HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024.0319.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
MARCH 19, 2024
A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E.
Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:30 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Brenda J. Kalivianakis;
Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon;
Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Allen Skillicorn
Members Attending Telephonically: Councilmember Hannah Toth
Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D.
Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Approximately One Hundred thirty-seven members of the public were
present.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MARCH 19, 2024, TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
Town Council Meeting Minutes
March 19, 2024
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to our meeting. Please stand for
the pledge and remain standing, if you choose, for the invocation.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We have Vicky Derksen, Fountain Hills resident.
DERKSEN: Mayor, councilmembers, and town staff, thank you for accepting the
challenge of serving as our governing body in Fountain Hills.
We residents, as diverse as we are in our traditions, beliefs, and demographics, can all
agree that we rely on you to use the tools of wisdom, reason, and empathy. These tools
will propel cooperation, control the tone of deliberations, and lead to decisions that are
right not just for today but also for the months and years ahead.
As I watch the sunrise next to Four Peaks on this first day of spring today, I was
reminded of how small and fleeting our lives are when compared to the expanse of time
and space, but we can make life more expansive by loving the place where we live,
finding ways to bring more happiness and beauty to the people we call neighbors, and
encouraging one another to the best versions of ourselves.
We all want the same thing: for Fountain Hills to be its best version of itself. We may
have different ideas of what that looks like, but through wisdom, reason, and empathy,
we can find common ground and help this town evolve into a place that we love more
and more each day. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Here.
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MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Here.
MENDENHALL: Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the
agenda or under call to the public should fill out a request or comment card located in
the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of
that agenda item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into
the microphone, and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments
to three minutes.
It is the policy of the mayor and council to not comment on items brought forth under
call to the public; however, staff can be directed to report back to the council at a future
date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Linda. Before we do our reports from the mayor and
council and our town manager, I just wanted to please note that Councilman Skillicorn
has exercised his right to have item 9A discussed exclusively in this public forum, so we
did not have an executive session per Councilman Skillicorn. So I just wanted to let you
know before we got started.
So why don't we start with our traveling town manager with her report?
GOODWIN: Yes. Thank you, Mayor, council, audience. Thanks everybody for coming
out. I wanted to actually extend a quick congratulations to staff on a very successful
Irish Fest last weekend. We got lucky with some beautiful weather. I know we had
some rain intermittent there, but it worked out to be a beautiful day.
Special thanks to Vice Mayor Kalivianakis for working off the greening for us. We
appreciate that. Everything went great. Staff did a great job. We had increased
attendance. We had increased revenues. It was a smashing success all the way around.
But I did want to remind everybody, if you did not get a chance to get your
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commemorative State 48 Greening shirt, we still have a few of those available here at
town hall, so you can stop by and grab one; get ready for next year if you want.
And then a reminder that we're not done. We still have lots of events coming. This
weekend is our annual Eggstravaganza Easter egg hunt for our little ones. It starts at 8
a.m. at Four Peaks Park. It's free, so we're inviting everybody to come out and join us.
With that, that's everything I have, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Councilmember Toth, do you have a report?
TOTH: I do not. Thank you, Madam Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: Happy first day of spring. If you guys are like me and you have spring
allergies, you knew like ten days ago that this day was coming.
We had two legislative updates during the course of the past two weeks and last week I
had an opportunity to meet with Maricopa County Supervisor Tom Galvin. And today is
Stellar Student Day. It's our favorite day of the month. We're so excited to have you
guys here. We love the youth showing up and we appreciate you guys, and
congratulations. Thank you.
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. I had the privilege of attending the Farmers Market
recently and there were 50 young entrepreneurs with booths there. It was really an
awesome event to have these young partners in our town be there, and they learned a
lot about entrepreneurship, leadership, selling their wares. A lot of good artists down
there, so the next time that comes around, you want to definitely make a trip down
there.
And I was down at the Irish Fest working the beer tent. I can't believe the amount of
beer. There were a lot of Irish people down there this year, so packed house. And it
was really a fun event.
And we had our kite festival recently too, so that was also an awesome event. And I
went on a business retention call with Amanda Jacobs and Betsy from the Chamber
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today at the Mindful Barbell. And it's quite a nice little operation he's got there, so if
you get the chance, he's right down on the Avenue. Stop and say hi to John down there.
And we also recently had a meeting with staff and stakeholders concerning the fire
buffer zone ordinance that we're working on, and we'll be rolling something out on that
relatively quickly, I think, so maybe next month.
So that's all I have, Mayor.
MCMAHON: Good evening, everybody, and thank you for attending. I also had been
attending the legislative sessions, and I wrote a letter to the governor to veto HB 2570
and she took all of those letters in consideration and she vetoed it, thankfully.
Also attended a ribbon cutting for a really cool gym called Iron Roots. It's family run and
it's a small gym but it's really great, and it's right down across from Wendy's, and I
would advise everybody to go check it out and get healthy.
Also, Mayor Dickey and I attended the Fountain Hills Women's annual fundraiser fashion
show and that was a really good experience. Of course, the Irish Festival, the Greening
of our fountain. Even though it took a couple of minutes, but anyway, it was really,
really a fun event.
And I also attended the fire buffer zone meeting with Gerry, and yes, something will be
coming out soon from our results of that committee meeting.
And this week, on Thursday night at 4:30 at the community center, there's going to be
our Cares forum. And it's on civility and we have some great speakers to talk about
civility, to educate us on it, and also to have open exchange of conversation to address
any questions or concerns you may have.
So I hope to see you there. I hope you attend. And thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Good evening, everybody, and thank you all for coming out tonight and livestreaming,
YouTube, Cox Channel 11. And of course, if they can't see it, but we have an absolutely
packed room here tonight. An informed and engaged citizenry is a keynote to a good
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local governance and we have it in spades here. So thanks everybody for coming out
tonight.
Just another health report on myself. Last week I explained to this group and some
people, if you weren't here, I've had eye surgery done two weeks ago and I had it done
yesterday and had to go back today to have them take a look at it. And so I mean no
disrespect, but these appointments since COVID are months and months out, and if you
cancel them, you won't get them for many months to go. So it was really important to
me to get the surgery done and also to be here tonight. My doctor said, you either
don't show up or, like I said last week, go as a pirate or go as a rockstar. So tonight I
chose a rockstar look again, and so excuse me for wearing these silly glasses.
I just wanted to let you know that the Bar Rescue did a refurbishment of one of our local
businesses called the Skybox. And they filmed that a month ago. I helped liaise with the
permitting, and so Maricopa County did a crackerjack job with the crowd control and all
the people that were waiting in line and stuff. They filmed it. They chose to use that
episode and last week we had a view party at the Skybox to a ton of people. And they
were on TV and it was just wonderful. It's on Paramount. So if you get a chance to look
at that, it's one of our local businesses featured really prominently.
Also, I had a chance to go to the Irish Festival and that was wonderful. And Ryan from
parks and rec and myself, we did the grand introduction that morning. And we did the
Greening of the Fountain, which was wonderful. And then I did stay to work through
the rest of the afternoon and Gerry served the beers, and I collected the money. And
boy, did we collect a lot of money. It was amazing.
I want to thank Maricopa County. I want to thank everybody involved for doing -- again,
just a crackerjack job.
One interesting note, the Caledonian Pipe Band played there this weekend. I actually
played with the Caledonian Pipe Band when I was playing with the Coastguard Auxiliary
Band at the Scottish games. So I actually had performed with one of the groups in
attendance that week, and so that was kind of fun.
Did the home -delivered meals this week. And they all keep telling me, for all you
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speakers that come up here to call to the public, please speak into the microphone
because they can't hear you. And also for all of our presenters, you've really got to
speak up because the people at home can't hear unless you speak directly into the mic,
so I'd appreciate that.
I also did the ribbon cutting for Iron Roots, and what a wonderful business that is.
Located down -- kind of like by the propane place, and it's a heck of a gym, and we're
down there with Peggy and the mayor, welcoming them.
And lastly, with the legislative update, last week I informed you guys that there was a
huge bill coming about high -density housing. It's called the Affordable Homes Act. And
if they were to pass that -- and it was passed in the legislature, it would have opened up
developers to do a great deal of high -density housing that would have been really
detrimental to Fountain Hills. Fortunately, the governor vetoed it, I think, on Monday.
So we dodged a bullet there.
So good job, Mayor.
And good job, Governor.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your time tonight.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Welcome to Fountain Hills.
I'm going to go reverse order here. Just a couple of events that I was able to stop by and
kind of celebrate our awesome town. First off, the Farmers Market we have every
Wednesday, that was great to attend. I did stop by the St. Patrick's Day and the green
fountain, that was a blast. But also a week and a half ago -- or a week ago was the PICO
kite festival which was actually fabulous. And one thing that was kind of fun is this
morning, when I was reading the newspaper, I read about the Arizona Spelling Bee
which was won by an eighth grader. Not a Fountain Hills resident, but that's kind of
interesting. And the word was volemic, and they would have had me on the spelling on
that one, but that's relating to or concerning the volume of circulating blood or plasma.
So I would have had no idea, and the fact that it has to do with blood kind of grosses me
out.
But that's all.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
I was invited to speak to a bunch of second graders over at McDowell Mountain. It was
really great. They were asking a lot of questions and very bright and there was a couple
of Stellar Students there, said hi, I already met you. So it was really neat. And I want to
thank the instructor, Lizzie Cooper, for inviting me. She has a kind of a neat story. Her
mom teaches there too.
The Women's Club, 50th anniversary, we'll have a proclamation for their 50th
anniversary I think in next month. And the Irish Fest -- I was there on the Saturday, but
then on the Sunday, Channel 10 was there and Channel 12 was there. And we were
down by the playground and it was the Sunday, so it wasn't the big day, but it was just
so many people there. It was really nice to be there for that.
And speaking of young people, we have our Stellar Students tonight. So the way this
works, kids that are here, I read about you from up here. You come on up after I say
your name and read the nice things about you. And then our friend, Angela, here, she
will give you your certificate. And then we'll line up here and then when we're all done,
we'll take a picture. And then, while I'm down there, after we're done with the Stellar
Students, we're going to do a 50th anniversary -- it must be in the air for it to be our
50th anniversary, of the Fountain Hills Presbyterian Church. So as soon as we're done
with the kids, I'll stay down there and have the proclamation. And I believe, the
Reverend Dr. Bob Simmons is here; the clerk of sessions, Jack Reynolds; and our friend,
volunteer, and long-time resident, Jackie Miles. So be prepared. When we're done with
the kids, we'll go right into that.
So we always start with our Little Falcons. And our first Little Falcon is Sabrina Rogers.
Is Sabrina here?
All right. Come on up.
"Sabrina's a very kind person and a great friend. She often offers to help and
encourages her friends, especially" --
You can come on up. You come on. That's good. Stay right with her.
"She compliments others often. She mentions when she likes someone's artwork or
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their block structure. She is thoughtful and very observant and often makes kind
remarks about a student's nice outfit or new hairstyle." Speaking of outfits. "Sabrina
has good manners and remembers to say please and thank you. She shows pride and
good citizenship during snack time by always cleaning up her area and she pushes in her
chair many times and pushes in the chairs for her friends that might forget. It's a
pleasure to have Sabrina in my class." That's Sabrina Rogers.
Our next Little Falcon -- come up and keep her company -- Hudson Miller. Is Hudson
here?
All right. Come on up.
"Hudson is a fine citizen and takes a keen interest in school. He often volunteers to help
and is always cooperative. Even when Hudson is busy, he is still willing to help other
students. He's very complimentary and supportive. He always has something positive
and encouraging to say and helps friends in need." This sounds familiar. "Hudson often
volunteers to clean up and he pushes his chair in after snacks even when his friends
forget. Hudson is well liked by his peers and he is a pleasure to have in class." Hudson
Miller.
Now, we'll go to McDowell Mountain. Our next student is Kandus Lalo. Is Kandus here?
Come on up, Kandus, if you're here. There you go.
"Kandus is a perfect example of a Stellar Student. Not only does she always do her very
best on her work, she's extremely polite, respectful, and considerate of others. She
goes out of her way to be helpful and support others in need. In art class, Kandus
demonstrates great skill and effort in all that she does. She shares her enthusiasm for
art by sharing her work that she's completed at home and new skills she's learning. She
goes above and beyond and is most deserving of the title Stellar Student."
Congratulations, Kandus.
Our next McDowell Mountain student is Dante Cachucha. Is Dante here?
Come on up, Dante.
"Dante is a Stellar Student because he is polite, attentive, and helpful to others. Dante
has an amazing gift for art and design, especially weaving, and it's a pleasure to see his
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creations in art class. He's also a wonderful inspiration to his peers. It's an honor to
nominate Dante for being a respectful, kind, responsible Stellar Student."
Congratulations, Dante.
Middle school time. Tayler Sinyella. Is Tayler here?
Come on up, Tayler.
"Tayler has outstanding qualities as a student. She consistently demonstrates kindness,
diligence, creativity, and unwavering dedication to her academic pursuits. Her
exemplary character shines bright as she interacts with her peers and her teachers. She
is a solid and genuine student." Tayler.
Next, from Fountain Hills Middle School is Cash Broetsky. Is Cash here?
Come on up, Cash. This is great.
Cash is described by his teachers as "A top-notch middle school student. He embodies
intelligence, thoughtfulness, respect, kindness, and helpfulness. He consistently
participates in class discussions and Cash demonstrates a genuine care for his
education." That's Cash Broetsky .
Okay. High school. Racine Homyak. I hope I'm saying that right. Well, we are going to
read about her anyway. "She's dedicated to her academic journey. She spends her time
on and engages the essay prompts no matter if it's a simple bell work prompt or a
prompt for a larger essay. Racine writes" -- in capital letters. -- "she gives her insightful
and thoughtful responses, provides evidence which shows she's read the work and
understands the material, and her written work is interesting to read, which in my world
counts for a great deal." That's from the teacher. "Racine is also prompt, studies for
exams, and is a fantastic member to have in a group as she's enthusiastic and fun. Every
day she brings her crazy cat" -- which is a Beanie Baby, I guess -- "to class. It makes my
day to see her cat sitting on the desk while she works." So let's say hi and applaud for
Racine.
Our last student is also from Fountain Hills High and it's Kai Collier. Is Kai here?
All right. Come on up.
"Kai. He is consistently surpassing expectations, completing tasks ahead of schedule,
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and demonstrating utmost respect in all interactions. He takes immense pride in being
a part of the band, evident in his dedication and enthusiasm. Kai is a Stellar Student."
Yay, Kai.
Okay. We need to move a little bit. All right. Look at the camera and smile. All right.
Thank you guys, so much.
Do we have the Presbyterian Church folks here at all? No? Aah, there we go. I'm
looking in the wrong direction. All right. We got the real one for you guys. Come on up.
And you can do the honors here and I'll read it from where the writing is big. All right.
Whereas, the Fountain Hills Presbyterian Church, a beacon of faith and community is
joyously celebrating its 50th year anniversary. And whereas, on March 31st, 1974, the
congregation held its first service at Little John's Bar with founding pastor Rev. Glenn
Atchinson preaching from a barstool to an audience of 60 people. Whereas, this historic
barstool now residing in the River of Time Museum symbolizes the humble beginnings
and steadfast commitment of the Presbyterian church to its congregation and our
community. Whereas the Rev. Glenn Atchinson, the brother-in-law of Sally Atchinson,
who was the first official resident of Fountain Hills, has played a significant role in
shaping the spiritual and communal landscape of our town, not only served as a
dedicated pastor from 1974 to 1998, but also contributed significantly to the growth
and development of Fountain Hills by serving as president of the Chamber of Commerce
in 1979. And whereas, the congregation of the Presbyterian church has thrived over the
past five decades, fostering a sense of community, compassion, and spiritual growth,
and a special service to commemorate the 50th anniversary will be held later in the year
with transitional pastor -- as it says here -- Rev. Dr. Bob Simmons presiding, continuing
the legacy of faith community established by the Rev. Glenn Atchinson.
So therefore, I, Mayor Ginny Dickey of Fountain Hills, do hereby recognize and proclaim
March 31st, 2024, as the 50th anniversary of the Fountain Hills Presbyterian Church and
encourage all citizens to join in the celebration and recognize the remarkable
achievements, enduring spirit, and unwavering commitment to the church for the
betterment of our community.
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Let's give them a hand.
SIMMONS: Well, Mayor and council, on behalf of our congregation we would like to
thank you very much for this proclamation, and we're so excited for the next 50.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, we all are. We're hopeful. Let's get a picture here.
Thanks so much.
Our next item is call to the public. Please say your full name and the city or town that
you come from.
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do have some speakers. We will start out with Gail
Conn, and on deck is Kelly Fifer.
CONN: Good evening. My name is Gail Conn, and I live at Village at Towne Center. And
I would like to invite all of the members of the council to come and take a walk from the
museum along the fence line that has been put down to Paul Nordin and see the
equipment that has been put there since June of 2022. There is a truck, a trailer, two
water trucks, a backhoe, three storage trailers, a business trailer, sawhorses, and
numerous pieces of trash that has been left in this field. I have looked at for nearly two
years now and I feel that the equipment could be moved closer to Park Place and let
their residents view this. I have viewed it since June of 2022. I would appreciate
something being done and appreciate if you would take a walk along the fence line
between the museum and Paul Nordin where Village at Towne Center resides. Thank
you.
