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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAGENDApacket__11-28-23_0252_553       NOTICE OF MEETING REGULAR MEETING MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION      Chairman Scott Grzybowski  Vice Chairman Steve Nurney Commissioner Bill Craig Commissioner Janice Holden Commissioner Sherry Irwin Commissioner Brian Jennings Commissioner D.J. Willard      TIME:5:00 P.M. – REGULAR MEETING WHEN:TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 28, 2023 WHERE:FOUNTAIN HILLS COUNCIL CHAMBERS 16705 E. AVENUE OF THE FOUNTAINS, FOUNTAIN HILLS, AZ Commissioners of the Town of Fountain Hills will attend either in person or by telephone conference call; a quorum of the Town’s Council,  various Commission, Committee or Board members may be in attendance at the Commission meeting. Notice is hereby given that pursuant to A.R.S. §1-602.A.9, subject to certain specified statutory exceptions, parents have a right to consent before the State or any of its political subdivisions make a video or audio recording of a minor child. Meetings of the Commission are audio and/or video recorded and, as a result, proceedings in which children are present may be subject to such recording. Parents, in order to exercise their rights may either file written consent with the Town Clerk to such recording, or take personal action to ensure that their child or children are not present when a recording may be made. If a child is present at the time a recording is made, the Town will assume that the rights afforded parents pursuant to A.R.S. §1-602.A.9 have been waived.  REQUEST TO COMMENT The public is welcome to participate in Commission meetings. TO SPEAK TO AN AGENDA ITEM, please complete a Request to Comment card, located in the back of the Council Chambers, and hand it to the Executive Assistant prior to discussion of that item, if possible. Include the agenda item on which you wish to comment. Speakers will be allowed three contiguous minutes to address the Commission. Verbal comments should be directed through the Presiding Officer and not to individual Commissioners. TO COMMENT ON AN AGENDA ITEM IN WRITING ONLY, please complete a Request to Comment card, indicating it is a written comment, and check the box on whether you are FOR or AGAINST and agenda item, and hand it to the Executive Assistant prior to discussion, if possible.               1.CALL TO ORDER - Chair Grzybowski     2.ROLL CALL     3.REPORTS BY COMMISSIONERS     4.CALL TO THE PUBLIC Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (not required) on matters NOT listed on the agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction of the Commission, and (ii) is subject to reasonable time, place, and manner restrictions. The Commission will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised during Call to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed for discussion and legal action. At the conclusion of the Call to the Public, individual commissioners may (i) respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to review a matter, or (iii) ask that the matter be placed on a future Commission agenda.     5.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission September 26, 2023 Verbatim Minutes     6.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission October 24, 2023 Verbatim Minutes     7.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Community Services Strategic Plan 2024-2027     8.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Sunsetting the MMPC     9.CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Naming of Two Recently Approved Trails     10.UPDATE AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Fountain Hills Trail System Designation as National Recreational Trails by the Secretary of the Interior     11.UPDATE: Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Liaison     12.UPDATE: Stayloc Installation at Entryway     13.UPDATE: Installation of  New Trail Counters     14.UPDATE: Trail Counter Activity     15.UPDATE: Future Agenda Items     16.UPDATE: Next MMPC Meeting January 22, 2024        McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Meeting of November 28, 2023 2 of 3 17.ADJOURNMENT     CERTIFICATE OF POSTING OF NOTICE The undersigned hereby certifies that a copy of the foregoing notice was duly posted in accordance with the statement filed by the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission with the Town Clerk. Dated this 22nd day of November, 2023 ___________________________________________ Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant   The Town of Fountain Hills endeavors to make all public meetings accessible to persons with disabilities. Please call 480-816-5199 (voice) or 1-800-367-8939 (TDD) 48 hours prior to the meeting to request a reasonable accommodation to participate in the meeting or to obtain agenda information in large print format. Supporting documentation and staff reports furnished the Commission with this agenda are available for review in the Community Services' Office.    McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Meeting of November 28, 2023 3 of 3 ITEM 3. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  REPORTS BY COMMISSIONERS Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:19 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  ITEM 5. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):   CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission September 26, 2023 Verbatim Minutes Staff Summary (Background) The intent of approving meeting minutes is to ensure an accurate account of the discussion and action that took place at the meeting for archival purposes. Approved minutes are placed on the town's website and maintained as permanent records in compliance with state law. Attachments MMPC September 26, 2023 Meeting Verbatim Minutes  Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:21 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 1 - Post-Production File TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES Transcription Provided By: https://Otter.ai ********* Transcription is provided to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 2 - TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023 A Regular Meeting of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:00 p.m. Members Present: Chair Scott Grzybowski; Vice Chair Steven Nurney; Commissioner Bill Craig; Commissioner Janice Holden; Commissioner Sherry Irwin; Commissioner Brian Jennings (Called In); Commissioner DJ Willard Staff Present: Interim Community Services Director Kevin Snipes; Executive Assistant Patti Lopuszanski Audience: None MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 3 - GRZYBOWSKI: We're calling the MMPC Regular Meeting to order at 1700 on Wednesday, the 26th of September. So again, to remind everybody before Roll Call that Brian is on the phone, so we need to turn our mics on and speak. So, with that, let's do Roll Call. LOPUSZANSKI: Chairman Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Vice Chair Nurney? NURNEY: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Craig? CRAIG: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Holden? HOLDEN: Here LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Irwin? IRWIN: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Jennings? JENNINGS: You bet. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Willard? WILLARD: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Thank you. GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Thank you. Item number 3. Reports by Commissioners. Did anybody do anything exciting this summer that you would like to report on? Okay, Item number 4. Call the Public. LOPUSZANSKI: No Call to the Public. GRZYBOWSKI: This brings us to Item number 5. Consideration of and Possible Action the Approval of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission June 27, 2023, Verbatim Minutes. Again, they are verbatim minutes, and I had no concern with that. If no one else does. Can we get a motion to approve? WILLARD: So, move. HOLDEN: Second. GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor? ALL: Aye. GRZYBOWSKI: Any opposed? No. GRZYBOWSKI: Motion Carries 7-0. This brings us to Item number 6. Consideration and Possible Action for the Appointment of the MMPC Commission Chair. So, I saw these items six and seven on here. Do we need to vote on this or are we going to wait till new appointments? LOPUSZANSKI: We don't have any new appointments. Everyone wanted to be reappointed if they were up for their term, so this would be the time since we're a little bit behind in voting for a new term for the Chair and Vice Chair. Again, it opens it up for discussion of which way you want to go. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. So yeah, that brings up a discussion then. I'm fine with staying as the MMPC Chair, but if anybody would like to throw their name in the ring, please say so. Anybody? So, do we need to? Okay, so then I make a motion that I stay appointed as the commission chair. CRAIG: I second that motion. GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor? ALL: Aye. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 4 - GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Any opposed? Motion Carries 7-0. That brings us to Item number 7 Consideration and Possible Action for the Appointment of the MMPC Vice Chair, which is Steve... NURNEY: I'm fine as well, when I saw this on the agenda, I was concerned that you were giving up and I was going to be left holding the bag here. I'm fine staying as Vice Chairman, but I'm also fine if someone else wants to step in. GRZYBOWSKI: Does anybody else want to nominate anyone? CRAIG: Second. GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor of Steve staying as the Vice Chair? ALL: Aye. GRZYBOWSKI: Any opposed? No. (Motion carries 7-0) Thank you, Brian. Okay, that brings us to Item number 8, Consideration and Possible Action of the MMPC Scope of Charter. I'll start with that and Janice, and Steve, if you want to pipe in, but the working group met, which is myself, Janice, and Steve. We met just a few weeks ago to discuss the scope of the charter. So, a couple of things came out of this one, let me see if I could find my notes quick. I always like to be prepared. But in general, the consensus we had as a working group, and this could be a discussion item of course, our feeling is that the MMPC has done everything it has set out to do from the beginning and we were okay to sunset, the MMPC as a commission. And here's why. So, I'll give you some background on that. So if you think about it, as we discussed the last time, there are a couple of things we could do. We could change the charter, we could sunset it, and maybe create a new commission. But the bottom line is what we were thinking of is that we have accomplished everything we said I think the number one priority for the MMPC was to get the Adero Canyon Trailhead built working with Toll Brothers to get all that done. That has been accomplished, super excited about that. We built and documented the Guidelines for the Preserve, mostly DJ was kind of this spirit on that which is great. We built the Masters Trail Plan which is good for 10 years in conjunction or in alignment with the Strategic Plan of the parks and recreation. We've got three new trails that which is part of our Trails Master Plan approved, which is already moving forward. And ultimately, if you think about how, today the MMPC in our mind is kind of an impediment to getting things done. Right? So, if you think about how the Sonoran Conservancy works with the trailblazer, right, the Sonora Conservancy, is in a perfect place, to actually work directly with Community Services and Parks and Rec. Right. So, do we need a commission to talk about signs? Do we need a commission to change rules and regulations? And our thinking was that? No. So that's my thoughts on this. Janice, Steve, any other thoughts? HOLDEN: Well, I mean, I think what we, so we went through a number of different areas that we could participate in or that we could approach or work on. And I think there was nothing that we came up with, that the Conservancy couldn't do, if not as well, better, because we're not restricted by the Open Meeting Rules. We do the work so we do know what's going on. On the conservancy side, the majority of us here are conservancy volunteers. And I think part of the truth is, that everybody on the commission joined this commission because they wanted to be involved in what happens in our Preserve. But you can be so much more involved as a trailblazer or a host, or a steward as part of the Conservancy than we can sitting up here, which is really kind of like everybody likes to get their hands dirty and get involved and this isn't as good an opportunity. So, to Scott's point, I mean, everything that we have accomplished, since, you know, opening the trailhead, the Conservancy could have done as well. And most of it was done by the Conservancy and the Trailblazers. So, I guess that was kind of MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 5 - really where we came up with not being able to come up with anything additional that we could add value by maintaining the commission. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, and we were discussing that, you know, we have the Community Service Advisory Commission, right? So if we were to agree that this should be sunset, and the staff agrees, and if the Council has to agree, right, the somebody that may not want to may want to continue on a commission or a board, they can go to Sonoran Conservancy, join that board, they can join one of the community service or one of the other commission's, I'm thinking, of course, Community Services, because that also deals with Parks and Rec and Community Services. And if that is the case, we may want to put in, you know, a word or language that says, you know, maybe if there's one of us that wants to move to one of those commissions, we would have priority, maybe we don't, because we're already vetted. You know, I don't even know if we need wording. But the point was that hey, well, if one of us wants to jump over to one of those commissions, and there's an opening, we're already vetted. We're already commissioners, maybe we could just slide in there, as some of the thoughts. WILLARD: I've got a couple of thoughts. One is I essentially agree with your recommendation. But there's a process question in terms of, we didn't create our own Commission, the town council created the commission. So, I mean, all we can do as a commission is recommended, right? So, there's a process issue of how you go down that path. The one thing and rather than, say disband, I would prefer to say fold into the Community Service Advisory Commission so that we still have a commission out there, even if there's only a part of the Community Services Commission worried about the Preserve, at least someone on a commission has agreed, yeah, a preserve. So, I wouldn't rather than say disband, I would prefer to save, and recommend we fold it into Community Services Advisory. GRZYBOWSKI: And that's it. Yeah, that's what we had said earlier. It makes perfect sense to make sure that CSAC has either we make sure that gets added to their charter, you know, and we get a board member to or commission member, but yeah, agreed. NURNEY: Right. So just to clarify, you're not suggesting that we all become part of the community services. WILLARD: No, not to say that the responsibility for the preserve gets, right. Yeah, good clarification. SNIPES: So, one thing that we could do is, if one or two of you wanted to join CSAC, we could expand that number for a period of time until we drop members. Then it would drop back down to seven, eventually. But we could add to that committee for a period of time until that becomes, we've done that before with other committees. That way, the voice is still there. And I'd be more than willing to lead that charge of having that angle on it. I think that would be good. If there's interest in doing that, that would be fine as well. NURNEY: So, Kevin, I guess we would ask you, and I think you and Scott already had this conversation. But from your perspective, we're not giving anything up significantly by taking this approach. As far as the town is concerned. SNIPES: Well, I think this was the original thought process was that this commission was geared toward getting it built. And then it was set up to sunset, I think it made sense to continue until we kind of got this finalized version that you guys came up with last year. And we're built out now it's maintaining, and now it's boots on the ground, so to speak, which I think Janice brought up earlier that's what the Sonoran Conservancy does. What I would recommend is when, if this is the direction that we go, then having CSAC involved, and then I would think it would be good to have a quarterly debrief from the MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 6 - Sonoran Conservancy to CSAC. So that then we can get that information documented in minutes as well. And then we can see the direction that we're going, what we're doing, and we can have those discussions still. And as you know, I'm always available. So anytime that there was a question, we could do one-off meetings, I'm happy to do that. But as far as the big picture goes, having, I think, quarterly would be often enough. And not too often, if I'm open to other suggestions, if it's three times a year, because of the summer and you know, all of that being less active times, that's fine. But I think three or four would be a good number to report in and make sure that everybody's still on the same page. CRAIG: A number of things are going through my mind; I hadn't really realized we were approaching this at this time. We are primarily supposed to be giving advice to the Council. I don't know that much gets to the Council from us. We had been trying for years to get on and have the meeting with the Council and maybe five years ago, we had a joint meeting. Another thing I think in terms of Trailblazers, would I have any less contact with Kevin as being just Conservancy, as opposed to here? I mean, you've been so good in terms of contact and talking through problems. What about things like the toolboxes that we still have to deal with? Would that be something we'd push through CSAC? GRZYBOWSKI: To me that could be that could be the Trailblazers directly to the Parks and Rec. We don't really need the commission for that type of that's really adding. SNIPES: Yeah, those day-to-day things. Like I was saying, I'm always open to it’s not like there's hostility between us at all. I've thoroughly enjoyed everything that we've done together and we'll continue to do it'll just it the biggest thing that will be different will be that we won't have it this way. We'll get it a different way. And like I said, anytime anything comes up I'm always available on weekends and weeknights, I answer my phone. That's what I do. I you know it I know what value the Sonoran Conservancy is, and what this commission has been in, and that that doesn't change. It just gets modified, you know, that appreciation is still there and we'll still continue to be team members on what we're doing as far as taking care of the preserve and making sure that we're all on the same page as far as doing that. And if something needs to go to Council, the Sonoran Conservancy is more than welcome to come in and do that and I can help schedule that and set that up as well if we need to do that, or whoever's in my position that I'm in right now. So, depending on how that is, that's certainly something that's not hard to continue to set up the meeting side of getting your voice heard, to the Council, when need be, and to the Community Services Department anytime need be. CRAIG: Yeah. And I think because we have worked and the personnel is what it is, and we have worked very well together. Do we need to have anything else on paper such that you leave or if leave or the Conservancy has changes? SNIPES: I think, that's part of where the report back and forth between the CSAC so that they'll still be a connection to a committee that can go on behalf of in front of counsel as well, if that's determined to be the better route angle to take. And that way, they'll continue to be an update, we'll continue to have minutes that we'll be recording the information that's shared, to where the Sonoran Conservancy doesn't get lost in the shuffle, which would be horrible if that ever were to occur. But that would link those two together, to make sure that information was still being shared, so that it wouldn't happen, regardless of who was in my seat, your seat all of your seats, it would be a mandatory report on every so often to where that would be shared through a committee. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 7 - GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, if you think about the CSAC today, they already are concerned about the trails and the connectors and, you know, Community Services and fitness in the community where we've always had the problem here, we're like, well, we don't do the Overlook Trail, we don't do the Botanical Garden as the MMPC can be very limited. It just makes sense. And I love Kevin's idea that maybe if there's some of us that want to join that two of us that'll join that for a year or so we become part of the CSAC. And then three times a year, we have Sonoran Conservancy come do a liaison presentation to the commission to make sure it stays connected. And the other thing I did do some research. I mean, I've been here six years, I think on this, we've been in front of the Town Council three times the only other commission that's ever been in front of the Town Council that much is the spec, which is the planning. Now the Strategic Planning. So the other Commission's Planning and Zoning sees it, they don't come in from the council. It's nerve-racking, it'll do that. We've had a lot of FaceTime with the council. So, I think we've done a good job. But just I don't feel we really need this commission. CRAIG: And the other thing that I think needs to be looked at and determined is finances. You know, we don't have a budget, it's a little bit taken here or there. And when I've asked, where's the funds come from, well, a little bit here. And I would like to make sure that if there are tools that are necessary if there is signage, whatever, that will still be available. SNIPES: So I'll say the way that the budget is done for me, it's for PR trails, what is what the account is that everything comes out of the that we buy tools or signs or anything else that goes into our trails or our trailheads. We do have a budget and it does have line items for tools and things like that. The line items to me mean less than the overall and so if I need this year, I need more tools, and next year, I need more signs, then that money shifts around it's very simple to do to make sure that we get the things that we need within our trail system to make sure that we're taking care of it. The same thing with our parks where some years vandalisms up some years it's down so that money has to you know it has to be taken care of so it gets taken care of And then it's given take from other parts of that same budget. NURNEY: But I guess it's maybe it's covered, but most of those requests are coming from your role as a trailblazer not as a commissioner, right? WILLARD: It’s kind of been…. SNIPES: Yeah, it's all blended together. And that's part of the thing that this will help clear up is that there won't be a blended, it'll be a very defined collaboration between us were in and frankly, the way that it's working right now, there's been several times where we'll, we can't have too many people, or we'll hit quorum. And then next thing, you know, we're in trouble and Linda’s coming down and giving speeches and telling us that we can't send emails, and it eliminates all of those issues and makes it to where they can be done in group fashion. And, and I'm happy if it goes, however, we want to go with it. But I see the value of it being split off and being set up to where it can be… It's the same voice between the Sonoran Conservancy and the group that's here, so it'll just make it to where that's coming from a different angle, but it's coming to the same people, it's still going to be going through the Community Services and like I said, we can write it up. And what I would say is, when if, if it does go, we're where we sunset, you guys write something up, send it to Mayor, Council, myself, and Linda, as well as Patti. And that way our Town Clerk has it too, and then just stating the things that we discussed here today. And I think that that should be part of how it sunsets. It sunsets with the understanding that we'll meet either three times or four times, however, you think is best. It'll report to CSAC, and then we will expand CSAC for a limited period of time if there are people who want to volunteer into that. And we'll bring MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 8 - them in, and then that way their voice will be heard a different way. And then as well as getting those reports in. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I think that's a good segway into that action item. Right? I don't think we need to do anything here tonight. This was more of a discussion, but I'll take action to work with our working group to formulate that document. And hopefully, we'll have it done for the next meeting. We'll get it on the agenda, and we can discuss it. And if we all like it with the changes, then we can move forward and vote on it then. Okay. Everybody, good? Any other discussion on that? HOLDEN: What would the process actually be for whatever we call it for making this go away? Like folding it into something else? SNIPES: I would, I would just call it the MMPC is going to sunset, we're going to expand CSAC to add, add a couple if and that's what that's the thing that maybe we should discuss tonight to see if there's anybody that is interested in doing it. I wouldn't do more than two. I think if we bring two in that puts it at a nine-person committee for them. And then that'll drop back down to seven. And I can take care of all of that with Linda and figuring out the lingo as far as CSAC goes. And then we can go from there. CRAIG: Is CSAC okay with this? SNIPES: I have not brought it up to him because it hasn't been discussed here yet. That direction will come from here. CRAIG: Okay. WILLARD: So again, I mean, we're a commission appointed by the Town Council. So, I think the only thing we can do is recommend. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah. We're just going to write up our thoughts. This is how we think we should do it. And then we, of course, as a commission, we should vote on it. Right. So, we have consensus, and then we'll pass it to the staff and then from there. SNIPES: And then that can be sent out to the Mayor and Council and everybody that needs to see it. And unless they have a strong objection, which I would be surprised if they went against, then that action could be taken and then it'll just go through Linda to make the clerical information, so we stay legal. WILLARD: Well, then back Kevin to your comment on in terms of just to move things along to see if anybody is interested in being part of that transition to CSAC. GRZYBOWSKI: You have put everybody on the spot now. SNIPES: And frankly if not, that's okay too, it still works, I just want to make sure that you don't feel like you're losing everything. If there are some of you that want to roll over, I'm fine with that. I'm also fine with it, the CSAC just being told that look, now, because there was conversation around things that overlapped. It's funny that you brought that up. Just last night, when we were discussing, they're looking into some environmental things. And I'm like, well, there's certain things that overlap. And so we don't want to have you doing work that another group is doing, and we can share that information across to see how that wants to be handled. So it's a thing of having that happen, where there is crossover. So it's entirely up to you. And you don't have to announce tonight, if you want to send something to Patti in the next couple of weeks to let her know, that would be fine too. And we can put that into the next agenda to share with the group. That way there's not so much pressure on DJ. WILLARD: I am willing to go. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 9 - GRZYBOWSKI: I mean, I'm willing to go too. But I was going to talk to Janice and Bill to see if they need help on the Conservancy side as well. So that's why I didn't want to just make a decision tonight. But I'll say I'm willing to jump in as well with DJ. So, there are at least two of us interested. SNIPES: Well, if there's more then it can be a vote, we can put it to a vote and go that way with it. HOLDEN: But to that point, you don't you could become Conservancy Board Member. GRZYBOWSKI: That's what I wanted to talk to you about. HOLDEN: So, anyone, I think that's something that we should look at integrating all the some of the commissioners into the board. So that it's the same engagement, but more so because there's more we can do. NURNEY: So that’s a good point. I mean, what should we say that the seven of us consider one or the other? Or of course, you could bow out if you want to? Sure. Right, with the preference be to have us all represented in one place or the other? Or is that too much? GRZYBOWSKI: Maybe too many. HOLDEN: We can’t add seven people as our Board is only seven people. It could be more it could be up to nine or even Yeah, I think it could be nine. And maybe somebody will leave. SNIPES: Right. But it's, it's, it just becomes all part of it. There's it when especially when you first bring it up, then it's like, oh, there's a lot of pieces. And so it's figuring out where those all go and the more we discuss tonight that show the different angles, then the committee that that work group that's working on it has more information to iron out before we come back the next time and hopefully we can dial it in tighter than and figure out where we go from there. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, good. HOLDEN: Sorry. So I guess the three of us can try and make a plan. Not that that's a big plan, but just to try and hit all the things that need to get done. And that's what we'll come back with in addition to the draft of the letter. GRZYBOWSKI: Correct a transition plan. Exactly. All right, perfect. Okay, moving on to Item Number 9 MMPC Meeting Dates For 2024. If anybody has any, you know, conflicts this is so far in the future. I don't I don't, I'm fine with the dates. So if no one has a problem with any of the dates, we can make a Motion to Approve the Potential Meeting Dates, or future meeting dates. Alright, I move that we approve the future meeting dates. NURNEY: Second. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. All in favor? ALL: AYE GRZYBOWSKI: No, nobody opposed. Motion carries 7-0. That brings us to Item Number 10, Consideration and Possible Action of the Non-native Invasive Plant Working Group. That's some good information that Janice has passed out as well through Patti. But I guess I'll leave it up to you. Any thoughts? HOLDEN: Right. So yeah, Paul Staker is very involved in doing the assessment of the Diamond Fire that hit the gooseneck portion of the Scottsdale Preserve over the summer. It hit a couple of 100 acres and so now they're trying to figure out what they attribute the primary cause to and as of this, it seems to be a red broom, which is an invasive plant that we have growing here, not necessarily in our preserve, but that happens to be growing, certainly in Scottsdale, and anything near the Regional Park is an issue. But of course, if it's in the regional park, it's likely to be in the Scottsdale Preserve. And so, I MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 10 - guess, and I did bring this up when we had our last Board meeting with the Conservancy in May and there was a pretty strong expression of people who are interested in getting involved and getting more of the volunteers involved. Because you do need like teams to go out if that's what we decide to do. Paul did agree that he would come once again, he did this a couple of years ago, he would educate us about whatever they currently do, and know, and it's a great start. At any rate, it's not necessarily the beginning and the end of what it is we do, assuming we do something. So, though, if this was now not the commission, it's the same people looking at the conservancy, which is great, perfect. It's just easier for us to communicate with Kevin what we plan to do, and kind of go ahead and start the program if that's what we want to do. And just like the commission would have made recommendations, the Conservancy can make the recommendations after we go out and look and do an assessment and then figure out whether or not there's an issue this year or not, or we put it on hold, which is what we did a couple of years ago. So, I think that's probably the recommendation that I would make to the Conservancy because they are interested. And anyone who wants to participate can do that. SNIPES: And just to kind of hit in on this even with it going to the Conservancy and saying that the MMPC is not here, then just making sure that the Sonoran Conservancy understands that it still needs to go through staff before action takes place. And I know that we understand that it's just what I want to make sure that that's something that we talk about documenting and making sure, that's where I want to make sure that connection stays with CSAC. So that information can be shared. And then we can figure out the bigger scheme of how we go through and do things just like this. CRAIG: Janice, what was the process that Scottsdale went through in terms of you're seeing groups of people go out, go out, like was indicated a couple of years ago, just identification of where there are invasive plants, you're talking about groups going out and identifying or going out and somehow eradicating, or what. What process did Scottsdale end up going through? HOLDEN: Well, Scottsdale does, as we know, they do eradicate, but I would not, I don't think that would be something we would ever recommend without going first and doing an assessment, which is, I would imagine we would do something very similar to what we did. I don't know two, three years ago, where we formed teams, everybody was assigned a trail to a trail and the five to six trails. Well, people and basically a couple of people from Scottsdale came over. GRZYBOWSKI: They used an app didn’t they? HOLDEN: Unable to transcribe NURNEY: Can you say that all over again. HOLDEN: Brian, did you hear me? JENNINGS: No. HOLDEN: Oh, never mind. GRZYBOWSKI: She didn't have her mic on. JENNINGS: Okay, that's fine. HOLDEN: I guess that's all right now I think we need to do about the non-native invasive plants. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I mean, from like, when we did the North Leg this past year, we definitely noticed more buffel grass because we didn't have a trailer. Right? So, there was no one ever going out there to really check it right. But as we were building that trail, we noticed a lot more buffelgrass, which was interesting. That's not the one that was a big mover in the Diamond Fire. So, but yeah, I agree, I think that's the approach, we need to figure this out, let's get the training. And you know, we'll probably MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 11 - get some people out there to go out and look and start identifying, because I forgot all the training to forget the plants right. CRAIG: At the same time wonder, relative to cost, Fountain Hills versus Scottsdale if they're going through and able to have the funds to eradicate are we apt to have funds if we if we don't know what the inclination of the council financially, we may be able to do a lot of work and not have it be any good. WILLARD: Well, I think there are a couple of things I had this is a while back, I had a conversation with Scott Hamilton and they have a grant that I don't quite understand the nuances of, but he said that we can somehow piggyback off his grant so that we didn't have to start from the beginning, we still would have to do some things. And then Kevin brought up a meeting or two ago, this grant that was too late for this year. But if we jumped on that that might be a possibility for us to get some funding for and that was remediation only not assessment. So, we need to be aware of that. But I think there are a couple of things that we're able to pursue and see if they pan out or not. GRZYBOWSKI: And the other thing too, I like about the Sonoran Conservancy, they're nonprofit. So, they can actually work on a grant all on their own. Whereas the Commission can't do anything. HOLDEN: We can also raise money. SNIPES: Yeah I think all those are possibilities. As far as covering the funding side of things. I think there are a lot of grants out there to help prevent fire in preserves, and even in open deserts. So it's certainly something that there's more than one way to help get the funding to help with doing a task. As far as the angle of the council at any given time, who knows? There's no way for us to have that magic crystal ball. I wish we had, but we do not. I would use it a lot. So yeah, I think that there's more than one way to figure out how we can do things down the road. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, let's move on to Item Number 11 Discussion Possible Action Moving Toolboxes, right, we still need those moves Bill? NURNEY: They didn't move themselves? GRZYBOWSKI: No They didn't move themselves. So interesting thing enough. I mean, move the wheels on there. But I don't think I know chief are they now have an ATV? I don't know if that's big enough. Can we use the ATV? Put a toolbox on it because it has a bed for carrying a person. What are the thrills? I don't know. I mean, it's a new it's a new idea because they just got the ATV. And we're not getting to helicopter unless we buy it ourselves. Like we have to rent we already went through all the channels. We checked with the fire department we checked with the sheriff they all said nope, nope, nope, nope. So, we're not getting any free helicopter support. So just thinking of another option. CRAIG: What did the only thing was that I heard of a big one wheel that I don't know that fire and rescue us or whatever that might be able to be used. I don't know. If anybody else know anything? NURNEY: Sorry, do we know definitively how much those weigh? Empty? CRAIG: No. I know a couple of us have put it in the back of my SUV to carry it up to where it is. And then four of us could do it with an auto. NURNEY: I'm kind of envisioning, unfortunately, like a funeral procession. Yeah, carrying the casket, right? Maybe that's what we have to plan for. Even if we only do 100 yards a time or 50 yards a time do it over a period of a month. I can't I don't think I ATV is going to get those trails with carrying something like that. WILLARD: Bill, you had a sense of what a helicopter rental would cost. Didn’t you get some kind of a ballpark figure of what a helicopter is? MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 12 - CRAIG: Oh, I think it was Scott who told me. Yeah, it was Scott who told me $2,000 an hour. Kevin, is that worth pursuing to see exactly what? It may only take an hour. NURNEY: What kind of helicopter do I mean? It's not just any helicopter. CRAIG: Lift it from the parking lot. Go out the Ridgeline, lift the second one go out to Lower… GRZYBOWSKI: No, no, yeah, it does have to be a special helicopter that's got a vertical onboard delivery system in the hook. But again, Scottsdale uses those I mean, I'm sure that's easy to find out. CRAIG: Oh, yeah. They have a helicopter that lifts boulders, or at least large amounts of rocks, and carry some different places. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, but we should at least look, you know, can you ask Scott? CRAIG: Well, I can at least ask him who they used and a contact. WILLARD: I mean, depending on what that number is, then we can think about fundraising, GoFundMe say, hey, let's chip in to help get these done. But yeah, once we have a number, then we're going to have no option on what our options are. IRWIN: But are we moving them only once? I mean… CRAIG: My intention is to move them to a place where they'd be accessible for maintenance. GRZYBOWSKI: Right now the only one we have is the one at the beginning of the ACT. So if you're doing work way out, right, so we wanted to get one, where do you want to put that one? CRAIG: One at the top of the lollipop. Okay, on Ridgeline take care all those or actually at the power lines, and then another? Well, move it up somewhere close to where the first crossover is on the Sonoran. NURNEY: So would another…. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, go ahead, Brian. JENNINGS: Hey, could this be kind of a progressive move where you set the tools out there was one guy at a time and then you know, the box goes separately, and that way you're keeping down the weight and can figure out a way to do it without mechanizing it? GRZYBOWSKI: Yes, we did bring that up. But that would take at least four strong people to move it quite a bit. NURNEY: I don't think anyone was suggesting we move it fully, right? But Bill is there another option to build I would think that the farther out we go this may be the smaller we could get by with a smaller container if we could build something out there like a kit or something. CRAIG: Well we have two boxes now. We have three altogether with one in place. NURNEY: I know but if the other two it turns out we just can't move the other two. I mean, could we build something on site there and just have people carry the parts to build it of course corollary to that I'm assuming the answer to this is absolutely no but is there any way to take apart the existing box? GRZYBOWSKI: No, no. SNIPES: I wonder if there's a one-wheel or something like that that trail-building crews use. And if they would rent it or come out and move it at a substantially lower cost than say a helicopter. I think that would be worth looking into. NURNEY: I think the trouble is that there are parts of the trails that nothing no vehicle… GRZYBOWSKI: No these would be manual labor. But they're a one-wheeler. Just like a wheelbarrow. NURNEY: Yeah, but I still think there are parts of that that wouldn't be possible. SNIPES: You could carry it around the corner if you had to be carried around the corner and then put it back on the wheel. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 13 - GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, if a human can walk it we get we can get it. Just a lot of work for humans. SNIPES: Have you seen how strong Scott is? NURNEY: He can only move rocks? He's a rock specialist. GRZYBOWSKI: But there's like only like one and a half of me maybe if Nate's ankle is healed, maybe we got two there's not a lot of us on the Trailblazers. Okay, well we have a plan we're going to talk to at least Scottsdale to see if they what they do, but then I'm going to do is I'll do some research. Because in the military on the planes, we have very similar one-wheeler things that we could pick up either box and drag it. I'm sure they got something for trail building as well. That would at least be easier than four people trying to handle it by the handles, we can do that. Okay, Item Number 12 Discussion and Possible Action on the Volunteer Waiver? Janice, what's the plan for that? Do we need to sign it? Are we doing that? Patti? Okay. This is from Kim Wickland. SNIPES: What is needed for the town's insurance is to make sure that everybody is taken care of is make sure that everybody fills out a Volunteer Waiver. And then it also makes it so everybody is counted in our volunteer group so that we know what our actual number of volunteers are. And so that's where this stemmed from is making sure that everybody's covered while they're out on the trail or have signed the waiver for how they're and what their involvement is, and what and what they're doing. GRZYBOWSKI: So does Kim want to do it online? Because I'm already in the system. SNIPES: Yes. Anyone who goes out. HOLDEN: I mean, we're pretty good about getting all the documents because we need a town one, we have our own one. We even created a fillable form this summer so that you could go online and fill it out as opposed to print it out and take it somewhere. SNIPES: Kim’s is fillable online as well. The volunteer form is online, it is a fillable document that can be done online. NURNEY: So I'm confused. Why is this on our agenda? Is this because we need to all do it? We haven't told them correct? GRZYBOWSKI: Because we all need to do it. To make sure all of us commissioners do it. SNIPES: Because we’re making sure that everybody does it. And because there's a bunch of people that haven't done it. We need to make sure that anybody who goes out and works on the trails, or does anything like that makes sure that everybody is filling this out prior to going out. HOLDEN: We do we really try hard. You know, I get it's not all that easy all the time, we have a list of people that haven't responded. So, we just have to make sure we coordinate so that they don't show up on a trail. NURNEY: So, the seven of us are being asked to complete this? HOLDEN: No, no, no, no, no, you've already done it. SNIPES: This is for all people that haven't done it. So as long as it's been filled out. HOLDEN: And if you haven't had a phone call or email from us, then you're good. NURNEY: All right. Thank you. HOLDEN: I have the list if you want to check. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, we're in compliance case closed. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, Item Number 13 Discussion of Possible Action of Fountain Hills Trail System Designated as National Recreational Trails by the Secretary of the Interior. So this is something Bill came across. So, will you want to take us on this journey? MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 14 - CRAIG: Yes. I have a lot of information. And I'll go through some of it and try to answer questions and then look to see if we want to pursue it. National Recreation Trails Designation presently there are around 1300 trails designated in all 50 states. It's part of the National Trail System Act of 1968. Designation is made by the Secretary of Interior, there would be no cost to us. There are five criteria and essentially instead of reading those right now, I will say that we could meet the criteria. This year's application must be made by November 1, but if we don't meet that next year's application will do it. It's an online process. To apply for benefits I'm sure there would be a question coming up. We would get a certificate and letter of certificate and can use the National Recreation Trails logo on our signs at our Trailhead. Free plastic signs are available with their logo on it indicating that metal signs are available, but that's for a cost. Trails are included in an online searchable database sponsored by the American Trails Organization and would be on all states on our state's featured trail web page. There are a number of other benefits indicated there is a 10-page preview application that includes a good bit in terms of making sure we have a letter from the Town approving these pictures of the trails and trailheads. They have something that we could go through as a preview application, and you can look up on National Recreational Trails. And that gives a good bit of information. I'm not sure what the benefits are of being recognized and having the availability of being online and database is preferable or is worth the amount of time it might take. And I don't know if we would have to do this for each of our trails or if we could do it for the trail system. I would have to make a call there, right? They list somebody you can contact for information. IRWIN: Yeah, I'm looking at the application right now. And they want to know the length of trail open to public use. So that implies a single one in my mind. But yeah, we'd want obviously, more than one. CRAIG: At the same time if we did it for one, that process would be easier for the rest of them. You have to go through the length of the trail, the average width of the trail, the average, or the length of the trail, and the average climb and descent for trails. GRZYBOWSKI: Is Scottsdale an NRT are they designated? CRAIG: I don't know. HOLDEN: Would you see any value Kevin for the Town? SNIPES: When we apply for grants and awards, that's where I was going to lead to I would think that this would be a feather in the cap when you're going after any type of grant to help maintain and or improve existing trails, as well as the protection side of fire protection. Any designation that you get definitely gives you a leg up and you lead with that when you're when you're putting in for it. So yeah, I think that there. I don't know a whole lot about it about this particular designation. But any extra designation, especially at the national level, I think plays a heavier hand than not having you know, so definitely give us a leg up if we were able to pull it off. Like Bill said I still I agree with figuring out if it's worth it, depending on what the actual grant applications like some of them are heavy, and some of them are not too bad. So, you got to kind of dive into it a little bit before you can make that decision. GRZYBOWSKI: Because I'm looking over at Sherry's screen here and we see I see some that are 3.5 miles some that are 50 miles. So, it doesn't seem to be any length designation right now. IRWIN: Yeah, there's nothing in Scottsdale, but there is like the South and North Kaibab Trail there is the Central Arizona Trail, you know, the one that goes around the canal. That one's there. And it looks like the only one that's really close to us. A lot of these are like, well, Granite Mountain is that one close. Yes. There's two, there's one in Scottsdale. Yeah. And everything else is kind of far away. Well, yeah, nothing in Scottsdale that I saw. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 15 - WILLARD: I think this is worthwhile pursuing and then to Kevin's point to see how onerous it is. I think it's not realistic to shoot for this November one that's only a month away. But to go ahead and walk down the path. And if it's not overly onerous, and we've got the time to do it. I think it's worth pursuing. And I wouldn't mind pursuing or knowing nobody else wants to or somebody else. CRAIG: How would that be? Would that be us? Or would that be Conservancy? SNIPES: Depends on where we end up. GRZYBOWSKI: Right, I think it's worth starting to look at it ourselves right now. You know, Bill's already started if DJ wants to help with looking at the research, I think it is worth a call, like, you know, do we do the trail system? Do we have to pick one and start with longer? So yeah, at least we should start the research. Yeah. I think it's a good plan. CRAIG: I'll talk with you about it. GRZYBOWSKI: So we yet again, we can establish a working group. So right now, we got Bill Craig and DJ, if anybody else wants to jump on that working group, we can do that. Brian, Sherry, Steve? IRWIN: I thought we could only have three, right? I just heard you say three. GRZYBOWSKI: Just to Bill and DJ. So, you don't have to answer now. But we could add another person to the working group. So anyway, we're going to establish a working group to start looking at what the National Trail Designation and NRT National Recreational Trails. NURNEY: Can I suggest that maybe we expand at least the first couple of meetings with this subgroup or task force to consider any designations, not just this one, because I don't know there may be other ones that we want to consider applying for as well. I don't know. I mean, this caught me kind of off guard tonight. And it sounds like a great one but maybe there are some others. Or maybe we do more than one. To put it to Kevin's it seems like the more we have the the more we're recognized, the more likelihood we might. There might be to get grants and right recognition for other things. CRAIG: So DJ and I will bring something back next month. Yep. I’m happy to help know with something like that. Yeah. As that part of it. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. leads us to Item Number 14 Update on the Installation of New Trail Counters. Exciting news. Do we have Kevin? SNIPES: We have them in. So that's a good thing. We do not have them installed. I've been trying to find a block of time where I can get with the provider to get everything set up and, and ready. But they are sitting in a box in my office and look beautiful in there. GRZYBOWSKI: We get two or three? Great. NURNEY: And now you know how many people are going into your office? SNIPES: Yeah, it's a lot, but mostly me. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, so that is good news. Right. So hopefully we'll get something installed soon. Trail season's coming up in about a month. So, Item Number 15 Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Liaison Update. HOLDEN: We haven't met since May. But we did work over the summer to put together the fall program that has now been open for registration since August, and the Town's website, ours as well. Well, you go through ours to get to the towns and I think we have 19 Different hikes and activities, including interpretive hikes. So, it should be a pretty busy season. A lot of it is filling up quickly in October. And it's very encouraging. We're also working with Community Services to develop the Hiking Challenge in November. So, it's kind of the same. Well, it's always a little slightly different. So that information should be going out what's already starting to go out. I've seen it on either Instagram or MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 16 - Facebook. So that's what we've been working on and we're now putting together for the middle of October deadline. The spring activities winter, actually January through April. Anybody has any good ideas but we have we have a lot. And so it is very impressive what we're able to put together. So at least it'll be another 19 or 20 activities. I think that's the majority. Like I said, we haven't met. And we will meet again, our meeting is October 2. GRZYBOWSKI: trailblazers, we got some maintenance talking about already. CRAIG: Yes, at the beginning of the season, I hope to do maintenance, and I have trail stewards who are going out and reporting back to me in terms of whether some heavy maintenance is needed. And so far, I haven't gotten much back. I'd like to look at a few of the trails myself, to see. But I hope to start the season with maintenance and the building of the new extension of the Overlook Trail so that that can be done as soon as possible for use, which I think willl get a lot of use. The third thing is signs, we will need to do that. Kevin, I don't know the status. Haven't heard anything yet. SNIPES: I think in that still with Kenny, I think that's over with him right now for that. Not sure. We can, can check with him. And we can figure out what we need, and what our next step is. WILLARD: Okay, so I hope to start the season with all three of those things. Great. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, so, Item Number 16 Trail Counter Activity, which is in your packet. You know, again, we all know some are slow. So the numbers reflect that. So, you know, but we know it'll start picking up soon. So thanks again, for the team that checks our trail counters. Right. And hopefully, we'll have some new ones coming up for this beginning of trail season to get some awesome, no human intervention is required to get the numbers. So that'd be very exciting. HOLDEN: I did have a question, I guess, for Kevin. So what I often find confusing about these charts is that there's nothing that really tells you how many people and we don't have an accurate count of people. And we've talked about this before. And I know Scottsdale does some calculations where they do three point something people per car, and they do count cars. Would it be helpful to have even if we just took the number of people that go through the gate and divide it in half as the number of people? I mean, if you pass through the gate, chances are I mean, okay, I know you can come from Scottsdale, and you can come up from Dixie Mine and all that. But is that important? Or do we look at these numbers? It looks like oh, we have 62,000 people. But it's not even half? I mean, it's not nearly that. And so I guess my question is, depending on who looks at this, is that something that we should address? And if it's not, because what we really want to know is about? Well, it doesn't even tell us about the trails, because of course they're combined. So, you don't know how many there are on one train trail versus another. But it is a nice comparison. And I wouldn't want to give it up because it's just the comparison of volume year over year. But that would really be, is it worth it? Or do we just leave it? SNIPES: Well, I think you could, you could look at that both of those ways, right? I think looking at it year over year, you can see that we're nearly doubling a lot of the months. And so that information is valuable, saying we know what the usage was and how it affected the trail last year, and it's twice as much this year, which means we need to really know that we need to go out and pay attention to the maintenance of this trail because it's doubled what it was a year ago, which I think is probably the bigger usability of having a trail count. When we've done grants and things like that we have divided numbers where we know that there are loops, we've done that as well. So, I think knowing where it's at, and if it's something where someone's out and back primarily then we have modified the numbers to make that make it make sure that it is accurate when we're sending it out. And if you divide it in half, then all you're doing is going okay, we'll work with smaller numbers. Because it's the same number, it's MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 17 - the same differentiation from year to year. I hear what you're saying, we don't want to blow it up. But this is the actual number that cross that path. And so you can use it, however, you want to, I mean, if you want to divide it and make it, so it's that way, then that's fine. It's known when, when it's at the beginning of a loop, that it's someone that's going to come back to us, somewhere along the way. So, it makes it to where you can absolutely do that. And we know we lose a few that continue on and go in Scottsdale. I would say, fewer numbers than what go out and come back. GRZYBOWSKI: The new trail counters also identified bicycles is that the ones we got? SNIPES: Yeah they'll have differentiation as well. And I'm not positive, but they may be directional as well. So that'll eliminate that, that issue as well of going out and coming back. NURNEY: To me, it's almost a relativity thing that's important. You know, it's like, the variation by month and the variation by trail. And at least if I think you're trying to make Yeah, you're able to compare. Because I don't think there's any, there's not going to be any method that's going to accurately count the number of actual human beings. SNIPES: I was thinking we could have DJ go out, watch, and then we'll get the exact count. Give him a clicker and a camera. CRAIG: I think what we are saying is, with the technology that we have, this is the best that we can do. Tell how many clicks there are. GRZYBOWSKI: Depending on what you're doing, you have to either build your own formula, or use a standard guide identify. But I think with the new trail counters, that is going to be exciting because we're having better data when we get them installed. WILLARD: To Janice's point. I mean, we're not going to be if we try to be exact, we're going to be wrong. But if we try to be generally correct, rather than exactly wrong, I think it's important to be able to answer the question, hey, how many people do you think used the trail last year? I think 50,000. There were 96,600 clicks. I think we should be able to answer that. And yeah, it's an estimate. But come on, it's not, you know, let's be generally correct. And be able to put a number out there. SNIPES: Yeah, and like, I think we've been saying it, we can show trends of we've gone up 20% and the number of people that have passed this spot, or we've gone up 10% Or, you know, year over a year or month over month, those numbers are accurate. GRZYBOWSKI: All right, Item 17 is Future Agenda Items. The ones I think we just discussed tonight are: • Working Group Update on the Scope of the MMPC. So, I'm going to take action to draft the document and work with Janice and Steve on that. • Workgroup from the NRT, National Recreational Trails • Update on Installation of New Counters Those are the three that I can think of, we'll have our standard Update Sonoran Conservancy Liaison, Update Trail Counter Activity, and Meeting Minutes. Anything else anybody could think of for Future Agenda items? SNIPES: I'm getting ready to meet up with Stabilizer Solutions on Thursday morning to discuss the entryway up there. If any of you would like to join, you're welcome. We're meeting at 9:30 a.m. on Thursday to discuss putting the Staylock inside the gate up and looking at 100 and 150 feet, something like that, to where we can reinforce that berm. That forces the water to travel off to the side of the trail instead of running the granite and gravel down the hill. It is the product that they've done in Sedona. I MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION SEPTEMBER 26, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 18 - don't remember what the exact miles of trails are, but lots of miles of trails in Sedona. They've done several in at South Mountain and several other spots around town. I think it's going to be a huge asset to how that entryway works now compared to how it is today. GRZYBOWSKI: We'll have an update from you on that on the next agenda item. That'd be great. WILLARD: All right, then. GRZYBOWSKI: Do I have a Motion to Adjourn? CRAIG: Motion to Adjourn GRZYBOWSKI: Okay IRWIN: Seconded. GRZYBOWSKI: All in favor. ALL: Aye Motion Carried 7-0 GRZYBOWSKI: Meeting adjourned at 1810 or 1812 Actually. Thank you everybody. Having no further business, Chair Grzybowski adjourned the Regular Meeting of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission on September 26, 2023, at 6:12 P.M. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION _______________________________________________________________ Scott Grzybowski, Chair ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: _______________________________________________ Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 26th day of September 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 24th day of October 2023 Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant ITEM 6. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):   CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission October 24, 2023 Verbatim Minutes Staff Summary (Background) The intent of approving meeting minutes is to ensure an accurate account of the discussion and action that took place at the meeting for archival purposes. Approved minutes are placed on the town's website and maintained as permanent records in compliance with state law. Attachments MMPC October 24, 2023 Meeting Verbatim Minutes  Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:23 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 1 - Post-Production File TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 24, 2023 MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING VERBATIM MEETING MINUTES Transcription Provided By: https://Otter.ai ********* Transcription is provided to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 2 - TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023 A Regular Meeting of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:00 p.m. Members Present: Chair Scott Grzybowski; Vice Chair Steven Nurney; Commissioner Bill Craig; Commissioner Janice Holden; Commissioner Sherry Irwin; Commissioner Brian Jennings; Commissioner DJ Willard Staff Present: Interim Community Services Director Kevin Snipes; Executive Assistant Patti Lopuszanski Audience: None MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 3 - GRZYBOWSKI: Okay, welcome. So, we're calling the MMPC. What month is this October meeting to order at 1700? Roll call, please. LOPUSZANSKI: Chairman Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Vice Chair Nurney? NURNEY: Here LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Craig? CRAIG: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Holden? HOLDEN: Here LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Irwin? IRWIN: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Jennings? JENNINGS: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Commissioner Willard? WILLARD: Here. LOPUSZANSKI: Thank you. GRZYBOWSKI: Do we have any Reports by the Commissioners anything noteworthy? No. Alright, Number 4 Call to Public do we have any speaker cards? LOPUSZANSKI: No Call to Public. GRZYBOWSKI: Item Number 5 is stricken from the agenda. We did not have time to get the minutes out. So, we'll get those out next meeting. Number 6 Consideration and Possible Action for the Naming of Two Recently Approved Trails. So, I'll leave that with Bill and Janice, because I know the Sonoran Conservancy is kind of working on this as well. CRAIG: Not yet. I think we need to bring it up for consideration as to the process for naming the two new trails. GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. I think that is fair. CRAIG: I call one of them a name now because it's the one that we will first get to above the Sonoran Trail. GRZYBOWSKI: Good. Yeah, I agree. I think we should come up with a process. Like just ask the Sonoran Conservancy. Can we like, you know, ask for input from the public on some names? HOLDEN: I mean, Bill did put it on the agenda for our November 6, whatever that Monday is the 6th meeting so we can discuss it with the Board. But it's a good point. Do we want to take that out to the community at large? I mean, I guess it's a timewise, it doesn't matter, because we know that the first trail to be built will just be the Overlook, right? Yes. So that's done. So, we have a long time before we're going to start on the second trail. WILLARD: I would prefer that we not take it to the public. I mean, we've got some… HOLDEN: Sorry, when I say public, I meant Conservancy. I didn't say public. So, let's just first go to the Conservancy, the 130 whatever volunteers or not? I would not recommend that we need to go to the public for that. My question is, do we want to actually go to the Conservancy and ask them to throw out three to five names or something and ask them, to pick just to involve them in that? I can take it to the Board. I don't know if it matters. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 4 - CRAIG: I think we ought to take it to the Board. A Steward Meeting is coming up and it might be good to just throw it out there. Is it before the sixth? HOLDEN: Yeah, we have training on the fourth, you have it on the third or fourth, and we have it on. the fifth, we have training for our volunteers. CRAIG: Well, let's just ask for it at that time, what they… any names they come up with, and then take it to the Board also, to get a recommendation to come to us. WILLARD: Yeah, I think I think it's important to be clear that we're asking for input, but we're not going to vote. I mean, this is not a popularity contest for the name, right? This is just getting input from the Conservancy members. HOLDEN: That's fine with me. So, we would throw out two or three names that we already have, do we have asked them for their input? GRZYBOWSKI: Sure. I mean, what I would recommend is that anybody who has an idea, send it to Patti. Patti can then email it to all of us commissioners, at least so we all know that somebody has a name. I haven't even thought about any potential names. And then we could get any of these names that we think of first to you to get into the Conservancy. And I like the idea of the people that are invested in our trails, the stewards the hosts, to be able to throw out some ideas, but DJ is right, we're not asking for a vote. We're not going to take the most popular one because seven people said so. We're just asking for thoughts. SNIPES: Well, I think that you guys are the only ones who have seen those trails and what's out there to make it so it has a name so I think that it makes sense to not let anybody just throw it out if they have no idea what's in the area, or why it should be named something, then that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. WILLARD: When I saw this on the agenda, I gave it a little thought and my recommendation would be, we've got a Sonoran, and we've got a Lower Sonoran that we call the next trail up the Upper Sonoran. And we've got probably a couple of years to decide on the last trail's name, right? So, I would almost say, I would defer the last trail and work on the next trail and for me, Upper Sonoran is a nice fit. CRAIG: I agree to put names out now I call it Saguaro because as Kevin is saying, familiar with the area, and there are some beautiful saguaros along the next one up, that you are calling Upper Sonoran so I'm going to throw that out as a name. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, I would just shoot them in an email to Patti, so we have an electronic record. Okay, all right. Moving on to Number 7, MMPC Scope of Charter Working Group. So again, Janice, myself, and Steve met last week and we came up with a draft document that was attached to the agenda. That is our recommendation to the staff and council on how to handle sunsetting MMPC. WILLARD: I was very surprised to see this document. At the last meeting, there seemed to be a consensus of shifting over to the Community Services Commission and that's nowhere in this document. GRZYBOWSKI: Very good point. We had a discussion that ran around and kept convincing ourselves that we didn’t need it. So, if you think about the Sonoran Conservancy, as we discussed in the previous meeting, the Sonora Conservancy is the agency responsible for trails. So, without that, to me, CSAC never cared about the other two trails. It's not even part of their charter. So, to add three, the Preserve and two other trails of the CSAC didn't make sense to us. Whereas if we leave it up to the Sonoran Conservancy, any of us can help join their Board, right, if they need additional board members, then we go directly to staff for anything we need. Right? We’ve done everything major that we need to do. So MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 5 - we talked ourselves out of the CSAC. So, absolutely right to be surprised that it's gone. NURNEY: And also, because the CSAC would have the same open meeting issues that we've had and that was one of the things we're trying to avoid right? WILLARD: I've heard from Janice that there's an issue with the Conservancy relative to getting the Town's attention. So, I don't know how this changes that because the Conservancy is still an unofficial appendage. I mean, it's a 501(C)3 non-profit, but that doesn't really in this write-up have a real link to the town, an artificial link, which has been a problem in the past, I believe. HOLDEN: So I think if we kind of, really, as we talked last time, establish the relationship with Kevin. We have it today on certain things, but it's not very structured, I suppose. So, when we have Trailblazer issues or kind of structural issues in the Preserve, then Bill will go to Kevin with no problem. And it's not a problem when we do either. But it's not structured. And I think that's what we would need to do. And we would establish quarterly meetings or whatever was needed to do that. And I think the issue with going to CSAC was just you were taking a person and you would have to then educate them and go through them and explain to them and then they would take it and explain to the commission. And you know, if there is an issue that we can't resolve with Kevin, is CSAC, the best? Is that the best alternative? Or is there a better alternative? Like we take it to somebody else with Kevin? So that was kind of how it kind of fizzled out when we started talking about the value of adding yet another kind of intermediary, sort of like we have now except it's us. SNIPES: Well, and if you wanted to get something on permanent record in minutes, then we could absolutely do it three times or four times a year presentation to CSAC so that it gets on their minutes and then they would be there. And we could certainly have that discussion of if you guys go, ‘Hey, there's something, something that we'd like to get going or we want to make sure it gets on to official record’. I don't have any problem with you guys as Conservancy coming in and giving a presentation whenever and however that fits. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah. And that's actually recommended. I mean, there should be to do most of the commission, there should be more presentations, right from a lot of the parts of the community come into the commission like SPAC and Planning and Zoning. And then they can all Conservancy can actually make a presentation or bring up a particular item. SNIPES: And I know that CSAC would appreciate that as well. We can absolutely make that work. GRZYBOWSKI: So I mean, we don't have to make a decision tonight, we just put it together. That's our first draft. If you guys want to think about it, take it home, edit it up, send emails to Patti, of course, and send all that out to us. Absolutely. You know, we weren't we're not sold on not having CSAC. It just made sense. Like we said, as we kept talking around, we were like, wait a minute, when we bring up CSAC it’s just adding another layer, which we're trying to remove our layer, because we got everything done? Community Services owns the trails. Kevin, they own the trails, they're not going away. They're still in their purview, right? That's what they're in charge of so we're like, okay. WILLARD: Yeah, I guess my only thought, at the moment is maybe in this write-up to include specifically, what Kevin brought up in terms of periodic interface with the CSAC. SNIPES: One, I think, I think with it just being the first time that is brought up like you said, it's the first draft, so anything like that, that you want to see put in, send it over to Patti. And then we can get it into another version of this, we'll bring it back. And then we can hash it out when we get to that point, and figure out what we want the final to look like, and then we can get the final done after the next meeting, I think that would be a good time to try and do that. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 6 - GRZYBOWSKI: Agreed, right? We put no timeframe in that doc. Right? We'd have to decide that today. Let's get another version of the document out in the next meeting. And then, you know, we could decide that and what we want to do. SNIPES: Perfect. CRAIG: Scott, can I backtrack for one question? GRZYBOWSKI: Sure. CRAIG: If we end up deciding on names, is that it? Or do we have to go to the Council? SNIPES: It'll have to go to Council, I'm sure. Yeah. I don't think that they would go against anything that you recommend. But we will have to go that route. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah. Some of these items could be one of those items we don't need to present. It's just in front of them. They just approve it. But yeah, it has to be approved by Consent. Thank you. Okay, Number 9 Stayloc Installation at the Entryway. Kevin? Oh, Number 8 did I skip? So yeah, we talked about this last time about the Trail System Designation as national recreational trails, did anybody do any research on that? CRAIG: I conferred quickly and felt that we should go ahead and make an attempt with one of our trails. Ridgeline Trail or Lower Sonoran Trail. It's a matter of going through the process, there's no immediacy needed since it won't be decided on for another year, it will be decided on November 1st for this year. process for doing that, I'm not sure. We didn't talk about that, whether I should go through and try to do it or you or, somebody else volunteering. WILLARD: I did look at the application. It's a multi-page application. So, I think in terms of where we're kind of heading in terms of having the Conservancy be more of the lead if the commission doesn't exist. To me, it looks like it needs a champion that heads it out. The champion can pull in lots of the pieces that are needed to fill out the application. But there needs to be if we want to go down the path of the National Recreation Trail, a designated person to lead that. It does look like it would be a worthwhile thing to do and we've got a full 12 months to do it. GRZYBOWSKI: So, can you guys bring that up at your next board meeting? IRWIN: I’ll do it. CRAIG: Good. You looked into it last meeting. GRZYBOWSKI: So, We got a champion yay. *In audible to transcribe…… CRAIG: One additional thing with that at the Conservancy meet last Conservancy meeting when it was brought up, I think Janice said, Hey, it might be good to look into if there are other possibilities. And I did that quickly. There is an American Discovery Trail, which is coast to coast 6800 miles a north route and a south route started in 1996. It is in existence but is being added to all the time, try to make the connection. So, somebody can go across the country, through urban, rural, and so forth. I quickly went to it for came up here. I haven’t found as yet a process to ask if any of our trails, for example, Andrew Kinsey going from us to Scottsdale might be able to be a part of that. But I will look a little further and hopefully before the Conservancy meeting, bring it up there also and see if there's any other possibility for that. GRZYBOWSKI: All right, great. Number 9, Stayloc Installation at the Entryway. SNIPES: I haven't got to confirm on what day they're going to be starting it. Bill and I did meet up there with them. They said end of this month, depending on when they got done with another project. So MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 7 - we're looking at less than two weeks. They're planning on it being a three-day process. We're going to do 20 feet wide, 100 feet long from the gate. They're going to do a tuck-in at the end to keep it from getting undermined. So yeah, we're excited to see it get started. I think it'll make a huge difference to that. We will close for a day so as soon as I find out which day. They said they can work around 99% of it, they just are worried about when the tractors are backing up and pulling forward and somebody getting him behind them. If it wasn't for that they would be willing to just leave it open. But with that being the only entrance, it makes it tough. So as soon as I find out that date, I will let you know. It comes sprayed, it's infused. And so, it makes it to where that you get a better lock with it. What makes it lock is the compaction. JENNINGS: So, they're going to be doing some regrading up there as well? SNIPES: Yes, they will be manipulating we talked about increasing the slope in a couple of areas to make sure that we don't get it coming around the side of it. I think we have a pretty good plan for how to get it done. HOLDEN: So is it like smooth like a like smooth asphalt? SNIPES: They use it for parking lots and stuff like that as well. Like Sedona has done I think 33 miles of trails now that they've used it for or they have 33 Miles planned out. They've started and done quite a few but yeah, they've been up there for the last four years. Just laying a trail for them. CRAIG: Kevin, two things. One you were going to try to contact me about having our crew smooth out the base of that before they get up there and second, the grading. There was mention of the grading up above 100 feet. Is that still part of the process? In other words, the ruts that are up there, right directly above where this new base will stop was mentioned trying to get a grader in there and making that a little smoother instead of the ruts that were there. SNIPES: I don't recall how that ended up, to be honest with you. But I'll check with Clay on that. CRAIG: Okay. And if they end up going up that far, the area right before the North Leg Trail, if we could bring them up for that area also do some grading and that that is rocky and I've got one path over to the right-hand side. But the rest of it's pretty rough rock-wise. SNIPES: Okay. CRAIG: So, if you could. SNIPES: We can see if we can get that looked at once we get up there to get started and see everything and see how that looks. CRAIG: You know where I mean? SNIPES: I think so. What I may do is just reach out to you. CRAIG: Where the Promenade goes downhill to the North Leg. SNIPES: Okay. Yeah, where we were talking about it ending just past that trail and talked about going to right? CRAIG: Say again. SNIPES: So, we're going up the 100 feet and ended up being a timeout right where we talked about doubling it off