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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003.0206.TCREM.Minutes TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR AND EXECUTIVE SESSION OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL February 6,2003 Mayor Beydler called the meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. AGENDA ITEM#1 - PURSUANT TO A.R.S. §38-431.03.A.4. AND A.R.S. §38-431.03.A.3 VOTE TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION FOR: DISCUSSIONS OR CONSULTATIONS WITH DESIGNATED REPRESENTATIVES OF THE PUBLIC BODY IN ORDER TO CONSIDER ITS POSITION AND INSTRUCT ITS REPRESENTATIVES REGARDING NEGOTIATIONS FOR THE PURCHASE, SALE OR LEASE OF REAL PROPERTY. (SPECIFICALLY, THE COUNCIL WILL DISCUSS CONTRACT NEGOTIATIONS WITH RESPECT TO THE TOWN HALL LEASE.), AND DISCUSSION OR CONSIDERATION FOR LEGAL ADVICE WITH THE ATTORNEY OR ATTORNEYS OF THE PUBLIC BODY. Councilwoman Ralphe MOVED to convene the executive session and Councilman Archambault SECONDED the motion,which CARRIED unanimously. Mayor Beydler recessed the executive session at 6:00 p.m. AGENDA ITEM#2-RETURN TO REGULAR SESSION Mayor Beydler reconvened the regular session at 6:30 p.m. Following the invocation by Pastor Cory Bramlett,First Baptist Church,roll call was taken. ROLL CALL - Present for roll call were the following members of the Fountain Hills Town Council: Mayor Jon Beydler, Vice Mayor Leesa Stevens, Councilmembers Rick Melendez, Susan Ralphe, Kathleen Nicola, Michael Archambault, and John Kavanagh. Town Attorney Andrew McGuire and Town Manager Tim Pickering were also present. Vice Mayor Stevens presented new Vice Mayor Ralphe with the nameplate, as this position rotates every eight months. AGENDA ITEM#1 - CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THE MEETING MINUTES OF JANUARY 7, 8, 14, 16,21 AND 23,2003. AGENDA ITEM#2- CONSIDERATION OF THE SPECIAL EVENT LIQUOR LICENSE APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY BRUCE THULIEN FOR THE VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS, POST 7507, 15759 MUSTANG DRIVE. THE REQUEST IS FOR A FUND RAISER TO BE HELD IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE GREAT FAIR SCHEDULED FOR FEBRUARY 21 THROUGH 23, 2003, FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 6:00 P.M. AGENDA ITEM#3- CONSIDERATION OF THE SPECIAL EVENT LIQUOR LICENSE APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY AMERICAN LEGION, POST 58, 16837 E. PARKVIEW AVE. THE REQUEST IS FOR A FUND RAISER TO BE HELD IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE GREAT FAIR SCHEDULED FEBRUARY 21, 22 FROM 9:00 A.M. TO 10 P.M., AND FEBRUARY 23, 2003, FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 10:00 P.M. Vice Mayor Stevens MOVED to approve the consent agenda as read (Items 1-3) and Councilman Archambault SECONDED the motion. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: Vice Mayor Stevens Aye Councilman Melendez Aye Councilman Kavanagh Aye Councilwoman Nicola Aye Mayor Beydler Aye Councilwoman Ralphe Aye • Councilman Archambault Aye The motion CARRIED unanimously. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 1 of 19 AGENDA ITEM #4 - CONSIDERATION OF APPOINTING FOUR CITIZENS TO THE PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION TO FILL THE VACANCIES CAUSED BY EXPIRING TERMS. Mayor Beydler MOVED to appoint Dick Schmidt, Mark Smith, Michael Howard, and Lauren Conway to fill the vacancies on the Parks and Recreation Commission and Vice Mayor Stevens SECONDED the motion. The 41 motion CARRIED unanimously. AGENDA ITEM #5 - PRESENTATION BY SRP OF A PROCLAMATION TO THE TOWN FOR SUPPORT OVER THE LAST 100 YEARS, IN CELEBRATION OF THEIR CENTENNIAL CELEBRATION(CELEBRATING 100 YEARS OF SERVICE TO THE SALT RIVER VALLEY). Bill Schrader, president of SRP, presented Mayor Beydler with their framed proclamation celebrating their 100 years of service to the valley. AGENDA ITEM #6 - PRESENTATION OF THE ANNUAL COMPREHENSIVE ANNUAL FINANCIAL REPORT BY THE TOWN'S AUDITOR. Mr. Pickering explained that this was an annual audit performed on the books of Fountain Hills and the auditors would be presenting their findings. Mr. Craig Trbovich of the CPA firm Cronstrom & Trbovich reviewed the Comprehensive Annual Financial Report for the fiscal year ending June 30, 2002. Mr. Pickering said it was important to note that on page 34 of the audit the bottom line showed that the town brought in approximately $948,000 less than was spent. AGENDA ITEM #7 - PRESENTATION OF THE CERTIFICATE OF RECOGNITION FOR BUDGET PREPARATION TO JULIE ANN GHETTI FOR THE FISCAL YEAR 2002/2003 BUDGET. THIS DISTINGUISHED AWARD IS GIVEN BY THE GOVERNMENT FINANCE OFFICERS ASSOCIATION AND IS THE HIGHEST FORM OF RECOGNITION IN GOVERNMENTAL BUDGETING AND REPRESENTS A SIGNIFICANT ACHIEVEMENT BY THE TOWN. Mayor Beydler presented the award to Julie Ghetti stating that this represented a significant achievement by the "' town. rr, AGENDA ITEM#8- PRESENTATION/UPDATE BY THE COMMITTEE TO SAVE OUR COMMUNITY ON THEIR PROGRESS IN PURSUING THE FORMATION OF A NEW FIRE DISTRICT WITH POSSIBLE DIRECTION FROM THE COUNCIL. Mr. Hugh Henry, Chair for Committee to Save Our Community, gave a status report on the group's progress and the process that they had gone through with the union to select individuals to serve on the new fire board. The committee selected John Cutillo, John Wyman, and Tim Yoder. He stated that in addition to the committee's public meetings, five meetings were held with the fire fighters' union. The union had requested the following guarantees. • Two of the three founding commissioners would be named by the union • All current fire fighters would be hired across the board with no questions asked- (The committee felt that was a clear violation of the EEOC), • Start the new district without Rural Metro and recognize the union as the bargaining agent • Have their representative serve on the committee to select the chief officers • They were also concerned about their pensions at Rural Metro and wanted to see some resolution in that area as well. The committee thought by explaining their plan to continue with Rural Metro would reassure the fire fighters. That request was denied. At the second meeting with the union the committee requested a list of candidate names that would be acceptable to the union. On Thursday, January 16, 2003, the Council approved the formation of an impact statement recommending that the committee include all interested stakeholders. Accordingly, on Friday, January 17th the committee held their third meeting with the union. By the end of this meeting with Steve Springborn there weren't any names forth coming. Less than an hour later, Bryan Golden called. Mr. Golden was a local union representative and a resident of Fountain Hills. Mr. Henry said he related to Mr. Golden that the committee was not very happy with the meeting as nothing had been resolved and no names had been given. Bryan then read to him a list of names that would be acceptable to the union. He displayed the handwritten list for everyone to view. He read the list as it had been given to him: Wyman, Gendler, Neaville, Ed Cohen, Ronald E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 2 of 19 Jakman, Bob Hoffman, and Randy Roberts. That was the sequence in which he had written them down. It was at that point he had extended the offer to serve on the new fire board to John Wyman. Mr. Wyman graciously agreed to be on the list of commissioners. On Saturday, January 18, 2003, another call was received from the union. The union asked that John Wyman's name be replaced with Bruce Hansen's and they asked that Bob Barbanica's name be added to the list. During the meeting held on January 20, 2003, with the union, the committee was told that they had picked the wrong name and Randy Roberts was the union's candidate. On January 24, 2003, the committee met with the Mayor Beydler, the union, and George Cappannelli. It was during this meeting that union representative Steve Springborn expressed they were considering issuing their own impact statement. Mr. Henry acknowledged that the committee's impact statement was submitted to the town on Monday, January 27, 2003, at 4 p.m. In response to the urgency of the Council's emergency resolution, the committee submitted their impact statement to Maricopa County on Friday, January 31, 2003. He noted that the committee's impact statement was designed to avoid conflict and confusion. The intent was to provide the same service to the town for the same cost and employing all the same fire fighters through Rural Metro. Residents would only need to decide which method of taxation they preferred. The commissioners and residents, through public meetings and elections, would make future decisions. Mr. Henry commented that a second impact statement was floating around town and was brought to his attention by a Fountain Hills Times reporter, Bob Burns. He pointed out that this impact statement had not received any input from the public nor was the criteria stated on the five commissioners selection process. There weren't any names identifying who had submitted the impact statement nor was it signed. Although Hugh Henry and John Wyman were named they were never asked nor did they support this impact statement. He noted that the Committee to Save Our Community did not support this impact statement. He stated that the Committee had met the spirit of the Council's resolution. They were concerned about the May election since both mayoral candidates opposed the primary property tax. He observed that if neither the district nor the primary property tax were to succeed, the town would be left with sales tax to fund the town's emergency services indefinitely. He hoped that the Council felt that the committee had discharged their responsibilities as laid out by the Council when they endorsed the Committee to Save Our Community on January 16, 2003. Mr. Henry said the financial aspects of the committee's impact statement did coincide with the Town's budget and all stakeholders were involved when ihr making out the list of the initial commissioners. He thanked the Council for their continued support. Councilman Archambault asked Mr. Henry how the committee came up with the cost of $.97 per $100. Was a study done or did the committee talk to experienced individuals? Mr. Henry responded that at the last Council meeting there had been a discussion that between $2.4 and $2.6 million would be needed to fund the fire district. He stated the Committee had backed into the numbers to come up with the same funding amount that the town would have to come up with. Councilman Archambault pointed out that the town manager had discussed the cost of the contract at the last meeting. Rural Metro had indicated a 5% increase so the cost of providing services would be closer to $2.6 million. Mr. Pickering responded that the cost would be a little less, somewhere around $2.5 million. Councilman