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Home My WebLink AboutAGENDApacket__09-26-23_0715_513 NOTICE OF MEETING REGULAR MEETING MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION Chairman Scott Grzybowski Vice Chairman Steven Nurney Commissioner Bill Craig Commissioner Janice Holden Commissioner Sherry Irwin Commissioner Brian Jennings Commissioner D.J. Willard TIME:5:00 P.M. – REGULAR MEETING WHEN:TUESDAY, SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 WHERE:FOUNTAIN HILLS COUNCIL CHAMBERS 16705 E. AVENUE OF THE FOUNTAINS, FOUNTAIN HILLS, AZ Commissioners of the Town of Fountain Hills will attend either in person or by telephone conference call; a quorum of the Town’s Council, various Commission, Committee or Board members may be in attendance at the Commission meeting. Notice is hereby given that pursuant to A.R.S. §1-602.A.9, subject to certain specified statutory exceptions, parents have a right to consent before the State or any of its political subdivisions make a video or audio recording of a minor child. Meetings of the Commission are audio and/or video recorded and, as a result, proceedings in which children are present may be subject to such recording. Parents, in order to exercise their rights may either file written consent with the Town Clerk to such recording, or take personal action to ensure that their child or children are not present when a recording may be made. If a child is present at the time a recording is made, the Town will assume that the rights afforded parents pursuant to A.R.S. §1-602.A.9 have been waived. REQUEST TO COMMENT The public is welcome to participate in Commission meetings. TO SPEAK TO AN AGENDA ITEM, please complete a Request to Comment card, located in the back of the Council Chambers, and hand it to the Executive Assistant prior to discussion of that item, if possible. Include the agenda item on which you wish to comment. Speakers will be allowed three contiguous minutes to address the Commission. Verbal comments should be directed through the Presiding Officer and not to individual Commissioners. TO COMMENT ON AN AGENDA ITEM IN WRITING ONLY, please complete a Request to Comment card, indicating it is a written comment, and check the box on whether you are FOR or AGAINST and agenda item, and hand it to the Executive Assistant prior to discussion, if possible. 1.CALL TO ORDER 2.ROLL CALL 3.REPORTS BY COMMISSIONERS 4.CALL TO THE PUBLIC Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (not required) on matters NOT listed on the agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction of the Commission, and (ii) is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. The Commission will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised during Call to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed for discussion and legal action. At the conclusion of the Call to the Public, individual commissioners may (i) respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to review a matter, or (iii) ask that the matter be placed on a future Commission agenda. 5.CONSIDERATION OF AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission June 27, 2023 Verbatim Minutes 6.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Appointment of MMPC Commission Chair 7.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Appointment of MMPC Commission Vice Chair 8.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: MMPC Scope of Charter 9.DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: MMPC 2024 Meeting Dates 10.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Non-Native Invasive Plant (NNIP) Working Group 11.DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Moving Toolboxes 12.DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Volunteer Waiver 13.DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Fountain Hills Trail System Designated as National Recreational Trails by the Secretary of the Interior 14.UPDATE: Installation of New Trail Counters 15.UPDATE: Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Liaison 16.UPDATE: Trail Counter Activity 17.UPDATE: Future Agenda Items McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Meeting of September 26, 2023 2 of 3 18.UPDATE: Next MMPC Meeting October 24, 2023 19.ADJOURNMENT CERTIFICATE OF POSTING OF NOTICE The undersigned hereby certifies that a copy of the foregoing notice was duly posted in accordance with the statement filed by the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission with the Town Clerk. Dated the 21st day of September, 2023 ___________________________________________ Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant The Town of Fountain Hills endeavors to make all public meetings accessible to persons with disabilities. Please call 480-816-5199 (voice) or 1-800-367-8939 (TDD) 48 hours prior to the meeting to request a reasonable accommodation to participate in the meeting or to obtain agenda information in large print format. Supporting documentation and staff reports furnished the Commission with this agenda are available for review in the Community Services' Office. McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Meeting of September 26, 2023 3 of 3 ITEM 3. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): REPORTS BY COMMISSIONERS Staff Summary (Background) Reports by Commissioners will allow commissioners to share information about town events attended and information related to MMPC. This time is purely for reporting, no discussion or comments from the public are taken, and cannot be used to address any item on the agenda. Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/01/2023 05:19 PM Final Approval Date: 08/01/2023 ITEM 5. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION OF AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission June 27, 2023 Verbatim Minutes Staff Summary (Background) The intent of approving meeting minutes is to ensure an accurate account of the discussion and action that took place at the meeting for archival purposes. Approved minutes are placed on the town's website and maintained as permanent records in compliance with state law. Attachments MMPC June 27, 2023 Verbatim Meeting Minutes Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/01/2023 04:06 PM Final Approval Date: 08/01/2023 MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 1 - Post-Production File TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS JUNE 27, 2023 MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES Transcription Provided By: https://Otter.ai ********* Transcription is provided to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 2 - TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023 A Regular Meeting of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:00 p.m. Members Present: Chair Scott Grzybowski; Vice Chair Steven Nurney; Commissioner Bill Craig; Commissioner Janice Holden; Commissioner Sherry Irwin; Commissioner Brian Jennings; Commissioner DJ Willard (Called In) Staff Present: Interim Community Services Director Kevin Snipes; Executive Assistant Patti Lopuszanski Audience: None MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 3 - GRZYBOWSKI: All right, I Call to Order the MMPC Regular Meeting scheduled for today, June 27, 2023, at 1700. So, Patti, can we do a Roll Call? LOPUSZANSKI: Yes. Chairman Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Vice Chair Nurney? NURNEY: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Craig. CRAIG: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Holden? HOLDEN: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Irwin? IRWIN: Here LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Jennings is absent. Commissioner Willard? WILLARD: Here. On the phone. LOPUSZANSKI: Thank you. GRZYBOWSKI: Item Number 3 - Reports by Commissioners. Do any of you have any new information to report since the last meeting? Okay. Do we have any Call to Public - Item Number 4? LOPUSZANSKI: No Call to Public. GRZYBOWSKI: All right, moving on to Item number 5 - Consideration and Possible Action for the Approval of the MMPC Meeting Minutes of May 23, 2023. I motion that we approve them as written. Do I have a second? NURNEY: Second. GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor? ALL: Aye. Motion Carries 7-0 GRZYBOWSKI: Any opposed? Motion carries. All right, so that brings us to Item number 6, Consideration and Possible Action for the Non-Native Invasive Plants in McDowell Mountain Preserve. Probably the sixth and seventh are the ones we have some talking to do today So, I remember at the last meeting, we did put together a working group. So, do we have any updates on that? HOLDEN: Steve, did anybody want to take that, DJ? NURNEY: We didn't decide who was going to…. HOLDEN: All right, so the three of us did. DJ, did you want to talk? WILLARD: No, I am good listen. HOLDEN: I guess I win the prize. We formed a working group that was going to look at the non-native invasive plants at a higher strategic level and figure out an approach for how we want as a commission to take on this project. So, we came up with and it's on the agenda. I don't know where because I can't find anything on this. Where is it? JENNINGS: Page 23. HOLDEN: Oh, good. Okay. So, what we wanted to do was set up a motion for the commission to consider with regard to our overall general approach, whether or not there is an approach, and then how we might want to approach it. And so, we put together on… where is it? Page what, 18? I'm almost there, sorry. Oh, I don't know how to do that. Okay. Is that like all the way down? So, we have three MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 4 - items that we suggested that we consider as a motion. And I can go through those if we need to, that we could take a vote on the following: 1. Non-native invasive plants are an ongoing issue to be addressed, and we vote on that yes or no; 2. Contingent upon available resources, either existing or new MMPC or either existing or new resources. The MMPC recommends an annual assessment of non-native invasive plants in the Preserve and based on that assessment, appropriate remediation steps are considered so that we can bring them back to the commission to discuss with this town; and 3. MMPC would create a working group to explore possible resources for education and training relevant to this task in conjunction with the Conservancy. The consideration being given I didn't see, maybe I missed them in the minutes in the agenda is the backgrounders, which was the work that was already completed in 2020, and 2021, which determined at that time that there was really no threat at that time, to the Preserve from the non-native invasive plants, and we made a presentation to Town, to Chief Ott and so we agreed that we basically would review it again, when necessary, we didn't actually set a specific date for renewal. But this could be that time. I think that is simply the approach that we took, and we recommend that we consider it for adoption. I guess the question is, if everyone unless someone has questions, or it doesn't like the questions that we've or the statements that we've suggested, could we actually put them forward for a motion? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I don't know if we need to do all three separately, do we need as a group? As far as the options considered. What do you think, Janice? Do we vote on three as options, or do we pick one? HOLDEN: I think we could make them one or two. I think initially, when we drafted the first draft, there was only kind of one paragraph that considered these three things. And then we broke them apart. So, we could put some of it back together. But I think if you move forward with number one, which is “Do we agree that this is an ongoing issue?” If we don't think it is, then you don't really need two and three. Yeah, yeah. So and so if you do if we agree, then two would be the next consideration, along with three. So, I think you sort of can't, except for one, you can't do number 2 without number 3. GRZYBOWSKI: Agree. Okay. Yeah, it makes sense. Right. So, let's have a discussion on Item #1, then. Do we believe the non-native invasive plants in the preserve are an ongoing issue that needs to be addressed? I think it is an issue that we should address on an ongoing basis. Thoughts from anybody else? We're not saying do anything. We're just saying it’s an issue that we should address we should look at. WILLARD: This is DJ, based on previous discussions, and then based on what the Trailblazers saw early on and in working on the North Leg that there was some significant evidence of non-native invasive plants that should be addressed as soon as practical so that when people are hiking on the trail early in the spring, that doesn't become an obvious eyesore on the trail. GRZYBOWSKI: Yep, I agree. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 5 - IRWIN: I'm not sure if I care about an eyesore or not. I think I care about the health of the Preserve. And I go back to one thing that one of my friends always says if we don't care and don't address it, who will? I don't think there is anyone else. So, I think we have to. NURNEY: Yeah, I think that was really question Number 1 is, if not this commission, then who? And do we believe that it's something that we should take some ownership of to bring forward to the Town? And if we're at the voting stage, I say yes too. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. Well, then let's do this. So, I make a Motion that the MMPC believes that NNIPs in the Preserve are an ongoing issue that should be addressed. NURNEY: I second. GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor? ALL: Aye. GRZYBOWSKI: Any nays? Motion Carries 7-0. Okay, so the motion carries. So, we all agree that yes, there is an issue, and we should address it. So that brings us up to Item Number 2, and Number 3, which I think are both, like Janice said two and three go hand in hand, we've already kind of we already put together a working group. You know, but I think now that the working group has a little more of a charter, they can help figure out how to do some type of education and if any training is relevant, in conjunction with the Sonoran Conservancy. Then on Number 2 - Continue to Find Available Resources. We should recommend an annual assessment of NNIPs in the Preserve, and we have a few people in the Conservancy that are trained and that went through the training, but I'm not an actual, you know, go on the field and use the app thing. But I did attend the training, we probably should do a little more thorough assessment, probably in the spring. HOLDEN: I would certainly agree that we find some way that puts the responsibility on us to come back and say, whether it's annually or bi-annually. I don't know what's right. And there probably isn't a right. There's just a good so I would be in favor of whatever annual or bi-annual assessment we need to make. And we wrote annual here. NURNEY: Yeah, you know, and looking at this again, now you can look at this five times and have five different interpretations. It almost seems like Number 3 and Number 2 should be switched over. So, first is really to educate people to identify whether we have a problem and then we bring that problem forward. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, agreed. I don't think that what we're going to vote on tonight only matters that we're right. But like agreed on that one. NURNEY: But you can't really have 2 without having 3. GRZYBOWSKI: Correct, right. So, I mean, I'm, I think annual is a good place to start this at the beginning of this season coming up. I don't know if we need to do it. And it's a good question. I don't know, if we need to do it at the beginning of the season, or if we wait till April, right next year. HOLDEN: I guess to Steve's point, if we were educated and trained first, we might actually have the answer to that. I don't know either. SNIPES: I was just going to say, when the plant becomes active again, that's when it'll be good to do that. So, in the winter, they are not going to be active from now until spring. So, coming back in the spring and taking a look, while the trail builders are out doing the maintenance will probably be a pretty close timeframe for that. And you'll have eyes on all the trails to see exactly what we have going. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 6 - HOLDEN: That makes sense. I did want to clarify that the working group that we put together unless Steve and DJ disagree, was really just an initial look at how we wanted to make the approach. We're not necessarily the same working group that's going to continue on this project. GRZYBOWSKI: Agreed. Correct. If I implied that my bad, I did not mean that. HOLDEN: If I'm overly sensitive, my bad. GRZYBOWSKI: So, and again, like tonight, we don't have to decide who's going to be on that working group. Tonight, we have a whole summer break, to talk about and decide, you know, when we come back together in September, then we can see if there are any volunteers that want to be on that working group. As Kevin said, we really can't do an assessment anyway. We have a couple of months to get some more education from the Conservancy. And then after the rainy season in the winter or rainy season this summer, and then a little bit of wintertime, we'll be ready to go early next year to do some true assessments. HOLDEN: I guess we would only need to agree now that we would be willing and able to form a working group, because if no one's going to step up to do it, then what happens? GRZYBOWSKI: Correct. So, does anybody want to bring a motion? I don't feel like I want to take all the mic. CRAIG: I still have a concern that this is an item that we really don't know a lot about yet. And are we going to be making some kind of commitment to do something where we're not knowledgeable, let alone do we have the resources? GRZYBOWSKI: Good point, I don't think we are committing ourselves as a commission to do anything right now. We are committing ourselves to put together a working group to get better educated and provide training at a minimum, we are saying that, hey, let's figure out how to do an assessment next year, which we may not be doing the assessment of the information could be the Conservancy. It could be someone with Parks and Rec. We've got some information in here about grants. Right. We're going to talk about those. So, I don't feel like we're committing ourselves as a commission. SNIPES: Okay. Yeah, I think this is more of a it could be as simple as recognizing areas of concern, and then we can bring in outside help to help us assess where those areas are, it'll help narrow it. It'll be the big end of the funnel, basically and then we'll start whittling down what we have, what we need to do, and when we need to do it. NURNEY: Yeah. And I think that's why the last part of sentence number two is deliberately ambiguous, right? HOLDEN: Well, we talked about contingent upon available resources, and whether that's knowledgeable people, whether that's their money. It's a whole bunch of the whole gamut of things that we don't know yet what they are. SNIPES: It could even be something where with the grant possibility that's below maybe our reach into the grant would be that we're looking for help to do that assessment this year, and maybe next year, we get another grant to help with the actual mitigation plans. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, let me see if I can come up with a Motion to propose that the MMPC creates a working group to explore possible resources for education and training relevant to non-native invasive plants in the Preserve and look at the possibility of an annual assessment based on our education and appropriate resources in the future. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 7 - IRWIN: Second GRZYBOWSKI: That sounds good. Okay. Any discussion on that? Okay, then let's vote. All in favor? ALL: Aye. GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Any nays? Motion carries 7-0. Okay, well, that's exciting, because then I saw the next part of the agenda and possible grant. SNIPES: Yeah. So, this was interesting because right after we started talking about this, the grant came to my email. I know Apple is listening. So, do you think it can tell us how to get the grant? One of the things that we struggle with is staff being able to get to things like this. And now with us being even more short-handed, what I would like to ask is, if you guys would be willing to tackle some of the questions that are in there, do as much as could be done, and then the Town side of it, we can fill in all the details. It could be a group that and we may look into this and go, this isn't for us. It's a 90-10. Grant. So, it’s a good one 10% and so, if we can come up with and I am because it's the Department of Forestry, I know that things like what we're looking at now, they would rather us start looking into it now. So, it can help us get someone under contract who can help us out with doing assessments as well down the road. So, I just wanted to get this in here so that you guys can see it, and we can talk about it a little bit, I wish I had the time that I need to be able to pull something like this off, but it's not something that I have right now. It may be that they do these yearly. So, it's not like this is a one-and- done. I just wanted to show an example of what the grants look like the things that they look for, and the detail that's needed in it and so I wanted us all to be able to take a look at that. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I noticed the deadline is July 28. SNIPES: Yeah, they don't give you much time this year. Right. NURNEY: So, I'll confess that this is a very extensive document, and didn’t have time to go through it line by line. But Kevin, do you know, since we're at the stage now, where we're at the very beginning stage where we believe we may have a problem? Could we still win a grant, even though we don't even know whether we truly have a problem yet? SNIPES: I don't have the answer to that, to be honest. You know, it's one of those. It's a known creeping death occurring, right? It's been coming across the state for years, we've been watching it. And we know that it's close and we know that we're starting to see several different ones in the area, not necessarily in our Preserve. So, I think, if we feel like there is, and we want to tackle something like this year to help us figure that out, then it would be we'd be looking for small numbers, comparatively to say, Scottsdale, who has more and is already fighting more. Then next year, we would be re-upping and looking for grant ability again, for if we find that we have more, we need more. Or we can certainly just use this as a tool to know this is one of the ways that we can help fight it and the workgroup can look at this and see what it is. Then next year, if we assess and we go, yep, we know that there is more we'll know when this is going to be coming out and trying to be ready for a similar type of grant next year. And I don't think that's a bad idea. I just wanted to get this in front of you for you to see what's expected. When we you know, it's easy to say we should just get a grant. Yeah, well, there are a lot of 1000-word questions that are on here. So, it's not like you write it in a day and you're done. You know, and so I just want everybody to be on the same page. HOLDEN: Grant Writing is like a whole other thing. And it's not something you do part-time, or you do it part-time, but you do it full-time for the month or two that the grant is up. I don't think we are anywhere near ready for those questions, we need to identify all the locations where the invasive species are found. And they're looking for specific ones. And interestingly enough the globe around the globe, MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 8 - chamomile stinknet wasn't one of them. But we do have the grasses, and I didn't even know half of them once they were looking at. But so But what this does do is if we agree that we're going to form a working group to start educating and training, these are the things the areas that we're going to want to look at, I don't even know I mean, the first thing you'd probably want to check is done they do this annually, or Bi-annually or every five years, because every five years could be a long time. Nevertheless, if this is what we're going to use, it's a great guideline to set up a working group and kind of identify what we need to be looking at and looking for. NURNEY: I'm just one more quick question I'm trying to look through here. I thought I may have seen something earlier, but I don't see it now. At what point are the funds awarded? So, the deadline for applying is July 28. But when would we expect to have money available? SNIPES: I didn't see that. I don't know for sure. WILLARD: When I read it, it said, you know, the application by the end of July or whatever, the grants would actually be awarded in the late fall. And then the money is set to be spent in the first of the year. So, it's a pretty spread-out timeframe. NURNEY: Yeah, here it says announcements are anticipated by October 2023. But I don't see when the money is actually granted. Yeah, I'm assuming we would have money available by spring if we needed to do something. LOPUSZANSKI: If you look on page 35, it does show grant funds are provided on a reimbursement basis for all expenses incurred. So as soon as you're spending then you would submit and that's usually the protocol. You have to report it. Sometimes it's quarterly, it could be monthly, but that's usually how it is done. NURNEY: I think that answers the question. So, we could potentially be reimbursed for any expenses that we incur after October if we were awarded the grant. IRWIN: Kevin, how is the 10% match that's required come from? Do we already have some slush funds in the budget or discretionary funds that could be used to fund the 10%? SNIPES: We would never use a slush fund. IRWIN: I realized that as soon as I said that that would probably not work. Discretionary. WILLARD: Volunteer labor counts. SNIPES: Oh, yeah, we could do some offset. WILLARD: So, we're I think we're more than covered just with the volunteer labor equivalent funding. SNIPES: We would have multiple ways of doing that. So, some of it is in kind. And each year, we have a fund in our budget for grants to go out and try and get things just like this because we don't know exactly what's going to be offered a year ahead of time and when they get offered, we have a fund that does cover matching. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I mean, just doing my quick speed reading here. Very detailed questions like Janice just pointed out, right, they want to know, do we already have polygons identified and all the plants? Right? So, I think I think like you're saying, Kevin, glad you put out in front of us, but this year, we're not ready to actually try to apply for this grant but is a very good framework to understand what we're going to have to do. And so, the working group, when we meet next, in the fall, we can start discussing how do we train. What are the resources we need in the coming, you know, in the spring, to kind of do some of these assessments so that we can then be educated to do a grant writing for next year? MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 9 - SNIPES: Correct? HOLDEN: And how do we, how do we log our hours? Sorry, DJ, logging hours, got to be the first thing we do. WILLARD: Well, again, it just to back up one step. I mean, one of the things explicitly laid out in this grant is that it does not include assessment, it includes remediation. GRZYBOWSKI: Correct. WILLARD: So we need to do the assessment prior to putting in for this type of grant so that we know what to ask for. GRZYBOWSKI: Yep, that's what we were just saying. WILLARD: Yeah, so I mean, this grant doesn't help us with the assessment. We're on our own to do that ahead of asking for the grant. Those hours don't count against the grant that hours counting against the grant, there are the volunteer hours associated with helping with the remediation. HOLDEN: Good point. CRAIG: Do we have some kind of guidelines in order to make an assessment? Or is that what the work group will primarily do? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I think that's part of the going to be the workgroup. And I think it's going to be hopefully working with Scottsdale as well, right to figure out exactly how they did it. You know whether it's Scott Hamilton or the other guy that was in that you mentioned, Bill, I forgot his name, Paul. Yeah. So, I think that would be one of the action items of the workgroup to work with them to figure out exactly how to do that assessment. SNIPES: Well, I think that if we reach out to the Department of Forestry and Fire Management, they'd be more than happy to send someone over to have this exact conversation and probably present to this group if I was guessing. GRZYBOWSKI: That is a good idea. Okay. HOLDEN: And they're also a bunch of other local Phoenix organizations that are really dedicated to this issue as well. And who will come out we had trained two years ago, we put all that together, then we could, the working group could identify resources like that, to come out and do it again. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. So, I think that completes Item number seven. Is there any other discussion? No. Let's move on to Item number 8, Review and Discussion of our MMPC Scope or Charter. We did not meet so I don't have any updates on that one. We thought we could get together before this meeting, but it didn't happen. So hopefully, we could get together over the summer. So, in September, we'll have a better update on that. That brings us to Item number 9, Consideration and Possible Action for the New Trail Signage. So, there were some rough drawings included in the agenda packet as well. So, Bill, do you want to lead us on that one? CRAIG: Very rough. I just threw this together for Kevin. And then when I started and sat down to work on what the new signage would be. There were a number of questions that ran through my mind. And it would be good to go ahead and look at these now. Do you want to take these and, see if we can come to a conclusion on these? Let's start with the first one on the Overlook Trail. Are we going to call the whole trail the Overlook Trail? Or the Overlook Loop? The Overlook Loop or the Overlook extension? I think we should probably eliminate any mention of the Easy Access Trail. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I was definitely on board with that one. CRAIG: Replace the faded signs. Now, at this time, or later. Kevin is saying yes why don't we do it now. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 10 - SNIPES: Yeah, we'll have the funding available to put in new signs. So, it doesn't make any sense to go out there and put in half new signs and have half look like they've been here for decades. I think any of them that need that attention, I think it'd be a good time to do it. And we can place it all in one big order to try and get a better deal on the order as well. CRAIG: Okay. Let me go to hit the end of this with the Overlook and then come back and discuss it. The whole idea of the emergency markers should we replace those, or should we eliminate them? We sort of talked about this before. It would be good; I think for us to make a recommendation here. Then other than the emergency markers I see just two signs needed. And again, this was just preliminary at the junction of the present Overlook and the Easy Access. There should be a sign and Kenny V can work this up better which says whatever the name of this is, and a fork going left or right. The other one I'm looking at and should you need some guidance here is up on the peak where the plaque is if you would turn around opposite the plaque about eight feet away from that a sign saying Overlook Extension Overlook Trail with a sign pointing both ways. Discussion on this? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I mean I think Overlook Trail is what we should use for all of it right I don't think we need to use the word extension anywhere I think you just have Overlook Trail. WILLARD: I was thinking Overlook Loop. HOLDEN: Yeah, sorry go ahead…. GRZYBOWSKI: Correct it is an official loop. I'm good. HOLDEN: Did we not in our trail naming protocol somewhere have a definition for a loop and a trail when we first made when the recommendation was first made? GRZYBOWSKI: We did. HOLDEN: Wonder where that is. Okay, so this I think would constitute a loop if I remember correctly and that's the beauty of this trail of course is that it's no longer just an out-and-back. SNIPES: Yeah, I think that was how it was sold to the council as well as it being a loop so I think that we should be incorporating that makes total sense. CRAIG: Is this something we're going to need to vote on? GRZYBOWSKI: I don't think so. SNIPES: Yeah, I think we have a general consensus. CRAIG: All right. How about the emergency markers this discussion will go throughout. NURNEY: It doesn't seem like we're the ones that should be making that decision. If Chief Ott says we don't need them. GRZYBOWSKI: We don't need any of them. Correct. NURNEY: MCSO says they don't care? GRZYBOWSKI: Correct. The fire department has none of them on their maps they don't have any equipment to get out anybody they don't use them. CRAIG: They are on the maps that we present to them, right? GRZYBOWSKI: Right, they don't use it he said that we have cell coverage throughout all of the Preserve, and we could locate anybody by cell phone. SNIPES: Technology has taken the place of no reason NURNEY: I guess if you don't have a cell phone you can't call and say you're at an emergency marker. SNIPES: Exactly. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 11 - GRZYBOWSKI: We did have a discussion a year or two ago that we overdid the trail markers in the first place. So, the last trail we just did we put a lot less than you know, but since we have to take these out anyway because of a new name. I don't see a reason to put them back in. IRWIN: What about the emergency landing thing though? Do the zones still remain, they don't care they, don't need them, the same thing? GRZYBOWSKI: Same thing yeah. SNIPES: Yeah, they said once again that they wouldn't land they would hover to come in and get it so it makes it again where that's no longer a necessary thing in the Preserve. CRAIG: When they did a rescue out on the Ridgeline Trail, they from what I understand went ahead and landed someplace. GRZYBOWSKI: I mean, we were out there that day, they found the spot and they landed and picked up the lady. CRAIG: So, we're not maintaining the landing zones. We’re not therefore in the new trails, putting any emergency markers. What about the emergency markers that are present throughout the Preserve? GRZYBOWSKI: Well, I think it's case-by-case since this time, we're renaming this trail and we should just take them out. You know, we could decide later if we ever feel like taking the rest of them out. When they start getting faded and ruined then we could take them out. SNIPES: Yeah, I thought I was going to say as they fail, we could plunk them out and so to try and make it a big job. It could be a much smaller job and taken out. CRAIG: Andrews Kinsey and Western Trail and even Ridgeline we could take them out. NURNEY: Do we know how many we have in total in the Preserve? CRAIG: I think like on the Sonoran they're like 30 and less on the Lower Sonoran. WILLARD: Yeah, I agree with Kevin. I mean, even though what we're saying is as new trails go in, we don't need to put location markers on the new trails. There's no urgency or reason to hustle about removing the other ones. We can just do it at our leisure, I guess. NURNEY: Are they cemented in place? IRWIN: Yeah. That's what I was just going to ask Bill, what's your recommendation? I mean, how much extra work? This sounds like, if there's some incident, it's a bunch of work. Why bother at this time? CRAIG: Unless you would take a sledgehammer and break up the cement and bury it and bring the signs back? Yeah, it'll be work. And we have enough work to do with the new trails and the renaming of the new signs. SNIPES: I think it could absolutely just be a future task. As you know, if you're in an area and you're doing some repair, and Scott decides he wants to swing a sledgehammer for a couple of minutes, he could take one out and doesn't have to all come out at once. NURNEY: We don't say the Town doesn't face any liability if somebody gets injured, and they call 911. And say, I'm at mile marker or emergency marker, or so and so on. And the response is, I don't know where that is? SNIPES: They would already know. CRAIG: Okay, how about the two signs? Any other suggestions about putting the sign up at where the plaque is? GRZYBOWSKI: Since it's a loop, it doesn't really, we don't need a point. Well, you know, the parking lots back this way or Trailhead. It's a loop I mean, it really, it's not that big. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 12 - CRAIG: I think initially, they'll have, they won't even know where the loop goes. It's not immediately evident, since we're taking it through some boulders. So, I think there should be some sign put up there. SNIPES: So, once you get to where the plaque is, do you just have a sign that says, loop, just another loop that has an arrow forward that sends you that just tells you to keep going and you're still on the loop? It wouldn't have to be still direction, it could just be a single directional forward arrow, you keep going. It's a loop because I hear what you're saying you could get there and know the trail ends there in the past. So having a sign that says, the loop continues on may not be a bad thing to have an Overlook Loop with an arrow up telling you that if you keep going, you'll loop back to where you came from. I don't think that's a bad idea. CRAIG: All right and then the sign would be if you're facing the plaque, and you're going to the loop, which would be to the left there would be a sign there just saying Overlook Loop. All right. Andrews Kinsey Trail, yes, eliminate the Western Bike Loop signs, emergency markers we've discussed, and possibly only two new signs. One at the beginning of what is presently the Western Bike Loop, which will now be the beginning of the Andrews Kinsey and it will be one of the larger signs that not only says the name of the trail but gives information about it. NURNEY: Just give me one hopefully final thought about the emergency markers. If we already have the posts up in there in concrete, would there be any benefit to replacing the actual sign with a mile marker? Because you do encounter new hikers out there sometimes who say hey, how much further is it to the end of Ridgeline or something? Right? HOLDEN: If they're a mile marker 10 Or they're at 10? How are they going to know where the end is? NURNEY: Well, well know whether it's a mile marker or whether you say you know, once quarter miles to the end or something. But is there any utility to those posts, rather than just tearing them out? SNIPES: I think those are so low to the ground that I don't think that's the kind of post you would want that on anyway, right? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, most people don't even see them. SNIPES: The idea was you had to have to be looking for them to find them. CRAIG: That's a thought or some of the rest of you think well, you know, saying this post is just 4- tenths of a mile. SNIPES: If you wanted to do that, I'm not against that as being an idea but you could just add it to a sign below right, one of the other signs randomly around if you wanted to, and then he wouldn't be adding more posts to the Preserve because that seems like a bad idea. But if you had just a little like a four-by-four square that said 1.4 miles left or to the end or something like that, I think they could discuss that and you could do that anytime down the road. We wouldn't have to do that and make that decision tonight but you could think about it as you know, as you're out there doing things, and see if that's something an angle we want to look at, and we certainly have it. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking there's plenty of good spots for that like when we got the crossovers to get back to Sonoran and right or lower Sonoran. Ridgeline we got like you know the lookout and we got you know, good places to put some signs like .5 Miles. Okay, good idea. CRAIG: Then a second sign relative to the Andrews Kinsey Trail at the beginning of the present or the old Western Loop up on the Promenade. We talked about leaving that there, the post and saying Alternate Access to Andrews Kinsey Trail. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 13 - HOLDEN: Sorry, I've forgotten what does it say about the Western Loop? Is there a direction there anymore? Would there be one to the Western Loop? CRAIG: Do you want to put that there also? HOLDEN: Because then it should say access to the Andrews Kinsey Trail and Western Loop. IRWIN: But it's not Western Loop it's Western Trail now. HOLDEN: Sorry, Alternate Access whatever. GRZYBOWSKI: Right alternate access to Andrews Kinsey. HOLDEN: Why does it have to be alternate? CRAIG: We had used those terms before. HOLDEN: When you get there it's the access right? GRZYBOWSKI: I don't know what we've got another sign I can't think we have others that… WILLARD: When we discussed the original discussion relative to trail renaming the logic that I like is that Bill as you said the loop the west the bike trail goes away and just Andrew Kinsey starts there. And then as you go up the Promenade there is an Alternate Access to the Andrews Kinsey can see but that is that access is not Andrews Kinsey it goes to the endless side. I think it's clear and I like the way it's written and then you know the Western Trail keys off the Andrews Kinsey in either case. IRWIN: I'm with DJ on this alternate access. I like it. But what about it and I don't see it on here. Do we have the Western… Oh, that's coming up. Okay. Gotcha. NURNEY: Not to belabor the point here but the other possibility was Andrews Kinsey Trail 500 yards this way or something, right? GRZYBOWSKI: Right. We don't have any of those. That's exciting, right? We don't have anything. NURNEY: I might be confused and what does that mean if I bought this first my first time out there alternate access? I don't know just the thought. I don't feel strongly about it. WILLARD: I kind of like that Steve. HOLDEN: But why won't we identify the Western Trail there? I mean, we did it at the beginning of the Overlook, we say Ridgeline, Overlook to Ridgeline. Why wouldn't we? GRZYBOWSKI: I think we are saying that. HOLDEN: I don't know it says alternate access to Andrews Kinsey Trail it doesn't say Western Trail. GRZYBOWSKI: It’s placed at the beginning of the Western Trail is another sign that the Western Trail beginning. There will be two signs on that post. SNIPES: So, one will say Western Trail and the other one will say access to. IRWIN: I don't think that was the original intent was it Bill? CRAIG: I'm confused. At this spot on the Promenade the old access, just put something like Andrew's Kinsey Trail however many yards. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, but isn't that also access to the Western Trail? CRAIG: So, put that also, Western Trail so many yards. GRZYBOWSKI: That's just two sides. WILLARD: Once you go down that path you got to go back to the sign that's replacing the bike path. I mean the current proposal says Andrew Kinsey's Trail. So now what we're saying to be consistent logic, this has to say Andrews Kinsey Trail and also then to the Western Trail. GRZYBOWSKI: Correct? Yes. CRAIG: So, a second sign there? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I think so. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 14 - WILLARD: Either that or one bigger sign. CRAIG: All right, then the Western Trail, eliminate the Western Loop signs, over time emergency markers at the beginning of the Western Trail. On the Western Trail itself, like eight feet up or so the larger sign with the information regarding the Western Trail. Then, at the end, where it comes back down, a sign saying Western Trail. But as DJ is saying do we need anything else other than that added sign at the beginning of the Andrews Kinsey Trail, which will say to the Western Trail? Or should we put how many yards, Quarter Mile, half mile? IRWIN: I think we should be consistent. So, if we're going to have a sign on the Promenade that says to Andrew Kinsey and Western, then down at the other one, we have the same. GRZYBOWSKI: Correct. It's hard for me to visualize without seeing the pictures, right? IRWIN: Yeah, but I don't think we want to start adding 500 yards here and there. I think two is better. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I think just be consistent. CRAIG: No, yardage then. GRZYBOWSKI: Correct. Not at this point. CRAIG: Other questions? GRZYBOWSKI: Nope. CRAIG: I'll run this by Kevin and then over to Kenny V. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, we should be ready to put them up at the beginning of the year. HOLDEN: Do we need to see them again? Like when you do send them out? Just the final? Are you good with that? GRZYBOWSKI: I don't care. Yeah, just send them via email. Yep. Okay. IRWIN: And are you okay with this Bill? Are you okay with this? Yeah. Okay. CRAIG: Usually, it comes back to me, and Kenny and I do it. And I don't know whether you need to look at it unless you want to. SNIPES: I think if you and Kenny and I agree. I mean, we hear what's here. And so, if we're on the same page here, then we'll just roll with what kind of what's being said. CRAIG: Thank you. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. That brings us up to Item Number 10 - Update on the Trail Counters. Any discussion on that? The numbers went way down, of course, because it's now hot. As we expected. SNIPES: It's so interesting because almost everyone is half. GRZYBOWSKI: I noticed that yeah. I looked at it. HOLDEN: I did have something I wanted to consider or raise. And that is that kind of nowhere on that chart. And it's an issue that I've always had with this chart is that we don't actually have and I think it was Bob's article in Fountain Hills that really made it very evident is that nowhere do we report how many visitors we have to Preserve, to the Botanical Garden. The Botanical Garden is easy because the number that you see is the number of visitors. That's nice I mean, they go in and out, but that's half. and so that's easy but we don't actually say that anywhere. And it certainly looks like we've got a heck of a lot more people visiting than the actual number, which is really only measurable pretty much by the number of passes through the gate and you take half of that. So that's almost 30,000 so you would say we had 15,000. Nowhere do we actually say that, and I'm wondering if that would be an additional chart or something somewhere because I think it could be useful just for the information in itself. And I did check with Scottsdale who report 845,000 visitors and they do it because they don't have a gate. They MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 15 - have 10 or 12 trailheads. They do it actually with a multiplier for the cars because they do measure the cars. So they say 1.4 is the factor they use cars times the number gives you the number of people. CRAIG: What do they do about cars going in and out? HOLDEN: Well, I guess they take half or whatever as well. GRZYBOWSKI: Do they just drive in, look around, and get back out? HOLDEN: Well, we don't know, either. So, we have to assume it's not an accurate number, but it's an estimated number. And the 1.4 I said “Well, well I said where did you get the 1.4 and nobody could really answer that. CRAIG: They did some research on it. Right? nationally. Right? HOLDEN: I think our taking our gate number in half is far more realistic as far as what we do and how we support it. So, I'm wondering what you think about having either a separate chart or something to report because you know, I like to continue to keep the trail numbers, I think, even though they're not trails, of course, because their trails are grouped together because of where the trackers are. But those are good because I think we should be looking at those this year over last year. And that would be an indication of maybe how many hosts for a trail or how much work on a trail. I don't know, I mean, you know, better by looking at how much work needs to be done. But it's still helpful information. But I would like to recommend that we consider doing it, I'm not changing it, I'm maybe adding another chart that just gives us the total number of visitors, which also again to Bob's point includes bikes, probably that pass through the gates. And the number of people that come in one way and go out Sunrise or go out Golden Eagle doesn't really matter. It's just an estimated number, but probably as close and as simple as we can get it. SNIPES: So, one other thing is that I have made a purchase of several of the newer style counters, which is going to make a drastic difference in our ability to track direction. Bike versus hiker versus car. And so, a couple of things that that we've been asked to do that I want to use some of the counters for is finding out exactly how many cars we have in at Adero. So, if we put one on the inlet one on the outlet, we can see time. I don't have all the information on what the counters are able to do down to the exact thing. But I'm fairly confident that these will be able to get us where we can see what time and how many went by for this hour, for this hour, for this hour, and then how many came out and then subtract the two and we should be able to see exact numbers of what is in the parking lot at any given time. So, I think that'll be very helpful for us as we get them. So as soon as I get them in, they should be coming in this week. And so, then we can dial in some way. Just doing the research of figuring out what they were able to do I know that was in the conversation of what they can do. Now it's just a matter of figuring out how to program and set them up to do that for us. CRAIG: Have you purchased the software to go along with that? SNIPES: They set up a package for us to send down to us and so basically a starter package Yeah. GRZYBOWSKI: The benefit is there should be no more humans needed to read these. I don't know if we paid for a full year of the online software, but he'll be able to go in and look up everything online. So, to the cloud. Yeah, that's the goal. SNIPES: Well, anything that we need to add to it will be in the new budget. I bought these because it was at the end of the budget year and we had some funding left. And so I grabbed a few and said we can we can test them out. I didn't want to buy all of them because I, I want to test them and see if they're Arizona tough or if they're Maine tough. So as soon as we figured out that we like them, then I'm more than happy to get more. And we are budgeted so that we can get more as we go forward. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 16 - HOLDEN: Okay, that's great. So, is there any objection to just starting a second? I mean, I wouldn't touch this one because I like I mean, we're used to this and it's tracking information that we've been tracking. If we just added a separate chart below it that has the count for Botanical Garden and, the passes through the visitors is what we call them, which includes everything, and doesn't matter really whatever gets counted. GRZYBOWSKI: Who set that up for you Patti? HOLDEN: We do the Conservancy. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I don't have an objection. HOLDEN: Great. SNIPES: Did notice that whenever Larry does it, it's a lot more people. Then as soon as Steve took over, it's like, everybody ran away. HOLDEN: I'll let Steve know. GRZYBOWSKI: Alright, great. Then let's move on to Item Number 11 Update from the Sonoran Conservancy. This brings us back to Janice or Bill are there any updates? HOLDEN: Not that much. What did I have? I guess I think we reported everything in our last meeting with you had all that information. So now we've put together we had a summer event. We have two summer events up at night at the trailhead, and the first one was on Friday, and was successful. We had a lot of people show up, and I didn't think they were anybody here. So we had 20 people and they all showed up and it was a lot of fun. We looked at Scorpius, the constellation and scorpions, which was the most fun part because kids came, and their parents took care of them. But we did it all in the parking lot and at the trailhead, so we didn't go out on a trail, it was a lot of fun. And we've got another one on the Milky Way coming up in September. It's hot up there, but it's okay. It's still really fun. And it was good. No, I don't think can't even read my own handwriting. So, I guess the answer is no. No, no, we're good. GRZYBOWSKI: All right. So, we combined Item 10 and Item 12, when we're talking about trail counters, so if there's any, if there's no further discussion on Item 10 or 12, trail counters, we could just move on to Item Number 13 Future Agenda Items. So, the only two I can think of right now are the Update about the MMPC Scope Working Group and Discussion about the NNIP Working Group. So, we need to start discussing that next meeting. How do we want to move forward, who wants to be in the workgroup? Those are the only two I can think of that are needed. HOLDEN: Just a reminder since we were talking about the parking lot is that there is a working group, once the, to determine whether or not we have a problem in the parking lot and what we should do about it to make a recommendation. Once we can get this thing installed, that working group can take a look at those numbers. SNIPES: Yeah, what I'd like to do is once we get them in, we can get them up there and do some practice studies on it and see how it works, in the summer. And then when we get serious about the counts being necessary, we'll be ready for it. So, it'll give us a while to do some test runs on it. HOLDEN: Great. GRZYBOWSKI: That'd be great because then we can now have a little better data and we can make a decision Oh, we counter the car going through and then we need to use the 1.4 or not, or, oh, that was a bicycle that rode through. So that's great. We got one number it's a bike ride so good. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 17 - SNIPES: Well, if we're able to stack them which I don't know if we can, but we might be able to get closer information on that by how many cars came in versus how many people went through the first ticker through the gate. And then that'll give us some interesting numbers as well. GRZYBOWSKI: Because we do have the Adero Canyon van as well. Right? SNIPES: Right, it makes a difference. Correct we will use 1.45. IRWIN: So, Kevin, when do we get those Did you say SNIPES: Should be in hopefully this week. IRWIN: And so, we'll be able to start having information probably in July or August? SNIPES: Yeah, I hope so. I hope to get it out there sometime in July. CRAIG: Um, you're going to install them? SNIPES: Sure, why not? I mean, for the parking lot side for sure. Because I want to mess with them a little bit and see how they function and what they do. And then we can get together and… GRZYBOWSKI: We have three coming in. So, the two, you got to put right away on the parking lot. And we'll decide what we want to do with the third one. SNIPES: Yeah. Well, and if I can, because I think this is going on in memory. That's been back a little bit, but I think it does directional as well. So, it might be a single one that can check both directions. And be able to tell you that one, that five went this way, and one went this way. And then you can look at the timestamp and be able to figure out how many… GRZYBOWSKI: I think so when we did that research. That's been a while, but I think you're right. SNIPES: So excellent. Two half brains. We got this. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, so Item Number 14, Update on our Next MMPC Meeting Scheduled for September 26. So, we do have a two-month break. Right, lovely summertime, and I Motion to Adjourn. CRAIG: Item 13 yet. GRZYBOWSKI: Do you want to add something? CRAIG: This is probably more Conservancy than us. But I need help getting two toolboxes up to their respective places in the Preserve. GRZYBOWSKI: Right, right. MCSO already shot us down. Yeah, have no control over the helicopter. They won't help. CRAIG: Does anybody have suggestions on whether Scottsdale or somebody has one of those single- wheel wheelbarrow-type things that we can have? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, we'll put that on the agenda item, Discussion on Moving Toolboxes. We can think about it over the summer. CRAIG: Yeah, well, any help I can get. SNIPES: I mean, we could certainly ATV them up to a certain point and then figure out what we do from there because we could take our mule. That's a four-wheel drive mule, and it would fit in the bed of the big one to get it out a certain distance but then want to do something more manual to get it up there. GRZYBOWSKI: Well, we do have a few newer younger volunteers on the Trailblazers. So, we have to start coordinating that. HOLDEN: Well, but this is not something people can move, right? Even if you had a lot of people? GRZYBOWSKI: You could do four-person lifts or per you could Yeah. Person MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 18 - minimum for probably Yeah. A couple of good moving straps. We're good. We got it. Okay, so do we have a second on the Adjournment if we ever get there? NURNEY: Second GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor to adjourn? ALL: Aye. Motion Passed 7-0 GRZYBOWSKI: Adjourned at 1803 (6:03 pm) Having no further business, Chair Grzybowski adjourned the Regular Meeting of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission on May 23, 2023, at 6:03 PM MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION _______________________________________________________________ Scott Grzybowski, Chair ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: _______________________________________________ Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 27th day of June 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 26th day of September 2023 ______________________________________________________ MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION JUNE 27, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 19 - Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant ITEM 6. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Appointment of MMPC Commission Chair Staff Summary (Background) Per Town Code: Members of each board and commission shall elect a chair and vice chair from among its own members. Each chair and vice chair shall serve for one year and until such time as a successor is elected. The chair shall preside at all meetings and exercise all the usual rights, duties, and prerogatives of the head of any similar organization. The vice chair shall perform the duties of the chair in the chair’s absence or disability. Vacancies created by any cause shall be filled for the unexpired term by a new election. (19-15, Added, 09/03/2019) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/29/2023 03:25 PM Final Approval Date: 08/29/2023 ITEM 7. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Appointment of MMPC Commission Vice Chair Staff Summary (Background) Per Town Code: Members of each board and commission shall elect a chair and vice chair from among its own members. Each chair and vice chair shall serve for one year and until such time as a successor is elected. The chair shall preside at all meetings and exercise all the usual rights, duties, and prerogatives of the head of any similar organization. The vice chair shall perform the duties of the chair in the chair’s absence or disability. Vacancies created by any cause shall be filled for the unexpired term by a new election. (19-15, Added, 09/03/2019) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/29/2023 03:28 PM Final Approval Date: 08/29/2023 ITEM 8. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: MMPC Scope of Charter Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/08/2023 12:26 PM Final Approval Date: 08/08/2023 ITEM 9. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: MMPC 2024 Meeting Dates Staff Summary (Background) Attachments MMPC Meeting 2024 Meeting Dates Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 09/19/2023 04:28 PM Final Approval Date: 09/19/2023 9/19/2023 McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (MMPC) 2024 Meeting Dates 4th Tuesday at 5:00 p.m. January 23 February 27 March 26 April 23 May 28 June 25 July – No Meeting Scheduled August – No Meeting Scheduled September 24 October 22 November 26 December – No Meeting Scheduled ITEM 10. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Non-Native Invasive Plant (NNIP) Working Group Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/10/2023 04:24 PM Final Approval Date: 08/10/2023 ITEM 11. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Moving Toolboxes Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/10/2023 04:32 PM Final Approval Date: 08/10/2023 ITEM 12. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Volunteer Waiver Staff Summary (Background) Attachments SCFH Volunteer Waiver and Release Town of Fountain Hills Volunteer Waiver Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/29/2023 11:43 AM Final Approval Date: 08/29/2023 08/14/21 SONORAN CONSERVANCY OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Volunteer Waiver and Release Agreement I am VOLUNTEERING for the Sonoran Conservancy of Fountain Hills* (“SCFH”) and the Town of Fountain Hills. I have completed and signed a Volunteer Application with the Town of Fountain Hills, dated ______________________. In that application, I agreed to a Waiver and Release of All Claims and an Assumption of Risk and Waiver of Liability Relating to Coronavirus/Covid 19 (“Waiver and Release”). I agree that the terms of the Waiver and Release apply to the SCFH, SCFH Board Members and Officers, and any other person involved with me on a particular SCFH or Town of Fountain Hills activity or project for which I am volunteering. I wish to volunteer as a (insert trailblazer, host, steward, Botanical Garden, etc.) _________________________________________________________________ _________________________________________________________________ PRINTED NAME _________________________________________________________________ SIGNATURE _________________________________________________________________ DATE _________________________________________________________________ ADDRESS _________________________________________________________________ EMAIL _________________________________________________________________ PHONE (CELL AND HOME) _________________________________________________________________ EMERGENCY CONTACT (NAME AND PHONE) *THE FOUNTAIN HILLS NATURAL DESERT BOTANICAL GARDEN OPERATES UNDER THE UMBRELLA OF THE SONORAN CONSERVANCY OF FOUNTAIN HILLS AND IS INCLUDED IN THIS VOLUNTEER WAIVER AND RELEASE AGREEMENT. ITEM 13. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Fountain Hills Trail System Designated as National Recreational Trails by the Secretary of the Interior Staff Summary (Background) Benefits of NRT Designation National Recreation Trails benefit from the prestige and increased visibility of being a part of the National Trails System. New designations are announced annually by the Secretary of Interior and recognized every two years at the National Trails Symposium. Other national publicity includes such events as the annual NRT Photo Contest, sponsored by American Trails, which has attracted hundreds of entries from across the country. Successful applicants receive a letter and certificate, designating their trail as an NRT. Trail managers are entitled to use the NRT logo in appropriate settings and trail publications. Plastic NRT logo signs (3.5” x 3.5” small or 8” x 8” large) are also available free of charge (thanks to generous funding from the National Park Service) and shipping is complimentary. Plastic signs can be obtained by filling out this form and emailing to nrt@americantrails.org. You may also choose to purchase metal signs for a nominal fee via the American Trails Online Store. Before signs are shipped, American Trails will confirm your trails are designated NRTs. Successful National Water Trails also receive a letter and a certificate, but they are entitled to use the NWTS logo and signs in appropriate settings and trail publications. Promotion of Your Trail All NRTs will be included in the online searchable database of trails (sponsored by www.AmericanTrails.org) includes descriptive information, maps, and pictures for trail users. Trail managers provide information about their NRTs for the site. Keep it up to date by sending corrections and additions by e-mail to nrt@americantrails.org. A web page for each state highlights Featured Trails with links to more information. For trails without a website, we are providing a page with photos, history, and useful facts about the project. Other Benefits Include: Access to technical assistance from NRT Program partners. Periodic electronic newsletters with program updates, newsworthy activities, technical information, and innovative solutions to trail issues from around the country. Access to an e-mail news group for NRT managers only to receive updates on funding, resources, and technical assistance opportunities. Access to networking and training opportunities. Assistance with recognition and special events highlighting the trail. Trail markers with the NRT logo for your trail: order signs online from the American Trails Store Letters of support for fundraising and trail protection efforts. Some state funding programs also consider NRT designation in allocating Recreational Trails Program, Transportation Enhancements, and other funding administered through the U.S. Department of Transportation's Federal Highway Administration. Access to update online trail information in the online NRT database https://www.nrtapplication.org/pages/benefits-of-nrt-designation Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 09/19/2023 05:24 PM Final Approval Date: 09/19/2023 ITEM 14. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): UPDATE: Installation of New Trail Counters Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/08/2023 12:46 PM Final Approval Date: 08/08/2023 ITEM 15. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): UPDATE: Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Liaison Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/08/2023 12:27 PM Final Approval Date: 08/08/2023 ITEM 16. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): UPDATE: Trail Counter Activity Staff Summary (Background) Steve Ehrlich provided the Trail Counter Activity data for 2022 up to June 2023. He notes that in the future, we may have an additional version that converts the trail counter to actual hikers crossing the beam. In most cases, it would be as simple as dividing the count by two except on the Lake Overlook Trail. Due to the heat, the A-K/WL was not read. All others are of the actual readings on July 1, 2023. Attachments Monthly Trail Activity 2022 - June 2023 Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/08/2023 12:27 PM Final Approval Date: 08/08/2023 Counter read out 2022Botanical Garden Lake Overlook A-K/WL Overlook/Ridgeline ACT / Promenade January 1,924 7,664 3,545 3,842 13,118 February 1,691 7,251 3,963 4,569 14,349 March 2,076 8,505 4,191 5,690 16,175 April 1,245 5,160 2,715 3,568 9,388 May 758 3,231 1,698 2,101 5,871 June 518 1,890 823 1,022 2,839 July 438 1623 650 807 2,243 August 400 1,880 1,031 858 2,591 September 483 1,736 1,235 1,189 3,454 October 946 2,213 2,102 2,429 7,008 November 1,250 6,364 3,072 3,211 10,240 December 1,189 5,330 5,233 2,184 9,355 YTD 12,918 52,847 30,258 31,470 96,631 Counter read out 2023 Botanical Garden Lake Overlook A-K/WL Overlook/Ridgeline ACT / Promenade January 1,606 7,320 4,123 2,814 12,997 February 1,487 7,121 4,367 4,045 13,140 March 2,499 9,377 4,770 9,325 17,440 April 1,574 6,175 3,033 4,277 10,836 May 660 3,308 2,454 1,741 5,045 June 556 2,420 1,156 3,108 July August September October November December 8,382 35,721 18,747 23,358 62,566 Will update in the fall 1 ACT/ Parking Total 13,498 43,591 11,956 43,779 12,328 48,965 7,518 29,594 5,795 19,454 3,009 10,101 2,500 8,261 3,075 9,835 3,783 11,880 5,974 20,672 7,819 31,956 6,078 29,369 83,333 ACT/ Parking Total 9,621 38,481 Larry 12,735 42,895 Larry 14,439 81,376 Larry 11,911 37,806 Larry 5,102 18,310 Steve 3,075 Steve Steve Steve Steve Steve Larry Larry 56,883 Totals 2 ITEM 17. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): UPDATE: Future Agenda Items Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/08/2023 12:29 PM Final Approval Date: 08/08/2023 ITEM 18. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT Meeting Date: 09/26/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type: Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Interim Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language): UPDATE: Next MMPC Meeting October 24, 2023 Staff Summary (Background) Inclusion of agenda items and attachments for the October 24, 2023 meeting is due no later than October 10, 2023. Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 08/08/2023 12:30 PM Final Approval Date: 08/08/2023