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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2024.1001.TCRM.Minutes TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL October 1, 2024 A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:30 p.m. Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember Allen Skillicorn Staff Present: Deputy Town Manager David Trimble; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town Clerk Angela Padgett-Espiritu TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 1 of 43 Post-Production File Town of Fountain Hills Town Council Meeting Minutes October 1, 2024 Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC * * * * * Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. * * * * * TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 2 of 43 MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Please stand for the pledge and if you'd like to remain standing for the invocation. ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Is Pastor John Koczman here? Yes, for Trinity Lutheran. Hi. KOCZMAN: Yes. I'm Pastor John Koczman from Trinity Lutheran Church here in Fountain Hills on the corner of Palisades and Fountain Hills Boulevard. And in November, it will be three years that I've had the privilege of living here. And I want to say on behalf of myself and the family of Trinity Lutheran Church, thank you, to you for serving and for giving to our community. And we truly do appreciate that. I wanted to share a devotional thought on the subject of wisdom. And where better else to go than to the brother of our -- our Lord Jesus Christ, who in James 3:13 says, "Who is wise and understanding among you? By his good conduct, let him show his works in the meekness of wisdom." I had the privilege of being at my 50-year college reunion. The one thing I learned, of course, is that wisdom is not come from academia. Intellect comes from that place, and I'm thankful for that and celebrated that. But wisdom is a gift from God. So James also said in Chapter 1:5, "If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach. And it will be given to him." That's what I love about God. He gives us that wisdom. But He doesn't give us for our self-gain or purpose. And He gives it so that we can be of service to others. So that we can help a community like ours here at Fountain Hills to live in peace and unity together. Maybe not always unanimity, but unity. And I thank you again for that. And I would ask for the privilege to open now in a word of prayer. Heavenly Father, I thank you for these, our elected officials and leaders. I pray Father that you would bless them with great wisdom tonight, not for the sake of themselves, but for the sake of the community which you've called them to serve. Be a blessing and be present. Be to us that source of wisdom. We ask it in the name of Jesus. Amen. Again, thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 3 of 43 TOWN CLERK: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Here. TOWN CLERK: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Here. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Present. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Here. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Here. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Here. TOWN CLERK: All right. Thank you. And I will read the statement of participation. Anyone wishing to address the Council regarding items listed on the agenda or under the call to the public should fill out a request to comment card, located in the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of that agenda item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into the microphone and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments to three minutes. It is a policy of the mayor and council to not comment on items brought forth under call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the Council at a future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Angela. Tonight we have the pleasure of Dave Trimble. And I don't know if you have a report or not. But he's here for our meeting. TRIMBLE: Thank you, Mayor. No report tonight. Happy to be here pinch-hitting for Rachel. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Apropos metaphor there. Hannah? TOTH: Hi. Well, we had quite a few different events in town. One being, of course, the homecoming game. I'm very sorry to our Falcons that it didn't turn out as we wanted, but it was still wonderful to see everyone there. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 4 of 43 One thing that I want to bring to the attention of the residents is that, you know, last meeting the Council chose to leave our council seat vacant that is currently vacant. And we, unfortunately, now have some attention on our town from Representatives Kolodin and Chaplik, who wrote a letter to say when a vacancy occurred on the Fountain Hills Town Council, it deadlocked with respect to filling the vacancy via vote on September 17th, 2024. The Council has not agendized the filling of the vacancy for October. As a consequence, it does not appear that the Town Council will ever fill this vacancy as it is compelled to do by law, but will simply wait until the winner of the election takes office. A.R.S. Section 9-235, however, states the Council shall fill a vacancy that may occur -- shall fill a vacancy. Accordingly, the Council has no discretion to wait until the voters fill the vacancy. But rather is required to fill the vacancy itself, pending the voters chosen candidate taking office. It's really unfortunate that our Council has devolved to this point, but I felt the need to include it in my report as the community should be aware. FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. We did have a busy session between the last meeting. We had our Oktoberfest here at the -- first time, I think, we've had it at the Community Center and the Centennial Plaza. So I was there working with the Elks Lodge in town serving meals and it was a lot of fun and pretty well attended. We also had the Fountain of Lights ceremony right outside Town Hall here. I want to thank Bart Shea for his contribution. I see you out there in the audience. Thank you for your contribution to the base of that display. I also attended the Aid to Women Shelter. It was a big fundraiser down in Phoenix while I was in between meetings. I also attended the Fountain Hills Leadership Academy where the mayor spoke on know your government. We also had a State of the County by Tom Galvin and that was pretty interesting. He gave us a lot of facts and figures and what's happening in our county. We have a very successful county. They have a very healthy budget, as we found out. And then I went on a couple of business retention development calls with Amanda TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 5 of 43 Jacobs. We went to CrossFit Fountain Hills, which was really cool. If you haven't been there, you got to stop by there. They have quite a workout routine there. And then today we went to ADERO Scottsdale, where we met with David Barnett. There's no owners -- new ownership happening up there. And they're really interested in doing a lot with the town. So we're looking forward to a good partnership with them and working on things in the future to help them and the town. Thank you. MCMAHON: I thought that we -- when we're asked to come up here or asked to speak, it's on statement of participation. And I object your very inappropriate comments. It was nothing to do with your participation. And I -- I don't think it's appropriate for you to take advantage of the situation like that. I'm going to be brief. I also attended the Chamber State of the County. It was excellent to learn how healthy Maricopa County is. I have attended our dementia-friendly committee meeting and we are planning for another successful summit in February. The East -- the Valley Metro Board meeting updated finances. East Valley Partnership infrastructure committee meeting where we talked about the freeways and the additions and the need to vote in Proposition 420 -- 479. The Fountain Hills Women's Club, we had a great Oktoberfest this weekend. It was really, really fun. It was in the new -- new Centennial Circle that worked out really, really well. And it was good to have it inside because it was so hot. And also -- I also attended the Fountain of Lights ceremony and it is a beautiful fountain. It is -- if you haven't been and walked by it yet at night, it is very, very pretty. It's on Avenue on the Fountain just outside Town Hall. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Thank you, everybody, for being here tonight. I noticed we have kind of a light crowd tonight. So I guess baseball playoffs take precedence over town council meetings. I'd like to greet everybody on Cox, Channel 11, You Tube, of course, in person, and livestreaming to our town council meeting tonight, where we discuss the town's business. Thursday, September 19th, I also attended the State of the County Breakfast given by TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 6 of 43 the Maricopa County Supervisor who's currently the chairman -- vice-chairman of the board. He gave a very optimistic report on the state of Maricopa County. It was a wonderful thing to hear, all the great things that they're doing. I won't recount them here because there's -- they're too numerous. But it was a good -- it was a good report. And thank to the Chamber of Commerce for sponsoring that. We also did the Fountain Hills Leadership Academy, Know Your Government, two weeks ago -- but since last council meeting -- where all of our town staff, the mayor, town manager, and all of our staff, gave presentations to the future leaders of our town. The Leadership Academy is a very important component to our town. It's a pipeline to our future leaders, a pipeline to our commissions, our boards, our town council, and possibly the Mayor's Office. And so I support that. This week is going to be the Fort McDowell Yavapai Nation tour, I helped put that one together. And I will be attending that session with the class this week. Again, Wednesday, September 25th, we did have the Fountain of Lights ceremony. Thanks once again, to Brian Schrader, the artist, for doing a great job and adding such a beautiful addition to our town. Like Gerry said, I want to thank Bart Shea for his generous -- one more generous contribution to our town. That's what it's all about. And we really appreciate that kind of community (indiscernible). The 26th, I had the pleasure -- since the mayor was busy -- to conduct the state -- go to the Aesthetic Elegance and Wellness and do the ribbon cutting ceremony. It's on Avenue of the Fountains. And it's kind of a beauty boutique, a lot of the procedures they do there, it's developing a more beautiful you on the inside and out. And so if you haven't stopped by, talked -- go there, talk to Ellie, she's a wonderful person. I did go on the 26th -- the same day -- after the ribbon cutting, to the school board forum that was at the Chamber of Commerce too. There, we got to hear from the candidates that are running. We are extremely fortunate in this town to have such a great talent pool for our school board. Dr. Rich Rutkowski, Dr. Anne Evans, and Kim Duckworth, who's a concerned mom that has children in the school district, all shared TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 7 of 43 their thoughts about the school district. And those are three winners, we can't go wrong. So I'm really glad people are stepping up and volunteering for school board. I went to the Oktoberfest ceremony, which was the 27th and the 28th. And we tapped the keg, played a lot of music, ate good food, and then recreated. It was a wonderful time. Normally it's held down at the lake and it kind of services, more Scottsdale, Mesa, Gilbert, we scaled it down this year. It was at the Community Center in the pavilion -- the Centennial Pavilion. And I kind of liked it better. It was more intimate. It was pretty much town -- Fountain Hills resident centric, which I really appreciated. And it was charming. And so that was good. I hope we keep doing it there. Lastly, as everyone knows I play for the Desert Valley Winds Band. And we have two gigs coming up. On December 7th, we're going to have a Pearl Harbor Remembrance, it's going to be at the Community Center. I hope everyone can come out and join us. We're going to play music to remember the day that we lost so many brave souls. And then our band was also selected to play at Munch and Music this Spring. So that date's to be determined but I talked to the organizer yesterday and that's a done deal. So anyway, that's my report. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Actually, I just want to point out, if anyone missed the Oktoberfest, this was last weekend, there's another one going on at Desert Canyon Golf Club the 19th and 20th of this month. And there's plenty of events coming up, obviously, this is the season that we treasure here when it's not nicer weather. So that's all I have for tonight. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Yeah, everybody is talking about the weather. But I think the Oktoberfest was fun and kind of authentic under the -- under the tent like that. Leadership Town Hall Day was great. Everybody had such a varied and impressive background. The new leadership class VIII went to most of the events everybody was talking about. I was able to do the ballet welcome. And what I like about that is then I can do kind of what you were saying about all the -- all the events coming. So I could do this -- there was a lot of people there. So I could sort of do a commercial for Fountain Hills events. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 8 of 43 I went to the MAG Regional Council, which they have 25 years of the Domestic Violence Council -- Awareness Council -- and Gerry's going to make that proclamation. I didn't realize it was 25 whole years. They also did a first things first childcare focus on working parents and what they're trying to do in the state there. AZMAG so azmag.org, is a really comprehensive -- it's the MAG website -- and you can go to the meetings and then they have all the presentations. Specifically was about air quality, which was something we were talking about getting downgraded, unfortunately. So the efforts that they're putting forth to try to mitigate that, because outcomes of getting a downgrade -- it wasn't just ozone, but also particulates will affect, you know, the chip factories and all of the economic development that we're seeing in Chandler and some of these other big cities. So it's important for us to try to get our arms around that. I have several proclamations but I'm going to mention -- I don't have a proclamation for it -- but that October is breast cancer awareness month. I also want to mention that starting tomorrow at sundown is Rosh Hashanah, which is the Jewish New Year. You can find all the information. You're invited to an event there, it's jewishfountainhills.com. And then of course want to mention that our thoughts are with all those that are affected by the devastation happening today and also in the past year and more. And then, like I said, we'll do the proclamation. I'm going to go down there, I'll present. We have Arts and Humanities Month. We have Community Planning Month, Fire Prevention Week, and then Gerry will do the Domestic Violence Awareness Month -- October, so. Barb, you're up. Barb Hansen from the theater. I'm going to start with Arts and Humanities. So whereas the nation's 120,000 nonprofit arts organizations, the National Endowment for the Arts, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the nation's 4,500 local arts agencies and communities across the country and the Arts and Humanities Councils of the 50 State and the 6 U.S. -- this is a mouthful -- U.S. jurisdictionals and districts, have TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 9 of 43 regularly issued official proclamations on an annual basis designating October as National Arts and Humanities Month. And whereas cities and states have celebrated the value and importance of culture in the lives of Americans and the health of thriving communities during National Arts and Humanities Month for nearly 30 years. And whereas the humanities help diverse communities across the United States explore their history and culture and the arts and humanities embody much of the accumulated wisdom, intellect -- we just were talking about that, right -- and imagination of humankind, enhance the enrichment and the lives of Americans and play a unique role, our families, communities, and country. And whereas the nation's arts and culture sector, which includes nonprofit, commercial, and education is an 877-billion-dollar industry that supports 4.6 million jobs representing 4.2 percent of the nation's economy, a larger share of GDP than sectors such as agriculture, transportation, and utilities, and boasts a 33-billion-dollar international trade surplus. And whereas the nonprofits arts industry alone generates 27 billion dollars in government revenue, 166 billion in economic activity, annually, including spending by attendees to arts events of $31 per person per event, beyond the cost of admission on items such as meals, parking, and lodging, making the arts a vital income source for local businesses. So therefore, I, Ginny Dickey, Mayor of the town, do hereby proclaim the month of October 2024 as National Arts and Humanities Month and call upon our community members to celebrate and promote the arts and culture in our nation to specifically encourage greater participation in the arts and humanities in cities and towns. So there we go. And you have to say something. Okay? HANSEN: On behalf of Val Stasik, President of the Board, of which I am a member -- for many years -- we're very appreciative. And I think our town is so lucky to have what we have as far as the arts, particularly our wonderful theater. MAYOR DICKEY: I agree with that. HANSEN: Thank you very much. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. HANSEN: Thank you. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 10 of 43 MAYOR DICKEY: Hold on, you got to get a picture. Our next one is -- oh, shoot -- okay, this is the community planning month. And I think Farhad is coming up to get this one. Thank you. You're wearing your purple. That's good. You get the honors there and I'll read it. So whereas change is constant and affects all cities, town, suburbs, counties, boroughs, townships, rural areas and other places, and whereas community planning can help manage this change in a way that provides better choices for how people work and live. And whereas community planning provides an opportunity for all residents to be meaningfully involved in making choices that determine the future of their community. And whereas the full benefits of planning requires public officials and citizens who understand, support, and require excellence in planning and plan implementation, whereas the month of October is designated as National Community Planning month throughout the U.S. and its territories. And the American Planning Association endorses National Community Planning Month as an opportunity to publicly recognize a participation and dedication of the members of planning, citizen planners, and commissions who have contributed their time and expertise to the improvement of the town. And we recognize that many valuable contributions made by the professional community and regional planners of the town of Fountain Hills and extend our heartfelt thanks for the continued commitment to public service by these professionals. Therefore, I, Ginny Dickey, Mayor of the town of Fountain , in conjunction with the celebration of National Community Planning Month, hereby do proclaim the month of October as Community Planning Month. Thank you. Okay. You going to say a few words? TAVASSOLI: Yep. MAYOR DICKEY: All right. TAVASSOLI: Well, thank you, Madam Mayor. I just have a few words here to share. So as we gather to celebrate Community Planning Month, we recognize the vital role that planning plays in shaping the future of our communities. Planning is not just about TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 11 of 43 zoning laws or building regulations. It's about envisioning a better future. It's about ensuring that our neighborhoods are vibrant, safe, and resilient. From economic development and transportation to housing and protection of our most treasured natural resources, planning is at the forefront of our -- of addressing the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead. This year, as we continue to navigate the changes brought about by continuous growth, the importance of thoughtful and comprehensive planning has never been more evident. Let us commit to supporting and engaging in the planning process. Together, we can create communities that reflect our shared values and aspirations. Thank you and happy Community Planning Month. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Clayton (ph.). All right. Okay. Last one for this spot is Fire Prevention Week. And that'll be Chief Ott. Whereas Fountain Hills is committed to ensuring the safety and security of all those living in and visiting our town, fire is a serious public safety concern, both locally and nationally. And home is where people are at greatest risk from fire. Home fires killed more than 2,700 people in the United States in 2022 and fire departments responded to 360,000 home fires. Whereas roughly three out of five fire deaths happen in homes with either no smoke alarm or with no working smoke alarms, which cuts the risk of dying in half. Whereas smoke alarms alert you to danger in the event of fire, in which you may have as little as two minutes to escape. The residents should install smoke alarms in every sleeping room, outside each separate sleeping area, and on every level of the home. And residents should make sure their smoke alarms meet the needs of all their family members, including those with sensory or physical disabilities and should test smoke test alarms at least once a month. And whereas residents who have planned and practiced a home fire escape are more likely to survive and whereas first responders are dedicated to reducing the occurrence of fires and injuries through prevention and protection education. And residents are responsive and able to take steps to increase their safety. And whereas the 2024 Fire Prevention Week theme smoke alarms, make them work for TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 12 of 43 you, serves to remind us of the importance of having working alarms in the home. Therefore, I, Ginny Dickey, Mayor, do hereby proclaim October 6th through 12, 2024, as Fire Prevention Week, throughout the town and urge all to make sure their homes have smoke alarms and to support the many public safety activities and efforts of Fountain Hills Fire and Emergency Services. OTT: Thanks for this. It has been quite a few years that we've been doing this here. And I did start my career in fire prevention a long time ago. And sadly, the stats don't really change that much. We're progressing, we're doing things, we're requiring fire sprinklers. But in the areas that are really dependent on smoke alarms to -- to save people's lives, the stats haven't really changed. I can pull up an article probably once a week where somebody has died in a fire because the smoke alarms didn't work. So maybe at some point, we'll get past that and be able to not have such high numbers, but. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We appreciate what you do, of course. Thank you, Chief. FRIEDEL: So for those that don't know, I serve on the Regional Domestic Violence Council for -- for Fountain Hills as their representative. Just a couple of notes about domestic violence. We saw a big increase during the COVID years and those numbers really haven't gone down because there's been an influx of population here in Maricopa County. So the numbers are still rising. The town takes it seriously. We have a voucher program that we have set up for anybody that's in a situation like that and they need to have a place to go to. And also, on Wednesday nights in October, the town will be having the fountain turn purple and also cloak the Town Hall in purple lighting, as well. So with that, I'll read this proclamation. And then, Bob, if you want to get a picture of the Mayor and I, that would be great. Okay. Proclamation for Domestic Violence Awareness Month. Whereas home should be a place of warmth, unconditional love, tranquility, and security, and whereas for most of us, home and family can indeed be counted among our greatest blessings. And whereas tragedy for many Americans, these blessings are -- these are blessings that are tarnished by violence and fear, and whereas women, men, young children, and the TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 13 of 43 elderly are all counted among victims of domestic violence. And whereas domestic violence is a major contributor to homelessness, particularly among women and children, and whereas physical injury and deaths occur, and emotional scars are often permanent and whereas law enforcement officials, shelters, hotline services, healthcare providers, the clergy, and concerned citizens are helping in the effort to end domestic violence and whereas we must recognize the compassion and dedication of all these volunteers and professionals, applaud their efforts and increase public understanding of this important problem. Now therefore, I, Ginny Dickey, Mayor of the Town of Fountain Hills, Arizona, do hereby proclaim the month of October as Domestic Violence Awareness Month in Fountain Hills and urge all citizens to observe this month by becoming aware of the tragedy of domestic violence and supporting our community efforts in working towards its end. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Good job. Thanks. We appreciate you. You know, these proclamations -- we get requests and we like to honor them when we can. And a lot of times we'll get folks who want to come and get them. But we're happy to do them even if someone can't come. So thank you. Next, we have a presentation from our Chief Financial Officer, Paul Soldinger. And the floor is yours. SOLDINGER: Great. Excuse me. Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, and councilmembers. Tonight, I'll just be doing a brief presentation just to give you information on our fiscal year 2024, quarter four-, and full-year revenues. Most of the presentation will be positive. But there are some headwinds to consider for this current fiscal year that I'll discuss in depth. So our total net taxable activity, which is basically just all of the TPT filers filing their TPT sales tax returns to the State of Arizona through ADOR, that amount for fiscal year 2024 for the fourth quarter was 194 million. It was actually a decrease from the same period from the prior year, but that year that quarter had a bit of high activity that was uncommon. So it really was a strong quarter because if you go back two years, it was still a $20.4 million increase from that two-year ago period. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 14 of 43 And just real briefly, about our total TPT collections. Our TPT -- our local sales taxes -- just for everyone's information -- if you don't know, it's our largest source of revenue as a town. It's about 55 percent of our total revenues per year. The fourth quarter local sales tax collections came at -- came in at 5.39 million, which was $1.2 million more than projected. Also, fourth quarter overall collections were $278,000 more than the prior year fourth quarter, an increase of 5.4 percent. You'll see at the bottom of your screen that our collections actually slightly decreased from the prior fiscal year, but like I mentioned, there was some large construction activity on fiscal year 2023 that kind of accounted for that increase in the prior year. Overall, fiscal year 2024 was a strong year of local sales tax revenues that stayed consistent after a large increase two years ago. If you see on your screen, from fiscal year '22 to '23, it was about a 17 percent increase in those tax revenues two years prior. So it's good to see that they're stable -- staying consistent in fiscal year 2024. This bar graph on your screen breaks down that total revenue of 20.5 million by category. So as you can see, there's different categories, construction, utilities, retail, restaurants and bars, real estate services and miscellaneous. Just some things to note. Our construction revenues have shown resilient growth over the past two fiscal years. As you can see on your screen, it was right around $2 million a year, is what we were bringing in. But the last two years, we were bringing in closer to three -- three to three and a half million dollars. So there has been a substantial increase in construction activity in our town. Utilities and retail have kind of consistently grown. But restaurants and services have started to show a little bit of contraction in fiscal year 2024. Those revenues have gone down a bit. And I'll discuss those further in my presentation. Real estate showed continued growth as well, but that is the category where we're going to lose significant amount of that revenue starting in January, in just a few months. We're losing a little bit more than half of that revenue every fiscal year, so I'll talk about that, as well. And please stop me if you have any questions as we go along. Retail sales, the town's fourth quarter retail sales collections came in at 2.78 million, TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 15 of 43 which was $190,000 more than projected. Also fourth quarter overall collections were $24,000 more than the prior year, fourth quarter. You'll see at the bottom of your screen that our retail collections increased by 1.8 percent from the prior year. While it's positive to see growth, like I mentioned, there are some headwinds within that amount to consider in this category which I'll break down on the next few slides. So when we look at retail sales taxes, if we take out the food sales, we see a little bit of a different picture. There was still -- as you see on the bottom of your screen -- there was still a 1 percent increase for the full fiscal year. And the town collected $8.5 million for that full year compared to the previous year of $8.4 million. But if you get down a little bit more into the nitty gritty and you consider kind of the micro -- or the micro- economics where the differences within the certain categories within that amount. There's also a remote sellers category. And you can see at the bottom of your screen, our remote sellers sales tax has gone up quite a bit, also 14 percent. So that's really the crux of the increases of our retail sales increases. If you take out that and the food tax, our actual in-town retail sales taxes have slightly dipped. So this may -- MAYOR DICKEY: Paul. Paul. SOLDINGER: Oh, yes. MAYOR DICKEY: What's the purpose of removing those things -- those items -- as far as, you know, what is the meaning of that? SOLDINGER: I actually got a request from a local businessperson to break that out. And they thought it might be interesting information. And I thought it would be helpful to see that. Because when I looked at it myself, you know, it kind of did tell the story that there are more people spending money online, there's a little bit less people spending money in our town. So it's important, I think, for Council and Mayor to know, in this presentation. Thank you for the question. So as we talked about already, construction sales tax has been resilient these past two fiscal years. As you can see, the town collected $782,000 in the fourth quarter of fiscal TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 16 of 43 year 2024, which was $412,000 more than projected, and an increase of $224,000 with the same period in the prior year. But please keep in mind, as I mentioned, there were -- as you see on the screen -- there was an audit collection fiscal year '23. That was one of the large taxable activities that happened within construction. We also had another large taxable transaction, fiscal year '23. So just keep that in mind that that is a bit skewed. And fiscal year '24, while not quite as high, it went down by seven percent compared to fiscal year '23, it was still very strong, very resilient, as far as compared to the prior years before that. MAYOR DICKEY: How often do we do audits? SOLDINGER: Yeah. So that's a great question, Mayor and Council. We contract our sales tax auditor services. So we -- we pay a monthly fee to -- over 15 years to a company that had significant experience working for the Arizona Department of Revenue, conducting sales tax audits. So they do audits on an ongoing basis. The town's really, actually, pretty hands-off. It's them evaluating, doing risk assessments. They do request information from the town at times about business license information and things of that nature, so they can compare to the revenues coming in. But they're the ones conducting the sales tax audits and they work through the Arizona Department of Revenue to complete those audits. MAYOR DICKEY: And then so this spike, how often will we expect that to happen? SOLDINGER: Mayor, Council, we get a few sales tax decision -- sales tax audit decisions -- per year. This was a larger one than most. Some of them can -- I mean, they're random -- they could be a lot smaller. So it just depends on the year. And that's all confidential taxpayer information that I can't release. Utilities and communications, it's pretty consistent. You'll see that it's risen a bit above projections. We collected $355,000 in the fourth quarter of the last year, which is about 57,000 more than projected. Real estate, you'll also see the real estate tax collections have shown steady increases above projections, but this is the category where the town will be losing a significant revenue stream starting in January in just a few months, which I'll go into on the next TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 17 of 43 slide. Specifically because of the State's recent elimination of the long-term residential rental sales taxes, the town will no longer receive that revenue, which is more than half of this category, in a few months. For fiscal year 2024, the town collected about $1.35 million in this category, increase of 7.4 percent from the prior -- prior year. So I just, you know, we talked about it during the budget season. We talked about how much we may be losing. I want to kind of provide you the information on the actual revenues we received the last three fiscal years in this category. So within the rental category, we've collected between 540 to 769,000 dollars per year of this revenue, which we'll no longer receive. We've already considered that in our fiscal year 2025 budget that we're in now and we'll also consider that in our fiscal year 2026 budget. But I thought it'd be important to just highlight this information for you. Almost done. Restaurants and bars, I think it's important just to see this information, that our restaurants and bars in town, our sales tax revenues have gone down. Fiscal year 2024 was a decrease of 4.3 percent compared to the prior year. So I don't have all the statistics in front of me at this time, but essentially there -- this could be an indication of a slowing economy, people eating out less at our restaurants. It could be related to restaurant closures -- I'm just speculating at this point on that. But something to keep in mind. People are eating out less within our town. And lastly, for sales taxes, our services category, it's also showing headwinds. Although the town -- you'll see that big spike towards the right of your graph. We had a big month a couple months ago where we brough in a lot -- a substantial amount of sales tax revenue in this category. The town actually received less revenues in this category compared to the prior year. It went down by 3.2 percent. So this category is basically hotel, short-term rentals, golf, leisure type activities. So it could be another indication of a possibly slowing economy, people spending less money on -- on leisure type activities. And that's all I have for sales tax. Any questions before I finish on state shared revenues? SKILLICORN: CFO donor. I'm just kind of curious or, you know, this is a little bit TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 18 of 43 conflicting stuff. Obviously, we're doing very well with the Wayfarer Collection. But I'm actually kind of surprised -- I would have thought -- because with inflation, prices are higher and since we're paying -- or you know, sales tax is a percentage of what people pay at the stores, it does the people are, you know, spending or buying less at the stores. I mean, if you buy a pair of socks a year ago and you only paid a certain percentage on that. And then now the socks are more money and you're paying that same percentage, you know, we're going to collect more sales tax. But they're obviously buying fewer pairs of socks. But also it seems like STR, you know, short-term rentals, you know, there's a reduction even though now we -- we can collect that. But that's still -- that industry has taken a -- pretty much a dive right now. So it is interesting seeing that conflicting information. I don't know if there's -- if there's any other projections on some of these where they're going to go or if it's just, you know, we're going to kind of wait and see. SOLDINGER: Yeah, Mayor, Councilmember Skillicorn, that's a good question. So every -- around December to January, that's part of my responsibility is doing the projections of revenues for the next fiscal year. And so that will be done. I provide that to the town manager and then we discuss it during the budget sessions. So I'll be sure to highlight some of those projections during that time, probably in the February to March timeframe of next year. All right. Just real quick, state-shared revenues, these always -- not always, but at least since the time I've been here, they come in pretty consistently based on projections. Our state-shared revenue for sales tax is they've come in a little bit higher than projections at 921,000 for -- this is for the fourth quarter of last year. State-shared revenues for income taxes -- also known as urban revenue sharing -- that we collected 1.58 million compared to projections of 1.6 million. HURF revenues actually came in a little higher than projected at 505,000 compared to 462,00 projected. And vehicle license taxes came in at 348,000, a little bit higher than projected. And with that, are there any other questions? MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 19 of 43 SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. (Indiscernible). I don't know if we could bring up the last couple slides. Curious about the state-shared revenues. You know, currently there's a 1487 investigation which could actually direct the treasurer to withhold our state-shared revenues. Is that, you know, just income tax money or is that sales tax and does it also include HURF? You know, what does that specifically add up to? SOLDINGER: So Mayor, Councilmember Skillicorn, I -- you know, for that specific instance, I'm not 100 percent sure which -- which state-shared revenues they would consider withholding. But what I've seen in the past is they -- they usually look at the urban revenue sharing, which is that second -- that second one on the right right there. And so right now, we're receiving about $5.1 million this fiscal year of that revenues. But for the specific incidence that you're mentioning, I'd have to get back to you on that. SKILLICORN: Actually -- and yeah, could you include the rest of the Council? SOLDINGER: Yes. SKILLICORN: Appreciate that. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Any other questions or comments. Aaron, do you know is it -- does it affect all state-shared revenue? ARNSON: I don't know. That's something -- MAYOR DICKEY: I think it does. ARNSON: -- we need to -- yeah, we were just talking about that over here. I don't know the answer to that question. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. ARNSON: But I can certainly work with Paul to get back to you on it. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. ARNSON: Yeah. I know, right? I think it would, but. MAYOR DICKEY: And was the flat tax in effect all last year, as well, or just this year? SOLDINGER: Yeah. So Mayor, Council, it went into effect last year, but the -- that -- that state-shared revenue is kind of odd. It's kind of a two-year lag because they based it on income tax revenues that the state collected two years prior. So last year we kind of TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 20 of 43 had a temporary increase. And this year we're seeing a decrease going back to almost more steady levels. And we're going to see another projected decrease next year before it starts to -- the State projects it to start stabilizing and starting to go back up, as well. MAYOR DICKEY: And it's stabilizing because there's more, you know, the percentage is staying the same. So I was reading something about the flat tax that once -- it's only 2.5 percent, right, so 70 percent of the -- of that went -- of the benefit went to households above 200,000. But I wasn't sure what that meant for cities. It seems like it just is going to go lower. And if it does go higher, it's just because of an automatic of the base amount, but not helpful as far as the percentage. SOLDINGER: Yeah, Mayor, Council. Basically the State projects it to start increasing because after the effects fully go into place, you know, how the flat tax brough tax revenues down, they're projecting that people -- basically, people are going to -- and corporations are going to start making more money with inflation and everything else. And so then they're going to start seeing an increase after all the effects of the implementation go into effect. MAYOR DICKEY: And just to reiterate, the loss of the likely more than 700,000 -- because that was going up because rents are going up -- so the -- SOLDINGER: Um-hum. MAYOR DICKEY: -- amount was pretty high, we -- we took that into consideration of losing half of that. And then next fiscal year, we'll lose it all? SOLDINGER: Mayor and councilmembers, yes. We're going to consider that we're losing the rest of that. We considered half of it for this fiscal year. We're going to consider it all gone for next fiscal year. We'll also consider the final projections for the decrease in urban revenue sharing, which is right now, about $500,000 more that the town will probably be projected to -- to lose. MAYOR DICKEY: That's a blow. Thank you. Any other questions or comments? Thank you, sir. The next item is call to the public. Do we have speaker cards? TOWN CLERK: Yes, Mayor, we do. And we also -- you'll have -- as part of your packet, TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 21 of 43 you will find some online comments that the Town has received. So first up, will be Larry Meyers. And then second will be -- to speak -- will be Blake -- I'm not for sure how to pronounce your last name -- is it Janell (ph.) or Jakel? JAKEL: Jakel. TOWN CLERK: Thank you. Noted. JAKEL: It's spelled (indiscernible). TOWN CLERK: Noted. All right. Thank you. MEYERS: Mayor, Council. Larry Meyers, resident 43 years. I'd like to take this opportunity to publicly apologize to Ms. Earle -- Councilwoman-elect Ms. Earle, for my failure to appear at the last council meeting to express my opinion as one of the 4,226 voters who selected Ms. Earle, that should have been rightfully seated early, no pun intended, in juxtaposition to the 60-some odd comment cards rounded up by certain members of the Council and their clubs, opposed to Ms. Earle's early seating. But then as I watched, I and 4,226 voters were lectured about left and right, thumbs on the scale, nonpartisanship, serving the people, on and on, mostly pompous bologna, the same lecturer then takes to the airwaves to spew an endorsement in the upcoming election in the context of political parties, while at the same time preaching nonpartisanship and also dissing the political PAC that helped it get elected, which is essentially the same 4,226 voters and then some, all residents, all to be served. Curious. Well, I for one, am glad there is no longer any mystery. Throw open the window, let the fresh air in, a modicum of transparency is returned to this town government and I can only attribute this to a virus that is known as rot-derangement syndrome. Others in Fountain Hills have come down with this virus. As with COVID, masks will not help the afflicted stay safe. Rot-derangement syndrome may or may not be deadly, also, as with COVID. Only time will tell and will reveal the final mortality rate. Thank you for the time. JAKEL: Hello. My name is Blake Jakel. I'm a new town resident. I bought up in North Heights a year ago June. I'm here today, the topic sentence would just be, I think the TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 22 of 43 town, the community members, the people who police it, deserve a tool that would be a city ordinance violation for a dog off-leash. We -- currently, we don't have one. We have one that is a misdemeanor ticket for a dog at large. That's one that is usually reserved for when an owner isn't present. It's meant for, like, somebody who lets their dog roam the neighborhood unattended. I, in August, had an issue up in North Heights where a couple of cops were waiting for me at 5:30 in the morning. I have never had a run-in with cops here in this town. They said they were told to go there by their manager to look for a guy with a scooter with a dog that runs next to it, as a report of a dog at large. That was me. About 5:30 in the morning they stopped me. My dog sits by the scooter. I go talk to them. They issue me -- or they said hey, hey, sorry about this, but you know, we got to call our supervisor. He said give us a call if we run into you. I said, well, hey, we're on Sierra Madre, that's the only busy street over here. I was like, do you mind if we just do this at my house over at Elena? They said yeah, no problem. So they just let my dog run next to me on my scooter back to my house, about another mile, right? We get back. The cop comes out of his SUV. He gets off the phone, he look at me and he says, hey, man, I'm really sorry about this. He goes, your dog's a sweetheart, he's like, she's great, no problem. He goes, but my supervisor says I have to give you a ticket. I said, hey, no worries, dog off-leash, you know, I must be in town limits, it's probably a city ordinance ticket. He's like, yeah, no -- no worries or whatever. He's like, I'm really sorry about this. Unfortunately, you know, back in my day, 20 years ago, I've gotten a couple misdemeanor tickets for underage drinking. No cop has ever let me finish my beer, I will say that. But so anyway, I look at the ticket, I realize it's a misdemeanor ticket. I was like, it's the first time ever talking to a Fountain Hills cop -- super nice guy, called my dog a sweetheart, very reasonable, everything was great. There was two cops there. And I said -- I said, don't worry about it. So I get inside and I realize it's a misdemeanor ticket, it's not an ordinance violation. So I have to go to an arraignment and then I have to go in after I get arraigned again, to talk TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 23 of 43 to a town prosecutor for a misdemeanor, for a dog off-leash, right? And all along the way, I thought, well, maybe I'll just go to talk to the supervisor and see what the real deal here is, it's a small town, maybe it's just sending a message, or whatever. Go in and talk to the night shift supervisor. He wasn't the one on duty. All the cops thought it was an ordinance violation. They didn't realize it was a -- it was a misdemeanor level ticket. I said, I promise you -- they said, well -- the supervisor said, I'll call you the next day, let me talk to the prosecutor. The prosecutor told him, no, he's absolutely right, we only have a misdemeanor ticket for you guys to offer. That's what happened. So again, the topic sentence is, I do believe we deserve a city ordinance dog off-leash ticket. TOWN CLERK: Okay. Next we have Crystal Cavanaugh and to follow, Bart Shea. CAVANAUGH: Good evening. Crystal Cavanaugh, Fountain Hills resident. You acknowledged there were only three meetings left and yet three still refuse to seat Gayle. Let's talk about some of the 65 -- not 67 -- submitted speaker cards, referenced more than once, as though important in justifying your no-vote. Most of these orchestrated submittals didn't even give a reason, they were just against. Some made nonpartisan references while being extremely partisan. Sort of the like the Council's political no-vote, while claiming not wanting to put your finger on the scale. Some card submittals didn't seem aware Gayle Earle had even been elected outright. One thought all of the Council candidates would still be on the November general election ballot. Councilwoman McMahon, are you paying attention to my call to public? MCMAHON: Council (indiscernible). CAVANAUGH: Excuse me. Or how about the in-person speaker who referenced being offended by Gayle's married son's t-shirt, or that his family wore political buttons, and so that was a reason not to seat Gayle. Another one stated winning a primary is not the same as actually being elected to a position. Wrong. In Fountain Hills, she won outright. Forces are attempting to turn what should be a nonpartisan town council into a council of extremists. Gayle is no extremist. Seating a partisan, such as Gayle Earle, will change the dynamics prematurely. Earle ran as a polarizing figure and does not TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 24 of 43 deserve an early swipe at town policy. Yet, she did win. And there were those who were so worried about the voice of the people, but were unaware that 4,226 voices had already elected Gayle outright from a field of eight candidates. Some wanted to just fill the vacancy when we call all vote and not appoint someone who is not elected. She was elected. The intent is to circumvent the voters of Fountain Hills and install a non-elected political ally to create an invalid majority on the town council. Democracy works when the voters actually vote and elect an official candidate to the position. That was a comment. Again, Gayle won outright and the vote was canvassed by you. So since this Council did not appoint the duly elected Gayle Earle, or fill the vacancy, our State Representatives utilized SB 1487 and filed a complaint with the Attorney General's Office yesterday. The failure to fill the vacancy could result in Fountain Hills losing some state-shared revenues if not rectified. And for the record, I did not initiate or request that, in any way. But thank you State Reps Joseph Chaplik and Alex Kolodin for doing so. Thank you. SHEA: Good evening, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Councilmembers. City attorney, town attorney -- Rachel is not here. June -- I got called to a meeting for a "update" to the Town of Fountain Hills on my projects. It's been a miserable three-year process on those since we originally were financed to do this and we timed out the development agreement and killed that financing. Then we went ahead and set it up two more times -- killed that. So in June I get to called to a meeting for an update on where we're at. Blindsided, I asked what the agenda was in the meeting multiple times -- was never told of an agenda. Got here, was blindsided. And then blackmailed into signing off my rights under my estoppel, which I had -- which I'd sent to the new round of financing, which the town would not confirm with the new financing until I met with them. And then they removed the estoppel. Ironically, after they removed the estoppel, they told the new finance company that I didn't have an estoppel after I'd already sent it to them. Round three, financing gone. So I'm blackmailed into this -- signing this document. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 25 of 43 Came back here about two weeks ago -- about a week ago -- and I asked for my estoppel to be reinstated. I don't want to go through litigation. I don't like doing litigation against this town. If you didn't hear earlier, I put a lot of money into this town, doing it freely -- of my own free will, including Oktoberfest that just went off. 2000 bucks on that and they parked on my property to go do it. All of that being said, I came to Council, Mayor, Vice Mayor, Mr. Friedel was the councilmember -- Friedel was there, the town attorney was there. I said hey, I don't want to get into this whole Prop 207. I don't want to make you guys liable. I don't want to get into the lawsuit. Could you just reinstate my estoppel? Give me my rights back. Because under the law, I had them and you took them away. I know the town attorney doesn't believe them, but my attorneys all do. It's about $24 million that the town just became liable for because we decided we didn't want to give me my rights back. Because why -- because somebody on staff decided I didn't fulfill some of the obligations inside the development agreement. That's inaccurate. He said so in court that he has no concept of when it starts. And the only reason they weren't fulfilled is because he decided not to grant permits, ever. So please reinstate my estoppel. Please do that. Before I give a notice of claim and it's going to be in excess of $23 million to the Town of Fountain Hills. And I know the town attorney doesn't believe it's real. I guess we'll find out in court. Thank you. TOWN CLERK: Last, we have Ed Stizza. STIZZA: Good evening, Mayor, Town Council, staff, Aaron. I hope everybody had a great summer. And I just got back into town after being gone for about -- almost two months. And I was able to watch each and every one of you, each and every time, and also to listen to a bunch of people reporting on what has happened in this chamber -- in these four walls. Boy, it's just amazing. I -- I am absolutely in shock. I tried to explain to people what your actions were and who you were. And I found myself just absolutely -- it was unbelievable -- trying to describe how each and every one of you make your decisions. I just want to say thank you to Hannah, Gerry, and certainly Allen, for trying to bring TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 26 of 43 some sort of common sense to the decision-making that's been done over the past couple months. And just like one of -- somebody else had just said -- you know, I'm watching Peggy McMahon right now absolutely not pay attention while everyone else has your eyes focused and listening to what's going on. The arrogance level is appalling. The narcissism that three of you up there have created within our town, you are to blame for. And all your followers that are writing stuff -- not only online -- but out there talking about -- you guys have caused your own problems. I took time to go to your civility meeting last -- the last one you had. And let me tell you something, you are more than hypocritical. It's appalling what you tried to push in that meeting. And for you to sit up here and preach -- you guys are supposed to be representing the residents. And you haven't done that. You haven't done that. I'm sorry. These three are listening, Hannah, Gerry, and Allen. And right, wrong, or indifferent, how it's presented to the actual public, I'll tell you what -- it's time for a change, you guys. It would be nice for you gracefully to step down. Ginny, you've served the town well, but it's time. So it's time for a change. And Brenda, I -- I -- there's no words for what has happened with you. I -- I -- I don't know what to say without absolutely not understanding what collectively -- or the three of you -- have come up with. And -- but it's not representing the constituents that you -- that elected you. And it's wrong. It's wrong. So thank you. TOWN CLERK: That is it, Mayor, no more cards. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks, Angela. Our next item is our -- SKILLICORN: Can I ask another question? MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, yeah. SKILLICORN: Aaron -- and maybe assistant -- stepping-in town manager. Is there something we can do on the dog off-leash ordinance to get that gentleman rectified? ARNSON: Mayor and Council, there is. I was taking a look at the ordinance section. So maybe some of the confusion is that the -- it is a city ordinance -- the prescribed penalty is a misdemeanor. So it may just be something as simple as changing the prescribed penalty to default to a civil instead of -- instead of a criminal. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 27 of 43 SKILLICORN: So how do we get ahold of him to -- UNKNOWN: Can I say something? MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). UNKNOWN: May I say something about the subject real quick, please? ARNSON: That's up to the mayor. UNKNOWN: I'm a dog behavioralist. I didn't know that this was going to be (indiscernible). MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. UNKNOWN: Just two seconds, please. Thank you so much. Thank you. I'm Amy and I am a dog behavioralist. And I have to say something about that ordinance. I don't -- it's not really very clear. But if you need a second, an eighth, a thousandth person to vote on this, you've got my vote on that. Because dog bites are really unfortunate -- and they're not to children, they're not to mailmen, but they're to people being attacked because, number one reason, are dogs not able to be called back by their owner. We're very lucky he's able to have a dog so well trained. You have three owners. One dog that's so well trained, they wouldn't do anything without their master saying go. The other one is a dog pulling you, we've seen all that going on. Well, the other one is kind of, oh, let me make a choice. But the fact that he was able to control his dog, I applaud him on that. But let's just get that ordinance taken care of because a dog bite is a $9,000 fee that's to be one, it's under law. Mr. Arnson can look it up. It's a very popular lawsuit -- maybe it's 12,000. But it's so-so important. In my neighborhood, we have eight people who lead their dogs without a leash. And it's really very sad. Because I have to watch for my dogs and it's not appropriate. So the sooner -- MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. UNKNOWN: -- we can get that posted. MAYOR DICKEY: Appreciate it. UNKNOWN: Sure. MAYOR DICKEY: And one thing, part of the question is too is like what's off -- off-leash TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 28 of 43 versus, you know, on -- what was the other one -- SKILLICORN: Dog -- dog at large. MAYOR DICKEY: At large, yeah. SKILLICORN: Dog at large, yeah. So is there a way for us to get ahold of him and get that straightened out, do you think? Okay. ARNSON: Yeah. SKILLICORN: All right. Thank you. ARNSON: Yeah, Mayor. I don't think an ordinance needs to be retro-active, but I think the intent could be clearer from a prosecution side. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. And I also forgot to ask if anybody wanted to respond to any of the comments in call to the question -- I mean, call to the public. Wishful thinking. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor, that's very considerate. I appreciate that. Just say a couple very brief words regarding this 1487 action. Alex Kolodin did call me before they filed it and I did a review of it. It's going nowhere. It's -- we have a reasonable amount of time to fill that seat. But the thing I did want to call the attention to is the last town council meeting, the only person on this (indiscernible) that wanted fill the seat and reached out to former community leaders and trusted business leaders to put somebody in the seat -- that was hoping to get a 6-0 vote on -- I was vilified by Councilwoman Toth and Councilman Friedel -- claiming that I was going behind the back of this council. I was doing my job. Had -- had they followed my lead, they would have never filed the 1487 action because we would have been pursuing -- which I was doing because that is my job -- FRIEDEL: It's not your job. KALIVIANAKIS: It is my job, Gerry, because it's a job of the Council. MAYOR DICKEY: One at a time, please. KALIVIANAKIS: So anyway, that's what I wanted to state. TOTH: I was mentioned by name, so I'll be responding to that. The reality is, is that Gayle Earle won the election in the primary. You're getting a lot thrown in your face to distract you, but the reality is, is that Councilmember Kalivianakis voted no to fill the TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 29 of 43 seat. Were there interviews to potentially bring someone who had not been chosen by the people allegedly -- and Councilmember Kalivianakis claims that -- that person was never brought forward to this Council. I was never aware who that person even is. They were not brought up in a motion. The decision of this Council was to leave the seat vacant, period. FRIEDEL: It's the Council's role -- not yours, Brenda. And -- and there's a process for that and it's called for the interview and applicants. None of us knew anybody. How many people did you talk to? We don't even know. So it's the Council's role, not you as an individual. KALIVIANAKIS: But I am on the Council, Gerry, and it is my role. And I was doing my -- my job. FRIEDEL: I'm sorry. We're going to have to -- KALIVIANAKIS: And doing my job well, by the way. FRIEDEL: -- agree to disagree because it's the role of the Council, not you as an individual. TOTH: If you were simply doing your job we would know who that person was. So -- MAYOR DICKEY: We do have -- we have several processes for filling vacancies, including not filling one. And that's what happened. At the meeting, anybody could have said, well, let's do an interview process or put out a request for interest. There was an article from 2018 that I just looked up, which had all six times this ever happened -- I don't know about ever -- but six times that it happened fairly recently. And in some cases, we did put out -- had people come, had public -- even had a public, you know, forum kind of a thing. Obviously, there was a little bit more time. And just for the record, when I was -- when I was appointed, I had won in -- we did the March and May elections in those years. And I had won in March. The three people had won straight out, so that was decided. But the key to the 1487 part of it, is that that was a vacancy for almost a year. And now, Senator Kavanagh was on that same council that didn't fill that vacancy from May of 2005 until April of 2006. So it's always been something that we were able to do, is to not fill a vacancy, so. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 30 of 43 And we've done it different ways. We had -- when we appointed Councilman Kavanagh -- and I think Gerry -- we -- those were after elections that weren't successful. When we appointed -- oh, I'm forgetting. But anyway, we've done it where people have won, we've done it where people didn't win. We've done it -- opened up to the whole community and we've left them vacant for a year. So we've done it all. And I just want to set that straight because of this 1487 discussion going on. TOTH: May I ask a question? MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. TOTH: Was that ever after a primary when we have someone who's about to fill the seat? MAYOR DICKEY: Since when? TOTH: Have we ever left a vacancy after an election where someone is due to fill the seat? MAYOR DICKEY: I don't know, I would have to check. But -- KALIVIANAKIS: (Indiscernible). TOTH: Because there was no -- MAYOR DICKEY: -- it doesn't really matter. You don't know that. But -- and again, if you want to -- and -- and not to put a big focus on you, but, you know, 4,000 votes, we had an election, 10,000 people voted. Some of us take things differently. And that's what happened. And we only have a couple more meetings to go. And I think we'll be fine. Anyway, let's move on to the consent agenda, please. Can I get a motion? MCMAHON: So moved to approve. KALIVIANAKIS: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Skillicorn? TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 31 of 43 SKILLICORN: Yes. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. TOWN CLERK: Yep. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. I'm sorry, I cut you off. TOWN CLERK: It's okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Our first regular agenda item is services agreement about the washes and -- Justin. Thank you. WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. Wash maintenance in one form or another began shortly after incorporation. As the town has moved forward with technology and other innovations, so has the wash maintenance. There are a few things that have remained standard. In the beginning, the intent was that they would maintain the areas where we had under-road crossings or over the road low-flow crossings to keep material and sediment out of those areas to prevent any flooding issues. There have been a couple of minor changes to that included, but not limited to, the eradication or the attempt to eradicate non-native species, primarily all the different species of palm trees. And another one that is a challenge is saltcedar. Taking all of that information into consideration, we -- in the past, the town had three different types of contracts related to washes and/or drainage slivers and/or dams. Staff has not been before the Council in approximately eight years to discuss wash maintenance contracts because there was a long-term five-year contract. And then there were some issues related to that agreement. The pandemic affected that. And coming out on the other end, we simply had to terminate the agreement. During that timeframe, staff worked with the town management, legal counsel, stakeholders, and developed a plan that would allow us to bring all of the three different types of TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 32 of 43 drainage, wash, and dam maintenance together for one contract. That's what we are here to discuss tonight. I've put together just a short PowerPoint to point out a few things. It's important to note that wash maintenance is not come in and clear-cut everything and remove all of the vegetation, native, or non-native, or invasive species. The intent of wash maintenance, which can be viewed in the ordinance referenced in the -- in the staff report, is to ensure that we have adequate drainage primarily and also mitigation measures related to the potential or the possibility of wildfires. We're going to spend just a moment to discuss fires. The direction from the chief in the back of this room and the fire marshal, is that we help to eliminate or minimize ladder fuels. Ladder fuels are the shorter, more combustible, organics that are near the surface of the wash, that allow a fire to spread quickly. And then they -- they -- those ladder fuels use wind to climb the trees and stuff like that, obviously, and rage out of control. This is a map of all the town-owned washes that we are responsible for doing maintenance in. It should be noted, there are several washes within the town limits that are privately owned by homeowners associations, neighborhood associations, and/or golf courses. We are not responsible for any of the maintenance related to that. But we certainly share our expertise as does the fire department share theirs. MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director, the color-coding; does that have any significance? WELDY: Initially, it did. What it's -- what it's primarily doing is identifying locations where we would have gone and worked in the past and considered that a single project. It also helps to identify the named wash in that area. As you can see, we have just over 200 acres of washes. That's a considerable amount of open space to maintain. I'm giving everybody just a moment to look at that map before we move on. This right here is a graph that we developed with support from the fire chief and the fire marshal. And the reason we're showing this tonight is over the past TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 33 of 43 several months -- but certainly over the past few years -- people call and are -- share their concerns related to the fire dangers and materials that are growing in the wash. This right here show the defensible space. A defensible space is 30 feet from the inhabited dwelling. There's some miscommunication related to 30 feet from the fence or 30 feet from the front set back or the back set back. No. In fact, it's 30 feet from the -- the dwelling -- the occupied dwelling. When we come in and do wash maintenance, if there are materials that are hanging over back walls and fences that are actually on the town's property, we will take some measures to eliminate those. But oftentimes, we don't. We also do not clean, cut, or remove the majority of the material that is on the slopes. The primary reason for that is we need that vegetation and those trees to help stabilize the slopes for not only runoff in the channels, but runoff from adjacent properties. This particular item is budgeted. And this is just a little clip from the town's adopted budget, which is online. This is funded from the environmental fund. This is the last year that the environmental fund will actually be identified as that. Next year, the majority of it, if not all of it, will move to public works. And each of the segments and/or projects or associated fees from the environmental fund will become a separate supplemental ask from the Public Works Department to additionally the town manager and eventually the Mayor and Council. We have a considerable amount of money in here just for this purpose. Not only for wash maintenance, it also handles all of our other environmental requirements that are mandated either by the state or the county. It also helps us to support our household hazardous waste event and our electronics recycling event. With that, if there are any questions, I will do my best to provide an answer. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I'm going to ask if we have any speaker cards first. TOWN CLERK: Mayor, the town received one written comment with a position for. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. TOWN CLERK: That's it. Sure. MAYOR DICKEY: Questions for this item? Councilman? TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 34 of 43 FRIEDEL: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director, I don't know if you saw that written comment that had been mentioned. You know, fire and, you know, invasive species. I know specifically we're not looking for invasive species, but that's something -- I don't want to add to the scope of this, but that's something that we also should communicate to the -- to the vendor -- is that part of this, you know, invasive species, a lot of times (indiscernible) that's something we want to, you know, be aware of and try to eliminate as much as we can without changing the scope of the contract. WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, that is clearly spelled out in the scope in work. It was included in the scope that was released in the bid and it's also in the contract document and the agreement related to that. I think it's important to noted -- note -- and that was a -- that was a good question -- that town staff will be monitoring the activities of this wash maintenance every day. And this is not a year-round activity. Because of the environment that we live in, washes oftentimes have creatures and snakes and other things in them that are very, very active during the summertime and can be easily startled. Oftentimes, if you're walking in one of the washes, you may not be able to see three or four feet -- maybe ten feet -- in front of you. Imagine if chainsaws and chippers and stuff were running, you also cannot hear. So it's typically around October, November until March or April -- occasionally we'll go into May -- but very rarely, it's all dependent on temperature. So it's a -- it's a part-year project. You're welcome. SKILLICORN: I'd like to move approval of professional services agreement 2025-030 with the Top Leaf Services -- MCMAHON: Second. SKILLICORN: -- in the amount of 210 -- MCMAHON: Sorry. Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Skillicorn? TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 35 of 43 SKILLICORN: Yes. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Motion passes. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you. Our next item is, I'm assuming, Chief Ott to come and talk about an agreement with the Town of Gilbert. OTT: Good evening again, Mayor and Council. I'm usually used to Rachel kind of giving a little background in there. But I'll take it from here. We've got a -- before we used an IGA with the Town of Gilbert for the use of their public safety training facility which is a fairly new facility. It's kind of state of the art. It's big, it was -- when Paul Mood was here, his buddy was running the project and I got updates from him quite frequently on it. It's a -- it's a beautiful facility. And this IGA allows us to go down and train -- part of our regional training options. It will also afford the option to be able to run people -- candidates that we have -- through a new regional fire training academy when that time comes -- when we start hiring new employees. It will also open up medic school training for us, as well as just other day-to- day training at their facility. It's kind of one of those pieces that needs to be in place so that we can be on their property and have our people there taking advantage of the good quality of training that's provided there. So the cost for additional training is -- is -- if we were sending a recruit to a fire academy -- is in line with the other regional training facilities. This is -- we'll have one more IGA for training coming to you and that will be with the City of Scottsdale. This month, I believe, they are opening their revamped training facility, which is down off the TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 36 of 43 101 and basically Scottsdale Road, kind of in that area. Again, it's -- they've done a marvelous job on that. It's going to afford a lot of opportunities to us. So we've got things that are relatively close to us with the Mesa facility, the Gilbert facility, GRPSTC from Glendale -- which we signed a IGA earlier this year on -- it's a little bit farther, but they also have a good quality training, that sometimes is only available at those facilities. So we are looking to get this one signed and in the book and we're winding down on -- on the agreements and IGAs with the -- our local municipalities to kind of keep us rolling and -- and keep all our opportunities open for us. So I would appreciate you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any speaker cards? TOWN CLERK: No, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Let's see. Who's first here? Councilwoman. MCMAHON: I was just going to make a motion to approve. KALIVIANAKIS: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Yes. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Yes. TOWN CLERK: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Motion passes, 6 to 0. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thanks, Chief. Next two items are related. And I think -- TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 37 of 43 Angela I might be calling on you for this. TOWN CLERK: Yeah. Yes. Yes, Mayor and Council. As you know, Rachel Goodwin is unable to be here tonight. So she asked me to pitch-hit on this particular item. So as many of you may not know, the Sister Cities Advisory Commission was formed in 2016. And it was formed in an advisory capacity just to support the Fountain Hills Sister Cities Corporation. Over time, our locally based Sister City Corporation has taken on most of the programs, operational responsibilities. Effectively, they are overseeing the day-to-day operations and strategic direction of the Sister Cities Program. So the role of the commission has become largely redundant. So on Wednesday -- on Wednesday, September the 18th, the Sister City Commission voted unanimously to approve the sunset of the body. And one reason why is because many of the members serve both as commissioners and on the corporation board. And they do supporting of the streamlining efforts. So the town will continue to support the efforts of Sister Cities, meet regularly with the governing board and -- and continue to maintain those close relations with the corporation and our sister cities around the globe. So any questions? MAYOR DICKEY: Sounds good to me. Do we have any speaker cards? TOWN CLERK: No, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I just want to point out that we thank Zarrin Caldwell, Lisa Ristuccia, and Bev Tall who are the remaining members. There were four vacancies. And we want to thank them for their service and I think we'll be doing something at our next meeting for them. And could I get a motion? KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Motion to adopt resolution 2024-39. MCMAHON: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 38 of 43 TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Yes. TOWN CLERK: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Motion passes 6 to 0. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Did we need a further explanation of the next item? It's just basically taking it off of the books. TOWN CLERK: Correct. MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards on that? TOWN CLERK: We do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Does anybody have any questions? Councilman Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: I was just going to make a motion to approve, Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. KALIVIANAKIS: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Vice Mayor Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Yes. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 39 of 43 TOWN CLERK: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. TOWN CLERK: Motion passes 6 to 0. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. TOWN CLERK: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: There's going to be an event on the 12th of October. So if you're interested in looking -- that's going to be for all three Sister Cities -- and it's at fountainhillssisters.org. You can get the information for that. I think -- so we talked about the off-leash thing. So I don't think there was anything else. Yes, Hannah? TOTH: Considering the new information of the complaint and potential investigation by the Attorney General, I would like the Council to reconsider filling the vacancy in order to not risk losing state-shared funds. MAYOR DICKEY: I'll have to ask Aaron about that because is that considered a reconsideration of a -- of a vote? ARNSON: Yeah. So the reconsideration -- the time for that at least -- for reconsideration of the item proper, can't happen. What we can do as an alternative -- and this up to the Council to decide whether you want to have it or not -- is to obtain advice and counsel in executive session for one, what your options are, because that would clear legal advice that you might want in light of this. And potentially, agendize that for action to direct staff. So that would be my suggestion. TOTH: Okay. To be clear, the reconsideration that doesn't matter with new information, such as a legal threat? ARNSON: Well, I mean, if the Council wants to take that step after getting advice and counsel, then sure. TOTH: Sure. ARNSON: I'm just telling you that absent the Council learning -- you know what I mean -- what your options are, that would be my suggestion. TOTH: Okay. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 40 of 43 ARNSON: Okay. TOTH: I'm for it. ARNSON: Okay. TOTH: Do I need a second? MAYOR DICKEY: No. We can do that. We'll do -- TOTH: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: -- we have a -- I think we have an executive session already for that night. ARNSON: Yeah. MAYOR DICKEY: So we can just add this, I think. ARNSON: We can. Can you give me one second, Mayor? MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Sure. ARNSON: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes what? No. Okay. ARNSON: Yes. We have an executive session that night and we could add -- MAYOR DICKEY: And we can add this. Okay. ARNSON: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman, did you have something? FRIEDEL: Madam Mayor, just a clarification. Are we -- you know, obviously we have the executive session part. Are we going to add that as an agenda item? ARNSON: So we're -- so at least we're adding the executive session. If you want to put on -- I'm trying to think of how to do this -- because we -- the rules say that you have ability to reconsider. It has to be done, one, within a certain period of time. And two, it has to be someone who, you know, voted to the contrary position wanting to change their minds to reconsider it. Right? That's in our rules. So that's what I'm -- I'm trying to make a way that we can one, talk about in e-session. And if there's direction to be given to staff as a result of that, to have a public agenda item for that purpose. Is that what your question is, Councilman? FRIEDEL: Well, Madam Mayor, Attorney, is that specifically laid out in our rules that it TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 41 of 43 has to be reconsidered or is it -- I mean, can it be considered it a new agenda item? ARNSON: No. It's specifically laid out how motions are reconsideration work. TOTH: So I suppose the question would be is anyone who voted in that way willing to reconsider? KALIVIANAKIS: And if I may just do a point of order. The time to do a motion to reconsider has lapsed. ARNSON: It has. Yes, it has lapsed. MAYOR DICKEY: I think we can have an executive session to discuss the 1487 and then we can put something on the agenda that would -- we'll figure out how to put the wording. But that would be possible action-related to what we hear at the -- ARNSON: That would be -- that's what I'm trying to get at -- MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. ARNSON: -- right? Is if you're going to -- if we have a discussion in executive session and it's hey, here are your legal options in light of a 1487 complaint or whatever it is, right -- your options are A, B, and C. And then there's direction from the Council, which frankly, I would recommend that direction be given in a public meeting, right, so that we can all be on the same page about exactly what's happening, then we can have that be an agenda item and we can proceed accordingly. That's what I'm trying to get at. I'm not trying to mince words or talk around the issue. I don't know exactly how to word it otherwise until we know what direction is going to be given. And then we say direction and possible action regarding, subject matter discussed in executive session. TOTH: Then I suppose my original statement slightly changed -- ARNSON: Yeah. TOTH: -- still stands that I would like for an agenda item on the next regular agenda -- ARNSON: Yeah. TOTH: -- following our executive session. MAYOR DICKEY: As long as it's not the same, I think. We can't bring it back for reconsideration. ARNSON: Right. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 42 of 43 MAYOR DICKEY: It has to be something that comes to light -- ARNSON: If it's different than -- MAYOR DICKEY: Right. ARNSON: -- then that's a different story. If it's the same, it can't just be -- it can't be repeated again because that's the whole point -- MAYOR DICKEY: Right. MCMAHON: But also -- ARNSON: -- with difference on reconsideration. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. MCMAHON: Also given what you said, it has to be from someone who opposed it. MAYOR DICKEY: Not anymore. TOTH: Not anymore. MCMAHON: No? ARNSON: Not if it's a different agenda item. MCMAHON: Okay. So it's -- we'll have to go -- we're going to into an executive session first to discuss it, correct? ARNSON: Yes. MCMAHON: Thank you. ARNSON: Um-hum. FRIEDEL: And Madam Mayor, there is another avenue is that the -- this Council could change that rule. ARNSON: Yep. FRIEDEL: And that would just be a simple majority. And I don't want to risk $5.1 million at all so that's something that -- I mean, we have another nine days or whatever before we need to make that decision. But I think that that -- we should have that discussion. MAYOR DICKEY: I don't think the -- the vote for reconsideration is a local ordinance. Isn't that something that's true everywhere? You can't have something reconsidered unless you were on the prevailing side. ARNSON: Yeah, it has to -- well, if we follow Robert's rules and whatever the list of TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS OCTOBER 1, 2024 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES Page 43 of 43 parliamentarian things is in our code, then yes, it's -- that's what we do, right? Because otherwise, someone who voted against or in the negative, can be the one to just advance any agenda item, right, and keep bringing it back? MAYOR DICKEY: I think we all get what we want to try to do here. So we're good. Anything else? Thank you. We're adjourned.