HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022.0322.TCWS.Minutes TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE CIP WORKSHOP
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
MARCH 22, 2022
1. CALL TO ORDER— Mayor Dickey
Mayor Dickey called the CIP Workshop of the Fountain Hills Town Council held March 22,
2022, at 5:30 p.m.
2. ROLL CALL— Mayor Dickey
Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey; Councilmember Mike Scharnow; Councilmember David
Spelich; Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Alan Magazine
Staff Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson (telephonically);
Present: Town Clerk Elizabeth A. Klein
3. FY23 Capital Project Fund Preview
4. Council review and direction on the FY 2022-23 Proposed Capital Improvement Projects.
5. Review and Discussion of Community Services Proposed FY2023 Capital Improvement
Projects.
6. ADJOURNMENT
MOVED BY Councilmember David Spelich, SECONDED BY Councilmember Alan
Magazine to adjourn.
Vote: 7 - 0 Passed - Unanimously
The CIP Workshop of the Fountain Hills Town Council held March 22, 2022, adjourned at
7:59 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
bi'cLa____
Ginny ickey, ayor
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
Elizabeth ein, Town Cler
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 1 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
Post-Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
March 22, 2022 Town Council Workshop on CIP
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
* * * * *
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
* * * * *
Page 1 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 2 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome to our study session on our
capital improvements. Everybody is feisty, huh? Roll call, please.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Vice Mayor Friedel?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Present.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember McMahon?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Scharnow?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Present.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Magazine?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Spelich?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Present.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Grzybowski?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Grady, you'll take it?
TOWN MANAGER MILLER: Yes. Thank you, Mayor.
Mayor and Council, you recall last month at the Council retreat, we actually gave you a
preview of the Capital Improvement Program and the projects that we're in. We also
gave you an update on the current year's projects. I'm going to go ahead and call on our
finance director, David DIRECTOR POCK, who will be giving you basically an
overview of the Capital Project fund. And we are going to go a little bit out of order. He
was probably going to do that and tell you, but we're going to actually-- right after him,
we'll have Rachael do the presentation of the projects that are in the Community Services
Department, and then that will be followed by Public Works Director Justin Weldy.
With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Pock.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right.
MANAGER MILLER: Oh, and I'm sorry. One other thing. So you're probably
wondering what these artists' illustrations are. So the Mayor had asked, when we look at
Page 2 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 3 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
some of the projects, that we take into consideration the Swaback Downtown Vision
Plan, which was -- Council adopted in 2009. And as you look at some of the projects,
you can see that the Downtown Vision Plan, particularly for the overlook and the
roundabout, are actually in these illustrations before you. So these are things that were
part of a plan that the Council had adopted back in 2009/2010.
With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Pock.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. Good evening, Mayor. Good evening, Council. I'm just
here for a few minutes just to give you a couple, I guess, points to consider as we go
through the rest of the presentations tonight.
[CROSS-TALK]
[LAUGHTER]
DIRECTOR POCK: All right.
[LAUGHTER]
DIRECTOR POCK: I'd hate for you guys to miss any of my very informative flights.
All right. So to start off with, I thought it would be a good idea just to kind of go through
the process and the calculation that we used to come up with the General Fund transfer to
Capital Projects Fund based on our reserves from the prior year, or our unassigned
balance from the prior year. So at the end of last fiscal year, we had an unassigned fund
balance -- audited fund balance -- of$11 million, as, according to our policy, we take 20
percent of the average five-year revenues -- previous five years -- and keep those in the
General Fund unassigned fund balance, basically for operating -- continuing in
operations. So that, for last year, was $3.5 million.
And then, also, as part of the budget process last year, Council directed a total of$4
million to be transferred into other funds from the General Fund. So we take that out.
That $4 million included $2 million to the Streets Fund for pavement maintenance, $1.5
million to the Facilities Reserve Fund, with $1 million being segregated for the Fountain
Project, and then the remaining $500,000.00 going to the Environmental Fund. So after
all that's said and done, we had $3.5 million left over, and that's what got transferred to
the Capital Projects Fund for fiscal year'22.
Is there any questions as far as that goes? All right.
So then, some of the other assumptions, as with any of my budget presentations, I start
Page 3 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 4 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
with, all these numbers can change. A lot of things can happen in the next three months
or so, but I'm estimating that we're going to end the fiscal year with about 4.4 ending
balance -- $4.4 million in that fund. Then, looking back over the last five years at what
our transfers have been and with what they were last year and since we're kind of in that
same situation with CARES and ARPA funding and that kind of thing, I believe that a
conservative estimate is going to be about $3 million to be transferred to the General
Fund -- from the General Fund to the Capital Projects Fund, giving us about $7.4 million
in fund balance for projects in fiscal '23.
So with that, tonight's presentations with Community Services and Public Works, their
suggested or recommended projects totaling $7.383 million, leaves us with a whopping
balance at $16,000.00 as far as Fund balance goes. As you know, there's projects that
either get delayed, don't get finished during a year, or something like that, so I'd be really
surprised if we actually made it down to $16,000.00. But we have to have the budget
authority to be able to do what we want to do, and that's why we're here tonight.
MANAGER MILLER: And David, if I may, our conservative estimates -- your
conservative projections typically are overshadowed by a higher-than-expected number.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: So we are conservative, but we typically have typically a higher
surplus that comes in. Now, we're just trying to be conservative. So, you know, what
he's saying is it's likely that with these project costs and what we get in the transfer in,
you know, it'd be a difference of that.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: But it could be that we have, like what we've seen historically,
we've actually have had a larger balance that gets transferred in.
DIRECTOR POCK: And that is it for me. Any questions? No. All right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, thought you were through.
DIRECTOR POCK: I'm saving the long ones for next month.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: What was -- what was the balance of the -- if it's
$16,000.00 this year, what was it last year? Do we know?
DIRECTOR POCK: Last year's Capital Fund balance? So if you look-- actually, I don't
Page 4 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 5 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
have fiscal --we transferred in $3.5 million. I'm guessing, there had to be about that in
Fund balance and Capital Projects, I believe. That's probably about half, because I think
we were right around $7 million for this year when we started off.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I'm asking -- I'm asking about the net $16,000.00.
DIRECTOR POCK: That's fiscal year'23.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Right.
DIRECTOR POCK: If we do have the $7.4 available for fiscal year'23 to start with,
that's what would be left if all of the projects were completed that are recommended for
next year.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And I think we're being told that they won't be. Is
that correct?
MANAGER MILLER: I think what you're going to hear is that we have a number of
projects that we're either undertaking this fiscal year or were not able to be completed this
fiscal year. And that money will roll over into that Capital Fund for next year. So the
balance -- I mean, we are going to be working with staff to get that fine-tuned as to what
that number should be, right?
DIRECTOR POCK: Right. Yeah, so as far as the budgeting goes, we start with
revenues, or a Fund balance in this case, and then basically work backwards. We work
up to that number as far as budget. Assuming -- this would be worst case scenario is if
that balance was available, all of the projects are completed next year, and we didn't take
in any money next year. This doesn't take into account the revenues that we'll be
collecting next year as well, so. Does that help?
MAYOR DICKEY: Mike?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: So is this slide then saying that Rachael can't find
another project for$16,600 or?
[LAUGHTER]
DIRECTOR POCK: Maybe a plaque for the umbrella or something. I don't know.
MANAGER MILLER: We'll be honest. What is going on, and you'll see -- didn't we
have a slide that showed -- we'll see it when we get into their presentations.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: So you'll start seeing a slide for both Rachael's area and Justin's
Page 5 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 6 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
area that has two columns. The one says recommended, and then the other says -- for
next fiscal year, and the other one says the year after. We were about $1.3, $1.4 million
over on the requests versus what was available for funding. That's why it gets down to
$16,000.00, because we were -- with the projects that we recommended for the following
year-- not next year, but the following year; that's why it's the $16,000.00. But I wanted
to present to you tonight a balanced Capital Improvement Program, so I didn't want to
have it be over and then put you in a position of you having to cut or figure out where
you're going to cut.
By the way, as you're going through this, as always is the case, the Mayor and Council
always have the ability to provide us direction on if you disagree with what my
prioritization is or the staffs; you can certainly either eliminate these projects
individually, or if you want to push them into outer years or make any other
modifications, that is your opportunity to give us direction tonight on that. So that's
something to keep in mind.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: So is this -- are they in order of priority or are
they-- they're just set up just randomly?
MANAGER MILLER: The list was more random, and so --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: -- we kept the list the way it was. And then, when we were trying
to balance, we ended up looking at where I thought the priority of the Council and if they
had impact or if they were larger impact, try to do those next fiscal year and those that
could be put off for a year, we did that.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Thank you.
MANAGER MILLER: But there's no order.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: I'm just wondering if any county, state, or federal grants or
subsidies affect these numbers in any way, so that we might have more at the end versus
less?
DIRECTOR POCK: They certainly could. We don't have any, as far as that I know of,
that are identified and applied for and received. But definitely, along the way, if we do
Page 6 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 7 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
get a grant, it would affect our contribution -- the town's contribution.
MANAGER MILLER: In fact, what David does, he has a contingency for the capital,
but we also have contingency on our regular operating budget. And so if, for instance,
the infrastructure bill that Congress passed, we're going to definitely go after
opportunities there. And there may be some of these projects that we have, or there
might be -- for instance, we've been setting aside money for the fountain in the lake, there
may be some monies there that we go after. Or as an example, the Shea widening, we
may go after that, so that maybe our portion that we would have to pay for for our match,
by going after the federal money, we don't have a match then. And then that can drop out
of the Prop 400 reauthorization. And then other-- I think a lot of what you're going to
see is regional transportation projects may end up getting shuffled around a little bit with
Maricopa Association of Government with the reauthorization of 400 by going after some
of this federal money. So because the nice thing is, a lot of the federal money -- we're
still learning about the infrastructure bill, but we are planning on bringing to you in April
at the budget workshop -- on April 12th, more information about that infrastructure bill
and what we might be able to apply for and how the eligibility for the projects will work.
So we'll come back with an update to you next month.
MAYOR DICKEY: And just to be clear, if we get grant money, that doesn't go against
our budget limit, right? Like, so if we say we're going to pay-- we're going to use $7.4
million on projects, but we get some grant money, we don't get, like, penalized or
whatever for that, right?
DIRECTOR POCK: As far as the expenditure limitation, I do get to deduct grant money,
and then as far as budget, we do have contingency in the grants fund as well -- special
revenue fund, so.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: It would just allow us to do more, then?
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: The only --just for clarification, though, you still have-- like
when you adopt your final budget -- or I should say your tentative budget, your
preliminary budget-- that is setting your ceiling, though. But we always build in a
contingency just in the event that we do get the grants. So good point that you brought
up, Mayor.
Page 7 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 8 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
DIRECTOR POCK: Absolutely. And then, any direction from Council tonight, like
Grady said, will be included in the proposed budget that you'll see on April 12th. All
right?
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Rachael -- Rachael's up.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Here comes the big spender.
[LAUGHTER]
MAYOR DICKEY: Hey, she went down like $2 million here.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Exactly.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I'm just the opening act tonight. So Mayor and Council, thank
you. Update,just as you know, we were just talking about grants, and I would like to
note that, you know, staff is always looking for grant opportunities. We aren't always
aware of them, or they do come up sometimes, you know, without a lot of notice. So we
have made it a point to try to work within our budgets to capitalize on them when and
how they-- when they come available. So we'll continue to do that to leverage those
funds as far as we can. Thankfully, we've been successful with that in the past, and
hopefully we can continue that trend.
All right. First off, we are going to review, kind of, everything that we talked about at
our retreat about a month ago. I do have some additional slides and some additional
information based on some of the questions that came up, but feel free to stop and ask if
you need anything or have additional questions.
So first off is a review of where we're at right now on this year's projects. We're about
three-quarters of the way through the year. We have a lot of things coming down to the
finish line. Right now, starting at the top, we have our surveillance cameras, specifically
for Golden Eagle Park. Those are on order; we are waiting for them. Not to any big
surprise, a lot of things have been delayed, whether it's for parts and manufacturing or
imports or things like that. The cameras are on order; we are just waiting on the parts.
Four Peaks Park improvements is in progress. Kevin and his team over there have added
gaming tables and corn hole. We've added some new shade structures over there,
replacing some of the torn ones that were there and repurposing what was already
existing. And we are also in the process of adding shade structures. We're in the process
Page 8 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 9 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
of getting some cost estimates now to add one to two new ramadas over there. So all of
that is in progress.
The skate park lights and mini-pitch are officially done. That was a very exciting project
for us, speaking of grants and donations and partnerships.
The Fountain Park splash pad is also in progress. Unfortunately, we did have some
delays on that. Thankfully, we did put our order in as soon as fiscally available, which is
great. Unfortunately, we are a little behind, and we are looking at reopening probably no
later than Memorial Day. We're hopeful that we can get a little bit ahead of that, but
Memorial Day is our goal right now.
The Sunridge Park, again, is in process. As everybody knows, that's been kind of a
highly talked about park and what the process is there. Essentially, where we're at right
now is we are working with a landscape design company to get a couple of renderings
done so that we can identify where the priorities are and what the future park may look
like and help our community understand that.
