Press Alt + R to read the document text or Alt + P to download or print.
This document contains no pages.
HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022.0503.TCRM.Minutes TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
MAY 3, 2022
1. CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE — Mayor Dickey
Mayor Dickey called the Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held May 3,
2022, to order at 5:35 p.m.
2. MOMENT OF SILENCE
A Moment of Silence was held.
3. ROLL CALL —Mayor Dickey
Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey; Councilmember Mike Scharnow; Councilmember David
Spelich; Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Alan Magazine
Staff Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town Clerk
Present: Elizabeth A. Klein
4. REPORTS BY MAYOR, COUNCILMEMBERS AND TOWN MANAGER
A. PROCLAMATION: Declaring May 9 - 13, 2022, as Economic Development Week.
5. SCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCES/PRESENTATIONS
A. PRESENTATION: Update regarding Independence Day activities.
6. CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Pursuant to A.R.S. §38-431.01(H), public comment is permitted(not required) on matters NOT listed on the
agenda. Any such comment(i)must be within the jurisdiction of the Council, and(ii)is subject to reasonable
time,place, and manner restrictions. The Council will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised during
Call to the Public unless the matters are properly noticed for discussion and legal action. At the conclusion of
the Call to the Public, individual councilmembers may(i)respond to criticism, (ii) ask staff to review a matter,
or(iii) ask that the matter be placed on a future Council agenda.
7. CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS
All items listed on the Consent Agenda are considered to be routine, noncontroversial matters and will be
enacted by one motion of the Council. All motions and subsequent approvals of consent items will include all
recommended staff stipulations unless otherwise stated. There will be no separate discussion of these items
unless a councilmember or member of the public so requests. If a councilmember or member of the public
wishes to discuss an item on the Consent Agenda, he/she may request so prior to the motion to accept the
Consent Agenda or with notification to the Town Manager or Mayor prior to the date of the meeting for which
the item was scheduled. The items will be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered in its normal
Town Council Regular Meeting of May 3, 2022 2 of 4
sequence on the agenda.
MOVED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski, SECONDED BY Councilmember Alan
Magazine to approve the Consent Agenda Items 7-A through 7-D.
Vote: 7 - 0 Passed - Unanimously
A. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes of the Special
Meeting of April 5, 2022; the Regular Meeting of April 5, 2022; and the Special Meeting of
April 12, 2022.
B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Adoption of Resolution 2022-22 approving
the Public Art Master Plan Revisions.
C. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Resolution 2022-23 Decommissioning and
Removing Town-Owned Artwork " Man in the Moon" from Public Display in Fountain Park.
D. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of budget transfers for the Special
Revenue Fund, Tourism Fund, and Capital Project Fund.
8. REGULAR AGENDA
A. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Adopting Resolution 2022-18 of the Mayor
and Council of the Town of Fountain Hills, Arizona, setting forth the Tentative Budget and
establishing the maximum budget amount for the Town of Fountain Hills for the fiscal year
beginning July 1, 2022, and ending June 30, 2023.
MOVED BY Councilmember Peggy McMahon, SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron
Grzybowski to adopt Resolution No. 2022-18.
Vote: 7 - 0 Passed - Unanimously
B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Ordinance 22-01, amending Chapters 1, 5,
10, and 11 of the Zoning Ordinance to provide the definition of family and community
residence, the regulations for community residences, and provide the zoning districts
where community residences are permitted.
MOVED BY Councilmember Peggy McMahon, SECONDED BY Vice Mayor Gerry
Friedel to adopt Ordinance 22-01, including the amendments discussed during the
meeting.
Vote: 6 - 1 Passed
NAY: Councilmember Mike Scharnow
C. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Adoption of Resolution 2022-11 approving
an intergovernmental agreement with Maricopa County Animal Care and Control.
Town Council Regular Meeting of May 3, 2022 3 of 4
MOVED BY Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel, SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron
Grzybowski to adopt Resolution 2022-11.
Vote: 7 - 0 Passed - Unanimously
D. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Resolution 2022-14 approving Amendment
One to the Intergovernmental Agreement with the Flood Control District of Maricopa
County for the Golden Eagle Park Dam-Debris Mitigation Improvement Project.
MOVED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski, SECONDED BY Councilmember Peggy
McMahon to adopt Resolution 2022-17.
Vote: 7 - 0 Passed - Unanimously
E. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approving Professional Services
Agreement 2022-071 with Shums Coda for 3rd party plan review and inspection services
for Phases II and III of Park Place.
Removed from agenda.
F. DISCUSSION WITH POSSIBLE DIRECTION relating to any item included in the League
of Arizona Cities and Towns' weekly Legislative Bulletin(s) or relating to any action
proposed or pending before the State Legislature.
9. COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION to the TOWN MANAGER
Item(s)listed below are related only to the propriety of(i)placing such item(s) on a future agenda for action, or
(ii)directing staff to conduct further research and report back to the Council.
10. ADJOURNMENT
The Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held May 3, 2022, adjourned at
9:09 p.m.
MOVED BY Councilmember David Spelich, SECONDED BY Councilmember Alan
Magazine to adjourn.
Vote: 7 - 0 Passed - Unanimously
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
r (�
Ginny ckey, ayor
ATTE T AND PREPARED BY:
• izabet 'Klein, Town lerk
Town Council Regular Meeting of May 3, 2022 4 of 4
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular
Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 3rd day of
May, 2022. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 17th day of May, 2022.
Eli abeth lein, Town Clerk
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 1 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Post-Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
May 3, 2022 Regular Town Council Meeting
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
* * * * *
Page 1 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 2 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Now we will call to order our regular meeting, and I would ask you to please stand for
the pledge and remain standing.
[Pledge]
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Please remain standing for a moment of silence. Thank
you.
Roll call,please.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Mayor Dickey? -
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Vice Mayor Friedel?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Present
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember McMahon?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Scharnow?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Present.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Magazine?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Spelich?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Present.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Grzybowski?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, all. We'll start with our reports by the Manager and
Council.
TOWN MANAGER MILLER: Thank you, Mayor and Council. A couple of weeks ago,
the Chamber of Commerce held its annual gala event and it was really well attended. As
part of that event, the Economic Development division annually gives an award to what it
considers to be the top attraction or something that was offered new to attract tourism in
the community or nearby. And We-ko-pa Casino Resort was recognized for their
significant investment, the employment. We have a number of residents here who
actually live here and also work there. So anyways, that was kind of exciting to give it to
the tribal community next door, and they do so much with the money that actually comes
back to our community through a number of grants. So that was great.
Page 2 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 3 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Another noteworthy event I wanted to share with the Council was that last Saturday, the
Town was the host for the annual Arizona Sister Cities conference. We had about 80
attendees at the Community Center, and it was actually organized by the Sister Cities
Corporation-- Fountain Hills Sister Cities Corporation and also the Fountain Hills Sister
Cities Commission that the Council appoints. So it was a great event. And we had-- the
diplomatic core was represented there, and the featured speaker was the Mayor of Cusco,
Peru, which is the gateway to Machu Pichu. So we had a really, really good conference.
That's all I have, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Good afternoon. I also attended the Sister Cities
Conference, and it was really informative, and I met a lot of wonderful people who really
are passionate about being part of that conference and the Sister City Organization. And
also, I think it's two weeks ago, we had the CARES Forum on dementia friendly. A great
speaker, great turnout. I mean, we just had some really fantastic results from that, a very
high level of interest. A friend of mine is called who wants to champion being a
dementia-friendly city. So I'm looking forward --we're looking forward to working with
her on that. So thank you.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: I, too, did attend the Chamber gala, and it was quite a -- quite
an event that they put on. So thank you, again, for all that hard work.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: I was thinking, Mayor. I got a pretty long list
here, Grzybowski. I don't know. Well, Gerry is being modest here, because I was at the
Chamber gala, as well, and it was on the 22nd, and he was chosen as Volunteer of the
Year by the Chamber. So congrats Gerry on that.
[Applause]
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: And on the April 20th, the Drug Prevention
Coalition, we hosted a symposium at the Learning Center, and we had 75 people. And
the Mayor kind of opened our proceedings, but we had a panel discussion about drugged
and drunk driving. And a lot of parents and students were there, so it was a very nice
event. And our own Judge Melton from our Municipal Court was one of the panelists, as
well as one of our former Councilmen, Tait Elkie. So that went well.
On the 21st, Valley Metro, we had a board meeting. It was the first meeting for our new
Page 3 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 4 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
CEO, so that was always exciting. And that was -- later that day was the Fountain Hills
CARES event that I attended as well, and found it very informative as my mother-in-law
is in those stages of dementia, unfortunately. So it was very educational.
And the 29th, we had a vow to drive sober discussion at the high school. Junior and
senior classes did different presentations by a woman whose son was a drunk driver and
crashed head on, wrong-way driver, and then his best friend and passenger in the seat was
killed. And he lived for, like, another 18 years very disabled and so on, but he passed
away a couple years ago. But she gave a very, obviously, emotional presentation. It was
right before prom on the 30th, so we felt it had a good impact to the high school kids.
And then, Take Back Day. Well, welcome back, Captain Larry. It's good to see you.
And our Sheriffs Office and other folks coordinated the Take Back Day where we
collected prescription and other unwanted drugs out front here at Town Hall on Saturday,
and took in 59 pounds in 4 hours. So I just thought I'd pass --
MAYOR DICKEY: Wow.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. Well, Mike, you win. My husband's got
coworkers in town, and I've been entertaining them for two weeks.
I did go to the Chamber gala and I was going to say congratulations to Gerry, as well, but
Mike stole that from me. I did get a tour of the Bell Park Legacy Sports Complex with
the East Valley-- Phoenix East Valley folks. And I got to say, that place knocked my
socks off. It has every sporting event you can possibly think of, plus training to get better
at each sport. And it's for the kids, it's for the adults, it's crazy. Also, there's a bar, so
that's fun, too.
And then, of course, the Arizona League Legislative call yesterday. Otherwise, I've been
with the work peeps.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilwoman. Thank you, all. So I signed a letter
with 26 other mayors from the League asking Congress to allocate water infrastructure
funding dollars to Arizona. I went to the theater to do a proclamation for Ross Collins
and the 20th anniversary of the Fountain Hills Youth Theatre. Sister Cities, that was
great. Again, thanks to Christine Colley for getting that into Fountain Hills. And the
Award Gala was great. We gave the Mayor's award, which is really all of us, to the
Fountain Hills Medical Center and Emergency Room. They had won two other awards
Page 4 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 5 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
that night, as well. And I want to congratulate all of the nominees, and those who were
recognized, and the Chamber for a very successful event.
I was appointed to the nominating committee for MAG -- executive committee, so we'll
be doing that in the next year. They have the one-year term, so June is usually their last
meeting and then we take the summer off. We did have MAG regional counsel.
Yesterday, the Fountain Hills Civic Association -- Cultural and Civic Association had
their annual meeting at the Batchelor's Pad, and that was really good. They did a trivia
night, so that was --that was fun.
And then last,just to toot my own horn a little bit, 48 Women of the Decade --we had
that announcement a couple months ago, but we had the luncheon at the Biltmore. And it
was quite humbling and very nice to be there and recognized that way. That's a
Centennial Legacy project.
So that wraps that up. Our next item is the proclamation for Economic Development
Week. So next meeting, on the 17th, we're going to have a good presentation from
Amanda, but right now, I'm going to just come down and give her a proclamation.
Amanda, you want to come up?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: That's pretty good. She's been here less than two
months, and she gets a proclamation.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm going to give you the fancy one to hold, and then I will read
from the one that I can actually read. All right. You got it?
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT DIRECTOR JACOBS: I got it.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. This is Amanda Jacobs, our Economic Development
Director. And like I said, she'll be presenting at our next meeting. And also, a new video
just went up. I think Bo just put that up about tourism and Fountain Hills. There's no
town like it. So anyway.
Whereas, the International Economic Development Council -- come closer-- is the
largest professional economic development organization dedicated to serving economic
developers, and the International Economic Development Council provides leadership
and excellence in economic development for communities, members, and partners
through conferences, training, courses, advisory services and research, in-depth
publications, public policy advocacy, and initiatives such as the Accredited Economic
4•&'k .S@T kY=a-.4+-0iP.v„;*.wk+;3. r'.•:: =._ .' .L.,,n q}n ma;i..c*w+L44u.k4'. 'aiss;-s-tae is.A 's. ,.r---- 3+.xA;iit
Page 5 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 6 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Development Organization Program, the Certified Economic Development Designation,
and the Entrepreneurship Development Professional. Is that all?
So again, whereas economic developers promote economic well-being and quality of life
for their communities by creating, retaining, and expanding jobs that facilitate growth,
enhance wealth, and provide a stable tax base, and they stimulate and incubate
entrepreneurship in order to help establish the next generation of new businesses, which
is the hallmark of the American economy.
And whereas economic developers are engaged in a wide variety of settings including
rural, urban, local, state, provincial, and federal governments,public-private partnerships,
chambers of commerce, universities, and a variety of other institutions, and whereas
economic developers attract and retain high-quality jobs, develop vibrant communities,
and improve the quality of life in their regions. And economic developers work in
Fountain Hills within the state of Arizona.
Now, therefore, be it resolved, I, Ginny Dickey, on behalf of the Town of Fountain Hills
recognizes the week of May 9th through May 13th as Economic Development Week, and
remind individuals of the importance of the community celebration which supports
expanding career opportunities and making lives better.
There you go. That's a mouthful. Thank you.
[Applause]
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you want to say anything?
DIRECTOR JACOBS: Well,just thank you, to the Mayor and Council. In 2016, the
International Economic Development Council created this week just to raise awareness
on what economic development is, which, as you heard, is a mouthful. And so next
week, we'll have a social media campaign. And so we ask you to help share that
awareness and share those posts on the social media platform. And as the Mayor said,
there's a lot of exciting things -- I know that you know -- happening in our wonderful
town. And so if you guys have time, come to our next council meeting to hear of the
updates. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR JACOBS: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks so much.
Page 6 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 7 of 80
MAY3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Thanks so much. Next, we have our call to the public. Do we have any speaker cards?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: What about Rachael?
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. Wait. What?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Rachael?
MANAGER MILLER: We have a scheduled presentation, Mayor, on Independence
Day.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. It's not on my written one. Sorry about that.
Rachael, you're up. Thank you. Why don't I have that here?
COMMUNITY SERVICES DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Sure. Sorry. All right. I'm here
this evening to give an update on our
annual Fourth at the Fountain, our community Fourth of July celebration. And I know --
I've talked with a number of you -- I know this has been kind of a hot topic lately, and so
I wanted to just kind of bring and share some community information about where we
are. So these are some photos from our past events. I think most of you have seen them
or participated with them. It's a great time down at the park. Usually, our event is from
7 -- starts off at 7 with a band. We do fireworks around 9. We have a general attendance
of about 8 to 10,000.
These are our budgets. We have about $20,000 for our fireworks display, and then
another$30,000 to support all of the other amenities, whether that's our entertainment, all
of the portable items that need to come in, our road closures, and all the fees and what not
associated to put the event on. Just gives you a big picture idea of what we generally do.
However, this year, fireworks are really, really hard to procure. It is not just us; it is a--
it is a national issue. But the long and short of it is that roughly 70 percent of the
commercial-grade fireworks are manufactured in China. And due to a number of
circumstances, including staffing, including covid, including factory closures and
whatnot, they're really hard to procure. And then, if you can find them, they are quite
expensive.
So we've been watching this and working with our vendors since the first of the year.
Unfortunately, we were hoping to have some good news to share by this evening that we
were able to make -- you know, make some positive progress there. Unfortunately, that
is not the case. So what we've done is we've met with a lot of our other community
Page 7 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 8 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
groups around the Valley. We've been reaching out to figure out what is everybody else
doing? How are they managing this situation? And this is just a sampling of other
communities and where they're at with this conversation. A number of them are moving
with Fourth of July programs without fireworks. A number of them are looking to do
alternative entertainment, including drones or laser light shows. And others are altering
their date in order to procure fireworks when and where available. So this just gives you
an idea.
So where that leaves us. The way we -- the staff-- has looked at it, we have essentially
three options. One is to move forward with our standard event on July 4th. We have our
band, we would have our food trucks, we have a potential for a partnership with Bone
Haus. We would still need most of the supporting logistics. However, the likelihood of
getting fireworks is low.
Alternately, we could cancel the event hanging on to that budget. As you saw, it's not a
small budget, and reallocate that budget and still do -- and still light our fountain for that
evening.
Or we can work with a new fireworks vendor that does have the availability for an event
on July 1st, which is a Friday this coming year. So again, we would hold it similar to
what we traditionally do on the 4th. We would need -- we do recognize that we would
need to do an intensive marketing effort, because our Fourth at the Fountain is sort of our
label. So we would need to make sure that our community is aware of that change. And
again, as I mentioned, there is a budget escalation due to the increase in the fireworks
cost.
So this is sort of the three options we have in front of us. You'll note that the staff--
based on all of this information, the staff is recommending moving forward with the July
1st option in order to procure those fireworks as part of the event.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any questions? Discussion? Yes,
Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Thank you, Rachael. If option C is selected, is it a
lot more money?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: It's an increase of roughly$10,000.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you. So you already have it
Page 8 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 9 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
budgeted, basically?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So we know that our fireworks budget is traditionally
$20,000. The quote that we have is about -- is roughly $28,000. So anticipating any
other changes.
MANAGER MILLER: We'd be able to make the transfer to cover it.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: All right. Thank you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Could we still do C and the first, which is to light up the
fountain on the 4th?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely. We can do C and then still light the fountain on
4th of July that evening. Absolutely.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Well, that's -- that's the direction I'm leaning. So input.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Okay. Great. We just wanted to make sure everyone
understood that this wasn't a choice that, you know, we made to not have fireworks on
the 4th. That this is a large-scale impact to a lot of communities in the Valley.
MAYOR DICKEY: So you said we would have to, you know, get the word out. Either
way, we will if we're not doing anything on the 4th, right?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes. No matter what, we'll need to do that. Absolutely. But
given that we're already in May, 4th of July tends to sneak up on us pretty quick, so we
wanted to have enough time to create those, you know, create that marking effort and get
that out there before -- essentially by Memorial Day. So the end of the month.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: It's a shame because some of us that are traditionalists always
think, you know, you celebrate Thanksgiving on Thanksgiving, you celebrate
Independence Day on Independence Day, but things are -- the world's really messed up
right now, and we can't get the fireworks when we want the fireworks. But I think the
fireworks are an essential part, and I do like the idea that having the fountain at least lit
that night, special colors, to commemorate Independence Day.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely.
MANAGER MILLER: We're wanting to bring this before you tonight, because
Page 9 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 10 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
obviously, we were waiting to see if maybe our fireworks vendor that, as you can see,
does all the other fireworks presentations throughout the entire state, was going to be able
to come through, but they just haven't been able to. We want to act fast because we want
to lock in the date and be able to procure the fireworks. So that's something we can do
administratively. The amount is within my signature authority, so we wanted to get you
to weigh in and make sure that there was consensus for the staff-recommended option
here.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: If you guys recommend C, I totally support that.
But my only question is marketing. It's going to take some extra dollars probably, over
above and beyond what you actually already spend on marketing. Do you have any idea
what that would be,just so we would have an idea?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: You know, that's a great question. We have not put together a
marketing plan on this yet. Kind of-- it was kind of hinging on tonight's decision.
Obviously, we will -- we would leverage all of our social media partners. And I think we
can probably work with Bo to hopefully get the awareness out through some of our--
whether it's the news outlets and whatnot to make sure that we're on those lists of what's
happening, you know, on Independence Day weekend. Because I haven't -- it's not just
us that our moving off of this date, so I think there's going to be a lot of effort to make
sure that residents in and around the Valley are aware of all the things going on. So we'll
want to make sure that we're on those lists, whether it's in the Arizona Republic, or you
know, ABC 15, or wherever they are. So we'll work with our partners that way. If we do
find that we need to take out more ad space or have more paid representation, I think we
can certainly look into that. We have not put that plan together yet, though.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'll just put it out there that I understand what Grady was talking
about, too, and I mean, if we wanted to do something on the 4th and had lights and music
and that such, I'd be okay with that. If you end up -- that ending up being, like, too
expensive to go with this, or you know, the vendor doesn't seem quite right, or whatever.
I mean, I think the 4th of July is the 4th of July, too, and you have fun, and you have
music. You know, we could have patriotic music and such. So I'm fine if that's what it
ends up being, too.
Page 10 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 11 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Great.
MAYOR DICKEY: So we're not voting or anything like that. We're just giving you the
impressions.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yep. Just getting some feedback.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Awesome. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry I forgot you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That's okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: I printed out the old agenda. That's --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Quite okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: I wanted to mention that on one of the items on the agenda, 8-E, is
not going to be heard tonight. I don't know if Aaron, you want to kind of expand on that.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNSON: Sure. Mayor and Council, thank you. Yesterday, the
Town Manager, Development Services Director Wesley, and I had an informal meeting
with the developer and their representative. And they had some last-minute changes that
they wanted to see in the contract that we weren't aware of. So at this point, there
aren't -- there obviously isn't adequate time to make those and make sure that we're back
with the contractor to make sure that the vendor is okay with it. So we'll have to pull it
and consider it for the meeting on the 17th.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Yes, Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Aaron, are those changes things that we should be
aware of as a Council, or they're just --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: They're more --they're more technical changes in nature.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Specifically, to make it referenced in greater detail the
Development Agreement.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Because we were prepared to move ahead with that tonight,
but we cannot?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yes, correct, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All right. The next item is Call to the Public. Again, do we
Page 11 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 12 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
have any speaker cards? Try again.
CLERK KLEIN: Ed Stizza?
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I'll just remind you when you come up,please let us
know what city or town you're from, but not your actual address. Thanks.
STIZZA: Good evening, Madame Mayor, Staff, Council, and Residents of Fountain
Hills. So I apologize, I was still writing some of this back there. But can anybody
confirm what, who, where caused the blasting last week? And there seems to be some
confusion, and without legitimate answers, at least any that I've heard. I mean,
everybody assumes that--
STIZZA: -- everybody assumed that it was in Adero Canyon. So the Communications
Director confirmed that, supposedly, or at least the Town of Fountain Hills on the website
or on social media. So is there anybody that can answer that question, specifically?
MANAGER MILLER: This really isn't on the agenda, but I just will let you know that
we have not been able to confirm on where the source of that was. We do not believe it
occurred in town; we believe it was in one of the neighborhood communities, like at a
quarry.
STIZZA: So that damage has caused -- or I mean, that -- in those blasting incidences has
caused damage to several residences here, so it would certainly be nice to know where it
came from. So hopefully somebody can get on that and answer it. You know, so seems
to be a legitimate concern. Even Mayor Dickey had posted something on there, so I'm
sure everybody read it and I won't repeat it. But if you can answer that for the members
of the community, that would be great. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. We have our consent agenda, unless you
want to take something off. Can I get a motion, please?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Move to approve.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All in favor, say aye.
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Our first item is our consideration and possible action
on our budget. Grady?
MANAGER MILLER: Thank you, Mayor and Council and the public who are here
Page 12 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 13 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
tonight. One of the most important actions that the Council takes each year is the
consideration and adoption of its annual budget and Capital Improvement Program.
Before you is a budget that started basically last fall with the Department directors
submitting their requests, plus considerable review on the part of the Finance Director
and myself of those requests. And then, we also had our Council retreat where there was
quite a bit of input that was received from the Mayor and Council on their strategic
priorities for the next fiscal year. And so we started back in February with the Council,
and we've had a number of meetings with the Council, and then we also had a public
open house that we had prior to the Council having their budget workshop just before this
meeting last -- it was earlier in the month, correct?
So basically, budgeting is basically a spending plan that the Council puts together that
identifies the top priorities and strategic issues that they're trying to address over the next
12 months. And that's what you're going to see tonight. We have condensed it to be able
to get through it in a little bit less time than what we've done in the past. With that, I'll
turn it over to our Finance Director, David DIRECTOR POCK, who will be giving you a
presentation on it.
DIRECTOR DIRECTOR POCK: Great. Thank you, Mayor and Council. As Grady
said, we're adopting the tentative budget tonight. This is all information that you'd seen
before, except for these first couple slides. So hopefully we'll be able to get through them
a little quicker. Let me know if you have any questions along the way.
So first of all,just an update on our TPT collections for the current fiscal year. We're
doing very well. We've collected $12.8 million in TPT so far. That's through the end of
March. We don't have the April numbers yet. We had 12.1 budgeted, so as you can see,
we're about$700,000 above what we had thought we were going to have. Each of the
categories below is broken down. You can see construction is a little bit lower than what
we anticipated. Same with real estate, but real estate is very, very close. The two that I
want to point out -- I think I pointed them out last time -- is the restaurant and bars and
the services category. Done very well. We owe a lot to our town businesses and
residents that patronize those business. So any questions on the TPT?
MAYOR DICKEY: That first total, that's also to date, right?
DIRECTOR POCK: Correct.
Page 13 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 14 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So the 12.8 --
DIRECTOR POCK: Well --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- the 12.1 is not for the whole year; it's through March?
DIRECTOR POCK: Just through--just the first three quarters, correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. So then, the last time, as the Town Manager mentioned,
that we spoke about the budget was a proposed budget at the budget workshop. I just put
together this slide to show you changes that have been made to that proposed budget so
that you didn't have to go through and try and find each thing that had changed along the
way.
The first bullet point is a mistake that I made. It was something that I should have called
out during the proposed budget. The amounts for the proposed four percent increase --
cost of living increase -- was shown in each of the departments as far as the totals. I just
didn't call it out specifically as far as what was included there. So I wanted everybody to
be aware of that.
The next bullet point is --was quite a surprise at the budget workshop. I had mentioned
that we hadn't received the League estimates yet. Received them that Thursday, and they
were quite a bit higher than what I was expecting.