FIFER: Yeah, I'm Kelly Fifer. I live in Fountain Hills, and I've got a big disagreement
about your ideas about the roads and especially Panorama. That is the least road that
needs to be done. There's only one spot in that road that needs to be fixed, and that is
the exit on the eastside of the parking lot, and that could be done with a patch.
We have numerous roads that needs to be done. The southbound road of Golden Eagle
from Richwood down to Sierra Madre. And on Richwood from Golden Eagle down to
Tepee is a mess, and then Palomino from Fountain Hills Boulevard to Palisades is also a
mess. My sister lives on that street, my brother-in-law, and they ruined three tires on
that street. My mom has ruined two tires on Golden Eagle southbound.
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The northbound is fine. The southbound is a mess. Also the intersection at Saguaro and
the three-way stop at Fountain Hills Boulevard is also a mess. Panorama is fine. I drive
it every day going to the dog park, and that is not a problem. And for you to spend that
much money on a road that doesn't need to be done is ridiculous and I do not agree
with your decisions about doing that. That's crazy.
Where is the money from the CARE project that we should be getting to do these
infrastructure projects? That's what I would like to know. Because this town is falling
apart. It is the worst streets. I am so embarrassed to have anybody drive into town and
see what's going on in these streets. It's ridiculous. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Beth Culp and, on deck, Kim Bartman. And then that
concludes public comment.
CULP: Good evening. My name is Beth Culp and I live in Fountain Hills. I'm here tonight
to bring to your attention to additional incidents where Councilman Skillicorn has
attacked the character and motives of other councilmembers and the mayor. Section
8.6 of the code of ethics provides that members of the town council must refrain from
making attacks upon the character and motives of other members of the council. In a
recent letter to his supporters, Councilmember Skillicorn stated, "My voice is being
silenced by a liberal mayor, by weaponizing our town's ethics code." This claim is false.
The fact is that there are only three ethics complaints that could result in sanctions. All
three of those complaints were filed by members of the town council. Not one of the
complaints was filed by the mayor.
Skillicorn has also claimed in recent communications that the mayor's handpicked legal
counsel ruled against me. That too is false. The lawyer was referred for this assignment
by the town attorney. The mayor took no part in that. And more importantly, the same
attorney who was assigned to review the three complaints that councilmembers
brought also reviewed the four complaints where you were found not to have violated
the ethics code. So to imply that the mayor handpicked somebody that was biased
against you is false and unfair.
You also have false claimed that you're being silenced by the mayor and the council
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because they will not allow you to defend yourself and confront your accusers during
this evening's proceedings. That too is a lie. It's false. It is true that in the sanctions
proceeding you won't be allowed to prevent or defend or discuss a defense, but you
have only yourself to blame for that because you and three other members of the
council -- sorry, Councilman Skillicorn and three other members of the council are the
ones that changed the rules of procedure. Under the changes that were made by those
four last fall, the matter is referred to outside counsel for review and determination,
and that finding is final and it's determinative and it cannot be appealed. I believe those
changes were made to make it more difficult for citizens to prevail.
You may recall that, at the same time, they included a penalty provision. So if your
claim is found to be without merit, you have to pay the legal fees.
I respectfully ask you, Council Skillicorn, to please stop with the false narratives. Things
are bad enough right now. Thank you.
BARTMAN: Hello, Mayor and council and town manager, town attorney. Kim Bartman,
Fountain Hills. I sent this email to Mayor and council and this is regarding when I saw an
article that said 12News.com, and it's from Mr. Skillicorn. He quotes, "They are just
doing this to embarrass me."
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I just ask -- is this appropriate or is it supposed to go to agenda
item, or is it okay? Because it's outside of the agenda item.
ARNSON: Sorry, I'm not quite sure what the nature of the comment is quite yet. Does it
have to do with the ethics matter?
BARTMAN: It has to do with something that was in the newspaper that he said that
they are just doing this to embarrass me. So it does have to do with --
MAYOR DICKEY: The agenda item?
BARTMAN: -- an email that I sent out to the council.
MAYOR DICKEY: Would you speak to that when we get to the agenda item?
BARTMAN: Unfortunately, I can't stay. So I will just -- I can email it, I guess. Well, I
emailed it already. Is that coming up soon?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Just -- I'm going to allow it. Go ahead.
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BARTMAN: Okay. So this is about the 12News where Mr. Skillicorn said, "They are just
doing this to embarrass me. Fountain Hills councilmember faces multiple ethic
complaints."
Mr. Skillicorn, do you deny that the code enforcement officer felt threatened? Do you
really think that those who claim you are committing ethic violations are doing this just
to embarrass you? We have owned a home and lived here in Fountain Hills in 2001. We
have raised our daughter here, and she will be a proud product of Fountain Hills Unified
School District, graduating in May. We love and support our community. From my
vantage point, I find your approach to be divisive, unbecoming of a Fountain Hills public
servant.
Yes, you have the right to speak out on your social media, but is this the way to
represent all town residents? For all of the council who continue to share Bible verses
and religious information during council meetings, I personally would find living Jesus'
teaching through loving and positive actions are a more effective way to spread your
faith than preaching during council meetings. Actions speak much louder than words.
As a follower of Jesus, I am saddened by the way some of you misrepresent Jesus'
teaching by not representing all Fountain Hills residents and appearing only to be
championing evangelical Christianity. It comes across as very exclusive. Jesus said the
gospels was not one to exclude. Some of you may claim to represent residents of all
faith, traditions, and backgrounds, but with your freedom of speech, you have chosen to
speak out loud and post/retweet much that contradicts Jesus.
I know that some will continue to share Bible verses in council meetings. My hope is
that you will show your faith through actions of love, that the negative publicity that
some of you are contributing to is embarrassing. Please help us all do better. Your
leadership matters. It can either continue to divide or bring us together. What a
success story this can be. I will do what I can to work with others to publicize positive
information about our town, a message that Fountain Hills is a community of inclusivity,
beauty, and friendliness. Hope we can work together. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Our next item is our consent agenda. Can I please get a motion?
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MCMAHON: Move to approve.
GRZYBOWSKI: Move to approve.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I get a second?
GRZYBOWSKI: Sorry about that.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's okay. Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Our next item is an item on our regular agenda regarding sanctions and possible censure
against Councilman Allen Skillicorn for sustained ethical violations. I don't know if we
have any -- if Aaron is going to start or if you have any words before we have the public
comments.
ARNSON: Sure, Mayor. I'm happy to introduce the item. I'll keep it very brief.
The council's aware, per the agenda that we're here to discuss, that council's
determination with respect to any sanctions imposed in Tight of the found ethical
violations in the reports attached to the agenda, that's in the council's determination
and I will turn it back to the council for discussion. If you have any questions, I'm happy
to answer them along the way as best I can.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
As we do with all items, we start with public comments cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do have public comment cards. You also have in your
packet some written comments and then a last-minute addition through another tab.
So in the written statements we have 5 against and 30 for -- 3, oh. And in public
comment we have quite a few. So we're going to start off with Joann Lyles, and on
deck, Pam Cap.
LYLES: Good afternoon. My name is Joann Lyles, and I appreciate the opportunity to
speak today. In 2022 more than 4,800 Fountain Hills residents voted to elect Allen
Skillicorn and he's been delivering the desired results: proactively addressing urban
camping, readopting the invocation, wise spending on roads, rejecting mask mandates
and shuttered businesses, and commitment to lowering taxes, not raising them. His
work as a councilmember has been in the best interests of the town. What isn't in the
best interests of the town are today's arguments for sanctions; namely, obvious political
retaliation, overreacting to social media posts, attaching the weight and authority of a
court of law to a report authored by the legal representative of the complainants.
The town has a duty to conduct its affairs impartially. Instead, we glide headlong into
destructive partisan territory. The fact is the constant stream of outbursts and
accusations, manipulate public opinion. They create division among residents,
something more dangerous than any ordinance. Again, Councilman Skillicorn
represents the views of thousands and thousands of town residents, and in freezing and
targeting him, agendas like today's have polarized Fountain Hills. It's not like the town
code has never been violated.
On March 5th public meeting revealed a willingness to circumvent procedural rules and
effectively discredit Councilman Skillicorn's reputation ahead of the required executive
session. Ironically, those with complaints were committing the exact offense that
Councilman Skillicorn allegedly committed. Ultimately the problem isn't the threat of
sanctions against the councilmember. Residents will be angry about it, but the town will
survive this vote. Ultimately, the problem is that the sustained harassment of
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Councilman Skillicorn and, by extension, those he represents has produced confusion
and retreat from public involvement. People don't want anything to do with the
consistent negativity. The result? Unprecedented division in Fountain Hills. Please
abandon this course of action. Thank you.
CAP: Good evening. Pam Cap, eight -year resident. As one of the complainants, I ask
this council to consider the actions and behavior of Councilmember Skillicorn carefully
and take the appropriate actions to condemn it. I also ask that you consider that
Councilmember Skillicorn has shown no regret, no remorse, and he has made zero
attempt to mend fences or find common ground. Councilmember Skillicorn is trying to
paint these ethic violations as politically motivated and part of a radical agenda. He
stated that technicalities in the law were being used to punish him. The truth is,
Councilmember Skillicorn is not running for any office currently and there is no radical
agenda other than holding our elected officials accountable for their unlawful actions.
And those technicalities Skillicorn claims were blatant violations of the minimum
standards set forth by your code of conduct. Simple rules that Councilmember Skillicorn
couldn't or wouldn't follow. Is this the type of behavior you want from future
councilmembers?
Elected officials are supposed to hold themselves to a higher standard than private
citizens, willingly. Councilmember Skillicorn is not even trying. He was caught lying to
the deputy the night he chased our code enforcement officer down. He has repeatedly
lied that rainbow flags and books about inclusivity are indoctrination. He has repeatedly
lied about drag queens and transgender people being pedophiles, when the truth is
most pedophiles are straight men: coaches, scout leaders, politicians, and church
elders.
Skillicorn has lied about his constituents. He attempted to file a police report against a
resident, her use of ready, aim, fire in an editorial. Yet he proudly displays a bazooka on
his shoulder with "I got you in my sight" on his social media aimed at us, those speaking
out against him.
The man learned how to spin things back in Illinois as a state rep when he got caught
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Tying. He's lied about the homeless issue here. He has lied about our park using money
improperly to pave parking lots instead of our streets. All he does is lie to be relevant.
Skillicorn claims his First Amendment rights are being violated by being held
accountable. The truth is, he is a liability Fountain Hills cannot afford.
Currently, Skillicorn has 30 to 40 residents blocked on his councilman social media pages
for no reason other than being a Democrat or a liberal. The Supreme Court ruled this is
a clear violation of our First Amendment rights, not his.
Skillicorn is trying to bring dirty Illinois politics to our town. It is clear the night he
attempted to intimidate the code enforcement officer by saying, "You are walking on
thin ice." These are the actions and words of a seasoned politician who doesn't care
about the rules or who he serves. Please take these charges seriously. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Faryl Palles and Cindy Couture on deck. So we'll have
Cindy Couture, and then, on deck, Crystal Cavanaugh.
COUTURE: Hello Mayor and council. My name is Cindy Couture. I've been a resident
since 2004. In the 2022 election, two years ago, Allen Skillicorn and his friends lied,
slandered me, twisted my words, and misrepresented me to win his seat on the council.
At the time I chalked it up to the fact that some people will do anything to win an
election.
However, Mr. Skillicorn has continued his bad acting. The current ethics violations are
just the tip of the iceberg. Through his actions, his words, and his social media posts, he
continues to misrepresent our town and he brings shame to Fountain Hills.
Just as he wore out his welcome in Illinois, he has now worn out his welcome in
Fountain Hills. He needs to be sanctioned. He needs to be kept from interacting with
town employees and he needs to be taught how to use social media so that it
represents the town respectfully.
Ideally, he should resign, maybe even move to a place more aligned with his thinking.
Perhaps Florida would take him off our hands.
CAVANAUGH: Crystal Cavanaugh, Fountain Hills resident. I'm here tonight to support
Councilman Skillicorn and express outrage that fellow Councilmembers Grzybowski and
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Kalivianakis even took it to the level of filing an ethics complaint.
You might not like his communication style, but he was actually asking a pretty
important question on January 17th. Had anyone on this dais talked with the
developers unilaterally or been promised anything from them? No one was specifically
accused, but there was plenty of pushback and outrage up there. Either those easy
responses could have been, no, I never met with them; no, no one promised me
anything; yes, I met to discuss a parking agreement; or yes, I did give my personal email
to the developers for them to send me documents directly in order to keep information
out of the public domain. Seeking the actual truth seemed of less importance than
rushing to file an ethics complaint.
I'm seeing a pattern here: playing fast and loose with the truth on some topics and then
rushing decisions without being fully informed. Isn't this the same ethics investigator
who deemed the complaint against Councilman Kalivianakis as unfounded even though
she did directly ask staff to remove signs after she voted for no enforcement?
Does Councilmember Grzybowski's description of residents from the dais as rich, White
A -holes qualify for an ethics complaint? Anyone of you could be the next target for any
minor offense if this is the game we're playing.
Sign ordinance locations and distances were confusing. Context is important. Many
political signs were being stolen during this time period, so Skillicorn had a tracker in his
sign and followed it in broad daylight to a location to get it back. This time it turned out
to code enforcement. He followed the sign to town hall, where there was also a deputy.
A simple conversation occurred between three men. No threats, no bad language, no
loud yelling, or physical altercation. No ethics violation. So why are you once again
putting this very selective public hanging on the agenda tonight and then not even
allowing him to speak to it?
But if you want to talk about unethical behavior, how about a sitting councilwoman
purposely giving out wrong information to the community, both before and after the
referendum was filed? Or another councilwoman as she sat on the dais pointblank
accusing me of lying to people to get their signatures? Or how ethical is it for our town
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government to circle the wagons with a coverup story after the petition debacle and put
out misinformation to the paper? You should not be providing any sanctions to
Councilmember Skillicorn for these personally motivated complaints.
In my opinion, there are way bigger issues going on here in this great town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is that it?
MENDENHALL: No. We have more. We have five more request -to -speak cards. Next
will be Richard Rutkowski and followed by Beth Culp.
RUTKOWSKI: Good evening, Mayor, and council. Richard Rutkowski, 22-year resident of
Fountain Hills. My main concern is the presence of this item on the public agenda.
Based upon my past experience in a variety of supervisory roles, discussion of possible
violations of policy and consideration of possible punitive actions are conducted in
private or in executive session.
In the past, alleged ethics violations against former councilmembers were not addressed
as part of the public agenda. In the interest of fairness and equal treatment, that
precedent should be applied to the current matter. Something very important which
bears repeating is Section 10.4 of the council's rules of procedure found on page 32,
which state, quote, "Once the review/investigation is concluded, outside counsel will
provide the town attorney with a determination whether the complaint is sustained or
not sustained. If the complaint is sustained, the town attorney will schedule an
executive session for review and enforcement by the town council," end of quote.
In addition, there have been public comments and observations about divisiveness on
the town council and a need for civility. Doesn't addressing this mater as part of the
public agenda actually serve to produce divisiveness? I think it does. Does including this
on the public agenda advance civility? I don't think so.
Lastly, I'm not a Bible scholar, but let me share something from the Bible which I think
applies and it may be familiar to many of you here. It's from John chapter 8 verse 7:
"Let the one among you who is without sin be the first to throw a stone."
I'll conclude with the thought that, if the rules of procedure were followed, item 9A
would never have made it to the public agenda and much divisiveness would have been
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avoided. Thank you.
CULP: Hello again. My name is still Beth Culp and I still live in Fountain Hills.
Councilmember Skillicorn recently wrote no one seriously believes that I have violated
our community standards of ethics. It's apparent based on the comments that have
been made in the cards and here tonight that there are in fact many, many people in
Fountain Hills who believe that our community standards have been violated time and
time again. But more importantly, there are two people, both of them members of our
town council, who have expressed their serious belief that Councilmember Skillicorn has
violated our community standards of ethics. They expressed that belief by filing ethics
complaints, and I'm sure they didn't do that lightly.
A third member of the town council, Councilmember Friedel, has also expressed his
serious belief that Mr. Skillicorn has violated our community standards of ethics. And in
an email to me that he sent on February 20th, 2024, Councilmember Friedel wrote: "As
for Skillicorn, I don't care one bit for his character and what he's done to our employees,
town, and residents. I think I have been clear about that in the past."
I would also like to address Councilmember Skillicorn's claim that this proceeding
violates his First Amendment rights. I think he knows that. I think he knows it now.
There's a Supreme Court case exactly on point that says a public official's First
Amendment rights are not violated if he is censured for not following the rules of the
official body of which he is a member.
