Press Alt + R to read the document text or Alt + P to download or print.
This document contains no pages.
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024.0402.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
APRIL 2, 2024
A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E.
Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:30 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Brenda J. Kalivianakis;
Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon;
Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Hannah Toth;
Councilmember Allen Skillicorn
Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D.
Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Approximately seventy-six members of the public were present.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
Town Council Meeting Minutes
April 2, 2024
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
Page 1 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening everyone. Welcome. Please stand for the pledge. And
if you choose, remain standing for the invocation.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Pastor Jake Rogers from Generation. Hi.
ROGERS: God, Lord, we just pray that you would just bless this meeting, that you would
give wisdom and guidance as these leaders, God, lead our town that they would have
the wisdom and guidance needed to put us in the in the direction that we need to
continue to go, God. And that you would just use this town in a great way. We thank
you. Bless this time. Amen.
ALL: Amen.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Here.
MENDENHALL: Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the
agenda or under call to the public should fill out a request to comment card located in
the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of
Page 2 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
that item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into the
microphone, and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments to
three minutes.
It is the policy of the mayor and the town council to not comment on items brought
forth under call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the
council at a future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Linda. We start with our reports by our town manager and
councilmembers. Rachael?
GOODWIN: Great. Thank you, Mayor. Good evening everybody. I just had two really
quick updates. One is to recognize and thank our staff and all of our volunteers that
were part of our volunteer reception last week. I know a number of our council were
there. It was a great event. We had a couple hundred folks there where all of our town
volunteers are honored. And then a number of volunteers are recognized as our
standouts for the year. Thank you to Kim and Nita and Renee and our staff that put the
event on. But most of all, thank you to all of our volunteers that support us day in and
day out.
Secondly, I did want to mention that this weekend, this Saturday is our music fest down
at Fountain Park; lots of great music, bands, food, all kinds of stuff. So it is a fantastic
weekend. We hope to see you down there on Saturday.
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. I had the pleasure of attending the Dark Sky Festival on
Saturday. It was a lovely event. I see a lot of you in the crowd, so great job. And I
mean, amazing as always. I'm so excited for the dark Sky Discovery Center project. I
actually got the chance to meet someone who's trying to get Cave Creek to become a
Dark Sky community, which is so fantastic to hear. You're all setting an example for
communities around Arizona, and I'm really grateful for you. And looking forward to
seeing everybody at Music Fest. That's all I have, though.
GRZYBOWSKI: I attended the quarterly GPEC board meeting, and we had a lot going on
the past couple of weeks, so I'm just going to mention the two really good, feel good
events that we held last week. We had the annual Hall of Fame dinner, where nine very
Page 3 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
worthy candidates were inducted into the Hall of Fame -- a couple of which are actually
here today. And then the following night we had the annual volunteer reception, which
the town manager just spoke about it. I love the way we do it now. It seems very fancy
and formal. It used to be so casual, but now it really -- it's a real good, feel good event
and I appreciate you guys doing that for us.
The volunteer reception is for people that help out at the community events. people
like the crisis team, the Give a Lift folks. We have a lot of volunteer opportunities that
the town does in general, where the Hall of Fame is a little bit more than just being a
town volunteer. So that's why it's important to hold both of these things. Thank you
very much.
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. I too attended the Fountain Hills Days Festival that we had
here. That was very well done, by the way. And the Dark Skies Festival was really
fantastic. The number of telescopes and the things that I saw there were really, really
pretty cool. So that's the nerdy side of me, I guess. But anyway, it was really well
attended and great food trucks too.
And then we, as they mentioned, the volunteer reception. That's really important
because with a town of volunteers, it's really great to give them some recognition and
some credit. So very well done, Rachael, on that. Thank you.
MCMAHON: Good evening, everybody. I attended a Valley Metro board meeting, and
just want to let everybody know that the conversion to electric busses is moving
forward pretty quickly, which will be nice. Also, I attended the community chorus event
at the community center. It was really, really lovely. And also the Hall of Fame dinner
honoring Alan Magazine, a prior councilmember; Mr. Brown, a prior councilmember. I
don't know if Cindy Couture's here, she's a retired high school teacher. And also Tammy
Bell, who works at the Chamber and is the chair of our Fountain Hills Protect Our Youth
Coalition. It was really a nice event and great to honor these people. They give so much
to our community.
Also, the town's volunteer reception, that was really well done. Kim did a great job and
it was really nice to see all the volunteers get recognized. And in fact, I believe our ratio
Page 4 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
of volunteers in town to our population is the highest in the Valley. I mean, I don't think
any other town has as many dedicated, proactive volunteers as we do. So thank you for
all your service, you guys, we appreciate it. And I volunteered at the Dark Sky Festival,
and as everybody said, it was really, really a wonderful event. The kids loved it. They
got to participate and little stations, et cetera I think -- I don't know -- Debbie Miller
knows, but I think there were a couple thousand people there. I mean, we had a lot of
people there. It was really, really great, and well done. And also we're going to have
another -- also, we had a CARES forum and the CARES forum was put on by the
committee and thank my fellow councilmembers and Bo Larsen for putting it on. We
had a great discussion about civility from a professor and a newspaper editor, and it was
really, really nice. And contrary to some of the disrespectful remarks that were made
about the town putting on this event, it was the largest attended forum thus far, and
that says something.
Also the dementia -friendly town committee is putting on a Taking Care of Yourself, Care
for the Dementia Caregiver. It's going to be at the community center on April 8th. It's
free. We're going to have a lot of information, some great speakers. I put fliers on the
back table and I hope you guys will attend. So thank you.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Hi, everybody. And thanks for coming tonight.
For all you people on livestream and YouTube and here in person, thank you. As I
always say, an active and engaged public leads to good governance. And in Fountain
Hills we are blessed with that. I just came back from a weeklong trip to the east coast. I
was had a host -- Lana (ph.), thank you very much for putting up with me, offering my
lodging, and giving me your rental car -- or a car where she got a rental. So I appreciate
that. I'm back. I'm nourished, and I'm refreshed and ready to go as you can see.
Thanks, everybody, for the thoughts and the prayers on my -- I don't have sunglasses on
tonight. I'm back to regular. It's kind of a scary thing, and it was very inconvenient for
being on the council. But a couple of months ago when the doctor said you have
cataracts and your vision is diminishing, it's getting worse and worse. He said, all we
have to do is this procedure, it's easy to do, and you'll be whole again. And so I did it
Page 5 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
and you guys put up with it. But I got good vision again and I'm whole. So I appreciate
that. And I appreciate everybody reaching out to me and caring for me.
I also did go with the mayor and Peggy to the Fountain Hills CARES meeting. Again, I do
believe in civility, and I think it's a good message for this town. Civility forges
acceptance and connection that we all want and we all need. Incivility makes us feel
small and discarded. It appeals to our crude and our baser instincts. Civility raises us up
and inoculates our hearts with kindness. And it also has been proven to be an
important part of staying healthy. And we are a health and wellness community. And if
we treat each other with respect and dignity, we'll all feel better.
The one thing that I did go to, I don't think anybody mentioned was the capital
improvement retreat that I did up here on the town bridge. And again, just very
important because a lot of times people say we didn't know things were coming, and
then all of a sudden they appeared to council and you guys are voting on stuff. Well,
this stuff generally takes a year or two and there's retreats and all sorts of things. We
have another one coming up, I believe within the month. And so it's very important if
you're concerned about this business, don't just come to council meetings, and say we
didn't know. Because this past week, we had a number of community services and
public works projects. We talked about town park projects. One was targeted to
stargazing and then a Dark Sky community that should be really popular. Sidewalk infill,
roadway expansion, drainage and flood mitigation, more public restrooms, pickleball,
and community center improvements were just some of the things we discussed. So
again, if you want to know what's going on in Fountain Hills, you got to come to these
retreats. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. That's all I have for tonight.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: No report tonight, Madam Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks a lot. As you can see, lot's been going on. So had MAG
Regional Council -- I'm going to refer you to their website which is azmag.gov because
there were some good presentations. One was Fountain Hills being recognized for
joining the region and efforts to reduce homelessness. And it's always in ways that are
Page 6 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
appropriate to each community. So I appreciated that we were part of that
presentation giving solutions that like I say, they're appropriate to the city. So it's like
the Town of Paradise Valley and Fountain Hills, we have our own way of helping out.
MAG leaders met with and appealed to EPA regarding reevaluating our air quality
status. I don't know if you've been paying attention to that at all, but we're kind of on
the verge of getting down a notch, which is going to affect certain big projects that are
coming to Arizona. So it was good to see that they were there trying to discuss the
desert and the storms and the fires and other things that might affect our air quality.
The modeling and studies that MAG does are crucial to planning for our future
transportation needs as we know, including and primarily roads and streets. And this
has led to good rankings that you'll see if you look at the presentation that we have as a
metropolitan area for travel times and for costs, and for being the fifth largest city in the
country, it was quite impressive. I had my quarterly meeting with the Fountain Hills
superintendent, the district's superintendent. We did Fountain Hills CARES -- something
really unusual. East Valley mayors and the U.S. Conference of Mayors were invited by
the City of Mesa and Major League Baseball to celebrate the Play Ball Initiative. I was
just talking to Rachael about that. It's a really neat thing for our youth. And so I got to
be on the field and wave on behalf of Fountain Hills at a Cubs -Giants game with all the
other mayors. So that was very nice and appreciated.
Fountain Hills Day, which was really awesome. Thank you to the Chamber for that.
Giving everybody the opportunity to enjoy that gorgeous weather. The capital
improvement work study last Tuesday, and then we're going to have the budget work
study next Tuesday. So that's going to be four Tuesdays in a row. So we got to put a
stop to this now.
The Hall of Fame dinner. Congratulations to everybody who got that. That was a
wonderful volunteer reception. Again, thanks to staff and of course, all of our
volunteers and the Dark Sky Festival with the lobster rolls, which I'm always going to go
for even if they're -- let's see -- $31. They were awesome. And some news, apropos a
recent topic here that I think Councilman Skillicorn had brought up about -- and it goes
Page 7 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
with our proclamation of International Dark Sky Week. So in anticipation of the
groundbreaking that's going to happen on Monday, which is during the eclipse, the
International Dark Sky Discovery Center is including a place called the Pluto Snack
Station. Right? I saw it on the map. So I want to make note that Pluto is now the
official state planet of Arizona. So while many believe that it is a dwarf planet, and I
know somebody was kind of challenging this, actually, some in the community still look
at it as a planet. And the reason it's important to Arizona, it was first discovered at
Lowell Observatory in Flagstaff in 1930. So that will lead me right into the
proclamations, which I have two things to do here. We're going to present the Fountain
Hills Dark Sky Association; I think Vicki and Joe, and whoever else wants to come up with
board members for International Dark Sky week, and then we'll immediately go into
presenting the citizen's streets advisory committee. They received special recognition at
the volunteer dinner and at the reception. And this is for all of their work, many, many
months of work distilling the data that we did get from the IMS report, which is get you
cross-eyed if you look at that a little too long and these guys put it in English for us. So
we're coming up with a comprehensive plan that they will have options that the council
will be able to consider. But their labors are done for now.
So I'm going to come down and we'll do -- first, we're going to do the Dark Sky. So if you
all want to meet me down there, I'll present it.
Who wants to hold this while I talk? Wow, this is great. Come on up. Come on, come
on, come on. All right. I'll start reading it. And then you all, whoever would like to say a
few words, any, or all of you, you're welcome to.
So whereas, the aesthetic beauty and wonder of a natural dark sky is a shared heritage
of all humankind; and whereas, the experience of standing beneath a starry sky inspires
feelings of wonder and awe and encourages a growing interest in science and nature,
especially among young people and visitors; and whereas, light pollution has
scientifically established economic and environmental consequences, which result in
significant impacts on the ecology and human health of all communities; and whereas,
Arizona hosts ten percent of the world's largest telescopes, including the world's largest
Page 8 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
optical telescope and many of the most revered observatories, including Lowell,
Smithsonian, U of A, Kitt Peak, and the Vatican observatories, and in the future, the
International Dark Sky Discovery Center. What? And whereas, the optical astronomy,
which is endangered by unfettered light pollution, represents a statewide capital
investment of more than $1.3 billion -- geez -- and an annual economic return of over
$250 million, including an indirect attachment to more than 150,000 jobs through the
aerospace and defense sector, and whereas, the Fountain Hills Dark Sky Association
provides free education, resources, and solutions to the public to encourage the
protection of and enjoyment of dark skies and responsible outdoor lighting. So
therefore, now, I, Mayor Ginny Dickey, on behalf of the town of Fountain Hills, proclaim
the week of April 2nd through April 8th, 2024, as International Dark Sky Week and ask
each resident to join me in observing this important week and raising awareness and
support for protecting our precious dark sky resources. That's a mouthful.
BILL: Well, thank you. We appreciate that. And of course we're so excited about what's
going on. We just had a great festival, as you know. We have another major event
coming up next Monday, the groundbreaking. We already have confirmed attendees
from the governor's office, from Senator Kelly's office, Senator Sinema's office, Chris
Camacho, CEO of the Greater Phoenix Economic Council; the list goes on. And it's going
to be a big event. We've been getting publicity throughout the Phoenix area. I just
hope half of Phoenix doesn't show up. But it's going to be a great time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else?
DERKSEN: Yeah. And I wanted to really just thank all of the current council, Mayor, and
past councilmembers and mayor, that you guys have been so supportive of our efforts
here in Fountain Hills since day 1, and we're super appreciative of that and our
community thanks you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, you guys. Take
care. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, guys, so much. So Justin's going
to take this and I will hand out the plaques.
WELDY: Madam Mayor and councilmembers, I thank you for the opportunity. This is
Page 9 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
the second time in recent days I've had the honor of recognizing this group of
volunteers. The Fountain Hills Advisory Streets Committee stands out as a beacon of
the community involvement and dedication to the betterment of our town's
infrastructure. They were formed in 2021. The Citizens Advisory Streets Committee
comprised engaged residents offering impressive collection of experience. They offered
invaluable input and guidance on how the town could effectively manage its streets and
pavement repairs for the next two decades and beyond. Their collaborative efforts
resulted in innovative solutions to stretch the town's resources while maintaining the
integrity and safety of the roadways. The tireless work of the Citizen Advisory Streets
Committee exemplifies the power of community engagement and volunteerism in
effecting positive change. Their proactive approach to addressing the challenges of the
street maintenance and repair serve as an inspiration. I'm going to call out all of their
names. Not all of them are in attendance. Gentlemen, when I call your name, if you
would please come up here. Jerry Butler. Kim Colenso. Jim Dickey. Mark Graham.
Buck Haworth. Bernie Hoenle. Dean Hughson. Jeffrey Allan Kerr. Karl Manthe. Joe
Mueller. Christopher Plumb. Gary Salavitch. Gregg Dudash and George Mitchell.
MAYOR DICKEY: I know you. There you go. All right. So --
DUDASH: Great speech, by the way.
MAYOR DICKEY: It was a great speech. So anybody want to come on? Who wants to
take it? He's not. Who wants to be the one to say hello? There you go.
BUTLER: Hello. As our public works director commented at the beginning of this, yes,
the committee put in a lot of hours and I think we have come up with a program unlike
many times before, at least three times before, where this has been addressed, we tried
to take a different approach this time. Because the ones that have been tried twice
before haven't worked, so hopefully this one will take the community forward and we'll
have better streets in the near future. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Third time's a charm. Thank you guys. I think -- did you get a picture
yet? Okay. We'll do one real quick. Thanks so much.
Thank you all very much. We have some presentations tonight. Our first one is from
•
Page 10 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Cox Communication and Jamie Boyett is here. I don't know if Rachael had anything to
say or if you'd like to come on.
GOODWIN: Actually, I think Bo's going to do our introduction for us tonight.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
LARSEN: I'm everywhere today. It didn't work. Give me one second, please, and I'll --
full screen, there we go.
