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HomeMy WebLinkAbout241118 Summary Minutes & Verbatim TranscriptTown of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 1 of 42 Post-Production File Town of Fountain Hills Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting November 18, 2024 Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC * * * * * Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. * * * * * Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 2 of 42 GRAY: Hello. PAULA: Peter, you're live. WATTS: Peter, you're live. GRAY: Thank you. WATTS: Thank you. PAULA: Stand by, Peter. WATTS: Stand by, Peter. [Pause] WATTS: Okay. Peter, do you want to call the meeting, or you want me to start it and then you -- when you show up. GRAY: No. Go ahead, Rick. WATTS: All right, it's 6 -- WATTS: all stand for the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence, please. ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. WATTS: Paula, can I have roll call, please? PAULA: Commissioner COREY (ph.)? COREY: Here. PAULA : Commissionner Dapaah DAPAAH: Here. PAULA: Commissioner Kovacevic KOVECEVIC: Here. PAULA: Commissioner Schlossberg SCHLOSSBERG: Here. PAULA: Commissioner Sveum SVEUM: Here. PAULA: Vice Chairman Watts WATTS: Here. PAULA: Chairman Gray (telephonically) Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 3 of 42 GRAY: Here. WATTS: Thank you. And Paula, I don't see minutes here, but I know we got two sets of minutes for the 9th -- for September and October. PAULA: Agenda item number 4. WATTS: Okay. So I got ahead of myself once again. PAULA: Well, call to the public. WATTS: Thank you. PAULA: I don't have any speaker cards. WATTS: No speaker cards for call to the public? PAULA: No, sir. WATTS: Okay then item 4. Can I get a motion to approve the minutes for September and October? COREY: I'll make a motion to approve minutes for the September 9th and October 14th meetings. SVEUM: Second. WATTS: All in favor? ALL: Aye. WATTS: Consensus? PAULA: Seven, zero. WATTS: Okay. Item number 5, consideration and possible action for special use permit to allow residential use up to 12 dwelling units on a property located at 16740 E Avenue of the Fountains. John? JOHN: Good evening, Chairman, Commissioners. Good to see you this evening, we'll go through this presentation here. The request is for the parcel shown on the map along the Avenue of the Fountains. It is currently zoned C2, which is a intermediate commercial zoning district and has two overlays, entertainment, and planned shopping plaza overlays. The area was platted in 1971, and this parcel was originally two of the 6,000 square-foot lots that are common in this plat, and in 2001 they were combined into the parcels shown today. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 4 of 42 The zoning district that we have on this property allows residential use by right if it's on the 2nd floor and up to eight dwelling units per acre. If it exceeds that, has a residential on ground floor and more than eight units per acre, then it requires a special use permit. In this case, the special permit is being requested because they are proposing 12 dwelling units, 6 per floor on the second and third-floor levels, which equates to about 43 dwelling units per acre, one per 1000 square feet. Surrounding zoning in the entire area along the avenue has the C2 zoning, north side of the avenue has the overlay district, south side does not. And then over here where Park Place is, is the TCCD mixed-use zoning district. So directly across the street that zoning district allows use very similar to what's being proposed on this property. As far as the land uses themselves and the surrounding area, we have a mix of commercial and office uses on the north side of the avenue, on the south side we have the town hall campus, and then the mixed-use Park Place Development. The proposed development on the ground floor will back up to the plat 208 parking lot. They're proposing ten garages along the north side with access in from that parking lot. And ground floor also includes four commercial suites and then a primary access to allow for access up to the residential levels. I want to highlight the park parking for just a moment. Again, plat 208 provides all the required parking. There's no requirement for this development to provide any parking at all. The proposed use with residential actually require less parking than if the same size building were built with retail and office type uses. The garages will provide covered parking for 10 of the 12 residential apartments. They are shown at approximately 32 feet deep. Their label is two-car tandem garages. However, with the door -- access door into the hallway that cuts into that 32 feet and they may find it a challenge to actually get two cars unless they're short vehicles into the garages. But -- if I back up one slide, but because of the depth out to the drive aisle, there's actually space then behind the parking lot itself for another car or possibly two again if they're short, to be parked in that driveway leading up to the garage. So again, they should have plenty of parking for the individual units. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 5 of 42 The second and third floors each contain six dwelling units. And there's also access up to another level up on the roof, where they're proposing an outdoor gathering area that overlooks the avenue that's shown here on the elevation. This is revised from what you had in your packet. And you recall there was some concern raised in the staff report about a stairwell that was over the western portion of that third-floor area, and the size and bulk of that exceeding ordinance requirements. They have -- I didn't point out that here -- they have revised that now based on that concern and are wrapping that stairwell around the elevator. So, it's disguised more in the middle of the building and will be very much less visible at that location. But they do have that outdoor gathering area again, which faces the avenue. And then on the rear side, you can see those garages and where that height is. General plan. A variety of things that that apply here, outlined in the staff report, but we are looking for a variety of housing options in the town and would encourage quality housing that meets the long-term needs of the town and supports economic vitality. And having a variety of integrated houses, mixed uses, particularly in this downtown urban area, is important. Section 2.02 F1D lays out the criteria for the commission to consider in reviewing a special use permit and basically, the proposed use, which should not be detrimental to the public health, safety, peace, comfort, general welfare of persons residing and working in the neighborhood. Should not be detrimental or injurious to property improvements in the neighborhood or the general welfare of the town. So, as we look at each of those statements and apply it to this particular request, one of the proposals is that use should not be detrimental to public health, safety, and comfort of the neighborhood. This is an urban commercial environment, already has established mixed-use, bringing the residential into the downtown area. As we went through the recent update of our downtown strategy and talking with land owners in the area, there's a need for more residential mix in this area to help improve the ability to develop these vacant properties. Today, it really doesn't pencil for them to develop as Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 6 of 42 strictly commercial properties, and they need the residential to go with it to help make them viable. And so, this will help facilitate infill of this vacant lot. Will allowed residential use to be detrimental or injurious to the commercial property improvements? We don't believe so. Again, we believe that providing new development of the town center, filling up a vacant parcel, providing residents living in the town center, who can then shop the businesses and or work in the businesses, will be very beneficial to those particular businesses. There are some impacts on plat 208 itself that will need to continue to be developed. We've had discussions with representatives of that organization. The concerns have to do -- concerns are probably overstatement -- need to be worked out. We talked about these a couple of weeks ago when you had another similar request down the street. The solid waste, there are bins there. Are they big enough? Maybe, maybe not. If they have to add more bins well, plat 208 is going to have to be a part of that process because the bins will most likely be on their property. As we go back to the map, you'll see there's some existing landscape area along the parking -- current plat 208 parking lot that will have to be removed in order to provide access to the garages. So again, working with plot 208 through that process, they've been agreeable to it. We don't see any obstacles. But again, as the property owner, they will have to sign off on any changes to their own property. And then, finally, will it create a desirable living environment that supports the general welfare of the town? We believe the answer to that question is yes. Again, we've seen it across the street, in the Park Place Development. Very similar type proposal here with the ground floor retail and upper two floors of residential that will help the overall housing and commercial balance and provides a walkable urban environment for those types of individuals who want to live there. We did have some concern raised in the staff report about some over-height elements. The maximum height in the zoning district is 40 feet. We went back to the elevations; you'll