In terms of the First Amendment rights, the one argument that I think is most offensive
to me is the idea that his First Amendment rights are being violated because he could be
censured for chasing down a public employee with his lights flashing on and off and his
horn blaring, wildly gesturing to that employee to pull over. That's not just an ethics
violation; that's a crime. In the State of Arizona, if you put somebody in reasonable fear
of imminent harm by your conduct, that's an assault. And I suggest that, if another
citizen had done the same thing, they would have been arrested and charged.
The council can't order Mr. Skillicorn to stop doing what he's been doing, and we know
that he won't stop. He really kind of relishes this kind of negative attention and acting
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like he's a hero and a champion of free speech and conservative principles, but the fact
that he won't be deterred should not deter you from doing your job, following the code
of ethics, and finding that he has indeed violated them. You can do that.
The only thing we as residents can do is to beg him to please stop. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Madicyn Reid. On deck, Christopher Enos, and the final
speaker is Kim Wolborsky.
REID: Hi. My name is Madicyn Reid. I'm a Fountain Hills resident. I'm here to share my
disappointment in this response to the line of questioning by Councilman Skillicorn. Any
decision you make as a town council is subject to public questioning. The questions
representatives ask are a reflection of the questions we would ask. We elect
representatives to take on the responsibility of communicating these inquiries for us
because we cannot always be present. They should be answered.
Instead, we are threatening punishment on the one who asked. Decisions of this
magnitude should honestly only be made after holding town halls with public
information hearings where all the data is public and concerns like potential conflicts of
interest can be uncovered and avoided. This is how we keep our system honest.
You are not a board of directors; you are a board of representatives and it's important
that representatives first listen carefully and then act carefully. In our inspirational
thought shared during the prayer moment it was said, Fountain Hills would become its
best self through logic, reasoning, and empathy, and I would add discussion. I hope this
council will respect the need for discussion on all the important decisions we trust you
to make. No questions pertaining to a decision being made by our representatives
should be considered inappropriate.
I must address the woman who felt it is correct to not allow a self-defense from
Skillicorn. In what world do we as a society not allow an individual to be involved in
their own defense? This is absurd. Whether you feel he is guilty or not, to deny a
defense is un-American and, honestly, a disgraceful stance to take as a human being.
Allen, you are a hero and a champion of free speech. Keep fighting for the right to
discussion. That's the way we get to the solutions that are best for the community, is by
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hearing both sides honestly, openly, and candidly. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Before Christopher starts, I just want to say that we did have -- Kim will
not be the last person. Richard Sauer will be. Okay?
ENOS: All right, folks. Here we go. I'm here with regard to what's known on your
report -- very able report by counsel. It's report number 3. Because I have actually
something to say about it. It's not an opinion; it's fact. Number one, this is the report
with regard to the meeting at which time the zoning was conducted -- the rezoning.
There are two things. First of all, after I saw -- I learned about this a couple of days ago.
After I saw the allegations I said, what? And I went back and looked at the tape. And
specifically on the tape I noted two things. First of all, Councilwoman Kalivianakis was
absolutely right to go out and do her own investigation. That's what a councilperson is
supposed to do. They're not supposed to sit there and just take information that's
handed to them. They're entitled, if not have a duty, to go out and undertake their own
investigation.
Secondly, Councilman Skillicorn was right to ask questions and the -- ever since seventh
grade when I asked the young lady about something and she said, no, I learned that
although questions can sometimes be embarrassing, it doesn't nevertheless reflect upon
your ability to ask these questions. And all he did was ask anybody here, talk with the
developer. And there were some other questions, but they're questions. So keep in
mind that you're council people. You're not in a situation where you are required to sit
there mute and only accept what others say. You're entitled and should ask questions.
You are entitled and should investigate. This particular report should not be
countenanced by this council overall, lest your own abilities to question and/or
investigate in the future be restricted.
This report has a chilling effect on the ability of people to do their jobs as council people
and that cannot be permitted. Secondly, there are due process considerations which I
won't go into. I would hesitate to say that this would not fly in a court of law. I asked
for and didn't receive anything that said what the councilman was accused of or what
the evidence was. So the only one I can address the other item -- the other report
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regarding after sign. But I have to say there are more important things for us to do.
There are more important things for you to consider. This will set a bad precedent. I
would recommend, since I looked at the ethics and it does not deal with this specifically,
that you revisit that and dismiss this by reason of being vague and inappropriate.
WOLBORSKY: Madam Mayor, council, I'm Kim Wolborsky. I'm a resident of Fountain
Hills and, as always, thrilled to be resident of Fountain Hills. I did not plan to speak
tonight, so I don't have anything prepared. So this is going to be one of my F speeches,
not one of my As or Bs -- I don't know if I made an A yet.
But anyway, I am one of the over 4,000 voters who voted for Councilmember Skillicorn,
and I'm still extremely pleased with my vote because, as was spoken earlier much more
eloquently, Councilmember Skillicorn has voted on the issues as I would like him to vote.
He has done what I like. So it's important to me. He's one of my council people. You're
all my council people, but he represents my beliefs. So I read over the list of what the
different sanctions are that are available to you, and I'm a little afraid to say anything
because last time I spoke up, you guys all voted completely against what I spoke, which
is fine.
But anyway, I would be extremely disappointed and unhappy if one of the sanctions was
that Councilmember Skillicorn had to miss a meeting. His vote should definitely not be
taken away over any of this. It's important to me. I expect it's important to a lot of
other voters in this town. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Richard?
SAUER: I thank you for letting me speak. I feel like I'm one of the first that started
Fountain Hills. I moved here in 1977 and I think there were two houses on my street.
This is a beautiful town. I love it. But I got tangled into some of the things that I thought
were wrong in my duration here. I'm a retired aeronautical engineer by title. I had a
technical degree, but I was hired as one immediately. I'm a pilot and I also still teach
aviation at ASU. Next semester I'll have a 100 students, and I love every minute of it.
And I love this community. But I have to say that I am standing by Allen. I voted for him
and my problem is, I don't think -- and I'm not going to accuse anybody, but I don't think
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anybody really signed this civility checklist and are living to it. Okay? I think we're
letting political ideals get in your way.
Now, I fought against these in the past. The power that be, the first one was the school
board. That was the only thing we had. And when I got done with those people, they all
voted the way they didn't want to vote. And as a result, before we had a high school,
our kids were in Scottsdale and out in the area were the gang fights that my daughter
was afraid of, were going on.
That followed with a second thing that I got involved in, and you know what? I can't
even remember what it was. That's the problem with age. I tell that to my students.
But I did look at what Allen Skillicorn is supposed to have done and I think a lot of it --
well, I know some of the people involved because their previous predecessors, I had to
face some of them, okay? And I believe what he says. Somebody taking signs, even
though there's some kind of mild violation -- and I read these articles in the newspaper.
I stopped reading newspapers in 1968, okay, because they don't' tell the truth.
But our local newspaper did. And the man that ran it, I knew him very well and he was
an honest man. And when I was running for school board -- which by the way, I was told
if I did run and win, my wife would lose her job as a teacher because it would be a
violation of some doggone rule which never made sense to me. I suppose I could have
backed out and not voted if she was involved. But bottom line is -- and as you can see
this is a contemporaneous speech because I wasn't really prepared to do it until
yesterday -- was that --
MAYOR DICKEY: Sir, could you -- I'm sorry. But we're sticking with the three minutes.
So could you just wrap up?
SAUER: Okay. I've exceed it already?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. But if you have one other thing to say. Go ahead.
SAUER: Yeah. I had one thought. What I felt was all of the things that were said about
Allen, especially him leaving with his tail between his legs in Illinois, I thought that was
despicable. I don't know who came up with those kind of ideas and things.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
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SAUER: Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is that it, Linda, for speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: That's it for comment on this item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Before we discuss as a council, I just wanted to mention
that I understand that Councilman Skillicorn, while he's not able to participate as a
council person, that he does have the opportunity to speak on behalf of himself and this
would be the time to do that if you'd like.
SKILLICORN: I'll waive that.
MAYOR DICKEY: You're waiving that? Okay. Because this would be the only time,
because once we start, it's -- okay.
Any comments right now?
GRZYBOWSKI: If I may start? First thing I would like to do is read from the January 17
verbatim minutes. I keep getting accused of calling our town residents RWAs. And I
need to read from the minutes because that is not what happened. The minutes were
included in both today's agenda as well as the last meeting's agenda. And they say on
page 84 of the minutes -- these are my words -- I have both listened to the audio and
made sure that it is indeed accurate here. It says, "Take a second and think about how
you define riff-raff or how you define those people. Good news, our reputation
precedes us and they don't want to live here. They don't want to live with us. To them
we are those people. To them we are RWAs." Page 84 of the minutes, if you'd like to
look at them yourself.
I just wanted to do that. Can I carry on? Okay.
So another thing I wanted to do was give you guys a quick reminder about my
background. I'm sure many of you didn't pay any attention when I ran, so I'm going to
go ahead and tell you right now. Prior to owning and managing our gym, I was a
compliance analyst for a major insurance company for four states and the District of
Columbia. To call this a political stunt is deflecting from the real issue.
We have a code of ethics policy that was violated. The current code of ethics was
written and approved by council just last year in 2023. One of these complaints
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originated by an action where he violated the town's sign ordinance, the very sign
ordinance that he helped to rewrite and we approved in 2023.
Had he not violated the town's sign code ordinance, the confrontation would not have
happened with the code enforcement officer. Most likely none of this would have
happened. I am not politically motivated. If I wanted to make this political, I would
have contacted the press. I would have given them statements. I would have made
social media posts, and I would have volunteered to be interviewed by the nice lady
that's actually back there recording us today. Thank you for being here. I didn't do any
of that.
One other thing I definitely wanted to get across before I move this on to somebody
else. I put asterisks here so I wouldn't do this. A couple of times people commented
that he didn't have a chance to defend himself. I'm going to remind you that after each
incident he could have apologized -- after the first incident, he could have apologized to
the town code enforcement officer. He chose not to do so. It came out in the paper.
He could have then made a statement, whether publicly or privately, apologized to the
town code enforcement officer. He chose not to do so.
After each incident he had an opportunity to defend himself. He had an opportunity to
apologize. He chose not to do so. Again, the investigator called him. I assume he was
interviewed by the way the paperwork is written up. He, again, had an opportunity to
defend himself. He, again, had an opportunity to apologize and he did not do so.
Thank you for the time, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Yeah, I have more of a statement I'd like to make, and after we've had a brief discussion
of what's going on tonight, so I'll save it for now. But I just want to condense this to
something very short and very simple to understand. On that night -- and I filed my
ethics violation on the code enforcement officer. Sharron did the other. When that
happened, in my estimation, Councilmember Skillicorn hunted down our code
enforcement officer like a dog catcher would have gone after a stray dog. The code
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enforcement officer felt -- and this is from the reports -- that he was in danger. He fled
to the sheriff's office because he felt he was in danger at the time that he stopped the
car. These are not contested facts. Allen went to go in his car to remove his sign.
So you pull somebody over and you go to get into their car. Then when the deputy gets
involved, you lie twice to the deputy officer. Is that what we do to law enforcement
when we're stopped? We come up with the first convenient lie and then after
questioning, then we confess, yeah, we lied?
That's not acceptable, guys. I don't care what side of the aisle. This is not politically
charged. They say why is this going to this level, Brenda? Why are you taking it to this
level? If Allen would have said, hey, I looked back at that tape, I look pretty bad, I'm
sorry, we wouldn't be here right now, folks. We'd be discussing some other agenda
item that would help our community and do right by our citizens. We're here because
he doubled -down on very bad behavior.
Now stay with me. Section 8.4 states that the council shall be dedicated to the highest
ideals of honor, ethics, and integrity in all public and personal relationships. Does the
characterization and the facts I presented to you tonight that are not in dispute, is that
the acts of an honorable -- I won't say person, but an act. And I will say on that night he
fell short of what we expect from our public officials, and all he had to do was own it
and it would be done.
I think that we respect our law enforcement, and when they stop us and when we made
a mistake, you don't lie to them. You tell them the truth. So I'd like to address this
more later, but I just had to get that out. This isn't that complicated, and I think -- I
don't care what side of the aisle you're on, right now we just say, yeah, he had a bad
day. He got mad. I put those same signs up and I remember I used to get mad at those
same officers too, so I get the anger. But you don't hunt them down and employ self-
help to get your sign back. And if you did thing -- the sign ordinance was
unconstitutional -- again, you don't employ self-help. You go to put it on the agenda to
repeal an unconstitutional ordinance, which I don't think he ever did. He never tried to
fix the unconstitutional principles of the very ordinance he said was not constitutional
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and he serves on the town council. I don't think he made mention to our town manager
that I think we have a law on the books that isn't constitutional.
Self-help in this world is dangerous. Pulling over people in cars and trying to enter it, if
it wasn't for our code enforcement officer -- he got real lucky because there's a lot of
violence out there. So he pulled over the right person and there was no violence. But
what he did was wrong.
And I'm sorry, Allen, you should have just said, I'm wrong.
MCMAHON: Thank you. You know, I sit up here and I listen to your comments and I
appreciate them. But I do want to say that this is not politically motivated. It's based on
Skillicorn's conduct. That's all it's based on. We have obligation as a council through
our rules of procedure and code of ethics to address a situation like this when there's
been a violation of the code of ethics.
So to paint it as being something else is wrong in my opinion. It's a privilege and an
honor to serve up here as a councilmember and to have your trust. We uphold our code
of ethics to the highest standards of our office and conduct ourselves to maintain the
integrity of our office and public confidence. Unfortunately, we are here tonight to
address conduct found to be unbecoming by Councilmember Skillicorn and, as set forth
in our rules of procedure, hold him accountable for our code of ethics and under state
law and, possibly, discipline him for sustained code of ethics violations.
And the first one involves, Peter, one of our code enforcement officers. And when
Councilmember Skillicorn took his oath a year ago, he pledged to represent our town in
the highest standards fitting an elected official, while protecting the town and its
employees, which he serves. This pledge must be adhered to at all times, not just when
it's egotistically or politically convenient for him to do so. And we are here tonight to
hold him accountable for his dangerous actions towards Peter.
This incident involves a temporary sign, a temporary sign illegally placed. And this isn't
the first incident involving Skillicorn and a temporary sign. Because when he was
running for election, one of his temporary signs placed illegally was removed and he
came to town and he yelled and screamed at town employees, demanding that sign be
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returned to him. He ended up being escorted from town hall as a result of his
aggressive conduct.
Bu this incident involving Peter is much more dangerous and has been stated, Mr.
Skillicorn is aware of the sign ordinance. We've reviewed it ad nauseum, five times
under his urging. He knows what the sign ordinance entails and where to place signs.
He had a tracing device -- in fact, he had a tracing device on this sign. So to me, he was
just lying in wait for it to be taken. And when it was removed, he was on it. He was
speeding to town to find out and to follow who took that sign. We all know, and I've
heard the word, road rage. Road rage is an aggressive or angry behavior that includes
rude and verbal insults, yelling, physical threats, or dangerous driving methods targeted
at other drivers in an effort to intimidate or release frustration. Road rage can lead to
altercations, damage to property, assaults, and collisions that result in serious physical
injuries, even death.
You know, based on the facts and what I've seen -- and seen and heard, this -- to me,
this is road rage. He tried with his car to run Peter, our code enforcement officer, off
the road by flashing his high beams and almost ramming the bumper of his car for two
miles. This intense, reckless, aggressive disregard for Peter's safety placed Peter in fear
of his own safety and life to such a degree he drove to town, to the Maricopa County
Sheriff's Office, and Peter is a retired police officer. He was scared.
Skillicorn also, in driving for two miles, must recognize the fact that it's a white town car
with a town emblem. So he knew he was following a town employee. He has a duty to
protect them.
And also, once at town hall -- and this is on tape with the Maricopa County sheriff's
body cam. He could have taken a safer action and just walked up to Peter, talked to him
about his sign, and asked for it to be returned. He didn't. Instead, he approached Peter
at a quick pace and loud, aggressive tone, demanding to give him back his sign. He also
tried to break into Peter's car and retrieve the sign. And the officer, Ofc. Limb, called
him out on it. It's on the video.
He continued to verbally walk towards -- and aggressively walk towards them, Peter and
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the deputy, and said you guys are skating on thin ice. When asked by Dep. Limb about
his reckless driving and attempt to run Peter off the road, he lied. He denied
aggressively and dangerously pursuing a town employee, but the officer called him out
on it and he had to admit that he was lying. Again, all of this is on a body cam.
So to me, this type of conduct over a sign and this type of conduct as a councilmember,
who's supposed to represent and keep our town safe, is egregious. It's done purely to
bully, intimidate, and inflict fear in Peter who was merely doing his job. His lying to the
deputy when he was caught in the act demonstrates a lack of credibility and inability to
hold public confidence or have respect for our officers. The code of ethics provides that
we need to set positive example of good citizenship and scrupulously observe the letter
and the spirit of the law, also to affirm the dignity and worth of services rendered by the
town government and maintain a deep sense of social responsibility as a trusted public
servant; it goes on and on. And it's unfortunate that we're even here to have to address
this tonight.
