HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022.0920.TCRM.Packet
NOTICE OF MEETING
REGULAR MEETING
FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
Mayor Ginny Dickey
Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel
Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski
Councilmember Alan Magazine
Councilmember Peggy McMahon
Councilmember Mike Scharnow
Councilmember David Spelich
TIME:5:30 P.M. – REGULAR MEETING
WHEN:TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 20, 2022
WHERE:
FOUNTAIN HILLS COUNCIL CHAMBERS
16705 E. AVENUE OF THE FOUNTAINS, FOUNTAIN HILLS, AZ
Councilmembers of the Town of Fountain Hills will attend either in person or by telephone conference
call; a quorum of the Town’s various Commission, Committee or Board members may be in attendance at
the Council meeting.
Notice is hereby given that pursuant to A.R.S. §1-602.A.9, subject to certain specified statutory
exceptions, parents have a right to consent before the State or any of its political subdivisions make a
video or audio recording of a minor child. Meetings of the Town Council are audio and/or video recorded
and, as a result, proceedings in which children are present may be subject to such recording. Parents, in
order to exercise their rights may either file written consent with the Town Clerk to such recording, or
take personal action to ensure that their child or children are not present when a recording may be made.
If a child is present at the time a recording is made, the Town will assume that the rights afforded parents
pursuant to A.R.S. §1-602.A.9 have been waived.
REQUEST TO COMMENT
The public is welcome to participate in Council meetings.
TO SPEAK TO AN AGENDA ITEM, please complete a Request to Comment card, located in the back of the Council
Chambers, and hand it to the Town Clerk prior to discussion of that item, if possible. Include the agenda item on which
you wish to comment. Speakers will be allowed three contiguous minutes to address the Council. Verbal comments
should be directed through the Presiding Officer and not to individual Councilmembers.
TO COMMENT ON AN AGENDA ITEM IN WRITING ONLY, please complete a Request to Comment card, indicating it is a
written comment, and check the box on whether you are FOR or AGAINST and agenda item, and hand it to the Town
Clerk prior to discussion, if possible.
TO COMMENT IN WRITING ONLINE: Please feel free to provide your comments by visiting
https://www.fh.az.gov/publiccomment and SUBMIT a Public Comment Card by 3:00 PM on the day of the meeting.
These comments will be shared with the Town Council.
NOTICE OF OPTION TO RECESS INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION
Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.02, notice is hereby given to the members of the Town Council, and to the general public, that at
this meeting, the Town Council may vote to go into executive session, which will not be open to the public, for legal advice and
discussion with the Town's attorneys for legal advice on any item listed on the following agenda, pursuant to A.R.S.
§38-431.03(A)(3).
1.CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE – Mayor Dickey
2.MOMENT OF SILENCE
3.ROLL CALL – Mayor Dickey
4.REPORTS BY MAYOR, COUNCILMEMBERS AND TOWN MANAGER
A.RECOGNITION: Stellar Students of the Month for September.
B.PROCLAMATION: September 17 - 23, 2022, as Constitution Week.
5.SCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCES/PRESENTATIONS
A.PRESENTATION: Water Issues Update: Presented by Doug Dunham
B.PRESENTATION: Monthly Report by Captain Kratzer of the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office.
6.CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (not required) on matters NOT listed on the
agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction of the Council, and (ii) is subject to reasonable
time, place, and manner restrictions. The Council will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised during
Call to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed for discussion and legal action. At the conclusion of the
Call to the Public, individual councilmembers may (i) respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to review a matter, or (iii)
ask that the matter be placed on a future Council agenda.
7.CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS
All items listed on the Consent Agenda are considered to be routine, noncontroversial matters and will be
enacted by one motion of the Council. All motions and subsequent approvals of consent items will include all
recommended staff stipulations unless otherwise stated. There will be no separate discussion of these items
unless a councilmember or member of the public so requests. If a councilmember or member of the public wishes
to discuss an item on the Consent Agenda, he/she may request so prior to the motion to accept the Consent
Agenda or with notification to the Town Manager or Mayor prior to the date of the meeting for which the item
was scheduled. The items will be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered in its normal sequence on
the agenda.
A.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes for the Special Meeting of
Town Council Regular Meeting of September 20, 2022 2
A.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes for the Special Meeting of
August 22, 2022, and Work Session of August 22, 2022.
B.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a Special Event Liquor License
application for the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce to serve alcohol at the Dance and
Glow Party on October 22, 2022.
C.CONSIDERATION, AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of Liquor License Application for Bone
Haus Brewing, located at 14825 E. Shea, Fountain Hills, Arizona, for an Extension of
Premises/Patio Permit to create a cellaring room for the brewery.
D.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of budget transfers for the Capital
Project Fund, Vehicle Replacement Fund, and Facilities Reserve Fund, Special Revenue Fund,
and General Fund.
8.REGULAR AGENDA
A.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: A request for a Special Use Permit to allow up to
four dwelling units in the C-C (Common Commercial) zoning district on an 8,000 square-foot
lot located at the northwest corner of El Pueblo Boulevard and Ivory Drive ( Case
#SUP22-000001).
9.COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION to the TOWN MANAGER
Item(s) listed below are related only to the propriety of (i) placing such item(s) on a future agenda for action, or
(ii) directing staff to conduct further research and report back to the Council.
10.ADJOURNMENT
CERTIFICATE OF POSTING OF NOTICE
The undersigned hereby certifies that a copy of the foregoing notice was duly posted in accordance with the statement filed
by the Town Council with the Town Clerk.
Dated this ______ day of ____________________, 2022.
_____________________________________________
Linda G. Mendenhall, MMC, Town Clerk
The Town of Fountain Hills endeavors to make all public meetings accessible to persons with disabilities. Please call 480-816-5199 (voice) or
Town Council Regular Meeting of September 20, 2022 3
The Town of Fountain Hills endeavors to make all public meetings accessible to persons with disabilities. Please call 480-816-5199 (voice) or
1-800-367-8939 (TDD) 48 hours prior to the meeting to request a reasonable accommodation to participate in the meeting or to obtain
agenda information in large print format. Supporting documentation and staff reports furnished the Council with this agenda are available for
review in the Clerk's Office.
Town Council Regular Meeting of September 20, 2022 4
ITEM 4. B.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
STAFF REPORT
Meeting Date: 09/20/2022 Meeting Type: Town Council Regular Meeting
Agenda Type: Reports Submitting Department: Administration
Prepared by: Angela Padgett-Espiritu, Executive Assistant to Manager, Mayor/Council
Staff Contact Information: Angela Padgett-Espiritu, Executive Assistant to Manager,
Mayor/Council
Request to Town Council Regular Meeting (Agenda Language): PROCLAMATION: September 17
- 23, 2022, as Constitution Week.
Staff Summary (Background)
Mayor Dickey will be proclaiming September 17 - 23, 2022, as Constitution Week.
Attachments
Signed Constitution Week Proclamation September 20, 2022
Form Review
Inbox Reviewed By Date
Finance Director David Pock 09/08/2022 11:36 AM
Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson 09/08/2022 02:08 PM
Town Manager Grady E. Miller 09/08/2022 04:57 PM
Form Started By: Angela Padgett-Espiritu Started On: 09/08/2022 10:46 AM
Final Approval Date: 09/08/2022
ITEM 5. A.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
STAFF REPORT
Meeting Date: 09/20/2022 Meeting Type: Town Council Regular
Meeting
Agenda Type: Public Appearances/Presentations
Submitting Department: Administration
Prepared by: Linda Mendenhall, Town Clerk
Staff Contact Information: Grady E. Miller, Town Manager
Request to Town Council Regular Meeting (Agenda Language): PRESENTATION: Water Issues
Update: Presented by Doug Dunham
Staff Summary (Background)
Doug Dunham, Water Resources Manager with EPCOR, will provide an update to the Mayor and Town
Council on EPCOR's water resources, the drought and its possible impacts on water service delivery in
Arizona and Fountain Hills.
Form Review
Inbox Reviewed By Date
Finance Director Linda Mendenhall 09/08/2022 04:07 PM
Town Manager Grady E. Miller 09/08/2022 05:00 PM
Form Started By: Linda Mendenhall Started On: 09/08/2022 03:54 PM
Final Approval Date: 09/08/2022
ITEM 7. A.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
STAFF REPORT
Meeting Date: 09/20/2022 Meeting Type: Town Council Regular Meeting
Agenda Type: Consent Submitting Department: Administration
Prepared by: Linda Mendenhall, Town Clerk
Request to Town Council Regular Meeting (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND
POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes for the Special Meeting of August 22, 2022, and Work
Session of August 22, 2022.
Staff Summary (Background)
The intent of approving meeting minutes is to ensure an accurate account of the discussion and action
that took place at the meeting for archival purposes. Approved minutes are placed on the town's
website and maintained as permanent records in compliance with state law.
Related Ordinance, Policy or Guiding Principle
N/A
Risk Analysis
N/A
Recommendation(s) by Board(s) or Commission(s)
Staff Recommendation(s)
Staff recommends approving the minutes of the Special Meeting of August 22, 2022, and the Work
Session of August 22, 2022.
SUGGESTED MOTION
MOVE to approve the minutes of the Special Meeting of August 22, 2022, and the Work Session of
August 22, 2022.
Attachments
Special Meeting Summary Minutes
Special Meeting Verbatim Transcript
Work Session Summary Minutes
Work Session Verbatim Transcript
Form Review
Inbox Reviewed By Date
Finance Director Linda Mendenhall 09/08/2022 04:32 PM
Town Manager Grady E. Miller 09/08/2022 05:01 PM
Form Started By: Linda Mendenhall Started On: 09/08/2022 04:17 PM
Final Approval Date: 09/08/2022
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
AUGUST 22, 2022
1. CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Mayor Dickey called the Special Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on
August 22, 2022, to order at 5:32 p.m. and led the Council and audience in the Pledge of
Allegiance.
2. MOMENT OF SILENCE
A moment of silence was held.
3. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel; Councilmember
David Spelich; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Alan Magazine;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Mike Scharnow
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town
Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Twenty-seven members of the public were present.
4. REPORTS BY MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND TOWN MANAGER
A. A REPORT FROM STAFF REGARDING 5G AND SMALL CELL WIRELESS
Aaron Arnson, Town Attorney provided a brief overview of the memorandum he
prepared in response to residents’ concerns regarding 5G and small cell wireless.
5. SCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCES/PRESENTATIONS
A. PRESENTATION: 2022 Legislative Session Update: Presented by: Jack
Lunsford
Jack Lunsford with The Lunsford Group provided an update and answered questions
regarding the 2022 Legislative Session.
6. CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (not required) on matters NOT listed on the agenda. Any such comment (i)
must be within the jurisdiction of the Council, and (ii) is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. The Council will not
discuss or take legal action on matters raised during Call to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed for discussion and legal
action. At the conclusion of the Call to the Public, individual councilmembers may (i) respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to review a matter, or
(iii) ask that the matter be placed on a future Council agenda.
Lori Troller, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council concerning 5G and small
cell wireless voicing her appreciation to staff for the upcoming discussions on this topic.
April McCormick, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council concerning 5G and
small cell wireless voicing her appreciation to staff for the upcoming discussions on this
topic.
7. CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS
All items listed on the Consent Agenda are considered to be routine, noncontroversial matters and will be enacted by one
motion of the Council. All motions and subsequent approvals of consent items will include all recommended staff
stipulations unless otherwise stated. There will be no separate discussion of these items unless a councilmember or
member of the public so requests. If a councilmember or member of the public wishes to discuss an item on the Consent
Agenda, he/she may request so prior to the motion to accept the Consent Agenda or with notification to the Town
Manager or Mayor prior to the date of the meeting for which the item was scheduled. The items will be removed from the
Consent Agenda and considered in its normal sequence on the agenda.
MOVED BY Councilmember Alan Magazine to approve the Consent Agenda,
SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski.
Vote: 7 – 0 passed – Unanimously
Councilmember Grzybowski Aye
Councilmember Magazine Aye
Councilmember McMahon Aye
Councilmember Scharnow Aye
Councilmember Spelich Aye
Vice Mayor Friedel Aye
Mayor Dickey Aye
A. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes of the
Regular Meeting of June 21, 2022; Approval of the minutes for the Joint Meeting
with the Fountain Hills Schools District Board of June 21, 2022.
B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Resolution 2022-28 adopting the
Community Services Code of Conduct.
.
C. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Resolution 2022-34, abandoning
the 20’ Public Utility and Drainage Easement along the south side of 17039 E.
Nicklaus Drive (Application A22-000005).
D. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Resolution 2022-35, approving the
designation of Chief Fiscal Officer of the Town of Fountain Hills for FY23.
E. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Resolution 2022-36, approving an
Intergovernmental Agreement with the City of Glendale relating to the
cooperation use of the Glendale hosted and developed Glendale Tax Application.
8. REGULAR AGENDA
A. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Resolution 2022-38 declaring and
adopting the results of the Primary Election held on August 2, 2022.
MOVED BY Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel to approve Resolution 2022-38 as
presented, SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski.
Vote: 7 – 0 Passed – unanimously
Councilmember Grzybowski Aye
Councilmember Magazine Aye
Councilmember McMahon Aye
Councilmember Scharnow Aye
Councilmember Spelich Aye
Vice Mayor Friedel Aye
Mayor Dickey Aye
B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: A request for a Special Use Permit
to allow up to five dwelling units in the C-C (Common Commercial) zoning district
on an 8,000 square-foot lot located at the northwest corner of El Pueblo
Boulevard and Ivory Drive (Case# SUP22-000001).
John Wesley, Director, Development Services presented on the special use
permit for the 8,000 square-foot lot located at the northwest corner of El Pueblo
Boulevard and Ivory Drive.
John Gurczak, a Fountain Hills resident and the builder and developer for the
property provided additional input on the project.
Mayor Dickey opened the item for public comment; the following residents
addressed Town Council:
Larry Meyers, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council voicing his
opposition to this project and inquiring if there were any other uses considered
for this property.
Crystal Cavanaugh, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council voicing her
opposition to this project suggesting more outreach from the Town’s Economic
Development department to find other uses for this property.
Ed Stizza, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council voicing his concerns
regarding the aesthetics of the recent developments in the Town.
Janet “Faith” Fayleen, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council inquiring if
ADA requirements were reviewed for this project.
Clerk’s Note: during the public comment portion for this item,
Councilmember Magazine stepped away from the Dias from 6:42 p.m. to
6:45 p.m.
MOVED BY Councilmember Alan Magazine to postpone approval of Resolution
2022-38 for a Special Use Permit to September 20, 2022, Town Council Meeting,
SECONDED BY Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel.
Vote: 7 – 0 Passed – unanimously
Councilmember Grzybowski Aye
Councilmember Magazine Aye
Councilmember McMahon Aye
Councilmember Scharnow Aye
Councilmember Spelich Aye
Vice Mayor Friedel Aye
Mayor Dickey Aye
C. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: A request to apply and take
receipt of grant funding from the Arizona Office of Tourism.
Amanda Jacobs, Director, Economic Development, presented the grant
opportunities from the Arizona Office of Tourism and answered council’s
questions.
Mayor Dickey opened the item for public comment; the following resident
addressed Town Council:
Ed Stizza, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council regarding the design
of the shade structure.
MOVED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski to approve Resolution 2022-38
as presented, SECONDED BY Councilmember Mike Scharnow.
Vote: 7 – 0 Passed – unanimously
Councilmember Grzybowski Aye
Councilmember Magazine Aye
Councilmember McMahon Aye
Councilmember Scharnow Aye
Councilmember Spelich Aye
Vice Mayor Friedel Aye
Mayor Dickey Aye
D. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of Shade ‘n Net Contract
2022.091.1 Amendment for park shade installation and repairs.
MOVED BY Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel to approve Resolution 2022-38 as
presented, SECONDED BY Councilmember Peggy McMahon.
Vote: 7 – 0 Passed – unanimously
Councilmember Grzybowski Aye
Councilmember Magazine Aye
Councilmember McMahon Aye
Councilmember Scharnow Aye
Councilmember Spelich Aye
Vice Mayor Friedel Aye
Mayor Dickey Aye
9. COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION to the TOWN MANAGER
Item(s) listed below are related only to the propriety of (i) placing such item(s) on a future agenda for action, or (ii)
directing staff to conduct further research and report back to the Council.
Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel asked that staff look into the water-related issues at the
Fountain Hills Community Center that he observed. Grady Miller, Town Manager,
indicated that staff is currently working on this issue and will be presenting on this topic
at a council meeting in September.
10. ADJOURNMENT
MOVED BY Councilmember David Spelich to adjourn, SECONDED BY Councilmember
Sharron Grzybowski.
Vote: 7 – 0 Passed – Unanimously
The Special Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on August 22, 2022,
adjourned at 7:33 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
_________________________
Ginny Dickey, Mayor
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
__________________________
Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of
the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council
Chambers on the 22nd day of August 2022. I further certify that the meeting was duly
called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 22nd Day of August 2022.
_____________________________
Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk
Post-Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
August 22, 2022 Town Council Meeting
Special Meeting
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
* * * * *
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a
totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
* * * * *
MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome. Please stand for the pledge and
remain standing.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic, for
which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, for liberty and justice for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Please stand for a moment of silence. Thank you very much.
Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Thank you, Mayor. Mayor Dickey.
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
MENDENHALL: Vice-Mayor Friedel.
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon.
MCMAHON: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Scharnow.
SCHARNOW: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Magazine.
MAGAZINE: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Spelich.
SPELICH: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Grzybowski.
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Welcome back after the summer. Good to see you. We, as
always, start with our reports from town manager and mayor. Grady?
MILLER: Thank you, Mayor. So we do have an item on the agenda, actually, pertaining to
small cell wireless and 5G, and our attorney - we had heard from residents Lori Troller at a
previous meeting back in both May and June. And our attorney, I asked him to look into this
because there were concerns about if the town could in fact prohibit 5G and small cell wireless
from coming into town. So I'm going to turn it over to our town attorney, who actually did the
report that's actually in the staff - excuse me, in the council packet. And he's going to want to
give you a little bit of an update on this topic.
ARNSON: Sure, Mayor and council. I'll keep this update rather brief. But we did evaluate
some of the requests and concerns from these residents, and as we've discussed and provided, in
fact, a copy of that memorandum to the residents, I mean, there is no ability for us to prohibit 5G
and the deployment of 5G within town. Indeed, it's not just us that are preempted from doing
that. It's all municipalities nationally that are prohibited from doing that. That said, the residents
provided a few ideas that we may be able to work around the edges with providing some more
limited regulation around aesthetics and safety. And so we actually do have a meeting
scheduled, I believe, for a couple Tuesdays -
MILLER: September 6th.
ARNSON: - September 6th with Ms. Troller and those residents to address some of those
concerns and see if we can't clean up our ordinance a little bit to get there. So we're hopeful that
we'll be able to do a little bit to be able to resolve those issues to the extent that we're able. And
we just unfortunately are limited in what we can do. That's all I have at this time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any questions about that? No? Grady, do you have any other
report?
MILLER: I do not. Thank you, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Yes, Peggy.
MCMAHON: Good evening. I hope everybody had a good summer. I did. I went to Tanzania
on safari. It was awesome. But also the last couple of weeks, I've been joining Amanda Jacobs,
our finance director, and meeting with a couple of the business owners in town. And it's been
very, very productive. It's nice for them to see that we're all alive here in town and we're
available, and dispel some myths that the town is not business-friendly. So it's good to get the
message out that we are business-friendly and that we're here for them. So that's been really
good. We have also been - have Dementia Friendly meetings that have been going on, and we're
looking at becoming a certified Dementia Friendly town, which will be really, really good for the
town and for our citizens, as well as we're doing some work on the biophilic and moving forward
with that. And then later on in next week a couple of us are going to be attending the bowling
league. No, the Arizona Cities and Towns League Conference. So I'm looking forward to that.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Go ahead.
FRIEDEL: Thanks, Mayor. Welcome back, everyone. I, too, attended the joint sessions with
the Chamber of Commerce, and I have to tell you we learned a lot from the four businesses that I
did visit. And we actually contacted the town about ironing out some rough patches we had
between the town and the Sanitary District for a couple of our restaurants in town. So it's really
a well worthwhile attempt by the town and Amanda and the economic development area of the
town to get out, visit our businesses, find out what's going on, how we can help them. And as
Councilwoman McMahon said, we are business-friendly and we are open for business. So I
think that will go a long way toward showing people that. I also had the privilege of attending
the Purple Heart Memorial Day here in town and giving the opening remarks and welcoming
everybody to that. And Mayor, I have to present to you a certificate from that day, a certificate
of appreciation for all your work in helping the town become a Purple Heart Community. So I'll
pass this down to you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
FRIEDEL: And then one last item on my list. I'm wondering if anybody in this room has been
flocked. Yes. Okay. So somebody does know what that means. So we fully support our high
school in town and the PTO. If you're interested in being part of that support, contact the PTO,
and they'll come out they'll flock you. What they'll do is they'll put a sign up saying you support,
and they do a little canon that goes off. So we had our first football game last Friday night, and
although we didn't win, we were close. But we have a good team this year, so get out there and
support them on Friday nights now. They won't be here for the next couple weeks, but that next
home game it'd be important to get a good crowd out there. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Nice. Mike.
SCHARNOW: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I think the only think I wanted to add is with the
Drug Prevention Coalition, we've been keeping active during the summer and gearing up for the
new school year, which Gerry has mentioned did start. So we have several things lined up this
coming semester, and those efforts will continue.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
MAGAZINE: Cynthia and I had a wonderful vacation. We rented a house in Flagstaff to get out
of the heat, and it was almost as hot up there as it is here. And we came back a week and a half
early.
MAYOR DICKEY: Wow.
[LAUGHTER]
MAGAZINE: It's only money.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I tried to avoid politics at all cost, so I didn't do many
political things. I did attend the Purple Heart ceremony. I was really surprised and in awe of --
there was two full rows of Purple Heart recipients that were all Fountain Hills residents, and
many of them also have silver and bronze stars. So we were definitely --the councilmen and I
were definitely in the - or the Vice Mayor and I were definitely in the room full of true American
heroes. So also on top of the Mayor getting a nice honor, Justin Weldy got an honor from Phil
Yin. And for those of you that don't know, Justin came up with an emblem that is going - or that
is now currently being displayed on parking spaces for Purple Heart veterans. And they liked it
so much that they nationally adopted his design. So it will be across the country that any town
that's a Purple Heart town will have Justin's design in their parking spaces. So that's quite an
honor. And so they were very thankful. And like I said, I was in awe of all the heroes that were
in that room. Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. Obviously, I didn't do anything near as exciting as these folks over the
summer, but I do feel like it's first day back at school and we're doing our what we did over the
summer project. I attended, virtually, two National League of Cities meetings. One of them was
the State of the Cities and the other was First Tier Suburbs Council, which sounds way more
complicated than it actually was. We got to hear from an organization that - I actually sent this
to Grady and Rachael, I think - that they have open source ways to help you kind of try things in
town before you do something permanent. And we're talking more along the lines of parks kind
of stuff. So don't get too excited in your little - on your streets. There's one particular town in
Mesa that they used orange cones to block off to see how welcoming the bike lane access would
be, that kind of stuff. So it's temporary ways before you spend hardcore money to get a project
done. Like I said, it's open source. So if there's a picnic table that needs to be built or pergolas
that need to go up, they can help you with that kind of thing. It was very interesting. And
hopefully it's something we can do with our next project. That's all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. Appreciate you going. Appreciate everybody, what you
were doing. I didn't have anything to do this summer. But no, just kidding. I actually was
happy to have the greeting on the Independence Day festivities. I met virtually with the Mayor
of Pietrasanta, Italy, Alberto Giovannetti, to talk about our potential sister city partnership. I also
met in person with the former Mayor of Killarney, Sean Caunihan, who is the chair of their
Town Twinning Association, which is like the sister cities. He gave us this tour of Killarney,
and there are a lot of similarities, believe it or not, which I think that municipalities face.
Two MAG meetings. One was a joint meeting with the Transportation Policy Committee, trying
to make sense of the owners' veto of the Prop 400 extension that had passed the legislature with
bipartisan support and with unanimous support from the Regional Transportation Council and
from regional council. So I'm sure Jack will be bringing that up in his report. We'll be meeting
again this Wednesday, and there'll be an update on the regional homelessness efforts, which is a -
which is a homelessness prevention effort that we are joining in our capacity as a town of our
size.
So Grady and I met with Honorable Consul Glenn Williamson, who is - who started the
Canadian Arizona Business Council, which is kind of like GPEC, but we've been having a lot of
activity with them. Also, he is on the board of EPCOR, and I wanted to mention that we'll be
hearing from EPCOR and talking about water issues at our September 20th meeting.
And then, last - it was a long time ago, but we had Liz's (ph.) retirement party. And again, we
welcome Linda here as our clerk. That's it for that.
Our next item, of course, is our appearance. We already did the report on the 5G, so now we're
going to do an appearance by Jack Lunsford, who's going to talk about the legislative session,
what happened and what's coming. And welcome to you, Jack.
LUNSFORD: Thank you, Mayor and council and Manager Miller too. It's good to see you all
back here. I still need - this almost looks like a new one. Is it? Am I looking at the right one
here?
POCK: Here.
LUNSFORD: Aha. I need an expert here.
POCK: I saw it here earlier.
LUNSFORD: Yeah, okay. All right. It's over there. Okay. My fault.
POCK: Oh, wait. That's not it.
LUNSFORD: No, that's not me. Nope, that's not me either. Is that me, the PowerPoint?
POCK: Yeah, those are the two that -
LUNSFORD: There you go. Right there. There we go. All right. Excellent. Thank you.
Because somehow these -- you know, wherever you go, it's like a different setup every time. I
have had the chance to be involved in -
POCK: Excuse me, Jack. I think if you just do the down button on the keyboard, it will do it.
LUNSFORD: Yeah, that's what I think I'm going to have to do. That one wasn't - there we go.
So very quickly I want to give you a legislative session update. And this has to do with
something that is tied for the sixth largest legislative session in state history. And I don't know
what it says about me, but I've been here for at least 12 of the longest. There were 1,747 bills
introduced. 388 of those were signed into law. The Governor vetoed four of them, one which is
critical significance to all of us interested in transportation. Legislature adjourned sine die. So
the effective date of legislation is September 24th, unless otherwise specified in the bill. So that
could be with an emergency clause, meaning it's effective upon the Governor's signature, or it
could have a delayed effective date.
I want to remind you quickly - and I will do this fairly often so it's in your mind and my mind,
you know, what are our priorities and our principles and so on. And you all know these probably
in your sleep in terms of what the strategic priorities of the town are. They are guiding principles
for me as to what I do when I'm not visiting with you one-on-one. I won't recite them because
you know them, but I just want you to know that I pay attention to those. Two core legislative
principles that were adopted by the council were to preserve local funding and, in so doing,
protect state shared revenues and to do everything we can to oppose preemption of local
authority. Legislature likes to preempt local authority from municipal government. And so one
of my key jobs is to work both with the League and other coalition folks and other municipalities
to protect our local authority.
The League had four resolutions this past year, not in any order: regulate fireworks, the
permissibility of those; solutions on affordable housing and homeless; allowing cities to amend
their budgets after the initial adoption; and dissolving water and wastewater districts, if it's called
for. The other thing we had, and I won't dwell on the first one initially, but support the extension
of the half-cent sales tax. And then protect the continued liability of the highway user revenue
fund for cities and towns. And we did the second one, and we worked really hard on the first
one. And I'll allude to that in a second.
Just to recap the League -- and you all have received in your packets the new laws report, but the
League did either track or work 550-plus bills. I was in touch with them on many, many of
those, and supported the town wherever - or excuse me, the League, wherever possible. And I
have two municipal clients. So that makes it easy for me to do in terms of supporting the
League. I actively worked on behalf of the Town of Fountain Hills more than 30 bills. And I'm
proud to say that I was a key negotiator and lobbyist on both the Prop 400 extension and the
short-term rentals group.
So in terms of the Prop 400 extension, as we all know, the Governor did veto that. I will tell you
that I've had conversations in the interim with legislators, including Representative Carroll, who
was the prime sponsor in the House. The next day he said his phone was blowing up. He had no
idea that the Governor was going to veto the bill. That's pretty much across the board. And I
don't know if that was a missed opportunity with strategy with all of us that were working on it.
Did we take the Governor for granted? I can't say that we did. I believe that members of our
lobbyist contingency had conversation with him.
And let me digress for one second. There's the MAG Intergovs, which as a contract Intergov for
the Town of Fountain Hills, I'm not allowed to participate with them directly. The Mayor and
others have allowed me to be involved in the Monday morning - excuse me - meetings. But then
there was a very comprehensive lobbyist group with business ties and et cetera that I was a part
of too. We actively also worked this. There were things, Mayor - I did attend the joint session,
although I was in the Atlanta airport and I was listening as I was walking and driving and so on.
I appreciated all the comments from the mayors and so on. I believe that there probably should
have been an executive session to discuss that because there were a lot of things that either could
not have been said or people weren't privy to know of that some of us on the outside have.
So what's going on next? There are not only what the mayor has indicated for the meeting next
week. There are other activities, myself included. I've had multiple meetings already with key
legislators to find out what they anticipate for the coming session, and I'll be sharing that with
you.
We were all concerned about by right zoning, and because of the massive pressure that was put
on the legislature by the league and the individual municipalities, that did not pass. What
happened instead was there was an amendment to create a Housing Supply Study Committee.
I've already attended two of those meetings. There's another one tomorrow. They'll be meeting
probably all the way up until the holidays at the end of the year, and I'm not sure they know
where they're going. Because of the - and I don't have time to dwell on it, but the types of
presentations that they're receiving. I have a couple of ideas of my own from when I was on
Mayor Stanton's staff. And I'll probably be working with the chair on them to see if we can help
at least the homeless side for the housing issue.
Short-term rentals, it was probably the second or third - it's in the top ten most amended bills that
were worked among the negotiators that I've been involved with in almost 40 years. There was
more wordsmithing than you can imagine. There was agreement, disagreement. There were
holdouts, et cetera. But at the end of the day, we came forward with a bill that wasn't what
everybody wanted, but it was a great step forward for municipal government in terms of their
ability to permit and to regulate short-term rentals. Will there be something coming forward
again? I do believe so. Although, I've seen recently that one particular short-term rental
company has already announced actively in the last week the activities that they're going to do
for preventing party houses and things. I will tell you that the cynic in me is - that that's a
preemptive strike. But at least they're going to do it. Lastly on this one, we prevailed in
protecting both the preemption issue as well as our own revenues. Boy, I lost the word. We
prevailed in helping that bill to prohibit municipalities from levying residential lease taxes, and it
failed. And that's a positive thing.
Fireworks, you already know about that one, but I will tell you that I had an amendment after it
was approaching passage in the House, and the amendment was to put teeth into the bill. Right
now, it essentially says you can't do this on Fourth of July and Christmas and New Year's. You
can only have the fireworks in more hours than is currently allowed by law. It's like you telling
your children you can't do this. I can't see a law enforcement officer showing up on a complaint
and so on. And so I'm looking at - and I'll meet with a sponsor to see if he's open to having some
teeth in it, which would allow for fines and so on. And we haven't worked out how the
distribution of those fines are, but that'll be important. So we're working on that.
The condominium termination wasn't a lead issue for the Town of Fountain Hills itself, but it
was certainly significant for Rio Verde and some other communities across the state.
Representative Weninger did his best to require a 100 percent vote before you could terminate
one. And as things happen, there was a compromise. They reverted back to 80 percent for
existing condominiums. Going forward, it's 95 percent, and any new condominium project has
to be at 95 percent. So I don't know if anything will come back because Mr. Weninger has left
the legislature and he was the prime sponsor.
MAGAZINE: Mayor, Jack, I'm sorry. I didn't follow that one. What is that bill? What would it
do?
LUNSFORD: So Mayor and Councilmember Magazine, right now a company can come in and
buy a percentage of the shares or the ownership of the condominiums and force the others to sell
or to terminate. And they would terminate the condominium situation. Again, Representative
Weninger attempted to make that 100 percent so that no institutional investor or anybody else
could come in and make those modifications, and he wasn't able to get that through. But
prospectively, it will.
MAGAZINE: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: In fact, it did affect us, Jack. This came to my attention from it happening
at the Four Peaks condos. And that exactly was happening. And I think the origin of this is
probably more expecting individual homeowners - 80 percent of individual homeowners would
agree that they wanted to terminate the condominium. But what happened is that corporations
were buying them and then getting that majority -
LUNSFORD: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: - and then forcing the 20 percent to leave. So the 90 percent was a great
victory, but again, it's prospective. So I think I even saw an ad for Four Peaks a couple days ago
having them be apartments. So I don't know how that's actually working out because I know that
they didn't have an HOA board, but I think they do now. So there may be some options there.
But it was definitely something that was going on here.
LUNSFORD: And Mayor, I apologize for not recalling that specific one.
So lastly and very quickly, there were several appropriations bills. One of them in particular is
the capital appropriations bill, and it included two and a half million dollars for Dark Sky
Discovery Center. Early on in the session, there was no anticipation for any additional funding
this year. That was expressed to me directly. What prompted it - and this is what happens in the
process - Senator Rogers wanted 19 and a half million dollars for Lowell Observatory. She
didn't get that much. She got five and a half million. But as a result, then Representative
Kavanagh stepped in and got the additional funds for Dark Sky Discovery Center.
And then in all of those, the legislature has 11 appropriations bills. I won't go into all of them,
but two of them are important to all of us. Anybody going down to Tucson? There's a $400
million widening project for one of the largest expanses of the I-10 down by the Gila River
Bridge and south. And the other one is, if you're going to LA, there is a $64 million widening of
the I-10 to the State Route 85, except there's a contingency on whether Prop 400 was extended or
not. So that could be problematic.
So what do we have for the coming year? You know, I've been doing this for 40 years. I always
say, hey, I don't know what's going to happen. Well, take a look. I don't have a crystal ball this
big. We're going to have a new governor. The senate will have 13 out of 30 - 43% will be new
members. Eight of those will have previous experience either having been in the legislature
before or moving over from the House. The House will have 35 of 60 new members, 58 percent,
and only four of those with previous experience. So that means there will be new leadership in
both chambers. I believe that in the Senate, there are two people who have been Speaker of the
House vying for the presidency. I think at least that will give some stability, hopefully, and
probably the majority leader in the House will step up a little bit.
Right now the margins are one-vote margins, which gave leverage in the budget this year and all
sorts of things. 16-14 for the republicans in the Senate, and 31-29 for the republicans in the
House. I can't predict what they're going to be. We could have the same. There could be, as you
see in my last bullet point - with voter turnout, is there a blue wave? Is there a red wave? Is
there no wave? It's just hard to predict. I look forward to coming back to you in November and
telling you what this looks like. And Mayor and council, I'll be happy to stand for any questions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Questions, anyone? Yes, Councilman.
MAGAZINE: First - and this is aimed at Grady, I guess, or staff - short-term rentals. I hope we
can look at our ordinance and look at the new legislation and see if there's anything we can do to
change our ordinance.
MILLER: You know, we're actually in the process of doing that. Aaron's actually on a work
group of other city attorneys that are working very much with the leg on a model ordinance
based on the bill that was referenced earlier that passed. We're also looking at incorporating
some of the provisions that were in the short-term rental ordinance that Paradise Valley had that
was able to withstand the scrutiny of the Attorney General when it was challenged under a 1487
challenge. So I think you'll be seeing something. This bill comes into effect around September
24th, was it?
LUNSFORD: Correct.
MILLER: So you'll probably be seeing something, I believe, Aaron, in October or so that will
incorporate these.
ARNSON: Yes, Mayor and council. I think the work group's - my work group's goal is to have
something by that time frame that every city and town could either adopt as is or make just minor
modifications so at least we can get some of that consistency too.
LUNSFORD: And Mr. Town Manager, if I may, I'll offer my assistance to the council any way I
can.
MAGAZINE: Council has heard me, more than once, rail against legislature in terms of
preemption. And in fact, I wrote an op-ed for the Fountain Hills Times about it. At times, I
think the legislature thinks they want to take over the town, or all towns. You mentioned that
there were 30 bills that impact the town. Are there any that passed that come to mind that would
seriously preempt our abilities to do anything?
LUNSFORD: Mayor and Councilmember Magazine, first of all, I mentioned that I had done 30.
There was probably more than that, and I was in concert with the League. Off the top of my
head - and maybe someone knows that there was a preemption -- I can't see one this year. I
thought we were really strong collectively. There may be one and I may have missed it. And if
so, I apologize and I'll find out.
MAGAZINE: Well, this is probably the first time in my eight years, and I'm happy to hear it.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). Aaron?
ARNSON: Yeah, thank you, Mayor. Mayor and council and Councilmember Magazine, this is
one of the better years for preemption, or lack of preemption, as far as I can see and recall. The
biggest one by far I think that we were concerned about was zoning by right. And the league
worked pretty swiftly and in concert with each other to get that - can't say defeated but, you
know, transformed into something that was a lot less adversely impactful. So we're pretty
satisfied, I think, on the whole, with how this legislative session turned out by way of lack of
preemption.
MAYOR DICKEY: That bill that turned into the study committee, and what you just said about
not sure where they're going, I'm really concerned with that bill. I think it's disguised as a
housing inventory solution somehow, but I think we need to be really wary of it. This by right
stuff, you know, it's interesting because we've had so many conversations about group homes,
and we talk about the small cell towers and short-term rentals. And as that bill was presented, if
something like that passed, those discussions would be moot. I mean, we had no, literally,
zoning real power in this town. So if you take the discussions that we had about the group
homes or the cell phones, the cell towers, and just look at that and put that into your - well, this
can't be single-family home anymore. This can't be single-family zoning or acre lots or
whatever. And I think we just have to be really careful because it could be looked at as it's trying
to solve this housing inventory issue. And I have a very cynical view of it right now, to tell you
the truth, because I think it's - the same by right stuff is going to come back. So we just have to
really watch out for that.
LUNSFORD: Mayor, if I may, first of all, my cynicism antennae are up, but also one of the
original sponsors of the bill, Representative Chavez, was defeated in the primary. So all of the
sudden, maybe there's one less advocate -
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
LUNSFORD: - in that particular instance. Second of all, the composition of that study
committee lends itself to people discussing homelessness to affordable housing and all things in
between. And I think this week - yeah, tomorrow, they're going to have Warren Tenney from
AMWUA in speaking about water issues as it relates. So it's a long way from soup yet.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I also want to mention that Mayor Bien-Willner from Paradise
Valley, Mayor of Sedona, Flagstaff, these other cities that were - Scottsdale - with us side by side
on the short-term rental and that - I think maybe more will be coming forth, but I look forward to
the combination of this bill that just passed and incorporating Paradise Valley's ordinances into
ours. I think that's going to be a very helpful thing in addition to Airbnb coming out and kind of
putting the hammer down on some stuff. The municipal rent tax, if that had gone through, it
would've cost, right - Fountain Hills would've been -
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 500,000.
MAYOR DICKEY: - $500,000 a year. And their kind of fix was it wasn't going to start for a
couple of years, but that's a lot for us. So hopefully we won't see anything like that coming back.
And last, just I think you all got the copy of the resolutions committee. So when we're at the
bowling league next week, I have to go to this meeting, which is where we discuss the agenda
that the League wants. And it seemed pretty innocuous. I have a couple issues with some of the
things, but just wanted to make sure, since the council had a chance to look at it, if anybody had
any objections or anything that you want to say before I go, because that'll be Tuesday. And
then we have - then the full League gets to vote on Thursday. So if you didn't have anything on
that, then we're good to go.
LUNSFORD: Mayor, I look forward to seeing you at the resolutions committee, and all of you
at the League meeting next week.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And thank you so much for beating back some of the stuff we
didn't want and getting through some of the stuff that is really going to help our community.
Thank you.
LUNSFORD: All right. Great. Thank you all.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Our next item is call to the public. Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Can you do -
MENDENHALL: The first one is -
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry. I always forget to say when you come up to -- please, you know,
not your address, but whether you live in Fountain Hills or not.
MENDENHALL: Correct. Lori Troller.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
TROLLER: Good evening, Mayor, council, town manager, attorney. I'm Lori Troller, resident.
Topic's 5G. Since everything that was said, all you guys were on vacation, and we had some
emails, the town manager and I, going back and forth in April, and I just wanted to say thank
you. Thank you for taking on - because this 5G thing, it's a big deal. There's so much
technicality to it. And just wanted to say thank you. I had some more comments, but we're
going to meet and we'll talk after, but this is awesome. I think this is great, and I know you're
kind of excited about this too. You have to be. I wanted to say thank you because our town
needs this. There's a lot we can do. So this is awesome. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Okay. We do have more, and it's April McCormack.
MCCORMICK: Hi. I should just say ditto, but I did want to personally thank you. I don't know
how it got on the agenda. Where I moved here from, it usually took the mayor or two council
people. I don't know how it happened. I just wanted to say thank you humbly. And thank you
to Aaron and Grady for their man hours thus far, and we look forward to meeting on September
6th. Thank you, thank you.
MENDENHALL: That's it for public comment. We do have other speakers for an item, though.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Great, thank you. Our next item is our consent agenda, unless anybody has
anything they'd like to remove. Can I get a motion?
MAGAZINE: Move approval.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All in favor, please say aye.
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you so much. We'll start our first regular agenda item, which is the
adoption of the primary election held on August 2nd, 2022. Grady?
MILLER: I'm going to go ahead and turn it over to our town clerk, who is going to just go ahead
and provide the council the canvas of the election results. And then you'll be able to go ahead
and take action on that.
MENDENHALL: We had a very good year with participation at 60 percent. So I'm very happy
and pleased with that. We do have - we are here to canvas and make this official. Our Mayor
has won the election for the mayoral race. We have three council members who are now elected,
and there's Allen Skillicorn, Brenda Kalivianakis, and Hannah Toth.
MAGAZINE: Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Go ahead, sir.
MAGAZINE: I just want to thank Linda. She really kept us up to speed on the vote count even
well into the evening. So she must've been in bed propped up with pillows and a cup of coffee.
But I just wanted to publicly thank her because that was very helpful.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Sorry. Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Not for this item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay, thank you. Sorry I didn't get to it here. There we go. So do we do
a - I'm sorry. I actually don't have it up yet. Resolution -
ARNSON: Mayor, I think it's page 145 is the suggested motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, I was looking at my paper instead of the -
FRIEDEL: You want me to do it, Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Anybody can please do the motion.
FRIEDEL: Move approval of Resolution 2022-38 declaring and adopting the results of the
Primary Election held on August 2nd, 2022.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye.
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? Thanks very much. And yes, thank you, Linda, very much
for all of your professional help. I think we needed professional help. Our next item is a special
use permit that we're going to be talking about on Ivory and El Pueblo. Grady?
MILLER: Yes, thank you. Our Development Services director is going to be providing the
council with the staff report on this. With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Wesley.
WESLEY: Give me just a second, here. Get this one out and this one up. There we go. Okay.
Good evening, Mayor and council. As stated, this is request for a special use permit for
residential use in a commercial zone at 15006 North Ivory. When we establish a zoning
ordinance, we list uses permitted in a different zoning district. As we do so, we know there's
some uses that may fit sometimes and may not fit in other cases. And so that's why we have this
special use permit process, so we can consider those uses and specific situations and determine if
they're appropriate and if there may or may not be any conditions that should go along with that.
So that's what we're doing here this evening.
The zoning ordinance specifically allows for commercial in residential districts, but only
through approval through the special use permit.
So the property that we have here at the north end of town, Fountain Hills Boulevard and El
Pueblo, that's plat 106. It is zoned CC common commercial, and again, the request is for the
special use permit. The lot that that development that's being requested is in a very southeast
corner there at El Pueblo and Ivory. It's about an 8,000 square foot lot. I mentioned in the staff
report that the area was in need of some improvement, that the paving wasn't in the best shape
and overgrown a little bit. We knew through our discussions with the applicant and the overall
HOA that they were working on some improvements, and they've done those. So I wanted to
update that from what was in my report. They did that about the same time I finished my report
and learned about it just after. So here's some images of the site today. And you see the parking
lot is freshly sealed, coated, and striped, and a lot of the landscaping's been cleaned up.
So with this request, again, we're looking at that southeast corner of the property, or the
northwest corner of El Pueblo and Ivory Drive, again about an 8,000 square foot lot. The
applicant in this case is proposing ground floor commercial office, basically, uses. One office
would be for the applicant, and the other would be a lease space, and then some indoor parking
areas and storage space. The amount of commercial space and number of units being requested
at 5 results in a need for a total of 20 parking spaces. And so on site - let's see if I've got the right
button. Where's this going? Have I got the red dot any place that you can see? I guess not. The
parking is on the back side of the building inside the building, and then the commercial spaces
front the street, but it results in a need for 20 stalls total with 6 of those being inside. And then
the 14 outside will provide that 20 spaces that's needed. Here's a little closer look, then, at the
site plan for the two floors. Again, that ground floor, offices and parking. Upper floor shows
five residential units. And again, at this point in the process, this is a conceptual site plan. The
applicant, if this gets approved, would then take this to the next level of a full site plan review
through staff and provide more of the details that we're not seeing here. But this is - we hope it's
sufficient for the council to be able to make a decision on whether or not the special use permit
should be approved and the max number of uses that would go with that.
So as we look at this, first, we took a look at the general plan and how this fit in with the general
plan designation for the area. General plan calls for variety of housing types in the city and
around various parts of the town, establishes various character areas. The specific character area
in this location is what we termed a mixed neighborhood, which has a variety of smaller lots, a
variety of densities with some non-residential uses mixed in. And so continuing that type of
development on this particular corner seems to be consistent with the general plan. Section 2.02
D.5 of the zoning ordinance lays out some of the criteria that should be considered by the
commission and the council with a special use permit, main things being that it's not detrimental
to the health, safety, and welfare, peace and comfort of persons, and not detrimental and
injurious to property improvements in the area or generally the town.
So as we look at that, we had a few questions, then, that we asked and had answered as part of
this review. Will allowing residential use be detrimental to the desired commercial activity?
This is zoned commercial, and so we'd like to see that commercial development happen if it
could. That would be a benefit to the town. As we look at this particular plat 106 area, there's
been no new building in this area since about 2004. In general, we feel that the commercial is
probably a little bit overbuilt. We've got a number of other commercial lots that are still vacant
here, and so there doesn't seem to be a strong need for a lot of commercial. Adding residential
units here could, then, add more population close to the existing businesses and help support
those existing businesses. New development on this lot could help overall clean it up and make
it interesting for other development to occur. And additional residents on this lot don't seem like
they would particularly impede or be detrimental to the surrounding residents in the area.
Will allowing residential use be detrimental to the surrounding residential neighborhood? This
zoning district allows for buildings of 25 feet in height. The commercial allows 30 adjacent to it.
Residential uses on a second floor versus non-residential uses on a second floor seem to be
equally impactful, or possibly less impactful as those non-residential uses would be. The
proposed unit sizes of these apartments are very similar to the unit sizes of the houses in the
neighborhood. So they're fairly similar there. We've had a little bit of a concern about the
conceptual architecture proposed. It seems a little modern and out of character for the
neighborhood. So we have noted that and talked to the applicant about it. In the site plan
review, we want to look at some modifications to the architecture to better fit the neighborhood.
Will residential use create a desirable living environment? So would residents living here find it
a desirable place to live and would it be sustainable as a residential development? It's right
adjacent to residential across the street. It's at the edge and transition from a residential to a
commercial area. So we feel like it would fit in that way. It's not completely surrounded by
parking. It's just on the two sides. It has direct access to shopping, schools, churches, parks, and
other things. So we do feel like it would be a viable location for a residential use. So we feel
like in all those cases it meets the criteria outlined in the special use permit for consideration and
approval.
One of the issues that's come with this particular location, as it has in a couple others where you
have the CC common commercial zoning district, the unique district that establishes a common
parking field. You can see that in the middle here, and then the individual lots can be built out
entirely and don't have to provide any parking on their own site, which is a nice way to develop.
Gives you that a little bit more urban form, compact type development. But the challenge we're
having coming back so many years later with these is the amount of development that
theoretically can occur on each lot really exceeds the amount of parking that's available in the
parking lot. So somehow we have to allocate, then, how much development occurs on a given
lot to make sure that the other lots that haven't been built yet still have some room. So as we
look at this particular location and the proposal for this development and the parking
requirement - excuse me - the combination of the interior parking that's being provided and the
required immediately adjacent parking spaces, they meet the requirements for the development
that's being proposed. And we feel like that's pretty reasonable for this overall development and
does not negatively impact the ability of the other lots in the center to develop. It's an issue we'll
continue to refine as we work through that site plan process and engaging the property owners
association make sure they're comfortable too. So far we believe they are with this combination.
We want to make sure they feel like - and try to work with them to get a better handle, then, on
how parking in the future will be allocated to future lots in the site. Right now this looks like it
works pretty well.
One of the other things we considered is - we discussed this with the Planning and Zoning
Commission. The zoning ordinance as stated allows residential use in the commercial district
with approval of a special use permit, but it doesn't really tell us at what density or what
standard, what level it should be allowed. So that's kind of open. As we look at this site to try to
determine what might be appropriate, they're proposing five apartments, which look fairly
reasonable on the site and in the building being proposed. But we considered and compared it to
the multi-family zoning districts that we do have in town, and you see the list here from R-2 to
R-5, R-5 being our most dense. R5 allows one dwelling unit per 1,740 square feet of lot size.
And given this lot size, even at the R-5 density, only four dwelling units would be allowed. So if
we allow five, we're allowing something a little bit in excess of what the R-5 zoning district
would allow. Is that too much for this area, too much of an impact for the neighborhood? Either
the R-4 or 5 both end up at four units.
One of the requirements the council put in place back almost a year ago maybe - or when did we
do that, first of the year maybe - was the citizen participation plan process, where any time we
have a special use permit or rezoning, the applicants have to reach out to neighbors in advance of
coming to the P&Z Commission and engage them in the process, give them the opportunity to
provide some input. So this is our first case to have used that process. They did provide that
plan. They did mail notice to the property owners. They did not receive any direct comments
back. We did have one of the neighbors come in and talk to us as staff prior to the P&Z meeting.
We did have several that attended the P&Z hearing.
So the planning commission met on this twice, first at their May 19th meeting. There were
several issues and concerns that came up with regard to the density and the parking and some of
the restrictions that might be in the association. So that was continued, then, to their June
meeting. The issues were largely addressed and revisions were made to the site plan to reduce
the amount of commercial space, add that interior parking space. And so with that, staff and
planning commission have recommended approval. The commission has recommended four
dwelling units versus the five, based on those general density requirements, dedicated parking
for the building, and that that interior parking be designated for the tenants and property owner
so that they do have that interior parking. So with that, I'll see if you have any questions of me at
this time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilmember?
MCMAHON: Can you please tell me why the Planning and Zoning wants four versus five?
And if that becomes the case, is the builder still interested in building?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, it was a - it wasn't maybe a strong thing with the
commission, but as they looked at the parking and trying to balance out those parking needs and
that density comparison to the neighborhood, they were just a little concerned that five might be
too dense -
MCMAHON: Um-hum.
WESLEY: - compared to the R-2 densities that were adjacent.
MCMAHON: Um-hum.
WESLEY: And so they came down the side of the four, you know, that was more appropriate.
At the meeting, the applicant said he was willing to go to the four. I think he would still prefer
the five. It's more cost-effective, but he is here and will speak in a little bit if the council would
like to ask him directly.
MCMAHON: Okay. Also the parking, when you were explaining it - sorry, you guys - it was a
little bit confusing. So I just wanted to make sure, given this development, whether it be four or
five, that there is sufficient designated parking for the tenants, et cetera, and also for the
commercial, because this is in a - more of a residential area, and I think that would be an
infringement in that area if we didn't provide adequate parking --
WESLEY: Yes.
MCMAHON: -- especially for the tenants who are there who are going to rent.
WESLEY: Yes. So Mayor, Councilmember, so the drawings that you saw are based on the five
units, and so that required the 20. If we drop it by a unit, that will reduce it by two parking
spaces that would be required. So it provides even greater excess there. The tenants, with the
six parking spaces in the building, and if you have four units, certainly at least they each get at
least one interior parking space. And that's, again, by the stipulations that P&Z has
recommended they get first choice of those interior spaces.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
MAGAZINE: I'll wait. I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SPELICH: John, I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around this project. First and
foremost, I just don't understand how you can rent a place and it doesn't have a kitchen. These
are not going to have kitchens.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
SPELICH: No? Initially when we were first talked to, I believe that he said that there was not
going to be individual kitchens in all the units.
GURCZAK: No, it's all individual apartments.
SPELICH: Then something's changed from the first time we talked.
GURCZAK: No, it's always been like that. I think someone was thinking that we were going to
do the group home, but that's not true at all.
SPELICH: Okay. And then -
GURCZAK: Just because, you know, this is just conceptual. (Indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: Would you like to come up?
SPELICH: Okay. Well, on top of that and the parking concerns, I personally - and I'm not
speaking for any other council members. I personally do not believe that I have enough
information as far as drawing-wise, you know, the drawings and everything, to wrap my mind
around it to make a good vote. I think these are very basic. I mean, these are things that you can
do, you know, on a basic drawing, and I just don't - I can't conceptualize it. I just can't. I think
that I would want to see more. And once again, I'm speaking totally for myself. I want to see
more because if it was put to a vote tonight with just the information given, I would be a no,
because I just don't have enough to go on.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
FRIEDEL: I have some of the same concerns, but my biggest concern is that commercial area is
really designed to support that whole north side of town. We give away a SUP, what are we
saying there? That will never go back, and we'll never have another opportunity for commercial
in that area to support the growth on the north side of town. And at some point if the state trust
land gets sold, that's going to be very important, I think, to the town. We've got two others that
we've given SUPs to, on Saguaro and Kingstree and Saguaro and Monterey. And nothing has
happened on those yet as well. So once again, here we are changing our zoning for investments
that haven't panned out yet. So that concerns me. I agree with Councilman Spelich. I need
some more detail on these plans. That tenant storage down below, that's something new to me. I
don't understand that. Why wouldn't that be garages? And also I'm really concerned with what
Councilmen McMahon brought up, the parking. That proposed project, they have access to that
common parking in that area without any issues at all. You have confirmed that? You said you
thought it would be okay. I want to make sure that we don't have a parking issue with a project
going in there and that they're going to be infringing on parking in other areas and then the town
is going to be looked at. Those are my - those are my concerns.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: I think the confusion with the kitchen conversation - I listened to both
meetings today. This is my second time listening to the May whatever it was meeting, and my
first time for the June meeting. I think it was the May meeting, somebody called it a kitchenette,
and a concern over no kitchen or a kitchenette or something like that. Then it was made clear at
some point. So yes, it was a little confusing at the beginning, but I'm pretty sure it was at the end
of the conversation in May - maybe it was June, but it was made perfectly clear that there is a
kitchen. So we're good there.
As for the storage question, I got to tell you, I think it's a brilliant idea because there's very little
storage in condos or apartments kind of thing. So condos and apartments now are going to
storage facilities down in the parking area. Scott and I were just in San Diego looking at condos
for a secondary residence, and I was surprised how many didn't have this little extra storage
down here like this. So I'm actually glad to see it. Thanks for putting it in there because for
somebody like me that has way too much crap, you need that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
MAGAZINE: Apparently, there are some questions that some council members would like to
have answered, and I'm not going to make a motion, but I think it might be wise to postpone a
decision on this and let John get together with the developer and see if we can get some answers
to some of these questions.
SCHARNOW: Thank you, Mayor. While this is a conceptual site plan, you said it's coming
back at some point in time, right?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, typically it would just come back to staff. This is a formal
site plan review.
SCHARNOW: Okay. Uh-huh.
WESLEY: Although if council wanted it to come back here, you could stipulate it as such.
SCHARNOW: And we previously approved another project basically across the parking lot
where there was residential on that, correct?
WESLEY: Correct.
SCHARNOW: And there didn't seem to be any issues brought up at that time as far as parking
or future concerns. So I'm not quite sure why all of the sudden they're bringing up now. You
know, and as far as commercial space, I mean, that whole area is chopped up, small lots, been
there 50 years, and there's been so much turnover already in the existing commercial spaces. So
I just - you know, there's not opportunity there to combine large lots and create some synergy for
a commercial project to serve north Fountain Hills. I mean, it's just been sketchy, you know, as
far as what's happened there commercially the last 50 years. So to me, adding some residential,
you know, we've been doing that all over town. So I'm not quite sure why all of the sudden this
one's different. And, you know - so I support P&Z. They took it down from five to four. So,
you know, they were concerned. And so to me, this seems to be a trend that we've been
approving before. So I agree with P&Z.
WESLEY: Mayor, if I may address one comment that was made just in terms of the parking? If
this were just a ground floor, all commercial retail building, 8,000 square feet, it would require
32 parking spaces because it would all be out in that parking lot and that would be a very big
impact on that adjacent development, very hard for other lots in there to be developed. By doing
what's been proposed, we've now got a small portion of the ground floor in a commercial space,
and the residential on the second floor, which could all be a commercial space, too, and double
that parking if it were 16,000 square feet of commercial space. That would all be reviewed at a
staff level. We wouldn't be here at all. You'd really impact that parking on site. And so this
does help mitigate the parking by the design that's proposed. It'd become any worse if any of it
was restaurant space because that would raise it to even more.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. That's what I wanted to say, because you're saying it's this
shared use. Well, why don't they have just as much right to it as who we're protecting? I didn't
quite get that part of it. I mean, don't they have just as much right to use it as the fact of anybody
else who may potentially come?
WE: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Would you like to come up and make any presentation? Thank you.
And then we'll see if we have any speaker cards.
GURCZAK: Good evening. My name is John Gurczak. Fountain Hills resident and builder,
developer in Fountain Hills. So, you know, I think the project is, you know, really well suited
for that lot. You know, the R-4, R-5 zoning, you know, it's 2,000 square feet or 1,740 square
feet. But, you know, it's 8,000 square feet is the actual lot. You know, in that calculation, you
could also argue that you could count the shared parking as part of that because any development
just on a regular lot would require that kind of parking and have to be larger. So the old office,
it's going to be something that's going to be personally occupied, the whole space, by us. And
then the rest are just going to be, you know, rental units that we're going to keep long term. And,
you know, the apartments, they're pretty similar to the ones that were just built on El Lago.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anybody have any questions?
FRIEDEL: I do.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL: How many other projects have you done in town?
GURCZAK: We have about six or seven under construction right now.
FRIEDEL: In this town right now?
GURCZAK: Yeah, I mean, couple in Firerock, you know. We have a couple in Eagles Nest and
all around town too. We do -
FRIEDEL: Are those -
GURCZAK: - primarily specs and some built to suits.
FRIEDEL: Okay. So are those primarily residential or -
GURCZAK: Yeah. Yeah, like high-end custom houses, typically.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any other questions? Do we have any speaker cards on this
item?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. The first is Larry Meyers.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, sir.
MEYERS: Mayor, council, thanks for the opportunity to speak. I don't really have a position on
this, but I do have some concerns about the process because the process predates probably most
of you on this council. And I don't know that it's particularly good. I tend to agree with
Councilman Magazine already in that there's less - don't be surprised now.
[LAUGHTER]
MAGAZINE: I'm very surprised.
MEYERS: There's generally not enough information to make a decision of this magnitude. And
the magnitude I speak of is in that little handout I gave you, because there's emails that basically
talk about buying up other parcels within this zone. Now, this is a CC zone, and what's
uncovered in the handout, the most distressing is that town management actually coaches the
developers, and this isn't the first or will be the last, on how to circumvent our ordinances rather
than how to comply with them. So that bothers me. I don't know that this particular project
benefits the residents, which is what CC's supposed to do, the surrounding residents. But it does
show the precedent that's always used. Well, you did it at Kingstree, so let me do it too. And
then if you look at all the other parcels that are mentioned in that one email, pretty soon, most of
the CC land tract is gone. You add that to Wilson Ejam (ph.), who's also been to the POA out
there, who wants his SUP as well, and you have virtually no commercial zone on that tract of
land whatsoever at the end of all of this, all done through precedent. You gave me an SUP; you
gave him and SUP; you'll give me an SUP. I find that to be disturbing, and it's not the first time.
It won't be the last time.
But I go back to - and I disagree with Councilman Scharnow. I don't care what's going on on
that tract now. That tract has history, and the McCulloch Oil company, the master planners of
this community, said someday that will serve this community. Someday might not be 50 years,
someday might be 70 years, someday might be 100 years, but they had an intent. And I don't
think we should throw that land away and throw that intent away, because when you do that,
once the land has gone to apartments, you can't get it back. What if we settled for C-2 nursing
home at Saguaro and Trevino? We wouldn't have a C-1, as intended, medical center. What if
we blew the top off the mountain at daybreak? We would've lost the future opportunity for a
resort. What if we'd held out for what is actually an entertainment and overlay district
somewhere in the future and not had Park Place on the land? What if someday this tract serves
the end of town, develops state trust land, or maybe even Rio Verde? So I'd ask you all to take a
step back, consider the long view, like the Chinese do, hundreds of years, a hundred years, not
immediate gratification. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: We actually received another one. So now we have two. Crystal
Cavanaugh
CAVANAUGH: Good evening. Fountain Hills resident. Larry may have touched on a lot of
things I too had concerns with. And I'm not against development, obviously, but sometimes it
seems like we're always being reactionary versus maybe recruiting the types of projects we need
and that would be a benefit for the community. And then we wouldn't find ourselves always
with these special use zoning change requests. In my opinion, if someone wants to build a
certain project, such as these so-called luxury apartments - and these were called luxury when I
first heard it in Planning and Zoning - it's logical that they should be required to bring all the
completed plans for the project in their entirety before the permits are provided. It's like we're
trying to provide permits for something that's so vague and conceptual that we don't even see
kitchens in there. And when I was at those past meetings, it was a concern that there weren't
kitchens. And Councilwoman was trying to clear that up, and then talked about kitchenettes, but
there was no kitchen or covered parking at one of the meetings I was at.
And when I requested the correspondence between the town and this developer Realtor through a
FOIA, it seemed that Development Services was indeed trying to coach them, to use the right
verbiage, in order to help them achieve a special use permit. And this was with regards to the
future tenant space on the ground floor. So they were coached to say that might be future tenant
space for whatever reason. I don't know what they were planning. But is it John's job to assist
an applicant in getting this pushed through the town or is it the developer who should have to
demonstrate his vision and the town can then decide if a zoning change is warranted and if it's
beneficial to the town? Just like the multiple lots that were already purchased this last year by
Wilson Ejam, that was touched on by Larry, it's up near Sylvester's Wine Bistro. And when I
spoke to Mr. Ejam previously after this happened, he indicated that if there were zoning changes
approved by the town, he was planning to develop group homes. Point blank told me group
homes. So if this SUP for the luxury apartments is allowed, there's no way to deny the next
request for the SUP for the group homes, right? Or at least not without risk of a lawsuit. And
what really is the end result and vision for that end of town? Perhaps it should be saved as the
commercial zone it is for further commercial development. And now that we have a new
economic development director; perhaps she can start promoting this as an area to bring in
business from both ends, from Fountain Hills and Rio Verde. That's all. Those are just my
thoughts, and I just feel like there's not enough information to make any decisions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
MENDENHALL: Ed Sitza. Stizza? Okay, Ed Stizza.
STIZZA: Welcome back, everyone. Mayor, town council, staff, I hope things are well. I just
have a concern on the aesthetic. This is probably a great time to bring up an aesthetic ordinance,
which we do not have. So we can see what's happened over at some of the developments here.
Somehow or another, the black, white, and gray is becoming prevalent here on churches, on
these type of developments. And I don't know when it's going to stop. So I've also been
involved with a couple projects where designers are also going down that path. So at what point
are we going to stop the aesthetic of this? And I'm almost positive at the last meeting the
applicant had said that there was no way possible he's going to change the design. And John
Wesley just stated that he's going to work on the design. So how can you vote on something
that's not locked down? I still don't understand that. And much to what Larry and Crystal just
said, you know, with the SUP, we've seen they hand off the SUPs very easily, and then we make
the decisions. And I think that precedent needs to stop, and it needs to stop now. I don't know
how else to say that, but, you know, tell me how you're going to, you know, start to control some
of this look. We're losing the blend of the town, you know. So it's really starting - most of these
buildings are going way over to the left side, and it's just too - the designs should be a lot more
copacetic with what we have here. And it's just not happening. So I don't know what you guys
can do about that, and hopefully you can. But that's it. So thank you.
MENDENHALL: It looks like we have one more. Janet “Faith” Fayleen.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
FAYLEEN: Thank you, Mayor and council. I'm glad to be here. I'm glad to listen. Thank you
for all your work. The thing I wanted to bring up about this project is nothing has been
mentioned about handicap accessibility and whether or not it complies with ADA. So as long as
you are looking at things, that may be something to look at and talk about.
MAGAZINE: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilman?
MAGAZINE: Don't we have to consider that by law?
MAYOR DICKEY: John, do you want to maybe address that, please?
WESLEY: Let's go back to - I don't know if you can see it on this plan, but just on the west side
of the building in about the middle there, you'll see the stripes where the handicapped parking
space is. And so then you'll have the ramps, and yes, that has to be part of the building permits
to make sure they're handicap accessible.
MAYOR DICKEY: The residential part too? Just the commercial part?
WESLEY: I think just the commercial part with such a small one, but that gets into a segment of
the building code that I don't remember quite as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
WESLEY: But if it is required, then we certainly would have to do it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Any further questions or discussion? Councilman?
SCHARNOW: Thank you, Mayor. I just want to - excuse me - address a couple of the
comments. I mean, I know Mr. Myers is aware when McColluch developed this property
originally and zoned it and master planned it, it was designed for 70 to 75,000 people. And there
was commercial all over the place. And so this is what we have to deal with today. And a lot of
the design and development standards have changed the last 50 years. And so I think developers
are just trying to keep up with trends and trying to make their projects viable and trying to make
them fit in as best they can with our ordinances and such. So architecture is kind of like art, you
know. A lot of it is in the eye of the beholder. And if you drive around Firerock or a lot of the
other upscale residential areas in Fountain Hills, there is a mix of territorial, you know, Tuscany,
and modern. So there's just a variety of architecture out there. So I just don't see us passing
some kind of ordinance saying, oh, you have to have territorial architecture and that's it. I just
don't see that happening.
And, you know, as far as the - like I said, there have been a lot of zoning changes in the last 30
years plus, because what was originally master planned just wasn't viable, and it just wasn't
realistic in terms of how things are today. So I just don't see the trend that is being portrayed as
so evil as being detrimental to this town, because, you know, there was a small commercial area
at Golden Eagle and Marathon at one time, and the thought was, well, all those people living up
there need a little, you know, Circle K and whatnot, a little strip mall up there so they don't have
to drive all the way to downtown area. And so, you know, these development concepts just don't
hold up anymore. And the way Plateau A was put together with the parking behind, you know,
the buildings and stuff, that just isn't really done today. So, you know, we're trying to improve
things that were done 50 years ago and make projects viable. So I just - I think it's been
generally accepted, John, that we have an overabundance of commercial zoning here already.
And you know, there have been several proposals for the Target center and such, and, you know,
I just think that that's just the trend. And I, you know, just don't see that changing in terms of
making projects viable, because we want more residents here to make our businesses successful.
So, you know, he's provided the parking, you know, as part of his project. And so that helps.
And I just don't see these major obstacles that are being portrayed out there.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Alan?
MAGAZINE: Mayor, since there are some council members who have some questions that need
answering, I'm going to move to postpone a decision on this and let John Wesley get together
with the developer so they can come back with answers to some of the questions. That's a
motion.
FRIEDEL: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
FRIEDEL: Can I ask that you verify the parking situation with the –
GURZZAK: The POA?
FRIEDEL: Yeah, the POA.
GURCZAK: I thought that was verified already.
MAYOR DICKEY: That was a part of the June meeting, was the confirmation of that.
SCHARNOW: I'm just wondering. I don't know if it's an errant question or - I mean, can we
just postpone stuff, or do we need a date certain to bring it back, or - I mean, I think we need
some certainty here in terms of the timing.
ARNSON: So we can move to postpone, Mayor and Councilman. We can move to postpone
indefinitely, which it sounds like that's what Councilman Magazine just did. Or we can move to
continue to a date certain, which may be preferred. And I don't know if Director Wesley has any
input as to what that certain date might be.
MAGAZINE: I don't have any problem amending the motion to include a date certain if
somebody can suggest what that date is.
WESLEY: So I'm sure the applicant would rather do it in two weeks, but generally if we're
going to do something substantive and be able to prepare something back at council, it probably
ought to be at least a month. And so the second meeting in September would probably be the
earliest date it should be.
MAGAZINE: I'll amend my motion to include that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Two weeks?
MAGAZINE: Second meeting in September.
MAYOR DICKEY: So second meeting. Grady, you have something to say?
MILLER: I was just going to suggest the 20th because actually, technically, our staff reports for
the 6th are due tomorrow. So this gives Mr. Wesley enough time to work with that.
MAGAZINE: I'm not changing my motion.
MCMAHON: Although I have a comment.
MAGAZINE: I'll amend it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman.
MCMAHON: This is just - this is just the concept plan, right?
WESLEY: Yes.
MCMAHON: I mean, it has to be a lot more detailed by the end of the day before you can
coerce them into doing their permits and applying through the town, correct?
WESLEY: Correct.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilwoman.
GRZYBOWSKI: What exactly are we asking of the developer? I feel like we're not being
specific enough to help the developer out as to what it is that the motion people are looking to
see to come back, because I feel comfortable actually having a conversation about the issue at
hand right now, not necessarily needing to postpone it.
MAYOR DICKEY: I agree with that. That was going to be my question. What more
information or what other sort of staff report do we need? These special use permits that we've
been giving to other projects are irrelevant to this, in my opinion. We have other builders who
asked to put residential on commercial mixed use, which has been on our books forever as a
goal. They're different developers, so they have different reasons why there's been delays or not
delays. I don't really know why. This is a separate project. Again, we have shortages in
inventory. We just talked about that. And this project does the two stories. That's the way it
could be. The way that whole lot - the way that whole area is right now is not going to be
conducive to serving - I mean, you could put a two-story whatever here that was just
commercial. So there's no master plan here that's part of that. I also want to mention, if it's
commercial, then detox center, if that ends up being something on our agenda, is going to be on
commercial. So if you're trying to avert something there and using this particular thing as a - I
don't want to say scapegoat, but sounds like it, then I don't agree with that. And so I'm prepared
to also not postpone this and go ahead with it. I don't want to have a hardship for someone just
because - I don't know specifically what we're really asking for. He wants to change it to partial
residential. He's got everything else in order. So this is really the only question. And I don't
understand why there's such an issue.
MAGAZINE: Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman.
MAGAZINE: I would like to hear from Councilmen Friedel and Spelich as to what their
concerns are and see if they can be resolved. If they can be resolved, I'll withdraw my motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilman?
SPELICH: So John, would you please go back to the other drawing where the applicant has the
layout? So that's five units. Planning and Zoning approved four. So are we saying it's four or
are we saying it's five?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember - excuse me - that would depend upon whether the council
supports the P&Z motion of four or if they want to go ahead and leave it at five, as requested by
the council. But what the P&Z would say is to a maximum of whichever number you decide
upon.
SPELICH: So correct me if I'm wrong. Am I looking at a plan that has five?
WESLEY: You are looking at a plan for five.
SPELICH: Do you have a drawing that conceptualizes four?
WESLEY: No.
SPELICH: Okay. That's number one. Number two, I am concerned about the parking, even
though they said that the parking is covered. I'm concerned about the parking. That parking lot
shares a new restaurant that just came into Fountain Hills. I shouldn't say a new restaurant. A
new owner and a new concept, a tie-in restaurant. I'm concerned about that. I'm concerned
about - could you please go back to the conceptual outside drawing? No, the elevation, sorry.
WESLEY: I don't know which way that is in here.
SPELICH: I don't know either. Are we 100 percent set on this is what it's going to look like?
WESLEY: No. That's been a comment all the way along, and the applicant knows that we are
going to look for architecture that better blends with the neighborhood when he makes his formal
submittal.
SPELICH: Okay. So would it be asking too much for him to submit to us, by September, what
it's really going to look like? Because here's why I'm a no vote. I don't like the way it looks. I
don't have a four-apartment diagram or whatever, conceptual drawing, of what it's going to look
like. So I don't have that, what that's going to look like. I definitely do not like the exterior look
of this. And for the life of me, I have no idea why - why are we in such a hurry to do this? What
is the big deal delaying this 30 days? What's going to change? If anything, in 30 days, lumber
prices and everything are starting to come down. I know that. I'm building a home. So it's not
going to hurt the applicant for us to have a real, legitimate look at what it's going to look like and
what - the residents should see what they're going to live next to if they live in that area. And
then secondly, I want to look at what the four thing is going to look like. I don't think it's asking
too much. I'm not putting anything else into this. And if Councilman Scharnow and the Mayor
think that, then they're wrong. I want to vote on what's in front of me, and what's in front of me
is not correct. So why would we vote on something that's not correct?
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: I feel like when these things come to us in this raw form, for lack of a better
word, part of it is brought to us this way because of the expenses behind doing the actual
drawings, what needs to be done. So I think that if we approve something and say stipulation is
four units, stipulation is whatever, the color scheme, whatever the stipulation is for the outside,
and generally speaking, these things wouldn't come back to us, but we can say, you're approved
if you bring it back and it meets these requirements: the four units and the dedicated parking
space and the designation of the parking inside the building for owner and tenants that the P&Z
folks said. I'm not in a hurry to approve it. I just don't know why we are asking him to go to an
additional expense for something he doesn't - he's not going to leave with a positive feeling today
when he leaves. So that's my actual question -
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: - which obviously nobody here approves of.
MAGAZINE: Well, it's kind of a tough one, but I got to say that I don't think the objections I've
heard really are unreasonable. We're talking about 30 days. It's not going to - it can't make that
much difference. And so I'm not going to withdraw my motion.
SPELICH: Call the question. Call the question.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry, but Member, you were asking about what the - did you have
something to say to respond to Councilman Magazine?
FRIEDEL: I'm going to - I'm going to address your question now. I agree with Councilman
Spelich. I don't think we have enough detail or it's not complete enough for my liking right now
too. So I support his request for 30 days.
GRZYBOWSKI: So we're looking for -
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
GRZYBOWSKI: Sorry. We're looking for the drawing of the upstairs, the confirmation of the
exterior. I know at the June meeting, he said he was going to do away with some of the windows
on the commercial section. I do know he was talking about that as well in the June meeting.
What else are we looking for for a delay?
FRIEDEL: And what you have up there right now, is that a garage door I see down at the
bottom?
WESLEY: Yes. That's what faces Ivory.
FRIEDEL: So there is garage space -
WESLEY: Yes.
FRIEDEL: - underneath?
WESLEY: Yes.
FRIEDEL: In addition to storage? Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All right. Okay, well, he called for the question. So I guess I should
stop this. All in favor of postponing until September 20th, say aye, please.
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? Thank you. We'll take it back up then. Thanks. All right.
Our next item is a request to apply and take receipt of grants from the AOT. Grady?
MILLER: Yes, Mayor and council, before you is an item for permission to apply for grants that
are being administered. They're ARPA grants that are being administered by the Arizona Office
of Tourism. Our economic development director, Amanda Jacobs, is going to give you a brief
report on this. I'll turn it over to Ms. Jacobs.
JACOBS: Good evening, Mayor, members of council. Typically with our grants, we place them
on consent, but because there are three grants wrapped into one and there are matching
requirements, we just wanted to be a little bit transparent on this subject, and also just good for
our residents to see what we're applying for. So as Mr. Miller mentioned, last year, Governor
Ducey designated Visit Arizona Initiative, so VAI - it's a mouthful. And so it's three different
grants in order to accelerate tourism recovery, generate job creation and economic development.
So there are three. I'll briefly go through. It's the marketing partnership and outdoor
revitalization.
All right. So marketing grant, last year we did apply and receive $10,000, which was designated
to our community center to do a video promotion, as well as to do an enhancement on our
experience website, which is the tourism arm. And this year we're requesting $230,000, and
there is a 20 percent match. Those matches can be in kind, cash, or through a third party. And
so what we're doing is we're working with our community relations, our community services
department, to really put together a robust marketing strategy this next year. Of the 230, we're
also planning to designate $55,000 towards event sponsorship. So there's different requirements
in order to apply, and some of that we're going to, hopefully, again, with your permission - and if
we do receive it, it will go to the International Dark Sky Association for the Dark Sky Festival to
again try to generate visitors to our wonderful community, and then also the two fine art festivals
are put on by the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce. That gets hundreds of thousands of
people. So again, how do we recover from those two years, where basically we were at a
standstill, there was no events, no people coming in? How can we continue to put ourselves on
the map?
Next, a partnership grant. This is for a new or expanded event. You heard me during my third
quarter report. We did receive partnership grants, $9,000 specifically through this program for
our music fest. We cannot do that again. Again, it needs to be new or expanded. And so again,
our team internally is looking to expand our Irish Fest to a two-day event. The request is
$56,000 and, again, a match of 20 percent, and really to increase visitation and overnight stays
and work hand in hand with our hotels. So we can't go quite specific to, for instance, March
17th, but going back to March 2019, that month, in bed tax and sales tax was nearly almost
$170,000. In 2020, it went down to over 70. And in '21, 56,000. So we really did get hit hard.
We're starting to see that recovery, but again, we have a built-in audience. Let's attract more
people and help, again, the tourism industry that was hit hard and support our hotels, our
shopping, and our dining.
And then last, but not least, outdoor revitalization. And so what this is seeking is for either
marketing, sustainability efforts, and/or infrastructure improvements to accelerate industry
recovery. And so what we're requesting - so momentarily ago I said we received some money
for our community center. What we're wanting to do is not just look at the community center
and the lovely activities, but to also start promoting a conference center, right? We've got new
ballrooms, meeting rooms. Those people expect to pay. And so we're wanting to bring some of
those event and meeting organizers again to town. Now, one thing through the pandemic is some
folks feel a bit safer being outdoors. And so we think - you know, we've talked about the
Centennial Pavilion, that that would be a nice extension to the community center and conference
center. And then also, it's nearby the planned Dark Sky Discovery Center, our library, that it just
makes sense. And the request here is a max of $250,000 - or excuse me, the request - and the
match is 20 percent. And so with that, Madam Mayor, council, I'll be happy to answer any
questions. And really, the request by staff tonight is for you to allow staff to apply and accept
monies if we do receive them. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Questions? Councilman.
MAGAZINE: Amanda, how do these - how does the shade structure relate to the one that was in
the CIP for outside the community center?
JACOBS: So what this - so this is our outdoor revitalization. So how it applies is tying into our
community center/conference center.
MAGAZINE: Okay.
JACOBS: So it would be an extension.
MAGAZINE: Is this the same thing with a different -
JACOBS: Oh, sorry.
MAGAZINE: Same thing with a different name?
MILLER: Yes, it is, absolutely.
JACOBS: Sorry.
MAGAZINE: You know, I kind of object, frankly, to sliding this in. We had a question as part
of the CIP, did we not?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes.
MAGAZINE: And now we're seeing it in this form? What am I missing here?
MILLER: So this is why it's on the regular - I think the very beginning comments that the
economic development director said is that typically these are on consent. We put this purposely
on the regular agenda so that we could get this out and have this discussion.
MAGAZINE: I just don't think this is right. I just don't think this is the right way to handle it.
We have number of comments about the shade structure previously. Every time it comes up, it
seems to have a different name. It's almost like trying to slide something in here that some of us
have opposed. And frankly, I resent the way this is being handled.