Yes, sir?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: We discussed, as I recall, doing another survey.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: What's the status of that?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We'd like to include the renderings with the survey. A lot of
the feedback we had was, I don't know if I want a park there or not. What would it look
like? We're trying to make sure that folks have a better understanding. So once we have
those renderings, we'll be doing that secondary survey.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Will it be multiple renderings showing options or
how to -- whether or not to develop, how to develop, and so on?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We will decide ways to --probably on budget on what we can
do. I'd like to ideally do -- I'd like to do at least two renderings of options, and then we
can always scale back or do a phased approach. But we're working with a designer right
now to get an idea of budget.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: If I could drill down just a little bit?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Urn-hum.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: One of the discussions was having just some pads
Page 9 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 10 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
and so on. Is that one of the renderings?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: It is?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes.
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor, if I may, too, I just want to comment on this. So what we
want to do is we want to show the two streets. We want to show Desert Canyon and
Sunridge. And we want to show those two different views of the site, both with
photography-- actual photography-- and then showing what the renderings would look
like. Because we want to demonstrate that we're trying to keep as much of the natural
look to it as possible. And I imagine we'll probably have, like, an inset or another, like a
cutsheet that shows the actual improvements to the inside so that people have a better
idea of, one, a view from the street, and then once you get to the park itself, what
amenities would be there. But we're thinking walking paths, maybe picnic bench,
ramadas, that kind of thing. But until people --to Rachael's point -- until people actually
have a good visual, it's the fear of the unknown. That's what came across in the survey
that we heard from people and comments we've heard.
So we think that that has to be part of the next questionnaire that we send out to people.
So and we will be-- the HOA recently-- I think it was yesterday, the community
manager reached out to me letting us know that they have a mailing that's going to be
coming out in the near future. If we make it, we'll try to get into their mailing. If not,
we'll try to do that as a direct mail ourself to all the people who live there. So I'm kind of
leaning towards that because I don't want to rush this. I really want to get the right team
on board and get the -- a lot of thought into what is going to be potentially designed there.
And we want to make sure we have good feedback from residents before any decision is
brought back to -- or any recommendations are brought back for Council decisions.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I'm probably stating the obvious, but if there's more
than one rendering and you have a choice between two renderings and no park, the results
could be very confusing.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That is very true, and that's -- that is one of the things we were
trying to navigate with asking the questions of what would you like to see, what versions
of this, you know -- again it's a, oh, I don't want anything, but if I would like, if anything
Page 10 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 11 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
I'd like A versus B. We certainly-- again, sometimes too many choices are too many
choices and it dilutes it. At the same time, we want to try to capture what the park could
be for the community, what the community would like to see. In fact, we've even been
talking about whether it's -- the nomenclature of a park is somewhat inaccurate in that it's
not a park in that we -- how our current parks are. We know our parks to be very active
and very lit and very amenity forward, where this is not that. So maybe it needs to have a
different title on it. And so we've certainly been looking at it from all different
perspectives.
MANAGER MILLER: And just to let you know, this isn't the end of it. I believe if,
after we do the preliminary and we get it out to people, and if people -- say the majority
are now more interested, then what we'll do is we'll also have open houses with the public
and try to just make sure that we're getting what they want here. You know, we're not
trying to do a cram down or something the staff wants. We really want to get honest
feedback from people. But right now, there's the fear of the unknown, and they think it's
going to be a very active site, and it's going to bring undesirable types of things in their
neighborhood. And that's -- we don't think that's going to happen, but we want to give
them something that they can have some comments and provide feedback on.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So the next project is Four Peaks Park parking lot. That is
scheduled -- all of the parking lots over at Four Peaks Park are scheduled to be repaved
later this spring; I believe in May is when it's been noted.
The Avenue Linear Park event receptacles are out for bid right now as part of a larger
project.
Fountain Park playground is in process. We are actually really close to the finish line. It
is really impressive, and we're looking to hopefully reopen next week. So we are on
track for that project.
And then the Desert Vista turf improvements started this fall. And as we move into
spring, next month we'll be resuming irrigating and adding -- doing the top dressing and
the next set of efforts over at the park.
So that's where we are on all of our current projects.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I have a question,please.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes?
Page 11 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 12 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Yes, thank you. You said the Four Peaks parking
lot? You have $65,000.00? That's just for the rendering?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: No, that's for the paving.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So we're working to get -- Four Peaks Park actually has four
associated parking lots.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Um-hum.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: One of them, the one that's closest to the new playground
area, is unpaved at this point in time.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We're working to get paving over there. But I believe we're
going to be doing some paving and resurfacing at all four of the parking lots in that area
between this fund and through public works, I believe.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Thank you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Is that right, Justin?
DIRECTOR WELDY: (Indiscernible).
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes. Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: Rachael, did we put out a ribbon cutting for the splash park?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We have not yet.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That has been a moving target for us. We had -- originally
were planning to do one, and actually had a date held in April. And then we got word
from Maricopa County that our surfacing wasn't approved, so we had to kind of amend
that and do some --
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: -- last minute-- we had a last-minute curveball.
MAYOR DICKEY: I thought I saw something. Thank you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We did. Once we have a better-- once we zero in just a little
bit, we will have that and we will invite the community, as well as our Council and our
Rotary partners, to be part of that.
Page 12 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 13 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Any other questions on where we are today? All right.
Otherwise, we'll start jumping into new projects.
To start us off is the Golden Eagle -- we're going park by park. So I know there was a
question about priority order. The way we started looking at this is park by park. At the
end, there is a total listing of all of the projects, and we can talk about priorities based on
staff perspective, if that's something you want to look at. But right now, these are all
presented just on a park-by-park-basis.
First up is Golden Eagle Park. The ball field shade structures -- this is a completion of an
effort that we started when we did the renovations. We're looking to add the final set of
shade canopies that were started in 2018 to finish off the fields 2 and 4 and then add
additional shade structures up on field 1, which don't have any currently. Again, this has
been a really nice amenity for all of the different events that we've hosted out there
because shade is obviously a high priority.
Golden Eagle Sports Field lighting. This one was a big topic of conversation. I have lots
of information tonight. So the biggest thing is that this number came down drastically,
which is great. That was an exciting thing. And then I said, then why did we have the
wrong number? Because that's the next obvious question. What we realized was that
originally when we were researching this project, we were looking at updating both
Golden Eagle and Four Peaks, because they both were installed around the same time.
They're both beyond their useful life. And so that number encompassed both projects.
But ultimately, staff is not supporting moving forward with Four Peaks at this time.
Golden Eagle really is the priority based on usage. It gets tenfold usage over there, so it
really needs to be the focus financially.
So when we looked at it and pulled out just the Golden Eagle portion, we are looking at a
$1.4 million project. Here you can kind of see the illustration of what we have. What we
have right now is the lights on your right --the real bright ones. What we're looking to
move to is the LED, which is the ones I highlighted on the left there. So you can kind of
see the visual difference. These are similar to what we put in over at Desert Vista, so
these are what -- this is a picture of the Desert Vista skate park. So you can kind of see
that the amenity is lit, and then the lighting drops off drastically so there's not a lot of
Page 13 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 14 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
spill.
Yes?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: What's the life expectancy of these lights?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: They have a 25-year warranty. We'll get to a little more detail
on that. I wanted everyone to get a visual, because one of the biggest complaints we do
get from Golden Eagle is, because it does have a lot of residents around it, that, you
know, the lights produce glare and they're over-- they're also not supportive of our Dark
Skies designation. And we're moving towards LED with all of our lighting in town. And
our sports field lighting really are our last, sort of, effort.
But one of the biggest questions is, well, that's great, but why do we need new lights? So
just for some reference, our current lights are original to the park, which was '98/'99, so
we're pushing 25 years on those. And they originally had a 10-year warranty. So we are
well past that window. There is currently no active warranty on anything at the -- on any
of the lightings, whether it's the fixtures, the poles, the hardware. So if something does
go down, there is no warranty currently covering it. What that means is that when we do
have outages, which we do and we've consistently had them over the last 3 years, you
know, each year over a year, we're spending more and more on that maintenance on those
lights. So right now, the offer that we have with Musco does include a 25-full-year-
warranty using the existing poles, which is really -- it doesn't seem like a big deal, but
understanding that we have dozens and dozens of poles out there that are original to the
park and they're willing to use those and warranty them is a big, big bonus. So a standard
warranty in this situation would be 10 years, so that's a really big bonus for us. Again,
we have neighborhood complaints, and we are making the effort to move to LED
throughout the town.
So then the question became, that's great, but why do we need them now? Is now the
right time? And as I mentioned, we've had several severe shortages that have caused
extensive damage to underground wiring. We had two major failures. Long and short,
that causes down time. That means we don't have lights on the fields, and it means that
they can't be used. And we've had to cancel -- at that-- when we had these two go down,
we had to cancel two weeks' worth of tournaments. Actually, I think it was a three-week
window,but we didn't have --we had one week off, which was a $5,000.00 revenue loss.
Page 14 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 15 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
That was a big deal for us trying to maintain the reputation we have as a tournament-level
facility. Not only that, but it is a safety issue. There's high concerns when we're working
with the energy and electric out there with the aging wiring and the deteriorating conduit
and insulation. As you know, we've had several different floods out there of different
calibers. They're all sort of exasperating -- exacerbating this condition. And I will say,
we have firsthand issues. When staff has gone out there to address them, we did have
several safety concerns, including energy arcs that was very concerning.
We've -- long and short of it is that we also have difficulty and expenses for the parts
because these are older technology. They're 25 years old. It's harder to source the lights.
We know right now, as of today, we know we have probably$20,000.00 worth of lights
out on the poles right now. That's just the lights that we know that are out. That's not
anything that we're unaware of at this point. So again, it's not unlike a lot of our other
aging infrastructure. Our playgrounds, our splash pad, when they reach their useful life,
waiting for them to fail is not a good plan. Getting ahead of it and starting it and having
those replacements planned is a much better fiscal way to plan, and it's a much better way
to manage the usage of the space. I'd rather be able to close the space down and say, hey,
we're doing this renovation and manage that, versus uh-oh, everything is out, I got to
cancel six weeks, or six months, or who knows how long of reservations.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Thank you. I have a question. You changed the
amount, and it's a pretty big difference.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Urn-hum.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: So given what you said and the disrepair that the
lights are in, is this a sufficient amount? I mean, are-- I guess, in general, my question is
are these -- I'm not meaning to insult anybody-- are these really good estimates that
you're not going to have to come back and revisit and re-ask and re-ask?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Very-- very fair question.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: And given all the problems? And you mentioned
they're reusing or using the poles, et cetera. So I guess my question is, for this particular
project, is this a sufficient amount of money do you think for that to happen?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes. Very fair question. And what -- the beauty of this is that
because we did have an error, it did make us go back and sort of fine-tooth comb what it
Page 15 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 16 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
is -- what do we really need, what am I really looking at. And we were able to contact
Musco and double-check. Hey, make sure that we're on the same page here so that when
we're only talking about one park, we're not talking about two parks now. And so we
were able to go back and double-check everything, and we do feel this number is
sufficient. This number does include -- again, when we did -- when we -- if the project is
approved, we're going to need to be doing sub rewiring, which is subgrade. We don't
know what we will find down there. We do have some budget built in so that we can
hopefully address any issues without coming back for more funding. Obviously, the
unknown is the unknown, but we do feel this number should get us where we need to be
for the four ball fields at Golden Eagle.
One of the other questions that came up was, you know, is it worth it? Is it -- you know,
is this a good investment? And that's what this slide kind of indicates for you. The top
bar indicates -- has three colors. It's the energy cost, so what does it cost to turn on the
lights? What are we going to pay for our energy? The maintenance costs and the
controls that we use to schedule the lights. If we leave the lights -- if we use what we
have right now over the next 25 years this is what we can expect to pay in each of those
areas. Moving to the LED over the cost of 25 years, the expected energy costs are
roughly$678,000. So the return on investment is quite steep over that 25-year warranty
window.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Rachael, I'm willing to give it more thought, but--
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: -- I think you said it's costing us about $25,000 a
year to maintain them now; is that correct?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That was last year's number. I mean, at this point, I know I
have $20,000 worth of lights out from the get-go.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Let's assume, for the sake of discussion, it's not
$25,000 a year, its $40,000 a year. According to your numbers, that would mean it
would be 35 years payout. If we paid $40,000 a year, we wouldn't get to $1.4 million for
35 years, if my math is correct. I'm still having a little trouble with it.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I don't think it's reasonable to assume that we'd only have
Page 16 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 17 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
$40,000 worth of expenses for 35 years. It's exponentially going up year over year. The
reasonable number-- considering we've been talking about this since 2016, we've known
that this is coming down the pike. And frankly, the safety concerns far outweighs, in my
mind, what the value of just the maintenance side of it is. Knowing that we've had
energy arcs on site out there after a flood.
MAYOR DICKEY: My guess is 35 years -- sorry-- they probably wouldn't exist. I
mean, you know.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah, I think there is --
MAYOR DICKEY: It wouldn't be a matter of just probably repairing, you know, in the
way you're saying,plus this energy savings is huge.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: It just seems to me that we can look at everything in
town in a worse case assumption. And I think what we're describing is a worse case
assumption. And so I'm just still troubled by it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Grady?
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. Good discussion and good point that you're bringing up.