You know, the attorney was an independent investigator. And she found -- I do not
believe that such actions affirm the dignity and worth of the services rendered by the
town government and maintain a deep sense of social responsibility as a public service
about Skillicorn. His conduct alone has been found to violate these ethics, be
unbefitting a councilmember, and really, seriously, has gotten to the point that have to
take action to protect our town and its employees. It's also our responsibility to provide
closure for Peter and to hold Skillicorn accountable for his egregious acts by possibly
imposing sanctions. And in addition, there's another ethics complaint filed against him
for his actions at a council meeting where he purposefully and intentionally made
slanderous comments to us, found to be in violation. We need to be dedicated to the
highest ideals of honor, ethics, and integrity in all of our public and personal
relationships, engage in constructive conversations and debates, and avoid personal
attacks or derogatory language and refrain from making disparaging remarks about
other councilmembers and verbal attacks about their character or motives. Again, he
has been found to be in violation of that. He came to the meeting with the
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disingenuous intent to use his official position for his express political purpose to
manipulate and disrupt the vote at the Target Center development.
As found by the reviewing attorney, no matter how Skillicorn tried to fake the sincerity
of his purported questions to us, he wrongly used his position to personally convey
unsubstantiated character assassinations of me and other councilmembers based on
rumors of having ex parte conversations with Target Center developer, trying to
influence and get bribes and contributions for our campaign in order for the developer
to receive favorable vote. This absolutely did not happen, and I believe that was
conveyed that night by me and my comment.
I take my oath as a councilwoman with conviction and integrity. I took exception to
what I believed and felt was Skillicorn's inappropriate, baseless, and as I said, vulgar
accusations against me, and I told him so at the time. I stand on my comment.
Since being on council, I have observed Skillicorn and I don't believe he has
demonstrated a lack of remorse or inability to conduct himself in a manner befitting a
councilmember. In fact, he proudly calls himself the agent of chaos and posts this
moniker on social media. His social media posts and photos have denounced and
condemned certain people in our town, unfortunately. They stated lies, misstatements,
denounced the mayor, amongst other things.
You know, I've been going door to door, talking to people from my campaign and a lot of
them are complaining. Unfortunately, they're complaining about his conduct. They
want us to do something about it, and we have to. He's brought it before us in such a
manner that we have to address it. You know, also around -- I attend board meetings
and other meetings with colleagues. They keep asking what's going on. Our reputation
is being sullied. And as for -- I just think that this is not a political matter. This is based
on conduct, and I'm really hoping that you see that he is not the victim. He's the bully in
my opinion, and something needs to be done about this because he's hurt a lot of
people. So I hope tonight we will do something about it within our power and address
his disingenuous conduct and insatiable appetite for negative attention and negative
press. Thank you.
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FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor.
It's funny that integrity and conduct are two words that have been used up here, when
this council sat here and violated our own rules of procedure and had this on an open
agenda item on March 5th. Where was the integrity? Where was the conduct, I ask.
Listen, it's no secret I'm not a fan of Allen's arrogant, bullying, rude style, but did it
escalate to a fact of an ethics violation? This town received a letter from an attorney on
March 5th outlining actions that will be taken against this town and the town council. I
got that letter yesterday. For two weeks this letter sat somewhere. I'm disappointed in
the fact that it wasn't disseminated earlier. I got ahold of legal advice myself, so my
attorney has told me what I need to do, but I do have a few statements I want to make.
Again, I don't condone his style at all. Just because you can do something doesn't mean
you should. The mayor put this on a regular agenda item, when the process for the
ethics violations have always been in an executive session. This could have all been
dealt with in the last council meeting had we done this according to our own rules of
procedure for the town.
The code is very specific. It states, in fact, that this process is to be conducted in an
executive session unless requested otherwise, which happened a little bit earlier today
by the accused.
Some people think that past ethics violations in this town have been handled in an open
session. That is not the case. I have personally verified that with former
councilmembers, several of them. This is also in direct conflict with -- I believe it was
Richard who brought up the checklist, the civility checklist from the town's own paper.
There are several things in there: take the high road, be respectful, set a good example.
Are we doing that here tonight?
This is the sixth meeting we've had where we're disrupted. When do we get to the town
business, is what I ask. I have an idea. Let's do this in two days. Let's hold a civility
seminar here in town. This council, there are four of us that are seeking future office in
this town. Three of them are on this dais right now that are going to be supporting this
effort Thursday night at the community center. Rules for me but not for thee. We're
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going to tell you how to be civil, but we don't act that way ourselves up here, and I'm
including myself in that when I say that. So I have a problem with that. It's not a good
example.
It's past time now that we get on to the town business. There should be no inhibition to
this council to do its job. On advice from my legal counsel, I will not be voting in support
of any sanctions against Councilman Skillicorn. I'm sorry I had to reach out to legal
counsel, but I respect my counsel, and I will follow his advice.
Thank you, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm going to see if --
TOTH: Madam Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm going to see if Hannah has anything.
Councilwoman, yes. Yes, Councilwoman Toth?
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. You read my mind.
I fully disagree with the process by which this issue has been handled. Last meeting,
despite the claim that this was completely legal, we were objectively on a path to
violate our own council policy. And thank you to the member of the public who cited
the exact lines of that. For the sake of making a further public spectacle of an elected
member of this body this week, prior to the councilmember's request to make this
solely public, the mayor had already placed this item on both the executive session and
public meeting agenda. When, once again, it was brought to her attention that this has
not ever been automatically on a public agenda, the response we, as a council, received
stated that it needs to be on an agenda for formal action and that, because formal
action was not taken on former complaints such as Councilmember Spelich or Magazine
times two, there were not -- they were not on a public agenda. Now, I believe this
therefore raises the question how did we know that formal action would be taken
before we had discussed any of these violations? Furthermore, it has been made very
clear that this does not simply concern the violations at hand but appears to have
become a trial of Skillicorn as a whole, like his entire personality. And therefore,
although it is clear that this vote is already decided, I will be a no vote on anything to do
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with this issue. I am absolutely baffled by how far this has spiraled, and I find this entire
situation embarrassing for everyone involved.
Not that long ago, I quoted in a meeting a few verses that felt relevant to a change in
how our meetings would be conducted, and those same verses ring true today. And I
have to say that there's so much of me that is grateful that, considering the bizarre way
this process has been handled and what this conversation has devolved to behind closed
doors, that this entire discussion has been in the public eye. I believe this town can
judge for themselves who has condescended to the public and who is standing on
principle. But again, I'll be a no vote on anything to do with this.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Yeah, just to weigh in, just very briefly on what my attorney friend and colleague Chris
Enos said. And that is, for the first thing is, I appreciate your recognizing that, when I
attempted to get the parking agreement from the folks who are building the Target
Center project, it was because I was doing that to try to protect the people, to make
sure that they were promising what they deliver. And there was some of the people in
our community said, are you sure they even have a parking agreement? And so I
worked really hard. I said, at this town council meeting, I was going to get that
produced. That was one of the things I told Councilmember Friedel when we talked
privately. I said, if they don't produce what they said they have, I'm a no vote on this
thing. And so they did produce it, and now I'm being looked to be vilified, like I'm
having private communications. It wasn't a private communication whatsoever. They
reached out and said, Brenda, is this your email address? And I reached out and I said,
yes. And they said, okay, here's the parking agreement. To vilify that is just beyond the
pale. And so I wanted to get that out.
And thank you, Chris.
I also agree with Chris, that if during that night that Allen spoke, on the 17th, about the
exchange of money and the communications, if he had handled just slightly differently, I
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wouldn't have had any problem with it. He did open the conversation, asking our town
attorney if this was a quasi-judicial or legislative process. The town attorney at that
time -- I reviewed the tape, like we all have -- said, no, it's legislative in nature. It was
not ambiguous. Our town attorney said it's legislative. And so ex parte communications
would not even be relevant -- we have a couple attorneys here. That's for judicial
proceedings that pertain to judges and having communications with other attorneys. So
he threw that out there, which I don't think was in good faith, because there was
nothing -- it had nothing to do with those type of communications. And then he
mentioned, did we get any campaign contributions? If he would have left it at that, I
agree with Chris. But if you look at the tape -- and maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm not
interpreting it correctly, and if so, I apologize. But when I look at that tape, he made the
insinuation, that because you've had these inappropriate communications and because
you've greased the skids with money, that this wasn't happen in the normal process.
That it was handled with less transparency than we're used to, and it was also rushed
along. That was very unusual for a project like this.
And so the insinuation was not just did you have any communications and did he give
you any campaign contributions. It was more sinister than that. And the sinister part
was in the nuance. I invite you to go back and look at the tape. So once again,
Councilmember Skillicorn is just walking that line of just knowing when to take it back
and when to just push that line a little too far. That night, he did push the line too far, in
my opinion.
And then lastly, what I'd like to address is this concept of this being a partisan witch
hunt and how his political opponents are using this council to bludgeon him, and the
many other statements that he's made that I think we're all aware of. I would just like
to remind Allen that it was myself and him and Hannah. We're on a ticket together. I
was aware of his background in Illinois that was a little questionable. But when I first
met him and he gave a speech at the Fountain Hills Republican Club three years ago, he
said, I left Illinois, it was a cesspool, and I got the hell out of there, Brenda, and the
whole group. And he said, and I'm here in Fountain Hills, and it's friendly and it's civil
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and it's safe and it's low taxes. And Sheriff Joe, I see you in the audience tonight. I think
you recalled that speech because you looked at me and he said, Brenda, I don't like you
when he calls it Mayberry, because that's what he called it. We're like Mayberry. I
didn't like the reference either. I don't think we're like Mayberry. We got better law
enforcement than they had. Anyway. So all due respect to Barney Fife
And so I handed out those cards for him. When I thought at the end -- when I thought
Cindy might win the election, me and Hannah and Allen put together a mailer. We
spent $3,000. We sent a political mailers to everybody that was not decided and hadn't
voted, and I think we -- and I'm partly responsible -- got him over the finish line and he
did win. And I was proud of that, and we got a lot done. And a matter of fact, when
Allen himself just recently spoke to the press, he said instead of celebrating victories for
our town, like bringing back the invocation prayer, firing the taxpayer -funded lobbyists,
banning mask mandates, and defeating a massive tax hike, some people would rather
waste town time and money on politically charged vendettas.
But I would remind Allen that I voted with him in every single one of those items. I was
with you on that. And so now to say that I have some kind of a politically charged
vendetta against him, I find that offensive. Because I think that he takes a lot of good
votes, and I've supported Allen, and I'm not going to sit here and try to hide from that. I
own it and I wear the T-shirt. But don't accuse me of being politically charged. I didn't
like what I saw the day that you did what you did to our code enforcement officer. I
have a duty to stick up to the people in this town, to the staff in this town, and to my
fellow councilmembers, and I thought you went too far.
You do have a tendency to be pretty rough on town staff, and it can be really
demoralizing. And you are pretty hard on the people that you don't agree with
politically, too. You're very good at it.
And attacking the council and impugning our integrity, I just think was just a step too
far. And like I already explained, I think the insinuation was we were corrupt. And so
again, instead of apologizing and just moving on, we find ourselves here. But to say that
I put us here or we put us here, let's just -- it's -- it's you put us here, Allen, because of
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your conduct. You have to take responsibility, not us.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
I want to talk a little bit about the process aspect of it. So in concert, yes, with Vice
Mayor Kalivianakis and with Councilmember Grzybowski, I lawfully and appropriately
placed discussion of the police and investigators reports, which also included important
complaints that didn't lead to a guilty finding. But that is in our agenda. And I put it on
a public agenda for possible action, and indeed, a public meeting is the only place where
action can occur.
In addition, a move to censure a council person is not predicated by that member being
found guilty of an ethical violation, but by other members wanting to convey their
disapproval of certain behaviors in an official way. Censure provides a public record of
action taken to correct alleged or established misconduct, which can also be important
should any future behavior become the subject of litigation.
This is unprecedented in a lot of ways. Sustained findings in the past didn't require
votes by the council in order for the consequence or the apology to be carried out. As
has been noted, though, Councilman Skillicorn has decided that he wanted this to only
be discussed in public. So this is what's happening right now. I'm not going to agree
that I'm an uncivil person. I've never acted in an uncivil way. And I will say we did take
action in the past, a long time ago, when we had a ruling against us for a open meeting
or like a executive session violation. We voted to accept the ruling and then we had City
of Phoenix attorney come and school us on what we did wrong. So we have done this
publicly.
And the other item -- well, and again, it's was public and the other ethical complaints
that were brought up were very much discussed in public. Whether there was an
executive session before or not is moot. At this point, though, there have been several
complaints lodged for acting in ways not acceptable to our ethics code that we do agree
to follow when we take our oath of office -- ethical codes and oaths or statements of
the moral principles that govern the conduct of a group, a profession, or an individual.
Doctors, lawyers, corporations, teachers, and more share that high bar with us. So
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these two complaints, attempting to pull over a town employee and casting doubt on
the integrity of the council and also the whole town process and the staff involved, were
upheld by outside counsel and has been mentioned that the selection of that attorney is
a routine matter. The claims that the attorney was handpicked by the mayor to thwart
or silence anybody are completely false.
Statements made that the mayor and council would have responded about taking the
money if we had nothing to hide illustrate how those remarks actually caused damage
and caused suspicion upon us and on the developers and on staff. So the fact that I get
an email saying, why didn't you just answer, shows that the motivation -- or maybe not
the motivation, but the result of that cast aspersions and suspicion on all of us, including
the developers and our staff.
And ex parte, I'll bring that up. It's a term, as Brenda mentioned, that doesn't apply to
our procedures. But if we want to indulge it a little bit about what it means, the council
did have thorough information. We had conversation pro and con. It was not one sided
at all, and we listened to a lot of testimony that night as well in order to make the
decision one way or the other. There's no reason or evidence to say any of those things
and make council, staff, and applicants look guilty of something that was absolutely not
true. So I do agree that that one is a violation.
The interaction with the code and law enforcement officers was unethical, in my
opinion, as well as part of a pattern, as it was mentioned, of what I see as ill treatment
of staff and disparaging remarks, untrue assertions about their actions and their motives
in several departments in this town hall. This has caused distress for them and for the
community.
When asked by a Channel 12 reporter right immediately after the last meeting about
being aware of the the fact that the code enforcement officer felt threatened, you said, I
think it's -- councilman said, I think it's ridiculous. Again, this was a former police officer,
a police officer that was trained to recognize risks and also how to react to them and to
report accordingly. And then that was confirmed by a current law enforcement person.
The response on the news is not what I would consider backing our first responders.
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I believe that it is time for this council to take disciplinary action against Councilman
Skillicorn to ensure that we collectively do represent our town in a good way. I know
that there's difference of opinion on this, but there are many, many people who have
been hurt and we represent them just as much as everybody else. It's never a positive
thing for us to be going through something like this with a community, with ethical
issues within their governing body. However, it is our responsibility to acknowledge the
situation and address it seriously, giving our staff and our businesses and all our
residents now and in the future the clear expectation and confidence in all of their
interactions with the town. We were and will be and will continue to be a united,
respectful, inviting family community. We do not have qualifying requirements for
entrance and we certainly will not take abuse from our elected officials without
consequence.
We all value freedom of speech. I know that you've mentioned that and I agree with
you, but it's not an absolute or a comprehensive in every situation. We have to practice
self-control. We have to practice discipline. And that's necessary in a multitude of
scenarios that you can imagine, airplanes, at a play, just a lot of places. There's no joy or
satisfaction with this at all. This is a disheartening situation and I hope that we can
move beyond it. And at this point, I'd like to ask if there's any motions from any of our
council people?
Councilwoman -- Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
I also want to make just a very brief statement before I make a motion, and that is to
Councilmember Friedel.
I appreciate your statement of record and I understand you. You sought your own legal
counsel, and you're being guided by that tonight. But I also appreciate your statement
about Allen's behavior and supporting the town staff and this council and the residents.
I know this is very politically charged, and I know that that was a very brave thing for
you to do. So thank you. I really appreciate that.
And the emails I received today, which were numerous, many people implored me not
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to fire Allen and follow the will of the voters. And I can tell you right now that is not on
the table, people. This is not an offense that we can remove an elected official. That's
not even on the table. And I just want to address that because a lot of people sincerely
thought that, like what was mentioned tonight in the call that we don't think you should
remove Allen. He was elected. I voted for him. And that's not on the table. And a
matter of fact, I don't even want to remove him from any future meetings, even though
that's something that we have the possibility to do, because, once again, the people
voted for Allen. There's people that like Allen, and they support Allen, and they like his
temperament and they like his views on the way he conducts himself. So I would not
recommend depriving him of sitting with this very council. And like I did state numerous
times, I just hope this is kind of a wake-up call by Allen and we can just work together
again, put this behind us. And like I said, so that wouldn't be -- but what I would
recommend and the motion I would make is that, at a minimum, depending on what
this council thinks, I think he should have a censure in his record. And so I would move
the main motion be for Allen to be censured based on his conduct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second, please?
MCMAHON: I'll second it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Is there any further discussion on that motion? I see none.
Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
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KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Anything further? Any further motions or discussion?
Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Do we do we get specific about the sanctions now?