The State shared sales tax and the State shared income tax were quite a bit higher; made
up a majority of that $1.2 million that you see there. Most of it was from the income tax
that was collected in 2020 -- so calendar year 2020. If you remember the COVID
pandemic, DOR and the IRS had extended deadlines for filing. So that year, there were
actually two different dates that they collected taxes. A lot of that rolled into that
estimate that you see there.
Also, we increased the contingency in the Special Revenue Fund. That's basically
because of the infrastructure bill and the possibility that the Town could received some
grants from that-- from that bill. In case we do, we need the budget authority to use it.
Obviously, if it's not received, it doesn't get used. And that's in the Special Revenues
Fund, so it doesn't affect our General Fund.
However, with those last two bullet items, it did increase the overall budget number by
$5.4 million. As you know, we had increased revenues -- the $1.2 million. We had to
Page 14 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 15 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
AUMIMIIIMMNF
offset that in the General Fund by increasing our contingency numbers. We also have a
carryover from this year's CIP that we're going to carry over into next year, with your
approval. That's $100,000 for the Shae Boulevard widening. That's design doesn't look
like they're going to have that completely finished by the end of this year, and some of
that will have to move over into next year. That doesn't increase the budget for the
Capital Fund, it will just reduce the contingency that we had planned for that Fund.
And also, during the proposed budget, I had shown that the Safe Routes to Schools in the
Capital Projects Fund, a little bit more thought about that. We moved it out of the Capital
Projects Fund and into the Streets, because those specific items don't have projects.
They're studies to see what projects could be done, and without having a project to tie it
to, it shouldn't really be in the Capital Projects Fund. Any questions on those items?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah, maybe I'm getting confused. How much do
we have total for Streets?
DIRECTOR POCK: Streets, as far as the Fund balance for Streets, or how much?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah, Fund balance.
DIRECTOR POCK: I believe we are right -- I'm going to call a friend. Hold on one
second.
MANAGER MILLER: David, you actually have -- you have the Street Fund, I thought,
in this later in.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, it's probably in his presentation.
DIRECTOR POCK: Not the Fund balance, though.
MANAGER MILLER: Not the Fund balance? Okay.
DIRECTOR POCK: I just have the (indiscernible) amounts, so.
MAGAZINE: That's all right.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yeah. It's not going to be a large Fund balance at the end of this
fiscal year, because a lot of that does get used each year. So I can get that for you,
though. Any other questions? All right. I promise I'm not going to ask for questions
after each slide,because now we're going to go a lot faster. All of these bullet items
you've seen before, so.
Again, the Tentative Budget Book is available on the Town's website. I checked the link.
It does work. It does go to the book this time.
Page 15 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 16 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Again, budget authority is not the same as Fund balance. If we don't meet our revenue
projections, then we must reduce contingency and expenditures to maintain our Fund
balance. The absolute maximum for the Town for next year is recommended at $46.1
million total budget across all funds. The final budget that will be adopted on June 7th
can go below that number, depending if there's recommended changes, but it can't go
above that number.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: How does that compare with last year?
DIRECTOR POCK: I thought I had that summary in here, and it will be in the General
Fund. So if you give me a couple slides --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: That's fine.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. So as far as revenue assumptions, again, all the same
bullet points. How we come up with our revenue estimates, remaining conservative, we
don't include things that aren't finished yet and then, our state-shared revenue.
All right. So as far as the General Fund-- General Operating Fund for the Town, this --
you can see this year compared to next year. We did have a 9.4 percent increase from
this year to next year. A lot of that, again, is contingency, however, so it's not operating
budget per se. It's just the contingency to maintain balance funds.
So you can see the big difference in this one, the Intergovernmental Revenue, that's
where all the State-shared revenues reside. You can see that it had quite a bit of an
increase. The licenses and permits was down. We discussed this at the proposed budget
meeting, mainly due to construction activity. So this year, we had 22.7 percent in the
General Fund for budget and next year, we have 24.8. I do break it down just a little bit
here, too, as far as that contingency number. Obviously, with the inflation that we're
experiencing right now, we might be spending some more than what we're anticipating,
and that could cause us to use contingency if we're receiving revenues as were expected.
Contingencies included in the General Government Department within the General Fund
provides budget authority for increased operating costs and/or unforeseen expenditures
only if expected revenues are received. And as far as next year, that contingency number
is $4.4 million. So if you take the contingency numbers out of this year and next year
you can see we have about $700,000 increase this year or going into next year.
MAYOR DICKEY: I appreciate you pointing that out --
Page 16 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 17 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
DIRECTOR POCK: No problem
MAYOR DICKEY: -- because the-- you know, with all the CARES money, the relief
money, and such, we're -- it looks like a jump, but in reality, this is the real number right
here. And then contingencies are just that. And also, again, what we approve as the top
is the top. So it doesn't mean we have to do every project, or do everything, or spend
everything that's here. It just is sort of a cushion going forward, correct?
DIRECTOR POCK: Correct. Absolutely.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilman? Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: To that point, I'm just wondering, we've got a lot of projects
in here we may or may not do. Are we spending a lot of time by our employees and cost
by passing a budget that we don't think are essential items that may not be done? I'm just
making a point here. I don't know that all these things should be passed in this budget,
necessarily, if we're not going to do them. And then, it was mentioned once before that
we could always just cancel a contract. When you get that far down the line, though, a
lot of time, and effort, and money has been spent to get a contract. And then if we do
cancel a contract, we've wasted some effort behind that. So I just want to make that point
and say, hey, is it something that we should consider bringing something back midyear
and seeing where we are with the cost of inflation, supply chain, and other issues that are
going to affect this budget?
MAYOR DICKEY: Absolutely. We talked about this, and Grady can explain.
MANAGER MILLER: Right, so Vice Mayor, you bring up a really good point and this
had been discussed both at a staff level, and then the Mayor had asked me about it as
well. And so what I would suggest, because you're right, there's a lot of time and
involvement in trying to get these solicitations or requests for proposals out, and also
there's costs and expense on the part of the businesses that have to prepare and submit
those. So what I would suggest is when we get to the actual Capital or if you have
tonight, if there's any items, any projects that there were some concerns about, what we
could do is we could come back before you, before we actually go and do an RFP just to
check in with you on those ones that you identify tonight. And we'll keep track of those
and when it's time to check in with the Council and get direction from you, we'll do that
Page 17 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 18 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
before we go through the effort of trying to develop an RFP. Does that make sense?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Fair enough, yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. Well, then just to take a look at the supplements that
were presented. These remain the same from the proposed budget. I wanted to go
through the slides real quick, ask if there were any questions about any of them.
MAYOR DICKEY: Alan?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Probably not related to this slide, but how much
have we put aside -- we've gone through this -- put aside for the liner, and how much are
we putting aside this year for the liner?
DIRECTOR POCK: So right now, as of our discussions last year at this time, we
transferred in$1 million specifically for the liner-- or to be held for the liner in the
Facilities Reserve Fund. It's -- it was transferred this year. It's sitting there; it's waiting.
Next year-- or not next year-- next month, when we come to do the final budget, I'll also
have a slide on suggested transfers for approval for next fiscal year. And at this point,
and at the time of the proposed budget, I had recommended that another million dollars
be put into the Facilities Reserve Fund for that purpose. Doesn't mean that it absolutely
has to stay for that purpose; that would be up to Council direction.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: It won't surprise you, I 've made it clear in the past
that we don't know when we're going to need a liner. We may need to go to a bond for a
liner.
DIRECTOR POCK: Absolutely.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I'd rather have $2 million added to the -- to take out
of that fund for roads, which is what we really need, especially neighborhood roads.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I just want to keep that --
DIRECTOR POCK: I'm sorry.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: No, go ahead.
DIRECTOR POCK: I will say that this current year, we did transfer $2 million to the
General Fund Savings from the CARES Act at that point, into the Streets Fund for
pavement maintenance. There will be another recommended$2 million this -- for fiscal
Page 18 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 19 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
year'23 from the ARPA savings, as well. But that absolutely can be --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Will that give us $4 million?
DIRECTOR POCK: A total of just about 4.6, I believe.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: That's pretty good. It's gone up. Yeah. Thank you.
DIRECTOR POCK: It's a big chunk. It gives Director DIRECTOR WELDY quite a bit
of work to do.
MAYOR DICKEY: It was an extra $2 million, then most of the $4 million. And then
next year, when we get the other$4 million, too. But also, the liner money, that's all part
of our-- at least I understand -- of our Facilities or the set aside, so it doesn't have to go
for the liner.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right. Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: It's just -- so when you say, we wanted to put $1 million towards
that, that is it, and then another$500,000 in addition. Thank you.
Grady?
MANAGER MILLER: I'm sorry. I was just going to echo what you just said. Thank
you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Wait, before we slide away from that slide. I
just want to make sure and get it on the record. I've talked to Grady, but I watched the
October 6th Fountain Hills Unified School District board meeting, where they
specifically talk about the inspection of their facilities, one of which is the Four Peaks
Elementary School. I watched it, I took really good notes, and I also read the meetings of
the notes. I just wanted to make it official on record that I am very concerned about how
much money this building is going to cost to keep it up.
Grady, I'll let you speak to that.
MANAGER MILLER: Sure.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: But the words used were, end of life, and major
gut renovation requirements kind of thing.
MANAGER MILLER: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: So don't get me wrong. I love the BIZ HUB.
MANAGER MILLER: Um-hum.
Page 19 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 20 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I am a part of their Advisory Board. I'm very
pro it,but my concern is getting stuck with a lemon.
MANAGER MILLER: Right. So I had a very good discussion with the school
superintendent, and the understanding is if the Town Council were to give authorization
to have the Town enter into a lease agreement with the school district for the operation of
the BIZ HUB, the school district would be on the hook for all the major maintenance, the
roof, the AC units, all that. The Town would have minor costs and we'd have a threshold
of between 50 and $75,000 that we would not have to exceed each year on any
maintenance costs. We are having an internal meeting next Monday, and we're going to
be discussing some of those costs. Right now, there's been some recent activities related
to that-- to the BIZ HUB that I'm kind of questioning in my mind. And so anyways, if
the Council were to adopt this budget tonight and the BIZ HUB is in there, and then
there's a recommendation not to go forward with the BIZ HUB, the dollars that are here
will just not be utilized or expended. And so I don't want to get into too much detail, but
you bring up a really good point.
Now, when the school district is talking about with its Facilities Reserve Study and how
much has to go back into the building, they're looking at school standards and what is
required under State law of what they have to do in order to maintain a building. Totally
different requirement than what it would be used for what it's being used today. I will be
the first to agree with you, though, that the condition is not a very good condition of a
building. The school superintendent would also agree with that. So those are all being
taken into consideration before a formal recommendation will be coming back to the
Council.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madame Mayor. To piggyback off of
Councilman Grzybowski -- Councilperson Grzybowski's comments, I've been told that
there's a comprehensive engineering report and an inspection report about all the things
that are wrong with the school and everything. I have not seen a copy of that report.
That report hasn't been-- to the best of my knowledge --been made available to the
Council, so if that report does exist, I would like that report so that I could personally
review it. And I think the Councilmembers should also get the same copy.
MANAGER MILLER: We'll be bringing that forward to the Council on a decision, but
Page 20 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 21 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
we'll be happy to forward that on to you. It is a public record, and we'll forward that on
to you, Councilmember.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I know that we've talked about this and about what the
usage of that building could be. I look at-- you know, we did the Business Advisors
Business Hub for many, many years and supported them, and didn't have to do with the
building. So I think both of those things can exist, where we may not need the building
in order to continue to support that idea of the incubator. So there's a lot of discussion to
be had. But I guess just, almost like everything else here, if it's in here, if it's something
we've expressed anything about, you know, the shade structure or whatever, that those
will be things that before we moved forward, we'd have a lot more information. Thank
you.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. So the total for non-personnel ongoing supplements -- the
previous page, plus this one -- counting the offsets, $259,000. As far as one-time
nonpersonnel supplements, another 416,000. And then the personnel supplements, which
we discussed as well last time, are 222,000. So you can see just with the supplements
alone, that makes up a larger number than our$700,000 increase that we're talking about.
That's because other expenses were reduced as well. So we had a net change of
$700,000.
All right. As far as General Fund expenditures, these numbers should -- the bottom line
numbers should look very similar to what you saw on the revenue side. That's because
we have to have a balanced budget in the General Fund. Everything's got to match. So
they are.
All right. And then we're going to take a quick look at the other major funds. First, the
Streets Fund. The overall summary, you can see that the current fiscal year's revenues
and expenditures are a lot more even. That is because for next year, we haven't decided
on a transfer yet from the General Fund. And that will make up for that $2,000,000
difference there you see. As far as revenues, you can see the different breakdown.
Again, the transfer is not shown at this point in fiscal year'23. If the Council decided to
do another transfer of$2,000,000, then that -- obviously, that budgeted amount would
increase to six million. I will add, though, real quick,just before I confuse anybody. We
don't budget for transfers. The Council basically approves the transfers. That's because
Page 21 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 22 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
we don't want to double count expenditures.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Question.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: David, the investment earnings is based on what?
DIRECTOR POCK: Hope, at this point.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I mean, interest rates are about to skyrocket.
DIRECTOR POCK: They will get better. Unfortunately, as far as bond markets, when
interest rates rise in a bond market, what you're holding at lower interest rates tend to lose
a little value along the way. Nobody's wanting to buy low interest stuff. We're -- it's
rough. We don't have a lot of interest -- investment earnings for the current fiscal year,
and that's -- obviously we're just hopeful figures at this point.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Now, is that based on the bond market? Where do
we have the money parked?
DIRECTOR POCK: So right now we have about $19,000,000 with the Arizona
treasurer. That's basically slightly better than a money market or leaving it parked at the
bank. We're not making tons of money there, but it is liquid money, and we are able to
get that when we need it. There's another$13,000,000 that we have invested with PFM
investment managers. And that's a lot of government bonds and that sort of thing, some
commercial paper. That, we do earn a little bit more, but it's tied up and not quite as
easily accessible. It's kind of stair-stepped, as far as maturities and that sort of thing.
Obviously, the things that they're buying now are at the higher interest rate. So we'll
make a little bit more.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: What --
DIRECTOR POCK: They're about to go up.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah. What I'm reading is --
DIRECTOR POCK: (Indiscernible) well.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: -- likely have two half-point increases over the next
couple months. So --
DIRECTOR POCK: Absolute--well, from what I'm seeing is they're still planning on
trying to get a total of ten interest rate hikes in this calendar year. They've already had a
few. Tomorrow, our expectation is it'll be raised a half a point, which hasn't happened
}+'>.a.F3iaaM1S01i4iM '"`i:6n:: n. =.n'h,:.'e ♦ .. .. ..'. .: : r. ,. z, i.`::w.Fntt _•. ^..v'..o+.sM f ..:✓:v.':14:nSC",9P.ma6ill.�Y�W.!'itlf.
Page 22 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 23 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
since-- I can't remember the year. Maybe 2007, something like that. Just before the
housing market and that sort of thing took a dive.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: So you're not planning on spending the money yet?
DIRECTOR POCK: It's -- no. No. No, and thank -- and this is actually-- these
investment earnings projections are reduced from what we had for the current fiscal year.
So luckily, it's not a number that's going to affect being able to do a street or something.
So.
All right. So as far as expenditures, as far the other expenses basically is -- as far as the
Streets Fund is pavement maintenance. So we are expecting to do the same amount of
work next year as we're doing this year.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: All right.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yeah?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: The same amount of work, that's all maintenance, I
presume?
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Is it all on arterials? Is any of it neighborhood
streets?
DIRECTOR POCK: That's a great question, and I'd have to look at the public --
MANAGER MILLER: I'll --
DIRECTOR POCK: -- work strategies --
MANAGER MILLER: I'll --
DIRECTOR POCK: -- for an answer.
MANAGER MILLER: I'll go ahead and respond to it. It's a combination. So as you
recall, we went through a pavement management analysis; I believe it was in 2018. And
as part of that analysis, it did a ranking of our streets. And so basically, those that are
failing-- that are, like, in really bad shape tend to be the ones that we let go to the point
where we-- because of not having enough resources. And then we'll go ahead and redo
those.
So it is always -- each year, it's a combination. Obviously, the highest priority are the
arterials. We're going to be going into doing some preservative treatments on our Shea
and Saguaro, the most recent major arterial reconstruction projects that we've had. That's
Page 23 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 24 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
probably going to be close to $1,000,000 or so just for that. And then we're going to --
based on this software that goes through and analyzes our streets and the conditions, we'll
be able to bring forth a contract with the Council and you'll see what streets are going to
be done.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I know we've talked about this before, the coding of
Saguaro and Shea. $1,000,000, do we have any idea how long that lasts?
MANAGER MILLER: I'll let the Public Works Director come up and -- that's a
technical question. Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember. Ideally, the preservative seal
based on weather conditions should push us out another five years. Oftentimes, it'll be
slightly less. But we anticipate at least five years from this treatment. And in fact --
MANAGER MILLER: And that's not to say that the street will hold up another five
years. It's just that the treatment will last for five years before you have to redo it.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Both Shea and Saguaro are in relatively good condition as they
are mostly new. So this crack-filling and preservative seal will prolong their longevity by
an additional five years. But they have 25-plus years left in their life.
MAYOR DICKEY: Justin, this just reminds me. I've been asked about pavement miles.
And I know, you know, it's hard to put a finger on it because some of it is --we've been
redoing. But also a lot of preservation and, you know, chip-sealing and all of those
things. Is there any idea what miles this might translate to when it comes to 4.9 million?
I mean, I know it's potholes and curbing and all these other things, too. So is there any
sort of comparison?
DIRECTOR WELDY: And it's an excellent question, Madam Mayor. We won't know
the total distance or the lane miles we're able to accomplish until the projects have been
established. And then we get pricing on that, either through bidding or through our
existing contracts.
If I can reference this year, this year we are going to accomplish about six lane miles,
plus or minus, for locals and collectors. Obviously, this year, we are going to do Shea
and Saguaro before the end of June. So there's -- I'm not going to do centerline miles
because that one's a little bit more challenging. But about -- oh,just under seven lane
miles is what will be accomplished with those two.
Page 24 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 25 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MANAGER MILLER: And I just wanted to add, while these are general rules of thumb,
a lot of it has to do with the streets that are being replaced. So for instance, pre-
incorporation streets that were -- didn't have good base to begin with were -- it's going to
cost those more per linear foot or more per linear mile than what you would see other
streets. So the money doesn't go quite as far sometimes.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. So onto the capital projects fund, the final major fund.
As you can see, for next year we have a total of 8.16 million budgeted overall. Our
revenues, that green bar, obviously, is money coming in next year. We will have fund
balance of about 7.7 is what I'm guessing at this point. I'll have a little bit more revised
number next-- at the final budget. We're working on closing out projects at this point
and seeing where we're going to end up.
So as far as the cap -- I'm sorry. 4.4 million as far as ending fund balance for this year,
with excess revenues over expenditures from the General Fund expected to be about 3.5.
And then our TBT (ph.) sales tax of 1.1. Development fees, 275,000, making that 9.3
total available for projects next year. The recommended projects are the 7.7, and those
are listed here. Again, we talked about these at -- during the budget workshop, as well as
the CIP workshop that preceded it. Total of 4.9 for public works requests. And then as
far as park requests, 2.7 million. Total 7.6 basically for projects, and then we have some
contingencies as well and some funding that's going to be coming from the parks
development fees.
MANAGER MILLER: So Mayor, if I may, I just wanted to say this would be your
opportunity if you wanted to identify the projects that we discussed before that you may
want us to come back and check in with you before we proceed with RFPs.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think just judging from our previous discussions, the overlook, the
roundabout, the shade structure over at Centennial Circle were -- would all be ones that
we would want to see back. Wayfinding signs. Everybody okay with that, pretty much?
Yeah. Is there anything else that jumps out that you want to make sure that we would
have more discussion before we went out for RFPs and such?
MANAGER MILLER: Those do seem to be a good memory. Those were the ones that
seemed to have the most discussion, I recall, from the Council.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Alan?
Page 25 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 26 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Am I missing it? I don't think it's part of cabinet
projects. Where is that shade structure?
MAYOR DICKEY: It's in the parks.
MANAGER MILLER: It's right here.
DIRECTOR POCK: It's the last item.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Oh.
DIRECTOR POCK: Centennial pavilion.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Oh, okay. Thank you.
DIRECTOR POCK: I should've put Rachael's umbrella in (indiscernible).
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Picture of her next to it.
MAYOR DICKEY: But yeah, I don't think there was too much else. But again, you
would make sure that we wouldn't--
MANAGER MILLER: That's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- step out too far on any of those.
MANAGER MILLER: So what we'll do is we'll check in with you and definitely get the
Council, if need be, to vote on those before going forward on a solicitation for a request
for proposal.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I guess I don't understand the process. Why would
we wait? Why would we wait?
MANAGER: Well, you didn't vote on these when we were -- when we had the Council
budget workshop on the capital. And it was not clear from the staff perspective if there
was a majority that had a feeling one way or the other. So if you wanted to deny it, you
can actually vote on these individually. But I was trying to keep it simple. And when
you say, why would I wait, I would wait when we are into the new fiscal year. And when
we are getting close to wanting to go ahead and start doing the paperwork and get ready
on an RFP, we come to you before we do that.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Well --
MANAGER MILLER: It would save effort is what I'm trying to get at.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Okay. I'm willing to wait, but you know how I feel
about the shade structure and the engine -- the design of the roundabout. We can do it
whenever you want.
Page 26 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 27 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MANAGER MILLER: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Let me just put a little bit -- what Grady was talking about is we
don't-- there's some things we don't know yet. There's billions of dollars coming to
Arizona in infrastructure bill. Once that starts to kind of trickle down, we could get --we
could apply and we are applying for projects for that.
I also wanted to mention, and I know that we talk about the overlook, that I'm going to
be-- I've had some input from some businesses, and we're going to be having a meeting
soon. And I would just like the opportunity to hear what their thoughts are that are
downtown, if they think it's worthwhile, if there would be some support for it.
And then as far as the roundabout goes, if that's looked at as a safety infrastructure
project, that could be something that we could get paid for, too. So I -- that's why if we--
you know, there's no harm in keeping it now. Then maybe later we'll have more
knowledge and we'll know whether to take it off. Thank you.
MANAGER MILLER: And just for clarification, if the projects don't go forward, the
money stays in the capital fund, and it's there, available for use, you know, for future
projects.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. Now I made it to my questions slide. So that's it.
Congratulations, you've survived your last --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- tentative budget, Council.
MAYOR DICKEY: : All right. Do we have any speaker cards on the budget? Any
questions? More discussion?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Good work. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. The motion is on 96.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: So would you move to approve resolution 2022-18;
is that it?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yep.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye.
TOWN COUNCIL: Aye—in unison.
Page 27 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 28 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks a lot. Thanks for all your work.
Next item, Grady.
MANAGER MILLER: Thank you, Mayor. Mayor and Council, Development Services
Director John Wesley is going to be giving a staff presentation on considerations
regarding amendments to the group home regulations. With that, I'll turn it over to Mr.
Wesley.
MAYOR DICKEY: I just want to remind you two, this was the hearing so I don't have to
start the hearing again because we continued it. But then when we're done and we have
the public input again, we will close the hearing and then move on. Thanks.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Okay. Mayor and Council, good evening. I'll try to move
through this quickly because we have discussed quite a bit of this before. But I'll give
you an update on where we are and some of the questions that you still had from our last
meeting.
So again, the planning zoning commission, after extensive review, did make a
recommendation to the Town Council with regard to amendments to our group home
regulations. You hold a hearing and begin that hearing on April the 5th. At that meeting
you were able to give staff some direction on quite a number of the items. I think we had
16, 17 items on the list, and 11 or 12 of them you were able to give us direction on. So
we were able to amend the ordinance based on that direction -- that amended ordinance
with a strikethrough, so you can see those differences was in the packet. So if there were
anything we got incorrect from that previous discussion, please let me know. But I went
back and relistened to the discussion, so hopefully we got it all correct there.
So what I found after that was that there were five items that the Council wanted to
discuss further and have a little bit further information on. Those are listed on this page.
And we'll discuss each one individually as we go forward here. So I've ordered these in
what I think may be the easier ones to the harder ones. But I know they're all hard ones.
So we'll go with this order that I have.
So what I'm going to have to do is the unannounced inspections. Section 15, 5.13(b).
There's some items. So that would be part of the registration. Number 2 on that list
includes a statement that the applicant would agree to allow town officials to enter the
premises on unannounced inspections to inspect for land use violations, including the
Page 28 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 29 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
number of occupants. This type of inspection is not required for any other land use that
we do. And so we find that a little bit difficult. I reviewed a number of other
jurisdictions for their ordinances to see if anybody else is requiring this. The closest I
found was at Apache Junction. Ordinance does include an option for an annual
inspection, but don't know that they do that on a regular basis, and it wasn't an
unannounced inspection. It was just to check against a checklist from the state. And then
Tempe does do an annual fire inspection.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we do a fire inspection, right?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Right, annual fire inspection.
MAYOR DICKEY: Our-- we do that. And does not include the option for an annual
inspection. The state can do unannounced annual -- any inspection, correct?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct. That's my understanding.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And they are the licensing body?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct. With the Towns, that is really just a registration of that
license.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just want to put a little finer point on it. Only the
state can do that, correct?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Only the state can do the unannounced inspection, yes.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Any other discussion or comment with that one? If not, we
can--
MAYOR DICKEY: I do just have a question about the process. So as far as what you
already wrote up, did you -- like, let me get to the point where we're actually amending it
or not amending it and passing something. Would this be something that would have to
be removed? Is that in the ordinance right now?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: They are -- no. What is in your packet is an ordinance that it
just includes the changes from the last meeting.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: But I think if you're -- this is a distinct sentence in that section.