or…. CRAIG: No two separate things, the grading from the end of the 100 feet up to where the swale the wash has been. And the second one, the being on up in an area right before the North Leg goes out. SNIPES: Yeah, you're talking up and around the corner. Yes. So that won't be something that's involved in this process for sure. And that would be less inclined to what they do. We might be able to MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 8 - get Carume up there to take a look at that. They did the original bypass where we did the culverts under the trail. That would be more the type of equipment that they have. CRAIG: That would be fine because it's a safety factor there. SNIPES: Sure, sure. Yeah. Sorry. I wasn’t following but now I am. Gotcha. CRAIG: Thank you. GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Number 10 Updates from the Sonoran Conservancy? HOLDEN: Yeah, I got a few we. So, we're organized for our fall events and they're doing really well. They started already with night hikes. I think there are 19 events for October, November, December. Then we finalized our 2024 winter-spring events from January through April, and we submitted them to the Town. And as soon as the Town gets them up, which should be the beginning of November, we'll be able to start registering for that. We got a QR code from Skylar, which helps us. So, we've had these issues where people think they've registered, haven't registered, or the system doesn't log it properly, or whatever happens. So they come up, and then they're not registered, and we can't accept them. So we got a QR code, which means we can access the site from the QR code directly. So somebody can sign up right then in there if they're not registered, which is a great thing, especially for those night hikes. We have about 100 plus or 130 volunteers now who are not all active, but we hope that we get a lot more interest on November 1st when we do the launch of the November Hiking Challenge. So, it's six hikes or 35 miles in November and I hope everybody's registered. And we do have a number of training scheduled, so we have kind of a welcome event on November 1st and we hope to kind of attract more people. And then on November 3rd Bill, it is your Trailblazer training for crew leaders. And then November 5th, Sunday is our training for stewards and hosts. So we get all that in and then we are also scheduling Desert First Aid classes just for volunteers for December and January. So you'll be getting that information as well. I think Kevin, and Pam sent you a note about and I'm not sure if it applies or it's needed, but we're thinking of having a patrol function much like us the Scottsdale Conservancy has, so their people go out they wear their shirts or caps or whatever the requirement is their badges. And when they go hiking, they wear this stuff and then they're recognized as people who kind of know what to do if you're lost or hurt or have questions or need water or whatever it is. And, as a Patroller in Scottsdale, you carry extra water, and you carry a little first aid kit, we have to be a little bit careful about what we offer in terms of a first aid kit. But we'll have training on that. So I guess the question we had was, do we need to amend our use agreement that we do that as opposed to just to what we do you know, we trailblaze, we host, we're stewards, and we have the garden? Do we need to add that? What do you think? SNIPES: Let me check in on that with Dave. And I'll see what he thinks about that. Because like you said there is a Yeah, a little bit of a… HOLDEN: Sometimes I think if we just didn't know, but that's not kind of the purpose, right? We don't want to go outside the Use Agreement. So it will also apply to bikers for any of you who bike up there. Also, if you wear your shirt and you identify yourself or a hat. You know, if somebody has a problem with the bike and the chain breaks, I don't know, I don't know how to fix it. But maybe you guys do. So that would be great. IRWIN: We identify as bike fixers. HOLDEN: Yes, you just kind of where you bring your kid along. I just had one other question. Do you have an electronic version of our map of the most current map? MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 9 - SNIPES: I believe so I printed out a couple of 11 by 17 and I was trying to make sure that it was our most recent one from Kenny and I haven't got that for sure. But I will shoot that over to you. HOLDEN: Yeah, if you could get that to me because we're looking to put it in our manuals and just have something that we can use. Oh, DJ, thank you very much. DJ updated that chart. Have you been able to get it up in the you know? I didn't check. SNIPES: Yeah, they should be. I was told they are but I have not gone up to check. So, I'll say yes. HOLDEN: And I'll bring this up just in case. And I'll put it there when we have our training. So I think that's it for me. Thank you. CRAIG: Could I also have a copy of that I am in contact with Bill Hines of Adero Resort to get adequate information to him about the information they send out. GRZYBOWSKI: I assume we got a PDF or something. It would just be good to send it to all the commissioners. Because that brings up when I was standing in the lobby doing nothing. Guess what that picture we have right there on the kiosk at the front door is the old one so the new 11 by 17 would be perfect or just remove it. WILLARD: One question I have I'm not sure for whom. When do we expect the timing to change the signage for the trail names? CRAIG: I talked with Kenny Valverde this past week. And they have to develop a full plan so that it deals with maps and all other information. And he says to plan for January. WILLARD: I don't think there's a real rush. CRAIG: No, just to inform Conservancy stewards of that it won't be until then. I mean, they've had information about the naming but….it won’t be changed until then. SNIPES: I spoke to him this morning and he was saying the same thing, but January's about what we're looking at. HOLDEN: Okay. Because we have it in the newsletter that's coming out this week. Should I just say, you know, early next year? Fine. Good enough. GRZYBOWSKI: All right. Item Number 11 Installation New Trail Counters. Any update on that? SNIPES: So, with my National Parks and Rec Conference the week before and the week after, no. I do have two hours blocked off for next Tuesday. So that's what I plan on getting them going. There's a couple of little classes on how to do stuff. So, after that, I plan on having them ready to roll out. GRZYBOWSKI: All right, Item number 12 Trail Counter Activity. I know the numbers are ticking back up again, which we assume is normal. I was even impressed. We had some, you know, almost 1000 people even in the summer, especially on the Lake Overlook, you know, so, again, good, but all good there any comments on the trail counters? Alright, Item Number 13 Future Agenda Items. I do know that we're going to need to have the Scope Charter Workgroup Update again, or we can call it whatever we want to draft. We may come up with some better Patti, but we need to talk about the Sunsetting of the MMPC. Right. We'll talk about the New Trail Counters, right hopefully we'll have an update, something will happen. Always ever. The Conservancy Liaison will have an update, we leave the Stayloc Installation, because that may be done talking about that. Anything else you guys can think of at the moment you can always email them right going once going twice. Now, you could always email the agenda items to me or Steve and Patti. Alright, our next meeting is November 28. And it's still exactly on the schedule. That's okay. No worries. All right, then. Can I get a Motion to Adjourn? SNIPES: Go D-Backs! MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION OCTOBER 24, 2023, VERBATIM MINUTES Transcribed by https://otter.ai - 10 - JENNINGS: I motion to adjourn. WILLARD: Second GRZYBOWSKI: OK seconded by DJ. All in favor? ALL: Aye. GRZYBOWSKI: Adjourned at 1732 Having no further business, Chair Grzybowski adjourned the Regular Meeting of the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission on October 24, 2023, at 5:32 P.M. MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION COMMISSION _______________________________________________________________ Scott Grzybowski, Chair ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: _______________________________________________ Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 24th day of October 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 28th day of November 2023 _________________________________________________________ Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant ITEM 7. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):   CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Community Services Strategic Plan 2024-2027 Staff Summary (Background) Attachments MMPC Review of Strategic Plan 2024-2027  Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:51 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  Community Services Strategic Plan 2024-2027 1 | Page MMPC Meeting Review 11.28.23 Vision 1: Provide community services that inspire personal growth, healthy lifestyles, and a sense of community 1. Support and facilitate programs that appeal to and are appropriate for all ages, demographics, and abilities a. Support more opportunities for free or low-cost events i. Pop up events ii. Event-type consolidation to increase variety b. Expand Community Center Membership by providing additional evening programming c. Develop and grow youth, tot, and teen programs i. Non-competitive sports programs ii. Youth-based hiking and nature program 2. Involve the community to guide future programming a. Develop a needs assessment to guide our department’s programming efforts b. Revitalize current participant surveys and utilize more methods to receive feedback c. Utilize technology to create more ways to offer feedback and suggestions 3. Enhance health and wellness programs and facility offerings to improve quality of life a. Design, develop, and improve park space to encourage more active areas b. Implement creative programs leveraging park features c. Encourage a broad range of fitness programs 4. Develop volunteer program engagement vision and values a. Create Volunteer Engagement and Onboarding Resource Guide b. Develop and Distribute an Online Volunteer Engagement & Best Practices Survey c. Provide quarterly Educational Resources on Volunteerism and Service to all Volunteer groups d. Grow the Essential Volunteer Service Programs Vision 2: Expand and strengthen experiences that contribute to the region’s attractiveness as a destination to live, work, and play 1. Preserve, protect, maintain, and enhance natural resources, parkland, and recreational opportunities a. Planning - Acquire appropriate land to expand existing park facilities and services b. Environment Design and program activities to be sensitive to the Parks’ environmental sustainability Community Services Strategic Plan 2024-2027 2 | Page MMPC Meeting Review 11.28.23 i. Utilize adaptive and native plants in landscape projects that are feasible and plant in the correct location ii. Develop planting and shade standards c. Maintaining parks, recreation, and open space as a vital element in the quality of life for residents i. Design walking path mapping and associated signage 2. Implement unique marketing strategies that highlight activities and inspire increased participation in Town offerings a. Create itineraries for parks, arts, and other programs b. Provide visitor resources in high-traffic locations, including parks c. Utilize social images to promote activities and programs d. Encourage awareness of Community Center convention space availability e. Create a Comprehensive Marketing Plan 3. Expand external organization use of parks and facilities a. Reach out to youth and adult sports organizations i. Explore expansion into skate, lacrosse, football, and soccer b. Continue to monitor market trends to stay competitive with those similar in the valley c. Increase Community Center multi-day conventions d. Continue to improve and maintain park amenities to accommodate growing and changing needs Vision 3: Optimize public awareness and safe, sustainable utilization of facilities, amenities, and open space 1. Provide a system of safety inspections and maintenance of all equipment and facilities and maintain safe/reliable facilities in an efficient/effective manner a. Parks i. Conduct annual amenity assessment in conjunction with Master Plan benchmarks ii. Perform bi-monthly playground safety inspections using Certified Playground Safety Inspector (CPSI) Standards iii. Develop a bi-annual facility inspection process to promote safety and efficiency b. Community Center i. Analyze and update policies and procedures ii. Work towards an updated maintenance request system with Facilities iii. Develop and train staff on evacuation and safety protocols Community Services Strategic Plan 2024-2027 3 | Page MMPC Meeting Review 11.28.23 2. Foster advocates that share and promote the extensive offerings within Community Services a. Integrate social messaging to expand outreach b. Develop and assign website monitoring for systematic and timely updates c. Create educational events to inspire park ambassadors d. Maintain monthly Community Center art displays and increase public awareness of art exhibits 3. Review and update rules and policies a. Align all rules within parks and facilities to be consistent on all platforms b. Track market trends for changing and modernizing policies and initiatives