MAYOR DICKEY: If there's something that you would like to --
MCMAHON: Yes. Thank you.
You know, Allen, it's unfortunate that we're sitting up here and have to do this, but it's
part of our duties as fellow councilmembers. And I would like to, at a minimum, about
Peter, see you write a letter of apology to him, for one thing.
As for conduct with the staff, I've heard negative things about that too. I think that part
of the sanction would be you're not allowed to communicate or be with a staff member
without somebody with you. Also --
Do you want me to keep going, or do you want to do one at a time?
MAYOR DICKEY: You can keep going.
MCMAHON: Okay.
Also, you know about the -- we also have the ability to address leadership positions for a
councilmember that's being sanctioned. There is a Arizona League of Cities and Towns
annual conference every year. I think part of the sanction would be that the town not
pay for his attendance there. While that seems petty, it's not. It's part of a sanction. I
also would like to talk about ,you know, you can prevent, as part of the sanctions,
someone from taking a leadership position who may not have conduct in being a leader.
As everybody knows, we rotate the vice mayorship for a couple of months in rotation.
So I would like to see as a sanction that he not be, for the remainder of his time, eligible
to serve in a leadership position as vice mayor. Those are my suggestions right now.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second?
GRZYBOWSKI: I was just going to ask, is that a motion? So yes, that was a motion. I
second.
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MCMAHON: Yes, it's a motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Are there any amendments or further discussion?
I'd like to just have a clarifying question about the contact. I would agree with physical
contact with staff members but not when it comes to emails and such like that. What
would you --
KALIVIANAKIS: I have a point of order.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry?
KALIVIANAKIS: I have a point of order. I just want to get advice from our attorney.
After we made a motion and it was approved on a split vote, can we make further
motions?
ARNSON: Mayor and council, I think things might have gone a little bit out of turn. We
already had a motion and a second. So unless there's a desire to reconsider -- a motion
to reconsider, which is permitted during this or a subsequent council meeting, then we
can do that and reopen the debate. But otherwise, we had a motion and a vote. So if
you want to do that and backtrack with a motion to reconsider, I would suggest that's
the proper procedure to do it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. But I know -- I thought that the motion to censure -- and then
we could say what that involved afterwards. You're saying we couldn't do that?
ARNSON: Oh, I see what you're saying.
MAYOR DICKEY: We passed the censure and then we voted on --
ARNSON: Well --
MAYOR DICKEY: We didn't vote --
ARNSON: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- but we took a motion to take specific action.
ARNSON: So at this point, Mayor, however you want to handle it, you can go and do a
motion and a second. If you want to get technical about it, just do a motion to
reconsider, second, vote on the motion to reconsider, and then vote on a fresh new
slate of things. A censure including but not limited to -- including the following. Right?
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MAYOR DICKEY: I'm trying to look at the wording. Sanctions and possible censure
against -- so I don't know why we we have to do it that way. But if you're saying that.
Would you like to do that? So does the person who made the first -- or anybody can do
a reconsideration?
ARNSON: Anyone who voted in the affirmative on the motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: And then we'd need a new motion --
ARNSON: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- with everything included and and we can -- it's already been stated.
ARNSON: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: So so the motion to reconsider would be -- you'd need an affirmative
vote?
ARNSON: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So would somebody make a motion to reconsider, please?
MCMAHON: Motion to reconsider.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Yeah. All in favor, please, of the -- I mean, roll call vote to
reconsider, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
KMENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
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MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
Now, can we say, --since Peggy already said all that, can we say that -- can she move
what she previously said, including the censure?
ARNSON: Yes, Mayor.
MCMAHON: I have a question, Aaron. And one of them that I moved for was to not be
with the staff member without somebody. Can I also change that to say that the
communications that he has with staff members be respectful or no?
ARNSON: Mayor --
MCMAHON: That's not enforceable?
ARNSON: Yeah. Mayor and council, I would suggest that we stray from things that have
subjective view to them.
MCMAHON: Okay. I agree. Thank you. So my prior motion and sanctions that I would
like are the same with the exception of that he not be with staff members unless there's
somebody else around -- physically around, that Skillicorn not be allowed to be around
staff members physically unless there is another person present. Thank you.
TOTH: Mayor, may I make a comment?
MAYOR DICKEY: One second, please.
MCMAHON: So please reconsider the censure. Is that --
MAYOR DICKEY: No, just include it with your motion.
MCMAHON: Excuse me. So I include -- it's included with my motion. Whatever the
mayor is saying.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second? You understand that? So the motion was for a
censure and all of those items that she listed.
GRZYBOWSKI: So the motion was for the censure? Cannot be vice mayor, cannot
physically meet with staff member without Rachael, will not use taxpayer money for
him to go to meetings and events like the Arizona League of Cities and Towns; is that
what I understand? Okay. So that was the motion.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: I will second that.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Hannah?
TOTH: Thank you. I know that there was a claim we have the ability to do that with the
vice mayor. Have we ever done that in the past?
MAYOR DICKEY: We've never done any of this in the past.
TOTH: Okay. And furthermore, I have a question regarding the communications with
staff. I understand we made the exception that he'd be able to send emails, but I would
like for the council to very seriously consider if we would like to set the precedent of
disallowing a councilmember to do his homework on issues. I think that conversations
with staff are really, really important to being knowledgeable about the things that we
vote on and I don't think we should limit his ability to do his job. I understand that,
again, this vote has already been decided, but I would really like to encourage my fellow
councilmembers to really consider what we are doing right now.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks, Hannah. I believe that we're not -- it would just be physically,
and it would be that somebody would have to be with him when he was meeting with
somebody physically. Otherwise, any kind of research or emails -- right? Is that good?
Phone calls and such would still be okay.
MCMAHON: Hannah, we're not preventing him from having conversations, doing
research, and carrying out his responsibilities as a councilmember, as Mayor Dickey
clarified.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other?
Oh. Councilmember, sorry.
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor.
I just think that this is punitive beyond words. I mean, yes, we can do these things. I
just think that it's an awful lot for what's going on here. And I think we've really opened
Pandora's box here by oversalting this wound. I had concerns about the communication
as well, because we still need representation and things done in the town. So I'm glad
you clarified that. I think it also puts a little bit more of a burden on the staff to have
somebody physically present. I think he's on notice. I think -- hopefully, he gets this. So
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I think that's going a little bit too far by putting handcuffs on our staff to be present in a
meeting. If we have an issue, then we deal with it. That's just my two cents.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any comments about that or any of this?
GRZYBOWSKI: Actually, just a quick comment. We do have an issue and we are dealing
with it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else?
Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. You might have been better served had
you voted not to do the motion for reconsideration. Because when you voted
affirmatively for that, you opened this up to what we're doing right now.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, this is what we wanted. We want the censure and the sanctions,
and apparently we had to do it all at once, so.
FRIEDEL: It wouldn't have mattered.
MAYOR DICKEY: No, it makes sense. They might have thought we might have had a
change. That makes sense, that you would have done that.
Can we have a roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you very much.
Move on to our next item, which is the discussion of approval of ordinance 24-03
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regarding medical marijuana use.
John? Not use, hours. John. I'm sorry.
WESLEY: I've got to update my presentation.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. I've been requested to have a break. Thanks.
[CLERKS NOTE: COUNCIL RECESSED AT 7:33 P.M. FOR A BREAK AND RECONVENED AT
7:49 P.M.]
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Thanks, John.
WESLEY: Mayor and council, got a short presentation for you this evening and turn it
over to the applicant for further discussion. But we are here to consider an amendment
to Chapter 24 of the zoning ordinance, which is a chapter on medical marijuana
facilities. Council previously discussed this at your January 8th meeting, and that
request that time included a request to change the hours of operation allowed by
ordinance and also to allow for delivery. It was continued for further discussions
between the applicant and community members, particularly to look at other options
within the code. And it comes back to you now with request to remove the provision
for delivery services. That will come back at a future meeting. So this evening, we're
just looking at the text amendment as it deals with changing the hours. Again, the
current hours are from 9 a.m. to 7 p.m. The request is to change those to 7 a.m. to 9
p.m. So a couple hours both ways. I won't go into some of the discussion from last time
about how this compares to other communities. But as part of the negotiation, one of
the concerns for the community, the Protect Our Youth Coalition, was that we do some
things to help provide some protection safeguards to youth in the community. And the
language that's been discussed is shown in the ordinance language that was provided to
you. Been further discussions this evening during the early part of the meeting, and
now proposing some slight changes to the wording that was presented to you. And this
is the revised language that's being recommended at this time or presented to you for
your consideration.
The words that are different are italicized. So in the first line, instead of saying "shall
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offer," it's now "shall include". Added language, "mutually acceptable educational
material" and adding to the end "and protecting our youth". So those are some changes
the applicant and the representatives from the local organization have come up with for
your consideration this evening.
So with that, staff and the planning commission are recommending approval. I can try
to answer any questions that you have, but the applicant has a more thorough
background discussion for some of the language that they have been working, some of
the discussions they have had. I guess, I do want to mention one more thing. It's been
important to representatives of the town to get this language that's being proposed in
the code with regard to providing materials. Ultimately, this is maybe not the best place
in the ordinance for it to be. And so if we do move forward with the other change to
the ordinance with regard to deliveries, you may see us also come back and tweak this a
little bit more, maybe move it someplace else and maybe continue to refine that
language. I just wanted to give you a heads -up on that, that that may happen -- another
-- another text change. So with that, I will close this one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Does anybody have any questions for John before we take public
comments?
WESLEY: We have the applicant's presentation. They're here also.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Any questions for the applicant? You're going to come up and
do that, okay. Hi.
SCHUBE: Hi. Mayor, Vice Mayor, council. Thank you so much. I will try to keep my
comments brief as it's been a long meeting already. Again, Lindsay Schube with the law
firm of Gammage and Burnham. Chloe Plaisance is with me tonight, a land use attorney.
And we don't have Tabitha Myers, our general counsel. We have Steve Cottrell, the CEO
of the company. He came here tonight to show how important this is to he and his
organization. Again, Phoenix Cannabis Company, small local business. This is the only
dispensary that they have in the State of Arizona. It was opened in Fountain Hills on
August 25th, 2023. And they are committed to being a community member. Part of
this, the continuance really did lead us to some great productive conversations. Again
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and quickly, this will have -- if this text amendment is approved -- a very important
operational impact to the dispensary. We anticipate a 40 percent increase in revenue
and a 50 percent increase in daily transactions. And at a minimum, we will double staff.
Because of the hours, we'll have to double our staff.
So at the previous, John said, we were here in January. We were here in January in
front of the planning and zoning commission. We are here in front of you guys and
council on February 6th, again. We had that two-part request. What happened? You
guys continued us. As a result of that, it allowed for an opportunity to get to know
Tammy Bell and to have a lot of communications with the Foundation Hills Protect our
Youth Coalition. And it also allowed us to bifurcate the request at her request. So what
have we done? We've had multiple meetings. Well, one meeting, well, maybe phone
calls, email discussions with the Fountain Hills Protect Our Youth Coalition. You guys do
have a gem in Tammy. It has been actually a pleasure getting to know her and working
with her on this process. She's been very respectful of understanding our business
needs while making sure that she is representing the coalition and helping us
understand the goals and the needs of the coalition. So it really has been great. We
have collaborative -- what have we done? We have collaborative ordinance drafting.
We have collaborated and as much as tonight, like we said, we even changed the
language tonight at the beginning part of the council hearing. And that's what we're
coming forth tonight.
And again, the bifurcation that was at the request of the coalition, and we're very
comfortable with it. We would like to come back for delivery. I think there are some
and I'm not going to stray, town attorney, and talk about something that's not
agendized. But there are some conditions that we can put in delivery that hopefully
people will feel comfortable with. Maybe we come to a study session at some point,
but we know that that's a more detailed conversation. And so out of respect for the
council and the coalition, we're happy to spend some more time working on that.
In the meantime, though, these hours are important. This is a small local business and
these four hours are important to us. So again, what are we asking for? Allow the
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dispensary to operate from 7 a.m. to 9 p.m. And then that additional language that
we've added in, that was at the request of the coalition, but it's something we're
comfortable with. Dispensaries and the coalition are more aligned than one would think
at face value. No one comes in who's under 21. There are a lot of safeties and
safeguards.
So no changes, though, in any of the other zoning requirements or limitations and
nothing tonight with regard to delivery, but we would like to come back on that. So this
is the language. This was the red language. So we just put it right in black because this
is what we feel comfortable with. So again "shall include with each sale, if provided by
the Fountain Hills Protect Our Youth Coalition or successor organization" -- that was
added by your town attorney -- "mutually acceptable educational material pertaining to
the safe storage of marijuana products and protecting youth". That's something that's
important to all of us.
Again, the hours that we are requesting are Tess than a neighboring jurisdiction, like
Scottsdale. As discussed at the planning and zoning commission hearing, there was a
commissioner who discussed something different, something more broad. Again, we
want our narrowly tailored request to match the goals and the goals and the values of
the Town of Fountain Hills.
Again, there are so many safety concerns and that is where I say the coalition and state -
regulated dispensaries are more akin than one would think. There are security plans.
We have licenses that are very important and valuable, 24-hour independent -monitored
security, multiple ID checks. Again, none of these safeguards are in place at liquor
stores, drug stores, vape shops, any of those things. So we really -- our values do align
with the coalition. And frankly, it's been great working with them and hopefully we can
have some continued discussions on on the delivery front.
So I'm here with a unanimous recommendation of approval from planning and zoning
commission. We did have 55 letters of support in with our packet. And then at our
February hearing, there were 13 persons in attendance who registered or who were in
support.
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And it really has been great to collaborate with the coalition. So with that -- and again,
to answer, John said, it's not normal to have both of those two separate subject matters
in the same line. The reason why we need it is because that's how it was noticed, and
so we're very comfortable moving forward with that. At some point if there's another
text amendment in the future, we can -- but we want to make sure that everyone
agreed to what the changes were and what the language was. So with that, I
respectfully request approval.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you very much. I appreciate your willingness to work with the
coalition on the language. I would like -- I think that we're talking about two things
here. We're talking about time. We're talking about the coalition being able to provide
some language about safety, storage of the product that people are purchasing. I think
in that regard, it's not an end. And if you don't mind, could you please switch back to
your language that you changed? Thank you.
And am I allowed to ask Tammy a question?
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, she'll probably come up, right?
MCMAHON: Tammy, are you going to make a statement or no? Okay. I'll wait till you
make your statement, then. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is that it? Do you have any more questions?
MCMAHON: Oh, yeah. So I want to ask you, are you amenable to please changing it to
say, (A) for the time, (B) for the wording? Because I spoke with our attorney and he said
that is possible to have time be one and then the wording for safe use another -- under
the same. Okay. Like section 1-- section 2B say time and C talk about the coalition
providing safe usage language. Because to me, there are two different subjects and I
think that we can vote on them separately. Am I not making myself --
MAYOR DICKEY: Is this what John was talking about? Moving it, changing it, and putting
it in a different section at another time?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, let's see if what I'm hearing anyway is with regard to
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this change tonight, if we simply change it so it says a medical marijuana facility shall,
colon, 1, have operating hours; 2, shall provide the materials. Is that what you're
suggesting?
MCMAHON: Right. Well, I'm suggesting that we separate it for voting purposes.
Because I'm not sure the coalition wants to change the hours, but I know that they want
the use information on packages. So to me, it's two different subjects.
ARNSON: Thank you. Yeah, I think you're voting on just whatever ordinance number
this is. You're voting on this ordinance number, right?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
ARNSON: Yeah. For either an up or down vote. So I mean, there's not two ordinances
separated out in two.
MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, Councilman. Sorry.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. So this is an interesting topic of expanding the
hours for the dispensary. You know, there's a lot of changing thought on this issue. I
know a couple of years ago, Arizona passed this as a voter -initiated ballot initiative. But
I look at Oregon, no right-wing state there. Just about three weeks ago they decided to
re -criminalize drugs because they're seeing crime and blight and just urban disaster
around these policies. And I don't see expanding the hours of this dispensary helping
Fountain Hills. I don't see how more blight -- I don't see how more homelessness -- I
don't see how more crime -- I don't see how more addiction in our town is going to help
us. So I'd like to make a motion to table this.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second to table this item? Okay. So why don't we take some
comment cards, if there are any?
Are there any? Yes.
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, there are. In your packet, there's some written comments
and we have three against and three people for. And then we have one person in who
spoke -- well, wants to just comment in writing that they're for this ordinance. And then
we have Tammy Bell as the only actual speaker on this.
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BELL: Mayor, Vice Mayor, council, staff. I had something proposed and then today
happened, and now it's not exactly the same, but I will try to share what I wanted to
share, at least. As Lindsay had mentioned, we've had a lot of conversations, email, and
phone calls. And while I don't think the coalition and any substance retailer will ever be
completely in agreement of all of their ways, I am going to say that this dispensary has
really shown their willingness to work with Protect Our Youth Coalition, and I appreciate
that.