But I do think, the one thing you have to consider when you're looking at assets --
whether it be a building, a roof, vehicles -- they have useful lives. And we are already at
the useful life of this. So I think kudos to the staff trying to plan ahead, trying to ensure
that we don't have failures worse than what we've had already. The energy savings alone
are going to be big, and they're only going to get bigger over time. I also know that the
maintenance -- you could just have a total failure -- the other thing we've been having
Rachael mentioned shortages. What I think she's talking about is electrical shorts.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Um-hum.
MANAGER MILLER: And so these are safety issues. They're also concerns where the
electrical itself would be very expensive just to go back in and get that replaced. So this
is all being wrapped up into one bigger project here. So I do think you're bringing up
good points, and maybe our math or our methodology doesn't seem like it's getting
across, but I still think in the end, we have a useful asset that has a life that is at its end.
And so yes, could we go further? Probably we could. But in the end, these types of
things with cost escalations are only going to get more expensive. So it's like, do you
want to sleep on the money in your mattress? I hate to use that. Or do you want to make
Page 17 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 18 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
use of that and try to buy in today's costs versus future value, which is going to cost
more? So good analysis, and maybe the analysis wasn't quite up to speed for your point,
because you're the one that really asked good questions last month on this. And so if we
failed to do that, I apologize, but I do think, again, when it comes down to it, we're at the
useful life right now of these units.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Can you -- in the next 25 years, do you anticipate we'll make
more money from these fields?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I would say the more we can make smart and wise upgrades
when and where appropriate -- I wouldn't necessarily want to go out and recreate the
wheel tomorrow -- but the more we can do that, yeah. It's a -- the operational costs come
down, the more we can utilize it for-- you know, again, it minimizes down time. It's a
cost savings as well as a revenue generating. So it kind of doubles down on that because
there's no down time, we have useable -- we have a useable amenity that we can trust and
rely on. We also -- again, this seems minor, but when you're out there as a user and
you-- you know, your lights are scheduled till 9 o'clock, and you're in the -- you're last
inning of the game and the lights go out, they aren't coming back on. We aren't able to
just flip the switch and turn them back on. It's a 20- to 30-minute window to turn lights
back on. It's just the older technology. We've all been in those gyms where you turn on
the lights and they buzz and it takes a while to warm up.
[LAUGHTER]
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: These don't do that. These are on and off instantly. So again,
it provides a better experience and a better overall quality.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Rachael, you missed your calling. You should have
been a prosecutor.
[LAUGHTER]
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: So when you have a better product, it attracts more clients --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: -- is what.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: 100 percent.
MAYOR DICKEY: Go ahead, Councilman.
Page 18 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 19 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: You know, I think, too -- and Grady said what I
was going to say at the end there as far as the cost escalations that always happen. I
mean, yeah, Alan, it would probably be easier to oh, let's put this off five years and save
up a little bit or whatever and then do it. But it's just going to cost more at that time, and
streets are obviously a big issue in town. And, you know, we could easily say, too, oh,
let's let them slide a couple more years because they're still going to be drivable. But I
mean, they have a useful life too, and it's just -- you know, it's just time to do it, I think
so.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Well, and you'll see -- and I'm jumping ahead just a little bit
here, but as you'll see at the end, we are recommending breaking this over two years so
that we do funding --half the funding through this upcoming fiscal and then funding the
second half through the second fiscal year. So breaking it over two windows and doing
the whole project across basically this next summer for lack of a better way. So that way,
it would give us time to plan for it, it would give us time for budget for it, order parts,
make sure we have everything, and then work with our vendors and our user groups so
that we have a strategic plan going into the summer for that close-down effort.
Any other questions I can answer?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Actually, I'm not the math genius in the room
here, so let's just get that out there. I did some quick calculations, and if you add the $1.2
million, the $1.2 million, and the $183,000 there and divide it by 25 years, you get
$105,910. If you take the $678,194 and divide that by 25 years, you get $27,127. So if
you look at it by year, it is a significant difference, assuming those numbers are as
accurate as we can get.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Again-- yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: What are you looking at?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I don't know what she said, but --
MAYOR DICKEY: It makes sense to somebody.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Boo-hoo. You had me, but you lost me. I just want to
say that I'm for the project, and I think in the not-too-distant future, there's going to be a
time when you and Kevin try to get these lights fixed and there's no parts for them. And
instead of 20 lights out, you're going to have 30 lights out. You're going to be going all
Page 19 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 20 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
over trying to find-- it's, you know, to me it's a no-brainer, but I think now's the time. I
concur with Councilman Scharnow. It's only going to go up in price and we got to do it
at some point, so why not now?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: All right. Moving to Fountain Park. As you know, we're
finishing a playground. This is the rendering of the playground. Again, hopefully it's
open next week. All things go right. The community-- we've had a lot of community
request for lighting the playground. Again, it's about usability, especially summer
evenings when after the sun goes down, and then winter, because the sun goes down so
early being able to use it dinner time and things like that. So if we'd like to do that, to
increase the usable time for the playground, we're looking at $170,000 to add lighting
under the shaded structures there. It's about a lot of lights this year.
MANAGER MILLER: Well, it looks like a bargain compared to the previous
presentation.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Exactly.
MAYOR DICKEY: How much is that per year?
[LAUGHTER]
[CROSS-TALKING]
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Also at Fountain Park, again, we're looking at -- we're looking
at the shade structure here. This one is not as high, but it is a safety priority for us, as all
things always are. The poles at the playground were installed roughly 20 years ago.
They were put in in the early 2000s. We're noticing some leaning that you can kind of
see there in that picture. We have two ways we can fix the problem. We're hoping for
the lesser way, which is roughly$12,000 to shore that up. But we won't know until we
try. Once -- and then if we aren't able to do that, we would need the difference of up to
$41,000 to correct that issue. Again, this is all about a safety issue and making sure that
we don't have any liabilities out there. Any questions on that one?
All right. Park sidewalk repair. This is a general park request, but this is focused on
Fountain Park as the primary starting point. This is a 4-year effort. Each year would be
funded at $100,000 annually for over those four years to do sidewalk repair and
replacement. So we have a lot of mileage in terms of sidewalk around our parks. Not
just Fountain Park, although Fountain Park does have a lot. We have new walking loops
Page 20 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 21 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
at Desert Vista, as well as Four Peaks and Golden Eagle. And we have damage done.
We have graffiti. We have just natural lifting and things like that from roots and other
things, so trip hazards are something we have to be aware of, and again, we're liable to
make sure that those are corrected. So we would -- the ask is to fund a sidewalk
replacement and repair program so that we can make those repairs when and as needed.
Any questions? Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: So Rachael sent everybody the link to our retreat earlier, so if all
watched then we all saw this. And I wanted to take the opportunity to mention that to the
public, too, that if it seems like we're not asking a lot of questions, it's because we really
did a lot of this during the retreat. And if you want to take a look at that video, you can
see a lot of the questions that we did have and that staff has responded.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes. Thank you. I appreciate that because some of this is
definitely a review. Yes. Our other project -- the other project that we talked quite a bit
about was the Centennial Pavilion shade structure. This is the shade structure that's
proposed for Centennial Circle, which is adjacent to our library and our Community
Center and our community garden. We've had a chance to talk to a number of our
community partners, both whether it's the Dark Skies and the Art Committee, the Library,
Museum, and of course, our Community Center users. An outdoor shaded space has
been a topic of conversation over the last couple of years because of our COVID situation
and not having a gathering place outdoors. And so Centennial Circle really came into
focus for staff as an ideal place to do that. Again, it would provide not only a place for
programming and activities, but for potential revenue rentals, such as weddings, dinners,
performances, and other things like that. I know we talked a lot about this one. Did we
have any questions on that?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: The design, I know you didn't want a pole in the
middle. I'm just going back to the last side where I assume in Fountain Park those poles
were put in straight originally and approved by us, and obviously, wind or whatever has
changed a couple of poles over there in Fountain Park. So I'm just wondering long-term
as far as what kind of warranty or guaranty we have. It just seems this is going to be a lot
more susceptible to wind damage and so forth given this design, but.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Very valid question. Actually, so there's a couple of answers
Page 21 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 22 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
to your question. The difference with the Fountain Park project is that it actually wasn't
installed correctly. We found that it was not installed correctly. And again, we did some
research to try to find if we could have, you know, them come back out, redo it, if there
was any type of recourse there. Unfortunately, because it was 20 years ago, I'm not even
sure that we were able to confirm that that company was still in business as it was then
through the same ownership. So we do have some different issues at stake here. We do
have--this would be the same company that we worked with to do the large shade
canopy installation over at Four Peaks over the playground over there. So we do have
some comfort level working with the Shade 'n Net Company. They've done a great job
and do warranty their work. The design of this one is actually different than the design of
what we've traditionally seen. You can see that it's two layers and that is designed,
actually, to let the air move better through those and put less tension. That is why the
center post isn't as necessary. It also creates a cooler situation, where the warmer air gets
trapped in between the two. I am not a thermodynamic engineer by any means, but that's
what I've been told. And that's what it's set -- it's set up to do that, and it does allow that.
One of the other pieces that is an advantage to this is you can see that it's a number of
different sails so that if we did have some sort of damage, whether it's wind or, you
know, monsoons or other type of vandalism, it's a one-panel replacement versus
replacing the entire structure. I mean, again, that was strategic to try to minimize any
type of long-term impacts.
SNIPES: Hey, Rachael?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes.
SNIPES: The other big thing is -- is all the ones at Fountain Park are cable oriented.
This one is steel frame structure, not cable. So it's got frames that go all the way up to
the center, and so the posts aren't the only thing that's holding the weight the way that
they are at Fountain Park.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Fantastic.
SNIPES: This one has a breakthrough (indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Your key supporters you mentioned, does that translate into
any dollars toward the project?
Page 22 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 23 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
[LAUGHTER]
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Good question. I think, at this time, we didn't ask for any type
of financial support. We asked for, you know, is this something that you guys could see
using? Do you see this as being problematic or do you find this to be an asset? And
everyone was very positive. My-- if the project is approved and said, hey, this is
something that Council has given the authority to move forward with, we can certainly
reach back out to see if there's any financial contributions available.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Rachael, I know we can't legally do advisory
referenda, correct?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I don't know. I'd have to ask Aaron.
MANAGER MILLER: I believe Aaron is actually on.
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNSON: Mayor. Council, that's correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you. Just wanted it on the record.
MAYOR DICKEY: Hi, Aaron.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: You're welcome.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: If we could do advisory referendum, I'm guessing
that we could get a long list of projects that would be nice to do and nice to have for the
community. To me, even though we've got support from Dark Skies, the Art Committee,
the Library, if we put a bunch of other projects in front of them, they might say yes, too.
I will give it more thought, but as of right now, I'm not on board yet.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Fair enough. And I do -- I think this is --this is one of the
projects that -- so a lot of these are about maintenance. A lot of these are about long
term -- hey, it's time to replace something, it's time to up -- this project is about what we
would like to see this campus become. Being that we have made strides to create a
gathering space here on campus, we've -- you know, we're working towards new
facilities, you know, such as the Dark Sky facility. We have the new walking path that
eventually will connect down to Verde River. Again, these are kind of anticipating
what's coming and creating the community space that will cohesively join it. Again, this
is -- this is a forward-thinking project. You're right. It is a nice to have; however, I do
believe that it would be a very well used and very nice addition to our community.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just a footnote to this, if the International Dark Sky
Page 23 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 24 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
Center is built, it's going to have some beautiful areas for gathering -- large, beautiful
areas. I don't know how long that will take, but at some point, we will have that.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Right. And they will -- unfortunately, I don't believe they'll
be for public use.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Not decided yet.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Fair enough.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: But unlikely.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Fair enough. And we did meet -- we met with a number of
board members there, too, to understand that we don't want to impact the views and how
that space will be used. And that was really one of the critical lynchpins in whether this
project had any longevity. And once we met with them and they felt like yes, this is a
good use of the space and it-- it melds well with what they see the vision being, it
worked well.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I'm curious. Who's them?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We met with both Joe and Nancy Bill, as well as Vicky
Derksen.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And not the other eight members? It's okay. It's all
right.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I can't answer that one. I put the ask out there, and we were
able to meet with those three to come and see the facility.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Just to make clear, you see this space as an
extension of the community center, which means it might be another opportunity for a
revenue generator, correct?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely. Again, the community center is very well used.
We have a lot of demand on the space there. This would hopefully allow some relief
there to be able to use it for large groups. Again, we've -- we've sort of brainstormed
what it could be. We have the Munch &Music programs; we have the different
entertainment groups. I know Kim (ph.) is chomping at the bit to use it for the Christmas
program. So we have a lot of-- of vision for what it can be used for. So yes, it would
absolutely act as an extension there.
MAYOR DICKEY: I have one question about the --the 5 C's and the memorials that are
Page 24 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 25 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
around. Are they within or without it?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: They're -- they're exterior, so they are outside of the covered
space.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Right now, nothing would need to be removed in order to
accommodate this, other than the center statue.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: And we would be working on some other-- the 5 C's are a
little sun faded. They have a little -- some changes that need to be made, but we would
still want to honor what the Centennial Circle represents. And yes, they do not need to be
moved as part of this project, unless it's part of what we want to see overall.
SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. One of my fellow councilmembers just asked me
what happened to me being a fiscal conservative. I'm -- I'm really -- I'm torn. Can we do
a single layer?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: It probably won't function. It won't have the support that it
needs to have -- not have the center post.
