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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024.0206.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 6, 2024
A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E.
Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:30 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Sharron Grzybowski;
Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon;
Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth;
Councilmember Allen Skillicorn
Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D.
Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Approximately ninety-six members of the public were present.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
FEBRUARY 6, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
Town Council Meeting Minutes
February 6, 2024
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening everyone. Welcome. Thank you for coming. Please
stand for the pledge. And if you'd like, remain standing for the invocation.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We have Pastor Clayton Wilfer from Joy Christian
Community Church. Hi.
WILFER: Hi. Good evening. Heavenly Father, we thank you for the blessings you have
given us, for the rain that we are receiving. We thank you for this town and for the
council leaders of this town. We pray that that that as they discuss what is best for this
town and make decisions that you guide them in your wisdom. We pray that as difficult
topics and conversations are held, they are guided by your grace, compassion, and
peace. Guide them in all that they say and do. In Jesus' name, Amen.
ALL: Amen.
MAYOR DICKEY: A roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Here.
MENDENHALL: I think I missed Vice Mayor Grzybowski, right? Did I say you?
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GRZYBOWSKI: You didn't. But thank you. I'm still here.
MENDENHALL: Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the
agenda or under call to the public should fill out a request to comment card located in
the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of
that agenda item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into
the microphone and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments
to three minutes.
It is the policy of the mayor and council to not comment on items brought forth under
call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the council at a
future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Linda.
We'II start, as always, with our activities. And we're going to start with our town
manager, Rachael Goodwin.
GOODWIN: Thank you, mayor and council. As it was mentioned, we are having some
rain. And we expect more. It is predicted through the National Weather Service, they're
calling for an inch, up to an inch and a half, to up to two inches, potentially, in higher
elevation areas. Which is a lot of rain for us. So I just wanted to offer a few reminders
to our residents as you're heading around town to avoid flooded areas. Don't drive
through standing water. Follow any barricades or closures that might be out there. We
have a reminder from the National Forest Service that they are also going to be
monitoring and potentially closing recreation sites, including the Tonto National Forest
and Four Peaks area. Locally, we're asking folks to remember and be mindful to stay off
trails, potentially specifically the Overlook Trail, as well as our trails that are accessed
through the Adero Canyon trailhead. Again, they're slippery. It can be unsafe. So we
want to make sure that we observe the conditions that are out there. We'll have a
number of closures in our parks, including our dog park. And a number of events are
likely impacted, including this weekend's touch a truck.
Lastly, our Fountain Hills Fire Department wanted to remind residents that there are
sandbags available at Station 1. And all staff, including public safety, will be on standby
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all week during the event.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
GOODWIN: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We had a few very exciting events in town the last
couple of weeks. We had our Fountain Hills gun show over last weekend. The Chamber
had a wine walk. I was unable to attend the wine walk, but I heard that it was very, very
fun. And I also wanted to share that the reason I wasn't able to attend the wine walk
was I was at a Restoring National Confidence Summit. Don't worry, I'm not going to get
political. But I left this event in Las Vegas, Nevada with so much optimism and just my
heart very full because I met plenty of people that were so passionate about their
community, about their county, about their state. And I wanted to take this moment
because we did lose someone who was very unapologetically patriotic this morning, Mr.
Toby Keith. I looked up to him since I was a very little girl, and because that's someone
that we lost today and because of that event, I just wanted to take that moment to
encourage everyone here; if you're here, that means you're interested in council. That
means you're interested in politics. Find something that you're passionate about, get
involved, find your people. It really does make everything a lot more positive when
you're with a group of people that are passionate about the same things you are. So if
you're not sure where to get involved, I'm sure anyone up on the dais is more than
happy to help. But that's all I have to say.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: A lot of stuff going on in the past couple of weeks, so I'll try to be brief.
The Arizona League of Cities and Towns calls have started again every Monday morning,
and those are always very interesting to hear what's going on at the state legislature. I
attended the Phoenix East Valley Critical Infrastructure and Transportation meeting, and
just last week we had a greater Phoenix Economic council ambassador event where it
was entitled Addressing Housing Supply in the region. It was an excellent presentation
with a panel that included Elliot Pollack, who is one of my favorite people in the state.
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He was talking about housing prices and how they've increased dramatically over the
years, and how our income levels have not kept up with the housing increases. Mr.
Pollack reminded us that housing density is a tough pill to swallow, but one that we
need to swallow because we're in a different world now, because the housing prices
have increased quicker and more drastically than the income levels have. Another great
takeaway was one of the mayors on the panel actually said, our workers deserve to live
in a city where they work. Thank you.
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. Several things. I did attend Captain Todd's 40 years. He
retired in service here at our Fountain Hills Fire Department. So congratulations to him
once again. And we had a couple of anniversary ribbon cuttings. The Fountain Hills
Women's Club was 50 years old. The Times Newspaper was 50 years old. We attended
the State of the Town given by the mayor. And this month is teen dating domestic
violence month. So there'll be more about that in a little bit because we're going to
read a proclamation for that. And then we also had our Pony Express ride into town
recently too. So that was kind of exciting. It was the first time in 60 years that they had
a female rider with them. Now, she didn't ride into Fountain Hills, but she was with
them part of the way.
And then, Mayor, if you'll indulge me, I have a couple of comments I want to make
relative to the last council meeting here. There were comments made on this dais that
were anything but about bringing this town together. One of our councilmembers
inferred that residents are rich, white A -holes. That's simply not acceptable on this dais.
And I caution people that this is not the place for that kind of rhetoric here on the dais.
It's insulting to all of our organizations in this town. We have a lot of volunteers in this
town that are considered, I guess, RWA, and it's not bringing the town together. So I
wanted to take a second and say that such comments by sitting councilmembers really
don't do a lot to bring this town together. So that's all I have on it. Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: Actually, briefly, I would like to remind people that I did not call people
RWAs. Rather, I reminded you that that is what your definition of those people are,
that's how they refer to us. They refer to us as RWAs. And I didn't use the A -word
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either. All I said was check Urban Dictionary. Thank you.
MCMAHON: Oh, boy. Good evening everybody. Thank you for attending the council
meeting. I recently attended a Valley Metro Board meeting, and also we had a grand
opening of the Light Rail Northwest Extension station, and it is amazing. It's brand new.
It's the first station that's above ground by four stories. It goes across the 10 freeway,
and at night it lights up and we're going to be able to change those lights to whenever
there's a sports team of ours playing, et cetera, to show up. And the local artists that
have decorated that rail station, they are phenomenal. So if you're ever out at the
metro area off the 10, please take a ride on the rail, it's really worth it.
Also I did attend the retirement party for Todd's retirement after 40 years of service. It
was really nice to honor him and to see his colleagues honor him as well. I've also
attended a couple of amazing in -home concerts, which are really fabulous, and I
attended the mayor's State of the Town. And I want to thank her because I think,
excuse me, that that was her best State of the Town ever.
And also I have attended the fire buffer zone committee that has just started up again.
And in addition, I'm on the dementia friendly town committee. We are planning a half a
day seminar on April 27th. That is going to be really, really great. We're going to
educate on the dementia friendly. We're going to have a lot of vendors, and it is going
to be really a great seminar. So please mark your calendars and there will be more
information about that forthcoming. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Ma'am?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Good evening, everybody, and thank you for
coming. Fountain Hills is so blessed to have this kind of engagement with its citizenry
and its town council meetings. There's so many town councils that have very few
people, and I think good governance is the result of people caring about their
governments and holding people accountable. And so thank you everybody for coming.
And Cox Channel 11, for livestreaming YouTube, a lot of hits on YouTube and of course a
full room tonight. I attended also -- it's been like three weeks since we had a council
meeting, three legislative updates. And those are on Monday mornings on Zoom. For
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people that are interested in sober living and detox issues SB -- they discuss SB 1361,
represents a crucial initiative to enhance the regulation and oversight of sober living
homes to directly address vital concerns relating to public health, safety, and welfare.
And so that's on the state level, and we're going to get some help from the state and
hopefully that'll be passed. If you do appreciate stricter and fair sober living laws, I
recommend you contact your state legislature. I also attended the Cornerstone Church
50th celebration. It was a wonderful thing to have somebody in town for 50 years. It
was incredible. As the Fountain Hills Times describe it, the service included special
music, video presentations, food, and fellowship. We had all those and it was a
beautiful thing.
I also went to the Republic Services recycling facility open house on Gilbert Road and the
Beeline Highway. Years ago, we lost the international contracts to dispose of recycled
goods, and so they didn't know what to do with them. So companies like Republic
Services spent a lot of money to figure out how we can recycle those bottles and cans
and everything you throw away into usable products. It's very environmentally friendly.
And thank you for Republic Services for what you're doing. I also went to three ribbon
cuttings as well: the Fountain Hills Women's Club, the Fountain Hills Independent Times,
and the DeGeorge Partners Realty Group. Those are always fun. Thanking the Chamber
for that. I was also a judge in the Mars Hill Speech and Debate Tournament. Students
debated in styles like teen policy, the Lincoln -Douglas style debate, and parliamentary
debates. The students' skills were exceptional. They were dressed sharp and reminded
me that this country is in good hands with our youth. Also town staff and the mayor, we
met with ADOG to try to improve our dog park and our parks, to be dog friendly and
people friendly because as we all know, we love our -- dogs are man's best friend and so
we want to make our parks very dog friendly. And also on that note, we met with some
community leaders on revitalizing the community center kitchen to make that a more
full service. Gerry was a big part of that to make that more of a full -service kitchen so
we could use that and enhance the value of our community center.
I also attended the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary change of watch. I was one of
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the speakers of that watch. And Fountain Hills' resident Jack Pauley was named the
Division 10 commander, which is quite an honor. And I congratulate Jack as a Fountain
Hills citizen for being elected to commander. Just like Gerry and many of us, I went to
the post office and had the postal service delivered by horseback, the mail, that was
really fun. And then lastly is I did go to the State of the Town. I won't describe it right
now, I won't steal the mayor's thunder, but it was it was a truly an emotional and
inspirational speech and I thank her for that. Thank you.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Good evening everyone. I also did quite a few
events. I don't want to duplicate too much, but some of my favorites in the last couple
of weeks was that Pony Express. It was like half the town was there, and the horses
were so friendly and the people were so friendly. It was great to be part of that. And
also, that gun show this last weekend was a fabulous opportunity for the town. And it
was just absolutely packed, especially Saturday. I mean, there were so many people
there that the lines were long and it was like kind of hard to even shop because it was so
popular.
And I also want to point out that I found my Ephesians 6: 11 through 12 pin this
morning. And so I want to quickly read that, "Put on a full honor of God so that you can
take your stand against the devil's schemes, for our struggle is not against flesh and
blood." Thank you very much.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All these things I went to too. So it was a three weeks
and -- but I will mention Todd Brunin and his 40 years and congratulation to him and his
family for being a captain. Rural Metro keeping our community safe for all those years.
The recycling center was great and ADOG. And one thing I did that is a little different
was the Canadian Arizona Business Council. I'm part of like this little subgroup and we
used to call it medical tourism. And that was something that we talked about with
Fountain Hills. But some of the folks that are more entrenched in it are reassessing that
term. So it doesn't adequately describe what it is, but a lot of folks from Canada and
other places coming here for medical treatment. So the tourism moniker wasn't
working as well, so more to come on that. Did a Dark Sky interview with Vicky Derksen.
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It was like a blog thing. Congressman Gallego came and spoke to a few mayors and
asked us about infrastructure and water and other needs that we might have.
I'll just say about the State of the Town I want to thank Bo, especially everybody that put
it together. It was a wonderful morning, the food fills and everything, so. And it's
available online. The League executive committee, which I'm honored to serve on, had
AG Mays come and she spoke about what you were mentioning, the sober living home
in light of the access fraud, which I think they're really starting to describe that as one of
the biggest scandals in the state's history.
So there's a lot of help, I think, that will be coming in. And our last item is about
legislative stuff. So I think that may be one of those bills we might want to unite and put
a stand in. I think it may have already been heard. And you know, if you go to that
request to speak thing, you it has to be in a committee. So you have to find it at the
right moment. So I think we probably end up having to do a letter or something like
that. But we'll talk about that.
Regional council, I usually just mention that I go, but there was some news. MAG
region, every year they get an allocation from Federal Highway. And it's a funding
formula where it comes through Prop 400. And also there's like a regional competition.
And Fountain Hills had put in for some sidewalk infill dollars, which we didn't get on the
first run. But then they have this thing called close outs, which is at the end of the year.
So we actually got the $65,000 to help with more of our sidewalk infill, which, you know,
we already got a $2 million grant for that. And the town match for the 65,000 is 3,700.
So it's really quite good for us. The regional 911 system is going to be transitioning from
the City of Phoenix to a state contract with ADOA, so I'll be asking our captain and our
chief if there's any ramifications for us, because from the description, I couldn't really
tell if it affects us locally.
And last, and this will be the transition here, we had a report from our regional domestic
violence, the chair of Gerry's council there. And I let them know that we were going to
be presenting this proclamation here tonight. So I'm going to flip the proclamations and
hand it over to Gerry so he can do that.
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FRIEDEL: Thank you, mayor. And also on the town's website -- and I think Bo Larsen has
also put it out on social media as well for the town, some links and information about
teen dating violence, which is -- since COVID has really been on the rise. So this Teen
Dating Violence Prevention Awareness Month, which is the month of February, I'm
going to read this proclamation, and then I will present it at our next meeting in April.
Whereas in accordance, according to the centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
teen dating violence is a serious public health problem that is common among
adolescents and young adults ages 10 to 24 and is most prevalent type of youth and
violence. And whereas approximately ten percent of adolescents across the United
States report being the victim of physical dating violence annually, and whereas, high
school students who witness, experience, and perpetrate physical violence in a dating
relationship are more likely to use drugs and alcohol, are at a greater risk of suicide, and
are much more likely to carry patterns of abuse into future relationships. And whereas
only nine percent of teen victims report seeking help after their victimization
experience, and whereas by educating young people about red flags and root causes of
violence, building skills for healthy relationships and changing attitudes that support
violence, we recognize that teen dating violence can be prevented. And whereas nearly
half of teens who experience dating violence report that incidents of abuse took place in
a school building or on school grounds, and whereas it is essential to raise community
awareness and provide training for trusted adults in the lives of adolescents so that they
may recognize the signs of dating violence and serve as allies for prevention. And
whereas, the recognition of Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month in February will
benefit young people, their families, schools, and communities regardless of
socioeconomic status, gender, sexual orientation, ethnicity. And whereas, everyone has
the right to a safe and healthy relationship and to be free from abuse. Now it is
therefore resolved that the members of this Town of Fountain Hills council express our
support of February as Teen Dating Violence Awareness Month, proclaimed this day,
February 6th, 2024.
So there's a lot of information and links out on the town's website. And again, Bo has
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taken care of that. So if you know of anybody that's been through this, there's
information out there that they can reach out and get some help with that. So we
appreciate the town taking the stance on this and the proclamation. Mayor, thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Thank you for your role in that MAG Regional
council and for doing that. We appreciate it.
Next we have another proclamation. This is the recognition of February as Black History
Month. I'm going to be presenting this to a couple that are here in Fountain Hills. And
I'm going to tell you a little bit about them. Judith and George Goodman are accepting
on behalf of the town. The Goodmans share their time here in Fountain Hills and in
Mackinac Island in Michigan. Judith Mansfield Goodman, an Eastern Michigan
University grad, is a former assistant dean of admissions and student services at the
University of Michigan Business School.
George served four years in the military, returned to Ypsilanti, where he was first
elected to city council and served as their mayor for ten years. Also a graduate of
Eastern Michigan University, he served as a U.S. army officer in Germany for five years.
He was director of the University of Michigan Opportunity Program and the Michigan
Municipal League, like our Arizona League. He and Judith have been married for 61
years, and they have two sons. And one of their sons, I think is Mark, has a master's
degree from Tufts and is on the board of trustees and Tufts University, Massachusetts,
which is my alma mater. So for those, it's a small world connections and many others.
I'm happy to present this proclamation to the Goodmans. If you'll meet me down there,
I'll read it and then we'll get a picture.
Over here. If you guys want to hold it and then we'll display it here in town.
There we go. Whereas Black History Month is an annual opportunity to recognize the
central role of African Americans in the history of our state and nation. Whereas Black
History Month was officially established in 1976 by President Gerald Ford, who called on
the public to, quote, "seize the opportunity to honor the too often neglected
accomplishments of black Americans in every area of endeavor throughout our history",
and has since been recognized by every U.S. president, governors, and other officials
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across the country and in the State of Arizona. Whereas during Black History Month, we
celebrate the many achievements and contributions of African Americans to our
economic, cultural, spiritual, social, and political development. And this year, we
celebrate African Americans and the arts, which invites us to delve into the rich tapestry
of black artistic expression across music, visual arts, literature, fashion, and more,
spanning generations and shaping the very fabric of our nation's identity. And whereas
African American artists have enriched our lives with their groundbreaking contributions
in diverse fields, from the soulful melodies of jazz and blues to the vibrant strokes of
Harlem renaissance paintings, the powerful narratives of black literature, and the
innovative spirit of contemporary dance and fashion. So now, therefore, I, Mayor Ginny
Dickey of the Town of Fountain Hills, do hereby recognize and proclaim February 2024
as Black History Month, African Americans and the Arts, and urge all to join in
celebrating the contributions of African Americans to our community, our state, and our
nation. So thank you very much. And you're going to have to say something, but we'll
clap first.
G. GOODMAN: I was going to try to get my wife to say something, but as usual, she
says, no, you say it, you say it. Thank you. I'll try to stick with the three minute time.
Thank you. First let me say this reinforces our views about Fountain Hills. We have
been living in your community. I say your community because officially, Mackinac
Island, Michigan is still our community. But now we feel like this is our community also.
We've been through a lot in our lives together. We've watched the world change.
We've watched communities change. And the thing that seems to me is of importance
is that we're all human beings. And when you get right down to it, we have the same
feelings about things. We get frustrated when the City council doesn't do what we think
they should do. We get frustrated when the state doesn't do what they're supposed to
do. We get frustrated when the feds don't do what they're supposed to do. And rather
than complaining about it, we have to get involved. I can remember going to council
meetings. We'd come into a meeting, and if five people showed up, the council would
start looking at one another because they would say oh, oh, there's something going on.
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And in most instances, that was the case. I am absolutely delighted -- and I echo one of
the comments that a councilmember made here, the fact that the community here in
Fountain Hills comes to council meetings. You are paying attention. You're keeping an
eye on what's going on in this community. We are delighted. Thank you very much,
Mayor. We're just thrilled to be here. We're what you call those snowbird people that
irritate you. We show up in October, and when the temperature gets above a certain
degree. So thanks again. Thanks for having us come this evening.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And we're not done with good stuff. Next we have a
presentation. It's our introduction of our student interns, which I think is a new thing
for us, isn't it, Rachael?
GOODWIN: It is. Thank you. Mayor. I'm going to ask Bo to come on up. Bo is going to
be doing an introduction of the numerous interns we have working in town hall this
year. They've been learning a lot and I imagine you're going to highlight all the details.
So thanks, Bo.
LARSEN: Mayor and council, thank you very much. I am here to talk about our student
intern program, and we have four wonderful ones this year that are gaining valuable
real -life experiences in working with us. Brief opportunity to recognize these students
and the wonderful job they are doing. Though I didn't see them here today, they were
invited. We have two students from Arizona State University. Alicia Cox (ph.) is a parks
and recreation intern. She is majoring in tourism development and management at
ASU, and her focus here has been event planning and marketing. Bradley McNish (ph.)
is a planning intern assisting planning staff with both current planning and long-range
planning activities. Specifically, he is providing support to the downtown plan project by
doing research and data analysis. And he said he was going to be here, but he didn't
make it. But Bradley is in the School of Sustainability at Arizona State University. But
we're also fortunate to have two high school students interning with us this semester.