What you do see tonight on this ordinance is language that is including a point of sale
coalition messaging attached to the extended hours ordinance. This was not -- and I
want to make this really clear in public. It was not a quid pro quo. It was not me saying
I'll agree with this if you agree with that. I initially requested the addition of this
language so that if the council decided to go against what the coalition had said about
the hours and expand the hours, we would still have safety mechanisms in place to
share this information with the families here in Fountain Hills. So we believe that
providing a point of sale message regarding safe storage of marijuana and its harm to
youth, given directly to those purchasing marijuana, can make a great impact by
reducing unintentional harm in youth access. Having this message of this nature in an
ordinance is a clear statement that Fountain Hills is and will be -- approach legal
substance sales with integrity and with care.
So the language has now changed. Some of the words that my board was concerned
with have reversed. I do want to say that the coalition is in favor with including this
language and is agreeable to work with the legal substance retailers just like this
dispensary to protect our youth. We do that in this way by saying that by the code
saying we will include the language -- it used to say offer. So this is making more of a
statement that it will be included in every sale, that Protect Our Youth has agreed to
provide this language for them. We will pay for whatever the sticker tab looks like that
will go on every sale. And we've already found a bit of some wording that we both are
agreeable to, so I'm not concerned that we won't find something that we agree to. And
they also added protecting our youth, which was obviously my major. I want people to
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be safe. I want them to know how to store their cannabis that they're buying, but they
also want them to know that they have to store it to protect those other people that are
in their families, and Protect Our Youth has already created a website specifically for this
reason -- and I can't show you because I'm not presenting. But we did go forward and
move forward with another web page that is specific to the storage, for this reason.
MAYOR DICKEY: You can stay there if we ask you a question. So I'll ask you something.
This language would be provided by you, correct, or by the coalition?
BELL: Mutually agreed upon by us. Yes. We would work with --
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
BELL: -- with them for the language. I have copies of the one language that we just kind
of -- they agreed to --
MAYOR DICKEY: Put together? Yeah.
BELL: Yeah. So you know what? Something like this. It says, "Natural does not equal
safe for kids. A cactus is natural but not necessarily child friendly. Same goes for
cannabis. Cannabis impacts a child's brain differently than an adult. Secure your
cannabis." So something similar to that, that would go directly to our web page, that is
called secure your cannabis or secure your marijuana.
MAYOR DICKEY: Your webpage is on there, you said? So you're actually mentioned on
there? Okay.
BELL: The first draft is on -- is already up on our web page for it. Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
BELL: So that they could see it. I showed them today.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Any questions for Tammy or anybody? No?
Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. No. I just want to say that we discussed this, I think, at a ribbon
cutting. And I just want to thank you for all the work that you guys have both done. I
think the decision by us to carry this over for a month proved to bear fruit. It sounds
like it's a really good synergy between the coalition and the legal business. And I've
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always run on a pro -business platform. Of course, keeping in mind that we want to
protect our citizens and the kids. But I applaud you both, the law firm and the coalition,
for working together and getting this worked out. And so I'd like to move to approve
ordinance 24-03.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can we get a second?
FRIEDEL: I'll second that. And I also want to say thanks for working together. It was a
good idea to table this. And so everybody had input. So thank you.
That was a second, by the way.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Okay. I think we're ready for a roll call.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Our next item is about home occupation. So that's probably you, again, John, too.
Thank you all.
WESLEY: Mayor, councilmembers. Yes. Next presentation for your discussion and
consideration this evening, there are some amendments to our zoning ordinance having
to do with home occupations. There's one companion amendment also in the town
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code. So our residential zoning districts do allow for home occupations. They are
defined in section 1.12. And then the main regulations are provided in section 5.14.
They haven't been updated for a number of years. And whereas technology's change,
types of activities going on change a little bit, we found that the current codes aren't
fully addressing some of the situations that we are facing, and therefore we have
prepared this text amendment for your consideration.
So I can go through each of these. Mayor, I think probably best if anybody has questions
as we talk about each one, maybe instead of trying to come back at the end, if that's
okay with you. So we can do that.
So the first change is in the definition itself. This is a pretty simple one and just kind of
gets the ball rolling a little bit in terms of our definition of what a dwelling is. Adding in
that it's being used as a single-family residence, because one of the issues we have is a
home that we can't really find anybody who's actually living there to be a home. So that
the activities can't really say that they're home -based businesses. But anyway, so
adding this definition that we'll expected a residence to be used or a dwelling to be used
as a single-family residence, we think, again, gives us a little bit of teeth later on with
some of the other regulations. And then the other definition is for home occupation
itself. So adding a little language in there, again, clarifying what we're looking for in
terms of home occupation. And then taking out some of the language. It's actually
some of the regulations that are in 5.14. Can be a challenge when you have regulations
and a definition, and then plus having them two different places in the code, remember
to keep them both updated. So taking the regulation part out, just focusing on the
definition.
Then moving into 5.14 itself. One of the things that came up in discussions with the P
and Z is that as we get into more situations of mixed use with residential happening in
commercial zones, right now it was limited to dwellings in residential zones. So we're
clarifying that any dwelling unit that has a -- got to have a home occupation. And then
moving on into some of the basic standards. Home occupation shall be conducted only
by persons who -- the word here is "reside". The language you have in the code that
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was presented to you said "living". And in some discussions with Councilmember
McMahon, we used reside later on in the code and that really is a better word to use
there. So I just want to point out that what I'm presenting this evening has that one
word difference, "reside" instead of "living" at that point.
Anyway, the emphasis here is that the occupation use needs to be conducted in a way
that's incidental to the residential use, that the residential use stays a primary activity,
and you're not really creating any recognizable change in the neighborhood. Then in B,
just added some language again at the beginning for a little more clarification on the 25
percent of gross floor area that can be devoted towards the use. And C, with regard to
employees, should be no employees working at the home. The business can have
employees, but they need to be working someplace else. We might have contractors,
pool cleaning businesses, realtors, that type of thing that maybe they work from the
home and they have others that work under them, and that's fine. They may come to
the home occasionally to pick up an assignment or whatever, but they're not working at
the home.
One of the challenges, again, that we've been having is with some of the vehicular
activity that occurs around a home that is disruptive to the neighborhood. It's not
delivery vehicles, but just the volume of vehicles coming and going with the activity. So
added a little bit more language in the delivery vehicle section.
And then going down to traffic and parking. Currently the ordinance --
MCMAHON: John, excuse me.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry. I think we have some questions.
SKILLICORN: Or maybe --
MAYOR DICKEY: Go ahead, Councilman. I don't know --
SKILLICORN: Well, Madam Mayor, Director, I see here that it was scratched out. 5 went
to 6.
MAYOR DICKEY: Correct.
SKILLICORN: Can we can you tell us why it was changed?
WESLEY: Yes, sir. Councilmember, just getting to that point. So when it's the trips, by
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the way, we count trips -- every time a vehicle moves is a trip. So if someone comes to
your house, that's one trip. They leave, that's the second trip. And so at five, it's two
and a half comings and goings. And so --
GRZYBOWSKI: They stay overnight.
WESLEY: I guess that could happen. So it made more sense to make it an even number.
We could have gone down to four. That seemed maybe a little bit restrictive. And so
we went up to the six. That's the reason, councilmember.
MCMAHON: John?
WESLEY: Yes?
MCMAHON: I have a question, please. We're at G, right?
WESLEY: Yes.
MCMAHON: Okay. It's about traffic and parking. If they're conducting a home business
here, there probably might be -- more than likely be employees who don't reside there.
And they're going to be coming and going to the house. Should they be added to this
paragraph? Like customer, patron, and shipping and receiving, and maybe a
nonresident employee's trip generation shall not exceed a certain amount --
WESLEY: Mayor and councilmember --
MCMAHON: To include them in there? Or does that come full circle, or what do you
think of that?
WESLEY: Mayor and councilmember, that could be helpful language to have in there.
Hadn't come up before, but yes, if the council would like to add that, this would be a
good place to do it.
MCMAHON: Yep. Because it seems to me that one of the objectives here is traffic.
WESLEY: Correct.
MCMAHON: So I would think that it would also need to include them.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
FRIEDEL: John, I have a question, too, about the parking. I realize that you've got
members of the family, but if you have nonmembers working there, where are they
going to park? And is there limits to that? And you don't want the family members
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moving their cars into the roadway and taking advantage of that. So how are we going
to enforce that?
WESLEY: Mayor, councilmember, this is probably one of the provisions that is
somewhat challenging when it's going to come to the enforcement. Currently, we don't
have any provision for it. Right now it says -- I believe, there are other provisions in the
code that that would allow the person who has a work vehicle, they work someplace
else and they bring the work vehicle home for that vehicle to be parked in their
driveway. Maybe it's in the other section of the code, but right now the interpretation
of the code is that as a home -based business, you can't have any business vehicles
parked in the -- let's see here -- on the property.
GRZYBOWSKI: It looks like it's item number C.
WESLEY: There we are.
GRZYBOWSKI: Did that help? There you go.
WESLEY: So in terms of employees again, I guess, councilmember, I'll come back to the
first part of your question. If it's a nonresident worker, they're not supposed to be
working at the home. Again, they may come there occasionally to pick up an
assignment, get some equipment or whatever they may need, and so they would be
there briefly and leave but they're not going to be there for an extended period. And
then too -- otherwise to park a work vehicle at your property, I guess, it really comes
back to the business being conducted has to be in the home. That's the way we've
we've done it, is if you've got a vehicle associated with a business, some kind of big work
vehicle parked in the driveway, then that's part of the business not being in the home or
in the garage.
FRIEDEL: So I've received some complaints and concerns from residents about home
businesses, with the family members parking out on the roadway and allowing the
workers to actually work in the driveway. So will this be driven by complaint to the
town, or is that how enforcement will start on this or --
WESLEY: Councilmember, probably most often, if one of our code officers recognizes
the violation, then certainly they will take proactive steps. But this type of thing is
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probably more likely going to come from a complaint.
FRIEDEL: So if you have five employees working for you and they all park in the
driveway or garage or wherever, and then those five family member cars are sitting out
in the roadway, that that causes some angst for residents. And we've heard about that,
at least I have several times. So that will be complaint driven to code enforcement, and
then they'll come out and take a look at the situation.
WESLEY: Yes.
FRIEDEL: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: But John, isn't that clarified? C, where it says there shall be no employees
working at the home other than members of the immediate family residing at the
dwelling. So shouldn't that eliminate that concern to a degree?
WESLEY: Councilmember, it should, but again, we do have -- and we've worked some of
these cases before where primarily it's been contractors. And so all their employees
show up first thing in the morning, get their assignments, get the work for the day, and
they're there for, you know -- I don't know how long -- a half-hour, an hour, or whatever
it is to take. And so it does cause a problem in the neighborhood. So it's not just a quick
stop and get something and leave type of thing. And so they are parking there for that
extended period and it is creating some of the -- both the number of the trip generation
as well as the activity that's not normal in a residential neighborhood. So we've got a
couple of ways we can approach that. We think the changes will add to our ability to
address those.
MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you. Also, another open-ended question is, for delivery, are
there -- have you considered any hours of delivery or would that be something that's
just not enforceable so to speak?
WESLEY: Mayor, councilmember, no. We hadn't really considered that. It would
probably be a little bit of a challenge, given the types of deliveries that occur these days
with Amazon and UPS and so forth with extended hours, to know was it a business
delivery or some other kind of delivery.
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MCMAHON: But given the purpose of this and based upon what's happened, were
there concerns about people being there? I thought there were concerns about people
being at the property late at night, et cetera, et cetera. So I don't know if hours -- or
putting something in the ordinance about hours would give some more credence or
credibility or weight if you wanted, we're able to enforce it or not, or no?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, I don't see where it could hurt to add hours. I'm not
sure what those hours would be. Would they help in the situations we've been dealing
with? You know, I don't know. Again, it depends on, I guess, how broadly or narrowly
we would list it. Deliveries, I'm surprised sometimes how late I get the little ding that
I've gotten a delivery from Amazon at my door.
MAYOR DICKEY: The other thing might be, like how do we know it's not a family
member or something? I mean, I wouldn't be, like, have your neighbor call because a
car pulled into your driveway at 11 o'clock at night and you're like, yeah, you know, I
don't know. I'm a little worried about that one.
WESLEY: It's certainly something we can keep in mind if we continue to have issues,
that we can come back with.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, maybe that with the nuisance kind of stuff too. If there's
something that's obviously a pattern, then maybe we can kind of go with that.
WESLEY: Another change we have is an I, with a change from the outside fire service to
being part of the town. Just changing some language here in regard to the building
official and fire marshal instead of the fire district.
From there, we move into some changes to both chapters 10 and 11 of the zoning
ordinances. Chapter 10 is a single -residence zoning districts. Chapter 11 is a multi -
residence zoning district. And one is just a little cleanup of some language in 10.02.9 to
make it consistent with what we had in 11, so the home occupation as prescribed in the
specific section of the ordinance. The main change is adding in both 10 and 11,
prohibited use. So prohibited uses "except for those items listed above, nonresidential
uses or activities of property or dwellings and associated structures are prohibited."
And so again, we think that gives us a little bit more teeth with some of these uses that
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we're seeing that are a little bit hard to truly define as a home occupation, but it's
clearly not residential either. And so thereby, I hope we can put it into this prohibited
use category and use that as a tool to address the use or the activity.
MAYOR DICKEY: There's a typo.
WESLEY: Sure. Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Residental "Resiential."
WESLEY: Okay. We'll get that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
WESLEY: Okay. I see that now. One of the problems with doing it all caps, it won't
catch the misspellings. And then here's a change in town code chapter 12, with regard
to the parking and the driveway. Clarifying that a little bit. And those are the proposed
and recommended changes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Do we have any speaker cards on this?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. First of all, in your packet, you have three written
comments who are for it. Then we have two speakers. First will be former mayor Linda
Kavanagh, and on deck is Senator John Kavanagh.
L. KAVANAGH: Okay. Linda Kavanagh, resident. I wrote this before I saw a lot of this.
So if whatever I say you've already kind of looked at, just consider us in agreement on it.
So. But I don't want to sit here and rewrite it.
Okay. So I think you all know that I'm a supporter of our business community, so why
am I not a big fan of home businesses? Well, just like Airbnbs. They started out as a
nondisruptive enterprise in neighborhoods. Those who were in favor of Airbnbs
thought, how nice for a family to be able to rent a home so they could be together on a
vacation. Well, best intentions. Look what happened to that. Without proper
regulation or consideration for the neighborhood, they became a disruptive menace and
needed immediate post -regulation. Now, the traditional home business used to be, you
know, maybe like an accountant and his office and people would drop off their taxes
and then come and, you know, pick them up later. But look at what they have evolved
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into since the pandemic and with the current economy. Now, home businesses that
should be in commercial or office zones are opening in homes, creating problems for
neighbors. Hair salons, computer repair shops, massage parlors, yoga studios, just to
name a few. I even heard of someone in another town trying to start a car repair shop
at his home. Think about when you allow a store or a restaurant in a commercial area
or in an office complex, the number one question you ask is, where will you park the
cars of your customers? But that has not been a consideration of home business
licensing yet.
Parking cars on a neighborhood street is very intrusive to those that live there. I live
next to a home business, and I know there were a lot more customers there than is
allowed under the ordinance. And when I did come to the Town, I guess it was about a
year ago, and I complained about it, the woman just said, oh, no, those are just visitors.
So I mean, and I said, really, do you have visitors? And they all have out-of-state plates
from different states. You have all these friends from across the country, but nothing
was ever done. She just lied and said they were just visitors. So I don't know how you
handle that.
But there's also a safety factor. I mean, we're told by the police to be the eyes and ears
of our neighborhood. Crime is everywhere. Home burglaries, break-ins. We had car
break-ins on our street. So how do you tell the good from the bad when random cars,
some with out-of-state plates, are parked on your street? Well, for me, a good solution
is to require the home business to have a parking plan, just like a commercial business
would, one that would utilize their own driveways for their customers rather than park
on the street. I know of a home business that has a driveway where four to six cars can
fit, yet they have all their customers parked on the street. I'm almost finished. Okay.
If only people could just be considerate, we wouldn't need regulations, but
unfortunately that's not the reality. So what I'm asking you to consider is that we don't
turn our neighborhoods into commercial zones. Remember, it's far cheaper to open a
home business than it is to rent a place, so we might see more and more of that
happening and a lot more empty stores in town. And the bottom line is, it should be the
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home business that makes the concessions to the neighbors, not the other way around.
Thank you for considering my suggestions.
J. KAVANAGH: You took a minute of my time.
Hi. John Kavanagh. I'll be real quick.
First, I appreciate the town's sensitivity to keeping these businesses not seen, heard, or
smelled because that's what your regulation does, and it should be that way. I don't
have a problem with people doing business in their home that doesn't go off property
and offend people. The biggest problem is the parking, and I think the way you solve
the parking problem is to make the ordinance state that during the business hours that
they have said they're going to take place, right, all of the vehicles have to be in their
garage, their driveway, or parking slabs. So that includes the vehicles owned by the
people who live there and customers. Because what happens is the customers don't
want to go in the driveway. So even when there are spaces there, they just park on the
street. So if you say -- and of course, the other problem is the people, if there's a
complaint, then you'll have the people who live there pull their cars on the street to
make more room, even when you can get everybody in there. So I think if you basically
said that all of the vehicles, if there's space for them, right, have to be on the property,
in the garage, in the driveway, or on the slab during the business hours, then
enforcement is very easy. If there's a complaint and the inspector comes and sees cars
on the street and empty spaces, then there's a violation. And they could warn the
person the first time. And then you'll have the people who own these businesses
policing their customers, saying, you can't park on the street, you got to pull it into the
driveway if there's a space. And I'm just -- I'm not going to-- if there's not a space, I
don't really have too much of a problem being on the street. But it's a real pain when
there's all these empty spaces and they're all over the street. Real quick.
I'm not sure how you enforce the 25 percent rule. When they get the license, do you
have an inspector come in and say this is the area? Or are we taking it on faith that
they're doing 25 percent? So you might want to address that between your attorney
and your staff on how can you actually find out if it's 25 percent.
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And finally, I looked real quick at your first definition. I think you have a flaw in the
wording if you want to put it up. And I won't be charging for this because I'm not a
licensed attorney. And I looked at it quickly.
WELSLEY: This one? Or this one?
J. KAVANAGH: The first one you did. Yeah. That one. Go back.
It says any occupation or profession carried on in a dwelling unit by residents thereof,
which use or activity is incidental and subordinate to the use of the dwelling unit for a
dwelling purposes, and which does not change -- oh, no, the other one, I'm sorry. The
other one. I was looking for it and it wasn't there.
Dwelling, a building or portion thereof built in accordance to the building code adopted
by the town, if built prior to adopted by, designed exclusively for residential purposes,
and used as a single-family multifamily dwelling. I think the "and" means it's only a
dwelling. If not only is it a residential building, but it's being used as a residence. And I
think you could make an interpretation that if you had -- if you purchased a single-family
house. Right? If you didn't live in it and did business there, it would not be a dwelling
because this says it's only a dwelling when it's a residential building and it's used as a
dwelling. So if it's not used as a dwelling, even if it's a house in a residential area, it's
not a dwelling. And we make this mistake all the time with legislature. So it's not like.
Again, if, in fact, it is a mistake. That's my quick take. Anyway. And if you could pursue
the the issue of the 25 percent. Maybe when they get their license, they have to allow
an inspector to come in and -- or show a plan of the house and where they're going to
do it, just, whatever. But the cars is the big thing. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Are there any other speakers?
MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, there's not.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you have any questions maybe about some of the stuff that
Kavanagh said or --
Yes. Council -- Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
State Senator Kavanagh, if we got rid of the "or" and kept it "and," would that solve the
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problem that you're looking to solve? Is it 1.12 definitions? Yeah.
J. KAVANAGH: I would just say period.
MAYOR DICKEY: Or used as.
J. KAVANAGH: Yeah. Don't require that if they use that. Just say if it's residential
building.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
J. KAVANAGH: And of course, stuff that attorneys can still argue.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Good. Okay. So can we make a note of that, please?
ARNSON: Noted.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. And then the other thing I'd like to address. And this is for you,
John, is home occupation section A. We have another problem here. And it says, "Shall
be conducted entirely within the dwelling, comma, and accessory structure used for
office activities only". And then they deleted accessory buildings. They strike that out.
I'm not very comfortable with that because this is just going to lead to a sprawl. What
they can't put in their home, they're going to build an accessory building to use for
office activities only. And so that's a huge loophole. They could call it a playhouse. It's
an accessory building. And they can put all the business materials that they want in
there. I suggest that we strike that out and we get rid of the strike out and include
accessory buildings has to be of a residential nature, not of a commercial nature. I think
that's a no brainer. And any thoughts on that, John?
GRZYBOWSKI: Sorry. If I could point out that on the staff summary report, accessory
buildings is crossed out, but it is not on the slide.
WESLEY: Yes. Mayor, councilmembers, looks like when I updated my PowerPoint
presentation from P&Z, I forgot to make that change on the slide. Sorry about that.
What's in your staff report is as recommended by P&Z where it crosses out in this
provision, the accessory and does allow for it as a location for the home occupation to
occur. So given what's in the staff report is correct.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. So the presentation is not correct.
WELSLEY: That's correct.
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KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. That's --
MAYOR DICKEY: I didn't even know that.
KALIVIANAKIS: I'll have to remember that. Okay. Then the next thing which may or
may not be in the staff report, is section J, use is not permitted. And again, I believe in
the original version "not permitted" was temporary or overnight keeping of animals for
hire.
WESLEY: Yes. So it's not going to be in anything that you have. Mayor, Vice Mayor.
KALIVIANAKIS: That's the original code, I believe.
WELSLEY: I believe it went to planning and zoning commission, we had proposed to
them in section J, that is prohibited uses that we add in there keeping of animals.
Because we've had one or two instances of that occur in town where people are
boarding pets in their home, and it's because of neighborhood concerns.
KALIVIANAKIS: So once again, are we eliminating the boarding of animals with the
rewrite?
WESLEY: So with the rewrite, we're not adding it in. We're keeping it as it is, as
recommended by P and Z.
KALIVIANAKIS: So they still can board animals?
WESLEY: Yes. Up to four.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Again, I wish we would get rid of that too, because I've been
dealing with that with a number of people. Gerry, I think you're familiar with one of the
cases about the boarding of animals, and it's a real hot -button issue with a lot of people.
When you start boarding animals, it leads to barking dogs. It leads to over -boarding of
animals, and then it leads to inspections. How many do you have in there? People
literally have had a case that people are taking pictures of -- they said, there's four, but
here's six because I got six different pictures. And so again, it seems small here, but I
would say for commercial purposes, no boarding of animals. If they have pets, it's a
different thing. But for commercial purposes, I don't think that's -- that's not right. If
they if they want to board animals, they can zone it, put it where it's zoned, and license
it and take care of animals.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Mayor. Madam Mayor, actually, I had a question about
parking. I think it was Councilwoman McMahon had thoughts about parking, and I
looked at what the senator said, and I'm curious about if there was a revision adding,
like, vehicles on the driveway. And I shortened it up and I thought, or parked within the
property. That would be carport/garage. We could say designated parking area but on
the property. Is that something that you would go along with and agree with?
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So --
SKILLICORN: Do you want me to restate it? Yes.
MCMAHON: Okay.
SKILLICORN: So the vehicles are parked on the driveway or parked on designated
parking spaces within the property.
WESLEY: Mayor, councilmembers, we could add that language. I would add it as it
relates to customer, patron, worker parking. Maybe exempt the shipping/receiving
because of your typical Amazon driver is not going to pull into the property to stop and
deliver package.
SKILLICORN: And Madam Mayor, just to follow up on that. Yeah, I don't want to strike
that part. The customer/patron shipping/receiving is fine. I think that's the added
about the driveway. And it was -- if it proves to be a problem, if people say this is too
much of a burden, we could we can obviously discuss it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anybody have any further questions or comments about that? John,
about --
TOTH: Madam Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. Go ahead, Councilwoman.
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. I have a clarifying question for John, if that's okay?
How would we confirm that these are commercial vehicles rather than visitor?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, it would take some time of investigation, watching
the activity, talking to the business owner, possibly to neighbors to verify what the
activity really is. So with any of these, it's typically not going to be a quick response
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unless it's just something really egregious and blatant in the violation.
TOTH: Okay. That's understandable. I also wanted to share that in the case that this is
a business that doesn't necessarily make sense for it to be a commercial property. So
the one that comes to mind, because my dad has a landscaping business, would be
landscaping, but I'm sure there's other examples. If there were home businesses that
have more than one or two employees that somebody needs to park on the street, I'm
not seeing any kind of consideration for that. And I understand that there can't really be
any exceptions based on the type of business, which this completely makes sense in that
the the government shouldn't necessarily be the judge of whether or not a business
needs to start in the home. Right? Like, I'm sure we've heard the stories of multiple
gigantic tech companies that started in garages. But I just -- I have a concern for where
our considerations are for what would be considered maybe a lesser issue. Like one car
on the street, in the morning, for an hour. Kind of like the example that you gave versus
something that's more egregious, which would be some of the earlier examples. I don't
know if you can speak to that at all or if that was a clear question, but it's just a concern
that I have.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you. I don't even know how that would be enforceable to allow a
car to be there for an hour or whatever. I mean, I don't see how that can be enforced.
Maybe I'm missing something.
WESLEY: Yeah. Mayor, councilmembers. Yeah, that would be a challenge. It would
take some consistent observations by the staff to really understand what was going on
and what was business related versus other activities that could be taking place in a
home. The goal here is to, again, limit workers even coming to the home, because we
want to maintain the residential character, residential level of activities that are going
on. And so we're really, I think, trying to discourage that type of activity to the degree
that we can but still being somewhat reasonable because we know there are legitimate
businesses that will have workers that will occasionally need to come by.
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MCMAHON: And I also think that parking on the driveway would hopefully help that
situation as well and have, hopefully, less cars on the street.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. I guess at this point, I'd just like to move
to adopt the Ordinance 26-06 with the, what I would call the Skillicorn-Kavanagh
amendment and with the Kalivianakis animal amendment that I think we already noted.
Do I get a second?
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: I'm just reading my notes. Can we discuss it a touch more? I think there
was a couple more things that we discussed. Unless there's a second. Is there a
second?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
KALIVIANAKIS: There was a second.
SKILLICORN: Well, then --
MAYOR DICKEY: No, you can.
SKILLICORN: So the only amendment that I would be talking about is if we went back to
the definitions in 1.12, and there is that sentence that had the "and" in it. What if we
could -- we really could put a period after residential purposes.
ARNSON: And Mayor and council, that's one that that I have written down.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
SKILLICORN: Okay. And then the staff and the staff report was the correct from P and Z.
But that's going to be as written. Yeah, that's fine.
ARNSON: Good.
MCMAHON: I have a question.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, ma'am.
MCMAHON: I need to understand a little bit more about the animal. Are we adding
that in or we're just leaving it alone like P and Z suggested?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, what I understand from the vice mayor is that we
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would put that back in as originally recommended by staff, that it would prohibit
keeping of animals as a home occupation.
MCMAHON: Have you had a situation before for regulating that or anything?
WELSLEY: Yes.
MCMAHON: Okay. So putting it back in will help you provide regulation for it?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, that's why staff recommended putting it in. It's not in
there today, but we recommended it in the draft ordinance because of the problems
we've had.
MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you very much for the clarification. I appreciate it.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And sorry about the --
Director, was there anything -- planning and zoning have anything about the -- the
about the animals? I'm not excited about removing them. So did planning and zoning
have any talk about it, or did they strike that out of staff recommendation?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember Skillicorn, Yes. As they discussed it, there was
concerns that it might interfere with some informal arrangements that neighbors might
have with each other in terms of taking care pets for each other when somebody is out
of town, that type of situation. If they're not really trying to operate it as a business, I
would doubt that that would rise to the level or become a code issue. But that was the
concern and that's why they took it out.
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I actually kind of concur with that. But we do have a
planning and zoning member in the audience. I don't know if he'd be willing to step up
or if you would allow it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, sure. You have a specific question? Yeah.
SKILLICORN: Well, just about that issue.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you want to come up and talk about it, Commissioner?
SKILLICORN: I'll restate. So this is about the -- and this, Mayor, in the staff report or the
staff recommendation is about removing the four animals per home current provision.
And then -- so it sounds like Director said that planning and zoning talked about that,
debated it, and may not want to proceed with that. Do you want to share maybe your
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thoughts and what the planning and zoning thought on it?
COREY: Gosh, if I remember all those details. I don't think I even -- I don't recall exactly
what we spoke about there, so I wouldn't want to misspeak.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. I'd like to call the vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: One little thing. Can I say something first?
KALIVIANAKIS: Of course.
MAYOR DICKEY: No second yet. I just wanted to make something -- I wanted to say
something because one of the people who is having some issues in their neighborhood
wanted to make sure that the definition of residing someplace was clear. So while it
might not be anywhere in our code or in our ordinances, John assures me that the
definition that we are going with says living in a place for some length of time, one who
resides in a place, to dwell permanently or continuously occupy a place as one's legal
domicile. So I just want to make sure that there's no loophole, no way to say, well, I'm
here for the week, so I yeah, I am living here or something, you know, to just make sure
that the resident is the actual resident. So I just wanted to say that for the record. And
we have a a motion to call for the question. Yeah.
KALIVIANAKIS: Gerry seconded it.
FRIEDEL: I did second it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Well, we'll do it, then.
Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Since I have hesitation on the animal issue, I have to vote no.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
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MAYOR DICKEY: I think she might have hung up because I heard that noise.
ARNSON: Yeah, I think the call disconnected, Mayor.
[CLERKS NOTE: Councilmember Toth dropped off the call at 8:49 p.m. with technical
difficulties]
MENDENHALL: Okay. Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
So our next couple items are probably going to involve Dave. Is there any presentation
or anything or --
GOODWIN: No. No presentation. I think Chief's going to lead us through these.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
OTT: Good evening. Everybody's still looking happy. I like that. Now, we got a couple
IGAs in the lease agreement back. The the first one is the IGA with the City of Glendale
for use of the facility that we refer to as grip stick. It's a multi -jurisdictional multi -aspect
training facility, both the -- joint PD and fire facility. They've put this out. They redid
their IGA. It really went out to the majority of the departments in the Valley. It's not
something that we'll probably use very often, but it's being offered to us through this
IGA. If we were in the position to do a regional training academy or send recruits to the
academy, this would be an option for us. And that's really what this IGA really deals
with. And that's where the $4,500 comes in to it. If we were just doing different types
of training not associated with the academy, there would be no cost associated with
that. We would just go out, participate in classes, and do that. It is over in Glendale. It
is available to us. And that's just one of the things, as we get into this, we'll have this
IGA. When Scottsdale completes its training facility, they're revamping that, we'll have
an IGA with them. We'll soon have an IGA with Mesa coming in. And Mesa would
probably be our preferable -- either Mesa or Scottsdale would be our preference for
sending recruits to a regional academy when we get to that point, when we start hiring
people somewhere down the road. So these IGAs are really just a formality. With that,
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if you would like me to expand on anything with the Glendale IGA, I'd be glad to.
MAYOR DICKEY: Questions for Chief. Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: But we had one person in favor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Great. Any questions? Motion?
FRIEDEL: Make a motion to approve.
KALIVIANAKIS: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth, have you joined us again?
GOODWIN: She's having technical difficulties. The call timed out, so we're working with
IT to see if we can get that reinstated.
MENDENHALL: Okay. Perfect.
Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
All right. Moving on.
OTT: Okay. Our next item is the lease that we had tabled and are bringing back. And I
apologize, I probably did not do as good a job on the first go round of explaining how we
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got to the lease and what it really means for us, but as we bring this back, the lease itself
still kind of stands. We didn't modify the three percent. The background on that is that
we went through a RFP to look for a provider of ambulance services for the town. We
only received one bid, and that was AMR. AMR was the parent company to Rural
Metro, and with that the original bid was asking for almost $1 million subsidy to provide
two ALS ambulances for the town. With that, we kind of went back and went through
some things with them. One of the things that made it more attractive for them to be
able to provide the current service that we have right now, which does not require any
subsidy, we do not have a binding contract with them and in that aspect, they're
complying with the requirements of the CON to provide our ambulance transportation
for the community. And one of the things that made that attractive to them was to be
able to provide a lease to them that was really workable for them. And the lease
models what they had currently -- or previously, excuse me. And that was based on a
lease that we adopted when they put an ambulance unit up in the Fry's center. I talked
to a number of different realtors, both commercial and residential, and there was really
nothing to compare this to. There's no other leases in town and very few leases in the
Valley where there's actually a municipality leasing to a private ambulance company
that provides service for them. Kind of works out that there's about 600 square feet of
that station that they use. And we feel that the charges are workable; it's amenable to
both sides. And without trying to get back in and rehash some of the things, up the rent
on them and increase that -- the multiplier, the three percent per year without really --
for lack of better term, monkeying up the relationship that we have with them, with the
services that they're currently providing for us, we felt that the best move moving
forward was to keep the lease, as written for the five years, with two two-year renewals
and the three percent per -year increase.
Most commercial leases that I had researched did not have an increase in it. You would
sign a lease for a certain number of months, years, whatever. At the end of that lease
term, then that lease would be renegotiated. So with that, we did have some
discussion. We did not feel that the lease itself, that adding the CPI increase in there
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would be a substantial amount of money for the town and that it would throw an
imbalance into the relationship that we currently have with AMR to provide the service
for the town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Any questions? Maybe she's back.
[CLERKS NOTE: Councilmember Hannah Toth rejoined the meeting at 8:56 pm.]
KALIVIANAKIS: I just have a quick comment.