So it'd be very easy for the Council to say, you know, we approve the ordinance with the
deletion of that sentence, if that's what you want to do. Or you don't, if you want to keep
Page 29 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 30 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And Aaron --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Something to be very easily--
MAYOR DICKEY: Aaron is nodding, so.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: -- moved forward this evening unless we, you know, really
change things around a lot.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: But I'll just come back at handling these, each one in the motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Got it, thanks.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Mayor, Council, I was just going to add that it may well be that
after we discuss whatever number of changes the Council wishes to see or needs to take
place, we might take a couple of minutes to just make sure that our strikethroughs all
look good and then reconvene for the Council to hopefully adopt the ordinance.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yep.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Item two on the list was insurance. So again, Section 5.13(b),
listing the items to be provided. Registration number 5 on the list, I won't read the whole
thing this time, but it requires the amounts of liability insurance and the waiver of
subrogation for the Town. As we've discussed this in the past, we've pointed out that,
you know, it could be necessary for the Town to receive this to make sure these
businesses are being run properly and then, if so, are these amounts appropriate and is the
waiver necessary.
So some of the previous discussion, it was pointed out from some of the public that
Prescott, Phoenix, and Mesa have insurance requirements. In investigating those, it was
discovered that was based on their ordinances when they were licensing structured sober-
living homes and applied just to those. And that was prior to the state passing their
legislation in 2019. And the jurisdictions of the provisions sunset based on the state
legislation or they've actually repealed them. So they don't have those requirements
actively in their ordinances today. As I looked through the other ordinances, I did not see
Page 30 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 31 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
any within their group home, assisted living provisions that any were requiring insurance.
We also have a concern that if we had this, if it would actually be enforced or not.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any further discussion? Just to be clear, any city that
had it before the state law changed has either repealed it or sunset it?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Separation distance. Section 5.13(a) lists the basic requirements
for homes, and that includes a separation distance as recommended by the PNC (ph.).
They put in a half mile or 2,640 feet. This is -- distance is measured, straight line,
property to property. The overall goal of the code is to allow for these homes, but not
create an overconcentration. And so that's what we're looking for, is what distance would
achieve that goal.
Currently in our existing ordinance that's in effect today, our separation distance is 1,200
feet. In the jurisdictions that I looked at, the greatest distance separation that I found was
1,320, or a quarter mile. You can see the communities that have that. Next is the number
of jurisdictions, similar to Fountain Hills, that have the 1,200. And then some that were
smaller, Oro Valley, Prescott, Cave Creek. And then a couple that had no separation
requirements in Flagstaff and Sedona that I could find.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just want to emphasize. So of all the jurisdictions
you looked at, 1,320 was the most; is that correct?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: That's the greatest distance I could find in any Arizona
jurisdiction.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Any other questions or comments with that? (Indiscernible)
another slide on-- I guess I do have one more slide. And so again,just some of the
things we've looked at before. We looked at where we change 100 block designation in
town. It's approximately over 600 to 700 feet. We did a review of all the block lengths
in town, measured every block length, then divided that by the number of blocks and
came up with an average length of 560 feet, approximately. So if you use those as kind
of some guides for separation, I think that might be helpful.
There's been some concern about some of the environmental impacts you get from
Page 31 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 32 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
some -- the way people have experienced some of these homes. Some of those
environmental impacts could be addressed by addressing those specific codes rather than
addressing it this way.
And then at the last meeting, there was some talk about -- well, the current distance is
1,200. PNC had recommended the 2,460. Maybe we cut that in half. So I'll just provide
that number as another point of reference. 1,830 would be that number if Council wanted
to go that way.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I just want to, I think, emphasize based upon my
knowledge of this that 1,320 is the most for any jurisdiction.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: That's the most I've found.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And this, it says 1,830.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And I know some people have said, go to court,
don't worry about it. But I think this may be a red flag. So I think we have to be careful.
MAYOR DICKEY: Just to make it clear. The distance is between property lines?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct. Property line to property line is where we do it.
MAYOR DICKEY: So, you know, we were discussing the canyon aspect and such. And
this would stop anything from being, like, back to back or anything like that.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yeah, that's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: There would be --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Because it's a--
MAYOR DICKEY: -- definitely be buffers.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: -- that circle around. So most canyons aren't that way--
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, yeah. Like --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: -- and if they were, then it probably would take care of it. It's
just that the contrast is in Prescott, where they do measure theirs along the street. And by
doing that, you could have something back to back because they can go around the block
and be there. So that's not what we're talking about. That's not the way it is today.
Moving on. The next item is the number of residents. Section 1.12, the zoning ordinance
provides definitions. Here in this section, we are amending what we've -- it used to be
four in terms of having a group home designation -- definition and change it to
Page 32 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 33 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
community residences. And then subdividing that into two types, family residences and
traditional -- transitional residences, excuse me. The recommendation from the PNC is
that the family residences would be a maximum of eight, including staff, and that the
transitional would be six, including staff. Currently, our ordinance is ten not including
staff So all of the existing homes out there have that potential to be that size.
Get us a look at the other jurisdictions. Found -- excuse me. Found one or two cities
here where I did not see any cap to the number. Prescott has 12. You can see the number
there of ten, excluding staff. And then a few of ten, including staff. And there are three
jurisdictions that do set a limit at five. All those are caveat with Gilbert. Both Chandler
and Tempe do set theirs at five. They do have their waiver procedures that can allow for
more than that, but that's what their standard is. Gilbert is five, a limit when it is not
licensed to the state. But if they are licensed to the state, then it can go up to 10.
Any questions on that one?
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm more comfortable seeing that there's a couple with six. And
then as long as transitional can be treated differently from what we called more
permanent, then the eight and the six seems like something that would be totally
allowable.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yes, Mayor. As we have looked at that and thought about that,
when we're talking about the transitional homes, those are the people staying there
typically for a shorter period of time. So there's more turnover. And so there's maybe a
little bit more impact on the neighborhood, less stability for the neighborhood, so forth
with the transitional. So I think there is justification there for some consideration of a
difference.
So the last item, then, would be waivers. The terminology here has been a bit confusing
and so tried to address that by just calling it a waiver. There might be some other terms
to use, modification or adjustment. We believe it is important to have that option spelled
out in the code for a waiver or a deviation,just like we do variances for other parts of the
code, so we can consider unique situations and address them specifically. The ordinance,
as provided to the Planning and Zoning Commission, did include a section on those.
There's some concerns about how that was worded, how it might be implemented. And
so they took that provision out of the ordinance that was recommended to you.
Page 33 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 34 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
As I've looked at, again, the other codes, I found that most jurisdictions do provide for
some type of waiver. And so we would suggest that we put something back in, but with
some changes from what went to the PNC. We're suggesting some kind of waiver
committee. This is one option that's on here. Town manager, (indiscernible) service
director, member of one of our boards. We could change that in any number of ways.
One staff person and two board members could be another way that could be done.
Another citizen might be appointed. But we think something like a three-member board
of some kind so it's not just one person, but we don't want to get unwieldy by having too
many. So a three-person. And then there's the potential, if we wanted to, to have an
appeal from there. It doesn't have to have one. But put that out there as a possibility.
And then compared to what we provided to the Planning and Zoning Commission, beefed
up the language a little bit in terms of the standards, to make it clear that you can't just
come in and say I want it because I want it. We need real information and documentation
to justify that these people we look at and review in order to grant a waiver to the
standards.
MAYOR DICKEY: The list there, the bullets is going to depend on what they were
asking--
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct. Right. Because something might not fly.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- what the waiver is for, but having it defined as much as possible,
and I think having the three-person committee available -- we talked a little bit about that
in the past. Do you have anything to --thank you, David.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I personally would like to
see the town manager dropped from this process. I believe it should be the Development
Service director, a representative from the Board of Adjustments, and a representative for
Planning &Zoning, since they have intimate knowledge of planning and zoning in the
Town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So that would be still three people. So that's good. And then
probably the appeal to Town Council might not be necessary because there's going to be
a natural progression to this, anyway. So we'd have the Board of Appeals chair, P&Z
chair. Does it have to be chair? Kind of makes sense, but I guess it doesn't have to be.
And then development director, and then that would be it. And then afterwards,
Page 34 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 35 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
whichever way it went, then they would -- then they're -- where would they go after that?
They could either just accept it -- I mean, if it was --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- accepted, then that would be the end of it, right?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Right. If the combination were granted, that would be
the end. And I suppose the language could be really whatever we want it to be for that
group of three, but either the chair, or his or her designee, or simply a member. However
we want to do it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So then if the chair is not available, you're not bound,
you know, to have to do it by--
MAYOR DICKEY: Alan?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: If an individual were to buy a home, and get State
certification, but they said, you know, we can't get the return on investment we need. We
need to allow more people. Is that appealable for a waiver?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So the simple answer is yes. If they feel like they need
more than -- whether it's the eight or the six, depending on which type of home it is --
yes, they can request a waiver to that. But they would need more justification than well,
this just isn't working out for us financially. They have to -- again, there's -- I'll just
summarize it here, but there's the five criteria that would be looked at carefully by the
three-member committee, to ensure they really have a justification, and not just a desire --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just a financial justification.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- financial -- right.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: And I thought we were going to reconsider the
appeal to the Town Council, maybe delete that. I mean Aaron, do we need to include the
appeal to judicial type? Do we name that? Or just don't do anything, or --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah. I mean, we certainly could. But a denial of an
accommodation would be something that a person could take for a judicial remedy
anyway. Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: And to Alan's point, too, as far as somebody buying a house, and
Page 35 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 36 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
starting something new, they would know these rules were in place, which brings up the
idea of grandfathering, and-- do we have -- are we going to talk about that?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Mayor, I did not include that in the presentation. It
was in the staff report, since it wasn't actually an ordinance proposal at the time. So it's
not here. So there are specific provisions in the ordinance that this would fall under on
how we treat any time we change a code, and have a legally approved use going on, or a
property, and we allow it to continue as long as it doesn't change within certain
parameters. So that's would we had to anticipate here. There have been some questions
about well, what if somebody owns a home, a group home of some kind, and then they're
tired of it so they sell that to somebody else. And then the new operator comes in. That
new operator is going to need to get a new license. And when they get a new license,
they have to register that license. And so that new license would need to then follow the
new code. And so as we've talked about that a little bit, it may be helpful to add a
paragraph in the code, to make sure that's clear. And we can sure do that. It's one of the
things that we can get back to Council, if you want to do that here. As the attorney talked
about, if we take a break, we can get that language put together--
MAYOR DICKEY: And I would also add that -- so you called this in the past, and we
talked about places where the zoning got changed around them. It's called legal
nonconforming use.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: And just to point out, it's not legal to reduce those uses for people
that are there already. So we kind of solved a little bit about that, and we talked about
parking, and some of these other items over the years, where they had a certain kind of
zoning. So we changed the zoning, but we can't change the value or the use of the
property, as long as it's that same person, and they don't change it a lot. So this would
just be something that we already have in place for a town?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. David?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just as a point of
clarification, and the town attorney can jump in, I've received numerous emails from
residents who are like, don't worry about getting sued. You know, pass it, let's see what
Page 36 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 37 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
happens down the road. I think as a point of clarification, it's important to note that
someone who seeks remedy or a waiver, first has to come to the Town and request the
waiver, and then be denied the waiver in order for them to legally go into court and take
it from there. So I think it's important to note that you can't skip that process -- if I'm
talking out of turn, Aaron -- you can't skip that process of coming to the Town for a
waiver and go directly to court, because if you go to court, the first thing the court's going
to ask is did you seek a remedy within the Town. And -- they're not going to ask that?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: No, absolutely.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Oh, you're shaking your head no.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: No, that's going to be the first -- Mayor and Council, that will
be the first thing they say is, you know, if the Town finds itself in that situation, the
defense is well, we don't know whether they would have gotten an accommodation or not
because they never asked. Right? And so the court is going to send that back to work
through the administrative process. It's called exhaustion of administrative remedies, and
you stated that very well.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay. Just for everybody out there, we can't just jump
right to well, I'm going to sue. You first have to seek a remedy within the Town, then if
you don't like what you hear, then you can escalate it from there. But there's no jumping
the system.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: And Mayor and Councilmember, I'm glad you brought that
up,because that is one of the main reasons to have this in the code, because if we don't
have it in the code, then they are jumping straight to the courts.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: In addition, under Section B, Application
Requirements, number 8, it says "the applicant shall attest that they will provide all
evidence permissible by code and authority, having jurisdiction necessary in response to
a code enforcement inquiry". And I would like to ask that in particular, occupancy logs
be omitted because we don't require occupancy logs, and I don't think we're allowed that
information. Correct, Aaron?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So Mayor and Council, I want to make sure that I am looking
at the right section. It looks like it's page 5.
Page 37 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 38 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Yep.
ARNSON: Okay, we're talking about Section 3? Okay. 8, "the applicant shall" -- I see
where you are. I see where you are. And you take --Councilwoman, you take issue with
the language, in particular occupancy logs?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Urn-hum.
ARNSON: Yeah. I will say that leaving it or removing it probably doesn't make a
material difference, so I'd be fine with removing that last phrase, because we're still
requiring an attestation that the applicant will provide all evidence permissible--
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Hm.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: -- that we can get ahold of. So there's not necessarily a reason
to make anything specific unless John sees a different basis for it.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: You're fine either way.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Okay.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Because I agree, that first phrase covers it.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Um-hum.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: I thought we weren't allowed, you know, the last time we hadn't
talked about it.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Oh. That may well be. I've lost track of where we've -- in part
of where we've been. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm glad you brought up code enforcement, because that is still
something that you can do with anything going on in town, where our code enforcement
can go. If it's litter or noise or call MCSO, if there's something else going on that needs
attention. So since the State is the licensing body, and they're the ones that can do
inspections, and they require the license, they can -- so basically, they're in charge of
some of the enforcement that, I think, concerns some people. And then there are some
things that we can do, and which we're doing now with these changes in our ordinance
that are within the law. I wanted to also mention that some of the discussion we heard,
and when-- David, when you were just mentioning going and getting sued and such, that
we are part of a risk pool, we are, and risk pools we have the deductible and such, but it's
not the same as any-- I mean it is the same. Like, you have health insurance, you have
all kinds of insurance, and then there's all kinds of stipulations to that if you do
Page 38 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 39 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
something. If you enact something that's just blatantly not lawful, then the risk pool isn't
going to necessarily defend you, or -- depending on who's doing charges against you. So
it's just not as simple as saying it couldn't be any more than $10,000. And then some
cases, if it's a land use issue, there's a cap of$1 million. So if it was more than $1
million-- so it's as simple and cut and dry as it might seem when you just kind of look
stuff up, which I can understand doing, and we appreciate that because the information
that we got from folks had us looking into things a little bit more, and feeling like we
have a lot more clarity about all this. So I want to thank you for that. Should I go with--
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor, again?
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. Go ahead.
MANAGER MILLER: No, I just wanted to thank you for clarifying those issues, and the
other point. I know, Aaron, you talked about in the past, as far as if we were to lose a
suit, a lot of times the biggest bill in such a thing is attorneys' fees, and those aren't
typically reimbursed in that kind of scenario by the risk pool. You want to clarify?
ATTORNEYARNSON: They may be, they may not, depending on how the pool kind of
interprets the policy. Right? So I just-- to the Mayor's point, and to your question,
Councilman, without getting into the details, I can't get into them, but I just recently
resolved a case for another municipal client. And that one happened to be one where the
pool defended under, they call it under a reservation of rights, which means that they later
determine that there was something amiss for which they shouldn't have provided
coverage, that there will be sort of an indemnity obligation, right? And the pool in this
instance very well may, and I believe will exercise that right. So to both of your points,
it's not as straightforward. Insurance issues never are, as I think anyone who's ever tried
to use insurance can appreciate.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do we want to go to call the public now? Are y'all ready for that?
Okay. I think we'll do that. And then -- well, I don't close the hearing until after they
speak, right? Okay. So if we have call to the public, and then we can close the hearing
and vote. Speaker cards?
CLERK KLEIN: First one is Marianne Sampson.
MARIANNE SAMPSON: Thank you everyone for giving me a chance to speak tonight.
I must admit public speaking is not for me, and standing before you takes me completely
Page 39 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 40 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
out of my comfort zone. But this is so important, that I felt that everyone needed to hear
what I have to say. Most people don't believe in love at first sight. But I know it exists
because I experienced it four times in my life. When I met my husband, when I first laid
eyes on my two children, and the fourth time when I crossed a mountain range from
Scottsdale into Fountain Hills. The beauty of this town totally took my breath away. We
bought a house here, and after living in more locations than I can count, I felt that I
finally had come home. That was 25 years ago. Due to job opportunities elsewhere, we
had to leave a few times. But we held onto our home because we knew if we worked
hard, and saved our pennies, we would one day return.
That day finally happened two months ago when we retired. After 15 years in New York,
we were so excited to finally come back. But to our disappointment, it feels so different
now. And I'm so, so sad to say that our beautiful house no longer feels like home. A
home to me is a place where you feel totally at ease, where you feel comfortable, and
where you feel safe. But due to lack of regulation for commercial businesses operating in
residential neighborhoods, I no longer have any of those feelings. See, I happen to live
right next door to one of these rehab "homes". "Homes" in quotes because they don't
even come close to resembling a home. Next door to me is a revolving door of different
men all the time, spending their time watching my coming and going and every move,
and it's very unnerving. I can no longer enjoy sitting outside without being watched and
pestered with smoke and vaping from ten grown men next door to me. And let's say I
want to sell my home and move. Who would want to buy it? Who would want to live in
a commercial zone, because that is what my neighborhood has become. So I beg you,
when you vote, please consider how it is living in my shoes next to one of these
businesses. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
CLERK KLEIN: Ron Sampson.
RON SAMPSON: Dear Madam Mayor. Fellow Councilmembers. Thank you for the
opportunity to share with you our perspective on what my wife Maryanne and I consider
to be a defining issue for our town and its residents. My comments today follow an email
letter that we sent to each of you on April 6th after attending last month's Town Council
meeting. We'd like to acknowledge and thank yourself, Madam Mayor, Vice Mayor,
Page 40 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 41 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Councilmember Grzybowski, for your thoughtful replies and your feedback, and I look
forward to hearing perspectives from the rest of you. As my wife just described to you,
living once again here in Fountain Hills now feels very different. Next door, vans with
smoke-tinted windows arrive and depart frequently, almost clandestinely, multiple times
a day. Each evening, we see several men, often not the same, out on the deck
overlooking our house. Seeing them makes me uncomfortable. I can't imagine how it
makes my wife and daughter feel. We now live next door, as she said, to one of those
sober living homes. A commercial, for-profit business, and no longer a residential
neighborhood. And because drug and alcohol abuse are linked with higher probability to
commit a crime, quite frankly, we don't feel safe in our home.
When I speak of recovering addicts, I recognize the overwhelming majority of these men
are good people who have had a bad break. And we fully support the concept of
providing them an opportunity to get their life back on track. I also know that
statistically, and with the constant turnover next door, we are now at a substantially
higher risk of encountering someone who is going to commit a crime against us. So it is
critically important to us that you, the town leadership, move forward to regulate these
businesses, beginning with the adoption of Ordinance 2101.
I cannot stress enough how important it is that the capacity limits proposed by Planning
and Zoning are adopted as part of this ordinance. With no grandfather clause associated
with this limit for these detox rehab center pop-ups. And couple that with the ability to
inspect them, without notice, as an aid for law enforcement. Simply allowing these
commercial businesses to operate in our residential neighborhoods is already more than a
reasonable accommodation. Because of the increased crime risk associated with
recovering drug and alcohol addicts, it also is essential that these businesses carry
additional liability insurance. It's not a typical business. Please adopt the proposal put
forward by Planning and Zoning. Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, it is imperative that
you come together and correct this situation by enacting Ordinance 2101, and approving
a version that restores the essence of our community. Thank you for listening.
[APPLAUSE]
MAYOR DICKEY: Please. Please refrain from applause. I'm asking you,please.
Next?
Page 41 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 42 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
CLERK KLEIN: Natalie Marston-Salem.
MARSTON-SALEM: Good evening Mayor, Council, and staff. I will start by
introducing myself again for those who may not remember. My name is Natalie
Marston-Salem. My husband, John Salem, and I are the owners of Fountain Hills
Recovery. At last month's Council meeting, I spoke about how our facility came to
fruition because of the loss of my father, Maurice, a dedicated fire captain for nearly 30
years. Tonight I would like to take the time to address the rumors, gossip, and
misconceptions, specifically about our facility, and our two sober living homes within the
Town. We first opened and began serving our clients in late 2016. For many years, a lot
of you probably didn't even know we existed in Fountain Hills because of the fact that the
issues being raised are simply not accurate.
Our two sober living homes are both licensed by the Arizona Department of Health, as
well as AZRHA, the Arizona Recovery Housing Association. Our inpatient and
outpatient facilities are also licensed by the Arizona Department of Health, and
accredited by the Joint Commission, an organization that accredits health care
organizations and programs, holding them to the highest standard of care. This is not a
requirement, but something we feel is a necessity in order to provide the highest level of
quality care for our clients. I would like to stress that our homes are not detox homes, as
I have frequently seen them referred to on community social media pages. There are no
detox services being offered or provided to clients. In order to be residents in our homes,
clients are currently receiving therapeutic services daily in our clinical program at our
facility overlooking the fountain. Our homes are staffed 24/7, and clients do not have
access to their cell phones, nor do they have access to come and go in their personal
vehicles. They are all in the care of our well-trained staff at all times.
Our sober homes have not been the subject of any identifiable or substantiated criminal
concerns. There have been no arrests, no property crimes, no graffiti, no destruction on
public property, no noise ordinance complaints, no drug arrests, no public intoxication
incidents, and no petty crimes associated with the sober living homes operated by
Fountain Hills Recovery. In fact, there has not been any police interactions or code
enforcement issues relating to such homes. Furthermore, none of our homes have been
shut down by the State agency, as claimed by one member of the community.
Page 42 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 43 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
The claims from residents that drug paraphernalia found in the Town belongs to our
clients is absolutely false and unsubstantiated. Sadly, these are outright lies and
falsehoods aimed at shedding a negative light on addiction treatment, sober living homes,
and specifically our facility. I find it very disheartening and sad that there are those in
this community to go out of their way to rally against a facility that has done nothing but
good for the community and changed people's lives -- actually saved people's lives.
I want to make it abundantly clear that this is not just a business to us. We are
passionate about what we do, and how we are able to help others change their lives and
overcome their addiction. My husband and I are both at the facility every single day
overseeing the quality of care our clients receive, and always looking for ways to
improve and serve our clients to the best of our ability. I hope and pray for those of you
who have been so openly against individuals seeking treatment in sober living homes in
Fountain Hills, that you never have to experience having a loved on struggle with
addiction.
MAYOR DICKEY: If you please --
MARSTON-SALEM: I am hopeful and optimistic these types of open conversations will
allow us to have an open mind and some compassion to help those who are in need.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MARSTON-SALEM: Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Ma'am, excuse me. What town do you and your
husband resign in?
MARSTON-SALEM: I'm sorry?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: What town does (sic) you and your husband reside in?
MARSTON-SALEM: We live in Scottsdale on 130th and Shea.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Lori Troller.
TROLLER: Councilmen. Mayor. In front of you, there's a application from the State for
a sober home. And that came from the Arizona State website. Highlighted for you in
there is the fact that random alien individuals merely traveling through the United States
can apply for a sober home. In case you're ignoring the fact that the United States
borders are open, and that millions of illegals don't disintegrate when they walk into the
Page 43 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 44 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
country, sober homes is one of the methods used to integrate illegals into the United
States. So how can that be? And so let's look at the form. The only information required
of an individual to apply for a sober home is their name, their physical and email address,
and a phone number. That's it. The only form of identification required to apply for a
sober home ranges from a driver's license to merely an I-94 form, which states an
individual is traveling through the United States. And it's worth mentioning that up to
100 people can apply on one I-94 form.
As an illegal who can't fill out this form, that's addressed in here, too. There's a section
for somebody else to fill it out for them. So there you have it. Those are the State
requirements to apply for sober home ownership in Arizona. A name, address, a phone
number, and an email address. Oh, also, and a check to cover the licensing fee, which
with little explanation can be waived, let alone it's not required for homes under five. So
if keeping recovering people safe, and local residents supportive, wasn't enough reason
for a strong ordinance that will pass an FDA inspection, I just gave you another one.
Include insurance. Conversations with Planning and Zoning Commission, who's been at
this for 21 years in Prescott, advises the single largest reason they were able to properly
distribute a healthy number of sober homes in their town was the fact that they required
insurance. Florida also has a tremendous problem, and insurance requirements is how
they eliminated improper sober operations.
So I'm going to change topics. Regarding verbiage of reasonable accommodation in the
ordinance, a sober home applicant seeks a reasonable accommodation under FHA and
ADA, not a waiver. The legal terminology for exceptions to any legal ordinance is a
reasonable accommodation. FHA, ADA, FDA, even our schools refer to exceptions as
reasonable accommodations. There's no ethical reason to change the verbiage. And
finally, when you make your changes to the zoning ordinance, could you please explain
to the townspeople how each of your decisions benefit the townspeople. And that's it.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Liz Gildersleeve.
GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening. Once again, I am here tonight to ask those of you
who have the privilege of sitting on this council to do the right thing by the vast majority
of your neighbors, and approve the very reasonable Planning and Zoning
Page 44 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 45 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
recommendations as written, not watered down, for sober homes in our community.
Unfortunately, it now appears that Councilmembers Scharnow and Magazine, in
particular, hold those of us who've been vocal about stronger regulations for sober homes
with much disdain and contempt. My apologies to both of you for taking an active
interest in local issues that directly impact our homes and neighborhoods. Given Mr.
Magazine's own recent words several weeks ago, where he stated that he "goes 180
degrees in the opposite direction" when citizens get too, as he put it "demanding", and
Mr. Scharnow's own words in last week's Times'unusually lengthy opinion piece, as well
as his own involvement as the new director-- I assume it's a paid position-- for the Drug
Coalition, not to mention his coalition possibly having received financial donations from
the sober home and detox industries, how can the public be assured that Mr. Sharnow's
and Mr. Magazine's decisions will be objective tonight?