SPELICH: So there's no cheaper version that we can go with that would make you
happy? I mean, I know -- I know your name in town is Go Big or Go Home, but I'm
just -- I don't know. I mean, it seems really ornate and I -- I -- I'm just having a hard time
with that amount of money. I -- I got to be honest with you. Normally, I go along with
you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Um-hum. Well, and again, the way-- the way we're kind of
putting this out there is we originally had talked about, you know, multiple versions of
what the Community Center could extend and become. This seems like a better service
to our community, a better way to let users have better full access. Again, this is a vision
as to where we would like to see the town go. The $375 is a reasonable top end. It's
possible that we can come in under that.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: You never do.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I'm not going to promise anything.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: You never do.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: But I generally don't come back for more, either. This is a
Page 25 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 26 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
reasonable number for a shade structure that's 80 feet in diameter and made to cover that
circle.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Oh, boy. All right. Let me think on it.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Okay. Fair enough.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, I mean, I'm -- I'm surprisingly somewhat
torn as well. I mean, on the one hand, that space out there I think is definitely
underutilized and just kind of out there. And it looks nice, and people walk around and
look at the statutes and that kind of thing. So it would be nice to have more events out
there in extension of the Community Center, so I can totally see that side. And I know a
couple of months ago -- and you and I talked privately when you were first pitching this,
you know, I mentioned the amphitheater at Fountain Park. Like, well, maybe we should
do something over there as well. I mean, to me, you know, some Council back in the day
spent a fair amount of money to put that in amphitheater, and now that seems to be
underutilized, too. All the -- all the events and such are sliding down toward right across
from the Avenue there on the great lawn, or whatever you want to call it. So, you know,
it is kind of a crap shoot in terms of how much this will enhance that area in terms of
usage. I mean, I-- I could see how it would, but, you know, it is a lot of money. I agree
with Councilman Spelich on that. But-- so we'll just leave it at that. I probably-- if it
does come to a vote in the future, I'd be for it, but it is an unknown, I think, to some
degree.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Will it be air conditioned?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Natural shaded air conditioning. You're right. It is an unused
space, and that is why that was kind of the attractive conversation to say, how do we
make this space useable? This is town-owned property. How do we make it more -- it is
home to a lot of our art pieces. We want to encourage that in use of the space. It's just
really hot. I mean, we have benches that are there that, you know, aren't shaded. Again,
it's -- it's just an underused, and this is the vision to how -- how we can activate this space
better.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you. So what would you charge? So if you
want a wedding there or you want a whatever there, how would we figure out? Because
Page 26 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 27 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
we don't have one there now.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So what would be the charge or what would be the fee
that we would get? Have you thought about that?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We started toying with that -- what that would look like and
how and when that would -- you know, if it's connective it needs to be connected with a
Community Center rental so that -- that they have access to restrooms and other -- other
amenities. Would it -- would we have it as a stand-alone reservation so we don't need to
have staff at the Community Center? There's a couple of things we'd need to work
through to figure out how that would work. I mean, we can model it after a number of
the-- you know, what the cost of renting the amphitheater would be. We can model it
after some of our other rentals. Or again, it would be cost value. What -- you know,
what does it cost for us to set up the space, to have the space available, cleaned,
maintained, ready to go, that type of thing.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I guess if you could tell me-- if you could come back
and say, all right, you know, we put pen to paper and we think that we could get X
amount of dollars for a rental, maybe I could buy it a little bit better. But I --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We can certainly look into it.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- think that there's too much of an unknown. So if
you came back to the Council and you said, if you want to have a wedding or a
quinceaiiera, or anything, we're going to -- it's going to be $400, or whatever--
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Um-hum.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- I think then you actually have a number that you can
put with the project which then maybe -- I don't know, I think the residents would lose
their mind. I mean, they already do on other stuff we do. But I mean, this is -- this is just
a large number, and if-- and if we could just find a way that it would pay-- of course, it's
not going to pay for itself. We can't charge $10 grand for it, but I mean, if there was a
way that you could say, okay, this is what we decided. You met with your staff, and your
staff thinks that this is what a rental fee would be, maybe it would be more palatable.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I don't know.
Page 27 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 28 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Just for--just for conversation's sake, to rent the Centennial
Circle -- not Centennial Circle-- the amphitheater, which, again, is a similar size and
scope and layout, is $400 for a half day. So to give you a starting point of probably
where we would start considering it.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I'd be alright with$400. I mean that's -- I mean, it's
something--
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Um-hum.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- that offsets this.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Urn-hum.
MANAGER MILLER: To the councilmember's point, when we come back April 12th,
we'll have those numbers run for you, and we'll have -- because we'll have to actually put
together in our annual fee schedule that you have to adopt as part of the budget process --
we'll have to include that because it's the only time that we typically do through the
budget process. So good discussion, good point that you brought up. I will say that I
don't think you're going to see the return on investment, though.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Oh, no doubt.
MANAGER MILLER: But it will help with people understand that it's offset or partially
offset by what we charge for fees to use it. I think people will be a little more accepting.
MAYOR DICKEY: Just in general too, on all of these items, what do you want to see,
Grady? If you see some sort of hesitation like this, what's going to be our opportunity,
like, on the 15th or when we -- you know, when we're doing the budgets --
MANAGER MILLER: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- to you know, (indiscernible) on some of this.
MANAGER MILLER: Well, tonight and actually on April 12th-- so tonight if there's
something absolutely that you're against, we can kind of read body language, and we can
also kind of hear with the comments that a majority won't like something. And if it's very
obvious, we can just remove it from the capital that is presented to you. But I would tell
you you have the opportunity to just give us direction tonight and on April 12th. April
12th will be your absolute last opportunity because otherwise it will be in the tentative
budget for your consideration. And at the tentative budget, you still have one more
option to nick something that's in it.
Page 28 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 29 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: All right. Moving to Four Peaks, the Four Peaks playground.
Similar to what we talked about at the Fountain Park playground, it does have one
existing light there that remains from our basketball court when it was formally the
basketball court. That's metal-halide. We are suggesting moving to LED lights for-- to
light both this playground you see in front of you as well as the two-to-five-year-old
playground that's adjacent. So adding lights again to the playground to increase the
usability. Told you lot of lights this time.
Also in Four Peaks, we have the final year of the Four Peaks park improvement plan. It's
the final 100,000 to finish out landscaping, irrigation, and some other odds and ends.
We'll call it the non-exciting -- the boring elements that we have to finish up. We did a
lot of the exciting stuff on the front end with our new playgrounds and our new shade
structures and pickle ball courts and things like that. So this is the year to wrap up
everything and kind of finalize the last of the improvements.
And the final park is Desert Vista Park. So we have a number of different visions for this
park. Again, now that Four Peaks is wrapping up, our focus becomes Desert Vista. So
you have-- this slide actually covers two different expenditures. One is 65,000, which is
the second year of the turf improvement plan. When we originally brought that plan to
you, it was a two-year effort. So next year would be the second half of that effort to
continue the weed abatement and the leveling of the soccer fields. The next ask is a two-
year, $200,000 each year over two years. So similar to how we did Four Peaks, breaking
it out into two different years to begin improvements throughout Desert Vista, including
the addition of ramadas, the completion of some lighting, as well as the addition of some
fitness equipment.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Rachael, when do you and
Kevin believe-- I've been talking for two years now at least about how I believe that that
field should be utilized for soccer tournaments. I think a huge draw. I mean, you only
need to go to Mesa or Tempe and see every weekend their soccer fields are jam-packed --
with people. When do you guy foresee this, the money that we're putting in that we're
going to see a return on our investment, and we're actually going to be able to rent these
for soccer tournaments?
Page 29 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 30 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I would anticipate this fall, but I'm going to defer to Kevin.
So as you heard me say, this year we're getting ready to start doing the top dressing and
the irrigation returns probably next month. So we'll start to green up. We'll do the top
dressing and finish out the spring weed abatements. And then this fall we'll do the
secondary effort there. And it should be -- you'll see drastic improvement by this fall. I
mean, we've already seen a significant --
[CROSS TALK]
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: It's already drastically improved.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Well, let's start marketing that. If you and Kevin both
really believe that that's a firm date --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Uh-huh.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- and everything, let's start marketing that and getting
that out there, because, like I said, I'm amazed how many people play soccer. To me it's
too tiring.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: It's too much running.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: And I--
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Way too much effort. Golf is the way to go. But with
a cart, of course. But seriously, hats off to you guys. It really looks so much better.
When we started talking about that, some people were like you're crazy. No one's going
to come out there. But I really do think that your guys are headed in a great direction,
and I'd really like to see that utilized.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: We've already seen a drastic improvement --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We have.
SNIPES: -- in usage over there this year from last year, even.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Uh-huh.
SNIPES: So we're seeing that already.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah. I would say the -- it's a combined effort. That not only
is the turf already making big strides, but we've made other improvements, whether it's
Page 30 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 31 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
the lights at the skate park, whether it's the Mini Pitch. The visibility of that park has
really upticked and drawn more attention overall. So that's really encouraged that usage
too.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Oh, that reminds me. When I'd met with both of you
out there, and we talked about the quality of the park and everything, there was an issue
with people maybe having a few many cocktails or just generally trying out their new
four-wheel drives --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- ruining the turf and everything. So one of the
solutions was the rocks that we talked about along. So I would like to see something
budgeted, if you guys don't have that budgeted, but some way to protect that park against
vandalism of actually vehicles going across that. Because I think we were out there just
after someone did that, and they tore that up tremendously.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So we talked about huge boulders and stanchions or
whatever, so I'd really like to see you guys come up with a solution, because if we're
going to dump this much money into it only to have somebody on a Saturday or Sunday
think that's a great place to four-wheel, I think we should guard against that.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely. You read our mind because we were actually
talking about that today as we get ready to resume irrigating and green the park up. The
damages, it's much more susceptible at that point. So agreed. Any questions about the
Desert Vista improvements that we're looking at?
The last part of the Desert Vista is the skate park. And I know we talked about this at
length. Essentially, we'd like to look at-- the skate park needs to be re-done. You can
kind of see it's done-- it's had a great, useful life, but it's starting to show its wear and
tear. We have a number of cracks. We have a number of concrete repairs that are pretty
extensive. You can kind of see some of the painting and some of the repairs, but it's
definitely well-used, and it's ready for some maintenance. But you can also see it was
originally intended to be a phased skate park. This is Phase 1, but we never finished
Phase 2. We'd like to use develop fees to begin that secondary phase and add some
remodel to begin to meet the standards of today and to increase the usability for multiple
Page 31 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 32 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
devices. So not just a skate park, but available for scooters, bikes, in-line, and things like
that. So we would look to add a couple of new amenities to the park as part of that
expansion.
MANAGER MILLER: And I just want to clarify. So under the state law, develop fees
can't be used for repairs. It can only be used for expansion or new infrastructure. So
that's what we really are doing. The balance would be paid. The $125,000 we'd paying
for the repairs that would come out of the capital fund?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct. So the repairs are the 400, and then the development
fees would pay for the expansion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Grady, that's probably -- we were talking early about a little bit of a
difference between the amount coming out of the CIP compared to the total for your
project-- for all of our projects. And I think it was the development fees because it was
275 exactly, so thanks. Yes.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: The last project in Desert Vista is the dog park. Again, I
know a number of you are familiar with this. The dog park essentially-- the entire park
is made to drain to this kind of lower green, shaded area. So when we have rain or other
things up on-- even on the upper fields, they flow down through and out through this
area. Over time it has just been -- it needs to be re-graded in order for the water to not
become stagnant and muddy and messy, but to actually drain appropriately.
So we have two ways of approaching this. One would be to regrade the area and then
resod. The other would be to regrade the area and then allow the grass to naturally
resume. We are proposing the second, to have the regrading and the natural grass
recover, resurface. We would time this again around this time of year next year so that
the grass when it's naturally pushing -- when all of the grass is returning and greening up,
it would naturally be part of that process. If we were to sod, you're looking at probably
twice this number. Any questions on that project? Great. That's the last one.
So what does it look like altogether? These are all of the --this is the list of all the
projects we just covered. You'll note that the one that has the star is that skate park
remodel and expansion. So the 675 is the total. 275 of that would come from our
development fees. The 400 would come from the CIP fund. So that's why it's asterisk
there. You'll also note that I mentioned the Golden Eagle sports field lighting is broken
Page 32 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 33 of 64
MARCH 22,2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
4111110
over two years, so the 1.4 is funded over two-year effort.
MAYOR DICKEY: You had a Desert Vista one that was 200,000 that was over two
years. Let's see. Where was that? Have to go back a couple.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So it's labeled as Desert Vista Improvement Projects, and it's
200 plus the 65 for the turf improvements. So it's --
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Then the other 200 will be next year?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So you'll see it as 265 this year, and then it would be listed as
200 next year, exactly. Yes. Thanks for that clarification. Any questions? All right.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. So next up is Justin DIRECTOR WELDY, Public Works
director. We'll be going over his projects, his proposed projects.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: There you go.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Could I ask --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Before we even start -- Justin, I know you'll be
prepared for this -- during the work study, we questioned the engineering firm. Supposed
to be looking at all these drainage projects. We haven't heard from them in three years.