GRZYBOWSKI: I think we've known all along that they were going to apply for a grant for it.
That was part of the conversation at some point. I don't remember first time we talked about it or
fifth time we talked about it, but you're right, we've talked about at least five or six times. But I
know we discussed a grant because I remember for a number of grants, we've had the
conversation that if it's not in the budget or if the drawings aren't done, they won't even consider
us for whatever the grant is. So that's one of the reasons why I remember that this particular one,
a grant was discussed.
MAYOR DICKEY: And literally all of these items, particularly the three that we were having,
you know, discussions about, that's what we were told. We will bring them back. That's what
we're doing because we were only going to bring them back as they came up to be relevant. So
this one at this point is relevant, so we're bringing it back, and that's why we're going to vote on
it.
MAGAZINE: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
MAGAZINE: Would it be any less relevant if it came up as part of the CIP?
MAYOR DICKEY: So we approved the CIP as it stood with the understanding that as different
projects came forward, we would vote on them individually. That's what we're doing here.
MAGAZINE: Well, my understanding is different, and it may be wrong, but I thought we were
going to be looking at all the CIP projects and making decisions on them. Is that not correct?
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, let me - we will look at them as they come up. Otherwise, if we don't
go forward with them or they don't end up being something that we're going to move forward
with, we're not going to spend money of RFPs or such, then that's how we make the decisions on
all of our capital projects, when they come back to us to, you know, to take whatever that next
step is. So this next step - and we literally, about these three items, said if the grant - if we end
up with an ability to apply for a grant, that's when we'll talk about it. And that's what this is.
MAGAZINE: Well, and as I'm looking at it, it says marketing, sustainability efforts, and/or
infrastructure improvements. But the wording's a lot different from what we've dealt with in the
past.
MILLER: So let me just explain this. So they're trying to work with the language that's in the
actual grant application. So as you heard earlier, we've never referred to the community center
as a conference center. So the conference center - in order to get - for this particular aspect of
the grant, there needs to be some significant improvements. We just went through a big
remodeling project, so that wouldn't qualify. But we were thinking creatively that possibly this
pavilion - again, we know that it needed to be debated. And we know that that was going to
happen tonight. So there was no way that we were trying to slide this through. That's why this
was on the regular agenda. We also understood that the council could possibly have supported
this if they know that the lion's share of this is being paid through other sources, so if it's a grant
or other way of paying for thins. So that's what the staff did is they came up with a creative way.
If the council has a concern with this, they can approve what is before you tonight and you can
actually take that item off of this. So if you have a concern about the pavilion, you can certainly
go ahead and remove this from the motion when you go ahead and approve the submittal for the
other two. This is a total of three separate grants that we would be applying through the Arizona
Office of Tourism.
MAGAZINE: And what's the maximum amount we would have to pay?
MAYOR DICKEY: 115,000.
MILLER: The total that I've got for all three -
MAGAZINE: Okay.
MILLER: - because there's three grants, would be 107,000, but just for this particular one, it
would be 50,000, I believe.
MAYOR DICKEY: 20 percent.
MILLER: So for 50,000, we would be basically getting a $300,000 pavilion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Director.
JACOBS: And Madam Mayor, I did include it in my report but failed to mention it here, I have
to apply on behalf of the town by August 31st, which was an extension. Originally it was the
17th.
FRIEDEL: Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Friedel.
FRIEDEL: So Alan, I'm against it, as you know, but if we can get this done for 50 grand, I'm for
it.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think that - you just nailed it right there, on the head. So that's the
decision to make, whether you want to risk, or if you want to do the match. If you don't even
want to do the match, then we won't apply for it.
SPELICH: I, too, was opposed to this, and I concur with Alan. I think I even said at the meeting
it was probably the first time in four years him and I agreed on anything. But I think we kind of
gave - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we kind of gave the marching orders to Rachael that if
she could find money somewhere else, as long as it wasn't coming out of the CIP budget, to go
ahead and try to do it. So what I think is - I can understand you thinking we're getting back-
doored, but I think in this particular instance, I think that we kind of gave her the marching
orders, or at least I remember speaking about this and saying, if you can find the money that we
wouldn't be on the hook for the whole amount, I would be for it. So knowing that we're only
going to be - up to 50,000 would be our liability? - up to 50,000, she did what we requested. She
went out on her own and found the money - or with the hopes of finding the money. So
originally I was against it because it was all on us, but now that it's going to be a $50,000 hit, I
would approve it.
MAGAZINE: Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilman.
MAGAZINE: Originally - I may be wrong - I thought it was 350. Now I'm seeing 250. If we
can get it for $50,000, I will support it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Mayor, no, not for this item. 8(D)? Are you wanting to speak on this one or
8(D)?
STIZZA: This one.
MENDENHALL: Oh, it's for this one. Okay. We do.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
MENDENHAL: Ed Sitzza? Sitzza?
STIZZA: It's okay.
MENDENHALL: I'll get it.
MILLER: Mayor, while Ed's coming up, may I make just one quick comment? If we receive
the grant, we'll let you know, and we'll be bringing any kind of award of contract back to this
council. So you'll be fully aware as to what the cost would be. So there's more steps than this
tonight.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Ed?
STIZZA: Thank you. So thank you, Grady, for explaining why this is being done. There are
certain people in this audience here tonight - and this is probably part of the problem,
transparency. This typifies it perfectly. So as far as bringing this out right now, the public had
no idea of this. We're only here because we thought it could possibly be for - I'd love to have
that picture back up there because I'm going to talk about the design of it, okay. And so anyway,
thank you very much for explaining that because that makes total sense in timeline, amount of
money. And it sounds like the grant only gets 50,000 towards the 250; am I not understanding
that? You're saying it's going to get bought or built for 50, but that's not true.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: No.
STIZZA: Okay. That's what it sounded like back there. I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Our match would be 50 if it's - would be 20 percent of whatever it ends up
being.
STIZZA: Okay. So the total outlay to the town is -
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 50.
STIZZA: All right. So let me talk about this design. I've had a problem with the circus tent
since I've seen it. The Centennial Circle is an open space. No offense to Rachael or anybody
else in Parks and Rec, but part of the beauty of Fountain Hills is open space. We are
continuously condensing that right now. Putting that structure over the Centennial Circle - are
you going to move the statue? What's the plan there? Where are you going to put that beautiful
statue that's in the Centennial Circle that represents the Centennial Circle? So there are some
designs that I have that are circular in motion that will much better represent that area, still do the
same thing, without it looking like a circus tent. So that thing is - you cannot tell me that
aesthetically that's going to look good. It's just not. We got to stop. I mean, you guys, come on.
So the observatory's not even built yet. Once the observatory's built, maybe take a look at
something like this. What's the cost - well, the cost is - it's not high. So as far as you getting the
actual return on investment, it's not even really that, right? But as far as the look of the thing,
you're not going to be able to change this thing. I mean, how much more are we going to - you
going to put one of these down in the middle of Fountain Park over the fountain? Come on,
guys. I mean, at some point this has got to stop. The aesthetic of what this town is and where
it's going is a big problem. I agree with what you said 100 percent as far as development, but
there is a blend. There is a blend. I don't care if it's a Tuscan next to a contemporary; there's still
a blend architecturally, and we are blowing that. We are blowing that completely in this town.
We've done it. I mean, so let's take a stronger look at it. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
MAGAZINE: Yeah, just a clarification from staff. Would this go over the statue in Centennial
Park?
GOODWIN: Thank you. Sorry. I figured it'd be better to do it at the mike. For clarification,
the answer is yes. The statue would be moved, and that is at the request of both the public labor
committee and the Dark Skies Group. Both groups have actually requested a relocation of that
piece regardless of this project. The idea here - and I appreciate the public comment from Ed. I
know he's very involved in what we've been doing. Conceptually, the idea is to add shade.
Regardless of the design, the idea is to add shade to the space to make it more usable. The art
would then be more visible, ideally, because more people would use the space. But yes, the
piece would be relocated on property, not out - probably either closer to the community center or
future Dark Skies space.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Yes, sir. Oh, Rachael.
FRIEDEL: Rachael, is it too late to look at Ed's design? I've never seen it, but is it too late to
look at that? Is that something - we want to see what he's got?
GOODWIN: We can certainly do that. I think what we have based it on is a design -- the space
itself is about 80 feet diameter, which is not small, and we were pretty prudent in the concept of
keeping a center post out of it. Ideally, this will be used for performances and other fine arts and
things like that. So we didn't want to have a visual obstruction in the middle. So finding
something that was architecturally viable to support that does limit some of our choices. And I
don't disagree with the concept - when you look at the renderings, they're not flattering, i.e. they
do have a layered effect that kind of comes off circus-tent-like. But the actual installations that
we've seen - again, they're just sort of layered. So there's space between the two to allow
movement, to allow air, to allow cooling and things like that. So they have come out very nice.
And we do anticipate them fitting the aesthetics with our color schemes, with the tans and the
dark browns and things like that.
MILLER: They could actually be that - the wind sails that you see sometimes that are a little bit
more vertical, and they are triangular in shape. We have to be very cognizant of wind loads
because even not having a center post, we're trying to make sure we don't have an issue where
the wind takes those or causes some damage to the structure.
GOODWIN: With all that in mind, I'd be happy to talk to Ed about his other ideas or concepts of
how we might still achieve that. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else? Someone please make a motion, 165.
MCMAHON: Move to approve staff to apply and take receipt of AOT, VAI grant funding from
the Arizona Office of Tourism to support the town's economic development and tourism efforts.
SCHARNOW: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye.
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? Thank you so much. Our next item is - speaking of shade,
it's Shade 'n Net contract. Grady?
MILLER: I'll just explain it simply and Rachael can fill in the details on it. So basically we
have a particular contractor, which is Shade 'n Net, and for it's for a contract amount of about
50,000, which is my authority. We are anticipating a number of these sunscreens or sunshades
that we'll be doing with this particular vendor. We've had very good luck with this vendor. We
had another one that didn't work out so well. And so we're trying to increase the amount from
50,000 by another 450,000 in anticipation of additional sunshades that we'll be doing,
particularly, I believe, at Golden Eagle Park. With that, I'll turn it over to Ms. Goodwin, who
will provide a little bit more background.
GOODWIN: Thank you. And yes, he kind of hit the highlights here. This is a standard vendor
that we use for all of our shade needs. This is not associated with the project we just talked
about. It has nothing to do with that. Our parks have a lot of shade structures in them, whether
they're over our ramadas, our picnic areas, our playgrounds, different areas like that. So having a
multi-year contract available so that we can move forward with the additional shade structures at
our ball fields, as well as have contract availability for us to actively respond to any damage,
whether that's monsoons, ripping, wear and tear, vandalism, those kinds of things, having that
contract and availability so we can proactively and quickly address those issues, should they
come up. With that, I didn't prepare any visuals. Everybody knows we've got a lot of shade
structures in our park, and I think there's actually more than, you know, you anticipate
sometimes. Like Grady said, we have those different types of sails, especially over our
playgrounds. We have a number of them at all of our different sport courts and things like that.
So just being able to address those and keep those in good working order.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman.
SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Rachael, did I hear 450,000?
GOODWIN: It's a multi-year contract, so it's over the life of five years.
SPELICH: Oh, so it would be five years spread over, and you would spend up to 450,000 in that
five years?
GOODWIN: Correct.
SPELICH: You don't plan on blowing 450,000 next year, right?
GOODWIN: I don't have 450,000. Yes, correct.
SPELICH: I just want to make sure. You love your shade.
GOODWIN: It's hot out there. Yes, no, it is, again, for the life of the contract over multiple
years.
SPELICH: Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) calling her shady.
MAYOR DICKEY: I know. There's a lot of jokes. Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Not for this item, we don't.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any further discussion or a motion, please?
FRIEDEL: Move to approve Shade 'n Net contract 2022.091.1, amendment for park shade
installation and repairs.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Second, please.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye.
ALL: Aye.
GOODWIN: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? Thank you. Next we have our discussion, direction of town
manager. And if there isn't anything, we can take a motion to adjourn this meeting, and then
we'll take a little break before we start the work study.
FRIEDEL: Mayor, I have something.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, go ahead, sir.
FRIEDEL: Excuse how irritated I'm going to be about this, but the last week and a half, I had
three opportunities to visit the community center, and all I'm going to say is probably three, four
months ago, Councilman Spelich almost had a heart attack up here discussing the water issues in
that community center. And I'm just going to tell you how embarrassed I was, because the odor
in that building, the mildew smell, was unbelievable. On a Thursday night I was there and
people actually walked out because it was so bad. There's stains in the carpeting, sandbags still
at the doors. If we can't get this under control - we spent $800,000 on that building, and we still
have this water or moisture issue that was never fixed or addressed. We'll never get that smell
out of the carpeting, number one. Number two, I'm just wondering what health risks we have
for, A, our employees working in that building all day, and secondly, that's a hub for our seniors
in this town. It's distressing to me and embarrassing to sit with that building in that condition. If
that was here, there's no doubt in my mind that would've been already addressed. So I think we
need to get to the bottom of it and make these corrections. Whatever we need to do, we need to
streamline that to get it done. We're also charging people -
MAYOR DICKEY: To use the space.
FRIEDEL: - for that environment. And I find that just distasteful.
SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Gerry - or I'm sorry, Vice-Mayor Friedel is 100 percent
right. Five or six months ago I did literally have a heart attack on this stage, or on this dais,
because I had known that we had spent $800,000 of our taxpayers' money on this building. And
at the time, I had said it's absolutely imperative that any water mitigation that needed to be done,
needed to be done, because I think I said -- if you go back and look at the video, I think I told
everybody up here that the first major event, there was going to be issues. And I specifically
said, when the residents of this town find out that the $800,000 of their money that we spent, a
significant portion of the carpeting and everything - I didn't go to the community center. I'll be
quite honest with you. The Vice-Mayor called me and told me about it. I didn't go because I
didn't want to be upset. So I told everybody up here. I said that we needed to make it a priority,
and I believe, before we spend any more money on any more studies on anything - I don't care
what it is. Before we spend any money on anything on our wish list, please - I'm going to
reiterate this again. Please, let's get to the bottom of what the problem is concerning the water
problem at the community center and spend whatever money we have to mitigate it and get it
fixed once and for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Grady.
MILLER: Mayor, if I may. So if you recall, council, at that time, I told you this was a high
priority and we were going to work on it immediately. I will talk to you at the break and let you
know what we've done to date. In fact, we are supposed to be bringing some architectural
concepts or their plans on what they think we need to do. So that's been worked on since we had
this discussion previously. So that's all I have to say at this point, and you'll probably be hearing
about this - Justin, what part of September?
WELDY: The latter.
MILLER: The latter part.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right, Aaron. I don't know how far we're going on this, how much we're
allowed to discuss stuff. So just let me know.
ARNSON: It sounds as though the discussion direction of town manager is pretty clear.
MILLER: (Indiscernible).
ARNSON: Yeah.
FRIEDEL: Can I just add one thing? I get we need to do something around those doors. I
walked down a hallway on the other side of the building that was at risk. So I don't know how
far-reaching this is, but we've got issues.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All set? Motion to adjourn, please.
SPELICH: So moved.
SPELICH: So moved.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All in favor, aye?
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE WORK SESSION
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
AUGUST 22, 2022
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Dickey called the Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on
August 22, 2022, to order at 7:44 p.m.
2. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel; Councilmember
David Spelich; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Alan Magazine;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Mike Scharnow
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town
Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Ten members of the public were present.
3. REGULAR AGENDA
A. DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE DIRECTION: Presentation of the final report on
the Town’s Fire and Emergency Medical Services by McGrath Consulting.
Craig H. Haigh, Senior Consultant, and Malayna Halvorson Maes, Senior
Consultant of McGrath Consulting, provided an overview of the final report for the
Town’s Fire and Emergency Medical Services and answered councils’ questions.
4. ADJOURNMENT
MOVED BY Councilmember David Spelich to adjourn, SECONDED BY Councilmember
Alan Magazine to adjourn.
Vote: 7 – 0 Passed – Unanimously
The Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on August 22, 2022,
adjourned at 9:51 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
_________________________
Ginny Dickey, Mayor
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
__________________________
Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of
the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council
Chambers on the 22nd day of August 2022. I further certify that the meeting was duly
called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 22nd Day of August 2022.
_____________________________
Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 1 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 1 of 51
Post-Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
August 22, 2022 Town Council Meeting
Work Session
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
* * * * *
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
* * * * *
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 2 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 2 of 51
MAYOR DICKEY: Call this to order. And I think, Linda, the roll call?
MENDENHALL: Let the record reflect that all town council is present.
[LAUGHTER]
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MAGAZINE: She's good.
MAYOR DICKEY: We discussed this.
Our item for tonight on our work study is to discuss our fire department. And Grady, I'll
kick it off to you.
MILLER: Okay. Just wanted to remind the Council that last year we had the Council
consider approving two separate contracts. One was for evaluation of and financial
analysis of the fire department, and the other one was for law enforcement. These two
functions are our most expensive services that we provide the citizens, and probably
likely most citizens would agree they're the most important to them. It's typically what a
community provides to its residents in terms of quality of life, and so these are very
important. And we're going to go ahead and turn this over to Mr. Pock, our finance
director, who is going to provide additional details before introducing folks from the
McGrath Consulting Group that conducted the analysis.
With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Pock.
POCK: All right. Good evening, Mayor. Good evening, Council. As Grady mentioned,
we did do an RFP process in the fall of 2021 for our fire and emergency medical services
evaluation. That contract was awarded to McGrath Consulting Group, and that was done
in November. Shortly after the contract was awarded we began kind of our start up with
McGrath and just wanted to kind of give you a quick background on that company as
well as the team members, the consultants that worked on this.
So McGrath Consulting's been in business for 21 years, specializes in public safety
analysis. They have over 350 clients in 39 states, and as I mentioned the contracted was
awarded for us in November.
The team lead on this was Chief Craig Haigh. He's got 38 years of fire service
experience. He retired as a fire chief and director of emergency management from the
village of Hannover Park, Illinois.
Also on the team was Ms. Malayna Maes. She's got 20 years of HR experience and prior
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 3 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 3 of 51
experiences at a county human resource director and also primary compensation
consultant for the city of Marshville [sic], Wisconsin.
So with that, I'd just like to say and let Council know that Chief Haigh was a great person
to work with. I know many of you met with him individually; he also spent a lot of time
on this, so I will invite him up to go through his presentation.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MAES: Is it okay if I just --
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, of course, yes, welcome. Thank you for coming.
HAIGH: So I get to, I guess, lead this evening and all of the technical and really detailed
analysis Malayna will take. So at least you're familiar with how the plan will lay out.
As we get ready to step into this, look at the overall fire department, I will just say to the
Council, generally whenever our firm gets hired to come take a look at something like
what you've asked us to do, usually we get called because there's a disaster that has
occurred, or one that is impending within the next month, and they've called us and said,
hey, come take a look and help us figure out what it is that we need to do, and you've got
to do it right away, and you've got fix it because things are coming apart. That is not the
situation that you have. And I think that it's important to make sure that the Council
understands that this analysis and evaluation is a proactive step to determine whether
you're doing the right things, but from our big picture overview, you don't have a major
problem at the moment, and it takes some of the pressure off in being able to analyze, and
make sure that we get this correct. So I applaud the village for -- or I'm sorry -- the town
for stepping through that scenario.
So let's take a little bit of a high level look at the scope of the project and some of the
specifics. As Mr. Pock indicated, we were commissioned by the town to conduct an
independent, nonbiased study and cost analysis of overall fire department operations, and
the goal of the study really fell into a couple very specific categories.
One, should you renew the contract that you've had for a long time with the private
contractor, Rural Metro? Should you seek a intergovernmental, or IGA, agreement with
a nearby municipality that could provide fire protection services to you? Or should you
create your own in-house fire department? So those were the areas that we primarily
focused our attention on to try to give you the best analysis and options. As we walk
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 4 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 4 of 51
through this, there are a couple other options that we think exist that may or may not be
of interest to the Council, and I'll address those just briefly.
In addition, you have a detailed report that we completed that's the specifics on each one
of these areas. So what Malayna and I will be walking through tonight with you is just
the overall high level interview, but then we're happy to dig down as necessary, try and
answer any of your specific questions.
Overall study methodology for this really focused in six key areas. As we came in,
McGrath Consulting Group has primarily been a firm that has been located in the
Chicago metro area for almost all of its existence. Our headquarters was moved to
Tennessee within the last 12 months, but we are not from the Phoenix Valley area or
from Arizona, and so some of the analysis -- and I think it's positive in this particular
study. Some of the analysis is that we truly were able to evaluate this with an
independent eye because we didn't know per se the operational systems here in the
Phoenix area, and so we had to learn it and we needed to evaluate. And I think that's
beneficial for us to be able to give you a true unbiased analysis as to where you're at.
So step one of this overall methodology is we needed to understand the overall
contractual situation that you have Rural Metro, how it works, how it's operated for a
long time. We, two, needed to understand how fire services are provided throughout the
Phoenix Valley area. Three, we needed to do some analysis work as it relates to
compliance, use the national standards or best practices. There are a number of national
standards that are out there as it relates to providing fire protection, and we wanted to
evaluate those and look to see how that was operating within this particular community
with the service provider that is taking care of you at the moment. Fourth, we wanted to
analyze the options related to how best to provide fire protection services in the future.
Fifth, we needed to analyze the overall cost projections and give you some options. And
then lastly, we wanted to be able to provide recommendations based on study findings
and, more importantly, to give you some options. And I think that's -- in all of my years
working with local government, my direction as fire chief always was, give us options.
Let us know what we can do and what might be a possibility. And so we've tried to do
that for you in this overall study.
So as the study process laid out, interviews were one of our key aspects, and I had the
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 5 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 5 of 51
opportunity to either meet with each of you in person or via a phone conversation. I think
it's always important to get an understanding as it relates to the position of the elected
officials who actually represent the residents of the community. We spent a number of
hours with your community's leadership, your manager, and Mr. Pock and others to wrap
our arms around that side of overall community governments.
The fire service leadership component, I think, was pretty important for us to really come
to an understanding of how fire service is provided here in the Phoenix Valley area. So
we talked to the neighboring fire chiefs. We talked to past leadership from the fire
service. We spent significant time with Chief Ott, and I appreciate his indulgence in
talking us through and being very transparent in his conversations. And then from there
we looked at a number of different external service providers such as the retirement
system and public safety retention pool and the employee assistance program because
that was all going to be role in the overall analysis. So we tried to do our due diligence
and speak to, or speak with, or obtain information from as many of those involved parties
as we possible could get our hands on.
Another major component of this is an overall document and data review. Fortunately, as
we started the work for Fountain Hills, a number of communities over the years have
looked at a very similar situation. This is not a new topic in the Phoenix metro area, and
there are a number of studies that have been conducted by a number of different
consulting firms. And what I think was a benefit is that all of those studies that were
conducted were different than a study conducted by us. So I was able to reach out to
those consultants and evaluate their work but then give it our overlay to determine
whether or not we agreed or what the perspective was. But there's a lot of information.
I will also say we did a public document review and we looked at letters and memos and
training documents and strategic plans and things like that from that a number of the
different communities that have addressed this, and your neighboring fire chiefs and their
leadership team were fantastic. Any questions that I asked, any comments that -- or any
information I asked for, they more than happy to provide that. So it was incredibly
helpful in trying to figure this thing out.
And then lastly we looked at the regional dispatch services. As you know, your fire
dispatch comes through a transfer. The call will come in, and then it'll be transferred into
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 6 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 6 of 51
Rural Metro. Rural Metro actually do the dispatch for your fire agencies out of their
dispatch center. And in the event that the town would elect to move away from a contract
with Rural Metro, the situation would be you'd have to figure out where you're going to
go for dispatching. So we wanted to look at that, figure out what the cost would be, and
be able to provide some data and information there.
Malayna spent an incredible amount of time -- and she'll have the opportunity to speak
about this -- looking at some of your specific Fountain Hills data, personnel policies, and
pay plan and employee benefit guides, all of those thing necessary to be able to make a
holistic evaluation as to what the cost would be. I also looked at -- just as an added
comment, we looked at your Fountain Hills community survey that was completed in
2021, and as the manager indicated, public safety is very, very important to the residents
of this community. And I think one of the positive aspects that I could see from that
study is that the residents of the community are pretty happy with the services they're
providing, that are being provided to them. So I think that that community survey was
helpful in making some overall review.
Now, with any study of this type there are going to be limitations. And the limitation that
we noted in this is that Rural Metro and their parent company, they're a private, for-profit
entity. So when it comes to saying -- typically in government we're able to look at other
communities; we're able to look at numbers; we're able to do a side by side comparison
on data. We weren't able to completely do that because a private entity doesn't have to
release their overall numbers to us. So I would've liked to have been able to do some
better analysis and side-by-side comparisons for you, but in this particular case, just
because of the nature of what it is -- I think we've got good stuff for you, but I wasn't able
to bring some of that stuff together, and that's just the nature of how things lay out.
So key takeaways. What do we know? Let's start off with where you're currently at as it
relates to services within your community. One, I would say that Fountain Hills has a
very low fire dollar loss rate, which I think is fantastic. An awful lot of communities
can't say that, and I think there's a couple reasons for that, and I'll speak to those in just a
moment. But your overall rate is very low.
Call volume is about 4,200 calls a year. That's where you were at in 2021, and it sounds
like you're going to be there or just a little bit higher in 2022. I will just tell you for your
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 7 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 7 of 51
population base, that's a pretty consistent number for what we would see if we would
look at any community across the country, so that doesn't surprise me in any one
direction or the other.
Your overall dollar loss from structure fires is very low. So you don't -- you're fortunate
in that you're not going to a lot of structure fires, and your overall dollar loss when you
do go to a structure fire is low. The fires are being stopped and reducing that overall
property loss to your residents.
Some of the contributing factors, I think, that add to that overall analysis as to what we're
seeing, I think your building and site plan reviews are ensuring that your building and
your construction is as it needs to be, meeting standards. Your building and site
inspections, I can't say enough as it relates to ensuring that you're getting your inspectors
out there and making sure that what you think is happening is exactly what's happening.
Public education activities. Responsible capabilities and professionalism of your fire
department staff. I will say that everyone that I interacted with at the fire department, top
notch. Top notch. And seem to have a well-oiled machine and really understanding of
the requirements for the community. And lastly I'll just say your sprinkler and alarm
ordinances, if you want to have low dollar loss, sprinkler your buildings. And you have
been very proactive in making that happen, and I think all of those come together to
contribute to what it is that we're seeing.
