll give them the name of somebody that will come clean up the lot. Worst case scenario, we call the city code enforcement. And if it's bad enough, code enforcement will help us send them a letter saying you have to clean it up. So we have limited enforcement capabilities. We can fine cars -- our rules let us fine a car, post trespass notices if a car is left for -- an abandoned car and then have it removed. We can enforce trash sorts of stuff on on pickup. You know to be fully transparent, the old -- the new board members, of the list of those people, four of us are brand new. And we came in about three or four years ago because it seemed to many of us and enough people who voted with us that the old board was focused on finding and enforcing rules. And so we've Page 15 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES tried to be a kinder, gentler sort of a management approach. So we haven't actually fined anybody in the last couple of years because we've we've tried instead to go talk to them and convince them to clean it up. Again, a really long way of saying we do that persuasively as opposed to via any kind of rule or regulation. KEEFE: Yeah. Okay. Does the association play a role in considering or approving putting sidewalks in, or is that entirely a town duty? BROOKS: So within the constraints of our four walls in those parking Tots, it's our responsibility. For us, though, we deliver that via the businesses that operate that area. So the parking Tots on the main streets, on Parkview, on Saguaro, those, those are owned and maintained by the city. KEEFE: Okay. BROOKS: The ones on the internal side -- so like on where Phil's is, for example, his parking lot in front of his building, the the sidewalk is Phil's. KEEFE: Okay. Thank you. BROOKS: Do you have an issue with somebody's lot? Somebody -- is that specific or is it something I can work with? KEEFE: I'm just wondering who needs to work together to get parking lots or to get sidewalks along Parkview? Is it specifically a town issue? Is it a specifically an association issue, or is it a partnership? Sounds like it's a town issue, if I'm hearing you correctly. BROOKS: My understanding is that we do not own -- if you wanted a sidewalk on Parkview, my understanding is that we don't own that. KEEFE: Okay. Okay. And then as for the vacant Tots and the cleanup, that is a specific issue? And I guess the follow-up question would be, are your association meetings public? BROOKS: Associate meetings are public. They're four times a year, and we publish that calendar and we get two or three people who come in to talk specifically. Generally it's around a specific focus issue. KEEFE: Okay. Page 16 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES BROOKS: My email is there and Scott's is there. If there's somebody specific that we can interact with, we're happy to do it. I'll tell you that my bias -- which again, I'm one of five members and I get one vote -- would be to do something different about the fee structure to encourage those people to build buildings. But they own them. It's theirs. Many of them have owned them for a really, really long time. They're part of family portfolios. KEEFE: The vacant lots, you mean? BROOKS: Yeah. KEEFE: Yeah. BROOKS: They have no interest in doing anything with them. So it's frustrating for me. KEEFE: It's frustrating for a lot of people. Yeah. It's very public and visible part of the town and these vacant lots signal a town that's not growing. BROOKS: Yeah. We've talked about some approaches to try and get folks to either sell or develop those properties. We haven't moved that ball very far. KEEFE: Yeah. I can understand. Yeah. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. Geoff? YAZZETTA: Yeah. Thank you. This was very informative. I've been trying to figure out more about Plat 208 or Tract 208, I guess, it's called officially. And this was a great primer. You said the meetings are quarterly. I tried looking up information online. Is there a website that you guys have or is this -- it just doesn't seem like there's much. I don't want to say you're not being transparent. It's just not readily available, the information. BROOKS: So the property management association has a website allocated to us. We spent a whole bunch of money in 2016, '17, '18 putting up a website. Nobody used it. It got no -- it just wasn't used much. And so we've decided not to spend that money. And the association has -- the CCNR is online and some rules and regulations and contact information. It's an obscure website. I couldn't even quote it for you offline. I'll email it to Angela so you can distribute it. There is a website and it is available, but it's hard to get information from. Page 17 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES YAZZETTA: Got it. Thank you. And you said there was approximately 2,000 spaces. What would you say the occupancy is? And I know this is going to vary by time of day and not including when there's a big event on the Avenue, but how many spaces are filled on a given day? BROOKS: Tiny percentage. It's a tiny percentage. Many of -- so if you go to Phil's Filling Station at breakfast, the parking spots in front of his place are full. If you go to get your hair cut at one of the hair salons, you'll find that in the daytime those places are -- that the three or four spaces directly in front of them are full. Aside from that, the corner of where Avenue of the Americas meets Saguaro Boulevard, that corner and the streets that are just on the flip side of the Avenue of the Fountains those parking spots tend to fill. Sofrita's and the American Grill and those businesses tend to get heavy customer use during the daytime. Aside from that, there's largely empty -- if I had to guess, and it would just be a wild guess, I'd say 20 percent of the spaces are filled at any point in time. YAZZETTA: Got it. BROOKS: Again, when I talk about parking as a strategic sort of an issue, it more about what do I say to Sofrita's if somebody in that area puts up a three-story building with 30 units in it, and wants to park 60 cars directly in front of them? So then their customers have to walk an extra row or two in order to park. We're trying to figure that out. YAllETTA: Sure, sure. And has there been any analysis on with the current number of spaces you have, how much residential would you be able to absorb? Not yet? BROOKS: No. Because it's moving slowly enough that we don't think we need to -- I know you guys would know way more than us. If you're planning on doing stuff that's going to really open up residential in that whole area, if