What's the status of that?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, help me understand which one
of those you are referencing.
MANAGER MILLER: He's referencing JE Fuller. We talked about that at the retreat
quite extensively.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Exactly. We will discuss that. We can certainly discuss it now
or as part of the slide as we move forward. The slides that we put together are
alphabetically placed in order here, starting obviously with drainage. When we work
with the town manager, the residents, Council members, other staff members, we look
towards the past for the lessons learned and the improvements that have been made, and
also dig a little bit further in the past to determine whether or not some of these projects
Page 33 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 34 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
have been brought forward in the past, but the funding simply was not reasonable or not
available at that time.
The summary of projects that we bring together we've placed as priorities for your
review. Each of them that we move forward with that you select, or defer or move out or
decline, we will certainly respect that and be back to you at the next meeting with a
refined set. With that said, we did not put together in Public Works the projects for this
year because there have been no substantial changes from the retreat with one exception.
The driveway off of El Lago that services the parking lot for the community garden and
the library was sealed this week, and we sent that out, and we have a bid. And we will be
moving forward on that project, which is not just a driveway but also some realignment
of the sidewalk there on El Lago.
MAYOR DICKEY: We will do that this year?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Yes, ma'am.
MAYOR DICKEY: Great. Thanks.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome. This first project up is miscellaneous drainage.
This funding is used for projects that are not on the horizon for-- or associated with other
capital projects unless there's a direct tie or a conflict. A good example, we use the
funding from this this year to divert water away from the front door of the community
center. We currently have a couple of small projects that we would like to look at next
year to utilize this funding for as we move forward. And if it's selected to move forward,
you will likely see some additional information on that when we do so.
This is a multi-year project. This was initiated originally because we had some
catastrophic failures in the old pipe on phase 1. There is a substantial change to this from
the retreat. Since that time, we did receive an engineer's estimate. And this is the
estimate based on today's market values, so there's an increase of about $150,000 on this
project. This project here is to extend that drainage pipe through the natural drainage
area that oftentimes has flowing water in it and creates issues with odors and insects.
This will hopefully minimize or eliminate that. It will also push this nuisance water from
natural springs closer to our pump that is in this area.
That pump currently moves 30 to 60,000 gallons of spring water a day back into Fountain
Park. With this project and the updating of that pump, we anticipate that that will
Page 34 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 35 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
increase to 100,000 gallons a day in spring water into Fountain Lake, helping with the
water quality in that area.
This currently in this fiscal year is labeled as a design concept report. Up in the area of
Brantley, we had a storm even a couple of years ago that resulted in an incredible amount
of sediment coming down the street. And as a result of that sediment filling the street, we
had outflow of water on the properties. The design concept report that is currently under
review right now and being put together by an engineering firm will give us the best case
scenario for what we need to do to build a retention base of-- or detention basin on the
hill side or possibly in the right of way along that area.
This is an ongoing multi-year project. This was put together after we discovered the
condition of some of the pre-incorporation pipes. We have made an incredible amount of
progress in regards to clearing, cleaning, cataloguing, and photographing the pipes. We
currently have a firm looking at the ones that we have deemed needing service or repairs
sooner rather than later. This multi-year is not only for cleaning and inspecting, but also
treatment because we believe that several of these with the right treatment can be saved
or their life extended substantially.
This project right here is relatively new. It sponsored the actual area drainage master
study by the Maricopa County flood control district. What they're doing is preparing a
2D model of all of the flow within the town limits. We are proactively asking for
consideration for design funding should they finish that 2D modeling next year and select
or at least identify some projects. We would like to have the authority to move forward
on the design for the most critical ones. Again, the area drainage master study is being
for--paid for by the Maricopa County flood control district. They are also managing it.
We are just hoping that by asking for your permission to spend some money next year,
we can proactively be ready for design on some of the critical projects.
MANAGER MILLER: We've made some -- or we've had discussions with the Council
on really, in my opinion, the number one critical investment we need to make in the
future of the town is with our washes and our drainage. And we've seen some significant
unprecedented storms cause erosion that's very close to homes. And so this would be
taking the county study, which is really a 10,000-foot-level evaluation of drainage and/or
dams in town, and it would be forming the basis of getting into more specific things that
Page 3., a .
5of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 36 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
we need to be doing to protect our town.
And so the good news here is I do believe that there are some partnerships through flood
control district and also going after grant monies and things like that. But in order to do
that, you actually have to have a drainage area master plan. So the county has to get
theirs done first, and then once they have that done, that will help form the basis of what
we'll have for our town and come up with specific projects that will come out of our
master plan.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Grady. We spoke before about how some of that
infrastructure money that is coming, some of it is going to be going to the state, the bulk
of it, and then there'll be competitive good process. But one of the messages that they
gave us was that to have partners was going to be really helpful. So like you were just
mentioning-- and I don't even know if it can be a regional thing, but definitely with the
county and also just like with the parks master plan and everything else, having a plan
there really helps get the grants too. So we appreciate that.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Rachael and I both have made comments on this. Originally, this
started as a park project. And so it was a P for parks. However, over the years, we've
discovered that we need additional security cameras, not only at the parks but at the
facilities. So it's moving into a facilities project, and we will continue to install cameras.
As Rachael noted earlier, and when she was discussing this, they are currently working
on the cameras for Golden Eagle Park. Believe it or not, there is a very small part that is
technical and difficult for me to pronounce that they are waiting to actually be
manufactured that is a critical component of our cameras.
It should note-- excuse me, we do have an estimate for town hall improvements and also
new cameras to be installed at the Adero Canyon, and also Desert Vista Park, and lastly,
one of the town's facilities that few people realize we have, which is the street
department. We have three buildings down there, a vehicle maintenance shop, a sign
shop, and an office building that we believe also need security cameras.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Justin, I don't want to get into technical details
because I wouldn't understand it anyway, but are these -- do these record? Are they
hardwired? Or how do they work?
DIRECTOR WELDY: The cameras themselves for the majority are hardwired back to a
Page 36 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 37 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
head-in gear, and that head-in gear records activities. Some of them are wireless because
of the distance between the camera location and the head-in gear, but that also stores
image.
MANAGER MILLER: So it's not recording on tape or DVDS or anything. It's actually
either Flash type media, or it's recording on, like, a hard disc, basically, or a solid state
device.
DIRECTOR WELDY: It keeps the recordings for some period of time.
MANAGER MILLER: And then once it reaches a certain threshold, it's typically-- I
don't know in this case, but it could be a couple weeks or a month, and then it -- it records
over it. But it's sufficiently-- I think we've been having -- it's been usually two weeks.
And then you know if there's been an incident within the two weeks. You can go right
back to before it gets recorded over. And again, we've had really good luck. I think you
heard from the lieutenant in his last presentation that we were able to help apprehend two
teenagers that were involved in damaging -- was it Four Peaks Park? Yeah. So they're
very good investment.
DIRECTOR WELDY: This project is a multi-year, but up until this coming year, it's
been$200,000 that we've spent for in -- with in-field, and there have been substantial
improvements and several thousand linear feet of sidewalk installed under the Council's
direction. What we are asking for now is an additional $100,000 to help us design. We
discovered during Desert Vista and other projects that are currently on hold for sidewalk
infill that the design is very, very expensive. This funding will help us design these
challenging locations and also be beneficial as we continue to apply for grants to have the
majority of the sidewalk infill paid for by others. Right now, it's -- it averages about a 97
percent to a 3 percent town match or 95 percent and a 5 percent match for the different
types of grants.
Again, the bulk of the funding will go to fill in sidewalks that are shown on the active
transportation plan that was adopted by the mayor and Council. The remainder of the
funding will be used to design sidewalk. And this is an excellent example, this slide.
This is actually on Saguaro, where the sidewalk ends on a very steep slope next to a wall.
MAYOR DICKEY: So let me just ask again. The $2 million grant that we had, so that's
why there's only such a small match?
Page 37 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 38 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. So she's referring to the CMAC-1 -- CMAQ money that we
receive from Mag (ph.). So that's federal dollars that float through Mag that actually
helped us. But for us to do that, we actually had -- we already had a plan in place. And
so it's very essential to have these plans to be able to go after. But as Mr. DIRECTOR
WELDY pointed out, you know, if we were a flat town, we could really make our dollars
go further. In this case, as you can see, a lot of these sidewalks end up having to have
retaining walls and other issues. And then because there's infill, we sometimes have
utilities that are in the right of way that have to get relocated.
So it's just a very-- it's a very complicated process that unfortunately the master
developer of our town should have been held on the hook to put in all these in our
neighborhoods and in our right of ways that we're now doing catch-up. But in the end,
this is helping our town, I think, do catch-up that should've been done originally, and it's
going to help make our town more of a walkable community.
MAYOR DICKEY: So just to clarify, we -- for a long time, we were putting 100,000
towards infill. That was just building, right? It was not design. And then we upped that
to 200,000. So I guess I'm just kind of confused. Is this an annual 300,000 that's both for
building or is it a one-time 300,000 for a design for everything?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Excellent question. This is a multi-year, and the majority, 200
plus thousand dollars, will go to construction. The remaining funding will go to design.
And just for some clarification and a good example, on Fountain Hills Boulevard
between Segundo and Crystal Ridge in front of the church, that design, because of the
steep slopes and a very steep driveway that they primarily use for their funeral service,
that design right there was just under$10,000. It's completed now, and that will be one
of our priorities when the budget is adopted and we're able to move forward next year.
But that is a critical connector for that area of town connecting the Segundo Crystal
Ridge area to the downtown.
This is a multi-year project. Several years ago, the Federal Highway Administration
decided that the guardrail put in in the past based on crash data simply was not high
enough. They did not at that time issue direction on when the guardrail needed to be
updated. Since that time they have made a strong recommendation. We currently have a
firm giving us direction based on the Federal Highway Administration and, of course,
Page 38 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 39 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
ADOT, who will be preparing the manual to tell us what we need to replace and when we
need to replace it. And as result of that, we won't be able to pursue HSIP. That is
Highway Safety Improvement Program or funding for this type of work.
So we anticipate in the future that HSIP funding primarily will be used for this. Just as a
clarification, the HSIP funding can be used for guardrails, traffic signals, that kind of
thing, but it can't be used to improve any travel lanes. We had run into that on a couple
of other projects where they said, well, if you can't do this, build more road. In this case,
we can't.
MAYOR DICKEY: But you're not wanting to do this? You're recommending this for
next year?
DIRECTOR WELDY: We are. The assessment is underway right now. That assessment
will be done by June 30th. That'll give us an opportunity to review and also ample time
to prepare for grants so we can have that assessment to include in our grant. And it'll be
the following year when will bring it back and ask for funding --town or local funding to
match the grant funding.
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor, to your point, so this is one of the projects that we
realized, you know, this didn't really need to be in for next fiscal year. So this was
reprioritized for the year after. Thank you for the question.
DIRECTOR WELDY: The town manager earlier described the adoption of the
downtown vision plans. You have those concepts that were printed for you and are on
the dais. This is the area of the downtown that was discussed in the Downtown Vision.
It should be noted that the engineering firm that worked with the Swaback and
Associates, when they did their analysis, they noted in 2009 and '10 that by this time if
you build a single lane roundabout, that most likely using projections from Mag and
traffic counts that it would need to be increased to two lines by-- between 2023 and
2025. And that report is available for anybody that would like to read it. So there were
several different options that were presented and brought forward at that time. The one
that was adopted and the concepts that were adopted are on the dais for your review.
This project right here is tied to the Fountain Overlook indirectly and directly. Because
of the scope and size of this, constructing this along with the next project -- and I'll move
over there just briefly-- would be important to tie the two of them together to minimize
Page 39 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 40 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
the disruption to construct both of them at the same time.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Can I just point out something? I think you know my
thoughts on this already, but we've got one and a half million dollars for Golden Eagle
impoundment improvements, 275,000 for the community center, 150,000 for the
panorama storm drain, 150,000 for drainage, our master planning. Those are things that I
think are critical -- as Grady mentioned, critical investment close to homes to protect this
town.
This is a nice to have -- and I know it's on the Swaback proposal -- but I'd like to see this
delayed and have these other projects taken care of so that we ensure the safety of our
streets, our washes, our residents, and that sort of thing. This is something I think that
can be delayed and waited on. We've got a lot of money going out here for these other
projects, and I think it's something that we need to take a second look at, myself
personally. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilor?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Justin, in looking at the schematic, I see there were
crosswalks, looks like the south and the north, is that right, of the roundabout. Is that
correct?
DIRECTOR WELDY: That is correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And is there anything -- maybe too early to answer
this. Is there anything proposed to get the traffic to stop other than people trying to get
across?
DIRECTOR WELDY: As part of this type of design-- and again, this is just a concept--
you can add rapid, rectangular flashing beacons. You have options with that. One of
them someone has to push a button. The other one is a detection system. So as soon as
someone enters the area, the lights flash automatically, and as they cross the street, it
detects them and keeps them flashing or starts flashing on the other side.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I've probably been in one of these, but I don't
remember seeing one that had two-lane roundabout.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah. The north side and Hayden over by-- I call it Costco, but
it's over by the Harley-Davidson. It's right behind it. That's one that-- that one's
probably, I would say, complicated only because it's got a lot of traffic it handles versus -
Page 40 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 41 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
- I don't think this would be anywhere near that bad.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I guess one thing would be important would be to
look at those others to see what kinds of problems they've had, if any.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think all the ones --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Accidents, people being confused, all that kind of
thing.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think all the ones going through in Sedona are two lanes.