Mayor and councilmembers, I'm really honored to introduce Jamie Boyett, who's the
manager of government affairs for Cox Communications. As you know, we'd like to
bring in some of our partners that we have to kind of give a yearly update of what's
going on, not only in their own industry, their company, but what they're doing to
impact and make lives better here in the Town of Fountain Hills. So I'd like to introduce
Jamie Boyett to give the presentation for Cox Communications.
BOYETT: All right. Hi Mayor, members of the council. My name is Jamie Boyett. I'm the
manager of government affairs for Cox Communications in the Phoenix metro area. I
appreciate you guys allowing me to be here tonight, to give you a little overview of Cox
and what we're up to. So just to give you guys a little bit of history. Cox
Communications is part of Cox Enterprises. Cox Enterprises was founded back in 1898
by James M. Cox and originally was a newspaper. Obviously, we have grown
tremendously since then. We are now over 125 years old, and we are a privately held
communications, media, and automotive services company with more than 23 billion in
revenue and over 50,000 employees throughout the United States.
Some of the subsidiaries of Cox Enterprises, I think Cox Communications is the one that
most everybody knows. That is our residential arm. So on the residential side, we
provide a video, voice, and data products to residents within the Town of Fountain Hills.
We also have a Cox business arm that provides business services to small, medium, and
large companies. Again, they provide data, phone, video, cloud services, and many
other things that your businesses may need to operate on a daily basis. We also have
Cox Media. Cox Media is our advertising arm, so they are able to assist, again, small,
medium, and large businesses, government entities, and individuals with any advertising
Page 11 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
needs they may need. They can go speak to our Cox advertising, our Cox Media folks.
They can help them come up with a plan and help them execute that.
We also have Cox Automotive. Under Cox Automotive, we have consumer -facing
businesses like Autotrader.com, Kelley Blue Book, and Manheim Auctions.
Another thing that we just acquired is Cox Farms. So Cox is also looking to get into
sustainable farming as well. So that is greenhouses where you can grow produce and
stuff like that. So here in Arizona, Cox generates 5.5 billion in total economic activity in
Arizona each year. We also contribute to vital state and local government programs in
Arizona, generating over 84 million in property taxes, sales, and gross receipts, and
other fees annually. We support over 14,000 jobs here within the State of Arizona, and
we have enough fiber and coaxial infrastructure in the state to wrap around the entire
globe.
From a social impact, Cox is proud to be a longstanding and integral part of nearly 40
communities in Arizona, four counties, three military bases, and two of the state's
colleges -- state universities here. We have demonstrated an annual community
investment to Arizona by providing cash, grants, and in -kind contributions of nearly 33
million. Some of those are Umom New Day centers, Habitat for Humanity, Boys and
Girls Clubs of the Valley, Chicanos Por La Causa, and many, many other organizations
that our employees help. We have a Cox Charities Foundation, which our employees
contribute to on a yearly basis. Those employees also determine who those funds go to
nonprofit organizations as well.
In Fountain Hills, residents have the opportunity to get internet, video, and voice
services through Cox Communications. As I mentioned, we're a broadband
communications and entertainment company that provides those advanced services
over our own nationwide IP network. We're committed to creating meaningful
moments of human connection through broadband applications and services. Cox is
also dedicated to ensuring digital equity for all households in our communities. The
digital divide prevents people from gaining access to the internet, information, and
resources they need to prosper, which is why we'll continue our ten -plus year
Page 12 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
commitment to providing low-cost services to low-income families in our communities.
Right now, we do have two digital equity programs that are available to residents today.
One is Connect2Compete. We have had that available for ten -plus years to the
community, that is for residents who have children in the K through 12 school system. If
they are on the free or reduced reduced lunch program, they qualify for that program.
It provides them 100 megabytes of download, free Wi-Fi modem. There is no contract
associated with this as well. When COVID hit, we realized that we also needed to assist
the rest of the population that needed assistance as well. So we created the
ConnectAssist program. It's the exact same program. It assists residents who are on
SNAP, SSI, those types of programs. And again, it's 100 MB, free modem, no contract.
And that is $30 a month for residents that qualify for that program.
I wanted to mention that Cox, we do invest in our network continuously. We have
invested 2.7 billion in Arizona over the last ten years. That is not going to stop. We will
continue to invest in our network to make sure that we are providing a reliable service,
as well as meeting customers' needs and demands. Cox was voted number 1 fastest ISP
in Arizona, per Ookla in quarter 4 of 2023, and we have done speed increases without
price changes. Our system also allows us to do 24/7 network monitoring. So hopefully
we are able to capture when residents are having issues with their services prior to
them noticing. Obviously, that is not always the case. There are circumstances such as
if something gets cut, we have other issues where we need to replace equipment, that
sort of thing where it may take us a little bit longer to get those fixed. And we also do
have a redundant network operations center, which again ensures ongoing monitoring.
Today in Fountain Hills, all residents are able to get up to one gig of speed for data. We
do have up to two gig that is currently not available to all residents in Arizona. It's about
67 percent that has that option, but we are working to get two gig to all of our residents
in Arizona. But as you can see, we have a number of options available depending upon
the needs of our residents for data service.
And to sum it up, as I mentioned, all Cox residents in Fountain Hills have the access to
receive up to one gig of Internet. We want to seek to be a great internet provider and
Page 13 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
to provide a variety of internet speeds to the residents here. We will continue to work
to make our network scalable, and we're working to continue to provide even more gigs
of service, up to ten gigs, in the near future. And with that, I would be happy to take
any questions you may have.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. We appreciate that information. Any
questions? Comments from council? Vice mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah, it's good to know that you have
those programs designed for the SNAP and the people that are on limited incomes. And
also, I think it's very generous for you to offer that program for people with K through
12 children, to give them affordable internet. I think that that's a key to the future, I
think, of this whole country is to provide internet services and connectivity with the
youth, and that's a way to really help. So I really appreciate what you guys are doing
there. And if you ever come up with a program for underpaid town council people,
please send me an email.
BOYETT: Will do. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you. I know this wasn't the focus of the presentation, but I'm really
interested in the Cox farming thing. Do you know where I could go to learn more about
that program? I'm very curious.
BOYETT: Yes. I will send you information about that. You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well. Thank you. I know that you remind me of old -school corporate
partners who give back to the communities. And you came through so much in the
pandemic. But my really important question that now I don't have to answer anymore
is are you going to cover the Diamondbacks games?
BOYETT: Yes, we are.
MAYOR DICKEY: And you came through on opening day. So real happy about that.
BOYETT: Channel 34.
MAYOR DICKEY: Channel 34, yep. So rather than ask that more vital sports questions, I
will make sure anybody else has any questions. No? Thank you. We appreciate you
Page 14 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
coming out. And we also know that you're available if we ever need you. So thank you
very much.
BOYETT: Thank you very much. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: We have another presentation. And this is going to be by our chief
about our first quarter update on the fire department. So is there any introduction to
that?
GOODWIN: I don't think any introduction is needed other than come on down, Chief
Ott.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: That is not Chief Ott.
GOODWIN: No, that is not.
LARSEN: I'm your PIO.
OTT: And every good chief will tell you they need a good PIO, and Bo is doing an
outstanding job. So good evening, Madam Mayor, and council. I am pleased to be here.
We are 90 days old in a couple days. I could make it, like the Academy Awards and
stand up here and thank everybody that's helped us get to this point. But that would
take all night. And Larry's told me that I only have five minutes, so I'll try to hit the
highlights. But we did have a lot of people involved all the way around the valley,
including everybody on the dais, previous members that had been on the dais, and the
supporting chiefs from all the neighboring fire departments have all been a huge part in
us getting to where we're at today at this point. And 90 days might seem like a long
time, to me it seems like it's been nine years and maybe longer if we talk about how
long it's been in the -- kind of in the works. And Scott LaGreca did a huge job in getting
us to where we are today.
So we went live January 1st, 2024, but we actually started our transition through the
Mesa Regional Dispatch Center on December 12th. And since that date, we've had
1,534 total number of event calls in Fountain Hills, and comparative to last year for the
same amount of time, we had 1,260. So we're up -- fireman math -- about 300 calls
from what we had the previous year. I don't know that that's really more of a -- it's just
a trend in how things are going, not necessarily reflective of the dispatch system itself.
Page 15 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
We do have a little bit better accountability of what the calls are through the new
dispatch than we've had previously, so that's helped us out a little bit. The total number
of calls that we were dispatched on, which also includes calls into Scottsdale, calls to Rio
Verde, calls to Fort McDowell, and some calls down on the -- up and down the Beeline
was a little bit higher. We went up 1,571. We've had about 700 calls where we've had
assistance, which we didn't necessarily have in the past. And some of that assistance is
coming from AMR with an ambulance response. That's not Ambo 341 that's stationed
up there all the time. It would be another AMR ambulance that's either moving up or
coming, because we need additional ambulances. That's included in that 700 assistance
calls there.
It also includes the number of calls that we've gotten from Phoenix Fire, where
Scottsdale Fire has assisted us on calls. It includes Rio Verde when Rio Verde comes into
town, when we've called them for assistance, and both Salt River and Fort McDowell.
So our partners in the Indian community side of things have been huge on getting us to
this point as well. Very supportive. And as always, we can't really do what we do in
Fountain Hills without the support of the Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation.
So of that I kind of went through and thought what were our biggest surprises. And I
think that it kind of goes to the amount of effort that was put into planning in the small
details that I was really kind of stumped on what, what big surprises were. I didn't wake
up any day through the transition and go, oh, we forgot this, this is a critical point, we
forgot that. There have been some minor things and we've made adjustments, but we'll
continue to do that through the rest of the life of this fire department. So no real big
surprises. We did do some additional things to help out. We added an additional
scheduling software to kind of interface with the paycheck system that the town uses
for all its employees. We are a little bit unique. Not just in being firefighters, but our
schedules and how that time works back and what that looks like to a payroll system.
And I have to give big thanks to Dave Trimble and Jeanette and Tiffany in being able to
help us get payroll processed every two weeks. But we went out and found this
scheduling program that's really geared more towards the fire service. Dave and his
Page 16 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
staff thought that it would be a big benefit, so we went ahead and bought that. That
was something that we hadn't really planned on, but it was a $4,000 addition that we
thought was well worth it. And I think Dave will agree that it saves a lot of time and it's
just down to some manual input opposed to trying to mesh two systems that would
never talk to each other.
Kind of one of our other accomplishments that we've made so far is we have probably
pretty close to 90 percent of the intergovernmental agreements in place that we'll need
to kind of move forward. And those are mutual aid agreements with Fort McDowell, Rio
Verde, Salt River. Scottsdale, we finally just signed off on that two weeks ago. I
appreciate that. That was a big check mark off of my board as well. We also have
training IGAs with the City of Glendale for their GRPSTC facility. And we're in the
process of finalizing the IGA for training with Mesa. We have IGAs for Mesa Regional
Dispatch Center for our dispatch. We have an IGA with the TRWC, which is Topaz
Regional Wireless Cooperative that is also a component of our dispatch center. We
have a couple other IGAs that are slipping my mind, but I know I've got a stack of them
on my desk, and I've only got a couple more to bring to you. So I appreciate your
patience as we move forward with that.
I think our biggest challenges that I look at moving forward will probably be along the
lines of recruitment, but that's going to be years down the road. The fire service as a
whole is having a challenge with recruitment. I don't see us being any different,
although this is the best place, definitely in the valley, to work and probably the state, so
we'll go off of that. And I think that a lot of people have called initially just to find out
whether we're hiring, when we're going to hire, so from my standpoint, that's a good
sign. That I've had people all across the country and all across the valley want to know
how they can get in and be a part of Fountain Hills Fire Department.
I think one of the other things moving forward will just be making sure that we can
adjust to everything that happens. And there's fire departments around the valley that
are decreasing the call types that they go on. And that's purely because they can't keep
up with the volume of calls that they have. And they felt it's necessary to eliminate
Page 17 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
some of those call types. And I hope that we never get to that point, because that's a
lack in service and we're all about the service. I joke about us being a full service
department, we'll do just about everything and anything that will benefit the residents
of the town. So we look forward to another fantastic 90 days and just keep multiplying
as we go.
I'll be happy to answer any questions if you do.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
FRIEDEL: Chief, thanks very much for the orderly, smooth transition. And I think it's
been pretty seamless to the residents in the town and to us up here, too. So you're very
detailed and organized. We appreciate that. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other comments or questions for the chief? Thank you. No? Well,
I think everybody is very grateful for the way this has worked out, and I'm glad that we
could get the agreement with Scottsdale done, and anything else that comes up we're
happy to look at and get us on the way. Do you need anything from us?
OTT: Madam Mayor, council, I do not, just your continued support. And I would be
remiss if I did commend my staff; they're just super. I can't think of a better group of
people to work with.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you so much. Thanks, sir.
Our next item is call to the public, which are for items that are not on the agenda.
Please state your name and the city or town that you are from. Sorry.
MENDENHALL: That's okay. Mayor, we do have four comment cards for call to the
public. We will start off with Eric Wyckoff, and then on deck is Liz Gildersleeve.
WYCKOFF: I'll read this to you in my wife's beautiful glasses. Quite stylish because I've
forgot mine. So I'm sure I look fabulous. This is going to be polarizing. I think it's rare
you get a person like me that actually comes in here and speaks to you. My name is Eric
Wyckoff. Speaking here today I now fear for my own career. All I say applies thrice -fold
to fire departments, ironically enough. I've been a law enforcement officer for over 30
years, the vast majority in a supervisory capacity. I've resided in town nearly that long. I
have never spoken or attended this forum before until called to do so now. Recently, I
Page 18 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
was unlawfully detained -- never thought this would happen in my life -- by an MCSO
deputy pursuant to a traffic stop. During this time, he issued me a written warning after
telling me other town citizens received very expensive citations for the same thing.
Remember that.
Upon consultation and garnering unanimous concurring support from many -- north of
20 colleagues -- I complained that my Fourth Amendment rights were violated by the
Maricopa County Sheriff's Department. I was concerned about a false public record
issued in my name, with no due process to defend myself because it was a written
warning. MCSO's professional standards failed to properly investigate the matter by
never contacting me, suppressing relevant video evidence of the event, and while
drafting a copy to the offending deputy and his union, while never drafting a copy to the
citizen at this time, me. Consider that. Remember it. Why? Police aren't heroes.
Police are not villains. Police are bureaucrats. They're employees. They exist to protect
the bureaucracy, with protection of people a mere afterthought. I've been doing this 30
years, been a supervisor, 22 of it. Okay? Saying such, I now fear for my own career.
Due to union strength, there is little accountability for police. In my case, the MCSO
system clearly worked to cover for their deputy; this is what bureaucracies do. About
40 percent of your budget is public safety work. To minimize this, from my experience,
you cut your expenditures 25 percent and notice no difference. They are largely playing
video games behind businesses or churches. Fountain Hills is a distant suburb separated
by mountains from the valley. The hilly terrain and wealth of the area largely insulates
us from crime. Deputies call it fountain berry here -- think Mayberry. Reduce this
overhead and put it into crime prevention through environmental design accepted. If
you wish to reduce crime, make this place as nice as possible with the money that you
save. It's the perfect town to add impressive guard gates, possibly arches to points of
entrance and exit along Shea north of town. I'm not saying block them, I'm just saying
make it nice. So nice that criminals go, whoa, I'm not there. I've been doing it 30 years.
It makes the biggest difference of anything I've seen. If you choose not -- I'm almost
done -- at least take an active role in supervising MCSO. View their GPS. They'll fight
Page 19 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
you. See them sitting still for hours, or perhaps doing meaningless things. Be active --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, sir.
WYCKOFF: -- conduct impromptu time, motion studies, or activities. You may be
astonished it has been allowed to develop this far --
MAYOR DICKEY: Sir, time is up. I'm sorry.
WYCKOFF: -- through the strong unions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Your time is up. I'm sorry.
WYCKOFF: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
WYCKOFF: I'm almost done. I have two seconds.
MAYOR DICKEY: No, no, everybody gets three minutes. I'm sorry, sir. We just have to
be fair. Thank you.
WYCKOFF: Okay. I'll send you all an email with the remaining then. Okay. It had that
much left. Thank you.
Everybody needs to wake up to the police.
GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening all. Liz Gildersleeve, Fountain Hills resident. I wanted to
talk tonight about the ethics complaint that I filed last week against Councilmember
Kalivianakis with our town manager as a result of a recent public records request for
communications between Kalivianakis and Sandor regarding a parking agreement, I
received an email conversation between Kalivianakis and Justin Eller which stated that
he wants Kalivianakis', quote, "personal email address to send documents. We don't
want these in the public domain". End quote. Also included is Kalivianakis' prompt
response to him confirming her personal email address, demonstrating a clear intent
and willingness to receive information.
This email conversation should be disturbing to everyone, including those of you on the
dais. Hiding information from the public is never okay. There are better ways
Kalivianakis could have responded to Eller. Readily sharing a private email address is not
one of them, and confirms a cozy relationship with the developer, just as many of us --
excuse me -- many of us had indicated during several call to publics at the January 17th
Page 20 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
town council meeting before the Sandor vote, where, coincidentally, Kalivianakis voted
in favor of the Sandor high -density apartment project.
Worth noting is that the two easement agreements between the Sandor representative
and Target, that were received as part of the same public records request, were fully
executed a day after the December 2023 meeting, where the planning and zoning
commission voted against the Sandor proposal and one month prior to the town council
meeting. It's as if Sandor already knew that they had had enough votes on the council
to push their project forward. Given the inappropriate email exchange between Sandor
and Kalivianakis that I just read to you, one could assume they did.
During the January 17th town council meeting, Kalivianakis vehemently denied any
impropriety with Sandor, her email exchange with Sandor, which opens up many
questions, suggests otherwise. For a councilmember to so willingly share a private
email with the express purpose of hiding information from public view is clearly an
ethics violation.
What other communications and documents were sent to Kalivianakis' private email
account? Can any explanation from Kalivianakis be believed or trusted at this point?
Thank you for your time and attention tonight.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Chris Enos and on deck, Ed Stizza.
ENOS: Sorry. I guess I should have stuck to the front here. All right. I actually have two
things but I only have time for one. The other is an agenda item, so if it's all right, I'll
come back to address that one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. Could you say what city you're from, please? I'm sorry. What
town?
ENOS: I'm Chris Enos and I live here in Fountain Hills.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
ENOS: And I'm here to talk about what I see now as ethics wars. It's sort of like high
school. And with all due respect, I said it once, I don't like repeating myself. Don't make
me come back again. This is what you got to do. You got to reform your provisions of
your town code that deal with ethics. Right now, they're not very clear. I said that
Page 21 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
before.
Secondly, every councilmember up here has rights and duties. You have a right and a
duty to investigate before making a vote. So you can have a conversation with Satan
himself if you want to, if it's going to help you make a vote on something and it's
perfectly legitimate, there's nothing wrong with that. Secondly, you have a right to ask
questions. There are questions asked. There was questions asked before as I brought
out before. That's not an ethics violation. So with all due respect, let's not revisit what
we did in high school. Let's now put on your big boy pants, have your friends hold their
water, toughen up. This is an agenda that you have to deal with, these are real issues
that you have to deal with, and we don't have time for little name-calling between
councilmembers. I appreciate you doing your job up here, I really do. What is it? $400
a month. It ain't worth it. What I got to say is, I appreciate you doing your job. I hope
you aren't dissuaded from continuing to try to do your job and your due diligence and
asking your questions, simply because some people may complain about it in public and
behind your back, or otherwise.
So thank you for being council people; continue to do your jobs and let's everybody put
on their big boy pants.
MENDENHALL: That's it for public comment. I'm sorry, Ed. I'm sorry, Ed.
STIZZA: Good evening, Madam Mayor, vice mayor, council, and -- sorry -- staff and
Aaron. Hope everybody had a great Easter. So yeah, no -- I should. Okay. I was going
to bring popcorn in case anybody wanted some while I was speaking.
So -- anyway there's so much happening within our town right now that is absolutely
embarrassing. And I, too, attended the civility meeting, and I sure hope all of you learn
something from it also, the ones that attended. I think it has been -- I'm kind of in
shock, actually, that we don't have a public barrage of Allen Skillicorn tonight, thank
God, you know. So I think it has gotten completely out of hand and obviously somebody
has talked to the people that are sitting right behind me that have not gotten up here
today and spoke at call to the public. I'm absolutely grateful for that because everything
that's been said about Allen and the processes that were done were absolutely uncalled
Page 22 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
for. And it's sad. It's sad. So hopefully everybody learned something from this. I really,
really hope so.
I learned a few things from the civility meeting. Okay. Didn't agree with everything.
But one of the things I really didn't understand at the last meeting is why, Mayor Dickey,
you stopped me from speaking on behalf of Allen Skillicorn. So -- you did. And we have
all turned our cards in to speak at the last minute. And the last gentleman to speak also
spoke or turned in his card right before I did at the last minute. And that allowed me,
unfortunately, I made it late to the meeting and I missed call to the public, but I was
standing in this room and handed over my speaker card during that agenda item. So I
was told I wasn't allowed to speak, and I had more than enough time to be able to do
that.
So a couple things on -- oh, I wish to God that we would have better communications on
the projects that are going on around town. I know you had a CIP meeting, okay, but at
same token, not everybody gets to see that. I've had several questions about what's
going on, and I'm pretty astute at looking at the way things are done. I have a
tremendous background in design and architecture, construction, and I don't think we
get enough knowledge out to the public. Okay. I was going to talk about our shade
structure being pushed into the Centennial Circle. And unfortunately -- I'll abide by the
rules. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Just real quick, Linda. We -- once an item starts, we don't take any
more speaker cards. So once it's actually been called, correct?
MENDENHALL: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Vice mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Kind of a long story. It might take a few
minutes. It might even be called a filibuster. But what Ms. Gildersleeve said has been
parroted by a number of other people in our community. It's been part of what they
would call an astroturf campaign on social media, where they called for people to file
ethics charges against me, early and often, as many as you can. It'll make Brenda look
bad. There's been a lot of really harsh comparisons of me being the Joker, and I guess
Page 23 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
they think I'm trying to kill Batman, even, which I'm not trying to do. It comes from a
councilmember that's sitting right on this dais. Because if you look at what he's called
for on Allen's own page, he says something stinks in Fountain Hills. I'm talking about
Referendum Gate, where he's comparing the referendum to Watergate and that this
town is corrupt. Phony ethics sanctions, which were filed in good faith, and which were
upheld by an attorney that does these things. And lastly, the cover-up of developer
emails, that's where it comes in to me. And that's where I think people like Ms.
Gildersleeve and other people have been led astray by our town councilmember, which
they trust. They shouldn't.
Prior to the council voting on the target agreement, constituents claim that no parking
agreement existed, and many of those people were from the Reclaim Our Town. I took
those concerns seriously as well, as we didn't have a fire truck that was tall enough to go
to the top of the building that the sanitation department couldn't service the building,
and that the P.A.D. and the P.U.D. conferred more land use rights, which they did not.
So regarding the parking agreement, they alleged the Sandor lied to the planning and
zoning committee and to our staff. To address these concerns, like any conscientious
councilmember would do, I requested a copy of the parking agreement between Target
and Sandor, which is my right. I respected the chain of leadership by requesting our
town manager and attorney to obtain a copy of the agreement so I can make a fully
informed vote. This is similar to what we do in the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary,
we respect the chain. I did not reach out to Sandor. I had some -- I had the chain reach
out. I told them that my constituents were concerned this agreement didn't exist. And
in order for me to vote with it -- and if Sandor lied, I would be a no -vote. And I even
made this revelation to Gerry. My intent was like Ronald Reagan's, trust but verify.
The day before the vote, I received an email from a representative of the project asking
if this was my personal email address, which I confirmed it was. Quickly, yes, because I
get back to all my emails quickly.
It's important now to note, too, that if I had been communicating and had all these
communications with Sandor, then why would they even ask me if this is my correct
Page 24 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
email address? They would have already had it. They didn't. That's why they were
confirming it. And I had that one communication with them, that's all. I did not quibble
with them about an alternative address. My sole interest was to confirm to the public
that the parking agreement existed, as Sandor had agreed that it did.
Regarding Mr. Eller's comment that we don't want these in the public domain. I didn't
care. That wasn't my concern. My concern was, did they have the agreement or not?
The very fact that he was sending it to a public official made it obvious that this could be
FOIA'ed, which it was on my personal email and which I turned over when I received the
FOIA request, immediately. Because I wasn't hiding anything.
The following that night, on January 17th, I verified the existence of the written parking
agreement publicly and more importantly, I disclosed the existence of the email
promptly and publicly at the same meeting. This is fully transparent. This is how the
public knows about the email to begin with, and Ms. Gildersleeve, is because I said it
here that the email existed. I said they sent me the email. The whole process was
transparent from the beginning to the end.
Councilmember Skillicorn must be aware that these contracts contain proprietary
information.
SKILLICORN: Point of order.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- after all --
SKILLICORN: Point of order, Madam Mayor.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- he tells us he owns a business.
MAYOR DICKEY: Hold on one second. Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Or vice mayor.
SKILLICORN: I'm curious of our ethics rules about using -- how you speak to about
another councilmember in the chamber from the dais.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, she's responding to a criticism at call to the public, and I'm
allowing that.
SKILLICORN: It sounds awfully like she's making some accusations that do not uphold
Page 25 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
the values of our ethics rules.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. You almost done, Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Almost.
MAYOR DICKEY: Could you keep it to that a little -- as much as you can so that you're
defending yourself, but you're not --
KALIVIANAKIS: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
KALIVIANAKIS: Anyway, these documents that they didn't want in the public domain
was understandably proprietary in nature between Sandor and Target.
I just want to emphasize it was the contract documents attached to the email that the
applicant wanted to keep private. It was not the email to me. That's the whole key
here. They didn't care about the email. To me, it was the Target parking agreement.
They didn't want their competitors and other people to see how they resolved these
situations in Fountain Hills. It was a contract between two private companies that they
wanted to keep secret. It wasn't the fact that they sent it to me because once again, I
stated it publicly.
So this is really unfortunate, but that's the explanation. This was done with
transparency. They sent me the email. I did it on behalf of my constituents, most of
which were the people that are in Reclaim Our Town. Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We'll move on to the consent agenda, please. Is there a
motion?
GRZYBOWSKI: Move to approve.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: I have a motion and a second. Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth.
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
Page 26 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Passes unanimously.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Our first agenda item is item 9.A, resolution 2024-15,
directing the town attorney to not oppose Maricopa County Superior Court action and
properly communicate such non -opposition to the court.
Aaron, would you like to introduce this item, please?
ARNSON: Mayor, I'll keep the introduction brief. I refer the council to the staff
summary that provides the background of this item. We just finished up an executive
session that was set for 4:30, where I provided legal advice in a privileged setting and
subject to that attorney -client privilege and I won't share that information here. As set
forth in the staff report, staff recommends denial. I'm available for any questions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We will start with speaker cards.
MENDENHALL: Mayor, yes, we do have speaker cards, but also in your electronic packet
you have 38 comment cards, 37 against, and 1 for. And you do have one in writing that
just wishes to comment in writing that they're against this action. Now, we do have
several speaker cards. And so starting out first is Crystal Cavanaugh. And on deck is Kim
Wolborsky.
CAVANAUGH: Crystal Cavanaugh, Fountain Hills. According to the staff report, the
town clerk discovered that ROT included an incorrect serial number on the back of every
petition sheet. Just to clarify, Reclaim Our Town did not include this small number. It
was already present, almost like a form number on the notary side, when we received
Page 27 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
the hard copy petition on January 18th from the town clerk. We never said it was done
maliciously or on purpose, but the coverup stories and misinformation that have been
circulated have been concerning. And for the record, we never received a flash drive.
All the front-page information on the petition was filed in by Reclaim Our Town. It was
correct. And that is what was viewed by those who signed the single -page petitions.
The back number did not impact anything at all. In fact, on tonight's executive session
agenda and the regular agenda, two out of the three times the case number was listed,
it was incorrect. One time it was missing an eight, the other time it was missing two
zeros. But none of those numeric errors on the agenda will negate the discussion
tonight. Mistakes do happen.
With regards to the resolution, as the staff reports states, it was sent to you from a
member of the republic. So let me go on the record now and say it was not Reclaim Our
Town, as is the rumor. And it was not our attorney, who is Timothy La Sota. Clouding
the people's understanding of this, the local Chamber of Commerce CEO sent out a very
misleading email this week, misrepresenting the agenda item and reducing it down to
the town is not defending their employees, and she called it an egregious ask. She
opposes this resolution because the town must defend the employee, and then would
you want to be employed by an organization that would not defend your actions? So
she asked for people to show up and speak up.
Not only is that not what this resolution states, this is an overreach of her position and
an inappropriate activism on her part. I would hope this council recognizes that this
resolution is about standing with the citizens of Fountain Hills. It is about recognizing
that in a short time period, almost 20 percent of the registered voters signed petitions
to get this on the November ballot and to have a say for a significant reason. As it is, the
town has not actually even been defending thus far. They're listed in the lawsuit, but it
appears that the developer's attorneys are the ones doing the talking and the writing of
the motions or replies. From what I have seen as a direct participant in this lawsuit, the
town is letting the developer call the shots. The people should have a say. It would be
most beneficial to the community that you are representing to reverse your course and
Page 28 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
take the side of the over 1,800-plus residents who simply want a voice in this rezone
process in November. I am in support of the resolution, and the town should notify the
court that they will not oppose the lawsuit, and they will keep counting and work for the
people of Fountain Hills. Thank you.
K. WOLBORSKY: Madam Mayor, council, staff. My name is Kim Wolborsky and I'm a
resident of Fountain Hills. And as always, I'm incredibly grateful for that. Every day,
even today here in the town council meeting.
I'm speaking in favor of resolution 24-15 -- 2024-15 -- I got the numbers wrong, which
directs the town attorney not to oppose the application for relief pending in the
Maricopa County Court. If there's a legal issue that requires rewording of this
resolution, I hope the council can get that done now so the resolution can be passed
tonight. And I'd like to thank the councilmembers that put it on the agenda for tonight.
I was one of the citizens who helped collect the signatures for these petitions. We were
able to collect enough signatures to get these measures passed in an extremely short
period of time, which strongly suggests that there's a lot of support for them among the
town voters. This was the first time I've collected signatures like this, so I wasn't
surprised by the folks who pass by or weren't interested. After all, until I retired that's
often what I did. What surprised me was how many signers and also folks who couldn't
sign because they're snowbirds and they don't vote in Fountain Hills, thanked me
effusively for doing the work and how many started conversations -- sometimes I had to
cut them off -- on how unhappy they were about the town -- how the town council
passed the developer's requests through with almost no adjustments. Many didn't
want any apartments in a solely commercial industrial area without access to parks or
walkable restaurants. They were concerned about the safety of the residents and/or
that apartments on our busiest and fastest street and next to noisy businesses would
fail and be a blot on Shea Boulevard. Many, especially those who will have the building
in the view from their homes, but many others as well, were really upset about the
height and size of the building. Many were worried that we would lose our only large
area for commercial, especially if other apartments fill the shopping center. Or that this
Page 29 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
could lead to losing our industrial area, especially if eventually enough apartment
dwellers complain about the noise from the businesses nearby. Many wanted the
apartments to have enough parking, which they do not have. Others were still
concerned about the size of the sign that's going to be in the Target parking lot, and so
on.
It would be a huge mistake for the town to disallow these measures based on a clerical
error, when clearly the will of the voters is to have them on the ballot. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Barry Wolborsky, and on deck, Beth Culp.
B. WOLBORSKY: Barry Wolborsky, resident of Fountain Hills. Frequent flier. I'm going
to repeat what Crystal said when she started off, because it's important. The petition
sheet is signed by the voters on the front side, which contained the correct petition
number and description. The back side of the sheet is never seen by the petition signer.
It is only used by the signature gatherer to have signed and stamped by a notary, stating
that the gatherer did gather those signatures. In no way did the incorrect number on
the back of the petition influence one voter ever.