The students are part of the Senior Internship Program, developed in collaboration
between the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce and the Fountain Hills Unified School
District. And we do have a couple of members. Betsy and Kristen are here from the
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Chamber of Commerce. The goal of the program is to help develop and prepare
students for their future, allowing them to gain valuable real world experience with local
businesses who are deeply invested in the community. A grant through the Verne C.
Johnson Foundation helped make this possible. Beginning this year, all Fountain Hills
High School seniors had to complete one of four options to fulfill their graduation
requirements. The options were an unpaid internship, EVIT, alternative research
project, or a job, or employment. Through the unpaid internship track, the student had
to gain 40 hours of documented internship, as well as provide a presentation at the end
of the year. Our two high school interns are Ben West (ph.), who is the IT intern, and
Christopher Towne (ph.), who is intern with me at community relations department.
And he's already been published in the Fountain Hills Times, a couple of articles. And
he's also going to see several Fountain Hills insider articles that he's been doing, and
he's been doing a great job.
But all of our interns have been highly engaged with their departments and
assignments, and each have gained valuable work experience for their chosen career
paths. And thank you. And if you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them for
you or the Chamber of Commerce will.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any questions or comments from anybody? Hannah? No. Oh, sorry, I
thought I saw the light. All right. Well, thank you, Bo. And I'm glad that we were able
to participate. I know sometimes you get too busy. You can't take the time to get the
help. And we were able to fit that in. And I'm just really appreciate that. Thank you.
LARSEN: It's been fun. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: I bet. Our next item is our call to the public. We have speaker cards,
and Linda, I'll let you -- I see you kind of have a few in there.
MENDENHALL: Yes. Okay. So I had one person comment that they wanted to comment
in writing. Her name is Sally Lloyd (ph.). So I'm going to pass this so you can read this.
And then we have 12 comment cards, people who want to request to speak in person.
And we're going to do this again. I'll call the next two people; one will be on deck. So
first we have Liz Gildersleeve and on deck Crystal Cavanaugh.
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GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening. Liz Gildersleeve. Fountain Hills resident. I am
disappointed at the speed with which four of you approved the Target rezone, allowing
for the high -density apartments at the last town council meeting. I watched the entire
January meeting and I did not hear any substantive questions being asked of the
developer, nor were any concessions asked of the developer which could have
protected the town. I do agree that parts of the Target property need revitalization. I
don't agree, however, that high -density apartments are the only solution for this prime
piece of real estate. For example, did anyone ever consider asking whether condos or
townhomes could be built in this space or placing a deed restriction on the property,
turning them into condos at a future date? Regarding the four-story, high -density,
mostly one -bedroom apartments that the developer wants to build, no one asked or
even insisted on any concessions regarding density, height, fewer one -bedrooms or
more two -and three -bedrooms. I think we got a vague, hey, gee, we'll think about it
from the developer, but whatever terms the developer wanted, you readily conceded.
Additionally, no one asked the developer about the litigation he's involved in with a
local resident who wanted to open a vintage car company in the Target Plaza. Why was
a paying tenant turned away? Have others been turned away?
Finally, no one asked our own town economic director any tough questions either, in my
opinion. For example, what businesses has she specifically contacted or tried to recruit
for any of the open spaces at the Target Plaza? One of the few substantive questions
was actually asked by Mr. Skillicorn, when he asked about meetings with the developer,
and whether anyone had received any financial benefit from the developer. Given the
speed with which this was rammed through the public process, I did not think that
question was out of line. All you needed to say was no or ignore them. But for me,
watching the very defensive responses from several of you was not only telling, but
disturbing. It appeared that instead of putting residents first or looking out for
residents, as several of you promised during your campaigns, you were more interested
in looking out for the developer. This appeared to be a purposely rushed decision in
lockstep with the chamber and a contrived and well planned abuse of the public process
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with inadequate due diligence. Thank you for your attention.
MENDENHALL: While Crystal's making her way up, I just wanted to point out that there
is three call to the public written comments in your packet.
CAVANAUGH: Good evening, Crystal Cavanaugh, voter and resident. This really is a call
to the public. Reach out to me if you want to sign the petitions that could put this land
rezone for 316 high -density, 55-foot apartments and parking structure on the ballot in
August so the voters have a voice. And to be clear, this is what I am telling those who
choose to sign the petitions. No one is being lied to or fooled, as some of our so-called
community leaders are saying. Your signature puts this on the ballot. Your signature is
not an up or down vote. We have a very short time period to get a lot of signatures as
the only recourse to this council's rushed vote that left a lot of important negotiations
on the table and questions unanswered. The public hearing with P&Z was in December,
and they voted not to approve it as it was presented. The public hearing for your four to
three vote was in January. This was done quite quickly, and the public is just now
learning about the project and major rezone. And that general plan you like to
reference, it talked about revitalizing the Shea corridor. It did not specify a high -density
rezone on a valuable piece of land. Your own economic study said industry was the
most beneficial. The deed restriction for industrial with Target was pointed out by the
attorney. That too could have been negotiated by the developer, just as they did with
wanting the apartments. And to say apartments are necessary to save Target, that is an
assumption by some with no guarantee. Corporate Target actually made political
decisions in the past that affected its bottom line and continues to do so. To be clear,
this referendum ballot measure would be added to an existing election cycle, not a
costly special election of 40,000, like the school bond.
And let's talk ethics. Councilwoman Grzybowski did indeed call us RWAs, even if in a
roundabout way, to CYA. And then had the nerve to file a complaint against
Councilman Skillicorn for his legitimate questions about process. Councilwoman
McMahon called me a liar to my face last week at State of the Town, while also trying to
stop me from collecting signatures from where I stood. And let's not forget, the mayor
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ignored Skillicorn's request to table and move to executive but allowed McMahon to
speak and make a motion to vote. Then, of course, there are the many, many social
media posts and letters to the editor with ridiculous accusations, particularly to me.
From where I stand, the only ones who appear to be getting fooled and lied to seem to
be the citizens who trusted you to make fully informed decisions in the best interest of
this community. Hopefully, the voters will have a voice on this issue by signing a
petition to make that happen. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Larry Meyers, and on deck Faryl Palles.
MEYERS: Mayor, council, Larry Myers, resident. I'm standing here this evening, my
personal land use choices aside. As one of the citizens who filed for the referendum on
the ordinances voted on January 17th council meeting to deliver facts and to refute that
this referendum is about misinformation by our group of citizens. In fact, the
misinformation is the information put out by the people who accuse us of
misinformation, if you can follow that. No straw man here, starting with those people,
riff raff, Section 8, RWAs, just let's stick with ordnance 24-01. What you voted in was
three basic premises. This town voted to allow a 55-foot high, high structure with a
P.A.D. density allowed as written, with the designated number of parking spots on 6.7
acres at the west end of Target. Period. End of story. That's what's on 24-01. That's
what you voted on.
Was signed by the mayor, Linda Mendenhall, Rachael Goodwin, and Aaron Aronson.
Nowhere in your vote does it tie any of the site plans, renderings, architecture, design,
layout that was presented by the $800 an hour lawyer for Sandor, the developer, who,
by the way, even stated that all of what they were presenting was preliminary and
subject to the rezone vote. Further, none of that pertains to just this developer, but any
future developer. After all, Jason Morris stated, quote, "my client is in the shopping
center business," unquote. Town P&Z was trying to get this point across and correct it
when it made the recommendation to not approve as proposed. One of them actually
spoke at the Jan 17th meeting and pointed this out. Unfortunately, you did not listen
and thus got taken advantage of. The AZBEX article that was trotted out by our town
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economic development director, with Fountain Hills being hard to work with, will now
be rewritten to say, get a smooth, expensive attorney and Fountain Hills will believe
anything that's said. As written, 24-01 allows a 55-foot high box, as it were. No
particular architectural design and enough parking for the designated allotment. Since
the design is not tied to the P.A.D. through a development agreement, the parking
structure could actually be standalone and not wrapped as shown in the drawings. Very
pretty drawings means nothing to the rezone; swallowed, hook, line and sinker by you.
Worst of all will be if the citizens are unsuccessful in this referendum process. There is
nothing the town can do to correct your mistake, as any design is possible. With these
facts, I challenge you to deny these facts. All councilmembers should support the
referendum wholeheartedly, and better hope that we get enough signatures to get it on
the ballot. And smart citizens in this town can correct the mess that's been made by 24-
01 as written. Thank you very much.
MAYOR DICKEY: I just want to point out that council does have opportunity to respond
when we're done with call to the public.
PALLES: I'm Faryl Palles, 21-year resident of Fountain Hills. I'm also an ally of the LGBTQ
community. I'm here to address hate speech right here in River City. Recently,
Councilmember Allen Skillicorn posted a photo on X of the rainbow flag hanging in a
classroom. In the post, he tells parents to homeschool their kids, ostensibly to protect
them from indoctrination. As I'm sure you know, non -heterosexual persons are accused
of grooming young people to adopt a, quote, "gay lifestyle". This post says that the
LGBTQ population means to brainwash our children, but the social media post that
turned my concern into outrage was a cartoon video posted by Mr. Skillicorn on X. A
turkey at Thanksgiving gathering protests that he is not a bird. He experiences himself
as human, he says. He is then mocked, laughed at. Fast forward to the final image of
the video, the smiling host at the open oven door with the butchered turkey in a
roasting pan. This cartoon is directed at transgender people. This cartoon evokes the
ovens Nazis used to rid the world of Jewish people. Nazis also killed people suspected
of being homosexual. Nazis called Jewish people vermin and homosexual people were
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labeled as deviant. Nazis decided who got to live. The cartoon is a dog whistle
encouraging violence against transgender people. We are joined this evening by
Fountain Hills residents here in solidarity with the LGBTQ community. We ask the
council to take action against councilmembers who spread hate against targeted groups.
Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Pam Cap, and on deck Beth Culp.
CAP: Good evening, Madam Mayor, councilmembers. My name is Pam Cap. My family
and I have resided here for eight years now. Each of the councilmembers took an oath
when they were elected to support the Constitution of the United States and the State
of Arizona, and the laws of Arizona. Those include Fountain Hills, and it's the
councilmembers' responsibility to know what they can and cannot do. Just to refresh
this council's memory, on January 18th, 2022, Mayor Dickey issued a proclamation with
One Community and signed the Unity Pledge. It in part states we are committed to
fostering, cultivating, and preserving a culture of inclusion, fairness and equality
regardless of age, color, disability, marital status, race, religion, gender identity, sexual
orientation, veteran status, and any other characteristic that makes us unique. It's time
to ensure equality for all Arizona employees, residents, consumers and it's the right
thing to do. It's also good for business. Skillicorn reposted the attacks -- let me. Okay.
Well, Skillicorn reposted the attacks, hoping to go viral, each time belittling and
demeaning residents more and more. Is that the great economic development idea?
Does that fix our roads in any way? Skillicorn is promoting Fountain Hills as
homophobic. We are already leaning towards racist; do we really need to add
homophobes to the list? In fourteen months, Skillicorn has accomplished nothing that
impacts our community as a whole in a positive manner. He has only brought negative
attention to Fountain Hills, chaos and confusion on this council. He has stalled and
dismantled plans that took months to prepare.
One last thing. Councilmember Skillicorn refers to those standing up to his blatant
disregard and disrespect for rules as bullies, even though he is the one doing the
attacking. He seems to believe he is above the law. Does he really need to be reminded
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of the $88.3 million judgments against the former elected official, who thought it was
wise to attack, target, and demean private citizens? Skillicorn is a liability for Fountain
Hills. The only one wasting tax dollars -- taxpayer money is Allen Skillicorn. We deserve
better. We deserve councilmembers that help Fountain Hills not die, but flourish.
Thank you.
CULP: Good evening, council. Good evening, Mayor. My name is Beth Culp. In getting
ready for this presentation, I reflected back on one of the first things that kind of
surprised me about Councilmember Skillicorn on his Twitter account -- it was a Twitter
account then. He described himself as Fountain Hills councilmember. I don't know --
councilman and agent of geopolitical chaos. And I thought, oh my, what is that about?
Well, now I know. Now I know. The playbook for creating chaos for the purpose of
destabilizing communities and governments often begins with targeting a minority
group. The focus will be on one minority group, and then on the next, until there are
none left. Mr. Skillicorn, like many other self -identified chaos agents, selected members
of the transgender community to attack. There are four narratives -- and they are
definitely narratives, you can find them all online -- that are employed by chaos agents
to denigrate and demonize trans people. The first narrative promotes the unsupported
claim that transpeople are grooming children for sexual exploitation; they are
pedophiles. We've seen those posts on Mr. Skillicorn's social media. The second
narrative is that gender identity is fake. You mock people because they identify with a
gender different than the one that was assigned to them at birth. Those people are
called ridiculous and fake. They're mocked in animations and videos, like the one we
talked about at the last meeting and I hope you've all taken the opportunity to view.
The third narrative claims that trans -inclusive policies, like allowing fake girls and
women to use restrooms designated for real girls and women, will result in sexual
assault. Mr. Skillicorn has engaged that narrative as well on his social media. The fourth
narrative, also found on Mr. Skillicorn's social media, is that gender affirming education
and counseling is indoctrination, and gender affirming care is mutilation.
Isn't it clear that Mr. Skillicorn's quest to become an agent of geopolitical chaos, or
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maybe just to advance his political aspirations, has brought him in conflict with the rules
of ethics, the ethical code that this town enacted, and that he agreed to follow. Mr.
Skillicorn has seven ethics complaints that have been brought against him that are still
pending. Do you really need an outside lawyer to -- sorry. Anyway, that'll be the topic
of my next presentation. I may end up being here as often as Ms. Cavanaugh.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Cayla Obasan and if I said your name wrong, please
correct me. And then on deck, Reverend David Felton.
OBASAN: Good evening, everyone, town leadership. I will go through two facts and
figures first. The FBI warned us that the greatest threat to any town is a lone wolf acting
on hate. Number two, the 2021 census showed that 20 million of the United States
population identify as LGBTQ-plus. End of facts.
To that 20 million add Parents, Families and Friends of Lesbians and Gays, PFLAG for
short. It can increase that 20 million by two X or three X. Me, I have more than 20
people here. We are here. We have lived here. We are voters here. We pay taxes
here. This is the first time, through many mayors and town councils, that we have been
a target. This needs to stop. What is the big elephant here in the room? What is our
big ask? I respectfully ask and challenge this leadership to evaluate, enable, edit, update
our code of ethics, including the oath of office. Give it legal teeth. Give it enforceable
sanctions during ethics investigations. Give it clear consequences. Disarm hate so that
you do not have to stand in some future date and say my thoughts and prayers. By then
it is too late. By the way, I did not give you my real name because I was already stopped
in this town. For my safety I made sure I did that. Disarm hate rhetoric so that
prejudice of any kind, malice, and discrimination towards any group of any kind shall not
be a part of public service. You have a chance here, your golden moment for yourselves
and your successors. Thank you.
FELTON: Mayor Dickey, Councilmembers. I'm Reverend David Felton from the
Fountains United Methodist. As a pastor who is deeply committed to fostering a
community that is grounded in love, understanding, and acceptance, I feel compelled to
address recent statements made by several councilmembers that have caused distress
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and concern among our LGBTQ-plus neighbors. In the past, Fountain Hills has prided
itself on being a welcoming community, embracing individuals from all backgrounds,
even going so far as to declaring a Golden Rule Day back in 2021 and aligning itself with
One Community's unity pledge. Recently, it has been disheartening to witness rhetoric
and social media posts from members of this council that seem to intentionally alienate
and marginalize members of our town, especially LGBTQ-plus neighbors. As a
representative of a faith community that seeks to put love first in all that we do, I
believe it is crucial for us to reflect on the core principles that unite us, values like
compassion, like empathy, and the Golden Rule. It's my hope that all of us, especially
our elected officials, can rise above personal prejudices and divisive language and in the
spirit of the Golden Rule, choose to prioritize respect for one another and treat others
the way we all wish to be treated. At the Fountains, our mission is to put love first, and I
challenge all of us to do likewise. And acknowledging the richness of our differences,
the benefits of finding common ground, and creating a community where every resident
feels acknowledged, valued and included. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Please. No applause. Appreciate it. I just did it.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Betsy LaVoie, and on deck Kim Bartman.
LAVOIE: Good evening, Mayor, Council, Betsy LaVoie, Fountain Hills resident. First, I
want to thank Bo Larsen for sharing the town interns. That's always exciting and to
giving the Fountain Hills Unified School District and the chamber a shoutout for that
workforce intern program that we're so proud of. I'm here tonight because numerous
residents have expressed concerns to the Chamber about being misled into signing
papers for a referendum on the redevelopment of the Four Peaks Plaza, also known as
the Target Plaza. Some residents claim they were given inaccurate information, such as
concerns about insufficient water, potential parking issues, and problems with the
sanitary district capacity. These statements have been found to be untrue, raising
concerns about the integrity of the signature collection process. To address these
concerns, we respectfully request, if possible, that you communicate through a town
communication that there is a process, a signature withdrawal form available for all
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residents who felt misled. It's important to clarify, the referendum, if successful, could
potentially delay the development project for up to almost a year and in worst case
scenario, could lead to overturning the elected officials' decision, resulting in the
cancellation of the revitalization of the Four Peaks Plaza.
Providing residents with this accurate information will help dispel any misinformation
and ensure transparency in this crucial decision making process. Thank you.
BARTMAN: Kim Bartman, resident of Fountain Hills. I would just like you to be sure that
all councilmembers have gone to fountainhills.az.gov and look at the rules of procedure
from September 6th, 2023. On there, you will find what your rules are and what your
responsibilities are as councilmembers. First of all, you need to have public confidence.
You should conduct yourselves so as to maintain public confidence in town government
and the performance of the public trust. You recognize the responsibility when serving
in your official capacity and will practice the following: engage in constructive
conversation, debates, and encourage -- sorry. Encourage avoiding personal attacks,
derogatory language, making verbal attacks of character from fellow councilmembers,
boards, commission, staff, and the public. Avoid making disparaging remarks about
other members, staff, public. Also -- sorry I'm so nervous. Also, you can refer to page
23 and 24 as well, and it talks all about how your role is to support all people in Fountain
Hills, no matter what their LGBTQ-plus orientation, their religion, all of those things you
need to. I'm a nurse, and I take care of all people, and your job is to take care of all
citizens and represent all of us. And thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Greg Johnson and on deck Kim Wolborsky.
JOHNSON: Good evening, I'm Greg Johnson. Obviously, I live in this town and I want to
comment on what occurred at the last town council meeting. And I'll cut to the chase. I
don't have any notes. I'm winging this off the top of my head, which is what I normally
do. When Councilman Skillicorn asked a very appropriate question, I know he's loud,
literally; he doesn't need the microphone. He speaks. I know he's a little blunt. I'm
from Connecticut. I'm used to it. We're wedged between New York and Boston, so he
doesn't offend me. But when he asked the question, my initial thought was, what does
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he know and why is he asking? Before I could come up with a coherent thought, all of a
sudden I witnessed your version of Tora! Tora Tora! Attack, attack, attack. And I said,
no, that's not right. I said, if you could -- as someone else previously stated, you could
answer the question, yes, with an explanation or no. But you just went off on a guy.
And the optics of that are very, very bad. Even though I suspect you're innocent. You
look guilty when you act that loudly and you attack somebody like that, what are you
hiding? And then the meeting went on and went on and it was very well behaved, as
Mayor Dickey asked. And at the very end of the meeting, somebody had the poise, the
maturity, and quite frankly, the intestinal fortitude to stand up and answer that
question. That was a 25-year old -- just turned. She could be your daughter. And she
answered that question, maybe belatedly, but she answered it. My personal opinion, I
think, is and the opinion of some others I've spoken to, you embarrassed yourself. You
washed your dirty linen in public. You should have taken that behind closed doors,
executive session, or out in the hallway versus getting that loud and disruptive attacking
Councilman Skillicorn. He maybe deserves to be attacked sometimes, but that wasn't
one of them. That was not one of them. And I I'm not offended by your RWA comment.
I'm one of them. But I'll use the word A for American.