multiuse becomes a real thing in that area, we'll need to do something different. But right now, it looks like we've got maybe 10 units planned for 2024, and we've heard as many as 50 units planned for the year or two after that. That's slow enough that we can react to it over time. YAZZETTA: Sure. I have one or two other questions, but I see Director Wesley making an approach. So if he has some information to offer. Page 18 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES WESLEY: No, you've not misstated, Chairman, Vice Chair. I just wanted to add a little bit to that. As part of the town's general plan, one of the action items in there was to do a parking study for the town center area, and it's under the public works department, so I don't have all the details of it. But I know we have Kimley-Horn to do that, and we're in the process of getting that kicked off here and expect to have it done over the next four to six months. And so in the Plat 208 area, plus a little bit larger area around that, we will be looking at all the available parking spaces, how they're used, and try to get a better handle on how they might be used in the future. And hopefully we'll be able to get into the idea in the plat 208 area, at least to some degree of as more residential occurs, how that that might impact that area. YAZZETTA: Thank you so much. BROOKS: Can tell you that our -- so I have a portfolio of about a dozen different commercial buildings across the city. The rents in that tract are modest compared to what we're getting in a comparable city center location in Phoenix or Scottsdale or Paradise Valley. The rents would be double or triple. And so that impacts what we're able to do as business owners. YAZZETTA: Sure. Yeah. Well, there's significantly more demand in those other markets. BROOKS: Yeah. Absolutely. YAZZETTA: Quick question. The fee structure you thought about possibly imposing to maybe try and get people to sell or to develop, can you expound on that a little bit? I'm just kind of curious to know what's -- BROOKS: One man's opinion. YAZZETTA: Sure. BROOKS: It's me as president of the board, not representing the board. What I was hoping to do was to increase the fees. So we we have a tiered fee level and it's not very elaborate, but if you're in a prime -- if you're in a better location, you pay a little bit more. If you're in a poorer location, you pay a little bit less. And so what I'd like to do is to shift those people that have vacant lots from the lowest tier, which is where they are, to the highest tier or a tier above that, to make it a little more expensive for them to Page 19 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES carry these properties a long time. So I'd like to encourage them through everything that we have in our power to encourage them to either -- to turn it into something, either develop it or sell it. We know of offers that have been made on some of those vacant parcels and many of them are universally rebuffed. They're just not interested in selling them at this point in time. It occurs to me that if there were a economic disincentive to keep it for a long period of time, that it might motivate people to sell it. YAZZETTA: Interesting. One other question. When it comes to the 100 percent participation, that's not 100 percent of your five board members voting, yes. That's 100 percent of the property owners, which number about 120, and some are out of state, out of country, and just communicate only through a management company? BROOKS: Yeah. I could get five this afternoon. I can't get 120. YAllETTA: Sure. BROOKS: So 60 percent -- there's some things we can do with 60 percent. 60 percent is challenging but I think achievable. There are some things we can only do with 100 percent. I'm not even willing to try. I just there's there's just certain businesses and ownerships and structures that make getting 100 percent really, really hard. YAZZETTA: Yeah. I see that as a tremendous obstacle, even getting to 60 percent participation, because I look at this space here and the opportunity maybe to do some type of mixed use and then doing a parking lot in the center, parking structure with, say, like a public -private partnership. And it seems like even that is a bridge that is just too too far. BROOKS: Yeah. So I had a conversation with our attorney about this just last -- well, specific to the restroom, to the -- can we do this? And the answer really came back, you can't do that unless everybody -- because the way it's set up, everybody owns 1/20th of everything. So it's not like they own any given piece. They just own a fractional share of the whole thing and so if we do something it has an economic impact on them. And our attorneys who, to be fair, are paid to keep us completely out of trouble and so they're not risk takers on our behalf. They're telling us that we couldn't do something like lease you or give you space to put a restroom that I think would be highly desirable for most Page 20 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES of our businesses in our parking lot, even though we've got the space to do it. I guarantee you it's more frustrating to me than it is to you. YAZZETTA: Yeah. No, I'm just trying to wrap my head around this. The only way to amend this would be 100 percent participation, where everyone votes yes on changing the CCNRs or dissolving this organization, but that would take 100 percent -- BROOKS: Correct -- YAZZETTA: -- participation as well. BROOKS: But yeah, to modify it -- to redo the CCNRs they're telling us takes 100 percent takes participation. And to do any kind of a transaction -- so anything where a public - private partnership, where we built a parking structure, they're, they're telling me would require everybody to sign off on. Again, I'm wide open to -- you guys are welcome to come to our meetings and talk to these guys. YAllETTA: Sure. BROOKS: I think it'd be a wonderful idea if we could do a public partnership -- public - private partnership where we built a structure. I think that would be beneficial for all of our businesses. And I would love to take another run at it, and I'm happy to -- if that's the direction you want to go I'm happy to run that back by our attorneys or look for better attorneys. But it's just an uphill battle. YAllETTA: Understood. Yeah. Thank you, Zach. Appreciate it. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Let's keep it going. Is it okay? Absolutely. Phil? SVEUM: Why did you buy into this? BROOKS: I didn't knowingly do it. SVEUM: What's that? BROOKS: I didn't knowingly do it. I bought a building, and I liked the building. And the building came with the HOA. And so this deal was struck long before I owned any property. I think the deal makes sense for the business owners that are the members of the tract. SVEUM: Well, that may be at one day, but when you're looking at some time in the future and you have to have 100 percent buy in, that's -- why you did it is your business. Page 21 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES It just sounds really crazy. But I suppose that if you were to decide that sidewalks would go in, that'd be an incentive for somebody to sell their property, wouldn't it? I mean, the town assessed -- KEEFE: I -- SVEUM: -- that cost. I'm just kidding. BROOKS: You? KEEFE: Yeah, I'II wait to be called on. BROOKS: Is there -- you have another question? SVEUM: No. It's a very interesting topic, though. Thank you for coming in. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: No, I'II move over to Jill. KEEFE: It's hugely interesting. We were talking about our downtown core and the a -ha moment you've given me is that it sounds like at least 40 percent of the ownership are not on site and not engaged in Fountain Hills as a town and not active stakeholders in the well-being of the town. And if that's the case, I think we have an issue to look at and figure out how to move that needle, whether it's the town or the -- I'm sure the plat, the Plat 208 would play a role, but it's not your duty alone to solve this by any stretch. We see very clearly that you guys are painted into a corner. And that needs to be fixed. BROOKS: There are 20 or 30 very, very active residents of Fountain Hills that own and run those businesses who are very interested in positive change. There are 20 or 30 investors who bought either recently or a long time ago that are noticeably absent in any kind of participation, any kind of change that we want to make happen. And in between, there's a whole bunch of people that might you know own -- Phil's Filling Station, for example. He doesn't own the building, he's a tenant. The owner of that restaurant, Sofrita's, same thing. The owner of that restaurant is someplace else. And they leave, they delegate accountability for maintaining those properties to those tenants. But the tenants aren't voters. So I could convince Sofrita's to do something, but they don't own the building. So the owner of the building has to say, yes, I'm willing to do that. And when that has a -- when it's about dollars and cents, the owners and the tenants don't necessarily see eye to eye. And so it's an interesting collection of Page 22 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES individual business owners and individual property owners. And we do our best as board members of the tract to try and herd those cats into things, to at least make sure that the parking lots get paved and striped and that the trash gets picked up and that vagrants get passed along and that nobody paints their building yellow and purple and does -- and even less than yellow and purple, we're more interested in did you put some kind of mirrored thing on where you're blinding everybody when they're walking up. KEEFE: And the town has a downtown plan. A good one, I dare say. And it's an interesting challenge. How does the downtown plan get progressed? Let's park the question of money to do that wonderful stuff. How does the downtown plan get progressed if the vast majority of downtown has to approve, and they're not at the table? I mean, that seems like a town issue. BROOKS: Yeah. So I'm standing here with empty pockets. KEEFE: Yeah. I mean, it's -- BROOKS: I'm telling you the -- KEEFE: Is that legal? BROOKS: -- fact of the CCNRs that I deal with. And I'm making it sound more onerous than it really is. It's for us, the day-to-day stuff that we have to deal with gets taken care of fine. It's the strategic sorts of changes that we'd like to make that become very, very difficult to to move along. We'd like to -- the board would like to change a lot of the signage around Tract 208, and we can't get enough people to participate in that process to make it happen. We've got to figure out what we're going to do about parking and getting owner participation in those discussions is has been a challenge. KEEFE: Thank you so much. BROOKS: Sure. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Looking on the left and on the right. I don't see a light on. I know you mentioned -- I don't want to touch it. Okay. KEEFE: Don't you have questions for -- CHAIRMAN GARMAN: No, I don't. I wanted to finish up -- KEEFE: I'm sorry, I do, if that's an option. Page 23 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Sure. KEEFE: By all means. Thank you so much, Rachael. What can the town do to help solve this problem? I see John leaning forward. John is smart enough to know I'm going to look at him. GOODWIN: And it's funny because I've been jotting the same questions down and there is a -- I don't know, is probably the best answer at this time because there is -- it's a complicated unraveling because it is privately owned. And the town doesn't have as much reach when it's a private property. Can things be compelled? I don't know. And we do have a lot of struggle with trying to envision what our downtown could be, should be, will be hopefully. But yeah, this is a big -- this is a big blockade in terms of where it could go. I love that you guys are talking about what it could be, what your owners and development and future process could look like for Plat 208, whether that's multifamily, whether that's redevelopment, whatever that is; I love that that's a conversation. But there's still the elephant in the room of, yeah, but we need all this approval. Yeah, but it would be great if. And to the reference of the restroom, in case you don't already know, one of the items for the downtown plan is to develop a restroom, a public restroom that's accessible, particularly on days like today when we have the farmers market and things going on on the avenue. There's not a public restroom outside of this building or down in the park, and it's a kind of a hike either way. So we've been looking at options to add a restroom in the vicinity of the downtown. One of the options we were looking at was a partial in Plat 208 or some sort of agreement with somebody that's an owner there to try to develop that. Putting in something ground up is very expensive. And again, you have to own the land to do it. So there's a lot of things around that. That's a long-winded way answer to say I don't know, but I bet John can chime in. And there's a lot of -- I think