Archambault questioned if a new district would have enough revenues to cover the cost of releasing those assets currently owned by the town. Mr. Henry replied that their revenues would include the $300,000 coming from the State and would therefore be approximately $2.9 million. The committee had wanted to make this easy for the taxpayers to reconcile and therefore had tried to use the same number. He realized that this would be a tight budget. Councilman Kavanagh stated that the original motion was approved at the last meeting contingent upon the concerned parties (made up of primarily the Committee to Save our Community and the fire fighters) agreeing upon the names for the new fire district. He observed that because there were conflicting impact statements and names the town was nowhere near that consensus. The Council had also requested a budget consisting of general category figures so that they could be assured that the tax advocated was in the ball park. In view of the fact that neither of those two conditions were met, he felt the committee had jumped the gun to send their impact to the County. He wished that they had not done that. Mr. Henry responded that the Council had indicated that it was an emergency situation and timing was of the essence. The Committee had then submitted their impact statement to the town asking for a meeting for the following Thursday night, which was denied primarily because three of the councilmembers were not present. He explained that was the only reason that the Committee proceeded with submitting the impact statement to the County. Councilman Kavanagh reiterated that the two key requirements weren't met and those were the provisions for the Council approval. He stated that since the committee's impact statement was submitted to the County,the County was now thinking that this Council had approved. In reality,he E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 3 of 19 stated that the Committee has not met the two conditions that the Council set. He found that disheartening. Mr. Henry referred to the resolution approved at the January 16, 2002, Council meeting. He felt they had met the spirit of that document. There was nothing in that document that referenced personnel. It only mentioned budget numbers. Councilman Kavanagh restated that included in that document was the fact that the major concerned parties must agree on the three names. He asked Mr. Henry if there was agreement. Mr. Henry said he did not know. Councilman Kavanagh asked then why had the impact statement been submitted. Mr. Henry stated they had gone forward with the document with the information as presented to the committee. Councilman Archambault referred to Resolution 2003-02, Section #1, item #2. He stated that it had been the Council's intent to have fair representation of the town's citizens and a look at the impact statement. He did not see that wording in the resolution. He asked Mr. McGuire to clarify. Mr. McGuire reminded the Council that the motion to approve this resolution had included additional requirements. He read from the January 16, 2003, approved meeting minutes (page 9). The citizens' group was to make a presentation to the Town Council at their next regularly scheduled meeting. The group was to address their progress in ensuring that the proposed district's organizing board of directors would consist of people representing all of the interested stakeholders. If the presentation were made to the satisfaction of the Council,then the resolution would proceed. Councilman Archambault stated that the minutes named the citizen's group, the Committee to Save Our Community. He noted that the Council had been unaware of any other group out there at that time. He became alarmed when he became aware of another impact statement. He appreciated Mr. Henry's position in filing his group's impact statement thinking that if they delayed they would be jumped. He asked Mr. McGuire if the Council could give direction or approval to more than one impact statement. Mr. McGuire said the agenda was left open so that the Council could discuss the impact statement in front of them. Mr. McGuire stated that whether or not the requirements of the approved motion were met would be up to the seven councilmembers. Mayor Beydler said that the item clearly referred to the citizens' group: Committee to Save Our Community. Mr. McGuire noted that the Council did not have another impact statement in front of them for review tonight, as there wasn't any other official submittal. Vice Mayor Ralphe read from the January 16th, 2003, Council meeting minutes. She expressed she wanted to see unity and agreement on both the impact statement and those three initial members. Councilman Melendez said there were three issues before this Council. Was this impact statement in order? Mr. Pickering responded that for the most part it was. Councilman Melendez said the whole issue came down to who was to be on the initial board. He pointed out that time was being wasted. He pointed out that the longer that the Council delayed in approving this process, the longer everyone would be subjected to that sales tax increase. He wanted to get down to who would be on this board. He asked if there was a union member present. Councilman Archambault also referred to the minutes on page 11 where Sasha Weller stated that the fire fighters' union would not compete with the citizens group's efforts. Mr. Weller went on to say that due to the nature of their employment fire fighters would be limited as to how they would participate. He had expressed that the fire fighters would support what was best for the community. Councilman Archambault reiterated that was why he had become concerned when he saw another impact statement. He felt the fire fighters were behind the citizens group's efforts and he recognized their efforts. He hoped that the fire fighters and citizens would get together and not delay time. Councilman Archambault asked Mr. McGuire what Council's options were at this point. Mr. McGuire said the County had made it clear that the resolution preceding the impact statement wasn't going to be good enough for them. The County needed some indication from this Council that the impact statement had been reviewed and the Town was going forward. If the Council did nothing, then the impact statement would go forward as is and the County would take that as implied consent. He preferred that the Council provide some direction to staff to contact the County Board of Supervisors with either an aye or nay. He noted that aye was what he was looking to move forward with. Mr. McGuire noted that the impact statement submitted did not have any exhibits with it. He was concerned about the exhibits because the town needed to know what the boundaries of the proposed district were going to be. From his perspective that was one of the things he was interested to see. Councilman Archambault clarified that those had been handed to Mr. Pickering this week. Mr. McGuire asked if those were the same maps as were in his box. Those maps were not was he was looking for as that was map and legal description of the original legal description of the original town incorporation, which would leave out territory VP that had been incorporated into the town since that time. That would be of concern to him if that were the area of the new district. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 4 of 19 Mr. Henry stated that map was only a portion of the area. When collating the documents, that portion had been omitted. He noted he personally had gone to the Elections office and picked up the map and documents that office Lie had in their files. He was given a complete set of all of the additions and deletions from the original platting of this town. The interesting thing was the County did not use the document in determining who the Fountain Hills voters were. County staff explained that they used the GPS system and the assessor's maps to determine who the voters were in the community. Mr. Henry pointed out that it was a legal requirement for the committee to provide it but noted it was not used in determining community voters. Councilman Archambault reiterated that he had handed those documents to Mr. Pickering. He requested that the Council unify everyone and move forward. Councilman Archambault MOVED that the council approve the impact statement subject to the town attorney's review and approval of the boundaries (exhibits A&B) and that the staff move forward with that impact statement. Councilman Melendez asked Mr. McGuire if the council could vote on this motion. Mr. McGuire said he was actually waiting to see if there was a second to that motion to see if both the first and the second concur that was direction to staff to do something, i.e. report to the county that this impact statement was sufficient or not. He restated the purpose of this item was to give direction to staff. Councilman Melendez questioned if the Council was to approve the whole program or just the impact statement that would include the names of those individuals. Councilman Melendez SECONDED the motion. Councilman Kavanagh asked if the Council could make a motion to approve an impact statement when this motion would contradict the Council's original motion. He commented that this impact statement contained three names, one of which a major player had objections to. He did not feel this impact statement complied with the original motion. He asked if the Council were to override the original motion, wouldn't it take a special procedure. Mr. McGuire responded that if a majority of this Council voted to move forward then that would be staffs indication that the Council felt the resolution requirements had been met. Councilman Kavanagh asked the fire fighters to come forward to see if they agreed with the three names on the impact statement. Mayor Beydler wanted to have Council discussion first as ten minutes had been granted to Mr. Springborn(representative of the fire fighters). Councilwoman Nicola pointed out that she did not see a requirement for a unanimous decision from all parties. She recalled that everyone was to come to the table and would he heard and considered. Although she was not sure that every interested stakeholder had been heard, she felt that enough effort had been made to hear from the interested parties. It was not her understanding that everyone had to agree on the three names, only that there would be input from the groups. Councilwoman Stevens asked what the timeframe was. She had understood the Council had a thirty-day window to contact the County Board of Supervisors. When did the thirty-days start? Mr. McGuire replied there was a thirty to sixty day window in which the County must hold the hearing after the district's impact statement had been submitted to them. He noted that the County could also ask for other things to be added to that district impact statement. Councilwoman Stevens