WOLBORSKY: Hello, I'm Kim Wolborsky and I'm a Fountain Hills citizen of four years and
very grateful every day to be here. And what called me to come up and do the call to
the public is I just wanted to say how much I love the snowbirds and how welcome you
are and how much you add to our town, and I really appreciate all of you. It's so lovely
that you're here in the winter to give money to our restaurants and pay your home
taxes and all that, and then we get the little town all to ourselves in the summer, and
we're so happy to see you when you come back. So that's what made me come up
here. And while I was here, though, since I have time, I will mention that Barry and I
also have petitions, if anyone is intimidated by Crystal and doesn't want to talk to her. I
was also concerned about how quickly and how finally this development passed through
the town council. And you know, I've heard some concerns. I've heard concerns, you
know, my husband is an ex -firefighter. He's like, that building is too tall for our ladder
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trucks. I've heard a number of other concerns, and I just think it would be good to slow
this down or get another -- get another perspective on it. And lastly, I would like to
thank Councilmember Skillicorn for sticking to his agenda that he was elected on, which
was to work on our roads. And you know those are the things that he votes for in this --
oh wait, not lastly. My very lastly is Councilmember Grzybowski, you can tease me any
time. That's all I got. Thanks.
MENDENHALL: We did have a late comment card. Will you entertain it?
MAYOR DICKEY: Sure.
MENDENHALL: Okay. Ed Stizza.
STIZZA: Good evening, Madam Mayor, town council, staff and the residents of Fountain
Hills. I'm going to be as short as I can. Most everything was said already regarding the
development and was said well. I mean, I've tried to explain to people from all over the
country that have watched all of you, including P&Z, and I can't even answer some of
the questions. And some of those questions should have been asked up here. And they
weren't. And it has been pushed through fast, and there wasn't any reason other than
the developer's interest, to push it through the way you guys did. You didn't listen to
P&Z at all, nor did you discuss it publicly if you listened to it. And that's a problem. So
especially on this type of development and what it could do. At the beginning, nobody
was truly against the apartments. Yeah, we've got some great ideas and some things
that could be in place of it. But at the same token, you guys created the problem, so
somebody's got to take responsibility for that. I mean, these petitions -- or I mean the
referendum is happening because of your decision and the way it happened and why
nobody is acknowledging that up there, I can't believe it. I mean, I've watched that
meeting four and five times. I'm one of those that will try to listen to everybody's
viewpoint, I really do. And I think this one there's you're hearing the right comments
and for you guys to let that lawyer and that developer do what they did to you was
unbelievable. And I don't know how it happened. Thank you, Peggy, for voting on it or
Councilman McMahon or councilperson McMahon. Thank you for voting on the sign.
And you also, Allen, I don't think everybody understood what that 22 acres really meant.
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And to give them the control that you gave them was unbelievable. And I really hope
the referendum goes through so that the voting public has a chance to speak up and
really look at all the issues regarding this. And I don't know how else to do it. I mean,
nobody came up with the right questions. You want better answers, you ask better
questions. I didn't hear any of them. P&Z did, and they passed them all along to you
guys. None of those were even discussed, at least publicly, and there was no executive
session so for whatever reason, on such a major subject. So why wouldn't you go over --
why wouldn't you go over all those in public, all those concerns? So I hope that you're
able to take a second look at it. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Mayor, we do have one other call to the public that was missed. Tammy
Bell.
CLERK'S NOTE: Councilmember Hannah Toth left the dais at 7:26 p.m. and returned at
7:28 p.m.
BELL: Good afternoon. Tammy Bell, resident, Mayor, vice mayor and council. In 2011,
our town partnered with the Fountain Hills Coalition to create cannabis regulations,
aligning with our values and proactively protecting our youth. However, in my opinion,
these ordinances are not up to date considering the changing state laws, legalization of
marijuana, the increased availability of substances in Fountain Hills. I respectfully
request the town council to direct staff for renewed collaboration with the Coalition and
our community to consider necessary changes for substance related ordinances. This is
why I believe it's necessary. Recent data is concerning. Students who took our survey
told us they live in 85268. They don't necessarily go to school here, that 35 percent of
them were offered marijuana in the past 30 days of taking this survey; 14 percent
admitted to using marijuana in those past 30 days, indicating a nearly 4 percent increase
from our 2020 data, surpassing the state by 1 percent. Students tell us that they get
marijuana from their friends, from dispensaries, and from their family. Residents are
also concerned, as they shared in our survey, 78 percent are worried about youth using
marijuana concentrates and 76 percent expressed general concern about youth and
marijuana use. They're right to be concerned. Marijuana is not safe in all forms for all
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people. You are misinformed if you were told otherwise. Science tells us that marijuana
poses damaging risk to youth, young adult brain development, and increased
accessibility and potency correlates to these dangers. Effects include learning
difficulties, coordinating issues, memory loss, fatigue, mood swings, volatile behavior,
illegal activities, hallucinations, anxiety, depression, and so much more. If we think this
isn't happening in our community, we're wrong. One of my Fountain Hills doctors here
shared with me recently that he sees a lot of marijuana use in regard to teens and
adolescents that are brought to their facility. The teens, he said, come with cannabis.
I'm going to say this wrong, hyperemesis. This is painful, out -of -control nausea,
vomiting, retching, abdominal pain from marijuana use. There's additional data I'm
providing for you regarding the correlation to marijuana and childhood fatalities in
Arizona, as well as a correlation to increased teen suicide related to deaths in states
with both legalized medicinal and recreational marijuana.
All of this data I provide is to highlight a pressing need. It is evident that the town's
approach to cannabis and substance related needs to adapt to our current reality. We
can do more, we can be more. We can provide an environment that protects our youth,
as well as our adults who are vulnerable to substance use disorders with appropriate
and thoughtful regulations.
Please consider directing the staff to review, research and update our substance use
ordinances. In collaboration with the Coalition and with its community members. I'm
ready to meet with anyone who wants to meet and review that, to create ordinances
that protect us. Thank you. Because I have data, I just --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. There were quite a few comments. And council does have
the right to address those even if it wasn't on the agenda. So if anybody would like to
say anything. Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you. Well, I dislike doing this. Crystal Cavanaugh stood up in a very
condescending, disrespectful manner and made comments that I don't appreciate. The
other day, when I was walking into the community center to the mayor's State of the
Town, I had difficulty accessing the entrance due to the petition signers. I mentioned to
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Crystal -- a quick personal conversation, asking her to move away from the entrance to
allow for access. And she turned around and she just snarled at me. Petition gathering,
blocking entrances is against the rules. In addition, I have also overheard comments
being made by petition gatherers to entice them into signing a petition. Even though I
observed the woman who signed it was clearly confused and didn't realize what she was
signing and was told she wasn't making a choice, she was just signing a petition.
Whenever you sign a petition, you make a choice to support what you're signing for.
In addition, I have had numerous people come up to me and say that they have spoken
with the -- that they were asked by the petition gatherers for signature and they were
told mistruths and untruths, and this included a conversation or two with Crystal in
order to entice them into signing the petition. Some of these were mentioned by Betsy.
All of these, you know, when you gather petition signatures, you must be truthful,
forthright. And ensured the best you can that that person understands and knows the
referendum or whatever it is you're putting forth for ballot, that they understand it.
You know, the Arizona Secretary of State's office has rules against this and rules against
intentionally misleading and stating misleading facts. And they even have a remedy for
this, as Betsey mentioned; if you feel as though you have been manipulated into signing
a petition, you can call the town clerk and request that your signature be withdrawn.
And in addition, I would like to say to Crystal, I would love to sit down and have a
conversation with you face-to-face and to continue this conversation. You have my
contact information.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anyone else want to say anything? Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL: Yes, I have a couple questions. Maybe this is for Aaron. I don't know if John
Wesley's in the room. Now that we've passed that zoning agreement for the Target
Plaza, what is our ability to tie the site plans and the architectural renderings and
pictures that we were all showed on the council, that were presented to this council to
vote on for this for future development or any other developer down in that area?
WESLEY: Mayor, councilmember. Everything that you saw is tied directly to the
approval and will be what is used by staff later on to review any future proposals. Part
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of the requirements are that the ordinance and those associated documents will be
recorded at the -- with the county assessor's office, so they'll be readily available for
anyone to see what has been approved, which includes so all so (indiscernible).
FRIEDEL: So all the renderings --
WESLEY: Yes.
FRIEDEL: - if they were to sell that property, the renderings all stay in place.
WESLEY: Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL: Okay. And then my other point that I wrote down here is what is the value of
this to the town, the site plans and the rendering that were presented for our vote on
the 17th, if there is any?
ARNSON: You mean financial value to the town?
FRIEDEL: Yeah.
ARNSON: Well, although I don't know a number of financial value off the top of my
head, I believe that the developer's presentation was such that it would generate
various taxes and drives tourism income and those things that were discussed. So I
don't have a better answer than what was presented at the meeting.
FRIEDEL: Thank you. I have one other question, and this is for Pam Cap. You've come
into this council numerous times asking us to admonish Councilman Skillicorn. I'm
showing this picture to the mayor and the vice mayor that a resident in this town sent to
me of a donkey humping the rear end of a president of the United States.
CAP: Former president of the United States.
FRIEDEL: It's still known as a president.
CAP: Who's a rapist and a racist.
FRIEDEL: So you're --
CAP: And a convicted felon.
FRIEDEL: So you're smarter --
SKILLICORN: This is not a debate.
FRIEDEL: I'm -
SKILLICORN: This is not a debate. This is an.
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CAP: He asked me a question. I have a right to --
SKILLICORN: Excuse me.
CAP: -- reply, don't I?
SKILLICORN: Point of order, ma'am. This is not a debate. The councilman has the
microphone --
MAYOR DICKEY: I haven't recognized everybody here. Aaron, I think we're probably
knocking on the door a little bit of --
CAP: You want to talk to me, reply to my emails. You reply to my emails.
ARNSON: Stop.
CAP: You replied to my emails.
ARNSON: Everybody stop right now.
CAP: Stop cutting people off.
MAYOR DICKEY: Calm down.
ARNSON: Right now. Mayor and council, this is absolutely beyond the appropriate
realm of where we're supposed to be at. So if any member of the public speaks out or
shouts out again, Mayor, I would strongly suggest that that individual be removed from
this chambers for disorderly conduct. We should not hesitate to do that. That's my first
point. The second point is with respect to calling people out, specifically Mayor,
Councilmember Friedel, I would suggest that you make the statement to respond as
opposed to engage in a back and forth, because it's not going to be productive.
FRIEDEL: Okay. So my statement then is we're being asked to admonish somebody.
CAP: You're an elected official. Act like it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
ARNSON: Mayor.
FRIEDEL: We're being asked, Aaron. We're being asked to admonish this
councilmember when this person is posting stuff on social media that's just as flagrant
and just as bad. We --
MAYOR DICKEY: Let's --
FRIEDEL: -- are not here to deal with this, take this somewhere else and quit disrupting --
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MAYOR DICKEY: Council --
FRIEDEL: -- our council meeting.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- I'd like to just say something. They some of those folks are asking us
to take a specific action that's within the realm of our action. And it's not related to
something that they do. We have a code of ethics. And so I think we're being asked to
use that code of ethics to take an action that is within our realm.
FRIEDEL: They have filed -- what she say? Seven ethics violations on him. Let the
process carry out and let's finish the process that way. This is the fourth time we've had
a disruptive council meeting because of this.
MAYOR DICKEY: We've had disruptive council meetings quite often for a lot of different
reasons. I'd like to put an end to this if I could --
FRIEDEL: You're the chair, ma'am.
MAYOR DICKEY: There is a couple of specific things about the development that I'd like
to just address. The fact that no one seconded the motion to table. So that was why
that didn't happen. And also the idea that the development is something that was new
or shoved through, as -- if you folks would want to look at that meeting again, we'll go
through the plans and the fact that the economic development plan, which was seven -
oh, it wasn't just some vague thing about Shea Boulevard. It specifically talked about
multifamily and workforce housing and less -- there was another thing. But basically,
oh, that in 2021 and in 2022 and 2023, this topic was in the State of the Town, so it
wasn't a new thing. So I just wanted to get that out there as far as the development
goes. Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just to briefly address this issue of calling out
the council on taking bribes and inappropriate communications -- time honored politics
reminiscent of the McCarthy hearings when they said, are you now or ever been a
member of the Communist Party? By doing so you're putting the people in a position
where it's like, are you still beating your wife? If you say, I am not, then you admitted
that you were beating your wife. If you say I was, then you've just admitted guilt. What
Mr. Skillicorn did here was a very simple deflection from his inappropriate behavior
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trying to cast doubt on this council that we've been collecting bribes, that we have had
ex parte communications, which doesn't even make sense, because that applies to a
judicial proceeding about lawyers talking to judges. So he just throws a lot on the wall
and just sees what happens. This is reminiscent of what, in the military, they call a
drumhead trial, where there's no process. They turn the drum over and they dispense
justice quickly. If Allen felt that he had evidence of inappropriateness of this council or a
bribery or inappropriate communications, you take that to an investigator. The
investigator -- which is the process that you do. They launch an investigation, they get
the evidence, and they see if charges should be filed or not. If Allen has information
that one of this council is corrupt, it is incumbent on him to turn that information over
to the police. Because I want to know, too, if one of us has been collecting bribes, I
don't think they are. I think this was a deflection to serve his political interests. But for
us to say or to have not to say on that night, that we didn't do it. Well then they're
saying, well, if we wouldn't have defended ourselves, then you're guilty because you
didn't defend yourself. If you defend yourself, like some of us did, well, now you're
guilty -- and I've read this on social media -- because you defended yourself. Is this still
America? This is how they do it in third world countries. It's absurd. And so I wish we
could get back to normal order in this council. I wish we could quit the cheap political
stunts and the games. Quit attacking our councilmembers and our residents and just do
your damn job.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Stop. Stop. Stop, please. We're going to go on to the consent
agenda now, if there's nothing else.
Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Motion to approve consent agenda A through F.
TOTH: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is that everything? Is that all of it? Okay. Thank you, all. Roll call
please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
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MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Our first item on the regular agenda is to approve resolution 24-05 regarding a
moratorium on 5G services. This is Rachael or who?
GOODWIN: I'm going to let Aaron do this one.
ARNSON: Are you sure?
GOODWIN: I'm sure.
ARNSON: Okay. Mayor and council, I'm introducing this item tonight. Briefly, by way of
background, the council will recall that beginning in roughly late 2022, early 2023
several members of the public brought to the town's attention issues related to 5G
wireless health concerns. The nature of that conversation has more or less evolved over
time, but the council directed us to retain the services of a couple of consultants in
succession. In the meantime, last May, the council will recall that the couple members
of the public ultimately proposed and was requested that it appear on the agenda
what's called a 5G moratorium, which was passed by a majority of the council in May.
That called upon builders and developers to cease the buildout of such wireless
facilities. The expiration date of that resolution and the accompanying moratorium was
the end of the last year. As we are advancing proposed changes to our ordinance
through planning and zoning and eventually to the council, which is expected to be
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here, I believe, later this spring. Councilmember Kalivianakis requested in the interim,
during the last council meeting, that we extend it pending completion of staff review
and P&Z and council considerations. So what's before you tonight, as you read in the
staff report, is a verbatim proposed re -adoption of what the council adopted last May,
with the sole change that it's the moratorium is extended under the terms of the
proposed version to the end of the fiscal year, June 30th, 2024. And with that, I or staff
are happy to entertain any questions or comments.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any comment cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, mayor, in your packet you have written comments the total of
three for and ten against, and then we have a written comment from a person who
came in person, they just want to let you know that they are against it. So that's a total
of 11, and that was Peggy Yeagain.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman, you were -- were you going to say
something?
MCMAHON: Can we start talking about the 5G or no?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, as long as there aren't any other public comments.
MCMAHON: Good evening. If everybody looks at your phones, you already have 5G.
You're using it. It's updated technology, but yet you're asking for a moratorium on it.
Doesn't make sense to me. Also, as discussed before, this moratorium conflicts with
federal law which specifically forbids such moratoriums, specifically, clearly making it
unlawful and unenforceable. And Aaron has mentioned this to us before. In addition,
the FCC sets forth rigorous standards for wireless technology, of which those companies
must comply for safety purposes. If you read this ordinance, there's a bunch of
allegations in it about purported health effects of 5G that are also expressly prohibited
under federal laws. They are merely personal allegations, unproven, and I don't agree
with them. The allegations also contradict the findings of major national and
international, well -respected health and science organizations that have studied the
effects of radio transmission repeatedly and shown them to not have these alleged
adverse health effects.
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In addition, part of our cell network involves FirstNet, a high speed wireless network
that specializes in innovative tools technology specifically built for public safety. A
moratorium would adversely affect how our emergency responders communicate while
serving our town. Also, should a cell company bring a lawsuit to condense this illegal, in
my opinion ordinance, the town cannot afford financially to defend it. And we really
wouldn't have that much to stand on, if anything at all. So once again, I'm against this
moratorium. I don't think it serves a purpose, and I'm not willing to agree with it merely
to placate our community. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. If you go in the Wayback Machine a year
ago, this council did approve the moratorium. It wasn't a split vote. It was a four to
three vote, of which councilmember McMahon did vote no. And I voted yes. I think
we're at that very same point right now, at loggerheads that we just have an agreement
to disagree. Respectfully. It's just good public policy to continue what this council had
established a year ago -- a moratorium on the 5G technology. It's just an extension that
will take us to where the ordinance will be written. It's in P&Z right now. They're doing
the finishing touches on it. It'll be popped up here, and then we'll vote on it. When we
vote on it. Then the moratorium, of course, will be lifted, because that's how the
wording of the original moratorium was. It will be a 5G moratorium until the statute or
ordinance is passed.
And so I'd also like to address whether federal law either allows or prohibits for
moratoria. And on this, I do have to admit some of our town folk did a lot of research
on this, and I give them a great deal of credit because they really dug into the statutes.
If you look at HR 3557, it was introduced May 22nd, 2023, in the 108th Congress. This
legislation was designed to streamline federal, state, and local permitting and regulatory
reviews to expedite the deployment of communications and other purposes. Now, in
part, this legislation reads. Section 4, no moratoria. And I won't go into the verbiage
but suffice it to say that this House resolution says that, we are going to say that you
can't -- local governments can't do moratoria. And so the logical question is, is if this is,
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as a councilmember alleges, if this is already settled by federal law that no moratoria
are acceptable, then why are they trying to codify it now into federal law? And so it
doesn't make sense. It's the law against redundancy. Why would they do something
they've already done? They wouldn't. And so it is still open. Lawyers I know and myself
and Aaron, we disagree on this and lawyers will disagree on this. That's why there's
courts of appeal and that's why there's supreme courts. Because the law isn't like
mathematics and it's subject to interpretation. And so whether you think it's
enforceable or not, I think that we should continue the moratorium until it comes from
our competent planning and zoning staff, comes to council, we debate it publicly, and
then we will decide on the new ordinance whether it's worthwhile or not. And so you
know, I would vote for this agenda item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: I'll say the same thing in fewer words, I suppose. The agenda item, this is a
conversation that we've had a few times, and to save everybody time, I think this is an
agree to disagree type situation, but the original moratorium was passed with the
intention of lasting up until the ordinance that we will be discussing very soon. So I
agree it's good policy to extend it. And with that, I motion to approve a resolution 2024-
05 regarding a moratorium on 5G services.
KALIVIANAKIS: I second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
FRIEDEL: And I had a comment to make too. This isn't 5G, your phones. We're not
taking anybody's phone. You're going to have your service. This is really broadband, is
what this deals with. It's not typical 5G communication type moratorium that we're
doing it. So I think we have a second.
MCMAHON: Excuse me. May I please speak?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilwoman.
MCMAHON: Cell communications are by wireless broadband, et cetera through radio
waves, whatever you want, microwaves, whatever you want to call it. So it does affect
it. And in addition to -- and reading from the agenda item, no state or local statute or
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regulation or other state or local legal and requirement may prohibit or have the effect
of prohibiting the ability of any entity to provide any interstate or intrastate
telecommunication service. So again, I disagree. I think it's plain on its face that this is
not an enforceable ordinance. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: Thank you. A brief comment. Whether you believe it affects your cell
phone or not is unimportant. The key to the topic is the concern over our health. And
over the last eight months, I've had an opportunity to talk to quite a few subject matter
experts. And due to lack of scientific research with peer reviewed studies, I will still be
voting no on this. But I do want to make it clear that your cell phone, however you
believe that happens, you're still going to have 5G coverage. The conversation of small
cell versus broadband versus the phone in your hand, has nothing to do with this
particular topic. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Well, that's kind of the -- this thing kind of did morph from
being about health and understanding some of those concerns to something totally
different. And that is really difficult to understand because it's broadband. But this is a
5G moratorium. It is an unenforceable action, whether you like 5G or not. And it also
ignores the fact that we've been getting input from folks who are concerned about this
because they want the best that they can get here. If people are living, are working
from home and that kind of thing. So yeah, anyway, I think we're ready for a vote.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
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TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: No.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Passes four to three.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Our next item is actually a hearing. So I'm going to open
the public hearing. We'II do what we usually do. We hear from staff, we hear from the
applicant, then we hear from folks, and we close the public hearing and then we discuss.
So we'll start out with our staff presentation. John?
WESLEY: Yes, Mayor and council. Good evening. I've got a brief presentation for you
this evening. First off, just a little bit of background. Chapter 24 of the town's zoning
ordinance deals with medical marijuana. It was adopted in 2011. It establishes various
location restrictions, as well as provides direction on applications and operation
requirements. The C-3 zoning district is the only zoning district that allows this use. And
you can see the list of various separation requirements for this use from other items in
the town. Given those well, we do have one operating dispensary in town on
Enterprise, south of Colony. And given the location restrictions you saw in the previous
slide, there's really no other place currently in town, given our zoning in those
restrictions, where another facility could go. So we have this one, and it's all that we're
likely to have. The operation requirements included in the code include some of these
things listed here that you can or can't do or need to do with regard to providing this
type of facility. We've received a request to amend our ordinance to adjust a couple of
operating procedures. One is to adjust the operational hours currently from 9 a.m. to 7
p.m., to extend those two additional hours in the morning and two additional hours in
the evenings, so from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. instead. We have surveyed other communities in
the surrounding area and found that our hours currently are most restrictive.
The other request is to remove the prohibition on delivery of services. Again, we've
researched other surrounding communities and found that they do allow deliveries.
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Those deliveries then could come into Fountain Hills. Staff recommended approval of
these two text amendments to the planning and zoning commission. They held a
hearing at their meeting last month and considered the proposed amendment.
Following their review, input, and discussion, they voted seven -zero to recommend
approval. That's my presentation. Any comments or questions for me?
MAYOR DICKEY: I think I'm going to ask to hear from the applicant. And like we did
before, jot down any questions you hear -- I mean, that you have and we can ask them
when it's our turn. Thank you.
SCHUBE: Okay. Let's see if I can figure this out. Mayor, Vice Mayor, members of
council. Lindsay Schube, for your record from the law firm of Gammage and Burnham,
40 North Central, Phoenix, Arizona. Thank you very much. And John, thank you for that
great presentation.
I hope to not be duplicative yet at the same time, answer some questions that you may
have before we get to them and then afterwards stand for any questions. So again,
Lindsay Schube. With me is Chloe Plaisance. She is a new lawyer with the law firm of
Gammage and Burnham, just passed the bar in October. So we're happy to have her.
And then applicant Tabitha Myers. She is general counsel for Phoenix Cannabis
Company. Let me tell you a little bit about Phoenix Cannabis Company. As you may or
may not remember, you did have a dispensary here. It was called Nature's Medicines.
They did request these changes in the past. I was not here. I was not part of those
applications. They were my client, but they thought they could do it themselves. So
there you go. Phoenix Cannabis Company has relocated back into your jurisdiction.
They opened in August 25th of 2023. This is their only location in Arizona. So when I
speak to you this evening, I truly am speaking to you as a Fountain Hills small business.
They do own and operate other dispensaries in New Mexico, but this is their only one in
Arizona. They're committed to Fountain Hills, and they really want to make this location
work to be successful not only for themselves, but to be a good member of your
community, for the community and for your residents.
A little bit about the history. As John stated, in 2010, Arizona voters approved
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Proposition 203 that allowed for the medical use of marijuana. Since then, the medical
marijuana program has proven to be successful and more importantly, safe. And I will
speak a little bit more about that as we move on to our presentation. More recently, in
2020, Arizona voters did approve the recreational use or the establishment license, here
in Arizona. It was approved by over 60 percent in the State. Maricopa County approved
it in the 60 to 70 percent range. And Fountain Hills voters did vote to approve it. But
again, what we're talking about today is not an ideological question. We are not
approving or disallowing the use of marijuana. This is simply an amendment to your
land use regulations for your Fountain Hills small business.
So as John stated, two things we are requesting, one to modify the hours. Again, the
hours of operation right now are regulated in your ordinance from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m., and
we are requesting 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. We are also requesting the removal on the
prohibition for delivery services. As of today's date, the only delivery that's permitted is
medical; however, by 2025, Proposition 207 does require that the state allow
recreational delivery.
Important to note, and as John stated, we are not suggesting any other changes. You
are the most restrictive ordinance, it's unbelievable. And it's your right to do so.
Jurisdictions are allowed to have restrictive ordinances in terms of the dual use licenses.
And you've said no establishment licenses; that's legal. You're allowed to be restrictive.
C-3 zoning, as well as your separation, we are not proposing that we change any of
those. Frankly, we're happy to be the only operator here in Fountain Hills. The two
changes we are asking for are very narrow in scope, and again, do not impact the ability
to have any more dispensaries. So why am I here? There's an increase in demand. The
first year of the active medical marijuana program, there are only 16,000 patients. In
2020, there were over 300,000 patients. Since today, there are less medical cards, only
123,000. Those costs money, registration with the state, all of those things. But I will
tell you that 2023 was the largest sales of marijuana use in the State of Arizona. 2023,
Arizona surpassed the $1 billion mark in marijuana sales, 267 million for medical and
797 million for adult use. Again, this is just the State of Arizona because every state has
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its own independent programs.
So as John said, and here is evidence, you are the most restrictive jurisdiction in the
State of Arizona in terms of hours. Now, this makes sense. When originally Prop 203
passed, no one understood how the program would function. No one understood if
these dispensaries would be safe and secure. You are limited by ten hours. I would
submit to you someone with a job, a husband, and three children getting to any
business between 9 a.m. and 7 p.m. I also have the privilege of speaking in front of
councils and planning commissions all over the state, that it's impossible to get to a
retail business in those hours for me, and for many of your residents. In your packet,
you do have a decent number of letters of support. As of this morning, we had 55
letters of support from Fountain Hills residents. We had more letters of support from
neighboring jurisdictions. I pulled those because I know what's important to you is your
residents. But there are 55 letters of support that we have submitted.
Scottsdale, which I think is our greatest competitor, is 6 a.m. to 10 p.m. You notice that
we did not ask for that. I didn't ask for that specifically because I wanted, on behalf of
my client, to ask for a respectful and responsible request. Our greatest competitors are
still, even if I'm approved, will have greater hours than we will, and we'll get into
delivery. But they will be able to deliver into your jurisdiction. Gilbert was just
approved December 12th, up to 10 p.m. I know, because we did that application, and
Chandler was approved to 10 p.m. in January of last year, so January of 2023. It is not
unique for businesses in this space to request text amendments. Again, as we move
through the process, as we realize that these businesses are safe and secure, we were
coming to jurisdictions to ask respectful answers. Sun City is one of the jurisdictions in
Maricopa County that does use a 6 a.m. open time.
So again, not only the increase in demand, but these facilities are safe and secure. We
must have a security plan on file with the Department of Health Services. There is
surveillance cameras that have a 360 degree angle, on the exterior and interior of our
business; 24-hour independently monitored security alert system. And it is secure
access point fobs for anywhere where there is product you cannot reach in the
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dispensary. There is also ID checks. You cannot get in the dispensary. It's checked
twice with a machine as well as by a person. You have to be 21 or older to enter a
dispensary. I submit to you, liquor stores, drug stores, gas stations, gun shops have far
Tess secure access than we do. There are a lot of concerns for youth in our community.
There is vapes -- like I said, I'm a mom of three. I've got two in high school and one in
middle school. It is terrifying out there, but I would say liquor stores, grocery stores,
you can get all sorts of awful things and they don't have these controls in place. There
are over 13,000 liquor licenses in the State of Arizona. Three just passed on your
consent agenda for the Wine Walk. Sounds fun, I may come. Actually, I love coming to
these council hearings. You learn all the fun things that are happening in neighboring
jurisdictions. But not one mention about the youth. And what I would say, there's only
169 retail dispensaries in the entire state. They have to be safe and secure. If not, they
will lose their licensing.
If you don't believe me in terms of crime at dispensaries, either cultivation, infusion, or
retail dispensaries, this is a chart that was produced by the Tempe Police Department.
One percent of crime compared to dispensaries, pharmacies, and liquor stores; the least
amount of crime around the marijuana locations, in part because of the security. In
other neighboring jurisdictions, in Peoria, they were having a problem. One of the
dispensaries, there's four in Peoria, one of the dispensaries in Peoria -- not this client.
So sorry. Don't tell them I'm telling the story but is located next to a frozen yogurt
store. The frozen yogurt store was getting robbed. After the second robbery, the police
asked to use our cameras. And guess what? We found who was robbing the frozen
yogurt store. They were very happy. In Gilbert we did a sting because we thought one
of the customers had some issues. So we have actually found that there can be great
synergy between law enforcement and the dispensaries because of the security that's
required. Police officers from Peoria, Payson, Chandler, and Mesa have gone on the
record to say there are no problems with security at dispensaries.
So that's hours. And I can talk more if you have more questions. But as for the second
request, which is delivery, we are here asking for you guys to support, again, one of your
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small businesses. Fountain Hills residents can receive deliveries from Mesa, Scottsdale,
and Payson. I will tell you, Mesa and Payson, those were amendments. They were text
amendments in the same way that we're asking today, in part because we had to ensure
that the delivery was safe. Fountain Hills does not receive any tax revenue. Again, you
don't make land use decisions necessarily based on tax revenue, but I do believe it's an
important factor. Peoria just approved a delivery in January of 2023. And that's when
the police officer said they have no problems with marijuana.
So again, as for this. Not only are your residents receiving delivery today and then sales
tax is going to Scottsdale, Phoenix, Mesa, but I submit to you, if you allow delivery, you
can also capture sales tax from Scottsdale, Phoenix, Mesa. There are specific products,
like I said, only 169 locations in the entire state. We have requests from residents
outside of the Fountain Hills boundary who would like delivery of our product, and we
are aware of Fountain Hills residents who receive delivery today and would like it from
their dispensary. But I think one thing, and I added to this after the planning and zoning
hearing, because we've got a lot of questions about the safety and security, there is
valid ID checks that must be on file with the dispensary prior to any delivery. Once the
delivery is made, there are two ID checks that happen. There are cameras located in the
vehicle and on the delivery driver. There is a limit on how much delivery can be made a
week. You must complete and maintain a trip log and this trip log is not location A to
location B, it is north. I was going to say north on Shea. You can't go north on Shea.
East on Shea, north on 110th, east -- you need a trip by trip and it is a $500 fine. If the
Arizona Department of Health Services comes in one of its two unannounced
inspections every year, they will ask for trip Togs. If they do not have everything, it is
$500 per piece of paper that doesn't have north, south, east, west on it. They are
unmarked cars. The packages are sealed at the dispensary and they must be sealed
when the patients or customers receive them. The delivery person must have a means
of communication and they must be a facility agent, which means they've had a full
background check. They must -- it is state law that the product cannot be visible -- I
promise I'm almost done -- in the vehicle, and the amount of the product in the vehicle
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must match the amount that's on the trip logs. This is all to say, this is a highly, highly
regulated program. For a state that does not like regulation, this is very regulated and it
is proven to be safe and secure. Again, net positive impact on the town for both the
hours and the delivery if approved, the 2.9 sales tax goes directly to the town and then
the 16 percent MET tax goes to a number of different things. That's a high tides raise all
boats, right? It goes into a state fund and then it's delivered. But I will say the Maricopa
County Sheriff's Department, which I know helped you guys out here, got 3.6 million last
year as their portion of the MET tax.
As far as our operational impact, Phoenix Cannabis, the applicant tonight again, one of
your small business owners. Since opening August 25th, we've had a 40 percent
increase in revenue and a 50 percent increase in daily transactions. That is with -- and
councilmember, I understand you're big on the roads. The improvements on enterprise,
which were a little tough, but the town was fantastic in terms of working with us. We
did have a tough time the first week, but now we're very excited in terms of the
improvements of the roads there. If approved, at minimum, we will double our staff an
estimated 13 to 25 percent increase in revenue. In part, that's based on the snowbirds
that are in town that we had a -- and that we hope to increase even more.
So as an overview. How can I tell you these dispensaries are safe? In the City of
Phoenix, we have an annual status update for any marijuana facility every year. Every
facility we have police calls, neighborhood services, and the site is posted. I will tell you,
there are so minimal police calls because of the safety and security. We are in front of
you with a unanimous recommendation of approval from the planning and zoning
commission and 55 letters of support.
And just in closing, Tammy -- and I apologize. I missed her last name. Fountain Hills,
protect our youth coalition for the youth substance abuse prevention. I want to say
there was a recommendation that I reach out to Tammy and the coalition in terms of
her involvement in the community. And I did look at her website and it says
empowering Fountain Hills students to live a drug and alcohol free life. I want to state
on the record that we support Tammy and her mission. This is not about drugs, vapes,
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alcohol in the hands of children. This is a land use decision and so that's why I chose not
to reach out. That said, I do welcome any conversations with any member of the public.
So with that, I respectfully request approval. I know this is a complicated topic. I tried
to keep it as simple. I added some additional safety and security and background
information just because of the topic at hand, but respectfully request approval, Mayor,
Vice Mayor, council.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Since this is a hearing, we'll hear from the public, and then
we'll close the public hearing and we'll be able to discuss. Do you have speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, I do, but I do want to point out that there is 49 letters of
support in the packet. And then there's six additional letters of support. So there are 55
and those 6 are in your hand packet that you received. We also had written comments
25 were against it. And then there's 12 that were for it in your packet. And then we had
a in person comment card voice their opinion from Peggy Yeargin that she's for it. So
that's 13 for in person.
Now, we do have five people who have submitted a comment card to comment. We
will have Tammy Bell first and on deck, Tony Pierce.
BELL: Hi, my name is Tammy Bell. Mayor, Vice mayor, council, and staff. This took me a
long time to come to this decision. I'm asking you today to vote no for the text
amendment request. And this is why. Extending hours and removing delivery
restrictions should not be considered as one request. Specifically because eliminating
the ordinance that prohibits delivery is completely irresponsible. A responsible request
would be to amend the current restriction to allow medicinal delivery only, period, no
matter what the law says. Eliminating this ordinance, you're opening up to dispensaries
to deliver anything allowable as soon as the state changes our laws. The demand is
truthfully decreasing. The facts are, since the legalization of adult use, there has been
significant decrease in medicinal marijuana sales. In addition, I provided a traffic
analysis for you here. It reveals at a minimum of 28 percent decrease in traffic demand
to our four major marijuana industry providers in Arizona. This is consistent with many
articles that speak to the sales decline in 2023. You can see in the traffic analysis that I
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provided that the increased hours does not equate to significant increase in foot traffic.
That's on this page. Analysis shows that two percent or less of the total visits occurred
during 8 and 9. Ten percent or Tess of the total visits occurred during 7 and 8, and 8 and
9. Dispensaries show peak traffic occurring between 1 and 4 and 4 and 7. Additionally,
two hours, plus delivery, plus one business does not equate economic improvement for
Fountain Hills. The representative said so themselves, they do not have enough data to
show how this will impact our revenue. The revenue stated is provided to us from the
state, it is not due to this business or would increase because of this request.
It is my responsibility to tell you that the potential tax revenue does not outweigh the
potential risks that are associated with increasing access and availability of marijuana in
our town. I haven't heard enough sufficient data on how much marijuana leakage is
actually occurring to deliveries. I know they can, I don't know if they are. I called a
dozen dispensaries. I only got through to two of them one being Mint. They all told me
that they do not deliver to Fountain Hills. That's all I know on that.
It's dangerous. And this request increases a risk to those who are most vulnerable in
our town. When we ask if this is safe, we're not asking the right questions. We need to
ask what potencies are safe? What age is it safe for? How do they consume it safely?
Who should have it and who benefits from it? These are the questions we should be
asking before blindly suggesting that any dispensary open their doors longer than
necessary or have freedom to deliver in our town. The increase of access and
availability produces risk factors in our town for our youth, young adults, and those with
addiction and substance disorders. I urge you to say no to this request. For now,
Fountain Hills is a unique and safe community, but we can do more. Thank you.
I wanted to say in part I agreed with Lindsay, but I'm out of time, so I'll tell her
personally.
PIERCE: Mayor, council. My goodness, I'm getting late. It's been a long day. First of all,
let me just say thank you for the councilmembers that showed up for our celebration
and express their appreciation for our church. I'm Pastor Tony Pierce. I'm pastor of
Cornerstone Family Church. I'm not going to repeat all that, Tammy said. I agree with
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what she said. I would encourage you to vote no on changing these. Of course, I have
some ideological issues with this whole matter, but I understand things have already
changed as far as the law is concerned. But I like the fact that we are the most
restrictive town when it comes to the availability of these drugs. Marijuana continues to
be a gateway drug, and it has found its way into our young people's lives and into the
school. And anything we can do to, I know not eliminate that, but restrict it I would
encourage you to. So I respectfully ask you to consider voting no on changing these
hours. Thank you so much.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Shelley Mowery, and then on deck we have Matthew
Corrigan.
MOWERY: Mayor, Vice Mayor and council. My name is Shelley Mowery, and I'm the
past executive director of the Fountain Hills Youth Substance Abuse Prevention
Coalition. I'm still proudly on the board, but I also work with the Arizona High Intensity
Drug Trafficking Area, and I've been in youth substance use prevention for 23 years. I
thank you for the opportunity to discuss the issues before us tonight. First, I'd like to
agree with the advocate here, because the demand for medical marijuana has gone
down substantially. So when you think about delivery for medical marijuana, how many
people are we talking about? So there's been a huge decline actually since 2020. And
just looking at Maricopa County, because that's where we live, over the past three
years, there was a high of 196,000 medical marijuana cardholders in Maricopa County.
In 2023 that dropped to 75,000. That's a 61 percent decline in medical marijuana
cardholders in the State of Arizona. The advocates talk about the windfall of tax
revenue from delivery and extended hours. I believe I heard this correctly in the P&Z
meeting that on a good day, they make up to $1,500 a day in revenue, even if delivery
and extended hours doubled their business, that would increase the town's tax coffers
by about 34 bucks a day.
This request is more likely about clearing the path for recreational marijuana delivery.
While recreational marijuana delivery is currently illegal in the State of Arizona, Arizona
is mandated to have rules for recreational delivery by January of next year, just 11
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months. So if you decide to accept this recommendation to open the door for medical
marijuana delivery, Fountain Hills residents could soon have recreational marijuana
delivered to their door, just like pizza. Let's just put a pause on any decisions on delivery
of medical marijuana until the state moves forward with new rules expected in less than
a year.
Advocates also insinuated that Fountain Hills is an outlier and has the most restricted
opening times for dispensaries. But when I did a search online of dispensary hours
closest to Fountain Hills, most of them are open about the same number of hours.