that's a deeper conversation. WESLEY: Chair, yes. I've got all the answers. KEEFE: Fantastic. WESLEY: No, it is a complicated issue and we know that it is. But starting with your Page 24 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES reference a moment ago to the existing downtown vision plan that's in place and has guided a lot of things over the last ten years or so with the town center. We've been given direction by the town council as staff to work on what I'll call a strategic plan, for how we might continue forward over the next three to five years in helping manage the downtown area. So it's not talking just Plat 208, it's a little bit larger area, but certainly that's a key piece of it. And while there's a lot of issues that we're going to have a hard time with, and we don't know that we will really solve them. But we will be looking at some of those issues as we go through this process over the next six to nine months of trying to look at what are the regulatory changes we might need to make to help encourage the right type of development or encourage somebody to develop or remove an obstacle that might be in their way to develop. What are the public infrastructure improvements that should be made in this area to help it continue to grow, such as the sidewalks on Parkview, is that a priority? And if so, you know, where should they be? How big should they be? All those kinds of things that go with that. Other streetscape improvements, the restrooms, what are we doing from economic development perspective to help market and attract the right types of businesses to the area? What should we be doing from the parks and events perspective to continue to enhance the area? So where are we going -- hopefully, not getting too far ahead of where we are with this, but over the next couple of months, we'll be holding a series of focus group meetings to get some initial input on some of these items. And then in May, we're hoping to have a general public input session to give us some feedback on our preliminary ideas. So then we can turn those into final product to take to council next fall as they start the next round of budget discussions. So how much will solve these problems? I don't know, but we're certainly looking at them, one of one of the focus groups that we hope to have -- we know it's a challenge, and Zach just made it sound like it's going to be harder -- is to see how many of the vacant property owners we can get in the room at one time and ask them, why aren't you developing your property? What's holding you up? What can we do to help that happen? Page 25 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES KEEFE: How how many vacant lots are there right now in Plat 208? WESLEY: Yeah. No, I can look up there. Maybe try to count them. There's a dozen or so -- BROOKS: At least a dozen. WESLEY: Yeah. Something around that number. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We're told that -- KEEFE: Park Place and Boardwalk in our town are vacant. WESLEY: Yeah. KEEFE: That's a problem, right? Okay. BROOKS: We were told -- I don't know if it's official or not, that someone just bought the Sears building and was thinking about redeveloping and rezoning it to multiuse. WESLEY: I haven't seen that yet. BROOKS: Haven't seen it? That whole that whole stretch on Saguaro Boulevard, it's just vacant. It's depressing for us as property owners. KEEFE: As business owners neighboring them, it's depressing too. BROOKS: Yeah. Yeah. So we would. Again, the challenge will be figuring out what you can do because somebody owns that. KEEFE: Well -- and there is a safety angle, which is there are snakes there, and people tromp through them and there's -- we see a lot of that. So I'm sure -- I look forward to the sessions. Glad you're doing those. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: I see another light to my left. And if you guys are okay, you know, we're probably going to go past our time a little bit, which is okay with me. I just want to -- SVEUM: I haven't seen you for a while, so -- CHAIRMAN GARMAN: I'm just saying -- I know I look at the time more than I should, but please don't let me -- because I look fidgety, think that I'm depressing the conversation at all. I'm not. Go ahead. Phil. SVEUM: When was your CCNR -- when were they drafted or recorded? How long ago Page 26 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES was it? BROOKS: I'm really, really bad with stuff like that. I believe it was in the late '70s, early '80s. SVEUM: So kind of when the town was -- BROOKS: Yes. SVEUM: -- initially getting developed. BROOKS: When the town was initially getting -- so again, my -- I'm relatively new to this. We bought that building seven or eight years ago. We struggled with the existing board, and then I got more heavily involved in helping to manage it. As I'm sure you all know, it takes way more time than its -- than you get credit for. The CCNRs are ancient and they're terrible, and they need to be redeveloped. I think it was a really wise thing for the business owners and I assume for the city at the time. Because none of those -- without that, the business owners would have -- you would have had chopped up little pieces of parking lot and it just -- I don't think you would have the same sort of flow that you have today. We're spending -- again, a million bucks over five or six years to redo the parking lot. As an individual property owner, that's a ton of money. And so by spreading that amongst a whole bunch of businesses, it makes it easier and more affordable. But there were some omissions and mistakes in the CCNRs that we would like to clean up today and really don't have the ability. Our attorneys are telling us we don't have the ability to do that. We can't force it down people's throats. We need their approval. And that just makes it -- that makes it very, very challenging. Go get six of your neighbors together and try and agree on what a what a flagpole should look like. SVEUM: Yeah. Especially when you have absentee owners the way you do and really don't care, I can imagine. Well, I don't have any other questions right now. Thanks. KEEFE: I do have one more question. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Jill? KEEFE: Is there an -- has the association considered or is there a mechanism for the occupants, the renters of the building, to have a board member at large representation or some sort of voice into the governance of it to counteract the absentia of the Page 27 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES owners? BROOKS: The board has historically -- that's an interesting idea. The board has historically rejected that completely. So the board has historically -- our battles are teeny, tiny battles. And the battles, they happen over he used my garbage can. He's parking his car and not moving his car. Those are the kinds of battles that we have. And typically we find that the tenants are more challenging to deal with than the owners. And so we've gone back to the owners and said, your tenant is misbehaving in X, Y, or Z way. Would you please solve that problem for us? And they've done that. And so there's been a great hesitancy on the part of the board to allow those people to participate. And again, just to be really blunt, if it's not broken we try not to fix it. The strategic evolution of individual -- the strategic evolution of the town is not always the prime importance of a property owner. And so we just -- again, while we as a board try to focus on the long term and strategic, when we deal with individual property owners they tend to want us to do the least amount so that they don't have to pay more in association fees. That tends to be the first question is how is this going to affect my pocketbook? And so we don't -- you're welcome at our board meetings, we don't do a lot of strategic dreaming. We do a lot of he parked in front of my building and won't move his car. KEEFE: I think I'm busy. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Good. All right. I want to wrap up with one question and some observations, but one question I have -- you know, bulletized response, compact response. If your board had, you know, from a strategic perspective, carte blanche tomorrow to do what you want, what projects would you and the board, just a few, want to authorize if you had guaranteed 100 percent approval? What's something that we could think about, that you guys think about? BROOKS: So covered parking, solar on the parking are things that come up for us strategically. And then a way to change the dynamics of the absentee owners the way -- if we could -- if you are successful and downtown Fountain Hills grows dramatically, we think that will incentivize all our property owners to do more with properties that are Page 28 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES suddenly worth a lot more. The property that they bought for -- pick a number, $250,000, if suddenly they're being offered a million bucks for it because somebody can put up a multiuse retail and residential above it and make a ton of money, we think that will move the needle. So for us, it would be, again, because it's -- because our problems are so tactical, it would be how do we deal with the parking. Lots and lots of our business owners would like covered parking, and we just don't really have a mechanism to make that happen, but something in a public -private partnership where we could accomplish that. Lots of our business owners think we ought to put solar canopy that would both provide electricity and shade and accomplish that same thing. We really don't have the mechanism to make that happen. And then again, the evolution of the town, which we think would drive up the values for everybody. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Thanks. Thanks for that. BROOKS: I will tell you, just as an aside, you guys are doing some wonderful stuff. And if you come up with things I would love to be on your team pushing that through Tract 208. We will do the best that we -- that we are legally allowed to do to try and help move forward your strategic ideas. They're the sorts of things that make it -- I mean, we'll go take a run at it. They're the sorts of things that I think many of our business owners could get behind and get excited about. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: It just seems like you -- maybe it's just you, but you definitely have mentioned strategic several times, so you kind of get it when this commission looks at things five, ten years in the future. I think you get that. You know from what you do that it doesn't just change overnight. So definitely what you're talking about today lends itself to strategic thinking. BROOKS: I have very personal experience with the restaurant business in Fountain Hills. And I can tell you that it's a very challenging -- I don't know if any of you are in or aware of the restaurant business in Fountain Hills, but there are five or six months out of the year when it's easy to sell a $50 meal, and there's three or four months of the year where it's hard to sell a $5 meal. And that makes it very challenging for a restaurant owner who wants to staff, who wants to have their chefs and their teams in place over a Page 29 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES 12-month period. So as someone who owns a building that has a restaurant, it would be awesome if you could figure out how to have more permanent residents who are here 12 months out of the year. More attractive retail would be ideal for me individually as a business owner. So I wish you guys the best. I hope you're hugely successful, fast. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: One last comment before I say thank you. BROOKS: Sure. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Did you say something about a worm farm? BROOKS: Yes. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: You said worm farm? BROOKS: Yes. Yes, I grow worms. I have -- CHAIRMAN GARMAN: In Fountain Hills? BROOKS: No, no. South Phoenix, at the base of South Mountain. Five or six million worms, and you're welcome to come meet every one of them. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Is that just for a lot of fishermen or what? BROOKS: No. For composting. We grow things that -- we make things that make your garden grow better. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Okay. Thanks. SVEUM: Well, that's what we put in these parking lots. Just build gardens. We got worms, we got compost. BROOKS: I think that if I could talk my folks into it, we could use a couple hundred trees. If you can't put -- we can't put structures in, but we could actually put trees in. So it's one of the things that we're talking about for us. SVEUM: Well, if you had the -- the plans that have been done so far and passed those on to all of your members so that they can see what the town is visualizing and plans to do, would like to do. BROOKS: Well, in fact, we're going to have a representative of your group at our next board meeting to start that. We've got drips and drabs, but nothing -- I wouldn't say we have good insight on what you guys are doing and planning. But we would we'd like to. Page 30 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES So we're looking forward to you coming and visiting. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: So before I move to Jill, I just have to mention that the reference for worm farms comes from -- you ever seen the movie "Dumb and Dumber"? BROOKS: I have. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Just saying. Okay. Thanks. Okay. Jill. I know I'm a little old, but that's my time frame. But yeah. Go ahead, Jill. BROOKS: I actually knew it. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: You got that too. All right. KEEFE: Might have been a little in jest, but there really is some merit in the idea of communities garden and sustainability and green spaces and food creation and food forests. There's a lot there. And I know at some point we're going to hear from the volunteers that are pursuing Blue Zones certification. And local food is part of the equation. So I don't know if that was a tongue in cheek comment, but I really think there's something there. BROOKS: And I would invite you. So we have a one acre food forest on our property in addition to five million worms. But at the peak of the summer -- last summer, it was 115 degrees outside, it was 85 degrees in our food forest. So trees and mulch and stuff growing makes a difference. I can tell you also, from personal experience, these parking lots are incredibly hot in the summertime. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: So Zach, I saw your three slides and I was like, well, this is going to be done quickly. No problem. So thank you -- I'm sorry. I keep thinking you're, like, going to hit your button, I apologize. So thank you very much for coming by. You have an open invitation if you want to come back and speak strategically, always. Just let me know and I look forward to addressing your group. Thank you very much. BROOKS: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Okay. So now we're going to -- this is the time we're going to go over our commission work groups. Mainly the presentations that we're doing for some of the service organizations and volunteer organizations. And like I say, the workshop is the other work group. So we'll probably do an attenuated overview of them today. And Page 31 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES we'll probably provide more information next month. So I was going to let -- because I think that the workshop group has done a significant amount of work lately. So I was going to let Geoff review that if he would. YAZZETTA: Yes. Thank you. So myself and my colleagues, Commissioners Keefe and Sveum, we have been meeting weekly during the month of January here to hammer out the details for the workshop which will be taking place Saturday, April 20th. We've gone back and forth on a couple of different dates and then getting everyone's schedules aligned. It will be occurring mid -morning Saturday, April 20th. We have reserved one of the ballrooms at the community center. And just a quick, broad overview of the layout. You'll walk in, there's going to be a welcome station. We're going to have some Tight refreshments. And then what we have done as a group is we've gone back and looked at every strategic plan dating back to, I want to say 2007. And we have taken the pillars, the different priorities; we've listed them out and what we've done is we have grouped them into kind of, like, I guess you could call them clouds. So for example the economy is a pillar in every plan. And what we've done is we've taken the local economy, the town center, commercial and residential development, each one of those topics is going to have a whiteboard, if you will, and we're going to give the participants note cards. And with nothing other than those prompts of what one of the previous pillars was, and reminding them to think, hey, think five, ten years into the future, give us your thoughts on the local economy. Give us your thoughts on the town center, on commercial and residential development. There's other topics such as the town identity and vision. Are we primarily like a bedroom community or do we want some smart growth and development? Obviously, that is a polarizing topic right now at this moment, safety infrastructure. What we want to do is just garner as much feedback as possible, get people to brainstorm a little bit. After the event is done we will collect all of that data and we will start to drill down on what the, like, broad themes are that we can then extrapolate and pull a pillar out of. That we can help use to build the subsequent iteration of this strategic plan. Ideally, we're looking for people to participate and spend anywhere from 10 to 20 minutes, maybe more if they have a lot to say and to share. A Page 32 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES home run, in our estimation, is getting 100 people to participate in this event. We're going to be working with Bo Larsen. He's the town's communications director, to come up with a flier, send out a save -the -date, and then some reminders. We can get that out via email and social media channels. And then through our own individual networks, we can reach out to community leaders, chamber of commerce, service organizations. Just spread the word far and wide. And again, this event is taking place in April, but I will be reaching out to some or all of you to help staff this event. And we will need to do a quorum notice because we'll likely have more than three commissioners present, but we won't be discussing specific business. We'II be garnering feedback for our research purposes. I think that's a pretty broad overview. Phil, Jill, anything to add on to that? Okay. Thank you. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: No? Okay. Any other questions from any -- All right. HOENLE: Comment. I don't see it being a problem to having an open meeting, and just advertise when you're going to do it ahead of time and you're fine. YAZZETTA: Yeah, absolutely. It's just -- they post a quorum notice on the front of the building. They did that for the town holiday party and other things. It's just a formality. Just anytime there's more than -- or anytime there is a quorum of commissioners or councilmembers present. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Awesome. And that was a great overview. And we'll get another update next month. And then as it gets closer. So that was April 20th? YAZZETTA: Saturday, April 20th, right. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: All right. Great. Great overview. I wanted to put out a few things about some of the road show. Bernie and I -- Joe was at one of the road shows as well. I say the road show facetiously, but us going out and speaking to some of the nonprofits and service organizations about the commission, what we do, and ideas about going forward. And I just wanted for the record and to let all you know here's the groups we've talked to so far. And I did -- before I forget, I want to put a plug in. I was looking for different organizations. I think I brought that up here before, and I went by the chamber of commerce because they have a really nice publication, with all the Page 33 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES different organizations. And then Betsy was there and of course, showed me the app, and Fountain Hills has this amazing app, and it has all the organizations and phone numbers and emails in the app. That has been really awesome. So that has really helped me to contact all of these folks. So talked to the Fountain Hills Rotary, the Four Peaks Rotary, the Noon Kiwanis, the Sunset Kiwanis, the Republican Club, which I got my picture taken and put in the newspaper. I didn't know that was going to happen. Chamber -- Joe, you were there for that one? Yeah. And just for the record, I asked the Democratic Club as well, and they turned me down. So they said maybe after the election. The chamber of commerce also, on their schedule. I was able to brief the community service advisory commission before the holidays. That was awesome. So their chair is going to come brief sometime this this spring. I'm on the schedule for Plat 208. I'm also on the schedule for the Lions so far, so that's great. So that's where we are so far and I continue to add folks. And Bernie and other folks in our group attend with me and kind of take notes and send those back. So -- and I know this year, whether we're looking at the workshop or what we're doing on our workgroup, this is kind of the more boring year. And I say that because the big pillars are -- they don't change a whole lot. There's a lot of economics and infrastructure and things like that that people talk about. And that's okay. Boring is okay, dependable is okay. So every now and then somebody surprises you, though, definitely. But I think it will get more exciting as we head into the next phase. Okay. Does anybody have questions about that, what I'm doing or any suggestions or about any groups? Please let me know if you think there's groups that would benefit. REYES: Just a real quick one. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Joe, please. REYES: Do you have already an upcoming event with a date so that we can join in here and there? Not all the time. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: I actually made my own Excel spreadsheet with dates and contact informations and I didn't bring it with me, though. I think I can give it to Angela to send out. So yes, I will do that. Page 34 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES REYES: Great. Thanks. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. Okay. Any questions about that agenda item with the work groups? Thank you very much for everybody's participation. I think it's really, really going well this year. Okay. So we're going to move on to agenda item 8, which is discussion and possible action for future agenda topics. This is when ideas that you might want myself or you all to help me bring to our commission, like Plat 208 was today. So I'll open it up and so I'll ask for your guys if you have any ideas, I will let you know that the road committee is going to come and talk to us about their plan that Bernie was helped with. The Blue Zone Project, they just -- what did they do in the Valley? I know that they're in Scottsdale. HOENLE: Scottsdale started with their first meeting about a week ago. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. And we have that locally as well. So I -- probably our local members are going to come brief us on that project. And then also I've been in communication with the Downtown Merchants Association to try to get that gentleman to come and brief us as well. So trying to decide on on a time and a presentation. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Is that TAMA? The Avenue Merchants Association? CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. Oh, the acronym? Yeah. Yes. Okay. So those three. So any more ideas? Any agenda items that any commissioner wants to bring up or talk about? Seeing none. HOENLE: I'm ready for adjournment. KEEFE: I think he has a motion. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: He's going to go -- HOENLE: I have to go. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: He has to go. Okay, Bernie. Thanks. So I've been sprinkling in my -- I'm going to go down to agenda item 9 now. I've been sprinkling my comments of course, throughout. So we covered the work groups. We covered the road project. That's Mr. Graham, Mark Graham, I think. The Plat 208. The last thing I wanted to just bring to everybody's attention. Remember presentations like this because we talk about them and we're interested, and then we go on to the next thing. Take notes, as Page 35 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES somewhere we have priorities because these are going to come back. At some point, right, we're going to say, okay, let's type -- let's get a pencil and write down what we think. And it's like, what did we -- what was important last year or something like that. So things like this that we can -- that help, that lend itself to strategic thinking and strategic planning, please keep those in mind so we can latch those into our plan as we go forward. Okay. SVEUM: I think that's great to keep in mind. And I think we also need to ponder what resources the town has to help a group like this with what they're up against, because it's the most -- it's such a valuable part of the future. That there's no way out the way they're set up. And I'm not sure what that help would be, but maybe it is brainstorming with as many of those property owners as possible on an ongoing basis to help them talk with the others that are not -- that are absent. Right? That maybe they can convey, hey, this is a good thing. We should be considering all of this. It's going to have to be a kind of a building process with all of these -- that's an insurmountable problem. That if it can't be resolved with legal means, it's going to take -- it's going to take some relationship building. You know, starting with him and with whatever else we can help do, if that's what we want to -- if that's