HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024.0820TCRM.Minutes
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL August 20, 2024
A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:30 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember Allen Skillicorn
Members Absent: Councilmember Peggy McMahon Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Acting Town Clerk Angela Padgett-Espiritu
Audience: Approximately 30 members of the public were present.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 1 of 51
Post-Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
Council Meeting Minutes
August 20, 2024
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
* * * * *
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
* * * * *
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 2 of 51
DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome back after the summer. Please rise for the
pledge and remain standing if you choose for the invocation.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic
for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
DICKEY: Thank you so much. Our invocation tonight is from JOY Church, Pastor Clayton
Wilfer.
Hi.
WILFER: Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for this town and all who live here. We
thank you for the ability to come together to share thoughts and ideas on how to make
an ever better place to live and work. We pray for your wisdom and guidance to be with
this town council. May you guide their hearts and minds as they work together for the
sake of this town. May you provide unity, harmony, and strength for the work that is
ahead. And we pray this in the name of Jesus. Amen.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Angela, can we have roll call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
DICKEY: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: And for the record, Councilmember McMahon is absent.
Anyone wishing to address the Council regarding items listed on the agenda or
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 3 of 51
under Call to the Public should fill out a Request to Comment card, located in the back
of the Council Chambers and hand it to the Town Clerk prior to consideration of that
agenda item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into the
microphone, and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments to
three minutes.
It is the policy of the Mayor and Council to not comment on items brought forth
under Call to the Public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the Council at
a future date or to schedule items raised for a future Council agenda.
DICKEY: Thanks so much.
Well, we're going to start with our reports and we're going to start with our
Town Manager, Rachael, who is -- part of her report is going to include some
information from our Chief Ott. Just to remind you that this is the -- just the report, so
we won't be able to really ask a lot of questions, but we'll get some information. Thank
you.
GOODWIN: Thank you, Mayor, Council.
Welcome back, everyone. I feel like it's only been a minute, but it has been a full
summer.
And welcome back, everybody. Thanks for being here tonight.
We did have a very full summer. I'm not going to go into all of the ins and outs,
but we had a number of activities and programs and events. It has been a very busy
summer, despite the heat.
But I did want to call out the anticipation of one upcoming event, our Make A
Difference Day. It happens the third weekend in October, so October 19. If it's not on
your calendar, please mark your calendar. It is a very popular day. It is a day of
volunteer and service where we help those in our community with whatever needs they
may have.
We have 31 different projects registered right now. We are still taking projects
through the end of the month, so August 30 is the deadline. So if you have a neighbor, a
friend, a colleague, or maybe even a need for yourself, there's still time to get your
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 4 of 51
project registered. Contact Kim over at our Community Center. She can take care of
that.
Alternately, if you are available to volunteer that day, we have usually over 400
volunteers from our community come out. We are taking those right now. You are able
to register online, so that is a super day of service in our community.
I did want to stop and recognize Angela. Angela's going to be serving as our
Town Clerk our next couple of meetings, so thanks for being here, Angela.
And then lastly, I did want to invite Chief Ott up. As many know, we've had a
number of fires. We had a fire on Friday and I think Chief Ott was going to walk through
some of the details from that day and the response that was offered.
OTT: Good evening, Mayor and Council, welcome back.
Before we get into the specifics of Friday's call, I just want to remind everybody
of kind of the system that we work in. Once we transitioned to our own and we're
dispatched by Mesa Regional Dispatch, we've got a dispatch center that's tied into
Phoenix. It gives us a lot more capability than what we had under our previous
emergency response structure.
With that, there are two different components to the valley-wide regional
system. One is automatic aid, one is mutual aid. Currently, we're in the mutual aid
status, which means that we have to ask for requests from our neighboring
departments. We have an arrangement with Fort McDowell, then we have what we call
an enhanced mutual aid system. Because we're both dispatched by Mesa, they dispatch
us almost like we have automatic aid.
Our goal is to apply for the automatic aid -- entrance into the automatic aid
system starting in January. We kind of wanted a year or so to get our feet on the
ground and make sure that we're doing what we need to do here and all the
components that go along with that.
So we're working on our application that we're going to present to the Central
Arizona Life Safety Council somewhere after their first meeting in January of 2025,
which will let us know whether or not we've got some acceptance. There's about 15 or
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 5 of 51
16 different bullet points that need to be addressed as part of that automatic aid
system.
What automatic aid does is it will dispatch the closest unit regardless of the
jurisdiction that they're in. So if we have a call -- if our units from Station 2 are out on a
call, we would get the next closest unit coming from Scottsdale into that. We're already
working with Fort McDowell. We also have a mutual aid agreement with Rio Verde.
What that will do in the event of a bigger event is it will have those responses that are
built out that have multiple units tied to them. We'll be able to get those seamlessly
once we're in that automatic aid system.
If we stay in the mutual aid system, it's still going to be a request. Typically, that
request is if you've got somebody, you can send them.
So with that in mind as we're moving forward, ideally in a town that's got two
fire stations and ten personnel on day, there are times that we have three or four calls,
or five calls at a time, where we've got Fort McDowell responding in, we've got Rio
Verde responding in. Sometimes we respond out to Fort McDowell.
Sometimes Fort McDowell takes care of crashes that are on the Beeline that are
really not in a service area, but because we've all agreed that there are plenty of people
that live in town, plenty of people from the Indian community that travel Beeline, it's in
our best interests to go ahead and respond to calls out there. Sometimes they're
medical calls, sometimes they're fire-related calls.
If we can get that first initial attack in there and kind of start getting units on the
scene, that's a big plus in the world of wildland fires. And we've had -- according to the
State, I think we've had 23 fires up in that area just since the middle of May.
So that brings us back to Friday's event where there was a fire in Goldfield
Ranch; Fort McDowell requested a unit from us to go out and assist them with that fire,
which we did. We sent one unit from Station 1, which is our closest unit out to the
Goldfield area. We still had the latter tender the unit from Station 2 in town, prior to
that fire kicking out around 10 o'clock on Friday in Eagle's Nest. We had an EMS call
that put the engine from Station 2 on that call. We also had another EMS call shortly
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 6 of 51
before that fire started, which we asked Rio Verde. Rio Verde came in and ran that call
for us.
So not only did we have multiple calls going on, we did have units in town. We
had units from an outside agency in town that also ended up transitioning into a fire in
Eagle's Nest.
So with that, if there's any questions on the auto aid, mutual aid, I can go into
MRDC, TRWC, PRDC (ph.), a whole alphabet of stuff that all kind of goes together with
that overall automatic aid system. And at this point, of the municipal departments --
there's about 26 of them -- I believe at this point we're probably the only municipality
that's not in automatic aid yet, so that's our goal. That'll kind of make things seamless.
And as we look at that during the fire on Friday, we also had a unit from Mesa
come up to run calls in Fountain Hills, as we had 18 other units assigned to that fire in
Eagle's Nest.
To kind of recap it in a short scope, there were no structures burned or lost.
There were no injuries or fatalities, civilian or sworn. It was a 13-acre fire that was
wrapped up in less than four hours in the middle of the summer. In my opinion, that's a
win all the way around.
So if you have any questions before -- I'll go to the timeline.
Okay. I don't know if you have that in front of you in your stuff or not, but -- so
the first call came in at 9:58. And I'll explain a little bit about how the calls work.
When you call 911, it'll go to what we call the PSAP, which is the public-safety
answering point. In most jurisdictions that PSAP is the law enforcement agency,
because they put a higher value on law enforcement-related calls than fire and EMS
calls. So the police agency is usually better equipped to be able to sort those calls out
and get them to where they need to go.
So in that, there's usually a little bit of a delay. There was a little bit longer delay
when MRDC received a call, and that's Mesa Regional Dispatch. Sometimes when the
call centers get busy and there are other things and they triage the call when it comes
in, or they have multiple calls, there is a little bit of a delay in getting that out. And a
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 7 of 51
priority call would be someone having a stroke or a heart attack might take preference
over a brush fire or a fire that's not involving a structure. If there's a structure fire with
reports of people trapped or that -- again, that would bump up right up there in that top
tier of the triage of it. But there's a number of reasons why there could be a delay in
there. I can't speak for the MRDC side of it. I can only kind of tell you -- walk you
through the timeline as it pertains to us.
So MRDC gets the call at 10:05. At 10:07, it's entered into the computer-aided
dispatch, which means that that call taker is now taking information, trying to figure out
the pertinent stations to assign to it and what are the resources that should be added to
that call.
At 10:12, the first MCSO deputy arrived on scene. That's typical for us because
they generally get the call first. They'll grab some information out of that and then
dispatch a deputy or deputies to that call.
At 10:17, Engine 415 [sic] was dispatched on that fire from the Goldfield fire.
Keep in mind, LT452 and Engine 441 were in town on EMS calls. Had we not had
the Goldfield fire and we had two EMS calls at one time, that pretty much taxes the
units that we have available in town to run that. So we would have to ask for somebody
else to come in.
We already asked for Rio Verde to come in. Phoenix dispatched us Scottsdale.