As I've said in the past, this is the most important and impactful issue right now for our
town. Hence, the reason why you hear from many of us meeting after meeting. And I
hope that I will leave tonight being completely surprised, and that each of you will do the
right thing by putting residents first, and voting for the very reasonable P&Z
recommendations, several of which are already in place today in cities around us. And
something that is not often mentioned, the P&Z recommendations would also protect the
vulnerable residents living in the sober homes. For example, with a smaller occupancy
limit of five residents, longer distances between homes for better rehabilitation, and even
more robust liability insurance requirements should anything tragic happen in a sober
home or neighborhood -- and rest assured, it's bound to happen. If you are unable,
tonight, to advocate aggressively for Fountain Hills residents and neighborhoods, then
our local elections for a new mayor and new councilmembers cannot come soon enough.
Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
MAYOR DICKEY: If you want me to recess, and then we'll go on and on,please don't
applaud. It's in the rules. It's ethics. Let's just be polite. Don't applaud. Give everybody
a chance to have their say. Or I'll just recess, and we'll just start again in a half-hour.
Please stop.
CLERK KLEIN: Rita Brown.
Page 45 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 46 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
BROWN: Good evening. Thank you for allowing me my opportunity to diatribe at you.
I had to leave my glass house high up on the hill to address the invasion of a giant
industry into my single family neighborhood. In the recent opinion piece in The Fountain
Hills Times, words were used that were intended to shame me into silence, words such as
bias, fear,paranoia, anger. But here's the thing: Every time I remain silent, I lose. It's
clear members of my town Council believe I'm too biased and paranoid to remember that
addicts have families. I must be caring of addicts' families after they have abandoned
their own families. But I too have a family. And I choose to protect them first. I made
the decision to live in a single family area as part of my plan for caring. While some
council members may believe the fairy tale that people in recovery actually choose to go
to recovery, the fact is that many are there against their wills. When the judge said,jail
or rehab, they opted for a resort lifestyle over jail.
Most are not from our town. Many are not even from our state. And some have arranged
for drug drops before showing up. Those drug drops increase the presence of drug
dealers on my street. For a second time, I interrupted a drug drop at the drug house on
Nicklaus Drive. I went to the Sheriffs office and reported it. I've requested increased
presence of the Sheriff on my street in the hours just before sundown, but that's just my
paranoia showing again. The drug industry is a multi-billion-dollar industry. A single
family neighborhood is no place for that billion-dollar industry. Our town lawyer is
fearful we'll be sued. The federal government requires only that reasonable
accommodation be made. As the taxpayer in this town, I consider it more than
reasonable accommodation to allow members of that billion-dollar industry into a single
family neighborhood. Just as we tightly regulate height, width, locks, every minute detail
for swimming pool fences on private property, we need to have very stringent regulations
for our local drug industry.
Here's an inconvenient fact: Persons who complete an inpatient rehab program are not
significantly more or less likely to succeed at staying clean than their intensive outpatient
program counterparts. In other words, it is the intention of the addict that determines
treatment outcome. Nothing I do -- my bias, paranoia, fear, and anger have no bearing on
the outcome of the treatment. How many AA meetings are we hosting in the community
center, in the library, and in the Town Hall? Thank you.
Page 46 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 47 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Darla Jacobs.
JACOBS: You're tough people to follow. And I think the first two people said it all.
And a lot of replication. I understand that a lot of other people have sent several emails
to some of the people in this room, and to no avail. After seeing this slide presentation
and the proposal online, I realize that my concerns and the concerns of others have fallen
on deaf ears. I also have to admit that the Town's building developments and ordinances
are being influenced by the political ideology of many of the voting members before me.
The key elements of protection for Fountain Hills' residents and for sober home living
residents have been gutted from the Planning and Zoning Commission's ordinance. The
P&Z ordinance strictly adhered to the State's land use perspective, which are the very
land use governances that reside with our municipality. They may not be common to
other towns, but they are in line with State governances. The P&Z effort also took the
better part of a year with the assistance of a retired attorney and concerned residences to
put those ordinances together. I'm speaking here tonight because I believe that the
proposed ordinance changes lower the bar on the high standards Fountain Hills' residents
expect from their elected officials, and raise the potential for bad actors looking to make
large profits from high fees and Fountain Hills' weak ordinances.
The topic I have chosen to discuss is the removal of the general liability insurance clause,
which is one of four major changes to the Planning and Zoning ordinance. First, the State
of Arizona does not require liability insurance. The State also does not prohibit
municipalities from requiring it. It's the Town's choice, and it is in line with land-use
governances. The two major operators of several sober living in Fountain Hills are for-
profit businesses and should be treated as such. It's irresponsible for the governing body
of our town not to require liability insurance for a business that has the potential for
enormous risk. The risk is such that insurance companies specifically do not cover sober
living homes under their standard homeowner or landlord policies. Standard homeowner
coverage is not designed for the unique exposures of a recovery residence. And some
states make it mandatory to have this insurance due to the litigious exposure. Are we so
blind that we do not see the risks to sober living home residents and others? In addition,
quoting Michael Scharnow's comments recently in The Fountain Hills Times, the
municipal risk pool provided with a $10,000 deductible is much more complicated than
Page 47 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 48 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
what's portrayed. It's not an automatic slam dunk. Now I'm really concerned. The town
may not even have a backup insurance source.
At approximately$20,000 or more for a month's stay in a sober living home, operators
can well afford to pay for general liability insurance. They may not like it, but it should
be the cost of doing business in Fountain Hills, especially when it provides protection for
their vulnerable residents and themselves. Do what's right. Listen to your Planning &
Commission, and put the general liability insurance clause back in the ordinance, perhaps
without the subrogation, if necessary.
MAYOR DICKEY: Richard Rutkowski.
RUTKOWSKI: Mayor and Council, as many of you know, I'm a 20-plus-year resident of
Fountain Hills. My comments are directed in part specifically to the Ordinance 22-01
regarding what is now being termed "community residences", which I, and I suspect
many of those who are paying attention, consider a creative euphemism for what are
more commonly referred to as sober homes. My comments also apply to a broader
perspective of town government. First, a specific comment about Ordinance 22-01, the
Planning and Zoning Commission has addressed this issue in a responsible,
comprehensive manner, and in a way that recognizes the views and concerns of the
residents of Fountain Hills, that it and you are obligated to represent and serve. The large
numbers of attendees at many past meetings and tonight make the viewpoint of the
Town's residents very clear. It is clear to me that a few of you on the Council, and we
know who you are, actually listened to what the residents of Fountain Hills want and
what we do not want. Sadly, the rest of you, and we know who you are, prefer to follow
another agenda, and fail to listen to what the residents want, and what we do not want.
Now, the broader perspective, we should have a representative government, a
government that is responsive, responsible, and accountable. We should not have to fight
a town government on so many issues, whether it be the lagoon, the primary property tax,
daybreak, or this current issue of sober homes, community residences, whatever the title.
I'll remind you that all those past ill-advised attempts by Council failed. And a few of
them failed with a voter turnout that shattered Maricopa County records for voter turnout
in a municipal election. We should not have to fight. But we did it before, and we can
do it again. The point for tonight is that you have the opportunity to listen, to do what is
Page 48 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 49 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
right, to do what the people want, to enact what P&Z has proposed, after listening to the
people. You have that opportunity; I encourage you to please take advantage of it.
Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Cathi Marx.
MARX: Thank you. Mayor Dickey, Council members, first, I just want to say, before I
get formal, my heart breaks for this family who lives next door to the ten men, because I
see them on their patios, with their shirts off, on their patio smoking. I can't imagine
living next door with my daughter. It's also very different visiting a sober home during
the day than living next door to one. I want to start with a sincere thank you to the P&Z
Commission, who has taken the time to really listen to the residents regarding our
concerns about the sober living homes in our residential communities. They understood
the real world implications of what it's like to have a sober home, or two sober homes, or
three sober homes in your immediate neighborhood. They understood when we brought
in the drug waste, which I found and collected. And I resent the fact that it wasn't true,
right, that we found near homes that prove that drug use was active. We explained our
concerns for our families, children, grandchildren, pets, who may get exposed to the
waste in our streets and front yards that may still have drug residue, or worse, fentanyl
residue. They understood when we explained what it's like when there are fights between
residents and the police are called in the middle of the night, or screams in the early
morning because someone is still detoxing and is having a bad night and the ambulances
are called. They understood when we explained that on holidays, ambulances are more
common at these sober homes due to suicide attempts. Yes, all this can happen in any
home, but take each home and multiply the probability by eight or ten.
Add the talking too late at the night on the back patios or the nonstop smoking that goes
into your bedroom window. Not even mentioning the large Mercedes vans that go up and
down, up and down, up and down, up and down our streets. Then the constant honking
when they arrive to let people know it's time to come in and load up. Councilman
Magazine said, he wanted to rebrand Fountain Hills as a wellness destination. Does that
rebranding start now with possibly a detox facility on top of it? Here's my commercial:
Heroin addict, meth addict, alcoholic, no problem, come to Fountain Hills, Arizona,
detox for 90 days in our beautiful, small town in the hills above Scottsdale. After your
Page 49 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 50 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
stay, then spend another 90 days in a luxury mansion nestled within a residential
community, as you try to remain sober. Don't worry if you relapse; you only have to
drive another ten minutes back to the detox facility to start over. I thought we wanted to
be known for the new International Dark Sky Discovery Center. Who is going to want to
Fountain Hills with their family for a vacation when we are known for our drug addicts
and detox centers? I'll answer that question for you: no one. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Crystal Cavanaugh.
CAVANAUGH: Good evening, Fountain Hills residents. Do not water down this
ordinance from either fear of litigation or other motivations. But first, I do want to thank
you, Mr. Scharnow, for your good works with the youth in the drug prevention coalition.
No one here is against drug prevention programs. In fact, youth programs actually have a
higher success rate. But the councilman tried to confuse the issue by leveraging his good
works and mixing them with this local zoning ordinance that protects our community.
He stated as fact that losing in litigation was guaranteed. Why so quick to roll over?
Where is the leadership? If towns only follow what others have done, we end up with a
cookie-cutter ordinance with no one taking a stand for actual people or locations.
Everyone runs scared when a recovery consultant says the word "discrimination". Even
Mr. Scharnow accuses community bias in his article. There have been varying court
opinions, and some of these issues have not even been litigated; they've simply been
negotiated and accepted.
No one denies that there are drug problems here, but I challenge these so-called sober
homes to give specifics on the actual number of Fountain Hills residents in them. I say
almost all are from elsewhere. And there are many drug programs available across the
valley. Approving the key component, such as reduced occupancy to six, increased
distance, and commercial liability insurance are non-negotiable, in my opinion. And
adding that grandfather clause to allow the higher occupancy levels to continue in the
current rented, not purchased, homes does absolutely nothing to change the status quo,
and it's a total cop-out. Decreasing occupancy by their yearly renewal should be required
at a minimum. And why fight so hard against the insurance requirement? Legitimate
organizations operating properly have no problem obtaining such insurance. If you pass
an insufficient ordinance without the key protections, I certainly hope the people of
Page 50 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 51 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Fountain Hills realize you do not have our best interests at heart. And you are not
listening, once again. Some of you actually seem to have a disdain for the residents who
stand up to speak. You think we don't understand the issues of addiction, that we think
it's a character flaw or a simple matter of willpower. But in reality we do indeed
understand, and as you said, we have all been touched by it. My very own brother hung
himself after years in the cycle of addiction and in and out of treatment programs.
Returning to substance abuse is a typical story. But the model requiring million-dollar
homes in single family neighborhoods that house four times the average household is not
about treatment; it is about money. And neighborhood residents should not have to pay
the price. We are not discriminating against the recovery clients, but the residents of
Fountain Hills would appreciate it if this Council would stop discriminating against us.
CLERK KLEIN: Andy Bennett.
BENNETT: Thank you all. Thank you for taking the time to allow me to speak this
evening. This will be the fourth time I have come here to speak on behalf of the
individuals receiving and seeking treatment for substance abuse in Fountain Hills.
Addiction is a condition that carries a lot of baggage. It's very tough to recover from, and
despite what the Prescott newspapers of 2017 would have you believe, there's a shortage
of effective treatment for addiction. It's estimated that only 30 percent of drug treatment
nationwide meets the minimum standard for care. The success rates are even lower and
much harder to track. It's important, though, that we don't confuse the problem with the
solution. I think most people can understand what the problem with addiction looks like:
broken homes, death, incarceration, and institutionalization. Also in areas where there's
high concentration of drug abuse, crime is a huge problem. We're blessed that that's not a
problem in Fountain Hills.
The solution for substance abuse is also well documented and well researched: therapy,
psychiatry, and peer support. There's been a lot of talk about bad actors in the treatment
industry as well. Well, there's bad actors in every industry and every institution
worldwide, whether it's institutions such as schools or churches; we've all heard stories
that have reverberated across the country. Bad actors do damage to well-intended
individuals in all industries. The 2019 community views survey in Fountain Hills found
that participants believed that drug and alcohol abuse was the top issue affecting youth in
Page 51 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 52 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Fountain Hills, followed by anxiety and depression. This series of meetings feels largely
in conflict with that poll, rather than a conversation around how to expand access to care,
whether it's increasing the distance radius between homes or reducing the number of
people that can reside in the homes. Nobody's talked about any flexibility in the newly
proposed rules, such as we are going to restrict access in these locations, but increase
access over here --there's absolutely none of that.
Today's meeting is a continuation of the conversation on how to limit the access to
treatment for drug addiction in the city of Fountain Hills and avoid litigation. Exactly
how restrictive can we be? It's the same conversation that's been going on for the better
part of a year. Lastly, because the City of Prescott is brought up so frequently in these
meetings, I'd like to remind to everyone that the solution that was put into place to
remedy the clustering of sober homes in Prescott are more lax than the zoning
requirements already in place in Fountain Hills. Simultaneously, the State of Arizona has
also started licensing and regulating sober living homes, which it has never done before.
As I said in the last meeting, it feels like a solution in search of a problem. And it's my
hope that the regulations on sober living stay as is. A couple off-topic comments, that I
didn't write.
MAYOR DICKEY: You're almost out of time here, sorry.
BENNETT: Am I out of time?
MAYOR DICKEY: Not, not yet, but almost.
BENNETT: Okay. Liability insurance, everyone has it. If you want to advertise on
Google, you have to have a liability insurance, so I think that you're going to see that's
pretty common around. So if you guys require it, that's okay, but everyone has it in a
sober living home. If you don't have it and you're operating in Fountain Hills, you can't
operate in Fountain Hills. So --there's that. Thank you very much.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Mr. Bennett, where do you reside?
BENNETT: I reside out of town,just like 90 percent of the other people who work here.
CLERK KLEIN: Larry Meyers.
MEYERS: Mayor, Council. Well, it's just about all been said, and I've been saying it
since last year. But here's another three-minute diatribe. To explain something that is
absolutely overlooked, and is absolutely pushed by the detoxification industry to confuse
Page 52 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 53 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
the issue, what you're here to discuss tonight, this issue is about allowing a business or
businesses to profiteer and bolster bottom lines at the expense of residential property
owners,plain and simple. The Council, if you don't want to protect the residential
property owners, you can ignore reality about this business or promote fallacies. So
Councilman Scharnow was very excellent in pointing out all of the fallacies in his one-
third-of-a-page opinion piece in the paper. Others have pointed it out. I'm not going to
get into it. But I want to tell you my conversations with the State -- at the highest levels
levels have told me that there are no sober homes in Fountain Hills. Okay? So let's get
rid of that fallacy. These are residential detoxification facilities. I don't care what you
heard; that's what the State says.
While Councilman Scharnow now that we have problems here, I agree. He says we tend
to have them at a lesser degree, and I say probably, because Fountain Hills is a great
place. But I don't see the need for the Town to allow a business to take people who don't
live here and expand to a point where --Councilman Scharnow brought up, he doesn't see
them proliferating -- when I first spoke, there was one. As I speak, there may be six.
That's a 500 percent increase in 15 months. I'd call that proliferation. And I'm going to
point out that Mr. Bennett's business is in the business of growing this business. Check
his website out.
So now back to the real issue, land use. The Council continually hides behinds the
State-- this comes from the State; the State is solely interested in the governance of the
activity that occurs within the home from a clinical perspective. They have no desire or
jurisdiction to address the use of a home for any purpose from a land-use perspective.
All governances related to land use rest with the municipality. Thus, the word
"preemption" gets thrown around a lot. The only real, valid use of the word "preemption"
is that the State via the DHS inspects for functional use within the home. Local
jurisdictions have not been preempted from land-use perspective, and while -- I would
just like to finish so I can say, while I feel Councilman Scharnow's pain, because my son
knows his family, I think that that's conflating the issue, and as I stated, I think the P&Z
understood this, understood it best, and I'd like to see what they understood put into
place. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Jane Bell.
Page 53 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 54 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
BELL: Good evening, Council and Mayor. First, I want to thank the Mayor for taking
my phone call. It's always good to talk to Ginny. I want to explain the information I
used. Phoenix, I talked to Rachel Escalar(ph.). Page 5,paragraph 3, general liability
required. Page 9, paragraph e, owner must maintain general liability insurance. Page 14,
per the permit a law enforcement officer or agency to inspect Mesa's Ann Marie Fantasia.
Page 5, license a-7 copy of operator's insurance policy. Page 8, g, liability insurance, one
mill three two. Page 6, paragraph 6, inspection. Here is a stack of information that has
taken us a year to put together. We sat and read case law up until midnight. Nobody has
tried to give you any wrong information. If we did, it was not on purpose. Along with
this stack of papers, we were lucky that had a Representative Kavanaugh that took us
under right at the very beginning when we were trying to search out all of the different
laws and where they've gone. Because of him, we met with their legal department, their
code, their head of the DHS, and they really educated us. We are very fortunate, and we
can contact him and get to their legal things to get the answers.
Why all this information? Years ago, I was involved teaching drug education and
savings kids' lives, before all of you were born, except maybe Magazine.
[LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Jane, it's always pleasure.
BELL: Remember the count of six in the house. It has gone to the Ninth Circuit Court.
The U.S. Supreme Court, the Town may write any ordinance provisions necessary to
protect the welfare, including the number of occupants, proving it does not over-
discriminate. After talking to the Mayor, I realized we were on different roads, because
these drug items didn't blow in. I hope you'll look at the Article 2, R9-12-210, the
administration of the home. I gave you the State and I gave you papers out of the
Phoenix ordinance that deals with that. Phoenix has 8 pages. I gave you the State to look
at. We need people to be involved in our government -- three minutes you give is
important, is democracy at work. We and the Council should be one team, wanting the
same outcome. Please go back and look at that article on administrating the home. Be
sure you have 24 hours management, they know CPR, and there's Narcon available in
that home that can be given. You have to protect the addicts.
The detox ordinance is coming next. I wonder where Fountain Hills is going to be.
Page 54 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 55 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
We've had our property here for over 44 years. We love this town, but I am concerned
about where it's going. Addicts can get well in a -- not a million-dollar home, or riding
around in a Mercedes. We have to watch where we're going with it. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Representative Kavanagh.
KAVANAGH: Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. State
Representative John Kavanaugh, Fountain Hills. First, let me go on record as saying that
I erroneously ascribed to staff at the last meeting that they had rewritten the ordinance
that P&Z done. I had criticized them; however, I since realized that they were simply
presenting alternatives to the thing, so that was not warranted, and I want to go on the
record as saying that. However, I still do disagree with their recommendations, because I
think they watered down an ordinance and lessen the protection that the people need. I
spoke to the lawyers at the State capital, and they made it very clear to me that in areas of
planning and zoning, the State has not, in the least, preempted the Town from doing
regulation in this area. So when it comes to the number of people in the house and the
distances, which is planning and zoning, there was no problem with State law.
So you may ask, is there -- are there any other potential problems, and the answer is yes.
Federal law, because this has to do with the Americans Disabilities Act. And you have
to be able to give reasonable accommodation. So when you look at the recommendations
and you look at the surveys, where this town has so many feet, this town has so many
feet, nobody has the half mile, which we recommend. That doesn't mean you can't do
that, because the State doesn't control that. It's federal law, and based upon what the
federal government says. And as we learn that the thing the P&Z is needing, there are
other states that have half miles. So the feds haven't cracked down on these half-mile
regulations. So that would seem to suggest that we would be okay with the half mile. So
I think that's a reasonable thing to do.
The other problem has to do with fear of a lawsuit. If you are -- if you do a federal
violation, or a claimed one, you don't go right to court and spend a fortune on lawyers.
The first thing the federal government does is, is they call you in, they talk to you, they
may do mediation or arbitration between the parties, or they may say, you can't do this.
At any point, you can back out, and you have not racked up massive legal fees. So it's
not like going down this road is necessarily prohibitive. I would also state that, I think
Page 55 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 56 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
you can do inspections, because State law says that the State can contract with third
parties that do inspections. So you could conceivably contract with the State to pick up
that role, which you might want to do since they haven't got that much staffing in this
area. And if it requires a tweak in the law, I'd be more than happy to do that.
I think fire insurance and inspections are important. People with addictions have co-
addictions, like smoking, a lot of smoking, People who can relapse and get stoned.
There's a lot of fire problems there. I think that's a reasonable thing to do. Finally, let me
say, be careful about your waiver language, because what I heard was suggested, you
could drive a truck through. I think any waiver has to be based upon undue hardship; that
is unique to that particular house. So you don't open up the doorway, everybody can
claim, oh, this is not economically feasible and get their waiver. In closing, let me say,
the people who spoke here tonight who live near these homes are clearly concerned about
their quality of life, about their safety, and their peace of mind. Everybody else in this
room, everybody else in this town, could potentially be in the exact same situation.
Because these homes can open up next to any of our houses. So these people, the Town,
even yourselves, right, should expect no more than to have your peace of mind, your
safety, right, protected. And you should give no less. Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Representative Kavanaugh. Excuse me. I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can he ask a question?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah, I have a question. I genuinely do feel sorry
for the people who live next to these and see men looking in their windows, or whatever
they're doing. I genuinely do, but I want to ask you, in your mind, based on State law or
anything else, is there anything we can do about that?
KAVANAGH: Yes. Madam Mayor, Councilman Magazine, I would adopt the P&Z's
provisions. I would attempt to defend them as best I possibly could. Understand -- and
I'm not saying this applies to every staff member at every occasion. But I was on this
council for six years. I've been on the legislature for 16 years. And there's one thing I
can tell you about staff: They're conservative in their recommendations. That they tread
very gently. Because this is the bottom line, if a staff member says to you, you can do
that,pass that, make it so many feet, and you wind up getting sued and losing, there's a
staff member who's concerned about their job, and maybe with good justification. So if
Page 56 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 57 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
the staff member says, you can't do that, don't do it, and you don't do it, that staff member
never gets in trouble, because there's no lawsuit. But you have to say -- you have to say
to yourself, did I shortchange my constituents by not giving them -- giving them enough
protection. So I think P&Z's were reasonable, and I would stick by it and do the best, and
if you have to back out, I would back out.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I do hear you. But I'm not sure you've -- maybe I
didn't make my question clear enough.
KAVANAGH: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Let's assume that there's one of these one of these
houses right next door to you and you don't like it; there are problems. Is there anything
you can do about it?
KAVANAUGH: Well, yeah, I could go to my town council and I could ask to have these
restrictions put in. I could have aggressive code enforcement, doing -- inspecting --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: But you can't -- but you can't remove them?
KAVANAUGH: No. You -- no, you can't. Because that's the federal law. But you can
make them as least intrusive as possible. I had that with the party houses, the short-term
rentals. I couldn't -- I voted against it from the day one. I was the only Senator-- I knew
it was a disaster. I couldn't stop it, but I did come back the next year, and I banned
exclusive party event houses. So you go as far as you can. You push the limits.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And we appreciate that.
KAVANAUGH: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: John, I do want to ask something, because when Larry was up here,
he said something about that the State cares about what happens inside the house, but
then he said somebody from the State told him that it's detoxing that's happening, not
sober. So if they're the licensing -- what'd you say?
MEYERS: I said that they said that their records show there were no sober homes in
Fountain Hills.
MAYOR DICKEY: So these --
MEYERS: I said, they are detoxification facilities in residential properties; the State did
not say that. So I --
Page 57 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 58 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: The State said there are no sober living homes --
MEYERS: Quote.
MAYOR DICKEY: --but that they are only responsible for what goes on inside, not the
zoning stuff. So how can they license something that isn't really a sober living home?
How is it existing? We have four and they're sober living homes, licensed by the State.
So why would the State admit that there's no sober living homes?
KAVANAUGH: Yeah. I guess it comes down to the definition. There's a medical
definition. There's a legal definition. But the bottom line is, these people are in some
stage of detox, because quite frankly, they wouldn't need all this treatment if they didn't
have an addiction and they didn't need to kick that addiction. They're just in a later stage
than if they have to be in a hospital.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, they're --they are not technically, because a detox couldn't
happen in a residential area. It couldn't be licensed to happen in a residential area,
correct?
KAVANAUGH: From the -- Mayor, from the legal standpoint, but obviously these
people still crave the drugs. It's not -- the craving's not out of their system, so I guess if
detox is considered a medical, biological thing, then they're not detoxing. But in their
minds, I think they're still going through a stage that's close enough for government.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. It just --
[LAUGHTER]
CLERK KLEIN: Thanks. I give up. Barry McBride.
MCBRIDE: Madam Mayor, Council. My business is right across the street. I own two
buildings in Fountain Hills, but I'm sad to say I'm a resident of Scottsdale. Haven't been
able to get my wife to move here yet. But I'm working on it. I would like to say I'm so
impressed with the citizens. I'm inspired by the quivering voices, and I think that with
the quivering voices that would help you look at things maybe from a different
perspective. In this situation, serving along with the P&Z, there was research done
beyond Arizona border, which was really impactful. And I think that was reflected very
well in their-- in their recommendation. So we encourage you again to adopt P&Z's
recommendation as given. We think that's very, very important.