what the town wants to do. That's an incredible problem. KEEFE: I doubt that this problem has been invented here. I got to believe that another town has encountered this, and I'd like -- I don't know who, whether it's the town or the Plat, to do some outreach to other towns similar in scope and ask how they've cracked that nut. SVEUM: Yeah, I agree, it's -- how anybody could set up something with 100 percent approval. KEEFE: You know, in the '70s when 100 percent was five people, I get it. But there needs to be a mechanism. SVEUM: Yes. It might have been one property all the time. KEEFE: Yeah. SVEUM: It's just interesting. Page 36 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES KEEFE: Amanda might have connections with other economic development directors around not just the state, but around the nation that have come up with strategies that incentivize the right behavior. SVEUM: I think that until something like that is discussed or resolved, it's almost a waste of time and money to plan because there's nothing that can be done. Yeah. KEEFE: I mean. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: I tell you -- KEEFE: Yeah. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: -- glaciers wear down mountains. KEEFE: Right on, Patrick. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yes, I know. Yeah, that's a good comeback. You're right. I didn't know I was going to look at have you heard of this issue before in the town? GOODWIN: I have to, to a certain degree. I mean, I've known a little bit here and there, obviously, as we've gotten more active board members. So like when Betsy took over on the board and Scott got involved in the board, I heard more of it. The detail level. And yes, it is a monumental issue that is not an easy one to navigate. I think we got our biggest dose of it when we were talking about the restroom conversation with them and understanding that they all loved the idea and still couldn't do it. And it's kind of you go, wait a minute. What? But you want it? Yes. And you think it's a good idea? Yes. And we're not willing to pursue it? No. And that's a heartbreaker. I mean that's -- and I feel like -- I feel like they probably face that over and over and over again. So to your point, I think Amanda is a great resource as John moves through this and works with the downtown redevelopment concepts, asking the questions of how do we. To your point Phil, I think when you say, sure, I'm going to buy a property in there and you agree to it, I mean, they know what they're walking into and it's still that's the way it is. SVEUM: I'm not so sure they all knew what they were walking into. GOODWIN: Maybe not. KEEFE: Doesn't sound like it. GOODWIN: Maybe not. Page 37 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES SVEUM: Those documents sometimes are not read. All they know is they bought a building and they got a tenant. GOODWIN: Exactly. SVEUM: They get a check every month, right? GOODWIN: Right. Until they want to make changes and they go, wait, what? SVEUM: Well, but there might be some sort of limitation of equitable interest that's being violated on these folks because they can't -- they're losing potential equity because they can't do anything with their property. That's where I was thinking about an angle from a legal standpoint. GOODWIN: Absolutely. SVEUM: I don't know. Anyway, it's an interesting problem. GOODWIN: No doubt. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. And it's really -- I'm sorry to keep talking about it. Right. But bringing people to the table because I guarantee you there's people and there's 120. When you bring them to the table, they'll be like, what problem? We like it this way. There's just, you know -- but at least bringing them to it that it could be. SVEUM: That's what it could be. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yes. Yeah. Exactly. I saw a red come on. KEEFE: Yeah. I don't know if it's worth it. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Yeah. Our new system. It's okay. KEEFE: Thank you. It's like therapy is in session. Yeah. Our building owner that we rent -- from whom we rent is international. He bounces between France and Brazil. It's just like -- we need people that care about Fountain Hills to have their hands in the decision -making of Fountain Hills. And with utmost respect for property rights of property owners, there need to be incentives and strategies to make it undesirable to sit on undeveloped property assets and play -- assets that are not in play are toxic to everything around them. And that's a uphill climb. I couldn't get a garbage can in Plat 208. I couldn't get a garbage can. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible). Page 38 of 39 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JANUARY 24, 2024 STRATEGIC PLANNING ADVISORY COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES KEEFE: The dumpsters are all spoken for. And the only thing that Republic does is residential garbage cans. What kind of businesses are you going to attract that can only get access to residential garbage cans? So that makes it a real economic development challenge for Amanda. And then you ask the question, what kind of occupancy? Park the vacant lots for a second. How many empty buildings do we have in the heart of this beautiful town? And we bump into silly things like this? And it's not appealing to open up a business in this town because the basics can't be addressed. This isn't just a Plat 208 thing, and it's our job to wish them well and hope that works out for them. This affects everything we're trying to do in this strategic planning committee, and we can't let this go. Speech over, therapy over. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: That's all right. No, it was well said. Okay. So that's the comments from the chairman. That's number 9. So we're going to go on to number 10. Then next meeting date is scheduled for Wednesday, February 28th for everybody to know. Okay. I've had a lot of discussion today. We're going to move on to possible adjournment. Before, does anybody have any other comments about what we talked about today or anything in the future? Okay. Does anybody have a motion on adjournment? YAZZETTA: I move to adjourn. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Anybody have a second? SVEUM: Second. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Any discussion on adjourning today? All those in favor say aye. ALL: Aye. CHAIRMAN GARMAN: Any against. The ayes have it. It's unanimous. Thank you very much. We'll see everybody on the 28th next month. Page 39 of 39