Scottsdale was also working an incident in Paradise Valley, which kind of shifts some of
their resources to cover now all of Scottsdale. Just a little more background on that.
So at 10:20 -- we had originally asked for mutual aid from Scottsdale. At 10:20,
we're still waiting for the approval. Because it's a mutual aid setup, we have to ask for
approval. It's not an automatic dispatch.
At 10:28, I arrived on the scene.
At 10:31, Phoenix approved three more units. Again, we're asking the Phoenix
system for additional units for this fire, knowing that we had Engine 451 coming. LT 452
was also clearing. Engine 441 was in town, also clearing. Tried to turn their patients
over for transport. So Phoenix approved three units, which was Engine 52, Brush 52,
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 8 of 51
BC6, and Car 919, which is a specialty wildland response.
At 10:33 Engine 292, which was also out at Goldfield, arrived on scene. Brush
451, BC451, and BC291 also came in at that point.
At 10:35, Engine 441 arrived.
At 10:37, you can see there's that delay in Scottsdale being able to get units
available to send to us, but they did send three units, Engine 606, Brush 613, and
Battalion 602.
Engine 451 arrives on scene after coming back around from Goldfield.
LT 452 and Brush 452 were on scene next.
401, again coming from the Goldfield fire, was on scene. Brush 401 arrived
shortly after that.
Engine 606 arrived on scene shortly after that. Brush 613 was with them as
well, and then their Battalion Chief also was on scene.
So we had about 18 units for what ended up being a 13-acre fire.
There's times that we're going to have extended response times just because of
the layout that we've got, the setup of our department, the fact that we have two
engines, and a lot of times we get multiple calls at the same time and it will be quiet for
four or five hours and then -- we kind of call it the Fountain Hills vortex -- you'll get four
or five calls at the same time and sometimes we'll get two back-to-back at Fountain
View Village. So that just takes up manpower.
We did have -- the State duty officer was on his way to Goldfield to wrap up that
fire. He came to our fire instead, so we also had resources from the State available had
we needed it, had that taken off and run up into the park. That's their area, but we
have a pretty good relationship with DFFM right now and had they needed air assets or
an increase in manpower, we had that available to us because we had that duty officer
right there on scene with us.
So kind of keeping a fire to 13 acres in the middle of the summer here in that
desert area out there where I've seen it run from one end of the park to the other. I
think our crews, all of them involved, did an outstanding job.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 9 of 51
We also had DFFM. He brought in a Tonto crew that had been going to Goldfield
that got rerouted to us and they went through and did a lot of mop-up in some of the
hot spots, a little bit of the saw work in there. And then they were gone by about 1:30,
1:40.
So with that, I will take any questions.
DICKEY: So Aaron, I'm going to leave it to you to stop anybody if we get too far on this,
because again it wasn't on the agenda. It was just something that we felt we wanted to
address after Friday.
ARNSON: Yeah. And Mayor and Council, thank you.
And by way of sort of background information, given that it's not on the agenda,
if there are any substantive questions or questions about procedure, other than a brief
follow-up question, I'd encourage you to ask those offline to ensure that we're
complying with the Open Meeting Law.
DICKEY: That makes sense to me. Thank you.
Thank you, Chief. We appreciate it.
OTT: Have a good evening.
DICKEY: Hannah, Councilwoman?
TOTH: So we had a very eventful summer and I was thrilled by the Fourth at the
Fountain this year.
As Rachael mentioned, there are some upcoming events in town. I really highly
encourage anybody who is able to, to get involved with Make a Difference Day. I have
not had the chance to do it yet because it's October and I work in politics, but I look
very, very forward to being there with bells on next year.
Jokes aside, it is a really wonderful thing that our community does and I highly
encourage anybody who is able to, to be a part of that.
GRZYBOWSKI: I always feel like I'm in the fifth grade -- what I did over the summer. I
love the first day back after summer because that's always how I feel, is kind of a shoot
back to the fifth grade. Unfortunately, I don't get to do as much fun stuff as I did back
then because I was a kid and had no responsibilities.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 10 of 51
So to keep it short, I had a few Greater Phoenix Economic Council meetings this
summer, one with the Phoenix East Valley Infrastructure and Transportation
Committee, and I also attended virtually a National League of Cities meeting. Those are
always informative and a great way to hear about concerns from other areas of the
country and how they deal with it as well.
So welcome back, everybody and thank you.
FRIEDEL: Just a couple quick things, thank you, Mayor.
The 4th of July was spectacular, well-attended, big crowd, great fireworks. So it
was a big treat for the town.
And then to circle back on Make a Difference Day, it's a great opportunity for the
town to come together and work on projects and help out people in need of that help.
So make sure you get out there, if you can.
Thank you, Mayor.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Yeah, it is really good to be back and serving the people in person, livestreaming
on Cox Channel 11 and on YouTube. Just like Sharron said, you know, it's a busy
summer. You know, a lot of constituent contacts, a lot of meetings that, you know, at
this point would be boring.
So instead of looking back at what I did, there's just a few forward-thinking
things that I'd like to mention, the first of which is Fountain Hills Cares is going to
October 24th at 4:30 in the Community Center. This time it'll be about situational
awareness and travel awareness. These are really important topics right now and I'm
really glad that we're taking that on.
Just think of nature and think of how animals are always looking around and
always prepared for predators. Unfortunately, human beings don't take that cue from
nature and they go on their cell phones and they're walking around and they run into
light poles and then they walk in the fountains. And unfortunately, they become huge
targets for predators that are going to come and grab their purse or do them harm
because they're just not paying attention.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 11 of 51
And so we have some exciting speakers to talk about how you can prevent
yourself from being a victim. And also what we're going to do with travel as well at
airports, bus stations, train stations.
So there are people out there that are predators and they're looking for people
to take advantage of. And so this is a really important Fountain Hills Cares. I encourage
everybody to come out.
I would also like to talk about Brian Schader and the Fountain of Light sculpture
that he designed and constructed. What a beautiful thing. I think it's wonderful. It sits
beautifully. They're going to hook up lights so it's going to be illuminated at light. I'd
like to thank the FHCCA, the Public Art Committee. Brian, of course. (Indiscernible)
building the base. It's a really exciting prospect and I drive by it every day and I'm really
happy it's there.
The other thing I'd like to talk about is communication with your town
councilmembers. At the meeting, you know, we've got the Call to the Public. We have
comment cards. But probably the best way if you are passionate about an issue is to let
us know a week or a little time before the meeting, so we can converse.
There's nothing worse than a constituent that will write me three days after a
vote and say Brenda, I'm really disappointed in that vote and these are the reasons why,
one, two, three, four, five. And I'm like, boy, those are really good reasons. I wish you
would've brought that to my attention a week ago.
And so if you want input -- if there's things that you want to input -- all of us on
the council -- and you know, don't be afraid before the meeting to give us time to
reflect. Because tonight we read the comment cards and we hear the comments, but
we've also all been preparing, you know, these lengthy packets and doing our own
research. So let us know ahead of time.
And so that's what I'd like to talk about tonight. And again, thanks to all for
coming.
SKILLICORN: Thank you very much.
Well, welcome back, everyone. It's great to -- you know, summer's not over yet.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 12 of 51
The summer vacation is over for council.
I actually just want to echo that last point. It's been such a joy the last couple
weeks to start getting emails again about issues. I encourage the public to continue to
send in their questions, their thoughts. It's your town, guys.
So thank you very much and there's going to be more information coming out to
everyone that has been emailing in.
Thank you so much.
DICKEY: Thank you all.
Like Sharron, I was ready to talk about my summer vacation, but for me it was
kind of like vacation in quotes.
We did have two Fountain Hills Cares planning meetings. Thank you for bringing
that up.
We had the State of the Chamber breakfast. It seems like a long time ago.
Had a meeting of my Arizona Mayors Education Roundtable.
We had business meetings here with Park Place, with Hilton Spark, their
downtown strategy and public art and more.
We did our welcome to -- I was able to welcome folks to the Fourth on [sic] the
Fountain, so that's always a wonderful event.
We said goodbye and thank you to some staff members, had some donuts and
other things like that to say thank you.
Speaking of -- I shouldn't say that. I was going to say speaking of, we cheered
Coffee with a Cop over at Target and some firefighters may have made it onto the scene
there. And obviously, we have a lot of residents that like to come to that, and then
encouraged them to hang out and go shopping, which I usually do.
MAG Regional Council, this was our annual meeting, so we elected our new
chair, who is Chandler Mayor, Kevin Hartke.
I had my League Executive Committee meeting.
We kicked off the first Mayors Youth Council meeting.
And then this morning, I had our Canada Arizona Business Council project. I'm
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 13 of 51
on the board for the Project Medical Travel Board and we're also starting one for
snowbirds. So they're very, very involved with economic development and where
Fountain Hills can fit in with all that.
And then last we had -- over the summer, I was glad to see that we continued
with our ribbon cutting. So some of them were outside and some of them were inside,
but they were all good. It was really good to see that activity over the summer.