Arizona Natural Selections, which is the closest, 8 a.m. to 7 p.m. MedMen of Scottsdale,
9 a.m. to 7 p.m. Ultra Health, 9 a.m. to 4 p.m. They're closed on the weekends. Zen
Leaf in Mesa, 8 a.m. to 9 p.m. The Wellness Clinic, 8 a.m. to 9 p.m., but they're only
open on noon to 6 on Sunday, and Kind Meds is only open 10 to 8 p.m. And finally, on
the safety surrounding delivery, nowhere could I find in the rules and guidelines on the
Arizona State Department's website on their medical marijuana program, does it state
that medical marijuana delivery programs are inspected twice a year. The word
inspection is not mentioned at all in the medical marijuana delivery guidelines, or on the
Department of Health Services website. I would encourage you to vote no on both.
Thank you.
CORRIGAN: Madam Mayor, councilmembers, Matthew Corrigan, homeowner and full-
time resident, Fountain Hills. Gammage and Burnham law office is asking an
amendment to Fountain Hills ordinance Section 24.03. I've read the narrative statement
of justification from the lawyer and would like to respond by each agenda item.
Number one, increase in sales tax. This is not a compelling benefit for the town of
Fountain Hills. The 2.9% sales tax increase revenue from an additional four business
hours of daily business is not significant enough to completely amend our existing
ordinance. This argument is then nullified by the note that marijuana users already get
free delivery from existing dispensaries outside of Fountain Hills. This does not justify
an ordinance change. Number two, increase in demand. This is not an appealing reason
for residents of Fountain Hills. What benefit does it really bring the town of Fountain
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Hills? Very little. Many businesses and industries have also increased demand. If that is
true, what does that have to do with making Fountain Hills unique, individualistic, or
improve in any way? Very little. Now, a little about marijuana. A National Institute of
Health on May 4th, 2023 said that young men with cannabis use disorder have
increased risk of schizophrenia. On October 1st, 2022, Dr. Ken Finn, president of the
American Board of Pain Medicine and a vice president of International Academy on the
Science and Impacts of Cannabis, said high -potency cannabis use is being linked to
poisonings in young children, as well as psychosis and schizophrenia in an increasing
number of regular users. A lot of my colleagues that work in psychiatry and emergency
medicine are seeing a sharp rise in marijuana related psychosis, Finn told NTD Nation
Speaks Out program interviewer. High potency THC tetrahydrocannabinol, the
psychoactive agent of cannabis, is generally about 10 percent, but some contain 40 to
60 percent THC.
Number three increase of competitive advantage. As I understand it, 207 the Arizona
legal status for recreational marijuana, effective January 1st, 2025, allows the same
facility to sell recreational marijuana after that time. Fountain Hills does not really need
a multitude of marijuana shops to make us just like Phoenix and so many places in
California, Oregon, Washington, and Colorado. I ask that you vote no on this
amendment change. Thank you very much.
MENDENHALL: We have one last comment card. Marsha Hoenle.
HOENLE: Good evening. Madam mayor and council. I am Marsha Hoenle. I live here in
Fountain Hills and have for about ten years. I speak differently than others because I'm
not -- I haven't done all the statistics. But anyway. I am part of the Fountain Hills
Protect Our Youth Coalition. I'm a sector leader, Kiwanis youth advisor, mentor for
Golden Eagle Education Foundation, also the scholarship coordinator and Maricopa
County foster care board review member. So as a lifetime educator, I propose we think
and act very carefully before widening the gates that will allow for greater access to
harmful substances that entice our youth. The coalition is doing a wonderful job of
informing our youth and their families of the potential danger of marijuana, cannabis,
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vaping, alcohol, et cetera. Does our small town really need greater access to products
that are particularly dangerous to youth? I don't think so. I was reading the Arizona
cannabis labeling, it says the following statement "Arizona Department of Health Service
warning marijuana use can be addictive, can impair an individual's ability to drive a
motor vehicle, operate heavy machinery. Marijuana smoke contains carcinogens and
can lead to increased risk of cancer, tachycardia, hypertension, heart attack, and lung
infection. Keep out of reach of children", in capital letters. So I think there are dangers
if children have access to it. I don't think we need to widen the gates to allow longer
hours or home delivery. I think it puts our children in danger. As I am on the review
board for Maricopa County foster care board review, I notice over the last ten years that
almost all cases that come before the board, involve the early use at some point of
marijuana or alcohol, or a combination of both. At young ages, people start getting
involved in that and it leads to addictions, which, as you all know, puts families in great
crisis. So cases of children and families in crisis points to the destructive use of drugs,
which in most instances does start in their youth. So I just figure it's important to say, I
would like you to vote no at widening the use of or having more access to.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. That it?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. We're going to I'm going to close the hearing
and then we can ask you questions and you can respond to some of the things that you
heard. So we'll close the hearing. Councilwoman McMahon has some questions. And
then I -- you can respond to what you heard and to us. Thank you.
MCMAHON: Thank you very much. And thank you very much for your presentation.
But what I heard is money, taxes, et cetera. I never heard anything about really,
basically, human health and safety, consumption, and potential addiction issues. It was
all about money and how it adversely affects Fountain Hills because we don't allow
delivery. I'm also a member of our Fountain Hills Youth Protection Coalition, and I am
very concerned about the lack of delivery guidelines and rules that would protect the
health and safety of not only our teens and their families, but those persons with
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addictive disorders in our community. The Coalition has worked really, really hard with
our schools, our emergency responders, the town and others to educate and reduce
drug use among our teens, young adults and it's been very, very effective. We don't
want to backtrack. You know, I know that people get issued medical marijuana cards.
They're issued by licensed physicians and psychiatrists, et cetera. I know there are many
young underage teens suffering from anxiety disorders due to social media and other
causes. Their psychiatrist, if they're going to counsel, may have issued a medical
marijuana card to their parent as their guardian, and they are the recipient, ultimately
the recipient of a delivery of marijuana. Can you ensure that it goes to them? Can you
ensure that it doesn't go to the 18-year old that that might be smoking marijuana, et
cetera? I don't know. You know, you have strong and stringent safeguards right now
where people have to go into the dispensary, they have to show up, they have to show
ID, they have to prove who they are in order to receive what their order is or their
purchases. There's police officers there, et cetera. To me, that states a lot about the
seriousness of the dispensary and dispensary marijuana, and I don't think that we can
ignore that. I have delivery concerns. Our ordinance is vague about any delivery
concerns to families, to youths, et cetera. Where can you deliver it? Can you deliver it
to schools? Can you deliver it to just residences? Can you deliver it to places of
employment? What if a park, a person happens to be sitting in a park and calls in the
delivery and wants it delivered there? Can you deliver it there? I mean, how can you --
and also I have a concern, even though reading what you said, the person -- it's very
strict in their delivery, they have to have ID, et cetera but still, you know, there's an
element, an air that concerns me there. Also, I just think that if the council is thinking
about passing this ordinance, that we absolutely need more safeguards in our
ordinance, specifically in town. If this passes, for example, in Camp Verde, they
specifically state it is unlawful to deliver marijuana in the Town of Camp Verde to a
person who is not a medical marijuana card holder as defined in Arizona, blah, blah,
blah, medical act. And in addition, just merely removing item number 4 to not provide
offsite delivery of medical marijuana. To me, that's insufficient. It's a negative versus a
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positive. And instead of still saying only medical marijuana can be delivered, I mean,
there are so many safeguards, as Tammy mentioned, that are of concern that given the
fact that there aren't, I cannot agree with passing this. And I know you're asking for two
different things, but they simultaneously go together. Because what are the delivery
hours? I mean, there's a whole plethora of concerns that I think need to be addressed.
And I ask respectfully, that if council is going to move forward with this, that we wait
two months or more and have that meeting, which I think you should have had, and I'm
not putting you down. I don't mean that negatively. I wish that you would have taken
the time to speak with Tammy about this before presenting it. And I think we all have
lessons learned. But if the council is so inclined to pass this, I would ask that we
continue it for a couple more months so that we can work with the council, with the
Coalition, the attorney, et cetera, to come up with some very, very needed safeguards
before anything like this is passed. So I appreciate your time and thank you. And I did
not mean to be disrespectful in any way. Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: You want to respond?
SCHUBE: I would Mayor, Vice Mayor, councilmember. You were not disrespectful. I live
in the world of we can disagree and not be disagreeable. So I take all your comments to
heart. If I may just, I'll talk about a couple of the comments that were made and
specifically councilmember McMahon -- I want to say it -- Councilmember, I will address
some of those because a lot of what you hit were other things that were said. One, so
again Prop 207 when it was approved in 2020 allows you to ban establishment licenses,
adult use and that's something you have done. However, the other thing Prop 207 says
is anything in your ordinance with regard to medical and establishment have to be the
same. So I have been very clear at planning and zoning commission and any
conversations, the striking on the prohibition of delivery, it would allow for adult use
delivery too. And I stand by the same argument that your residents will get delivery
from Scottsdale, Mesa, Payson and conversations we've had again recently, Peoria and
Payson have removed their prohibition on delivery, in part because their residents could
get it anyway. So yeah, so I unfortunately we can't do one without the other.
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Transactions are not down. They're up. Any quotes with regard to our revenue sales
were incorrect. So I don't know where those came from. But again, we are a new
business. We just came in in August of 2023, and we do hope to see increased sales, not
only from the increased hours. It's interesting, P&Z one of our issues, and I'm sure most
of you listen to it, was the commission wanted to give us more hours. They wanted to
give us 7 a.m. to 11 p.m., as opposed to 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. that put me in a very strange
spot. I normally don't get a commission volunteering to give me more than what I have
requested. The reason why is they made it akin to other uses in C-1. Again, grocery
stores, pharmacies, Circle K's in the C-1 zoning district, which is your most restrictive
zoning district, allows hours of 7 to 11 where you can get alcohol, vapes, all of those
things without the same safeguards.
I purposefully, respectfully told the commission, no. I want to ask for something that is
reasonable and respectful so that the council can support me in my request. As stated,
there are 13 more in -person requests here. There are 68 people in the town of Fountain
Hills who are requesting this. We're not asking it, you know, and the comment that
there is no statistics, there are. You have residents, 68, in fact, who have requested
delivery and the increased hours. And again, as for the request, you know, I think it's
also just a matter of fairness. You don't put the same hours on bars, on grocery stores,
on the Target, on all those things that do sell products that are challenging to our youth.
Again, you have to be 21 to get into a dispensary. The hours -- or sorry, the restrictions
on delivery, you have to be a facility agent. You have had a full background check;
you've got a camera on your person and in your car. I would submit to you if that is not
safe, I don't know what is. The state has not made its recreational rules yet, but they
have every indication that they are going to mirror what they do for medical. Again,
there have been not -- there is not one issue with medical delivery. And so the state has
said that they will mirror those same. They want it to be a safe and secure program, and
therefore there are a lot of restrictions in place.
And as for potency and ability to use, I think that's all part of Prop 207, not part of our
request tonight. So I'm not going to address those per se, other than we do -- this is a
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request for adults who are permitted and legally able to enter a dispensary and to get
delivery.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can you address the part about where it can be delivered, like when
Peggy mentioned a park and stuff like that?
SCHUBE: Yeah. Mayor. Absolutely. Thank you. And councilmember I apologize I
didn't -- we have to deliver to a specific place. We would not deliver to a school or a
park. We deliver to residences. Your ID has to be on file with the dispensary before,
and it -- would you never just like park -- and I and I apologize. Mayor, vice mayor for
how much I wander around the state. And by the way, I don't use this product either. I
like wine, that's why I want to come to your Wine Walk. Again, it sounds lovely. I'm a
wine drinker personally. And I -- Tabitha Myers, do you want to just whisper? Oh.
Mayor, councilmember. Again, it's so nice to have a general council and these are
proper businesses. I think that's also important. You know, originally in 2010, when
some of the licenses were awarded, the businesses were not as organized as they are
now. We must deliver to the address on their ID. So we cannot, Mayor and
councilmember, we cannot deliver to a park or a random address. It's the address that's
on their ID, which is uploaded in our system, is double-checked in the system. And then
when we get there, we need to check it again. And we take a picture of it. Sorry.
Mayor, councilmember. Also, there is a picture taken of the ID that again gets uploaded
onto the system and we need to save it in our records for a minimum of three years.
We keep those records for a minimum of three years. And so when there are the
unannounced inspections at the dispensary, they look at everything from delivery
regulations, inventory controls, lab testing, all of those things.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: I had a question that I'm not sure if it would be more of a John question, so I
apologize. There was a mention in the public comments that there's a possibility of the
state allowing for recreational deliveries. If that were to occur, and it would therefore
conflict with our ordinance, would that be another vote, or would this vote also include
the potential legalization of recreational deliveries?
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WESLEY: Mayor, councilmember. The way that would work is that whatever rules we
have for medical would apply to recreational once the state finishes their rule adoption.
TOTH: So to be clear, this vote tonight would extend on to if recreational deliveries
were allowed?
WESLEY: Yes.
TOTH: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
FRIEDEL: Thank you. Mayor. A couple comments and a couple of questions. I want to
remind that this council that we turned over all of our opioid settlement money to our
Coalition in town. And they're using that to educate and do other things with the youth
in this town. So I just wanted to mention that, we can't forget that. So it's important.
You mentioned the sales increase. Does that get you more customers or is it just more
use? Are you getting more customers or is it more use by the same people?
SCHUBE: Mayor, Vice Mayor, councilmember both. More and more customers. We do
have customers who now use a dispensary in Scottsdale or Mesa because it works in
terms of their business hours and where they work. They may reside in Fountain Hills,
but they use a dispensary closer to where they work because they can't get here
between 9 and 7.
FRIEDEL: So you mentioned that there were 68 people that were in favor of this
ordinance change. Are they being serviced right now adequately? Are they getting
what they need right now?
SCHUBE: Through, the mayor, vice mayor, councilmember they do not believe that they
are. We had other letters of support that I did not include, maybe I should have and I
can send after. From other jurisdictions, again, we have customers that want to come
from Scottsdale and other places. And no, you have residents in Fountain Hills who do
not believe they are being adequately serviced. They would like the additional hours to
be treated the same way as a grocery store or pharmacy.
FRIEDEL: So then the other comment that I want to make is that this is new for all of us.
So to equate that we have hours that are longer for bars and restaurants, they've been
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around a lot longer. Alcohol has been around a lot longer than medical or recreational.
It was just recently approved at the state level. So keep that in mind as we go through
this, but I'm wondering if this wouldn't be at some point a time to -- I heard somebody
say, maybe table this and get some input from our Coalition. I think that might be wise.
Now, we gave them a block of money from the settlement, and I think it would be wise
to maybe consider that. I'd be in favor of some hours, but I think maybe another thing
I'm going to mention is maybe we wait until the state comes out with their regulation
and their advice on the delivery, since it's right around the corner anyway. But that's my
two cents on it, so I wouldn't be adverse to extending the hours a little bit. But maybe
we need to table this and get some input from our Coalition, which is a big part of this
town. It's a small town. We've given them money and some direction with that money.
So I think it's important that we get some input from them going forward.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Based on some of his comments, I'd like to
make a motion to table.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I ask, since we had a hearing. Right? Do we continue the hearing?
Can we do that? And then we don't have to do the notice and all that? I guess I
shouldn't have.
ARNSON: Well, the hearing is closed. We can reopen the hearing, and then you can
make a motion to continue to a date certain or indefinitely. But it may be up for
discussion between the applicant and development services about what date would be
best.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Well, so I can reopen it. That way we wouldn't have to worry
about the --
ARNSON: The republishing it and everything. Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So let's do that. So reopen it. So that way we don't have to put
it in the paper again and all that. And then would we want to go to a date or would we
want to just continue it until we get the information we think we want?
SCHUBE: Mayor, if I may? We would be open to a continuance to work with Tammy
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and her group and to answer any other questions that we have from councilmembers. I
would request, maybe, I can make myself available to meet with Tammy in the next two
weeks or four weeks. The applicant, while it is new ,councilmember, and I appreciate
those comments. Again, we have a lot of data that these operations are safe and
secure. We have data that delivery has been safe and secure. And we have every
indication from the Arizona Department of Health Services that they're going to follow --
again, what delivery person has a full background check and must have a facility agent
card with a camera on them and a camera in their vehicle? So you know, respectfully,
request, Mayor, we will again all be respectful to one another and in continuance. But I
would take two weeks. I know I can make myself available to meet with the Coalition
and answer any follow-up questions.
SKILLICORN: So I'll amend my motion to continue. And let's just leave it a little bit open,
like 30 days or something.
TOTH: Second.
MCMAHON: Thank you. But I do think it's going to take longer than 30 days, given the
amount of people that we're going to have to (indiscernible).
SKILLICORN: I am open to another amendment.
MCMAHON: Can we just continue it?
SKILLICORN: Indefinitely is fine.
MCMAHON: Yeah. And then we'll come back. I mean, I'd appreciate it if you guys don't
mind doing that, because I really do think that we need to look at more safeguards in
our ordinance, especially since it's already so strict here.
MAYOR DICKEY: So is that an amendment? Can you amend a motion to continue?
ARNSON: Sure. Yeah, because what you can do is debate as to the time and date of the
continuance. So that's fine. Sounds like Councilman Skillicorn accepted that proposal. I
don't know who second it, but do we have the consent of the person who -- Hannah,
you did? Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So the motion would be to table until a date uncertain?
ARNSON: To continue. I'm sorry. Go ahead.
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SCHUBE: Absolutely, town attorney. Mayor, again, I feel we've been working through
the process. I commit to you that I will take the time to meet with anyone that's
necessary. 30 days, if we could to a date certain, I would respectfully request that. If
we don't feel like we have the information, then we can do another continuance. But I
can make myself --
MAYOR DICKEY: The first meeting in March?
ARNSON: Which is March 5th, I think.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So I guess, do we need another amendment or can we just say,
everybody --
ARNSON: Now, are you okay with that?
MAYOR DICKEY: Is everybody okay with -- Brenda, you're okay with it?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, that's what I was going to say. So I'm okay. I'm okay with that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Then, I believe we have a motion and a second to continue this
to the March 5th meeting. Could we please have a roll call?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Permission to explain my vote? I just want to point out that I believe that
207 was a mistake. Everywhere I see this type of usage, I see open drug uses, I see filth,
I see crime. I believe it was a mistake. And I believe the residents of Arizona have
changed their minds since then. And on that note, I vote yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: I'll just vote. Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: You know, I'm really having problems with this. I'm sorry. And when it
comes back, can we -- it doesn't mean it's automatically going to pass or anything, right?
ARNSON: No. Certainly not. Mayor and councilmember.
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
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MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: It passes.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. So we'll take it up again, and we'll do some work in the
meantime. Thank you. Our next item is approving staff to apply for grants. Is that you,
Rachael?
GOODWIN: It's actually going to be Director Weldy. He's going to lead the charge on
this conversationWELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmembers. I'm here tonight, actually,
representing every individual on the town staff that applies for and seeks grant for the
betterment of this community. It's important to note the benefits that grants have had,
the positive impact that the grants have had on this community. Just in public works
alone, and I'm just going to speak on that, since 2019, the Town of Fountain Hills has
been the recipient of about $4.5 million in grants, with just a few hundred thousand
dollars, about $400,000 in matching funds for those projects. It's important to note that
while we are seeking grants and we get notifications from state, county, and federal
agencies about them, the amount of work necessary to apply for and prepare all of the
documents is time consuming. Oftentimes, we are limited in the window, and more
than one time I've stood right here and asked for forgiveness as opposed to having been
able to ask for permission because of that time frame.
Please note, any time that we receive an email regarding grants, we do a quick cursory
of it, whichever staff member receives it. If we believe that there's a benefit to the
community, our next stop is the town manager to have a discussion about that. That
processes will remain in place. What I'm simply asking permission to do is allow us to
continue to do what we've done for many, many years and decades and apply for
grants. In the event that we are selected for one, we will then return to this elected
body with all of the details, including the grant amount and any associated funding that
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the town will have to contribute to that. I do believe that this will be a benefit not only
to myself, but all the other directors and all the other staff members that apply for
grants to benefit this community. With that, I'll certainly do my best to answer any
questions related to this.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards? Sorry.
Let's have Kim come up and speak, and then if you're the only one, then -- this is a weird
meeting.