c. Diversify staff training opportunities to maintain industry-leading level expertise Vision 4: Actively seek progressive, future-oriented options for funding, operations, and programs 1. Create and advocate for additional open space and recreational areas a. Identify potential pocket park locations within town properties b. Integrate NRPA standards for land use criteria c. Utilize financial resources efficiently and equitably d. Review and adjust expenditures quarterly 2. Refine revenue-producing options throughout the department a. Review cost recovery pricing model to maximize revenue potential b. Maximize staff-run programs and consider options for expansion c. Research local organizations for program and instructor policies d. Expand revenue-generating options within the Community Center i. Evening hours: room availability, MOD model ii. Rental pricing models 3. Work towards alternative revenue sources a. Research and apply for appropriate grant opportunities b. Pursue sponsorships from local and large-scale businesses to expand programming and events Community Services Strategic Plan 2024-2027 4 | Page MMPC Meeting Review 11.28.23 c. Support the Finance Department in re-evaluating the Facility Replacement Fund Schedule d. Explore funding options to support essential services e. Evaluate the potential for Friends group – 501 (c)(3) f. Research the benefits of an in-house/freelance grant writer Vision 5: Lead with a collaborative spirit of teamwork within the industry, department, and community 1. Support department standing as a recognized leader in the community, state, and nation for park and recreation management a. Collaborate with State and Regional Representatives through government outlets, associations, and civic groups b. Participate with the NRPA, APRA, IFEA, Dark Skies, Dementia Friendly c. Develop and publish annual report standards d. Establish a committee to review CAPRA Accreditation 2. Continue to expand the level of public information and involvement in Community Services a. Enhance the public knowledge and appreciation of our natural beauty, open spaces, and historical surroundings b. Continue to showcase Community Services as an essential element of the Town 3. Encourage effective/efficient working relationships within the department and among community organizations a. Offer educational classes for residents highlighting best-known maintenance practices for landscaping b. Conduct local meetings at neighborhood parks to discuss projects c. Update/implement IGA’s and partnerships with community organizations d. Seek internal collaborations to enhance all aspects of the department 4. Provide opportunities for customer feedback a. Deliver positive customer experiences c. Host Community Services public outreach night twice a year d. Analyze program and event data that drive and guide planning efforts 5. Embrace education opportunities, cross-training of staff, and team building a. Create and participate in internal training; leverage digital training b. Develop internal “how-to” guides for Community Services procedures c. Improve operational and strategic communications d. Lead and engage in improving the industry through association participation (present, speak, board, commission, etc.) ITEM 8. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):   CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Sunsetting the MMPC  Staff Summary (Background) Attachments MMPC Sunset Recommendation  Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:28 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (MMPC)Sunset Recommendation Background In cooperation with Community Services for the Town of Fountain Hills,the MMPC ensures the application of the Preserve’s Guiding Principles which are:To preserve, conserve and protect the McDowell Mountain Preserve in its natural state. Appointed by the Fountain Hills Town Council,the MMPC is charged with: ●Maintaining the existing,undisturbed desert landscape of the Preserve ●Providing regulations that will protect wildlife habitats and limit human encroachment to specific areas within the Preserve ●Recommending use regulations for the Adero Canyon Trailhead (ACT)that grant public access into the Preserve ●Providing use regulations for the Golden Eagle Trailhead (GET),including access control into the Preserve through the McDowell Mountain Regional Park (MMRP) The main goal of the MMPC on its inception was to oversee the development of the Adero Canyon Trailhead (ACT). Accomplishments We are honored to have served on the Commission.We have accomplished the main goal of the MMPC as mentioned above.We would like to highlight some of the other key accomplishments. ●ACT Trailhead Completed ●Guidelines for the Management of the Preserve implemented ●Andrews Kinsey Trail which includes the alternate bike trail ●Lower Sonoran Trail ●10 year Trail Master Plan completed which included: ○Approval by the Town Council for six additional trails.Three trails have already been built *.Three additional trails were approved June 2023 ** ○Ridgeline *(Completed 2020) ○Lower Ridgeline *(Completed (2022) ○North Leg *(Completed 2023) ○Overlook connection to Easy Access Trail ** ○Middle Trail (temporary name)above Sonoran /Promenade ** ○High Trail (temporary name)above Sonoran /Promenade ** Once the final trail is built,we consider the Preserve to be “built out”which is consistent with the approved Trail Master Plan. At present,we have accomplished all the goals established for the MMPC. Moving forward The Sonoran Conservancy of Fountain Hills (SCFH). The SCFH is a 501(c)(3)non-profit organization established to protect and promote the Fountain Hills McDowell Mountain Preserve,Fountain Hills Desert Botanical Garden and Lake Overlook Trail for the benefit of the community.It is a volunteer led organization and has no paid staff.SCFHs work is supported by contributions received from the public. The primary objectives of the Conservancy are to: ●Support the Town's operational and maintenance priorities ●Provide recreational opportunities to enjoy these natural assets ●Provide educational opportunities to promote the value of these natural assets ●Advocate and take appropriate action to minimize any impact to the Town's natural resources While the primary goals of the MMPC have been met,we could continue to function in an advisory capacity to the Town.However,we feel the needs could be better served through the Conservancy (SCFH). In our consideration to sunset the MMPC we are suggesting that the SCFH,as an operational entity,is better positioned to work effectively with the Town’s Community Services group without the MMPC.The Conservancy’s mission and objectives relative to the Preserve and the Town’s other open spaces is already well served by its Trailblazers,Trailhead Hosts,Hike Stewards,Subject Matter Experts, and Desert Botanical Garden members who perform the activities to meet its goals. The majority of the MMPC Commissioners are SCFH volunteers.The SCFH would seriously consider adding,as appropriate,MMPC commissioners to the Conservancy’s board. The SCFH meets regularly with the Community Services Director and this will not change. In our recommendation to sunset the MMPC,we suggest the SCFH shall present the status of the development of the trails and issues related to the Preserve and the Towns open spaces to the Community Services Advisory Commission (CSAC) semi-annually.Additional presentations are at the discretion of the Town and CSAC. We are recommending the sunset of the MMPC effective Jan 1,2024. ITEM 9. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):   CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Naming of Two Recently Approved Trails  Staff Summary (Background) Commissioner Willard provided the following: Input for trail names: 1.  "Saguaro View" trail for the trail to be built above the Sonoran Trail 2.  "High Sonoran" trail for the trail to be built higher up.   Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:26 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  ITEM 10. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  UPDATE AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Fountain Hills Trail System Designation as National Recreational Trails by the Secretary of the Interior Staff Summary (Background) Attachments NRT Key Points  NRT Webinar Information  Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:29 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  NRT Key Points • About 10 new Trails designated each year since 1969 • Application is not complicated; some tedious points but many of the actively designated trails don’t have all fields filled a. https://www.nrtapplication.org/trails/arivaca-creek-trail no running length, https://www.nrtapplication.org/trails/arivaca-creek-trail, all detail info is blank • Need to pick the trail • Fill out the application • Owner Consent and Signature • State Trail Administrator Support NRT Webinar (June 2023) Current NRT list Trail Eligibility A trail is a travel way established either through construction or use and is passable by at least one or more of the following, including but not limited to: foot traffic, stock, equestrian, watercraft, bicycles,in-line skates, wheelchairs, cross-country skis, off- road recreation vehicles such as motorcycles, snowmobiles, ATVs, and four-wheel drive vehicles. Roads and highways suitable for passenger car travel are not eligible for NRT designation. Bayside Trail. Credit: NPS Trail Eligibility The trail must be open to public use, have no gaps, and be designed, constructed, and maintained according to best management practices, in keeping with the use anticipated. Trails that demonstrate state-of-the-art design and management are especially encouraged to apply for NRT designation. Benefits National Database Signag e Photo Contest Ambassador Program Funding Opportunities Benefits - Signage Upon Designation •Two 8”x8” metal signs •Three 3.5”x3.5” metal signs After Designation •Free plastics signs upon request •Low cost metal signs How to Apply - USDA If your trail is on federal land administered by (or associated with) the US Department of Agriculture: The USDA Forest Service has authority for designating NRTs on land administered by the Department of Agriculture (National Forests, National Grasslands, and National Recreation Areas) and associated lands. Proposed NRTs on U.S. Forest Service lands are nominated and approved using an internal application with specific criteria. Lakeshore Trail. Credit: Kristy Canright ITEM 11. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  UPDATE: Sonoran Conservancy Fountain Hills Liaison Staff Summary (Background) 1.  Season Underway - Annual volunteer training completed November 5, 2023. 2.  Successful Hike Challenge Started November 1, 2023. 3.  Participant surveys of SCFH events reflect positively. 4.  Registration for SCFH events is up over last year. Survey Summary:  How Did You Hear About Us?     Facebook - 164 How Did You Hear About Us?     Friend/Family - 173 How Did You Hear About Us?     Instagram- 4 How Did You Hear About Us?     Newsletter/Email- 223 How Did You Hear About Us?     Newspaper- 95 How Did You Hear About Us?     Previous Participant - 284   Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:40 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  ITEM 12. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  UPDATE: Stayloc Installation at Entryway Staff Summary (Background) Due to unforeseen delays, the Stayloc Installation project will begin the week of November 27, 2023.  Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/14/2023 02:40 PM Final Approval Date: 11/14/2023  ITEM 13. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  UPDATE: Installation of  New Trail Counters Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:41 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  ITEM 14. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  UPDATE: Trail Counter Activity Staff Summary (Background) Attachments October 2023 Trail Counter Report  Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:42 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  2023 Trail Counter Activity Botanical Garden Lake Overlook Andrews Kinsey/ Western Loop Overlook/ Ridgeline ACT Promenade ACT Parking January 1,606 7,320 4,123 2,814 12,997 9,621 February 1,487 7,121 4,367 4,045 13,140 12,735 March 2,499 9,377 4,770 9,325 17,440 14,439 April 1,574 6,175 3,033 4,277 10,836 11,911 May 660 3,308 2,454 1,741 5,045 5,102 June 556 2,420 1,248 1,156 3,108 3,075 July 302 1388 602 562 1,462 1,976 August 284 1,362 748 606 1,734 2,388 September 474 1,830 1,162 1,210 3,132 3,258 October 777 3,695 1,887 2,115 5,605 4,620 November December YTD 10,219 43,996 24,394 27,851 74,499 69,125 Red is a calculated estimate ITEM 15. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  UPDATE: Future Agenda Items Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:43 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023  ITEM 16. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS STAFF REPORT    Meeting Date: 11/28/2023 Meeting Type: McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission Agenda Type:                   Submitting Department: Community Services Prepared by: Patti Lopuszanski, Executive Assistant Staff Contact Information: Kevin Snipes, Community Services Director Request to McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission (Agenda Language):  UPDATE: Next MMPC Meeting January 22, 2024 Staff Summary (Background) Form Review Form Started By: Patti Lopuszanski Started On: 11/07/2023 10:43 AM Final Approval Date: 11/07/2023