asked when would the Council need to contact the County. Mr. McGuire clarified that the town would need to contact the county prior to the hearing (not less than thirty days or more than sixty days). Councilman Archambault reminded the Council that they had put a termination clause in this resolution so the longer that this was delayed, the County's timeframe would be extended and the window to collect signatures became smaller. He did not want to see that happen. He asked Mr. McGuire if he had talked with the County to determine if they had any objections with regard to the names or dollars attached to the impact statement? Mr. McGuire replied he had talked with the county attorney's office on this issue. Their position was that they would not give an official position to anyone but their client, the County Board of Supervisors. Councilwoman Stevens asked Mr. McGuire to comment on the formation of the board. Mr. McGuire mentioned that the other question that was posed to the county attorney's office was whether or not the County felt they had the authority to alter the size of the formation committee. Whether or not people could be added or require that there be five instead of three members. He stated that the county had been non-committal on that. It was Mr. McGuire's opinion from reviewing the State Statute it did not look as if they had the authority. He reminded the Council to keep in mind that in A.R.S. §48-803,the County was required, if the town met certain population requirements,to make it a five- member board. The County thought they had some ability there that the State Statutes didn't directly address. He tkitw noted that the Statute was clear that there "shall" be three members although he did not really know what the County's position was on that matter because they had been equally non-committal on that matter. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 5 of 19 Mayor Beydler commented that some of the concerns brought to his attention were not directed so much on the first three members names but more so on the next two names. The concerns expressed to him on a five-member board were who would chose two names and who would chose three. Where would the balance of power fall? He thought Mr. McGuire was saying that the board themselves could make the decision if they were to be made up of ,440 three or five members. Mr. McGuire noted that the State Statutes were mandatory for the County Board of Supervisors to make it a five-member board if it became a district of a certain size. That would happen 120 days prior before the next election for the current board. He again noted that timing was an issue. Mayor Beydler was more concerned that the citizens would have the majority on this board more than any special interest group or union based group. The citizens should be running this board. Mayor Beydler asked what the committee was doing about co-terminus boundaries. He noted that one would include the middle school (on county land not within the political boundaries of the town). He felt boundaries were an important issue. Mayor Beydler wanted to know who the EMS providers were going tcc be. He questioned as to what happened to the assets when the town took over fire and emergency services in 2001. Mr. McGuire responded to the last question and noted that the other two would need to be answered by the committee. Mr. McGuire said the assets were the Town's assets. There hadn't been any discussion as to how to dispose of the assets or ideas on how the district or the town would work together on those assets. Mayor Beydler pointed out that the assets belonged to the people of Fountain Hills because they bought them. He asked the committee to respond to the other two issues. Mr. Henry stated the committee wanted the boundaries to be the same as the town's boundaries. However, they also recognized the area on the north side of town where the school was located. It would be foolish to say they wouldn't support taking care of that particular area. He acknowledged they did not want this to become a boundary issue. He noted that Rural Metro currently held the EMS contract. At this time he felt the intent was to continue with them. Once there were five members on the fire district board, there would be a staggered election process. He stated that it should be this group who determined who should make these decisions, rather than the initial three members. Mayor Beydler asked for clarification from the town attorney. Was the committee saying that they would be willing to have their boundaries the same as the town's political boundaries and they could have a side agreement to provide fire services to the middle school? Mr. McGuire replied there were a number of different ways this could be handled. The Town could provide fire service to the middle school right now even though the service area was officially the town's boundaries. He did not think there was any real concern there. Steve Springborn, President of the Fountain Hills Fire Fighter's Association representing the Fountain Hills Fire Fighter's for Excellence in Government He expressed their group's willingness to work together and that the past was the past. They felt that the state of the town was attributable to the terrorist attacks of September 11 and that was why all the Arizona communities were dealing with the financial impact right now. He noted they had been ready to sit down and work together from the beginning. He clarified that they believed Mr. Wyman to be an excellent representative for the town and held nothing against him. When Mr. Henry was contacted they had listed the names they were looking at and considering although they had not talked to them. After talking to the individuals, Randy Roberts was the individual they selected. He would bring experience and knowledge to this fire district board and what he would provide to this group could not be replaced by anyone else. Even though Mr. Wyman was an excellent statesman, the fire fighters had chosen Mr. Roberts because or his experience and knowledge of the industry. He restated that they were willing to work together even after everything that has been said and done because they want to do what was best for the community. He explained the reason for drafting an alternate impact statement. It was apparent to them that the committee was not going to follow the Council's direction where all stakeholders had representation on the board. Therefore, this alternate impact statement was drafted so the town would have a choice. He pointed out that their impact statement had not been presented to the town as an official document requesting analysis or review for official consideration. It was simply a draft, which was also given to the town's attorney. This draft was not the ownership of the fire fighters or union. It would be the ownership of the three names that were represented on it. Those names were: Mr. Wyman, Mr. Henry and Mr. Randy Roberts. Mr. Springborn stated they would gladly amend the document to reflect any names that the town or the committee chose to have placed on it if the town wanted to go forward with their impact statement. If the Committee to Save Our Community were to amend their document to state that one name would be Randy Roberts,their draft impact statement would be as if it never existed. That was the only contention they had between the two documents because both essentially represent the same thing. He felt the Council was in a good position right now as all of the stakeholders had not been given the opportunity and therefore the resolution that was passed with those contingencies would not be valid because the committee had not met their obligation. He referred to a statement made by Mr. Wellers stating that 114) the fire fighters would not compete. He stated that the fire fighters were not competing but trying to work together with a group and do what was best for the town. Mr. Springborn said they wanted to work together and would E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 6 of 19 come to the table and forget all of the past. He reminded the Council that they had the authority to amend the current motion to reflect what was initially put forward on January 16t. He reiterated they were simply asking for L. one name on this group. That was the only issue involving the impact statement with which they had any contention,including the boundaries. Councilman Kavanagh clarified that the original motion made on January 16th was that there would be agreement on the three names proposed by all the major players. He asked Mr. Springborn if they agreed to the three names currently listed on the impact statement presented by the committee. Mr. Springborn stated that the fire fighters did not agree with the three names currently listed proposed on the impact statement that had been inappropriately sent to the County. However, with the simply amendment of one name reflecting Randy Roberts,they would withdraw that. Councilman Archambault asked Mr. Springborn who contacted whom back in November. Mr. Springborn stated that Tim Yoder contacted Bryan Golden. Councilman Archambault commented that the fire fighters' list was given to the committee. It was his opinion that the list was given to the committee so that they could pick from it, which was what he felt the committee had done. He questioned why the fire fighters had given the committee a list and not just one name, Randy Roberts. Mr. Springborn said when this started they had wanted to work cooperatively. As soon as the alternative impact study was created, they made it available for people to review. It was the same with the list of names at which they were looking. As the fire fighters came up with names, those names were shared with the committee in order to get the committee's input. Unfortunately, the committee took the list of names being looked at (these were not the names that the fire fighters wanted) and selected their names. Mr. Springborn reiterated that the fire fighters had nothing against Mr. Wyman. Mr. Wyman was simply not the fire fighters choice. Councilman Archambault asked how many times had the fire fighters been asked for a list of names. Mr. Springborn did not know,probably several. Mayor Beydler recalled a conversation where Mr. Springborn mentioned that the fire fighters would be there for the community to put this fire board together regardless of these three people's names. Mr. Springborn had also indicated that there might be some activities and strategies employed if the fire fighters were unable to work 440 together. Mayor Beydler asked what would happen if the Council passed the motion? What would the fire fighters' role be? Would they actively help collect signatures? Mayor Beydler expressed that his concern was for the town and the Council did not want the two groups working against each other, as 6,500 signatures were a lot to collect. Mr. Springborn agreed that there could not be a competing opposition. He noted that the one thing that the Town held in this situation was the ultimate authority to approve or disapprove the impact statement. Without the Council's stamp of approval, an impact statement could not move forward through the County Board of Supervisors. Whether or not the fire fighters would support the creation of a fire district under these individuals was a decision that would have to be made once the council gave their direction. He did not propose that they would fight against the committee if a certain direction were created. However, he restated that their one and only direction was to do what was best for the town. He noted that the former fire district had been eliminated for a very specific reason. If those same circumstances existed that would not be what was best for the town. He proposed that if this was so important and this group truly felt that impact statement must be moved forward, why did one name cause them so much heartache. He restated that Randy Roberts was an expert in this industry with over 20 years experience with one of the best fire departments in the entire country. Mr. Roberts was an acting battalion chief for this fire department, which meant he commands fires that would exceed every fire truck in Scottsdale, Fountain Hills, Rio Verde, Cave Creek and Carefree. Mr. Springborn felt that Mr. Robert's expert opinion and advice was valuable to this group. He did not understand why the group was scared of this individual and why the committee was doing everything they could to keep this man out. Councilman Kavanagh commented that based upon what was said by the citizen's group he was no longer concerned about the financial impact statement. He was satisfied with the financial tax amount disclosure. The committee had made it clear that the initial position of the fire district would be to maintain the current situation. The Council knew what that cost based upon the current budget. He clarified the motion made at the last Council meeting. It read (page nine) that the proposed district's board of directors would consist of people representing all the interested parties. He noted that the Council clearly did not have that as pointed out by Mr. Springborn. Councilman Kavanagh restated that 6,500 signatures was a lot of signatures to get and those fire fighters could get signatures. He expressed concern about the ability of this committee to gather signatures. He expressed concern that this committee and their attorney had been unaware of the changes to the law regarding how many petitions E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 7 of 19 needed to be circulated. He thought that the fire fighters were seeing "old fire board". They interpreted Mr. Yoder and Mr. Cutillo as being representative of the old fire district. Councilman Kavanagh commented that he was not saying that they were "old fire board" but that was the perception and he understood how the fire fighters could perceive that. He did not think that Mr. Randy Roberts was in the pocket of the fire union. He stated that Mr. Yoder or Mr. Cutillo could be from citizen's group and a Mr. John Wyman would be considered a neutral party. Therefore, he stated that he did not see a problem with a combination of Roberts, Wyman and either Cutillo or Yoder or whomever the committee wanted. His real concern was with what he saw: the possible rebirth of the fire district controversy with deviousness and distrust to follow. He did not want to subject the town to this situation. Councilman Kavanagh stated he wanted to stick to the unanimously approved original recommendation. He felt the groups could find three names that they could agree on. Councilman Kavanagh MOVED TO TABLE this resolution to the next meeting when the groups could come back and give the Council the original intent of the motion. He wanted to see three names on which everyone could agree. Councilwoman Stevens SECONDED the motion. Mayor Beydler questioned whether or not the Council could tell the independent citizen group and the union that they must get together and agree upon three people. He asked if the motion to table was the Council directive to these independent groups to follow the Council's direction. Mr. McGuire responded that the Council had absolute discretion to give direction to the groups that the Council would be approving to move forward to the County Board of Supervisors. The current discussion was now limited to whether or not to table this issue. Councilman Melendez was disappointed in this motion to continue because there were still eight more citizens who wanted to speak. Councilman Archambault stated that the content of this motion to continue was based upon the names. He questioned if the Council could get into the issue of names. Mr. McGuire clarified that the intent of the motion to continue was because of disagreement on the names. He did not think that the Council was giving direction in any way that certain names need to appear. He understood from the discussion that there must be agreement. Councilman Archambault did not think it was appropriate to table this to the next meeting. He might entertain tabling it for another week so that the groups could get together. He suggested putting the groups in a room with direction to come out with three names. He reiterated that he could not support tabling this issue for two weeks. Vice Mayor Ralphe said two directions could be taken. The Council could decide to give their stamp of approval to one impact statement and one set of three names. The Council would thereby be taking sides. She felt that taking sides would lead the community to more fire wars. The other road was one of dialogue, cooperation, and respect for one another. This would facilitate a decision on which everyone could agree. She felt that tabling this issue would lead the community toward the second positive road. She favored that approach. Councilman Kavanagh clarified he would not object to a special Council session with the minimum statutory public posting notice of 24 hours when the groups communicated to the town manager that they have three names on which they agreed. Councilwoman Stevens proposed that since the Council was already meeting on February 11, perhaps if complete at that time, the Council could revisit this issue. She felt bad that tabling this did not allow for public comment, as there were many people present. She thought the public might want to comment on the final version of the proposed plan. Councilwoman Stevens stated she would.REMOVE HER SECOND if Councilman Kavanagh would remove his motion to table. Councilman Kavanagh REMOVED HIS MOTION for the purpose of public discussion. Councilwoman Nicola asked to hear from the Chamber of Commerce Executive Director who represented over 500 businesses. She pointed out there were a lot more stakeholders than just fire fighters and former fire board members. There were 20,000 stakeholders because there were business owners who were not voting residents of Fountain Hills. She restated that she did not think that the Council could get all interested stakeholders together in a room and have them agree on three names. Councilwoman Nicola referred to the motion made and unanimously passed on January 16, 2003. She clarified that it did not say that the stakeholders had to agree on all the names. It just stated that the committee would come back to the Council, make their presentation, and if the presentation were made to the satisfaction then the resolution would proceed. Councilwoman Nicola commented that there were interested people present who wanted to discuss this but she felt the Council could come to agreement and allow this to proceed this evening if given the opportunity. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 8 of 19 Arnold Van Ruitenbeek, 15215 San Tomas Place He stated he was a member of the Committee to Save Our Community. His intent was to bring the community back to financial health. This was an alternative to the painful cutting of the town's budget. He felt the union was trying to undermine the committee's work but expressed they welcomed their input and dedication in their efforts to start this new fire district. He had asked them to join the committee in their efforts. They felt that the three volunteers of John Cutillo, John Wyman, and Tim Yoder represented the broad spectrum as demanded by the Council. He felt these individuals represented all the expertise needed for this fire board. He said this was not the time or place to settle the issue of whether or not there should be union representation on the board. He proposed that could be decided by a vote of the people at the next fire board election. He stated this Council should not decide this. Nancy Land, 15823 E. Bursage Dr. Until tonight she had not known there was a possibility of five members serving on this fire district board. She felt there was confusion about the facts. She encouraged that names of both old values as well as new values be considered so there would be diversity on the board. John Wyman,Jacklin Dr. He did not see how everyone would get together on three names. He understood that the Council wanted the committee put together by Hugh Henry to proceed and submit their impact statement. He purposely had tried to stay off the blue ribbon committee because he had not wanted to appear biased and then saying he would not stand as a commissioner. He was surprised to hear that he was one of the union's number one choices. He had accepted to serve only because he thought it important to move forward. He felt the town would be in the black if the town had its own fire district. He stated that if he was an impediment or a problem, he would withdraw his name and the committee could select someone else that would be acceptable. He cared too much about this town to stand in its way. Councilman Kavanagh pointed out that John Wyman was the only name that had been agreed on. Tammie Rothermel,Deerskin Dr. She noted that the lawyer for the Committee to Save Our Community, Lee Miller was present and could clear up any questions that the Council might have. She knew the community could pull together by going forward with this new fire district process. She hoped the firemen would assist and work with the committee members with the gathering signatures. Time was of the essence. The committee needed to move quickly and she asked the Council to move forward with this. Tim Yoder, 15459 E.El Lago He referred to the past meetings where the Mayor admonished everyone to remain respectful during meetings. He felt it would be appropriate for the Mayor to intervene when an educated councilperson makes derogatory comparisons to citizens. He felt those comments were totally inappropriate. Councilman Kavanagh clarified what he said earlier. He believed the fire fighters, based upon the early stages of acrimony between themselves and the citizens group was seeing the new fire board evolving into the old fire board. He had been referring to the past acrimony and the deviousness. His comments were not meant to be callous in any way. Mr. Yoder thanked Councilman Kavanagh for his clarification but noted that if he were an old fire board member, he might take offense to Councilman Kavanagh's comments. He did not think that the old fire board's long service to this community should be questioned. Robert Howes, 15745 Mustang Dr. He envisioned that this process would go forward with some spirit of cooperation. He felt that the committee had doomed itself to failure before they had even started. He noted that many people were concerned about signatures previously collected at Christmas time. Now there was concern about the people who were picked to serve without any input from anyone else. The fact that the committee submitted an impact statement to the County before the Council approved it was a clear violation of State Statute. He felt it important that the committee understand that the three people listed on the impact statement would not cut it with the town. He did not think the committee would obtain 6,500 signatures with those three people on the impact statement. He suggested that spirit of compromise was needed. He acknowledged that the fire fighters had one name request and that did not seem like a big deal to him. Councilman Melendez said there were three issues that have divided the community: the mountain, law enforcement, and the fire protection. He felt the Council would be doing a disservice to the community if they did E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 9 of 19 not move forward with this specific issue. He did not feel that he needed a union telling him what to do in his town. This week he had met with ten small businesses, Paul Kolwaite, and the contractors' association. The contractors had asked that the Council go with what they have on the impact statement, as they did not want a union in their town. To wait two weeks would only increase the acrimony on this particular issue. Those he talked to were eager to get this issue behind them because looming ahead was the law enforcement issue. If the Council did not move forward on this issue tonight, in the long run the town would continue to hurt and it would continue to divide the community. Councilwoman Stevens said that although she would love to move forward on this but without the right people the process would not go anywhere. She noted that the petitions could not go out for a least a month from now (until the County Board of Supervisors approved them). She preferred to have the committee sit down with fire fighters. She noted that the union was already present and served the community. She said that without the fire fighters she did not think that the committee would be successful. Councilwoman Stevens again pointed out that the Council would be meeting of February 11th and suggested that the committee come back at that time with the names. She proposed that they could even meet in the halls right now to come up with the three names. Councilwoman Stevens felt the committee needed three names on the impact statement that the community could support. Councilman Archambault suggested a compromise. He asked if the Council could approve the impact statement and amend the statement submitted to the County within a certain period of time to change a name on the impact statement. Mr. McGuire responded that he did not believe there was an impediment to the committee changing something on the impact statement prior to the hearing. However, it would be the County who would make that call. If the County decided to restart the clock when they get a change that would not be his or the Council's call. Councilman Archambault clarified his thought. If a change were made prior to the County reviewing the impact statement, then maybe the Council could approve this and then give direction to the committee to go back into negotiations and return with three names with which they could amend their impact statement. That way time would not be lost. He questioned if the Council was asking too much for compliance. It was clear that the issue was down to three people. He noted that it was really hard to pick three people. Although he gave credence to the fire fighters, there came a point when the question of what percentage of representation was fair must be considered. He asked if there was someway to move along with this and encourage the committee to keep meeting with the fire fighters in order to come up with some name that they could approve. If the two groups couldn't agree on names, then the Council would move forward with the names they have. Mayor Beydler observed that this issue was not about people. It was about the well being of the community. He stated that this fire issue was the root cause of all the pain of cutbacks. He felt it was time to act. He expected the union to support the community. He said he would hold them to their commitment. Mayor Beydler called the question. Councilman Kavanagh MOVED TO TABLE until the meeting on February 11, 2003, or sooner if the groups came together and Councilwoman Stevens SECONDED the motion. Councilwoman Nicola suggested that the groups meet in the hall while the Council moved on with the rest of the agenda. Mr. McGuire clarified that tabling was not like a continuance. The Council could bring the item back at any time. He stated the work-study could be agendized as a special meeting so that the Council could have an action item on it. Councilwoman Stevens asked Mr. McGuire if the Council tabled this issue and took a break, could those so inclined meet so the issue could be brought back off the table after the break. Mr. McGuire said yes. The item could come back off the table at this meeting or any publicly agendized noticed meeting. Mayor Beydler observed that the Council wanted to move on this item. The Council wanted to see some co-terminus movement. The motion CARRIED unanimously. Mayor Beydler requested that the two groups meet in the jury room. Mayor Beydler called for a recess to enable the two groups to meet. Mayor Beydler recessed the meeting at 8:30 p.m. Mayor Beydler reconvened the regular session at 8:50 p.m. Mayor Beydler noted that the two groups were busily working together in the jury room. They were given the assignment to come back to the Council with a list of three people and a list of five people that they could agree upon. Until then the Council would continue with the meeting agenda AGENDA ITEM #9 - PUBLIC HEARING ON A REQUEST FOR A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THE EXPANSION OF EXISTING FACILITIES AT THE CHAPARRAL CITY WATER COMPANY WELL #10 SITE, LOCATED ON PARCEL "A" WELL SITE, BLOCK 1, FINAL PLAT 103, NORTH OF E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 10 of 19 PALISADES BOULEVARD, EAST OF FOUNTAIN HILLS BOULEVARD, AND WEST OF WESTBY DRIVE, CASE NUMBER SU2002-14. Mayor Beydler recessed the regular session and opened the public hearing at 8:51 p.m. Senior Planner Dana Burkhardt reviewed the special use permit application, staff report, and the site plan through the use of a PowerPoint presentation. He noted that staff had not received any public opposition. Planner Burkhardt stated that the Planning and Zoning Commission was recommending unanimous approval. Councilman Archambault asked if the riprap was there to help drain that area onto that intersection. Planner Burkhardt said that was correct. Mayor Beydler closed the public hearing the 8:56 p.m. AGENDA ITEM #10 - CONSIDERATION OF A SPECIAL USE PERMIT FOR THE EXPANSION OF EXISTING FACILITIES AT THE CHAPARRAL CITY WATER COMPANY WELL #10 SITE, LOCATED ON PARCEL"A"WELL SITE,BLOCK 1,FINAL PLAT 103, CASE NUMBER SU2002-14. Councilman Kavanagh MOVED to approve the special use permit as presented and Councilman Archambault SECONDED the motion. The motion CARRIED unanimously. AGENDA ITEM #11 - CONSIDERATION OF ORDINANCE 03-02 EXTENDING AND INCREASING THE CORPORATE LIMITS OF THE TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS PURSUANT TO THE PROVISIONS OF ARIZONA REVISED STATUTES § 9-471.02 AND AMENDMENTS THERETO, ANNEXING THERETO CERTAIN TERRITORY LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF COPPERWYND DRIVE AND EAGLE RIDGE DRIVE. Public Director Tom Ward reviewed the staff report. He noted that on January 21, 2003, there was a unanimous vote by the City of Scottsdale under their Ordinance 3485 to de-annex this property. He acknowledged that the applicant was not present. He explained that the applicant was asking the Town to annex this property. Director Le Ward stated that staff did not have a problem with the situation. The site plan was displayed for everyone to view. Councilwoman Nicola MOVED to approve Ordinance 03-02 as presented and Councilwoman Stevens SECONDED the motion. Mayor Beydler noted that Karl Finberg (14850 E. Grandview Dr., Units 140 - 240) had submitted a comment card asking that it be read in his absence. Mr. Finberg was against approving this agenda item, as he wanted the Council to consider the long-term quality of life in Fountain Hills. The motion CARRIED unanimously. AGENDA ITEM #12 - COUNCIL ASSESSMENT AND REVIEW OF THE MEETING TO IDENTIFY PROCEDURAL STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES AND DISCUSS POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENTS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS. Mayor Beydler explained the reasoning for the Council's review of their performance. Mayor Beydler acknowledged that he had stepped out of line and moved the question to approve the fire district motion and he had forgotten that Councilman Kavanagh had planned to table it. He apologized to Councilman Kavanagh for his oversight. Councilwoman Stevens said it would be helpful if Mayor Beydler would announce the cutoff time for the public to bring speaker cards forward. She said it was a good idea to announce the speakers so they could start making their way over to the podium. Mayor Beydler asked the clerk to indicate when time was up for collecting comment cards. Councilman Kavanagh suggested that the town clerk coordinate the calling of the names and then the mayor would not be distracted during the discussions. Mayor Beydler proposed that the clerk announce the speakers by last name at the close of collecting cards so that everyone knew when they would speak. This would help expedite the process. Councilwoman Nicola suggested that it would be a better use of staff time if the community development items, which require staff present, were heard first. Then those staff member could leave so that they were fresh in the morning. Mr. Pickering said that was a good suggestion and he was sure that staff would appreciate it. Mayor Beydler said this was the first meeting after the work-study session. He noted that he felt more comfortable with some of the technical issues. He thought because of the Council's prior knowledge, E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 11 of 19 things went more smoothly. Councilman Melendez said it had been a good meeting. He noted that the groups were coming back from their meeting in the jury room. Mr. McGuire suggested a short recess to see what the situation was. Mayor Beydler recessed the meeting at 9:05 j p.m. Mayor Beydler reconvened the regular session at 9:18 p.m. Mayor Beydler noted that there wasn't anything to report at this point. AGENDA ITEM#13- CALL TO THE PUBLIC. Lina Bellenir, 16301 E. Jacklin Dr. She passed on to the town attorney a copy of Title 9, Section 462.02 for his legal opinion. Mr. McGuire stated he was familiar with that section. He did not think that it had been interpreted to apply a right to a specific type of sign. He noted that the public was always free to bring the argument. Ms. Bellenir asked for clarification on that section and suggested that it could be addressed at the public hearing. She asked that a special hearing be set for public input on the a-frame issue. She felt that the facts as presented by Ms. Drake at the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting were inaccurate and distorted. The alternative plan mention by Planner Ruhling was not brought forward for discussion. She asked for additional information on that plan. She wanted to know who was opposing the A-frame signs. At the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting, no one came forward at that meeting. Councilwoman Nicola announced that the Council would be discussing the sign ordinance at the next work-study session on February 11, 2003, at 6 p.m. Mr. McGuire noted that Title 9 required the town to have a public hearing before the Planning and Zoning Commission. He acknowledged that this Council has always had a second public hearing as an additional opportunity for the public to provide input. He stated the work-study would be an additional opportunity to obtain information. He explained that there would be three opportunities for information and two meetings for the public to speak before this issue came to a final vote. Councilman Kavanagh reminded the public that if anyone wished to speak more than three minutes, they would need to notify the town in advance so additional time could be allowed. He stated that he was unaware of an alternate plan. If there were an alternate .40 plan, he would be interested in seeing that as well. Mr. Pickering stated that would be presented at the work-study if there were one. Sharla Shore, 16828#Mirage Crossing Ct. She asked if the public could attend the meeting on February 11, 2003. Mayor Beydler clarified that the public could attend the work-study session. The public would not be able to participate, only to listen. This meeting would provide good background material for the Council so they would be prepared for the issues. He reiterated that the meeting would be held at Town Hall in the Council Chambers at 6 p.m. Sherry Sledge, 16940 Windchime Dr. She asked for clarification on the process to amend the original ordinance. She questioned how long the public would have to prepare for the public hearing as she had some plans and ideas that could generate some revenue for the town. Mr. McGuire explained the typical process. He asked her to contact staff to see if her suggestions could be made as part of the mix of alternatives. Mr. Pickering identified the contact staff member as Denise Ruhling. Mr. McGuire suggested that Ms. Sledge could also contact Director Ward. Mr. McGuire explained that if the Council made a significant amendment to an ordinance, the amended ordinance would have to go back to the Planning and Zoning Commission. Ms. Sledge said the Planning and Zoning Commission had arbitrarily come up with this sign ordinance and had not given the public any reasoning for it other than personal opinions. She asked how the business owners could respond to that. Mr.McGuire said he could talk with her about that after this call to the public. He noted the final public hearing had not been set yet. Councilman Melendez commended Ms. Sledge as a business owner for becoming interested in the political process. Cindy Bonomolo, 15809 E. Cholla Dr. She announced that she and the Mayor had put their past behind them. Although she did not regret what she had done, she liked the idea that they could converse and acknowledge each other publicly. She hoped the public could E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 12 of 19 make peace with them as well. Ms. Bonomolo expressed that she was impressed with the Council's actions tonight at this meeting. They had set an example for the community. She asked that the community unite and get on with the fire district issue. She stated she felt badly over loss of Cassie Hansen. Councilman Archambault asked what the status was on Agenda Item#8. Mayor Beydler noted there wasn't any agreement. Councilman Archambault MOVED to bring back agenda item#8 from the table and Councilwoman Nicola SECONDED the motion. Mr. Hugh Henry stated that he did not think there was agreement but they had tried to get closer. In the spirit to try and move forward, they discussed putting the two lists together with a quantity of five and appeal to the County Board of Supervisors on the basis that boards have been started with five in the past. Then at the nearest possible election, three people would be up for election thereby creating a staggering term. Apparently that was not what the union wanted. Mr. Henry said the committee said yes to Randy Roberts being on the list but that was apparently not an agreeable situation. Councilman Kavanagh asked what was agreed to. Mr. Henry responded that they had not agreed to anything. Councilman Kavanagh questioned what was offered. Mr. Henry replied they offered to merge the two lists and he understood that Mayor Beydler had met with the union and found that situation was not agreeable to them. Mr. Henry listed the names contained on committee's list: Yoder, Cutillo, and Wyman. On the other document that was floating around were the names: Henry,Wyman, and Roberts. He asked to leave it at that. Mayor Beydler explained the reason that five names were brought forward. The attorney, Mr. Miller, who represents the fire districts here in Arizona, had witnessed or been part of some fire boards that started with five members versus three. That was viewed as an alternative. The motion CARRIED unanimously. Steve Springborn said the merging of the two lists was kind of a fallacy. When the fire fighters created the alternative document and started this process, they did so in the manner of being cooperative. He stated they had not submitted a list of names. They simply had one name and proposed two alternates that could be selected by both the town and by the committee. He noted that the fire fighters had five names that they would be willing to agree to: Mr. Roberts,Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Wyman, Mr. Yoder, and Mr. Cutillo. If the committee chose to substitute any of the last three with Mr. Henry or anyone else, the fire fighters would be willing to do so. The document before the council for an impact statement defined what the tax was. If five names were submitted to the County, and the county was to appoint those five as the initial board, it seemed that every aspect that could be changed on this had already been given a direction. There was a tax base established on the impact statement. The group said they wanted to do this for the same price and move forward with Rural Metro. Therefore the town had the fire department, the tax base associated with it, and the Committee to Save Our Community had an obvious majority (3 to 2)of people on the board. He stated the Mayor had raised the question about EMS earlier. Mr. Springborn noted that the fifth name, Mr. Bob Hoffman, was an emergency room nurse. He commented that Mr. Hoffman was not a union nurse who worked at Scottsdale and Shea. He mentioned that Mr. Hoffman was not associated with the fire fighters with the exception that fire fighters brought patients to him. Mr. Springborn reiterated that the Council had a potential compromise in front of them to which the union was willing to agree. Three members would come from the committee and two would be people that they could support. He noted that the Council had a resolution that could be acted upon tonight that would give the community a solution that would allow everyone to come together and do what they needed to do. Councilwoman Nicola stated that she was uncomfortable that Bob Hoffman was not present to confirm that he was willing to be on the board. She felt it was unfair to represent Mr. Hoffman as a completely impartial person since he had circulated petitions. She would not argue with Mr. Hoffman's ability to serve fairly and impartially. Councilwoman Nicola asked Mr. Springborn if he knew that Mr. Hoffman was willing to take this on. Mr. Springborn responded it was his understanding that Mr. Hoffman was willing. Councilman Kavanagh felt the crux of the disagreement or confusion was the status of John Wyman. He noted that when the fire fighters union found out about the committee being formed they were concerned because of the names being brought forward. He was sure that the citizen's group had concerns about the union's names. He had known that it would be an odd number for the fire district (three or five). He felt the only way to get consensus was to have one person that everyone trusted. He stated that he had originally proposed the name of John Wyman to the union and they originally balked. Not because of anything personal, but John Wyman was from the old Council who had voted against the merger of the fire district a year and one-half ago. Therefore, the union was not 100% sure of his neutrality. He had assured the union of Mr. Wyman's neutrality because of his two-year Council E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 13 of 19 association with him. Councilman Kavanagh had thought Mr. Wyman would make a great third neutral party on this board because John Wyman was known as a strong,responsible, and fiscal conservative. With John Wyman as a swing vote no one would take this town down a bad road. He expressed that was why the union came forward with the name of John Wyman. He did not think it was right or promoting unity for the citizen's group to continue to claim that John Wyman was the fire fighters' choice and not theirs. He felt that was where the imbalance was coming from. Councilman Kavanagh MOVED that the Council propose to the County that if the committee wanted a three-person board (and that was all they would accept) that the members should be: John Wyman, Mr. Hoffman, and a person from the citizens' group. If the county was willing to go with a five-member board that the members should be: John Wyman, Mr. Hoffman, Mr. Roberts, and two members of the citizens' group. Mr. Wyman would be the neutral and then the balance would come from one and one or two and two. He preferred the five-member board and said it was the best option of all as Mr. Hoffman, who didn't have any ties to the union, was more of a neutral than a partisan to the fre union. Then the ball would be in the citizens' group court to come back to the Council. Councilwoman Stevens SECONDED the motion. Councilwoman Stevens asked Mr. McGuire if the Council could make this type of a motion. Mr. McGuire responded that he did not know that the town's approval of the impact statement was limited to conditions on one part of it. The approval of the impact statement was taken from the statutory provision of it that said before creation of the district the town would have to buy off on it. He stated that the process was not set in State Statute as to whether or not the Council could condition the impact statement. He explained that if the Council's approval was conditional on a certain mix or make up of that group, then framed that way it would be permissible because that was the way the motion was made. He noted that the resolution did not even come into"force and effect" until the condition precedent had been met. If the condition was not met,the resolution was not effective. He referred to the previous motion from the January 16, 2003, Council meeting. Councilwoman Stevens stated that the Council was in essence giving the committee a big push. Mr. McGuire responded that the Council was stating that in order for the committee to meet the condition precedent to this resolution being approved, the committee needed to do this. He felt that was a better way to frame it. Councilwoman Stevens questioned if the Council could go with either a three or five member board and leave it up to the board to decide. Councilman Kavanagh clarified that the preference was for a five-member board but if that were not acceptable then it would be a three-member board. Councilman Archambault expressed concern that the committee and the union were never going to agree on this name issue. He felt the Council could drag this process out and he was ready to move on it. He suggested that the Council could approve the impact statement as presented and if the committee could expand the membership to five; he was in favor of adding two more names to it. Mayor Beydler commented that when Councilman Kavanagh made his motion several members of the fire district team left the building. He did know the reason. He expressed concern that if the Council were to become too aggressive and mandate the board members, he felt that the citizens' group, who had to do the legwork to collect the signatures, could become depressed and the town would receive nothing. He wanted everyone to remember who had to do the footwork. Mayor Beydler asked to hear from Steve Springborn as to how the fire fighters were going to help the group gather the required 6,500 signatures. Mr. Springborn responded that if the motion on the floor were to pass they would get the signatures. Mayor Beydler asked when. Mr. Springbom stated that would be accomplished in a very short time. They had over 6,500 fire fighters in the State of Arizona that could be pulled from to mobilize and get these signatures. He felt that fire fighters had proven in virtually every community across the state that when they want to get involved in political action, that they had the manpower, knowledge, and expertise to move forward and make it happen. He reiterated that if this motion were to move forward tonight, they would put all of their available resources behind this effort and collect those signatures. Mayor Beydler thanked him for his input. Councilman Kavanagh noted that the inclusive thing about his motion was that each side would have a majority on either a three or five member board. He restated that everyone would have a majority with this motion. Councilman Archambault was concerned that the citizens' group would become frustrated. He was looking at the fact that those were the people who had started this drive and who had put the effort into it. He restated that the 'lir union had provided a list to the citizens' group from which the committee picked one name. He did not understand what the problem was. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 14 of 19 Councilwoman Stevens asked if there was a representative from the Save Our Community Committee that would like to speak to this motion. Mr. Arnold Van Ruitenbeek came forward. He asked that the Council get this process moving. He noted that the committee had worked very hard to come to an agreement with the union. He noted that they had offered to add Randy Robert's name. He was confused where the Council was with all of their motions. He asked the Council to go back and vote on the original motion for the three people that the committee had proposed. He felt the committee would fall apart as they were tired. He was trying to save the situation. Mayor Beydler asked Mr. Van Ruitenbeek what his specific response was to Councilman Kavanagh's motion. Mr. Van Ruitenbeek did not know what Councilman Kavanagh was talking about. Councilman Kavanagh explained he was offering the committee their choice where they would support two of the three members. Mr. Van Ruitenbeek restated he could not follow Councilman Kavanagh's motion; he wanted the council to go back and vote on the original motion with the three men that the committee had proposed. Councilman Kavanagh asked if Mr. Van Ruitenbeek wanted to hear what he was proposing. Mr. Van Ruitenbeek said no, his mind simply did not grasp what Councilman Kavanagh was saying and he did not know how to answer the question. Councilman Kavanagh felt the Council should approve his motion. Mr. Van Ruitenbeek again asked that the original motion be passed and let the people of Fountain Hills have a fair election to decide whether or not they want to add two additional member. He again stated that the committee had agreed to Randy Roberts serving and he hoped he would. He asked that the Council vote on the three names and then the process could move forward. Councilwoman Nicola asked Mr. Van Ruitenbeek to clarify his statement with regard to Mr. Roberts's name. Mr. Van Ruitenbeek stated they had offered to list Mr. Roberts as the fourth name out of the five. Councilman Kavanagh asked if the group supported Mr. Roberts on the three-person board. Mr. Van Ruitenbeek responded the committee wanted to proceed with the original three names. Councilman Kavanagh restated the union's position on the names. If everyone wanted Wyman, couldn't the committee pick another person and then the committee would have two out of the three. Mr. Van Ruitenbeek counted that the three names picked by the committee were elected officials who could draw the broad community support as requested by the Council. itowMayor Beydler understood that the committee really wanted to control the group and they were having some difficulty with the Council changing the composition of that original set of names, as the committee would be the ones out there gathering the signatures. Councilman Kavanagh noted that if the Council represented the town, they had to say no to the group that they could not control everything and there must be a balanced board. He noted that it was not democracy to let the first person that comes in with a petition control everything. Councilman Kavanagh said he could not vote for something that would start the entire controversy all over again. He would not sanction a return of the same old routine. He feared that might have already started. By giving each side a majority that they could support,he did not see how anyone could reasonably oppose that. Councilwoman Nicola favored the original proposal of merging the two lists and to send it forward to the County. She wanted to start with five names as she thought that was a good compromise. Councilwoman Stevens observed that whichever names the Council goes forward with neither party would be happy. She wondered if there was any point to this discussion. She noted that people on the list were not even present now and the Council was being asked to make decisions that concerned them. Without Mr. Henry present, who was the lead figure in the committee, how could he speak to what he would be interested in with a five-person board? Was he even in favor of that option? Mr. Wyman's position had been that he could go or stay on the list. She noted that Mr. Wyman was also gone. She did not know if tonight was the night to go any further with this issue. Councilman Kavanagh stated that merging the two lists was not a compromise for two reasons: 1. One list was the citizens' group and the second list was the group's version of what the fire fighters' list was. 2. The people who control which names come from each list were the citizens' group. Therefore, he felt the fire fighters were essentially boxed out on all aspects of merging the lists. He did not think this was a fair compromise. He explained that the spirit of his motion was to make an offer to both groups. He stated that the Council demanded agreement with no one having total control. He wanted that communicated to both groups. If the groups agree, the motion would be passed and forwarded on to the County. If they don't agree, then that would be it. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 15 of 19 Councilman Melendez asked how long a time frame would be given, if the Council approved his motion. Councilman Kavanagh hoped that the groups could get back to the Council by February 11, 2003. He did not want to waste time. Councilman Archambault asked what would happen if the committee walked away. The town would be left with nothing. He stated he would rather give more credence to the committee as they had put all of INF the effort into this process. He felt the Council needed to take that into consideration. These were Fountain Hills' citizens who put this together and started the ball rolling. Why was the council having a discussion on a union? The union was not made up of all Fountain Hills' citizens. The union represented only about eight citizens who work for Rural Metro and live here. He asked that the Council put things into perspective. He did not want the citizens' group to walk away. Mayor Beydler noted it was obvious that most had left. Councilman Kavanagh did not know how many people belonged to the citizens' group. He said most who he had heard talking had aligned themselves with the old fire board. He noted that the old fire board members were present when the citizens' group was speaking. He did not think that the group was a totally random cross-section of concerned Fountain Hills' residents. He noted that the fire fighters realized that and that was why they were so upset. Councilman Kavanagh did not think that the citizens' group should be characterized as a bunch of new idealistic people who stepped up to do good. Obviously some were, but some had come with preconceived ideas and that was ok too. He welcomed their involvement but stated the group needed to make it inclusive and not try and control. Councilman Archambault reminded the Council that the citizens' group came with a list of signatures representing about 900 citizens that were backing this group. He suggested that the Council go look at that list to see how big the group was. He noted that the group was growing everyday. Councilwoman Nicola disagreed with Councilman Kavanagh. She agreed that this had been a long ongoing process. The union stepped in a couple weeks ago to try to help. She reiterated that the motion on January 16, 2003, did not require that there be a unanimous decision on this impact statement. The Council had asked that all of the stakeholders be consulted. She felt that they were consulted. The Council now needed to step up to the plate and make a decision that was best for the community irrespective of personalities. Councilwoman Stevens quoted from the minutes stating that the board would be represented by the stakeholders not consulted by the stakeholders. She hoped that both parties would get together as they must agree to this and if they don't the process goes nowhere. This would put the ball in their court. Councilman Melendez discussed that he favored moving forward on this tonight. Vice Mayor Ralphe said if the Council acted tonight, they would be doing a disservice to the business of town government, fire protection, and to the citizens in general. The Council would be acting tonight without one of the major stakeholders present, the citizens' group. Vice Mayor Ralphe did not think that the Council could act on that the position tonight that put the Council on one side or the other. The wise thing to do was to back a plan that was democratic and fair that would give representation to both groups. She stated that Councilman Kavanagh's motion was fair. Mayor Beydler commented that the Council was trying very hard to make the right decision. That was why the Council was devoting a significant amount of time to the discussion, as this was a huge issue. The Council was trying to reach a consensus point. Councilman Archambault felt that the Council should have gone down this road at the last council meeting. Now the Council was changing the rules on the group. He did not think that was fair to the citizens' group. Vice Mayor Ralphe commented that the direction given to the group at the last council meeting was to come back and bring fair representation and unity. She did not agree that the Council was trying to change the rules tonight. She felt the Council was focusing on the application of that principal. Councilman Kavanagh felt that the citizens group had not heard what the Council had said at the last Council meeting about wanting agreement from both sides. He referred to the January 16, 2003, minutes where he clarified the motion's caveat that there be representation of all the interested stakeholders as applying to the fire district's board of directors. He stated that the three names that the citizens' group were proposing was something that he would never propose. He favored tonight's inclusive motion where everyone agreed on a majority of the board. He felt that was fair. Arnold Van Ruitenbeek,member of the Committee to Save Our Community He discussed that Councilman Kavanagh continued to question the committee's motives. He again asked that the Council approve the original resolution tonight and move forward. Frank Doolittle, 17206 E. Parlin Dr. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 16 of 19 He spoke in support of Councilman Kavanagh's motion for the five-member fire board Carolyn McClure, 16212 Inca Dr. (member of the Committee to Save Our Community) She questioned if the union could legally collect signatures as she thought circulators had to be a resident. Mr. McGuire stated that he could not give legal advice to someone other than his client, the Town. Ms. McClure spoke in support of Councilwoman Nicola's idea. She felt the committee would go for the published list. She was supportive of a five-member board. Councilwoman Nicola clarified the issue of who could be a petition circulator. Councilman Kavanagh clarified that this motion did not propose that there would be a guaranteed union seat on the fire board. The Council simply wanted a balanced board with people with whom the union could be comfortable. The Council was looking for consensus and not for special interest groups controlling the pocket books. He would not support that. William John Barnicoat,Jr., 16352 Crystal Point He acknowledged spending five days out collecting signatures on those petitions and through conversation with the public he contacted; he felt the public was ignorant of the facts. Some of the various responses were: o The public did not think the council would make a decision that was worthwhile and the public did not have any confidence in this Council o The public will not vote for anyone associated with Rural Metro or the union for the fire board as they think that would be a conflict of interest He pointed out that union guys and fire boards did not need to be the same thing. Some thought that this time next year,Fountain Hills would be Scottsdale. Steve Springborn He stated that the fire fighters were present to work through this issue and do what was best for the town. He confirmed they agreed with Councilman Kavanagh's proposal, as everyone would have a majority. If Mr. Wyman created a problem, then he would concede that the fire fighters would support a list that had one name that they supported and two supported by the committee (on a three-person board) or two names that they would recommend and three supported by the committee (on a five-person board). This would create a majority for the Committee to L. Save Our Community in every possible angle. Roy Kinsey, 17120 E. Fairway He sensed the Council was being pushed because of timing. He reminded everyone that the council had called for primary property tax vote as an insurance policy. He had thought the whole concept of calling for that vote was to allow people time to get together and form the fire district but not under the pressure of time. The emphasis could be placed on just getting that primary tax passed to carry the ball until the fire district was formed. Councilman Archambault said the Council was pressured for time because the resolution had set a December 31st deadline. Councilman Melendez asked Mr. McGuire if the impact statement met the legal requirements. Mr. McGuire responded yes, assuming that the exhibits were in the Town's possession and he was comfortable that that there was co-terminus borders. He felt that then it met the minimum standards set forth in the Statutes. Councilman Melendez asked Mr. Pickering if the impact statement met the financial dollars he was looking for. Mr. Pickering said yes when you take into account that all current contracts would continue and that would be the type of fire service that would be offered. His only question was a preliminary one. The question was one of assets and how they would be sold to the district. He felt it was premature to get into that discussion and should wait until after the district was formed. Councilman Melendez asked for clarification that the impact statement assured that Rural Metro would be kept on. Mr. Pickering said he did not see that in the impact statement as it only gave a dollar amount. Mr. Pickering noted that they said that tonight but the impact statement did not state how fire service would be delivered. Councilman Melendez pointed out that the group had acknowledged that they would keep the Rural Metro fire fighters in existence now. Mr. Pickering agreed that Mr. Henry that had said that but it was not in the impact statement. Councilwoman Stevens asked if the Town or the committee was required to put down any kind of a bond. Did the town have any obligation? Mr. McGuire said there wasn't any financial obligation on the town's part. Councilwoman Stevens asked what happened if the committee did not get the signatures. Mr. McGuire responded that the County Board of Supervisors could not hold that second hearing until they were presented with a sufficient number of signatures. Mayor Beydler said he could not support Councilman Kavanagh's motion. He thought the groundwork was being laid for percentage representation, which he believed was wrong. He was not comfortable E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 17 of 19 with planned gridlock. This might build into the system obstacles and roadblocks, which might impede the process. He wanted to empower the community and the citizens' group. The motion was restated. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: Councilman Melendez Nay Vice Mayor Raiphe Aye Councilman Archambault Nay Councilwoman Stevens Aye Councilman Kavanagh Aye Mayor Beydler Nay Councilwoman Nicola Nay The motion FAILED on a vote of 3—4. Councilman Archambault asked to move the question on the original motion on the caveat that Mr. McGuire reviews and approves exhibits A and B to ensure that the boundaries were co-terminus with direction to staff to direction to the county to move forward. Vice Mayor Raiphe questioned how the Council could go forward without the main players from the committee. She was worried about their interest at this time. She wanted to hear from committee members before voting. She acknowledged that they were not present. Councilwoman Nicola said it was the committee's impact statement that was being discussed on which they had spent many hours. She did not expect that they would stay and champion it all the way through. The Council was calling for a vote on the impact statement as it was presented. She did not think that she needed to hear from the committee anymore tonight. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: Councilwoman Stevens Nay Councilwoman Nicola Aye Councilman Melendez Aye Vice Mayor Ralphe Nay Mayor Beydler Aye Councilman Kavanagh Nay Councilman Archambault Aye The motion CARRIED on a vote of 4—3. AGENDA ITEM#14-ADJOURNMENT. Councilman Archambault MOVED that the Council adjourn and Councilman Kavanagh SECONDED the motion, which CARRIED unanimously. The meeting adjourned at 10:40 p.m. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS By: '}. `t Jon rydler, ayor ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: Bevelyn J. Bender,Town Clerk E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 18 of 19 CERTIFICATION ‘lr, I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular and Executive Session held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills on the 6th day of February 2003. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 6th day of March 2003. 7 /CV(' Q?_Oe, (.2",(...4_ Bevelyn J. Bend'er,Town Clerk L E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2003\Regular and Executive Session 2-6-03.doc Page 19 of 19 J