The council will vote on this issue tonight, and they will obscure the reality of the issue
with pseudo -legal issues. Since the developer has spent no additional funds while
awaiting the resolution of this issue, there would be no damages in a lawsuit. What I
understand about lawsuits is no damages, no validity in the lawsuit. But there are two
types of councilmembers before you tonight. Those who value and respect the voters
who are their constituents and those that don't. Those who don't will give lengthy legal
and emotional rationalizations for their negative vote. But there's another ballot
coming this summer. That ballot is for the election of town councilmembers and the
mayor, and by this summer, all the rationalizations will be forgotten. But rest assured,
those on the council who voted to disrespect the voters and stifle their right to voice
their opinions in an important town issue will be well remembered.
CULP: Good evening. My name is Beth Culp, and I'm a resident of Fountain Hills. I can't
believe that we're actually having this hearing. I can't believe that three members of
this body agreed to put a resolution on the agenda that would direct the town attorney
Page 30 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
to act unethically by failing to defend litigation in which the town, the mayor, and six
councilmembers, and the town clerk are named as individual defendants. If the
resolution passes and the litigation is not defended, a default judgment will be entered.
The town, the councilmembers, the mayor, the town clerk will be deemed to have
admitted every single one of the many false allegations in that complaint. ROT would
then claim that it's entitled to the relief it is requested. The town clerk would be
ordered to accept the signature sheets, which on their face, I'm sorry, do not comply
with the requirements of the statute. The statute very clearly and pointedly says that
the petition number must appear on the front page and on the back page. The correct
petition number indisputably was not on the back page. And this council doesn't have
the discretion to overlook that statutory requirement. The town clerk doesn't have the
discretion to overlook that. So, if the town clerk were ordered to accept the faulty
signature sheets, she would be essentially being ordered to do something that was
illegal.
This is not something that you can simply say, oh, everyone makes mistakes. This
mistake was fatal to that petition to that referendum. You agreed to conduct your
official affairs in such a manner as to give a clear impression that you cannot be
improperly influenced in the performance of your official duties. You agreed to
represent the official policies and positions of the town council. A majority of the
elected representatives of this council voted in favor of the zoning change that allowed
for the Four Peaks project to go forward. But rather than support this official decision,
three of you appear to be poised to bend over backwards to support the efforts of a
vocal minority. And make no mistake about it, they are a minority. And in terms of
that, it's important to recall that when they were out getting signatures, one of the
narratives that they employed -- and this is a quote. "The zoning change would lead to
the active recruitment of poor people of color to live in the community."
I urge you to reject this illegal act. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Matthew Corrigan and then on deck Betsy LaVoie.
CORRIGAN: Mayor, councilmembers. Matthew Corrigan, resident, Fountain Hills. I
Page 31 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
stand in support of 2024-15. On December 15th, 1791, our American founding fathers,
with great wisdom and insight and foresight, ratified the amendments to the
Constitution. Amendment 1 reads this way, "Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the
freedom of speech, or of the press, or of the people to peaceably assemble and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances." In a very short amount of time,
many concerned citizens willingly offered their free volunteer time and energy to
circulate a petition and petition sheets in an effort to send the rezone decision, which
had been decided by four councilmembers to a ballot referendum, so the voters of
Fountain Hills could decide their future.
Over 1,800 residents of Fountain Hills signed the petition sheets in order that their right
to vote could be protected, and current zoning ordinances and to maintain ordinances
which had protected the Town of Fountain Hills from very high -density housing in the
past. Again a member of the of the public, not a slim majority of the town council, sent
the town a draft resolution directing the town attorney not to oppose the lawsuit. The
town attorney should not oppose the lawsuit and should inform the court of this. This
allows the town clerk to continue her statutory review process and forward signatures
to the county recorder for verification.
Not only do people have the right to be heard to express their grievances by the petition
process, but that process should be allowed to go forward. Our founding fathers
believed this so strongly that they included this in the First Amendment to the
Constitution. We should defend this right and not oppose it. Approve resolution
Revolution -- sorry. Resolution 2024-15 and let the people have the right to decide this
zoning future for our Town of Fountain Hills. It's that important. It's an issue which
should stand on principle and the Constitution, not accusations, rumor, gossip,
innuendo, insult at times. We're bigger than that, I think. I hope we are. Thank you.
LAVOIE: Good evening, Betsy LaVoie, Fountain Hills resident. I stand before you tonight
to express our strong opposition to the proposed resolution that would direct the town
attorney to refrain from opposing the lawsuit filed by ROT against the town, the town
Page 32 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
councilmembers, the town clerk, and the project developers.
It is concerning that this resolution would essentially condone an attempt to circumvent
established procedures and undermine the democratic process. The actions taken by
ROT, including the circulation of petition sheets with incorrect serial numbers, are
unacceptable and undermine the integrity of our local governance. The town clerk, in
accordance with statutory mandates, acted appropriately. It is her duty to ensure the
accuracy and validity of such petitions and her actions should be supported, not
undermined.
Allowing ROT to proceed with their lawsuit unchecked sets a dangerous precedent. It
sends a message that political action committees can disregard rules and regulations
without consequence. This not only erodes the public trust in our institutions, but also
creates a breeding ground for further abuse of this system. Furthermore, by not
opposing the lawsuit, the town would be neglecting its responsibility to uphold the
decisions made by duly elected officials. The rezoning requests were approved by the
town council after careful consideration and considerable public input. Allowing the
lawsuit to proceed uncontested would undermine the authority of this council and
diminish the significance of your decisions. I urge you to reject the proposed resolution
and to stand firm to support the town clerk and the integrity of our local governance
process. Let us uphold the rule of law and ensure that decisions made by our elected
representatives are respected and upheld. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Tammy Bell and on deck, Chris Enos.
BELL: Tammy Bell, a resident of Fountain Hills. Mayor, vice mayor, council, and staff, I
am thankful to be able to express my opposition to this proposed resolution. As a
resident, I value and desire the trustworthiness of our town attorney and our staff to
defend the process and conduct their due diligence when situations like this surface.
Of course, our residents have a right to be heard. The process of the referendum should
not be allowed to proceed though if frustrated by errors. If found, all errors should be
discovered transparently without deceit or hidden agendas. Denying this motion is of
significant importance to uphold the integrity of our town staff and governance. A
Page 33 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
•
substantial number of residents have been involved regarding both sides of this town
matter. Our town staff must now be given the support and the opportunity to provide
evidence and explanation to all of those concerned with this process and deemed it --
where she deemed referendum failure.
As a resident, I want to be assured that my town attorney, the town staff, and elected
officials are following proper procedures and act with complete accountability and
transparency. It appears that those discrepancies on both sides -- both. Crystal stood
here saying there were there were discrepancies and the town clerk has said so as well.
I don't understand why we would deny them the right to defend that and to be able to
show the evidence that they have.
So I am asking and urging you to reject this resolution in order to defend staff and the
process and allow them to display evidence for this local matter. Thank you.
ENOS: That's a little closer to the front that time. Okay. Sorry to take up your time, but
this is important. This is not a resolution for or against the original rezoning. Everybody
of good sound mind and good reasoning can have different positions on that. That's
fine.
This is about representative government and this basically acknowledges that, yeah, you
took an oath. An oath basically was to be a representative for the people of this town.
Some of you I had conversations with in the past about this. And in this case you have
legal arguments; legal arguments can be made. You don't have to make those
arguments to say that the town is not going to be in a position to take a position on
those legal arguments. Sandor has its attorneys. They got a lot of attorneys, well -paid
ones. I've met some of them. And I can tell you, you are the only thing the people have.
They don't have high -paid attorneys. They have you. And 1,800 people have indicated a
voice that they want to say in what happens in this particular proposition. So again, you
may be for it and just acknowledge, okay, we acknowledge the fact that 1,800 people
really want to have a say in this, and we want to acknowledge that as well. Don't
capitulate to the detriment of the town. That's not about -- that's not what this is
about. Rather, empower your town attorney to seek a resolution, a settlement. And in
Page 34 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
that settlement, he can protect the interests of the town employees, all of whom --
you're all good employees, by the way. I like every one of you. The town can be
protected. And at the same time, you can allow the court to decide -- after Sandor
makes its arguments, the court to decide versus the plaintiff's attorney whether or not
all those legalistic arguments about numbers and back or front have merit. It's just your
position that you're saying, we recognize 1,800 people have a right to have a say in this
matter. We, as council people, have a duty to represent those people's interests much
as a lawyer represents a client. And you, as the representative of the people then are
merely saying, hey, court, do whatever you're going to do on this matter, but we're not
going to have a say in it, we're not going to defend on it. Subject to receiving adequate
assurances of protection for every member of this council, every employee of the town,
and the town itself.
That's what this resolution does. It doesn't take a position on the proposal. It allows
the people -- may or may not after the lawsuit is complete, possibly then to have a say
in their own town. That's what you're here to do. You're here to protect the interests
of the people. I respectfully submit that's all this resolution does.
MENDENHALL: And we have one final speaker and that's Ed Stizza.
STIZZA: Good evening again. We got a big question. Why don't we back this all up to
when this all first started? And I'd like to know why the people that voted for this
project want this so badly. Okay. Whether it's our Chamber, the people up there that
voted for it, there's something to be said about that. There's also something to be said
about -- I watched the process of the signatures getting signed, and I know for a fact
that there are several people in this room that tried to stop it. And for you guys to just
circumvent this and not listen to the voice of the public on this project, which has its
problems. None of you that voted yes listened to P&Z. They were way more
knowledgeable on this and gave you all the information that you needed, and you
pushed it through and you pushed it through fast. So you wonder why the public that
has some common sense actually is questioning that. Why don't you answer those
questions? Back up a little bit. But you should certainly allow the public to be able to
Page 35 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
make this decision because this has gone that far and it's your own fault.
So somebody tell me why this project is so important to Fountain Hills. Answer that.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I think we're done with the public comment aspect. So the
council is free to discuss. Anybody want to start? Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I just want to make a note just so people
know the kind of order of sequence and how things happened. About a month ago, a
constituent reached out, had this idea, this resolution to potentially stand down. And I
did request to put it on the agenda. I do look at this as a situation that I think a judge is
going to decide no matter what. Developers are going to get involved, and they have
plenty of experience suing and being in court. And attorneys are expensive and rather
I'd rather not have the town be involved in the legal mess of this. The ideas of us paying
for our attorney to defend this is expensive. That money could be used elsewhere.
We've got a very large backlog for roads. Why go ahead with this when the developer is
going to pay for themselves? And that's the reason I kind of pushed for this. And I think
it's going to be decided in court anyways, with or without our involvement. The facts
are going to come out, the judge is going to decide, and either way. And I don't know
why we have to be that involved in it. And frankly, the people that signed that petition,
circulated that petition, they're my constituents too. So not only did one of my
constituents come to me and ask me to put this resolution on the agenda, my
constituents are also part of the process. And I think that's a pretty darn good reason.
And frankly, I represent the people. I do not represent the developers.
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. When I first heard about this resolution, I thought it was a
good idea to have a discussion on it and to give some direction to maybe seek a
different resolution with this. So I'm in favor of the resolution. I'm in favor of the 1,800-
plus residents of this town that voiced their interest in having this go to a vote. I don't
think it's throwing any town employees under the bus for us to seek some sort of
resolution with this lawsuit and to have the town -- I have full faith and credibility with
Linda Mendenhall and everybody sitting up here. So this isn't a slam to anybody. It's
Page 36 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
not disparaging anybody.
But I think -- and it's not a partisan thing. There are a lot of people that I know that
were on the other side of where I stand that signed this petition for this thing. I wasn't
involved with it. I haven't had any conversations with it, but I'm in favor of the
resolution because I think it's something that we should explore and see if there's a
better, a better way to handle this. So that's all I have to say. Thank you, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. I'm kind of surprised this one made the
agenda, too. You know I'm a lawyer, I think everyone knows that. This country just
affords people process -- due process. That's what it affords. It doesn't guarantee
outcome. It doesn't even guarantee justice. If you're going to court, don't look for
justice, right, Chris? Because a lot of times you won't find it there. There is a process
for handling this. We don't live in a country that has a direct democracy, and that the
constituents vote for every issue. We have a process that you vote for your
representatives, you give them suggestions, and they have a lot of information that they
use to do what they want, what they deem in the best interest for the town. In this
case, the Target Center revitalization project, to revitalize that section of town is, I think,
critically important to the future of Fountain Hills. Which is -- that's why I voted for it.
That being said, this kind of comes up every four years with the Electoral College too, by
the way. Is it fair for a presidential election to come down to who got the more votes or
who won the Electoral College? It's kind of the same principle. There are laws here.
The laws direct that we shall be represented by council. Now, I've got the lawsuit here
on my little phone. And if you want to break it down to its very basics, it's Reclaim Our
Town versus Jenny, Brenda, Allen, Peggy, Hannah, Blue, Gerry, and Rachael, and Linda,
of course. Don't forget Linda. That's what it comes down to. It's people. We're being
sued because we represent the town. And I'll tell you one thing. I don't want to lay
down my lawyer and say, you know what? Take a break and we'll just take our chances
out there. It's a process. He'll represent the town. Sandor will represent Sandor. Our
interests don't always align. And that's kind of the way I look at it.
Page 37 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Now, interestingly enough, on the resolution, it says "Will be frustrated due to what
may have been an inadvertent clerical error." Like, come on, it's no big deal. It's just a
little clerical error. Let's go back. That's ridiculous. Okay. To say that we're not going
to get voted into office because we're respecting the law is ridiculous. It's just like the
guy that came up here and said, if you issue me a speeding ticket, I'm not going to vote
for you. I think that's what he said. We just follow the law here, regardless of the
consequences.
Now, this argument about inadvertent clerical errors, this harkens back to a couple of
months ago, when Frank Quinn and Fountain Hills Roasters had four applications for
signs that he wanted to build around Fountain Hills. And he got two of the signs in on
time. And then his clerical -- his manager took ill, had to be rushed to the hospital, and
they didn't get the other two filed. And so he came to me and I went to the mayor, and
we put that on the agenda. And I asked for a hardship exception. I said he was going to
file those, but there's a hardship exception because she took ill. So can we go ahead
and process those two applications, of which this council said, no, we don't make
exceptions. We follow the rules. You guys were really clear on that.
One of the speakers was the chairman of ROT that very same night, interestingly
enough. She described the process that went through planning and zoning and went to
council. And she looked at me and she said she didn't like the exception rule of me
letting Frank fill out his two signs. She said, if you start giving exceptions like this, where
does it end? Who gets special treatment? Who does not? This is directly quoted from
the transcript of that town council meeting. What's the criteria to get special
exemption? How many days after the deadline is acceptable? Is it two days past the
deadline or a month? This isn't some archaic, out-of-date ordinance on the books that
hasn't been looked at in years. It was just passed in October, November. Kind of like
here. Would you allow me to put up a beautiful electronic orange and blue flashing
Reclaim Our Town sign if I now requested it after the expiration date? I think you get
my point, Crystal said. This is a salient point here. She said we have ordinances to
provide consistent guidelines to follow regarding what is acceptable here in Fountain
Page 38 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Hills and what is not. This is nothing personal here against these two applicants, but
they're past the deadline. Sorry. Okay.
So we're going to follow the process to the end, which means we're going to get
defended by our town attorney. It'll go to the court. They're looking at it right now as
far as who made the mistake. They'll make a determination and we'll go from there.
But as far as taking leniency on an inadvertent clerical error, I think that ship has sailed.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I just have a quick question. Are we going to continue just
calling out residents and constituents like this? Is this a new policy of ours to call
residents by name and mock them and attack them?
MAYOR DICKEY: I don't think anybody is being mocked. You feel mocked being quoted?
I'm sorry. I don't want to -- I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to do this. But no, I
think we're trying to defend something. We've heard a lot of things being flung our
way, and I think that we have the ability to respond to them.
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I think the point is that --
MAYOR DICKEY: And this is not the first time this has happened either.
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I don't think this has anything to do with the person that
was called out in the audience, though. This is a different constituent asked to have
this. I don't see even the connection. It's illogical to bring it into it because there isn't a
connection there.
MAYOR DICKEY: There's a connection and I allowed it.
SKILLICORN: Are you insinuating that there's a connection, Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me. Who's next?
MCMAHON: I will.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you. I'm listening to what everybody said, and the essence of this is
a strict compliance to state statute by the circulators of the petition and by our town
clerk. The fact of the matter is, is we are being sued. Linda's named in the lawsuit, I'm
Page 39 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
named in the lawsuit, and all fellow councilmembers are. Who doesn't think when
you're sued, what is your first thought? To defend yourself? It's a fundamental right.
Even the criminally accused, have a fundamental right to legal counsel, to present their
case and defend themselves. Our code even recognizes this right and the need for the
town and the town council to have legal counsel in defense of lawsuits brought against
them. Under our ordinance 31-2, the town attorney shall ensure. The town is
represented by legal counsel in the prosecution or the defense of all suits, actions, or
causes where the town is a party.
If the three councilmembers who put this on the agenda choose to not be represented,
that's their choice. I choose to be represented and defend myself. To not provide a
legal defense for the town, to me, would expose the town to undue financial risk and
send a strong message to our staff that we do not as a governing body, support them or
protect their actions as town employees in a lawsuit as mandated by our own
ordinance. And to direct our town attorney to not defend us in this action, to me will be
breaking that law.
This is an unfortunate lawsuit that needs to be fully adjudicated. The facts heard in a
court of law, not by a default judgment, for lack of just merely not defending the
lawsuit. We are a party to the lawsuit and like you, I have a right to defense and I
choose that. And I think it's unethical and inappropriate for us to consider otherwise.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else? Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: I had a couple people come to me and ask me if I would ask Councilman
Skillicorn to recuse himself today. And while I appreciate the question coming to me, I
had an opportunity to talk with our town attorney, and we don't see it as a recuseable
situation. It may have the appearance of a conflict of interest because he requested
that this come before us, and his attorney is the same as the attorney that is
representing the people that are suing the town. I just felt the need to get that out
there, because I actually haven't even contacted the people that asked me to ask him to
recuse himself. So it's not going to happen. I will not be asking him to do it, but I did
Page 40 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
want to acknowledge that it does give the appearance of a conflict of interest.
That being said, it makes zero sense to me why we would not want to defend ourselves.
We are named individually. We are named as a town. We conducted an in-house
investigation. We need to support ourselves and our staff, and I'm pretty sure my
personal attorney is watching right now. It just makes zero sense why I wouldn't want
to -- why we wouldn't want to defend ourselves. And I appreciate everybody coming
and speaking tonight and the public comment cards that came in. But I will definitely
be -- I'm actually ready to make a motion to deny.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: We have a motion and a second, but we can continue discussion if
you'd like.
I'd like to say a couple things. Some of the stuff that we heard from the folks that were
speaking about representing the people, we do represent the people but the people
don't agree all the time with each other. I have a feeling that there are a lot of people
who support the development and are upset about empty storefronts and would be in
favor of a $67 million investment into our town that would also probably revitalize some
extra businesses and also supply some very badly needed housing. I feel like I had
plenty of information to make a reasoned decision at that time. I watched planning and
zoning. I heard everybody come up and speak one way or the other here. I did meet
with the developers, as we all did, or I believe almost all of us did right here in town hall,
all open, and made that decision that I thought this was a good project.
In the past I've made decisions not to support projects, but I did this one and it passed
four to three. So I know we're trying to keep that part out of it, what it's about. But I
also felt the need to respond to being that we don't represent the people because the
people have different opinion about this. And the people elected all of us to make
decisions when times like this come. And that's the way that decision came down.
This right now, though, and I'm going to ask maybe Aaron -- does the state require the
correct serial number on both sides of a referendum petition? Because a referendum
petition is trying to reverse legal action that an elected body took. So it does have a lot
Page 41 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
more scrutiny on it. Is that something that is irrefutable?
ARNSON: Mayor and council, yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: So that both sides of the petition, whether we feel that's important or
not, that's a requirement. Does the state require any clerk or anybody that's in charge
of the petitions, to void petitions that do not have the correct serial number on both
sides?
ARNSON: Mayor and council, yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: So that's like the little minor or the little narrow part that has nothing
to do with the apartments. And that's what we're being asked to tell our clerk to send
those petitions to the state or the recorder -- I can't remember which.
GOODWIN: Secretary of State.
MAYOR DICKEY: Secretary of State. With the -- and again, the petitions are available,
and they have one number on one side and a variety of two numbers on some of the
back sides. So that's irrefutable that those petitions do not conform that way. Why
would we ask anybody to forward those to the state when we know that they need to
be forwarded? We will not ask -- I will not ask a staff or ourselves to ignore the state
statute. Clearly, this isn't about protection of free speech. Those 1,800 people
absolutely had the right to want to have a say in this, but there was clearly an error.
Now, who made the error? There was clearly an error. So the result of that error is that
those petitions needed to be voided. And now what we're going through is a decision to
say we're going to send them anyway? I mean, it's just not something I'm willing to do.
And I think that, again, some of some of the -- I've been on the other side of this with
petitions that were statewide. So it's probably thousands of signatures and they were
thrown out because it was stapled wrong. It was upside down on the back or whatever.
The legislature wrote it that way on purpose and made it very, very difficult. And the
signatures can't go under the line and the date can't just say 2024 and you can't put FH
for Fountain Hills. It's very annoying, but it's the way it is. And I'm not going to stand by
and allow this undefined clerical error because it doesn't -- and to try to say that we
won't go forward and defend that, there's no way I'm doing that.
Page 42 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
So does anybody have any other comments? Yes, Hannah.
TOTH: I'll keep it short and sweet. I did want to say that when our public -- and I don't
mean to put words in the mouth of the public, please forgive me. But when you do
come and speak about representing the people and the voice of the people, I think part
of that, Mayor, is that all of the people, for or against, would have had the opportunity
to vote on that referendum, and if it were to make it on the ballot, which is a big if. No
matter what happens with this resolution tonight, that lawsuit still gets decided as
stated by a member of the public.
Again, if it were to make it on the ballot, everyone gets to vote on that. So that is the
representation of everyone. I'll also remind the vice mayor that I did vote with her on
the signs to make the exception. So I guess I'm staying consistent tonight.
FRIEDEL: Mayor, just one more comment. I think it's been said here by doing this
resolution that we don't support the town staff. That couldn't be further from the truth.
This will be adjudicated. We aren't asking for a dismissal, and it's not unethical for us to
ask for some sort of other resolution. That's not unethical. That's called negotiations.
For a town that's always so concerned and worried about lawsuits, like with the sober
home and detox and other things that we've gone through, it's amazing to me that we
don't look for a resolution on this that would step us out of this lawsuit and still protect
our town staff and council. There's ways to do that, and again, it's called negotiation.
So we're so concerned about lawsuits in this town. Every time we turn around, we don't
want to be sued, we don't want to be sued. I think it's important that we look for ways
to get out of lawsuits. I don't disagree with that. So anyway, that's all I have to say.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I guess I have to just -- I just don't understand how asking
her to send petitions that we know are void to the Secretary of State is supporting, and
you don't have to answer, but I just don't. I do see it as not supporting our staff.
MCMAHON: Madam Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman.
MCMAHON: Also, again, this is a strict compliance statute. It needs to be adjudicated in
a court of law. The judge has to decide it. I don't even know -- I don't even know for
Page 43 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
sure if it can even be settled. It's a strict compliance statute. It's before the court. And I
do see it as not supporting our staff, among other things.
MAYOR DICKEY: We have a motion and a second. Are we ready to vote?
Roll call, please. And the motion is to deny.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No to deny.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you very much.
MENDENHALL: It passes three to four.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. Three to four.
MENDENHALL: Four to three.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you very much. Move on to our next item, which is a
subdivision item regarding hillside protection and fire safety. Rachael?
GOODWIN: Just a quick introduction. John's going to walk us through this one, but this
is a result of the request of Councilmember Friedel, I believe. You brought this forward
a while back, so this is the culmination of those efforts.
WESLEY: Good evening, Mayor, and council. As the town manager said this is an item
the town council asked staff to look into with regard to helping protect properties under
construction from fire dangers, as well as to look at developed areas that may be
Page 44 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
impacted because of hillside protection requirements and overgrowth that could occur
in those areas that could result in an increased fire danger. We held two meetings with
an ad hoc committee to consider some changes to our codes to address those issues,
and the committee supports these changes as they are being presented this evening.
What's being proposed is that we amend section 5.04 B1 of our subdivision ordinance
that provides some exemptions to hillside protection requirements by adding a new D.
And I won't read the full language there, but basically it provides for an additional ten -
foot buffer outside the required nondisturbance area. So that developer, if they choose
to and feels there's a need, can clear a little extra area of any of the potential fire
hazards so that it reduces that danger within that area nearest where the construction
activities are occurring.
GRZYBOWSKI: Would you like us to ask questions as we go along?
MAYOR DICKEY: Sure.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. Good. Because that way I don't forget. So they're
accommodating me. So we're asking them to clear the vegetation and then revegetate.
I completely understand why we're asking them to clear the vegetation, but I feel like
then insisting that they now go back and put plants in, these are things that are already
native. They're going to automatically come back in anyway the way the wind blows.
Why are we insisting that they go back and replant?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, that amount of replanting would depend a lot upon
the specific situation, how much overgrowth it really was, and how much clearing they
feel like they need to do. So it's not necessarily a one for one revegetation that would
occur, but something that would bring it back to just the basic standard that we'd see in
the desert in that area.
MCMAHON: We have fire concerns. So replanting vegetation in an area that we've just
had them remove it, there's still going to be the same fire concerns.
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, the fire concerns are a little bit heightened during
construction because of some of the work that occurs, particularly the hot work or the
cutting of the metals and so forth, as they're building retaining walls. Those are
Page 45 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
occurring right on the edge of that clear desert or nonclear desert, whereas, after the
house is built, most of those activities aren't really right there at that edge anymore.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. I'm just not a fan of asking them to remove it and then going back
and asking them to put it back in. I just feel like we're adding expense and time and fire
issues.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think some members of the committee want to answer. Gerry?
FRIEDEL: So it's not just that. It's taking out a lot of the dead stuff that's already there
that's a fire hazard. So like John said, it won't be one for one. But what it does is it
removes the liability of grinding and iron work and that kind of thing of starting an
additional fire up there in rough terrain where we can't always get access to get
equipment and vehicles in there. But there's a lot of dead material that has to be
removed that is a fire hazard right now. Is that right, John?
WESLEY: That's correct.
FRIEDEL: Yeah. So again, when they get done then with the project, they revegetate
and some of it will be a little bit more fire-resistant type of planning that goes in there.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MCMAHON: Also the builders who are part of the committee, they suggested this.
They wanted this to occur in the manner that it did so that there would be revegetation
for their own reasons. And like Gerry said, it's mainly to get rid of the undergrowth that
builds up. But again, on behalf of their homeowners association and the developers,
they wanted it to be revegetated after it was removed.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And specifically the vegetation, the invasive
nonnative buffalo grass is what's flammable. So when that's taken down, that's what
gives -- that what helps prevent the fire hazard, really. The native species are not as
flammable as the invasive stuff. So even though I do get the idea, like, why would we
plant stuff that could burn again, sagebrush, some of the other things, I don't know if I
see them realistically planting a lot there, but just eliminating the buffalo grass is
important. Now, if we're really thinking about maintaining the hillsides, having
Page 46 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
sagebrush grow there instead of buffalo grass would be beneficial. And then if the
sagebrush is actually growing, the grass seed wouldn't have, as open dirt basically, to
grab on to. But really that's the important part is the invasive, very flammable buffalo
grass to get rid of. And it makes a lot of sense to get rid of it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? Vice mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah, I like this, Gerry. And I think this is good
public policy. Is there a way that we could do a carve -out, though, for existing plants
that are indigenous, that are alive, that we don't have to take those down, but just the
dead vegetation? Would that be something that you could live with?
WESLEY: Can you repeat that?
KALIVIANAKIS: Well, if there's something kind of to what Sharron was saying. If there's
live vegetation, do we have to remove that? If that we're going to use that for the
landscaping?
FRIEDEL: They're not going to be out there clear cutting the desert.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
FRIEDEL: No, that's not the intent of this. The intent is just to get rid of the flammables,
especially around the areas where they're putting up a fence and they're grinding and
welding and that kind of thing. And then, they'll go back in and do their landscaping as
appropriate. And again, this will be monitored by most of the HOAs as well.
KALIVIANAKIS: So that would avoid like saguaros and --
FRIEDEL: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- all that kind of thing?
FRIEDEL: Yeah. Oh, yeah.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
FRIEDEL: You can't touch those anyway. Those are --
KALIVIANAKIS: Of course.
FRIEDEL: -- are protected by the state.
KALIVIANAKIS: I just used that as an example. But yeah, that makes sense.
WESLEY: Okay. Mayor, so the other change that we are proposing is a little bit further
Page 47 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
down in the ordinance with regard to just the rest of the community that are covered by
the hillside protection easements and after construction. Over a period of time, those
areas can get overgrown, can get an accumulation of dead materials, and so forth,
where some fire dangers could occur. So we're proposing to add some language a new
section H that gives the fire marshal the opportunity to work with the homeowner that
has a hillside protection easement in place to look at any fire dangers that have
accumulated around their property and allow some selective clearing on that property
up to 100 feet from the structure. And then, get it to a state where it won't have quite
the same level of danger. This doesn't, again, allow for clear cutting. It's very selective.
And help reduce that risk in the area. One of the concerns was brought up in the desert
uplands areas as more houses get built, it becomes more concerning. If a fire does
occur in the area, there's more property that can be damaged. So we want to take this
extra step to try to balance the desire to keep a good native desert look to the
community, but still protect homes as they get built.
MAYOR DICKEY: I just see a typo in there, "violation" in the last line.
WESLEY: Okay. Thank you. I see that now.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
WESLEY: And I believe that's it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Yes. So I don't know if you want to kind of point
out that there was a nice committee there. And Gerry, do you want to kind of take a
little bit?
FRIEDEL: Yeah. John was on the committee, myself, Peggy. Who else from town staff?
There were a couple. Paula Woodward, John Wesley, Peggy McMahon, David Janover,
David Ott, Mike Winters, Rachael, Jerry, Peter, Brent, Michael Gant was in and out on a
couple of the meetings, Steve Argo, and Dennis Brown, and Jack Wigley. So we had a
good smattering of people from all over the town and people that are involved with this.
And again, it'll be under the fire marshal, his recommendation too. So also with this, let
me explain one other thing real quick. And then I'll make a motion to adopt this.
MAYOR DICKEY: I have to see if we have any cards.
Page 48 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
FRIEDEL: Yes. Okay. So let me add one other thing too. So some of these properties
have got trees that are a little bit further out that are dead. Again, the fire marshal is
going to recommend if those trees are a hazard or a real fire hazard, he'll recommend
that they be removed, which is a new thing for this ordinance as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards for this item?
MENDENHALL: Mayor, we do not. But we do have one written comment for you in
your packet and they are for this item.
GRZYBOWSKI: The only question I have as a prior insurance person is have we
contacted -- we have a major insurance carrier that's based out of Phoenix. Have we
talked to anybody from there to see if this is actually going to help with the insurance
rates and with the cancellation problem that we have?
WESLEY: Mayor and Councilmember, staff is not directly --
FRIEDEL: I can address part of that. I did reach out to our state representatives because
we had heard from a number of residents that the State of Arizona had been declared a
fire zone of some sort. They did some research on it and they couldn't find any truth to
that. So as far as that goes there was one major insurance carrier that did leave the
State, I think it was Chubb, for whatever reason. Not sure if that was related to this or
not. But we're having this ordinance on the books, people can go to their insurance
company and say, hey, we've taken steps in this town to minimize the effects of fire
within a certain perimeter of our properties. So I think that'll be a big benefit. So again,
we'll keep checking with our state reps to see if they find out anything about that
declaration that was made. Because we heard that some people's insurance premiums
had gone up 40, 60, 80 percent, so we want to try and minimize that for every resident
in the town because generally speaking, their biggest asset is their property. So we
want to do what we can to A, protect it and B, make sure they can get insurance for it.