Councilor?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Well, I'll be on the record,just like I was at the budget
retreat and everything. This is a great wish. I mean, you know, I want a Rolls-Royce. I
sure the hell can't afford one. To have this design and everything, great. To be able to --
I mean, if we're --right outside the door here was almost 900,000. I couldn't even wrap
my mind around what the cost of this would be after the design and this was to be put
together.
So I think it would make Rachael's 1.4 million dollar lights look like a cakewalk. So I'm
on the record vehemently opposed to this. I know other councilmembers like it, but I'm
vehemently opposed to it. I think that this is something that definitely can be delayed. I
concur with the vice mayor that there's projects that have meat to it and actually affect the
residents right now, here and now, with storm damage and things like that. So I'm sure
some of you are really for this. And you know, I love the picture. The picture looks
good. I just don't want the price tag attached to the picture. Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just curious. Do we have any accident data from
this intersection right now?
DIRECTOR WELDY: We do not have any current crash data. The crash data that we
have would be from several years ago.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, thank you, Madam Mayor. So from your
opening statement, I mean, it would be pretty much not doable to have a roundabout there
unless we do the overlook as well? Is that kind of what you're saying?
DIRECTOR WELDY: What I mean to say-- and maybe I was not clear on that -- is if
one-- or if they're both selected, it would be ideal to construct them at the same time. If
one or the other are selected,just have to make accommodations should the other amenity
Page 41 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 42 of 64
MARCH 22,2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
possibly be considered in the future.
MANAGER MILLER: And I think what he was trying to get at is it's also -- it's the same
firm, right?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Indeed.
MANAGER MILLER: And so part -- that' why they are rendering or the artist rendering
is very similar. It's also complementary. So the engineers took into consideration the
roundabout when they come up with this overlook design so, you know, it could fit. You
know, everything that they came up with, the design with the preliminary concept before
you, takes into consideration the shape and size of the roundabout.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: I mean, I know it's a much bigger price tag than
the shade structure. You know, we just talked about it, the Centennial Circle, but it's kind
of almost the same concept in terms of looking ahead in terms of usage and activity. And
some point in time we'll have the rest of the development along the avenue and Saguaro
on the southside there. Every year it seems like we hear about the need or want for more
activities in Fountain Park. We've had issues with access to those events down in the
park because there's really no ADA way to get to some of these, except for going past the
splash pad and coming in on the sidewalk way over there.
So I know it's a big price tag, but I think for the -- you know, and we're not going to be
voting on construction here in the next year, but to get to a certain point, you obviously
need to design it. And that's going to be up to future Council in terms of construction and
finances and all that kind of stuff. But I think to really put a exclamation point on what
we want our downtown to be and to accommodate the traffic and the pedestrians and the
events down there, I think something like this is, you know, a good thing.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I want to say yes and no because it's a lot of
money. But it's going to be so much less expensive if we do the design work now. I
don't see wanting to spend the money or even talk about spending the money to actually
do this kind of project for quite a few years. But I also see if we wait two years or five
years to design, it's going to be significantly more expensive. Is there, like, a study that
goes with this to let us know, yes, your traffic needs, or this is strictly just a design right
now?
DIRECTOR WELDY: And all of this discussion -- and that question is excellent. The
Page 42 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 43 of 64
MARCH 22,2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
intent is that they will utilize the past analysis, and then they will also perform up-to-date
traffic counts and turning movements in the area and use projections of what traffic will
be in the future and incorporate that into the design.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I think I'm for it. I don't see that we need to
build it right now, but I mean, that's the kind of thing that you trust experts for, but I love
the concept. And like Councilman Scharnow said, we don't have the handicap access
from that area of the park, and that's really kind of a big deal. And I love the idea of the
bridge going over the little area that gets wet so quickly.
DIRECTOR WELDY: It should be noted that as we had discussions about this with the
town manager and we reviewed all of the pages tied to the infrastructure bill, deep into
that it takes note that several projects will be in the 5, 7, 8 to 10 years from the original
passage, and the intended reason for that was to allow local, county, and state
governments and opportunity to design their infrastructure and have a design to come to
the table with.
MAYOR DICKEY: And I think that --
DIRECTOR WELDY: And this is -- I think this is also something that's important.
When we met with this firm, we asked them to please include the necessary
environmental clearances and any clearances that would be required by ADOT because
they're going to be the clearing house to ensure that when it's designed and the funding
comes forward from the infrastructure that we have already met that criteria, and we don't
have to go back and start the process over again. So there is -- about 10 percent of this
total covers the requirements that would be necessary to receive funding from the federal
government.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I think there's two things to look at. Like, we don't
have to do it now, of course, but you're looking at a project that was approved and was a
plan for downtown for 12 years. So we're not by any means jumping into something that
hasn't been on the books or hasn't been something that was desired. I think there is a
safety factor there. I don't know what it is, but, you know, all you have to do is eat lunch
over there one day, and the horns and the people that are trying to cross and such.
So I do believe that there is a factor to this. We often hear about development, economic
development, tourism, that kind of thing attracting businesses. We're on the verge of a
Page 43 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 44 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
lot of development in different parts of the town and perhaps downtown. And I think that
this is very fitting with that whole purpose. You know, we have an economic
development department. We spend money on ads and such like that. So I think this
goes towards that. It goes towards any of those efforts that we've taken along those lines.
I think that doing the design right now is a reasonable thing to do, and not to project too
far ahead when it could get done, but the idea that this could open the door to getting
some of the infrastructure funding, the fact that we'd have this in place, the design, is
something that I'd like to do now. But that's not a surprise, I'm sure. Yes, sir.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Justin, I see you have a sidewalk on here for the pedestrian
access. Throw out a ballpark figure. What would it cost to put that sidewalk in by itself
right now?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: So people could have access down to that -- down to the
lake, down to the other park amenities down there. And then I'll throw out another point.
The cost of doing these two designs and studies would be the $400,000 that Rachael
needs for her big umbrella, roughly. So I'm just throwing that out there. And that's an
immediate impact right now that we could use in the Centennial Circle by taking this
money, delaying this a year or two years. And I don't think that design cost is going to go
up that much in the next year or two years, but again, I'm not a designer. I don't know.
But I'm just wondering if we could do a sidewalk now to give people that have handicap
accessibility issues the ability to get down to our events and other things. I don't know
what it would cost. Would it cost $100,000? I don't know.
DIRECTOR WELDY: We don't have current funding, but when this was looked at
several years ago, it was north of$300,000 because you either have to go a great length
and go around the beginning of Fountain Channel, closer to the amphitheater, or you have
to bridge Fountain Channel. And we at that time didn't have a cost estimate for the
bridge. So I would be uncomfortable offering a firm number, but several years ago --
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Fair enough.
DIRECTOR WELDY: -- It was 300.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Yeah, fair enough.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I was just wondering about clarification. Are you
talking about a sidewalk that we see around or including the stairs on the right
Page 44 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 45 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
(indiscernible)?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Not including the stairs.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Just the sidewalk around?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Yeah.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Any other discussion for these two projects? This one right here
we had discussed in regards to traffic calming and, more importantly, the moving of
traffic through the intersection of Palisades and La Montana. Having looked at
everything that's going on and reviewed the budget for this year, we agree with the town
manager's recommendation that this one be moved forward a year. And let's look at
doing the analysis at that time.
Again, this is one of our busiest intersections, La Montana and Palisades. It's currently
controlled by an all-way stop. We do have a few crashes there. We don't have current
crash data, but we believe that in the -- if it hasn't already met some crash data warrants,
it would certainly meet other warrants. So again, it's controlled by an all-way stop, which
is not the best method for traffic movement, but it is currently the one that is functioning
here.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I'll just say personal experience. I haven't had any
problems in the area where the proposed roundabout would be. I have lots or problems
with this intersection where cars can't decide who goes first, who goes second. They both
go at the same time. I really think it's worth taking a hard look at this one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Go on, Mike.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: I agree.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Are you for it or against it?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: No, I agree. It should be moved up because it's
very confusing, and, you know, I'd like to carve out 150 somewhere else and move this
one back to 23, but that's how I feel.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I get the most complaints on this intersection
here from people around town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilor?
Page 45 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 46 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: No one ever wants to go, so I don't know how the hell
there can be accidents, and no one wants to go, and it's three minutes of everybody
waving everybody through the intersection. So I don't know. I mean, it's very easy to
call or ask Lieutenant Halverson to pull up how many accidents happen here. It's not
rocket science. Please, no more traffic studies.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah, we actually have this, and we can get this in time for the
next-- for the budget workshop because we are aware that there's been considerably more
accidents at this location. People have actually been running the stops. That's what's
been going on, which I can't understand why all of a sudden there's a rash of people
running a four-way stop intersection that's been there for years. And that's what we heard
about 2021, that people weren't stopping at that location.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I think they're building up speed through the
roundabout which was I -- that I was against. I think they're building up speed over here
and then shooting down the road, and it gives them momentum to go through the stop
sign. But anyways, Justin, what -- if the plan is -- I'm assuming this plan is stop lights.
DIRECTOR WELDY: There's no plan for any improvement at this time. We would
simply have an analysis done on it and have a traffic engineering firm give us the best
case scenario, whether it's a traffic signal or a roundabout.
MANAGER MILLER: We'd be bringing that back to Council ultimately for your
decision.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: And they would be presenting their findings and their
recommendations to the Council.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Correct.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I also think that I would like to see it moved up. I
think we discussed this in the safety-- the Pedestrian Safety Committee and thought that
-- I thought it was going to be done sooner rather than later.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah. So this was just a matter of we've had previous Council
interests in the prior projects that you've seen tonight, and so we were trying to make the
dollars work. So if something else was cut, we can certainly do that.
DIRECTOR WELDY: And with all due respect to the District 7 sheriffs office, we will
Page 46 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 47 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
go to the ADOT Crash Magic and pull the crash data through our GIS person. And I
don't that we have an opportunity right now to get some traffic counts, but let's see if we
can get that done so we can come back with that data and share it with you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilor?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I know you have to look at data, and crash data is
important. And I don't think there's a way to measure this. But I've seen so many
situations where people start through and hit the brakes. Somebody else is coming
through. And I don't know if there's any way to put up cameras there to look at it and see
what happens over time or-- is there anything like that that could be done?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Not that I'm aware of, sir.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilor?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Well, I was just looking ahead on other slide. You
know, Saguaro Boulevard and La Montana's on the list. And I know it's been one or two
people have really been complaining about that. We've had some incidents there, but it --
to me that intersection is lot less confusing, and I just -- someone called it a blind
intersection. I mean, there's just no way. And that's 150,000 that you have allocated
there. So, you know, you could slide that over to this one, in my opinion.
MANAGER MILLER: David, if you can come up, I think there might be -- when we get
down to the table, I think there's a -- maybe an error here on this slide, because I think
when you go to the table that shows the Public Works summary, I believe this is being
recommended.
DIRECTOR WELDY: And I think I put the recommended for fiscal year'24 on the
wrong--
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- slide.
MANAGER MILLER: So --
DIRECTOR POCK: My apologies. I was trying to --
MANAGER MILLER: So it --
DIRECTOR POCK: -- figure out how I could --
[CROSS TALK]
MANAGER MILLER: We have a summary table that you'll see, and it actually is in
Page 47 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 48 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
that, because I seem to remember that this was a higher priority, and it was. And I
couldn't understand. So it is actually recommended as we reprioritize, so it is there.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I'm totally for making it 2024.
MANAGER MILLER: Excuse me?
COLTNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I'm totally fine with 2024.
MANAGER MILLER: I get it, but it looks like consensus is not.
DIRECTOR WELDY: This next project has been on the radar of the subcommittee to
this Council, the Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee. One of the recommendations
we got after having the initial analysis done on that intersection was to increase the
timing by about two seconds for all of the left turns. And when we're talking traffic
signals, traffic signals operate on seconds. So two seconds of additional green time for
left turns will make some improvements. To what extent? We do not have that
additional data yet.
MAYOR DICKEY: This is the one that's being recommended to push off, right?
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. We just did the timing, and we have seen some noticeable
improvements. And so we wanted to just see another year to see if that might save us the
85,000. I do think probably we'll be back recommending this as a solution. But I'd like
to see if we can also make adjustments or tweaks to the current timing because this could
save us, you know, the 85,000 on the design for the stacking issue that we have at that
location.
DIRECTOR WELDY: So this one right here, while it's not shown on this slide, is a
recommendation to be deferred to '24. This one right here -- and we had discussed this at
the retreat. The Avenue receptacles in the palm tree islands and the lighting associated
with that-- in very poor condition. We agree with the town manager's recommendation
to move this out to FY24.
This one right here is two parts. One of them is drainage improvements that are needed
on the south side of this intersection at the golf cart underpass. The other one is this is an
excellent candidate in the future for a marked crosswalk using rapid rectangular flashing
beacons, because on the -- in this area the northbound side, we actually have sidewalks or
a walking path that ties this to Desert Vista Park. But we agree with the town manager's
recommendation to move this into FY24. Yes, sir?
Page 48 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 49 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
VICE MAYOR FREIDEL: Justin, I know there's a development going in on that corner.
Are we getting any help with this from the developer?
DIRECTOR WELDY: To date, sir, I'm not aware that we have spoken to Coffman about
a contribution to that.
MANAGER MILLER: My answer is no. And this was something that -- this came out
of the blue. The first time I ever heard of it was through this budget process. And so I'm
a little disappointed that we didn't try to talk to Coffman during their proposed project,
because typically you try to -- you don't extract it, but you try to get them convinced that
that would actually be helpful for them to contribute at least a portion of that cost.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: That's a big enhancement for his project there, I think.
MANAGER MILLER: It is. And we will definitely-- John, I know part of the deal with
the developer is he frequently gets his entitlements, and he doesn't pursue his
entitlements. So we'll have to go back and see what his interest level is on this particular
site.
MAYOR DICKEY: Council?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I appreciate you saying that, because when he was
in front of us, I said, you know, we give these special use permits, and people wait and
wait and wait. I said, are you ready to go? He said, we're ready to go right now. Well,
nothing's happened. Do we have any idea why? He said he was ready to go.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah. He just got an extension for another six months, right,
John?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yes, that's correct. Mayor, Council member. When we contact
him, he tells us, yes, he's still working on the more detailed plans, and yes, he plans to go
forward, but we haven't seen them yet.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: So in other words, he hasn't told us the truth?
MAYOR DICKEY: Should we talking about this?
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: You can't comment on that, but --
MANAGER MILLER: That's probably off--
MAYOR DICKEY: This is sort of off the agenda. Better be careful. Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: This next project was intended to be a connector directly from
Fountain Park to the Lake Overlook Trail. We agree with the town manager's
Page 49 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 50 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
recommendation to move this out to FY24.
This project right here was just briefly discussed. This is the intersection of La Montana
and Saguaro Boulevard. This is a placeholder for design. We currently have an analysis
that's completed on this. However, we need to share it with the town manager and the
Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee so we get clear direction from them. Ideally,
we would have this available by the -- is it April Council meeting when we bring these
back?
MAYOR DICKEY: 12th, I think.
DIRECTOR WELDY: I believe so.
MANAGER MILLER: Well, and what we typically do is everything goes before the
Pedestrian Traffic Safety Committee, and it comes before that group, and then it comes --
anything that comes out is a recommendation ultimately hands to the Council. So I
believe that's the next steps.
DIRECTOR WELDY: And this one right here could include any number of
improvements,just like the intersection of Palisades and La Montana. We're going to
look for some recommendations from this firm based on the completed analysis.
This one right here was to replace the last bit of holdout incandescent, and a metal-halide
light, and high pressure sodium lighting on the town hall campus, which is primarily the
sconces, and a few other exterior lightings. It does not include any parking lot lighting.
We agree with the town manager's recommendation to defer this into FY24.
This one right here is going to take a little bit of explanation because I did so poorly at
the retreat. I want to make sure that I convey the correct message here. While we were
renovating the community center, we discovered that we were having water infiltration
through storefronts. That's the areas of large windows and also the numerous entry
doors.
And lastly, one location on the west side of the building there is a walled-off private area
that has a small table in it where staff can enjoy lunch or visit with other staff. In that
area, that -- all of that concrete slopes towards the building and the water ponds there.
And there's simply no way to get it out without pumping it, without tilting all of that
concrete away.
Should be noted that during construction we took immediate action with staff and though
Page 50 of 64
1
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 51 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
some small change orders and addressed the lion's share of this water that historically
comes in from storms when the wind is blowing or when there is an unusual event with
increased intensity. We have not eliminated entirely, and these are temporary fixes.
They need to be addressed permanently. It's important to note that the money this
Council approved for that renovation was used wisely, and this minimal amount of water
intrusion is not going to damage or ruin those improvements. This is water that can
simply be mopped up or cleaned up. What we want to do is address it permanently.
Because of the size of the storefronts and the doors, it's going to be a rather expensive fix.
Yes, sir?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: So that concrete that slopes toward the building, can that be
jacked up to have it leveled out or pitched another way?
DIRECTOR WELDY: We would love to do jack slabbing; however, it's attached to the
building. It has to be cut and removed. We discovered that the on-grade-slab is bigger
than the building itself. So all the walls, storefronts, and doors were set back, and at
every one of those locations, there's about eight to ten inches or a foot of concrete that's
actually part of the structure that tilts back to the building. So that, we are going to
address that. We've actually met with numerous firms and finally discovered one in the
last few weeks that this is all they do, primarily in wet weather, but they work throughout
the U.S., and they have provided us a very good estimate to have this analyzed for the
storefronts and the doors.
The area underneath the little shade structure on the west side, that simply needs to be
removed and that concrete replaced and made to drain out into the parking lot. That's
really the only fix for that one. If we have funding available this year and we're moving
around on capital projects under direction from the town manager, we may very well
address that one sooner rather than later.
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Personally, I'd like to see that addressed ASAP.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah. So just to let you know, that building, the floors are all
built on grade. So with the floorcovering, it actually is slightly above grade. I mean,
when I say slightly, like, maybe a quarter inch or so.
When we were doing the remodel, we were doing it right during the storm season, and it
was basically below grade. And so that was allowing water to seep in, and it really
Page 51 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 52 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
became very obvious that, in the lobby area where we have those storefront windows and
the entry doors and all that, we were getting these issues. We already knew about the
western area by where you see the detention/retention basin put in, I guess as a dry well
that we have that goes below?
DIRECTOR WELDY: It is a detention basin that actually ties into our storm drain
system.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. So this became very obvious, but I'm glad Justin kind of
clarified because I was about ready to reach over during his presentation, and like -- it's
like, no. You got it all wrong. Because it made it sound like we just put in all this
millions of dollars of improvements knowing very well that we had this issue, and that's
not the case at all. And I'm glad he did a good job of trying to explain that tonight.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. So Justin, as you're aware
that I'm the one that lost my mind when you gave your last presentation. And the way
Grady just said, it appeared from the presentation that this was a very serious issue that
could cause serious damage. So we went from this could be a very serious issue with
flooding and cause damage, to the 800,000 we just spent in upgrades, to now it'll just take
a mop to --
DIRECTOR WELDY: And when I say that, let me convey this to the best of my ability.
There is still going to be water entering the building at several points on the lobby where
we have a tile floor. We will need to clean that water up when it happens. There will
also be a few areas on the west side of the building and on the east side of the building
that, during and after storm events, water will weep in through the storefronts and get the
carpet wet. And it's not just a one-foot in diameter, but it's a few feet in diameter area
that will have to be cleaned up to minimize long-term damage. It's still serious, and it's
still a problem that needs to be corrected. I just don't want you to think that it's
everything's going to be ruined. We're just -- we're going to have to take care of these
water issues more permanently, and right now, we don't have that solution.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Well, I appreciate that. I don't want any water
damage.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Understood.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Period. So what is the cost -- like I said last time, what
Page 52 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 53 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
would be the cost of fixing this so that there is no water intrusion, period? Not multiyear.
You know, we're going to mop this up, and maybe this piece of carpeting's going to go
bad or whatever. What is the cost? I think the Council should be aware. And I don't
want to speak for my fellow councilmembers, but I think that we, as a Council, should
make an informed decision on if we want to allocate the money that it would cost to fix
this and get it over with instead of delaying it for a couple of years.
DIRECTOR WELDY: I currently do not have the estimate from the firm that does this.
We will be bringing forward an agreement to this Council to approve, a professional
services agreement. It's going to take a little while for them to complete the assessment
and make a recommendation with an engineer's estimate. I do not have that number
tonight.
MANAGER MILLER: This is not a -- this is not a multiyear, though, so this is not to be
solved over a multiple number of years. This is intended, if we can get it -- and we've
heard it loud and clear. If we can get it solved this year, we will. We just don't know
what the cost is. But we will find the money, and we can do that because we should be
able to solve this problem now.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: But he's actively getting these quotes, and I feel very
comfortable, very good about getting a solution to this. But we've had other vendors give
us numbers. Like, the one that we used last year gave us some -- what he thought might
be an easy solution. We'll give this a shot. We'll try this. We did. It did some help with
the western door,but it didn't solve the rest of it. And we didn't get into this until the
floor was removed and we started having this issue. So our intent is to take care of this as
soon as we can, absolutely.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay. I mean --
MANAGER MILLER: We hear this loud and clear from the Council.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Yeah. I mean, I just feel that it's a pressing issue and
we should protect our investment. I think everybody up here would agree that if we
bought a home in the Midwest that had flooding, we would spend whatever money we
needed to put in a good sump pump and plan on -- you know, if we're going to remodel
our basement and it normally gets water, we're going to put a great sump pump in and
Page 53 of 64
1
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 54 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
make sure that we plan head to solve any damage that could happen. And I think that, in
this particular case, we're spending-- and I'm not beating a dead horse, but we're
spending $600,000 to see if a roundabout would be good in front of the fountain and all
of this other stuff, where we have a pressing issue here. And I would just --
Whatever it is. I don't know what it is, Mayor. I -- I -- I -- okay.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Well, I blacked it out because it was so traumatizing to
me.
So I just think that -- I just think that we should really make it a priority, and I think the
residents would agree that this should be definitely fixed. Because I know if you come
back to us and say you need a hundred grand for more carpeting before December, I'm
going to lose my mind.
DIRECTOR WELDY: We agree. And we've been working tirelessly to secure the right
firm. We have heard some pretty incredible things. It should be noted that with the staff
we have here, which is a supervisor and a plant mechanic, they have managed to address
the lion's share of this themselves with interim measures to minimize or eliminate the
water. Again, it's a temporary. And we certainly appreciate it, and it's important to us as
well.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I'm probably not understanding, but wouldn't we
need the number before we approve the CIP?
DIRECTOR WELDY: This was put together because we had not yet found a firm. So
we were using not the highest or the lowest estimate from the other firms that we had
spoken to but somewhere in the ballpark of what they thought it would cost. And until
we get an agreement with a firm and an affirmative on the permanent repairs, we
continue to move forward so we have the budget authority to make those changes.
MANAGER MILLER: This is pretty common. We typically get like what I would call
engineer's estimates that help us formulate the budget to submit. So this is typically
could be less or likely be less, so it's just an estimate at this point.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome.
This one right here also requires additional explanation. It should be noted that
immediately after Council approved the $600,000 plus to clean Golden Eagle Park,
during that time, we -- as part of that, we went in and cleaned out all of the drainage
Page 54 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 55 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
channels. We made them deeper. We made them wider. We took the necessary
measures to minimize the backwatering into the park at that time. As this process has
moved forward, we have encountered numerous challenges, including reviews by the
state agency in Maricopa County Flood Control District and ADWR.
Also during this process, we've had a couple of events, and as a result of the action taken
earlier to make the drainage channels wider and deeper and eliminate some physical
barriers on Golden Eagle Dam, the backwatering has been minimized, and we've been
able to address that backwatering internally and with contractors. After each storm event,
that is our first stop after we clear all of the streets and make sure they are safe.
With that said, there is a huge change in scope here that's going to be addressing the
items that we were not aware of,primarily related to electrical. Rachael touched on some
of that earlier in relation to the ballfield's lighting and the irrigation, in order to make the
necessary improvements to the channels and make them deeper and wider enough -- deep
and wide enough to manage the flows.
The irrigation that is currently just on the side of these drainage channels has to be
moved. We don't want that to be haphazardly. We need that to function for many, many
years to go.
Another part of the option is making the ballpark on the north side -- it has a number, and
it's called Ballpark 1 on the north side. Currently, if you have physical challenges, you
have to take a pretty strenuous flat route to get to the other ballparks on the south side and
the amenities. So we have asked this firm to also look at possibly eliminating that long
winding walk that goes through the channel and inevitably will be flooded with each
event and look at possibly building a smaller, shorter pedestrian bridge that would
eliminate that.
It should be noted that we are asked as a municipal government, any time we make
substantial improvements to one of our amenities, we also update the accessible routes.
And you'll see that again and again, in all of our PowerPoints and all of our projects, that
we are mentioning accessible routes and ADA accessibility parking stalls and that kind of
item that's necessary. Not only is it mandated, it's simply the right thing to do.
With that, the project has had some delays because of some staffing changes. There have
been some scoping changes. It's been very, very frustrating on our side and very, very
Page 55 of 64
I
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 56 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
frustrating on their side. We have come to an agreement. Mayor, Council approved an
amendment to their contract. We had asked for a very, very tight schedule to finish the
design. They are currently anticipating September of this year to have this designed.
And at that point in time, we will release this for public bid and be returning to the mayor
and Council shortly afterwards to award the contract to the lowest or most responsive
bidder for that project and move through it and finally make these changes permanent.
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. And Justin, thank you. I think you touched on some of the
issues that we experienced. But last month at the retreat, we had expressed some
concerns with the delays and such, and I think it would be appropriate for you to go into a
little bit more detail. You kind of touched the iceberg on that, but you didn't go into the
details. So you want to -- we were specifically asked and tasked with meeting with our
town attorney and staff involving this and look at what happened and if there's any
recourse. So do you want to go into a little bit of detail on that? Actually, that included-
- it was yourself, the attorney, and -- was it our finance director?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Correct.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah. So -- and procurement, I believe.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Correct. I don't want to give away a lot of detail here because
there's a lot of moving parts here. We had a substantial staffing change during this time.
As a result of that staffing change, at that time, the plans were considered at 95 percent,
and there were a few minor changes necessary to move forward.
The incoming person that took over the review of those projects decided it was at 60
percent or less and, intentionally based on challenges with the drainage, elected to not
include the necessary changes that Kevin(ph.) and Rachael felt were critical for this
ballfield.
Since that time, we've had another staffing change. He's sitting right here behind us. We
all got together, including Kevin and Rachael; we've met with the finance director. We
have had discussion with the town attorney. We believe at this time we have a tight grip
on this, including the schedule and the funding. We are having more frequent meetings
and updates, including ADWR and the Maricopa County Flood Control District.
We will be moving forward to discuss what we may or may not be able to do in regards
to the delays and other challenges. We just don't have that information available right
Page 56 of 64
I
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 57 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
now. We will provide that to the town manager for review and the town attorney for
direction.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. So I believe it was myself
and Councilmember Magazine that were very upset about this. And I specifically had
asked if there was money still owed on this contract, if we still owed JE Fuller
money, that the study had not been paid in full.
I would hope that in these meetings, it seems to be that there was some culpability on the
Town's part with-- as I'm reading between the lines -- with staffing changes and
everything, but I would hope that we would entertain, when we're moving along in these
discussions, that we won't be paying for this study in full because there also seems to
be-- and you can correct me if I'm wrong -- but there also seems to be some culpability
on the design firm's part also. And if there is some culpability on their part, as well as
our part, I wouldn't expect to pay the full price for this contract; do you agree?
DIRECTOR WELDY: I understand that your comments, and to some extent, I agree.
And I think this is important to note. In regards to the deficiencies on the Town's side,
that is solely my responsibility. It happened in my department, and I am responsible for
clearing that up. In regards to payment processing, I agree, we will, in the end, negotiate
and/or refuse to pay some funding at that point. But again, I don't want to get into a lot of
detail on that because.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I understand you're protecting -- I understand, and I
don't want you to go beyond the scope of what this meeting is about. But I would like to
say that I want to emphasize the fact that we should not be paying someone the full
amount of their contract-- and this isn't the lawyer in me because I'm not a lawyer, but
I'm sure Councilmember McMahon would agree with me that we're not going to give
somebody their full amount when they didn't hold up their end of the bargain. So
whatever we negotiate, let's just make sure that we're not paying the full amount and
we're on the hook for the full amount.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Understood.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: And just to help along that line, my understanding is
staff is trying to put together a timeline as to when things changed and what happened,
which would help us narrow that down to figure out their culpability and the Town's.
Page
57 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 58 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I just mention one thing? There's two things going on. One is
the delay and all of the things that we were just talking about. But just to get back to
when this first happened, it was never going to be something that was solved right off the
bat. And I remember thinking when we spent-- well, when the other Council spent so
much to do what they had to do,just knowing that wasn't all of it made an impression me.
So that part of it was known that it was not done. So it doesn't say, well, we cleaned it all
up and, you know, kind of like what you're saying about the community center. It's not --
that part of it is the same, but there's plenty else there, so I appreciate it.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Any additional discussion on this one?
This project right here was actually deferred a couple of times throughout the years. It is
currently in this year. However, we discovered when we brought it back to life that the
documents had never been completed and sealed by the original firm. As a result of that,
each of the vendors that we reached out to and asked them to construct it based on their
specifications said they would not because it had not been sealed by an engineer.
We are currently working with that firm to finalize this and make some minor changes.
And the next year, we would move forward with the manufacturing and the installation.
And it should also be noted it's taken -- and I'll just say this -- me a considerable amount
of time to get that firm to own this and start communicating with staff to address this
because, in their opinion, they have been paid for a service and any additional service
beyond that is an additional fee. At this point in time, I agree,provided the fee is
reasonable.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I just don't understand the terminology. When you
say it hasn't been sealed, what do you mean by that?
DIRECTOR WELDY: When a firm, especially an engineer, designs a project and things
that are going to be in the right of way, that project is historically sealed with his or her
stamp and then signed and that is their seal of approval, stating that this meets all of the
necessary requirements by the local county, state, and federal government to be in the
right of way.
MANAGER MILLER: It's really essential, and it helps protect the Town from a liability
standpoint because some of these are going to have, like, wind loads and things like that,
and you can have like a windstorm just blow one of these and hit a car that's driving by.
Page 58 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 59 of 64
MARCH 22,2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
So it's a good question because a lot of times we don't really see this, but when you see
award of contracts for, like, the roundabout or transportation projects, or even when we
put in the crosswalk on Saguaro, we had to have a traffic engineer go and design that.
And so they take that, come up with a design. They do the analysis, and then they sign it
and then basically seal it, and that's basically good as gold. So that --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I'm probably the only one that doesn't understand
this. Please repeat where we are with this right now.
DIRECTOR WELDY: We have 95 percent plans that need to be sealed by the original
design engineer so a firm that manufactures and install these will give us a price to do
just that, install and manufacture them.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: What is the 235,000?
DIRECTOR WELDY: That is the estimated cost for design and installation.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Oh, it is.
MANAGER MILLER: Well, it's mostly-- it's mostly-- it's mostly manufacture and
installation.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Well, excuse me. Bad word. Not design. Manufacturing and
installation.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And installation.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're correct. Thank you for that correction.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Are we using a local firm for this manufacture?
DIRECTOR WELDY: We'll certainly--
DIRECTOR WELDY: Valley based.
DIRECTOR WELDY: -- talk to the local firms, but in this case, these specialty items
tend to be a little bit difficult for a local firm to manufacture. Some of these things are
eight feet high and five feet wide.
MANAGER MILLER: What we'll do is well get -- we'll do a solicitation. So the local
companies have an opportunity to go and submit because I believe the locals could do
this. It's just that a lot of the materials that are used to actually manufacture these are not
things that they keep in stock, and they could find that they probably aren't as competitive
because a lot of these are going to be the types of companies that do signage for highway,
Page 59 of 64
1
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 60 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
like ADOT and MCDOT, but we will definitely do it so that the local companies can
also --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I just think that's very important that we try and --
MANAGER MILLER: Yes.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: -- and work locally if we can. It sends a message.
DIRECTOR WELDY: We agree, and we do so.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thanks, Mayor. I -- too piggyback off the vice
mayor's comments. I've met with the owners of-- I don't-- the Signart, and he begged us
to please let him be a part of the process. I know that there's time, like Grady said, that
there are specialty pieces and whatever. But I personally basically promised him that in
the future when the Town does do sign things that we would at least give him a shot at it.
If he's not competitive, and we can find it cheaper somewhere else, of course, we're going
to save money. But at least let's get him involved in the process and let him take a crack
at it because I'm with the vice mayor; I think that we should shop local. We preach as
councilmembers, eat local, shop local, and all that, that should include a business like
that.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Absolutely, and we actually engaged that aforementioned for
several of our manufacturing of signs. Not our highway signs, but specialty signs and
certainly all of our recent plaques have come from that local retail.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: You know, I know it's been quite a number of
years when this was originally brought up and then kind of scrapped. And so I'm just
wondering when this comes forward -- I mean, there'll be kind of a-- you know, a map
showing where everything's going and how many signs and --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
DIRECTOR WELDY: We still have --
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: -- all that, I mean.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Yep. We still have all of that.
,,� .••„ .a �_ ,. _., ,to ,. ._ fi. ..,, wt
Page 60 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 61 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. Okay.
DIRECTOR WELDY: And we will bring this back to the mayor and Council for award
of contract for manufacturing and installation. And at that time --
MANAGER MILLER: And in that packet, it will show the maps, where the locations are
recommended.
MAYOR DICKEY: This is a -- you know, it's kind of annoying, actually, because
thinking back to when this happened, I think the sip (ph.) for the signs, themselves, was
just over a hundred grand. They spent a hundred grand on the design, which was, you
know, really out of hand. If you're looking at it right now, it's like, you know, a design
for signs that are going to cost 200,000 was 100,000. And now, to find out that that
100,000 was spent on someone that didn't seal it is particularly annoying, I guess.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Understood. Any additional questions or comments on this one?
VICE MAYOR FRIEDEL: Wouldn't that be against the terms of the contract for them to
not seal it, and if so then they shouldn't be charging extra, right?
DIRECTOR WELDY: They're not charging extra. They brought it to the point where it
was then deferred by then the mayor and Council. So in their opinion, they brought it to
that level. And then the project was scrapped by the mayor and Council, not by them, so
their indication is they were paid the full amount of their contract price for the services
provided. However, it did not include the final package --
MAYOR DICKEY: But as -- oops. Sorry.
DIRECTOR WELDY: --which included the oversight of manufacturing and also the
oversight for installation, which they will not be involved in this time,just the sealing of
the documents.
MAYOR DICKEY: But as we discussed these other projects and we discussed how
important it is to have the design in place, shouldn't it be in place in a way that you can
implement it? So to me, like when we talk about anything that we're going to go for a
grant, we say, we'll we've already -- now, we have a design. We're ready to go on an
intersection or something then, even if they don't -- even if a Council doesn't do it, it
should be something that's ready to go in two years or three years or whatever. They did
not leave us with a product that's usable.
MANAGER MILLER: You're absolutely right. And this is a very highly unusual --
Page 61 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 62 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
we've never had this kind of situation happen. Part of what I believe happened is the
combination of the Council terminating the project, and also we had a payment schedule.
And so I'm not sure, but I don't believe we paid the final final payment, which, you know,
this was a payment schedule based on progress, and they do this, and then they'll get paid
this. So I believe that's what happened. When it got terminated, we hadn't gotten to that
final=point to make the final payment, which was probably just a nominal amount to
finish up.
MAGAZINE: Right. I was on the Council at the time. I don't remember terminating the
project. I remember that we said we just didn't want to spend the amount of money it was
going to cost to fabricate them and place them. It seems to me that's a different definition
of terminating the project.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah. I would tell you that you're probably right. It was
actually in this kind of environment. It was actually at a budget workshop. Or actually, I
think it got terminated -- or I shouldn't say terminated. That's not a good term. But I
would say that the project got scrapped by the Council at one of these types of
workshops. And Council gave us direction, and we communicated that back to the
contractor.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Well, my recollection is -- again, using the word
terminated. I think we didn't want to spend that much money at that time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: And I think that's different.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Yeah. The project was deferred by one year. We brought it back
the next year, and we were asked to move it out several years because we had some
challenges that we were working with financially.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: So it was a deferral. It wasn't a cancellation of the
project?
MANAGER MILLER: I --
MAYOR DICKEY: It should have been usable.
MANAGER MILLER: I don't know. I think the Council -- I think over that one year
when the Council said that's it, it got resurrected by either the same Council or a future
Council. So it really-- it got killed. I mean, I remember that specifically because the
Page 62 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 63 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
Council --
MANAGER MILLER: The Council --terminated was a nicer term. But the Council was
getting all sort -- if you recall and you were on the Council at the time, the Council was
getting beat up by the public over this. And they just thought, why do we need to know
how to get to the park or the library or whatever. We don't need signage, so.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: We didn't -- when we saw the numbers, we didn't
need to get beat up by the public.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah. And --
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: We looked at those numbers and said, you must be
kidding me.
MANAGER MILLER: And to the Mayor's point, it was a lot of money for the study, but
in addition to that, the cost for investing in these signs was more than just these types of
signs. We also had three monument signs. So it would be replacing the ones we have on
Saguaro, and we were going to put one on McDowell Mountain Road as you come into
town. And they were a totally different look. They were very similar to the one on the
far left here, but it wouldn't have said, you know, all of those different things. It would
have just said "Welcome to Fountain Hills", so that added -- I think, those monument
signs added a lot, like almost, what, like 300,000.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Let me conclude that I was right.
MANAGER MILLER: Half million,just for the monument signs. It was like a half
million just for the monument signs. So good discussion. I think Justin did a really good
job trying to explain this project. We won't use termination in the future.
DIRECTOR WELDY: We're going to wrap it up. This is our five-year horizon that
incudes, obviously, the five-year horizon. You'll see that on some of these that they have
been moved out or the funding no longer exists. And the reason for that is we currently
do not know in regards to the guardrail what we need, so we will ask that that be put back
on for the future.
This is the summary. The description, obviously, the cost in the lefthand column. And
on the right, the recommended deferrals or the projects that have been approved. The
ones in red are the ones that we agree need to be deferred. The exception to that -- and I
want to make sure that we have the correct notes. We want to look at Palisades and La
Page 63 of 64
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 64 of 64
MARCH 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORKSHOP ON CIP
Montana, correct?
MANAGER MILLER: Which is recommended there. Yeah.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Okay. All right. This is the final slide of the summary. If you
have any questions about the summary slides, I'll do my best to answer them. We're all
set. Thanks again for the opportunity and staying late with us again tonight. We
appreciate it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Go ahead.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: I just want to -- even though we may not all be in
agreement on every one of these, I want to compliment the staff because this is no easy
task to come up with all of this and to price things out and so on, so thank you very much.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else? Anybody have any comments or questions? Okay.
I think we're ready for a motion to adjourn.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Motion to adjourn.
COUNCILMEMBER MAGAZINE: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All in favor, say aye.
IN UNISON: Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Good night.
Page 64 of 64