I wanted to mention the Fountain Hills Protect Our Youth Coalition launched
something called Protect Our Game, a campaign to combat the fentanyl crisis in
partnership with the Town of Fountain Hills and support of those opioid settlement
funds. I mention that because tomorrow is National Fentanyl Awareness Day and if you
want information, it's fhcoalition.org.
I also have a proclamation tonight. Is Christian Romo here from DES?
Hi. Yeah, come on up, sir, and I will present that.
Hi, how are you?
ROMO: Okay.
DICKEY: Okay. So here's (indiscernible).
ROMO: Oh, perfect. Thank you.
DICKEY: And I'll read the proclamation and then you can say something.
ROMO: After you.
DICKEY: Perfect.
So whereas the Town of Fountain Hills joins the nation in recognizing August as
Child Support Awareness Month and reaffirms its commitment to strengthening
Arizona's families by providing child support services to improve the economic stability
and well-being of children, and whereas the State of Arizona will always be committed
advocates for our children, whose safety and security remains top of mind and a child
who receives emotional and financial support is more likely to feel safe and secure and
better-equipped with the courage to live their best life, and whereas the Department of
Economic Security, the Child Support Services, which we say DCSS, is committed to
putting Arizona's children first and to humbly serving Arizonans with excellence, respect,
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 14 of 51
integrity, and kindness, as well as being an overall champion for economic growth and
opportunity.
DCSS strongly advocates for parenting responsibilities because parents and
children benefit when both are engaged with their child at every stage, regardless of
marital status. DCSS recognizes the commitment of legal guardians who accept
responsibilities for children in the absence of their parents.
And whereas strengthening individuals and families with an emphasis on fiscal
responsibility promotes the safety and wellbeing of children, it provides stability, it
improves the lives of these children, and provides opportunities for families to be able
to enhance their children's future, and whereas Child Support Awareness Month values
parents' involvement in their child's lives to make regular child support payments to
safeguard their children's future, so therefore now I, Ginny Dickey, Mayor of the Town
of Fountain Hills, do hereby proclaim that the month of August 2024 as Child Support
Awareness Month on this 20th day of August, 2024.
Thank you.
ROMO: Awesome. Well, thank you for the proclamation, Mayor. I very much
appreciate that.
Every year the month of August is federally recognized as Child Support
Awareness Month throughout the United States, so all child support jurisdictions get to
celebrate August in support of child support. And every year here in Arizona, we ask
Arizona's governor, mayor -- excuse me, towns, cities, and county board of supervisors
to help highlight the significance that child support plays for Arizona's families.
So I want to thank you, Mayor, for signing the proclamation. Thank you, Town
Council, for allowing me to be a part of the meeting.
And that's it. Thank you all.
DICKEY: Thank you so much.
All right. So we have no presentations tonight, so we'll go right to Call to the
Public.
Do we have any cards?
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 15 of 51
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes, we do.
DICKEY: Thank you.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: The Town received seven written comments, which you'll find in
the tab next to your packet. And then we have two requests to speak.
So first up will be Susan Dempster, and then second will be Kim Wolborsky.
DEMPSTER: Good evening, Mayor, Council. Thank you for the opportunity.
So my name is Susan Dempster. I've been a resident of Fountain Hills for 17-plus
years. I'm here speaking tonight about the Quail Ridge wash and Colony wash that runs
along behind Morningside and the pump that was recently installed on Panorama.
There was a public notice that was posted in July of 2024, stating that the Town
had filed an application of December of 2023, and this was for a permit to appropriate
the water. The notice lists the source of the water as an unnamed wash, a tributary
Colony wash -- a tributary to Colony wash within the Verde River watershed. The
proposed use was stated as using 300 acre feet per year for municipal use.
Several of the Morningside residents as a result of this posting did file a protest
to this request for several reasons. I'd like to speak about a few here.
The water that's been restricted used to flow into this Quail and Colony wash,
really creating the most beautiful riparian area. And I live there and I sit out there and I
enjoy this very much, and there are several residents here that also live along Quail
Ridge. As far as we could tell, the water has been flowing there for over 30 years and
this was truly a thriving site, full of plants and wildlife.
However, since the pump had been installed, this has depleted the water from
our private property and I'd like to note that Morningside HOA does own the washes
surrounding this subdivision.
So the water's been depleted and it's damaged the plants and animals, and in
addition, now at the site where the pump is it's stagnant water, which we're concerned
that it could be a breeding zone for mosquitoes.
So we have a lot of questions, but I just want to point out a few factual things.
And one of the pressing questions is, shouldn't the source of the water be determined
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 16 of 51
before a project of this magnitude is moved forward upon?
And there was a water test completed last year, but it was inconclusive. But
they never ruled out -- they did not say that the source was not spring water, which
we're thinking it's spring water or ground water. The Arizona Department of Water
Resources noted in a report in 2012 after the lake was drained that there was still water
surfacing, which could indicate that this is ground or spring water.
There was not an environmental impact assessment completed and we feel this
is very important.
There are riparian water rights and they are subject to reasonable use of water,
stating the water user cannot interfere with the reasonable use of a downstream
riparian landowner. And --
DICKEY: Susan, are you almost --
DEMPSTER: Oh, yes. Yep, thank you.
DICKEY: Thanks.
DEMPSTER: Over half of all the animal species in Arizona depend on riparian habitats
for their existence and riparian areas are amongst the most productive ecosystems in
the world. And we just ask to have some water flow back and perhaps do another
water test and an environmental impact assessment.
Thank you for the extra time. Thank you.
WOLBORSKY: I'm Kim Wolborsky and I have been a resident of Fountain Hills for almost
five years. The best town in the world.
I try to come up here and not say anything unkind, and I try to be thoughtful and
I've just got to say this because I was just so shocked by it.
My husband Barry and I attended the Town Council's meeting to canvass and
approve the Mayor and Council votes last week. There were only a few of us in the
audience. It was really interesting and I recommend it. This portion of the meeting was
very short and very sweet.
But the other order of the business were the Mayor, Council and staff to take the
opportunity to say farewell to our dedicated and ever-cheerful Town Clerk, Linda
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 17 of 51
Mendenhall, who's moving to Texas to clerk for a larger town. The statements were
kind, appreciative, and all about Linda, until Councilmember Peggy McMahon spoke.
After repeating Linda's credentials which Councilwoman Kalivianakis had just
listed -- and there are a lot of them, she's great -- Ms. McMahon used her time to bring
up the lawsuit involving the petition. And while she did this, she attacked
Councilmember Gerry Friedel by name, along with others on the Council.
This cast an ugly haze on the entire event and it was really unfair to Linda. When
Councilman Friedel spoke, he rightly mentioned that this wasn't the time or the place
for this kind of talk.
I personally wonder if Councilmember McMahon was using the opportunity to
do some campaigning. Councilmember Friedel is running for Mayor in this election. It's
well-known that she doesn't support him.
I've heard Ms. McMahon mention that she's taken a civility course. Perhaps she
needs a refresher.
And I bring this up because -- first, because it was just so upsetting. It was such a
nice evening and I was so upset about it, but also to have the Council just in general
remember, you know, that we're listening and you know, this is -- what you say affects
everyone in the audience. And, you know, we're asked to be civil and I'd like you to,
too.
And I didn't want to just say that to the Council. I used to work for a place;
whenever anybody did something, they'd come and make a rule for all of us. So I
wanted to say what brought it up.
But thank you for your time.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Do we have any more speaker cards?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: No, we do not.
DICKEY: Okay. Just on that note, if the Councilwoman was here this would be an
opportunity -- she would be able to respond.
And then about the spring water or the wash, staff is going to be talking and
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 18 of 51
getting in contact. There's a lot of moving parts with that. So we appreciate that as
well.
Okay. Our next item is our Consent Agenda. Do I have a motion, please?
GRZYBOWSKI: Move to approve.
KALIVIANAKIS: Second.
DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: (Inaudible).
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
DICKEY: Aye.
Thank you.
Yeah, we didn't hear one, so we're just kind of laughing about it.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Oh --
TOTH: It was aye, sorry.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Thank you.
DICKEY: So it's six -- sorry, six to nothing. Okay, great. Thank you.
Our first regular agenda item is about a Special Use Permit.
Rachael, is this -- let's see. Thank you.
GOODWIN: Mayor and Council, just for an update, usually you see John join us for these
conversations. However, John is under the weather tonight, so Farhad's going to take
the lead.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 19 of 51
DICKEY: Thank you.
TAVASSOLI: Okay, great.
Thank you, Madam Mayor and members of the Council, welcome back.
What you have before you is a Special Use Permit extension request for the
address at 16828 East El Pueblo, which is near Fountain Hills Boulevard and El Pueblo,
just north of town.
A little bit of background. I was going to highlight some portions of the zoning
ordinance before I get into the details of this extension request. But residential uses in a
commercial zoning district, which is in fact the zoning designation for this address that I
just recited, it requires an approval of an SUP. They must submit for a -- or the applicant
must submit for a building permit within six months or the SUP expires. However, the
applicant may request an extension to the SUP.
