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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024.0904.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
September 4, 2024
A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E.
Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:30 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Brenda J. Kalivianakis;
Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember
Allen Skillicorn
Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D.
Arnson; Acting Town Clerk Angela Padgett -Espiritu
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
SEPTEMBER 4, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
T own Council Meeting Minutes
September 4, 2024
Transcription Provided By:
e5cribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
Page 1 of 97
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
SEPTEMBER 4, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome. Please stand for the pledge and
remain standing, if you choose, for the invocation.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Pastor Keith Pavia from Christ's Church?
PAVIA: Mayor ❑ickey, Council. I'm honored to be here to start this meeting off in
prayer. Dear God, I come to you today and thank you for loving us and being the one
we put our trust in. I ask you to watch ❑ver this meeting and help us put away our
differences so we can function for the betterment of this town. We are grateful that we
live here in an amazing place. Keep us focused on you, and know that we embrace
being one nation under God. Again, be with us and this council as we have this meeting,
and make sure we are filled with integrity. And we just pray all this in Jesus' name.
Amen.
ALL: Amen.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Roll call, please.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor ❑ickey?
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Here.
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SEPTEMBER 4, 20Z4 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: And Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Here.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: We have a quorum.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We have our statement?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes. Anyone wishing to address the Council regarding items listed
on the agenda or under Call to the Public should fill out a request to comment card
located in the back of the council chambers and hand it to the Town Clerk prior to
consideration of that agenda item. When your name is called, please approach the
podium, speak into the microphone, and state your name for the public record. Please
limit your comments to three minutes. It is the policy of the Mayor and Council to not
comment on items brought forth under Call to the Public. However, staff can be
directed to report back to the Council at a future day or to schedule items raised for a
future council agenda.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Angela.
Start with our reports, and we'll start with our Town Manager. Rachael?
GOODWIN: Thank you, Mayor, Council.
Everyone, thanks for joining us tonight. I just had two quick items. As many of you
know and, I think, several of our council members, we attended the Arizona League of
Cities and Towns last week. It's a great conference. It's a great chance for communities
to come together to look at the ways our state is growing and changing and work
together, so that -- I really appreciated that.
Closer to home, we had a couple questions about what was going on on the avenue this
morning. As some folks noted, ❑ur holiday lights are actually going up already. Yes, I
know it's only September. We're not rushing things. It's actually very normal. We try to
get those up before ❑verseeding happens so that our overseeding process isn't
interrupted with the trampling, the necessary work that that takes. So we do those
ahead of time, then we'll go into ❑verseeding here in a couple of weeks, so it gives us a
chance to get ahead of the curve so that we're all ready for the holiday season. So to
answer any questions, no, they will not be on any time soon. So thanks.
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SEPTEMBER 4, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTE$
TOTH: I was aisle to attend the League conference as well. I was very excited to see
that Fountain Hills had a booth at the showcase of all the municipalities. We haven't
done that before in the past in some time, and so it was really exciting to watch people
walking up and learning all about Fountain Hills, and these were mayors and
councilmembers and town managers and staff from all over the state, so I really enjoyed
getting to meet a bunch of these people, and it was a really cool opportunity.
GRZYBOWSKI: Not a lot of meetings going ❑n the past couple weeks because ❑f the
League conference, so all of the major players were there, so didn't hold meetings. So
what I'm going to d❑ is I'm going to remind you guys that Make a ❑ifference Day is
coming up next month. It's hard t❑ believe that it's September already. It's on October
19th.
I als❑ wanted to mention that I got to meet Steffnie Beck, who is the gal that created the
free store in the middle school. It is s❑ heartwarming to see everything that she's
gotten and everybody that's donated to the cute little store for the middle school
students. If you haven't had a chance, I'm sure she'd love to brag about it. If you're
doing purging at all, contact her because she'll take pretty much whatever you have.
They're especially looking for clothes, I think, but they are taking a lot of other stuff.
Thank you, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor.
I'm glad that the Town was well -represented at the League meetings. Some of us had
some scheduling conflicts, so not all of us made it down there. And also, with Make a
Difference Day, it's a great opportunity to give back to the community. If you haven't
done that, there's still time to sign up for that. So we get quite a few volunteers that
actually help ❑n a number of different projects around the town, so it's really a
rewarding day for everybody.
And I want to remind everybody that next month, ❑ctober, is Domestic Violence Month,
so the Town will be lighting the fountain on Wednesday nights purple just to raise
awareness to domestic violence and will also be doing the lights around the town hall in
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purple as well. So that's all I have.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. (Indiscernible).
MCMAHON: Good evening, everybody, and thank you very much for attending.
Unfortunately, I was unable to attend the League of Cities conference because I was out
of the country, but I'm glad my colleagues were able to attend. It's a excellent
conference.
Over the summer, it was busy for me. I attended the dem-friendly committee meeting
to plan our next successful dementia -friendly summit. Also, Valley Metro board
meetings. I also attended the Cares (indiscernible) meeting with Mayor Dickey and
Brenda to -- we're having an October educational event. It's Stay Safe at Home and on
the Road While You're Traveling. It's Thursday, October 24th, at 4:30 at the Community
Center, so please mark your calendars and attend. It's going to be a very informative
event.
Also, the 4th of July was a awesome celebration, as usual, for our town. Thousands of
people attended. I participated on behalf of our dementia -friendly town in the town's
July Senior Expo, which was very much a success. I also worked with Amanda, our
financial director, on the Downtown Strategy plan. And one more time, I would like to
thank Justin Weldy, David Janover, and their team for putting in the sidewalk at Eagle
Mountain and completing the crosswalk so that it is safe for golfers to cross Eagle
Mountain Parkway there so they can go to the practice rounds.
And also, I wanted to mention that I'm sad to see Bo Larsen, our marketing person,
leave. I saw him yesterday. It was his last day. And he is going to be greatly missed by
everybody. He was a excellent marketing person. But he is going to a good place in
anotherjob.
S❑ anyway, thank you -- again, thank you for coming this evening.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Yeah, thanks, everybody, for coming tonight and for this being another very -well -
attended meeting. To all of our friends on Cox Channel 11, YouTube, and livestreaming,
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welcome to our Town Council meeting.
To expand on something that Peggy just said on the Fountain Hills Cares meeting, one of
the things I was -- I knew about it last time, but it hadn't been secured yet is we're going
to have a very special keynote speaker, and that's going to be Kathy Marks, who's a
citizen of Fountain Hills. She's spoken at the Fountain Hills Women of the -- Fountain
Hills Republican Women's Club and many other clubs around town. She's a wonderful
person, and she will be our future keynote speaker. She's a safety -- security insurance,
and risk management professional with over forty years of practical experience. Her
presentation will feature on how to spot anomalies in everyday life that are indicators
that something bad might be about to happen to you. So that's really exciting. I hope
everybody can go.
Yeah, I attended the Arizona Cities and Towns conference, too. It was just a really
wonderful experience. We had such a diversity of issues that we discussed. Building
and maintaining effective mayor -- council -mayor relationships, how to activate
commercial vacancies, land use issues, strategies of growth and security, emergency
preparedness, navigating Arizona's regulatory agencies, and much, much more. There
were over 1,200 public officials, everybody from the governor to the mayors of all the
substantial towns, Phoenix, Tempe, Chandler, Mesa, Tucson, all the way down to -- from
Page to Nogales. And of course, our Mayor Dickey was there, and she'll tell you about
her experience.
The thing that is such a wonderful thing about going to this, especially as somebody that
hasn't been a politician my whole life, you're really with the superstars of our state
government. Again, all the way from the government on down. It's kind of like, I think,
a young ball player in the minor leagues gets a chance to go to the Yankees for a week,
hang out in the clubhouse, and have them give you pitching tips and hitting tips, and for
one week, you just get to hang out with the pros. Or maybe if you're like a political
junkie, you get to meet the founding fathers and g❑ in a way -back machine and say, you
know, what did you mean about the Second Amendment? Is it just for hunting rifles, or
could they own a tank? What do you mean by the Tenth Amendment, you know, how
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does it curtail the federal government and state's rights. And so it's just an exciting
opportunity that we have once a year to tap the knowledge of all of our colleagues, how
did you do this, how did you do that. It wasjust a wonderful experience, and so I really
appreciate that.
I also appreciate that Amanda and Bo manned our Fountain Hills booth, and that's the
first time, I think, in ten years. The show -- our showcase of towns was featured by
Fountain Hills, so I was really proud of that, hung around that booth a lot that night.
And also, Coleman Pierce (sic), who's a premium -- platinum sponsor. So thank you,
Aaron, for being one of the sponsors of that event because, without sponsorship like
Aaron's, these events just don't happen.
The last thing that's happened in the couple -- last couple weeks is the lawsuit, Skillicorn
v. Fountain Hills, Ginny Dickey, Brenda Kalivianakis, and the two councilwomen, was
dismissed. I'm pleased that the United States District Court judge, Dominic Lanza,
ordered that the plaintiff's motion for a preliminary injunction was denied. Judge Lanza
issued a 20-page order with his explanation of why this was dismissed. The Fountain
Hills Town Council, as a legislative body, has constitutional rights to censure individual
council members. Such discipline and sanctions do not implicate the First Amendment.
Also, censure by a town council -- the town councilmember is government speech,
which is exempt from First Amendment scrutiny.
The plaintiffs allege that we violated their First Amendment constitution and due
process rights. That was held incorrect. Legislative immunity in this context is enjoyed
by both state and local legislatures. They cited case law to prove -- to provide that, and
we are provided absolute immunity from these type of lawsuits. And so that was really
good news. It was my first federal case being a defendant, and I'm really glad I won.
So anyway, thank you, Ms. Mayor. And that's my report.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Welcome, Fountain Hills, for another good evening. i do want to point out that
September is Childhood Cancer Awareness Month, so the point is to shine a light on this
devastating disease. And then also, something that might affect men in this audience
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and also people who might love men In this audience is that September Is also Prostate
Cancer Awareness Month.
And then a couple, like -- just very brief, there's a couple events coming up. One is of
interest that I think that everyone should attend or just stop by. Saturday morning is
the Peach Market. That's the fourth annual Peach Market that I think that everyone
should stop by Saturday morning.
And that concludes my report for tonight.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks very much.
Yes, we were at the League. It was great. The way -- the first thing I do when I go there
is we have this Resolutions Committee, which is all the mayors, and we -- I had given
everybody up here the copies of what it was going to be to make sure it was okay for me
to support them, and they were -- actually were all supported unanimously by
everybody there, and they had to do local control, budgets, housing, security, and
economic development. I did go to a bunch of sessions, like Brenda mentioned, s❑
those were very informative.
Town Manager got -- and I met with some of our utility partners that were there. They
set up meetings with us, that was great, and Economic Development, also. And Rachael
was also there at the showcase for a little while. You know, we used to do a chocolate
fountain, and that -- maybe that they kind of carried over because we had Chocofin
candy bars, but they were long gone by the time I got there. And I want to thank Bone
Haus and ADERO, and We-Ko-Pa because they provided raffle prizes, correct? That's
great.
I was re-elected to the League Executive Committee, which was one of the last things
that happened, so I'm honored to be able to represent Fountain Hills in that way. And
speaking of -- is somebody saying something? Sorry. I thought I heard somebody saying
something. The representing members of the Mayor's Youth Council, who I think are --
some are in the house tonight, also literally carried our banner for us at the opening
part of the League.
The CEO of the League, Tom Belshe, read words that were written by our outgoing
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Community Relations Director, So, who we did say farewell to yesterday. Bo had
written for us -- and it's always very short, but it's kind of neat -- rich with natural scenic
beauty, safe neighborhoods, a thriving economy, and endless opportunities for civic
engagement, Fountain Hills is the very definition of community. And yes, as Peggy said,
Bo will be missed around here for sure. So that was great.
We do have one proclamation tonight, and it's Ovarian Cancer Awareness Month, and I
would like to ask Rachel -- if you would come up, Rachel Putman, who's a survivor, and
we will be presenting that. Hold this, and then I'll read (indiscernible),
Rachel is a survivor. Whereas ovarian cancer is one of the most common forms of
cancer among women, and it's estimated that 19,880 cases of ovarian cancer will be
diagnosed in the U.S. this year, an estimated 12,810 women will lose their lives;
whereas there's no test or screening exam that can detect ovarian cancer in its early
stages, and ❑nly 20 percent of all cases are found early, if the cancer is caught in stage 3
❑r higher, their survival rate can be as low as 30 percent. I'm glad you're here. Whereas
Arizona has the sixth highest incident in mortality rates of ovarian cancer in the
southwest, with over 70 percent ❑f its cases being diagnosed at late stage; and whereas
doctors across the country are currently conducting clinical trials and researching
ovarian cancer, but for the time being, awareness through education is the best tool for
early detection and an increased chance of survival; whereas the National Ovarian
Cancer Coalition - Arizona is organizing a statewide event in September to light up for
ovarian cancer in an effort to promote awareness about the disease that whispers to
honor survivors and remember lives lost by participating.
So therefore, 1, Ginny Dickey, Mayor, do hereby proclaim September 2022 (sic) as
Ovarian Cancer Awareness Month, and in Fountain Hills, we light up ❑ur famous
fountain in teal on September 16th through the 18th to increase awareness in the
community and honor those who are or have been affected by ovarian cancer.
(Indiscernible).
PUTMAN: So the lighting of the fountain is actually tonight --
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
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SEPTEMBER 4, 2024TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
PUTMAN: -- through Sunday, so we got to catch it. But thank you, Mayor Dickey.
You've been such a great support to me these last several years since I was diagnosed.
And I think the thing that I want to just tell everyone is that we were -- this is my
husband, Brandon, by the way. We were really blindsided by my diagnosis. There is no
early detection test. I think I was living blissfully ignorant every year, getting my
women's wellness exam only to learn, when I was diagnosed in June 2020, that I was
already at stage 3.
1 had no signs or symptoms. I actually found the cancer because the prior month, in
May 2028, 1 was diagnosed with breast cancer. So it took two surgeries and four
months to diagnose my ovarian cancer, which is actually better than most people
because signs and symptoms are very similar to GI issues, and so most people get
overlooked when they go to their primary cares or the emergency room or the urgent
care. So it's really important that we know our bodies, that we recognize our bodies,
that we do understand those signs and symptoms, albeit vague.
And what's really interesting to learn is that 1 have a very rare type of ovarian cancer
that disproportionately impacts younger women. It is persistent. It is recurrent. It has
an 85 percent recurrent rate. So in four years, I have beaten the odds. And
unfortunately, there is no FDA -approved treatment for my cancer, so we sit, and we just
hope, and we just try to bring awareness to cities and towns across Arizona.
I'm originally from New Jersey, so I was there visiting for three weeks and did my rounds
there as well. And I think just bringing awareness to the community is critical, and
understanding that the people in your lives, if you are aware of the signs and symptoms
of ovarian cancer, know about it, it's important to just tell everyone.
So I thank you for this proclamation, for being here tonight, and the Mayor and the City,
you guys are amazing. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). Thank you all very much.
Next, we do have a presentation today. It will be about our Economic Development
fourth quarter update with Amanda.
JACOBS: Hello. Good evening, Madam Mayor, members of Council.
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So tonight, I am presenting the fourth quarter report. That is from April to June. And
then, as always, if there is something new, like hot off the press, I will add it in. Given
the other hot topics on the agenda, I may try to go a bit quicker, but will read all of you
if I'm going a little too fast.
But before I get started, I do want to let the Council know and the community that the
Economic Development department is fully staffed again, a mighty group of two. And
so just wanted to point out our new Economic Development Specialist, Caitlin Perez.
And so Caitlin, if you want to stand up or wave.
So some of our businesses have been getting calls, and one thing -- she's only been here
a month but was collaborating with the Chamber as well as some of our businesses, the
River of Time, Night Sky Tourist, which is Vicky Derksen. And thank you, Councilman
Skillicorn, for plugging in some of our events, but hot off the press is our new event
guide, so stop by the lobby, pick it up, and again, support our businesses and all of the
events that we'll be kicking off later this month with Ballet Under the Stars.
Business Attraction, Our new openings is Elite Repeat and Peak Dermatology,
Aesthetics & Wellness. Both of those businesses are within the downtown. One is in
the business district. One is located in Plaza Fountainside. You can see one is volunteer -
based. The other does have a solid seven full-time employees. And coming soon, will
continue until they're open and we have a ribbon -cutting, is our Coffee Roasters. So
again, they have their permits. They're going at the pace that they would like. There's
nothing that the Town is doing that is prohibiting them. Always a question.
Business Retention and Expansion. Want to talk about relocations, remodels. So
Guardian Training & Consulting is a consulting firm, personal training, and safety. And
so they've actually been within the town for, like, six to seven years but have decided to
have a bricks and mortar and open a business on the avenue, so excited about that.
And then the Comfort Inn met with the Mayor and Manager Goodwin and I a few
months ago to give us exciting news that they were rebranding to a Spark by Hilton, and
so they've been making some significant remodeling and investments, and it's going to
be exciting to have a Hilton brand.
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We had our shop local summer campaign from May 1st to July 31st. Come October -
November, we'll have some more results, but partnered again with the Fountain Hills
Chamber, instead of doing printed ads, we did sticky notes. And again, the whole
purpose is to raise awareness that Fountain Hills does not have a local property tax, and
so we rely heavily on sales tax, and to keep our current businesses who've made an
investment in our town, we need to shop local, folks.
And then we, of course, partnered with Clason Communications, which is a home -based
business, Debbie Clason, on a social media campaign, s❑ again, we'll be evaluating the
effectiveness year over year to see if we'll continue to do that or if we can invest in a
different way. And then, we just talked about the fall event guide.
Apartment Occupancy Rate. So again, for two and a half years, we've showed we're
over 90 percent, but in full transparency, this is the first time Luna at Fountain Hills has
gone below 90 percent. And so kind of the summer weighed in on that in talking to
reps. And then, of course, if anybody is new watching or in the audience, Four Peaks
Vista condos usually remains at the 80 percent because it's not fully rent, so it's a
combination of ownership and renting.
Apartment Pipeline. Again, Council liked the slide. We introduced it back in January
when we were talking about the Four Peaks Plaza and then just requested that I
continue to show this. Part of it is to demonstrate, yes, on the books, there's 324 units,
but to show that none of this is happening overnight. So you can see several waiting
and a couple of no applications have been submitted. So sometimes, again, if that clock
runs out, it's up to the developer to either come back, come to Council, get approval or
if they just decide, you know what, we're going to abandon this.
Vacancy Rate - Existing Buildings. Again, for anybody who's new or needs a refresher
because they had fun over the summer -- some of you went out of the country. How
fun. But if you look at the vacancy rate, fourth quarter, Costar. So that is a national firm
where people will notify and market the vacancies that are in town. I have shared with
Council and community members. Not everyone does that. Some folks just put out a
sign in front of their property, and your Economic Development staff has no idea, so we
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literally have to manually go ❑ut. So two and a ha If years later, we're still trying to work
on that.
So the side that says fourth quarter staff is more realistic. Do want to give a heads -up.
Again, not a mind reader, but the last couple weeks, Caitlin and I have been out in the
field, and I'm noticing some more signs pop up, so you may see an increase next year on
those numbers. Again, for full transparency.
Grant Funding. AOT for this year, so fiscal year'25, so July 1 to June 30th of next year,
we have received a slight bump for tourism marketing, over 76,000 hot off the press last
week. So last year, Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation did not provide any grant funding to
Fountain Hills, and so this year, we were informed it's going to be a little over 16,000.
16,000 is bigger than a zero, so we'll take it. And s❑ as staff, i have let them know I will
be taking it and bringing it to Council. And so this is something -- there's no cost
sharing. It's in the form of an IGA, intergovernmental agreement, and so as soon as I get
that, we look at it internally. It will come to Council for official approval.
S❑ same with Salt River Pima _ Maricopa Indian Community. Last year, we received
50,000 for our Music Fest. Very grateful for that. And then this weekend, was informed
we are receiving another 50,000, so super exciting. Again, no cost share. It's, again, to
just advance our events and tourism marketing.
Partnerships. Again, just interest of time, have mentioned some of these partners, and
again, Economic Development is a team sport, so we need all these partners to help us,
again, advance Economic Development, and so appreciate everyone listed. Our Music
Fest, again by our award -winning Community Services department, was held in April.
We had 7,500 attendees. It was a slight decrease because ❑f rain.
We had another big mega event. NSA something -something was happening at that
time with Phoenix, and then for some reason, Glendale decided to have the Jonas
Brothers, so a little hard t❑ compete, so -- but still, 7,500 Is not so shabby. And so with
our Evolve PR, our marketing firm that, again, is paid through tourism grant funding, got
some media coverage, 12 News, Fox 10. It's always wonderful to get Fountain Hills'
name out there. We're almost there, folks.
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So Tourism. We continue to remain In the 50 percentile as far as occupancy. Again,
with some of this new branding, we're hoping to start beefing up that. And again,
Caitlin comes from Visit Mesa, and so happy to have her roll up her sleeves and bring
some new perspective.
❑ur social media continues to increase, so it was by 13.8. Our fountain live feed is our
EarthCam, was 153 views -- 153,000. Excuse me. And then Experience Fountain Hills'
website, do not be alarmed. Every summer, this happens, but there is a big decrease of
30 percent, and that's because the main things people are coming for are the events. In
the summer, it's a bit toasty to be outside and have some of these events.
And then just to continue, again going down into Experience Fountain Hills' website
viewership, so on the left column, the top five Arizona cities and towns are listed there.
Won't go through all of them. And then the top five national are listed. Again, what's
nice is t❑ look at this data to see if some of the tourism is matching and in alignment
with who we're trying to attract for business attraction, and then through, of course,
our regional Economic Development organization, the Greater Phoenix Economic
Council, GPEC, that acronym.
I feel like that was pretty fast for me. Any questions?
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any questions?
I just have one. The AOT. Do you have to tell them -- do you do, like, a specific request
on -- and tell them what you're going to do with it, or is it basically you can use as
needed?
JACOBS: So Madam Mayor, first we have to say that we're wanting to apply, and so
they'll look at all the municipalities that qualify and are a listed Designated (sic)
Marketing Organization, a DMO, and then we do -- yes, it's very strict. We have to list
what we're doing. We have to provide quotes and documentation. There is a thorough
review from the State, and then they will approve or deny,
MAYOR DICKEY: That's great because that was a good amount of money, so thank you.
JACOBS: Yes. You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other -- any questions ❑r comments?
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SEPTEMBER 4, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Thank you. And we will see you later. You're off.
1ACOBS: So easy. Thank you. I know. See you in a couple.
MAYOR DICKEY: Next, we have our Call to the Public. Do we have cards?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes, we do, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: We have -- the Town received a total of seven. One was a written
comment regarding stored materials, and the other six are requests to speak. And we
will start out with Kim Wolborsky followed by Barry Wolborsky.
KIM WOLBORSKY: I'm even worse at this when I'm first. I'm Kim Wolborsky, and I'm a
resident of Fountain Hills. And so we moved here at the very end of 2019, so I'm still
learning about our town. I learned today that when Vice Mayor Kathleen Nicola passed
away from a boating accident -- and excuse me if I've mangled her name -- in 2005, the
conservative mayor, Wally Nichols, ignored politics and appointed Councilmember Elect
Ginny Dickey to fill her remaining time. Just like Gayle Earle, Ginny Dickey had received
enough votes in the primary to be elected without running in the general election. I
hope that Mayor Dickey will honor this precedent and choose Councilmember Elect
Gayle Earle to fill Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski's seat.
And I'm a little out of turn here, but I wanted to thank Councilmember Grzybowski for
your service and wish you well in your new spot. We can all see how many hours you
put into this $400-a-month job, and your neW'town will be lucky to have a new resident
who's able and willing to contribute so much time to the community. I hope you can
visit us and support the Fountain Hills Gun Show, I'm a little concerned that it might
fold without your support. Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: (Indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm just going to ask Aaron to please -- just about the appointment
thing, would he please read the state statute just so we know what we can and can't do
going forward?
ARNSON: The state statute for appointments?
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible) verbatim.
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ARNSON: Yeah. Yeah, I'm looking for it right now. If you'll give me just one second,
Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Barry, why don't you just go ahead, and then we'll --
BARRY WOLBORSKY: I'll wait for him because it's on the same thing.
MAYOR DICKEY: ❑h, okay.
BARRY WOLBORSKY: Could preempt me.
ARNSON: I found it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
ARNSON: All right. Mayor and Council, just for -- in case there are other speakers that
intend to speak about the same subject, AIRS 9-235 makes it clear that it's the Council
that fills the vacancy. It's not a mayor appointment. The Council always has to vote on
filling a vacancy in Council. There may be some confusion considering that the mayor
does, with the recommendation of subcommittees of the Council, make appointments
to commissions and boards. That is not the case by state statute for Council. So it says
that the Council shall fill a vacancy that may occur by appointment within a reasonable
time.
BARRY WOLBORSKY: Then my -- I'm Barry Wolborsky, and I'm a resident of Fountain
Hills, and that makes my talk a lot shorter. Even though Councilman Grzybowski and I
have disagreed a lot on many issues, I will -- I'll miss her on the Council. She brought a
spark and a liveliness to the proceedings, which I appreciated. I especially liked her
trying to persuade the Stellar Students to stay for the meetings. Luck on your future
plans for you and your family.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: All right. Next up, we have Crystal Cavanaugh followed by Cindy
Couture.
CAVANAUGH: Good evening. Crystal Cavanaugh, resident. Regarding the inappropriate
turn the August canvass the vote meeting and farewell to Town Clerk Mendenhall took
when Councilwoman McMahon abruptly threw Friedel, Toth, and Skillicorn under the
proverbial bus by calling them out by name with regards to their previous resolution
vote and then moved on to inaccurately call the reclaim our town lawsuit frivolous and
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the reason the town clerk quit and moved to Texas, my only comments are, one, to
remind the public that four of you on this council actually put sanctions on Skillicorn
after he called out Kaiivianakis with a legitimate question that later proved true from
her personal email.
Number two, the lawsuit judge did not deem the reclaim our town lawsuit frivolous but
found there was cause, which is why it then moved along further in the system. And
three, there's the obvious consideration that the town clerk may have simply taken a
better -paying job elsewhere. And believe it or not, I had a friendly relationship with her
until the very end despite that mistake.
But more importantly, I do want to point out I agree that the only logical replacement
for the outgoing councilwoman would be the one and only candidate who was actually
elected outright by the people in the recent election. Councilwoman Elect Gayle Earle
should be sworn in to finish Councilwoman Grzybowski's term that ends in December.
Hopefully, when the time comes, this council will respect the people's choice and
unanimously decide that Gayle Earle should finish that term and then begin her own.
Thank you.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Okay. We have two more. First, it will be Susan Dempster
followed by Gene Slechta.
COUTURE: (Indiscernible).
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Oh, I'm sorry. Just trying to speed it along.
COUTURE: I'm goad. Whatever. Okay. Hi. I'm Cindy Couture, and I'll make this quick. I
attend council meetings, all of them, or watch them on TV. You guys are famous. And I
just want to thank Sharron Grzybowski for an incredible time, Sharron, you always cut
through the crap, your common sense. You stand up for business and for people, and
we're sure going to miss you here in town. I'm sorry you're going.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Okay. We'll start over. okay. Next up, we have Susan Dempster,
and, again, as I mentioned earlier, followed by Gene Slechta.
DEMPSTER: Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Council, staff. Susan Dempster, a 18-
year resident of Fountain Hills. I'm speaking once again about the application from the
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Town seeking a permit to pump water at the Panorama ❑rive. Several of the
Morningside residents received a letter very quickly, which we appreciate, after the
executive session and my request for more information at the Cali to Public at the
August 20th meeting. We feel, though, there were some statements in the letter that
we didn't agree with and some new information that we're still learning at this juncture.
So it would make sense to us to have a meeting to discuss the facts about this and to sit
down instead of having this back and forth and learning new information, and it's very
frustrating.
So we also want to state that the Arizona Department ❑f Water, and I quote, "urges
both parties to make a sincere effort at resolving the protest. It is requested that both
parties attempt to negotiate resolution of the issues," end quote. So I think that we
should follow that.
We also want to point out that water trucks are filling up at the pump -back station and
delivering water to construction sites. Yesterday morning and this morning, a truck
filled up with water at the pump site and brought it to the sidewalk construction project
on Saguaro just past Grande Avenue. So not knowing the makeup of this water, if it is
contaminated or if it's reclaimed water, should it be being brought to construction sites
and the sidewalk project? I mean, we need to know the source of this water. I think it's
very simple.
We also would like to confirm that the pump -back system is not the same as what was
installed in the'80s. We believe that the previous system was exclusive to capture the
basin seepage, and once it reached a predetermined level in the basin, then it was
pumped back into the lake. We believe that this new design appears to capture water
from a deeper location; hence, potentially being groundwater or spring water. We were
informed today that the letter is being revised and resent via email, so we appreciate,
again, any new information, but we respectfully request a meeting. And we want the
sanitary district there because this involves them and, you know, the water that is
produced from there, staff, whoever's appropriate. It would be great to have a
representative from the Arizona Department of Water.
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But please, let's sit down and come t❑ a resolution and talk about all the facts, get all
the facts on the table. There is just too much -- we can't do this with a letter here and
then a revised letter. And I thank you for your time. And I will miss you, Sharron, but I
wish you all the best. Thank you.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Eugene Slechta.
SLECHTA: Thank you, Mayor, Council. My name is Gene Slechta, 29-year resident. And
I'm saddened, as probably many of us are, that we're losing you, Sharron. Everybody
knows what a wonderful job you've done up here on the dais. You can hear that several
people had already spoken. I was sad to hear that you're leaving this quickly and that
you're leaving the state, but I certainly wish you the best of luck. And a question for
you. Can you change your mind? The other item --
GRZYBOWSKI: (Indiscernible).
SLECHTA: ❑kay. Okay. The other thing is I was shocked when I found ❑ut that the grant
for the electric vehicle high-speed charging was not approved. It's shameful for those
council members that voted against it. Everybody needs to know, both on -- that's
watching on TV or in the audience here. There was a $100,000 grant. Not a penny
coming out of the Town's coffers.
And there was a study that allowed us to look at the viability of high-speed electric
vehicle chargers, and that can be useful not only for travelers passing through town but
for residents if you live in an apartment building or for employees that live in Mesa or
other communities, yet this council turned it down because of three councilmembers
that chose not to vote the best interest of this town. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilmember Friedel is just going to ask what he -- you know, like, a
follow-up --
FRIEDEL: Following up on Susan ❑empster's request for some kind of a meeting. Can
we look into that? I think there's so much misinformation floating about. If we could do
that, that would be -- I think that would be productive for everybody. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. We all done?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes, we are.
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MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Thank you very much. ❑ur next item is our Consent Agenda.
I think there's only one thing on there, so could I get a motion?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Move to approve.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Motion passed.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Our first regular agenda item is an appointment of a youth
commissioner to the Community Services Advisory Commission. S❑ we are -- one of our
subcommittees met, and they have recommended for us to appoint Shreyaan Nath as
youth commissioner for the Community Services Advisory Commission. Can I get a
motion, please?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: S❑ move to approve.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Could we get a roll call?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
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FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKi: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Council member Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor ❑ickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Motion passed.
MAYOR DICKEY: Are you here? Thank you. Thank you for wanting to serve. Thanks a
lot. And thank you to the Committee for your recommendation. Appreciate it.
❑ur next item is the -- adopting the resolution to approve our Downtown Strategy. So
Amanda, you are up.
JACOBS: I'm back. And I can't promise I'll be as fast as the last time, but I will certainly
try. Well, first, on behalf of staff, we are extremely excited to be presenting the
Downtown Strategy. I would try to list all names, but I always forget. But there is
someone I want to point out, but want to thank our Community Relations department --
yes, Bo has left us. We put him through the ringer because of this. No, I'm kidding --
our Community Services department, our Finance department, especially our
Development Services department.
And I also want to point out we had an ASU intern who is a Fountain Hills resident who
lives in our downtown, Bradley, helping us navigate this. S❑ Bradley, a little wave. So,
thanks to Bradley. I'm like, Bradley, we didn't -- we didn't scare you off? And he's like,
no, He's like, I'm so excited to see what Council does. Oh, the pressure is ❑n.
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So to give a little background, the ❑owntown Strategy has not been updated since 2009.
Last year, Council unanimously approved the Economic Development Strategy. Thank
you. One ❑f the implementation strategies was t❑ update the Downtown Strategy.
November of last year, you had your first Council Retreat and workshop, and we asked
Council for your support and, of course, to save a little money for it to be a staff -driven
process, and we received your support. So again, we appreciate that. And i do want
you t❑ know my colleagues thought I was a little crazy because I told Council we're going
t❑ start in January and that we would be presenting to Council in September, and then
they're like, okay, we did it. S❑ again, extremely excited.
Want to show -- someone had asked will we be comparing all of the downtown plan
from 2009 to what we're presenting. No. We're just going to show this reap. So if you
look at some of the dashed edges of the boundary where it expands to Bashas', to Pillar,
up to Westby, we did remove that in the next slide that I'm about to show. And then we
also removed most of Fountain Park and just included the frontage, and part of that is
back in 2009, there was a vision that there would be some commercial and mixed use
on the park, and since then, as you know, whether we like it or not, it's become event
central. And then, just with staff expertise, just feel like we needed to take that off.
And again, when you shrink the footprint, it shrinks the dollar amount. So again, here is,
then, that new downtown plan.
And then also, you'll see with the avenue district, in the previous plan, it went all the
way up to Palisades. We did shrink that avenue footprint. We have some vacancies
there as far as vacant raw land. The Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce is there. So
wanting to grow a little bit of the business district.
Our public ❑utreach. We had six focus group meetings with residents and businesses,
and a lot of that really was focused on the folks who are doing the daily grind and living
within the downtown, and so again, as residents and business owners, we conducted
four electronic surveys. And again, Bradley was a tremendous help going through all
that data and comments. And then, of course, we had a very successful -- a majority of
you attended our May public ❑pen house and received a lot of feedback.
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And so from that, we've come up with four focus areas. It's land use, infrastructure,
economic vitality, public spaces, and placemaking. And as I start to get into this, just
want to sort of set the tone for Council, the public, again, who is here and in the
audience. We want to keep our conversations very high level. Think of this like a
strategic plan. We're not going to come to you with a five -to -ten-year plan and have all
of it implemented. About 80 to 90 percent of this will be coming back to Council, either
in the way of updated policy -- some ❑f it will be going through the Planning and Zoning
Commission -- or it could be coming to you through a budget request.
So we just invite Council and the public who may be speaking to just view some of that
through that lens. And so again, we'll try t❑ provide some high-level detail on each of
the bullet points, but again, we're wanting to keep it very high level. And I'll also be
trying to do my best to identify if it is purely public policy or if, again, later on, come
December -- we'll get to that towards the end -- we'll have some type of budgetary
impact.
S❑ with that land use, I'm going to combine allowed sidewalk cafes and active front
patio usage. So if you view the image before you, what we're wanting to do as staff,
again, just hearing from our residents and business community, is we're wanting to
expand our sidewalks from about five feet to ten feet. And so you guys know I don't like
to call out people, but to give a visualization, if we think of down the street, Papaya'z. If
you didn't know or haven't been there, I advise you to do so. But they have a couple ❑f
tables and chairs that each day and night that they're open, they have to bring inside
their business.
And there's not really that capability to add some of these cafes or the experiential
experience, and so we're wanting t❑ expand that to allow that, and part of that is
business retention and business attraction to try to get more restaurants, that they're
going to have that space and not impede into the right-of-way and, of course, ADA
access. We're wanting to activate some of the first -floor use. We'II get to that, too,
under economic vitality.
But what we heard, again, from the public is, you know what? There's a lot of office
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more, like, space on the avenue, and we feel like that is the downtown heartbeat, even
though, again, we want t❑ consider Verde River and Parkview, and s❑ wanting to see
more restaurants, retail. Again, selfishly, not having a property tax, that does bring in
sales tax. They want to see some live entertainment, and so got a lot of ideas about
that.
We're also wanting to improve maintenance of vacant properties and perhaps be a little
bit stricter. So again, i won't apologize for being honest, but if I'm too honest, again,
when 1 first started, just driving through the downtown and going through Parkview,
again, as an economic developer, I have to think from the lens of if I am bringing a
developer, if there's someone knocking on my door wanting to come here, seeing some
of the weeds and it not being kept very well, our marketing, our branding, our
demographics, it does not appear that we're an affluent community. 5o again, I don't --
I'm not going to apologize for being honest, but again, if it's too honest, i apologize. But
some of that really needs to be cleaned up. And actually, some of the businesses on
Parkview said, you know, what can the town do to clean up, to make sure we're driving
people to our businesses.
We're wanting to amend the ordinance to allow up to 12 dwelling units by right on the
upper floors. Right now, in our code, it allows eight. If it goes more, it triggers a
different path. And so it's a special use requirement that will go through Planning and
Zoning and then also goes through Council, and so wanting to consider upping that a
little bit. So again, it's saving some time. Time is money.
We want to develop some design guidelines. Again, hearing from community members,
some of the words that they used is in the downtown, we're not sure where we are,
like, in the downtown. Some of the buildings are a bit hodgepodge. S❑ can we do
something in the middle, not be too restrictive, but not be too, perhaps, Ioosey-goosey.
All of those are policy and is staff time.
This next one, to establish a fagade improvement program, that will cost some money to
do a little bit of a facelift, but again, we would come back to the Council with policy.
And so to Council, as we're going through this -- I think, Mayor, you are going to wait to
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take any questions, perhaps, until after public comment, but just start making
comments if there is something you want us to remove and you don't want us to ever
bring back. Think of that. We will remove it. If there is something you feel like we
missed, please also think of that.
Next, infrastructure. We're wanting to implement some streetscape improvements.
And so some have asked, well, what exactly does that mean? So again, if you look at
this image, that is adding lighting, trees, more street furniture thanks to this council and
our previous manager, TAMA, The Avenue Merchant Association. When I first started,
like Amanda, we need more trash cans, there's not trash cans on our side, and so we
actually walked it. They're like, we need more benches. So again, looking to see what
else we need to do.
Creating small, unique gathering places, again, to just -- if people are going into a
restaurant, you know, staying a little while. Improving the pedestrian connectivity
between downtown and Fountain Park. And so we don't have a final solution for that,
but again, it's been asked by residents. And also, from a staff perspective, we are asking
this current council and future councils to try to add more mixed use, to add more
events, to add major employers within our business district. We're increasing the
population, and so we need to start being forward -thinking.
S❑ within two, three, maybe five years, you know, are we seeing that population
increase, and can people, pedestrians -- again, not necessarily the movement of traffic --
are they getting safely to our world famous fountain. We are wanting to evaluate the
options for improved event parking as advised by the downtown parking analysis. 5o
staff has already been working on that, and hopefully, within a couple of months, we'll
be giving an update to Council.
And then we want to continue to partner with Plat 208. So Director Wesley and I, for
over a year, quarterly have been meeting with two folks serving as liaisons to Plat 208 to
just make sure -- again, they have a big footprint within our downtown, that we're
working together. And so we've talked about redeveloping some of the pocket parks. If
folks aren't really familiar, it is -- along our avenue, next to the Thai restaurant and
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Sofritas, there is a little bit of landscape, maybe a bench here and there, and so what
can we do to improve and, again, activate that for residents and the businesses.
And then restrooms. So again, full transparency. I'm probably the last person that
would want to include restrooms since we talked about it for over a year, but we only
had one person, which I found shocking because I didn't want to lead any witnesses, but
during the workshop say, Amanda, there's no public restrooms. I'm like, you are the
first one to mention it. And so I do want Council to consider keeping this in because out
of sight, out of mind. So if it's in the plan, we continue to look at it, that if there is an
opportunity for a Public -Private Partnership, that we take advantage of that. So full
transparency, but yeah, I'm so over talking about restrooms.
All right. Economic vitality, flexible zoning uses within the business district. So the
council that have been with me from the beginning and then our current council, you
have heard from me that the zoning is a little bit too restrictive within our business
district, and so there have been opportunities that we have had to pass up through
business leads through the Greater Phoenix Economic Council for, again, some clean
industry, bioscience.
It's myjob and, of course, Director Wesley to ask questions on intensity, so is there
more office? Is there a clean room? And so if they're like, Amanda, it's about 50, 75
percent clean room, there's no industrial within the business district -- and sometimes
people get scared, like, there's big moving trucks. No. We're a lighter, clean industry --
we need to update our business district, respectfully. And I've been wanting to do that
since we started, and if you guys approve this, we'll be rocking and rolling as soon as you
approve it.
Back to land use. And again, economic vitality is we're wanting again -- specifically
within the avenue district, look at the business district because Parkview falls under
that, but looking, again, at an overlay district, an entertainment district. So everybody
that is here today are, of course, grandfathered in, but if someone does leave, that we
are working with the property owner and the broker to ensure we're getting retail,
restaurant, or something under the entertainment category.
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And then what We're wanting Council to consider is allowing temporary uses on vacant
properties, and so if you look, again, at that image is -- so if there's some vacant
property that's commercial or it is residential and people have been sitting on for years.
Since I've been here, there's quite a bit of property on the avenue off of Verde River that
can we, again, loosen up, allow some temporary uses.
S❑ again, there's some pop-up. It could be live entertainment. It could be food trucks.
Again, rolling up our sleeves, talking with the business owners. And so some of it is --
again, instead of it just being vacant property, it's activating it. It perhaps gives the
developer an opportunity to think outside the box if they were so stuck in thinking, oh,
no, such and such restaurant won't come, that then it's giving them the opportunity to
try it out.
Programming within the Avenue Linear Park. Again, we heard that -- from residents,
and specifically the folks at Park Place, is they're like, I made sure that I got a view of the
avenue, a balcony, and they're like, nine out of ten times, Amanda, there's nothing
happening, and so can we activate that area. And so they've talked about, you know,
painting the fountain, yoga in the park. And so again, potentially looking at that, and
depending on what happens, that is something -- there's a flaw or something that could
have either a staff or programming impact.
We heard from Parkview that they would like to see us to expand our event footprint.
Some of that right now you guys all like to tell me about the chicken and the egg, and
in Economic Development, sometimes we don't know what comes first. But part of it
is -- why we can't is because some of the infrastructure is not in place, so sidewalks,
lighting. We need to make sure if, again, we're going to activate and expand areas that
we're making it safe.
We want to continue to partner with The Avenue Merchant Association. Come January,
it will be official, two years, but as most of you know, Jim with Classy -Jazzy, I think, gave
me a month, my feet weren't completely wet, and he's like, Amanda, I need to talk t❑
you, and he had a list. Not just the front page but the back of the page. I can hear him
giggling. And he's like, I want -- I want to do this. I'm like, okay. Could you give me a
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couple weeks, and we'll help make this work. And, of course, called Betsy with the
Chamber, and I'm like, come on, let's activate this. And so I attended a meeting
yesterday, and there's lots of new faces, and so very exciting.
And then also want to continue the downtown promotion and marketing. So again, this
council, last year, authorized 5,000. 1 asked to bump it up 5,000 more to 10,000. And so
not just this year to focus on the avenue but the entire downtown, to have some
branding, again, promoting the activities that are going on, not just to Fountain Hills
residents but to look regionally to Scottsdale to say, hey, if you like arts and culture,
come to Fountain Hills. We are not that far away.
All right. I think we have two more slides. We're almost there. Public spaces and
placemaking. So again, arts has been a big conversation. Again, this council last year
authorized, in the downtown fund, 25,000 of an ongoing expense for utility boxes. It
has been extremely popular. We went out, too, with David ]anover, Caitlin, and 1, to
look at the next six boxes, spoke with one of the property owners and one of our top
employers off of Palisades, and he was ecstatic, and he's like, anything else I can do to
help.
Then last year, we had three existing businesses say, hey, if I give you one of my walls,
can you put a mural, and I'm like, we will consider it. And some of them are like, we're
going to cost share, but I'm like, we need to figure out a policy for that. And then a
couple months ago, not to put Councilmember Friedel on the spot, but we visited one of
❑ur newer businesses, Mindful Barbell, and he was so excited -- he's only been here a
couple of years, relocated from LA -- that he contacted one of the artists we used and
has a beautiful mural inside his walls and is considering doing another one. So again,
arts is part of economic development.
And we're wanting to look at modifying our public art policy, the percentage program.
And so we talked about this last year. This is also an overlap with the Economic
❑evelopment Strategy. Traditionally, with new building is folks have the idea of let's do
a sculpture. We may have enough sculptures in Fountain Hills, so can we think outside
the box. And again, is it a mural? Is it performing arts? 5o again, we're known as an
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arts community. Let's elevate it a little bit.
Signage. So again, thank you, Council. So folks have been wanting wayfinding signage. I
was beating the horse, too, of we need to do this, and so Council gave a limit. Went
from 750,000 to 500,000 over two fiscal years. And so again, it looks like we're going to
be able to do that because our staff is amazing. You gave us the direction, and we try to
negotiate.
We're wanting to look at, again, from our businesses, entryway, and monument signs,
so entering into the various districts, either from Saguaro, from Avenue of the
Fountains, Parkview. That will have a budget in future latter years, of course, but
looking at an overall sign package.
It's also been a couple of years since we updated the avenue banner. So right now, that
is the only district that actually has poles for banners, and so wanting to refresh that
and work with our businesses and then, of course, our staff, several departments, work
together to install the banners ❑f just that frequency and, again, come back to Council
to see if we need to increase budget opportunity for that.
We've also received inquiries to have more pedestrian -oriented signage. So again, you
know, this way is shopping, this way is retail. And so we'll investigate that. And then
expanding temporary signage during events. We have some of that in place. Some of it
is just going to be education. And when I first started, I was able to attend the big
Festival of Fine Arts & Crafts, and then -- you'd be surprised. If there's visitors coming in
just once or twice a year, they were pointing this way. Is this way the fountain? No,
that way. Or okay, I know Phil's is somewhere around here. Tell me where Phil's is.
And so we're acting and navigating, and so working with ❑ur event organizers to see if
we can add additional signage.
So Mayor and Council, staff does recommend approval. Again, what was nice in having
the public feedback and why we were able t❑ get here from January to September was
we were pretty much in alignment. There was n❑ surprises during conversations. And
again, if it's not approved, we remain status quo. And so really wanting to improve the
economic vitality of the town.
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So next steps. Again, if you guys do approve this tonight, we will start working on policy
changes and then hope to bring that to you come January of 2025. I'm like, what year
are we in? And that's going t❑ include -- we feel like the main priority is the
entertainment district and the business district. We just -- we have to. Then if, again,
you guys approve it, from now up until December is we will be rolling up our sleeves and
showing you is this a five-year, is it a seven-year, is it a ten-year budget process.
So again, I have told Vice Mayor Kalivianakis, I will not come to you and ask for 20
million. She's nodding her head yes. I will not do that. But to show you, again, what
that looks like. We will also, like last November with the Economic Development
Strategy, show you ❑ur implementation strategy for some of these policy changes that,
again, may not necessarily have a budget impact, but again, just so you can see how
we're tracking the latter years.
And then, again, full transparency, I was able, in July, to meet with majority of the
Council, and it was a bit split of do we try to do some of that today? But we didn't do
with Economic Development Strategy, I didn't want to rush and give you some fake
numbers because I did that with some of you, and you're like, what? I'm like, oh, no, no,
no, I made up -- I made up some of those numbers. Don't go too far ahead. But also,
come December, we will have some new councilmembers, and so we think, too, you
know, just being fair, that how are we moving forward come fiscal year'25 and the
latter years.
And with that, this does say questions. Madam Mayor, I think you want me to hold the
questions. You're going to open up for public comments, and then I will come back up,
and we'll answer questions. And the team is here and ready. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you very much.
❑o we have any speaker cards?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes, we do. The Town received a total of 13 speaker cards. Ten
were written comments for the agenda item, and then we have three requesting to
speak. So first up to speak will be Jim -- I think it's Bourdamis. I'm not for sure. I'm so
sorry if I mispronounced it.
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BOURDAMIS: Bourdamis.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Bourdamis. That's what I wanted to go with first. Darn it. And
then followed by Jim will be Bradley McNish, and then last, Betsy LaVoie.
BOURDAMIS: Good evening, Mayor, Council, town staff. My name is Jim Bourdamis.
I'm a resident of Fountain Hills for 20 years now. My wife and I operate four businesses
on the avenue, and I am chairperson of TAMA, The Avenue Merchants Association. I'm
here to support the proposed downtown strategy led by our Director of Economic
Development, Amanda.
❑ur town is approximately 25,000 residents, that aside from events, our daily
downtown foot traffic at any time is typically in the hundreds when it really should be in
the thousands. Hundreds means we will see maybe five to ten people a day foot traffic.
That's wear. That's really weak. So we can d❑ better, and we need to do better. We
have a beautiful town, wonderful parks, and art attractions. It provides a nice quality of
life, but it's simply not enough to substantially grow a local economy and build
opportunity. Supporting business has an enormous positive impact on the financial
health of our town. Merchants not only generate sales tax revenue, but we employ
people who also spend money. We purchase local goods and services, we advertise,
and we support charities.
Many of us have reinvested in our -- in remodeling. The multiple -- there's multiple
sources of revenue and economic benefit to the public. I'd say financial prudence
suggests investment is needed to grow and sustain business. i would ask everybody
how much commerce might we recapture from Scottsdale and competing markets with
a more robust downtown? Perhaps generating more revenue to fix more roads, right?
It's time to move forward on the proposed strategy initiatives. Let's give our residents
and visitors a better downtown experience. It's not enough to just say shop local. We
need our 25,000 residents to prefer local. Thank you very much for all you guys do, your
service, and your support. Thank you.
MCNISH: Mayor, Council, thank you for having me, and thank you, Amanda, for the
warm acknowledgments. Yes, I was able to help intern during this project during the
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Downtown Strategy, but I am, as well, a resident, five years now, and I do love this town
very much, and that was part of the reasons why I really wanted to work on this
Downtown Strategy because it's not just a strategy. It's an investment in the
environment; it's an investment in the community; it's an investment in the people. I
don't have much to say. I wasn't really planning on speaking, but I felt like it was right
for me t❑ speak. But I do know there is a lot of potential in this town, and I know there
is so much room for growth, and I believe that this strategy that I have seen the Town
work on hard and hard for the people is a perfect embodiment of that. Thank you.
LAVOIE: Good evening. Betsy LaVoie, long-time resident of Fountain Hills, Chamber of
Commerce CEO, board member and treasurer of Plat 208, member of TAMA, participant
in every focus group for this Downtown Strategy, participant in every parking study for
the downtown. I just want to share that we are in favor of the Downtown Strategy. We
hope that the Council is, too. The Chamber of Commerce is the largest business
advocacy group in Fountain Hills, as you all know, and this is a step in the right direction.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Council, questions for Amanda or comments? Councilman?
FRIEDEL: One comment, kind of a question. You mentioned trees for the downtown
area.
JACOBS: Correct.
FRIEDEL: When you look to put those trees in there, we have several dead trees out at
the dog park in town. Maybe we can do a package deal and get a better price on our
trees and accomplish two things at one time. I just thought I would throw that out
there.
But I do have a couple of other questions. You mentioned temporary use of vacant
property in town. Have we been in touch with any of those ❑wners of those properties
yet? And is there any potential liability for us using those properties?
JACOBS: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Friedel, so first, again, we wanted t❑ bring this
to Council. Again, that chicken and egg, Not circumvent or get anybody excited if
there's not support. So if there is support, then yes, the next thing we would do is talk
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to some of the property owners to see if they're interested, and those folks, other
businesses would help draft that policy. And, of course, with any policy, it goes through
Aaron and his office just to make sure there's no liability.
But part of -- in allowing this use -- so some folks think, okay, are we, as a town,
activating it? From an economic development perspective, no. I would look to invite
the property owner to take that on, that what Council has possibly done in the future is
to relax that -- add that temporary use, but look to the developer, and then, of course,
always be open if there is some type of Public -Private Partnership, but would lead with
we're giving you this opportunity, can you take advantage.
FRIEDEL: So I'm assuming that this is going to fly, and that's why I asked that question.
You mentioned updating the business district. Can you tell us a little bit more about
what you're looking for? Or is that something for a future agenda item that we need to
discuss?
JACOBS: So Madam Mayor, Councilmember Friedel, again, that will come later, but
right now, there's no -- for example, when I use the bioscience and some of the things
that we were having to pass up is there's no industrial use allowed within the business
district, and so when we're talking optics or bioscience industries, it automatically --
they don't qualify, and I can't put folks in that place, anywhere in there and fill those
vacancies.
And I share with all of you and the public because there's been interest from the
community, some of the councilmembers more privately, if there is this opportunity to
change it, I don't want to put someone in there that we may not necessarily want in
there, so I've been kind of holding out. But with something like this, we would draft it,
again, in collaboration with businesses, residents, the property owner. It would go
through the Planning and Zoning Commission and then come before this body for
approval and consideration.
FR[EDEL: So I also notice that there's been a lot of work in recent weeks cleaning up
vacant lots in the downtown area, especially off of Parkview and surrounding areas. Is
the Town involved in that, or is that strictly the landowners?
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JACOBS: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Friedel, I'm going to defer that to Director
Wesley. I'm going to phone a friend to just see if the zoning -- our code enforcement
officers are assisting with that.
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember Friedel, we may have had a little bit. if we've seen a
particular concern, we'd notify the Plat 208, Scott (ph.) over there. But no -- had no
concerted effort to do anything, and I think that really has been mostly the property
owners.
FRIEDEL: Okay. Thank you. So Amanda, you also mentioned people finding direction,
like questioning where would Phil's be and that kind of thing. At one point, we were
talking about kiosks. Is that a dead issue? Are we -- is that still something in the works?
S❑ if somebody could say -- you know, you know what a kiosk is. You are here, and then
it's got a map of where certain establishments are. Is that something we're still looking
at, or is that a dead issue?
JACOBS: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Friedel, so the Fountain Hills Chamber of
Commerce was leading that effort and trying to secure grant funding. After multiple
attempts and then talking to TAMA, The Avenue Merchant Association, they asked it to
actually be DOA, dead on arrival. They feel like there's other priorities and respect that
you have to balance all the needs, and so thinking that the wayfinding signage and then
to get that entryway signage, that that was more important than a kiosk. And then just
my professional experience from a different community is sometimes, again, the kiosks
are very nice, but when it comes to digital, oftentimes you'll walk by, and it's a black
screen, and so who's constantly monitoring it? So it's dead.
FRIEDEL: One last question. i would be in favor of modifying the art policy to include
murals, landscaping art, and also rock art. I think that would be something that's
natural out here, and it would enhance our downtown and other areas as well. So thank
you.
JACOBS: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. More of a comment than -- I don't really need
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a response because I think you know the answer, but I noticed the -- we talked a little
bit about the light manufacturing. One thing I'd make a note is that retail typically adds
the sales tax revenue where manufacturing would not have that component, so I would
think we want -- that if it fits into the overall perspective of waIkability or it's going t❑ be
a draw for foot traffic, that's a good thing. You know, let's say they have many
employees, things like that, then it fits into that niche, but if it doesn't, you know, have
foot traffic, it doesn't provide sales tax revenue, maybe it's not the right fit. So I know
we'll tread lightly there, and I'm sure that Planning and Zoning will do that perfect. But I
just want to make that -- note of that, and I want to make a motion to approve.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Second.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Thank you. Councilmember?
GRZYBOWSKI: I just want t❑ comment that I've had the opportunity to sit in on a
number of calls with the National League of Cities and heard from various cities and
towns throughout the country that have done a pop-up whatever, Food Truck Day or
beer and food truck or, you know, whatever, and they've had so much success doing this
that quite often, the landowner realizes this is a niche that we're missing in town that
nobody thought ❑f before because of the creativity behind the pop-up. So not only is it
great for a one -weekend or a one -day kind of event, but it's also a good learning
experience for the town that, you know, this kind of thing really fits, or maybe this isn't
the best kind of fit. So I think it's brilliant, and I'm really glad that you're talking about
doing that. Thank you.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Counciimember?
TOTH: Well, ditto. I know of a few different areas that will do, like little pop-up
projector movies, and as a special occasion, the businesses will stay open later for those.
Food truck days, any of that, those temporary uses ❑f those vacant lots as event space is
hopefully going to be very beneficial for the town, so I'm very excited about that. This
plan is fantastic. We're finally getting somewhere an doing something for our town.
Not that we haven't done anything, but really having a strategy for how we're going
forward with this downtown. I think that this is so important.
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As it was said by our intern, and thank you for speaking tonight, this town has so much
potential to be a destination that people talk about. We have so much art. We have s❑
much talent. We have so many wonderful events and wonderful businesses on the
avenue, and I can't wait t❑ see where this leads us. And hopefully, 15 years from now,
we all look back and say, wow, this downtown is really special now.
MAYOR DICKEY. Thank you. Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah, just a couple questions for you. Ditt❑
about your assistant. He's a very interesting young man. You're lucky to have him.
Yeah, regarding the vacant lots, I think that's a really good idea to utilize those. For the
people that own them, they can be a money-maker. It will improve the lots because
they'll be trying to attract people, and s❑ it'll make the downtown look much more, like
you said, affluent, much more better, so I think that's an excellent idea.
You mentioned design and a fagade improvement program. Can you drill down a little
more on that and tell us what you mean?
JACOBS: So with some -- Madam Mayor, Vice Mayor Kalivianakis, some cities and towns
will have design standards, and so there is an architectural review. That, again, will go
through a commission, such as the Planning and Zoning Commission or a separate
design review. And so it's meeting architectural features. It could be color that they
need to meet and that guideline.
So when I started with my previous town, I'll say we were very strict. Everything -- like I
told the Mayor, this was copper patina, and the businesses were like, Amanda, we've
got to do something. We have to change this. So somewhere in the middle is, again,
can we have some criteria that everyone's following, and then they know they're within
the downtown. And again, we would get to that deeper -- again, if there is an overall
consensus to move forward, again, staff would work on this and bring this back to this
body.
And then with the facade improvement program, usually you'll look to a business that's
not brand new but someone that's older, so if there's a building that was built in the
'70s and '80s, and approach them to look at the building frontage and how can that be
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modified.
And then, with a fagade improvement program, they may come to the Town -- and
there's some type of cost share. You know, if you put in 50, we'll give you 50 or some
type of dollar amount. Again, we have to work through some of that, and then, of
course, through our attorney's office to make sure we're not violating any gift clauses.
But again, a lot of the downtowns -- I know Queen Creek just had a fagade improvement
program. It's now ended. And so we need t❑ ask them sort of the why. Did you run out
of money? And then, in Mesa, they used ARPA funding and provided four million for
their downtown. And so again, to activate and really give a facelift to some of those
older businesses and, again, to drive that economic development and vitality, so to
retain some of those businesses, drive more people in. So if that helps.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. I just -- I guess the caveat and the thing that I worry about is the
more you regulate something, the less you get of it, and so if we impose another layer
❑f regulations on people that want to open up businesses, could that actually discourage
those businesses from opening here? If we overregulate the facades and the design, it
would actually discourage people from going there. So that's one ❑f the things I'd like to
warn you about.
And then the other thing is with -- a lot of the match fund -- matching funds from state
or localities, you find that fraught with a lot of fraud and with unscrupulous business
owners grabbing your money and then not doing the improvements, so I'm a little
cautious about handing taxpayer money out to help certain businesses. And of course,
then we're going to be picking winners and losers. You know, which businesses qualify,
and then the rest ❑f the business owners are going to be like, well, what about me? You
know, I could use improvements. How come I'm not getting it? Because I'm not in the
downtown? And so there's that fairness argument that, again, we have to be very
conscious ❑f because I hate -- I hate it when government starts picking winners and
losers. It's a bad luck.
The other thing I'd like to discuss is, you know, we've discussed extensively the Avenue
of the Fountains' improvements and the costs associated with that, and it's going t❑ be
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substantial. When you throw Park Place -- or Parkview in the mix, I think it could be an
overreach for this council. I think that this might be, like, five years down the road. if
we want to improve the Avenue of the Fountains and do some of the ideas that we've
discussed, we can't overextend ourselves financially. You know, the sidewalks that
you're proposing, the lighting, all those things are very expensive. And so if we spread it
out too thin, we'll have a lot of mediocre and not anything great.
Like Mr. Bourdamis said, you know, he said, I want this to be a great downtown, I want
it to be a vibrant downtown, I want to get -- instead of hundreds of people, I want to get
thousands of people. Well, the way you do that is you pick one designated area, and
you make it pop. And so again, you know, we looked at the map earlier and all the parts
❑f the downtown improvement that we want to fix, but I'm thinking maybe we should
just do one section right, and then at future councils, we expand from the jewel, which
will be the Avenue of the Fountains.
You also mentioned restrooms. Again, this is kind of like beating a dead horse because
we've been talking about this for years now. And do you have any epiphanies on this
subject? Are we still back to -- like when we talk about a Public -Private Partnership that
usually is associated with Park Place. More Ps. More alliteration. You know, Park Place
doesn't even have the funding to be built yet, and so we're looking at years down the
road. Other than that, we were talking about eminent domain. We were talking about
all this kind of stuff, Again, this might be something that we backburner the restrooms
for now because f just don't see the practical way we're going to do it based on all the
previous meetings we've had.
The murals. If businesses want t❑ have murals inside their building, you know, God
bless them. That's great. ❑n the utility boxes, looks kind of neat. But I would be really
against doing it on the outside walls of the businesses. Again, we talk about an affluent
community. Fountain Hills has got a certain panache. And then, if we do all these crazy
murals, I just think it's going to devalue the property. It'll devalue the whole town. I
don't like that idea. But you know, if people want to do it inside their buildings,
whatever.
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And then the last thing is the entryway and monument signs. Now, would this be for
commercial businesses or for, like, apartment buildings? What did you envision with
th at?
JACOBS: So Madam Mayor, Vice Mayor Kalivianakis, so that would be looking at can we
add this in some of the town -owned right-of-way. So again, thinking of if you're
entering into the avenue, again, we're going t❑ have to look up price and see, you know,
❑n each corner, do you have ave. district. Like, you are coming into the ave. district. If
you're coming from Saguaro, do you have a cool pop-up entryway sign that says
❑owntown FH? So that's what we're envisioning. And again, if there's that overall
support, we'll roll up our sleeves, see where the priority is, and present that in
December for Council consideration.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. So it wouldn't be t❑ put monuments for retail ❑r commercial
interest. It would be --
JACOBS: Correct.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- to promote the town?
JACOBS: Correct.
KALIVIANAKIS; Okay. Thank you for clarifying that.
JACOBS: Yeah. You're welcome.
KALIVIANAKIS: I like monument signs. I think that's a good idea.
JACOBS: Thank you.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you.
JACOBS: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilmember Toth.
TOTH: I figure, hopefully, we can just g❑ ahead and vote, but I'll keep this short. This is
a bird's-eye view overall plan. It's not all going to fit within our council term. It might be
several councils. That's why I said ten, 15 years from now, we might look back and be
really proud of this strategy.
The -- any of the weeds here that gets worked ❑ut as we approve these changes and
policies, but I don't think that -- I don't think that removing an area from downtown
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because it might not be as good as Avenue of the Fountains is the answer. If we leave it
as is, Park Place is -- you know, let's be honest with ❑urselves. It needs a little love. And
we will be starting with Avenue of the Fountains, but -- I said Park Place. I meant
Parkview. Sorry, everybody.
JACOBS: I knew what you meant.
TOTH: No, not what I meant. Parkview needs a little love, and it's an extremely wide
street. It's very empty. It doesn't look like an area you want to walk around and shop.
It looks like an area you stop at for the one place you're going to and then you leave,
and that's kind of what it is right now. I know I said I'd keep this short, but I think the
answer of we might not do it the way I want it, so let's just do nothing is not really the
way to go here.
MAYOR DICKEY: Just two things. The vacant lots, i think that's great. And when -- the
first time you brought them up, you said that, you know, the Town would do something
about it, but I'm assuming that means we would have some sort of regulations in there,
not that we're in there actually doing the work, right?
JACOBS: Madam Mayor, yeah, correct, because if we do approach a developer now t❑
do this, they'd kind of be in violation of code, and I'm sure the residents would be
contacting you and staff, and we'd be Bearing about it. So again, let's try to get
something in writing and approved and then activate it.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Thank you.
JACOBS: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: And then you mentioned pedestrian -oriented signage, and even
though I know the restroom is really expensive and we don't know where and all that
stuff, we did agree to put signage up that would help direct them either, you know, if it's
during the week, t❑ here or that they know that there are several over at the fountain.
So at least if you're kind of there, everybody's like restroom, even though it might be a
little bit ❑f a hike, at least you know there's one there and --
JACOBS: And Madam Mayor, we put together a map as staff and then partnering with
the Chamber because their restrooms are open, and then I've let our Public Works and
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Community Services Department know as the Farmers' Market begins to start, we'll
activate and we'll take care of some of that signage based on direction from Council.
MAYOR DICKEY: So that covers two of your points up there. And then the wayfinding, I
think -- did we decide to do that all in one year? Because remember, we took the
money from the restroom and decided we would do it all in one year?
GOODWIN: If 1 recall, we decided to kind of hold the restroom money, wait to see what
we got back in terms of quote and how much came back, and then if we -- if we can
swing it, absolutely. If we need to kind of join two years together in a seamless -- we
can do that, too. And I think, actually, we'll be coming back with that -- probably sooner
rather than later with those quotes and then kind of figuring out next steps.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, because I think we said let's just do the wayfinding signs in one
year --
GOODWIN: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and that we would probably get better pricing.
GOODWIN: As long as it comes in under -- within the budget.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. Which was the 500 or something, so --
JACOBS. Yes. We started at 750, and we got direction -- how about, no, 500 now, so --
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, that should work out. Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you, Amanda, for taking all this information and putting it succinctly
in a few slides and explaining the broad overview of how we're looking at the
Downtown Strategy Plan and taking all that input from the public and including it and so
that they're part of this decision and design for where they live downtown as well. And
again, I don't think downtown is just Avenue of the Fountains. I think the map you have
here depicts exactly what our downtown area is, how we're trying to coagulate it all,
bring it all together so that it represents Fountain Hills. It opens up new business
opportunities for those, hopefully, vacant lots, et cetera. And so as this unfolds, we'll
be -- you'll be bringing it back to Council. So thank you very much. I appreciate it.
JACOBS: You're welcome. And Madam Mayor, Councilmember McMahon, of course,
not all at once. And again, we'll dive into more of that -- those priorities and staff time
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in December, but again, with the approval, knowing that if you guys do approve it
tonight, tomorrow we're starting on the entertainment district and business district.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible),
FRIEDEL: ❑ne last comment on the facade program. I came from a town where we had
a very successful fagade program, and it revitalized the whole downtown area. And
what we found in a lot of cases is that the businesses in the buildings don't -- aren't
necessarily the owners of the buildings. And we know those owners, They've been here
for years. So I'm not worried about it. I think it would be very successful.
JACOBS: Thank you.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Do we have a motion and a second? Can we have a roll call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedei?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Motion passed unanimous.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Yay. No clapping, but we're happy.
JACOBS: ❑n behalf of staff, Mayor, Council, thank you for your unanimous support. We
appreciate it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So our next item is actually a hearing, so I'm going to -- I'm
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going to open up the hearing, and we'll hear presentation, and we could -- and then
we'll get cards from the folks here, and then we can keep speaking, or we can close the
hearing, and then we can speak amongst ourselves. So we'll get started with the
presentation.
WESLEY: That made me nervous there for a second. Okay, Mayor and Council, good
evening. Yes, we're here to talk about a topic that's been discussed for a couple of
years, and so it's going to be, maybe, a bit of a longer presentation this evening because
we've got a lot of ground to cover, so hopefully, you can stay with me as we go through
this.
This overall presentation is really divided into two basic parts. First part is going to be
going over some background and discussions on the terminologies and so forth that
we've been hearing over the last couple of years, and then the second part is getting
into the actual ordinance that we have submitted for your consideration tonight.
So with that, back in June of 2022 is when the Council first started getting the public
coming to council meetings and bringing up the topic of wireless communications in
town. Here are a couple of quotes that came from some of those June meetings
focusing on 5G and 5G upgrades and 5G small cell antennas being the concern that they
felt the Town should address.
S❑ first of all, what is 5G? So it's the next generation of wireless communications after
4G. We started back some years ago with the first generation of wireless
communication that has -- they have changed over time. They've just gotten numbered.
You get your i10 and your i12 and your i14 phone or whatever as things upgrade or your
Windows 10 or your Windows -- you know, whatever it is. So it's the next upgrade in
the wireless technology, going to 5G.
Compared to earlier generations, as they improved data transmissions, more consistent
connections. The waves are shorter, and so they travel kind of shorter distances and
more often receive interference from structures and things. They can use smaller
transmitters. They do work with both Internet and telephone.
And the other thing that we had been hearing from those early comments is about small
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cell, and a lot of times, we have equated 5G with small cell, but they're actually two
different things. Small cell deals with the size of the antenna and equipment that go
with it. Both the FCC and state statutes where they set out the parameters for 5G
define, excuse me, small cells, set out the criteria for what qualifies as a small cell tower
and antenna system, and you can read those there.
And with that, there's n❑ mention of the technology that goes with those towers and
antennas. Whether it's 4G or 5G or the future 6G or if it's broadband ❑r voice, it's a
small cell facility. Small cells can go in the right-of-way. They can go on private
property.
Now, going back to some of the history in terms of what we've been hearing from the
public, I did go back and review each of the Town Council meetings for the comments
that were made over the last couple of years, and so some of the things that we
continue to hear about concern small cell phone antennas; macro towers; poles being
over 500 feet; the health impacts; having pop-up in yards; the aesthetics and density of
antennas. And more recently, the need to update our small cell ordinance and put --
need to put utilities underground; concerns with data versus voice; fall zones. And more
recently, we're not talking about cellular, we're talking about the wide band; not talking
about towers, talking about broadband; asking for one thing, broadband underground in
homes.
So all that's been maybe a little bit of a challenge to focus in on, you know, what are the
issues, what are we trying to address, but one of the things, too, is that broadband
started becoming more the topic. Well, what is broadband? Here is a brief description
of what it is in terms of the speeds that it operates at. It is Internet or data, and it can
be accessed a number of ways, both through wires and wirelessly.
There is some confusion, too, about 5G broadband versus 5G cellular. So when -- 5G
broadband is actually the 5 giga hertz Wi-Fi, and 5G cellular, again, is that fifth
generation of the wireless cell phone, So again, they sometimes get used
interchangeably, but they are different items. Here's just a graphic I thought was kind of
cool, so I threw it in in terms of the spectrum of frequencies, and the area there kind of
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highlighted in the red is the mobile phones and the wireless data area of the overall
spectrum, and that's where we're focused.
So again, one of the issues that people bring up is the impact of cell towers on property
values. There are some studies that have been done that have shown reductions in
property values based on proximity to cell towers, but there are lots of things that can
impact cell towers -- or property values. Staff took some time to look at the area
around each of the cell towers in Fountain Hills, and we looked at the home values
closest to the towers and compared them to ones a little further away. We could not
actually see any definable pattern or difference in how the towers may be affecting
those property values.
So again, kind of a summary of the citizens' concerns as we've come to understand them
over the last couple years is a desire to develop an underground network for broadband
service to reduce or eliminate the need for small wireless facilities -- small cell facilities;
wanting to see stronger regulations on small cell towers and antennas, especially in
residential areas, to protect citizens' property values; a desire to improve the
regulations for regular wireless communication facilities to ensure we're staying within
the FCC guidelines, protecting citizens and property values.
With that, given the state statute constraints on what we can do with the small cell
wireless in the right-of-way and the challenges of even putting those in here at Fountain
Hills, we haven't had any successfully come through to fruition here in Fountain Hills in
the five or six years it's been possible. Given the continued work that we do have with
regular cell towers and the needs we had to upgrade that portion of the code, Chapter
17 of the Zoning Ordinance, that's where staff is focused at this point, and that's what
the discussion is about this evening.
What's been provided to you is a update to that chapter. That is not to negate the fact
that Council could, after dealing with this, direct staff to work on the other things that
the public has brought up: the small cell, the right-of-way regulations, get a consultant
to help us understand more deeply the differences between the data or the broadband
service and the voice service, and is there any way within the regulations to distinguish
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those. I've not seen It in anybody's codes.
So again, it would take a professional to get in there and help us understand that and
see if there are opportunities. And also, we could get the consultant to help us look at
the possibilities of an inground broadband network throughout the town. So again,
operating -- or moving forward with this does not negate the ability to go and also
address those other things that have been a concern to the citizens as directed by the
Council.
5o a few more background things I just wanted to touch on quickly because one of the
concerns we hear is are towers going to go in my lot or on my neighbor's lot or whatever
in the residential areas. So nothing will go ❑n an individual's property without them
signing a lease for that tower to be there in a residential area. That will also require a
Council use permit, which goes through a public hearing process. 5o that won't just
happen in a residential area without notice and, again, agreement of the property
owner.
In the right-of-way area, which is the red hatched area in front ❑f the property, between
your property line and the curb, that's where the small cell wireless can go per state
statute, and we have some limited opportunities there. And again, that's a different
topic. That's not part of what we're discussing tonight. But there is still a process for
those in terms ❑f the Council approving the terms and conditions and also the
encroachment permit and any building permits. 5o there's n❑ real change from the way
the ordinance is today, what's being proposed in terms of how that affects the
residential properties.
5o really, on any town -owned property, town parks, yes, they can go in those areas with
Council approval of a lease agreement if it's within 300 feet of residential use, and it
would also require a public hearing for the tower permit. And just like elsewhere in
town, if it's in the right-of-way and it's small cell, again, state statute has said they can
go there, but we can still review them. And again, that's no real change with the current
ordinance.
In commercial and industrial areas, yes, cell towers can go there by right within the code
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parameters that we have. However, if it's within 300 feet of residential use, it still
would come to Council for a special use permit. And again, a small cell in a right-of-way
is allowed.
And also, then, maybe one last thing here. Just types of towers. Lattice towers,
monopoles, stealth poles of different varieties. Can be integrated into buildings.
There's also temporary towers that may come in. If you're removing a tower from
service to probably build a new one, you might have a temporary tower, ❑r if you got a
big event, you might bring in these temporary towers, sometimes called COWS, cells on
wheels. And then utility service antennas. It's a new item that we are adding to the
code because of these types ❑f SRP facilities that we've been seeing around town.
There'll be more on that. And that's covered both in this ordinance and the following
one, a change to Chapter 15 of the town code.
So that's my quick overview/background ❑f some of the basics behind what we're
looking at tonight and where we are. So in terms of our recommended ordinance for
your consideration this evening, this is an outline of the existing and proposed
❑rdinance. So I've tried to simplify some things, combine some things and organize
them, we think, a little bit better than they have been.
And so I'm not going to go through -- I'm sure you're disappointed, but I'm not going to
go through page by page and point by point in the code, but a little bit more high-level
review here, just kind of what the process would be and how the code works. 5o the
first thing of when an application is submitted, we would be looking at it is it something
that would meet the criteria for administrative review or would it require public review.
And so Section 17.04(a) sets forth the criteria for different types of admin reviews.
Most of the admin reviews are for existing cell towers that are operational and they're
making a change to them, and the criteria listed here under the bullet points are
adopted standards largely through the industry over the last several years, FCC rulings,
and so forth, in terms of what the percentage of change can happen on an
administrative level or required to be done on an administrative level. (Indiscernible)
the Town from doing a public review that meets those kind of criteria. This is all the
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different types of admin reviews. These would be the criteria. If they fall outside these
criteria, then it would kick it into a public review.
The utility service antennas would be done administratively, any COWS for more than
seven days. Less than seven days, we're just doing them by right. They come in for a
special event, they're here, they're gone. But if they're going to be here longer than
that, then we do an administrative review for more than seven days. And the new
antennas that are at least 300 feet from residential could be approved or reviewed
today administratively, and one of the reasons for that is that we are trying to
encourage them to be further away from residential, and so you can make -- away from
residential, the easy ones to get approved, that's where the industry's going to look first.
If everything's equally hard, then they might as well look in the residential areas as the
commercial areas.
And so then, basically, anything that doesn't meet those administrative criteria is a
public review. 5o any new tower that's within residential -- or within 300 feet of
residential would require review by the Council. Any tower, again, that didn't meet the
review criteria to be administrative. And towers that do not meet the separate
requirements that we'll talk about a little bit more in a minute would also, then, require
Council approval.
So after we look at the application and determine if it's administrative ❑r public review,
then we'd be looking at the submittal requirements, make sure they've submitted the
required items per the code. So most of those -- the criteria is in 17.05, but it also
references back to 17.03(a), which are the general requirements that set out a lot ❑f the
aesthetic requirements and some of those things, so we would have t❑ make sure that
they are meeting all of those requirements. Then the inventory of existing sites. There
are, following that, specific requirements for utility service antennas that they would
need t❑ make sure they have submitted that information, specific requirements for
applications involving existing towers. So the admin ones primarily, and then specific
requirements are listed for any new towers.
So after we've ensured that we have all the proper information that's been submitted
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for the review as required by the code, that would be actually part of the first phase of
the shot clock timing that we have in terms of the number of days allowed for the
administrative review of the application to make sure that it is complete. And then we
have the actual review time frames, and again, these are established through various
FCC rulings and time frames that have been set. And we basically have to act within
those time frames or they're automatically approved. So we go through that. But then
also in that section ❑n shot clocks, we have some extensive discussion about what can
stop the clock and give us more time for those different reviews, so that's described in
that section.
Then we get the actual review and processing the request. So in 17.05(c), it lists criteria
for all applications that are criteria as part of the review and what we'd be looking for
before it could be approved. And then item 2 in that list is for the admin applications
and what's required for those reviews that may be a little bit different or extra based ❑n
the general criteria.
And then item 3 lists the additional requirements for the public review applications, and
one of those is that for those on private property, we would review them as special use
permits, and so all the requirements within that section ❑f the Zoning Ordinance would
apply in terms of the citizen participation, the good neighbor, the public hearing, and so
forth. If it's on town property, we don't actually issue the special use permit because it's
our property, but we'd still take them through the same process. That's one of the
things that's lacking in the current code. It just says you're going to Town Council, but it
doesn't tell us how we get there, and so we're establishing that so it's clear what that
requirement would be.
S❑ I must, again, demonstrate t❑ Council that no ❑ther tower -existing technology would
work and that Council has the ability to impose any conditions they feel necessary to
minimize any adverse impact.
So after going through the review and processing, then it can be approved, and then the
tower gets built. And so then we have standards in here for the maintenance and
operations of the towers. If it's not used for a period of time, if it's abandoned, we can
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require it to be removed. There are various state and federal requirements that they
must meet or exceed. And if there are changes from the federal level, they have six
months to comply with those changes. They must submit reports as required by this
section to document that they have complied. And with new towers, within 40 days --
45 days of initial operation, need to verify that they meet the RF requirements. And
then a random radio frequency requirement can be done at the owner's expense at
least once a year, and if we find violations more than three times in five years, their
permit can be revoked.
This section also covers the requirement to comply with building codes and other town
codes. So there are Zoning Ordinance standards and other town code standards for
maintenance of property. And you know, some concerns about, you know, graffiti may
happen on some of these towers or their fences and so forth, s❑ all that's covered in the
town code as far as the removal of those. If found in violation, they get 30 days to
correct, and then we can move on with other enforcement action and with noise issues.
S❑ in quick summary, then, of the overall code, it addresses visual impacts. It provides
aesthetic standards, which includes the requirements for stealth design. No lights are
allowed except as may be required by the FAA. It makes provisions for co -locations, and
this includes the minimum standards for -- providing for co -location of at least two
additional antennas.
Requires security fencing. Requires landscaping. Sets some noise standards that are
consistent with how the Town has addressed noise standards overall. Requires
structural certification by registered engineers and verification by the Town engineer.
Requires setbacks from a property line equal to the height of the tower. And I know this
is one section of the code that I've had to read several times to understand the different
separation requirements that it has listed.
So the first one is that a tower has to be set back from a property line at least the height
of the tower so that if it falls, it stays on the property. The second one is separation
from other uses, and s❑ if you've -- this lists the different uses and how far you have to
be from it. So from the established single-family residence or duplex unit, you have to
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be at least 200 feet away from that unit, so if your -- where you think you're going to put
it on your property, it meets your fall zone, but it still isn't 200 feet away from a
residence on another property, that doesn't work. You have to move it to meet both
standards. These standards have been in place since '98.
At this point, we have very limited area in town where there's residential that's platted
and not built. You know, the only real area of that is up on the state trust land, and so
the piece down there that talks about vacant, unplatted residential lands and 100 feet,
that's the only area where that would really apply today. The code does allow the Town
Council to approve a reduction in those setbacks, but it has to be based on a Council
determination that the reduction better serves the town goals. I think that's a pretty
high bar to be able to get a reduction, but the code has allowed for that and continues
to allow forth at.
There's been some discussion at the P and Z level about increasing these numbers
maybe up to 500 feet. That's certainly possible. Whatever the Council would like to do.
There is some concern as we look at that in terms of that because our commercial areas
are s❑ small, that really limits, in town, where the towers can go and basically makes
everything require a special use permit or Town Council review at that point. So again,
it's -- the Council could make that choice if you want, but that would be the potential
impact. And similarly, there's also been -- the third separation requirement is a
separation between towers, so depending on how tall they are, they would have to be
further apart, and so again, no changes are proposed there at this point.
I think this may be about the last one on the summaries. Again, requires public review
and Council approval for towers in or within 300 feet of residential. Requires a review
of alternative locations for new towers to be backed up with a drive test if requested by
Council. Requires a statement of compliance with FCC radio frequency. Allows the
Town to impose conditions of approval and establishes ongoing maintenance and
operation requirements.
So that's my review of the ordinance as it's been presented to you. We did get some
requests for possible modifications to the ordinance. Vice Mayor reviewed it. We
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appreciate the time she spent going through it in detail. And so I'm going to present
these. You've got hard copies there. I'll let the Vice Mayor, as she wants here, to talk
about why she proposed these.
But here is a section that requires, in the first sentence, basically some stealth kind of
designs. The second sentence does the same thing pretty much in a little more succinct
way, so the proposal is to eliminate that first sentence. This provision talks about
minimizing visual impacts and moving the tower down a hill so it's not as visible over
hill. That does potentially cause some problems, maybe needing more towers because
you've got to have one now on each side of the hill, so I understand that concern. Staff
would maybe suggest keeping the first sentence, maybe replacing the "must" with a
"should" if you -- if you think that would be helpful, but would want Council
consideration of that.
The next modification is -- again, we've got tw❑ sentences here, both dealing with some
issues with screening and noise. The second one by itself maybe does the same thing a
little bit more clearly. And then this section, the last part of it talks about the need to
get a build -out plan for the future of the wireless facility. That was thought to maybe be
a little bit more of an overreach than we need. And then lastly, this section in 17.05
requires the drive test, and again, that was thought to maybe be a little bit more than
what is typically needed. So again, with those -- that's my quick review of what those
modifications were.
Any questions, Mayor, that anybody has for me at this time? Or how would you like to
proceed?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, I think I'm going to allow a little bit of questioning to you, and
then we'll take the speaker cards because it might help a little bit to go forward. I think
Hannah had her -- had her light on.
TOTH: I actually had a question about the proposed amendments. Am I allowed to do
that? Or is that considered discussion? ❑kay. I would really like to hear the argument
for, "The removal of towers must be placed to minimize visual impacts. Applicant shall
place towers ❑n the side slope of the terrain so that as much as possible, the top of the
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tower does not protrude over the ridgeline as seen from public ways." Why are we --
FRIEDEL: Mayor--
TOTH: -- recommended to just strike that?
FRIEDEL: Mayor, before we --
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Councilman?
FRIEDEL: --before we g❑ any further, I have a point of order with this. What was
presented to the public did not include this. You can't publish one thing and then
present something at a council meeting, The public hasn't had any time to digest any of
these proposed changes. I don't think this should be talked about right now. I have a
hard time with this. This was --
MAYOR DICKEY: I will Aaron answer --
FRIEDEL: -- this was sprung -- this was sprung on us four hours before the council
meeting. This is not right.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: I'm going to let Aaron answer because if you think of it in terms of an
amendment, she could orally be doing these at the meeting. You know, that -- if you
amend something while you're at the meeting, you're reacting to it at the meeting.
FRIEDEL: I get that, but the public is so involved in this process with this -- for two years,
the public had no knowledge of any of these changes. They didn't -- they didn't --
KALIVIANAKIS: So we don't have the right --
MAYOR DICKEY: Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let's -- We don't have the right to
amend -- Let's just --
KALIVIANAKIS: --our own ordinance?
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Let's --
KALIVIANAKIS: This is (indiscernible).
TOTH: Point of order. We're not discussing.
MAYOR DICKEY: Let's have -- let's have some order, please. So my point would be --
and I -- you know, and I just got them as well -- would be that while we are discussing
this, any one of us can amend anything, and nobody will have seen it or heard it at that
point, either. S❑ if Vice Mayor wants to present these as amendments orally, then she
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can do that just like any one of us can do it, and it would be information that none of us
will have heard yet or anybody would have heard. She's trying -- she amending
something that's ahead ❑f us, and we all will have to react to new information when
people amend the things in front of us, so -- and again, this does sort of touch on one of
the issues which we had before, which was what do we do when there's something in
writing. Basically, she didn't have to give it to us in writing, and we would just be
hearing her make these amendments orally.
KALIVIANAKIS: And Ms. Mayor, if I may address Gerry's point of order, these potential
amendments, Gerry, were sent last summer to the Planning and Zoning Commission.
They had access to them as well as us having access to them if you would have read the
CTIA report, which was part of their package and was part of our package.
TOTH: Point of order.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Let's just --
TOTH: This is not the discussion.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: I'm sorry.
KALIVIANAKIS: Gerry said that the public didn't have a chance nor did --
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Okay.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- Planning and Zoning have a chance --
TOTH: Point of order.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- to see these, and they actually did. They were --
MAYOR DICKEY: Let's wait until I -- let's wait until I recognize --
KALIVIANAKIS: -- they were sent to the Planning and Zoning Committee last summer.
Okay?
MAYOR DICKEY: Let's wait until I recognize people to speak, please. Aaron, would you
please explain a little bit about this?
ARNSON: Mayor and Council, I don't -- I don't know what to say with regard to -- with
regard to these amendments or any amendments that are presented immediately
before a council meeting. This is a discussion that we've been having for, like, the last
year and a half, and we still haven't found out a good way to get things in front of the
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council in a way that gives the council notice about what a proposed amendment's
going to be. So we still haven't found out a good way to do that.
I don't know who it was sent to or when, but my guess is that Councilwoman
Kaiivianakis wanted to put it up here -- and I'll let her speak for herself, but wanted to
put it up here so that we can at least read or put up on a projector screen ❑r something
what the heck is going on and what the proposed amendments are so that we can avoid
the issues that have happened before when the public, in fact, had no notice and the
people sitting up here had no notice of what was going on.
So we can -- we can do without the written version of it, but if Brenda wants to read
them verbatim, she still has the ability to do that. I mean, at this point, it's a distinction
without difference, and I don't know what the best way to deal with these amendments
coming forward before is. This has happened three or four times, and we still don't
have a good way of doing it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I do want to make a note on the amendment
issue, and I'm going to cite our rules. 4.3C, Amendments. "A published agenda may be
amended up to 72 hours prior to such meeting. In exceptional circumstances, such
agenda may be amended up to, but not less than, 24 hours prior to the designated
meeting." It appears to me that this written amendment is not within that time frame.
And maybe the Chair should do a ruling on this.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: I think we're not talking about amending the agenda. I think, if you just
take these pieces of paper and throw them away and let her present them as
amendments, that's -- then we'll all talk about them, and all find out about them at the
same time because that's basically what she's doing, and that's basically what any one
of us can do while we're up here is amend what's in front of us, and it will all -- it'll be
new to all of us. Sharron?
GRZYBOWSKI: I just want to say this is probably 100 percent my fault because the same
exact thing happened when we discussed the Rules of Procedure, and I'm the only one
that rang a bell and had a problem with it. And at the time -- I would have to double
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check the verbatim, but at the time, we all kind of agreed, okay, if we're going to make
these kinds of changes and it's in writing, let's do what we can to present it beforehand.
So this is totally my fault. I take the hit on it. I mean, you know, you always blame the
person that's leaving, right? So I'm going to take the hit on this --
FRIEDEL: After you're gone.
GRZYBOWSKI: Oh, oh, after I'm gone. Oh, okay. S❑ next meeting, you guys remember
this. It's okay to blame me for this particular issue. So I totally take the hit on that
because I will admit I lost my chit when we get a whole piece of paper for Rules of
Procedure that we already reviewed, and I was upset because the gallery hadn't had a
chance to see it, and I'm the only one that questioned it at the time. And we were okay
with it then, so as far as I'm concerned, we're okay with it now.
MAYOR DICKEY: And that's -- the Rules of Procedure that exist right now, this does
comply with. But again, just for the idea of being able to amend any of this -- like, you
know, Gerry, you could decide you want to take out something and put something else
in, We'll all hear that for the first time. So if we -- yes, we have it in writing, but we
don't.
And you were able to present it, which is technically helpful, but you know, if we want
to proceed as if Brenda's going to go through these and amend them, then she will
make a motion to amend, and then we'll hear them for the first time, or we'll hear
them, and then we'll decide whether we want to support the amendments or not. And
I'm sure there's other amendments that other people might want to make that none of
us have heard yet, either, so -- but technically, this complies with our existing Rules of
Procedure. Thank you, Sharron.
MCMAHON: Also, when we have discussions about different ordinances or anything
that's in writing, we always have opportunity to provide an amendment after a
discussion and thinking about it, that maybe it would be better to be written this
particular way, et cetera, or that's amended s❑ we omit that particular section. That's
just something that is done during the course of our discussions about these matters so
we can come to a resolution. And in other cases, the ordinances have the ordinance
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reflect our discussion and what we wanted to have happen. So I don't see these
particular suggest -- they're even suggestions or something as a document that is
amending the agenda item or anything like that. I look at it as discussion points. And
they -- and again, this information, this letter from CTIA, it's been out in the public for a
while, so --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. So why don't we go ahead and take Call to the Public, and
then -- I'm sorry. Would you like a rest?
TOTH: I had a question before all of that.
MAYOR DICKEY. ❑kay.
TOTH: This was the question portion, not the discussion portion,
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible)?
TOTH: Am I repeating it? My question was I wanted to ask my fellow councilmember
the proposed amendment that's on the presentation removing "towers must be placed
to minimize visual impacts. Applicants shall place towers on the side slope of the terrain
so that, as much as possible, the top of the tower does not protrude over the ridgeline
as seen from public ways," the proposed amendment would completely strike the
sentence, and I would just like to hear the why on that.
KALIVIANAKIS: ❑kay. And thank you for that question, Hannah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Hold on a minute, Vice --
KALIVIANAKIS: That's a very good -- that's a --
MAYOR DICKEY: Hold on a minute, Vice Mayor.
KALIVIANAKIS: Oh, sure. I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: So would you like to do this now, then? We can go through all of your
amendments, and you can say what you think -- you know, what led to that.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. I would certainly --
TOTH: Well, this was included in the presentation, so it's a question that --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
TOTH: -- I was given permission to ask.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. I might suggest that I answer -- if I may, Ms. Mayor, I might
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suggest I answer this one, then we can go to the Call to the Public, and then maybe we
can revisit the amendments if that's what people want to do.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Yeah, the reason I did this amendment was because it's actually
going to -- if we do this below the slope line, and it's going to block the line of sight with
radio waves, and it's actually going to make them put up more towers or more of these
units, not less, if you look at, "Applicants shall place towers on the slope line of the
terrain so that, as much as possible, the top of the tower does not protrude over the
ridgeline," this restriction is likely to undermine the Town's objective to minimize new
sites because placing the site below the ridgeline on a slope will severely restrict signal
propagation from the tower since wireless signals travel via line of sight. The smaller
coverage area is, thus, likely to generate more applications for facilities to cover the
same service area. So if we're trying to minimize these sites, we would actually increase
their height so it could serve both sides of the ridgeline, not having a separate tower on
each side. So it's good because we'll have less towers, not more.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman McMahon?
MCMAHON: John, can you address that? Is that correct? Or I'm trying to understand
the whole concept myself, s❑ --
WESLEY: Yes. Mayor, Councilmember, at least in theory, that would be correct. If
you've got the ridgeline and you bring the tower down here, s❑ now the ridge blocks
that from the other side of the ridge, then you may need a tower over here, but if you're
up higher on that ridge, then it can more easily serve both sides.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
FRIEDEL: John, can that still be done to minimize the visual effects? It could still be
done that way. I don't -- I don't think -- I agree with Hannah. I don't think we strike this
entire paragraph. You still want to minimize visual impacts, whether it's on the top of
the ridge or down below the ridge. Am I correct?
WESLEY: Mayor, Council member, that's correct. As staff has looked at this in the way I
think we would apply it -- again, it's a little bit -- I don't know what word I want to use
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there, so I'll just go on. So it says, "as much as possible.'' When they proposed to put
the tower there, there's a certain service area they're trying to serve, and I think we
recognize, well, if we move that too far down the hill, now it's not going to achieve the
goal of that service area, so we wouldn't require to go any further down the hill than is
necessary to continue to provide that service, and so I think we would logically balance
those out trying to push it as far as possible but without impacting service.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKiS: ❑h, I'm sorry. I didn't turn my light off.
MAYOR DICKEY: So can we just leave the first sentence? I mean, would that be all right
with you? Would that be something that you would think -- the one that says towers
must be placed to minimize visual impacts?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, I can live with that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Hannah? Okay. S❑ before we go -- get too far into this and start
amending it and such, let's -- does anybody -- do you need a break? Anybody need a
break? No?
FRIEDEL: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY; Is that a yes? Okay. Let's take ten minutes. Thanks.
[RECESS]
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks, everyone. Let's get started. And we will start with our speaker
cards, please.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Thank you, Mayor. The Town received a total of 50 speaker cards.
42 were in writing, 15 for, 27 against, and we have eight wishing to speak. So first up to
speak will be Liz Gildersleeve followed by Mathew Corrigan.
GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening. Liz Gildersleeve, Fountain Hills resident. Like many here,
I have concerns with the draft ordinance for the wireless towers. For starters, I don't
believe the protections for town residents and property owners g❑ far enough. I
appreciate the attempt at some of the aesthetics for new towers in front of residences,
but where are more specific provisions that would protect residents and property
owners against injuries, even financial injuries, should a tower in front of a residence fall
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or reduce property values? Because, let's face it, who wants a house with a 20-foot
tower in the front yard?
Regarding actual injuries, for example, what if one of these towers topples over during a
monsoon and falls near or ❑n my house and causes damage or, worse, burns my house
down? What if someone is hurt or killed? What if the tower is installed incorrectly? Is
the Town responsible for damages or the wireless provider? Right now, as written, if
something like this happens and my house is damaged or worse, you can bet I'm coming
for the Town of Fountain Hills and perhaps even those of you personally, whether you're
still a councilmember or not, for my damages should you vote to approve an ordinance
that didn't adequately protect my property or my family.
Where are the sections in this ordinance about insurance and indemnification from the
wireless provider? It's not difficult to envision personal injury attorneys wrapping up
lawsuits against cities and towns and even council members when damages occur. A
quick Google search reveals this is already happening.
Lastly, the Town -- is the Town reaping any financial benefit by allowing tower
installations beyond an application fee? Increased towers will enrich wireless providers.
Will it also enrich our town? In full transparency, let's get those financial details and
requirements out in the open and memorialize them in the ordlnance. Again, lots of
questions and definitely not enough protections for residents and the Town and
accountability from the wireless providers. To approve this tonight as written would be
irresponsible and, frankly, a dereliction of your duty. Thank you for your time tonight.
CORRIGAN: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, Mathew Corrigan, Fountain Hills. I had
some prepared remarks before I came tonight. Little research. Not much. All I needed
to do was look at prior comments in prior meetings, both Planning and Zoning and Town
Council. As many of you know, I've been attending Town Council and Planning and
Zoning meetings for a couple of years now, and the thing that I find most interesting
about tonight is I have never seen this information that was planned and presented by
John, and this is all new information.
Now, here's something interesting. Campanelli, who was the, apparently, paid attorney
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for consultation on broadband, that information did not reach Planning and Zoning. i
attended Planning and Zoning, I believe it was July 8th, and Planning and Zoning was
somewhat baffled by the fact that they were not allowed to see the Campanelli letter or
any information pertaining to that information, and apparently, that was restricted by
someone, maybe the town attorney, but it was not provided.
Now, remember that Planning and Zoning has to have some idea of what to approve or
not to approve, so withholding that information from the attorney, who is an expert on
all capacities of broadband, is obviously unusual. So why did that happen, number one?
And what is the definition of public information? When was the public, other than the
Council -- and maybe not even Planning and Zoning. When was the so-called public
information available?
Again, a lot of this is new to me tonight, and I've attended just about every meeting.
Maybe someone can explain that. There's obvious problems, and all you have to do is
go to a website provided by someone like April McCormick and go to broadband
technology --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
CORRIGAN: I'm not finished with my three minutes.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
CORRIGAN: Oh, okay. I thought 1 heard something in the back. But anyway, I don't
need time back on the clock. What I want to say is that we've had all the information
from residents, individual residents. All the information on broadband has come not
from the staff, not from the attorney, but from individuals who researched, took their
own time and capability and volunteered that time and presented not to Town Council
but to Planning and Zoning, and many times, I saw Planning and Zoning look to them for
information. Lori Troller, Larry Meyer (sic), all of these people provided information.
These were individuals who, with their own time and own opportunity, presented
information.
Why tonight are we getting so-called public information we've never heard about? It's a
question. And I would -- I would -- I would compel you -- I would ask you, as the Town
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Council, not t❑ move too rapidly when you don't have all the information. We certainly
don't. Thank you.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Okay. Next up, we have Jerry Holtzman, followed by Crystal
Cavanaugh.
HOLTZMAN: Hello, Mayor, City Councilmembers. I'm Jerry Holtzman, a member of the
community. I would just like to bring up a different aspect, which would be the health
aspect. I hate to g❑ back in time, 2020 when we had COVID and masks and six -feet
distancing. How does that relate? Well, we had scientists -- I don't know if people have
heard of industrial hygienists. They are people that study PPE, personal protective
equipment, including masks. And after me working in a hospital, I was part of that. And
masks do not work. We used respirators. And you can ask any of them. They did not
work. This is not my opinion, This is their opinion. They're research scientists. And
that's what I'd like t❑ bring up today.
There was nothing brought up about health risks tonight. So several studies published
between 2022 and 2024 underscore the health risks posed by 5G technology. Research
contradicts the International Commission on Non -Ionized (sic) Radiation Protection
guidelines demonstrating various harmful biological effects of radiofrequency radiation,
RFR, on humans and environment, including potential cancer risk. Studies reveal 5G's
potential to induce neurologic damage and psychiatric problems, highlighting its effects
on brain development, including the risk of conditions like dementia through
mechanisms, such as impairment of neurocin (ph.).
I can go on, but I just want to conclude by saying 5G appeals moratorium ignored
despite evidence. The first of these published in September 2022 in the journal Reviews
of (sic) Environmental Health, provides a good review -- overview of the hazards that 5G
poses. The authors pointed out that since September 2017, over 400 scientists and
doctors have collectively submitted six appeals to the European Union calling for a
moratorium on the 5G technology. All have been ignored. The September 2021 appeal
included extensive cover letter in which experts argue that EU's reliance on guidelines
by the International Commission on Non -Ionized Radiation Protection places public
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health at risk because the guidelines only considered heating and n❑ other health -
relevant biological effects from RFR.
And my last question is -- to the Mayor and supporters from Council of this is would you
put this -- willing to put your tower 25 feet in front of your house?
CAVANAUGH: This wireless broadband tower item for your consideration tonight
should definitely not be a rushed vote until specific definable measures can be
incorporated into both Sections 16 and 17 for the protection of the residents and ❑ur
property values. And since one councilmember is actually moving out-of-state, perhaps
she should actually recuse herself unless her vote is to table this decision.
This is a complicated issue. I don't fully understand all the complexities, and I'd also bet
money that this council doesn't either at this time. Our P and Z has attempted t❑
understand the total picture and ramifications for the residents, but they believe
changes must be made to both Section 15 and 17 to fully address the issues. It appears
that the best decision this council could make is to table this and send it back to P and Z,
then provide them with access to all the needed documentation in order t❑ make fully
informed recommendations that protect the residents and our property.
The lack of transparency to the community by placing prior discussions in executive
sessions away from the public view is not acceptable. The mixing of terminology over
the past years has added to the confusion for all concerned: the public, the council, the
commissioners, and the staff. Allowing our attorney to withhold pertinent information
and redacting the documents from the reputable expert that was hired supposedly by
the Town yet signed by the attorney is not acceptable. Tossing about the term
preemption to shut down discussions saying we, as a local entity, can't override big
government regulations or put protections in place for residents is not acceptable or
necessarily accurate.
D❑ you remember the discussion of sober houses, which are now classified as
transitional community residences here? Remember how so many of us fought for over
two years to push the Town t❑ implement certain protections for our neighborhoods,
such as reducing the number of occupants in those houses and locations? But our
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attorney told us and the Council again and again we could not place any restrictions to
slow down unlimited proliferation. Big government rules don't allow it. But that wasn't
true, was it? We were able to work within the system to protect residents at a local
level with local regulations and requirements but without banning them.
Why can't the same be done on this issue? Our scenic community should be the ones
who set the guidelines for our local area, and for that to work, P and Z needs full access
t❑ information and expert resources. What parts can go underground, for example?
How will emissions be consistently and objectively measured? Where can these be
placed, et cetera, and other protections?
Transparency during this process should be a priority because this affects all of us who
actually live here. We should have a common goal of protecting residents and property
values first in beautiful Fountain Hills while still working with this industry. Thank you.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Next up, we have Larry Meyers followed by Rob Long (ph.).
MEYERS: Mayor, Council, resident 43 years now. This discussion has been going on for
three years by a lot of experts in the town. There are some in this room who have way
more knowledge on this subject than the combined knowledge of anyone on the dais.
So I'm going to talk about lack of transparency because that's what we have not only
with this issue, but with many issues in this town. And transparency causes residents to
question things.
So certainly, there can be no denying that there's an area of expertise and three years of
work done by residents and your Planning and zoning Commission, and information was
withheld from your own Planning and zoning Commission that the residents paid for.
Government has no money of its own. The money paid to Mr. Campanelli was our
money, and no one in the residential community has seen that, and the Planning and
Zoning hasn't seen it.
Notwithstanding any debatable medical implications with regard to the proliferation of
telecom small -wave towers ❑n some people, I don't believe anyone on this dais wakes
up each day saying, let's make our residents sick. It's much like the cigarette debacle. It
may take 30 years, 40 years t❑ play out. Some people smoke cigarettes all their life and
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live to be 90. Some people smoke cigarettes and end up with lung cancer at 45. S❑ I
don't want to debate that.
What I want to debate is when there's no transparency, my usual thought is, okay, let's
follow the money. So I had a lot of detailed conversations with former Finance Director
Pock. And the Town faces a revenue shortage. There is no question about it. We would
have faced it a lot sooner if we hadn't had 11 million dollars dropped out of the sky by
the fells. So tower leases. Now, that's a revenue stream that I think the Town is so
anxious to get its hands an.
However, the way I see it, if you put them in residential areas, that's a transfer of wealth
because, without any disputable information at all, the data shows that property values,
based on proximity to these towers in right-of-ways of residential property, diminishes
property value from three to 20 percent. So you're, without my consent, going to take
my property value and put it in your coffers to run this town. I would propose another
method. And nobody ever wants to talk about it, but that way, people would vote on it
and you would have some sort of consent. So I would urge you to send us back to
Planning and Zoning, consult all of the experts, make all of the information available to
everyone and come up with something that you can be proud of. Thanks.
LONG: Hello. I'm Rob Long. My wife and I moved here three years ago to escape my
native California. I'm very happy to be here. The last ten years in Carlsbad, I observed
our local council and mayor make major decisions which impacted each and every
resident behind closed doors, following tax -paid commissions and experts, whereas we,
the taxpayers, had no access to even review or comment on these reports as we --
again, we were not permitted to see them. Our representatives and I -- and I use that
word loosely, destroyed our once -beautiful hillside community overlooking the Pacific
Ocean. So here we are. We left it.
In short, I'd just like to say I would like to see more transparency, better transparency,
especially when it involves our health and our property value because it's better
information as to who to support when it comes election time.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Next up, we have Tom Donnelly, followed by Lori Troller.
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DON NFLLY: Hi, there. I've been here for four hours because my wife told me four hours
ago that we were going to talk about towers and SG technology. So I decided I better
come tonight, sort of because she told me t❑ come, and the fact that I went to law
school, and I'm a licensed professional engineer with the State of California in safety and
in quality. I worked ❑n product liability cases where people have been killed for half of
my career.
I came tonight because I'm concerned about the issues and some of what was brought
up, and the fact is that I've been here for eight years and never heard anything about
this subject until something she read from a neighbor concerned about coming here
tonight. And I'm concerned about the issue of safety, and I'm concerned about the laws
that are represented here.
I want you to understand the 3G technology and 4G technology. Those frequencies
come from the Federal Communications, and those frequencies are within the range ❑f
about 80 to 100 megacycles, mega frequencies. When they went to SG, you need four
towers for every one that you had under 3G and 4G. The frequency range goes from
100 to 100 megahertz -- 100,000, I'm sorry, megahertz. That's why there's a great deal
of concern about the biological effects, and in OSHA, they call them the thermal effects
of what they're doing to the body and long-term stands from health. And there's also
signs that we're starting to see that there are signs of cancer. And there's also the
concerns in the hills where we've put them about the wildlife and studying the wildlife
and what it's doing to wildlife.
So I'm very, very concerned about this subject, and I'm concerned because I like this
city. And what I can see is a potential here for going in and putting towers in here that
are going to be the effect of a class action lawsuit of which you can't stand. I just settled
a case against Toyota for 1.3 billion dollars on loss of class action of cars. You can
imagine what a 1.3 billion lawsuit would be to this city.
So I'm just letting you know, as members of this committee, this is a very serious
subject. I've given my card to John and told him I'm happy to help with the issues of the
safety of this community. I'm a little bit bothered at the fact that towers are being
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considered here because they are absolutely -- where I live up -- Golden Eagle, up at the
top where I have a wash right behind my house, and if you start putting towers down
there, there's going to be a class action lawsuit of some very rich people up there, and
it -- and it could come.
So i just wanted -- and I've worked with John and the City people before on other issues,
and they're a great group of people, but I -- and I see that a lot of work has been done
into showing those charts, but I also agree there has been no communication to this city
about doing this. And the -- and the potential impact here is considerable, so I wanted
you to understand the difference in the frequencies between 3G, 4G, and SGs. it is a --
it is really a great deal greater in what the potential damage could be by high -frequency
microwave frequencies.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Thank you, sir. Thank you.
DON NELILY: So you know, I don't want to go on. I would have -- had I known that John
was going to have all this, I would have presented more, but all i can say I'll help on this
subject if you need it.
MAYOR DICKEY. Thank you.
DONNELLY: ❑kay.
TROLLER: (Indiscernible) paying attention. ❑kay. What I handed out to everybody --
sorry I was late -- is a list of the other half of the ordinance that's not in existence. What
John handed you is a lot of work. We need to work with that. This is the other half. It's
not in there. And gee, just the timing is -- there's ❑ne -- there's a word in our -- in what
we have presented tonight, and it's the word insurance. Doesn't even exist in that code,
doesn't come up.
So those towers aren't required to have insurance. So now, again, let me give the
example I've got a tower in my ROW which falls on my driveway, and my child gets hit. I
have to sue. I have to get medical coverage for my child because he got burned or
whatever. Hopefully, you know, not worse. I can't go to -- because ❑f what you guys
are going to say yes to tonight, I can't go to the towers. They're -- they are not
responsible. We don't hold them responsible with this ordinance.
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So I come to you. Town can't get insurance. It doesn't exist. The insurance companies
don't offer that insurance because it's a huge loser. There's so many cases, like he
spoke. So then it comes down to everybody who votes yes. You're going to be
responsible for everybody's house. Five people -- say just five people have issues. And
these are health issues.
You're going t❑ hear April. You're going to hear her voice. She's been sitting in this
room that's filled with EMF. Her voice is affected by -- she's one of these people highly
affected very quickly by this. You put one of these towers next to her house, she's going
to be calling you. I hope you're moving, like, out of the country. So it's not going to --
it's not going to absolve you because a yes is a yes.
I do want to get, really quick, back to what just happened 20 minutes ago. Hannah
raised a point of order, a legitimate point of order. Allen read the law that we wrote,
and I believe this was because Peg, about a year and a half ago, said, I can't -- you can't
give this stuff to me so fast before a meeting. I need more than 24 hours. And I think
that's why we wrote that. I think that's when that was amended. I could be wrong. But
he -- what he read was you can't submit anything inside of 24 hours. But what just
happened is we now have a mayor saying that didn't happen, we're just going to keep
talking about this, I'm running this meeting. He said 24 hours.
This is a legitimate point ❑f order. It needs to be put back to P and Z, delayed until
Decem -- I don't know what it is, but it's not the vote tonight. You can't ignore what just
happened in this room. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we can discuss. We can make a motion. I'm going to close
the hearing and --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: There is one for the last item, but you may go ahead and speak.
MCCORMICK: Good evening. My name is April McCormick. I moved to Fountain Hills in
August of 2021, and shortly thereafter, I got involved with this issue because it does
affect me personally. I've been involved with this issue since 2018 and worked with
every municipality where I've lived ❑n passing a appropriate ordinance to protect
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property values and public health.
So when I got here, I knew exactly who to offer to give advice to this council, and that
was Andrew Campanelli and Scott McCollough. They are the two most -renowned
telecommunication attorneys in the country. They have 60 years of experience
between them, over 7,000 federal cases, and they have won cases on the FCC order,
which your state law -- this state law is a carbon copy of that. They've won in the Ninth
District. And that gives us a blueprint of what is possible. So I offered Andrew and Scott
to meet with staff for free and, of course, was told no.
And instead, what happened is Aaron went and hired the Telecom Law Firm. Well,
ironically, on the website fountainhillssafetech.com, where over 1,000 residents have
visited that site in the last four days, over 4,000 since 2022, he hired the Telecom Law
Firm, and on the -- on the website is a memo from Scott McCollough. Scott Is now
Bobby Kennedy's attorney. He's also the attorney for Children's Health Defense, and
he's won court of appeal cases against the FCC on all of these issues.
Scott is responding to the City of Malibu specifically about what they call the Kramer
memo. Well, Jonathan Kramer is the attorney you all chose to hire, and in Malibu, he
wrote a memo about what they can't do. So the citizens hire Scott. Scott writes a ten -
page rebuttal of all the things you can do based on state law. He finishes the memo by
saying, in summary, the reciting of just industry talking points by the Telecom Law Firm.
You have to wonder what the conflict of interest is here because he's clearly not serving
the community.
And when you look at what his conflicts are, they are so egregious, it's mind-blowing.
Aaron actually even entertained him, and you let him do it. He has a real estate
company where he lists and sells, and brokers property with antennas. He has a leasing
company where if you buy property and you want to put antennas, he'll do all the lease
work for you. He also has a property management company where once you get an
antenna an your property, he'll manage the site for you. It's the most egregious conflict
of interest anyone's ever seen.
So after the petition to get rid of him, you finally hired Campanelli, and you sat on an
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ordinance for a year. I've done so many public records requests trying to get that from
you. All have been denied. I tried to get his billable hours for how much he talked t❑
the Telecom Law Firm and got 100 pages ❑f fully redacted notes from his law office.
Elections matter, and I'm telling you right now, the only way this is ever going to happen
is to get rid of her and her. And Andrew has never been treated so badly by any
municipality in the 30-year career, and I get that. Since moving here, I have never been
treated so badly by the group of people that are your comrades and sat on this side of
the room, two of them laughing hysterically, and you just let them all night long.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm not doing that. And your time is up. I'm sorry. Thank you.
MCCORMICK: You're not doing anything. That's the problem.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we've heard from the public, and now we -- if somebody
would be willing to make a motion, then we can discuss it, amend it, however, you want
to do that, and I'll close the -- pardon me?
MCMAHON: (Indiscernible) make a motion (indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, whatever you want to do. It's up to you.
MCMAHON: I'm going to make a motion. I'm going to make a motion to approve the
ordinance as written.
MAYOR DICKEY: 24-01.
MCMAHON: 24-01. Sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. This is just so we can continue to discuss and amend it.
We have to have a motion so that we can amend it.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: I am going to close the hearing, and now we can discuss. Hannah, I
think you were first.
TOTH: Allen was actually first.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Oh. Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Considering the amount of source documents
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to do some research -- and I'm not an expert on this, and I think there's more that I want
to know about this, and I also want to compare it to the CampanelIi information. I want
to make an alternate motion to continue this until December 17th.
TOTH: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: S❑ I think a motion to continue takes precedence?
ARNSON: It does.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Okay. So we have a motion to continue, until December 17th, this
item. And we can't debate, right?
ARNSON: Mayor, one second. I actually don't know that that's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: This is different from a --
ARNSON: One second.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: ❑ifferent from a --
ARNSON: Because it's different from calling the question.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
ARNSON: Motions t❑ continue. "Motions to continue shall be debatable only as to the
propriety of postponement. Motions to continue to a definite time shall be amendable
and debatable, and they are debatable as to the propriety of postponement only."
MAYOR DICKEY: ❑kay. So basically just the idea of continuing it is the only thing we can
debate?
ARNSON: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we have a motion and a second t❑ continue the item until
December 17th. Roll call?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Nay.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Nay.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH : Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
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FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Nay.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: No. So now we can discuss the actual item, correct?
ARNSON: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So I have a couple -- well, I won't go first. So Hannah.
TOTH: So I have a few statements on this, ❑ne being, of course, that this does not
include 16.2, which was -- the origin ❑f this conversation was broadband, not cellular.
So I know I'm beating a dead horse, but we really should have done that in a pack. Was
it 16.2? 1 think it was.
Second, there was a recommendation by CTIA that's included in our packet. One of the
items was that in the ordinance, Section 17.03(a)($), the provision states, "No sign shall
be allowed on an antenna or tower." However, FCC rules requires that signs may need
to be attached to provide notification or warnings as to RF radiation exposure. This was
part of the recommendations, and I didn't see it in the recommended amendments or --
oh, thank you, John.
WESLEY: Excuse me, Mayor. Yes, Councilmember, we did make that change to that
section.
TOTH: You did. Okay.
WESLEY: S❑ it does require any signage required by law.
TOTH: I missed it. Thank you. Actually, could you point to me where that is? Because I
saw ❑n -- thank you, John.
WESLEY: It might take me just a moment to get there because I'II have to get out into
the ordinance itself. Can't remember exactly where it is.
TOTH: I actually think it's bullet point L that I was looking at, but that would be under
17.04.
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WESLEY: Yeah. They had some of their numbering wrong in that memo, but let's see.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible),
TOTH: I understand. I think it might have been repeated in 17.04 dot -- or point L. I
don't know how I'm supposed to refer to that.
WESLEY: Yes. Councilmember, here it is. On S, if you look on the screen, "No signs
other than those required by law shall be allowed." So --
TOTH: Thank you. Would you mind scrolling down to 04? And then ❑n L. I think we
actually might have had that line in there twice. Is it -- hold ❑n. Let me try and be more
helpful in this. 17.04, General Requirements.
WESLEY: 17.04 is type of applications.
TOTH: L.
WESLEY: 17.03 is the general requirements. So again, if you're looking for CTI --
TOTH: Am I looking at an old ❑rdinance? 17.04(I). It's page 131 in our packet if that's
helpful at all.
WESLEY: No, I don't have it up that way, I'm afraid. No.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: John, I think you're looking at your saved version versus the
version that's in the packet. That's what the councilmember is looking at.
WESLEY: Should be the same version.
TOTH: Is there a difference between what was in ❑ur packet and what's up here?
WESLEY: There shouldn't be.
ARNSON: There shouldn't be.
TOTH: I think I'm -- let me scroll up. Maybe this was an old -- no. Chapter 17, Wireless
Telecommunications Towers and Antennas. It's page 1 -- what did I say? 35?
UNIDENTIFIE❑ SPEAKER: 131.
TOTH: Thank you. 131 of the packet. Item L says, Signs. "No signs shall be allowed on
an antenna or tower." I think -- was my packet given an old version? ❑kay.
UNIDENTIFIE❑ SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
TOTH: I'll scroll up real quick.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
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TOTH: So we have one version that shows amendments where it's stricken or in red or
green, and then we have the one below, which would typically show the adjusted
version ❑f the amendment.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: Aaron?
ARNSON: Mayor, I'd suggest a recess until we figure out what's up because I don't
want -- the transcript's not going to pick up the conversation that's happening.
MAYOR DICKEY: ❑kay. We'll recess, then.
ARNSON: For, like, two minutes.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: ❑kay.
[RECESS]
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. We're ready to get going. So who's going to clarify?
TOTH: Sure. I'll take this one. So the amended, clean version of the ordinance is above
the red line, which is above the -- what would be the current Chapter 17. So that's
where we had some confusion. It's cleared up now. Sorry to John. You can continue
with -- were you explaining something in the first place or no? Okay. Cool. We're good
to go.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Thank you. Any other comments? So I just have kind of a overall
question. This -- what we're looking at tonight, which is Chapter 17, of course, and was
this not -- was this not what you presented t❑ P and Z in pretty -- you know, I think you
changed a few things after some of the conversation. I think that they made some
suggestions, and you put them in this, but isn't this largely what you presented to them
in July?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, yes, it's very similar to what was presented to P and Z
at their July 8th meeting. There were some comments and suggestions that they made
at that time, one ❑r two of which, I think, got added in here. There were a few things
that were in that draft to them that -- as I went back through that kind of didn't make
some sense or whatever and maybe were deleted, but other than a few minor changes,
yes, it's what they saw at that meeting.
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MAYOR DICKEY: 5o this isn't -- this isn't something that nobody's seen. It was on the P
andZ --
WESLEY: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and P and Z discussed it quite thoroughly and added some stuff to it.
While they didn't recommend it, they didn't find fault in it. It just wasn't addressing 16,
correct? Or you know, maybe I shouldn't --
WESLEY: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- ask you it that way. But in other words, it's still a protective piece
of -- the language is still protective, it's just only in Chapter 17, so it does not address
small cell at all. I mean, basically, that's kind of out of this discussion. But the work that
went into that -- there is some public input, there is some Campanelli input, there's staff
input, P and 7, of course, that went into what we're seeing right now. 50 there were
substantive changes, also some reorganization, clarification of existing laws. And again,
it's not just our law. It's federal law, it's state law that we have to take into account
about all of those.
So I guess what I'm saying is this doesn't appear to weaken what we have. It appears to
strengthen what we have. So when someone says if you pass this, you could be doing
something that's more damaging, I -- it seems to me what we're passing is something
that has more restrictions to it. It may not be enough for some people, and it may be in
the wrong place for some people, but there's nothing in this that precludes further
changes in Chapter 16 or further changes in Chapter 17, or us looking into trying t❑ get
more underground fiber. Is there anything in here that precludes further action like
that?
WESLEY: Mayor, no, there's not.
MAYOR DICKEY: There is not. So I guess because I'm just trying to simplify it as much as
I can, this appears to be more protective than what we have in place, and it doesn't stop
us from trying to put more things in other places or to even amend this further
afterwards?
WESLEY: Correct.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Hannah?
TOTH: While I do agree that it -- we're not stopped from amending it further
afterwards, I want to bring up the point that this is not addressing the public's concern
that started this entire process. The original concerns that I was told about had to do
with broadband had to do with Chapter 16.
1 think -- and I'm sorry, John, because I know you've put so many hours into this topic,
but I think, while we're in the weeds and it's fresh on everyone's mind, it is best to deal
with these issues together and deal with them well. Because it is such a complicated
topic, because there is so much legality behind it, it is so important to get this right and
not pass an ordinance that, okay, it might strengthen us in one area, but we're missing a
definition here. We don't have insurance requirements or standards.
With three years of discussing and working on this, if we're going to do it, let's do it
right. I really don't want to bring this back in a year. And maybe it's selfish of me, but I
would really love to stop talking about 5G, to be so honest with all of you. And I'll leave
my points at that, but I'll be a no vote on this or any amendments. I would far rather we
send this back to P and Z, add in 16.2. And if this motion were to fail, that will be the
motion that I recommend.
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. I just want to point out, I think -- not speaking for Planning
and Zoning. They did find fault, and they unanimously, I believe, kicked this up to the
Council. We haven't gotten anywhere ❑n this. How can this council, in good conscience,
not require a permittee to indemnify this town? You know, the minute a tower is
approved near someone's home, the Town is going to have to defend a lawsuit. And if
we're so concerned about lawsuits, there's nothing that addresses that in this
ordinance. The permitting beneficiary should have to indemnify the Town against any
lawsuits. That's not in here. It's clearly not in here.
Likewise, why would the Town not insist on some kind of a bond or something or lien
rights to pay for the removal of an abandoned tower? Who's going to get stuck with
that? The Town? The residents? There's a lot of work that has to be done on this yet.
I -- and I agree with Hannah. I think this needs to go back and have some more tweaks
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to it. I'm not saying we shouldn't do it, but I'll be a no vote as it stands right now. This
town's not indemnified at all, and that's a big issue for me.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Aaron, would you be so kind as to -- because I
know a lot of the conversation tonight was about the health effects of this kind of
technology and review 47 U.S.C. Code 332 and how it pertains to this technology?
ARNSON: Mayor and Council, can I just read the statute?
KALIVIANAKIS: Of course.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
ARNSON: It's short. 47 U.S.C. 332, Subsection (c)(7)[b)(4). "N❑ state or local
government or instrumentality thereof may regulate the placement, construction, and
modification of personal wireless service facilities on the basis of the environmental
effects of radiofrequency emissions to the extent such facilities comply with the
Commission's regulations concerning such emissions."
KALIVIANAKIS: So then are we prohibited by federal law to do what some of the people
have proposed tonight, which is deny this technology?
ARNSON: Yeah, we can't -- we can't outright ban this technology. And it's not wrong.
KALIVIANAKIS: ❑kay.
ARNSON: And it's -- and it's not wrong.
KALIVIANAKIS: ❑kay.
ARNSON: It is not wrong.
KALIVIANAKIS: ❑kay.
ARNSON: So --
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you.
ARNSON: Yeah, it's not.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. And the other thing I would like to say, too, is that, you know,
we've been kind of playing whack -a -mole with this ordinance for a long time now, and it
seems like when we first started this -- and I've got screenshots -- in June 2022, all the
comments were about -- this evening are, "We're talking about SG communications.
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The next advancement ❑f cell phones is being thrust upon us. We have seen the 5G
upgrades and existing cell towers. These sites are now what is called 5G macro towers,
which" -- blah, blah, blah. 5G is my topic.
So we kind of -- we started at one point, and it seems like every time this goes before
the Planning and Zoning Commission or it comes back to Council, we're talking about
other points, and we're expanding int❑ other chapters, and it's just -- it's a whack -a -
mole, and now, all of a sudden, you know, we want to send it back so we can dive into
other chapters.
I certainly agree with the Mayor that if we vote no tonight, all we're doing is restoring
an ordinance that I have discussed extensively with John Wesley and Aaron that was
flawed. The original ❑rdinance. That's what we go back to. And so the ordinance that
has been toiled over by Mr. Campanelli, by the Planning and Zoning Committee, by this
council and all the work that's gone into this collaboratively, is it perfect? No. But
sometimes, the perfect is the enemy of the good. And so we've moved the ball along.
We put in more protections. Like the Mayor said, we can revisit this. We can look at
any chapters. We can look at insurance. We can look at everything else.
You know, I mean, everybody's afraid of this thing falling on their house. Well, what
about the water tower that's next to your house? What about the street sign and the
streetlight, and the bridges that you're crossing? Is everything being indemnified by this
town? There's a lot of dangerous things out there. So yeah, if this thing falls on your
house, you're going to probably end up suing the telecommunications company for
negligence. ❑oes the Town have to get involved in that? No. It's ridiculous. This is the
technology. This is mandated by federal law, by state law.
And all we can do, Aaron -- and you -- again, weigh in on this if you guys doubt me -- is
we can do some placement, we can do some landscaping, we can do some colors and
make the saguaro cactuses and do aesthetic stuff, but we can't -- we can't ban or
overregulate this like everybody is advocating that we're doing. It's against the law. We
have a constitution. We have federal law, We have state law.
An attorney wrote me today, an attorney that has presented before to this council that
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we all know, and he said, Brenda, you know, why are you letting federal government
bully this town around? it's bad for our town, and we should deny it. I've got the email.
He's an attorney, and he's telling me, why are you letting the Constitution, the United
States Code, and the Arizona Revised Statutes beat us up? Because we follow the law,
and we do it lawfully.
The Republicans are so mad at Joe Biden because of the student loan program.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
KALIVIANAKIS: Well, I'm sorry, but I'm going to just finish my thought. That he wants to
relieve student loans, and the Supreme Court says you can't, and then he wants to
relieve -- they can't do it. He's got to -- he's got -- the President's got to follow the law,
the Congress has to follow the law, the legislature has to follow the law, and we have to
follow the law. And that's all I have to say.
TOTH. Mayor --
FRIED EL: So I guess you're volunteering for the first one of these towers to go up in
front of your house. But nobody here tonight has said anything about banning anything,
Councilwoman. Nobody has. I haven't heard anybody, but you use those terms. We're
not talking about Manning anything. We're saying come on in, work under our
ordinance. That's all that --
KALIVIANAKIS: Well, thankfully--
FRiEDEL: --that's all we're --that's all we're doing.
KALIVIANAKIS: -- I don't have one ❑f these towers in front of my house, but I d❑ have an
eight -foot -- large ROT (ph.) sign in front of my house that was placed by somebody.
MAYOR DICKEY: Hannah?
TOTH: While I question the relevance of the mention of the political sign, I also just -- I
know the camera won't show it, but I'll verbalize. Could I get a hand raised if anyone is
in here to ban 5G?
MCMAHON: She's not allowed to (indiscernible).
TOTH: So for the record, no hands are raised. Furthermore, there's no water towers in
Fountain Hills.
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MCMAHON: (Indiscernible). Shut up.
FRIEDEL: You.
MCMAHON: You're such a --
TOTH: And a point of order. Ms. McMahon was not recognized by the Mayor before
telling people to shut up.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: Try to be calm. You are now -- you are recognized, so please go on.
Thank you.
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. I am calm. That's why I'm using my calm voice. There are no
water towers in Fountain Hills, so the relevance of that does not make sense. I also take
issue with the -- with the statements that appear to imply that the people ❑f this town
that have come up here to speak on this issue -- many of whom have been new faces
throughout this process. We had ❑ne gentleman that's an engineer, and Lori, I know,
has spent hours and hours and hours researching this topic. 1 understand that it's a
complicated topic, that there's a lot of information to it, but to talk about people of this
town as if they are simply conspiracy theorists, they want to ignore the Constitution, I'm
not aware of a Constitutional right t❑ build something on someone else's property.
That's what I've got.
FRIEDEL: Mayor --
MAYOR DICKEY: Again, we're not putting anything on anybody's property. I think what
we are forced to allow is some of these to be built in rights -of -way, and there -- I know
that at the last P and Z meeting, it was sort of said in a way that we are not preempted,
but we are. It's -- we are preempted. And right now, the law that we have is not as
protective as this one is. John?
WESLEY: Mayor, thank you. If 1 could comment on a couple of things that I've heard
here this evening. So the concern about a tower being built 20 feet from my house, the
ordinance we're talking about, Chapter 17, for anything other than the small cell in the
right-of-way, by this table, the closest it can be is 200 feet. The tower is 40 to GS feet.
It's got to fall, if it falls, on its property. Yes, we don't have any indemnification or
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Insurance requirements In this section.
But for the small cell towers, which can be in the right-of-way, as you just mentioned
there, which, in theory, could be 20 feet of -- a 20-foot setback from somebody's home,
there is a requirement there for insurance and indemnification for the small cells. That's
in the terms and conditions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: I'd like to actually discuss the ordinance that has been presented to us
and the amendment that has come before us. It should be read so that people at home
and sitting out here know what the amendment is. Also, I'd like to know the thought
process behind the amendments that have been presented. I feel like we could beat up
every damn word of this document and be here until 2 o'clock in the morning. We need
to address the issue at hand. The issue is we were presented with this ordinance. Let's
discuss it, and let's discuss the amendments that were presented, please, and thank
you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Gerry, (indiscernible).
FRIEDEL: John, I just have one question. Every tower that's put up in this town, is there
a lease associated with it?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, I would assume so. Again, we're talking about on
private property. I would assume the tower company gets a lease from the property
owner. That would be part of it.
FRIEDEL: And anything in the right-of-way as well?
WESLEY: Anything in the right-of-way that is coming through the town, and they would
get -- go through Mr. Weldy in Public Works for lease agreements on private property
encroachment agreements in the -- in the (indiscernible).
FRIEDEL: Do we have any financial impact or idea as to what that might be in the way of
dollars or cents?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, we, indeed, do have lease
sites. I do not have those numbers available. I will research them and report back to
the Mayor and Council tomorrow. But yes --
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FRIEDEL: Fair enough.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- (indiscernible) year.
FRIEDEL: Fair enough. Thank you.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: You've just made a good point, though, by asking that because the idea
that we were, inadvertently or directly, made a sales pitch and the Town saw dollar
signs, the conundrum with door number two -- this is from the Planning and Zoning
meeting -- is that those dollar signs, if not managed, are at the expense of the average
citizen from a number ❑f angles, predominantly property values, and health, and that is
not appropriate without us at least having a conversation that it was -- absolutely had
nothing -- you're asking because you're -- you didn't know of anything, and there were
no dollar signs dangled in front of us that made us want to put more towers in.
And as someone that's lived here for 40 -- now almost going ❑n 42 years, who raised her
family here, i find that idea ❑f -- and how much would it be, anyway? But that we would
be encouraging towers because of some lease that we might get for it? I mean, that's
just not -- i don't even want to say a word of what I think it is. It's just plain wrong. And
I'm glad you asked that question because you're proving that we had absolutely n❑ idea
that we were getting offered money.
FRIEDEL: Mayor, I -- that wasn't my intent, but I knew the answer to that question
before I asked it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. Thank you. Brenda, would you like to present your
amendments and, you know, if you want to do them and just -- or, you know, give us
your motivation or your ideas on those?
KALIVIANAKiS: I certainly would. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah, as regarding
17.03(a}j3J(d), I just -- I did want t❑ delete the first sentence. "The choice of design for
installing a new wireless communication facility or the substantial modification of the
existing wireless communication facility shall be chosen to minimize the potential
adverse impacts that the new ❑r expanded facility may or is likely to inflict upon nearby
properties." I view that as word salad, and it's meaningless word puzzle. Essentially,
what 17.03 wants to do is encourage stealth design, such as mono -palms or flagpoles,
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and they should be camouflaged to the poles and antennas. So I just -- I just got rid of
the excess verbiage, which I just though was wiggle words. I think we had already talked
about the sloping when Hannah asked me that question earlier.
TOTH: Before we move on, can I ask a question about that --
KALIVIANAKIS: Of course.
TOTH: -- earlier one? Thank you. This would strike out the language, "Shall be chosen
to minimize the potential adverse impacts that the new or expanded facility may or is
likely to inflict upon nearby properties." I understand it is a long sentence. However,
striking that without changing the wording in the second sentence -- I think that's the
second sentence, Now, it just says, "Stealth design such as -- such as mono -palms or
flagpoles," so including others, "should," not shall, "be utilized to camouflage the pole
and antenna." So I want to throw out there that this is absolutely changing the meaning
of that paragraph. I guess that wasn't really a question, but sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: So change "should" to "shall," Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Well, I mean, again, it says, you know, rather, "Design choice should be
upon the applicant if the design meets the ordinance ❑bjective standards, such as
antenna dimensions," and so it would refer just back to our ordinance. And like I said,
It's superfluous language that is just not necessary. 1 mean, if you want to change
"shall" to "could", I have -- I have --
MAYOR DICKEY: Shall --
KALIVIANAKIS: I still just think we should just strike out that language because it's just
not necessary.
TOTH: I think a further concern is assuming we were to change "should" to "shall," then
it still --''Stealth design such as mono -palms or flagpoles shall be utilized." Now, we're
talking anything that's considered a stealth design. I got to be honest. Some of those
palm trees or the cacti, some look good. A lot don't.
KALIVIANAKIS: Again, I just -- I just don't think it's our duty to do that kind of regulation.
It's -- again, it's all set by our objective ordinance standards that we already have written
into the code, and it's -- again, it's just -- it's just making a person that would want to put
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one of these units in our town subjected to language that they might not even
understand because, quite honestly, I don't even understand it, and I'm reading it right
here.
I mean, we have to make our ordinances user-friendly, and I don't think using all these
superfluous words is user-friendly. I mean, we should try to write these things -- what
do they call them, Aaron? Clear language laws. It should be clear language so
everybody that reads it knows what it means.
MAYOR DICKEY: D❑ you want to make -- do you want to make amendments as you go
along, or would you like to wait until you're -- until you're through?
KALIVIANAKIS: It's really up to what you'd like to do, Ms. Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: I mean, is it easier to do it one by one?
ARNSON: One by one, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. So if you would like to say that you would like to amend
language with what you wrote there.
KALIVIANAKIS: I think I did.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
KALIVIANAKIS: I read the whole thing.
MAYOR DICKEY: So is there a second?
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any further discussion on the amendment? I'm kind of
thinking that I like the protection that's in the language that exists there. Any other
discussion on the amendment?
MCMAHON: I don't think that the --
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I don't think that the language hurts anything. I mean, i really don't. I
don't -- like, you think it doesn't add very much, but I think that the first sentence, you
know, combined with the second one serves the purpose of the design need to
minimize the potential impacts, and then also -- you know, in doing that coupled with
having a stealth design. So I do think that the -- having the two sentences are fine.
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KALIVIANAKIS: Right. Okay. Yeah. I mean, these are all recommendations that were
done by a trade association that looks into these and tries to make reasonable
ordinances that are understandable. You know, if you look at the 17.04(c)(3)(c), you
know, it talks about -- I think that we exceeded our Sections 253(a) and 332 of the
Communications Act by being overbroad af, again, what this council can do.
You know, at this point, I'll just -- I'll withdraw my amendments, and we can just
proceed. I think that my amendments would have made it better, but we've had so few
applications, and maybe we're just doing too much of a deep dive, and there's things
that maybe won't even matter that much. It's just the lawyer in me. Just I wanted to
tighten it up and make it a better ordinance. But you know, if the Council just wants to
move on tonight, I'm ready to do that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Brenda. Any further discussion on what's ahead of us? And
again, the 20-foot -- I had a question about that, but you answered that. The liability
issue is in 16 but not in 17, so there's no insurance in this particular thing. This is not
having us consider more towers because it kind of looked -- I think that's what some of
the public comments sounded like, it was more of a permissive, but it's actually less
permissive.
The mixing of terminology is true, as you pointed out and as a speaker pointed out, and
that is what has led to a lot of the confusion with -- now, you're saying they don't want
to ban 5G, but that was kind of how it started. You know, we had a moratorium on 5G,
and that had to do with the health --
TOTH: Wait --
FRIEDEL: Only while the ordinance was being worked on.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. But I mean, that was -- when this first came up, that was what --
the health part of it was actually the driving force, so -- and then --
TOTH: Madam Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. Yes.
TOTH: I am sorry to interrupt you. However, I don't want words put into the public's or
my mouth. The intention of the moratorium was so that we had time to work on this
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ordinance, not to ban 5G. It was to put a hold so that we could put together something
strong. But the thing with that moratorium is that, again, the intention was for
broadband, which this doesn't cover. So either way, we're not fulfilling the purpose of
that original motion, but I want to be so very clear that that was not due to health. That
was not with the intention of banning 5G.
MAYOR DICKEY: It was not due to health?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
TOTH: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me. We're having a discussion here. So when we first started
this conversation, it was not due to health?
TOTH: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: I disagree with that, but we'll move on. The other thing was the -- oh,
what is the reason to break out voice from data or -- that was one of the first things you
talked about that we don't do. You said there was no -- none of the other ordinances in
any other places have that distinction, and it seems like some people want that, and I
was wondering, what's the advantage of that? Why would anybody want that?
WESLEY: Mayor, Council, I'm not sure how clearly I can define that. From what I have
been hearing, one of the main purposes behind the small cell 5G towers is to transmit
data for your Internet service and so forth in that wireless mode, and that's where there
is concern with the impact from a variety of ways in terms of having that number of
small cell towers up and down our streets.
In the federal law currently -- and I don't know, Aaron, if we know if any acted on the
change, but under federal law, the voice is highly regulated, but there's less regulation
on the broadband, or there has been. There's a effort to make the broadband coverage
just like the voice is. And the FCC approved that change, but then it was taken to court.
And again, Aaron, i don't know if we've seen what's happened from that. So there at
least has been some room to regulate broadband more than voice.
But again, in terms of what I have seen in other ordinances, I've looked at, and what we
got from Mr. Campanelli, there is no distinction. It talked about towers. It talked about
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antennas. Didn't talk about voice versus broadband. And so to make that kind of
distinction in our ordinance, we would have to hire some professional who knew how to
break those out.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. So -- but it is something that's being spoken about
as something else that might have some room for more regulation?
WESLEY: Maybe.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All right. Anything else? Any ❑ther discussion? So we have a
motion and a second t❑ approve -- move to adopt ordinance 24-08 and a second. Roll
call, please.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Nay.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: So I just want to be clear. We're --we've moved to approve it as written
unrelated to the amendments? Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Nay.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. It's better than what we had.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you very much.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Passes four to three.
MAYOR DICKEY: Appreciate it. ❑ur next item is somewhat related. And John, if you
want to explain it, please?
WESLEY: Yes. Mayor and Council, as we were working on Chapter 17 and also, then,
experiencing some developments in town with regard to, primarily, some of the SRP
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transformer boxes and some of the antennas that they were putting up on those so they
could communicate between their different facilities, we recognized that this is a new
type ❑f antenna that was not clearly covered in our code. And so in Chapter 17 that we
just reviewed, we added a provision for what we are calling utility service antennas, and
that -- Chapter 17 covers those antennas that are not placed in the right-of-way, but
many of these that we're dealing with are within the right-of-way, and so we wanted to
address those here in Chapter 16 just like we have the other encroachments and the
small cell.
5o we have the definition here of what we mean by utility service antennas, and here's a
picture of what one of those types of antennas looks like, and again, it's meant -- it's
part of the utility service and communicating to different parts of their overall network.
And so the ordinance that we have before you has a general requirement that if the top
of that antenna is going to be less than six feet above grade, then it just needs to be
designed and painted in a way that it would blend with its surrounding, but if it's any
taller than that, it needs t❑ have some kind of stealth design, such as a saguaro cactus or
otherwise approved by the Public Works director through that encroachment permit
process.
And as far as any review process that goes with that, again, if they're less than six feet
tall, all they need is the encroachment permit. If there are any electrical permits
needed, they would get those, also. If it's taller than six foot, get an encroachment
permit and the building permit to go with that. And so that is this simple ordinance.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any questions for John? Councilman?
FRIEDEL: John, what are those -- are those SRP and other utilities?
WESLEY: SRP is the main one we've been dealing with. Currently, Councilmember,
there are five or six of those antennas currently around town that are in the process of
being changed over to the saguaros.
FRIEDEL: What's the alternative to those antennas for them?
WESLEY: For them, it's people having to come out to sites to flip switches and valves
and d❑ readings and those types of things.
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FRIEDEL: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). You disappeared. Councilman?
SKI LLICORN: Thank you, Madame Mayor. And to answer a little bit of that question is
sometimes, like, water meters, electrical meters, they'll have a way to communicate and
it -- so you don't have meter readers going yard to yard like back in the old days. At my
old house, we used to have -- actually, it's funny because I don't remember them
installing it, but I remember, one day, messing around with my sump pump. We used to
have sump pumps in the Midwest. And I found this meter on the equipment there, and
it would -- it was actually monitoring the amount of water -- wastewater, so -- and this
wasn't like the photos. Like, literally, you had to -- they had to drive by, had to be
within, like -- you know, like, 50 feet or something. They had to drive by your house and
so on to get meter readings.
I wasn't aware, Director, that they were as ugly as the ones you had in the photograph
there, so this is -- I am actually enthused about this ordinance because it's a big
improvement. And even -- it's a small issue. Most of it's on private property, and most
of them are small, but this is correcting -- it's a good example of a problem that could
come here, and we're nipping it in the bud. So thank you very much.
MAYOR DICKEY: Now Councilwoman.
TOTH: Okay. I might have still forgot my question, but I did want to say thank you for
your work on this, John. I honestly -- when -- I don't know if it was when the first one
was put in or just when I noticed it, but a year-ish ago, when I saw ❑ne, I was wondering
what that was and why it was there and why it was so tall and kind of ugly. So just
thank you for your work on this and the preemptive strike.
WESLEY: Yes. Mayor, if I may -- and Councilmember, thank you for that. It was noticed
by, you know, some of our staff, and we've been able to work closely with SRP, and
they've been very agreeable with us in terms of the design and getting these changed
out to something that is more attractive. So we're grateful for SRP being so willing to
work with us on it, too.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman:
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SKILLICORN: Madame Mayor, I think Director just answered my question. I was going
to ask if that ugly one in the photo was going to be legal, nonconforming, but sounds
like they've addressed it?
WESLEY: They've been -- Councilmember, they've been agreeable with us to go
through -- and again, we got five or six, I think, Mr. Weldy, that are currently in process
of being swapped out for something of a stealth design.
SKILLICORN: Yeah. Okay. We got to -- we got to keep on them.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Can I get a motion to --
SKILLICORN: Motion to approve.
ARN50N: Mayor?
TOTH: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please.
ARNSON: Mayor? Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIE❑ SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
ARNSON: Oh, there -- and there are cards.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, sorry about that.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Yes, we have -- we have -- it's okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Two cards?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: The Town actually received 15 speaker cards, 13 were just written
comments, and 13 of those written comments were -- their position was for. And we do
have two speaker cards requesting t❑ speak. The first one is Lori Troller, and the second
one I have here is followed by April McCormick.
TROLLER: Hello. Lori Troller, resident. I got to actually start with a question. So this is
only to make it stealth? That's the only -- that's what's being proposed is to make it
stealth? So is it -- is it not to be able to attach this to existing telecom towers? That's
what I thought I read. I thought the -- I thought they were saying that they were -- the
utility was asking for a combined use of any structure where telecom antennas are. Is
that wrong? That's wrong?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
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TROLLER: Okay, So this is only to make the pictures that you had, the cactus?
MAYOR DICKEY: Lori, if you want to -- do you want to make your statement, and then
maybe he could answer?
TROLLER: I don't know what statement to make because I think I misunderstood what's
going on. If -- here's my statement. If what they're trying to do is take these utility
receivers -- data collectors and put them on something that's about to be prolific in this
town, I personally don't want Big Brother listening to me on my power bills and
everything.
So what they're doing -- so if you're SRP and you want to -- you've got Al now. I see the
power of Al. I write it. I create Al. You should see what we can do with this stuff. So
what -- if we're enabling and putting prolific towers, power that read your electric
meter, I can tell you when your oven -- when you just turned your oven on. I can tell
when you're home. I can tell when you're not home. This is information that goes
overseas, over to whomever. it's not good. It's an invasion of your privacy. That's how,
politically, it's handled.
So if we are talking about making it easier for SRP to put up more antennas and put
them on existing structures, which is what I thought this was, I want to bring that up
because I don't think that's right. So if I have that wrong, and all we're doing is just
putting a cactus over an antenna that they're putting up, I don't have anything to say,
that then I've misunderstood. So that's why I was asking. So if you want to answer.
WELDY: (indiscernible). Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, a little bit of clarification.
What you are looking at tonight is to modify existing radio signals. Let me be clear. The
few five or six that are going up right now, their only purpose is to allow SRP to
communicate with that switch remotely.
Think of it as your electricity being in a big square. If you have a fault in this corner of
the square, the lights go out for several homes. This antenna will allow SRP to make a
switch and then reroute it so all of the applicable homes or the majority of them can be
fed. They do not collect any data whatsoever. They simply allow SRP to electronically
switch one phase to the ❑ther.
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A little bit of additional information in regards to the smart routers, for which these are
not. Those smart routers have been here in large saguaros for about the last 15 years
and, for the majority of them, unnoticed. And so those are different. They actually do
collect the information related to the electrical meters. Two different items here.
TROLLER: I got no issue. Thank you. I needed the clarification. I didn't know. Thank
you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Aaron?
ARNSON: Yeah. Mayor, I don't want to interrupt the apparent lovefest that's now going
on here, but I d❑ have a couple of things from the last item that are relevant to the
discussion of this one, so I want to put those on the record.
With regard to Council approval, either of this item or the last item, a couple of paints
were made by residents about you all being individually liable for your votes tonight.
That is not true. You are absolutely legislatively immune for actions that you take in
your legislative capacity. That's pursuant to state law and federal law. So I want to
make sure that you all know that. No action that you take up here on the dais in your
legislative capacity is going to expose you to it. Anyone can sue anyone for anything.
How many times have I said that sitting up here? But that doesn't mean that you can be
personally held liable, now or in the future. I want to make sure that's known.
The second point that I wanted to make sure that I raised was the way that all these
items ended up coming to be has, unfortunately, really been misconstrued. I think you
all actually do know that. You were in the room from day one when we hired our first
consultant. Every single councilmember up here put his or her stamp of approval on
that. And then same with putting stamp of approval or disapproval on firing that first
consultant, and then the stamp of approval or disapproval on retaining the second
consultant. Those were all actions that were taken at the direction of the Town Council.
The manager signs stuff sometimes. Sometimes department directors sign stuff.
Sometimes, I sign stuff when we retain legal services. It's my job to retain legal services
at the direction of you guys. That's what I did. Pretty tired of hearing my name dragged
through the mud. It's unnecessary and it's wrong because I act at the direction of the
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Council.
The last component of this that's important to recognize is we also -- we're acting at
direction of Council, me, John, Rachael, staff generally, in directing what was released
and what wasn't released. That ordinance, it's privileged. We had a public vote on it.
We talked about any session. a gave you advice and said, do what you want. If you
release it, that's great. You all chose not to by a majority vote.
So please, can we just have the record be clear that this isn't the town attorney acting
independently. I'm not rogue. I'm not doing something on my own volition. I don't
really care about Jonathan Kramer. I don't really care about Andrew Campanella. Don't
know them. Never met them a day in my life other than working here. S❑ I just want to
make you -- make you -- let you all know that that's where I'm at. Hope the public
recognizes that, too, or can, at some point, recognize that.
FRIEDEL: Do we need a motion?
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, okay. I'm sorry?
FRIEDEL: Do we need a motion?
MAYOR DICKEY: I think we had one. Did we have a motion and a second already? Yes,
because Allen made the motion, I think. So could we get a roll call, please?
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH : Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Council member Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Council member Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
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PADGETf-ESPIRITU: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Passes unanimous.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: Thank you, Angela.
PADGETT-ESPIRITU: Sure.
MAYORDICKEY: Council, discussion, direction? You mentioned having that meeting
with -- I don't know if DWR, but at least with the Sanitary ❑istrict probably, right, and
the folks involved there? Was there anything else that came up, then? Future agenda
items? Councilman Skillicorn?
SKILLJCORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I don't know if we need a second or not, but I
would like t❑ entertain a future agenda item to appoint the successor to some very big
shoes that we may not necessarily be able to fill, but the seat we could fill, and we'll see
if we could d❑ that possibly next meeting.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Any other future agenda items? No? ❑kay. Well, now, we're
going to get to our special recognition of our outgoing councilwoman, Sharron. She has
been a long-time community volunteer in several areas before you came to the dais.
You decided to take that additional step to run for Council, and we were all the better
for it.
You were reliably prepared. You were always ready with fact -driven references. And
we'll miss your energy -- I think you heard that from some people -- your intellect, of
course, and your enthusiasm for the Stellar Students -- somebody mentioned that --
your sense of humor, which we can always use for sure, and we appreciate that. Scott,
he had his contribution, too, as -- he was commissioner, an active volunteer, doing all
that stuff up there on the trails, and Make a Difference Day, both of you with the trucks
and getting all the -- everybody getting our tools and getting all our stuff in the truck so
you could haul it off. So Scott will also be missed.
I'm going t❑ be presenting you with -- we have the pin. I wore it so you could see it. So
you can always take it out of the box. And a certificate. But first, I was going to ask if
any counciIpeople have anything t❑ say, and then we'll wrap it up with our Town
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Manager, and then I'll bring you -- I'll come to your seat and just bring those things for
you, so -- because I know you want t❑ be a little low-key about it. So if any
councilpeople, I think -- Councilwoman McMahon?
MCMAHON: Sharron, I'm so excited that we got to work together. I've really enjoyed it.
For the past four years, you have brought a very interesting and honest perspective t❑
the Council. You -- and the town. You have contributed s❑ much. I don't think you even
realize how much you've given this town, and it's moved it forward progressively. You
have some great ideas for the Stellar Students, et cetera, and you are always a positive
factor in all the discussions, so thank you very much.
I really appreciate your thorough research on all the subjects and matters that have
come before Council, and I really will miss your insightful, well -thought-out, honest, and
blatant comments from remarks before the Council. They made a big difference, and
I'm going to miss working with you. And I wish you and Scott the best in your new
endeavors, and I hope you enjoy living in California. So thank you so much.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Well, of course, I want to wish you luck in your next chapter. And despite, you
know, maybe not always seeing eye to eye, you've always been kind and professional,
and I really appreciate that, so thank you. And I'm sorry to see you go a little early, but I
hope that this chapter is everything that you want it to be.
MAYOR ❑ICKEY: (Indiscernible). Gerry?
FIR IEDEL: Thank you for your service to the Town, and good luck in your future
endeavors.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I want to -- Sharron, want t❑ thank you very
much for your humor and your wit. And who's going to wear Converse All -Stars to
meetings? And we're going to -- we're going to miss Scott, too. Who's -- you know, we
need someone to blaze those trails. So you will be missed.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible) Vice Mayor?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Sharron, it was -- yeah, it was an absolute
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honor and pleasure to work with you. I've always admired you. There's been many
times that we have disagreed, but there's many times we've agreed on things, and even
in our disagreements, they were always respectful. We always had vigorous debates on
substantive issues, and we always showed each other respect and dignity, and that's
something that is sorely missing in our country. It's having public servants that can go
back and forth and debate arguments and still maybe -- like Ronald Reagan and Tip
❑'Neill and go out for a beer afterwards and just let the day be done.
So I've appreciated your logical thought process and what you've done for our town and
all the research and everything you've done. I'm sad to see you go, but I'm always very
happy to see somebody that's moving on to a next exciting phase of their life. So
Godspeed and good luck, and I hope the wind is at your sails.
GRZYBOWSKI: Don't even.
GOODWIN: I told her I was going to write an essay, but it is rather late. I have the
privilege of sitting here and sharing this from the Town Manager's seat, but I've also had
a long history with Sharron prior -- long before this.
GRZYBOWSKI: Should I walk out now?
GOODWIN: No.
ARNSON: No.
GOODWIN: As a -- as a Make a Difference ❑ay volunteer, as a volunteer at I can't even
tell you how many numerous events, 4th of Julys, Wacky Wet Wednesdays, all kinds of
good things, and then as well as the commissioner on our CSAC. So I've had the
privilege of working with Sharron in a lot of different ways, but tonight, I want to speak
on behalf of the staff. I have that honor because I do think I speak for more than just
myself.
So as you prepare to leave our community, we want to express our deepest gratitude
for your years of dedicated service. Your contribution as a councilmember, former
commissioner, and active volunteer have left a lasting impact on Fountain Hills. You've
been an advocate for the betterment of our community and have taken the time to
ensure that the varied voices of our residents were heard. You've been a true champion
Page 96 of 97
TOWN of FOUNTAIN HILLS
SEPT£MSER 4, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
for our town, and your commitment and passion will be greatly missed by all who have
had the privilege to work alongside you.
Thank you for all you've done to make our community stronger. We wish you all the
very best in your future endeavors and hope that wherever life takes you, you will carry
a piece of Fountain Hills with you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Now, you have t❑ (indiscernible).
GRZYBOW5K1: I begged the Mayor not to do this. I went to Rachael and tattled, and
that didn't even work. 5o an opportunity presented itself for us to move closer to my
husband's client base. Because we're at the end of our lease, like literally in a couple of
days, it just made sense to d❑ it now.
As you know, you can't be on Council if you don't live in town. I tried to do the call -in
thing, but I figured you all might figure it out. I realize the timing isn't ideal. The fast
four years on Council has been a great learning experience. I've always loved helping
people, so transitioning from volunteer to an elected position was just a natural
transition for me.
Thank you to the residents. Your support over the last four years has been wonderful.
I'd like t❑ especially thank the staff. You guys are fantastic to work with. You're good at
your job, and I truly appreciate each of you. Remember that you are the professional.
You're the one with the experience in your field. Don't let folks like me try to convince
you any other -- of anything else. We are all, sitting on this dais, average citizens
representing the town's voice. My knowledge level is not more than yours simply
because I'm elected to my position. I do still expect really prompt emails if I email you,
though, so just saying now.
But seriously, thank you, guys, for everything. I have thoroughly enjoyed the last four
years, and Rachael, eight, whatever it is. Thank you, guys. I really appreciate it.
MAYOR DICKEY: I know. We're going to adjourn. Here's your certificate. (Indiscernible)
goodies in there (indiscernible). And I'll adjourn, and then we'll go get a picture
(indiscernible). All right. Thank you, everyone. Tough meeting. (Indiscernible). We're
adjourned.
Page 97 of 97
Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting
of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on September 4, 2024, at 9:36 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
Ginny ❑ickeV, Mayor
AT ST AND PREPARED BY:
�"7
Angela ge#t-Espiritu, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the
minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the
Town Hall Council Chambers on the 4 day of September 2024. 1 further certify
that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DAT D this Est Day of October 2024.
Angela Pr g t-Es ' 4trrTown Clerk
NO: