HomeMy WebLinkAbout2003.1218.TCRM.Minutes TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR SESSION OF THE
FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
DECEMBER 18,2003
Mayor Wally Nichols called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. Following the invocation by Mayor Nichols, roll call
was taken.
ROLL CALL — Present for roll call were the following members of the Fountain Hills Town Council:
Councilman Archambault, Mayor Nichols, Councilwoman Stevens, Councilman Kavanagh, Vice Mayor Melendez,
Councilwoman Nicola, Councilwoman Ralphe, Town Attorney Andrew McGuire, Town Manager Tim Pickering,
Planner Denise Lacey, Human Resource Administrator Joan McIntosh, Judge Ted Armbruster and Town Clerk Bev
Bender were also present.
CALL TO THE PUBLIC
There were no citizens wishing to speak at this time.
CONSENT AGENDA
Mayor Nichols read the following consent agenda items (1 —3):
AGENDA ITEM#1 —CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THE MEETING MINUTES OF 11/20/03 AND
12/04/03.
AGENDA ITEM #2 — CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THREE PARTICIPATION AGREEMENTS
WITH MCO,SUNCOR AND SUN TECH FOR VARIOUS TRAFFIC SIGNALS.
AGENDA ITEM #3 — CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THE PLACEMENT OF A SIGN AND
kw ARTWORK, A TOWN-OWNED SCULPTURE, AT KIWANIS PARK AT THE REQUEST OF THE
SUNSET KIWANIS.
Councilman Archambault MOVED to approve the Consent Agenda as read and Councilman Ralphe SECONDED
the motion.
A roll call vote was taken with the following results:
Councilwoman Stevens Aye
Vice Mayor Melendez Aye
Councilman Kavanagh Aye
Councilwoman Nicola Aye
Mayor Nichols Aye
Councilwoman Ralphe Aye
Councilman Archambault Aye
The motion CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY(7 to 0).
AGENDA ITEM #4 — CONSIDERATION OF APPOINTING FOUR INDIVIDUALS TO FILL THE
VACANCIES ON THE PARKS AND RECREATION COMMISSION.
Mayor Nichols MOVED that the following three individuals be appointed for three-year terms on the Parks and
Recreation Commission: Naomi Bryant; Curt Cornum; and Joe Pinter. Councilwoman Ralphe SECONDED the
motion, which CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY(7 to 0).
Mayor Nichols also MOVED that Lauren Conway be appointed as the Youth Representative for the Parks and
Recreation Commission for a one-year term. Councilwoman Stevens SECONDED the motion, which CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY(7 to 0).
AGENDA ITEM#5—UPDATE ON TOWN CENTER PHASE II.
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Town Manager Tim Pickering advised that Charles Davis, representing Kitchell CEM, the Town's pre-design
services firm, was present and would highlight a brief presentation on this agenda item. He explained that the firm
was hired to assist the Town in the process of selecting an architect and contractor for the Civic Center Phase II
project, which would be located where the Community Center and the library buildings currently exist. He added
that this would house a police station where the Sheriffs would work, and the courts, Council Chambers, the Senior
Center and Parks and Recreation and other administrative offices. He noted that the scope of work included the
preparation of a block diagram, budgeting, and site considerations.
Mr. Davis addressed the Council and noted that the company's project engineer, Matt Chappel, was also present.
He explained that during the pre-design phases of the project, they attempted to characterize the building in a
number of ways. He added that a number of the sketches would show some block diagrams that were roughly to
scale and show how the building could go together. He emphasized that they were not designing the building and
that that responsibility would be left up to the architect and contractor design build team that would be selected at a
future time.
Discussion ensued relative to the extensive amount of time that was spent discussing various needs with the Town
Manager and department heads; the fact that staff followed up by obtaining initial input regarding space needs from
each department/entity in an effort to develop a block plan and prepare budgeting considerations; discussions
regarding adjustments to the block plan; additional meetings and discussions to identify results of the block plan,
budgeting considerations, and related concerns; establishing a date to update the Council on the project and a final
meeting that took place on December 11t with Charles Davis, Matt Chappell, the Town Manager, and staff to
revisit and review the block plan.
Mr. Davis stated that the directive provided to them was to provide information that showed a two-story building
consisting of approximately 30,000 to 32,000 square feet. He referred to diagrams displayed in the Chambers,
which showed a very basic sketch of the building, parking areas, and the future building location on the far end of
the site that was to be reserved should additional space be needed in the future. He noted that the first and second
floors of the building would be approximately equal in terms of size and commented on the three building entry
points that were provided.
Mr. Davis informed the Council that block diagrams had been prepared, a budget had been characterized, a space
program had been developed and a budget was in place. He added that the next step in the process would be to
send out an RFP in January for design-build teams (architect, engineer and contractor) who would provide a
synopsis of their qualifications and the Town would select the team that they believed would best be able to meet
the needs of the Town of Fountain Hills. He added that sometime in February, they would expect that the team
would be "on board"negotiating a contract and the goal would be to have the building ready for occupancy in mid-
2005.
In response to a question from Councilman Kavanagh, Mr. Davis provided information relative to the various
square footages that had been allotted to the various departments. He noted that approximately 11,800 square feet
would be dedicated to the administrative and Council Chamber areas, approximately 4,700 square feet would be
used by Public Works, approximately 1,600 square feet had been allocated for Parks and Recreation, approximately
2,800 square feet for the municipal court, approximately 5,600 square feet for the Sheriff's and DPS activities, and
approximately 4,600 square feet for senior activities. He reported that the approximate gross square footage of the
entire building was between 32,000 and 33,000 square feet.
Mr. Davis stated that the Senior Center had requested a little over 5,100 square feet initially and added that
additional space existed to the east to accommodate expansion if necessary in the future. He added that depending
upon how the design team put the parking lot together, space would either be reserved to the south of the building
or parking would be decreased to allow for expansion in that direction. He discussed problems associated with
expanding to the south.
Mr. Pickering commented that the future building site identified in the plan was for a future potential separate
senior center. Mr. Davis noted that the total square footage proposed for the first floor of the additional future
building was approximately 6,000 gross square feet.
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Mr. Pickering added effort was expended to keep the costs down and said some assumptions were made to which
they were attempting to adhere. First, that the future space that would be needed be built now, for example in the
sheriff's section, which at some point would house more officers. He stated that building a separate Council
Chambers versus the Court Chambers could also cut costs. He explained that the court had requested a very small
L. courtroom and said they were trying to avoid problems that arise when both entities need to use the same space.
Mayor Nichols asked whether it was possible to put a patio outside for the seniors and was advised that it would be
relatively inexpensive to accomplish. The Mayor asked that the patio be placed on the list. He also commented
that if the expansion space was at the end of the sheriffs area with a door leading to the Senior Activity Center, if
the seniors needed to use that space prior to the sheriff's department, they could possibly use the space on a
temporary basis.
In response to a question from Councilman Kavanagh, Mr. Pickering advised that the 5,600 square feet of space
allocated for the sheriff's department would be sufficient at build out and the additional needed space was included
in that square footage amount. Councilman Kavanagh stated that if there was no need for the additional building in
the future,the Town could sell the building site. Mr. Pickering agreed but clarified that the site was very small with
no parking and a joint use agreement would be required for the parking.
Councilwoman Stevens said that she thought the seniors wanted their own building and questioned why they were
providing space for them now although down the road they might build their own facility. Mr. Pickering responded
that although they would like the seniors to have their own separate building, they could not due to costs and
commented on the extra expenses associated with building them a separate facility. He added that in the unlikely
event that they obtained grant funds within the timeframe they were talking about,this would be a consideration but
at the current time they did not anticipate that happening and that was why the space was included for them in the
building. Mr. Pickering confirmed that the decision would need to be made by February.
Councilwoman Stevens noted that the space allocated for administration and Council Chambers was about twice
the amount anyone else was given and said it seemed to be more space than what was needed. She stated that if
cuts were made they could be in this area.
Discussion ensued relative to the fact that a large portion of the administration space that was multi-use and would
be used by people other than those in administration; public versus private spaces and the fact that much of that
depended on operational needs and desires and the architect would work with department heads and others to
determine needs; the assumption that a stairwell going to the second floor would be built to accommodate the
public's presence because there would be the administration and public works counter and possibly the park's
counter in that area; the fact that plans currently called for the placement of the public areas on the second floor
because a some uses must be located on the first floor, namely the sheriff's operations and the seniors' area; and the
fact that the proposal was not"set in stone"and changes could be made when they got into the actual design phase.
Mr. Pickering provided justification for providing space for the sheriffs department in the building in terms of
increased cost and future flexibility. He felt it would provide the town with an edge during MCSO contract
negotiations.
Councilman Kavanagh asked what the size of the Council Chambers was at the current time and Mr. Davis advised
that the room was approximately 40 feet by 46 feet (1,840 square feet) with a current and planned seating capacity
of 120. He added that 2,800 square feet was being proposed. In response to a question from Councilman
Kavanagh, Judge Armbruster advised that the court rarely experienced overflow crowds and did not require the
amount of space it currently utilized. Mr. Pickering clarified that the figure for the courtroom proposal was much
smaller and would house only 20 to 30 people.
Mr. Davis stated that he was not sure what the current court office space was and Judge Armbruster responded that
they requested less than what they currently utilized. Councilman Kavanagh said that he would like to know what
the court's office space was now compared to what was being planned. Mr. Pickering stated he had that
information and added that the court figures were very similar with the only difference being the addition of a
separate court so the Council Chambers no longer would be used as a courtroom. Mr. Pickering said he would
provide that information to the Council and Councilman Kavanagh added that he would reserve comment until he
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obtained all the statistics. Mayor Nichols reminded the Council that this agenda item was to be an update on
building concepts as this point.
Mr. Pickering noted that some of the reasons why it was beneficial to have a courtroom separate from the Council
Chambers were security and type of use and the need for a multi-purpose conference room. Councilwoman
Stevens questioned the logistics of placing this room upstairs. Mr. Pickering responded that an elevator would
provide public access.
Mayor Nichols requested on Councilman Kavanagh's behalf that John O'Flynn, President of Senior Services, be
called up to the podium.
Mr. O'Flynn, 16538 E. Sullivan, responded to questions from Councilman Kavanagh and said that the seniors had
requested 5,000 square feet in space plus a 1,500 to 2,000 square foot patio. He added that they currently operated
out of 4,700 square feet. Councilman Kavanagh stated that his concern was that the proposed 4,600 square feet was
less than what the seniors were currently utilizing. Mr. O'Flynn stated that they could certainly use the additional
400 square feet that was requested.
Mr. Davis explained that when the architect came on board, spaces would be assembled more efficiently and said
for that reason he was not sure that the square footage would end up being what was currently shown.
Mayor Nichols pointed out that the seniors' space was adjacent to the sheriff's department, which contained a large
amount of expansion space. He reiterated that a door could be built from the senior center into the planned
expansion space and used on a temporary basis.
Councilman Kavanagh said that he had no problem with that as long as the seniors were provided 5,000 square feet
if they did not get their own building.
Mayor Nichols thanked everyone for their input.
Nird
AGENDA ITEM #6 — CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING ORDINANCE 03-26 AMENDING THE
FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN CODE, CHAPTER 7, BUILDINGS AND BUILDING REGULATIONS,
ARTICLE 7-8 COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND ENGINEERING FEE SCHEDULE,RELATING TO
GRAND OPENING SIGN PERMITS.
Planner Denise Lacey noted that this case came before the Council on November 6th at the request of a member of
the Council to look at the possibility of reducing or eliminating the banner permit fee, which was technically
referred to as the Grand Opening Permit Fee, and currently costs $25.00. She said that based on the analysis
performed by staff, it was determined that the fee was in line with, or lower than, most other municipalities in the
surrounding as well as other areas. She added that on November 6th, staff recommended that the idea of reducing or
eliminating the fee not be pursued but the Council requested at that time that an ordinance be drafted to eliminate
the $25.00 fee and that it be waived only upon an initial Grand Opening. She explained that staff felt it would be
best to attach it to a business license permit, which would let staff know that it was a new business.
Ms. Lacey clarified that the proposed ordinance would eliminate the Grand Opening Sign Permit fee for the initial
Grand Opening of a new business when linked to the first issuance of a business license. She added that the waiver
would not apply to businesses' change in location, ownership or management.
hi response to a question from Councilman Kavanagh, Ms. Lacey said that staff did not attach any type of
timeframe and added that it would be in line with obtaining a business license.
Councilman Kavanagh MOVED and Vice Mayor Melendez SECONDED a motion to approve Ordinance 03-26.
Councilman Kavanagh noted that the exemption basically said to new businesses "Welcome to the Town." He
added that the gesture had minimal costs associated with it and would go a long way towards building good will
with the business community.
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Councilwoman Ralphe pointed out that staff recommended denial and added that the $25.00 fee was actually less
than the$35.00 it actually cost the Town to process the license. She also noted the annual fiscal impact fee of$300
that would be lost and stated that the time was not appropriate to reduce Town revenues.
Councilwoman Stevens concurred with Councilwoman Ralphe's remarks and said she would actually support
increasing the fees. She stressed the importance of everyone paying his or her fair share.
Councilman Kavanagh commented that since the demise of the property tax, the Town's major source of revenue
has been its businesses. He added that anything they could do to encourage and help those businesses should be
done because it helped the entire community.
There were no citizens wishing to speak on this agenda item.
A roll call vote was taken with the following results.
Councilwoman Stevens Nay
Councilwoman Nicola Nay
Vice Mayor Melendez Aye
Councilwoman Ralphe Nay
Mayor Nichols Aye
Councilman Kavanagh Aye
Councilman Archambault Nay
The motion FAILED for lack of a majority vote (3 to 4).
AGENDA ITEM #7 — CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING UNITED HEALTHCARE AS THE TOWN'S
HEALTH CARE PROVIDER FOR 2004.
Joan McIntosh,the Town's Human Resources Administrator, addressed the Council relative to this agenda item and
noted that last year at this time she recommended that the Town switch from the Mayo Health Plan insurance to
Blue Cross/Blue Shield, which the Council approved. She said that on November 1st of each year the Town
received renewal rates from its current insurance carrier and reported that the rate increase for 2004 was 36%. She
noted that the Town budgeted a 15% increase. Ms. McIntosh advised that staff solicited quotes from other health
insurance carriers in Arizona, which were reviewed by the Benefits Committee, and then forwarded on to
department members for their input as well. She advised that it was the recommendation of the Benefits Committee
to recommend to the Town Manager that United Healthcare be the health care provider for the Town of Fountain
Hills for 2004. She noted that the company was able to provide quality coverage with a more reasonable 8.5%
increase over 2003 premium amounts ($23,000 annually).
Discussion ensued relative to the fact that the coverage that would be provided by United Healthcare would be
similar to that provided by Blue Cross/Blue Shield, although there would be a slightly higher deductible and co-pay
for prescriptions; and the fact that there was also improved coverage in other areas, such as no life-time maximum,
no pre-existing condition clause; no pre-certification was required for tests, and a 24-hour nurse hotline would be in
place.
_ In response to a question from Councilwoman Stevens regarding the possibility of obtaining a multi-year quote,
Ms. McIntosh advised that despite staff's efforts to obtain even a two-year quote, the companies were unwilling to
cooperate. She explained that they were concerned about the risks associated with companies that might have
extremely high claims during a year.
Ms. McIntosh confirmed for Vice Mayor Melendez that the proposed costs were in the "ballpark"for municipalities
of their size. She noted that the Town currently paid 100% of single-employee coverage premiums and added that
if the current proposal were approved, that would amount to $314.41 a month per employee. She emphasized the
importance of offering new employees top-notch medical programs. Vice Mayor Melendez asked how important
was this benefit to potential new hires. Ms. McIntosh stated that health insurance was on the top of the list along
lw with retirement benefits.
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Councilman Archambault thanked Ms. McIntosh and the members of the Benefits Committee for their input and
hard work. He stated that the proposed increase was extremely reasonable. In response to a request from the
Councilmember, Ms. McIntosh explained that the Benefits Committee was made up of members from each Town
department and said that they met once a month. She added that in the future they would also serve as an Employee
Services Committee and focus on other areas.
Ms. McIntosh indicated her intention to pass the compliments on to the members of the Committee.
Councilman Kavanagh asked whether employees could go out of the network and Ms. McIntosh advised that with
United Healthcare they were allowed to do so but they would have to pay a higher out of pocket cost.
Ms. McIntosh advised that she had not heard any negative feedback relative to the services provided by United
Healthcare.
Mayor Nichols commended Ms. McIntosh and the members of the Committee for pursuing a switch to another
carrier because of the difficulties associated with such action. Ms. McIntosh said she hoped that the Town would
be able to remain with United Healthcare in 2005.
Councilman Archambault MOVED and Councilwoman Ralphe SECONDED a motion to approve United
Healthcare as the Town's health care provider for 2004.
There were no citizens wishing to speak on this item.
The motion CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY(7 to 0).
AGENDA ITEM#8—CONSIDERATION OF ORDINANCE 03-21,APPROVING A TEXT AMENDMENT
TO THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN CODE, CHAPTER 6,ANIMALS,RELATING TO THE LICENSING
AGE FOR DOGS AND LICENSE PENALTIES.
Mr. Pickering advised that this item could have been placed on the consent agenda because its purpose was to
comply with State law, to reduce the time in which dog licenses had to be obtained from four months to three. 1410,
In response to a question from Councilwoman Nicola, Mr. Pickering said that there would be a 30-day effective
date. Councilwoman Nicola said her concern was that if someone purchased a dog yesterday and checked the
Town Code and found out they had four months in which to obtain the license, when they went to get the license,
and the dog was four months old,they found out that the timeframe had changed to three months and they would be
fined a$22 penalty.
Mr. Pickering said that the Town must come into compliance with the State law but perhaps an extended effective
date might be implemented. He suggested that Town Attorney Andrew McGuire speak on this issue. He also
clarified that the State increased the penalty from$2.00 to$22.00.
Mr. McGuire added that the new guidelines and penalty went into effect in July after the last Legislative session.
Mr. Pickering advised that licensing would have to be paid within 90 days and therefore the dog could be up to six
months old and would still be in compliance if they came in. He emphasized that there were three months of
leniency in which to pay the fee, 90 days after the dog's 3rd month birthday or 6 months actually.
Councilwoman Stevens MOVED and Councilman Archambault SECONDED a motion to approve Ordinance No.
03-21.
There were no citizens present wishing to speak on this item.
A roll call vote was taken with the following results:
Councilwoman Stevens Aye
Councilwoman Nicola Nay
Vice Mayor Melendez Aye
Councilwoman Ralphe Aye
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Mayor Nichols Aye
Councilman Kavanagh Aye
Councilman Archambault Aye
,,. The motion CARRIED BY MAJORITY VOTE(6 to 1).
AGENDA ITEM #9 — CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION 2003-68, APPROVING AN
INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE FOUNTAIN HILLS UNIFIED SCHOOL
DISTRICT RELATING TO PROGRAMMING ON CHANNEL 99.
Town Attorney Andrew McGuire advised that this was the continuation of a discussion that occurred a while back
regarding Channel 11 and the appropriate programming for that channel. He said that when staff pursued making
Channel 11 more "vibrant," it became apparent that the programming of that channel was not adhering to strict
"government only" guidelines in place under the licensing agreement and under the Federal Cable Act. He advised
that staff immediately went to work to remedy this situation. In talking with the cable company, they discovered
that Channel 99, which had been set aside for the school district, had not been utilized for quite some time. He
added that the cable company was willing to provide Channel 99 for use by the school district and commented on
previous discussions that had taken place regarding having the school district assume the responsibility for all of the
programming on that channel.
Mr. McGuire explained that in accordance with the Federal Cable Act, the user and the message must be consistent
with the channel requirements and in this case, Channel 99, the user, would have to be educational related. He
added that the license identified the Fountain Hills' Unified School District as the educational program user. He
further stated that the proposed agreement would take the decision for what was educational content and transfer it
to the school district to allow them to directly program for themselves. He noted that thanks to Councilman
Archambault and many volunteers, facilities were available for them to do their own programming. He pointed out
that the one issue that had not been included in the agreement because it was raised following the drafting of the
document was how the Town would utilize the students' help in the programming facilities that they have. He said
that staff could craft some "cooperative nature" language into the document, as long as at the end of the day the
school district made the final decisions regarding what was aired on Channel 99. He added that the Town would
still make decisions regarding programming for Channel 11 and the two would remain segregated.
In response to a question from Councilman Archambault, Mr. McGuire clarified that Cox Communications made
Channel 99 available to the Town for educational programming for the school district. He agreed that this would
give the school district the ability to make decisions regarding the programming for Channel 99. He added that the
agreement was drafted so that either the school district produced programming and delivered it to the Town to be
placed on Channel 99 for them, when the Town was technically able to do so, or if possible, the school district
could directly program from their facility.
Councilman Archambault stated the opinion that this would serve as a forward motion for the school district and
provide a much-needed ability.
Vice Mayor Melendez commented on the fact that a letter was sent out to various groups notifying them that as of
January 1, 2004 the Town would no longer post non-government related announcements on Channel 11. He said
this included churches, the Kiwanis organization, and other community groups and the purpose was to comply with
the Federal Cable Act of 1995. He questioned whether the Town of Fountain Hills had been in violation since 1995
and Mr. McGuire responded that the Town had in fact been in violation since the agreement was amended in 1995.
He explained that prior to that time there were three channels; public access, government, and education and Cox
lobbied strongly to amend the license to include education and government only.
The Vice Mayor stated that over a year ago, he and then Vice Mayor Ralphe requested that the Town move forward
to implement a new type of use for Channel 11, to change it, make it more interesting, and help the young men and
women in the schools learn about government. He added the opinion that this venue might encourage students to
pursue future careers in government. He said the Council worked very hard with the school district to develop a
new system that would provide interesting as well as educational programs. He said that he was disappointed to
recently learn that they were unable to do this and explained to citizens that changing Channel 11 involved
complicated legal issues. He added,however,that he believed the Channel 99 concept might work instead.
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Mr. McGuire pointed out that students could still be involved in assisting the Town with creating government
programming. He added that students could help out, for example, in filming a story about law enforcement or the
City Council itself. He said that there were a number of talented citizens who were interested in volunteering and
assisting the Town in creating more government programs. He stated that they could also "tap into" some of the 4116)
other government programs in other municipalities.
In response to a request for clarification from Councilman Kavanagh,Mr. McGuire advised that the community and
church announcements would not be aired on Channel 99 unless the school district determined that it was
educational for the district and therefore appropriate to do so. He said that criteria for both the educational user and
the material must be met.
Councilwoman Ralphe stated the opinion that many citizens, organizations, and churches were going to miss out on
the opportunity to air events and information on Channel 11 and added that she was disappointed as well. She
added on a positive note, however, that she and Councilman Melendez were asked at a Council Retreat to work
towards improving the programming for Channel 11 and said although progress has been slow, it was occurring and
they would continue to move ahead on this important issue.
Mayor Nichols commented on the fact that letters were sent out to the various users of Channel 11 informing them
of the proposed changes and providing other contact information. He added that there were many current users
who would not receive a letter and would wonder what happened as of January 1st when the announcements were
no longer aired. He requested that staff initiate action to inform those citizens of the upcoming policy change and
provide them an explanation as to why this was occurring. Mr. Pickering concurred with the Mayor's suggestion
and said staff would pursue this matter. He suggested that a notice be posted on Channel 11 advising of the user
policy change.
There were no citizens present wishing to speak on this item.
Councilwoman Ralphe MOVED and Councilwoman Nicola SECONDED a motion to approve Resolution 2003-
68. The motion CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY(7 to 0).
AGENDA ITEM #10 CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION 2003-72, APPROVING AN
INTERGOVERNMENTAL AGREEMENT WITH THE SALT RIVER PIMA-MARICOPA INDIAN
COMMUNITY FOR PROPOSITION 202 FUNDING.
Town Manager Tim Pickering stated that he personally met with representatives of the Salt River Pima-Maricopa
Indian Community relative to this issue. He noted that the Council had previously discussed this policy question
and the desire of the Council was not to continue to serve as simply a "pass through" for the funds. He said that the
discussion involved whether or not the Town should simply pass on the monies to someone else or become more
involved in deciding where the funds would go. He pointed out that Proposition 202 stated that the use should be
for governmental activities.
Mr. Pickering stated that this was the first time the community had undertaken the distribution of the funds and
were under a "time crunch" because the end of September was the end of their fiscal year and they were mandated
by the State to distribute the funds. He reported that the Indian Community requested that the Town distribute the
$25,000 for the van for the Boys & Girls Club and, although the check has been cut, the Council indicated during
previous discussions that they were not willing to accept it at that time. He added that they made a change because
during the meeting the representatives of the community said that they were willing to abide by a policy in the
future that stated any requests from Fountain Hills would first come from Fountain Hills and not from them down
to Fountain Hills. He noted that the ordinance reflected this change and said this one time would be the only
exception and serve as a good will gesture towards a relationship with the community. He reiterated that the policy
from now on would be that the Town would be the requestor of funds.
In response to a question from Councilwoman Nicola, Mr. Pickering said that it was his understanding that the
process would operate on a relationship basis and added that because of the Town's good relationship with the ,
community, it was more likely that funding requests for Fountain Hills would be approved before requests from
other municipalities such as Prescott. He said he did not believe that the "slate would be wiped clean" each time,
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but rather a continuing positive relationship would result in future funding. He added that funding would focus on
the Indian Community's neighbors rather than outside areas, although nothing was written in stone.
Councilwoman Nicola asked how close the Town was to adopting a policy regarding this issue. Mr. Pickering
responded that with the adoption of the proposed resolution, a policy was being adopted as far as the Salt River-
Pima Maricopa Indian Community, that requests to that entity would come through the Council first. He added that
Fountain Hills, Mesa, and Phoenix were working through the Arizona League of Cities & Towns to develop a
formal written consistent policy for all of the cities and towns.
Councilwoman Ralphe pointed out that the staff report reflected a fiscal impact to the Town in the amount of
$2,330 and Mr. Pickering explained that those monies had already been spent on legal and other staff time. He
noted that for the Attorney's Office,approximately $1,500 of that represented legal expenses that were paid out.
Vice Mayor Melendez spoke in support of approving the resolution because from a legal standpoint, nothing could
prevent the Town from doing so; from a public policy standpoint, this represented a one-time benefit to the youth of
Fountain Hills and said the positive relationship that the Mayor initiated with the various Indian nations was
commendable and he would not like to see that change in any way.
Councilwoman Stevens said that she agreed with the Vice Mayor's comments but added she had a concern about
the appropriateness of the distribution of the funds to a non-governmental agency. She stated that because this was
a "one time issue," a clause was included in the contract that said the Town would not be liable and she hoped that
was true. She also asked when the Council was going to discuss what the Town's policy was going to be regarding
this matter.
Mr. McGuire responded that the Indian community was just as "skittish" as the Town as far as having complete
indemnity and said that the agreed upon language was as far as they would go. He said he was comfortable with
the "one shot, $25,000 distribution" and added that it was their hope that from this point on, the Town would make
the requests. He emphasized that this was an "initiated law" and until some case law came into play, no
interpretation existed.
Discussion ensued relative to the fact that the Town's building project met the criteria in three different fashions;
the fact that Proposition 200 specifically talked about law enforcement and therefore the cost of the building for the
sheriff and court operations could certainly be applied for; the fact that the Proposition also talked about social
services, the seniors, and the Town's intention to apply for those funds as well; and the fact that this would be one
of the first requests submitted to Fort McDowell and the Salt River-Pima Maricopa Indian Community.
Councilwoman Nicola said that although she hoped the resolution passed, she would not support it based on
concerns expressed by both the Town Attorney and Councilwoman Stevens. She commented that the Town did not
ask for the money but it would still be counted in the "big picture" as the $25,000 that was given to the Town of
Fountain Hills in 2003. She noted the fiscal impact on the Town, which was already spent, and stated the opinion
that no definite legal answers had been given to the questions asked and concerns expressed regarding the
legislation. She added that she was not comfortable having the Town act as a "conduit" even for a one-time
occurrence because of the interpretation that she read into the statute.
In response to a request for clarification by Councilman Kavanagh, Mr. Pickering advised that following
discussions with the Indian community relative to helping them out this one time, staff, including the Town
Attorney,believed that this should be approved.
Councilwoman Ralphe said she agreed with many of the concerns voiced by Councilwoman Nicola and said her
additional concern had to do with taking action in the absence of a policy to govern that decision-making. She
stated the opinion that this was not good leadership or good government. She added that having said that, she was
going to vote yes this evening for two reasons; one, maintaining a good working relationship with the Salt River-
Pima Maricopa Indian Community, and two, to continue to maintain good relationship with the Boys & Girls Club.
She emphasized that a policy must be in place prior to another request being brought forward for funding or she
would not support it.
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Councilman Archambault noted that staff and other cities were working with the League of Arizona Cities &
Towns on a consistent policy and said he was concerned about the pressures that would come into play when they
reached the quarterly periods and the tribes attempted to distribute the money, as well as the timing. He noted that
several groups intended to come forward to request some of the Proposition 202 funding and, in addition, roads
needed to be repaired and funds were needed for the buildings. He said that he would support the proposal because ,140
he was satisfied that the Town was being indemnified and satisfied that the agreement to transfer terminated it. He
stated that he did not want to apply for future funding until a policy was in place and added that it should be
developed by February or by the first meeting in March.
Mr. Pickering agreed and said that staff would be working with the League and other cities and towns. If the
process did not move quickly enough,the Town might have to be the "pioneer."
Mayor Nichols said he wished staff would do that because the Town was going to be faced with this issue during
the next quarter. He added that he had discussions with the various communities and what they planned to do for
the next quarter was to allocate all of the funding towards education. He stated that some of the funds would
probably go to the Fountain Hills Unified School District and some to the Scottsdale District, so the monies would
have to go through the Town since the School Districts could not take the money directly. He stressed the
importance of being prepared in time.
Councilman Archambault concurred with the Mayor's remarks as well as Councilwoman Stevens who added that
perhaps instead of waiting on the League, the Town should be developing something on its own. If the League did
come back with something, it could be "meshed" into the Town's policy. She also recommended that a Work
Study Session be held on this.
Mr. McGuire clarified that they were essentially the League since it was made up of others like themselves who
were working to get something in place. He added that it took four or five working concertedly to get something
done and indicated staff's intent to work with those entities that have shown interest in this issue.
There were no citizens wishing to speak on this item.
It was MOVED by Councilman Kavanagh, SECONDED by Vice Mayor Melendez, that Resolution 2003-72 be
approved.
A roll call vote was taken with the following results:
Councilwoman Stevens Aye
Councilwoman Nicola Nay
Vice Mayor Melendez Aye
Councilwoman Ralphe Aye
Mayor Nichols Aye
Councilman Kavanagh Aye
Councilman Archambault Aye
The motion CARRIED BY MAJORITY VOTE(6 to 1).
AGENDA ITEM #11 — DISCUSSION WITH POSSIBLE DIRECTION TO STAFF RELATIVE TO
CREATING THE PUBLIC SAFETY COMMISSION.
NOTE: At the request of Town Attorney McGuire,a verbatim transcript was prepared on this agenda item for the purpose of
discussion clarification.
Mayor Nichols: Do you have any comments on this Mr. Pickering?
Mr. Pickering: I'll let our Town Attorney make most of them because as you know, we had a Work Shop
on this issue and we had a lot of varied opinions and I asked the Town Attorney to draft up
the ordinance and the response that I got back was that he needed more direction with
exactly what to do included in it. So I will let him take the issue from there and then we
can discuss it further.
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Mr. McGuire: At the last session we had probably seven or at least five different directions in which we
were going and we left the Work Session without any clear direction on where we were
headed next. We scratched our heads, looked at the minutes, looked at the packet of
materials and just couldn't in good faith give you a policy out of all that. Vice Mayor
Melendez said "let's put it back on the agenda and at least see if we can have some
discussion and talk about it to try and see where we're going on this thing." And I said
"absolutely, let's talk about it, I would love to have more direction on what we intend for
this Committee."
In the meantime, what has happened is that the City of Chandler and the City of Mesa have
both moved to form citizens' committees to decide whether or not or what kind of public
safety commission they want. The Mesa one is charged, over the next six months, to
provide the Council with a report because they want a citizens' oversight committee since
their situation is obviously related to police shootings, something we don't have. The
Chandler one I'm not sure what their timeframe was but the group is charged with coming
back with a recommendation based on all of these things on what exactly the role was
going to be of this committee. We wanted to float that idea out here and see what you
think about that, if that would be helpful to the Council in coming to a conclusion on this
or if you just want to give us your input tonight so we can focus it down from what we had
at the Work Session. We're open to anything.
Vice Mayor
Melendez: Thank you Mayor. On April 3, 2003, this Council approved the Melendez-Kavanagh law
enforcement Resolution No. 2003-16 and in section four it states that the Town Manager is
hereby authorized and directed to take all steps necessary to provide the Town Council
with an outline of their research and recommendation on the positions of Town Marshall,
Public Safety, and an Emergency Preparedness Director during the 2003-2004 budget
process. And in the other section, under five, it says that the Town Manager is hereby
(1111, authorized and directed to take all steps necessary to provide the Town Council with a plan
for the formation of a Citizens' Public Safety Commission. The reason I am referring to
this is because as Counsel stated, we have had discussions on this, we've had a Work
Study Session, and we don't seem to be getting any place. One of the situations I would
like to offer for the review of the Council is that this Council appoint a seven member ad
hoc committee from our citizens, to get this group formed so they can give us direction as
to what kind of a public safety commission is needed in our Town of Fountain Hills.
Thank you.
Councilman
Kavanagh: I am glad to see that our Workshops are so productive. We are back to square one. I think,
and Vice Mayor Melendez is correct, we did give direction to go on this and I think maybe
what we need to do is address some of the global questions first to kind of narrow down
the search. I really think the first global question is should we have separate commissions
for police and fire. I myself do not believe that it is a good idea to have one committee or
commission dealing with both police and fire because they are two very different services
and the kind of people who have expertise in fire would probably have no expertise in
police and vice-versa. I would hate to have a commission of seven or nine, whatever
number of people we have, where half the time when they are discussing a topic members
have no experience or background in the area. So I think the first issue to attempt to give
more direction to staff would be to address the issue ... do we want to have separate police
and fire or do we want to have one committee that deals with both issues? I think that
would be a good place to start.
L. Councilwoman
Stevens: Thank you. I was disappointed to hear your comments. I thought that at the Work Study
we, and especially I, apparently in isolation, was very clear about where I thought this
commission was going. So, in response to Councilman Kavanagh, I want a combined
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commission and this is what I see their charge as and everyone can see if they are on the
same wavelength or if I am by myself here: To advise and make recommendations on
community issues pertaining to emergency procedures, police and fire services. And that's
like the main statement that everything else kind of works off of. I don't think you have to
be a professional firefighter or a police person or even a retiree ... our commissioners are
just members of our community on Parks and Rec, on Planning and Zoning, on the
Community Center, on the McDowell Mountain Commission who just have an interest and
the time and maybe a little bit of experience in the area but want mostly to be involved.
And that is what I am looking for, people that are interested in giving me the community's
perspective or their perspective as to whether we should have a four way stop or a traffic
signal at the corner of Glenbrook and Fountain Hills Boulevard, someone e-mailed me, but
I think the starting point has to be from the staff and I am wondering where we are with our
public safety coordinator who I think would be helpful in kind of gelling this together. I
don't think that we need a committee per se, but I think we need to get the head guy on
board and I'm wondering where we are with that. So that's my perspective on it.
Councilwoman
Nicola: Thank you. I too am somewhat bewildered after all of the discussions that we had that
we're talking about starting over at square one and appointing citizens to have discussions
on whether we should even have this discussion. I agree pretty much with everything
Councilwoman Stevens said. I think that the idea for the commission was not to be two
separate commissions, not to disenfranchise the Town Manager with our law enforcement
or our fire personnel but that the staff person, the Town Manager or his designee, would be
working with the commission; that the commission would be making recommendations on
certain requested information to the Town Council that is in no way, shape or form going
to be a committee that looks at the actions of any one public safety officer and determines
whether or not those actions were appropriate. That's just not what this commission was
about, this commission was about simply being the eyes and ears in the community; being
a connection, if you will, between the citizens and the Town Council and staff members
and contracted employees that provide public safety services. So I'll stop for now but I ;
would just like to see us move forward.
Mr. McGuire: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, that is exactly what we are talking about. As
Councilwoman Stevens just said, the Commission addresses things like traffic signals, stop
signs, and everything else and then we just had made recommendations on requested
information to and from the Council but then the next breath was bringing information
from the public and while that might sound like it's cohesive to you, to me that sounds like
something impossible to draft. And so I'm wondering too if we're talking about traffic
safety, we can't go there, we've got a department that goes there every day and the
Engineering Department has a specific set of rules on that, on what we do, and if we are
talking about the members of the commission going off in the direction of giving us traffic
recommendations or engineering recommendations, we need to stop that one now because
we can't put that out there as something that we can ask the public to give input on unless
it's just to pose the question to Council ... when someone calls and says "why don't we
have a traffic light at such and such," that kind of answer comes from staff so I want to
make sure that we are moving down the same path and not going off on different tangents
already.
Mayor Nichols: Do you have a follow up question?
Councilwoman
Nicola: To clarify, I winced when that four-way stop issue was mentioned because I didn't agree
with that specifically because I do acknowledge that there is a process and a department for
that. What I mean by being the ears and eyes of the community is that when someone is on
the Parks and Rec Commission they get feedback on parks and rec issues from the citizens,
they are the intermediary because they have that recommendation to make so I'm not
suggesting really anything more than that.
Councilman
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Kavanagh: Just two quick comments. First, on the issue of separate committees, our current
committee structure shows that we believe in separate committees. We don't have a
community committee that does parks and rec and zoning. We separated recreation into
parks and rec and land use into P&Z so our experience is keep people in the area of their
interest if not expertise. But I think what came up on this latest exchange is what actually
is the purpose of this group; if it's to be a conduit of public opinion to us or is it to be a
group that advises us on policy and technical issues and therein ... if it's a conduit to
public opinion, yes, you can just get regular citizens. If it's a conduit for recommendations
on policies, staffing, equipment and what have you, then you need people who are ... at
least a majority of the committee should have some background in the area. And I think
that that's another question that we have to deal with. Now besides separate, next is what
are they going to do and I would finally recommend that if the decision is that it be a
conduit, then I don't think we need one for police because I think the proper conduit for
police department input is the community police officer and the community groups which
he or she is organizing. That would just mean that we would limit this now to the issue of
fire public input, but quite frankly in my 53 years of existence on this earth, I've never
heard of a fire community council. I mean I don't know of anybody who has complaints
about, you know, fire issues other than the political realm here.
Councilman
Archambault: Thank you Mayor. Well I've heard some discussions both ways but certainly maybe the
resolution should have been looked at a little bit closer but it certainly says that we wanted
a public safety commission. Now to me, that's one body. Now we had a public safety
director who looked over fire and police. Some of the towns that I've come from in the
past have had public safety commissions that served both. I don't believe, although I think
it's possible to have one ex police officer and one ex firefighter on the commission, if you
limit it to somebody with experience in that, you are not going to drive citizen
participation. Now certainly we have logical citizens out there, we use people in Blue
Ribbon committees that come up with some very logical solutions to some of the very
major problems we've had in this Town and I see a public safety commission as a
commission kind of like what Councilwoman Stevens has come up with. There's going to
be issues that arise, whether it has to do with tagging or how to deal with certain different
forums that staff becomes frustrated with, whether it's going out and doing policing or if
it's going out and doing fire service and there are situations that come up so you need one
commission to look into those things. That's where the Public Safety Coordinator would
come into play, he's going to direct what that commission comes up with and that's where
my frustration comes in. I thought we were moving in that direction; we've had a couple
of Work Study sessions on it now and I don't see why we can't get started with it. I can
understand Council's confusion on it, we were all over the place at times, and hopefully we
are giving you a little more clearer direction.
Councilwoman
Stevens: Okay, maybe that four-way stop wasn't a great example but you know I do think part of
the commission ... I do think the commission maybe would be interested in giving us some
recommendations on traffic. And I'll give you a better example hopefully — three or four
years ago, we had a street in the community that was up in arms over speeders. And they
went to meeting after meeting about speed humps, and should there be stop signs and that
whole thing. It finally went to the Council and I think they made a decision to put speed
humps in on a temporary basis and then it became permanent. So for something like that,
and this would be something the Public Safety Coordinator would decide, is it appropriate
or not? He would be the person with the expertise that would either put it on the agenda or
say "no, we're handling that with this department head or the Town Manager," whoever
(' would be the person involved. But I do think that there are times when I would like a
i „ recommendation from a citizens' commission on those kinds of things and I think there are
other things too. If someone e-mailed us about a program "Keep Kids Alive, Drive 25,"
would that be something we would be interested in having within this community? What
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better group to address that than a citizens' group or commission? I don't have my whole
list of examples I had at the Work Study but I think there are a number of things that those
folks could get involved in. It could be directed from us, it could be their own ideas, it
could be the community gives an idea to the Public Safety Coordinator and he says, "yes, it
is appropriate to go to the Commission or no it's not." So I really don't think that we need
to have an extremely narrow focus, it's whatever fits within to advise on community
issues. Does that help? Community issues are whatever the Public Safety Coordinator
decides is a community issue versus a technical service issue. He makes that choice.
Vice Mayor
Melendez: Thank you Mayor. Let me go back to some statements I heard. We were talking about the
Public Safety Commission being a conduit to the community and I don't think that's the
purpose of the commission. We have a Law Enforcement Advisory Panel (LEAP) that is
designed to be a partnership between citizens and government. I believe that the intent of
that organization is to keep on going and I believe that Councilman Kavanagh said we
can't stop them and we don't want to discourage them. I think they are in the process of
getting new people so that's the place where in my opinion the conduit to the community
is, that's the best example of what community policing is all about. Now if indeed we
voted to place a Public Safety Commission in place, I'd like to ask the Town Manager have
we budgeted in 2004 for a Public Safety Director's position and if so range of money
please.
Mr. Pickering: I haven't budgeted for a director, I budgeted for a coordinator, which is about .... I think
we put in there about$50,000 for the cost.
Vice Mayor
Melendez: Okay then, let me follow up by making this statement: if we have this coordinator, in my
opinion if he is to help you administer contracts, which is your ultimate responsibility on
fire and law enforcement, what else are we going to have this individual do because we are
looking at budgets and we should be, in my opinion, wise enough to distribute some of the
responsibilities as needed. Maybe the position could be an Assistant Town Manager that
would look at water issues, someone that would look at our pollutants and the district and
so forth. So it could not just be fire and safety related, what I am saying is if we are going
to be under budget restraints next year, what better way than to elongate the responsibilities
of this individual and make it a multi-faceted he or she reporting directly to the Town
Manager.
Mr. Pickering: One of the questions Councilmembers have asked me is "where are we on that position,"
but I say to some of them that I'm not sure what that position is going to do. It depends
somewhat on this Commission, depending on how that is going to lay out but the one thing
that I've had trouble with, and I guess Joan has left, our Personnel Administrator, is we
can't come up with full-time duties for the limited scope that we are talking about. If you
are just saying you are going to help the manager negotiate the contracts, we do that, that's
a small part of the year; develop and oversee the emergency plan, which we certainly
wanted to do as part of it; but besides that, we can't come up with a full-time position.
Expanding it into any other role that I assign it, be it grant writing, be it strategic planning,
that's another one that you might have, you're not going to hire the same type of person.
It's going to be a different person you are talking about hiring which is why I'm very much
holding back on that because I don't know what the discussion of the commission, what we
are actually talking about, and then that relates to I don't know what this person is going to
do. So I'm just trying to be honest with you.
Councilman
Kavanagh: I would just say if creating these positions is going to require us to hire someone for
$50,000 to oversee them, then I'm not for these commissions. Everything seems nebulous
and fluffy in this discussion; we don't know where we are going. I'd like to know what
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other towns are doing. You said there were two other towns looking into this, are they
looking to joint police and fire commissions? Does Scottsdale have a joint police and fire
commission? Does Phoenix have a joint police and fire commission? And I suspect the
answer is no so I don't know why we are having a joint police and fire commission and
putting a cherry on the top of this by hiring someone for $50,000 to oversee it. This is
getting out of control.
Mr. McGuire: Mr. Mayor, Councilman Kavanagh, the research we've done in other communities focuses
specifically on one area or another in almost all cases and in virtually every case where it's
been a police oversight commission, it has involved citizens' oversight over a problem in
the police department that was identified and either treated on an ad hoc basis or that was
the genesis of an oversight commission by the police department.
Councilman
Kavanagh: So your research basically concludes that nobody has a joint police and fire commission,
which means we can assume nobody thinks they need one and that those areas that have
police commissions are doing it because of political problems, shootings and other things,
which we don't have in this Town. So I'm getting to the point where I don't think we need
these commissions. I think we have a community relations police officer, we have Block
Watch and I think that the community relations department that we pay for is very able to
put together community input and take care of that. And in the area of fire, that is
something that I would be open to a discussion on but I think we are creating unnecessary
government and expense.
Councilwoman
Nicola: Thank you. I just wanted to respond to a few things that have been said around the table
here. As far as LEAP goes, LEAP is citizen organized, it is not a Town sanctioned group.
LEAP does not have to publish agendas, they don't have to keep set meeting dates, they
can meet behind closed doors and they can meet wherever they want. They don't keep
minutes and they don't report to the public. So in that respect and with all due respect, I
don't recognize them as being the group that I envisioned anyway in all of this discussion
that I thought we were looking for. I still want to focus on education and awareness. In
answer to Mr. Kavanagh's concerns, the other things that this Town does not have is we
don't have a police chief on staff that reports to the Town Manager, to the Council. They
are not a staff employee.
Councilman
Kavanagh They are town employees, we pay the salary.
Councilwoman
Nicola We contract for the service.
Councilman
Kavanagh So we do have a police chief.
Councilwoman
Nicola I'm sorry I didn't interrupt you, if you could just let me finish. Thank you. We the Town
do not choose or hire who the police chief is, we do not choose or hire who the fire chief is,
they are recommended, they are already employees of the contracted entity that we choose
to provide all of the services. We have very, very limited control over who we have.
Not that I'm saying that's either good or bad, that's what we have. We are one of
the few cities and towns that contract for all of our public safety and that is why in
April of this year, after long discussion, there was an amendment, there was a
majority decision to go forward in this and the IGA's too that I haven't seen either.
So I still say for emergency preparedness reasons, there are numerous reasons why
this body of citizens volunteering to serve because they choose to be part of the
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community and give that time is a good thing for the Town. I think that what we
need to do is identify a mission statement and parameters for this group, should a
majority choose to form this group, and I hope that is what happens. As far as the
full-time nature of the coordinator position is concerned, there are monies available
for emergency preparedness persons, there's federal money and there's state v.
money. There is a real need to get this moving. There is a small group in the
community that is trying to put together a community emergency response team so
that would be another group that would coordinate with our existing public safety
that the commission could help. So again, I'd be happy to talk more if someone
wanted me to keep talking but I am obviously in favor of this commission and I
think that we need to just again focus on narrowing the mission of the commission
and then advertise.
Vice Mayor
Melendez: Thank you Mayor. With all due respect to my colleague Councilwoman Nicola, let me
remind you dear lady that LEAP, during the past four years, was responsible in our Town
to develop the safety videos that you see each night that you see the Council meetings.
This was done with the cooperation of the school, the students and the LEAP people. Two,
the "Drive Slowly" signs that are all over the Town asking citizens and out-of-towners to
drive slowly, it's our Town .... this was done by LEAP. Three, the Block Watch program
that started initially many, many years ago was enhanced by the members of LEAP. Four,
the numerous citizen issues that were taken care of without your knowledge because that's
the purpose of LEAP. They didn't want to come to the sheriff and at that time the marshal
so they handled that by house visits on issues dealing with drugs, battery and so forth and I
feel that this organization, even though it is not recognized and even though it may never
be recognized, is the conduit between the citizens and the law enforcement agency.
Having said that I want to ask the Town Manager and the Town Attorney, since we
adopted this resolution in April, and we voted on it, from a legal standpoint (and here we vie
go Andrew) do we have to number one form a public safety commission and number two
do we have to hire and retain a public safety director? Because if we don't have to, then
we're all wasting time here.
Mr. McGuire: Mr. Mayor, members of the Council, as you know, a resolution of the Council can be
amended by the Council at any time if you want to amend it, so if it's this body's decision
now to give different direction to the Town Manager than what was given in the resolution,
that is your prerogative. As you know, this is not cast in stone and virtually anything that
the Town Council does, there's always a chance that you may go back and revisit it. The
current direction is for the Town Manager to move forward with bringing to you all of the
things you need, all the tools you need to create this position and hire a Public Safety
Director. Those are the two things involved here and if your direction has changed, that is
your prerogative. We certainly don't want to continue down the path and have the Town
Manager not have any direction as to whether or not the current City Council still has that
focus. And that's why we wanted to have it come back, we have now gone from broad
focus to narrow focus. This is the discussion we wanted to make sure that you understood
it's difficult to craft a policy because we really just don't hear a consensus on any of this.
I'll be happy at the end of tonight's meeting to go back and create a policy for you and see
if we can come anywhere close to what the majority of you agree on but so far it's going to
be pretty much a shot in the dark. I'll be happy to do it but legitimately, when we look at
the minutes, I am going to see "narrow the focus, give a specific scope and broad focus on
community issues."
Councilman
Archambault: Thank you Mayor. I want to remind this Council how precarious we are right now with
our public safety. We have directed that IGA's be put in place so we don't get caught so to
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speak "with our pants down." Those IGA's aren't in place yet and I don't think they are
even in negotiations, are they Tim?
Mr. Pickering: Not with Fort McDowell,no.
Councilman
Archambault: The whole purpose that I understood on April 3rd of this public safety commission and the
public safety coordinator was that we get IGA's in place, we do emergency preparedness,
we had an emergency plan that needed upgrading. It has been updated but I believe it's an
on-going process. Part of the duties that I see this public safety coordinator doing is
working with the different cities and towns to have IGA's in place in case Rural Metro
comes to us and says "Guess what guys, I'm not going to contract with you next year."
Well we better be looking at other agencies to contract with or hiring our own staff; we
can't put a fire department together in six months, trust me guys, you won't be able to do
it. You can't put a fire department together in six months. It took the Fire District almost a
year to put a fire department together. You have to search. Look how long we've been
searching in the public works for a Planning and Zoning Administrator. We've been
interviewing and interviewing and interviewing. You're not going to put a fire department
together in six months. Not with those type of interviews to get the right people. We need
to put this commission together and need it to be a public safety commission and it needs
to have some type of a broad umbrella and we can narrow the scope down however we
would like but I see it as addressing public safety issues under the direction of the Town
Manager. As we get this public safety coordinator in place, under the direction of the
Town Manager, and we start looking at IGA's getting them in place. We're coming up on a
budget year folks, and if I'm sitting in front of the budget meeting, I'm going to be
thoroughly irritated if we get caught again like we did this year. Now we budgeted
$50,000 for a coordinator,everybody voted on it, why all of a sudden is it being said"geez,
I don't think we should spend that kind of money?" That's ridiculous, it's cheap insurance.
111160 Councilman
Kavanagh: Thank you. I'm not prepared to write off these committees and I'm not prepared to write
off a coordinator, although I think Vice Mayor Melendez makes a lot of sense when he
says if there's not enough time for a full time coordinator maybe it might be better to have
an assistant manager who does part of this and some other duties like water and what have
you. But we can't go anywhere until we resolve the two issues that we had when we came
here, separate committees and what is the focus, technical or public input. We have gotten
nowhere towards doing that and I think that the best guidance we could get at this point is I
would like to find out what the towns around us are doing. I'd like staff to contact Mesa,
Scottsdale, Glendale, Phoenix, Paradise Valley and say to them "do you have a public
safety commission or do you have two separate or do you have none?" And what is their
focus, conduit for the public or technical advice? And I think if we discover that everyone
around us was pretty much one way, then there must be a good reason for that. Right now
I feel I'm diving in making a decision when I have no idea what's happening, although my
instincts tell me the way I think it should go but my instincts aren't enough policy, so I
think maybe we should table this until the next meeting or two meetings, whatever staff
believes, and let's find out what are the people around us doing in similar situations on
those two issues. And any other issues which a Councilmember wants to throw in.
Mayor Nichols: I think I've heard a lot of people here tonight saying they wanted one commission not two.
I'm also hearing from Council is that we don't want this commission to be a technical
advisor to deal with technical issues. I think I'm also hearing from Councilmembers that
that's not what they want it to be either, what you want it to be is a conduit to deal with the
citizens, to get citizen input to help the Council on different issues. I support that. I was
also under the impression that when they first talked about the public safety commission
that that would then be the sanctioned body that the Town would work with as opposed to
working with LEAP. Now this is the first I've heard tonight that LEAP was intending to
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continue on. I was under the impression that once the public safety commission was set
up,LEAP would then fold its tent and go away and the Town would give its support to the
public safety commission. And Neighborhood Watch would get support from the
commission and from the sheriffs department. I think I am hearing basically one 11)
commission and not technical.
Councilman
Kavanagh: Would the Mayor and Council be open to reconsidering that general trend, which I did pick
up, if you discovered that nobody else does that? Would that be cause to re-evaluate the
wisdom of doing something that nobody else does?
Councilwoman
Nicola: No.
Councilman
Kavanagh: Okay.
Councilwoman
Stevens: As I recall, no one else had a Community Center Commission either but we decided to
form one Councilman Kavanagh and you were on the Council when you and I, along with
Councilwoman Ralphe and others decided to form the Community Center Commission.
No one else had that. At the time it wasn't exactly clear what they were going to do, we
had a new community center and we knew we needed some help in running it. We had just
hired a new director, they were actually involved in some discussions with the candidates
that were up for directorship if that's a word and I would hate to think where we would be
without that commission because I think that they have done a wonderful job. I don't
really care what other communities are doing, I think it's a great idea for this Town, which
has a great community spirit and a lot of people that like to get involved in community type
issues, not in technical type issues, that isn't what we want them involved in. I do, as
passionate as I am about this because I've been speaking on it for a couple of years now, I
do see a problem in a commission without a leader. All of our commissions have good
leaders and by leaders I mean senior staff members. And without a public safety
coordinator I think it would be extremely difficult to keep this commission on focus. And
I'm looking at you Mr. Pickering because I think it would be kind of difficult for you to
wear your Manager hat and this coordinator hat because you don't kind of seem in-tune
with what we are trying to do here. And quite frankly, I would like someone with some
expertise in public safety. So that to me really needs to get going and if it's not a full-tine
job, it's not a full-time job. The salary is there, we have benefits for a part-time person,
and a person decides whether they are interested in a position based on what they do, the
salary and the benefits. And if they're not interested, they're not interested and if we can't
find anyone that's interested, then I think we need to think about this a little more. But
that's the direction I'm headed.
Vice Mayor
Melendez: Thank you Mayor. I am going to ask Mr. Pickering when are we going to embark on the
budgeting process?
Mr. Pickering: Well first off, you kind of embark at that when we are in the retreat which is in January
because that will set a lot of the priorities at least as far as what we plan for the upcoming
year. But the true budget where you actually start seeing numbers and things like that,
that's probably going to be in April.
Vice Mayor
Melendez: Can I follow up? My logic says that if they are going to budget for a $50,000 individual,
going back to my premise, why can't we change the nomenclature of the public safety
director to assistant town manager so if the Town Manager feels that he or she can do more
to support the Town and staff and administration, to me it makes a lot of sense to give you
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that flexibility. And therefore you can have more than just the fire and the law
enforcement ordinance. I'm sure that just those three issues are not going to take the time
of a full-time employee with benefits and everything. So my whole point is maybe there's
a way Council could talk about expanding this and changing the title so they can have
more responsibility.
Councilman
Archambault: Thank you Mayor. I'd like to point out ... I'm going to piggyback on what you said
Councilwoman Stevens, we are the only Town that I can think of that contracts for their
fire and police. I mean we have a full-blown police department, we have a full-blown fire
department. Now there's probably other towns that are smaller than us that have a smaller
contract with maybe a police chief and that's all they have and maybe one squad car, but
we've got a fairly good sized staff here and I think that was the concern that was raised
when we voted back on April 3rd to pass this ordinance and that was taken into
consideration. That was the promise that was given to the Town on what we were going to
do because we were talking such large contracts, we're talking $2.5 million contracts, so I
think we have to follow through on that commitment. Thank you.
Councilman
Kavanagh: Thank you. It gets back to the two issues. It appears now that there is a consensus for a
general committee that does police and fire. Unfortunately, none of the arguments for it
support it. The last round Councilwoman Stevens gave a new example, which was the
Community Center Advisory Committee. Three examples were given; parks and rec,
planning and zoning and the community and what do all three have in common? All three
are single-focus groups. P&Z does just zoning, parks and rec does just recreation and the
Community Center Advisory Committee, which I was on just did the community center. It
wasn't community center and roads. Every example and every other town separates these
distinctly different functions and the only reason given was if we want to do it different we
can. That's true but we can also do it improperly and I think we're going down a bad route
doing that. The second is the focus issue. When I supported this initially, I thought the
focus of this group was going to be to give us some technical assistance, and there are a lot
of technical issues. In the area of fire, three manned trucks, three fire person trucks, four
fire person trucks, the ladder truck, AED's, all sorts of technical issues that I thought it
would be good to have a citizens' group with some background and some non-background
mix give us advice and that was fine. But we've gone away from that. Now we're into
pure conduit public opinion and I don't think you need a conduit public opinion on firemen
because all you are going to hear is firemen are great because firemen are great. There are
no controversial public input issues for firemen. A fireman is not going to shoot somebody
with his hose, you don't need a fireman review board. So you don't need fire. And that
brings us to the police. We have Block Watches and we have a community police officer
and they do those things. So if your focus is public input, then this committee will be just
duplication and the tragedy of it is that according to the Town Manager creating it is going
to require this new position, $50,000. So the way it's structured, one focus and public
input, I think it's unnecessary and I won't support it.
Councilwoman
Stevens: Thank you. Just to follow up on that, I'm not going to let that sit. Mr. Pickering, it seems
to me that when we had our Work Study, even before that, you gave us a list of all the
responsibilities that the public safety coordinator would have.
Mr. Pickering: Yes.
(1180, Councilwoman
Stevens: His primary responsibility is certainly not this commission. We are not creating a position
just in order to chair or head a commission but there was a whole litany of things and I
didn't bring that with me, responsibilities that the person would have. Now maybe that's a
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half-time job or a three-quarter-time job or whatever it is but it's not just to direct this
commission. So that's one thing. And the heading is public safety, now to me they are
related just like parks are related to recreation and I'm not sure what you are calling
technical issues because if we as a Council are going to vote perhaps someday on whether
a truck should have four people or three, why couldn't the commission also give us their 4441,
recommendation? I don't have any experience with fire.
Councilman
Kavanagh: Then you shouldn't be giving the recommendation.
Councilwoman
Stevens: I'm going to be voting on it.
Councilman
Kavanagh: But you are relying upon a recommendation from people who hopefully have some
background, not everyday citizens who just thought it would be nice to get on this
commission.
Councilwoman
Stevens: I'll just talk, it will be better that way. But when I vote, part of my vote is based on the
recommendation from any commissions that are involved and also from staff. You know
that is what I base my vote on and input from the community. So it's a little bit different
and the commissions that give me input, some of them have expertise and some of them
don't and I weigh that. I don't know if we've given you enough direction tonight or not
but I am interested in proceeding on with this. I think Vice Mayor Melendez had an
interesting point about the assistant town manager, another one of my passions that we
didn't have the money for in the past year and the year before either but I have long
supported that position and included in that a grants writer so that we could seek outside
monies that I know are available and I know it's hit and miss with our staff members but if
there's extra money in the budget and we can expand that and someone has the expertise to
do both, I certainly would be interested in looking at that.
Mayor Nichols: Let me ask Mr. Pickering and Mr. McGuire, do you have a sense of the Council? We've
had debate and discussion, do you have a sense now that you'd be able to go and write a
draft that you could bring back to us, which I'm sure we'll debate again. But do you?
Mr. Pickering: Yes Mayor, I think we do. It's probably not going to be passed in the exact order that we
present it in but we will give it our best shot. Look for it though at the February meeting
because if you remember at the January meeting, it's all the revenue enhancements, that's
when we'll present it to the Council and try to give you at least what we think we hear,
which is more public input, a conduit for public input and non-technical discussions and
recommendations that the group would take on.
Mayor Nichols: Would that also include a job description for the position, whatever the position is called?
You may want to have two separate descriptions, a basic one like you have now and an
expanded one.
Mr. Pickering: I'll just say a couple of things on that that I would ask the Council to consider. Internally,
the staff, myself, and the personnel administrator, we try and develop those job
descriptions for something that we think would be useful versus trying to do it at the dais.
I think you're making a mistake by doing that, if you just try to pick out, because it would
be difficult to do. So I will submit that to you but it will be my recommendation that it be
whatever it is.
Mayor Nichols: But I don't think we want to sit here and negotiate job descriptions, but we'd like to see
two different ones.
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Mr. Pickering: Sure, we can do that.
Mayor Nichols: Okay, I think we've had a long discussion on this item and we should move on to Item
#12.
AGENDA ITEM #12 - COUNCIL ASSESSMENT AND REVIEW OF THE MEETING TO IDENTIFY
PROCEDURAL STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES AND DISCUSS POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENTS FOR
FUTURE MEETINGS.
Councilman Archambault said that when he was looking at the resolution for the school, he thought it would
contain some type of an agreement to share the studios with the school. He asked if the Council would see
something on that in the future.
Mr. McGuire responded that included in that was limited technical assistance and said that in the scope of that, staff
anticipated that the help would be flowing from the Town to the school district at first and, if later on the
relationship changed to where the Town was able to use their studios for production and the students were doing
more Town stuff, they could certainly address that then. He added that the nature of the IGA was so broad that that
kind of interaction could easily happen under the scope of it. He stated that the main focus of the IGA was to make
sure that the idea of who was responsible for content was very clear.
Mr. Pickering added that the Town also must make sure that the school district agreed to comply.
Mr. McGuire said that the school district could also reject the resolution in its current form but stated that he would
bring the matter back before the Council in the future.
AGENDA ITEM #13 — COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION TO THE TOWN MANAGER. ITEMS
LISTED BELOW ARE RELATED ONLY TO THE PROPRIETY OF (i) PLACING SUCH ITEMS ON A
FUTURE AGENDA FOR ACTION OR (ii) OR DIRECTING STAFF TO CONDUCT FURTHER
RESEARCH AND REPORT BACK TO THE COUNCIL: NONE.
There was no discussion relative to this agenda item.
AGENDA ITEM#14—SUMMARY OF COUNCIL REQUESTS BY TOWN MANAGER
Mr. Pickering stated that he would provide to the Council the existing square footages of offices for the Civic
Center Phase II. In addition, staff would place on Channel 11 the change in the Town's policy regarding the
Channel. He said that hopefully by March a draft policy would be developed regarding Proposition 202. He stated
that staff would also prepare a Public Safety Commission draft ordinance or resolution to the Council as well as a
couple of different job descriptions for the public safety coordinator.
Councilman Kavanagh said that Mr. Pickering was also going to contact other cities to determine whether they
have dual public safety commissions or separate police and fire.
Mr. Pickering responded that staff would provide that information.
Mayor Nichols asked the members of the Council whether they wanted to express any holiday greetings.
Councilwoman Stevens wished everyone a safe and happy holiday.
Councilwoman Nicola said she too would like to say happy holidays to all.
Vice Mayor Melendez thanked President Bush and the brave men and women of our country who gave everyone an
early Christmas present by capturing Saddam Hussein and added that he enjoyed working with his colleagues this
year and wished them and their families a happy holiday season.
La..- Councilman Kavanagh stated that he would echo the same words of the Vice Mayor and Councilwoman Ralphe did
the same.
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The Mayor also wished everyone a good holiday season and said since a lot of people would be traveling over the
holidays, he;hoped their journeys were safe, without incident, and that everyone had a good time wherever they
might,go; .Hesadded that he looked forward to the Council Retreat on January 6th and 7th and said he believed very
positive things would result from the meetings. He said he was honored to serve as Mayor during the past six it
-
month period of time and was looking forward to continuing in that role as they move forward. He reiterated his 44
wish for a happy holiday.season.
AGENDA I 'TMv#i5`-ADJOU#NMENT
Councilwoman Sievens MO that the Council adjourn and Councilwoman Nicola SECONDED the motion,
which CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. The meeting adjourned at 9:01 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAI HILLS
r
By
ally Nic of ,Mayor
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
,1 / /
/ .��
Bevelyn J. Bend'r,O'nClerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Session held by
the Town.Council of Fountain Hills on the 18th day of December 2003. I further certify that the meeting was duly
called and that a quorum was present.
41111
DATED this 15th day of January 2004.
/..L2 (. (-1 C ( 't "fii
Bevelyn J. Beer;'Town Clerk
j
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