Mission number one of the Council, I would assume, to serve and protect the people.
Page 58 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 59 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
And when we hear stories of people that are not being served and not being protected, it
is very inspiring; it's very concerning. And it's the type of the story that would change
the way that you think to look at things through the lens of leadership, as opposed to
following other-- or other municipalities with undue restrictions. It's a very, very
concerning thing. And the issue is is we now have commercial enterprises in residential
zones that's causing the quivering voices of those that have come up and spoken, which is
quite unfortunate, it really is. Interesting, I cannot run a commercial insurance agency in
a residential area, but we can have detox facilities there. It's a real, real concern. I
implore you to listen to the quivering voices, to consider what they're going through and
living through. It's the lens of leadership.
And I'll follow up with this. I serve on a committee at the Phoenix Zoo, and one thing
that we do at the Phoenix Zoo is we are very, very considerate of where we place
different species because of the amount of stress that it causes from one to the other. So
said respectfully, said respectfully, because I will say that my cousin died of a heroin
overdose. So I do care deeply for those in treatment. But his treatment was at a facility,
not in a residence. But the key is is we have to make sure that we have commercial and
residential, because otherwise the mixing of the two creates an undue stress that's unfair
for residents. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: John Pio -- Peo ? I'm --
PIO: Pio.
CLERK KLEIN: Pio, I'm sorry. I know I had it once before. And I couldn't remember
how I pronounced it.
PIO: Madam Mayor, Council, thank you. My wife and I have been residents of Fountain
Hills for 19 years. Fountain Hills is blessed in many ways, and in particular relating to
this agenda item, it's blessed to have a Planning and Zoning Commission that's willing to
do all of the hard work necessary to generate the best possible recommendations that
serve the interests of the Town and its residents. In particular, the Chairman, Peter Gray,
is obviously highly competent, talented, and motivated to do the best possible job in
supporting you all on the Council. My observations are that the recommendations
developed by Chairman Gray, and the commission were based on extensive research,
factual evidence, due sensitivity to legal issues, and consideration of what best serves this
Page 59 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 60 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
community as well as the operators and especially the residents of the sober homes. I
believe the recommendations should be adopted substantially as proposed and not be
weakened because of supposed or speculated future litigation.
We've all seen the disastrous results of weak ordinances in other locales, and we're
feeling some of those consequences within our own community. And they're not rumors.
And I think there's people here that would disagree that this is a solution in search of a
problem. The adoption of strong but fair ordinances may carry some risk of litigation.
But what possible legitimate consideration can come before protecting this town and its
residents? Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Allen Skillicorn.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Mayor, Council, staff, and also thank you for your time,
your commitment, and, you know, evenings like this go late, and we want to respect your
time. And thank you and I appreciate your time.
My name is Allen Skillicorn, and I'm just here because I think people are more important
than special interests. And when I look at that Planning and Zoning Ordinance that was
unanimously approved, it just seems like it's very common sense to me. It seems
reasonable. When I listen to my neighbors, they seem to agree with me too. They say--
I hear it over and over, common sense, reasonable. They seem to agree with me too.
And I hear tonight, you know, whether it's the presentation and some of the questions and
comments. It sounds like I heard the word "can't" a lot. And I'd really like to hear the
word "can". And I'll give you an example of the differences. When we talk about, you
know, the State does inspections, the Town can't do inspections, the State doesn't require
insurance, the Town can't require insurance --when I -- when I hear this, it just-- can't,
can't, can't. Well, I believe in the word "can". So we have a State legislator who's in the
audience here, who lives in town here. If we need this change a State law, he can
propose the legislation. It may not be immediate. It might take some time. It might
take-- it might be next session that this happens. But we, the people, can change the law
here in the State. This town also has a congressman that resides in the Town, and many
of us have his cell phone number in our phones. If federal law, if ADA is a problem, we
can approach him, and he can file legislation. And potentially, that could be changed;
that could be changed long period of time, short period of time, but we can effect change.
Page 60 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 61 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
And I want-- I just want to point that out.
When I hear the proposed ordinance about the waiver, there was a couple objections
there. One -- that -- didn't I hear of an objection is these, the commission, the three-
person commission, for the waiver? Now, one issue I have with that is that this is an
unelected commission. The people on there are not accountable to the public,because
they're not elected. I do have a significant problem with that. I hear a complaint about,
or, you know, a recommendation of lowering the distance. Still I think the people of this
town deserve to have an opportunity to not have these in these clusters, considering the
topography of our town and the -- and the washes, the half a mile does not seem
unreasonable.
Now, I did want-- a couple of other things. Like, if one of these facilities moved in next
door to you, would you be okay that they weren't required by the Town to have liability
insurance? Think about, if they were next door to you, would you be okay with that? If
one moved next door to you, would you be okay if the Town did not come in and do
inspections? Would you be okay with that? If one moved in right next to you, would
you be okay with the limit of six versus ten? Would you be okay with that? And the
reason I ask the question in such a way is because there are people in this -- in here that
have these right next door to them. And they are not okay with the watering down of this
ordinance. So I respectfully ask, if you feel uncomfortable with watering down any of
these items, tonight is the night to speak up; tonight is the night -- the night to do so.
And I don't know if you are guys are open-minded to keeping the Planning and Zoning,
you know, recommendations. I hope you are, but if you have any feeling that you're
uncomfortable with not having insurance, not having inspection, not having these limits,
speak up tonight. The people of the Town want to hear you. Thank you so much.
CLERK KLEIN: Ed Stizza.
STIZZA: Good evening. And Mayor, Town Council, and staff. I'm a resident of
Fountain Hills. I cannot say anything more other than, finally, you guys are going to be
held accountable for your vote tonight. This is an important vote. You have heard from
all the residents. You have heard from the Town. You have heard from everybody you
possibly can, and if you can't make the right decision this time, then God help you. So --
thank you.
Page 61 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 62 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Those were all the speaker cards. I think --
so right now, I just want to say a couple of things. So I understand that you would like us
to follow exactly what the Planning and Zoning said, but I think you noticed even at the
last meeting, some of the changes that we made were necessary, and no one objected to
them on Planning and Zoning either. I think -- I know you want us to listen, and I believe
that we have been listening and obviously care about this. Representative Kavanaugh
knows about how I feel about the short-term rentals, and I feel like it's kind of the same,
sort of intrusion, it can be, but we also -- we are preempted in a lot of ways. Part of me
sees this State, as the licensing entity, that they should be responsible to make sure that
they're not detox or there's no active treatment going on or that there's not 12 people
living there or whatever-- whatever they're-- they made those accommodations to give
them the license. Why are they not in charge of taking care of them? And if we don't
like the fact that something has to happen that the State tells us to do, why isn't that -- and
you did mention that, you know, going back to try and to change some of those laws.
But when you talk about the insurance, it literally was the State law that made Phoenix,
Mesa, and Prescott have to take that off their books. So I don't know how that translates
into us being able to do that with the State. The other things that were talked about, I --
everybody goes through that at some -- at one point or another with a-- with a neighbor.
Whether it's a dog or fighting people or the smoking, or you don't -- you don't have a
smoking neighbor ever? You don't have fights ever?
What I'm saying is that when Allen asked about what would you do about that, some of
this stuff is a little -- you know, it's not cut and dry, and -- but I do ask since we do have
some folks here in the industry, you know, sometimes you have to act like neighbors, like
we have to ask a neighbor about a dog or about smoking or about fighting or partying or
any of that kind of stuff. So we have to weigh a lot of different things as we move
forward, including the law. So that's what -- that's what going through our minds.
There's no -- there's no hubris here; there's no fun here. There's nobody trying to help
somebody with some motivation or another. But we have been trying to make our way
through this in the best way for all 25,000 people that live here. So anyway, what -- do I
close the hearing, and do we -- can we continue to speak after that?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Mayor, you can go ahead and close the hearing, and then if the
Page 62 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 63 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
council members have additional comments, by all means.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So additional discussion? On what we went through? Gerry
and Vice Mayor.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Mayor, tonight we heard a lot of people mention the
insurance issue. So I'm just wondering if there's some kind of a model for a rated risk
that we could take a look at across the board for all of our business community so that
we're not singling out one sector of the business community. And I'm wondering if
there's some model or something that we can take a look at to give us more information
in that area.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I have a couple of thoughts and a response to that question,
Councilman. The first is that, is there some sort of model -- I mean, sure there are model
policies, right. Like, you know, the insurance industry has model policies all the time for
commercial general liability, property owner's insurance. And it's just a question of
what's the nature of the business and what's an appropriate limit. I'm not sure how we as
a town go with every business and try to figure out what limits would be appropriate for
every type of business. But assuming that it was possible, it's -- at least one of the things
that sounded reasonable tonight is that -- and I don't -- you know, I'm kind of looking this
direction toward Mr. Bennett. He made a representation that sounds as though the
industry wouldn't have an issue with that sort of a provision. So I mean, I don't know if it
needs -- maybe it doesn't even necessarily need to be an issue, right? If it -- I don't know,
I'm sort of-- that was news to me.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: That's kind of where I was going --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: -- because when he made that statement, I'm thinking, there's
got to be a way to work that out.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah, I mean, right. My point is is that, look, if it's something
that the industry doesn't have an issue with, right, I still don't think it's something that
under State regulations we can require of a specific industry, right? But on the other
hand, if this is a sticking point and we mutually all recognize that it's a sticking point, that
it's a distinction with that difference, then maybe we include it and move on, if some of
the folks who have spoken here tonight in favor of reasonable regulations are okay with
Page 63 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 64 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
that. But that I'm not going to put words in anyone's mouth, I'm just trying to come up
with a reasonable solution here that sort of makes both parties mutually satisfied.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can the State require insurance?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I'm sure the State could require insurance if it chose to.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right, right, but the Town can't require somebody that buys a home
to get homeowner insurance. The town -- we're talking about us being able -- having the
ability to require insurance of one particular area, and that's the sticking point that the
State-- these--
ATTORNEY ARNSON: The State is the licensing agency.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: The State can require it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) only have one thing to say is that from the
all insurance companies that I looked at, every one of them has an extra package for
sober homes.
MAYOR DICKEY: I understand, sir. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So there is a risk/reward -- they're all doing that because
of risk/reward.
MAYOR DICKEY: I understand. What -- I guess what we're trying to get to the bottom
of is the authority of the Town to require insurance from a particular enterprise, business,
home, whatever you want to call it. And we don't feel like we -- we don't have that
authority.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I want to let him talk.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. I don't know what the -- you know, I don't know what the
result of that is, because I came in here with the idea that we do not have the authority to
require insurance.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: And I still believe that's the case.
MAYOR DICKEY: And you still believe that's the case. Okay, thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Follow up, then say the State could do it.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Well, we have legislator Kavanaugh here, who
perhaps can try to make that happen at the legislative level. I see him nodding in
agreement that maybe that's possible.
Page 64 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 65 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: The other thing that I think we might have had some discussion
about was the distancing thing, so, you know, the 1320 was the quarter mile. So do you
want to talk about that?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah, may I? Yeah, Aaron, it's my understanding
that 1320 is the farthest distance between these homes, and any jurisdiction in Arizona; is
that correct?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: You're not doing me any favors tonight, Councilman. That is
correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Okay. So 1320.
ATTORNEYARSON: And that's in the --that's in an attachment to agenda 8B.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Right, right. So when it comes time for a motion, I
would be happy to make the motion to have it set at 1320 as opposed to 1200.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there any other discussion on this item? Mike?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: No. I -- you know, in my oft-quoted opinion piece
from last week, I said I was willing to look at changes and compromises and such. And I
too think 1320 is a good compromise from what was proposed when looking at other
jurisdictions. So --
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I agree. I feel like we don't want to be the test
of waters above the 1320. I think part of our job on Council is to our help protect from
lawsuits, so I feel like there's, what, 3 at 1320, and there was 5 or 6 at 1200. So I feel like
1320 is probably a safe place to go.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: (Indiscernible) motion. Mayor, I'm going to move
this along. I'm going to move that the separation requirement be set at 1320 feet.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is this a motion?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah. I made a motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Well, are we going to -- do you want to take these one at a
time --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So the -- I think-- I think the best option with-- respectfully,
Councilman Magazine, I think the best option might to be -- to go through those five
areas that Director Wesley said. And if we can make a motion all at once --
MAGAZINE: Sure.
Page 65 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 66 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
_tea
ATTORNEY ARNSON: -- that might really help. That might help us out.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Well --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Right, we still have to -- yeah, we still have to actually get the
ordinance, right, kind of--
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, so that we would take the break, so --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- so I'm good with the six and eight, if that's something anybody
wants to talk about.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Six and eight, you mean for occupancy? Thank you, Mayor.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: I mean, I'm willing to consider a lowering of
where we're at. I just think going down to six and eight is too much. And I'm kind of
surprised in terms of all this comment, this past year, I mean, knowing from the -- what
are we calling them, the family community residences. No one from that industry has
come forward to question us or give suggestions. I mean, this is going to impact them as
well. And, you know, we're kind of separating the two subcategories. I understand that,
but I think we're lowering the family one just to kind of give credence to lowering the
other one. And then, I mean, this could impact future people who want to open, you
know, these family community residences in the community. I mean, maybe the feeling
is ten's enough, but on the other hand, it's like we don't hear complaints about these
homes. So this industry is going to be impacted by this ordinance as well. I just want to
point that out, but I just --to me, six and eight is too much. But most of the communities,
the vast majority is are ten plus staff. And I'm not proposing that, but I just think what's
on the table here is too much.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. I'm good with six and eight. And what
it boils down to for me is quality of care. I think it's important. I have several members
of my family who are involved with drug and alcohol abuse. And I've seen it firsthand.
So six and eight for me are good, because of the improved quality of care, and it's got to
be number one with dealing with this. So I'm good with those numbers.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: While I agree with Councilman Scharnow that I
kind of feel like ten is a better number, I would be okay with talking six and eight if we
said that that does not include live-in staff. I do have a problem with six or eight people
Page 66 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 67 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
if that includes live-in staff.
MAYOR DICKEY: So we want to make sure we can come up with something that
Aaron feels he can move forward with. So I don't think we're there right now. I think we
probably need to hear from everybody else. David?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. As I stated before, a
month ago, well over a month ago, that I would not budge from that number, I will
continue to be steadfast and say that it's six and eight or I'm a no vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Alan?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Well, it's just a matter of getting it on the record. I
agree with Councilwoman Grzybowski; six and eight, not including staff, makes sense to
me.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Well, I'd go along with that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: (Indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: Six and eight with staff, including staff. Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: With the community residence, six to eight with
staff, and the (indiscernible).
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Can't hear you; your mic's not on.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: It is on.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, it's on.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Sony. I think that, with the community residence,
up to six to eight with staff is appropriate. And the other one, the transient one, up to six
with staff is appropriate. I think that, given what was said tonight, with the neighbor's
concerns, that-- about how many people they see and things like this, I think this is a
reasonable number. It's less than what was recommended, and it just seems like it would
work. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: And I know that the idea of neighborhood, you know, how many
people are in each house isn't something that they say is legitimate to use in a legal way,
maybe. But I think it does reflect on neighborhoods, and just like with short-term rentals
or anything else, trying as best as we can, under the constraints that we have to keep
neighborhoods and the characters of neighborhoods as residential areas is important. So
Page 67 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 68 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
there may be four for six and eight, with-- including staff? Did you see that?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah, that's good.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you agree?
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. What was the other thing -- license, insurance -- the
inspections.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I move that we not require inspections, that it's the
State licensing agency does the inspections; we can't do unannounced inspections.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think we could maybe help with the efforts to the legislature,
whether it's for funding or for whatever it takes so that inspections can be done regularly
and can be relied on, they can be requested, but that also reminds me, though, that there's
complaints online that --well, we just got some information today, and you touched
briefly on it, that I think 94 complaints were made in the last year, and 91 resulted in
citations. So I think it's a responsive mechanism that the State has in place. So I don't
think that the Town has the jurisdiction or the ability to do these unannounced
inspections. Like I said, we do do the fire inspections, and if there's code enforcement
sort of stuff, litter, anything that you see on the outside, too many cars, working on a car,
all those kind of things, we already have that ability for code inspection, but an interior
inspection unannounced, we're --we don't have the authority to do that, but I'd be happy
to help the State and advocate for funding or whatever it takes for the staff to be able to
do that. And then they could do that for all their cities.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I just wanted to reiterate when you said it 94
complaints that went in and 97 citations. That was based on the State, not on Fountain
Hills'number.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, right.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Just wanted to make sure that we said that.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: I'm wondering if the State outsources for those inspections,
is that something that we can get hooked up with to do that in our own town, if the State
is the one that is outsourcing that? Is that something we can on -- I don't know.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: It's something we can check. I have no idea whether a
H6TfRx cfr',55H5,'#T�'W.xitiS-T+w•a.y.,._.'+.F a..,st ri5:,..•. ., r...:n . ...
Page 68 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 69 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
municipality serves as a third-party contractor. It would be unusual. It doesn't mean it
doesn't happen. I just -- I don't know, yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: So basically it would be, like, they would hire somebody. And but
we would have to have that staff to be able to do that --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah, right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and such.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I mean, typically what you're going to see with any--with any
government body is they're going to do a procurement for, you know, an outside agency
to conduct their inspections, like how we do on-- like, for third-party inspections for
certain projects.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, right.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So it -- I can't imagine it's that different. I just -- maybe there's
like a workshare agreement or something like that. So it's possible; I just don't know the
answer to the question.
MAYOR DICKEY: Mike?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, Madam Mayor, thank you. Along the lines
of, you know, changes needed at the State level -- I mean, one of the speakers talked
about this initial application form and issues with, you know, aliens applying, that kind of
thing, the very loosey-goosey restrictions. Well, again -- that -- when you talk to the
State legislature and other folks at the State level, the changes form then. If it's
inadequate or you think it's lacking, that's -- you know, that's -- again, this is not a
Fountain Hills' forum, it's a State one, so take it up with the State.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you see, do you understand what's happening then here, right?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: No. Maybe I can --
MAYOR DICKEY: Enough--
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Maybe I can summarize really quick, and the town manager
gave a good suggestion about getting some consensus, whether through a vote or
otherwise, before we go and try to figure something -- changing out language on the six
and eight, whether it's including staff or not including staff. Include -- so-- include. I
see four head nods. So that's -- so if someone wants to try to, you know -- but that's how
we'll come back with it.
Page 69 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 31 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
any within their group home, assisted living provisions that any were requiring insurance.
We also have a concern that if we had this, if it would actually be enforced or not.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any further discussion? Just to be clear, any city that
had it before the state law changed has either repealed it or sunset it?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Separation distance. Section 5.13(a) lists the basic requirements
for homes, and that includes a separation distance as recommended by the PNC (ph.).
They put in a half mile or 2,640 feet. This is -- distance is measured, straight line,
property to property. The overall goal of the code is to allow for these homes, but not
create an overconcentration. And so that's what we're looking for, is what distance would
achieve that goal.
Currently in our existing ordinance that's in effect today, our separation distance is 1,200
feet. In the jurisdictions that I looked at, the greatest distance separation that I found was
1,320, or a quarter mile. You can see the communities that have that. Next is the number
of jurisdictions, similar to Fountain Hills, that have the 1,200. And then some that were
smaller, Oro Valley, Prescott, Cave Creek. And then a couple that had no separation
requirements in Flagstaff and Sedona that I could find.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just want to emphasize. So of all the jurisdictions
you looked at, 1,320 was the most; is that correct?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: That's the greatest distance I could find in any Arizona
jurisdiction.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Any other questions or comments with that? (Indiscernible)
another slide on-- I guess I do have one more slide. And so again,just some of the
things we've looked at before. We looked at where we change 100 block designation in
town. It's approximately over 600 to 700 feet. We did a review of all the block lengths
in town, measured every block length, then divided that by the number of blocks and
came up with an average length of 560 feet, approximately. So if you use those as kind
of some guides for separation, I think that might be helpful.
There's been some concern about some of the environmental impacts you get from
Page 31 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 32 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
some -- the way people have experienced some of these homes. Some of those
environmental impacts could be addressed by addressing those specific codes rather than
addressing it this way.
And then at the last meeting, there was some talk about -- well, the current distance is
1,200. PNC had recommended the 2,460. Maybe we cut that in half. So I'll just provide
that number as another point of reference. 1,830 would be that number if Council wanted
to go that way.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I just want to, I think, emphasize based upon my
knowledge of this that 1,320 is the most for any jurisdiction.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: That's the most I've found.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And this, it says 1,830.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And I know some people have said, go to court,
don't worry about it. But I think this may be a red flag. So I think we have to be careful.
MAYOR DICKEY: Just to make it clear. The distance is between property lines?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct. Property line to property line is where we do it.
MAYOR DICKEY: So, you know, we were discussing the canyon aspect and such. And
this would stop anything from being, like, back to back or anything like that.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yeah, that's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: There would be --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Because it's a--
MAYOR DICKEY: -- definitely be buffers.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: -- that circle around. So most canyons aren't that way--
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, yeah. Like --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: -- and if they were, then it probably would take care of it. It's
just that the contrast is in Prescott, where they do measure theirs along the street. And by
doing that, you could have something back to back because they can go around the block
and be there. So that's not what we're talking about. That's not the way it is today.
Moving on. The next item is the number of residents. Section 1.12, the zoning ordinance
provides definitions. Here in this section, we are amending what we've -- it used to be
four in terms of having a group home designation -- definition and change it to
Page 32 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 33 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
community residences. And then subdividing that into two types, family residences and
traditional -- transitional residences, excuse me. The recommendation from the PNC is
that the family residences would be a maximum of eight, including staff, and that the
transitional would be six, including staff. Currently, our ordinance is ten not including
staff So all of the existing homes out there have that potential to be that size.
Get us a look at the other jurisdictions. Found -- excuse me. Found one or two cities
here where I did not see any cap to the number. Prescott has 12. You can see the number
there of ten, excluding staff. And then a few of ten, including staff. And there are three
jurisdictions that do set a limit at five. All those are caveat with Gilbert. Both Chandler
and Tempe do set theirs at five. They do have their waiver procedures that can allow for
more than that, but that's what their standard is. Gilbert is five, a limit when it is not
licensed to the state. But if they are licensed to the state, then it can go up to 10.
Any questions on that one?
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm more comfortable seeing that there's a couple with six. And
then as long as transitional can be treated differently from what we called more
permanent, then the eight and the six seems like something that would be totally
allowable.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yes, Mayor. As we have looked at that and thought about that,
when we're talking about the transitional homes, those are the people staying there
typically for a shorter period of time. So there's more turnover. And so there's maybe a
little bit more impact on the neighborhood, less stability for the neighborhood, so forth
with the transitional. So I think there is justification there for some consideration of a
difference.
So the last item, then, would be waivers. The terminology here has been a bit confusing
and so tried to address that by just calling it a waiver. There might be some other terms
to use, modification or adjustment. We believe it is important to have that option spelled
out in the code for a waiver or a deviation,just like we do variances for other parts of the
code, so we can consider unique situations and address them specifically. The ordinance,
as provided to the Planning and Zoning Commission, did include a section on those.
There's some concerns about how that was worded, how it might be implemented. And
so they took that provision out of the ordinance that was recommended to you.
Page 33 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 34 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
As I've looked at, again, the other codes, I found that most jurisdictions do provide for
some type of waiver. And so we would suggest that we put something back in, but with
some changes from what went to the PNC. We're suggesting some kind of waiver
committee. This is one option that's on here. Town manager, (indiscernible) service
director, member of one of our boards. We could change that in any number of ways.
One staff person and two board members could be another way that could be done.
Another citizen might be appointed. But we think something like a three-member board
of some kind so it's not just one person, but we don't want to get unwieldy by having too
many. So a three-person. And then there's the potential, if we wanted to, to have an
appeal from there. It doesn't have to have one. But put that out there as a possibility.
And then compared to what we provided to the Planning and Zoning Commission, beefed
up the language a little bit in terms of the standards, to make it clear that you can't just
come in and say I want it because I want it. We need real information and documentation
to justify that these people we look at and review in order to grant a waiver to the
standards.
MAYOR DICKEY: The list there, the bullets is going to depend on what they were
asking--
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct. Right. Because something might not fly.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- what the waiver is for, but having it defined as much as possible,
and I think having the three-person committee available -- we talked a little bit about that
in the past. Do you have anything to --thank you, David.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I personally would like to
see the town manager dropped from this process. I believe it should be the Development
Service director, a representative from the Board of Adjustments, and a representative for
Planning &Zoning, since they have intimate knowledge of planning and zoning in the
Town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So that would be still three people. So that's good. And then
probably the appeal to Town Council might not be necessary because there's going to be
a natural progression to this, anyway. So we'd have the Board of Appeals chair, P&Z
chair. Does it have to be chair? Kind of makes sense, but I guess it doesn't have to be.
And then development director, and then that would be it. And then afterwards,
Page 34 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 35 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
whichever way it went, then they would -- then they're -- where would they go after that?