So in this case, Council considered and approved a Special Use Permit for seven
units at the address I just mentioned on September 19th of 2023. It consists of seven
residential units on the lots that you see here on the lower left, and as well as just -- I
provided the southside elevation in case that -- the case might ring any bells.
But again, this was approved on September 19th. The applicant was required to
submit a site plan by six months later, so by March 19th. That was actually when the
applicant requested an extension to the Special Use Permit.
Now, through no fault of the applicant, this extension request came to light a
little bit late. That's why you're seeing this right now, after the summer break.
But I want to inform you that a site plan has recently been submitted and since
last September, there have been no significant changes in the neighborhood or
requirements since the approval of the SUP. We haven't gotten any, you know,
additional comments regarding the SUP since its approval. Up until the SUP was
approved, we did receive neighborhood support.
Staff is recommending approval of a six-month extension in this case, which
means that a building permit must be obtained by the applicant by January of next year,
January 20th of next year.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 20 of 51
The applicant is here to explain how things are going with regards to his project,
but with that I'll end my comments and open up to questions or a discussion.
DICKEY: Does anybody have any questions about this? Do we have any speaker cards?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: No, we do not.
DICKEY: Okay. Oh, yes, sir?
FRIEDEL: Move to extend the approval of SUP 23-000006 to January 20th, '25.
TOTH: Second.
DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please? How many zeros were that?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: (Indiscernible) zeros in there.
Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
DICKEY: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: The motion passes six to zero.
DICKEY: Thank you. Thanks a lot.
TAVASSOLI: Thank you.
DICKEY: Our next item is -- let's see. Exemptions for a license for peddlers, canvassers,
and solicitors.
Hi, Paul.
SOLDINGER: All right. Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and Councilmembers. It's
nice to be back in front of the dais. Bear with me a little bit because I will be filling in for
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 21 of 51
John tonight and hopefully I can answer any questions that you may have.
So just a little bit of background on this agenda item. Our current Town Code,
Article 8-2, provides regulations for peddlers, canvassers, and solicitors, or door-to-door
salespeople. This Town Code item was last updated in 2016 and a particular section
provides exemptions from this requirement for door-to-door salespeople that are selling
magazines and newspapers.
There have been some recent situations where concerned citizens in town have
reported some disturbing situations with these salespeople and therefore, if we had a
license requirement in place or if this exemption was removed, we'd have a little bit
more information about people that are going door-to-door selling newspapers and
magazines. And we also are recommending a few other changes that would benefit this
section of Town Code.
So the proposed amendments are pretty straightforward. We're clarifying that
persons who are collecting these payments are persons that are representing certain
organizations and we're striking number 4 there on the screen, which would just
remove that exemption for the door-to-door salespeople for newspaper and magazine
subscriptions.
And for this particular item, we're also recommending that we remove garage
sales from this section, this part of Town Code because it's already exempt from the
business license requirements in another portion of Town Code, so it really seemed
unnecessary for this section and that's why we're proposing striking all this information
on your screen as well.
And our staff recommendation is to adopt the resolution as presented and I'm
open for any questions that you have.
DICKEY: Thank you very much.
Rachael?
GOODWIN: Mayor, just to add on.
Thank you for pinch-hitting tonight. I appreciate it, Paul.
I think it's notable that this item actually came to us via a staff member. It
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 22 of 51
actually came from Rhonda Brenneman. If you all know Rhonda, she's our customer
service rep up front. She knows everything about everything. She is a fantastic
representative to our community. And she was getting calls about this, about door-to-
door magazine and newspaper sales and people were concerned. Why are they here?
Are they allowed to be here? They can't answer my question.
So there was concern from the community and she raised it through the staff for
us to review the ordinance, look at it, see if there's a way to answer that call. So I really
wanted to thank her for her listening ear to our community and then sharing that with
the staff to make sure that we could do this and make these updates.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Do we have any speaker cards?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: No, we do not.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Yeah, I just want to comment, actually, to John -- I hope he gets well -- and to
you as his advocate, this is a really nice piece of work. It's a really nice ordinance. I
really appreciate the laser-like focus on magazine and newspaper subscriptions.
And also if you look at Section 1 in 8-2-4, it gives a whole laundry list of people
that are excluded. Because as soon as I saw this, I'm like are we going to run too big of a
net? But not only did we laser-focus who was going to be covered, but we also did all
the exemptions and who this doesn't pertain to.
So this is like a piece of genius and I just want to pass along this is a really good
ordinance.
SOLDINGER: I'll let John know. Thank you, Vice Mayor.
KALIVIANAKIS: I'd appreciate it.
DICKEY: Sharron?
GRZYBOWSKI: Actually, I just wanted to say that I wholeheartedly agree. I get texts
every so often from people going damn it, they're at my door again.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 23 of 51
So I think it's brilliant and if we're ready, I'd like to move to approve Ordinance
Number 24-12, AKA Rhonda's Ordinance.
ALL: [LAUGHTER]
FRIEDEL: She'll love that.
TOTH: Second.
DICKEY: So we have a motion and a second.
I just wanted to mention that it was kind of -- it was kind of funny to have garage
sales as something that people tried to sell door-to-door, so I'm just glad to see that
come out.
And just for Hannah's sake, this does not preclude political going door-to-door; is
that true? Is it just for selling stuff?
SOLDINGER: Mayor, Council, yes, I believe so. It'd be related to the business license
regulations part of the Town Code.
DICKEY: Okay, great. Thank you.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, I specifically asked those questions in advance of this meeting. It
does not have anything to do with political speech.
DICKEY: I was just saying.
KALIVIANAKIS: So yeah (indiscernible).
DICKEY: Roll call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Ayes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 24 of 51
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
DICKEY: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: The motion passes six to zero.
DICKEY: Thank you very much.
Thank you, Paul.
Our next item is about a grant from MAG for possible Electrical Vehicle Charging
Siting Plan. And we have Justin for that.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. Welcome back.
You'll recall in the past on behalf of town staff, I came before this Council and
asked permission to apply for grants. Part of that conversation involved if and when we
were selected for one that would have a positive impact on this community, we would
return with the details.
We're here tonight to discuss those details. This particular grant from MAG is a
regional grant that is tied to the Regional Electric Vehicle Charging Network. In this
particular case, it's wholly funded with no money coming from the Town in the amount
of up to $100,000 to put together a siting plan. This is a concept plan to show the ideal
location, what infrastructure may or may not be necessary to accomplish the goal, and
provide some concept design work to show us what it would look like and the location
where it would be.
The agreement to work with MAG and the Regional Council on a siting plan is not
in any way, shape, or form a guarantee that this will move forward. This just allows the
regional government an opportunity to see what challenges are faced, if the obstacles
can be overcome, what the pros and cons are for each location, not just this one, and
then decide how to fund it and where to place them for the future.
It should be noted, assigned to the Public Works Director in the General Plan is
direction for working with and establishing electric vehicle charging locations. It's also
in the Strategic Plan. We have met part of that requirement utilizing primarily grants to
install the Vehicle Charging Stations at Fountain Park and the one here at the
Community Center. As part of this, staff has reached out to the industry giants, one
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 25 of 51
particular name brand that everybody is familiar with, and then all the other name
brands that allow vehicles to charge, and asked them to please consider a location on
Shea where we would provide the property if they provided the infrastructure and
installed a giga station.
This is basically a high speed that allows someone to pull into this area adjacent
to Target and near McDonald's, plug their vehicle in. While that's underway an hour or
so, grab a meal, do a little bit of shopping, and then be on their way.
There are three different types of charging levels. The first one is a Level 1,
which is the equivalent of an extension cord from Town Hall to your car. It will take a
couple of days to accomplish a reasonable charge.
The second one is a Level 2. Level 2 is what we are currently utilizing at the
Community Center and also at Fountain Park. Each of those charging stations are on a
40-amp parallel circuit that allows a vehicle in the two hours that they're permitted to
be there to get about a 15 to 20 percent charge. For a full charge at a Level 2, and I
have one in my home for my wife's vehicle, it takes approximately six hours.
So we're looking for the Level 3 or above that. The Level 3 will charge an electric
vehicle up to 45 or 50 percent in an hour or so. The gig will obviously result in 75, 80,
even 90 percent in less than two hours.
This siting plan is going to help determine what would be the best fit for that
location and provide an estimated cost should it be decided to go forward. In the event
that it's decided that this is the ideal location based on all the data and information
gathered, additional funding from the regional government will be necessary to
accomplish that goal.
I would strongly recommend moving forward, that the Town's contribution if it's
so decided by this elected body would be the land necessary and someone else would
be responsible for the infrastructure and the units themselves.
With that, if there are any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.
DICKEY: Councilman Skillicorn, and then I'll ask for cards.
SKILLICORN: If you want to do cards first, that's fine.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 26 of 51
DICKEY: Do we have any?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes, we do. The Town actually received five written comments,
one with the position of against, and four with the position of for. And then we have
one request to speak and that is Barry Wolborsky.
WOLBORSKY: Sorry, Justin.
WELDY: How are you doing, Barry?
WOLBORSKY: I'm Barry Wolborsky. I live here.
Several months ago, the Council voted to allow staff to apply for grants without
coming before the Council for approval. I thought it was a bad idea then and now we
have an example of why that is.
In keeping with the Green New Deal, MAG has awarded the Town a grant of
$100,000 for a study -- we love studies -- to develop a siting plan for an electric vehicle
charging station for multiple vehicles. And it should be known that this station would
primarily not serve town residents at all. The purpose of it is to serve vehicles driving
down Highway 87, SR 87.
I'm totally opposed to accepting this grant. My concerns are:
1) Do we have to donate the land? And I think Justin just said we did.
2) Do we pay the electric bill? And I mean this is a supercharging station, so the
electric bill is grande.
3) Do we pay to maintain the facility?
4) Are we legally responsible for any damage caused by the charger going wild
and frying a $30,000 battery?
5) If the study goes over $100,000, are we responsible for that?
And 6) Once the study is complete, who pays for building the site? And is that a
grant and we pay the overage, or what?
Staff stated that refusing this grant will have a negative impact on the Town's
ability to receive future grant funding from MAG. I've heard that before, but I've never
seen it in writing, I've never heard a MAG official say that, and I'd like to do that.
Otherwise, I would consider it either rumor or misinformation.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 27 of 51
One last thing. When staff gets to do grants by themselves, it's totally opaque to
the public. We never get to see it. We never get to know what's happening until boom,
here it is. And opaque is what this Council has been about.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Director, there is a little bit of this that I was working with our Economic
Development Director on, and actually I kind of thought it was kind of rolling. But
typically, most of the -- at least the superchargers are on private property and we are
hoping to put one in the Target area there, in their parking lot. And you know, one of
the questions is that -- typically they are not going to be people that live in town and
even when I talked to someone from Tessla they mentioned like oh yeah, we'd like to
get someone there. And actually a couple of months ago, I talked to someone about it.
And I thought to myself, well, it has nothing to do with me. I wouldn't use it because I
have, you know, electricity in my house.
But it is for people that are travelling through Fountain Hills and then, you know,
of course they're going to walk into Target and buy something and that's going to help
our bottom line.
So I'm favorable on that note, but I just want to point out that we want to make
sure that we want to work with Economic Development on this because I look at how
the current chargers are totally underutilized. Today when I pulled up at the
Community Center, there's no one using them. The same thing down by Fountain Park.
Now part of that, we changed the terms, that we're not paying for the electricity
for free anymore. And now that the ChargePoint is much more expensive than our
residential electricity, so I don't think that many people with electric cars use those
ChargePoint ones anymore.
But I would note that having them so far away from retail opportunities on our
end was a bad idea.
So typically, most towns put these near retail, near restaurants. Because if
you're going to a restaurant and hey -- the electric car charger is open, I'll park there --
yet they go into the restaurant and spend $60, right? And their sales tax more than
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 28 of 51
makes up for the electricity paid for in that case. And it works out well. Unfortunately,
where we have it now they're underutilized and they really don't help our retail. And
that's one thing we have to have an attitude for is we have to help our retail. So having
them near Target is great.
One question I have, though -- this is very longwinded -- does it have to be on
Town property? So usually, the superchargers are on private property, at least what I
have seen.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember. The Regional Review Panel will certainly take
that into consideration. The Level 3 chargers and/or superchargers are privately funded
and that's the reason they're on private property. I'm not aware of any joint
agreements between any state or local governments being on private property. Those
chargers are usually in the right-of-way or on government-owned land around their
buildings. Any private property owner, regardless of the size of their property down on
Shea, is free to pursue an agreement with one of the giants in the industry. Obviously,
there would be process for that. But we don't have any prohibitions on that, so they are
free to pursue it by all means.
This one, however, it's government money, so it would need to be within the
Town's right-of-way or a permanent easement or access agreement entered into
between the owners and the facility operator.
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, may I ask one follow-up question?
Director, so this is about like a public or a like a federal government or county-
funded, or even potentially a town-funded site, not a private sector site; is that correct?
WELDY: That is correct, Councilmember. The funding primarily would come from the
federal government to the state government. And then depending on the
circumstances surrounding each site location, a local fund match and/or an in-kind
match -- that's where staff and land are exchanged, instead of funding -- is possible.
SKILLICORN: And Madam Mayor, one more follow-up question?
This $100,000 is just for the siting plan; is that correct?
WELDY: That is correct.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 29 of 51
SKILLICORN: Okay. It's a lot of money just to find a lot, but okay. Thank you.
DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Yeah, I've got a couple questions, too. I'm kind of drilling down on what
Councilman Skillicorn said.
I understand that private property, they can explore charging stations and make
a profit, but in this case, I guess what I don't feel like we've gotten an answer to is, is this
going to encumber public property and will the public taxpayers be responsible to be
building electric charging stations, or at least housing them?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Madam Vice Mayor, so the siting plan will include all of those
details. As the Public Works Director, I would strongly recommend that we offer up a
portion of the generous Shea right-of-way for them. All of the finer details will be
decided as part of the siting plan. This is not the only time this staff is going to be
before this elected body to discuss this. There are several more visits as the plan
proceeds forward that we will come back and start dealing with some of those finer
details.
KALIVIANAKIS: And as I investigated this project, I did make inquiry. This can be a
moneymaking proposal for the Town, can it not? We can actually make money on
selling this electricity to electric cars?
WELDY: Madam Vice Mayor, what we can do is charge a user fee. But we're not a
utility, so we can't sell electricity. That's regulated by the Arizona Corporation
Commission.
I'm not in a position to comment on whether or not any return on investment
will be positive because I do not know the overall costs and how long it will take to
recover that. I can give you an example. The charging stations that we have right now
have not yet paid for themselves and we charge a user fee for that.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. And so like Mr. Wolborsky said, the maintenance on these things,
would that be included in the user fee? And then a part of the user fee would go to
maintain these stations? And would the Town be responsible for the maintenance of
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 30 of 51
these stations?
WELDY: Madam Vice Mayor, all of those finer details would be worked out if the site is
selected, but certainly it could be discussed as part of the siting plan.
This is just a preliminary where we've been asked to seek a location utilizing their
funds.
KALIVIANAKIS: And so the questions of liability, who pays, and the other questions that
have been addressed tonight are going to be determined later?
WELDY: In regards to liability, I don't dispense legal advice. We have somebody that'll
do that. But yes, we will do our best to answer all of the questions asked by this Council
not only tonight, but should this move forward as we progress and we come back and
share the updates and/or concepts with the Council.
KALIVIANAKIS: I know this is just a concept, Aaron, but do you have anything to weigh in
on this?
ARNSON: In terms of the liability aspect --
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah.
ARNSON: -- of it, Mayor and Councilmember? I mean, I'll give you the most lawyerly
answer I can possibly give, which is my guess is it depends. And it's really the case.
When these things happen, typically when a plaintiff files a lawsuit, they're going
to file against any party that could potentially be involved if it's a private landowner and
if it's a government-funded or sponsored thing. It's like when a car accident happens on
a road, you know --
KALIVIANAKIS: Um-hum.
ARNSON: -- and there's like -- they're alleging inadequate construction or defective road
condition.
So the possibility of it happening exists, that's true. It doesn't mean that the
Town will actually incur liability, I guess is the best answer to that question.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you, Aaron.
And then I just have one more thought. And I am going to vote yes on this,
because I think it's always good to be prepared and this is just for a plan. And like you
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 31 of 51
said, it'll come before Council incrementally to determine what we're going to do with
the plan.
But the only other problem I have with the plan is if the cost exceeds $100,000,
that the Town shall be responsible for the difference.
And so if -- I would make a motion to adopt Resolution 24-35 and authorize a
capital project with the amendment that any funds in excess of $100,000, no matter
how incremental or how small, would come back before this Council for approval.
DICKEY: Is that a motion?
KALIVIANAKIS: That's a motion.
DICKEY: There's a motion. Is there a second?
KALIVIANAKIS: With amendment.
FRIEDEL: Yeah.
DICKEY: It's a motion to approve accepting it and if it goes above the $100,000, then we
would hear it again.
Could we get a second for that?
GRZYBOWSKI: I'll second that.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Okay, further discussion. Councilman?
FRIEDEL: I think Hannah was before me.
TOTH: Oh.
DICKEY: I'm sorry.
TOTH: Thank you.
I, like anybody else, love free money, but I do not love dedicating staff time and
resources to something that is not a realistic plan for the Town. I don't see an electric
vehicle charging station happening anytime soon. This study -- this would be $100,000
just for the study. The deal of building it, whether that was us, the Town managing it or
getting someone to build it for us, all of those details, I just don't see that being a
priority soon.
I will also add that we have our downtown strategy on the way. We have other
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 32 of 51
projects that staff is trying their best to be able to focus on. We've been encouraged to
try and get things off of the staff's plates, get the projects completed.
And I like free money as much as the next guy, but it doesn't do us any good if
we can't spend it on something that helps us. So I will be voting no on this.
On top of that, I doubt they're listening right now, but if someone from MAG or
someone who speaks to MAG -- I would like to encourage them to consider SRP or one
of our electrical companies taking some of the federal money that they've been given as
a grant to do a study countywide to see if the grid can handle things like that, how much
room we have in the county for more electric vehicle chargers. I think that could be
very helpful from the company side of things. Because as we see in California, if we're
not thinking about our electrical grid and what we can handle and kind of building
before we're ready for it, it turns into a rough situation.
So that's my thoughts on that.
FRIEDEL: Thank you.
Free money isn't always good money. I have concerns about, as Hannah
mentioned, time for our staff. We've got so many projects in the works right now. I
think our staff should be focused on those projects first.
There's no clear path forward with this, so I'm going to be a no vote because we
need additional funding after this to put these units in place and there's no money to do
that without help from somewhere else and there's no guarantee that that help is going
to be on the horizon.
The land donation, that kind of bothers me, too. If the private sector wants to
explore these, there's every opportunity out there as you mentioned, Justin, for them to
go out and do that. And I think we leave it up to them and we stay out of this. That's
just my two cents.
DICKEY: Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: I thought I'd give everybody else a chance to talk, because you guys all
know I have something to say about this particular topic.
I have two questions and then some things to say. The first one I want to ask is
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 33 of 51
can this grant money be used for anything else?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, no.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. The second question I want to ask is, I believe I heard you say that
you approached some of the vendors that install the chargers, the Level 3, the Level 4
chargers, to be the ones financially responsible to put it in.
Is that what I understood you to say?
WELDY: That is correct, Councilmember.
GRZYBOWSKI: So if we found land, whether it be town-owned land or private land,
you're not currently looking for us to come back to us later to invest money to install the
EV chargers that you're talking about right now with this grant?
WELDY: No.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. Thank you.
So the first thing I want to talk about is ChargePoint does not charge significantly
more than you pay at your house. I think Justin said it exactly, that they can't because
they're not a utility company, so you get charged a user fee.
Just yesterday, I filled up my tank from about 18 percent battery to a little over
80 percent battery and it cost me $8.37. That being said, it's the vehicle owner that
pays for this charge. Oh, and you should probably also know, I use ChargePoint every
single time I charge my car and I pay about what I did at home except for the fact at
home I also had solar power, so we charged in the middle of the day when the sun was
paying for it.
The vehicle owner pays for the electricity. That is not a cost to anyone else. The
only reason why it was free for a period of time here in town is because of the legal
aspect of -- we installed this new thing, we cannot charge you for it until it's like 60 days'
notice or whatever.
I'm looking at Aaron for a nod of the head.
There is a legal notice required that we can't start charging you tomorrow, so
this is our proposal. We're going to charge you this and it's effective such-and-such a
date.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 34 of 51
That is the only reason why it was free for a period of time. Am I correct, Aaron?
ARNSON: Yeah. Mayor and Council, because of notice requirements as you stated that
have to be followed before adopting (indiscernible) .
GRZYBOWSKI: So it had to come before Council to agree to the price, and I don't even
remember what that was. But the point is once Council agrees to the price, there is that
number of days that we have to have the public notice. So that's the only reason why it
was free. We weren't doing it for free out of the kindness. We were doing it for free
legally.
Then the next thing I want to talk about is that the government has a history of
subsidizing this kind of new technology. In June of 1956, Eisenhower signed the Federal
Aid Highway Act of 1956 into law. The government would pay for 90 percent of the cost
of construction of interstate highways. Then the previous industrial revolution, we had
the Pacific Railway Act of 1862, authorizing the construction of the railroad and
provided government bonds and land grants to fund the project.
This isn't new stuff. I don't want people to be fearful of new.
Anyway, it's not new. This is something the government has done. They realized
that there are EV users. Electricity is a great way for us to help fossil fuels.
And as for SRP, they are out there promoting purchasing electric vehicles. I have
attended a number of meetings where there have been SRP representation who are
eager to help us have ride and drives and introduce people to the concept of electric
vehicles.
I have been 100 percent electric for I think six years now, including two electric
motorcycles and an electric scooter. So to say that this is new and to be worried about
taking money that yes, that is free, and if we don't use it we can't put it to something
else -- all we're doing is taking this free money and preparing for the opportunity to
have this.
Yes, I will only be plugged in for 45 minutes or maybe only 20 minutes because
Scott and I like to stop a little bit more often, so we'll plug in for 10 to 20 minutes while
we run in and potty and grab snacks.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 35 of 51
The point is, it's a great introduction to town. We need it on the East Valley very
badly because there is nothing going down 87, and we might as well be the people to
take advantage of it.
Thank you. I'm really sorry. I will stop preaching.
DICKEY: No need.
Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
I just have one thing before we take our vote, just to kind of remind my
colleagues of. And Hannah, Councilwoman, mentioned California in her presentation
and I think we all look at California as a trainwreck. But what a lot of people don't take
into account when they take into account California is a lot of the crazy, nutty things
they do are to comply with EPA and other alphabet agencies in Washington, D.C. And so
you're like, you know, why do they do this? Why'd they do that? Why'd they do this?
Well, because the federal government has them tied up in knots.
And what I'm afraid of is like Sharron said, this is new technology. It's going, you
know, with the Teslas and, you know, you name all the car companies that are going
there. And I wonder if in the future either the federal government or the state
government mandated that Fountain Hills come up with an electrical plan, and if we
vote this down tonight, then we'll rue the day that we had $100,000 to anticipate what
could be a future mandate to Fountain Hills and we passed on it. And then we, this
body, will be paying and the taxpayers will be paying for the study that we're rejecting
tonight.
And so I warn people that let's just get the infrastructure, or let's get the plan,
and if down the road we're required to implement it, then we won't have to pay for it.
And so that's why, you know, everybody knows me from having the five internal
combustion engines and being a little green suspicious. But this is just good public
policy to take this money and to be anticipating the future and that's what I think we
should be doing, is anticipating the future.
DICKEY: Thank you.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 36 of 51
Councilwoman Toth?
TOTH: I just want to make something extraordinary clear. I'll even look into the camera
for this one.
If the state or federal government tried to force me to switch to clean energy
before our nation is actually ready for that technology, as proven by multiple other
municipalities who have tried to force others -- or not municipalities, other states who
have tried to force municipalities to switch to clean energy. We are already seeing it.
If the state or federal government tried to force us to do that, I will fight them
every single step of the way.
DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
I do want to add just a -- maybe reassure people a little bit. If ChargePoint or
Tessla or one of the other companies approached Fountain Hills and said hey, we'd be
willing to put a charge station on right-of-way in your town if you guys donated to it,
they could always ask this Council to do so and I would be okay with that.
I don't know if we need to use $100,000 to do a study to do the same exact
thing. And frankly, no money is free money. It's still the people's money. And this is
just going to go to lining some pockets, to some engineering firm, so --
DICKEY: The staff already put time into applying for this because we gave our consent
for them to do that at a public meeting. So some time has been spent already to apply
for this and they were successful. I think at first it was even going to be for $50,000 and
we got $100,000. So there already is some staff time involved and it was successful.
The other thing is we -- I think -- as Sharron was saying, looking to the future, we
don't know. So if they come back and they say yeah, this would be the perfect place for
it, we'll be armed with that information. And at that time, whoever might be on the
Council or whenever that is, then whatever business is around would have the
opportunity to weigh in and know that this is something that the Council is considering
as a project.
This doesn't, obviously, make us or commit us to do anything. But there are
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 37 of 51
things we don't know because it'll be in the future when it comes out. When it comes
out, maybe all of a sudden there are other grants that they are -- and it is something
that is going on countywide to put some stations all over the place. So at that point,
maybe they're just like look, we need three in the East Valley or something. So we don't
know for sure.
I don't see it as a dead end at all. I feel like either the Town would decide that
they do want us to pay money for it or that there would be a grant available.
And then some of the stuff, Brenda, that you said about EPA, is indeed true. And
in fact, the county is on the verge of being downgraded. And what happens when the
air quality becomes like that, it's not to the extent where you were talking about,
Hannah, but it's like then you have to make choices.
You know, so say Chandler's getting a new chip factory. Well, that factory then
all of a sudden can't come in because they cannot get EPA to buy off on it.
So whether we like it or not, this is what's happening. I'm not saying I agree or
disagree, but it's the case right now. And we are on the verge of being downgraded.
And that, you know, when you said anybody that talks to MAG, well, I do hear
these things and actually all of these presentations are online. And if you go to the MAG
website and read them, or I mean listen to them, it's sort of like oh boy, what are we
going to do in order to --
It's something that's happening, whether we like it or not. Not to the extent that
you're talking about, but if this is something that can help along the way and it doesn't
commit us, and it will be good for the businesses that are around it and it would be
good for Fountain Hills, too, people, because we'll have an opportunity to use it if we
have an electric vehicle.
And so I was going to make a joke about how we really need it for all our electric
trash trucks, but I won't do that.
ALL: [LAUGHTER]
DICKEY: Anyway, I think it's a good idea. I don't think -- it's not going to take any more
time than it's already taken because they applied for it after we told them to, so I am
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 38 of 51
definitely in favor of this. If there are any other -- and especially with your amendment.
KALIVIANAKIS: Right.
DICKEY: So any other comments or questions? No?
All right. Well, we have an amended motion and a second, so could we do a roll
call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: No.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: No.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
DICKEY: Aye.
All right.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Three to three.
DICKEY: Three to three. A tie. It doesn't pass, so there we go.
Our next item is about money that we do have to spend due to an error from the
County or the Treasurer's Department. So we'll hear from Paul on that.
SOLDINGER: All right. Mayor, Vice Mayor, Councilmembers, I will now be presenting
some information and requesting authorization to proceed with a repayment to the
Maricopa County Treasurer's Office for the County to administer tax corrections for
parcels within our Town.
So just some background on the lawsuit that you've probably seen in the news
all over the place. The Qasimyar v. Maricopa County lawsuit was brought forth by
taxpayers in 2016 against Maricopa County and was affirmed by a Tax Appeals Court in
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 39 of 51
2021. That challenged the way the County was assessing or not reassessing property
values within Maricopa County.
Specifically, the lawsuit challenged that state law required reassessment of
owner-occupied residential properties once the classification changed to a rental
property or a secondary home. These reassessments, the values could have changed
both ways, but the reassessments would've resulted in different assessed values. And
shortly after the lawsuit was affirmed in 2021, the legislature modified state law to no
longer require the reassessment of properties after the change in classification. So
basically, this is a past years issue.
Just some really brief Town background. The Town, as you may or may not
know, issued over $7,000,000 of general obligation bonds around fiscal year 2015 and
for the next five years or so, the Town levied secondary property taxes and paid off that
debt by fiscal year 2020.
The Maricopa County Assessor's Office and Treasurer's Office, they're the ones
that administer the whole property tax process. The Assessor's Office administers the
assessments of properties and the Treasurer's Office administers the property tax
collection and remittance to the municipalities, such as the Town of Fountain Hills.
I just want to make clear the Town does not administer either the assessment or
collection of these property taxes.
And as you can see on the screen, the Maricopa County Treasurer's Office
recently notified the Town of past overpaid property taxes related to this lawsuit. And
as you see on the screen, from -- those are actually tax years, not this year's tax, years
2015 through 2019. The Maricopa County Treasurer's Office notified us that the Town
was overpaid about $137,000 of secondary property taxes.
With Council authorization tonight, we will repay the liability to the County from
existing fund balance in our Bond Debt Service Fund balance and this payment will come
from our past fiscal year budget, fiscal year 2024. But this will require a budget
authority transfer from the General Fund contingency to be able to make the payment.
With that, I open it up to any questions you might have.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 40 of 51
DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards on this?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: No, we do not.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Councilwoman Toth?
TOTH: I just wanted to throw out there that I think it's a real shame that we're paying
for a mistake by the County. I know that there are at least some other government
boards that are thinking of going back to the County and saying it wasn't our mistake.
But I know that that's also a fight and I don't know if there's heart for it.
If I hear from my fellow Councilmembers that we would like to tell the County
that you need to pay for your own issues, I would fully support that. But I just wanted
to throw that idea out there and hear what everyone else has to say.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Director, and actually -- well, maybe two questions, because I wonder if we
waited and see if there is some other avenue, and have other cities actually proposed
not -- that's interesting, but we could wait and see what the answer to that question is.
You know, that's something we could -- you know, we could bring this up.
But is there a -- if we delay, let's say we delay this two or three months, is there
interest charges?
SOLDINGER: Mayor, Councilmember, yes, the County's assessing eight percent interest,
an annual interest on the balance if we delay.
So three months, that would be about -- and now I'm putting myself on the
spot -- about $3,000 or $4,000 additional interest that would be accruing.
SKILLICORN: Okay. And Madam Mayor, just one more follow-up.
Director, what is the current balance of that -- the GO debt repayment fund and
I'm just curious if -- what's going on, you know, is it a positive balance, a negative -- I
assume it's going to be a positive balance. And what are the plans on eliminating it in
going forward?
SOLDINGER: Mayor, Councilmember, a great question. We have a little over $160,000
in that fund currently and so it would cover the entire liability. We'd have a little bit left
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 41 of 51
over for potential future bond issuances or debt issuances.
SKILLICORN: And I'm so sorry, Madam Mayor.
I'm not interested in paying interest charges and if other towns found an avenue,
I think that we would be able to recoup any costs, the money.
So I actually want to make a motion to approve.
FRIEDEL: I was just going to say that the school district's going to be faced with the
same --
DICKEY: A lot.
FRIEDEL: A lot. Almost $2,000,000. And I think a couple of years ago, didn't the County
bail out Rio Verde Fire Department? They had an issue with a miscalculation, too.
GOODWIN: Same thing.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: They're doing it --
FRIEDEL: Oh, the same thing. Oh.
DICKEY: Yeah.
FRIEDEL: Oh, I think that they're bailing them out, though.
DICKEY: Um-hum.
SOLDINGER: Yeah, that's an excellent question. Mayor, Councilmember, let me try to
address that. That has been in the news with special taxing districts and fire districts.
It's just been verbally communicated to me that the County has done that. It's been in
the news. So in particular, for example, our Eagle Mountain Community Facilities
District that's separate from the Town but still related, that one, I've been told, we've
had that balance removed from our liability. But I haven't received formal notification
yet.
So the issue is that the County only considered special taxing districts such as
Eagle Mountain or fire districts that have no more taxing authority to raise those monies
to repay those amounts. But I have not heard anything about municipalities receiving
that same treatment.
DICKEY: Aaron, first?
ARNSON: Oh, sorry, Councilwoman Kalivianakis. Did you --
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 42 of 51
KALIVIANAKIS: Sure, I'll go first.
ARNSON: (Indiscernible).
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
ARNSON: I would -- thank you.
I was going to say, I don't mind making it a point of discussion at the League
Conference next week. The City Attorneys Association, which is having their annual --
we do a semiannual roundtable -- is asking for subjects of discussion, in fact. So I don't
mind bringing that forward and asking just in general what are you all planning to do
with this?
And if it looks like there's an appetite for something going forward, I can
certainly report back. I haven't independently heard anything at this point. But it would
be an interesting topic of discussion.
DICKEY: Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
I'm thankful, unlike the school board that's going to have to make some really
tough decisions, that through the leadership of our Chief Financial Officer and our Town
Manager, that we're in the ability to pay this and it's not going to hurt very much. I see
this as a very simple decision, personally. And that is we were unjustly enriched for five
years where they accidentally collected too much money and they gave it to us. And so
I think we should give it back because that's the right thing to do.
And if there's any legal or technical loopholes or something like that that might
prevent us -- we owe them the money. We know we owe them the money. Let's just
get it over with, right? And pay them back.
DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: I have just one more chirp on this. I am going to vote in favor of paying for it and
hopefully, Aaron comes up with good news next week.
I have heard from my contacts in other municipalities or school boards that
there's whispers of actually bringing this back to the taxpayer.
So to explain the narrative to everyone, you, the taxpayer, were overcharged.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 43 of 51
The County then distributed that money throughout the county and now that they've
been told that they need to pay it back, they brought it to us and said well, actually, we
gave that money to you. You need to pay it back.
And then we, the municipalities, have the -- well, we are in a -- to
Councilmember Kalivianakis' point, we are in a blessed state that we're able to pay this
money. But for the sake of some of our other municipalities and school boards and
governing boards, we're then put in a difficult position of do we cut out a project? Do
we make cuts to our budget? Do we ask you for your money again, so that you can get
it back in the mail in a couple weeks?
Let's be honest. It's the government. It'll be six months.
I know I'm partially oversimplifying the issue, but I think it's very important that
the people listening and here tonight understand how this is working because -- I mean,
if I were you, I'd take major issue with it.
DICKEY: Councilwoman, were you going to say something?
GRZYBOWSKI: I was just going to ask if we got a second? Didn't we get a motion and no
second?
SKILLICORN: No second.
Second.
DICKEY: Did we get -- we got a motion? Okay.
They are giving it back to the taxpayers, so just to make sure we say that. You
know, that's what's happening. They're not giving it to the County. We're giving it back.
They are giving it back to the taxpayers.
Yeah. Because like for my dad's house, we just got -- my sisters and my brother
and I just got a check. Like 20 bucks each, but it's -- you know, we don't have a lot of
property tax in Fountain Hills. But it's definitely for those years -- when you look at
when it is, it really makes sense. So I just want to make sure, because I wasn't sure if
that was the message that got out.
Hannah?
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 44 of 51
And to clarify that point, yes, the County receives the money, redistributes it
back to the taxpayer.
My concern, however, is for our governing boards that are in a tight position and
trying to find a way to find the money, if they then go back to you.
So maybe my timeline is off. You receive your check from the County for the
money that you overpaid and then you see a bump in what's due to your local
organizations.
What I'm trying to describe is that the way that this has been handled should be
entirely unacceptable to the taxpayers of Maricopa County.
SOLDINGER: Before you vote, Mayor and Council, I just want to bring up one more
consideration or fact. We are in the middle of our fiscal year '24 audit and we're in the
middle of closing our books for fiscal year '24, so if you do decide to push back the
payment, we probably won't be able to use fiscal year '24 funds.
So that's just something to consider in voting on this.
DICKEY: Thank you.
So we have a motion and a second to -- in the amount of the 137,573.
Will we have a roll call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye, regrettably.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
DICKEY: Aye.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 45 of 51
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: The motion passes six to zero.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Our next item is the fun one about the chickens. And we have Farhad, thank
you.
TAVASSOLI: Okay. So Madam Mayor and Councilmembers, so this is a Town Code text
amendment to allow backyard chickens. I want to make clear that this is an amendment
to the Town Code, not the Zoning Ordinance, which is often what I come to talk about
before you.
So a little background. This is in response -- this ordinance or amendment that
we're proposing is in response to a new state statute. It started out as House Bill 2325,
which was signed into law by the Governor on May 21st of this year and it will become
effective tomorrow, 90 days later.
So this is a preemptive law barring cities and towns from prohibiting up to six
chickens. It applies to single family lots of half an acre or less. I will comment on that a
little bit more in a minute.
And municipalities may implement certain parameters and those parameters are
here before you on this slide.
So I just want to make clear that the statute defines fowl as a cock or hen of a
domestic chicken. So fowl often means, you know, it could include pheasant or ducks or
any kind of poultry. But in this case, we're just keeping it within this species.
So again, the State allows municipalities to prohibit male fowl, including
roosters, which might sound a little redundant.
But also, as the second bullet point says here, fowl shall be kept -- and again, this
is the ordinance language before you. The State allows us, municipalities, to regulate
these with this language. Fowls shall be kept in an enclosure located in the rear or side
yard of the property, at least 20 feet from a neighboring property line and restrict the
size of the enclosure to a maximum of 200 square feet with a maximum height of eight
feet. The enclosure shall be -- next bullet.
The enclosure shall be maintained and manure picked up and disposed of or
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 46 of 51
composted at least twice weekly, and composted manure shall be kept in a way that
prevents migration of insects. Water sources with adequate overflow drainage shall be
provided. Feed shall be stored in insect-proof and rodent-proof containers. Fowl shall
be prohibited from running at large and the height of the enclosure shall be shorter than
the fence line of the property.
Most residential properties require a fence height of no more than six feet, so
any chicken coops cannot exceed that height.
So the language in the ordinance before you, the proposed ordinance 24-14, is
almost identical to the state statute in HB2325, or I should say, the language proposed
in the original House bill.
So the existing Town Code, if you looked at the ordinance, it prohibits poultry.
Now, that will remain. That language will remain, but it will be further specified, unless
permitted by this section. And the previous language that I explained will supersede
that.
Building permits may be required for enclosures of 120 square feet. The same
may be required for water and electricity. It was recommended that we add that
language, in case, you know, plumbing code requires permitting or electrical code
requires the same.
And an emergency clause has been included in the ordinance language, in which
case the moment Council decides -- if the Council decides to approve it, it will be
effective immediately.
So with that, I will conclude my -- or actually, let me go on to my
recommendation.
We would recommend approval of Ordinance 24-14 as written.
I did say I was going to comment on the acreage or the lot size that's specified in
the state statute. We fell short of finding an explanation as to why this applies to lots
that are a half-acre or less. We as staff don't see any problem with broadening that to
any single family residential zoning district, granted that those parameters that I
mentioned earlier are met.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 47 of 51
So if the Council chooses, you may amend that ordinance language.
And with that, I'll conclude.
DICKEY: Thank you.
Did we have any speaker cards on this item?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: No. We received only one written comment and their position was
for.
DICKEY: Oh, thank you.
Questions? Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
It seems like there's some reasonable restrictions built into this. I would like to
make a motion to approve with the amendment to include all single family zoning.
TOTH: I'll second that.
But I'd also like to make a comment, if that's all right, Madam Mayor?
I cannot tell you how excited I am about this. When I very first started running
for Town Council, the very first question that I was asked by media, surprisingly not Bob
(phonetic) -- I'm sorry, Bob.
But the very first question I was asked by media was would you support allowing
female chickens in Fountain Hills?
So I'm kind of excited that it comes full circle today. And the reason that this is
important and I'm not just being silly and happy that people can have chickens --
although they are very cute -- eggs have gone up from a national average of $1.40 per
dozen in 2019 to now just recently as of June over $3.00.
The American family across the board is struggling to pay for groceries, to meet
bills. We live in a very different economy than we did not that long ago.
I'm excited that we're a part of this effort to empower the Arizonan to make
their own breakfast every morning that they harvested or collected from the chicken
themselves.
All of that to say I think it's very exciting. I think that the crunchy movement is
getting a lot of steam lately of people looking to their own homes and natural
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 48 of 51
ingredients for their food and I think that's pretty cool.
I am very egg-cited (phonetic). I love that.
ARNSON: I was waiting for that.
GRZYBOWSKI: Ba-dump-bum (phonetic).
Having lived in Key West for a really long time, I'm going to say I would be
annoyed. But there's nothing we can do about it. I get it. I'm not even going to argue
that point.
I've had two concerns brought to me. One of them is that people already have a
tendency to dump stuff into washes and they're afraid that the chicken feces may be
dumped into washes. So that is a concern that we probably should be aware of.
I've also had a couple people contact me that -- there's a concern that this is
going to attract -- we know the predators are out there. But the concern is the
predators may be more prevalent and be more -- what word am I looking for -- brazen.
Again, there's nothing we can do about this. This is something that's going to go
into law and I realize that. It's just something -- a discussion I wanted to make sure that
we're all aware of.
Otherwise, I feel like we've done a really good job and I like doing any single
family home because it didn't make sense to me. A half-acre or less, but if I have to be
fortunate enough to afford more than a half-acre, I can't?
DICKEY: No chickens for you.
GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, no chickens for you, sorry.
So yeah, I approve as written with the amendment.
DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: I'm sorry. I just have one quick question before we move on.
I did receive some questions from the public regarding what the accountability is
in the ordinance for the requirements that we've provided, whether that would be
through inspection or through -- I don't know, neighbors reporting? I don't know. But it
would be --
ARNSON: Yeah (indiscernible).
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 49 of 51
TOTH: And are inspections something that we're able to do, or is it just reports?
ARNSON: Just (indiscernible).
TOTH: Okay. So that was the question I wanted answered, and thank you.
DICKEY: Well, it looks like we're ready for a roll call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
DICKEY: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: It passes, six to zero.
DICKEY: Thank you, Angela.
Our next item is Council discussion, direction to the Town Manager.
I have one thing, just these papers which you got which are the resolutions that
the League came up with that we'll be considering at the conference. I wanted to make
sure that you saw them. They're fully explained in another area, but it wasn't online
yet.
So this is just the one-pager. But the League has come up with seven resolutions
which -- there's five policy committees and then they discuss things they may want to
bring forward into the legislature next year. And then on the first day, the mayors
have -- we have our resolution committee meeting and then at the end of the
conference the whole League looks at them.
I wanted to thank Sharron, Peggy, and Brenda for agreeing to participate in one
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 50 of 51
or more of those five policy committees, so that we know that we had Fountain Hills
represented as these moved forward.
So please just take a look at them and let me know. The League starts next week
and --
Sharron?
GRZYBOWSKI: I loved participating in these particular groups. It's really informative and
the ideas that they come up with and then the discussion we have around each issue,
it's intriguing and I really thoroughly enjoyed it. So thank you for letting me do that for
the past however many years.
I do have one thing that I would like to bring to the Town Manager and to
Director Snipes.
All projects bring questions from residents and the Fountain of Light project and
its delays brought more questions and conjecture than I've seen from any art project. I
think part of the confusion may be because the Public Art Committee meetings are not
public, so everything that people learn about the committee is more like a game of
telephone and we all learned that in kindergarten. It's not a great way to learn
information.
I'd like to have staff look into making this a little more official by adding it to an
existing commission. A commission puts this into a public forum with an opportunity for
public comment and verbatim minutes that are accessible from the Town's website,
allowing for increased accountability and transparency.
I don't want the Public Art Committee to completely go away; rather, I feel like
it's going to more like ADOG or an Encore kind of situation. I think that the timing is
probably also really good because we've reached the point where we're kind of full and
we're not acquiring art anymore. So I kind of see it as a great fit for the History and
Culture, or historical and cultural, or whatever their new name is.
So I'd appreciate it if you guys would do that, and this isn't one of those things
where I'm telling you I want it on next meeting. I want Kevin and Rachael to be able to
discuss this and come up with a good plan.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
AUGUST 20, 2024 COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Page 51 of 51
Thank you.
DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Yeah, I know it doesn't require a vote, but I think that's an excellent idea,
Sharron. I think that's very, very intelligent.
DICKEY: All right. Thank you.
Future agenda items for -- that was kind of it?
GRZYBOWSKI: So that's it.
DICKEY: Yeah. No, it's good. No, that's good.
All right. Great. Well, thank you very much again, and we'll see you next time.
And we are adjourned.
GRZYBOWSKI: Thank you.