With that, I'll move to adopt ordinance 24-09.
TOTH: Second.
SKILLICORN: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilmember Skillicorn, did you have any other comment? Your
Page 49 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
light was on. I finally paid attention.
SKILLICORN: I tend to agree with the other councilmember to second it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: First I need to know who won the second? Okay. All right.
Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Passes unanimously.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you and the committee for all your work.
Now, I told you to do the vote count and then I keep cutting you off. But that was
unanimous, so we got that one down. Our next item is wayfinding signs. Rachael?
GOODWIN: Mayor and council, this item, the wayfinding signs, has been a very long
process. Some of you were on the council when it was introduced. Some of you may be
less familiar with it. So I think Justin is going to review it. But we also have Amanda
here tonight. Obviously, signage and directing folks into our town and to our
highlighted areas is a big discussion piece. So I know Justin has really spearheaded a lot
of this, but Amanda is here to talk from the economic side if needed. With that, Justin,
take us away.
Page 50 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
WELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmembers, thank you for the opportunity. This process
started in earnest in 2017. At that time, the town secured the services of a vendor that
prepared a set of plans. The preparation of those plans included meetings with staff,
open house, several visits to the council for their approval on the process, eventually it
came to fruition. At that time uncertainty in regards to the economy, the project was
put aside. Staff was asked some years later to bring it back, and we did so. As part of
that, we were asked to place it out and get some bids for the plans that we had
received. We followed that direction and did so.
On average, they were around $300,000 apiece; this was in 2021. At that time, again, it
was decided due to uncertainty in the economy that the project would be deferred.
Once again, we entered back into the fray. This time while we were taking a look at it,
we noted that the original design is really based off of California standards. In that
particular case, the architect or designer prepares all the necessary documents and the
concepts, but the onus for all the engineering, wind loading, and everything else is
placed on the contractor that bids on it. Having discussion with the town management,
we decided the best thing to do was come back to the council, ask for some funding,
and have an engineering firm and a fabrication firm work on it and bring it to fruition.
So now we have a complete set of documents that includes all the necessary
engineering, and also includes the concepts that were originally approved with a
minimal amount of changes.
With that, we'll get started with our little PowerPoint. Please feel free as we're moving
through here to stop and ask questions so we can do the best we can to answer any of
them that you may have.
There are primarily three types of signs, the large ones known as the V10s, which are
the vehicle directional primary. These are the types of signs that would go out on Shea.
The V12s, which are the secondary, this would be Fountain Hills Boulevard, Saguaro,
Palisades, those area. And lastly the V15s, these are the smaller signs that would be
placed on the minor collectors, major collectors, and local streets leading to one
location or another. This is the V10. These are the ones that would be out on Shea. A
Page 51 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
lot of information on this slide in regards to the height. Please note that the original
plans included material sizes that were not typical of the industry and required specialty
sizing. When we went back and looked at it, we opted to choose readily available off -
the -shelf sizes for the sheathing. The front sheathing on this would obviously be
aluminum. And the back on it was originally called for weathered steel. In this
particular case, there is an option between weathered steel and/or properly applied
powder coating or painting, and you would have the same effect. However, the signs
would not be rusty, they would just would appear to be.
MAYOR DICKEY: Justin. The one before this had numbers underneath. Are those the
number of signs you think that we need of each type?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, in fact, the plan that we're showing you tonight calls for 7 of
the V10's, 16 of the V12, and 17 of the V15. These are the V12 signs, just slightly
smaller, but not much. These types of signs, again, would be on Palisades, Fountain Hills
Boulevard, and Saguaro. A lot of information here.
FRIEDEL: Justin, will you go over those numbers one more time? How many we need of
each.
WELDY: Councilmember, I certainly will. We have 7 of the very large ones, 16 of the
large, but not as large, and 17 of the smaller ones.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you know how many wayfinding signs we have now? Like around?
WELDY: At this time, Madam Mayor, we have very few of the remaining brown ones.
As they become damaged over the years, we've simply removed them. I don't have a
total count of that at this time. I can tell you that two of the three signs, the big blue
and white ones out on Shea, still remain. However, the third one was struck and at a
cost of a couple of thousand dollars to have it repaired it was decided, above my pay
grade, that wasn't a good plan at this time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Go ahead.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. Since we're kind of jumping ahead
with questions, I just had a quick one for you. I told you I just went to the east coast for
a week, and I spent half my time looking at public restrooms and wayfinding signs
Page 52 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
because I knew we were going to be addressing this tonight. The color palette -- I know
you're using that, is that going to be subject to change?
WELDY: Madam mayor, Madam Vice Mayor, in fact, it is. So this was the color originally
chosen by the elected body at that time and then revisited and agreed to again at that
time. So that's why we're here tonight. We want to get your opinion not only on the
color, but the location and the format. And then there's some other questions in the
very end related to the town center signs and because of rebranding that is now known
as the downtown. So we'll get some direction on that as well.
I think it's important to note that any substantial change beyond what we have right
here will require an amendment to the contract. And then we'll come back to council
for the design changes. And again, I use substantial. Just changing the colors right now
are not that challenging. But any major changes are certainly going to require additional
funding.
These are the V15. These are the types that you would see approaching your
destination. El Lago, La Montana, Parkview, Avenue of the Fountains. Any questions
related to this one? This is the destination list. So these are where these signs are
directing people to the location. And these are listed in one form or another on these
signs, depending on their location. And I think it's important to note that the We-ko-pa
Resort was an ask by the then -president of the Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation, and two
councils agreed to add them because they're our partners and our neighbors.
MAYOR DICKEY: I just have a question about that, though. It seems to be, I think the
only thing that's named by, like, brand name or whatever you want to call it. Because
you have golf course, we don't have Desert Canyon or whatever. So I wonder to be
consistent if we put -- if there's a way to put resort casino or something like that?
Especially -- and part of the discussion a long time ago had to do with if something
changed their name or they changed owners or something, and we ended up with a sign
up that said whatever. I don't want to make something up, little cupcake shop or
something. And then they turned it into a different name. So I wondered about just
saying resort casino, golf course or something like that, rather than the actual name.
Page 53 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
WELDY: Madam Mayor, if we can get a majority to agree on something similar to that,
we can certainly -- is that what you would like to see? Is resort casino? So the resort in
this particular context represents another resort off of Palisades and Eagle Ridge Drive.
The We-ko-pa is separate. So the We-ko-pa resort, we can certainly work that language.
What would you like to see?
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I understand the argument about the brand name. But I
also think we have a brand and image too, and I don't know if I want casino on our signs.
MAYOR DICKEY: So were you just saying that this is not for the casino, this is for
something else or just the resort?
WELDY: The We-ko-pa Resort is, in fact, a resort we did not use -- the previous councils
did not select casino. Instead, they focused on the fact that it was a resort.
MAYOR DICKEY: So the one right before it just says resort?
WELDY: That is a nearby one that would point you directly west on Eagle Ridge Drive to
a destination.
FRIEDEL: I understand the concern, but I think they're a big, valuable partner, I think to
the town. I don't have a problem with it saying resort casino? Probably not. But I
wonder if they do change the name at some point in time -- who knows -- and they want
to continue to have that presence. We ask them to pay for the remake. I don't see
them changing the name, but I think they're a valuable partner to the town. Unless I'm
missing something. Anybody else have any thoughts on that?
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. I agree they're a very valuable partner to the town. If that's
the one request of our neighbors, I'd like to stick with that. I mean, we weren't given a
laundry list for these, so I'm happy to accommodate one request. When it comes to the
name change, I mean, obviously, no one knows what the future holds. I could turn
around and eat these words, but my inclination would be that, given that they were
voted, I believe, the number one golf course in Arizona, they have that name
recognition. They're a very large, successful resort. My inclination would be that we
don't probably have to worry about a name change. That would be a large change to
Page 54 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
the brand, and I don't see that as something in the near future. I mean, assuming no
catastrophes, I suppose.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think part of it was just to be consistent. So you know, and I'm just
remembering the conversation and it was like, yeah, because I think it might have been
about the Holiday Inn at the time. And why didn't we put Holiday Inn instead of just
hotel or something like that? But I'm fine with it then. I just didn't want to -- and it
probably doesn't happen in this case because that's a whole different area with a golf
resort, casino, the whole thing. But I don't want to ever look like we've doing an
advertisement for one particular golf course over another or something like that, so.
But it's up to you guys. Vice mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. I think that's responsible and resort
casino, in deference to Allen, I appreciate your concern about having casino on our
signage, but I think I concur with Gerry. I think resort casino would be something I could
live with, and it would avoid the inconsistency problem that the mayor pointed out.
WELDY: Anything else regarding this list?
GRZYBOWSKI: I just feel like we kind of have a split thing going on. I can see going
either direction. If we get down to it, we're probably talking two signs that say We-ko-
pa?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, I'll definitely have to take a look. There's a set
of construction documents attached to the staff report that actually shows in more
detail where each of them will go and the text that was selected on them. But I did not
print that because it's a little bit large.
GRZYBOWSKI: And the font is tiny. I could totally see going either direction. I
wholeheartedly support not mentioning one business over another. I totally get that
concept. As a business owner, I'd be kind of upset if I had a resort and you were
mentioning those guys and you didn't mention me. But we do have a good tie-in. So
now I've talked both sides of the fence, which I know, Mayor, you hate when I do. But I
honestly, I feel like we do kind of need to get rid of the name and whether we put resort
and golf course or however we want to phrase it. Or Fort McDowell, maybe? And that
Page 55 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
way they know that they're actually leaving Fountain Hills, maybe.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Who made the ask for the name and also thinking about our tourist
agreement with them and business relationship with them, isn't it a little bit more
formal?
MAYOR DICKEY: You mean like the Prop 200 stuff?
MCMAHON: Well, no. I mean, like, it seems based on things that have happened over
the years, I think I've heard that we have, like, a tourist and an agreement -- Amanda
maybe can address this, please. And I just would like to know how formal that
agreement is and if we would be harming that in any way by not putting the actual
name of the resort.
JACOBS: Madam Mayor, councilmember. You've heard me use the term -- we are
designated as the designated marketing organization for the town. We do not have a
specific agreement with We-ko-pa, but just professionally speaking. Hearing again,
Councilmember Grzybowski saying it seems kind of split. My recommendation would to
leave the name out. In my experience, hotels can change their name a lot or they can
add to it because management teams change. I usually don't like to call hotels by name,
but there's a hotel in our downtown where some people call it a certain name, and I've
only been here two years and I'm like, what are you talking about? So it does happen. I
use that as an example, so I would highly recommend -- my professional opinion is to
keep it resort. Because again we have a Adero resort. Should we add Adero? Is Adero
potentially going to change their name? There's so many unknowns. So again my
professional recommendation is to take off We-ko-pa. And again, we appreciate them.
One thing that they asked me two years ago when I met them in my first 30 days, is --
they didn't call out the specific name, but they said, Amanda, could you please do
something about those signs? Because as Mr. Weldy mentioned, they're different
colors, sizes, and it was faded and faded and fader. So he started to remove those. So
any other questions?
MCMAHON: I also have another question for you. What about resort and casino? I
Page 56 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
mean, do you look at that as, from your vantage point, being detrimental or just a
generic explanation for the fact that it's a resort and a casino and people do come here
and look for where the casino is.
JACOBS: Madam Mayor, Councilmember McMahon, again, I would keep it short and
sweet to just resort because again, Adero. Again, I don't like to call it different names,
but they offer stargazing. They offer other things. So it's sort of where do we stop? So
short and simple. And again, remember, people are driving by trying to get directed.
They're not spending tons of time reading all of that.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
JACOBS: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I do like to go with economic director's idea
there of resort. I just think the casino has negative connotations to it. And I don't like
the idea of advertising in our town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else? I mean, I think a casino is fine because it's legal and it's
our neighbor and we want to help them. But I'm all for just putting resort too. I don't
have a negative feel for a casino. Anything else on this item? Thank you.
SKILLICORN: Well, I -- thank you, Madam Mayor. I was just going to add that we're just
basically giving direction so they could come back to us with a whole new name, but
we're just giving direction. And I think that we've made our point.
WELDY: This incredibly easy to read map shows the location of each one of these signs.
You'll note that the area in and around Town Hall is kind of blocked off there. Again,
attached to the staff report documents are a little less challenging. We looked at
several different opportunities for breaking this up or making it bigger. This is really just
to give you an overall. But think of it as you would that, obviously, Shea, we would have
signs. Palisades, Fountain Hills Boulevard, Saguaro, and then as we get closer to the
core of town, there would be smaller signs on our minor collectors, major collectors,
and our local roads.
These are the primary signs, and this is the current text that will be shown on them.
Page 57 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
And each one of these numbers represents a location on the aforementioned map.
MAYOR DICKEY: So again, sort of jumping ahead. The idea that this will probably be
more than the 275 that we have. If we start to look at having less signs, like, especially
in town and such, would we ever consider putting, like, the mileage on it? So the
downtown -- so here is something on Shea, then you put it on Saguaro. And then rather
having a bunch like kind of internal just say like one mile or you know, anything on there
to give it a little bit more information without having another? Because we're talking
forty what, 46 signs, I think? No, 40 signs. But if it ends up looking like we can't afford
to do this many signs, would we be able to do that?
WELDY: Absolutely, Mayor. Again, we're here tonight to get direction based on -- well,
it's 100 percent concept is where we're at. So we're either ready to go to bid or make
minor changes. Again substantial changes will get an estimate, and then we'll come
back to the mayor and council depending on the dollar threshold. But we're here to get
direction tonight on what you would like to see and the direction you would like to go.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director, someone mentioned the font. Is the
font big enough so seasoned citizens can see that while they drive by at 35 miles an
hour?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, councilmember, in fact, we're going to dive in a little bit
deeper. But if you'll recall back here a couple of slides, it actually has the font on this
one here. So it looks like we're four and a half inches for the arrow and the font related
to the community center and the text there, and three and a half inches lower to the
bottom. And then, as you can see, as we get to the bigger signs, we're looking at five
inch primarily. Is that five or seven? I'm going to need to get my glasses. So it's based
on the speed limit and the roadway geometry, which is primarily two lanes in each
direction; there are some exceptions to that. You're welcome.
So if I'm not mistaken, here we want to -- for the primary signs out on Shea, add a
mileage.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think it's just going --
WELDY: To each of the destinations or key destinations?
Page 58 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: It's just depending on if we can have the rest of the signs after they get
in to where they're going, that can direct them. Because at least from some preliminary
discussions, this is very expensive. So if we have to cut something down and say they
only have two signs to get to the shopping area or to the civic center, let's say, to town
hall, that would be the only reason to do it.
GRZYBOWSKI: So you're talking about cutting down on the smaller number of signs and
adding miles to those signs?
MAYOR DICKEY: Just in case we have to cut down the small signs.
WELDY: We can -- adding a little bit of text, at this point in time, I don't see as a major
issue. And we're certainly going to discuss the money as we go on here. So we have a
general idea of what we're discussing.
These are the secondary signs. Again, these are primarily on Palisades, Fountain Hills
Boulevard, and Saguaro.
[CLERKS NOTE: Councilmember Toth left the dais at 7:49 p.m. and returned at 8:02
p.m.]
MCMAHON: If we added mileage on these, would it change the font and the size?
WELDY: Slightly, yes.
MCMAHON: Smaller?
WELDY: Yes, ma'am.
MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you.
WELDY: These are the remainder. So obviously there are more of these that would go
on the minor and major collectors coming in Palisades, Saguaro.
And lastly, these are the smaller ones that would be closer to the destination and/or the
town core in that area or other destinations as described on each of the signs. Lots of
information, huh?