WOLBORSKY: Okay. So. Justin, I'm not against this. I just have some questions and
concerns. I may be against it. I'm not sure. So my main concern is that the staff is not
answerable to me. You, as the town council, are answerable to me. So I love the idea of
efficiency, but sometimes efficiency in government is not a good thing. And my concern
is -- here are my concerns, and you can probably answer them all. Can the town receive
a grant and not use it? If that happens, could it affect our likelihood of receiving future
grants from that source or others? They're saying you guys are just applying willy nilly,
and then you're saying you don't want the money, well forget you next time. The other
thing is, what is the actual number and percentage of grants that have such a short time
window that the council doesn't have time to meet in order to approve it? Like, say you
have it all ready to go, you just need their approval to send it. What are your examples
of that? How much money was missed? How much pain was involved? But I have to
say, as a citizen, I don't care about the pain as much as about the answerability.
And then the other thing is, I haven't talked about this before, and I've meant to.
Technical debt, I worked as a business analyst, and my job was to write programs that
would -- or work with other people to write programs to make users' jobs easier. And
that was great. And we just love to do that. And you know, our IT department would
come back to us and say, you're creating technical debt here. You wrote these things,
it's making these people's lives easier now, but we have to support them for all the
years in the future. And you know, one of the things about getting money for stuff is it's
great if it's maintenance, but if it's new stuff, we really need to think about how much is
it going to cost us to take care of this going forward? Can the town really afford it? And
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I think, I just think that's something that the council is more likely to do than the staff. I
don't know why, but I do. I trust you guys. All right. That's all I got. Thanks.
MAYOR DICKEY: You have more?
MENDENHALL: No, that's all we had for this item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Gerry?
FRIEDEL: I just want to say that I think it's a valuable service to apply for grants,
especially because it looks like the amount that we contribute is about ten percent of
what you've actually been approved for. So I think it's a win -win for the town. And the
time to do it is probably as valuable to go out and get those. So I'm all in favor of this.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Thank you, Director Weldy, for all you do. Thank
you for all the grants that you've previously applied for that we're enjoying the benefits
of today. Would it be beneficial to our town to have a professional grant writer that
could free up the department heads to do more of what they do and their respective
jobs, and less time grant writing?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmember. It would certainly benefit the public works
department, but I cannot speak on behalf of the other directors. I would feel more
comfortable if the town manager would engage in that type of dialogue with the mayor
and council.
GOODWIN: I'd be happy to. Thanks. It's a bit of a plus and minus to be honest. An
effective grant writer is always an asset. That being said, often our grants are centered
around data and examples and things, and narrative, quite frankly. And I can speak
from example where we've had several folks volunteer to help us and want to help us
with the narrative, that they just don't live and breathe to the same extent that staff
does. So it's very difficult sometimes to translate that. I know in speaking in some of
the technical grants that public works goes after, there's a lot of data that has to be
pulled, whether it's through finance, whether it's through our different software
systems, that is a little bit hard to track down. So I don't know if it would make life
easier or not, to be honest. When they said I need this information, go find me this
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information, that we're going to end up having to staff is probably going to have to dig
out anyway. That being said, we do have a number of volunteers in our community who
have offered to help us with grants, and we've taken them up on that opportunity as
well.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank, thank you for that. I just think that if we did like a 1099
independent contractor, paid them on an incentive basis based on how many grants
they brought in that would clear up our town staff to do, again what they should be
doing. Because I know multitasking is always fun, but it takes a lot of work to put them
together. It takes a lot of work to follow through. And again, with all the things going
on in Fountain Hills, it just seems like something to consider. And in the Fountain Hills
Times, May 17th, 2022, I did a letter to the editor proposing this very same thing. So if
anybody wants to look it up, I'm on record. I just think it'd be a wonderful idea to get a
professional grant writer.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, one of the concerns I have, and this is something that I've
dealt with in local government before, is that we'll apply for a grant and they'll offer us a
grant and they'll give us, let's say, $400,000 in funding. And we go ahead and do their
project. And they have some hooks, they have some requirements in there that add to
the cost of the project that might cost us $350,000 more in construction do it. So the
grant was almost a wash, right? And we had the additional headache of hoops to jump
through, reporting, staff time. In the end, we may not have been ahead. So that's a
concern that I have. I also want to make a point that we've had some fabulous grants. I
mean, I think of like the sidewalk fill and stuff like that. There was no -- having us
approve it wasn't a bad thing. We still got the grants. We still have great upkeep. We
had some great things that helped our bottom line with council approval instead of,
basically, cutting council out. So since the manager's name was used in debate and
public comment, I'm curious of what your thoughts are in rebuttal to the public
comment about, maybe, this still should come before the council?
GOODWIN: I appreciate that opportunity, actually. Thank you. And I think this is a
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really dynamic conversation for this body because originally grants weren't brought
before here. And there was a concern that we were over committing, that maybe we
didn't have the resources to match whatever it was we were going after or that there
were these sort of caveats built in that we weren't necessarily catching. And that's why
we brought them as a permission -based policy up to now. We bring them forward, we
say we'd like to apply, these are the stipulations, this is what we'd like to do. And
generally speaking, council gives the authority to say please go ahead and do so. And
generally when we have good news, we bring it back and say, hey, guess what? We got
it. Here's what we got, here's what we said, and a reminder of what happened. But it
does happen where we don't get them. Unfortunately, that's just the way of the world.
We don't always get every grant we go after. So it kind of leaves it hanging a little bit so
that council doesn't necessarily know that there's the closure in that process that says,
hey, yeah, we applied. We didn't get it. Bummer.
But sometimes what we're finding and I'm going to speak for Justin and I want to
appreciate Kim's comments. Thank you. Is that when we do apply for grants, it's not on
a sort of shotgun approach. We don't just throw out everything and see what we get. It
is a very thoughtful process in that we understand there's a work, there's a trade-off.
We've got to do the work to put it out there to see if we can get it. So we're not going
to go after grants that are problematic, or that we run the risk of returning. We have
had one instance that I know of where we had to say we applied for a grant and we had
to say no. And you know what? It is a terrible situation when you have to do that, when
you have to give something back. Thankfully it wasn't our fault, so to speak. It was a
change in circumstances, and they certainly understood that. But we never want to get
in a position where we have to say, hey, you know what? We thought it was a great
idea. We changed our mind. To that end, staff is pretty skilled at vetting them, at
making sure that if we're going to put our name on there and go after a grant, we feel
successful in that we can support the elements, whether it be financial or whether it be
other stipulations within those requirements.
That being said, it doesn't cut council out. The idea would be if we apply for a grant and
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we receive it, it would need to come back before this body for final approval and
direction. So there is no point -- at no point would we proceed without any type of
discussion at this level. So I just want to make that clear.
To Justin's point and to the point of the staff, we do have a number of grants that come
due. Generally, they happen to come out oftentimes at the end of a fiscal year because
there's leftover funding and sometimes it means we're putting -- we're slamming a grant
together at the end of June, beginning of July to take advantage of that. And that is
when our council break is. So that tends to be some of that. Not always. And
sometimes we just aren't aware of them and they come across our desk with a few
weeks' notice and it's not enough time to be before council. So that is some of the
reality of why this ask is before you tonight. I hope that answers your questions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: I'd just like to make a motion to approve.
TOTH: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Yes. Clarification, please. What you're doing is you're asking for us that
when you apply for grants, you can go ahead and apply for them to save the time. And
like Rachael said, apply for them in a timely manner so that you can get them. And then
when you get them for the project, you always come back before council to okay the
project, et cetera. So basically this is another part of your ongoing responsibilities. You
just want to be able to do them in a timely manner. Correct?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, that is correct.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
WELDY: And with all due respect to the town manager, she runs a tight ship and we
have to have everything in agenda quick, not less than two weeks prior. And preparing
the documents, and sometimes they can be time consuming -- seven or eight hours for a
grant per staff member involved in it, and then trying to get that on two weeks in
advance, if there's only a three-week window, oftentimes it's challenging, so we're just
asking for a little leeway.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I think he answered your question, right? So know that we
can turn them down if we have to, but we don't do a million of them. Yeah, but we
don't do that a lot, obviously. So we have a motion and a second. Could I get a roll call,
please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. Thanks, Justin.
WELDY: You're welcome. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Next item is kind of similar. Rachael are you taking this one?
GOODWIN: Actually, I'm going to pass this one to our town clerk. This is a conversation
that came up through staff. And she has been leading us through this process and
understanding what our options are. So with that, I'll turn it over to Linda.
MENDENHALL: All right. Good evening, Mayor and town council, staff, and Fountain
Hills residents who stayed for my presentation. I appreciate the opportunity to address
you tonight about a proposal that we believe will make our approval process more
efficient. We're asking for your support to amend the town code regarding special
event liquor license. We want to modify the current process so that the town clerk will
have the designated authority to evaluate and approve these license without formal
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council approval. House Bill 2334 was signed by the governor in 2018, which provides
the town council with the ability to assign a designee to evaluate and approve special
event liquor licenses. This proposed amendment will not only simplify the procedural
aspects, but also alleviate some of the red tape associated with obtaining a
recommendation for approval. Currently, the process to place an item on the agenda
involves several steps, from coordinating with the clerk for agenda placement, to
entering staff reports and navigating the approval process. We propose that by
adopting the legislative update, we can eliminate unnecessary steps, making the process
more efficient and aligned with the evolving norms. I conducted a quick poll through
the clerk's Listsery and received comments from 20 municipalities. Of those, 20, 19
have designated someone, typically the clerk, to provide this approval. I do have a slide
if someone could come down and it says, "Special Event Liquor License". Just so you can
see the communities that responded to my question. I know that there's more out
there. They just haven't responded.
WELDY: Is it on video?
MENDENHALL: Yes. Right there. "Special Event Liquor License" at the top. Thank you.
Okay. So now during the calendar year of 2023, a total of 21 special event liquor license
applications were on the agenda for approval by town council. Delegating the approval
for this license to the clerk will eliminate the need for 21 licenses to be brought forward
for council approval. Streamlining the special event process will allow for more timely
approval for our applicants. If this requirement was in place in December, the need for
a special town council meeting would not have needed to occur. But the process would
have been and what it would be today if it's approved, the application would be
received by our community services staff, they will review and ensure that it meets the
requirements outlined in state statute, that the application is complete, any necessary
diagrams are attached and that the $25 application fee is paid. Once they have
concluded that they have everything they need, they will submit the application to me
for approval. In conclusion, our request tonight is to enhance the operational efficiency
of this process by removing the requirement for the special event liquor license to
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undergo council approval. We are confident that this amendment will not only simplify
our procedures, but also align our practices with the progressive legislative changes
made in 2018. Staff recommends that the mayor and town council adopt ordinance
2404, providing the town clerk with a designated authority to evaluate and approve
special event liquor licenses. This concludes my presentation. I'll entertain any
questions the council may have.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any cards on this?
MENDENHALL: No, but we do have seven people who provided written statements that
they're for this item. And then we had one comment card in person from Peggy Yeargin
that she supports. So ten people support and approve of this change.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Thank you for your presentation, your
thoughtful presentation. But since you brought it up, the applicant during the Christmas
break did file for a late temporary liquor license. And you said if we had this new
process in place, we would have had to call a town council meeting together over our
Christmas break. So how would that have been handled?
MENDENHALL: So what would happen is, like Tammy, she presented the application to
Ryan in community services. He reviewed that application and would ensure that they
met all the criteria, and then they would just bring it over to me and I'd sign it. And it's
given back to the applicant, and then they go to the Department of Liquor for the actual
license.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. So then I guess we wouldn't have any deadlines then for these
temporary liquor licenses because that one was filed late. And if they're all filed late or
maybe a day or two behind, it seems like they're just all going to get approved without
any regard to our town code that specifies what date they have to be filed by.
MENDENHALL: No, they still have to comply with the Department of Liquor's guidelines.
They can't just show up today and get one tomorrow. They may get an approval, but
they're not going to get a liquor license. And plus Ryan and maybe Kevin can speak to
this. He gives them a very strict deadline.
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KALIVIANAKIS: Although I can appreciate that, it's still -- the reason that we were called
into council was because there was a deadline that was not honored. And it disturbs me
that if we do it this way, then we just approved it anyway, because there's other
processes that are going to be observed that are going to be the watchdogs. And the
one that we didn't do, which was have a timely application get turned in.
SNIPES: Just to speak to this a little bit. One thing as far as speeding up this process is it
could make our window tighter to where that you could get a liquor license from us
quicker. Which would enable you to go to the state and actually get your liquor license
easier versus having to get it on a council agenda. The other thing that this could do is,
is once we approve of a liquor license, then the town clerk could send out to all of you
so you would all know that a liquor license has been approved so that you would still be
in the loop of knowing what was going on in the town.
KALIVIANAKIS: Oh, I can appreciate that. I don't think we're drilling down on my
concern, which was our ordinance has time restrictions and deadlines, and they're not
going to be observed. And I think that's problematic. And I'll just go back to the
Fountain Hills Roasters, when the applicant put in an application one day late because of
a personal crisis and emergency by his manager. And this council said that there are no
exceptions to late filings. So this is the second time we've come back since Fountain
Hills Roasters and said there are exceptions to late filings, except for the one that I put
on the agenda. That one was a bridge too far. I don't understand it. And so I'm sorry,
I'm not with you on this one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: If I remember correctly, it wasn't necessarily that they were late, it was
that they didn't realize we were having one meeting in December or we shifted dates or
something. I didn't pull up the calendar to remind myself. But if I remember correctly,
that -- so that's why it appears that they were late, but they thought they were in time
for a meeting that got canceled or postponed or something, right?
KALIVIANAKIS: I don't think the state of mind of the applicant is relevant here. Aaron,
would the state of mind of the applicant be relevant to a late filing?
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ARNSON: Well, no. Late is late, right? I mean, Mayor and council, to your point, late is
late. But again, I do think the distinguishing factor, as -- I don't know who exactly just
said it, but the distinguishing factor is, I think the fact that there was supposed to be a
meeting where these would be approved, and we ended up not having that meeting, is
that --
MENDENHALL: Right.
ARNSON: Right. Okay.
MENDENHALL: It was the January 3rd meeting. And so it's not -- I can understand and
appreciate thinking that it's late, but technically the event was not until the 12th. So
yes, they were probably behind schedule in submitting.
KALIVIANAKIS: So the policy going forward is if applicants think they're on time, they
are deemed to be on time. Is that the policy we're establishing?
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I ask a question? How does this change the timeliness of this? It's
just making it so it doesn't come to a council meeting.
MENDENHALL: Right?
MAYOR DICKEY: You still have to follow our rules. Correct?
SNIPES: Filing time is still going to be the same, correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
MENDENHALL: And I believe Ryan said that he expects 30 days or I don't recall what
he -- his timeline --
SNIPES: I don't know (indiscernible), exact number of days is.
GOODWIN: If I can chime in, I'll be happy to clarify a little bit. Generally speaking, the
state Liquor Board requires 30 days in order to issue -- do they amend that? Yes. Can
that be faster? Yes. But their general guideline is 30 days. We advise any applicant to
submit an alcohol application very far in advance if they know they want that as part of
their event. However, at a minimum we suggest six weeks. So that there's two weeks
to hit the council date and then they have thirty days to get it down to the Department
of Liquor. That being said, six weeks, if you do the math, they can still come in and they
could do something potentially the same day. They could bring it in, if it's reviewed,
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everyone's there, it's given the okay. And they could walk out with it same day.
Therefore they would still have time to get down to the liquor board. That being said,
we would still encourage 30 days. Is there anything that requires it? No, we don't have
that in our requirements right now. That could be built in as part of the event
application process, but again, all we are doing as a body is saying, yes, we're okay if the
liquor board says it's okay with them. That being said, I have seen them approve things
in seven days. I've seen them approve it in 14 days, and I have seen them tell someone
too bad we're not approving it; we don't have enough time to do it. So it's a gamble
that, to say the least, if they don't give themselves at least 30 days. I hope that
answers --
KALIVIANAKIS: And then my last question and then I'll let it to another member is the
way we do it now on the consent agenda, it's publicly noticed. It's in our agenda packet.
And so the town knows who's applying for a special liquor license. And then we vote on
it after we review the applicant to see if there's any past indiscretions, violations. I
know Peggy has pointed it out before that, you know, certain candidates for temporary
liquor license or permanent ones have a checkered past that we want to avoid giving
them liquor licenses towards. So if we do it this way, the new way, would we still have
the public process or would it be transparent to the citizens of Fountain Hills, or would it
be more secretive and more administrative?
SNIPES: Yeah, it would be an administrative --
MENDENHALL: Right. Administrative?
SNIPES: -- action.
MENDENHALL: Yes. It's an administrative action.
KALIVIANAKIS: So no transparency?
MAYOR DICKEY: Transparency to give a liquor license? I mean, I guess I'm really getting
confused here. So what we're doing is saying that the same staff that brings it in front
of us for approval, because you've vetted it, nothing is going to stop you from knowing if
somebody is a bad actor or whatever. You're still going to do that same thing, and then
it goes to the state.
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SNIPES: Literally.
MAYOR DICKEY: So that's what we're doing, right?
MENDENHALL: Right. We don't issue the liquor license --
KALIVIANAKIS: We just --
MENDENHALL: -- we just provide a recommendation of approval or denial.
MCMAHON: Also.
SNIPES: It's still up to the state to make that decision.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. I just like a public process for when people apply that I don't think
we're going to have here.
MCMAHON: Also you're going to do your due diligence, right? And it's on the consent
agenda. I don't know that I -- I can recall any time we haven't approved --
SNIPES: I'm not aware of.
MCMAHON: -- a liquor license on the consent agenda.
SNIPES: Correct.
MCMAHON: Right. I don't think this is purposely changing it to be secretive or anything
like that. Although, I appreciate your concerns, but I just don't think that there's
anything nefarious or secret about it. I think it's a expedited administrative service. And
we and I don't mean to belittle what the council does and look at them and review
them, et cetera, I don't even know if all of us even read them. But I just think it would
be a -- it's administerial process. You're still going to have to have the state approve the
license. Thank you.
SNIPES: I think that the big thing here is that what we're trying to do is make it better
for our residents and our business owners that are doing these temporary liquor
licenses so that they cannot have to jump through so many hoops to get the same
result. I think that we're still going to be doing the same review, that we always do the
same recommendations. We always do, and the state's still going to have to do their
review and approval prior to them getting their liquor license from the state. This just
makes it so it's not as hard on the applicants to come in and get it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice mayor?
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GRZYBOWSKI: If there is concern for public notice or transparency, is there a way -- and
this is just being creative. So I have no idea if I'm talking legal stuff or not. Is there a
way to -- like, on our agenda, it's got the date and that it's council or whatever the
commission is and the documentation where you can click and follow through. Is there
a way for us to give Linda the approval? Linda does what she does, and it shows up on
the agenda that she has approved it. And that way people can still follow through and
see the paperwork for themselves if they choose to do so. Did that make any sense? In
my head, it made a lot.
ARNSON: In other words after an administrative approval process, can we like put them
in the agenda or post them online?
GRZYBOWSKI: Right?
ARNSON: Is that the --
GRZYBOWSKI: Right. Yeah. Is there a way we can post it online? And that way, if the
general public wants to know what has been approved and what the paperwork said,
they can actually see it for themselves.
ARNSON: Can you post them online?
MENDENHALL: Sure. I can't imagine why we would do that, but I guess if people feel
that we're trying to be secretive, I wouldn't want people to think that. I'm just thinking
that we have the same people apply every year. I trust that they know what they're
doing.
KALIVIANAKIS: Ms. Mayor --
MCMAHON: It's complicating this --
MENDENHALL: Yeah. Yes. You're going to cause a little more work. It's the same work
that we did before. So we were trying not to do that, but --
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I do like the idea of posting it. It could be the
packet or whatever, but so what I was going to do is offer a motion to approve, but with
the condition that it's posted either in the packet or something. That staff's okay with.
KALIVIANAKIS: And if I may?