From there, another key takeaway is that you have a contract with Rural Metro. And
Rural Metro appears, from all of the data that I was able to get my hands on -- and as I
indicated, there are some limitations. But from all of the data that I was able to get my
hands on, it looks like Rural Metro is in full compliance with all of the obligations that
are detailed in their contract. I'll click through just a couple of them.
Overall response time. The contract lays out that they want to respond in then than 300
seconds. I'll show you a graph in just a second. They're completely in compliance with
that. They actually exceed the standard. The standard is, is that the response time is
going to be 90% of the time. I will tell you, based on the numbers I looked at, they're
hitting the response times within 100% of the time. So they're exceeding that.
Two NFPA standards that we look at from the national perspective -- and when I speak
about NFPA, National Fire Protection Association. It's a consensus standard building
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 8 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 8 of 51
group. We look at -- in a study like this we look at two specific standards. We look at
1221, which is dispatch, and we look at 1910 as it relates to staffing. Neither one of
those standards are addressed within the Rural Metro contract, so it's a little difficult for
me to compare. But as we move into some of the further discussion, we'll look
specifically at those standards because they have an impact on how services are provided
in the Phoenix Valley, and if you've -- I'm sure throughout the discussion you hear about
things like Automatic Aid and the Automatic Aid System within the Phoenix Valley.
They're going to basing some of those on those NFPA standards. So you need to know
they're there, and I'll try and explain them the best I can so you understand how to make
some of your determinations.
Overall response time, as I indicated just a few minutes ago, less than 300 seconds is the
standard that we're after, and in 2021 the average response coming in at about 290
seconds. So they're meeting -- the Rural metro program as it operates today, meeting
those standards, and is actually below what the standard is as it relates to their overall
contract.
I laid out two charts here for you, the five-minute zone and eight-minute zone, and you
can see the colors as it relates to station 1 and station 2. If you were wondering whether
or not you have your fire stations positioned correctly to be able provide optimal response
times, nice work. You got them exactly where you need to be. So you can look at the
numbers there and see that that's going very, very well.
I will just say, as it relates to the key takeaways, overall big picture, I think Chief Ott
manages the organization that he leads very, very well. And he's humble guy and he told
me, I don't want that slide in there. That's --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: Take that out. Is he back there hiding?
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: I'm not looking at him. I don't want the eye. But he does a very nice job and is,
I will just say, a true professional, and it was a pleasure to get the opportunity to work
with him. Add that to the apparatus that you're operating, the equipment you have, and
your fire stations, you guys are in great shape. The challenge is just what are you going
to do as it relates to staffing and what are the roles that play out there.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 9 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 9 of 51
So let's flip just a little bit, and I told you about the really positive things that I see. Let's
talk about the other side of the coin, and I think in any study like this there's pros and
cons associated with it.
So the trend over the last 30 years has been for municipalities or districts here in Arizona
to move away from contractual fire services that have been provided by Rural Metro. As
it relates to those master contracts -- and that's what you operate under, is a master
contract -- there's really only two of those master contracts that are left. Carefree has a
master contract, and as I understand it, based on the latest information I have, is they
they're evaluating options for a potential change. I don't know that any decision has been
made, but I do know they're in the process of evaluating what that might potentially look
like. The last number I heard is it -- and this may not be completely valid because it's
been a little bit since I've talked to those folks -- is they were going to take 18 months and
take a look at the scenario. So my assessment is, is that that's under way and they're
evaluating what they're going to do. The other thing, I think, that is --
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you mind --
HAIGH: -- a little bit --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- if we ask a question?
HAIGH: I'm sorry. Yes, sir.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilman?
SCHARNOW: Craig, yeah. Thank you. Just wondering, when you talked to Carefree,
what kind of prompted them to initiate a study or why they're looking at options in --
HAIGH: I think --
SCHARNOW: -- in general?
HAIGH: -- I'll cover that in my next slide. And if I don't answer it for you, we can back
up and I can make sure I can get that for you.
I was just going to say, the other thing that seems a little concerning to me, Rural Metro
is owned by a much larger company, Global Medical Response, and they own a number
of different entities, AMR being one of those as it relates to ambulance services. It
appears from everything I was able to find that Global Medical Response is not through
Rural Metro adding master contracts. So they have a lot of contracts as it relates to
private industry, they have some aviation contracts, but they don't seem to be adding
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 10 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 10 of 51
master contracts. So that leads me as a consultant to say, if they're not adding master
contracts, is that something that is not part of their overall business plan moving forward.
I don't have the answer to that because of some of the limitations of the study. But it's
certainly something that's in my mind as I take a look at that. And if Carefree goes away
and makes a determination whether to contract with another fire entity, or whether they
create their own fire department, whatever that might potentially look like, that will put
Fountain Hills in a position where you're the last one. And is that positive or negative? I
think it could go either way. So I think it's important to make sure that we bring that
forward.
To address your question, Councilmember, I would say that the conversation as I talked
to the various entities, and I've talked to some of them, not all of them. I've got in that --
in the left -- or I would say over there in the bullet point box with the dates, I tried to list
out from information I was able to obtain communities or fire districts that have moved
away from Rural Metro. I would say that the primary reason that those moves were
taking place is that communities were looking for local control of their fire suppression
services. So that seemed to be the consistent message that I would hear as I would have
those conversations as to why they moved.
MAGAZINE: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: Excuse me. I'm sorry. We can circle back to this, but do you have any
knowledge about how well they're doing? If you were doing analysis of these cities and
towns that didn't have master contracts, do you have any sense as to how they're doing,
whether or not some are failing, whether or not -- is there a personnel problem?
HAIGH: I would say for those that I know in that list -- some of them were picked up
and transitioned over to the city of Phoenix, as an example. The biggest transfer is
Scottsdale, who had been a -- they had been, in essence, the gold standard for Rural
Metro services, and Scottsdale transitioned away from that and created their own fire
department. So of the departments that I'm aware of, I believe they're doing quite well.
I've not heard of, or nor did I have -- in any conversations that I had with the various fire
service entities, no one said to me, hey, they moved away and it was a disaster, and they
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 11 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 11 of 51
shouldn't have made that transition.
So I think to answer your question the best I can without knowing specifics, I think it's
going well. And I would also say that probably, in my estimation, the reason that some
of these transitions are going well is because of the level of professionalism of the fire
service in the Phoenix area. Phoenix area is -- fire service is different than an awful lot of
areas throughout the U.S. And I would say, if you had to pick a overall area of the
country that provides outstanding services that utilizes the and meets the national
standards and really takes into account what's the best practices for providing fire
suppression services, the Phoenix metro area has got to be -- has probably got to be
number one on that list.
So I would say probably the reason that there aren't issues is just because of the level of
professionalism that exists in this area. If you rolled that out to another part of the
country, I'm not exactly sure that I could say that, based on what my experience is with
them.
FRIEDEL: Can I ask you a follow-up question to that?
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL: So with all these towns and cities that left Rural Metro, did you find that their
level of professionalism is because they took on those employees that were existing there
already, or did they go out and bring in all new staff? Do you have any comment on that?
HAIGH: I don't know that I can speak for all of the communities. This is what I was told
in my interviews. The majority -- I believe that to be true when I say the majority. The
majority that made a transition did their absolute best to absorb the employees that had
been part of the Rural Metro contract into their new organization. I don't know that
occurred in every instance, but from what I was told, that was an effort that was put
forward. I was told repeatedly that the employees that work in these contracts that are
Rural Metro employees are very, very quality employees, very dedicated to their
communities, and that they just happen to work for a private entity comparatively to a
municipality. But at no point and in no conversation with any of the fire service
leadership I spoke with was there any comments as it relates to, yeah, the Rural Metro
folks are just not up to the standard that we would require. I didn't hear that all. There
was conversation about they don't go through the same fire academy that we do. They're
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 12 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 12 of 51
missing some base standards educationally that we would have if they were part of the
Auto Aid System, but the quality of the staff I heard nothing. Yes, sir.
So as indicated, primary reason, local control; that's what I heard repeatedly. The second
thing I heard was the desire to be part of the Automatic Aid System. And that's a major
issue here in the Phoenix area, and I'll talk a little bit more about what that is.
Rural Metro is not able to be part of the Automatic Aid System, whether that be a
politically driven situation where it was made a decision that Rural Metro wasn't going to
be part of that, I can't speak to that. I just know that under the standards as it relates to
the Regional Automatic Aid System right now, Rural Metro is not admitted.
And I heard also the situation, and I actually pulled the section out of your contract,
ARTICLE I, Section 1.6, Subsection E, that there are times that the assigned Rural Metro
fire chief gets caught in the middle. It's a situation of you really can't serve two bosses
well, and you've got a boss on the Rural Metro side, and you've got a town manger that
you're reporting to, and sometimes the fire chief is trying to carefully navigate a very fine
line there. And that can lead to some real challenges. So if there was, I would say,
overall three things that I heard as to why the decisions were made to move away, that
would be the three that were discussed repeatedly with the folks I talked to .
So let's talk a little bit about these standards and what they are and how they apply and do
they apply and do you care about them or do you not care about them? Where are we at?
So I want to look at the NFPA standards, and I want to talk about the Regional Automatic
Aid System to try and clarify what that is.
When we talk about assistance being provided to a fire department, what you'll hear on a
national level is assistance falls into two categories; it's either Mutual Aid or it's
Automatic Aid. Those are the two key areas. Mutual Aid is not automatic. Mutual Aid
is, in essence, and ad hoc request for assistance. So if the town of Fountain Hills fire
department was to respond to an incident this evening and they needed additional fire
resources, they would request Mutual Aid. They would call their dispatch center and say
I need an additional engine, I need additional two engines, I need an additional ladder.
Whatever those would be, that would be then routed from Rural Metro's dispatch center
to the appropriate dispatch center, and then they would send the assets that would be
required.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 13 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 13 of 51
The key with Mutual Aid is that you've got assets coming and they're -- especially here in
the Phoenix area, they're going to be good, they're going to show up and their do good
work, and they're going to operate at a very professional level. The problem is there's a
delay. And that's what Automatic Aid is designed to remedy.
The Automatic Aid system here in the Phoenix Valley came about in 1976 -- is when it
started getting put together. And I remember a conversation with a late Chief Alan
Brunacini from Phoenix one day. We were talking about -- he and I were talking about
this very issue, and he said, our position was just send the closest asset. We're not
interested in what the name is on the door. We're not interested in any of the specifics as
to, you know, what color the fire truck is or what hose load they have on the back of it;
send the closest asset. And that was I guess the building block in which the Automatic
Aid System was built.
I will say to you, I come from the Chicago metro area, and we operate under what we call
the MABAS, Mutual Aid Box Alarm System. It is built off of the Automatic Aid System
that exists here in the Phoenix area. I will tell you as good as -- they may take away my
Chicago metro, you know, ID card after I make this statement. But as good as we think
our system is, it pales in comparison to the Automatic Aid System that's in this area. The
true gold standard of how you do this is right here. And so a lot of communities, when
they looked at this issue of do we leave the contract relationship and go to creating our
own organization or marrying in and doing a contract with another municipal entity, a lot
of it was driven by this Automatic Aid System and what it does.
Couple key aspects you need to understand about the Automatic Aid System. One, it's a
shared communication system, so there's no transfer of calls back and forth. That's going
to speed up the overall process and aligns with one of those NFPA standards. The
thought process is, is that any asset that is owned by one of the member agencies in
essence becomes the asset of every other community, which is a major helpful
component when you look at really technical and expensive things like HAZMAT teams
and technical rescue teams and swift water and mountain search and rescue and things
like that. You rely on each other, and that's able to, you know, bring a high level of
service and quality to your communities without you having to have those teams on your
own, which is beneficial.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 14 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 14 of 51
MAGAZINE: And --
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: What's the prevalence of the Automatic Aid Systems in this metropolitan
area? In other words, do all the communities belong to that? In other words, if you don't
have that many belonging to it, it doesn't do you any good.
HAIGH: I would say -- I don't have the specific number off the top of my head. I would
say that it is almost 100%. It's not. There are a couple communities that are outside. I'd
have to pull my map out and be able to count them for you. There's not many. Almost
everybody is within the Auto Aid System.
MAGAZINE: Okay.
HAIGH: A couple other hallmarks, I believe, of the system is shared standard operating
procedures. Everybody plays off the same sheet of music; everybody plays off the same
rules. They're trained to those minimum standards, and they continue to train throughout
on those minimum standards. One of the -- I guess as one of the most discussed topics
within the standard is this compliance with NFPA 1710. And NFPA 1710 is a standard
as it relates to staffing and deployment, how many folks do you need based on what it is
that you're going to go to. And the Auto Aid communities have set a standard of you
need to have four-person companies. So an engine company is going to have four
personnel on it; a ladder company's going to have four personnel on it. And the theory
behind that is that when those companies pull up on the scene, regardless of whether it's a
Scottsdale unit, a Fountain Hills unit, a Phoenix unit, a Tempe unit, an engine is an
engine, a ladder is a ladder. And you can -- when you put your personnel to work, they
have all trained to the exact same standard and there's going to be the same number of
folks on board to go about doing the job.
That's one of the challenges as it relates to the conversation that is in front of you is that
under the Rural Metro contract you're not running four-person staffing. You're running
three personnel per engine, three personnel per ladder comparatively to the four that's
required under the Auto Aid System. And you need conversion, and you'll see some
numbers shortly. Any conversation that you would want to make where you would be
part of Auto Aid, you would need to bring your staffing up to that level, which is going to
have an increased cost associated with it. And we'll try and show you some of those
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 15 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 15 of 51
numbers.
SCHARNOW: Craig?
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
SCHARNOW: So I was told today that -- and maybe it's a different configuration, but
that we're running one station three and another station five, you know, so it equals eight,
but it's just a little different configuration.
HAIGH: Well, as I understand what you've got going on, is you've got three on the
engine at one station, you've got three on the engine at the other station, and you've got
two on your ladder tender. So if you would shut down your ladder tender and you put
four on your engines, well, then you would meet the Auto Aid -- or I should say -- you
would meet your four-person standard. That's not going to get you in Auto Aid, as I
understand it, because Rural Metro's not allowed to enter into that. But I think that adds
up to the numbers that you were just speaking of.
MAYOR DICKEY: I would agree that that was my understanding, was that we were
considered four-person staffing. So we might have to look a little bit more into that.
HAIGH: Yeah. How they're moved around and deployed once you get them in the fire
station, that would Chief Ott's area of expertise, and I'm certain would be able to give you
the specifics on all of that.
So let's look at the two NFPA standards. Does Auto Aid make sense to you? All right.
let's look --
MAYOR DICKEY: That --
HAIGH: -- at the --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- does make sense. I just wanted to bring up the Mutual Aid aspect
of it, that recently the city of Scottsdale decided not to have Mutual Aid anymore with
Rural Metro, and Scottsdale's pretty close to us. So I think that was something that
affected us.
HAIGH: I think you're right, Mayor. It had occurred as I was working on the project and
meeting with the chief of Scottsdale, the decision it made for Scottsdale to end Mutual
Aid response with Rural Metro. Certainly, they have that. That's well within purview to
do that, which then puts you in a situation of, if you call for Mutual Aid from Scottsdale,
under the standard that was adopted, they're going to turn down that response for Mutual
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 16 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 16 of 51
Aid. Now, whether that occurs or whether that doesn't occur, and what's on fire and is
there life safety involved, and all of that stuff is probably going to get figured out in the
heat of the moment, and they're going to respond. But by what was adopted at the
request of Chief Shannon, by the city of Scottsdale is that they would end that contract
with Rural Metro, which then puts you in a position of your Mutual Aid assets that are
coming to you are Rural Metro assets from a distance, and I've got some numbers to
show you on that here in a second.
MAYOR DICKEY: And we don't use it a lot, but it's (indiscernible).
HAIGH: Yeah. I think when you look at the NFPA 1710, which is probably the best
analysis as to what you actually need to deploy at an incident scene based on a type of
structure, you're going to have a tough time amassing those numbers based on not being
able to get folks through Mutual Aid. And I'll take you through that, and I've got it
broken out so I'll try and show you exactly, and hopefully I can help or we can try and
manage that a little bit.
SPELICH: Chief, let me ask you. Is the Fort McDowell fire department and the Rio
Tonaverde [sic] fire department, are they a part of Mutual Aid or are they part of the --
HAIGH: I believe both of those are Mutual Aid, but when I flip over -- I've got them
detailed in my chart, so it'll help me remember --
SPELICH: Okay. Because I was --
HAIGH: -- both of them.
SPELICH: Because I was under the impression we get a lot of help from both of those
agencies; we don't get anything from Scottsdale.
HAIGH: Nothing from -- under the new standards, Scottsdale's not going to send you
anything.
SPELICH: I thought before they really didn't send us much.
HAIGH: I can't speak to that.
MILLER: We --
HAIGH: I don't know.
MILLER: We didn't take advantage, but we had a incident recently -- you're right; we
don't really take advantage of it too often. But we had a rescue where at the Sanitary
District, actually there somebody that fell in to one of those -- I don't know what you call
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 17 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 17 of 51
it -- silos, or whatever they are. And we didn't have the proper equipment or rescue staff,
and so we were able to pull them in. Now, that as while we were still having Mutual Aid
between Rural Metro and Scottsdale. But you're absolutely right. It doesn't happen, but
it does happen on occasion.
I believe, for instance, when we had, you know, like major events here in town, like when
we had the Trump rally several years ago, we had a lot of regional assistance here both
with police and fire. And so Scottsdale actually was involved in helping with that as
well.
SCHARNOW: I had another point too. You know, in your earlier slides with the low
dollar loss, you know, I know that it's a high percentage of all our incident calls are EMS
or --
HAIGH: Yeah.
SCHARNOW: -- you know, lower, you know, versus, you know, actual fires. So I mean
I'm sure I know Chief Ott has the number but I'm just wondering in general, I mean, it's
got to be 80/20 or even high, like 90/10, I would guess.
MILLER: My understanding it's between 85 and 90%, depending on the season; is that
right, Chief? As far as emergency medical to actual fire?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You're correct.
MILLER: Okay.
SCHARNOW: You know, so I'm just wondering in light of that, when you do this
analysis in terms of meeting this NFPA standard for fire service, if that -- you know, is
that taken into account the EMS side, or the standard's different for each side? I mean,
just --
HAIGH: It's a little bit different, and I didn't analyze your EMS side; that wasn't part of
what we were asked to do. I will tell you that nationally someplace between 70 and 75%
of fire departments to provide any type of EMS service; that's 70 to 75% of what they're
doing is going to be EMS in nature. You guys are a little bit higher than that simply
based on the makeup of your community, but then, you know, the EMS aspect of it
becomes a double-edged sword. You have -- the majority of your work is EMS related,
but when you're using a rescue where you've got cross-trained, dual-role folks where
they're firefighter paramedics, if those folks are managing an EMS call, they're not
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 18 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 18 of 51
available when you need them on the fire calls. So it ends up reducing your overall
numbers of available fire fighters to respond. So it bolsters in some ways, and yet in
some ways it can be a challenge for us as we're rolling out those dual-role scenarios.
SCHARNOW: I mean, I guess I'm wondering, I mean, there's obviously an issue to be
made for planning and the worst case scenarios and all these weird incidents that we
need, you know, technical support on in terms of rescue and water and you know, this
and that versus just meeting the needs of our community in terms of our makeup and the
percentage of calls, you know. You know, just there's the four engine versus three, and
really what are needs are versus, you know, doomsday scenario. I mean, if Target Center
was on fire, I mean, I think we'd get a lot of help and, you know, we're not going to have
26 guys on that scene from Fountain Hills, but yet we're going to meet the need, I would
think. So, you know, I just get kind of caught up between planning for worst case versus
planning for what we need.
HAIGH: Well, and I think your thinking is headed in the right direction. If you look at
what are the key takeaways from the analysis as it relates to the services that are being
provided to your community, you're doing pretty good. And the model that you've got
seems to be keeping those overall numbers low. From the overall complete analysis, if
I'm looking at it from what's the national standards say, or what do you need to be able to
amass in the event that your folks are going to work at a residential structure fire, as an
example, your numbers aren't there. You're below that, and because you don't have
Mutual Aid and you're going to have pull your resources from further away, it's going to
be delayed in being able to get them there.
So when I look at it, and I've tried to look at it as neutral as I can to be able to say, what
are you currently seeing, what are the services that are being provided? Are they doing a
good job for you? I think the answer is yes. Do they meet the national standards? Do
they come into alignment with the number of folks that you're going to need for even a
residential structure fire? No. So you've got -- it's balancing that out, and I think that's
where I've tried to bring you some options to say -- and you're not in a crisis situation --
to say here, Board, take a look and see -- here's the information, take a look and make
some decisions as to what you think is going to be best for you community, and not
necessarily just jump on what everybody else does.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 19 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 19 of 51
MAYOR DICKEY: The NFPA standards, 1710 standard, though, includes emergency
medical operation, so it's not just about fire, correct?
HAIGH: It does. And I can talk a little bit about some of the specifics on EMS and how
we operate today. So let me take you through these to make sure that we understand
them just a little bit.
And then, Mayor, if you would, make sure I focus on that EMS. Don't let me sidetrack
that because I think we operate a little bit differently today then what we did in just a few
years ago, which I think is important for the Board to know.
FRIEDEL: Can I make a comment?
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL: So we're not meeting that standard right now and we have a formula that
works for us. Why would we want to increase the cost if we've got a formula that works?
I know the national standards, which we don't qualify for now anyway, right?
HAIGH: Um-hum.
FRIEDEL: So I saw in one of your other slides bringing on additional manpower was
one of the solutions, but if it works for us and we don't have a problem, why would we
want to try and meet something we're not qualified for right now anyway?
HAIGH: Well, I think that's the discussion for the Board to look at. That's the analysis
that we tried to provide is to say where are you currently at, what do your numbers look
like, what's the data say, and then what are the national standards. And I think the
conversation is -- and the decision comes from the Board as to say, where do we want to
be on this? And --
FRIEDEL: What's the penalty if we don't meet that national standard? I mean, we don't
have one now, right? Yeah. Okay.
HAIGH: There is no NFPA police out there that is going to come and do something
horrible to you because you don't meet a standard. That does not --
FRIEDEL: All right.
HAIGH: -- exist.
FRIEDEL: Okay. Thank you.
MCMAHON: I have a question. Excuse me. How does that affect the firefighters --
HAIGH: I would say --
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 20 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 20 of 51
MCMAHON: -- who are dealing with less?
HAIGH: I would say that the biggest challenge as it relates to your personnel by
operating with a minimal standard is you're increasing the risk to them. Yeah. So yes,
ma'am.
Okay. So let's look at NFPA 1221, that's in essence your dispatch standard. And then
we'll look at NFPA 1710, which is your staffing standard.
Your dispatching standard, the functionality that we're ultimately after is that 90% of the
time the standard is, is that you're going to answer the -- the dispatch center is going to
answer the 911 call within 15 seconds 90% of the time. And then once the call is
answered, it's going to be pushed out -- dispatched, in essence -- notification to the
responding entities within a 60-second window. So 15 seconds to get the call, 60 seconds
to push it out. With the Regional Automatic Aid System and a centralized dispatch, that
takes place. The call's going to come in, and it's going to get processed, and it's going to
get pushed out.
Under the standard that you currently have with Rural Metro, within the Rural Metro
contract they're going to meet that standard, and it says right in the contract they're going
to meet that standard. Now, I wasn't able, because of the limitations, to actually get those
numbers to see how they comply, but they in the contract say that they're going to meet
those standards as soon as they receive the transfer from whoever picked up the 911 call.
So you've got a built-in delay, but what that delay is and the length of that, I couldn't tell
you. But I can tell you that Rural Metro's dispatch center is set up to operate so that as
soon as they get the call coming to them, as soon as it's transferred in, they're going to
process it to meet the 1221 standard.
And we've talked through that. Let's move over to 1710 for a second. The 1710 standard
is based on job tasks. And when you read the standard, it has single family dwellings; it's
got open air strip malls; it's got commercial properties; it's got apartments; it's got high-
rises. What I did is I evaluated your community. I went into the NFPA standard and I
pulled out those that are applicable to you, because it doesn't make any sense for us to try
and do an evaluation of your needs based on an NFPA standard for things that you're not
ever going to go to. So the two areas that I focused on is the single family dwelling,
2,000 square foot structures, and the tasks or roles, you can see in that description there,
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 21 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 21 of 51
the specific number of personnel that are assigned for particular roles. And the number
is -- for a single family dwelling, NFPA standard says we need amass 16 folks on scene
with in a very specific timeframe. And I'll show you that in a second.
The other one I pulled out that focuses on this community is open air strip shopping and
apartment buildings, and specifically three-story garden apartments, things like that. So
those are things that you have here. And for that particular type of structure, the numbers
as it relates to the standard is being able to amass 27 personnel within a specific
timeframe standard. So the rest of them I didn't worry about because they're just not
applicable to you guys.
MAGAZINE: Question.
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: Did you say that the 16 is based upon how many square feet?
HAIGH: 2,000 square feet.
MAGAZINE: A home that's 2,000 square feet?
HAIGH: I'm sorry. That's not correct, what I'm saying to you 2,000 square feet. It's a
single family residence in that three bedroom, two bath kind of configuration that most of
your communities are going to see.
MAGAZINE: But what if -- we have a number of homes that are much larger than that.
HAIGH: You --
MAGAZINE: You can go 3,000, 4,000, 8,000. I mean, there are some big homes here.
How does that affect the staffing?
HAIGH: The bigger you get, you're heading more toward a commercial type building for
your overall staffing numbers. So in essence, the bigger the more players you need to be
able effectively manage the incidents.
MAGAZINE: So how do you prepare for something like that? Mutual aid would be one
way.
HAIGH: Mutual aid, Automatic Aid is going to be your key. What a lot of communities
will do, that we talk to, if they've got large residential structures like what you have, is
that they'll increase the response into targeted areas of the amount of assets that are
coming right away based on their Automatic Aid System. So if you get two engines and
a ladder, if you've got large residential pieces of property that you need to protect, maybe
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 22 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 22 of 51
they'll give you three engines and two ladders. So they'll make that modification based
on what it is they've got specific for their community.
MAGAZINE: When it's called in, how does the dispatcher know how many square feet
it is and how many personnel?
HAIGH: They don't. They don't. So when you build out your response models, your
local fire chief will say, within this geographical area of my community I have structures
that are much larger; they're pushing up against what I would see in a commercial square
footage. So what I'm going to do is any response into this geographical area, and it gets
plugged into your computer aided dispatch system, I'm going to increase the overall
assets that are going to respond into that. So it's not a situation where the dispatcher's
making the decision on the fly; it's preprogrammed from leadership at your organization
into the computer-aided dispatch systems.
MAGAZINE: It sounds like you're making a strong case for the computer-aided system,
because otherwise, under our system, what do we do when a 6,000, 7,000 square foot
home is in flames? How would we normally handle that?
HAIGH: Your personnel that are on duty, and your command staff that's coming in from
home, they know the areas in your community; they know target hazards in your
community. I talked to them. They got it; they know where they're going. They would
simply pick up the radio and say, you know, I need two additional assets, or I need three
additional assets. And if they're getting good information that they've actually got a fire
or a major incident, they'd get those assets on the road pretty quickly to you. But it's
going to be -- it's not going to be an automatic scenario; it's going to be a manual scenario
based on your on-duty folks' --
MAGAZINE: And that --
HAIGH: -- a decision-making process.
MAGAZINE: And that can make a big difference in timing.
HAIGH: It's going to make a difference in timing. What that number is and how quickly
that's going to occur, it's going to vary, I think, from officer to officer in your leadership
positions on your apparatus and knowing where it is that they're going.
MAGAZINE: Okay. Thank you.
HAIGH: So if we look at that, if we try and break that down a little bit as it relates time
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 23 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 23 of 51
that time component, which is one of the major issues as it relates to the NFPA standard,
your first engine company should arrive within 240 seconds, or 4 minutes, 90% of the
time. No problem. You guys are there.
Your second engine company arrive within 360 seconds, or 6 minutes, 90% of the time.
No problem. You're there. You meet that.
Your full initial alarm assignment, so for that residential structure we just talked about,
that 16 -- the standard says that you need to have those 16 personnel on scene within 10
minutes and 10 seconds, or 610 seconds, 90% of the time. With not having Auto Aid and
with the Mutual Aid challenges that exist, you're not going to meet that; you're not going
to get them here that quickly. That's just what it boils down to.
MAYOR DICKEY: The other thing to remember is even though we don't know the
amount, the time from dispatch to arrival, but when it comes to that -- there's a little gap
until they get to that.
HAIGH: Absolutely there is. Yes.
So when I tried to look at this, and I referenced that I've got a chart that kind of breaks
down your numbers and where your folks are coming from, this was not easy to figure
out. And so what I did is I went in and I looked at all of the stations that are near to you,
and the colors -- I used the gold color that you see up there. Those are the ones that are
part of the Regional Automatic Aid System. So Scottsdale's all listed out in that gold
color. For your Mutual Aid, Fort McDowell, Rio Verde, Salt River Stations, they're in
more of the grey so that they're easily identified. And then the Rural Metro is that bolder
green color. I tried to match up with the color of their fire trucks, but that's what made
sense in my mind, but I don't know if it does anybody else.
But what I did is I went in and I looked at all of those fire stations, and then I mapped --
using the computer I mapped their miles, and then I mapped travel distance, and
since -- depending on where the incident would be in the town, it would be impossible if I
didn't run, you know, 40 different scenarios. So what I actually used is I used this
address as the location in which I wanted to bring them to as my calculator.
So what you see is if we've got Fort McDowell come and they're coming four and half
miles, as an example; their response time's going to be about nine minutes getting in here
to you. And remember there's going to be a built-in delay through the dispatch center as
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 24 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 24 of 51
that gets transferred out.
I put in Scottsdale. I couldn't not -- even though they're saying they're not coming, I
couldn't not put their numbers in there. So Station 607, 606 are the two closest, and you
can see those minute configurations that it would take for them to respond in. Any way
you cut this with Mutual Aid being out of the picture, and then applying the overall
national standard to it, your timeframe is just going to be greater than what the standard
rolls out to be. So those are the things that I had to compare it overall to.
So I think the key takeaways under this entire thing, the intent of NFPA 1221, which is
the dispatch standard, is not being met due to the call transfer requirements between the
dispatch centers. I think based on, what I know, what I heard as I was wondering around,
I think Rural Metro's getting them pushed out the door as soon as they're getting the call,
which is excellent. It's just that transfer piece that I wasn't able to figure out, and I don't
know what that is.
Two, under the current response model employed by Rural Metro, NFPA 1710 is not
being met related to response times and staffing standards. And we've talked about that
extensively.
If the town discontinues the contract with Rural Metro and worked to comply with
standards required of the Regional Automatic Aid System, the system would help or
allow the town to meet the NFPA 1221, because of the regional dispatch, as well as 1710
standards. Now, I will say to you, you have a couple -- like all of our communities -- so
don't hear me and go, oh, means we got to build another fire station. That is not what I'm
saying to you. But in any community, just based on roadways and hills and things like
that, you're going to have areas of your community that if you said I want to be 100%
compliant within NFPA standard, you're never going to get there unless you have way
more assets then what you have. Every community that I'm aware of is always going to
have little pockets where it's not going to be there. So for me to say to you, hey, join
Auto Aid and it's going to get you 100% compliance, it would be wrong for me to say
that. It's going to get you close, but it's not going to get you 100%.
MAGAZINE: Question.
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: Did you analyze what would happen if there were two fires at the same
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 25 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 25 of 51
time, one on one side of town, one on another side of town? Doesn't that throw your
numbers out the window?
HAIGH: Yes. Absolutely it's going to throw your numbers out. I didn't analyze that. I
can tell you how that would be managed if you're part of Auto Aid, and I could tell you
how it would be managed if you're part of -- or I think I can tell you how it'll be managed
using Mutual Aid.
Under Auto Aid, they'd be like, okay, I got another address. I don't care about
jurisdictional boundaries; I don't care what the side of the rig says; I'm just going to send
that -- if it's two engines and a ladder and a chief that's going to the first fire, I'm going to
get two engines, a ladder, and chief going to the second fire regardless what the name is
on the side of the truck. And it's going to happen through the computer-aided dispatch
system right away.
Under the Mutual Aid system, I believe this to be correct, is that whoever the command
officer is from Fountain Hills would say, hey, I got a second structure fire; go ahead and
get me two engines and a ladder. And then dispatch would say, okay, where's my closest
two engines; where's my closest ladder. They're going to reach out to dispatch centers
and get them on the road.
So you're going to get the assets and they're going to come, and based on the quality that
you've got in the area, they're going to show up and do a nice job. There's going to be a
delay. There's just no way to get around that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Isn't the other part of that with Mutual versus Auto is that Auto they
have to treat you like as if you're one of them, whoever them are? And with Mutual
you're actually asking for something and if there was something else going on, then they
could make you go to the next or the next? So it's not like you're part of it if it's Mutual
as much as it is if you're Auto?
HAIGH: That is true. But I will also add to that that sometimes your closest Auto Aid
asset is on another call, and so you're not -- you know, it's going to be, hey, you're not
getting that guy; you're going to get a guy from someplace else. So it rolls both
directions there based on availability and response. The Automatic Aid is just what name
says; it's automatic and it occurs. And I think that's the real key difference between an
Automatic Aid response and a Mutual Aid.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 26 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 26 of 51
So all of that said, I think you got six options. And this is where it comes down to the
discussion as to what lays out best for the town and what it is the town wants to do. And
Malayna and I will walk you through the specifics of these.
One is status quo. You can continue to do what is that you're doing, and you saw your
numbers, so what you're doing seems to be working quite effectively.
The first option, or in this I call it option 1, is create a Fountain Hills Municipal fire
department, and if you're going to create your own fire department, which was one of the
things that we were asked to look at, you can either say we're going to meet NFPA 1710
staffing or we can create a Fountain Hills fire department that is not going to meet NFPA
1710 staffing. That would be your call if your decided to do that. If you decide I'm
going to create my own fire department, municipal fire department but we don't want to
meet NFPA staffing, you're not going to get into Auto Aid because you've got to have
some minimum standards to be able to get into the regional Automatic Aid System.
Option 2 is to create a municipal fire department that is compliant in staffing and
response times, and that'll let you into the Automatic Aid. Now ,remember, with each
one of these you're hiring folks, so your overall costs are going up.
Option 3 is to discontinue the contract with Rural Metro and enter into an
intergovernmental agreement with Scottsdale to provide personnel. And the way I look
at that would be you're simply making a trade. So you would be taking Rural Metro folks
off of your rigs and you would enter into an IGA with Scottsdale that you put Scottsdale
folks on your rigs. The only caveat to that would be Scottsdale's not going to play unless
you comply with Auto Aid. Okay?
The fourth option that we looked is to enter into an IGA to merge Fountain Hills fire
services into the city of Scottsdale. So in essence, you guys would stop being providers
at all of fire suppression, in essence give it to Scottsdale and you write them a check for
whatever it is they tell you that it's going to cost on an annual basis. So there would be an
option for you to take a look at.
The fifth option that I was able to take a look at would be to consolidate into the Rio
Verde Fire District. They're the closest fire protection district to you, and so you could
go to their board and ask them to absorb the Fountain Hills area into their fire protection
district. I had a conversation with their fire chief about that very option. He said he
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 27 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 27 of 51
doesn't think that the board would want to do that, but it would be remiss on my part if I
didn't say, well, that's an option for you to take a look at and the two political entities
could have some conversations as it relates to that.
And then option 6 would be to request proposals from other providers that are similar to
Rural Metro. There are a couple of them out there across the country. I don't know any
of them super well to be able to say one's going to do that and one's going to do
something different; I just know there are some options that exist.
So when we did our analysis we tried to look big picture, what are all of the options, and
bring those forward to you. We costed out options 1 through 4; we didn't cost out 5 and
6, but I give you those so that you know that they exist. So with --
Yes, Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: With the Rio Verde one, we'd have a property tax, correct?
HAIGH: Yes, ma'am.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thanks.
HAIGH: So yeah. There'd be a property tax that Rio Verde Fire Protection District
would assess against properties within Fountain Hills for fire suppression.
MCMAHON: I have a question, please. In your options that you went it's a little
complicated, but if you option 1, you create a Fountain Hills municipal fire department
and we use the current staffing, eventually that's going to roll over into option number 2
because we're going to have a lot more homes and things built here, growth, et cetera.
And if we're going to be in compliance with the Automatic Aid System, we're going to
eventually have to come up to that, correct?
HAIGH: If you're going to come into compliance with Auto Aid, and it's important for
you to be part of Auto Aid, if that's what the --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- if that's what the Council decides, you're ultimately going to end up in that
situation just as you outlined, yes.
MCMAHON: And in doing this, do we keep the current employees? Or I mean, I guess
my question is about the employees and how it's going to adversely affect them as well,
included in these options.
HAIGH: I don't know that I can speak to that specifically.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 28 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 28 of 51
MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: And I don't think it would necessarily be appropriate for me to speak to that.
MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: I will say that my understanding when other communities -- the majority of the
other communities, and I believe this to be true -- maybe I'm not complete on this, but I
believe this to be true. When the majority of the other communities made the decision to
move away from Rural Metro and create their own municipal departments, it's my
understanding that the vast majority of those Rural Metro employees were pulled into
employment --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- of the new employer. That's what I believe to --
MCMAHON: Right. And --
HAIGH: -- be fact.
MCMAHON: And in doing that, we would have more control of our fire department
versus if we merged with Scottsdale. I mean, it would be like we would relinquish any
control as well as the current employees and --
HAIGH: I --
MCMAHON: -- other things.
HAIGH: I think you've hit it right on the head. Yes, ma'am.
MCMAHON: And it's not that much of a cost savings, is it?
HAIGH: Well, we've got -- we'll take you through this, but then on page -- I wrote it on
my hand here -- page 37 --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: -- on page 37 you've got a side-by-side.
MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: And you can see it exactly, and we can kind of dig into some of those. You've
got it. That's the one. That's the one that makes the most sense to me where I can see
them side by side.
MAGAZINE: Were the options that you put in front of us -- other than increased cost for
staffing, do any of the options require additional costs?
HAIGH: Yes. Staffing is going to be a key. You're going to have to make some
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 29 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 29 of 51
modifications as it relates to some support staff as it relates to, like, HR and finance and
administrative assistants and things like that that Rural Metro currently provides to you as
part of your contract, and then you're going to have to pay for dispatch, which is not
cheap. But you'd have to pay for one of the regional dispatch centers. And the numbers
that we've got, we've tried to build of that in so you can -- that page 37 that you just
waved at me, it's to the best of our knowledge at the moment, in kind of the crazy
economy we've got going on, we think it's all in there. We did our best to get it in there.
MCMAHON: Okay. Also --
HAIGH: And --
MCMAHON: -- I forgot to ask. We're currently, as you say, in a contract with Rural
Metro.
HAIGH: Yes, ma'am.
MCMAHON: How would you unwind that? I mean, what would, like, be the time
constraints, do you think? Do you get a sense that they'd be willing, or do you get a sense
eventually dump us, or what?
HAIGH: Well --
MCMAHON: Your crystal ball is needed.
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: One, I don't think they would necessarily be in favor of saying, I think you guys
should create your own fire department and end the contract with us. I don't think from a
business perspective that's where they're at. Two, I can only go back to the decision that
they ended the contract with Scottsdale and put them in a difficult position. But I will
also say I've not had any conversations in any of the research that we've put into this
where anyone from Rural Metro said, yeah, we'll just shut this down and end this
contract. So I don't think you're in an emergency. I don't think you're in a panic scenario.
I think you've got time to really evaluate what you want to do.
MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: And not to mention the fact you've got pretty services right now. And so take
your time and digest this, would be my recommendation, and say, okay, let's see what's
going to really be best for our community, and then make some decisions from there.
MCMAHON: Do you know how long the contract is left or any of you know?
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 30 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 30 of 51
ARNSON: Oh. I don't know how long is left on the contract. I do know the notice the
period, but I don't know how long is left.
MAYOR DICKEY: '23.
MILLER: We've got some time left, quite a bit.
MCMAHON: Okay.
MILLER: We just basically reupped it a few years ago, so I believe we have five or
more years left.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, it was a five year contact [sic] --
MILLER: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- contract in '17 to '18, so it's going to end '22 to '23, but then we
can renew --
MILLER: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- for two years. So we have at least until June.
MCMAHON: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: But we're supposed to have a year notice too if we do anything.
MCMAHON: Okay.
ARNSON: So Mayor, you're saying there's a two year renewal period --
MCMAHON: If we renew.
ARNSON: -- followed -- yeah -- if we decide --
MAYOR DICKEY: But the five years is up --
ARNSON: Got it.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- '22/'23, I think.
HAIGH: The language that is in your contract, if I remember correctly --
MAYOR DICKEY: Um-hum.
HAIGH: -- is that you need to give Rural Metro one --
MAYOR DICKEY: A year notice.
HAIGH: -- year --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
HAIGH: -- notice if you're going to end it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
HAIGH: They have to give you two years' notice if they're going to end it, I believe is
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 31 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 31 of 51
what the contract says.
MAYOR DICKEY: It does.
MCMAHON: So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor? Oh.
MCMAHON: So when we come up to expiration, they might be giving us notice two
years or what --
HAIGH: Yeah. I --
MCMAHON: You never know, right?
HAIGH: I can't --
MCMAHON: Because you're saying that they're not --
HAIGH: I can't speak to that either way.
MCMAHON: I know.
HAIGH: I just know I'm not --
MCMAHON: But they're not --
HAIGH: Nobody has said that in any of the --
MCMAHON: -- adding master contracts, so I mean, it's really something we do have to
look at.
HAIGH: I think you need to look at it.
MCMAHON: Yeah.
HAIGH: I think the Council was very wise --
MCMAHON: Um-hum.
HAIGH: -- to look at this and analyze this.
MCMAHON: Um-hum.
HAIGH: And I think you were very wise to get ahead of it before you might potentially
have a problem.
MCMAHON: Um-hum.
HAIGH: Because you don't have one right now. You've got time. If you were to create
your own fire department, if you started today, I bet you're two years before --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- you'd get it --
MCMAHON: Transition time.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 32 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 32 of 51
HAIGH: -- before you'd get it built and transitioned. And I mean, there's --
MCMAHON: Trained --
HAIGH: It's not just a --
MCMAHON: -- and everything.
HAIGH: -- [snap] we flip the switch and all of a sudden --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- we're off and running.
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: So taking a look at it now, figuring out -- trying to figure out what's best, I
think, is very wise.
MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
FRIEDEL: Couple of points. In none of your examples did you include the use of
volunteer firefighters. I came from a town where we were 100% volunteer.
HAIGH: Right.
FRIEDEL: And it worked extremely well. So I'd like to see something or some thoughts
on what that would do for manpower to help us get to the next level. And I'm thinking,
could we not combine some of our training efforts with Scottsdale and maybe some of
the other fire departments around here? Maybe we have an IGA that allows us to train
our firefighters with them; that's a second thing. And then the third thing, for HR and
administrative staff, maybe some of that we can do in-house now with our current staff.
It's a possibility, I guess. And you mentioned that Rural Metro's handling most of that
now.
HAIGH: Malayna can speak to the specifics on the HR issue.
FRIEDEL: So I'm wondering if there might be some duplication if we make them town
employees anyway that we can handle right through our resources that we have on staff
right now.
HAIGH: Yeah. I'll let Malayna speak to that HR issue. And I think we've got that
coming up in one of our options here as we delve down into it a little bit. So I would ask
if I could pause on that one for just a minute. As it relates to relationships with the
neighbors as it relates to training and things like that, there very well may be options, and
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 33 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 33 of 51
that would need to be reach out to and see what it is that you can do. There may be
options. I didn't look at that, so I don't want to overstretch what it is that I'm saying.
After our conversation I did look at the volunteer component of it. Two things that -- and
the reason that I didn't pull any volunteer component into this aspect of it. One, volunteer
fire services is struggling today. It's a real challenge. And keep in mind that there's a 1.3
million firefighters in the U.S.; two-thirds of those are volunteers. I'm not sure five years
from now what that number's going to look like because the volunteer ranks are really,
really struggling, to be able to get volunteers, bring them in, and meet the overall training
standards that are required to be able function effectively.
Glen Ellyn, the community you and I spoke about, I have tremendous respect for that
organization, and they've been doing it for a long time and seem to be meeting -- they
seem to -- well, as of Friday when I spoke to Chief Clark, they're doing a pretty nice job
and still meeting the standards, but they're beginning to struggle. So I didn't build in a
volunteer component just because I think you'd have some challenges in making that
work. Even though you have a good volunteer base here in the community, probably
better than most communities, I think you'd have a little bit of trouble there. And two, I
didn't look at the volunteer component because if you want to bring them in and increase
your overall staffing on the apparatus, which would be fantastic, I'm not sure Auto Aid
would count it and let you in even if those volunteers were part of your overall municipal
fire department conversion. And I didn't specifically ask that question, but my gut tells
me they probably wouldn't.
MILLER: I'm familiar with the Vice Mayor's concept of volunteer fire departments, but
what I've seen and what you typically see is that the EMT, or the paramedics, are usually
professional, and in the fire part of it are the volunteers. And so even then they usually
typically pay a stipend. It may not be true volunteer. So it is very challenging to be able
to staff that up. And then also going from -- because the community I worked in
previously as the manger, we were looking at that. We had a community next door that
was bigger and larger, and they were volunteer. And we had been -- for like 30 years we
had professional. But our residents, they were just not happy about the discussion even
looking at it because they felt like they were getting a high level of service and they were
willing to pay for it. And so it's something we would have to be very careful and
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 34 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 34 of 51
cautious about. Plus in the Valley here we just don't really have, you know, volunteers
typically doing that. So it's the model in this particular region that doesn't necessarily
exist. It's not to say it couldn't, but I think it would be very challenging. And then we
also have an aging community, and so I think that's another thing that we're facing as
well.
SPELICH: I think that firefighting and police work is a young man's game. And not to
cast any dispersions on any resident, but I think the majority of the residents have
probably passed their prime in firefighting age and requirements. So I don't think that --
yeah. And I'm looking at the two guys with their uniforms on in the back too.
[LAUGHTER]
SPELICH: That includes them also. So that's why you're chiefs and you're not dragging
a hose off a truck. So I think that train left the station. It's a great idea, I'm all about
saving money, but I don't foresee -- manning the community center and telling people
what room to go to is a little different then getting on a hook and ladder. So --
HAIGH: I'll just move to the next slide.
[LAUGHTER]
MAYOR DICKEY: Probably wise.
HAIGH: So what we've got -- and don't get wrapped up in looking at these little
numbers. The side-by-side is what we want to see. Looking at the status quo, Malayna
and I, we know that you've got build in 3% multiplier. I just took a 3% multiplier and ran
it straight acrossed [sic]. So you can see and -- well, I can't see it but in --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: -- in 32-33 is going to cost -- keep doing what you're doing, you're going to be
about $5.6 million. So that's how that lays out.
These other ones get a little bit more complicated. When you get into option 1, we tried
to build it out on a ten-year projection as indicated, but you're losing some stuff when you
decide you're going to create your own and go away from Rural Metro. They've got
resources they're giving you that you don't maybe necessarily know you got. So those
numbers have got be plugged in there.
So the option 1 is you create a municipal department and you don't mess with the NFPA
staffing. We're projecting that you're going to need 34 full-time employees to make that
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 35 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 35 of 51
happen, which would be your fire chief, your fire marshal; you need an administrative
assistant over there at the fire house. I plugged in -- and Rural Metro does the training
for you, at least the base training, so I plugged training officer for you that you're going to
need to keep your people where they need to be. And then your captains, engineers, and
firefighter paramedics, so that gets you to 34.
One of the things that become a real challenge when we start to take a look this is that
you don't have a backfill pool, and you're going to have to create a backfill pool. Now,
what I mean by that is today, and as I understand the scenario, is that if you have a fire
fighter off on vacation -- you have a minimum set standard of how many folks you've
gotta have on duty here. If you have a firefighter that's off on vacation, Rural Metro from
their -- I'm just going to call it a replacement pool. I'm sure it's got some fancier name
than that, but I'm going to call it a replacement pool. They'll give you one of their
personnel that'll be detailed here to Fountain Hills to be able to backfill that position and
ensure that you're going to be at the appropriate staffing level.
Did I get that right?
OTT: Yeah. No name. No fancy name, but yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: There's no fancy name other than replacement pool?
OTT: No fancy name.
HAIGH: Well, okay. If you got somebody that calls in sick, same scenario. If you do
away with those guys, you have to have your own replacements or you're going to be
paying overtime. So based on my calculations as it relates to how many folks are you
going to need to have, you're going to need two replacements per shift to be able to run
your minimum staffing level that you've got. So if I want to have two three-person
engines and a two-person rescue and a two-person ladder tender, you're going to need
two additional staff per 24-hour shift so that you've got two folks off that are on some
type of leave, these folks are going to fill in and back fill to ensure that you're going to
maintain your minimum staffing.
Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL: Isn't that pool disappearing, though? Where are they pulling these people
from if everybody's leaving them?
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 36 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 36 of 51
HAIGH: I don't have any answer to that. I know that pool of those personnel are where
the replacements come in to fill your vacation and leave time and sick leave now. I know
there's some overtime plugged in there, and if you can't get backfill staff you're going to
have to pay overtime for it, and I know that they're doing some of that stuff as well, just
as you would in the event that you don't have enough backfill to be able to cover the
vacancies. But just based on numbers you're going to need six additional. I can just tell
you that 100% for sure.
And then there's going to be some additional administrative aspects of the organization
that you're going to need to do be able to handle these new employees and the fire
department that you've got.
So what I'm going to do -- I've talked to you a lot. I'm going to go over here and sit
down, and I'm going to hand it to Malayna, and she's going to tell you about those other
areas that you need to have, and then we can start breaking down some of the numbers
for you.
You ready?
MAES: Yeah. I was thinking you're going to need a break here pretty soon. All right.
HAIGH: They don't ask hard questions.
MAES: No. Not at all. You guys have been taking it easy on him tonight.
So probably there's no -- most of you are probably wondering, okay, well, why did we
have HR involved in this process, right? But at the end of the day you have your
building, or you have your brick and mortar, you have your apparatus, but what we have
to talk about now is that which is going to be a little bit more fluid in the discussion, and
that's going to be your human capital, because you cannot be providing these programs
and services if you don't have the employees to be able to do that.
And so what we did was we took a look at -- I call it the life cycle of the employee, okay?
So from the time that you are applying to the time that an individual is leaving
employment, you know, what are all of those financial needs that the town has to
consider. And the very first thing that came to mind -- well, not the very first thing, but
one of the -- initially in having conversations with your administration was how is the
town currently set up in terms of administration. Because what we're talking about here
is if there's going to be any possibility that you are going to create your own municipal
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 37 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 37 of 51
department, we're now suddenly talking about that you're going to bringing on 30-plus
new employees and is your internal services set up to be able to take on this
responsibility? So one of the areas that I started taking a look at is how are you handling
your human resources, how are you handling your payroll, how are you handling your
recruitment, and what type of IT services. So how are you going to, as a town, internally
support the fire department, because right now all of that is being done through Rural
Metro.
So what you have right now -- you're a small organization; you have about 80 employees.
And you know, in the world of HR, what we take a look at, there's a standard that we use,
and it's 1.4 HR professionals to about every 100 employees. I do not care if those
employees are part-time, full-time, or seasonal, because if you ask any HR person they
will tell you that they take up equal amount of work. And so what you have right now at
the town, or at least at the time that we were developing these numbers, is you have an
administrative services manager who he is the individual that is doing your HR along
with -- he has other responsibilities. And so if you're going to be bringing on 30-some-
plus individuals to start your own department, you're going to need to have some
additional support. You're going to need to have a dedicated HR individual for the town.
And, you know, there could be discussions about whether or not the employees from
Rural Metro are going to come work for the town of Fountain Hills, but there's absolutely
no guarantee that that's going to happen. And given what the turnover is right now in
public sector -- and I can rattle off all of the statistics for you, that you have your tenure
within an organization on average nationally is about six and half years and declining,
and you have one in five public sector employees who have just said that I have had
enough because of -- you know, one reason or another, they're simply just walking away
from municipal government. And because of that you are always going to have turnover
and you're going to be constantly filling those positions. And so because of it, you will
need to have -- you are going to need to have additional HR support.
There's more involved with it than just simply, you know, placing your ads; there is a
level of complexity that comes with the fire services, and -- you know, all the way from
how are you going to payroll because these are 24-hour shifts. These are not eight-hour
shifts Monday through Friday, and so your payroll set up is completely different, your
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 38 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 38 of 51
benefit structure is going to have to be different, and in reality your neighbors are
somewhat -- they're under collective bargaining agreements. And so they're -- you know,
whether or not that were to occur here at the town of Fountain Hills, there's going to be
additional HR items that you are going to have to consider.
So within the recommendations I do have one HR generalist that has been included to
help with not only the fire department, but probably once you start adding those
additional personnel to the town overall, you're probably going to find that just the town
in general is going to need that extra support.
The other area that I took a look at then is your IT services because at the time you have a
.5, and I do believe that there was some discussion about whether or not the position
might become full-time. But given that you're going to have that additional number of
users, you're going to have new software systems and then continued maintenance of
effort; the organization is likely going to need some additional IT resources, and so we
built into that an additional .5 FTE so that you have a total of -- I think you would have
then two IT individuals within the town.
The last item is the administrative support for the department. Again, this is some --
these are the areas that you don't even know are happening because Rural Metro is
providing all of that administrative assistance. There is a lot of documentation that has to
be had on training and schedules and time off and reports that have to be run, and so it is
not uncommon that an organization, a department of that size, is going to need to have a
full-time administrative assistant.
All right. Some other items that we talked about here that Craig had initially talked about
is the training officer position. And this goes to when we start talking about -- there was
some discussion of can we do training; can we, you know, share in some of those
opportunities. Well, you know, in the world of fire -- and I'm not fire person; I'm an HR
person, okay? So don't ask me about hoses or anything like that; I wouldn't be able to
answer any of those questions. But having a training officer to make sure that all of the
education and the ongoing training for your department is going to be a necessity. So
that was also built in. Craig might have some additional information on that when he
gets back up to the podium.
One of the other items that I spent time looking at is, you know, some of these
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 39 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 39 of 51
unintended consequences that come with bringing a fire department in. And first and
foremost, you know, that I talked with your municipal -- your risk retention pool
individual is what's going to happen with your workers' comp claims, because the town
should expect that your workers' comp experience, it's going to increase. Just by the
nature of the work that is being performed, that is going to be a given. And what happens
is, on an annual basis, there's going to be an audit. That audit then, you know, compares
with your your payroll is and how many employees and how much your payroll is for
firefighters versus how much your payroll is for administrative assistants. And on an
annual basis, then, those numbers are adjusted based upon actuarial audits that occur.
And so what you're going to find here is that -- excuse me.
We talked about if someone's going to get a dry mouth, it's going to be me.
So what you're going to find is that you're workers' comp dollars, just your premiums on
an annual basis, because the risk for your firefighters, it's going to go up, so you're going
to be paying more for that workers' comp coverage.
The other thing that you are going to be experiencing now is there is a new Senate bill,
the 2021 law that was passed here in the state of Arizona, and it is called presumptive
cancer law. This is very common in many states. It's getting to be more and more
common. Now, what this means is that if you have a particular profession and you have
diagnosis, and those are listed diagnoses, that no longer does that employee have to fight
to confirm that they have that diagnosis because of their job. It is now going to be
presumed. So if they have a specific diagnosis and they were a firefighter for you, then
your workers' compensation claims -- that is going to be covered now. And your risk
retention pool company, they have been planning for this in terms of premiums. They
know that the claims are going to start going up in this particular area. They said that
they've already been experiencing this. But it's one of these areas that we can't
necessarily give you a finite number of what's going to happen because they just don't
know the types of claims -- they are expecting that the claims are going to go up, but they
don't know what that total cost is going to be.
So they provided us with an estimate based upon the expected payroll; that expected
payroll has been broken out into who's in fire service versus who's administrative. But
please know that every year when you're going through your workers' comp audit and
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 40 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 40 of 51
those numbers are changing and they're looking at your claims, that workers' comp --
your experience is going to cause your insurance rates to go up. And that is not
something that we can necessarily predict for you long into the future.
But with that said, then -- and I'm going to go back to the training officer -- there are, you
know, this is really why having training officers is important, because they're going to
make sure that your people are trained according to, you know, whatever processes that
are in place in fire service to make sure that those individuals are safe. And, you know,
so we can't really -- I don't want to say put a dollar value on an individual's life, but that's
what the training officer is going to be there for.
There's going to be a need for the organization to make sure that you have wellness
testing, risk management services, and all of those services are likely going to be coming
through your HR department. This is not only just your annual testing to make sure that
your individuals are fit and that they can wear their respiratory masks, but it's also their
mental health wellness and making sure that people are okay after they have had
responded to specific events. I do know that your risk retention pool company, they have
started working on a program for your law enforcement and for your first responders to
make sure that there's additional services that are provided to those individuals just for
the mental health purposes, but in our recommendations we've also then included
additional EAP services, so on and so forth. Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: I just wanted to ask a question. You might not know this, but is this
information one of the things you were unable to find out about Rural Metro, how do
they offer these kind of things to their employees. The mental health -- obviously, they're
going to have to look at the cancer bill that passed. But all of these other services that the
firefighters and such that you're discussing, do we know if they get those now?
MAES: I do not know.
HAIGH: I did not ask those questions, ma'am.
MAES: No.
HAIGH: So I don't know.
MAES: No. I would say that if -- from my perspective though, from a best practices
standpoint, human resources, what you want to do is you want to do what you can do for
retention of your personnel. And offering wellness services and EAP services, mental
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 41 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 41 of 51
health services would be a best practice that we would want all employers to be offering.
There's going to have to be a heightened level of EAP for anyone who is in that first
response group because they go above and beyond, and they respond to events that
normal, everyday civilians wouldn't necessarily come into contact --
MAYOR DICKEY: Don't --
MAES: -- with.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Don't misunderstand me.
MAES: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm not saying they shouldn't get it. I'm saying if we're going to be
looking at costs --
MAES: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and comparisons --
MAES: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and to Peggy's point, you know, the staff's well-being --
MAES: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- then if they're not doing this now, then this change could be a
benefit to them.
MAES: And so that was an area that we have gone in and added. And so I think just in
totality, you know, this is an area with the costing - I have given you an estimate that
came from AMRRP, but we don't know what your future holds in that particular area.
This is a grey area, and we have provided -- I put a 5% adjustment on an annual basis to
these numbers, but I don't know that 5% is going to be enough going forward in the
future. Okay.
All right. Option 2.
Do you want to talk at all or do you want me to do it?
HAIGH: You can keep going.
MAES: All right.
[LAUGHTER]
MAES: Option 2. Now, this is to get you to the NFPA standard, which now means that
there needs to be additional firefighter paramedics added to be able to hit the minimum
standard. And again, going back to what Craig talked about, the backfill pool, now
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 42 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 42 of 51
because you have additional individuals on the schedule and in order to cover those
absences, whether it's sick time, vacation, a vacancy, yeah, whatever it may be, you now
are going to need an additional nine staff in order to help fill your shifts.
One of the areas that is going to be important for you and is included in the costing is
making sure that people get adequate time off, and so we did incorporate into the budget
some overtime, knowing that you are not likely going to be able to fill all of your
positions all at once and there's going to be times when overtime is just going be
necessary. From a best practices standpoint and making sure the employees have a
balance, a work/life balance for their time off, we want to make sure that your
employees -- they have the time available to take time off so you don't have burnout and
they don't start experiencing some other personal circumstances that are going to bleed
into their performance at work. Okay.
Any questions on option 2? I breezed over that one.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think when we --
MAES: I think you got it.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- when we talk about the side-by-side I'll have some questions.
MAES: Okay. Do you want to go right to the side-by-side or do we want to talk option
3?
HAIGH: Option 3 and option 4 --
MAES: Yeah.
HAIGH: -- are simply the numbers associated if you said, let's contract with an IGA with
Scottsdale.
MAES: Yep.
HAIGH: So I'd say let's just go to the side-by-side, and then we'll see exactly where
we're at.
MAES: Okay. There we go. So right now your contract with Rural Metro is, I'm just
going to round it, $4.3 million. And if you were to look at option 1, which is creating a
town department at the current staffing level, it is an increase of just over $1 million.
Part of that, and you'll see in the breakdown what we have is department -- we'll have
department costing; we'll have overtime; we've got the administrative costing. And then
there's all of these other expenses that you probably don't realize goes into having a fire
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 43 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 43 of 51
department, such as your recruiting, your PPE, the cost associated with sending
individuals to training, additional payroll processing costs, you know, that type of thing.
So a plus $1 million.
If you were to go with the higher standard, then, to make sure that you have the Auto Aid
staffing level, that then increases up to just over $6 million, and that is a $1.7 million
difference. Pretty --
Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: Inflation.
MAES: Yes.
MAGAZINE: In looking at this, would you -- is it CPI or is it a different kind of
measurement?
MAES: So what we used earlier this year, and this report has been done now for a few
months, we used a 5%. And so right now CPI well over 8%. The wages were calculated
based upon what your area, what your region is paying for like positions. And so based
upon those individuals being under -- let's say, like, collective bargaining agreement, and
those wages are set now for a period of time until those collective bargaining agreements
expire. These wages, you know, are going to be pretty consistent with what you're seeing
in the region. At such time, however, that your neighbors start to make salary
adjustments to better reflect what the current actual market is, you're going to find that,
you know, it's very possible that the 5% that we included may not necessarily keep up
with the inflationary trend. But 5% then -- you know, previous to this year, 5% would
have certainly -- it would've gone above and beyond what you would need for the CPI.
And on average health insurance nationwide has been going up on average about 4% per
year, so I felt 5% was sufficient. But I don't have the crystal ball. I wish I did. We'll see
what the end of the year look like. Right?
MAGAZINE: Get a Ouija board.
MAES: Yes. That's exactly it.
FRIEDEL: You may see ten years that 5% will be good.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
FRIEDEL: Do your costs include any maintenance on vehicles or our other
infrastructure?
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 44 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 44 of 51
HAIGH: Yes, sir. I did my absolute best to try and include that in the overall costs. And
as it relates to inflationary multipliers on equipment and personal protective equipment,
things like that, what I looked at is what is the typical inflationary multiplier on breathing
apparatus. And I think the number on breathing apparatus is 3.5%. It's been pretty
consistent, and that's the number I plugged in. But to Malayna's point, protective
equipment is -- I've always calculated protective equipment -- you know, the fire suits
that in essence we're wearing, I've always multiplied them at 15 -- or I'm sorry -- at 5% as
an annual multiplier. So that's how I calculated your numbers. I just heard the other day
that the annual multiplier right now is 15%. So we did our best and tried to break out all
of that stuff, including apparatus maintenance stations, and we tried to use as much as we
could. The message is our numbers today may be a little bit low just because we're not
sure exactly where we're going to -- where we're at and where we're going to head.
MAYOR DICKEY: I have a couple question about just the numbers in general. So this
particular side-by-side is basically the first year. The first year of the Rural Metro
contract is the least it's going to be, so that's the smallest amount. Then the option 1 or 2,
those were both the largest amounts; those first years were the largest amount. So I went
out three years just for the heck of it, and the average that it would be higher if we went
with option one was more like $825,000 a year.
The other thing I want to mention to your point is that we spend 250, something like that,
per year outside of the contract for fire here. So this amount is a little bit skewed low
because as a entity we spend about $250,000 more than that. So the other part of that is if
we do go beyond the June '23, the 3% is no longer something guaranteed. So if some of
the items that you are talking about are what they're facing, I could see that that might be
something that wouldn't be maintained for those ten years.
So it's not to say there was anything wrong with the way this was looked at, but I want to
make sure that we have all the information, you know, and we're just talking numbers.
And if we start talking about the value of making changes versus, you know, some of the
other things that don't have to do with numbers, but just going forward with the money
part, I wanted to make that point, that there are some other variables. And there's also
variables, I think, between option 1 and option 2 with an ability of option 1 to get us into
that Auto Aid if we did some other sort of flexible staffing and other things like that.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 45 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 45 of 51
And to your point, the trainer is kind of built in there.
So I think if everybody's looking at a number that is alarming, maybe there's ways to talk
a little bit about that before we talk about some of the more value judgment kind of
things.
HAIGH: If I could add to what your points are, Mayor. You're looking at first year, and
remember there's some startup costs that are associated that, that when you look at --
when you get our detailed sheets that we've got, you'll see that there are numbers back
down in subsequent years because you're not having to outfit all of your personnel with
new protective equipment at $3,500 first shot. So there's some things that are going to
back some of those numbers down in out years, but you've got your overall inflationary
multipliers that apply in there.
I think also, too, I think, and I believe you're accurate based on conversations I had with
the organizations that have made transitions like this; it's not immediately an all or
nothing to get into the Auto Aid System and bring staffing level up. There's some things
you got to do and you got to start down that path, but it's not a day one I got to be ready
to do it. That's just not even realistic to make that -- you wouldn't have anybody in the
system.
So to your point, I think what you're thinking in your analysis, based on what I heard, is
correct.
SPELICH: What's the extra 250,000 that we spend above and beyond the -- I'm a little --
MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry. I --
SPELICH: I must've been asleep --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- kind of got Dave --
SPELICH: -- for four years.
MAYOR DICKEY: I got Dave in on this late, and so I don't know he's going to actually
have that, but it might have something to do with vehicles or other things like that.
POCK: So yes. Actually in addition to our contract with Rural Metro we purchase
equipment, we maintain equipment, and we have vehicle maintenance costs. In addition
to that 250,000, we also have vehicle replacement fund that's internal, so it's just
changing basically from general fund to the vehicle replacement fund. That's about
another 200,000. So --
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 46 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 46 of 51
SPELICH: So you're talking about an additional 450,000?
POCK: Um-hum.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, the capital part is going to be ours no matter what, but if you
really want to go --
ARNSON: We own it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. So that we don't have to necessarily look at --
POCK: That doesn't count as far as (indiscernible) --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- when we're comparing, but I just want to make sure that you were
all aware that the contract isn't the only thing that we spend. So if you're going to be
really looking at these differences in numbers, I wanted to make sure that you were aware
of that. And also the fact that this start-up is the largest one, the 5373, then it goes down,
then it goes down, then it starts going back up.
SPELICH: Okay. And then the other question I have for you, ma'am, is I've been out of
Chicago for just over six years retired. Did I miss something? Because you're saying
that a fireman lasts on the job six and half years? Because --
MAES: Oh, no.
SPELICH: -- in Chicago they're --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
SPELICH: -- coming to work in a walker and an oxygen tank.
[LAUGHTER]
MAES: I won't bring that message back.
[LAUGHTER]
MAES: No. What I was talking is in generalities. So municipal government employees
on average right now are lasting six and half years. So that includes your cops; it
includes your firefighters; it'll include your administrative assistants. So the fire service
is one of those professions where, with minimal exception, most of those individuals that
come into fire service and they're going to make a career of it, they're going to last longer
than six and half years, right? But there are some individuals -- you're starting to see a
pattern and a trend now that within public safety -- and, you know, I'm not here to
necessarily talk about law enforcement, but we're going to be specific just to fire
service -- that individuals are leaving fire services too. And, you know, they are --
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 47 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 47 of 51
COVID certainly did something to them as well. They are experiencing much of the
same in terms of, you know, wellness issues and mental health concerns and that they
have hit a breaking point. The work/life balance is not necessarily level, right, and
working 24-hour shifts is not always conducive to the personal life.
And, you know, you get a profession and then you decide, well, is that going to be what
the rest of my career is going to be, and some people decide that they're just going to get
out altogether. And in fire service in general you will have individuals who, I want to get
into fire service. But then there are others that, I'm not sure if I'm going to stay in it for
the long haul because there's always just -- whether or not it's going to work for them
personally.
The work force is changing right now, and I'm sure that you get updates on how your
recruitment is going, because right now all across the United States everyone is being
challenged with filling their positions and keeping them filled. That's two different --
that's really two different things. And in fire service, you know, you have to be thinking
about, you know, the work/life balance and making sure that you get time off and how
are you -- are you getting called in on overtime, and am I going to have to miss my
child's birthday party because that's what the rotation is. So we do what we can in order
to make the experience, the employee's experience, as positive as you possibly can.
Now, that's not to say that you're going to give them absolutely everything, but you want
to try to make that a positive experience for your retention purposes.
Recruitment is an entirely different conversation but equally important because the
organization should plan and should expect that there is going to be turnover. On an
annual basis, expect that you're going to lose 10%. That's pretty typically because
individuals just decide it's not for them or I'm relocating or whatever it may be. And so
you're going to want to make sure that your salaries are competitive with your region,
right? You're going to make sure that your insurances are competitive. I haven't gotten --
I skipped over that; I apologize. I was kind of dealing with a dry mouth. But your
retirement system is a major part of this, right?
And so in the state of Arizona you have two different retirement systems, and that is
something that right now Rural Metro does not have, and that is a benefit of being a
municipal department, most certainly. But there are two different options, and the one
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 48 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 48 of 51
that we recommend is the one that all of your neighbors have because you're going to
want that for lateral opportunities. If you have a retirement plan that's different from
Mesa and Tempe and Scottsdale, they're going to be less inclined to want to come work
for you if they're already in fire service. And so you -- for competitive purposes, you
need to be offering that same package. So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Absolutely agree. And the fact that you're bringing up all of these
issues that have to do with the staff kind of opens up that other conversation, not only of
the recruiting and the keeping but the -- you know, maybe things that aren't spoken about
as much, and I do have firefighter in my family. But the idea of wanting to work for a
municipality is kind of driving force for some firefighters, and if we're going to talk about
their benefits or the things that they would prefer -- and I don't know that that's anything
that's something that can be in a study, but that is a big part of what I understand a desire
is to work for a municipality. And so I'm glad that you're talking in those terms.
Anybody have any other objects or items to speak about?
I think one of the things that you mentioned throughout had to do with the ability to get
the information, and the reason is -- and nothing is inherently good or bad about
anything, but a for-profit business has got to be more -- guards their information. And we
as a government entity are so used to everything out there, salaries, profits, whatever, and
those are things that, you know, we've never been privy to as far as this relationship goes.
So I think that's another thing to look at.
Back to money, talking about the kind of capital equipment we could at least take
advantage of being able to use. Not necessarily getting -- I know when we got our ladder
truck there was some controversy about that. But in the future, if we ever need another
ladder truck, or any one of these items that you list as kind of a specialty vehicle or even
a specialty service -- is something that we would be a benefit of if we were in the
Automatic Aid, shared communication for sure.
So obviously a lot to think about here.
HAIGH: I think to sum it up, really we got four recommendations for you that came out
of the work tried to do.
One, should the town continue to use contractual services, you want to continue to stay
with Rural Metro: I think and I would strongly recommend that you work on a
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 49 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 49 of 51
contingency plan in the event that Rural Metro exercises their right to end their
contractual relationship. As I said, they've not hinted to that to me in any of the
conversations. I don't know that that's out there. If I did or I've heard that I would tell
you, but I've not heard any of that, but I think you need to be ready. So you need to have
a contingency plan, and I would start on that in the next year so that you've got it in your
pocket and you're ready to go.
Second recommendation, if at a point the town elects to create and operate a fire
department, I think your primary goal should be to become compliant with the Regional
Automatic Aid System. I think that's important for providing the services. If you're
going to create your own department, I would say that's the best way to go. I would say
to you, if you do that -- because there are multiple ways to make that happen, there's
different steps that can be taken, there's a lot of different moving parts to make that
happen. I think that you -- I would recommend that you go out and you hire a consultant
that's knowledgeable in the Regional Automatic Aid System and you have them walk you
through the plan. And there are consultants here in the Chi -- in the --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: Do not hire the Chicago consultants for this. There are consultants here in the
Phoenix area that know this inside and out. I would --
FRIEDEL: And we have --
HAIGH: I would not go --
FRIEDEL: And we have time to work toward that too, don't we?
HAIGH: Absolutely.
FRIEDEL: Yeah.
HAIGH: Absolutely. But I would not go that alone. I think you need an expert to help
you navigate that, and I will tell you we are not it. You need to get somebody from this
system. So if you decide to go that direction, I would -- and if you need names, the
manager and I can have a conversation about who the players are that can help you, but
there are some out there.
Three, it's recommended in any move toward creation of municipal department include
the additional positions that Malayna spoke to. You're not going to be able to operate it
without that.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 50 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 50 of 51
And four, if the town elects to create a municipal fire department, it's recommended, just
as she outlined just a second ago, that you go into the Arizona Public Safety Retirement
System so that your people are competitive with your neighbors and you've got a good
recruitment opportunity.
So there's an overall analysis of what we've worked on for the last --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: I don't know how long we've been working on it. But --
MAES: It's been awhile.
HAIGH: -- it's been awhile. So --
SCHARNOW: So I have a question. Maybe it's more for Grady or maybe you, Craig;
I'm not sure. But what does contingency plan look like or who does that? Is that staff?
MILLER: Well --
SCHARNOW: Or --
MILLER: Yeah. So that could be done by staff. It could also be part of their plan for
them to continue. I will say we had a contingency plan before we brought them on.
Years ago, before my time, even, the previous manager and the staff here actually put
together a plan because at the time Rural Metro had been going through some bankruptcy
possibilities and things like that, and they had been acquired by different companies. So
we actually had put together a plan.
I'm pretty confident that probably with what I've seen tonight this is really probably the
basis of what would be in the contingency plan, but there's also things that were not
mentioned specifically, such as a transition towards an in-house department and what that
might look like. One year's notice to go ahead and give notice, if that's the option that
Council wants to do, there's going to be a lot of different moving parts that we're going to
have to take care of and do, and you just can't do it overnight. So even one year is
probably not enough time to make that happen.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other comments? No?
MAGAZINE: Great presentation.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Wow.
SCHARNOW: Well, I --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 51 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Page 51 of 51
SCHARNOW: Well, I would just say too, I mean, you know, long term, you know,
financing this type of endeavor would be another whole discussion in terms of how we do
that, you know. I mean, that's, you know -- and I'm sure this other study that we're going
to get next month or so, I mean, you know -- so I just -- that's a whole other discussion.
But --
MILLER: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Any other comments, questions? Move to adjourn?
SPELICH: I'll move.
MAGAZINE: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All in favor, please say aye.
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
ITEM 7. B.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
STAFF REPORT
Meeting Date: 09/20/2022 Meeting Type: Town Council Regular Meeting
Agenda Type: Consent Submitting Department: Community Services
Prepared by: Rachael Goodwin, Community Services Director
Request to Town Council Regular Meeting (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND
POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a Special Event Liquor License application for the Fountain Hills
Chamber of Commerce to serve alcohol at the Dance and Glow Party on October 22, 2022.
Staff Summary (Background)
The purpose of this item is to obtain the Council's approval regarding the Special Event Liquor License
application submitted by Hannah Toth, representing the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce, for
submission to the Arizona Department of Liquor. All special event liquor license applicants are required
to submit an application and pay a $25 fee for processing. Once the fee is paid and the application is
reviewed by Town staff, the application is forwarded to the Town Council for review and consideration.
After the application is approved by Town Council, the applicant will bring the signed paperwork to the
Arizona Department of Liquor, and be issued a physical license to be displayed for the duration of the
event. The special event liquor license application was reviewed by staff for compliance with Town
ordinances and staff unanimously recommended approval of the application as submitted.
Related Ordinance, Policy or Guiding Principle
A.R.S. §4-203.02; 4-244; 4-261 and R19-1-228, R19-1-235, and R19-1-309
Risk Analysis
N/A
Recommendation(s) by Board(s) or Commission(s)
N/A
Staff Recommendation(s)
Staff recommends approval.
SUGGESTED MOTION
MOVE to approve special event liquor license.
Attachments
Attachments
G:\Special Events\Liquor Apps\2022
Form Review
Inbox Reviewed By Date
Community Services Director Linda Mendenhall 09/13/2022 12:45 PM
Finance Director David Pock 09/13/2022 01:07 PM
Town Attorney Linda Mendenhall 09/13/2022 02:25 PM
Form Started By: Linda Ayres Started On: 09/12/2022 10:41 AM
Final Approval Date: 09/13/2022
ITEM 7. C.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
STAFF REPORT
Meeting Date: 09/20/2022 Meeting Type: Town Council Regular Meeting
Agenda Type: Consent Submitting Department: Administration
Prepared by: Kukkola Sonia, Financial Services Technician
Request to Town Council Regular Meeting (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION, AND
POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of Liquor License Application for Bone Haus Brewing, located at 14825 E.
Shea, Fountain Hills, Arizona, for an Extension of Premises/Patio Permit to create a cellaring room for
the brewery.
Staff Summary (Background)
The purpose of this item is to obtain the Town Council's recommendation regarding a liquor license
application submitted by Andy J. Weiner owner of Bone Haus Brewing for submission to the Arizona
Department of Liquor. Staff reviewed the liquor license application and found that it is in full compliance
with Town ordinances.
Related Ordinance, Policy or Guiding Principle
A.R.S.§4-201; 4-202;4-203 &4-205 and R19-1-102 and R19-1-311.
Risk Analysis
N/A
Recommendation(s) by Board(s) or Commission(s)
N/A
Staff Recommendation(s)
Staff recommends approval of the extension of premises liquor license application.
SUGGESTED MOTION
MOVE to approve an Extension of Premises liquor license application for Bone Haus Brewing.
Attachments
Application
Staff Review
Form Review
Inbox Reviewed By Date
Finance Director David Pock 09/13/2022 12:37 PM
Town Attorney Linda Mendenhall 09/14/2022 11:58 AM
Form Started By: Angela Padgett-Espiritu Started On: 09/13/2022 09:02 AM
Final Approval Date: 09/14/2022
TO:
FR:
(as applicable)
• Streets Division
• Fire Department
• Building Division
• Community Services
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT
INTER OFFICE MEMO
---DATE: 9/13/22
• Development Services
• Law Enforcement
• Licensing
Sonia Kukkola, RE: Liquor License Application
Financial Services Technician
Attached is a Liquor License Application for staff review.
Review the application, then mark or sign, indicating staff's recommendation for approval (with or
without stipulations) or denial.
If staff's recommendation is to deny and/or there are stipulations for approval, please attach a memo
that specifies the reasoning and the memo will be forwarded on to the Town Council for their
consideration of this application.
Name of Organization: Bone Haus Brewing, 14825 E. Shea Blvd, Fountain Hills AZ 85268
Applicant: Andy J Weiner
Date(s) of Event: N/ A
Date Application Received: 8/18/22 Town Council Agenda Date: 09/20/22
STAFF REVIEW AND RECOMMENDATION:
Department/Division Staff Member Approved
P&Z John Wesley X
Community Services Linda Ayres X
Building Safety Peter Johnson X
Fire Department Dave Ott X
Law Enforcement Larry Kratzer X
Licensing Sonia Kukkola X
Street Department Jeff Pierce X
Denied
Attach report for denial or any recommendation requiring stipulations.
N/A
ITEM 7. D.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
STAFF REPORT
Meeting Date: 09/20/2022 Meeting Type: Town Council Regular Meeting
Agenda Type: Consent Submitting Department: Administration
Prepared by: David Pock, Finance Director
Request to Town Council Regular Meeting (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND
POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of budget transfers for the Capital Project Fund, Vehicle Replacement
Fund, and Facilities Reserve Fund, Special Revenue Fund, and General Fund.
Staff Summary (Background)
Throughout the fiscal year, it is sometimes necessary to transfer funds from one budget account to
another. In most cases, the funds to be transferred are within the same department and can be made
administratively without the need to request Town Council approval. The following transfers are
needed to move budget between departments and between funds; therefore, Council approval is
requested.
FY22:
$19,000 from Capital Project Administration (CIPAD) to P3040 Splash Pad Renovation (CIPPR) to
close out project. Maricopa County Health Department required modifications to the planned
surfacing in order to approve the project.
$6,000 from General Government (GENAD) to Vehicle Replacement Administration (VRAD) to
cover additional cost to purchase and outfit new Fire Department pickup truck.
FY23:
$80,343 from Capital Project Administration (CIPAD) to D6058 Panorama Storm Drain Phase II
(CIPSTO) to cover difference between estimate and winning bid amount.
$3,366,520 from Fire Department Operations (FDOP) to Special Revenue Public Safety (SRPS) to
move budget authority from General Fund to the Special Revenue Fund in order to use American
Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) grant funds to pay 80% of FY23 Rural Metro contract costs.
$841,630 from Law Enforcement Adminstration (LAD) to Special Revenue Public Safety (SRPS) to
move budget authority from General Fund to the Special Revenue Fund in order to use American
Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) grant funds to pay 20% of FY23 Maricopa County Sheriff Office contract
costs.
$500,000 from General Government (GENAD) to Facilities Reserve Administration (FRAD) to
complete scheduled projects for FY23 based on carry-over fund balance from FY22.
$25,000 from General Government (GENAD) to Parks Administration (PKAD) to complete
contractual services started in FY22 for Sunridge Park citizen engagement.
Related Ordinance, Policy or Guiding Principle
Town Council approved financial policies and best practices.
Risk Analysis
If not approved, the budgets for the Capital Project Fund, Vehicle Replacement Fund, Facilities Reserve
Fund, Special Revenue Fund, and General Fund could be exceeded.
Recommendation(s) by Board(s) or Commission(s)
N/A
Staff Recommendation(s)
Staff recommends approval of the budget transfers as requested.
SUGGESTED MOTION
MOVE to approve the attached budget transfers as requested.
Attachments
FY22 Budget Transfer
FY23 Budget Transfer
Form Review
Inbox Reviewed By Date
Finance Director (Originator)David Pock 09/08/2022 02:16 PM
Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson 09/08/2022 02:37 PM
Town Manager Grady E. Miller 09/08/2022 05:02 PM
Form Started By: David Pock Started On: 09/08/2022 09:44 AM
Final Approval Date: 09/08/2022
09/08/2022 08:54 |TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS |P 1
DPock |BUDGET AMENDMENTS JOURNAL ENTRY PROOF |bgamdent
LN ORG OBJECT PROJ ORG DESCRIPTION ACCOUNT DESCRIPTION PREV BUDGET AMENDED
ACCOUNT LINE DESCRIPTION EFF DATE BUDGET CHANGE BUDGET ERR____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
YEAR-PER JOURNAL EFF-DATE REF 1 REF 2 SRC JNL-DESC ENTITY AMEND
2022 12 486 06/30/2022 BUA QTR BUDGET 1 8
1 CIPPR 8070 P3040 PARK & REC CAP PROJECTS PARK IMPROVEMENTS 860,000.00 19,000.00 879,000.00
600-50-50-502-000-1602-8070-P3040 FROM CONTINGENCY 06/30/2022
2 CIPAD 7010 CAPITAL PROJECTS ADMIN CONTINGENCY 273,412.50 -19,000.00 254,412.50
600-10-10-105-000-0106-7010- TO P3040 06/30/2022
3 VRAD 8010 VEHICLE REPL-ADMIN VEHICLES 74,635.13 6,000.00 80,635.13
810-10-15-901-000-2207-8010- FM GENAD CONTINGENCY 06/30/2022
4 GENAD 7010 GENERAL GOVERNMENT ADMIN CONTINGENCY 4,471,673.76 -6,000.00 4,465,673.76
100-10-15-110-100-0106-7010- TO VRAD 06/30/2022
** JOURNAL TOTAL 0.00 Z
09/08/2022 11:30 |TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS |P 1
DPock |BUDGET AMENDMENTS JOURNAL ENTRY PROOF |bgamdent
LN ORG OBJECT PROJ ORG DESCRIPTION ACCOUNT DESCRIPTION PREV BUDGET AMENDED
ACCOUNT LINE DESCRIPTION EFF DATE BUDGET CHANGE BUDGET ERR____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
YEAR-PER JOURNAL EFF-DATE REF 1 REF 2 SRC JNL-DESC ENTITY AMEND
2023 03 2 09/06/2022 D6058 BUA QTR BUDGET 1 8
1 CIPSTO 8085 D6058 STORMWATER CAP PROJ STORMWATER/DRAINAGE IMPROVEMEN 1,025,000.00 63,543.21 1,088,543.21
600-40-30-304-000-1960-8085-D6058 FM CIP CONTINGENCY 09/06/2022
2 CIPSTO 8085 D6058 STORMWATER CAP PROJ STORMWATER/DRAINAGE IMPROVEMEN 1,025,000.00 16,800.00 1,041,800.00
600-40-30-304-000-1960-8085-D6058 FM CIP CONTINGENCY 09/06/2022
3 CIPAD 7010 CAPITAL PROJECTS ADMIN CONTINGENCY 457,840.00 -80,343.21 377,496.79
600-10-10-105-000-0106-7010- TO D6058 09/06/2022
4 SRPS 6412 G4103 SPEC REV-PUBLIC SAFETY CONTRACTUAL SERVICES .00 3,366,519.78 3,366,519.78
400-30-10-105-000-0710-6412-G4103 FM GENERAL FUND (FDOP) 09/06/2022
5 FDOP 6412 FIRE-OPERATIONS CONTRACTUAL SERVICES 4,066,798.00 -3,366,519.78 700,278.22
100-30-70-701-700-1515-6412- TO G4103 09/06/2022
6 SRPS 6424 G4103 SPEC REV-PUBLIC SAFETY LAW PATROL .00 841,629.94 841,629.94
400-30-10-105-000-0710-6424-G4103 FM GENERAL FUND (LAD) 09/06/2022
7 LAD 6424 LAW-ADMIN LAW PATROL 5,344,832.00 -841,629.94 4,503,202.06
100-30-80-801-100-0106-6424- TO G4103 09/06/2022
8 FRAD 7010 FACILITIES REPLACEMENT ADMIN CONTINGENCY 550,000.00 500,000.00 1,050,000.00
610-40-30-303-000-0106-7010- FM GENERAL FUND (GENAD) 09/06/2022
9 GENAD 7010 GENERAL GOVERNMENT ADMIN CONTINGENCY 4,444,969.00 -500,000.00 3,944,969.00
100-10-15-110-100-0106-7010- TO FRAD CONTINGENCY 09/06/2022
10 PKAD 6412 PARKS ADMIN CONTRACTUAL SERVICES .00 25,000.00 25,000.00
100-50-50-502-100-0106-6412- FM GENERAL FUND (GENAD) 09/06/2022
11 GENAD 7010 GENERAL GOVERNMENT ADMIN CONTINGENCY 4,444,969.00 -25,000.00 4,419,969.00
100-10-15-110-100-0106-7010- TO PKAD 6412 09/06/2022
** JOURNAL TOTAL 0.00 Z
ITEM 8. A.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
STAFF REPORT
Meeting Date: 09/20/2022 Meeting Type: Town Council Regular Meeting
Agenda Type: Regular Agenda Submitting Department: Development Services
Prepared by: John Wesley, Development Services Director
Request to Town Council Regular Meeting (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND
POSSIBLE ACTION: A request for a Special Use Permit to allow up to four dwelling units in the C-C
(Common Commercial) zoning district on an 8,000 square-foot lot located at the northwest corner of El
Pueblo Boulevard and Ivory Drive ( Case #SUP22-000001).
Staff Summary (Background)
Update
Based on the review and discussion by the Town Council at the meeting on August 22, 2022, the
applicant has submitted a revised site plan which shows the proposed floor plans for the second floor
apartments. The application has been revised to show just four apartment units. The elevations have
been revised to reflect the change to the second floor layout, but otherwise it has not changed. The
applicant feels the architecture is not that different from what has been shown on other projects in
town and that he does not want to incur further design expenses until he has received the SUP approval.
Another concern of the Council was the available parking for this development. Staff has spoken with
Rod Warembourg, the POA president. The POA is satisfied that the amount of parking that will be
required for the proposed development is appropriate for the center and will not create an issue for the
development of other lots.
Some concerns have been expressed about the possible use of this development as a detoxification
center or a drug treatment center. Staff is currently working with the Planning and Zoning Commission
regarding the appropriate zoning for detoxification and drug treatment uses. The proposed ordinance
being considered at this time will limit these uses to C-2 and C-3 zoning districts, probably with a
requirement for a Special Use Permit and with a separation requirement from residential uses. Unless
that proposed ordinance is significantly changed, it is extremely unlikely this property will ever be zoned
to allow one of those uses.
The other concern is that the proposed residential component will be flipped and used as a community
residence. To establish a community residence would take consideration and approval of a different
SUP for that use; it could not happen without public notice and Council approval. Further, if there were
a desire to have a community residence at this location, there could only be one, not four; the ordinance
requires a minimum spacing of 1320' between residences.
Original Report
The property at the northeast corner of Fountain Hills Blvd. and El Pueblo Blvd. is zoned C-C, Common
Commercial. This zoning district is the same as the C-1, Neighborhood Commercial and Professional,
zoning district, but allows for 100% lot coverage and common parking areas rather than parking on
individual lots. The property at this corner was platted in 1973 for this type of development. The
building along El Pueblo Blvd. and a portion of the parking along the street were constructed prior to
January 1986. Additional buildings and parking were slowly added over the years. The development as
it exists today has been in place since 2004.
The lot at the corner of Ivory and El Pueblo is just under 8,000 sq. ft. The applicant is proposing to
construct a building on the property that will have a 1,900 sq. ft. office and other future tenant space on
the ground floor and residential uses on the second floor. A concept plan has been submitted to
illustrate how the lot could be developed. Residential uses are allowed in the commercial zoning
districts only through approval of a Special Use Permit (SUP). Following approval of the SUP the
applicant will prepare a final site plan as required by Sec. 2.04 of the Zoning Ordinance for review and
approval by staff.
Section II of the Fountain Hills General Plan 2020 discusses the elements that help create thriving
neighborhoods. One of the items listed is having a variety of housing types. This section includes
policies to encourage a broad range of housing types affordable for all income ranges and a range of
housing types and densities consistent with the character area. Allowing for the mixed-use building will
also further the General Plan's goal of helping to attract young families and new business to the Town.
Section III of the General Plan includes information on the Character Areas in the Town. This small
commercial area at Glenbrook and Fountain Hills Boulevard was included as part of the surrounding
neighborhood character type. More specifically, this area is considered a Mixed Neighborhood with
smaller lots and a mix of non-residential uses. This existing commercial area is intended to remain a low
intensity area with any further development or redevelopment consistent with the surrounding
neighborhood. Allowing the proposed residential use within this commercial area would be consistent
with the intent of the Plan for this area.
The zoning ordinance Section 12.03 allows consideration of residential uses in all commercial zoning
districts with the approval of a SUP. Section 2.02 of the zoning ordinance establishes the process and
criteria for consideration of a SUP. Section 2.02 D. 5. of the zoning ordinance states:
5. In order to recommend approval of any use permit, the findings of the Commission must be that the
establishment, maintenance, or operation of the use or building applied for will not be detrimental to
the public health, safety, peace, comfort, and general welfare of persons residing or working in the
neighborhood of such proposed use, nor shall it be detrimental or injurious to property and
improvements in the neighborhood or to the general welfare of the Town.
This area was zoned and platted prior to the incorporation of the Town for commercial uses. It is still
the desire of the Town to have this be a successful commercial center. The questions become:
Would allowing residential use on the second floor of this proposed building be detrimental to the
desired commercial activity?
1.
Would the residential use be detrimental to the public health, safety, peace, or comfort of the
neighborhood?
2.
Is the residential use being designed and established in a manner that creates a desirable living
environment?
3.
A review of this property shows that over its almost 50-year history it has not fully developed and has
largely been underutilized. The existing parking lot is in poor shape. Facilitating the development by
allowing a mix of uses will help to improve the overall quality of the development by introducing a new
building and additional activity on the property. More people living nearby can provide customers for
the businesses. One SUP has already been approved in this development to allow second-floor
residential in an existing building.
The C-C zoning district allows buildings up to 25' tall. The adjacent property to the east and south is
zoned R-2 and built with single-story duplex condominiums. While none of the other properties are
currently developed with two-story buildings, they are permitted on this property and all the
surrounding properties. The properties across Ivory Dr. are developed with duplex condominiums.
According to the information available from the County Assessor's website, these homes have around
1,500 sq. ft. of living space in each home. The proposed dwellings are mostly 1,100 sq. ft. each, with
one being 825 sq. ft. in size. Additional residential dwellings across the street from an existing
residential neighborhood should not be detrimental to that neighborhood. Through the formal site plan
review, staff can consider the proposed architecture of the building to fit in with the surrounding
neighborhood character.
The conceptual design has access to the apartments from El Pueblo and the parking lot to the north.
The units will be accessed from a central hallway and each will have a private patio space. The ground
floor provides each unit a private storage space and covered parking for the tenants. Residents here
will have access to shopping, schools, parks, and churches. Development of this lot should help facilitate
redevelopment and upgrading of the landscape in the parking lot.
The applicant has proposed five apartment units on the second floor. By way of comparison, if this
property were rezoned to R-3 and developed as a standalone parcel, it could have up to two dwelling
units; if zoned, R-4, it could have four units. While the SUP process does not set a density cap, it would
seem appropriate to limit the maximum number of units to what would be allowed through an
appropriate residential zoning district for the area.
The only issue staff has with the development of this property, for any use, is the parking. The spaces
are not properly striped, so staff can only estimate the number of parking spaces available in the lot,
which staff estimates at 110. If all the lots were built with one-story retail or office uses (no
restaurants), 187 parking spaces would be required by code. Residential development requires less
parking than commercial uses. If the entire area was developed with 1,000 sq.ft. apartments (46 units),
the ordinance would require 104 parking spaces. There is a much larger parking field in the western
portion of Plat 106, but the ordinance states the minimum required parking must be within 300 feet of
the use.
The request is to allow part of the total floor space allowed by code to be used for residential rather
than commercial purposes. Doing so reduces the parking demand compared to having the maximum
area built for commercial uses. The current proposal requires a minimum of 20 parking spaces, six of
which will be in the building. Only 14 spaces will be required in the common parking lot, which is met
with the parking spaces immediately adjacent to this lot.
Citizen Participation
The applicant provided a Citizen Participation Plan as part of his application. That plan included sending
letters to all property owners within 300' by March 16. The letter described the project, provided
contact information for any residents who had questions and offered to meet with residents if desired.
A Citizen Participation Report was received on April 26. The applicant did not receive any comments
from the public. One nearby property owner came to Town Hall to discuss the project. They were
unaware that 2-story development was possible in this commercial center and did not want to have
buildings that tall. They were encouraged to contact the applicant to discuss their concerns.
Related Ordinance, Policy or Guiding Principle
Zoning Ordinance Section 2.02, Special Use Permits
Zoning Ordinance Section 12.03, Uses Subject to Special Use Permits in the c-C, C-1, C-2, and C-3 Zoning
Districts Only
2020 General Plan, Thriving Neighborhoods and Character Areas
Risk Analysis
N/A
Recommendation(s) by Board(s) or Commission(s)
The Planning and Zoning Commission reviewed this request at two meetings. At the first meeting there
was some concern expressed about the amount of parking available and whether this use could be
allowed. These issues were addressed in the second meeting.
On June 13, 2022, the Commission discussed the parking requirement and the number of apartment
units that would be appropriate for this lot. There was concern about having an architecture that fit
with the center and surrounding neighborhood and that the rooftop mechanical will be screened. The
screening is required by code and will be reviewed as part of the site plan. During the site plan review
staff will work with the applicant to make these changes to the elevations.
The Commission voted to recommend approval of the Special Use Permit subject to:
A maximum 4 residential units on the property,
Dedicated parking for the development within the overall parking lot, and
Designation of the parking spaces inside the building for owner and tenants.
Staff Recommendation(s)
Subject to final site plan approval for a plan that meets code requirements, staff recommends approval
of a Special Use Permit allowing up to four apartments on this lot and designation that the parking
spaces in the building will be designated as tenant or owner parking spaces.
SUGGESTED MOTION
MOVE to approve SUP22-000001 to allow up to four dwelling units and requiring the parking spaces in
the building to be designated for tenant or owner use, as approved through site plan review.
Attachments
Vicinity Map
Revised Site Plan
Form Review
Inbox Reviewed By Date
Development Services Director (Originator)John Wesley 09/08/2022 04:56 PM
Finance Director David Pock 09/12/2022 07:55 AM
Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson 09/12/2022 08:28 AM
Town Manager Grady E. Miller 09/12/2022 10:15 AM
Form Started By: John Wesley Started On: 08/25/2022 05:20 PM
Final Approval Date: 09/12/2022
Vicinity
CASE: SUP22-000001
SITE / ADDRESS:
15006 N Ivory Drive
APN 176-04-715
REQUEST:
Special Use Permit - Mixed Use
All that is Ariz on a
FO U N TAIN HIL
L
S
TOWN OF INC. 1989
MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN REGIONAL PARK
SALT RIVER PIMA - MARICOPA INDIAN COMMUNITY
FO
R
T
M
C
D
O
W
E
L
L
Y
A
V
A
P
A
I
N
A
T
I
O
N
SC
O
T
T
S
D
A
L
E
Site Location
Vicinity MapMap ::CaseCase DetailsDetailsSUP22-000001SUP22-000001
FO
U
N
T
A
I
N
H
I
L
L
S
B
L
V
D
GLENBROOK BL
V
D
EL PUEBLO BLVD
AL
A
M
O
S
A
A
V
E
I
V
O
R
Y
D
R
E
S
C
O
N
D
I
D
O
D
R
M
I
R
A
G
E
C
R
O
S
S
I
N
G
C
T
SABIN
A
S
D
R
ALLEY
AL
L
E
Y
UP
UP
WH
WH
WH
WH
UP
1999 SF
OFFICE
COMMON
OFFICE
OPEN SPACE
PARKING
AREA -
COVERED
RESIDENTIAL
STORAGE
1490 SF
OPEN SPACE
464 SF
COMMON
324 SF
COMMON
479 SF
TENANT STOR.
LOBBY/
STAIR
LOBBY/
STAIR
MECH.
3237 SF
RESIDENT COVERED
PARKING
PATIO
PATIO
PATIO
UNIT
APPROX.
1,088 SF
UNIT
APPROX.
1,104 SF
UNIT
APPROX.
1,526 SF
PATIO
UNIT
APPROX.
1,613 SF
APN: 176-04-814
ZONING: C-C
E E L P U E B L O B L V D
EXISTING CONCRETE
CURB/ GUTTER &
SIDEWALK TO REMAIN
N
I
V
O
R
Y
D
R
R .W .3 0 ' - 0 "
R .W .3 0 ' - 0 "
R.
W.
42' -
0"
R.W.
42'
-
0
"
S.
B
.
5' -
0
"
S .B .5' - 0 "
ZERO LOT LINE
CONDITION TO
EXISTING
PARKING FIELD
NEW 24' WIDE
DRIVE WAY TO
RESIDENT GARAGE
APN: 176-04-715
ZONING: C-C
EXISTING DRIVEWAY
TO REMAIN
EXISTING DRIVEWAY
TO REMAIN
EXISTING ASPHALT
PARKING LOT
EXISTING TRASH
ENCLOSURE
EXISTING ASPHALT
PARKING LOT
TYP.
9' - 0"
5
'
- 0"
1
1'
- 0"
TYP.18' - 0"
EXISTING
LANDSCAPE
1
8
'
-
0
"
2
4'
-
1
1
7
/
8
"
ACCESSIBLE
PARKING
STALL W/ AISLE
EXISTING FIRE
HYDRANT
APN: 176-04-814
ZONING: C-C
9' - 0 "
PROJECT DATA
BUILDING AND SITE BASICS:
PROJECT ADDRESS:15006 N IVORY DRIVE
FOUNTAIN HILLS, ARIZONA 85268
ASSESSORS PARCEL #(S):176-04-715
LOT SIZE:7,968 S.F.
EXISTING ZONING:C-C
PROPOSED REZONE TO P.A.D.:
BUILDING AREA FOOTPRINT:6,504 S.F.
STORIES:2-STORY
OPEN AREA S.F.:1,490 S.F. (18%)
TOTAL AREA UNDER ROOF:13,098 S.F.
FIRST FLOOR AREA:OFFICE: 2,000 S.F.
TENANT STORAGE: 478 S.F.
GARAGE: 3,238 S.F.
TOTAL:5,716 S.F.
SECOND FLOOR AREA: 5,509 S.F.
PROPOSED UNITS:
TWO BEDROOM:4 UNITS
TOTAL UNITS:4 UNITS
AVERAGE UNIT SIZE:5,509 S.F. / 4 UNITS = 1,377 S.F.
PARKING:
REQUIRED PARKING:
OFFICE:2,000 SF / 250 SF = 8
RESIDENTIAL:
TWO BEDROOM:4 X 2 STALLS PER UNIT = 8
GUEST PARKING:4 X .25 STALLS PER UNIT = 1
TOTAL 17 STALLS
PROVIDED PARKING:SEE ENCLOSED SHARED PARKING
AGREEMENT
6 COVERED -RESIDENTIAL PARKING ONLY
14 SHARED PARKING (1 ACCESSIBLE)
TOTAL:20 STALLS
OWNER:
GURCZAK LUXURY DEVELOPMENT
& USE
15436 E PALATIAL CIRCLE
FOUNTAIN HILLS, ARIZONA 85268
CONTACT: JOHN GURCZAK
T: 480-272-1308
E: john.gurczak@gmail.com
ARCHITECT:
SYNECTIC DESIGN, INC.
1111 W. UNIVERSITY DRIVE, SUITE 104
TEMPE, ARIZONA 85281
CONTACT: LANCE D. BAKER
T: 480.948.9766
E: lbaker@sdiaz.us
PROJECT TEAM
E GLENBROOK BLVD
E EL PUEBLO BLVD
N FOUNTAIN HILLS BLVD
N
I
VOR
Y D
R
VICINITY MAP no
r
t
h
THIS PROJECT
THIS PROJECT CONSISTS OF A PROPOSED APPLICATION FOR A SPECIAL
USE PERMIT ON A CORNER PARCELS WITH EXISTING SURFACE PARKING
LOT. PROPOSED CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW 2-STORY 13,180 S.F. MIXED USE
BUILDING WITH FIRST FLOOR COMMERCIAL AND RESIDENTIAL APARTMENTS
ABOVE. SITE IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDE NEW LANDSCAPE. OFF-SITE
IMPROVEMENTS INCLUDE NEW DRIVEWAY AND MODIFICATIONS TO THE
EXISTING SIDEWALK FOR NEW CONSTRUCTION.
PROJECT NARRATIVE
FIRST FLOOR
0"
SECOND FLOOR
13' -0"
ROOF
22' -0"
25
'
M
A
X
.
B
U
I
L
D
I
N
G
H
T
.
FIRST FLOOR
0"
SECOND FLOOR
13' -0"
ROOF
22' -0"
25
'
M
A
X
.
B
U
I
L
D
I
N
G
H
T
.
FIRST FLOOR
0"
SECOND FLOOR
13' -0"
ROOF
22' -0"
FIRST FLOOR
0"
SECOND FLOOR
13' -0"
ROOF
22' -0"
R TEO
N
g
LANCE D.
35529
BAKER
S
IZO
R
A i
a
e
t
D
C
..
A
ne
,S.U .d .....A
.......
.
EER
FIRTGSIE
T
C
E
ARC
TITA
N
E
H
CI
D
Th
i
s
d
r
a
w
i
n
g
i
s
t
h
e
p
r
o
p
e
r
t
y
o
f
S
y
n
e
c
t
i
c
D
e
s
i
g
n
I
n
c
or
p
o
r
a
t
e
d
,
1
1
1
1
W
U
n
i
v
e
r
s
i
t
y
D
r
,
S
u
i
t
e
#
1
0
4
,
T
e
m
p
e
Az
,
8
5
2
8
1
,
4
8
0
.
9
4
8
.
9
7
6
6
.
T
h
i
s
d
r
a
w
i
n
g
i
s
l
i
m
i
t
e
d
t
o
t
h
e
o
r
i
g
i
n
a
l
u
s
e
f
o
r
w
hi
c
h
i
t
w
a
s
p
r
e
p
a
r
e
d
.
C
h
a
n
g
e
s
,
r
e
p
r
o
d
u
c
t
i
o
n
s
,
o
r
a
s
si
g
n
i
n
g
t
o
a
n
y
t
h
i
r
d
p
a
rt
y
o
f
t
h
i
s
d
r
a
w
i
n
g
f
o
r
a
n
y
o
t
h
e
r
u
s
e
i
s
n
o
t
p
e
r
m
i
t
e
d
w
i
th
o
u
t
w
r
i
t
t
e
n
c
o
n
s
e
n
t
o
f
S
y
n
e
c
t
i
c
D
e
s
i
g
n
I
n
c
o
r
p
o
r
a
t
ed
.
C
2
0
1
9
S
Y
N
E
C
T
I
C
D
E
S
I
G
N
1111 West University
Drive, Suite 104, Tempe,
AZ 85281
t:480.948.9766
f:480.948.9211
Phase:
Drawn By:
Reviewd By:
SDI Project No:
Date:
Sheet:
REVISIONS
EXP. 12/31/2024
8/25/2022 11:25:48 AM
Autodesk Docs://4273 15006 N Ivory/4273 Central22 360.rvt
15
0
0
6
N
I
V
O
R
Y
D
R
I
V
E
-
MI
X
E
D
U
S
E
PR
E
L
I
M
I
N
A
R
Y
S
I
T
E
P
L
A
N
15
0
0
6
N
I
V
O
R
Y
D
R
I
V
E
FO
U
N
T
A
I
N
H
I
L
L
S
,
A
R
I
Z
O
N
A
8
5
2
6
8
PRELIMINARY
SG
LDB
4273
2022-08-25
ARCHITECTURAL SITE
PLAN
A1.1
0 8/2 5/2 0 2 2
1/16" = 1'-0"2 FIRST FLOOR
1/16" = 1'-0"3 SECOND FLOOR
1" = 20'-0"1 PRELIMINARY SITE PLAN no
r
t
h
0 4020
1/8" = 1'-0"6 ELEVATION - NORTH
1/8" = 1'-0"4 ELEVATION - SOUTH
1/8" = 1'-0"5 ELEVATION - EAST
1/8" = 1'-0"7 ELEVATION - WEST