MAYOR DICKEY: Question? Yeah.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. I'm just going to restate what I said last
week or two weeks ago. You know, I guess when I ran for this office and when I decided
to go into public service, I left the private industry. And I did run a company in Chicago,
and I always tried to follow best business practices. You know, I think a cost -of -living
increase in this is just good business. I know a lot of times municipalities, we're
spending taxpayer money, and I know some -- you don't want to fight over the nickels
and dimes, but in the private sector you have to. And so I don't speak for this council. I
just speak for myself, and I don't speak for the mayor. But I know AMR has got a net
worth of $395 billion. Their market cap has increased 48 percent in one year, and the
CEO makes $320 million and has almost $3 million worth of stock options. And so for us
to have a five-year contract, where every year we're going to be losing more and more
money and when we're trying to build roads and we're trying to provide parks, I just -- it
might just be a protest vote, but I just can't go along -- I can't go along with this.
FRIEDEL: You know I did a little research on this. We get a lot more than that three
percent from this company. If we need a second ambulance, they're here with a second
ambulance for this town. So I want to make the point that I think it's worth more than
three percent to this town to have this relationship. So I'm in favor of that. And with
that, I'll make a motion to approve this.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: I appreciate that. I just have to ask if there were any cards. I know we
want to hurry up.
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MENDENHALL: No cards, but there are in your packet, there are four people for it. And
we also did have a card, but they were just responding in writing that they're for this.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Any other comments? I agree with you. And
obviously this is a service. I look at it not quite as an IGA, but almost more like that than
a real estate deal or anything like that.
So roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. One more time.
OTT: Okay. Thank you.
Moving on. We finally have the IGA with the City of Scottsdale for a mutual aid
agreement. This kind of took a little bit of time being put together. We had a verbal
agreement with them since the time that they had backed out. They had canceled the
mutual aid agreement that they had previously with Rural Metro. We had a verbal
agreement, that prior to our transition to a municipal department, that they would still
help provide service for us when needed, when requested. And this just kind of
solidifies that. There was a little bit of a lost in the shuffle, if you will, that they
transitioned through a couple of different town attorneys that dealt with the fire
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department side of things. So it took a while to get this back and get it in front of them.
Coincidentally, it is going to Scottsdale council tonight, which normally we don't do it
that way, but it will look a little bit different because there will be two signature sheets
for you when you do it. And we'll just exchange signature sheets and move forward. It's
a pretty straightforward IGA for us on the mutual aid side of things. What it really does,
is the nuts and bolts of it, it says that if we ask for somebody and they have the units
available and can provide service to us, they'll provide it. And on the flip side of it, if
they need assistance and we have that available, we'll help them. This is kind of in lieu
of having an automatic aid agreement, which hopefully we'll move forward to in the
near future. This kind of cements our relationship with Scottsdale. At some point, we'll
also bring back another IGA, as I said, for the training options once their training facility
is complete. So for the most part, this is really a no -cost IGA. It just solidifies the fact
that, if we can help them, we will, and if they can help us, they will. So.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you so much.
Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not, but we have three people who submitted written
comments and that they're for it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I just want to say thank you. It takes a lot of work to put together our fire
department, and your diligence and attention to detail doesn't go unnoticed. And I
really, really appreciate it. So thank you very much.
And with that, I'd like to make a motion to approve this resolution.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks very much. We have a motion and a second. I also want to add
that we appreciate that Scottsdale has -- I mean, this has been happening even and now
we're solidifying it. But the intentions and the goodwill was there before this. So we
appreciate that. And again, thank you also, Chief.
Roll call.
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MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: I prefer in writing. Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
WELSLEY: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you again. Appreciate it.
OTT: Thank you. And thank you for all your support as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Our next item is about our sidewalk infill, and we have Justin to
present.
WELDY: Mayor, councilmembers, thank you for the opportunity tonight. I once again
come to you with my proverbial hat in hand. This time on behalf of the people that are
pro -sidewalk in the Town of Fountain Hills. The sidewalk gap elimination on Saguaro
and Palisades has been a multiyear effort. We have certainly come before the council in
regards to an ask to apply for the grant. We've returned and shared with them the 30
percent role plot that we shared with the open house. We also returned with good
news that we were able to secure some additional closeout funding. The project moved
forward. A few little minor hiccups in regards to some shallow utilities delayed the bid
opening. During that time frame we were also the recipient of additional closeout
funding to support this endeavor. And then the bids were opened. And it's not
uncommon for an engineer's estimate to be a little bit under these days. With that said,
we're going to do a quick refresher on what we have.
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This map right here, the very first one, shows the location where these sidewalks will be
constructed. This is the beginning of it down here on Colony Drive. This little outcrop,
which is Saguaro -- and this is important. As a result of too many conflicts on this
section with existing utilities that had to be eliminated from the project. However, the
project will continue north on Saguaro and fill the gaps until we reach Fountain Hills
Boulevard. This section, which is on Palisades, will only fill the gaps on the north side.
As a reminder, this is primarily an eight -foot -wide sidewalk which was within our
adopted subdivision ordinance.
This is the first segment right here where it actually starts. On the left of the screen is
Colony Drive, and just across from that is Lamplighter. And right here is one of the
existing critically acclaimed sidewalks to nowhere. Now it will be attached. This right
down here is Gunsight. You'll note that our green and red stop in this area, because this
section of Saguaro already has a sidewalk on one side. We're just eliminating the gap on
the other side. As a reminder, this section of El Largo will not be built with this project.
This is the mid -range section to this project. On the left part of the screen is La
Montana. South of this on Saguaro, on both the east and west side, we already have
sidewalk that's fronting Fountain Park on the east side, and the businesses on the --
excuse me -- businesses on the west side. So the sidewalk starts all over again here at
La Montana, and this is all primarily on the west side, filling those gaps that exist right
there. This is the final section just north of La Montana. There's a couple of little gaps
that we're going to fill in there. This is on the west side. As a reminder, this is the
wastewater treatment facility. This is Pepperwood. The sidewalk starts all over there,
and now we have it on both sides. This will take us all the way to Fountain Hills
Boulevard.
Lastly, is the little section on Palisades that is primarily west of Saguaro, which is down
here a little ways. Again, we're just filling in the gaps. And all of these gaps are on the
north side of Palisades. This will give us an uninterrupted sidewalk on Saguaro from
Colony to Fountain Hills Boulevard. South of colony we have some minor gaps that we
will address in the future, and it will give us a continuous sidewalk on both sides of
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Palisades, from Saguaro to Fountain Hills Boulevard. That's a pretty substantial amount
of walking surface that we'll be including. On the screen in front of you right now is a
breakdown of the numbers. You've seen the majority of these before, so we've simply
highlighted the ones that we're here to discuss tonight. In order to move forward with
this project, we would need to contribute an additional $521,000, because that is the
amount that the bid is over the grant funding allotment.
While you're thinking about that, keep in mind that this brings our total investment to
just under $800,000 for this sidewalk. That includes the funding that we pay ADOT for
administrating it, our match for the design, and obviously, our match for the
construction.
On behalf of those that work to try and achieve these types of goals, I think this is a
pretty substantial amount of walking surface. It's a big ask, and I'm well aware of that.
$700,000 total, including the $500,000 that we're asking for tonight, is a pretty big ask.
So I urge you to consider it. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Director, first I want to note that there is bike lane along most of those. At least the first
part on Saguaro there, there's bike lane going north and south or on the east side and
the west side. So my question is, is how much total is the grant amount? If you want to
go back.
WELDY: The total grant amount is $3.3 million.
SKILLICORN: Is it on the sheet?
WELDY: Yes, it is. The second.
SKILLICORN: Oh, I see it now. Okay. And is there a length of time that we have to use
that grant? I mean, do we need to spend in a certain amount of time or lose it?
WELDY: Mayor, Councilmember, there certainly is. We can certainly ask for a deferral.
I would have to go back and look at all the necessary paperwork from the granting
agency to determine whether or not we have that option built into there.
SKILLICORN: Thank you. My only thought on this is, even though I would use the
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sidewalk during our fairs -- I mean, there's currently -- but the only thing, I think there's
currently bike lane there. And I've stayed alive with just the bike lane. So even though
this would benefit Allen, I still want to say that I'd rather spend the money on roads.
And you know, we had a public comment tonight. Someone did want the roads
repaired. I think that's got to be a priority.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: Bummer that it costs us $521,000 more to be able to use this grant
money. If we ask to postpone it, all we're going to do is increase the costs, which would
increase our costs, because I assume that the grant money will not increase. Correct?
Yes. I just heard a yes.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Vice Mayor, that is correct. It's after the bid, it's unlikely. The
grant money is what it is.
GRZYBOWSKI: That that's a huge concern of mine, is if we postpone this a year or two
years or whatever, this extra $521,000 is going to increase by at least three percent. To
me, cities and towns aren't building highways. We need to be more than roads, our
transportation infrastructure. We're moving people; we're not moving cars. And to be
able to safely move people, that includes however the people want to travel, whether it
be sidewalk or bikes or roads. So I do think that this is very important. I would be
willing to approve this to get it done and over while we can at, what I'm going to call, a
lower cost than it would be in a year or two. Thank you.
MCMAHON: Councilwoman? Oh, it's you first?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just one curiosity question. Not a trick
question at all. It seems like, when I was young, the sidewalks weren't eight feet. They
were like four. I mean, have they just gotten bigger? Because it seems like that's really
wide.
WELDY: Mayor, Vice Mayor, indeed. So originally, when I was a youngster, the
sidewalks averaged between 24 and 36 inches. We've discovered with time that there's
not enough room on that narrow width of sidewalk for the activities that's intended.
Let's just say a family walking, especially if it's adjacent to a curb and someone walking
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the opposite direction, or someone with physical challenges and either a wheelchair or
these days in a motor cart, they simply need a wider walking space.
KALIVIANAKIS: I kind of thought that was the answer. So thank you for answering my
curiosity. The other thing I'd just state is, since since being elected, this sidewalk infill
connectivity wasn't very important to me a while back. But I hear a lot of people are
appreciative of connectivity and the sidewalks right now. And what I particularly like
about this project is it seems like they're the right place to put the sidewalks. And two
major streets with a lot of sidewalks and nowhere connecting them all up seems like a
good -- if we're going to spend that much money, it seems like we're putting the money
at the right spot. So thank you for that.
WELDY: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: So we've already spent 250-something or $256,000 or so? Is that what
that says here? Lost investment. Yeah. So if we don't do it, we've kind of lost that
investment. And if we wait, I think one of the other cities re -bid and it was even higher
than this. Because that was the other question, like, is it possible to re -bid? But we
already kind of heard the answer to that. So I just wanted to -- before we go and ask --
and I'll ask Gerry. But before we do a motion, did we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not, but we do have three comment cards in your
packet that are for this item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Gerry?
FRIEDEL: I would say we move people and cars, especially on these two roads. So again,
I would agree with the vice mayor that these are probably areas where we probably
need it the most, but I wanted to make sure that we realize we do move people and cars
in this town.
GRZYBOWSKI: The people are in the cars. That's my point. We're moving people and
they decide how they want to move themselves.
FRIEDEL: I know.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
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MCMAHON: Sorry. Thank you, Justin. I'm also for this project, and thank you for being
thorough about it.
I think getting $3 million is an awful lot in comparison to what we're going to spend,
even though, yes, it is a lot of money. But at the same time, our communities really
wants to have walkability. I know we've talked about it in the pedestrian and safety
committee, et cetera, so I think it's important and the areas that you picked are really
busy areas for the most part. So thank you very much. And on that, I'd like to make a
motion to approve the funding in the amount of 521,182 for construction of sidewalk
along Saguaro Boulevard, Palisades, as well as all necessary budget transfers. And thank
you.
KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to second that, please.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Can we get a roll call?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: It sounds like a reasonable request, but I got to prioritize roads, so no.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Thanks, Justin.
WELDY: You're welcome.
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MARCH 19, 2024, TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: And it was hard. When you say the sidewalk to nowhere, that was like
from 20 years ago. So we're working on it. I appreciate that very much.
So the legislative item, I think one of the things we talked about was that everything
that we are hearing recently are bills that we've already kind of registered on, for and
against, and the one that was vetoed. And then there's another compromise one that
sounds like everybody's going to hold hands on. So maybe that's going to be okay. So
we'll just keep -- unless anybody has anything new that they would like to bring up and
have us take a position on. I think most of them are still floating around, the same ones.
Anything else?
So the -- the item when we discussed the direction -- we had some speakers get up and
talk about the trash and storage from Living at Village Towne Center. So can we get an
update on that? And if there's any way to alleviate that or move it or whatever, it
seemed pretty reasonable.
And then, Justin, again, if we could maybe contact the gentleman who talked about
Golden Eagle and Palomino -- Palomino is near, and I'd like to see us do that as well. But
the idea of the CARE funding that we did put all of the funding in, we are spending
everything that we can, when we can. And also the rationale, again -- and it's very hard
to understand, but is that when we fix a road that doesn't look like it needs fixing, it's
because we're preventing something from happening in the future. So I know it's
frustrating. So maybe somebody -- maybe we could just contact him and give him a
little bit of the rationale behind that. And then hopefully, going forward, we will do
some things that are a little more visible.
Let's see, any future agenda items?
Yes, sir?
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I've got a couple. One is a question. I think about six
weeks ago, I requested a DEI policy, and I emailed over the text of that, but I haven't
seen it on the agenda.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, I forgot about -- what did we -- what were we going to do? Were
we getting some sort of sample or --
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GOODWIN: Actually, we need to have some -- we'll need to have support of two other
councilmembers based on your discussion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So this would be to create a DEI policy for the --
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- town.
SKILLICORN: At the time, I believe, Councilwoman Toth seconded. But --
MAYOR DICKEY: Diversity and -- what is it again?
SKILLICORN: Inclusion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. So yes. So could we get -- you're right. She did.
So can we get another support for that? I think it's something -- if there's something
that you are particularly interested in, why don't we talk or take a look at that, see if
there's -- is there something that you're concerned with and maybe we can do it that
way. And if you still have concerns, then maybe we can.
SKILLICORN: Um -hum. Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Maybe it's --
SKILLICORN: I believe we had a second and a third on it that night.
MAYOR DICKEY: We just had a second. We just had a second.
SKILLICORN: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: So. That's right.
FRIEDEL: I'll third it so we can have discussion on it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
SKILLICORN: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All right.
SKILLICORN: The next one a few days ago, or it was a week ago. There was a public
speaker that was here tonight. Chris Enos had a resolution about directing the attorney
on the referendum suit. I'd like to make that agenda item to discuss that and vote on it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. Hold on, what do you mean? We are --
SKILLICORN: Well, I don't want to violate open meetings, but it would direct the
attorney in that case. I think that that's -- I can share that. I don't think we should share
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any more, though.
MAYOR DICKEY: Help me, Aaron. I mean, I don't know that we're going to talk about.
ARNSON: Well, I believe we -- I believe that the copy of the resolution, at least that I -- I
don't know if it's the same version. Presumably, the version that I received, it would
direct the town attorney to not defend the town in the lawsuit. Is that the one that
you're talking about?
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. So it was a resolution telling the town not to defend ourselves,
correct?
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? Did you --
MCMAHON: Yes. That seems nonsensical to me because the lawsuit's been filed
against --
ARNSON: Hold on.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. We're not going to discuss. I just want to know, is there like a
is there a second?
TOTH: I'll second that.
MAYOR DICKEY: So this would be a resolution to not defend ourselves against a lawsuit
that our names are on? Individually, our names are on.
MCMAHON: I have a question for Aaron, if you don't mind. It's your job. Has such a
request ever been made to you before? I mean, if you don't defend us, it's
automatically -- anyway, because we're not allowed to discuss it.
TOTH: Point of order.
MAYOR DICKEY: No, we're not allowed to discuss. So. But we have one person
supporting, not defending ourselves against a legal claim. Do we have another person
that wants to do that?
TOTH: I'll second that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. You did. Okay. She saying that she would go for it too, but we
need another person.
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FRIEDEL: I'll be the third.
MAYOR DICKEY: To not defend ourselves? Okay. So we're not going to defend -- we're
going to discuss in public --
SKILLICORN: Discuss it.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- not to defend ourselves against a lawsuit. Okay.
SKILLICORN: And then there was one more about --
MCMAHON: Before we move on.
MAYOR DICKEY: We can't talk about it.
MCMAHON: I'm not talking about it. This is going to involve legal advice. So I would
like to move that to executive session, please.
ARNSON: Well, at least the legal advice component of it will be an executive session, no
doubt. Any action on it would be in public.
SKILLICORN: And then the last of them was I'd like to, with the the haunting killing of
Lake and Riley, I'd like to have a resolution supporting ICE for the town. And that's
something I can draft and get that to staff in a day or two.
MAYOR DICKEY: Could you please tell me what you're asking?
TOTH: Second.
SKILLICORN: Well, again, we can't discuss it. It's just a resolution supporting ICE.
MCMAHON: ICE?
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
MCMAHON: Ice what?
ARNSON: ICE, Immigration Custom Enforcement.
SKILLICORN: Yeah.
ARNSON: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Does he have a third for that? Does Councilman have a third for that?
Thank you. All right. There's nothing else.
We are adjourned. Thank you.
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Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting
of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on March 19, 2024, at 9:24 p.m.
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
6(
Gi y Dickey. Mayor
Lifida G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the
minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the
Town Hall Council Chambers on the 19th day of March 2024. I further certify that
the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 7th Day of May 2024.
Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk