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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMMPC.2024.0123.MinutesMCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024 A Regular Meeting of the MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:04 p.m. Members Present: Chair Scott Grzybowski: Vice Chair Steve Nurney, Commissioner Bill Craig Commissioner Janice Holden, Commissioner Sherry Irwin; Commissioner DJ Williard Absent: Commissioner Brian Jennings Staff Present: Community Services Director Kevin Snipes; Executive Assistant Patti Lopuszanski -1- https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Let's get it recorded. All right, we're going to Call to Order the MMPC meeting of January 23, 2024, at will say 1704. Roll Call, please? LOPUSZANSKI: Chair Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Hear. LOPUSZANSKI: Vice Chair Nurney? NURNEY: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Craig? CRAIG: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Holden? HOLDEN: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Irwin? IRWIN: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Jennings is absent. Commissioner Willard? WILLARD: Here. GRZYBOWSKI: Item Number 3. Reports by Commissioners. Does anybody have any important stuff to pass out? Other than agenda items? Anything? Nope. Okay. On to Number 4. CaII to the Public. Do we have any comment cards? LOPUSZANSKI: No, Call to Public. GRZYBOWSKI: Item number 5. Approval of November Minutes we're going to Table until the next meeting. Alright, so Item Number 6 is our big item for tonight is the Consideration and Possible Action of Sunsetting the MMPC. So, in the packet, we have the revised document of the Sunsetting of MMPC. Those were inputs that we edited based on the Sonoran Conservancy Board comments. So, the only big thing that was in there was that the Conservancy didn't feel like there was a reason to add that layer of bureaucracy to the Community Services Advisory Commission (CSAC). Right. So, there's already a process in place where the Sonoran Conservancy meets, I think, at least three times a year, with Kevin and the town staff, and any more can be done as needed. And we felt that that's all we need. So that was that other section about CSAC that was removed. HOLDEN: So basically, with those changes, the Sonoran Conservancy Board approves the document. So, those changes are made. Yeah, that's fine. GRZYBOWSKI: And then Janice also recommended well, I mean, the Conservancy, not just Janice the Sonoran Conservancy recommended that we put that Document History in there, which I did put in the front. We did a few minor edits in the accomplishments, there was an asterisk that was floating around that shouldn't have been there, and we removed that. So, if there's no discussion, then it's somewhat.... HOLDEN: Did you date it? Why is this so loud? Did you date it? GRZYBOWSKI: It is dated, at the top. IRWIN: Look at the Document History Table. GRZYBOWSKI: And then we did date, we're recommending that as of effective February 1, 2024, that we sunset the MMPC, we all know that this is just our recommendation, and it's got to go to staff, then go to Council, you know, we could have a meeting in February could have a meeting in March, etcetera. But this is what our recommendation was. NURNEY: So, 1 should know this since I was one of the co-authors, I guess. But um, so what is the next step with this document? Will this be presented as is to the Town Council? 2 Transcribed https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES SNIPES: So, what we'll do first is we'll run it through staff, and then it'll go to Council. So as long as myself and the Town Manager get a chance to look at it and are okay with it, then it'll go to the Council. NURNEY: Can I, I hate to do this? Because again, I was one of them. But can I suggest, first of all, that there's a super minor typo with the capital 0 in Council in the second sub -bullet? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, yeah, I'II fix that. NURNEY: And then I was just thinking that maybe we put you know how we end with "we are recommending the sunset" in bold. I wonder if we move that up to just before moving forward. So, they know that what we're recommending is that we sunset the MMPC and therefore move forward. It just seemed like it didn't read quite right. GRZYBOWSKI: So put it before the moving forward section as its own separate sentence right at the end. Okay. I like that. That's a good idea. NURNEY: I know it's nitpicky, but it just seems to flow a little better. HOLDEN: And then my only other thought was, should it not state somewhere that the Conservancy agrees? That is somewhere that we thought the Conservancy was in concurrence. We don't say that with these changes, is what I was trying to say before. With these changes, this document has the approval of the Board and we could put that if you agree, then maybe it's the last sentence or... SNIPES: The only spot where you do have that is when the document history says updates based on Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Board, you could add approval in that if that makes it fast and easy. HOLDEN: Okay, we can add it there. That's fine. Well, except it's not just the updates, it would be the whole document that has the approval of the Sonoran Conservancy. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, well, I was going to say so we could add another document history. Yeah, another box. That's, I think that would be because I would like to do today is I would like to get a motion based on the changes we just recommended and approve it today. So, we would have to come back again. So, the easier we can make the changes, the easier it is to make the motion. Okay. WILLARD: I do have one question for Kevin. Do you anticipate any issues or anything coming back? SNIPES: No, I don't anticipate any issues on our side. That's just the process that it has to go through. And so if we look at it, and we see something, we'll bring it back up to you and then we can go from there but I don't foresee there being any issue with the way that we I mean, it's not like Rachael doesn't know and I know what we've been talking about for the last few months and getting this done correctly. So should be good. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, give me a second to make some notes before I make a motion. Okay, so what I would like to do is I would like to make a Motion to Approve the Sunsetting of the MMPC Document with the following edits: 1. Add a new box in the Document History that the Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Board has approved this document. 2. We will move the Recommendation to Sunset above the Moving Forward section to make more sense and any typos. GRZYBOWSKI: Do I have a second? IRWIN: Second. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. All in favor? 3 - https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES ALL: Aye. GRZYBOWSKI: Any opposed? No. Motion carries (6-0). So, what I'll do is I'll get this edited tomorrow and then I'll get it to Patti with the updates. Okay. All right, bringing this back to the agenda items already lost my place. Give me a second. Seven. Okay, what was seven? Number 7. Update and Possible Action in Trail Designation? That will be Sherry. IRWIN: Yeah. So um, this is just a continuation from the last time we discussed this. I want to go ahead with the application for I'd like to suggest we go through with the application for two trails, Ridgeline and Lower to Upper, you know, Trailhead Adero Promenade, pick the Lower or Sonoran and do the loop. So, I'll fill out the forms. Any questions or concerns? Does anybody want to do... Well, I'm not going to commit to more than two. So, I will commit to two but concerned if there are any questions or discussions or if somebody wants to do something different. WILLARD: So, it sounded like the way you said that, that you're not thinking of doing the Ridgeline Loop or the Sonoran Loop with the crossovers. It seems like I mean, that's what I would think of is do both of them. IRWIN: Okay, yeah, sure. So, Ridgeline would be Ridgeline to the Lower Ridgeline out and then back. Okay. Sure. WILLARD: And then the thing with the Sonoran is I think it's very cool to have the two crossovers so that there are a lot of options for how much a hiker wants to pick. IRWIN: So, just add them into the overall trail section then the map, and this yeah, okay with crossovers. Okay. Sure. HOLDEN: Yeah, like those two also because, unlike the Ridgeline, at least on the Sonorans, you can take a bike. Ridgeline is hiker only, and the other is both which I thought was nice. So, I think yeah, if you can call it what if you just can you just call it the Sonoran and the Ridgeline you can't do that with it has to be the Ridgeline and the Lower. GRZYBOWSKI: Do we have to say the Promenade or do we just call it the Sonoran all the way out for the application? I say we do just one word one name. IRWIN: Okay, so the Sonoran Trail, and then Ridgeline Trail? Okay. CRAIG: Would that be confusing when it's on paper? IRWIN: Well, I know that's the thing. You know what? I guess I just wanted to not be confusing. So let me make sure let me see what others have done. And if there's any specific guidance on the naming, as long as you guys agree that those are like the two trails, then if there's any dispute or some weird thing on naming, I can send it to Patti, and everybody can approve it. NURNEY: I mean, the Promenade isn't an award -winning trail. IRWIN: Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Yeah, yeah. NURNEY: And another just tiny minor thing, when we're talking about Ridgeline Loop. I think it's nice to go all the way to the end of the Ridgeline, and then come back into the Lower. IRWIN: I would disagree with that. So, I think that we could argue everybody would have an opinion on that. So I think we just call it Ridgeline, or we call... NURNEY: Yeah, well, that's fine. IRWIN: Because I don't think we have to be directional. HOLDEN: You could do like Ridgeline/Lower Ridgeline and just call the other one the Sonoran Trail. IRWIN: Okay. - 4 - Transcribe:.: ; https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES HOLDEN: Because I can see where it could be confusing or create a complication when we have the Ridgeline to the Lower Ridgeline in there. But yes, as much as you can make it general if you can. IRWIN: I don't want to call it the Ridgeline Loop, though, because we don't have a trail called the Ridgeline Loop. I can start on those we have until October. HOLDEN: All right. How many? How many signs do you get per trail? Do you know, I don't remember. Like, they give you these cool little signs. IRWIN: I think we get two per trail and then if you want more later, you can ask for them, but they're going to give them to you like in paper or cardboard it's not going to be the nice metal ones. Yeah. CRAIG: Are we going to have somebody from the Conservancy take over this if we sunset? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, that was the plan. HOLDEN: I mean, as far as the signage goes, or as far as...oh, I thought...did Sherry not agree to take it on? GRZYBOWSKI: Sherry agreed that she'd work on this application. But if you want to apply for one later, then yeah, that would be up to the Conservancy. HOLDEN: Yeah, right. Yeah, or we call Sherry. SNIPES: Unless she loves it. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, government paperwork. Good. Thanks for that. Alright, Number 8. Sonoran Conservancy Liaison Update. HOLDEN: Okay, we had our last first aid classes this season, exclusively for the volunteers. We had a really good turnout. So that's good. We don't do the online thing anymore because it just didn't work out as well. We did hold an open house because we do need to recruit volunteers since we have created a robust program and it's hard to know how many people, you're going to get to fill all the slots. It was a rainy Sunday, and we had to move it from the trailhead into the Chamber of Commerce, and to my shock of all shocks, 35 people walked through that door. And right, I was like, for better or worse. everybody wants to be a Trailblazer. So that's going to be Bill's job. The good news and the bad. CRAIG: Yes, so we'll deal with this. NURNEY: Currently, Scott needs some help. HOLDEN: Oh, did Scott fall down on the job? GRZYBOWSKI: I had a promote some folks that are maybe a little senior to the rock moving crew. We ran out of young people with strength for the rock. So was good because they were excited. They got promoted to the rock -moving crew. You guys are young now and you're in the rock move crew. Whether their body agreed with that, I don't know. HOLDEN: We worked hard to train the folks, we have the hosts and stewards. So, we have that as well. But we do need to increase the hosting to daily at the end of this month, which requires a lot of people power. So, Kevin, we did ask Ryan to post two signs up on the kiosk. One he has no problem with is a list of our activities all through the rest of the season with the QR codes so that you can link to the website. But he did not want to put the volunteer. So, we have another flyer that asks for volunteers. And I don't know if it's kind of one of those issues where if you have that on one, you must have it on many, but I wasn't sure if pickleball had the same problem. SNIPES: Yeah. So, it's kind of it is that it becomes why does this 501 C (3) get to ask for volunteers, and we don't. So that's the reason that it was denied for being published. 5 https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES IRWIN: So, Janice, I'm wondering if I just saw something in the news or something about, like the Fountain Hills Fair, not the fair they have. HOLDEN: We have the Volunteer Day Expo tomorrow the 24th. Yeah, three to five were there. It's not exactly. It's, you're not going to get the big guys to move the rocks or the big people. We've done it before. But we're going to do it again. Because it's a good point. We do look at a number of other events that the Dark Skies people put out when they have that event at the end of March, but it's something that has 3000 people attend. It's not where you are going to recruit anybody. IRWIN: I'm hearing two different things. I'm hearing that we have too many Trailblazers, and then I just heard you say we need more able bodies. So, what do we need from a Trailblazer perspective? CRAIG: I'm dealing with it. I mean, we had supposedly 25 last Saturday. I'm a little concerned, as I mentioned, safety -wise, but as long as I have enough crew leaders there, to manage and help me out. I've been able to incorporate and use everybody that wants to work. IRWIN: Okay. GRZYBOWSKI: I think it's just that we'll have a couple more years at any serious trail building and rocks. So, of course, we can always use someone a little younger, that has some strength for moving rock that's all. CRAIG: We've had 1,2,3,4,5 able-bodied males and a number of able-bodied females, I think we're going to be okay. HOLDEN: And then the last thing is the Desert Botanical Garden, which is a membership organization they fall under, they don't have a 501 C 3. So, they fall under ours. And we kind of assumed them under ours. But nobody wanted to step up and lead it. So, the lead person resigned in December, and they have nobody at the moment. And so, they're meeting to try and figure out they had their Board meeting to figure out what they want to do. And if nobody steps up, I don't know Pam and I and the Board are going to try and figure out how I mean, we can't take on much more seriously, we're kind of maxed out, right? We are doing the Trailblaze. I mean, we already do the maintenance Bill and his team watch out for maintenance in the garden. So that's the most important part. But they also do chores. They've covered those for this year but if we don't have more people, it stretches our people a lot, we won't let it kind of just go. We won't let it fall apart. But we do need to figure it out I think it needs to be restructured and reorganized, but maybe they'll come up with their own, but Stan has been great. CRAIG: Stan? Ruden? Yeah, no. Stan Johnson. HOLDEN: Oh Johnson. Okay doesn't matter so that was all that I had for the Conservancy. Thank you. GRZYBOWSKI: All right, very good. Item Number 9. Stayloc Installation Entryway. So, we just had a lot of rain right do we have some updates on the Stayloc? Were you up there today? CRAIG: I was it was bad. But the owner was there, also, and I'm sure he's going to contact you because you can see where he purposely slid down some of it and everybody's footprints are in it. Yes, definitely did. IRWIN: Is that by design? Do they know that that's going to happen or not? CRAIG: I think it had to do with not expecting the kind of rain. We just had to me it started to harden slowly and he agreed. But he knows something must be done. SNIPES: Well, what happened was it was yeah, it was put down wetter than it should have been. And that was where there was an issue. And so, with that start getting something to get through a layer is much more difficult than to get it to dry out the way that it should. So yeah, I'll reach out to Clay and talk to him about it. 6 - Transcribed L., https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES CRAIG: Yeah, right now it's kind of dangerous. NURNEY: Is it slippery? CRAIG: Yes. very slippery. GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Okay, moving on to Item Number 10. Update on the New Trail Counters. Any update on that, Kevin? SNIPES: So, I have one put in at the entrance. I haven't had a chance lately to look and see. I'm having some issues with connectivity. And so that's something that I need to dive into further to see if it's location -oriented or if it's installer -oriented. GRZYBOWSKI: It's probably all related to the Wi-fi. SNIPES: That's what I would think. Yeah. HOLDEN: But I do have trouble sometimes right at the trailhead, getting reception, like a dead zone. It's kind of crazy. But the one at the trailhead is the only one you've installed so far. Okay. GRZYBOWSKI: Well, I mean, we're all excited to see how those work. So hey, let's work through it. Okay, that brings us to Item number 11, Update on Moving of the Toolboxes. So last time we discussed this, Kevin, I think you said that we could use the mule to get at least down to the end of the Promenade, right? At least we get that one box down with an ATV, whatever you call that. SNIPES: Yeah, so a couple of different things that have come up. One of my staff members has done some bridge building and things like that on trails. And he threw out that he thinks that we should be able to rent a motorized wheel barrel. So that it will sit on a flat surface strap and then be driven out. And they're designed to go on trails, I have not had a chance to look to see if I can send over that information and we can see if we can figure that out. I just haven't had time to dive further into it. But I do think it's a good idea. I did look it up and it seems like something that would be a viable solution to getting it through some more rugged areas where you may have to carry it a few feet here or there. But then you can re -load it and wheel it again. You know, worst -case scenario? CRAIG: Yeah, I'd like to put one at the end of the Promenade and then one where the Lower Ridgeline breaks off from the Ridgeline. GRZYBOWSKI: It's good. I've seen similar items like that. Yeah, it's like a one -wheel wheelbarrow. It's flat. You can move it. Cool. All right. Item number 12. Update on Signs. We threw the signs back out here. Just want to make sure we're on track with getting signs. And then I know Bill and I discussed there's an extra sign that's on the street saying 1.5 miles up to the trailhead, and there's another one that says something similar and like it's not that far. CRAIG: There are two of them. Yeah. Two of the brown signs both say a mile and a quarter and the one that's farthest away even itself Tess than a mile and a quarter. There's one before the first crossroad and it's not quite a mile and a quarter but close enough that I think you can leave it there. The other one is about 200 yards closer to the trailhead itself. GRZYBOWSKI: So, our question is why do we have two of them there? Can we remove one of them? SNIPES: Yeah, if I was guessing, I would bet that one was put in before the completion of the area and then another one was put in. There may have been a left-hand right-hand scenario there who knows they weren't talking to each other? So, I'm not sure but I'll get with Justin on that since they're street signs and have them look at it. CRAIG: You want to go further with all the signage? GRZYBOWSKI: Sure. Yeah. I mean, I'm looking at some of the we looked at some of the sign details that are in the packet. - 7 - https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES CRAIG: Yeah. I think Kevin and I and Kenny have all signed off. Except for one thing and I like to throw it out and see what people think. We had one person who was direction -challenged and came to the end of a crossover between the Sonorans and didn't know which way to turn to go back to the trailhead. I brought it up when I heard about it do you think we need one there and if so, I think it should be Adero Canyon Trailhead This Way. I just assumed say the heck with it. GRZYBOWSKI: I mean, yeah, we've never had one there before. NURNEY: As he goes around in circles. SNIPES: The third time around they should figure it out. WILLARD: I say natural selection is playing all right. SNIPES: I'm fine with that. CRAIG: Any idea then? Time wise? SNIPES: If we're good with these, I can get them sent over I mean, their Fast Signs usually gets them to us in a week, two weeks max. They're really fast. So I think I mean, a lot of times I get them back the same week, I just ordered some today. And they said they'd have them to me tomorrow. So, and, you know, this is a little bit more. So, I think it'll take a little bit longer, but it's typically a week or less with them. CRAIG: Okay. I've got somebody to help with that, hopefully, to take over in terms of the signs. HOLDEN: So, I'm sorry. So, the issue with the confusion on the Sonoran what did we decide? To let it go? CRAIG: Let it go. HOLDEN: Okay, I will. I personally didn't see the problem. But the people who did see the problem, like they're serious Conservancy hikers, and they're I mean, Pam was there, and Steve was there. I don't know who brought it up. I don't know who that person was. But they sort of confirmed it. And I looked at all the pictures, I still don't see the problem myself. And I figured all right. So, we're just going to say that you guys had a problem, but we don't. So, we're going to let it go. We're not sure. NURNEY: What is the harm in putting a sign there? HOLDEN: I'm sorry. NURNEY: In that case, what is the harm in putting a sign there? SNIPES: I think that can be handled in two different ways. One, you know we can put a sign everywhere out there every single time there's a zig or zag, right? So, we can always have people that are getting lost or miss a sign or whatever. I think if it's not something that's been a repetitive issue that we're hearing from our trail hosts, then one person's problem isn't an issue for the masses, I guess. And so that would be how I look at that and if it is then it's not a big deal to put another sign out there. But if it's something where this is the first time that we're hearing of it, then we can always put one out later if it does become a thing where we're seeing that more people are having that issue. HOLDEN: Okay. I mean, theoretically, there won't be a commission to take up this issue, I guess this is my point next month. So, this would come from the Conservancy because these were the Conservancy Board members who felt this should have changed in response to somebody who raised it. But okay, then that's fine. We'II leave it if it becomes a serious issue. GRZYBOWSKI: Alright, so onto the Trail Counter Activity Report. Again, the numbers always look good, they have increased now, I do notice that Lake Overlook is slowing down because it is the holidays in December. So those numbers did go down a little bit. But everything else looks consistent with what we normally see going up throughout the season. 8 - https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES HOLDEN: So again, I have suggested at some point than I thought. And I liked that we have this comparison now this year over year comparison, and I think that's great. But if we're going to do that back in 2018. Therefore, we completed things four the trailhead for trails, including the opening of the trailhead. So, I recommended that we put it in there as completion of the Ridgeline 2022 was the completion of the Lower Ridgeline, and 2023 was the North Leg, and of course, 2020 to 2021 was COVID. So, I think just if you're going to have a year -over -year comparison, we should probably indicate those things. So, if you agree, I will ask for them to include it. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I think it's easy to put on the legend so let's include it. That's good. Okay. HOLDEN: Okay. All right. I will ask them to do that. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, the last item would be Future Agenda Items. I can't think of anything out of the ordinary. I think we should include the standard ones that we have here, liaisons, trails, and counters. We may not even have a meeting in February. I'm thinking probably not the way we have moved on this. I don't think it'll be all approved at that time. But those are the only ones I could think of that we need. WILLARD: I mean, my thought is we are wrapping everything up. Is there a reason even if we're not disbanded and it hasn't gone through that we want to schedule a meeting if there's nothing to discuss? CRAIG: Just one agenda item I was going to throw out was about the next 100 yards or 100 feet past the present Stayloc. The consideration of putting some more Stayloc up there. If we get this straightened out. SNIPES: Yeah, and that's something that I can look into with Clay as well. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, so I'm with DJ if no item needs voting on and there's no action that we need to take I would say that we table next month's meeting till further notice. So as far as the minutes go, I could just come in and sign them. Well, we could vote by email, and I could sign them, right? LOPUSZANSKI: We could do that. So let me do that. I will send out the minutes from the last meeting and then this meeting. You all will be able to review them and then vote on them individually. Send me a response back and then we can get Scott to come in to sign them. GRZYBOWSKI: Perfect. All right, the meeting is adjourned at 1740. Having no further business, Chair Grzybowski adjourned the Regular Meeting of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission on January 23, 2024, at 5:40 P.M. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION Scott Grzybowski, Chair ATTEST AND PREPARED B QCc Patti Lopuszanski, cutive Assistant -9 https://otter.ai MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JANUARY 23, 2024, VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 23rd day of January 2024. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 27th day of February 2024 Patti Lopuszan ki, cutive Assistant - 10 - Transcribe;: by https://otter.ai