Lastly, as you can see by the image in the middle of the page, this was part of a branding
some years ago, in which the town council agreed to purchase and install these town
center signs. We have a couple of dozen of them remaining, and enough in storage to
replace them for the next 30 years. These were purchased early 2000s. And they
Page 59 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
decided at that time, because of the cost to just purchase them in bulk. So the top
portion of this and the powder coated poles, there's quite a collection of these at the
street department. With the rebranding of the town center to downtown, one of the
concepts was to cover up the town center. Because this is a little bit more challenging,
and these are localized in what was formerly known as the town center, but now
downtown, staff was uncomfortable in regards to giving any real direction. The original
design was to make them kiosks and/or poster locations that would be managed by
either community services and/or public works, and obviously the posters or the
information contained in them would be changed periodically. Keep in mind that these
are primarily walking. And at the time they were installed, not all of them are
immediately adjacent to a walking path. The majority of them will be here thanks to a
generous donation by this council and the federal government for sidewalk gap
elimination. But so we're really asking for some direction on this. What would you like
to see with these basically 25 signs?
MCMAHON: I think it's going to depend on the size and what sign that the fountain
would fit onto.
WELDY: So these are existing. The proposed cover is approximately six feet tall and
approximately four feet ten wide. So slightly taller than me and slightly narrower than
me.
MCMAHON: Oh, okay. Amanda, a question as far as branding goes, would you like to
see these on just the ones that are downtown, or the ones that are on Shea and the
major thoroughfares, or just scattered around town?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, these signs are in the town center area, aka the downtown.
They're nowhere else. These are just right here in the core.
MCMAHON: Right. Okay. I just wanted to clarify that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Wait, you said -- sorry. Did you say you had, like, two dozen of them
left somewhere not being used?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, we do have replacements. This type of sign is simply too small
for anybody over a decent pace on a bicycle. Because again, we're talking about a
Page 60 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
poster that would be put in there. Or if you would like, you can certainly add a
wayfinding type sign in there. It's two sided also. One on either side was the way they
were designed.
JACOBS: Madam Mayor, councilmember, can you repeat your question? I heard the
branding.
MCMAHON: Right. As far as --
JACOBS: Are you talking about his or the other signs?
MCMAHON: Yeah, as far as consistency, the branding. And then Justin answered my
question as far as they're just downtown. So I guess what use do you see or would like
to see of the --
JACOBS: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, I appreciate the question. What I would love
to see and the direction be, is some of this is operational and we leave that to our
professional staff. Just being honest. Also, I think because we're going through the
downtown strategy process, we are getting lots of feedback and themes on signage and
where some people are mentioning, is this where, again, you highlight the fountain,
Fountain Park, and the districts, where some of them are named. So there's lots of
ideas. So I think to be determined. If we can work on that more operationally instead
of at the policy level is just my ask, since you asked me.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
JACOBS: You're welcome.
WELDY: So the direction on these?
MAYOR DICKEY: I think since we are having this discussion about downtown, when I
first looked at it, it kind of looks like you might want it to be something to do with hiking
or going to a park or going to Adero or something. But at this point, I don't think we
need to make a decision on these. Right, Rachael?
GOODWIN: No. I think, again, these are existing. And I think Amanda actually makes a
good point that as we go through the strategy, as we hear feedback, let the
brainstorming happen, and perhaps we come up with an idea that hasn't even been
discussed tonight. I think that there's some value to that. You've heard one suggestion,
Page 61 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
but I think, again, if we can maybe table this portion of it to allow the staff and some
ideas to kind of come together on that, I think that's a better idea.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Yeah, I think this has been constructive. I'm
supportive. I also think if we approve this, we're not saying don't change it. This is just
giving direction. And I think that these pay for themselves over time. And maybe
something to consider is the items, like the hiking trails, that they're great. I love them,
but they don't have any revenue. So maybe that is to be discussed. But the fact is I
don't need to micromanage this and I trust the staff and the concept so far. So I think
they've done a great job. And I think we should continue going down this road.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Just something that is not setting with me
well, right now, and I just want to bring it up real quickly. Is the We-ka-pa Resort sign --
resort casino. If this was addressed by a previous mayor and two previous councils,
would it be possible for us to just have staff reach out to the casino and just get an input
on that before we kind of make a heavy handed decision here? Because we do have a
very valuable relationship and I don't want to ruffle -- yeah, I don't want to ruffle
feathers over this. So I think if we can get their input that would really be helpful.
WELDY: A couple of things that we need to go over here that are going to be a little
uncomfortable for some is the money. As I had stated earlier in this presentation, this
started back in 2017. Do you want to hear the numbers that we've spent up to date,
and then the engineer's estimate for fabrication and installation? So in 2018, the
original concept was about $31,000, that's what we paid. In 2019, for the finalized
portion of that was 49,000. In 2023, we paid 9,000 for a structural engineer and
$13,000 for the concepts and the plans. To date, we're about $104,000 into this, and
I'm bringing this up simply because of the number of emails and phone calls I received
and comments from the public that have had a chance to look at this once the agenda
was released. The engineers' estimate is just under $700,000 to fabricate and install
these signs. Keep in mind, there is a lot of traffic control necessary because we live in a
Page 62 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
hillside community and we would not ask anyone working for us, just like we do not
allow anyone working for anyone else to work in unsafe conditions. So it requires off
duty police officers and traffic control and oftentimes, several different times. And also
note for any of you that has went out in your backyard and decided to plant a tree or
anything, there's a little bit of rock in the ground, so we can expect that. So knowing
that we are prepared to make these minor adjustments based on communication we
get from the Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation and place these documents out for bid.
We'll know the true cost to design and install them when we open those bids and bring
it back to the mayor and council. That's really where we're at. We have your input. I
don't think there's any substantial changes in regards to adding some mileage. Or
removing or changing one name, depending again on conversation between the town
manager and the president of the neighboring nation. But I didn't want anybody to get
caught off guard either when we come back.
FRIEDEL: Can I ask a question? In your analysis, with the mileage, will you be able to tell
us how many signs or duplication that you'll be able to reduce this by? And then will
that be in your estimate of actual costs then too?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, the number of signs -- so adding the mileage
isn't going to be that substantial. So the lettering is just a few pennies right now. And
it's not likely -- we may have to work a little bit on shifting where the text lies on the
sign, but I don't see adding mileage as that big of a deal. And again, we will speak to the
firm that prepared these plans and confirm that. We certainly would not proceed
without doing so. So if the question is, do we want to eliminate some of the vehicular
signage in the core? If that's the direction, we can certainly look at eliminating those.
We can reduce a number of any of the sizes that you would like, if that's the direction
you're thinking. Again, the engineer's estimate is just that. We will not know the true
numbers until we unseal those bids.
MAYOR DICKEY: I forgot to -- I didn't forget, but did we have any speaker cards on this,
Linda?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. First of all, in your packet, you have written
Page 63 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
comments: seven people for this, nobody's against it. And then we have one speaker
card, Betsy LaVoie.
LAVOIE: Hi. Betsy Lavoie, Fountain Hills resident. I'm here to express my support for
the implementation of the wayfinding sign project outlined in the staff report. As a
resident of this town, I firmly believe that establishing a comprehensive and user-
friendly signage and wayfinding system is essential for enhancing the overall experience
of both visitors and citizens alike. The current state, as you know, of our wayfinding
system is outdated, inconsistent, and often difficult to navigate, particularly in
downtown areas. By investing in this project, we have the opportunity to create a
cohesive streetscape environment that not only improves navigation but also enhances
the aesthetic identity of our town. But as the president and CEO of the Fountain Hills
Chamber of Commerce, we are a partner to the town and support the additional benefit
to the business community that this project will bring.
Improved navigation will undoubtedly lead to increased foot traffic and exposure for
local businesses, thereby enhancing economic vitality. The goals and action items
outlined in the town's 2020 General Plan and Economic Development Strategy align
perfectly with the objectives of this project. Clear and concise aid in navigation will not
only facilitate ease of movement, but also contribute to the thriving environment and
connectivity within our business community. The wayfinding sign project also presents
a wonderful alternative to the blue ADOT signs that we are allowed to place for our
visitor center. As the official visitor center for the Town of Fountain Hills, I recommend
these wayfinding signs be placed at the gateways to our main arteries to avoid the need
for those large blue ADOT visitor signs and we can detract from the aesthetic appeal of
our town from the large blue ones. Additionally, the Arizona Sign Association has for
years emphasized the urgent need for wayfinding signage in our town. For too long, this
issue has been neglected and it's time for action. Not neglected, just kicked down the
road. Delaying the final design would only result in increased costs for eventual
fabrication and construction, making it imperative that we proceed with the design,
fabrication, and installation, as recommended by staff.
Page 64 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
In conclusion, I urge the town council to please support after seven long years, this
wayfinding sign project, by doing so will not only enhance navigation and accessibility
within our community but also create a more vibrant and welcoming environment for
all. Thank you.
FRIEDEL: Betsy, can I ask you a quick question? Did you just say that the chamber
wanted to go halves with us on this?
SKILLICORN: I heard it.
LAVOIE: Did you? Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: So to be clear, what would we be saying? What would we be saying
yes to? So the possible changes? But there's no obligation here to 700 grand. Yeah.
GOODWIN: Mayor, if I may? I think what we heard tonight and please chime in if I
misheard or if I forget anything here, is that in general, you like the concepts here, we
have some changes I've noted here. We're going to reach out to We-ko-pa, we're going
to chat with them to see about that. Look into adding the mileage. I actually noted a
couple little minor errors about some name changes we'll need to make too. But again,
those are not high -- they're not a problem. We just want to make sure we get it right.
And then if there's a way to reduce some of the signage -- once we add the mileage, if
there's a way to potentially reduce some of the recommended or noted signs to save on
costs, we'll take a look at that and perhaps make a recommendation on where we think
that might be most appropriate. And then we're going to hold off on any changes right
now regarding the existing town center infrastructure and potentially hear some ideas
during our brainstorming in our downtown strategic plan process.
Assuming that's the right assessment, we'll take this back. We'll go back and get some
finalized plans. We'll and then we will move to the bidding process to get an idea of
what it's really going to take to fabricate and install. That's the next step, Justin?
WELDY: Correct.
GOODWIN: Awesome. Do you have an idea of when we're looking to issue that RFP?
WELDY: I would really like to have notice of award of the council prior to them going on
the summer break.
Page 65 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
GOODWIN: Okay.
WELDY: It takes a little while here and then also allows us an opportunity to speak with
the tandem CFOs regarding the lack of funding in next year's budget for this.
GOODWIN: Actually, and that moves pretty fast if we're going to issue it and notify
award and all of that good stuff in the remainder of this fiscal, that's actually pretty
quick, so.
WELDY: Correct.
GOODWIN: Okay. That sounds great.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. And just to revisit my earlier point on color, do
we have to make that decision tonight or can we do that more closer to when we get a
bid in the bidding process?
WELDY: Well, we really need to decide that tonight because the documents that we
released for bid, the contractors are going to base their bidding pricing and their unit
pricing on that.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. It just seems like the colors that were selected in your
presentation were kind of dark and ominous. And like, I see that aged copper in the
background and like an ivory, just seems like it'd be more welcoming. And like I said, I
did spend a week looking at wayfinding signs, and I really looked at the dark ones. I
looked at the lighter ones, and it just seems like the lighter ones were more friendly on
the eyes. And for especially for this kind of a community.
WELDY: Are you referencing the back of the sign, Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. The back, I would prefer like an aged copper, like that lighter
green. And then in the front of the sign where the black lettering would be or white
lettering would be, would be ivory. Just throwing it out there.
WELDY: So the darker portion is weathered steel.
SKILLICORN: Okay. Yeah.
WELDY: Rust if you would.
SKILLICORN: Okay. So that's the one in the bottom?
•
Page 66 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
WELDY: The green on white --
SKILLICORN: The PARTICIPATE --
WELDY: Yeah. Is what was selected. If you would like to change the face -- color of the
face of the sign and the font, tonight is the night to do that.
SKILLICORN: So do we have like four choices for where the color schedule is, Pito P4?
WELDY: Where are you seeing this, Vice Mayor?
SKILLICORN: That's at the Smith Craft Custom Architectural Signs, page 2.
FRIEDEL: Can I jump in or no? I kind of like what we have here.
KALIVIANAKIS: I think this is what we're talking about. I'm not -- just throwing it out
there.
FRIEDEL: Yeah.
TOTH: I was just going to pretty much say the same thing. I like the existing colors. I
think that they're easily readable. I think the weathered steel will look very nice as well.
So I'm fine with the coloring.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: Ditto my neighbors here. When you're driving on the highway, green is
often the destination color that you see. So I like the green, plus it blends in and it
matches the greenery of the scenery. And then of course, the automatic rust thing.
That's great because then when it does rust, it looks normal. So yeah, I like it. I think it's
easy on the eyes and I like the color scheme with the background.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, I think it's under project plans. It's the second attachment.
WELDY: Madam Vice Mayor, I don't -- I had a set of older documents opened here, but I
don't have the ones that are in the staff report.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Okay.
WELDY: So it sounds like currently we're going to stay with the hunter green and white
on weathered steel. Is that correct? And we'll make minor changes to the text, include
the mileage. Town manager will speak to the neighboring president and we'll
implement those minor changes.
Page 67 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Any motion?
SKILLICORN: Motion to approve.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: And just to be clear, the motion is to direct staff to incorporate the
recommended changes in procedure, the competitive bidding process. We have a
motion and a second. Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: We have a unanimous vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Clerk. Our next item is about public art. Rachael? Thank
you, Justin.
WELDY: You're welcome.
GOODWIN: Thanks, Justin. I'm actually going to have Kevin introduce the public art
item. And then I think we have a member or two of our public art committee to walk us
through this tonight.
SNIPES: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council. Tonight we're here to check and look for
approval for the public art that has been selected. We wanted to make sure that you
Page 68 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
had the opportunity to see what is going to go up in our park prior to that happening.
and with that, I will hand it over to a couple of our public art committee members.
Jenny and Cheryl are here, so I'll ask them to come up. I can just open up easier.
WILLIGROD: Madam Mayor and councilmembers. The Town of Fountain Hills Public Art
Committee received over 300 applicants for the second year of the Pump House
program. The theme this year was -- this exhibit is "Expressions", with the artist's
interpretation of a facial expression that portrays an emotion. The origin of the face
could be human, animal, or plant. All costs associated with the fabrication and
installation of the panels will be responsibility of the Public Art Committee. Artists
chosen for this project will receive a $200 honorarium, and artwork will be featured on
the public art website. And these are the seven pieces of art that were selected of the
300.
GOLLON: How do we scroll down, Kevin? Mayor and council, I assume you all have this
in your package, correct? So you're able to look over the paragraphs that were
attached. I thought the one thing that was kind of interesting this year is we've got
seven different states, which is kind of fun. We had New York all the way to Oregon, I
think. So these were our finalists. Anybody have any questions?
MAYOR DICKEY: Does anybody have any questions? Did we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. We have one in your pocket who is for this project.
And then we have Ed Stizza.
STIZZA: So hi, good evening. Got a couple questions. So this is how big of an area
again, exactly? These are the panels down by the Veterans Memorial, correct? What
happened to the butterfly project? I thought there was butterflies going to go on the
wall. What happened? Just out of curiosity, that's number one. Number two. Boy, I
moved to Fountain Hills years ago. My family moved here because it was a southwest
desert location and destination and I love art. I love it, love it. It's a big passion of mine.
I just don't really see -- I know in all due respect, there was 300 applicants, it sounds like,
right? And I've looked over these images and just don't think they really represent what
Fountain Hills and what people should be looking at down there right next to Veteran's
Page 69 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Memorial. A little bit spread out in the conceptual or conceptual and colors. I don't
know how it would look. It would be nice to see a rendering of this overall how it's
going to be laid out or what the thought processes is. And again, the public options
have been completely eliminated from this, right? I mean, I just seen this fairly recently,
so we didn't bring any of this to the public on maybe what the public might want to look
at and the 300 possibilities or did we? I don't know, I'm asking. So I don't know if they
can answer that. But I don't remember seeing this as possibly an option or the options
presented to the public. So just doesn't seem like -- I get the ideas, I see the artwork,
but just doesn't seem like it's -- I don't know. I would think of these images in
downtown San Francisco or Los Angeles, something much more urban. I don't feel this
really represents a good use of that space as far as the images. So it would be nice to be
able to see some more options here, especially, is there a cost to this? Do we know?
That's the other thing. You know --
MAYOR DICKEY: I'll let the folks come up. But just you know, for statues and everything
else, sculptures, I mean we have a public art committee and then the council sees it as
we are seeing this now and then we discuss it. That's how it's always been. But I'll let
you guys come up and talk a little bit more about process. And what was the other --
oh, cost. Thanks.
GOLLON: I'll go back and explain where we came about with this idea. The mural was
going to be butterflies. He's correct about that. And that was back in 2020, I think. But
the public art committee, having been down that road before, realizes that that fades
and it chips, and we're constantly going back and having to repair and replace at an
expense. So this concept was presented last year as a Pump House pilot project, and we
did the first year of the art and had the selections. Am I not close enough? So that
theme last year was Legends and Lore of the Valley. Every year we intend to change the
theme and this year the theme was Expressions, and I believe that was presented here a
couple of months back. So last year we did not have quite as many entries. There was a
cost associated with applying. This year we eliminated that cost; therefore, we had a lot
of images. Now even though there were 300, making that be an zero expense, we
Page 70 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
ended up with a lot of images that were not sized appropriately. People just simply
didn't follow the directions. So that being said, I can't give you an exact number. I'm
still thinking we had at least 200 images and we do have a committee. We go through a
process. We all have a vote. It's about 80 percent based on the art, 20 percent based
on the accompanying paragraph, and these again were our finalists. Now, the hope of
this project is to change every year and to have different art that stays bright and does
put a different look on our community every year. And I think we're accomplishing that
goal. So I'm proud of this project. I want to see it move forward.
And for the gentlemen, if you do go to the Fountain Hills public art website, you will see
the display last year how the art was applied to the wall. There is a visual.
GRZYBOWSKI: I remember the conversation about the problem with painting the
concrete. That was a -- I agree wholeheartedly. We used to have a concrete house and
you want to paint all the sides and the concrete just doesn't like the paint. So that was a
big conversation. We discussed it. You brought it up to us at council and we agreed,
let's find another solution. And you came up with a great one. I love your theme. I
think it's fantastic. The artwork is absolutely stunning. I can't wait to see these things
on the plates. Art is in the eye of the beholder. Not everybody likes southwestern art.
It's just a thing. One of the suggestions I have for anybody that finds that they don't like
the way this process is done. Next time we have an opening on the public art
committee, maybe they should apply. But I love your theme. I love the photos. More
power to you for going through 200 to pick your favorites. I have absolutely no idea
how I would do something like that. I love this and I'm going to be yes after somebody
makes a motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you ma'am. Yes, Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I second that with what Sharron said. I think this is beautiful. I think each
and every one of these are individual, have great expressions, and I think it's going to
look fantastic where it is. And I appreciate all your due diligence going through what?
300, et cetera. And I love the explanations about each of the pictures so that you could
understand them. So thank you very much for doing this and I look forward to next
Page 71 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
year's as well. So, thank you.
GOLLON: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
FRIEDEL: I just had a question. So, we have one local artist that made the cut?
GOLLON: Yes. We only had one local artist. Now we don't look at that. I mean, what
we look at is the paragraph and the artwork. So, there were a few more that I know of
that applied. And you know, that's why we go through the process where it's kind of a
blind --
FRIEDEL: I thought maybe, though, when we, I remember you mentioning expressions,
and I remember the butterfly thing that Ed Stizza talked about. I thought this would be
more to highlight local artists from our town, like the Art League.
GOLLON: Regional --
FRIEDEL: I'm sorry?
GOLLON: It's a regional contest.
FRIEDEL: Regional contest. Seems like we stretched our region pretty far.
GOLLON: Yeah. A few people jumped in there that -- again, we don't look at where
they're from. We looked at the paragraph --
FRIEDEL: So, like the Fountain Hills Art League, they've got like 50 members. Were they
involved with this?
GOLLON: I presented it to the Art League.
FRIEDEL: Okay.
GOLLON: And I went around and encouraged several of them to apply.
MCMAHON: Okay. All right. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I've got strengths and I've got weaknesses, and
art is not my strength. And so, it's just good that we have a committee like yourself that
is so engaged with the various art community and does a lot of research and work on
that, and that's why we have committees and that's why we have experts. And so thank
you for all the time that you spent putting this together and for these
recommendations. And yeah, it looks pretty nice to me. Thank you.
Page 72 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
GOLLON: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Can I make a motion?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. And I just want to say something.
MCMAHON: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: I was just going to say when you first started, did you say expressions
of plants too?
WILLIGROD: I did.
MAYOR DICKEY: Did you say plants?
WILLIGROD: Yeah, we did.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right.
GOLLON: We said that it could be of human, animal, or plant. sometimes you can have
a --
MAYOR DICKEY: So no Audrey too? I was expecting to see Little Shop of Horrors or
something. So --
GOLLON: No, I mean, there was a great variety and yeah, it was a hard choice to tell the
truth.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I'd like to make a motion to approve the second year of the public Art
Committee Pump House Wall project and authorize the installation of Expressions
artwork submissions.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call,
please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Nay, but only because I'd love to see more Arizona. I love your theme. I love
what you're doing. I love you guys. I'm sorry.
Page 73 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Passes six to one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks you guys very much. Our next item is the AI, consideration of
adopting an ethical artificial intelligence policy. We had this brought to us by the vice
mayor. So we'll have our presentation. We'll see if we have any speaker cards and then
we'll discuss.
CICCARONE: Good evening, Madam Mayor, and town council. I'll be brief. I'm sure
there's going to be tons of questions. I have the pleasure of presenting the town's
ethical artificial intelligence policy for your consideration. At the request of Vice Mayor
Kalivianakis, staff was directed to draft a policy governing the implementation and use
of artificial intelligence technologies. So this is just a framework outlining the
responsibilities of the town while implementing and using any Al technology. At this
time, the town doesn't have any plans to implement Al technologies. That doesn't
mean that down the road we won't. This policy will be reviewed periodically and
updated as necessary to address emerging challenges, technological advancements, and
changes in legal and regulatory frameworks related to Al.
The town's Al policy affirms the commitment to responsible and ethical use of Al
through the principles that ensure transparency, fairness, accountability, and protection
of individual rights and privacy in all Al related activities conducted by the town. So this
policy only relates to the operations of the town. It doesn't have any impact in the
Page 74 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
community other than Town of Fountain Hills. Happy to answer any questions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. First, we have one comment that they're for the
policy and then we have one speaker card, and that's Matthew Corrigan.
CORRIGAN: Mayor, Council, Matthew Corrigan. I just urge a little bit of caution and
further review on this policy tonight, agenda item 9.E. And it's not the establishment of
the ethical Al policy itself, but maybe the temptation of the town government to expand
its reach, either by hiring more staff or expanding the information technology
administrator role, or by renaming his title or authority to control town employee
communications. Don't get me wrong, I love our town. I love it the way it is. But I have
concerns, as maybe we all should. Why the caution and the concern? We've all read
about it. We all know about it. Maybe we just need to remember what just happened?
Let's review. On April 9th, 2012, 12 years ago, the town of Gilbert, Arizona hired Dana
Berchman as communications manager. Berchman was praised by media, government
leaders, Al industry, the tech industry and showered with awards. Berchman was
rewarded well over a 12-year span and became the chief digital officer of Office of
Digital Governance, ODG, with 12 employees and controlled 30 digital accounts and all
personal online posts. Berchman annual salary was $200,800 annual, and her
department cost Gilbert taxpayers 1.15 million annually. Public records revealed that
under Berchman, ODG contracted various leadership -- contacted various leadership
about employees' online speech if they ran counter to her progressive ideals or
appeared to be critical of her department, ODG. Leadership was then expected to
confront the employees about their speech when the story went public via AZ Free news
sources, and in January, Gilbert Town council meeting heard from residents who
demanded an end to the free speech violations. One former employee, on the
condition of anonymity, said they left their job in part due to ODG's control over the
departments. Now again, this is a bit of history, but then again, remember what
happened. Dana Berchman resigned on February 20th this year prior to the town
council investigation of her activities. Her last day was March 7th. That's not to say that
Page 75 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
could happen here. It might happen here. I just want to be cautious in proceeding with
our description of the Al ethical policy and not go beyond that. My only concern. I love
the town. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Oh, thank you, Madam Mayor. I think Councilor Toth was first, though.
TOTH: That's all right. You gave the tie to me on the second. I'll let you go first on this
one.
SKILLICORN: Quick question for Administrator Ciccarone. Is this like an ideal set of
practices? The research that you did to come up with this, I'm sure it wasn't out of the
blue. We don't need a long explanation, just kind of curious where it came from.
CICCARONE: Sure. So this policy is based on the City of Tempe's Al policy. I did also
take a look at City of San Jose, City of Seattle, City of Boston. They're kind of the leaders
in Al technologies. I did pull some parts out of their policies, but I think the Tempe one
pretty much matched what we were looking for. And I think the vice mayor could
probably speak on that as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: I was going to say, let's let Hannah ask her question, and then, Brenda,
why don't you speak on this?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
TOTH: Thank you. Actually, sorry, it's not a question, it's a comment. Is that still okay?
Okay. This is actually something that I had also brought up at one point. And to quell
what could be or could not be concerns, it's just words I hear about Al online, so I don't
know if it really applies. But to quell some concerns that could be present in the
community when it comes to us making a policy on Al, the reality is, is it be much worse
to not have one? Al is not just like the sci fi movies, you know, the computer and iRobot
that. Yeah, it's not like that. It's also ChatGPT and things that help with your writing and
help with productivity in the office, that could be a realistic addition in the future to the
town. And anyway, I just appreciate the staff's work and researching this. And just in
case there's any perception that we're going to have iRobot as a new code enforcement
Page 76 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
officer or something, that's not what this is.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. And Mike, thank you for all the hard work that
you did on this. I know you've worked extensively, and you kept me in the loop all the
way, and I really appreciate that. And the reason that I thought this was important, I
think it's really good public policy, is many municipalities across the country are getting
these policies now. And this is like the outline to what's going to become the book later.
It's a start. Importantly, it's like at the end it talks about the review process and how
this is going to be updated, updated, updated. And maybe we should have started with
that. But that's a joke. Because this is the beginning of a process. When Hannah
mentions your concern about the interactive programs that you can use to write, I can
literally see a time where this AI kind of program will do all of our correspondence for
us. We'll handle calls from even the public, do our writing for us. And I think it's
important for our residents to know, yeah, did this come from a robot, or did this come
from the mayor, or did this come from the vice mayor, or did this come from a
councilmember? Because we're not going to know. And just so we all kind of get it
here, there's -- like when the wheel was invented, it changed things. When the
automobile was invented. Well, most of us were here when the internet was created,
and it's just changed life as we know it fundamentally and a molecular level. And so,
when you combine quantum computing and intelligent program, they can actually think,
it can be really scary. And the one thing too, with the, with the next generation of
programing is before the supercomputers simply had a yes or no, yes, or no, approve,
not approve. With the new programing that's coming up, there's not switches yes, no.
But there are maybes, and this might be better for you. And so it's going to take you on
a journey that you might not want to take it. And so, I'm just very concerned about
that. And I'm also very concerned that five years from now, somebody can have
complained of the town three times and then finally confronts you in a grocery store.
And like, I've corresponded with the town, I've talked to people, and then you do the
research. It's like, you know what? All those contacts were with a machine, you never
talked to a person. And so, I think it's good that we respect human rights, human
Page 77 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
dignity, and this should be a tool that we use. We shouldn't be the tool it uses. And
that's why we wanted this policy. So thank you very much.
CICCARONE: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Sorry. Just a funny sidebar. But speaking of how quickly the Al technology has
advanced and why it's important for us to have a policy now, even though we're not
necessarily planning on using it soon. It is a tool and it's helpful, it can help our
productivity. But to our vice mayor's point, we're already seeing some kind of scary
stuff with Al. Not going tinfoil hat over here, I just Googled recently -- I actually got in
some trouble because in efforts to do a good thing and to be helpful, they accidentally
overcompensated and it ended up, like, practically impossible for it to generate a
picture of a white male. And there's been all these stories coming out. I don't know if
anyone else is getting these, but I swear I get them like three times a day. These phone
calls that are from, maybe real nonprofits, maybe not, asking for donations and you
think it's a real person and you go -- you try and say something of, oh yeah, I want to
support that. But you know, I'd rather do it later. And then they ask the same question,
and you go, oh, I'm talking to a robot right now. And maybe that reveals how I should
maybe pay more attention when I'm on the phone, and maybe I should be realizing right
away that it's a robot.
But my point being, this technology is so new and it's advancing so quickly because
there's so many of our greatest minds working on it right now, which is wonderful and
it's exciting, but there's also opening up that need to kind of protect ourselves from how
it's used, if we do use it. And I will stop ranting about it now.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: I do agree that it totally helps with productivity. I think that we forget
that we've been using chat bots for years. We've been talking to Al, like, years. I don't
think you guys realize how many years it's been. My husband's full-time job is security
for big data software companies, so I gave it to him to review and he said he doesn't see
any problems with it. It's a great go. And I'm actually under the impression that you
Page 78 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
guys were working on this long before the councilwoman even brought it up. So I
appreciate the work that you guys did on it, and the different towns and cities that
you've looped in and tried to do the right thing for us. Thank you.
CICCARONE: Mayor, if I may?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
CICCARONE: So I'm part of the MAG TAG. It's the Maricopa County Association of
Governments Technology Advisory Group, and it's something that we've been talking
about in that group setting for months now. I think Tempe started off with talking
about their policy. Pretty much all the other member cities are in that same boat, trying
to figure out a policy and basing it on the Tempe one, obviously making their tweaks. I
think the Tempe policy was a page and a half, and we turned it into three and a half,
four pages. So, I think ours is a little bit more comprehensive. But it's kind of that same
thing. It's going to be updated. It needs to be updated because the technology is
changing so quickly. And then one final thought. I think the next year we're going to
start to see Al come to our phones, come to our computers, and it's going to be more
prevalent in everyday life. So, if we don't choose to accept it now it's going to come and
we'll be just doing this down the road. So, I think it comes at a good time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Definitely. There were a couple articles because I wanted to try to get
to know a little bit more about it, too, and one of one of them was about Tempe, and I
think they started like in June. And then reading how cities are taking the lead on this all
over the country. So, I think that's something that is very appropriate for us. And part
of what I saw was that a growing number of universities are starting to have Al as a
major. So they're recognizing it. It's in health and transportation and just all kinds of
public policy. So unless there's any other comments, I get a motion, please?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Move to adopt the Town of Fountain Hills ethical artificial
intelligence policy.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
Page 79 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL:
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL:
Councilmember Friedel?
Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Passes unanimously.
MAYOR DICKEY: Easy for you to say. Well, thank you very much. Our next item is our
typical legislative one. We had a call yesterday with -- and then they sent us a pretty
good wrap-up on it. I think, if anything, I want to mention is just that there are two
zoning bills that we do support. So, I think that was one of his messages was that not
we're not always saying no to everything, we are compromising. So, on 1162 residential
zoning housing assessment hearings, and even though it's a population of 30,000 or
more, there are a couple things in there that would apply to us. But it's a good bill. And
2297 zoning, adaptive reuse, commercial buildings, is also one that we want to support.
And there's a couple of really ones -- I never like to say bad bills, but just bills that aren't
good for the town. And so they'll be working on those and to try to see if we can, if they
can put a stop to those. Did anybody -- I'm sure you all got the same email. So do you
want to talk about any of that or. I think we've taken positions on all of them already.
So okay. So, we don't have any action on that.
As far as call to the public did, was there anything there for action? I don't think so.
And then future agenda items, item 11. No? All right. Well, thank you very much. And
Page 80 of 81
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
APRIL 2, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
enjoy the rest of your evening. And we're adjourned.
Page 81 of 81
Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting
of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on April 2, 2024, at 8:51 p.m.
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
Giy Dickey, Mayor
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the
minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the
Town Hall Council Chambers on the 2nd day of April 2024. I further certify that the
meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 21st Day of May 2024.
in
Linda G. M`endenhall, Town Clerk