They could either just accept it -- I mean, if it was --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- accepted, then that would be the end of it, right?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Right. If the combination were granted, that would be
the end. And I suppose the language could be really whatever we want it to be for that
group of three, but either the chair, or his or her designee, or simply a member. However
we want to do it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So then if the chair is not available, you're not bound,
you know, to have to do it by--
MAYOR DICKEY: Alan?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: If an individual were to buy a home, and get State
certification, but they said, you know, we can't get the return on investment we need. We
need to allow more people. Is that appealable for a waiver?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So the simple answer is yes. If they feel like they need
more than -- whether it's the eight or the six, depending on which type of home it is --
yes, they can request a waiver to that. But they would need more justification than well,
this just isn't working out for us financially. They have to -- again, there's -- I'll just
summarize it here, but there's the five criteria that would be looked at carefully by the
three-member committee, to ensure they really have a justification, and not just a desire --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just a financial justification.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- financial -- right.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: And I thought we were going to reconsider the
appeal to the Town Council, maybe delete that. I mean Aaron, do we need to include the
appeal to judicial type? Do we name that? Or just don't do anything, or --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah. I mean, we certainly could. But a denial of an
accommodation would be something that a person could take for a judicial remedy
anyway. Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: And to Alan's point, too, as far as somebody buying a house, and
Page 35 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 36 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
starting something new, they would know these rules were in place, which brings up the
idea of grandfathering, and-- do we have -- are we going to talk about that?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Mayor, I did not include that in the presentation. It
was in the staff report, since it wasn't actually an ordinance proposal at the time. So it's
not here. So there are specific provisions in the ordinance that this would fall under on
how we treat any time we change a code, and have a legally approved use going on, or a
property, and we allow it to continue as long as it doesn't change within certain
parameters. So that's would we had to anticipate here. There have been some questions
about well, what if somebody owns a home, a group home of some kind, and then they're
tired of it so they sell that to somebody else. And then the new operator comes in. That
new operator is going to need to get a new license. And when they get a new license,
they have to register that license. And so that new license would need to then follow the
new code. And so as we've talked about that a little bit, it may be helpful to add a
paragraph in the code, to make sure that's clear. And we can sure do that. It's one of the
things that we can get back to Council, if you want to do that here. As the attorney talked
about, if we take a break, we can get that language put together--
MAYOR DICKEY: And I would also add that -- so you called this in the past, and we
talked about places where the zoning got changed around them. It's called legal
nonconforming use.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: And just to point out, it's not legal to reduce those uses for people
that are there already. So we kind of solved a little bit about that, and we talked about
parking, and some of these other items over the years, where they had a certain kind of
zoning. So we changed the zoning, but we can't change the value or the use of the
property, as long as it's that same person, and they don't change it a lot. So this would
just be something that we already have in place for a town?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. David?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just as a point of
clarification, and the town attorney can jump in, I've received numerous emails from
residents who are like, don't worry about getting sued. You know, pass it, let's see what
Page 36 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 37 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
happens down the road. I think as a point of clarification, it's important to note that
someone who seeks remedy or a waiver, first has to come to the Town and request the
waiver, and then be denied the waiver in order for them to legally go into court and take
it from there. So I think it's important to note that you can't skip that process -- if I'm
talking out of turn, Aaron -- you can't skip that process of coming to the Town for a
waiver and go directly to court, because if you go to court, the first thing the court's going
to ask is did you seek a remedy within the Town. And -- they're not going to ask that?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: No, absolutely.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Oh, you're shaking your head no.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: No, that's going to be the first -- Mayor and Council, that will
be the first thing they say is, you know, if the Town finds itself in that situation, the
defense is well, we don't know whether they would have gotten an accommodation or not
because they never asked. Right? And so the court is going to send that back to work
through the administrative process. It's called exhaustion of administrative remedies, and
you stated that very well.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay. Just for everybody out there, we can't just jump
right to well, I'm going to sue. You first have to seek a remedy within the Town, then if
you don't like what you hear, then you can escalate it from there. But there's no jumping
the system.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: And Mayor and Councilmember, I'm glad you brought that
up,because that is one of the main reasons to have this in the code, because if we don't
have it in the code, then they are jumping straight to the courts.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: In addition, under Section B, Application
Requirements, number 8, it says "the applicant shall attest that they will provide all
evidence permissible by code and authority, having jurisdiction necessary in response to
a code enforcement inquiry". And I would like to ask that in particular, occupancy logs
be omitted because we don't require occupancy logs, and I don't think we're allowed that
information. Correct, Aaron?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So Mayor and Council, I want to make sure that I am looking
at the right section. It looks like it's page 5.
Page 37 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 38 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Yep.
ARNSON: Okay, we're talking about Section 3? Okay. 8, "the applicant shall" -- I see
where you are. I see where you are. And you take --Councilwoman, you take issue with
the language, in particular occupancy logs?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Urn-hum.
ARNSON: Yeah. I will say that leaving it or removing it probably doesn't make a
material difference, so I'd be fine with removing that last phrase, because we're still
requiring an attestation that the applicant will provide all evidence permissible--
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Hm.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: -- that we can get ahold of. So there's not necessarily a reason
to make anything specific unless John sees a different basis for it.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: You're fine either way.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Okay.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Because I agree, that first phrase covers it.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Um-hum.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: I thought we weren't allowed, you know, the last time we hadn't
talked about it.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Oh. That may well be. I've lost track of where we've -- in part
of where we've been. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm glad you brought up code enforcement, because that is still
something that you can do with anything going on in town, where our code enforcement
can go. If it's litter or noise or call MCSO, if there's something else going on that needs
attention. So since the State is the licensing body, and they're the ones that can do
inspections, and they require the license, they can -- so basically, they're in charge of
some of the enforcement that, I think, concerns some people. And then there are some
things that we can do, and which we're doing now with these changes in our ordinance
that are within the law. I wanted to also mention that some of the discussion we heard,
and when-- David, when you were just mentioning going and getting sued and such, that
we are part of a risk pool, we are, and risk pools we have the deductible and such, but it's
not the same as any-- I mean it is the same. Like, you have health insurance, you have
all kinds of insurance, and then there's all kinds of stipulations to that if you do
Page 38 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 39 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
something. If you enact something that's just blatantly not lawful, then the risk pool isn't
going to necessarily defend you, or -- depending on who's doing charges against you. So
it's just not as simple as saying it couldn't be any more than $10,000. And then some
cases, if it's a land use issue, there's a cap of$1 million. So if it was more than $1
million-- so it's as simple and cut and dry as it might seem when you just kind of look
stuff up, which I can understand doing, and we appreciate that because the information
that we got from folks had us looking into things a little bit more, and feeling like we
have a lot more clarity about all this. So I want to thank you for that. Should I go with--
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor, again?
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. Go ahead.
MANAGER MILLER: No, I just wanted to thank you for clarifying those issues, and the
other point. I know, Aaron, you talked about in the past, as far as if we were to lose a
suit, a lot of times the biggest bill in such a thing is attorneys' fees, and those aren't
typically reimbursed in that kind of scenario by the risk pool. You want to clarify?
ATTORNEYARNSON: They may be, they may not, depending on how the pool kind of
interprets the policy. Right? So I just-- to the Mayor's point, and to your question,
Councilman, without getting into the details, I can't get into them, but I just recently
resolved a case for another municipal client. And that one happened to be one where the
pool defended under, they call it under a reservation of rights, which means that they later
determine that there was something amiss for which they shouldn't have provided
coverage, that there will be sort of an indemnity obligation, right? And the pool in this
instance very well may, and I believe will exercise that right. So to both of your points,
it's not as straightforward. Insurance issues never are, as I think anyone who's ever tried
to use insurance can appreciate.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do we want to go to call the public now? Are y'all ready for that?
Okay. I think we'll do that. And then -- well, I don't close the hearing until after they
speak, right? Okay. So if we have call to the public, and then we can close the hearing
and vote. Speaker cards?
CLERK KLEIN: First one is Marianne Sampson.
MARIANNE SAMPSON: Thank you everyone for giving me a chance to speak tonight.
I must admit public speaking is not for me, and standing before you takes me completely
Page 39 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 40 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
out of my comfort zone. But this is so important, that I felt that everyone needed to hear
what I have to say. Most people don't believe in love at first sight. But I know it exists
because I experienced it four times in my life. When I met my husband, when I first laid
eyes on my two children, and the fourth time when I crossed a mountain range from
Scottsdale into Fountain Hills. The beauty of this town totally took my breath away. We
bought a house here, and after living in more locations than I can count, I felt that I
finally had come home. That was 25 years ago. Due to job opportunities elsewhere, we
had to leave a few times. But we held onto our home because we knew if we worked
hard, and saved our pennies, we would one day return.
That day finally happened two months ago when we retired. After 15 years in New York,
we were so excited to finally come back. But to our disappointment, it feels so different
now. And I'm so, so sad to say that our beautiful house no longer feels like home. A
home to me is a place where you feel totally at ease, where you feel comfortable, and
where you feel safe. But due to lack of regulation for commercial businesses operating in
residential neighborhoods, I no longer have any of those feelings. See, I happen to live
right next door to one of these rehab "homes". "Homes" in quotes because they don't
even come close to resembling a home. Next door to me is a revolving door of different
men all the time, spending their time watching my coming and going and every move,
and it's very unnerving. I can no longer enjoy sitting outside without being watched and
pestered with smoke and vaping from ten grown men next door to me. And let's say I
want to sell my home and move. Who would want to buy it? Who would want to live in
a commercial zone, because that is what my neighborhood has become. So I beg you,
when you vote, please consider how it is living in my shoes next to one of these
businesses. Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
CLERK KLEIN: Ron Sampson.
RON SAMPSON: Dear Madam Mayor. Fellow Councilmembers. Thank you for the
opportunity to share with you our perspective on what my wife Maryanne and I consider
to be a defining issue for our town and its residents. My comments today follow an email
letter that we sent to each of you on April 6th after attending last month's Town Council
meeting. We'd like to acknowledge and thank yourself, Madam Mayor, Vice Mayor,
Page 40 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 41 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Councilmember Grzybowski, for your thoughtful replies and your feedback, and I look
forward to hearing perspectives from the rest of you. As my wife just described to you,
living once again here in Fountain Hills now feels very different. Next door, vans with
smoke-tinted windows arrive and depart frequently, almost clandestinely, multiple times
a day. Each evening, we see several men, often not the same, out on the deck
overlooking our house. Seeing them makes me uncomfortable. I can't imagine how it
makes my wife and daughter feel. We now live next door, as she said, to one of those
sober living homes. A commercial, for-profit business, and no longer a residential
neighborhood. And because drug and alcohol abuse are linked with higher probability to
commit a crime, quite frankly, we don't feel safe in our home.
When I speak of recovering addicts, I recognize the overwhelming majority of these men
are good people who have had a bad break. And we fully support the concept of
providing them an opportunity to get their life back on track. I also know that
statistically, and with the constant turnover next door, we are now at a substantially
higher risk of encountering someone who is going to commit a crime against us. So it is
critically important to us that you, the town leadership, move forward to regulate these
businesses, beginning with the adoption of Ordinance 2101.
I cannot stress enough how important it is that the capacity limits proposed by Planning
and Zoning are adopted as part of this ordinance. With no grandfather clause associated
with this limit for these detox rehab center pop-ups. And couple that with the ability to
inspect them, without notice, as an aid for law enforcement. Simply allowing these
commercial businesses to operate in our residential neighborhoods is already more than a
reasonable accommodation. Because of the increased crime risk associated with
recovering drug and alcohol addicts, it also is essential that these businesses carry
additional liability insurance. It's not a typical business. Please adopt the proposal put
forward by Planning and Zoning. Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, it is imperative that
you come together and correct this situation by enacting Ordinance 2101, and approving
a version that restores the essence of our community. Thank you for listening.
[APPLAUSE]
MAYOR DICKEY: Please. Please refrain from applause. I'm asking you,please.
Next?
Page 41 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 42 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
CLERK KLEIN: Natalie Marston-Salem.
MARSTON-SALEM: Good evening Mayor, Council, and staff. I will start by
introducing myself again for those who may not remember. My name is Natalie
Marston-Salem. My husband, John Salem, and I are the owners of Fountain Hills
Recovery. At last month's Council meeting, I spoke about how our facility came to
fruition because of the loss of my father, Maurice, a dedicated fire captain for nearly 30
years. Tonight I would like to take the time to address the rumors, gossip, and
misconceptions, specifically about our facility, and our two sober living homes within the
Town. We first opened and began serving our clients in late 2016. For many years, a lot
of you probably didn't even know we existed in Fountain Hills because of the fact that the
issues being raised are simply not accurate.
Our two sober living homes are both licensed by the Arizona Department of Health, as
well as AZRHA, the Arizona Recovery Housing Association. Our inpatient and
outpatient facilities are also licensed by the Arizona Department of Health, and
accredited by the Joint Commission, an organization that accredits health care
organizations and programs, holding them to the highest standard of care. This is not a
requirement, but something we feel is a necessity in order to provide the highest level of
quality care for our clients. I would like to stress that our homes are not detox homes, as
I have frequently seen them referred to on community social media pages. There are no
detox services being offered or provided to clients. In order to be residents in our homes,
clients are currently receiving therapeutic services daily in our clinical program at our
facility overlooking the fountain. Our homes are staffed 24/7, and clients do not have
access to their cell phones, nor do they have access to come and go in their personal
vehicles. They are all in the care of our well-trained staff at all times.
Our sober homes have not been the subject of any identifiable or substantiated criminal
concerns. There have been no arrests, no property crimes, no graffiti, no destruction on
public property, no noise ordinance complaints, no drug arrests, no public intoxication
incidents, and no petty crimes associated with the sober living homes operated by
Fountain Hills Recovery. In fact, there has not been any police interactions or code
enforcement issues relating to such homes. Furthermore, none of our homes have been
shut down by the State agency, as claimed by one member of the community.
Page 42 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 43 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
The claims from residents that drug paraphernalia found in the Town belongs to our
clients is absolutely false and unsubstantiated. Sadly, these are outright lies and
falsehoods aimed at shedding a negative light on addiction treatment, sober living homes,
and specifically our facility. I find it very disheartening and sad that there are those in
this community to go out of their way to rally against a facility that has done nothing but
good for the community and changed people's lives -- actually saved people's lives.
I want to make it abundantly clear that this is not just a business to us. We are
passionate about what we do, and how we are able to help others change their lives and
overcome their addiction. My husband and I are both at the facility every single day
overseeing the quality of care our clients receive, and always looking for ways to
improve and serve our clients to the best of our ability. I hope and pray for those of you
who have been so openly against individuals seeking treatment in sober living homes in
Fountain Hills, that you never have to experience having a loved on struggle with
addiction.
MAYOR DICKEY: If you please --
MARSTON-SALEM: I am hopeful and optimistic these types of open conversations will
allow us to have an open mind and some compassion to help those who are in need.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MARSTON-SALEM: Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Ma'am, excuse me. What town do you and your
husband resign in?
MARSTON-SALEM: I'm sorry?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: What town does (sic) you and your husband reside in?
MARSTON-SALEM: We live in Scottsdale on 130th and Shea.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Lori Troller.
TROLLER: Councilmen. Mayor. In front of you, there's a application from the State for
a sober home. And that came from the Arizona State website. Highlighted for you in
there is the fact that random alien individuals merely traveling through the United States
can apply for a sober home. In case you're ignoring the fact that the United States
borders are open, and that millions of illegals don't disintegrate when they walk into the
Page 43 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 44 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
country, sober homes is one of the methods used to integrate illegals into the United
States. So how can that be? And so let's look at the form. The only information required
of an individual to apply for a sober home is their name, their physical and email address,
and a phone number. That's it. The only form of identification required to apply for a
sober home ranges from a driver's license to merely an I-94 form, which states an
individual is traveling through the United States. And it's worth mentioning that up to
100 people can apply on one I-94 form.
As an illegal who can't fill out this form, that's addressed in here, too. There's a section
for somebody else to fill it out for them. So there you have it. Those are the State
requirements to apply for sober home ownership in Arizona. A name, address, a phone
number, and an email address. Oh, also, and a check to cover the licensing fee, which
with little explanation can be waived, let alone it's not required for homes under five. So
if keeping recovering people safe, and local residents supportive, wasn't enough reason
for a strong ordinance that will pass an FDA inspection, I just gave you another one.
Include insurance. Conversations with Planning and Zoning Commission, who's been at
this for 21 years in Prescott, advises the single largest reason they were able to properly
distribute a healthy number of sober homes in their town was the fact that they required
insurance. Florida also has a tremendous problem, and insurance requirements is how
they eliminated improper sober operations.
So I'm going to change topics. Regarding verbiage of reasonable accommodation in the
ordinance, a sober home applicant seeks a reasonable accommodation under FHA and
ADA, not a waiver. The legal terminology for exceptions to any legal ordinance is a
reasonable accommodation. FHA, ADA, FDA, even our schools refer to exceptions as
reasonable accommodations. There's no ethical reason to change the verbiage. And
finally, when you make your changes to the zoning ordinance, could you please explain
to the townspeople how each of your decisions benefit the townspeople. And that's it.
Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Liz Gildersleeve.
GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening. Once again, I am here tonight to ask those of you
who have the privilege of sitting on this council to do the right thing by the vast majority
of your neighbors, and approve the very reasonable Planning and Zoning
Page 44 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 45 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
recommendations as written, not watered down, for sober homes in our community.
Unfortunately, it now appears that Councilmembers Scharnow and Magazine, in
particular, hold those of us who've been vocal about stronger regulations for sober homes
with much disdain and contempt. My apologies to both of you for taking an active
interest in local issues that directly impact our homes and neighborhoods. Given Mr.
Magazine's own recent words several weeks ago, where he stated that he "goes 180
degrees in the opposite direction" when citizens get too, as he put it "demanding", and
Mr. Scharnow's own words in last week's Times'unusually lengthy opinion piece, as well
as his own involvement as the new director-- I assume it's a paid position-- for the Drug
Coalition, not to mention his coalition possibly having received financial donations from
the sober home and detox industries, how can the public be assured that Mr. Sharnow's
and Mr. Magazine's decisions will be objective tonight?
As I've said in the past, this is the most important and impactful issue right now for our
town. Hence, the reason why you hear from many of us meeting after meeting. And I
hope that I will leave tonight being completely surprised, and that each of you will do the
right thing by putting residents first, and voting for the very reasonable P&Z
recommendations, several of which are already in place today in cities around us. And
something that is not often mentioned, the P&Z recommendations would also protect the
vulnerable residents living in the sober homes. For example, with a smaller occupancy
limit of five residents, longer distances between homes for better rehabilitation, and even
more robust liability insurance requirements should anything tragic happen in a sober
home or neighborhood -- and rest assured, it's bound to happen. If you are unable,
tonight, to advocate aggressively for Fountain Hills residents and neighborhoods, then
our local elections for a new mayor and new councilmembers cannot come soon enough.
Thank you.
[APPLAUSE]
MAYOR DICKEY: If you want me to recess, and then we'll go on and on,please don't
applaud. It's in the rules. It's ethics. Let's just be polite. Don't applaud. Give everybody
a chance to have their say. Or I'll just recess, and we'll just start again in a half-hour.
Please stop.
CLERK KLEIN: Rita Brown.
Page 45 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 46 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
BROWN: Good evening. Thank you for allowing me my opportunity to diatribe at you.
I had to leave my glass house high up on the hill to address the invasion of a giant
industry into my single family neighborhood. In the recent opinion piece in The Fountain
Hills Times, words were used that were intended to shame me into silence, words such as
bias, fear,paranoia, anger. But here's the thing: Every time I remain silent, I lose. It's
clear members of my town Council believe I'm too biased and paranoid to remember that
addicts have families. I must be caring of addicts' families after they have abandoned
their own families. But I too have a family. And I choose to protect them first. I made
the decision to live in a single family area as part of my plan for caring. While some
council members may believe the fairy tale that people in recovery actually choose to go
to recovery, the fact is that many are there against their wills. When the judge said,jail
or rehab, they opted for a resort lifestyle over jail.
Most are not from our town. Many are not even from our state. And some have arranged
for drug drops before showing up. Those drug drops increase the presence of drug
dealers on my street. For a second time, I interrupted a drug drop at the drug house on
Nicklaus Drive. I went to the Sheriffs office and reported it. I've requested increased
presence of the Sheriff on my street in the hours just before sundown, but that's just my
paranoia showing again. The drug industry is a multi-billion-dollar industry. A single
family neighborhood is no place for that billion-dollar industry. Our town lawyer is
fearful we'll be sued. The federal government requires only that reasonable
accommodation be made. As the taxpayer in this town, I consider it more than
reasonable accommodation to allow members of that billion-dollar industry into a single
family neighborhood. Just as we tightly regulate height, width, locks, every minute detail
for swimming pool fences on private property, we need to have very stringent regulations
for our local drug industry.
Here's an inconvenient fact: Persons who complete an inpatient rehab program are not
significantly more or less likely to succeed at staying clean than their intensive outpatient
program counterparts. In other words, it is the intention of the addict that determines
treatment outcome. Nothing I do -- my bias, paranoia, fear, and anger have no bearing on
the outcome of the treatment. How many AA meetings are we hosting in the community
center, in the library, and in the Town Hall? Thank you.
Page 46 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 47 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Darla Jacobs.
JACOBS: You're tough people to follow. And I think the first two people said it all.
And a lot of replication. I understand that a lot of other people have sent several emails
to some of the people in this room, and to no avail. After seeing this slide presentation
and the proposal online, I realize that my concerns and the concerns of others have fallen
on deaf ears. I also have to admit that the Town's building developments and ordinances
are being influenced by the political ideology of many of the voting members before me.
The key elements of protection for Fountain Hills' residents and for sober home living
residents have been gutted from the Planning and Zoning Commission's ordinance. The
P&Z ordinance strictly adhered to the State's land use perspective, which are the very
land use governances that reside with our municipality. They may not be common to
other towns, but they are in line with State governances. The P&Z effort also took the
better part of a year with the assistance of a retired attorney and concerned residences to
put those ordinances together. I'm speaking here tonight because I believe that the
proposed ordinance changes lower the bar on the high standards Fountain Hills' residents
expect from their elected officials, and raise the potential for bad actors looking to make
large profits from high fees and Fountain Hills' weak ordinances.
The topic I have chosen to discuss is the removal of the general liability insurance clause,
which is one of four major changes to the Planning and Zoning ordinance. First, the State
of Arizona does not require liability insurance. The State also does not prohibit
municipalities from requiring it. It's the Town's choice, and it is in line with land-use
governances. The two major operators of several sober living in Fountain Hills are for-
profit businesses and should be treated as such. It's irresponsible for the governing body
of our town not to require liability insurance for a business that has the potential for
enormous risk. The risk is such that insurance companies specifically do not cover sober
living homes under their standard homeowner or landlord policies. Standard homeowner
coverage is not designed for the unique exposures of a recovery residence. And some
states make it mandatory to have this insurance due to the litigious exposure. Are we so
blind that we do not see the risks to sober living home residents and others? In addition,
quoting Michael Scharnow's comments recently in The Fountain Hills Times, the
municipal risk pool provided with a $10,000 deductible is much more complicated than
Page 47 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 48 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
what's portrayed. It's not an automatic slam dunk. Now I'm really concerned. The town
may not even have a backup insurance source.
At approximately$20,000 or more for a month's stay in a sober living home, operators
can well afford to pay for general liability insurance. They may not like it, but it should
be the cost of doing business in Fountain Hills, especially when it provides protection for
their vulnerable residents and themselves. Do what's right. Listen to your Planning &
Commission, and put the general liability insurance clause back in the ordinance, perhaps
without the subrogation, if necessary.
MAYOR DICKEY: Richard Rutkowski.
RUTKOWSKI: Mayor and Council, as many of you know, I'm a 20-plus-year resident of
Fountain Hills. My comments are directed in part specifically to the Ordinance 22-01
regarding what is now being termed "community residences", which I, and I suspect
many of those who are paying attention, consider a creative euphemism for what are
more commonly referred to as sober homes. My comments also apply to a broader
perspective of town government. First, a specific comment about Ordinance 22-01, the
Planning and Zoning Commission has addressed this issue in a responsible,
comprehensive manner, and in a way that recognizes the views and concerns of the
residents of Fountain Hills, that it and you are obligated to represent and serve. The large
numbers of attendees at many past meetings and tonight make the viewpoint of the
Town's residents very clear. It is clear to me that a few of you on the Council, and we
know who you are, actually listened to what the residents of Fountain Hills want and
what we do not want. Sadly, the rest of you, and we know who you are, prefer to follow
another agenda, and fail to listen to what the residents want, and what we do not want.
Now, the broader perspective, we should have a representative government, a
government that is responsive, responsible, and accountable. We should not have to fight
a town government on so many issues, whether it be the lagoon, the primary property tax,
daybreak, or this current issue of sober homes, community residences, whatever the title.
I'll remind you that all those past ill-advised attempts by Council failed. And a few of
them failed with a voter turnout that shattered Maricopa County records for voter turnout
in a municipal election. We should not have to fight. But we did it before, and we can
do it again. The point for tonight is that you have the opportunity to listen, to do what is
Page 48 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 49 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
right, to do what the people want, to enact what P&Z has proposed, after listening to the
people. You have that opportunity; I encourage you to please take advantage of it.
Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Cathi Marx.
MARX: Thank you. Mayor Dickey, Council members, first, I just want to say, before I
get formal, my heart breaks for this family who lives next door to the ten men, because I
see them on their patios, with their shirts off, on their patio smoking. I can't imagine
living next door with my daughter. It's also very different visiting a sober home during
the day than living next door to one. I want to start with a sincere thank you to the P&Z
Commission, who has taken the time to really listen to the residents regarding our
concerns about the sober living homes in our residential communities. They understood
the real world implications of what it's like to have a sober home, or two sober homes, or
three sober homes in your immediate neighborhood. They understood when we brought
in the drug waste, which I found and collected. And I resent the fact that it wasn't true,
right, that we found near homes that prove that drug use was active. We explained our
concerns for our families, children, grandchildren, pets, who may get exposed to the
waste in our streets and front yards that may still have drug residue, or worse, fentanyl
residue. They understood when we explained what it's like when there are fights between
residents and the police are called in the middle of the night, or screams in the early
morning because someone is still detoxing and is having a bad night and the ambulances
are called. They understood when we explained that on holidays, ambulances are more
common at these sober homes due to suicide attempts. Yes, all this can happen in any
home, but take each home and multiply the probability by eight or ten.
Add the talking too late at the night on the back patios or the nonstop smoking that goes
into your bedroom window. Not even mentioning the large Mercedes vans that go up and
down, up and down, up and down, up and down our streets. Then the constant honking
when they arrive to let people know it's time to come in and load up. Councilman
Magazine said, he wanted to rebrand Fountain Hills as a wellness destination. Does that
rebranding start now with possibly a detox facility on top of it? Here's my commercial:
Heroin addict, meth addict, alcoholic, no problem, come to Fountain Hills, Arizona,
detox for 90 days in our beautiful, small town in the hills above Scottsdale. After your
Page 49 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 50 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
stay, then spend another 90 days in a luxury mansion nestled within a residential
community, as you try to remain sober. Don't worry if you relapse; you only have to
drive another ten minutes back to the detox facility to start over. I thought we wanted to
be known for the new International Dark Sky Discovery Center. Who is going to want to
Fountain Hills with their family for a vacation when we are known for our drug addicts
and detox centers? I'll answer that question for you: no one. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Crystal Cavanaugh.
CAVANAUGH: Good evening, Fountain Hills residents. Do not water down this
ordinance from either fear of litigation or other motivations. But first, I do want to thank
you, Mr. Scharnow, for your good works with the youth in the drug prevention coalition.
No one here is against drug prevention programs. In fact, youth programs actually have a
higher success rate. But the councilman tried to confuse the issue by leveraging his good
works and mixing them with this local zoning ordinance that protects our community.
He stated as fact that losing in litigation was guaranteed. Why so quick to roll over?
Where is the leadership? If towns only follow what others have done, we end up with a
cookie-cutter ordinance with no one taking a stand for actual people or locations.
Everyone runs scared when a recovery consultant says the word "discrimination". Even
Mr. Scharnow accuses community bias in his article. There have been varying court
opinions, and some of these issues have not even been litigated; they've simply been
negotiated and accepted.
No one denies that there are drug problems here, but I challenge these so-called sober
homes to give specifics on the actual number of Fountain Hills residents in them. I say
almost all are from elsewhere. And there are many drug programs available across the
valley. Approving the key component, such as reduced occupancy to six, increased
distance, and commercial liability insurance are non-negotiable, in my opinion. And
adding that grandfather clause to allow the higher occupancy levels to continue in the
current rented, not purchased, homes does absolutely nothing to change the status quo,
and it's a total cop-out. Decreasing occupancy by their yearly renewal should be required
at a minimum. And why fight so hard against the insurance requirement? Legitimate
organizations operating properly have no problem obtaining such insurance. If you pass
an insufficient ordinance without the key protections, I certainly hope the people of
Page 50 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 51 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Fountain Hills realize you do not have our best interests at heart. And you are not
listening, once again. Some of you actually seem to have a disdain for the residents who
stand up to speak. You think we don't understand the issues of addiction, that we think
it's a character flaw or a simple matter of willpower. But in reality we do indeed
understand, and as you said, we have all been touched by it. My very own brother hung
himself after years in the cycle of addiction and in and out of treatment programs.
Returning to substance abuse is a typical story. But the model requiring million-dollar
homes in single family neighborhoods that house four times the average household is not
about treatment; it is about money. And neighborhood residents should not have to pay
the price. We are not discriminating against the recovery clients, but the residents of
Fountain Hills would appreciate it if this Council would stop discriminating against us.
CLERK KLEIN: Andy Bennett.
BENNETT: Thank you all. Thank you for taking the time to allow me to speak this
evening. This will be the fourth time I have come here to speak on behalf of the
individuals receiving and seeking treatment for substance abuse in Fountain Hills.
Addiction is a condition that carries a lot of baggage. It's very tough to recover from, and
despite what the Prescott newspapers of 2017 would have you believe, there's a shortage
of effective treatment for addiction. It's estimated that only 30 percent of drug treatment
nationwide meets the minimum standard for care. The success rates are even lower and
much harder to track. It's important, though, that we don't confuse the problem with the
solution. I think most people can understand what the problem with addiction looks like:
broken homes, death, incarceration, and institutionalization. Also in areas where there's
high concentration of drug abuse, crime is a huge problem. We're blessed that that's not a
problem in Fountain Hills.
The solution for substance abuse is also well documented and well researched: therapy,
psychiatry, and peer support. There's been a lot of talk about bad actors in the treatment
industry as well. Well, there's bad actors in every industry and every institution
worldwide, whether it's institutions such as schools or churches; we've all heard stories
that have reverberated across the country. Bad actors do damage to well-intended
individuals in all industries. The 2019 community views survey in Fountain Hills found
that participants believed that drug and alcohol abuse was the top issue affecting youth in
Page 51 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 52 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Fountain Hills, followed by anxiety and depression. This series of meetings feels largely
in conflict with that poll, rather than a conversation around how to expand access to care,
whether it's increasing the distance radius between homes or reducing the number of
people that can reside in the homes. Nobody's talked about any flexibility in the newly
proposed rules, such as we are going to restrict access in these locations, but increase
access over here --there's absolutely none of that.
Today's meeting is a continuation of the conversation on how to limit the access to
treatment for drug addiction in the city of Fountain Hills and avoid litigation. Exactly
how restrictive can we be? It's the same conversation that's been going on for the better
part of a year. Lastly, because the City of Prescott is brought up so frequently in these
meetings, I'd like to remind to everyone that the solution that was put into place to
remedy the clustering of sober homes in Prescott are more lax than the zoning
requirements already in place in Fountain Hills. Simultaneously, the State of Arizona has
also started licensing and regulating sober living homes, which it has never done before.
As I said in the last meeting, it feels like a solution in search of a problem. And it's my
hope that the regulations on sober living stay as is. A couple off-topic comments, that I
didn't write.
MAYOR DICKEY: You're almost out of time here, sorry.
BENNETT: Am I out of time?
MAYOR DICKEY: Not, not yet, but almost.
BENNETT: Okay. Liability insurance, everyone has it. If you want to advertise on
Google, you have to have a liability insurance, so I think that you're going to see that's
pretty common around. So if you guys require it, that's okay, but everyone has it in a
sober living home. If you don't have it and you're operating in Fountain Hills, you can't
operate in Fountain Hills. So --there's that. Thank you very much.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Mr. Bennett, where do you reside?
BENNETT: I reside out of town,just like 90 percent of the other people who work here.
CLERK KLEIN: Larry Meyers.
MEYERS: Mayor, Council. Well, it's just about all been said, and I've been saying it
since last year. But here's another three-minute diatribe. To explain something that is
absolutely overlooked, and is absolutely pushed by the detoxification industry to confuse
Page 52 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 53 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
the issue, what you're here to discuss tonight, this issue is about allowing a business or
businesses to profiteer and bolster bottom lines at the expense of residential property
owners,plain and simple. The Council, if you don't want to protect the residential
property owners, you can ignore reality about this business or promote fallacies. So
Councilman Scharnow was very excellent in pointing out all of the fallacies in his one-
third-of-a-page opinion piece in the paper. Others have pointed it out. I'm not going to
get into it. But I want to tell you my conversations with the State -- at the highest levels
levels have told me that there are no sober homes in Fountain Hills. Okay? So let's get
rid of that fallacy. These are residential detoxification facilities. I don't care what you
heard; that's what the State says.
While Councilman Scharnow now that we have problems here, I agree. He says we tend
to have them at a lesser degree, and I say probably, because Fountain Hills is a great
place. But I don't see the need for the Town to allow a business to take people who don't
live here and expand to a point where --Councilman Scharnow brought up, he doesn't see
them proliferating -- when I first spoke, there was one. As I speak, there may be six.
That's a 500 percent increase in 15 months. I'd call that proliferation. And I'm going to
point out that Mr. Bennett's business is in the business of growing this business. Check
his website out.
So now back to the real issue, land use. The Council continually hides behinds the
State-- this comes from the State; the State is solely interested in the governance of the
activity that occurs within the home from a clinical perspective. They have no desire or
jurisdiction to address the use of a home for any purpose from a land-use perspective.
All governances related to land use rest with the municipality. Thus, the word
"preemption" gets thrown around a lot. The only real, valid use of the word "preemption"
is that the State via the DHS inspects for functional use within the home. Local
jurisdictions have not been preempted from land-use perspective, and while -- I would
just like to finish so I can say, while I feel Councilman Scharnow's pain, because my son
knows his family, I think that that's conflating the issue, and as I stated, I think the P&Z
understood this, understood it best, and I'd like to see what they understood put into
place. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Jane Bell.
Page 53 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 54 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
BELL: Good evening, Council and Mayor. First, I want to thank the Mayor for taking
my phone call. It's always good to talk to Ginny. I want to explain the information I
used. Phoenix, I talked to Rachel Escalar(ph.). Page 5,paragraph 3, general liability
required. Page 9, paragraph e, owner must maintain general liability insurance. Page 14,
per the permit a law enforcement officer or agency to inspect Mesa's Ann Marie Fantasia.
Page 5, license a-7 copy of operator's insurance policy. Page 8, g, liability insurance, one
mill three two. Page 6, paragraph 6, inspection. Here is a stack of information that has
taken us a year to put together. We sat and read case law up until midnight. Nobody has
tried to give you any wrong information. If we did, it was not on purpose. Along with
this stack of papers, we were lucky that had a Representative Kavanaugh that took us
under right at the very beginning when we were trying to search out all of the different
laws and where they've gone. Because of him, we met with their legal department, their
code, their head of the DHS, and they really educated us. We are very fortunate, and we
can contact him and get to their legal things to get the answers.
Why all this information? Years ago, I was involved teaching drug education and
savings kids' lives, before all of you were born, except maybe Magazine.
[LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Jane, it's always pleasure.
BELL: Remember the count of six in the house. It has gone to the Ninth Circuit Court.
The U.S. Supreme Court, the Town may write any ordinance provisions necessary to
protect the welfare, including the number of occupants, proving it does not over-
discriminate. After talking to the Mayor, I realized we were on different roads, because
these drug items didn't blow in. I hope you'll look at the Article 2, R9-12-210, the
administration of the home. I gave you the State and I gave you papers out of the
Phoenix ordinance that deals with that. Phoenix has 8 pages. I gave you the State to look
at. We need people to be involved in our government -- three minutes you give is
important, is democracy at work. We and the Council should be one team, wanting the
same outcome. Please go back and look at that article on administrating the home. Be
sure you have 24 hours management, they know CPR, and there's Narcon available in
that home that can be given. You have to protect the addicts.
The detox ordinance is coming next. I wonder where Fountain Hills is going to be.
Page 54 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 55 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
We've had our property here for over 44 years. We love this town, but I am concerned
about where it's going. Addicts can get well in a -- not a million-dollar home, or riding
around in a Mercedes. We have to watch where we're going with it. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Representative Kavanagh.
KAVANAGH: Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to speak. State
Representative John Kavanaugh, Fountain Hills. First, let me go on record as saying that
I erroneously ascribed to staff at the last meeting that they had rewritten the ordinance
that P&Z done. I had criticized them; however, I since realized that they were simply
presenting alternatives to the thing, so that was not warranted, and I want to go on the
record as saying that. However, I still do disagree with their recommendations, because I
think they watered down an ordinance and lessen the protection that the people need. I
spoke to the lawyers at the State capital, and they made it very clear to me that in areas of
planning and zoning, the State has not, in the least, preempted the Town from doing
regulation in this area. So when it comes to the number of people in the house and the
distances, which is planning and zoning, there was no problem with State law.
So you may ask, is there -- are there any other potential problems, and the answer is yes.
Federal law, because this has to do with the Americans Disabilities Act. And you have
to be able to give reasonable accommodation. So when you look at the recommendations
and you look at the surveys, where this town has so many feet, this town has so many
feet, nobody has the half mile, which we recommend. That doesn't mean you can't do
that, because the State doesn't control that. It's federal law, and based upon what the
federal government says. And as we learn that the thing the P&Z is needing, there are
other states that have half miles. So the feds haven't cracked down on these half-mile
regulations. So that would seem to suggest that we would be okay with the half mile. So
I think that's a reasonable thing to do.
The other problem has to do with fear of a lawsuit. If you are -- if you do a federal
violation, or a claimed one, you don't go right to court and spend a fortune on lawyers.
The first thing the federal government does is, is they call you in, they talk to you, they
may do mediation or arbitration between the parties, or they may say, you can't do this.
At any point, you can back out, and you have not racked up massive legal fees. So it's
not like going down this road is necessarily prohibitive. I would also state that, I think
Page 55 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 56 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
you can do inspections, because State law says that the State can contract with third
parties that do inspections. So you could conceivably contract with the State to pick up
that role, which you might want to do since they haven't got that much staffing in this
area. And if it requires a tweak in the law, I'd be more than happy to do that.
I think fire insurance and inspections are important. People with addictions have co-
addictions, like smoking, a lot of smoking, People who can relapse and get stoned.
There's a lot of fire problems there. I think that's a reasonable thing to do. Finally, let me
say, be careful about your waiver language, because what I heard was suggested, you
could drive a truck through. I think any waiver has to be based upon undue hardship; that
is unique to that particular house. So you don't open up the doorway, everybody can
claim, oh, this is not economically feasible and get their waiver. In closing, let me say,
the people who spoke here tonight who live near these homes are clearly concerned about
their quality of life, about their safety, and their peace of mind. Everybody else in this
room, everybody else in this town, could potentially be in the exact same situation.
Because these homes can open up next to any of our houses. So these people, the Town,
even yourselves, right, should expect no more than to have your peace of mind, your
safety, right, protected. And you should give no less. Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Representative Kavanaugh. Excuse me. I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can he ask a question?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah, I have a question. I genuinely do feel sorry
for the people who live next to these and see men looking in their windows, or whatever
they're doing. I genuinely do, but I want to ask you, in your mind, based on State law or
anything else, is there anything we can do about that?
KAVANAGH: Yes. Madam Mayor, Councilman Magazine, I would adopt the P&Z's
provisions. I would attempt to defend them as best I possibly could. Understand -- and
I'm not saying this applies to every staff member at every occasion. But I was on this
council for six years. I've been on the legislature for 16 years. And there's one thing I
can tell you about staff: They're conservative in their recommendations. That they tread
very gently. Because this is the bottom line, if a staff member says to you, you can do
that,pass that, make it so many feet, and you wind up getting sued and losing, there's a
staff member who's concerned about their job, and maybe with good justification. So if
Page 56 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 57 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
the staff member says, you can't do that, don't do it, and you don't do it, that staff member
never gets in trouble, because there's no lawsuit. But you have to say -- you have to say
to yourself, did I shortchange my constituents by not giving them -- giving them enough
protection. So I think P&Z's were reasonable, and I would stick by it and do the best, and
if you have to back out, I would back out.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I do hear you. But I'm not sure you've -- maybe I
didn't make my question clear enough.
KAVANAGH: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Let's assume that there's one of these one of these
houses right next door to you and you don't like it; there are problems. Is there anything
you can do about it?
KAVANAUGH: Well, yeah, I could go to my town council and I could ask to have these
restrictions put in. I could have aggressive code enforcement, doing -- inspecting --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: But you can't -- but you can't remove them?
KAVANAUGH: No. You -- no, you can't. Because that's the federal law. But you can
make them as least intrusive as possible. I had that with the party houses, the short-term
rentals. I couldn't -- I voted against it from the day one. I was the only Senator-- I knew
it was a disaster. I couldn't stop it, but I did come back the next year, and I banned
exclusive party event houses. So you go as far as you can. You push the limits.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And we appreciate that.
KAVANAUGH: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: John, I do want to ask something, because when Larry was up here,
he said something about that the State cares about what happens inside the house, but
then he said somebody from the State told him that it's detoxing that's happening, not
sober. So if they're the licensing -- what'd you say?
MEYERS: I said that they said that their records show there were no sober homes in
Fountain Hills.
MAYOR DICKEY: So these --
MEYERS: I said, they are detoxification facilities in residential properties; the State did
not say that. So I --
Page 57 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 58 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: The State said there are no sober living homes --
MEYERS: Quote.
MAYOR DICKEY: --but that they are only responsible for what goes on inside, not the
zoning stuff. So how can they license something that isn't really a sober living home?
How is it existing? We have four and they're sober living homes, licensed by the State.
So why would the State admit that there's no sober living homes?
KAVANAUGH: Yeah. I guess it comes down to the definition. There's a medical
definition. There's a legal definition. But the bottom line is, these people are in some
stage of detox, because quite frankly, they wouldn't need all this treatment if they didn't
have an addiction and they didn't need to kick that addiction. They're just in a later stage
than if they have to be in a hospital.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, they're --they are not technically, because a detox couldn't
happen in a residential area. It couldn't be licensed to happen in a residential area,
correct?
KAVANAUGH: From the -- Mayor, from the legal standpoint, but obviously these
people still crave the drugs. It's not -- the craving's not out of their system, so I guess if
detox is considered a medical, biological thing, then they're not detoxing. But in their
minds, I think they're still going through a stage that's close enough for government.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. It just --
[LAUGHTER]
CLERK KLEIN: Thanks. I give up. Barry McBride.
MCBRIDE: Madam Mayor, Council. My business is right across the street. I own two
buildings in Fountain Hills, but I'm sad to say I'm a resident of Scottsdale. Haven't been
able to get my wife to move here yet. But I'm working on it. I would like to say I'm so
impressed with the citizens. I'm inspired by the quivering voices, and I think that with
the quivering voices that would help you look at things maybe from a different
perspective. In this situation, serving along with the P&Z, there was research done
beyond Arizona border, which was really impactful. And I think that was reflected very
well in their-- in their recommendation. So we encourage you again to adopt P&Z's
recommendation as given. We think that's very, very important.
Mission number one of the Council, I would assume, to serve and protect the people.
Page 58 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 59 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
And when we hear stories of people that are not being served and not being protected, it
is very inspiring; it's very concerning. And it's the type of the story that would change
the way that you think to look at things through the lens of leadership, as opposed to
following other-- or other municipalities with undue restrictions. It's a very, very
concerning thing. And the issue is is we now have commercial enterprises in residential
zones that's causing the quivering voices of those that have come up and spoken, which is
quite unfortunate, it really is. Interesting, I cannot run a commercial insurance agency in
a residential area, but we can have detox facilities there. It's a real, real concern. I
implore you to listen to the quivering voices, to consider what they're going through and
living through. It's the lens of leadership.
And I'll follow up with this. I serve on a committee at the Phoenix Zoo, and one thing
that we do at the Phoenix Zoo is we are very, very considerate of where we place
different species because of the amount of stress that it causes from one to the other. So
said respectfully, said respectfully, because I will say that my cousin died of a heroin
overdose. So I do care deeply for those in treatment. But his treatment was at a facility,
not in a residence. But the key is is we have to make sure that we have commercial and
residential, because otherwise the mixing of the two creates an undue stress that's unfair
for residents. Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: John Pio -- Peo ? I'm --
PIO: Pio.
CLERK KLEIN: Pio, I'm sorry. I know I had it once before. And I couldn't remember
how I pronounced it.
PIO: Madam Mayor, Council, thank you. My wife and I have been residents of Fountain
Hills for 19 years. Fountain Hills is blessed in many ways, and in particular relating to
this agenda item, it's blessed to have a Planning and Zoning Commission that's willing to
do all of the hard work necessary to generate the best possible recommendations that
serve the interests of the Town and its residents. In particular, the Chairman, Peter Gray,
is obviously highly competent, talented, and motivated to do the best possible job in
supporting you all on the Council. My observations are that the recommendations
developed by Chairman Gray, and the commission were based on extensive research,
factual evidence, due sensitivity to legal issues, and consideration of what best serves this
Page 59 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 60 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
community as well as the operators and especially the residents of the sober homes. I
believe the recommendations should be adopted substantially as proposed and not be
weakened because of supposed or speculated future litigation.
We've all seen the disastrous results of weak ordinances in other locales, and we're
feeling some of those consequences within our own community. And they're not rumors.
And I think there's people here that would disagree that this is a solution in search of a
problem. The adoption of strong but fair ordinances may carry some risk of litigation.
But what possible legitimate consideration can come before protecting this town and its
residents? Thank you.
CLERK KLEIN: Allen Skillicorn.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Mayor, Council, staff, and also thank you for your time,
your commitment, and, you know, evenings like this go late, and we want to respect your
time. And thank you and I appreciate your time.
My name is Allen Skillicorn, and I'm just here because I think people are more important
than special interests. And when I look at that Planning and Zoning Ordinance that was
unanimously approved, it just seems like it's very common sense to me. It seems
reasonable. When I listen to my neighbors, they seem to agree with me too. They say--
I hear it over and over, common sense, reasonable. They seem to agree with me too.
And I hear tonight, you know, whether it's the presentation and some of the questions and
comments. It sounds like I heard the word "can't" a lot. And I'd really like to hear the
word "can". And I'll give you an example of the differences. When we talk about, you
know, the State does inspections, the Town can't do inspections, the State doesn't require
insurance, the Town can't require insurance --when I -- when I hear this, it just-- can't,
can't, can't. Well, I believe in the word "can". So we have a State legislator who's in the
audience here, who lives in town here. If we need this change a State law, he can
propose the legislation. It may not be immediate. It might take some time. It might
take-- it might be next session that this happens. But we, the people, can change the law
here in the State. This town also has a congressman that resides in the Town, and many
of us have his cell phone number in our phones. If federal law, if ADA is a problem, we
can approach him, and he can file legislation. And potentially, that could be changed;
that could be changed long period of time, short period of time, but we can effect change.
Page 60 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 61 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
And I want-- I just want to point that out.
When I hear the proposed ordinance about the waiver, there was a couple objections
there. One -- that -- didn't I hear of an objection is these, the commission, the three-
person commission, for the waiver? Now, one issue I have with that is that this is an
unelected commission. The people on there are not accountable to the public,because
they're not elected. I do have a significant problem with that. I hear a complaint about,
or, you know, a recommendation of lowering the distance. Still I think the people of this
town deserve to have an opportunity to not have these in these clusters, considering the
topography of our town and the -- and the washes, the half a mile does not seem
unreasonable.
Now, I did want-- a couple of other things. Like, if one of these facilities moved in next
door to you, would you be okay that they weren't required by the Town to have liability
insurance? Think about, if they were next door to you, would you be okay with that? If
one moved next door to you, would you be okay if the Town did not come in and do
inspections? Would you be okay with that? If one moved in right next to you, would
you be okay with the limit of six versus ten? Would you be okay with that? And the
reason I ask the question in such a way is because there are people in this -- in here that
have these right next door to them. And they are not okay with the watering down of this
ordinance. So I respectfully ask, if you feel uncomfortable with watering down any of
these items, tonight is the night to speak up; tonight is the night -- the night to do so.
And I don't know if you are guys are open-minded to keeping the Planning and Zoning,
you know, recommendations. I hope you are, but if you have any feeling that you're
uncomfortable with not having insurance, not having inspection, not having these limits,
speak up tonight. The people of the Town want to hear you. Thank you so much.
CLERK KLEIN: Ed Stizza.
STIZZA: Good evening. And Mayor, Town Council, and staff. I'm a resident of
Fountain Hills. I cannot say anything more other than, finally, you guys are going to be
held accountable for your vote tonight. This is an important vote. You have heard from
all the residents. You have heard from the Town. You have heard from everybody you
possibly can, and if you can't make the right decision this time, then God help you. So --
thank you.
Page 61 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 62 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Those were all the speaker cards. I think --
so right now, I just want to say a couple of things. So I understand that you would like us
to follow exactly what the Planning and Zoning said, but I think you noticed even at the
last meeting, some of the changes that we made were necessary, and no one objected to
them on Planning and Zoning either. I think -- I know you want us to listen, and I believe
that we have been listening and obviously care about this. Representative Kavanaugh
knows about how I feel about the short-term rentals, and I feel like it's kind of the same,
sort of intrusion, it can be, but we also -- we are preempted in a lot of ways. Part of me
sees this State, as the licensing entity, that they should be responsible to make sure that
they're not detox or there's no active treatment going on or that there's not 12 people
living there or whatever-- whatever they're-- they made those accommodations to give
them the license. Why are they not in charge of taking care of them? And if we don't
like the fact that something has to happen that the State tells us to do, why isn't that -- and
you did mention that, you know, going back to try and to change some of those laws.
But when you talk about the insurance, it literally was the State law that made Phoenix,
Mesa, and Prescott have to take that off their books. So I don't know how that translates
into us being able to do that with the State. The other things that were talked about, I --
everybody goes through that at some -- at one point or another with a-- with a neighbor.
Whether it's a dog or fighting people or the smoking, or you don't -- you don't have a
smoking neighbor ever? You don't have fights ever?
What I'm saying is that when Allen asked about what would you do about that, some of
this stuff is a little -- you know, it's not cut and dry, and -- but I do ask since we do have
some folks here in the industry, you know, sometimes you have to act like neighbors, like
we have to ask a neighbor about a dog or about smoking or about fighting or partying or
any of that kind of stuff. So we have to weigh a lot of different things as we move
forward, including the law. So that's what -- that's what going through our minds.
There's no -- there's no hubris here; there's no fun here. There's nobody trying to help
somebody with some motivation or another. But we have been trying to make our way
through this in the best way for all 25,000 people that live here. So anyway, what -- do I
close the hearing, and do we -- can we continue to speak after that?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Mayor, you can go ahead and close the hearing, and then if the
Page 62 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 63 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
council members have additional comments, by all means.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So additional discussion? On what we went through? Gerry
and Vice Mayor.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Mayor, tonight we heard a lot of people mention the
insurance issue. So I'm just wondering if there's some kind of a model for a rated risk
that we could take a look at across the board for all of our business community so that
we're not singling out one sector of the business community. And I'm wondering if
there's some model or something that we can take a look at to give us more information
in that area.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I have a couple of thoughts and a response to that question,
Councilman. The first is that, is there some sort of model -- I mean, sure there are model
policies, right. Like, you know, the insurance industry has model policies all the time for
commercial general liability, property owner's insurance. And it's just a question of
what's the nature of the business and what's an appropriate limit. I'm not sure how we as
a town go with every business and try to figure out what limits would be appropriate for
every type of business. But assuming that it was possible, it's -- at least one of the things
that sounded reasonable tonight is that -- and I don't -- you know, I'm kind of looking this
direction toward Mr. Bennett. He made a representation that sounds as though the
industry wouldn't have an issue with that sort of a provision. So I mean, I don't know if it
needs -- maybe it doesn't even necessarily need to be an issue, right? If it -- I don't know,
I'm sort of-- that was news to me.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: That's kind of where I was going --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: -- because when he made that statement, I'm thinking, there's
got to be a way to work that out.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah, I mean, right. My point is is that, look, if it's something
that the industry doesn't have an issue with, right, I still don't think it's something that
under State regulations we can require of a specific industry, right? But on the other
hand, if this is a sticking point and we mutually all recognize that it's a sticking point, that
it's a distinction with that difference, then maybe we include it and move on, if some of
the folks who have spoken here tonight in favor of reasonable regulations are okay with
Page 63 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 64 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
that. But that I'm not going to put words in anyone's mouth, I'm just trying to come up
with a reasonable solution here that sort of makes both parties mutually satisfied.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can the State require insurance?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I'm sure the State could require insurance if it chose to.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right, right, but the Town can't require somebody that buys a home
to get homeowner insurance. The town -- we're talking about us being able -- having the
ability to require insurance of one particular area, and that's the sticking point that the
State-- these--
ATTORNEY ARNSON: The State is the licensing agency.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: The State can require it.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) only have one thing to say is that from the
all insurance companies that I looked at, every one of them has an extra package for
sober homes.
MAYOR DICKEY: I understand, sir. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So there is a risk/reward -- they're all doing that because
of risk/reward.
MAYOR DICKEY: I understand. What -- I guess what we're trying to get to the bottom
of is the authority of the Town to require insurance from a particular enterprise, business,
home, whatever you want to call it. And we don't feel like we -- we don't have that
authority.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I want to let him talk.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. I don't know what the -- you know, I don't know what the
result of that is, because I came in here with the idea that we do not have the authority to
require insurance.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: And I still believe that's the case.
MAYOR DICKEY: And you still believe that's the case. Okay, thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Follow up, then say the State could do it.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Well, we have legislator Kavanaugh here, who
perhaps can try to make that happen at the legislative level. I see him nodding in
agreement that maybe that's possible.
Page 64 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 65 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: The other thing that I think we might have had some discussion
about was the distancing thing, so, you know, the 1320 was the quarter mile. So do you
want to talk about that?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah, may I? Yeah, Aaron, it's my understanding
that 1320 is the farthest distance between these homes, and any jurisdiction in Arizona; is
that correct?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: You're not doing me any favors tonight, Councilman. That is
correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Okay. So 1320.
ATTORNEYARSON: And that's in the --that's in an attachment to agenda 8B.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Right, right. So when it comes time for a motion, I
would be happy to make the motion to have it set at 1320 as opposed to 1200.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there any other discussion on this item? Mike?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: No. I -- you know, in my oft-quoted opinion piece
from last week, I said I was willing to look at changes and compromises and such. And I
too think 1320 is a good compromise from what was proposed when looking at other
jurisdictions. So --
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I agree. I feel like we don't want to be the test
of waters above the 1320. I think part of our job on Council is to our help protect from
lawsuits, so I feel like there's, what, 3 at 1320, and there was 5 or 6 at 1200. So I feel like
1320 is probably a safe place to go.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: (Indiscernible) motion. Mayor, I'm going to move
this along. I'm going to move that the separation requirement be set at 1320 feet.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is this a motion?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Yeah. I made a motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Well, are we going to -- do you want to take these one at a
time --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So the -- I think-- I think the best option with-- respectfully,
Councilman Magazine, I think the best option might to be -- to go through those five
areas that Director Wesley said. And if we can make a motion all at once --
MAGAZINE: Sure.
Page 65 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 66 of 80
MAY 3,2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
_tea
ATTORNEY ARNSON: -- that might really help. That might help us out.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Well --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Right, we still have to -- yeah, we still have to actually get the
ordinance, right, kind of--
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, so that we would take the break, so --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- so I'm good with the six and eight, if that's something anybody
wants to talk about.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Six and eight, you mean for occupancy? Thank you, Mayor.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: I mean, I'm willing to consider a lowering of
where we're at. I just think going down to six and eight is too much. And I'm kind of
surprised in terms of all this comment, this past year, I mean, knowing from the -- what
are we calling them, the family community residences. No one from that industry has
come forward to question us or give suggestions. I mean, this is going to impact them as
well. And, you know, we're kind of separating the two subcategories. I understand that,
but I think we're lowering the family one just to kind of give credence to lowering the
other one. And then, I mean, this could impact future people who want to open, you
know, these family community residences in the community. I mean, maybe the feeling
is ten's enough, but on the other hand, it's like we don't hear complaints about these
homes. So this industry is going to be impacted by this ordinance as well. I just want to
point that out, but I just --to me, six and eight is too much. But most of the communities,
the vast majority is are ten plus staff. And I'm not proposing that, but I just think what's
on the table here is too much.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. I'm good with six and eight. And what
it boils down to for me is quality of care. I think it's important. I have several members
of my family who are involved with drug and alcohol abuse. And I've seen it firsthand.
So six and eight for me are good, because of the improved quality of care, and it's got to
be number one with dealing with this. So I'm good with those numbers.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: While I agree with Councilman Scharnow that I
kind of feel like ten is a better number, I would be okay with talking six and eight if we
said that that does not include live-in staff. I do have a problem with six or eight people
Page 66 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 67 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
if that includes live-in staff.
MAYOR DICKEY: So we want to make sure we can come up with something that
Aaron feels he can move forward with. So I don't think we're there right now. I think we
probably need to hear from everybody else. David?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. As I stated before, a
month ago, well over a month ago, that I would not budge from that number, I will
continue to be steadfast and say that it's six and eight or I'm a no vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Alan?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Well, it's just a matter of getting it on the record. I
agree with Councilwoman Grzybowski; six and eight, not including staff, makes sense to
me.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Well, I'd go along with that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: (Indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: Six and eight with staff, including staff. Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: With the community residence, six to eight with
staff, and the (indiscernible).
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Can't hear you; your mic's not on.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: It is on.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, it's on.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Sony. I think that, with the community residence,
up to six to eight with staff is appropriate. And the other one, the transient one, up to six
with staff is appropriate. I think that, given what was said tonight, with the neighbor's
concerns, that-- about how many people they see and things like this, I think this is a
reasonable number. It's less than what was recommended, and it just seems like it would
work. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: And I know that the idea of neighborhood, you know, how many
people are in each house isn't something that they say is legitimate to use in a legal way,
maybe. But I think it does reflect on neighborhoods, and just like with short-term rentals
or anything else, trying as best as we can, under the constraints that we have to keep
neighborhoods and the characters of neighborhoods as residential areas is important. So
Page 67 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 68 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
there may be four for six and eight, with-- including staff? Did you see that?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah, that's good.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you agree?
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. What was the other thing -- license, insurance -- the
inspections.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I move that we not require inspections, that it's the
State licensing agency does the inspections; we can't do unannounced inspections.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think we could maybe help with the efforts to the legislature,
whether it's for funding or for whatever it takes so that inspections can be done regularly
and can be relied on, they can be requested, but that also reminds me, though, that there's
complaints online that --well, we just got some information today, and you touched
briefly on it, that I think 94 complaints were made in the last year, and 91 resulted in
citations. So I think it's a responsive mechanism that the State has in place. So I don't
think that the Town has the jurisdiction or the ability to do these unannounced
inspections. Like I said, we do do the fire inspections, and if there's code enforcement
sort of stuff, litter, anything that you see on the outside, too many cars, working on a car,
all those kind of things, we already have that ability for code inspection, but an interior
inspection unannounced, we're --we don't have the authority to do that, but I'd be happy
to help the State and advocate for funding or whatever it takes for the staff to be able to
do that. And then they could do that for all their cities.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I just wanted to reiterate when you said it 94
complaints that went in and 97 citations. That was based on the State, not on Fountain
Hills'number.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, right.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Just wanted to make sure that we said that.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: I'm wondering if the State outsources for those inspections,
is that something that we can get hooked up with to do that in our own town, if the State
is the one that is outsourcing that? Is that something we can on -- I don't know.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: It's something we can check. I have no idea whether a
H6TfRx cfr',55H5,'#T�'W.xitiS-T+w•a.y.,._.'+.F a..,st ri5:,..•. ., r...:n . ...
Page 68 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 69 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
municipality serves as a third-party contractor. It would be unusual. It doesn't mean it
doesn't happen. I just -- I don't know, yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: So basically it would be, like, they would hire somebody. And but
we would have to have that staff to be able to do that --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah, right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and such.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I mean, typically what you're going to see with any--with any
government body is they're going to do a procurement for, you know, an outside agency
to conduct their inspections, like how we do on-- like, for third-party inspections for
certain projects.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, right.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So it -- I can't imagine it's that different. I just -- maybe there's
like a workshare agreement or something like that. So it's possible; I just don't know the
answer to the question.
MAYOR DICKEY: Mike?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, Madam Mayor, thank you. Along the lines
of, you know, changes needed at the State level -- I mean, one of the speakers talked
about this initial application form and issues with, you know, aliens applying, that kind of
thing, the very loosey-goosey restrictions. Well, again -- that -- when you talk to the
State legislature and other folks at the State level, the changes form then. If it's
inadequate or you think it's lacking, that's -- you know, that's -- again, this is not a
Fountain Hills' forum, it's a State one, so take it up with the State.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you see, do you understand what's happening then here, right?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: No. Maybe I can --
MAYOR DICKEY: Enough--
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Maybe I can summarize really quick, and the town manager
gave a good suggestion about getting some consensus, whether through a vote or
otherwise, before we go and try to figure something -- changing out language on the six
and eight, whether it's including staff or not including staff. Include -- so-- include. I
see four head nods. So that's -- so if someone wants to try to, you know -- but that's how
we'll come back with it.
Page 69 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 70 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: As long as we do the grandfather language and the appeal language.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah. Were you -- you were suggesting have a vote, so we can
vote on ordinances --
MANAGER MILLER: Well, it's -- the suggested motion does say, the ordinance that
they approved, the amended ordinance, with the --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: -- amended --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I think I understand what the Council's looking for. Do you
want me to reiterate so that we're all on the same page? Okay. And then if I'm missing
anything, maybe Director Wesley can help us out. Sounds like the consensus is for
1,320-foot distancing requirement; occupancy limits at six for transitional, eight for
community residences. That would be including staff in both respects. We didn't discuss
this, but something that does -- that staff is recommending need to be re-inserted is the
waiver language. It sounds like we have a consensus about insurance requirements,
about not including those insurance requirements. It sounds like we have consensus -- at
least there was no objection to Councilwoman McMahon's request to remove the last
clause of Section 3(B)(8), which doesn't have a material effect on the ordinance. We
have a consensus about the inspection requirements, about removing those. And am I
missing anything, John?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: No.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yes. Am I -- and am I missing anything, John? And hopefully
everyone heard what I just said so I don't have to --
MAYOR DICKEY: The membership of the appeal, the three-person, like, committee,
which it's purposely not elected, I think, because I think we're trying to look at a way of
getting it real straight, you know,just more of adjustment. It doesn't get straighter than
that.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: And Mayor, it looks like -- my guess we'll go ahead and
include that in the way-- as a provision of the waiver language.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is everybody-- was okay with P&Z --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So -- is everyone okay with that? Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- or adjustment. Director?
Page 70 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 71 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Right. That's what I thought it was.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I think, correct me if I'm wrong. I think we said that it
would either be the P&Z chair or, if he's not able to make it, a designee.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: And that would be same with the board of
adjustments?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I would assume so, yes. Uh-huh.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: And just another note. So we're going to do some follow-up
on the insurance, whether-- and also the inspection with whether the State will allow --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Right.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: -- hire us to --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah. So it -- so it sounds like the consensus is for these
requirements to either be modified or removed with the recognition that there's something
that probably can and should happen at the State level. So hopefully we can have that as
a legislative priority, you know, if that's something the Council chooses to do.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay, thank you.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Mayor, if I may,jump in. The one thing that we really haven't
discussed much, but I did bring up it up in the -- it's my presentations. We talked about
the legal nonconformities and the possibility of the transfer of a license, that we might
add some language into the ordinance that deals with that to make sure that's clear what
those rules are, so that would be another piece that we would add in here as we bring this
back for your final consideration. If that's agreeable?
MAYOR DICKEY: It's the nonconforming use -- the nonconforming--
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Existing facilities.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yeah, and then to transfer the license.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: That the license of the owner would not be
transferred -- not transferable?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: And again, it's --we are bound to keep people that have --bought --
they bought their property or they're operating a business under certain zoning, and then
iF.,: lsa`=...: ... . ,. „ ,. -.. N t:'s.." .... •.. -,..+.+r,.Au.*.4e�Wf 'F 2'titR!aM" .5r
Page 71 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 72 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
if that zoning gets changed -- this is what happened with parking requirements over by
McDonald's, because that was there before any of the zoning was. So that's a
nonconforming use, and we are not able to change zoning out from under people that are
there. But if a new one should pop up, or a new operator or a new residence, they will
know, going forward, that this is the law. Yes, sir?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: I have a question. So will the reasonable accommodation
review, will that be a public process or will that be behind closed doors, or how is that
going to be handled?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I can answer it. Yeah, I don't know that it's necessarily right to
say "closed doors". But it's -- yeah, but it's intended to be an administrative process.
Generally, as far as I know, I'm not aware of actually one that is a -- like a council
process; maybe there is one and I'm not just aware of it. But they are -- generally are
administrative processes at a staff level. And in this instance, we happen to be taking it
in a hybrid approach, right, with the two Council appointees and then a member of staff
that would be your zoning administrator, development services director.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I don't have any issue with it being an administrative
process, but by the same token, I think that that administrative process should be open to
the-- you know, it should be made public. Not necessarily the hearing itself, but the
results and the evidence presented and everything, that would be a matter of public
record, correct? Because I'm vehemently opposed if this is done and the public does not
know about it.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Right, right. So recognizing that there are certain restrictions
on what we can release, on what a public body release, with respect to sober living
homes. Like, for example, an address, it's not a matter of public record. I don't have an
issue of-- necessarily an issue, if the fact of the proceedings and the outcome of a
proceeding is a matter of public record; that's just -- that's just town business.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, do we have like a parallel on that, on if anybody ever asks
for, like, say, anything that happens when they want to change zoning or the board of
adjustment when --because they have that criteria, specific criteria, so would they be able
to then say, yes, they met this, this, and this, without actually holding it in public? Okay.
Page 72 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 73 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Okay. Uh-huh. Do we need to recess, John, to gather our
thoughts for a second?
Mayor, is that all right if we recess?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. We'll do that, and then this way we can wrap it up and actually
finish with it tonight. Thank you.
(Recess)
MAYOR DICKEY: I think we're ready to get rolling again. Before Aaron tells us what
he came up with, does Council have any further discussion? Yes, Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: I just want to say that I know Planning and Zoning had
looked for a half a mile distance between the two homes, and while I'm encouraged by
that, and actually wanted to side with that, in an attempt to get this put to bed, and reach a
unanimous decision by this Council, I'm willing to sacrifice that part of it, and go with
the 1,320, so.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Vice Mayor. We appreciate that. I think there is a lot
of give and take going on here, and we certainly appreciate that from everybody, and
your understanding. So how do we want to proceed?
ARNSON: So Mayor, the recommendation would be, if I can tell you what sections
we're sort of planning to remove, based on the discussion, and what they relate to, and
then what minor language we're adding, based on the discussion, and then any
Councilmember who wishes to do so can simply say so moved. So you don't have to
repeat everything. Does that work? Okay. All right. And by the way, so this is moving
to adopt Ordinance Number 22-01, as proposed in the Staff Report, with the following
modifications: In Section 5.13(A)(1), change 2,640 feet to 1,320 feet. In Section B(2),
remove the last sentence after-- or remove the provision regarding inspections.
Subsection B(5), remove Subsection B(5) regarding commercial general liability. And
the companion change to that would be in Subsection C(5)(B), to remove that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman, you said C?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Uh-huh, C(5)(B). It's on page -- it's under the registration
section. I said B, sorry. B, B, B. B, the insurance policy required by B(5), because there
is no insurance policy required by B(5) anymore.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Sorry? Oh, I'm sorry. Yes, the changes suggested by
Page 73 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 74 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Councilwoman McMahon. Yes. Thank you. Subsection D, in the registration section--
no, Subsection D would be a new section that we discussed regarding the transfer of
ownership licenses. It will read any community residence that is in operation as of the
adoption of this section shall be considered a legal, nonconforming use consistent with
Section 4.01(b) of the zoning ordinance. Any new community residence or residence that
is in operation but that transfers ownership shall be subject to the provisions of this
section.
MAYOR DICKEY: So it's citing existing ordinance?
ATTORNEYARNSON: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Perfect.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: New Subsection E will be just incorporating the waiver
language as proposed previously to P&Z. The only change to that will be to the last
section that says the reasonable accommodation committee shall be composed of the
town Development Services director, the chair of the Board of Adjustment, or his or her
designee, and the chair of the Planning & Zoning Commission, or his or her designee. I
want to make sure I didn't miss anything, if you'll give me a second. Oh, the occupancy
limits will remain as written because that's as proposed. And then I believe there was,
not as a part of the ordinance, but some direction to staff to pursue as a legislative priority
or at a State level, some additional tools for either the state or municipalities to use to
pursue insurance requirements, etc. And I think we remember that discussion. Is that a --
so that's my statement of what the proposed motion would be based on the discussion that
we had.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Aaron, could you include taking out the violation
and penalty section, number 2(A), required insurance? That's in there? Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think he did. I think it was all in there.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Oh.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: It's on page 4 -- it's on page 8.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: That's actually an additional section, then.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, it's in two places.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Okay. We'll make that change administratively. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Any other discussion? Yes, David.
Page 74 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 75 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I had a good sidebar on
recess with State Representative Cavanaugh, who had a very good idea about us possibly
approaching the State and entering into an agreement with them as a third party, that we
would have their permission to possibly enter into an agreement that we would inspect
the facilities on their behalf. So I think that that's definitely something that I would like
to see Aaron follow up on with State Rep Cavanaugh on that. And you already stated the
insurance thing. I, too, along with Vice Mayor Friedel, would like to have seen the
distance to be a little greater than the 1,320, as proposed. I'm for the 1,850. But you
know, everybody doesn't always get what they want. So I stuck firm for the fact that the
six and the eight, which I believe is a little bit more important than the actual distance.
I'm okay with the 1,320, but I'm happy that after having the conversation with the State
rep, that I think there's some remedies that we can follow down the road that would help
us. So as long as we're in collaboration with him and everything, I think it benefits the
Town and the residents.
MAYOR DICKEY: And I'm really glad to hear you say that, too, because one of the
things that we did forget to mention was the 1,487. And so if we had taken action that
any legislator objected to, you know, regardless of what the motivation was, they could
also put this all back on State-shared revenue and things like that. So we try to comply
with as much as we can, and still do the things that the communities would like us to do,
and what we want to do, too. But that was just another risk that's there with pretty much
anything we do. So to know that you're talking to John like that is great.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: And just to follow up, I cannot put into words how
grateful I am for all the residents. I mean, you guys put in hundreds of hours in
researching this, sending us emails, sending us case law. Hats off to the residents. I
know it gets tiresome that you guys constantly have to fight with us. I didn't need Mr.
Meyers to bring up Daybreak or permanent primary property tax or all of the other things
that you guys have fought us on. And I just really appreciate the residents. I appreciate
town staff for all the work. John Leslie (ph.), I know I mess with him a lot but he did put
his heart and soul into this. Jane Bell herself said that she appreciated what he had did
(sic). And we put a lot of thought into this. So I know everybody's not going to be
happy. I'm expecting that. But I think it's the best of what we could accomplish this
Page 75 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 76 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
evening. So thank you very much to the residents and the Town staff, and to you, Aaron,
and thanks.
MAYOR DICKEY: I appreciate that, David. A lot. And since we did bring up
Daybreak, and those things were in the past, other councils, we all had different opinions
on everything, so there's nothing aligning here. We're just doing the best we can to
navigate this. Would somebody like to make a motion?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: So move to adopt Ordinance 22-01, including the
amendments as discussed with the council this evening.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Nay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I think you got that, Liz. Okay. All right. Thank you
very much, everyone. We'll move on to our next item, which is Maricopa County
Animal Care and Control.
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor and Council, due to the late hour, we'll be very brief on
our remarks, but Community Services Director Rachael Goodwin will give a brief report
on this item before you.
GOODWIN: Yes, brief being the key word here. So as many of you know, we have an
existing agreement with Maricopa County Animal Control to enforce and implement our
needs in regards to animal care, whether that's stray dogs, whether that's assistance with
officer needs in terms of MCSO, sick animals, stray animals, all of those types of things.
So they are our provider. This is a quick look at what they provide for us. So this is just
a quick, bulleted list of all of the different things that they do for us. They also are our
shelter services, so when they have a stray dog or a dog submitted or a dog turned in and
surrendered, they also serve as our shelter facility. The contract amount is just shy of
$32,000. The previous contract was $30,318. This is a new formula that they've
implemented, which is why we need to redo our IGA with them. I know there was some
questions about what their enforcement has been over the last year or so. These stats are
from our January 1st through March 31st quarterly bill. This gives you just an idea of the
different things that they've assisted with here in Fountain Hills.
Page 76 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 77 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Do they do anything with wild animals?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: They do not. They are not the resource for that. We either
work with Game and Fish or other resources for wild animals.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And I'm seeing the leash law thing, and just to say it out
loud, you know, we have leash laws in town, and these are the folks that enforce it.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Yes, sir?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll make it quick, I know
everybody wants to go. Rachael, how often are they here? Because January to March,
I'm sorry, that activity isn't blowing me away.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Um-hum. So again, everything from trips out that we -- so we
have them on an as-needed, called basis. So they only come when there is an issue that
they are called out for. Most of that is what you're seeing here. We also have what we
call -- ten scheduled sweeps that we schedule with them throughout the season. And
that's when they come out and actively patrol in our parks for roughly six hours each
sweep. So we have ten of those throughout the year, throughout the calendar year.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay. Would you keep the Council informed of their
activity?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Like I said, I was -- I have been preaching about
wanting to know what code enforcement does. We've put a lot of money into code
enforcement. Now we're putting $30,000 into this. I want the residents to know that the
money that we're spending of their tax dollars is beneficial.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Grady?
MANAGER MILLER: I just wanted to just chime in. For many years, what you see
before you was mostly just the shelter services. And then the council wanted us to step
up the enforcement. And so the enforcement added additional costs. So -- but the base
contract that we have is mostly for the shelter, and just the routine services that they
come out. So it's the additional -- was it two years ago? Three years ago? --that we
Page 77 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 78 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
started stepping up with the additional sweeps.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct, and then--
MANAGER MILLER: Because of complaints we had from residents.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Right. And they were unable to do those during COVID.
They didn't have the resources and the means to do so. And then this past year, this past
fiscal year, we stepped those up more actively again during our high seasons. They were,
other than us just giving them some direction of which parks to, you know -- hit this park
and this park, take a look over here, this is where we're getting the most complaints from
our residents -- there's not a lot of activity. Originally they took a stance of trying to
educate, and say hey, this is a warning, you need to make sure that you have your dogs on
a leash. At the first of the year, we kind of said hey, we've had enough of the warning
situation, we need to go ahead and start enforcement. So that's what you're seeing here.
You can kind of see that they had 29 leash law violations out at our parks on these. So
that was through that quarter. And that they've had ten fines paid and seven currently
outstanding.
MANAGER MILLER: And if I could just touch upon Councilmember Spelich's
comment about the -- having more transparency on reports. I did meet with the
Development Services director today, and he did show me a report that we're going to
start sharing with the Council, showing activities for code enforcement. So I think this is
a good suggestion, and we should probably do maybe a semiannual report on the animal
control activity.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Great.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So the $31,000 includes all the shelters stuff. Okay,
thanks. Any speaker cards? Like to make a motion?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: I'm just curious how that breaks down by park.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I don't have it by park. I could probably reach out to get that
from them. Oh, yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Could I get a motion?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Move to adopt resolution 2022-11.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor,please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?
Page 78 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 79 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
Thank you very much. Our next item is about Maricopa County again, flood control.
MANAGER MILLER: So I'll have Justin DIRECTOR WELDY, our Public Works
director, give the presentation on this.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Thank you. Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. We come before
you tonight to ask for your consideration in approving an amendment to an IGA to move
it out further. Brief story, this is directly related to the storm events in Golden Eagle Park
in the impoundment area in 2018 and '19. A grant was received from Maricopa County
Flood Control. Obviously we're not at the point where we can begin to spend the
majority of their money. We're hoping to be there early next fiscal year. With that said,
we need to amend this so we can continue to bill them for the services that are rendered
related to the project. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any questions? No? Speaker regards? Motion, page 218?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Move to adopt Resolution 2022-017.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you all. In favor, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed?
Thank you. Thank you, Justin.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: We skipped the next one because we put that off. And then the
legislature-- Sharron, did you have anything to say about that? No? You were on the
call.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I was on the call.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Well, we have issues.
MAYOR DICKEY: I know. Well,just one I want to mention because it's a new one,
and the ADOT omnibus bill is being held up due to somebody, I'm not sure who, but they
want to make it so that towns can't regulate truck traffic. So basically city-- or the Town,
City of Litchfield Park -- they just implemented, it was supposed to go into effect two
days ago, where they have an area of town where the big trucks can't go through. They
now are being opposed with that, the Arizona Trucking Association, and also truckers.
So it does -- cities would have to have a diagram that indicates that the truck could not
use those roads safely. So I don't think it can just be about weight or you don't want a big
concrete truck going in certain areas.
Page 79 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 80 of 80
MAY 3, 2022 REGULAR TOWN COUNCIL MEETING
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, yeah. So anyway, this is kind of one of the new things, and
the City of Avondale provides police protection for Litchfield Park, and they were
supposed to start doing that yesterday but it's all on hold. And there's a bunch of other
things that aren't good. All right.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Motion to adjourn.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
[LAUGHTER]
MAYOR DICKEY: All those in favor.
ALL: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Good night.
Page 80 of 80