see there's some going up as high as 47 feet to the top of that elevator tower and stairs. There is a specific ordinance provision that allows for exceeding the height for Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 7 of 42 that type of activity, so that was taken care of. We had the concern in the staff report about those other stairs that were off to the side of the elevator tower and the concern about those really complying with the code. Now they've change that and are wrapping the elevator, we don't see that as an issue. The loft area with a roof covering, that exceeds the height limit by four feet approximately. That's not specifically covered in the ordinance. But it's a minimal exception, and we think a very nice amenity for this development to allow people that that view and opportunity to gather in that location. So, we see that as something that the council could hopefully approve as part of the special use permit. A good neighbor statement was provided as required. A couple of items in there, they'll let their tenants know to avoid gathering parties after 10 p.m. They'll keep the property clean and not allow them to hang things off the balconies and so forth. Citizen participation report was provided to hold a meeting. A couple of citizens attended. Some of the things discussed garages, solid waste, and some possible encroachments. There were no significant issues, and there was support for the project overall. So, in summary, we feel like the request meets the standards for approval as set forth in the zoning ordinance to provide additional support for downtown businesses and another variety of housing options within the town. So staff recommends approval subject to a few items here, approval of a site plan consistent with the code requirements and conceptual plan. Again, their next step after council approval of the SUP, if it is approved, would be to come back to staff with the site plan for approval. So that would again need to follow this conceptual plan and address any code requirements. Allowing over height for the gathering area and, hopefully, getting a letter from plat 208 agreeing to the modifications will have to occur in plat 208 for this development to occur. So, with that, that's my presentation. Any questions of me at this time? The applicant is here to answer questions also. SCHLOSSBERG: Commissioner Watts? Commissioner Schlossberg. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 8 of 42 GRAY: Yes, sir? SCHLOSSBERG: Are these apartments, are they condos. I'm reading the summary, and it says apartments, then it says a condo. How does it read -- that the -- JOHN: So, it -- SCHLOSSBERG: -- it’s been submitted, it has not been submitted as a condo, so is it going to be apartments, or is it going to be condos? JOHN: So, Vice Chair and Commissioner Schlossberg, we were discussing that before the meeting. Their intent is to make it condos. And so that's their plans. Before that, they haven't submitted a condo plan at this time, however. SCHLOSSBERG: So -- okay, so assuming they're condos, then the assumption would be that during the summer months, the intent of having this vibrant downtown community wouldn't be, because they would most likely be snowbirds, and those would be empty. Again, not planning and zoning related, but just my two cents. So that's assuming they turn these into condos, that would be the case, possibly. JOHN: Possibly. SCHLOSSBERG: Okay. Thank you. WATTS: Commissioner COREY? COREY: Thank you, Chair. So, the primary reason this is coming to planning and zoning is the special use permit because the dwelling units per acre is so much higher than what we're allowing. So, we -- what do we have eight there did I read is the standard. JOHN: Vice Chair and Commissioner COREY, yes, the ordinance allows eight units per acre by right. They've got a 12,000 square foot lot with 12 units. That's one per thousand. So that pencils out to 43 units per acre. COREY: Okay. And I wanted to clarify, so across the street where Park Place is, do you know what that -- what that dwelling unit per acre is right now? JOHN: Commissioner, it is right at that 43,45 units. It's been a while since I've seen the number, but it's in that range. COREY: Okay. So, like you mentioned, this would still be consistent with what we have across the street. I just wanted to kind of compare the two, Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 9 of 42 JOHN: Yes. COREY: Okay. I think, you know, I think I really like the way that you guys’ tie this into the general plan and the strategic plan. And I think the property is beautiful, and I love how it can bridge the gap between what we have in two separate areas of downtown. That vacant property has been vacant for how long? JOHN: Forever. COREY: Forever. So, you know it promotes mixed-use, develops the vacant property, and bridges that gap. I think that's important. And I really like the elevations. So, I think for me it’s primarily that -- is that dwelling unit per acre. But if that's consistent with what's across the street, then I think that that would fit well with what we're looking for. WATTS: Commissioner Dapaah? DAPAAH: Yeah. John, can you speak on -- on waste management again? You -- you stated something here about solid waste enclosures, and then later on you talked about it not being large enough to handle additional waste. Could we talk about -- I know one thing that Park Place is facing right now is now is trash management. It's -- it's become a major challenge for them. So I was paying particular attention to this section here. I think this is a brilliant idea, by the way, but just want to get a better understanding of this. JOHN: Yes, Vice Chair and Commissioner Dapaah. So, I've pulled on back to the image here of the aerial. You can see where my cursor is. That's the current solid waste bin enclosure area serving this area of the development. As this area was originally platted, the intent has always been that any solid waste needs would be taken care of within the parking area of the plat. And so, whatever would be built on these lots, they're going to have to at some point expand out in the parking lot the additional solid waste, whether it's this residential development or some other. I'd also point out is, if this isn't sufficient in size, and they're recognize that it may not be, and there have been discussions between this property owner and plat 208 about the need for, you know, expanding this or adding additional. That -- that change and adding that additional solid Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 10 of 42 waste will be on the plat 208 property. And so that's not this property owner that we're dealing with. So, we just have to make sure they are working together in solving that as it moves forward to get to the building permit stage. So that's why we're putting that condition in there. That's just to cover things going forward that we don't get to the point of issuing a building permit and construction starting and haven't worked out for sure how that solid waste is happening. Same thing has to again, I mentioned the parking. Right now, as you see in these drawings, this area is a gravel landscape area. It belongs to plat 208. They're going to have to take that out and put in paving to get to these garages. So, they're going over somebody else's land to get there. Plat 208's going to have to agree to that and -- and be part of that or give us a letter saying they've agreed rule out those changes. So that's -- that's what we're highlighting. DAPAAH: Okay. And that's within the 250 feet -- JOHN: Yes. DAPAAH: -- that -- JOHN: Yes. This this existing one is within that 250 feet, and whatever they add will have to -- to meet that. DAPAAH: Okay. Thank you. WATTS: Commissioner Kovacevic? KOVACEVIC: So the side of the building is right on the Chase property line? JOHN: Correct. KOVACEVIC: It that -- that's -- JOHN: Correct. KOVACEVIC: And on the other side, there's another lot between the building -- JOHN: Yes. KOVACEVIC: -- and the restaurant? JOHN: Yes. KOVACEVIC: Okay. The height of Park Place is roughly that same 40 -- JOHN: Yes, sir. It's-- it’s at 45, 48 feet in height, yes. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 11 of 42 KOVACEVIC: Okay. What are the -- what's the size of the units again? JOHN: These range -- correct me if I'm wrong -- 1,300 to 1,600 square feet? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes. JOHN: 13 to 1600 square feet. KOVACEVIC: Okay. So, by right if a developer could come in and build first-floor retail, eight units per acre residential on the upper floor, and those residences would have the right -- by right to park in plat 208? JOHN: That's correct. KOVACEVIC: We had some discussion in -- I don't know if was the last meeting or the meeting before last -- about residential requiring covered parking. But that doesn't apply here? JOHN: Vice Chair, Commissioner, that is correct. Technically, it doesn't apply because the parking is already there and provided, and it's provided on somebody else's property. So, forcing that code issue, basically this is grandfathered in. They have, however, in this case agreed to and are doing it as an amenity for the residents providing ten garages so the residents can have covered parking. So, they're largely meeting that ordinance requirement. KOVACEVIC: Yeah. There's no side, I mean, there's -- there's no side yard to side load garages to get more. They're -- they're -- they're using all the available land. JOHN: That's correct. And if you don't mind, I'm going to jump in while you're putting that thought together. Just one thing to point out, I think I mentioned in the report, but as mentioned just a moment ago, this side of the building is on the property line. So, one thing you'll see different in the final design is that eave's going to have to go away because it can't cross the property line. KOVACEVIC: Yeah. They just -- plant a -- a seed to maybe enlarge the units, so that everybody gets a garage? I mean, I just, I don't know how you -- how -- would there be demand for a condo where they've got a park in the open parking lot? That's, I mean -- I -- that's -- would concern me as a developer. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 12 of 42 JOHN: So, Chair, Commissioner, those -- that's probably a good question to ask the applicant. I've had a little bit of that discussion with them. They've got their reasons that you may want to hear. KOVACEVIC: Yeah. Well, I guess -- they'll get the chance? Okay. That's all. WATTS: So, John, just a couple, most of them have been answered. But the SUP itself stays with the property, so as long as the condos are owned by a singular entity, we don't have an issue. But if they were individually titled, do we have an issue then and -- and continuing that, would we have an issue with the sale of it from one entity to another? JOHN: Chair -- Vice Chair Watts, might have to think about that just a little bit more, but I've not seen an issue, particularly as a condo. The lot stays one lot. People are buying airspace as a condo, and so the lot has this SUP approved for it at twelve units max on the lot. And that's not -- that wouldn't change just because you've now done a condominium on the individual unit. WATTS: I'm just looking at if there was a sale. JOHN: Right. WATTS: A sale of the lot, of the operation overall, or if it was converted because a lot of apartments, condos are ultimately sold to individuals. JOHN: Um-hum. WATTS: How does how does the SUP affect that and protect it to protect the property, protect the owners? Do we have -- JOHN: It would still run with the land -- WATTS: Okay. JOHN: -- as a whole. So it would take all the subsequent tenant owners to -- to make a change. Or whoever is the ultimate, however, they set up their property owner's association, whoever has responsibility for that, whether it's the tenants as a whole or one property owner, maintains that control. WATTS: I guess I'm just looking for unintended consequences for -- for actions and so on, so. I didn't see a side elevation to show me the garages, how they're attached to the Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 13 of 42 building. I see that elevation, but this when you look at it from the side from the east, west angle, are they attached? JOHN: So, they're totally enclosed in the building. WATTS: Okay. They're in -- JOHN: Yeah. So, I guess maybe using this, this is the -- the side one, there's the wall of the building on the property line. I didn't include the side elevations. There's not much to see. There are blank walls. WATTS: Okay. So we've shortened up the interior space to accommodate for commercial in the front on the street side. And the parking side is then underneath the second floor in -- in total; is that right? JOHN: Right. WATTS: Okay. This one -- it was probably because my jeweler's loupe, I couldn't get down to the detail of my -- just saying, John. And then we do have a caveat in there about 208 and we have that in writing. Does 208 as an entity have the ability to rescind once they have -- or do we have a way, a mechanism to make sure that they can't resend their approvals? JOHN: Chair, Vice chair. I guess the only thing that would really impact could be the driveway access into the garages. If they allowed that, they get built, and they decide they don't want them, and they close them back off for parking. I think that, again, would be something that the property owner, which is going to work out with plat 208, as they would move forward to make sure they have that guaranteed right of access into the future. WATTS: It's much like Park Place, where the refuse become -- has become an issue because of the capacity requirements of the trash enclosures. As I read the documents, the intent is to have each of the owners, or each of the occupants I guess, have a trash receptacle in the garage. And then they'll, at some point, wheel that trash receptacle out to the enclosure that's on that common area for -- once that is enlarged. Is that accurate? JOHN: Chairman, Vice Chair. Again, I think that would be a good question to ask the Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 14 of 42 applicant. My understanding from the discussions is that at one point, they were thinking about individual bins in the garages and to wheel out for trash pickup, not using the larger enclosures. But they have since realized there are a lot of challenges to that, and so they're back to just using the bins and the individuals would take their trash directly to the larger enclosures. But again, probably a good question to ask them for clarification. WATTS: Okay. And with that, I'll turn the reins back over to Chairman. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I'm good. WATTS: Maybe we should hear from the applicant at this point. Is that what you wanted? Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see. Mr. -- SVEUM: Have you seen the proposed sides of this building? JOHN: Yes. I'm sorry, maybe I should've included them. Again, they're just blank walls because they can't have any openings because they're on the property line. SVEUM: Okay. So, we're just going to have blank four-story wall or three-story wall. JOHN: There's a hope that someday buildings will be built next to them. SVEUM: And the expectation would be, they would be just adjacent to the -- JOHN: Right. SVEUM: And the wall material? JOHN: It's the same as what's on the along the front. So a combination of the -- SVEUM: I see brick and stucco. JOHN: Yeah. And metal. SVEUM: So, what will the sides be? All brick or all stucco. Or what are they going to look like? JOHN: Unfortunately, Commissioner, it's been so long enough since I've looked at the sides because they weren't that important. I can't remember the -- the architecture-- SVEUM: Maybe he can hire a muralist to come in and paint them. JOHN: All right, good. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: The deal with 208, I don't know that I'm quite following it. Is there an easement that allows the cars to pull through those spaces into the garage, or Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 15 of 42 they have -- do they have total reservation of those spaces or? JOHN: So. SVEUM: if I -- if I had the -- the middle unit on the just -- just west of the entry in the in the rear. JOHN: Um-hum. SVEUM: How would I get to my garage? JOHN: So, this drawing here is -- is a little bit incomplete. When they submit their site plan, they'll have to be more complete than this. But these are actually right now showing the existing parking spaces -- SVEUM: Yeah. JOHN: -- and the existing landscape area. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah. JOHN: What this will actually be, there’d be some kind of island here and then a driveway that lead all the way into the garages all along, potentially another island to the left here, maybe a couple extra parking spaces, but then driveways. That landscape area will go away, those utility boxes will go away, and they'll be -- be driveways. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: They'll have direct access, so Plan 208 is -- they're giving up those parking stalls. JOHN: Right. SVEUM: So why can't the other projects on the avenue strike the same deal? JOHN: Chair, Commissioner, some have. And the basic rule is that if you take a little parking space, you provide a parking space, and that's essentially what they're doing. SVEUM: Okay. JOHN: They're moving this parking space from here to here. SVEUM: Right. JOHN: Right. SVEUM: Okay. I like the design, but I guess we're going to hear from the applicant as well. JOHN: Yes. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 16 of 42 SEVUM: Okay. WATTS: Anything else, Mr. Gray -- Chairman Gray, you have any questions? GRAY: Erroneous to the zoning case, but it does feel like maybe lessons learned for us going forward that maybe we ought to modify to -- when we have these cases around 08 that we require a letter of no objection or something from 208 to say hey, we're generally on board. with these schemes. I think that would take a lot of the -- WATTS: Before it comes to planning and zoning? GRAY: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, not -- not -- nothing hard and fast, but something to say, hey, we've reviewed it. We're generally going down that path. I -- I think somebody asked as I was walking and I was going to ask, have we drawn a section between Park Place and this for elevation? I think you asked and it's pretty much right on. JOHN: Yes. GRAY: I don't really like the cupola, architecturally. I wish it was all coming up to that height or -- or that went away, but that's erroneous to this so. Just my opinion, but -- JOHN: Okay. GRAY: For now. WATTS: John, can we hear from the applicant at this point? EJIM (ph.): Thank you. My name is Wilson Ejim. We're a design group. The actor for the project. Like John said, some of these issues that you raised up, we have discussed with plot 208. Had a meeting on site with them. And had some agreement that talking with the council to provide some access agreement so that we can use those parking space to get into the garages. And also on the solid waste, we have discussed with them and provided some locations at our cost so we could be the trash collection central waste collection area for the project. So the options is we can expand what is there or build something in a location that they would show to us at our own cost. So that will take care of the waste management issue. And the access agreement, we're working with their counsel to work it out so there's no confusion down the road of anyone blocking you to get into that space. The -- the side walls that you mentioned will be combination of textures, CMU blocks, Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 17 of 42 you know, and some stucco just to create design. So it won't be just a blank wall until somebody builds on that side. We do whatever we can to make it more pretty, so it doesn't look bad. But it will be a (indiscernible) wall in those areas. So, I believe there's any questions? GRAY: Commissioner COREY? COREY: Yeah. Just around that. However, there's only going to be one wall potentially that could have something built against it, because the right wall, there's already a building there, right? That's where Chase is. EJIM: Yes. COREY: So that's the wall I think we're referring to is that we want to make sure it looks aesthetically pleasing, because that's the one that will be exposed permanently. EJIM: Yes. Well, I suppose what we have in mind is to make it where it's not just blank, we could use materials to create some interest. But eventually, when somebody builds there, you know, they would build up to it, you know, up to that wall. So, but whoever the next person would be, now they can attach, they can still use what we have. But oftentimes, they build next to it because it's going to be a part of the wall at that time, you know. So, somebody can build up to that or use what we have and build onto that. But based -- there are structural issues that could be addressed at that time, based on the project. WATTS: Commission Corey, before you go on, I think both walls are exposed. That's a parking lot on East side, and on the West side, there's a vacant lot. GRAY: But you have to assume that Chase -- WATTS: Chase Bank. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- be kept up. WATTS: Could be. COREY: Could be. WATTS: That's why I say it's an exposed wall right now. COREY: It is, yes. And if Chase stays there -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Just to be clear. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 18 of 42 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- it definitely will be like that, yeah. GRAY: Commissioner Dapaah? DAPAAH: Yeah. With no space being around the perimeter of the building, I'm assuming that your building equipment and HVAC is going to all be on the roof? EJIM: Yes. DAPAAH: Similar to what's across the street? EJIM: On the other building that is HVAC well on top, on the rooftop. So all the units are (indiscernible) up there. COREY: Got it. EJIM: So, nothing is on ground. COREY: Okay. So, it's going to be surrounded with a parapet wall? EJIM: Yes. Yes. It's not visible to the street. COREY: Very nice, very nice. So just let me share with you some of the challenges across the street with this trash thing we're talking about, okay? Down at Park Place, whenever there is a missed pick up, let's say a holiday or anything that causes a backup., the tenants there get buried in trash, okay? A lot of trash because they have chutes that goes down to the first floor. And the closets that the chutes are in get overwhelmed with trash. And so please reconsider having the individual tenants have their cans, because I can just imagine, and if you're going to centralize it, okay, pay some attention to the way that you build the -- the pad. Provide drains, provide other things, water supply where the area can be well maintained. Because this was an afterthought at Park Place, and it is a mess there now -- right now. They are having major challenges maintaining those trash compactor areas because on some of this. EJIM: That's good. WATTS: Commissioner Gray, Chairman Gray? GRAY: Mr. Ejim, just curiosity question as I was looking at your -- your floor plate. So you've got effectively a -- a three -- stop or a four-stop elevator going all the way up to the -- the roof lookout. Where is your machine room for that elevator going to be? EJIM: Well, the -- the one we chose the -- the cabinet, the walls -- the dimensions we Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 19 of 42 have has the machine on the side. So, if you notice the door is kind of shifted a little bit because it's all within the -- if you notice the door is not really on the center because the one side of it is where your machinery would be. Then we have access to this closet at the back that will also grant access to that space. GRAY: So -- so this is a -- this is a MRL -- MRL-style elevator or -- EJIM: Yeah, it's built side. DAPAAH: So, it's hydraulic? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well. EJIM: Yeah, the -- the -- the one that we're choosing has side equipment. It's not -- COREY: With hydraulic you can place them on the side of the building somewhere, and I think that would work, I mean. GRAY: But you still are going to have a -- you're still going to have an interstitial space above it that's going to force that elevation up higher than it currently is shown. That's my question ultimately, is -- COREY: Not necessarily. You won't have that -- GRAY: The only way you can avoid that is with an MRL controller. And that's extremely expensive. I -- I just -- it's neither here nor there as it relates to zoning. But we've already exceeded the height here, and the coordination of that elevator going to that penthouse is a potential conflict with -- with the -- with the max elevation currently shown. EJIM: Like -- like I mentioned to John earlier, the actual final height may be much less than that because there are various elevator there we have to see, you know, the one that we choose and exactly what the final height will be. But the -- the height is less chances will be much lower than that. But we just put that in that the -- as is put into consideration that there may be some height tissue. But I'm quite sure it'd be much lesser. WATTS: Chairman Gray, why don't we just stipulate that the maximum height would be 47 feet? GRAY: That's fine. And -- and let the applicant figure out how they're going to do that. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 20 of 42 EJIM: That'll be fair. GRAY: As it relates to zoning, it's completely erroneous. WATTS: Right. Okay. Commissioner Kovacevic did you say you have a question? KOVACEVIC: How with 12 units and 10 garages, how do you determine who gets the garages? EJIM: That's -- that's interesting. Well, the truth we would like to have 12 garages, but -- but we couldn't. What happened is, at first, when you -- when you purchase these condos and the last two eventually were going to be one that have the garages. But what has happened, we discussed that with plat 208, you know. There are -- there are fees you pay, which is of $100 a year for overnight parking. So for the two units that don't have the garages, there would be, you know, having a -- a parking doesn't -- parking provided for them. It's just that there's $100 per year to have overnight parking. KOVACEVIC: So -- so they would -- they -- so they miss out on a garage, they still have. to pay a fee to park? EJIM: Well, yeah. Well, the -- the garages, no. You own it with the condo, but -- KOVACEVIC: Right. EJIM: -- ones we don't have garages, the two that have garages based on the plat 208 requirement, you have to pay a fee to allow overnight parking because they don't allow overnight parking. So, we discussed with them and their -- their fees are reasonable. So, the last two unit may have, you know, will have to pay a fee to have overnight parking. KOVACEVIC: Yeah. I'm just wrestling with -- with that. I -- I mean, if there's -- I'm -- I'm struggling with the mismatch between the units and the garages. EJIM: I'm thinking that, you know, when you when you have something like that, somebody may even prefer not to pay the extra for the garage, you know? But the price will reflect some difference for those that have the garages and those that don't have it. And maybe that's some people may say, well, I prefer not having garage to keep my price where I want it to be. So, I think it may end up being a plus for some people based Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 21 of 42 on their financial strength. KOVACEVIC: Okay. WATTS: Commissioner Sveum? SVEUM: I'm still going back to this side wall. I don't -- I'm not sure how accurate these colors are here that are showing in our -- in the presentation. Is it --is that side wall going to be blue or orange or tan or? I can't really tell. I am concerned about what that's going to look like on this Chase Bank side. It's a big mass of nothing. I mean, it's just flat wall. There will be no windows, there will be no other openings, I don't believe -- EJIM: Well, -- SVEUM: -- as far as the Chase Bank side. No openings at all on that wall. EJIM: Well, yeah, well, initial design -- SVEUM: There’re no doors, there's no windows or anything. EJIM: Well, our initial design has windows in it, but discussing with the staff, because you don't know who the next tenant going to be, windows are not allowed on any of those walls. So, we took the windows off. Then, the only option we have is use materials and colors to create interest. And there are materials there a combination of, like I said, we have some stucco, I mean CMU wall that are textured, and we have stucco and colors we can use to create an interest. Unfortunately, I didn't think it was going to be quite an issue, so I didn't include this elevation. I do have them, you know, here but the truth about it is, whatever we do has to do with colors and materials. But it would blend with the overall. Like what you have there gives an idea what our mindset is, but it will blend with that. But we are aware that they may be standing there for a while before someone develops that, and we intend to make it look good. SVEUM: I understand that the materials are going to be similar to the front and the back, but there's -- the front and back are much different than the -- than the sides because they are -- the front back are broken up with windows and garage doors and everything else. EJIM: Yes. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 22 of 42 SVEUM: So I -- and I'm -- John, is this part of your internal review, and how do you make suggestions and I just -- I -- I think it's -- personally, I think it's important to bring these materials to these meetings, frankly, to see what they look like. This is a very -- I mean, it's a very visible side, it's not going to change. It took 50 years to build this building. And it's going to -- it could be there for a long time and I think it's pretty important that -- that that is -- is well thought out and scrutinized. Not overly scrutinized, but okay, what's it going to look like? Tell us what it's going to look like. JOHN: Chair, Commissioner, very good points that you're bringing up and I maybe should have concentrated on a little bit more in the staff report. It's something that is looked at when they take the next step. The site plan, that's where we get into the technical design review requirements, and there are some general provisions in the zoning ordinance about creating interest. But to get some ideas, directions here at the SUP stage would help that so as you consider a motion if you want to include something about, particularly on that side, using the materials and the colors to create interest to that wall that that could be helpful for us to use later. SVEUM: I think it's very -- I think it's very important. It's not going to change for a long time. JOHN: You're probably correct. Well, you're going back to Commissioner COREY's comments a little bit ago today. Today, we do have a parking lot there. It doesn't mean it will be there five years from now or ten years from now, but probably most likely it will be. At some point, we would hope that the interest in Fountain Hills and the property values are such that having a suburban bank at that location doesn't make sense, and somebody wants to take that out and put an urban building there. That may indeed take a while. WATTS: Commissioner Sveum, would you consider if we had a caveat in our motion that would say something that we had the -- the applicant had to use the same combination and the same percentages on the side walls as on the front and back of the building? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- zoning case. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 23 of 42 SVEUM: I understand it's a zoning case. I guess I would leave it in -- in John's hands to review. We're -- we're out of the -- we’re going to be out of this, right -- WATTS: Right. SVEUM: -- after tonight? WATTS: We're here for the SUP only. SVEUM: I understand that and maybe I'm putting too much emphasis on this, but. WATTS: We'll lean on John. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We always do. WATTS: Yeah. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: We're not supposed to, but -- WATTS: We do, we do. Okay. Commissioner Corey, do you have a question? COREY: No. Just to reiterate, I think that we are in a unique situation there because like John said, the bank may or may not be there. If it stays there forever, we're always going to be looking at the side of the building. But it could change, and it could be something that butts up right to the edge of the street, in which case they're going to need a solid wall. So, you put windows in, then people going to be looking at a wall. You don't put windows in, then, you know, you're playing for the future. So, I would agree with everyone here. How did you say it? Materials that create interest, I think, would be in our best interest, and do the best that we can with that. I just had two other comments, too. Someone who has recently lived in a condo or an apartment area, from my experience parking garages, you can pay extra to have the garage. I've lived in places where I didn't have a garage, but I could pay the extra 200 bucks a month or something to have it. So, I kind of look at it as like an add-on. It's an enhancement if you want to add the garage. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: 200 bucks to park? COREY: In a garage. You -- you can pay extra to park in the garage, whatever the cost was. And the same thing with the trash bins. When I first moved here, I lived in Arrowhead Casitas, and I think we had eight units, and it didn't make sense to have the individual bins. So we just had a main receptacle, and everybody walked out and put Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 24 of 42 their trash in, the truck, came and picked it up, and it worked well for us. So I'm just speaking from some experience there. I think that that can work as well. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: If we're going to go down that rabbit hole, Vice Chair, more than colors on those side elevations is -- is playing with relief in the elevation. That's where you're going to get the value in the architecture here. But when you look at his floor plans, well, when you look at his floor plans, relief, and color is all you can do. Because you're going to take away any place to put a bed in the master, the next is the bathroom. There's no -- there's no place to punch openings in. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Right. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So, it -- it really is relief and color. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Material. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) WATTS: Commissioners, any other questions, comments? I don't want to discourage the applicant. I think that, hopefully, we've given them food for thought for a few different aspects. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes -- WATTS: So, do I have a motion? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- open -- WATTS: Oh, I'm sorry. Open for public comment as well. Sorry. PAULA: No comment cards. WATTS: That answers that. Thank you, Paula. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You got lucky. WATTS: I did. So, Commissioners, do I have a motion to approve or deny? COREY: Yes, all right. Well, I would like to make a motion to approve special use permit to allow residential use of 12 dwelling units on the property located at 16740 E Avenue of the Fountains. WATTS: Do I have a second? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: With the items stipulated in the report. WATTS: Yes. Thank you. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 25 of 42 SVEUM: So, you're not going to put anything about architectural relief or color or -- or -- or -- or. WATTS: We can do that, okay. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, we have maximum height as well. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So that's why -- WATTS: Listen to John. He's picking up on these things. And so, we're going to include those items that we suggested that were -- JOHN: I think we talked about max height of the 40 -- WATTS: 47 feet. JOHN: 47 feet. And materials to create interest on the side near right bank. WATTS: Right. JOHN: Okay. Thank you. WATTS: Okay. Now do we have a second? DAPAAH: I will second it. WATTS: Commissioner Dapaah. Paula, can I have a roll call, please? PAULA: Commissioner COREY? COREY: Aye. PAULA: Commissioner Dapaah? DAPAAH: Aye. PAULA: Commissioner Kovacevic? KOVACEVIC: Aye. PAULA: Commissioner Schlossberg? SCHLOSSBERG: Aye. PAULA: Commissioner Sveum? SVEUM: Aye. PAULA: Vice Chair Watts? WATTS: Aye. PAULA: Chairman Gray? GRAY: Aye. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 26 of 42 PAULA: Seven, zero. GRAY: Do you want to keep it? WATTS: No. Go ahead. GRAY: Okay. WATTS: I've had enough fun. GRAY: Really? WATTS: Yeah. GRAY: All right. Moving on to agenda item number six, another public hearing consideration and possible action on special use permit for four multifamily buildings containing three dwelling units each at Fountain Hills Boulevard in El Pueblo. That is a long zoning case. So, I'm going to skip that. And go to Farhad (ph.). FARHAD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the Commission. This is Mr. Ejim's second special use permit request today. Similar that it involves residential units in a commercial area. Although, we'll take you about a couple miles to the north and a little bit west to the area known as plat 106. The subject parcels are four 1,280 square foot parcels located within plat 106 near the northeast corner of Fountain Hills Boulevard and El Pueblo Boulevard. It is zoned community commercial. It was platted back in 1974 and as you can see here and the slides that -- that follow, there has been very minimal development. Here's a comparison between one of our earlier aerial photos and our -- probably our more recent ones. Probably, there's another update since 2022. But given that there's has been very little vertical development in the past few decades, it pretty accurately represents the slow pace of development that we've seen for plat 106. I should mention here that there are two common parking areas within plat 106, here located at the immediate corner of El Pueblo and Fountain Hills Boulevard and one here a little further east to -- further to the east at Ivory and El Pueblo. And much like plat 2O8, it has been contemplated that these parking spaces or parking lots here will serve the -- will provide parking, even -- even in the ultimate buildout situation for plat 106. And so in this case, what -- what the applicant is requesting, Mr. Ejim, is special use Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 27 of 42 permit to allow four multifamily buildings containing three units on -- on the four adjacent properties that I mentioned. And all together these properties are a little bit -- total to about a little bit less than one eight of an acre, little over 5,000 square feet. To the far left you have a -- kind of a preliminary site plan of where these homes would be -- these multifamily homes would be located. You can see here it's labeled Homes -- Homes of the Aged. Now, this does not mean it is an assisted living facility. In fact, the applicant has explicitly stated, and it has been explicitly stated in the staff report that this is not an assisted living facility that is being proposed here. But what the applicant is, or I should say, the target market, if you pardon the rhyme, is senior citizens. And there are a few services that might come -- might be provided for the residents, such as cleaning services, concierge services for trash pickup, and -- and the like, but there will be no caretakers on the site. This will be independent living. The applicant also provided a rendering on the lower right-hand corner. The maximum height in plat 106, in contrast to plat 108 [sic] , which is 40 feet, in this case, it's 20-- 25 feet. And as I mentioned in each of the buildings -- and I'm going to take an opportunity here to zoom in a little bit -- the applicant -- if I can avoid that. I beg your pardon. This thing's popping up, and it's keeping me from zooming in. But the applicant is -- each of the buildings has 966 square feet of -- of footprint. Two of those dwellings are going to be on the first floor. One of those dwellings on the first floor is going to be slightly larger than half of that footprint. And the second floor would be the largest unit, which is about 966 square feet. So, four buildings all together, you got 12 units total. And, as you can see, there are some preliminary elevations here as well. There is a, you know, situation is similar where wherever you have a building that abuts right up against the property line, you're building code precludes one from providing doors and windows. And so, what you can -- what you see here, similarly as in the previous case, it's a blank facade, but we can also consider some visual interest in this as well. The -- there I was able to zoom in after all. The buildings are at most eight feet apart, Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 28 of 42 the middle two are about eight feet apart. Here L12 and L11, as I mentioned, it's in -- as shown in the elevations abutting right up against the property line. And there's four feet of separation between the middle two and the outermost buildings. So if we take a look at this plan and couple that with the goals and objectives of the general plan, we see that this plat 106 is located within the -- the -- the neighborhood element, which there is mention of the goal to provide broad range of housing types and densities while focusing on the town center and the Shea Corridor. So for some of the more higher density multifamily developments, which we believe is -- is not the case here as far as the intensity of the multifamily is concerned. The -- the character areas mentioned, particularly the neighborhood, also encourages smaller lots with a mix of nonresidential uses. And it also encourages redevelopment and infill in a manner consistent with small town character that supports existing neighborhoods and also fostering long -- long-term viability. So, taking a look at Plat 106, considering that it's been underutilized for the past 50 years, which -- which is actually 1972 was when it was platted. You know, this may be the answer to some of the lack of development -- development going on in this area while also maintaining a low intensity of development within the neighborhood character area. John shared this -- shared these criteria with you before in his presentation. What you'll be considering here in this case as well is, you know, answers to the questions of whether or not this is detrimental, that the special use permit request is detrimental to the public health, safety, peace, comfort, and welfare -- welfare of all persons. And whether or not it's detrimental or injurious to property and improvements in an area =-- in area or general welfare of the town. The applicant has gone through the citizen participation process as required by the -- the zoning ordinance, where he had mailed out notices to neighboring property owners and also scheduled at least two virtual meetings, where there were about a handful, maybe three or four attendees, that provided some feedback. But there was no opposition to the request. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 29 of 42 So, staff recommends approval of the special use permit as requested, as it is consistent with the neighborhood character type. I thought I had one other bullet item here, but it also maintains a low-intensity character -- land use character within plat 106, excuse me, and the surrounding neighborhood. And with that, I'll conclude my presentation and open up to questions. GRAY: Farhad, that's plat 106. FARHAD: Plat 106, yes. GRAY: Normally, the HOA has shown up to the special use permit. Did they weigh in on this one at all? FARHAD: I believe at the citizen participation-- during that process that the applicant initiated there -- there were -- GRAY: There was representation. FARHAD: -- members of -- of -- of that -- GRAY: Okay. FARHAD: -- organization as well, so. GRAY: And then could -- could you go back to the overall -- FARHAD: Site plan? GRAY: The one you were trying to blow up a little earlier. FARHAD: Yeah. Hm-hum. GRAY: There are two things, I suppose, on this. I -- I -- something seems weird to me about this. So, Homes for the Aged on the second story, something's not right there. So I -- I think that's misleading. Is the applicant coming back to make a presentation? Or to answer any questions? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Has he left? FARHAD: Might be at the lobby -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- he is. WATTS: John's going to go try to retrieve him, but. GRAY: Yeah. So that that seems very odd to me. And then, as you look at the floor plan Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 30 of 42 up there, that's a rack 'em and stack 'em floor plan. This isn't platted condos. This is something else that's -- that's being presented as platted condos. And then I guess the third thing that I -- I just -- I suppose each of these cases is -- is reviewed in isolation from another, but this would be the third, I think, right? The third application for a special use permit in 106. FARHAD: Yes. GRAY: And the other two have yet to come to fruition. FARHAD: Four. COREY: This would be the fourth one in the past year and a half or so. GRAY: And those -- those all still -- those -- is he available? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Oh goodness. GRAY: That's interesting as well. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Maybe he forgets. GRAY: I would forget too, if I had a zoning case up tonight. I was 15 minutes late. Who am I -- now I forgot I was going to say too. Commissioner Kovacevic? KOVACEVIC: Yeah. So this is a plan for 12 units, right? Where -- where -- FARHAD: Four buildings, three units in each. KOVACEVIC: Where are they? FARHAD: Okay. So there are two units on the first floor. This is -- this is the typical first floor plan. One you would enter through the -- the short end of the building, the other the long end of the building. So here's the -- are you able to see the cursor? Yeah. Here's the -- the walls separating the two units. So they're rather small units. I could -- you could say one is about, you know, it's like a two third, one third kind of -- KOVACEVIC: Where -- where on -- where on the site plan? I -- I just -- I don't understand the project. FARHAD: So -- KOVACEVIC: Is it -- so I mean -- FARHAD: Heres El Pueblo -- Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 31 of 42 KOVACEVIC: Yeah. WATTS: El Pueblo's right here, and where this cursor is, is where the existing parking lot -- KOVACEVIC: Right. FARHAD: -- is. Okay. And so there's a vacant land piece -- KOVACEVIC: Right. FARHAD: -- immediately adjacent to El Pueblo. And so there are four lots -- KOVACEVIC: Right. FARHAD: Maybe if I go back -- KOVACEVIC: So there's four -- three units going into each of those four lots? FARHAD: That's correct. KOVACEVIC: So all those other lots with the numbers on them on this site plan, nothing's being built there in this -- for this petition? FARHAD: No. Not in this -- not with this special use permit request. There -- there -- there is some proposed development being -- other proposed developments being shown on this site plan, but that -- this -- those are not a part of the scope of this special use permit request. He will, Mr. Ejim will follow with another special use permit request. KOVACEVIC: Wow. So -- so 12 -- so 12 units are going on that one four lot? FARHAD: Correct. KOVACEVIC: And -- and -- and -- so each lot has a first-floor unit and -- and a second? FARHAD: Two first floor units -- KOVACEVIC: Two first floor units. FARHAD: -- and one second floor unit. KOVACEVIC: And one second floor unit. FARHAD: The second floor unit would be the largest, 966 square feet. KOVACEVIC: And a home for the aged is going to have people walking up steps to go to the -- to live in a second-floor unit. FARHAD: That's the plan being depicted here. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 32 of 42 KOVACEVIC: And -- okay. The overall site plan there's -- it's a brand-new parking lot. I mean, they -- they just -- it looks like they just paved it and striped it to the, that'd be the west. That's -- that is permitted parking for this development? FARHAD: Correct. KOVACEVIC: So there -- there won't -- they -- they could park in that parking lot to the east too, but it'd be a much longer walk, right? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) FARHAD: Right. KOVACEVIC: Okay. And the -- but the 12 units themselves provide zero covered parking? FARHAD: That's -- that's correct. There's no covered parking being proposed with this request. KOVACEVIC: Hang on. Well, I've got to find -- I have more questions. All right that's all I got for now. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- ask me. FARHAD: It is. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He was first. GRAY: You can go ahead, Scott. WATTS: I mean, really, my comments and questions are for him, and he's not here. I mean, this whole retirement component is baffling to me, and I've got questions on that. But I mean, this -- it almost feels like this is Daybreak all over again, where they're trying to slip in some type of retirement community. But I don't have him in here to ask, so I'll just leave it on the floor. GRAY: Commissioner, Vice Chair? WATTS: For the sake of simplicity, we've got a studio, a one bedroom and a two- bedroom, 2 bedrooms up on top, studios on the bottom floor -- FARHAD: Correct. WATTS: -- and the location of the personnel door access door on the bottom one looks like it's right on the zero-lot line. So, are we going to have sidewalks somewhere that Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 33 of 42 are -- and then that leads to the question about if you're going to use those two other two areas for parking, are we going to have sidewalks? Are we going to have lighting? What -- what do we have from a safety standpoint for the residents that are going to be there? But that -- that studio can't be 300 square feet. FARHAD: Sure. WATTS: The other one's 600 and the other one's almost just under 1,000, 966. But that personnel door on the -- on the studio, on the bottom floor, I'd really like to know, even on a four-foot walkway, I guess you could make it work between buildings, but not on the end units. FARHAD: Yeah. Those are perfectly valid questions, especially with regards to the sidewalks leading to the side door here. Because I believe -- yeah, it would be -- WATTS: Challenging, let's call it. FARHAD: Yeah. It would be challenging because then you would have to provide a walkway on the neighboring property. So typically, those things are worked out during the site plan stage. WATTS: Well, I think it's unfortunate that the applicant is not here to answer the question. So, I think -- FARHAD: Yeah. WATTS: I think that -- I think we got a lot more questions and we're just not getting there, so. FARHAD: Okay. WATTS: Thank you. FARHAD: Yeah. I think John was suggesting a continuance might be in order here. And it' not likely it would be in December, I believe he had indicated that he won't be here that month, but maybe in January? GRAY : Commissioner Dapaah? DAPAAH : Yeah. At -- at what point does the AHJ (ph.) look at this before -- do they look at this before it comes to us? FARHAD: I'm sorry, could you repeat that question? Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 34 of 42 GRAY: The fire Marshall. DAPAAH: the fire Marshall. FARHAD: Oh, the fire Marshall. DAPAAH: The authority having jurisdiction. FARHAD: The -- the fire Marshall, Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Dapaah, the fire Marshall does review this kind of as more of a cursory review than anything else. If there's anything that stands out, anything egregious that needs to be addressed, the fire Marshall will typically comment on them, but he has not found anything at this stage. DAPAAH: Oh. Four -- four feet seems to me like it might be light safety. I mean, from what I understand, six feet is minimum for even a means of egress, or I mean they -- because it's outdoors, maybe that may not apply. WATTS: And because there's probably a two-hour demising wall between the units. DAPAAH: Okay. FARHAD: Yeah, our chief building official looks at that as well to make sure if there's enough clearance. DAPAAH: Right. FARHAD: And he's been on -- in on some discussions and some meetings with the applicant and again, he -- some challenges were identified, but there was -- wasn't anything that was as a deal breaker. DAPAAH: Yeah. Fine, I haven't noticed a public notice on the site. There's been one? Okay. FARHAD: Yeah, it's the applicant’s responsibility to post -- DAPAAH: -- to post one? FARHAD: -- on the site -- DAPAAH: And he did post it? FARHAD: He actually -- he -- the applicant did come over to pick up some or I should say recycle some of our old signs. It was provided to him and -- DAPAAH: I haven't seen one. I -- I -- I -- I walk that area quite a bit. GRAY: Well, in that neighborhood, in the other cases has been active. So, it's -- it's Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 35 of 42 interesting. DAPAAH: Yeah. And you know that parking lot, you should come around there on Sundays. I'm not sure which church uses that parking lot. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible). DAPAAH: What now? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) DAPAAH: Okay. That place is full on Sundays most of the day. And if that is what these potential tenants or residents are going to use for parking, then there's something that really should be clarified here. Yeah. I feel like -- like we need to get some answers. Yeah. GRAY: Mr. Sveum? No. Commissioner Watts? WATTS: Without the applicant here, I don't see anybody in the audience, so we won't have a call to the public, I'd move to postpone this until we have the applicant and have -- be able to answer questions. GRAY: Well, let's -- let's run the formality. Call to the public? PAULA: No call to the public. WATTS: See told you. GRAY: Well, I mean it was pretty obvious, I get that. Commissioner Kovacevic, do you have anything else? KOVACEVIC: I -- I just the -- we have 12 units here. How -- what is -- is going to market it to senior citizens, but what -- I mean, they're not for sale. They're -- they're deed -- I mean, how is it going to be -- what is going to make it a home of the aged? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: How about ADA? FARHAD: Yeah, I think the applicant would -- GRAY: Patios. No, there's no patios. FARHAD: -- been able to describe that. KOVACEVIC: Yeah. Yeah. And -- FARHAD: We at -- the from the staff level, we're looking at this as multifamily development within a commercial area. Now, are we going to hold the applicant to it Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 36 of 42 being a home for the aged versus, you know, open to all ages? No. But -- KOVACEVIC: So, with a 300-foot unit in there, what's to keep the applicant from making that an office and turning it into a group home? FARHAD: Well, Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Kovacevic, that would require another entitlement process. And let's just say hypothetically that any one of these units were to turn into a group home. Well, neither of the other units would be allowed to be a group home because of the distance requirements. But, going back to what I was saying earlier, that's a -- that's a different entitlement process. And if they were to exceed the eight residents that they were entitled to, which in -- there's no -- absolutely no way that eight residents would fit in anyone of these units, then -- KOVACEVIC: But how would you know? I mean, not that they would put eight in one unit. They put 8 or 15 in the remaining 11 units. How would you know? FARHAD: Well, -- DAPAAH: Commissioner, I think it's sitting between two churches and a daycare right next door. So I don't think they could even pass for a group home, right? Because there's a -- there's an ordinance about distance. COREY: I'm not sure if there is one that applies to group homes. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's -- it's vacant. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- homes. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It's vacant in there. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah. DAPAAH: This is a daycare. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah. But I mean, there's vacant land here, and there's vacant land here. DAPAAH: And then this is the church. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah. DAPAAH: And then this is a church, too. GRAY: Commissioner Sveum? SVEUM: Is it common ownership of the lot to the south -- the parcel to the south of this Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 37 of 42 proposed development? FARHAD: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Sveum, that's -- I think that's -- I’d have to check the assessor's website, but it's an independent title. SVEUM: Right. But it is -- it's not owned by the same people that own -- FARHAD: I am -- I -- I don't know for sure. I don't believe it is, but -- SVEUM: I think in in a case like this, where it's so tight and narrow, they should be strongly encouraged to contact the owner of the other parcel and do a master plan of these two small lots to do it right. Because I -- I -- I also believe there's -- there's -- there's fire issues. That -- that 300 square foot unit in the backside, if there's another building built to the south, the access to that from an emergency standpoint is going to be little or none, right? I mean, it's going to be so tight in there. I think it's -- I think this is a poor plan. I --I don't know that there's the applicant could tell me anything to rule out change my mind on it right now. Because it -- it would be just aesthetic questions we'd be asking about the steps and everything else. I think it's just poor planning. GRAY: Yeah. I generally concur with the commissioner. Just one more thought, Farhad, then we'll close this out. The -- the four that we've reviewed over the last call it two years within 106 here, I -- I understand that's just a -- a low budget render of -- of what it is. But when you look at that in contrast to the others that we have highly scrutinized, there's a big gap in level of finish between that and -- and what's, you know, what's been proposed by -- I can't remember the names of the developers -- the other folks who have -- have been up here. And I think that we've talked about master plan for that -- that plat for, I don't know, every single one of those cases that comes up. But that it's desperately in need of a master plan, but we can't influence that. But I think we can encourage some level of alignment in the build and they're -- they're miles apart here. So I think that's the last of things after you get over all these other hurdles. But I -- I think that that's in the mix too, and I think even with an applicant presentation today, I would be hard pressed to vote to approve something like this. So, let's go ahead and put a motion on the table to continue. We'll put it out to the max, to the 60 days that we can and wait for the applicant's feedback. Or unless I didn't Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 38 of 42 hear you right, I thought you said December he's unavailable. FARHAD: Yeah, he's indicated he's unavailable in December, so. And I had expected to come before you again on a -- another SUP request from Mr. Ejim. So in the same plat 106. So -- so we could present them together at once. GRAY: All of it. No? CORY: He only owns those four. GRAY: Okay. Motion to continue to the January session? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, we can't. We can only go 60 days. GRAY: Or should we just say not to exceed 60 days? JOHN: Oh, sure. Mr. Chairman, I believe you're -- you're considering a provision that's in the rezoning section of the code, but it's not in the special use permit section about the 60 days. So, you don't have that limitation here. GRAY: Okay. JOHN: And so, I think what -- what Mr. Kovacevic is going to say in just a second is, just continuing it but not to a date certain. Because either way, we have to re-advertise it. GRAY: Okay. JOHN: And if he's not available in January, we've already locked in January, then we're kind of stuck, so. GRAY: Good. Motion on the table to continue, looking for a second. WATTS: Second. GRAY: All in favor? ALL: Aye. PAULA: -- name of the second, I didn't hear the second. GRAY: Watts. PAULA: Watts. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He's very quick, Paula. GRAY: All right. Agenda item 7. Commission discussion, request for research to staff commissioners. Anything for Farhad or John? You would. COREY: One question. So now that we are -- we approve special use permit for this Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 39 of 42 second to last parcel on Avenue of the Fountains, there's one left, right? It's the one adjacent to what we just approved. So, my question is who -- my question is, I guess, what jurisdiction do we have to say that something needs to be developed there within a certain amount of time, or can that just be left open and empty indefinitely? Because it would seem like if that's a common area, we should be able to have some influence on putting a timeline on that, right. Go ahead. GRAY: Nice try. JOHN: Chairman Gray and Commissioner Corey, yes, I understand what you're saying. That would be very nice to be able to influence that and get it built sooner rather than later and then fill in that last piece as well as, you know, that's the only one facing the avenue. There are a couple of other vacant ones as you go around some of those little pocket park areas that that need to be done also. And we'd like to see all of them done. I think some of the things that maybe I'm going to jump ahead just a little bit here in terms of our efforts to implement ideas that were in the revised updated downtown strategy plan. One of those is to amend the zoning ordinance to help encourage some of the development in the area and also to look at how vacant properties may be utilized to some degree while they're waiting for more formal development to occur. And so we have drafted the first draft of -- of that ordinance that we think can address those items. It's actually going to be on your agenda in December as an informal discussion item, not as a public hearing yet. But we're trying to get some discussion going to see if what's being proposed we think will work and address that a little bit. But ultimately, it's the property owners who's going to decide. And so, unless you want to buy the property and go ahead and develop it, we're waiting for the owner to do that. GRAY: Okay. Thank you, John. Look forward to that in December. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: He said he was interested, John. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I can tell. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Out of my price range. Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 40 of 42 GRAY: Commissioner Dapaah? DAPAAH: John, is that -- this may be just a fantasy, but is there -- is there something in the works to connect, is it Via Linda, into -- into Fountain House? No? JOHN: Commissioner Gray, Commissioner Dapaah. Not -- not that I'm aware of in terms of any street connections. Commissioner Dapaah, I don't know if you can remember from your -- some of your sketches with public works, there have been some discussions over there generally with some sidewalk, bicycle kind of connections. I'm not sure if that's maybe where that's at or what you might have heard, but -- DAPAAH: So because -- I bring this up because I think what about a month, six -- six weeks ago, there was a minor accident on Osay (ph.). The only other route was -- I'm not -- was an hour detour back into town. And I was wondering if the town has ever given it some thought. It seems all that construction going on at Dell Canyon (ph.) that that connection could be achievable. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: It was shut down years ago. DAPAAH: Oh really? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah. Over and over again. DAPAAH: Really? Okay. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: And it is open for fire, for emergency vehicles. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: -- questionable. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yeah. You could ride your bike against traffic. DAPAAH: Haul my -- haul mine back in the truck. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You can get there -- DAPAAH: Okay . Anyway, I thought I'd ask, and we'll leave that alone. GRAY: John, should we call that a rollup of 7, 8 and 9? JOHN: Yes, sir. Just a little bit more with regard to that in terms of wouldn't want you to get through the holidays without seeing us again. So, we do have plans for a December meeting, and that would be December the 9th. We anticipate tomorrow evening, when the town council considers the rezoning request that you considered last month up on North Fountain Hill Boulevard, that they will give us a direction to do the Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 41 of 42 text amendment with regard to golf carts in the C1 district. We've already been working on that. We've already advertised it for the December meeting. So if they don't, then that comes off, but otherwise, we're prepared to have that on your December meeting. We have a special use permit and, again, what I just mentioned a minute ago, a preview of upcoming text amendment with regard to the downtown overlay. GRAY: Very good. Anything else? Commissioner Watts? WATTS: So, John, this is more of a personal question, assuming that the election is solidified, am I still able to be on council until the day -- UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: ----- sorry. WATTS: Commission -- until the day of swearing-in, which is going to be sometime in December. GRAY: December 3rd. WATTS: Okay. So -- GRAY: It'd be before the next -- WATTS: Should I say my goodbyes tonight? And that's -- JOHN: If you think it's going to hold out, yes, because you would not be here on the December meeting. WATTS: I'm going to -- I’m going to put my money on yes, it is. So, I just want to express my appreciation to all of the commissioners about how I've enjoyed being on this council, commission, sorry. And I've enjoyed each one of you. We've been very productive. We've come to good solutions, and I thank you for the opportunity so, thanks. No tears. I mean, come on, somebody. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Well, we weren't ready. We thought we had another month. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Nope. This could be it. JOHN: Yeah. And it's been a pleasure working with you. And I wish you the best of luck on the council. Thank you for serving. GRAY: We'll send you some quality material. [LAUGHTER] WATTS: Sounds good. You want me to make a motion to adjourn? Town of Fountain Hills NOVEMBER 18, 2024 PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING Page 42 of 42 GRAY: Yeah, you might as well. WATTS: Okay. I move to adjourn.