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MCMAHON: Isn't that defeating? Isn't that defeating the purpose of what we're trying
to accomplish here and what the request is by staff? Is so that we don't have to go
through that? So no --
MENDENHALL: For me, it just added more work for me.
MCMAHON: Yeah.
MENDENHALL: So for me, just let it go the way it was. I mean, I already have enough
work as it is. I don't need to add on something that I didn't --
MCMAHON: I'd like to amend that motion to --
MAYOR DICKEY: Nobody's seconded it yet.
KALIVIANAKIS: And if I may?
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just again, just to express my concerns, maybe
more clearly. I'm just kind of in the camp of if it's not broke, don't fix it. It's been
working. It works well. My philosophy towards government is I like it when things go
through the legislature and it goes before the people's body. We actually talked about
that today, earlier about it going before us and not somebody else. If you look at the
administrative state throughout our country, this is exactly what happens. And I know
this is a small step, but it's usurping a power that we currently hold and that we
currently vote on, on a consent agenda. And it's delegating that authority to the
administrative state. I would call it administrative creep. And I'll be the sole no here.
But just on principle, I'm not going to be responsible to be in the legislature and assign
my duties to other people that are not held publicly accountable.
MCMAHON: I'd like to make a motion to adopt ordinance 2404 as written. Thank you.
SKILLICORN: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Toth, I saw your --
TOTH: I changed my mind. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's (indiscernible) works.
TOTH: Yeah, the button still works.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We have a motion and a second on the floor for ordinance
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as written. Can I get a roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: No.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you very much. Thanks, Linda.
MENDENHALL: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: Our next item is talk about pavement management, planning, and
funding. You probably all looked at the agenda item, and you know there's a lot of stuff
there. But we're trying to limit a little bit what we're trying to do here tonight because
this will be a agenda item on our retreat at the end of the month. So we're not
necessarily doing this deep dive. We're just trying to set some overall ideas, things for
you to think about before we kind of get into the more particulars of it. Justin.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmembers, thank you. And as we were having the
discussion here and I was listening to it regarding the liquor license, of which I actually
sit on the committee that reviews those. I realize that my agenda item wasn't entirely
accurate. So the first thing we're going to do tonight is we're going to talk about our
most recent investment. This is an update to the funding related to payment that
council had approved for this fiscal year and the parts that we've done.
On this first slide here, the areas that you see in orange we were able to complete in
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November and December. We do have some minor utility adjustments, but we'll do all
of those later on when we do the remainder of it. This area right here that's shown in
yellow, we just completed this a couple of weeks ago. I want to stop on this slide for
just a minute. I think it's important to note, and this is good news not only for this
community as a whole, but the town manager and I are delighted to share it as well. As
part of our due diligence and exploration in regards to pre -incorporation roads that
were platted prior to the town but built after incorporation, there's a little misnomer
there, and a little disconnect. These roads were platted in the county, but most of them
built after. For clarification on that, we did not have to take out two feet of material in
this area and replace all of that material, which is very costly. Instead, what we did was
we took the two inches of asphalt off, plus one inch of select base course and replaced it
with three inches of asphalt. There is a substantial savings to the town, the total dollar
amount for the savings here, and to a lesser extent, the orange area on this slide is not
yet known. I'm not going to provide a number tonight because that is the only number
that will be remembered. We will bring you that factual number later on.
This right here is going to be starting in the later part of February and is scheduled to be
completed in March. I think it's important to note this is an exceptionally long
residential street. It's going to have some improvement pain related to it. The good
news is we also went out and did some geotechnical work ourselves and discovered that
this also doesn't require total reconstruction and there will be a substantial savings
related to this.
Lastly, Panorama shown here in green. This is going to be the last thing we do with the
federal monies and our funding for our general pavement maintenance this year. This
one here is going to be a little bit challenging. In the next few weeks the town engineer
and I, along with the street superintendent, will be out there having holes dug for us so
we can determine what the base is and determine what type of treatment will take
place at that. We anticipate for some of this, based on the estimates, we will have an
additional savings here. With that said, the unspent monies from this year will remain in
the street fund. That does not become immediately available next fiscal year because
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we did not request it as part of our budget, because the audit for that would not have
been done. However, it does not get spent on anything else. It remains there. It will be
added to our budget, those unspent funds, year after next which we also anticipate,
based on our history, that we will have some savings there. The reason I'm doing a little
bit of simplified math is next year, we intend to spend the remainder of the federal
funding that we utilized for paving, and then the following year there will be a little
funding left over, amount unknown today, but we'll know some of that in the future.
And then that will be added to our typical, on average, $2.1 million. So we're looking at
about two more years where we can really address some of the needs of this
community. After that, we're going to be asking some questions.
Which leads us into this next little portion right here. Feel free during this time to stop
me if you have any questions. Basically, it's just a little refresher on our pavement
management program and our best pavement management practices based on our
location, our knowledge, and industry standards. Is the first slide.
This is a life cycle that is tailored to the Town of Fountain Hills based on its geography,
topography, and the historically drier conditions in which the town exists. As a
reminder, these are investments that this elected body and other elected bodies have
spent. This is from 2010 to '16. Some pretty large numbers there. This is 2017 to '24.
It's important to note that this includes the federal funding. That's that $4.2 million
transfer.
There was a question at the last time we presented in regards to timelines related --
should the mayor and council elect to begin having discussions related to bonding? I
put this slide in there as just a reminder of the time frames. For the record, there was a
little note on the top that said from the town clerk's office because she did in fact
provide this information. With that, we've done our best to provide you over the last
several years and including the last three presentations not only staff reports, but
professional opinions. And some of those professional opinions are paid for through a
Roadway Asset Services. And the survey they did and the report, the summary that they
provided to us, we also had an incredible group of volunteers taking all of that same
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data and all of the information that they had, and also bringing forth a proposal. There's
a difference in the funding levels on those two proposals. The Roadway Asset Services is
based on optimization, and prioritization. What that means is the dollar amount that
we know we're going to have for that budget is put into a computer software system
without anything, except for the roads that meet our current adopted standard of an
average of 70. That doesn't mean everything's 70, but the stuff that's below 70. So
maybe into a 65 or so is pushed to the side because it's not really a priority right now
because we're in pretty good shape. But this addresses some of those lower PCIs, which
is the Pavement Condition index.
The second one from the volunteers, basically, does the same thing with a little bit
different approach and some different numbers. There's a there's a pretty substantial
change in there. Keep in mind that Roadway Asset Services is using our unit prices,
slightly reduced, but not as low as our invoice prices. And let me clarify that. We
entered into an agreement with our paving contractor based on a contract that the City
of Scottsdale and/or Chandler approved. In the last ten years, we have not paid that
unit price. We have paid substantially less. However, I'm uncomfortable using any
money below that simply because the president of that company that has extended that
unit pricing reduction to us at any given time could be unemployed and there's no
guarantee. So I'm putting that out there.
MAYOR DICKEY: Rachael?
GOODWIN: And director, you mentioned PCI, the PCI ratings.
WELDY: Yes.
GOODWIN: And one of the -- actually the motion for tonight, the suggested action for
the evening is actually to reinstitute the use of PCI as opposed to the letter grade
system. Is that something you could touch on for us?
WELDY: Absolutely. As part of the current pavement management program we're
using, to simplify things, it was recommended that the council adopt a letter grade that
references a PCI. So while we don't have any A -plus roads per se in our adoption, we do
have the letter grades that represent the PCI levels. And there are three different
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criterias there for the PCIs. Primarily are the arterials, which would be a B, if you would,
and that's in really good shape. And then the collectors which would be a B-minus or a
C-plus, again relatively good condition. And then lastly which are our local streets,
which is our lowest letter grade and incidentally our biggest backlog and our lowest PCI.
So a strong recommendation is that we go back to the industry standard and eliminate
the letter grade and just go back to Pavement Condition Index, which is the PCI. And it's
less challenging for someone like myself or one of the volunteers to explain how one is
broken down into the other.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, I appreciate that. I wanted to take the opportunity to
mention that I'm -- a member of the citizens committee is here, Jerry Butler to answer
questions. I have a couple of things I'd like to say to set the tone, or at least to get like,
we were talking about getting some discussions or thoughts in your mind before we
actually go, oh, we do. Okay. Well, I'm going to go ahead anyway. First of all, when we
talk about PCI, I think I'm all for getting away from the letter grades and going to what
everybody agrees is a good way to rate the streets. I think one of the things I want to
make clear at least, and you've confirmed it by talking about the fact that some of the
streets we thought were going to be a certain amount and we were having some
substantial savings, and since we still have the CARES money left that we're not -- I know
we saw the dates there, but we're not looking at, I don't believe, any kind of bond or
any kind of revenue any time before FY November. Sorry, '25. Because this is the -- sort
of the gift I guess we got by these federal monies. It bought us this time to be able to
substantially add millions of dollars every year. But it doesn't change the overall end
how we get out from under with the roads that are on that tipping point as we've talked
about before. So we have to -- do talk about that. Definitely go to the PCI. The other
thing that was one of the differences between the RAS and the committee was the --
how do you use PCI? So if you use an average and you had mentioned how the arterials,
right? The biggest ones are in pretty good shape. So they tend to skew the numbers.
So your average may look better because Shea's in great shape. You know, you can just
figure that out in your brain. So what they had decided might be a good approach
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would be to say, well, should every street at least be a 65 or 70? Every street, not the
average, because the average can kind of, like I say, skew the judgment of how well
we're doing. You can tell the people at large, hey, we're a 70, we're doing great. And
then -- but their street's a mess. So how do we want to address that? It will be on, like I
say, it will be on the retreat agenda. We're going to look at -- again, you're going to
bring to us what the plans will be for the future and which streets. And having maps
and being really clear on what we're trying to do and why, and where that will be and
where the financing will come to.
One of the other conversations that we've had over since we had the CARES money, it
was like a extra five million. Well, we can't get that much out the door. Well, if we do
end up with eight million or so a year or whatever we think, if we go with the 40 million
or we go with the 64 million, we can spend it because you had mentioned we could go
out for -- something could be a different project. So we have the five million. But so
we're not tied to that number because we need more than that in order to get that
backlog where it needs to be.
One more thing is just about reclassifying the streets. I don't know if you remember
when we changed the zip code -- the zip code. This is the second time we did that. The
speed limit on El Pueblo, and we talked about how it was looked at as the same as
maybe like King Street, but it didn't have the same speed limit. So we wanted to kind of
general -- make them align with each other. So I think regardless of what we do, that
might be a good exercise for us to see if these streets -- and I know that there are
certain rules about how they're classified, but there still could be some flexibility in that
to say, well, there's Golden Eagle -- I know we already talked about this, and it seems
like it would be more of an arterial, but it's a dead end. But is there still a way to look at
it that it makes sense to us and the people that live here, so that we know what's a good
strategy for each different street and why? So I just wanted to make sure I got that out.
And I know we have a speaker card. So go ahead.
MENDENHALL: Okay. We do. We have two speaker cards. First is Barry Wolborsky,
and on deck is Jerry Butler.
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WOLBORSKY: I'm Barry Wolborsky, and I'm a resident of Fountain Hills. At the last
council meeting, I stated that the Fountain Hills homeowners had no advocate on the
town council. However, three councilmembers did seem to support the homeowners at
the last meeting and I thank you for that. Now the council is considering a bond issue
for somewhere between 40 and $64 million. Bond issues are due to fiscal
irresponsibility and are caused by our leaders not having funded reserves for the
infrastructure repair and replacement. We all know how the town's residents love to
support these bond issues, and we know that now is the worst time for a bond issue due
to current interest rates. We also know that 40 to 64 million is a fairly large gap, and
that these numbers have changed due to the almost $10 million that the town has spent
on the roads in the last two years since those numbers came up. But why worry about
details when it's so much fun to spend other people's money? If this bond issue works,
then the bond issue for the lake liner will work too. And when the downtown area
traffic study says we need a parking structure, that would be another bond issue. And
when the property values drop due to burdensome taxes and the town's revenues drop
because of that, the council can just do more bond issues to fund current operations.
But the roads won't be a problem anymore because there won't be many people left
here to use them. Council elections are this year, and maybe the Fountain Hills
homeowners will have some additional advocates on the new council.
BUTLER: Mayor, council. Thank you for having us on the agenda. My name is Jerry
Butler, and as the mayor said, I am a member of the citizens advisory council or
committee that looked into this. That committee brought 250 years of experience to
the project, to the challenge that this council gave us. We were supposed to be able to
do this in six months. We started in September of '21, and here we are tonight talking
about it really for the first time. And I understand now it's going to go to the retreat and
congratulations. But before I go into too much more, I'd like to reflect backward. I've
been here for 25 years. I'm a retired civil engineer. And in that 25 years that I've lived
in this town, many of our streets have doubled in age. They're now 50 years old. When
I moved here, the town was relying on the highway user revenue funds that came from
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the state. And that was primarily to maintain the streets that we have in Fountain Hills.
But as the streets aged, it took more than maintenance. It took repairs. It took the
things that Justin and his staff are doing today. But we didn't have the money. So the
speaker before me said, how did we fall behind? Well, we didn't have the money. And
where does this money come from? It comes from highway users. Or it comes from the
general public on how they want to maintain and sustain their community. The citizens
advisory committee looked at three possible sources of revenue. A primary property
tax, which has been tried before and failed. You could raise sales taxes, which this
council can do all on their own without any support from the community. But that's not
going to work. So historically, communities, when they needed more money to fix their
investments, they relied on bonds. And that's what the citizens advisory committee has
kind of moved into, is to say, well, then bonds are probably the best solution. How did
we come up with 40 million? It's very detailed in the report and I'm not going to go into
it. How did RAS come up with their 64 million? It's in their report and I'm not going to
go into it, but we both used the same prices. The same unit costs that were given to
RAS the citizens committee used. The difference is the citizens committee based the
repairs on PCI numbers alone, without regard for the streets that were constructed prior
to incorporation. I'm sorry. Okay. I'll try --
CLERK'S NOTE: Council Member Brenda J. Kalivianakis left the dais at 8:50 pm. And
returned at 8:52 p.m.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible) presentation.
BUTLER: No. The other speaker only had his three minutes. And I will end right now.
But thank you very, very much. I wanted this to be a positive comment, not some
negatives that I've heard all evening. So thank you, thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Sure.
FRIEDEL: Justin, I don't know if you can answer this tonight or not, but I'm wondering
what's the total amount of pre -incorporated roads that need to be repaired in this
town? And then if you can't answer this, you can get me the information. Then I want
to know how that's broken up into residential, arterial, and collectors. If you can get me
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that information at some point, I'd appreciate it.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmember. So about 60 percent of the total inventory is
platted in Maricopa County. That's pre -incorporation. Of that percentage, about
another 10 to 12 percent is nonlocal. So the majority of the town's roads are local or
residential.
MAYOR DICKEY: And as he started out tonight, though, by saying, if we go strictly by a
date, that's we're finding that those roads, even though they're old, didn't need as much
as we thought. So that's I think, part of that is the crux of why the difference between
the 40 and the 64, instead of looking at something that was from 1989, before 1999,
saying, okay, they all are going to need this kind of treatment. And also there's other
things like paving just where the driving is. I mean, it just we have to be as practical as
we can be. So are we going to pave all the way to the ends? Are we going to try to be
creative in a way to save? So it's not the 64 million, but. Yeah.
WELDY: In reference to that. And if I may, Madam Mayor, let's just pick King Street.
King Street is 60 feet wide. When it was platted and designed, it was intended to have
two lanes in each direction with a center two-way left turn lane that was based on a
build out population of 70,000. I'm not sure that the Town of Fountain Hills is going to
reach 70,000, but I'm also not in a position to say it's not. With that said, other
municipal governments with limited funding in regards to those unnecessarily wide
roads, they would just concentrate on the travel lanes and the two-way left turn lane.
So that's basically a 12-foot, 12-foot, 12-foot do whatever is necessary to bring that up
to your current subdivision standards. For the remainder, what we'll refer to as the bike
lane and/or the shoulder or parking lane, an alternative treatment. There are several.
The least expensive one is going to be to crack fill it and use a preservative seal. That's
basically rejuvenates the asphalt and fills the cracks. The next one is to crack fill it and
use a type 2 polymer. So that is an actual coating that has full fractured aggregate or
small rocks in it, angular rocks. The next one, which is we refer to it as an edge mill.
And let me explain that. We come in with a grinder and grind down right next to the
curb, and then taper that grind towards the travel lane and put down a chip seal with a
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cape. As a reference, the council approved a chip seal with a cape on Chama, as a pilot
program. We have learned an incredible amount of valuable lessons there. We had an
opportunity, and when I say we, collectively the town staff. Part of Chama was platted
pre -incorporation, but built after incorporation to the subdivision standards, and part of
it was not. So the second part of it was in relatively rough condition. We did not apply a
lot of treatment to that. We simply coated it and put a cape on it. For the first few days
it looked amazing, looked like a brand new road until you got a little bit closer and it was
a little wobbly. As time has gone on, it has held out incredibly well. However, those
little voids and what we refer to as gatoring, that's a bunch, hundreds and thousands of
pieces of asphalt, four or five inches in diameter. They're starting to reveal themselves,
however, on the newer portion that was built post -incorporation, I think some crack
filling would have really made a big difference in that. And that one, in regards to
maintenance, is probably moved out beyond the nine- or ten-year mark because that
treatment is going to work really, really well.
Another example is El Lago, between Fountain Hills Boulevard and Palisades. Again, we
came before the council, we asked for permission for an alternative to the most
expensive, which is total reconstruction and repaving. In that one our approach was, we
had several areas in the travel lanes that were in bad condition. We milled those out,
replaced them. We had some of the intersections where you have a lot of turning
movement from commercial vehicles, be that refuse or possibly the school or materials
being delivered for a new home that's being constructed. In those intersections, you
have some other issues that have to be addressed. We did so; we also crack filled it and
then we added a type 2 polymer. And the end result is El Lago still looks really, really
good. Are we having some minor issues with it? Absolutely. We refer to it as reflective
cracking. That's when the existing cracking starts to show through your new treatment.
Not uncommon.
So there are alternatives it still allows for the mayor and council to do the best they can
with the funding they have, while they're trying to plan for the future in regards to some
of the treatments that I just described. The bottom line is, it's one of the largest, if not
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the largest asset that belongs to this community, and it simply has not had funding for
the longest time that was adequate enough to keep up with the maintenance. Prior to
coming to this elected body, I had done an incredible amount of reading, and one of the
primary reasons for incorporation was roads.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director, would you mind going back to the
display? Excuse me? There was a Excel -- yeah, the '17 to '24. And I was going to ask
the '24 here, this number here, I know we don't have numbers for what we've been
working on this year, and I was going to ask when we're going to have the numbers for
this year that -- the road work that we've done this year, the total amounts. Do you
have an estimate when we're going to have that number?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmember, I'll return to the mayor and council, probably
in the last meeting in May or early meeting in June. By that time we would have
completed everything that was on the list, and any minor issues related to that would
be resolved in final invoicing completed.
SKILLICORN: Okay. And this is a good chart to take a look at. Another question I have
is, if we go ahead with this recommended motion of going to PCI, how does that help us
and help you, help the residents and prioritize the streets that are more in need? Could
you go through that -- please explain that a little more for us?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmember, so what we're doing is we're simplifying it.
Anyone in this audience or watching on TV or listening and they're curious, whenever
they would go and look to see what their road may or may not be through a letter
grade, it's going to come up zero. The only thing you're going to get when you use any
one of your search engines is Town of Fountain Hills adopts letter grade with an
explanation from myself in there about how we arrived at that. If they look at one of
our charts after they hear me say, the average PCI for this section of the road is less
than 45, they can then go and look at that, and that also allows the councilmembers and
the residents to be able to compare. Because not only is it going to tell you or give you
the definitions of a 45 PCI, but it's going to include cracks, whether you got longitudinal
cracks, whether you've got graders, or whether it's block. So there's some descriptions
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in there that help them better understand why they may or may not have a higher or
lower PCI rating based on those conditions. And it's basically the industry standard.
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, Director, so I'II just rephrase a little bit. So I completely get
we've got a low traffic road that's at a 48. Right? And there's an adjacent higher traffic
road that flows into that. Right? That might be at a 52. That 52 could very well be a
much higher priority. So how do we gauge that and how does that work with the score?
And how do we communicate that to the residents?
WELDY: So there's a couple of questions there. And let's first discuss priorities. So the
priorities are arterials, collectors, and then lastly locals. And the locals are the majority.
So that is the residential streets. In regards to conveying it to a resident that has a
question, the local roads as a whole are going to, at least outside of the gated
communities, are going to have a much lower PCI rating right now because that's our
biggest backlog. The road adjacent to that, and now we're going to get a little bit more
complicated into sub -category classifications. A minor collector might be feeding that
local road, and that PCI might be in the mid-50s for a section of it, or above 65 or 70 for
another section. And so you can simply just explain that the PCI equates to the level of
service. What do you want your road to ride like when you drive on it and/or walk on it
or cycle on it? Do you want it to be a 60 or 70 or 40 or a 50? The only one that has
anything higher, by the way, is Paradise Valley.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. You said something that really intrigued
me. And when I first moved to Fountain Hills, I noticed that some of the roads were just
unusually wide. And then you said there's a 60-foot road that we could repair the two
driving lanes, which, if my calculations are right, that'd be like 20 feet? And then there'd
be 20 feet on each side that would not be repaired.
WELDY: So Madam Mayor, Councilmember, what we would propose is the travel lanes,
which are 12 feet wide.
KALIVIANAKIS: 12 feet? Okay.
WELDEY: And then two-way left turn is a 12-footer.
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KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
WELDY: So three 12s. And the remainder of that would not receive the same
treatment.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. And that would just be designated, like parking and a bike lane?
WELDY: Yes, that is correct. It would be -- when we restriped it.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah.
WELDY: Which we've recently done, El Lago. I could go down a long list where we've
actually created a bike lane and a shoulder. That's what we would do there. We would
have an eight -foot shoulder and a five-foot bike lane, or an eight -foot shoulder and a
four -foot bike lane. I could go through any number of quantifying the width on the
shoulder and the bike lane. But the travel lanes and the two-way left turn --
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah.
WELDY: -- is the most critical.
KALIVIANAKIS: It's like the one that people talk to me a lot about is Palomino. And I
think that's a pre -incorporation road. And is that 60 feet, Palomino? I know that's
another real wide one.
WELDY: It is. It's 60 feet wide.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah.
WELDY: Ironically, a small section of it is about 65 PCI because it was built in the well,
late 90s, early 2000s, but the remainder of it was built, because keep in mind, it's long
and wide. And so it was built in segments. And so it's not all the same age, but there is
a short piece of it that's in relatively good condition because the developer that built
those homes redid the road in front of his homes for obvious reasons.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
WELDY: So that creates a challenge.
KALIVIANAKIS: And so last question. And so if we were to redo Palomino, would we
retrench the driving lanes and the turning lanes, or would this be pavement laid on top
of pre -incorporation roads?
WELDY: So there's two questions there, Councilmember. One of them is prior to us
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going in there, we would go and do our self -exploratory geotechnical on it and make a
determination whether or not we needed to go down 18 inches or just go down 3.5 or 4
inches and put new pavement. One of the Tess expensive alternatives is to concentrate
on the travel lanes and the two-way left turn lane. And I have proposed this, and it's not
been well received in regards to Palomino. When the funding is available that Palomino
needs to be substantially reduced in width and when that project is underway, add
sidewalk. Because the sidewalk would now be going on the flat part of the road as
opposed to those steep driveways. Narrowing it is an excellent form of traffic calming,
but it also reduces the future cost for maintenance. So theoretically, because that is --
and what we'll refer to that is a major collector subclassification. It's a major collector.
So it would have a 12-foot travel lane, two of them, and a 12-foot, two-way left turn
lane, a 8-foot shoulder, and a 4-foot bike lane. And then a four -foot or five-foot
sidewalk included.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. That sounds innovative, creative, and you got my vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: So since there's really only one action item and really just to change
the terminology so that whatever we look, we can find what we're doing here, go from
the ABCs to the PCI rating. If somebody wouldn't mind making a motion to do that?
FRIEDEL: Move to approve that.
TOTH: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Can we please get a roll call?
MENDENHALL: Yes. Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Permission to explain my vote? I just want to remind people that back last
June, I did propose $1.3 million of savings to be applied to roads and also made a
motion to take the additional funds, end of year funds. You can almost say surplus, the
4.9 and apply it to roads. So that would give us a very healthy balance. And if we did
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that every year we could pay as we go very easily. And with that, I vote aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. More to come. We really appreciate all your work.
All your work back there, the committee and RAS. It's a complicated issue. Thank you.
Our last item is about the League of Cities and Towns and the legislative bulletins that
we've gotten and the calls that we've kind of been on on the Monday mornings. If
anybody wants to kick it off, I'd appreciate it.
MCMAHON: I'd like to. Based on the calls we've had, there's been a couple of bills that
I think that we need to stand up for. I think that SB1361, regarding regulation of sober
homes would be one that we would like to weigh in on. Also HB2518, I think, isn't that
the one that prohibits local governments from regulating their housing designs and
things like that? So if that is -- pardon me. No that's SB11.
MAYOR DICKEY: 518 is a good one.
MCMAHON: That's right. It's SB1112. I think we need to vote against because it's too
prohibitive for municipalities. And HB2593, the public records time frame is
unreasonable. And also HB2325 something about backyard chickens regulation
prohibiting the towns from regulating that. I think that one needs to be voted against as
well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MCMAHON: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: What was the third one you said or the -- you said 1361? And which
was the --
MCMAHON I said 1361, 1284, 1361, 41285. Well, no, I didn't say that one yet. Sorry.
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41361. And the 2518 the municipality's housing needs assessment. I think that was the
one that they recommended we all --
MAYOR DICKEY: Support.
MCMAHON: Support. The other one, HB 2325, they're calling it the chicken one, say no
to. And HB2593 the public records prohibitive, and the SB1112 is prohibitive, regarding
how we can govern and regulate the home design and restrictions, et cetera.
MAYOR DICKEY: Good.
MCMAHON: Sorry about that.
MAYOR DICKEY: No. That's good. And the Senate bill that you said is exactly the same
as a House bill. It's like a --
GRZYBOWSKI: That's 1112.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- twin bill. Yeah. So it's 2570 and 1112 are both the same. And the,
the one that's really pretty relevant here is 2297, which would make commercial
zoning -- that you'd have to allow residential by right. Like I said, it would make our life
easier, but basically, it's like no public input, anything. It's just residential mixed use. If
it's commercial, it can do that without any rezoning or -- it's pretty interesting that one.
So I think we should definitely be against that one. The 2275, which is Aaron, we talked
about that one because if you have a settlement agreement as a town, if there's
something going on, you have a settlement agreement, it imposes reporting and
approval requirements on cities. So basically you'd have to get -- it would have to go
through the governor and JLAC. We'd have to go through Council of House and the
Senate and negotiations. So -- so if it's something between us and the town and a
developer or the town and a business or whatever, a resident we couldn't even make
the settlement on our own. We couldn't negotiate the settlement on our own. So that
one I think we would definitely want to oppose.
So 2297. Another one that we're for is 2111, which is helpful for the sober living homes,
also because it gives some tools to DHS to allow them to do more investigations and
such. So that would help the cities. So we would support that one too, because it helps
dive into some of that sober living home -- some of those sober living home issues. Just
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looking real quick if there were any others that had to do with zoning. 2584, that one
residential materials, we couldn't require materials or restricts the ability of cities and
towns to set standards. Yeah.
MCMAHON: That's SB1112 as well, I think.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's a different one.
MCMAHON: Oh.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. This one has to do with like if you live somewhere where there's
flooding and you wouldn't be able to be allowed to have certain culverts or certain
requirements, like if you live in Flagstaff and you have fires and stuff. So it takes away
any of that local decision -making, which in general is usually what we're not in favor of
anyways.
Oh so short term rental ones that are really good that probably won't see the light of
day, but 1205 and 2489 they are -- Senator Kavanagh is sponsoring these bills. They're
they were League resolutions so those would be great. And I know there's a group of
people that are upset about a lot of short term rentals and such, and it would help, like
there'd be distances between them and caps on how many there had to be and that
kind of thing. So those are -- we really want to support those. Okay. Yeah. So that's it.
And there's a group of people in Fountain Hills really interested in those, and they've
been doing a lot of emailing and stuff, so maybe they'll get them to put it on an agenda
somewhere.
If anybody has any questions about any of them you know, happy to let you know. We
got these big explanations for each of them, but I don't want to go into that all now. So
you got -- you were writing down, I saw. So can we decide that we want to take those
positions as a council? And some of that is going to be we're too late for the request to
speak. So I think we might need to do an email. And if it's a senate bill to the Senate
President or the Senate and then or to the caucuses, and if it's a house bill to the House,
because I think some of them have already gotten out of committee. So, you might
have to ask a little bit about how to do that.
TOTH: Okay. I'm good.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, so a couple of things, like that last one. Like I see there's
no hearings scheduled for it. And at this time, I don't expect it to get a hearing. The
only one that I would be comfortable adding -- I mean, there's a couple of them, like the
materials and stuff. I think I've already RTS against it. But the only one I'd really be
comfortable doing as a council person would be the sober home regulation. And that
one, I don't foresee many changes. I've talked to the sponsor about it. He's not open to
a couple other changes, but he didn't write the bills, but. And it's probably going to
move as is.
MAYOR DICKEY: So you don't. Well, we're going to probably vote to take a stand on
these other bills. So --
SKILLICORN: I mean, if you want to put up the number and we'll look at them and vote
up or down, that's fine. But well, put the number on it and we'll -- I would suggest
looking it up. Because some of them I know you support, some of you don't support,
there's, you know, obviously the yes or no matters.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right?
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: It's just a matter of -- I mean, basically these are the positions of the
League of Cities and Towns.
SKILLICORN: I would just suggest if there's ones that are important to you, we make
them -- go with motions on -- if it's two bills, it's three bills or ten bills. That's what I
would suggest.
MCMAHON: But you've been attending the League legislative sessions, right? As most
of us have. So for me, I understand what the bills are and what I'm voting for or against,
as I said. So.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Toth, did you have something? No?
I mean, would you be able to read through what I said and then we can vote on whether
we're going to take those positions?
GOODWIN: Sure. Between Aaron and I, we can take care of that.
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MAYOR DICKEY: And Peggy.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
ARNSON: Start with the easy ones. Sober living homes.
GOODWIN: Yes. Before we start, is anybody going to be Googling these so that you
have the verbiage in front of you? Or do we feel like everyone is pretty comfortable if
we kind of give a brief synopsis of each one?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
GOODWIN: Okay.
ARNSON: Sober living.
GOODWIN: Yes.
ARNSON: HB 2111.
GOODWIN: Yes. So the sober living, the SB1361 and I'm sorry, what was the partner
one?
ARNSON: HB2111.
GOODWIN: 2111. So those are the two sober living. Those are the twin ones. It
sounded like there was support for supporting those two.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
GOODWIN: Okay. Great.
ARNSON: We want to do the --
GOODWIN: HB -- I've got support here listed for the HB2578.
ARNSON: Let's continue with doing the short term rental ones. HB1205, HB2489.
GOODWIN: Yep.
ARNSON: For support. Sorry I'm just --
GOODWIN: No, that's okay.
ARNSON: -- you're not --
GOODWIN: Yeah. No, that's right. These are again, these are kind of the ones that
came up. The short term rental items, the SB1205 and the HB2489. Again, those are
both the League supported items. Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
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ARNSON: What was 2518? Do you know what that was?
GOODWIN: 2518, I do, and I --
GRZYBOWSKI: My notes on that say municipalities housing needs assessment, zoning.
GOODWIN: Yes.
GRZYBOWSKI: Gress -- the name on it.
GOODWIN: Yes.
GRZYBOWSKI: And that was a yes, a support.
GOODWIN: It is. That's another League supported one. It removes the requirement
that notices pertaining to public hearings on zoning ordinances be published at least one
newspaper, et cetera.
SKILLICORN: Yeah, that's one that I cannot support. That's not very transparent.
MAYOR DICKEY: It's -- oh, sorry.
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: The one that from Gress?
SKILLICORN: Yeah. Madam Mayor, it eliminates notice requirements. It would just jam
through zoning changes so neighbors would know. I could not support that.
ARNSON: And I think that's the collective position of the council, actually. Right?
MAYOR DICKEY: No, no. It's --
ARNSON: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, according to the League --
ARNSON: (Indiscernible) I apologize.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- there's a compromise that we're going to get behind a 180-day shot
clock to rezone some exceptions. So we had a little bit of issues with that. But then
they have discretionary decision -making council, public process, and feel like they could
meet the rezoning request. We don't need to take a position on this one necessarily.
Because I think that the League was sort of lukewarm on it, but they're supporting it, I
think, to be for a compromise. But so we can take that one off. And that would help
what Allen wants too.
GOODWIN: Okay. We have the twin bills again, the HB2570 and the SB1112. Those are
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the -- that's.
MCMAHON: Opposed.
ARNSON: Yeah. Those are the ones that -
GOODWIN: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: No setbacks, no requirements, no HOAs, no nothing. Okay.
SKILLICORN: Great. Okay.
ARNSON: Public records HB2593.
SKILLICORN: I am in support of that bill.
ARNSON: So what do you want to do?
GOODWIN: That's the public records one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, that's the one. I don't think Linda would like that one very much.
Yeah. We can still keep that one on. Because I think that -- it has punitive parts to it, if
we don't get public records out within five days of a request of acknowledgment that it
was received and when it will be fulfilled. We all know that there's times where we
have quite a few, so I don't think -- yeah. The League is opposed to that as well. 2593.
ARNSON: Agree.
GOODWIN: Correct. We have the aforementioned chicken item, HB2325, which allows
backyard chickens in --
SKILLICORN: And I am in support of that.
GRZYBOWSKI: In case anybody was wondering, it's a half -acre. You're allowed six
chickens, according to this bill.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, but yeah, I think they were allowing that -- I think that was the
only problem that the League had with it was the small size of the lot. So I'm not really
that against that one. So but I'm -- it's up to you guys if you want to.
SKILLICORN: I believe there's people in town that would like chickens. So I'm also.
TOTH: I'm also in support of the chicken bill.
SKILLICORN: I actually know of scofflaws --
GRZYBOWSKI: I do know that there are people that in town that would support
chickens, but I think a half -acre is too small.
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MAYOR DICKEY: That's the only problem. We may be able to support it.
SKILLICORN: And on that half -acre size, it's actually a pretty much a nationwide
standard. But most states allow on half an acre or less.
FRIEDEL: I'm not willing to fry an egg on this one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Let's take that out. If we take that out, are we going to get your
support on some of these? Take the chickens out?
MCMAHON: (Indiscernible) from any regulation of it.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think this bill is going to be amended and that will be fine, but we're
whatever you want to do, I don't know.
GOODWIN: We have the 2297, which is the adaptive reuse.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. That one's no good.
SKILLICORN: The commercial?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
SKILLICORN: 22 what?
GOODWIN: 97. Yes. The commercial one. Um -hum. The adaptive reuse for
commercial buildings.
SKILLICORN: I'm opposed. I'm very opposed.
MAYOR DICKEY: I would think so. After everything we've been through.
GOODWIN: We have the 2275, which is the settlement agreement.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, yeah. No.
SKILLICORN: So I actually like the idea of this. Settlement agreements is consent
decrees of extra -- are causing taxpayer money to fly out the window to the federal
government and courts and such. And it would save taxpayers a lot of money to say no
to some of these consent decrees. And there's a battle in Scottsdale, in Phoenix right
now over a consent decree -- and that's what this is about. This is probably the state
putting its nose in the business. But it would pull back some -- it would actually give the
state and locals more power and not -- and actually take some power back from the
federal government.
MAYOR DICKEY: Aaron, earlier you said something about -- not confidentiality. But you
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know, when you're talking to -- when you're talking to somebody and you're doing the
legal work.
ARNSON: Attorney -client privilege.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. And you said that this would breach that, because if we had
something that we were working out with a developer, then we'd have to tell the JLAC,
the governor's office, and the council of the House and the Senate of any negotiations
that we were doing.
ARNSON: If you're ever a part of settlement negotiations, this throws such huge
wrenches into those negotiations. You can't settle stuff between the insurer and the
insured without interjection from the legislative process. You have privilege issues. You
have autonomy of settling basically any case that's of any significant dollar value
without there being a whole extraneous process. So I mean, from the attorney's
position, which is just my legal view, policy positions aside, I totally disfavor the idea.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Is that it?
ARNSON: No. Building materials, last one.
GOODWIN: Was it 2584?
ARNSON: Yes.
GOODWIN: The building materials.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, yeah.
GOODWIN: Okay. I think that gets us through them all.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think most of us are good with that. And obviously things will change
by the minute and we'll see. Okay. All right.
Next is our discussion direction. So we had some folks speak, looking at our substance
of -- wait, it was our ordinance. The Coalition was asking us to look at some stuff. They
sound like they had something specific in mind. So we might want to see what they
were talking about?
GOODWIN: We can certainly circle back with them.
MAYOR DICKEY: Awesome. And then we were asked to look again at our ethics. And I
think as far as the whole rules and procedure, there are things that we were going to
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FEBRUARY 6, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
look at. So I think we just add that to the list, please. And then anything else from the
public or anything that you that we need to circle back on? So our last item is the future
agenda items. Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I've got a couple. One, we received some emails from a
resident about something acknowledging Pluto. I kind of want -- I don't want to spend
lots of time on this, but I think that someone more create -- the former planet Pluto. I
saw a look of confusion there.
FRIEDEL: I watch Disney with my children.
MAYOR DICKEY: The planet.
SKILLICORN: Well, yeah. Not the dog. Not the dog. The --
MAYOR DICKEY: The planetary one?
SKILLICORN: Yeah. Since that was discovered by the Flagstaff Observatory, we have a
Dark Sky Center. I wonder if someone more creative than me would come up with an
idea, like, of naming the parking lot after Pluto or something fun like that, but maybe
staff could bump it around, and then we could spend just a few minutes talking about
the retreat. Something also with the retreat, I'd love to talk about a commercial kitchen
in the community center. And then also hopefully before the retreat, I'd like to amend
our DEI policy for the town.
GRZYBOWSKI: Do we have one?
SKILLICORN: Exactly.
GOODWIN: So just to clarify, are you looking to propose one or.
SKILLICORN: Yes.
GOODWIN: Or you'd like us to propose one?
SKILLICORN: Yeah. I've got ideal language that I'd like to propose.
GOODWIN: Okay. Is that something you're willing to share so that we can get an item
together?
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
GOODWIN: Okay. Great.
MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry. Councilwoman?
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
FEBRUARY 6, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
TOTH: If he needs a second, I second all of those. Justice for Pluto.
SKILLICORN: Maybe she's the creative one that can think of our tribute.
TOTH: I'm on it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Let's see. Okay. The commercial kitchen thing, I don't know that that's
a discussion for that has to be on an agenda. But you know, we'll talk about it.
GOODWIN: I think he mentioned having it at the retreat.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh.
SKILLICORN: I think that that would be a good place for it.
GOODWIN: That's totally fine.
SKILLICORN: So I don't think that we're ready to provide direction, but have it see what
consensus is, see what our vision is.
MAYOR DICKEY: You mean like as a capital improvement item for the retreat?
SKILLICORN: There's been talk about that for a while, but what does it look like? What
is it? I think we need -- and then we can specify that because we don't -- I think there's
a vision we can come together to create and then ask staff to make it happen.
GOODWIN: Noted. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Thank you. Anything else for the good of the order? All right.
We are adjourned. Thank you.
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Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting
of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on February 6, 2024, at 9:31 p.m.
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
Ginn Dickey, Mad
Mayor
L(nda G. Mendenhall. Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the
minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the
Town Hall Council Chambers on the 6th day of February 2024. I further certify
that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 19th Day of March 2024.
Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk