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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022.0822.TCWS.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE WORK SESSION
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
AUGUST 22, 2022
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Dickey called the Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on
August 22, 2022, to order at 7:44 p.m.
2. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel; Councilmember
David Spelich; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Alan Magazine;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Mike Scharnow
Members Absent: None
Staff Present. Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town
Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Ten members of the public were present.
3. REGULAR AGENDA
A. DISCUSSION AND POSSIBLE DIRECTION: Presentation of the final report on
the Town's Fire and Emergency Medical Services by McGrath Consulting.
Craig H. Haigh, Senior Consultant, and Malayna Halvorson Maes, Senior
Consultant of McGrath Consulting, provided an overview of the final report for the
Town's Fire and Emergency Medical Services and answered councils' questions.
4. ADJOURNMENT
MOVED BY Councilmember David Spelich to adjourn, SECONDED BY Councilmember
Alan Magazine to adjourn.
Vote: 7 — 0 Passed — Unanimously
The Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on August 22, 2022,
adjourned at 9:51 p.m.
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
Mendenhd1l' Town Clerk
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
Ginn
CERTIFICATION
cke Mayor
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of
the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council
Chambers on the 22nd day of August 2022. I further certify that the meeting was duly
called and that a quorum was present.
DA E r' is 201b !av .f_ e.tember 2022.
inda . endenhal own Clerk
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 1 of 51
AUGUST 22, 2022 TOWN COUNCIL WORK SESSION
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
August 22, 2022 Town Council Meeting
Work Session
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Call this to order. And 1 think, Linda, the roll call?
MENDENHALL: Let the record reflect that all town council is present.
[LAUGHTER]
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MAGAZINE: She's good.
MAYOR DICKEY: We discussed this.
Our item for tonight on our work study is to discuss our fire department. And Grady, I'll
kick it off to you.
MILLER: Okay. Just wanted to remind the Council that last year we had the Council
consider approving two separate contracts. One was for evaluation of and financial
analysis of the fire department, and the other one was for law enforcement. These two
functions arc our most expensive services that we provide the citizens, and probably
likely most citizens would agree they're the most important to them. It's typically what a
community provides to its residents in terms of quality of life, and so these are very
important. And were going to go ahead and turn this over to Mr. Pock, our finance
director, who is going to provide additional details before introducing folks from the
McGrath Consulting Group that conducted the analysis.
With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Pock.
POCK: All right. Good evening, Mayor. Good evening, Council. As Grady mentioned,
we did do an RFP process in the fall of 2021 for our tire and emergency medical services
evaluation. That contract was awarded to McGrath Consulting Group, and that was done
in November. Shortly after the contract was awarded we began kind of our start up with
McGrath and just wanted to kind of give you a quick background on that company as
well as the team members, the consultants that worked on this.
So McGrath Consulting's been in business for 21 years, specializes in public safety
analysis. They have over 350 clients in 39 states, and as 1 mentioned the contracted was
awarded for us in November.
The team lead on this was Chief Craig Haigh. He's got 38 years of fire service
experience. He retired as a fire chief and director of emergency management from the
village of Hannover Park, Illinois.
Also on the team was Ms. Malayna Maes. She's got 20 years of HR experience and prior
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experiences at a county human resource director and also primary compensation
consultant for the city of Marshville [sic], Wisconsin.
So with that, I'd just like to say and let Council know that Chicf Haigh was a great person
to work with. I know many of you met with him individually; he also spent a lot of time
on this, so I will invite him up to go through his presentation.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MAES: Is it okay if I just --
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. of course, yes, welcome. Thank you for coming.
HAIGH: So I get to, I guess, lead this evening and all of the technical and really detailed
analysis Malayna will take. So at least you're familiar with how the plan will lay out.
As we get ready to step into this, look at the overall fire department, I will just say to the
Council, generally whenever our firm gets hired to come take a look at something like
what you've asked us to do, usually we get called because there's a disaster that has
occurred, or one that is impending within the next month, and they've called us and said,
hey, come take a look and help us figure out what it is that we need to do, and you've got
to do it right away, and you've got fix it because things are coming apart. That is not the
situation that you have. And 1 think that it's important to make sure that the Council
understands that this analysis and evaluation is a proactive step to determine whether
you're doing the right things, but from our big picture overview, you don't have a major
problem at the moment, and it takes some of the pressure off in being able to analyze, and
make sure that we get this correct. So 1 applaud the village for -- or I'm sorry -- the town
for stepping through that scenario.
So let's take a little bit of a high level look at the scope of the project and some of the
specifics. As Mr. Pock indicated, we were commissioned by the town to conduct an
independent, nonbiased study and cost analysis of overall lire department operations, and
the goal of the study really fell into a couple very specific categories.
One, should you renew the contract that you've had for a long time with the private
contractor, Rural Metro? Should you seek a intergovernmental, or IGA, agreement with
a nearby municipality that could provide fire protection services to you? Or should you
create your own in-house fire department? So those were the areas that we primarily
focused our attention on to try to give you the best analysis and options. As we walk
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through this, there are a couple other options that we think exist that may or may not be
of interest to the Council, and I'll address those just briefly.
In addition, you have a detailed report that we completed that's the specifics on each one
of these areas. So what Malayna and I will be walking through tonight with you is just
the overall high level interview, but then we're happy to dig down as necessary, try and
answer any of your specific questions.
Overall study methodology for this really focused in six key areas. As we came in,
McGrath Consulting Group has primarily been a firm that has been located in the
Chicago metro area for almost all of its existence. Our headquarters was moved to
Tennessee within the last 12 months, but we are not from the Phoenix Valley area or
from Arizona, and so some of the analysis -- and I think it's positive in this particular
study. Some of the analysis is that we truly were able to evaluate this with an
independent eye because we didn't know per se the operational systems here in the
Phoenix area, and so we had to learn it and we needed to evaluate. And I think that's
beneficial for us to be able to give you a true unbiased analysis as to where you're at.
So step one of this overall methodology is we needed to understand the overall
contractual situation that you have Rural Metro, how it works, how it's operated for a
long time. We, two, needed to understand how fire services are provided throughout the
Phoenix Valley area. Three, we needed to do some analysis work as it relates to
compliance, use the national standards or best practices. There are a number of national
standards that are out there as it relates to providing fire protection, and we wanted to
evaluate those and look to see how that was operating within this particular community
with the service provider that is taking care of you at the moment. Fourth, we wanted to
analyze the options related to how best to provide fire protection services in the future.
Fifth, we needed to analyze the overall cost projections and give you some options. And
then lastly, we wanted to be able to provide recommendations based on study findings
and, more importantly, to give you some options. And I think that's -- in all of my years
working with local government, my direction as fire chief always was, give us options.
Let us know what we can do and what might be a possibility. And so we've tried to do
that for you in this overall study.
So as the study process laid out, interviews were one of our key aspects, and I had the
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opportunity to either meet with each of you in person or via a phone conversation. I think
it's always important to get an understanding as it relates to the position of the elected
officials who actually represent the residents of the community. We spent a number of
hours with your community's leadership, your manager, and Mr. Pock and others to wrap
our arms around that side of overall community governments.
The fire service leadership component, I think, was pretty important for us to really come
to an understanding of how fire service is provided here in the Phoenix Valley area. So
we talked to the neighboring fire chiefs. We talked to past leadership from the fire
service. We spent significant time with Chief Ott, and I appreciate his indulgence in
talking us through and being very transparent in his conversations. And then from there
we looked at a number of different external service providers such as the retirement
system and public safety retention pool and the employee assistance program because
that was all going to be role in the overall analysis. So we tried to do our due diligence
and speak to, or speak with, or obtain information from as many of those involved parties
as we possible could get our hands on.
Another major component of this is an overall document and data review. Fortunately, as
we started the work for Fountain Hills, a number of communities over the years have
looked at a very similar situation. This is not a new topic in the Phoenix metro area, and
there are a number of studies that have been conducted by a number of different
consulting firms. And what I think was a benefit is that all of those studies that were
conducted were different than a study conducted by us. So I was able to reach out to
those consultants and evaluate their work but then give it our overlay to determine
whether or not we agreed or what the perspective was. But there's a lot of information.
1 will also say we did a public document review and we looked at letters and memos and
training documents and strategic plans and things like that from that a number of the
different communities that have addressed this, and your neighboring fire chiefs and their
leadership team were fantastic. Any questions that I asked, any comments that -- or any
information I asked for, they more than happy to provide that. So it was incredibly
helpful in trying to figure this thing out.
And then lastly we looked at the regional dispatch services. As you know, your fire
dispatch comes through a transfer. The call will come in, and then it'll be transferred into
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Rural Metro. Rural Metro actually do the dispatch for your fire agencies out of their
dispatch center. And in the event that the town would elect to move away from a contract
with Rural Metro, the situation would be you'd have to figure out where you're going to
go for dispatching. So we wanted to look at that, figure out what the cost would be, and
be able to provide some data and information there.
Malayna spent an incredible amount of time -- and she'll have the opportunity to speak
about this -- looking at some of your specific Fountain Hills data, personnel policies, and
pay plan and employee benefit guides, all of those thing necessary to be able to make a
holistic evaluation as to what the cost would be. I also looked at --just as an added
comment, we looked at your Fountain Hills community survey that was completed in
2021, and as the manager indicated, public safety is very, very important to the residents
of this community. And I think one of the positive aspects that I could see from that
study is that the residents of the community are pretty happy with the services they're
providing, that are being provided to them. So I think that that community survey was
helpful in making some overall review.
Now, with any study of this type there are going to be limitations. And the limitation that
we noted in this is that Rural Metro and their parent company, they're a private, for -profit
entity. So when it comes to saying -- typically in government we're able to look at other
communities; were able to look at numbers; we're able to do a side by side comparison
on data. We weren't able to completely do that because a private entity doesn't have to
release their overall numbers to us. So I would've liked to have been able to do some
better analysis and side -by -side comparisons for you, but in this particular case, just
because of the nature of what it is -- I think we've got good stuff for you, but I wasn't able
to bring some of that stuff together, and that's just the nature of how things lay out.
So key takeaways. What do we know? Let's start off with where you're currently at as it
relates to services within your community. One, I would say that Fountain Hills has a
very low fire dollar loss rate, which I think is fantastic. An awful lot of communities
can't say that, and 1 think there's a couple reasons for that, and I'll speak to those in just a
moment. But your overall rate is very low.
Call volume is about 4,200 calls a year. That's where you were at in 2021, and it sounds
like you're going to be there or just a little bit higher in 2022. I will just tell you for your
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population base, that's a pretty consistent number for what we would see if we would
look at any community across the country, so that doesn't surprise me in any one
direction or the other.
Your overall dollar loss from structure fires is very low. So you don't -- you're fortunate
in that you're not going to a lot of structure fires, and your overall dollar loss when you
do go to a structure fire is low. The fires are being stopped and reducing that overall
property loss to your residents.
Some of the contributing factors, I think, that add to that overall analysis as to what were
seeing, I think your building and site plan reviews are ensuring that your building and
your construction is as it needs to be, meeting standards. Your building and site
inspections, I can't say enough as it relates to ensuring that you're getting your inspectors
out there and making sure that what you think is happening is exactly what's happening.
Public education activities. Responsible capabilities and professionalism of your fire
department staff. I will say that everyone that I interacted with at the fire department, top
notch. Top notch. And seem to have a well-oiled machine and really understanding of
the requirements for the community. And lastly I'll just say your sprinkler and alarm
ordinances, if you want to have low dollar loss, sprinkler your buildings. And you have
been very proactive in making that happen, and I think all of those come together to
contribute to what it is that we're seeing.
From there, another key takeaway is that you have a contract with Rural Metro. And
Rural Metro appears, from all of the data that 1 was able to get my hands on -- and as I
indicated, there are some limitations. But from all of the data that I was able to get my
hands on, it looks like Rural Metro is in full compliance with all of the obligations that
are detailed in their contract. I'll click through just a couple of them.
Overall response time. The contract lays out that they want to respond in then than 300
seconds. I'll show you a graph in just a second. They're completely in compliance with
that. They actually exceed the standard. The standard is, is that the response time is
going to be 90% of the time. I will tell you, based on the numbers I looked at, they're
hitting the response times within 100% of the time. So they're exceeding that.
Two NFPA standards that we look at from the national perspective -- and when I speak
about NFPA, National Fire Protection Association. It's a consensus standard building
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group. We look at -- in a study like this we look at two specific standards. We look at
1221, which is dispatch, and we look at 1910 as it relates to staffing. Neither one of
those standards are addressed within the Rural Metro contract, so it's a little difficult for
me to compare. But as we move into sotne of the further discussion, we'll look
specifically at those standards because they have an impact on how services are provided
in the Phoenix Valley, and if you've -- I'm sure throughout the discussion you hear about
things like Automatic Aid and the Automatic Aid System within the Phoenix Valley.
They're going to basing some of those on those NFPA standards. So you need to know
they're there, and I'll try and explain them the best I can so you understand how to make
some of your determinations.
Overall response time, as 1 indicated just a few minutes ago, Tess than 300 seconds is the
standard that we're after, and in 2021 the average response coming in at about 290
seconds. So they're meeting -- the Rural metro program as it operates today, meeting
those standards, and is actually below what the standard is as it relates to their overall
contract.
I laid out two charts here for you, the five-minute zone and eight -minute zone, and you
can see the colors as it relates to station 1 and station 2. If you were wondering whether
or not you have your fire stations positioned correctly to be able provide optimal response
times, nice work. You got them exactly where you need to be. So you can look at the
numbers there and see that that's going very, very well.
1 will just say, as it relates to the key takeaways, overall big picture, I think Chief Ott
manages the organization that he leads very, very well. And he's humble guy and he told
me, I don't want that slide in there. That's --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: Take that out. Is he back there hiding?
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: I'm not looking at him. I don't want the eye. But he does a very nice job and is,
I will just say, a true professional, and it was a pleasure to get the opportunity to work
with him. Add that to the apparatus that you're operating, the equipment you have, and
your fire stations, you guys are in great shape. The challenge is just what are you going
to do as it relates to staffing and what are the roles that play out there.
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So let's flip just a little bit, and 1 told you about the really positive things that I see. Let's
talk about the other side of the coin, and I think in any study like this there's pros and
cons associated with it.
So the trend over the last 30 years has been for municipalities or districts here in Arizona
to move away from contractual fire services that have been provided by Rural Metro. As
it relates to those master contracts -- and that's what you operate under, is a master
contract -- there's really only two of those master contracts that are left. Carefree has a
master contract, and as I understand it, based on the latest information I have, is they
they're evaluating options for a potential change. I don't know that any decision has been
made, but I do know they're in the process of evaluating what that might potentially look
like. The last number I heard is it -- and this may not be completely valid because it's
been a little bit since I've talked to those folks -- is they were going to take 18 months and
take a look at the scenario. So my assessment is, is that that's under way and they're
evaluating what they're going to do. The other thing, I think, that is --
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you mind --
HAIGH: -- a little bit --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- if we ask a question?
HAIGH: I'm sorry. Yes, sir.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilman?
SCHARNOW: Craig, yeah. Thank you. Just wondering, when you talked to Carefree,
what kind of prompted them to initiate a study or why they're looking at options in --
HAIGH: I think --
SCHARNOW: -- in general?
HAIGH: -- I'll cover that in my next slide. And if 1 don't answer it for you, we can back
up and I can make sure I can get that for you.
I was just going to say, the other thing that seems a little concerning to me, Rural Metro
is owned by a much larger company, Global Medical Response, and they own a number
of different entities, AMR being one of those as it relates to ambulance services. It
appears from everything I was able to find that Global Medical Response is not through
Rural Metro adding master contracts. So they have a lot of contracts as it relates to
private industry, they have some aviation contracts, but they don't seem to be adding
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master contracts. So that leads me as a consultant to say, if they're not adding master
contracts, is that something that is not part of their overall business plan moving forward.
I don't have the answer to that because of some of the limitations of the study. But it's
certainly something that's in my mind as I take a look at that. And if Carefree goes away
and makes a determination whether to contract with another fire entity, or whether they
create their own fire department, whatever that might potentially look like, that will put
Fountain Hills in a position where you're the last one. And is that positive or negative? 1
think it could go either way. So 1 think it's important to make sure that we bring that
forward.
To address your question, Councilmember, I would say that the conversation as 1 talked
to the various entities, and live talked to some of them, not all of them. I've got in that --
in the left -- or I would say over there in the bullet point box with the dates, 1 tried to list
out from information I was able to obtain communities or fire districts that have moved
away from Rural Metro. I would say that the primary reason that those moves were
taking place is that communities were looking for local control of their fire suppression
services. So that seemed to be the consistent message that 1 would hear as I would have
those conversations as to why they moved.
MAGAZINE: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: Excuse me. I'm sorry. We can circle back to this, but do you have any
knowledge about how well they're doing? If you were doing analysis of these cities and
towns that didn't have master contracts, do you have any sense as to how they're doing,
whether or not some are failing, whether or not -- is there a personnel problem?
HAIGH: I would say for those that I know in that list -- some of them were picked up
and transitioned over to the city of Phoenix, as an example. The biggest transfer is
Scottsdale, who had been a -- they had been, in essence, the gold standard for Rural
Metro services, and Scottsdale transitioned away from that and created their own fire
department. So of the departments that I'm aware of, 1 believe they're doing quite well.
I've not heard of, or nor did I have -- in any conversations that 1 had with the various fire
service entities, no one said to me, hey, they moved away and it was a disaster, and they
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shouldn't have made that transition.
So I think to answer your question the best I can without knowing specifics, I think it's
going well. And I would also say that probably, in my estimation, the reason that some
of these transitions are going well is because of the level of professionalism of the fire
service in the Phoenix area. Phoenix area is -- fire service is different than an awful lot of
areas throughout the U.S. And I would say. if you had to pick a overall area of the
country that provides outstanding services that utilizes the and meets the national
standards and really takes into account what's the best practices for providing fire
suppression services, the Phoenix metro area has got to be -- has probably got to be
number one on that list.
So I would say probably the reason that there aren't issues is just because of the level of
professionalism that exists in this area. If you rolled that out to another part of the
country, I'm not exactly sure that I could say that, based on what my experience is with
them.
FRIEDEL• Can I ask you a follow-up question to that?
HAIGH: Yes. sir.
FRIEDEL• So with all these towns and cities that left Rural Metro, did you find that their
level of professionalism is because they took on those employees that were existing there
already, or did they go out and bring in all new staff? Do you have any comment on that?
HAIGH: I don't know that I can speak for all of the communities. This is what 1 was told
in my interviews. The majority -- 1 believe that to be true when 1 say the majority. The
majority that made a transition did their absolute best to absorb the employees that had
been part of the Rural Metro contract into their new organization. I don't know that
occurred in every instance, but from what I was told, that was an effort that was put
forward. I was told repeatedly that the employees that work in these contracts that are
Rural Metro employees are very, very quality employees. very dedicated to their
communities, and that they just happen to work for a private entity comparatively to a
municipality. But at no point and in no conversation with any of the fire service
leadership I spoke with was there any comments as it relates to, yeah, the Rural Metro
folks are just not up to the standard that we would require. I didn't hear that all. There
was conversation about they don't go through the same fire academy that we do. They're
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missing some base standards educationally that we would have if they were part of the
Auto Aid System, but the quality of the staff I heard nothing. Yes, sir.
So as indicated, primary reason, local control; that's what I heard repeatedly. The second
thing I heard was the desire to be part of the Automatic Aid System. And that's a major
issue here in the Phoenix area, and I'll talk a little bit more about what that is.
Rural Metro is not able to be part of the Automatic Aid System, whether that be a
politically driven situation where it was made a decision that Rural Metro wasn't going to
be part of that, I can't speak to that. I just know that under the standards as it relates to
the Regional Automatic Aid System right now, Rural Metro is not admitted.
And I heard also the situation, and I actually pulled the section out of your contract,
ARTICLE I, Section 1.6, Subsection E, that there are times that the assigned Rural Metro
fire chief gets caught in the middle. It's a situation of you really can't serve two bosses
well, and you've got a boss on the Rural Metro side, and you've got a town manger that
you're reporting to, and sometimes the fire chief is trying to carefully navigate a very fine
line there. And that can lead to some real challenges. So if there was, I would say,
overall three things that 1 heard as to why the decisions were made to move away, that
would be the three that were discussed repeatedly with the folks 1 talked to .
So let's talk a little bit about these standards and what they are and how they apply and do
they apply and do you care about them or do you not care about them? Where are we at?
So 1 want to look at the NFPA standards, and I want to talk about the Regional Automatic
Aid System to try and clarify what that is.
When we talk about assistance being provided to a fire department, what you'll hear on a
national level is assistance falls into two categories; it's either Mutual Aid or it's
Automatic Aid. Those are the two key areas. Mutual Aid is not automatic. Mutual Aid
is, in essence, and ad hoc request for assistance. So if the town of Fountain Hills fire
department was to respond to an incident this evening and they needed additional fire
resources, they would request Mutual Aid. They would call their dispatch center and say
1 need an additional engine, 1 need additional two engines, I need an additional ladder.
Whatever those would be, that would be then routed from Rural Metro's dispatch center
to the appropriate dispatch center, and then they would send the assets that would be
required.
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The key with Mutual Aid is that you've got assets coming and they're -- especially here in
the Phoenix area, they're going to be good, they're going to show up and their do good
work, and they're going to operate at a very professional level. The problem is there's a
delay. And that's what Automatic Aid is designed to remedy.
The Automatic Aid system here in the Phoenix Valley came about in 1976 — is when it
started getting put together. And I remember a conversation with a late Chief Alan
Brunacini from Phoenix one day. We were talking about -- he and I were talking about
this very issue, and he said, our position was just send the closest asset. We're not
interested in what the name is on the door. We're not interested in any of the specifics as
to, you know, what color the fire truck is or what hose load they have on the back of it;
send the closest asset. And that was I guess the building block in which the Automatic
Aid System was built.
I will say to you, I come from the Chicago metro area, and we operate under what we call
the MABAS, Mutual Aid Box Alarm System. It is built off of the Automatic Aid System
that exists here in the Phoenix area. I will tell you as good as -- they may take away my
Chicago metro, you know, ID card after I make this statement. But as good as we think
our system is, it pales in comparison to the Automatic Aid System that's in this area. The
true gold standard of how you do this is right here. And so a lot of communities, when
they looked at this issue of do we leave the contract relationship and go to creating our
own organization or marrying in and doing a contract with another municipal entity, a lot
of it was driven by this Automatic Aid System and what it does.
Couple key aspects you need to understand about the Automatic Aid System. One, it's a
shared communication system, so there's no transfer of calls back and forth. That's going
to speed up the overall process and aligns with one of those NFPA standards. The
thought process is, is that any asset that is owned by one of the member agencies in
essence becomes the asset of every other connnunity, which is a major helpful
component when you look at really technical and expensive things like HAZMAT teams
and technical rescue teams and swill water and mountain search and rescue and things
like that. You rely on each other, and that's able to, you know, bring a high level of
service and quality to your communities without you having to have those teams on your
own, which is beneficial.
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MAGAZINE: And --
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: What's the prevalence of the Automatic Aid Systems in this metropolitan
area? In other words, do all the communities belong to that? In other words, if you don't
have that many belonging to it, it doesn't do you any good.
HAIGH: I would say -- I don't have the specific number off the top of my head. I would
say that it is almost 100%. It's not. There are a couple communities that are outside. I'd
have to pull my map out and be able to count them for you. There's not many. Almost
everybody is within the Auto Aid System.
MAGAZINE: Okay.
HAIGH: A couple other hallmarks, I believe, of the system is shared standard operating
procedures. Everybody plays off the same sheet of music; everybody plays off the same
rules. They're trained to those minimum standards, and they continue to train throughout
on those minimum standards. One of the -- I guess as one of the most discussed topics
within the standard is this compliance with NFPA 1710. And NFPA 1710 is a standard
as it relates to staffing and deployment, how many folks do you need based on what it is
that you're going to go to. And the Auto Aid communities have set a standard of you
need to have four -person companies. So an engine company is going to have four
personnel on it; a ladder company's going to have four personnel on it. And the theory
behind that is that when those companies pull up on the scene, regardless of whether it's a
Scottsdale unit, a Fountain Hills unit, a Phoenix unit, a Tempe unit, an engine is an
engine, a ladder is a ladder. And you can -- when you put your personnel to work, they
have all trained to the exact same standard and there's going to be the same number of
folks on board to go about doing the job.
That's one of the challenges as it relates to the conversation that is in front of you is that
under the Rural Metro contract you're not running four -person staffing. You're running
three personnel per engine, three personnel per ladder comparatively to the four that's
required under the Auto Aid System. And you need conversion, and you'll see some
numbers shortly. Any conversation that you would want to make where you would be
part of Auto Aid, you would need to bring your staffing up to that level, which is going to
have an increased cost associated with it. And we'll try and show you some of those
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numbers.
SCHARNOW: Craig?
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
SCHARNOW: So I was told today that -- and maybe it's a different configuration, but
that we're running one station three and another station five, you know, so it equals eight,
but it's just a little different configuration.
HAIGH: Well, as I understand what you've got going on, is you've got three on the
engine at one station, you've got three on the engine at the other station, and you've got
two on your ladder tender. So if you would shut down your ladder tender and you put
four on your engines, well, then you would meet the Auto Aid -- or I should say -- you
would meet your four -person standard. That's not going to get you in Auto Aid, as I
understand it, because Rural Metro's not allowed to enter into that. But I think that adds
up to the numbers that you were just speaking of.
MAYOR DICKEY: I would agree that that was my understanding, was that we were
considered four -person staffing. So we might have to look a little bit more into that.
HAIGH: Yeah. How they're moved around and deployed once you get them in the fire
station, that would Chief Ott's area of expertise, and I'm certain would be able to give you
the specifics on all of that.
So let's look at the two NFPA standards. Does Auto Aid make sense to you? All right.
let's look --
MAYOR DICKEY: That --
HAIGH: -- at the --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- does make sense. Ijust wanted to bring up the Mutual Aid aspect
of it, that recently the city of Scottsdale decided not to have Mutual Aid anymore with
Rural Metro, and Scottsdale's pretty close to us. So I think that was something that
affected us.
HAIGH: I think you're right, Mayor. It had occurred as 1 was working on the project and
meeting with the chief of Scottsdale, the decision it made for Scottsdale to end Mutual
Aid response with Rural Metro. Certainly, they have that. That's well within purview to
do that, which then puts you in a situation of, if you call for Mutual Aid from Scottsdale,
under the standard that was adopted, they're going to turn down that response for Mutual
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Aid. Now, whether that occurs or whether that doesn't occur, and what's on fire and is
there life safety involved, and all of that stuff is probably going to get figured out in the
heat of the moment, and they're going to respond. But by what was adopted at the
request of Chief Shannon, by the city of Scottsdale is that they would end that contract
with Rural Metro, which then puts you in a position of your Mutual Aid assets that are
coming to you are Rural Metro assets from a distance, and I've got some numbers to
show you on that here in a second.
MAYOR DICKEY: And we don't use it a lot, but it's (indiscernible).
HAIGH: Yeah. I think when you look at the NFPA 1710, which is probably the best
analysis as to what you actually need to deploy at an incident scene based on a type of
structure, you're going to have a tough time amassing those numbers based on not being
able to get folks through Mutual Aid. And I'll take you through that, and I've got it
broken out so I'll try and show you exactly, and hopefully 1 can help or we can try and
manage that a little bit.
SPELICH: Chief, let me ask you. Is the Fort McDowell fire department and the Rio
Tonaverde [sic] fire department, are they a part of Mutual Aid or are they part of the --
HAIGH: 1 believe both of those are Mutual Aid, but when I flip over -- I've got them
detailed in my chart, so it'll help me remember --
SPELICH: Okay. Because I was --
HAIGH: -- both of them.
SPELICH: Because I was under the impression we get a lot of help from both of those
agencies; we don't get anything from Scottsdale.
HAIGH: Nothing from -- under the new standards, Scottsdale's not going to send you
anything.
SPELICH: I thought before they really didn't send us much.
HAIGH: I can't speak to that.
MILLER: We--
HAIGH: 1 don't know.
MILLER: We didn't take advantage, but we had a incident recently -- you're right; we
don't really take advantage of it too often. But we had a rescue where at the Sanitary
District, actually there somebody that fell in to one of those -- I don't know what you call
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it -- silos, or whatever they are. And we didn't have the proper equipment or rescue staff,
and so we were able to pull them in. Now, that as while we were still having Mutual Aid
between Rural Metro and Scottsdale. But you're absolutely right. It doesn't happen, but
it does happen on occasion.
I believe, for instance, when we had, you know, like major events here in town, like when
we had the Trump rally several years ago, we had a lot of regional assistance here both
with police and fire. And so Scottsdale actually was involved in helping with that as
well.
SCHARNOW: 1 had another point too. You know, in your earlier slides with the low
dollar loss, you know, I know that it's a high percentage of all our incident calls are EMS
HAIGH: Yeah.
SCHARNOW: -- you know, lower, you know, versus, you know, actual fires. So I mean
Um sure I know Chief Ott has the number hut I'm just wondering in general, I mean, it's
got to be 80/20 or even high, like 90/10, I would guess.
MILLER: My understanding it's between 85 and 90%, depending on the season; is that
right, Chief? As far as emergency medical to actual fire?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: You're correct.
MILLER: Okay.
SCHARNOW: You know, so I'm just wondering in light of that, when you do this
analysis in terms of meeting this NFPA standard for fire service, if that -- you know, is
that taken into account the EMS side, or the standard's different for each side? I mean,
just --
HAIGH: It's a little bit different, and I didn't analyze your EMS side; that wasn't part of
what we were asked to do. I will tell you that nationally someplace between 70 and 75%
of fire departments to provide any type of EMS service; that's 70 to 75% of what they're
doing is going to be EMS in nature. You guys are a little bit higher than that simply
based on the makeup of your community, but then, you know, the EMS aspect of it
becomes a double-edged sword. You have -- the majority of your work is EMS related,
but when you're using a rescue where you've got cross -trained, dual -role folks where
they're firefighter paramedics, if those folks are managing an EMS call, they're not
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available when you need them on the fire calls. So it ends up reducing your overall
numbers of available fire fighters to respond. So it bolsters in some ways, and yet in
some ways it can be a challenge for us as were rolling out those dual -role scenarios.
SCH ARNOW: I mean, I guess I'm wondering, I mean, there's obviously an issue to be
made for planning and the worst case scenarios and all these weird incidents that we
need, you know, technical support on in terms of rescue and water and you know, this
and that versus just meeting the needs of our community in terms of our makeup and the
percentage of calls, you know. You know, just there's the four engine versus three, and
really what are needs are versus, you know, doomsday scenario. I mean, if Target Center
was on fire, I mean, I think wed get a lot of help and, you know, we're not going to have
26 guys on that scene from Fountain Hills, but yet we're going to meet the need, I would
think. So, you know, I just get kind of caught up between planning for worst case versus
planning for what we need.
HAIGH: Well, and I think your thinking is headed in the right direction. If you look at
what are the key takeaways from the analysis as it relates to the services that are being
provided to your community, you're doing pretty good. And the model that you've got
seems to be keeping those overall numbers low. From the overall complete analysis, if
I'm looking at it from what's the national standards say, or what do you need to be able to
amass in the event that your folks are going to work at a residential structure fire, as an
example, your numbers aren't there. You're below that, and because you don't have
Mutual Aid and you're going to have pull your resources from further away, it's going to
be delayed in being able to get them there.
So when I look at it, and I've tried to look at it as neutral as I can to be able to say, what
are you currently seeing, what are the services that are being provided? Are they doing a
good job for you? I think the answer is yes. Do they meet the national standards? Do
they come into alignment with the number of folks that you're going to need for even a
residential structure fire? No. So you've got -- it's balancing that out, and I think that's
where I've tried to bring you some options to say -- and you're not in a crisis situation --
to say here, Board, take a look and see -- here's the information, take a look and make
some decisions as to what you think is going to be best for you community, and not
necessarily just jump on what everybody else does.
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MAYOR DICKEY: The NFPA standards, 1710 standard, though, includes emergency
medical operation, so it's not just about fire, correct?
HAIGH: It does. And 1 can talk a little bit about some of the specifics on EMS and how
we operate today. So let me take you through these to make sure that we understand
them just a little bit.
And then, Mayor, if you would, make sure I focus on that EMS. Don't let me sidetrack
that because I think we operate a little bit differently today then what we did in just a few
years ago, which 1 think is important for the Board to know.
FRIEDEL. Can I make a comment?
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL. So were not meeting that standard right now and we have a formula that
works for us. Why would we want to increase the cost if we've got a formula that works?
I know the national standards, which we don't qualify for now anyway, right?
HAIGH: Um -hum.
FRIEDEL• So I saw in one of your other slides bringing on additional manpower was
one of the solutions, but if it works for us and we don't have a problem, why would we
want to try and meet something were not qualified for right now anyway?
HAIGH: Well, I think that's the discussion for the Board to look at. That's the analysis
that we tried to provide is to say where are you currently at, what do your numbers look
like, what's the data say, and then what are the national standards. And I think the
conversation is -- and the decision comes from the Board as to say, where do we want to
be on this? And --
FRIEDEL- What's the penalty if we don't meet that national standard? I mean, we don't
have one now, right? Yeah. Okay.
HAIGH: There is no NFPA police out there that is going to come and do something
horrible to you because you don't meet a standard. That does not --
FRIEDEL: All right.
HAIGH: -- exist.
FRIEDEL• Okay. Thank you.
MCMAHON: I have a question. Excuse me. How does that affect the firefighters --
HAIGH: I would say --
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MCMAHON: -- who are dealing with less?
HAIGH: I would say that the biggest challenge as it relates to your personnel by
operating with a minimal standard is you're increasing the risk to them. Yeah. So yes,
ma'am.
Okay. So let's look at NFPA 1221, that's in essence your dispatch standard. And then
we'll look at NFPA 1710, which is your staffing standard.
Your dispatching standard, the functionality that we're ultimately after is that 90% of the
time the standard is, is that you're going to answer the -- the dispatch center is going to
answer the 911 call within 15 seconds 90% of the time. And then once the call is
answered, it's going to be pushed out -- dispatched, in essence -- notification to the
responding entities within a 60-second window. So 15 seconds to get the call, 60 seconds
to push it out. With the Regional Automatic Aid System and a centralized dispatch, that
takes place. The call's going to come in, and it's going to get processed, and it's going to
get pushed out.
Under the standard that you currently have with Rural Metro, within the Rural Metro
contract they're going to meet that standard, and it says right in the contract they're going
to meet that standard. Now, I wasn't able, because of the limitations, to actually get those
numbers to see how they comply, but they in the contract say that they're going to meet
those standards as soon as they receive the transfer from whoever picked up the 911 call.
So you've got a built-in delay, but what that delay is and the length of that, I couldn't tell
you. But I can tell you that Rural Metro's dispatch center is set up to operate so that as
soon as they get the call coming to them, as soon as it's transferred in, they're going to
process it to meet the 1221 standard.
And we've talked through that. Let's move over to 1710 for a second. The 1710 standard
is based on job tasks. And when you read the standard, it has single family dwellings; it's
got open air strip malls; it's got commercial properties; it's got apartments; it's got high-
rises. What I did is I evaluated your community. I went into the NFPA standard and I
pulled out those that are applicable to you, because it doesn't make any sense for us to try
and do an evaluation of your needs based on an NFPA standard for things that you're not
ever going to go to. So the two areas that I focused on is the single family dwelling,
2,000 square foot structures, and the tasks or roles, you can see in that description there,
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the specific number of personnel that are assigned for particular roles. And the number
is -- for a single family dwelling, NFPA standard says we need amass 16 folks on scene
with in a very specific timeframe. And I'll show you that in a second.
The other one I pulled out that focuses on this community is open air strip shopping and
apartment buildings, and specifically three-story garden apartments, things like that. So
those are things that you have here. And for that particular type of structure, the numbers
as it relates to the standard is being able to amass 27 personnel within a specific
timeframe standard. So the rest of them I didn't worry about because they're just not
applicable to you guys.
MAGAZINE: Question.
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: Did you say that the 16 is based upon how many square feet?
HAIGH: 2,000 square feet.
MAGAZINE: A home that's 2,000 square feet?
HAIGH: I'm sorry. That's not correct, what I'm saying to you 2,000 square feet It's a
single family residence in that three bedroom, two bath kind of configuration that most of
your communities are going to see.
MAGAZINE: But what if -- we have a number of homes that are much larger than that.
HAIGH: You --
MAGAZINE• You can go 3,000, 4,000, 8,000. I mean, there are some big homes here.
How does that affect the staffing?
HAIGH: The bigger you get, you're heading more toward a commercial type building for
your overall staffing numbers. So in essence, the bigger the more players you need to be
able effectively manage the incidents.
MAGAZINE: So how do you prepare for something like that? Mutual aid would be one
way.
HAIGH: Mutual aid, Automatic Aid is going to be your key. What a lot of communities
will do, that we talk to, if they've got large residential structures like what you have, is
that they'll increase the response into targeted areas of the amount of assets that are
coming right away based on their Automatic Aid System. So if you get two engines and
a ladder, if you've got large residential pieces of property that you need to protect, maybe
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they'll give you three engines and two ladders. So they'll make that modification based
on what it is they've got specific for their community.
MAGAZINE: When it's called in, how does the dispatcher know how many square feet
it is and how many personnel?
HAIGH: They don't. They don't. So when you build out your response models, your
local fire chief will say, within this geographical area of my community 1 have structures
that are much larger; they're pushing up against what I would see in a commercial square
footage. So what I'm going to do is any response into this geographical area, and it gets
plugged into your computer aided dispatch system, I'm going to increase the overall
assets that are going to respond into that. So it's not a situation where the dispatcher's
making the decision on the fly; it's preprogrammed from leadership at your organization
into the computer -aided dispatch systems.
MAGAZINE: It sounds like you're making a strong case for the computer -aided system,
because otherwise, under our system, what do we do when a 6,000, 7,000 square foot
home is in flames? How would we normally handle that?
HAIGH: Your personnel that are on duty, and your command staff that's coming in from
home, they know the areas in your community; they know target hazards in your
community. I talked to them. They got it; they know where they're going. They would
simply pick up the radio and say, you know, I need two additional assets, or I need three
additional assets. And if they're getting good information that they've actually got a fire
or a major incident, they'd get those assets on the road pretty quickly to you. But it's
going to be -- it's not going to be an automatic scenario; it's going to be a manual scenario
based on your on -duty folks' --
MAGAZINE: And that --
HAIGH: -- a decision -making process.
MAGAZINE' And that can make a big difference in timing.
HAIGH: It's going to make a difference in timing. What that number is and how quickly
that's going to occur, it's going to vary, I think, from officer to officer in your leadership
positions on your apparatus and knowing where it is that they're going.
MAGAZINE: Okay. Thank you.
HAIGH: So if we look at that, if we try and break that down a little bit as it relates time
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that time component, which is one of the major issues as it relates to the NFPA standard,
your first engine company should arrive within 240 seconds, or 4 minutes, 90% of the
time. No problem. You guys are there.
Your second engine company arrive within 360 seconds, or 6 minutes, 90% of the time.
No problem. You're there. You meet that.
Your full initial alarm assignment, so for that residential structure we just talked about,
that 16 — the standard says that you need to have those 16 personnel on scene within 10
minutes and 10 seconds, or 610 seconds, 90% of the time. With not having Auto Aid and
with the Mutual Aid challenges that exist, you're not going to meet that; you're not going
to get them here that quickly. That's just what it boils down to.
MAYOR DICKEY: The other thing to remember is even though we don't know the
amount, the time from dispatch to arrival, but when it comes to that -- there's a little gap
until they get to that.
HAIGH: Absolutely there is. Yes.
So when 1 tried to look at this, and I referenced that I've got a chart that kind of breaks
down your numbers and where your folks are coming from, this was not easy to figure
out. And so what I did is I went in and 1 looked at all of the stations that are near to you,
and the colors -- I used the gold color that you see up there. Those are the ones that are
part of the Regional Automatic Aid System. So Scottsdale's all listed out in that gold
color. For your Mutual Aid, Fort McDowell, Rio Verde, Salt River Stations, they're in
more of the grey so that they're easily identified. And then the Rural Metro is that bolder
green color. 1 tried to match up with the color of their fire trucks, but that's what made
sense in my mind, but I don't know if it does anybody else.
But what I did is I went in and I looked at all of those fire stations, and then I mapped --
using the computer I mapped their miles, and then I mapped travel distance, and
since -- depending on where the incident would be in the town, it would be impossible if I
didn't run, you know, 40 different scenarios. So what I actually used is 1 used this
address as the location in which I wanted to bring them to as my calculator.
So what you sec is if we've got Fort McDowell come and they're coming four and half
miles, as an example; their response time's going to be about nine minutes getting in here
to you. And remember there's going to be a built-in delay through the dispatch center as
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that gets transferred out.
I put in Scottsdale. I couldn't not -- even though they're saying they're not coming, I
couldn't not put their numbers in there. So Station 607, 606 are the two closest, and you
can see those minute configurations that it would take for them to respond in. Any way
you cut this with Mutual Aid being out of the picture, and then applying the overall
national standard to it, your timeframe is just going to be greater than what the standard
rolls out to be. So those are the things that 1 had to compare it overall to.
So I think the key takeaways under this entire thing, the intent of NFPA 1221, which is
the dispatch standard, is not being met due to the call transfer requirements between the
dispatch centers. I think based on, what I know, what I heard as I was wondering around,
I think Rural Metro's getting them pushed out the door as soon as they're getting the call,
which is excellent. It's just that transfer piece that I wasn't able to figure out, and I don't
know what that is.
Two, under the current response model employed by Rural Metro, NFPA 1710 is not
being met related to response times and staffing standards. And we've talked about that
extensively.
If the town discontinues the contract with Rural Metro and worked to comply with
standards required of the Regional Automatic Aid System, the system would help or
allow the town to meet the NFPA 1221, because of the regional dispatch, as well as 1710
standards. Now, I will say to you, you have a couple -- like all of our communities -- so
don't hear me and go, oh, means we got to build another fire station. That is not what I'm
saying to you. But in any community, just based on roadways and hills and things like
that, you're going to have areas of your community that if you said I want to be 100%
compliant within NFPA standard, you're never going to get there unless you have way
more assets then what you have. Every community that I'm aware of is always going to
have little pockets where it's not going to be there. So for me to say to you, hey, join
Auto Aid and ifs going to get you 100% compliance, it would be wrong for me to say
that. It's going to get you close, but it's not going to get you 100%.
MAGAZINE: Question.
HAIGH: Yes, sir.
MAGAZINE: Did you analyze what would happen if there were two fires at the same
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time, one on one side of town, one on another side of town? Doesn't that throw your
numbers out the window?
HAIGH: Ycs. Absolutely ifs going to throw your numbers out. I didn't analyze that. I
can tell you how that would be managed if you're part of Auto Aid, and I could tell you
how it would be managed if you're part of -- or I think 1 can tell you how it'll be managed
using Mutual Aid.
Under Auto Aid, they'd be like, okay, I got another address. I don't care about
jurisdictional boundaries; I don't care what the side of the rig says; I'm just going to send
that -- if it's two engines and a ladder and a chief that's going to the first lire, I'm going to
get two engines, a ladder, and chief going to the second fire regardless what the name is
on the side of the truck. And it's going to happen through the computer -aided dispatch
system right away.
Under the Mutual Aid system, I believe this to be correct, is that whoever the command
officer is from Fountain Hills would say, hey, I got a second structure fire; go ahead and
get me two engines and a ladder. And then dispatch would say, okay, where's my closest
two engines; where's my closest ladder. They're going to reach out to dispatch centers
and get them on the road.
So you're going to get the assets and they're going to come, and based on the quality that
you've got in the area, they're going to show up and do a nice job. There's going to be a
delay. There's just no way to get around that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Isn't the other part of that with Mutual versus Auto is that Auto they
have to treat you like as if you're one of them, whoever them are? And with Mutual
you're actually asking for something and if there was something else going on, then they
could make you go to the next or the next? So it's not like you're part of it if it's Mutual
as much as it is if you're Auto?
HAIGH: That is true. But I will also add to that that sometimes your closest Auto Aid
asset is on another call, and so you're not -- you know, it's going to be, hey, you're not
getting that guy; you're going to get a guy from someplace else. So it rolls both
directions there based on availability and response. The Automatic Aid is just what name
says; it's automatic and it occurs. And I think that's the real key difference between an
Automatic Aid response and a Mutual Aid.
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So all of that said, I think you got six options. And this is where it comes down to the
discussion as to what lays out best for the town and what it is the town wants to do. And
Malayna and I will walk you through the specifics of these.
One is status quo. You can continue to do what is that you're doing, and you saw your
numbers, so what you're doing seems to be working quite effectively.
The first option, or in this I call it option 1, is create a Fountain Hills Municipal fire
department, and if you're going to create your own fire department, which was one of the
things that we were asked to look at, you can either say we're going to meet NFPA 1710
staffing or we can create a Fountain Hills fire department that is not going to meet NFPA
1710 staffing. That would be your call if your decided to do that. If you decide I'm
going to create my own fire department, municipal fire department but we don't want to
meet NFPA staffing, you're not going to get into Auto Aid because you've got to have
some minimum standards to be able to get into the regional Automatic Aid System.
Option 2 is to create a municipal tire department that is compliant in staffing and
response times, and that'll let you into the Automatic Aid. Now ,remember, with each
one of these you're hiring folks, so your overall costs are going up.
Option 3 is to discontinue the contract with Rural Metro and enter into an
intergovernmental agreement with Scottsdale to provide personnel. And the way I look
at that would be you're simply making a trade. So you would be taking Rural Metro folks
off of your rigs and you would enter into an IGA with Scottsdale that you put Scottsdale
folks on your rigs. The only caveat to that would be Scottsdale's not going to play unless
you comply with Auto Aid. Okay?
The fourth option that we looked is to enter into an !GA to merge Fountain Hills fire
services into the city of Scottsdale. So in essence, you guys would stop being providers
at all of fire suppression. in essence give it to Scottsdale and you write them a check for
whatever it is they tell you that it's going to cost on an annual basis. So there would be an
option for you to take a look at.
The fifth option that I was able to take a look at would be to consolidate into the Rio
Verde Fire District. They're the closest fire protection district to you, and so you could
go to their board and ask them to absorb the Fountain Hills area into their fire protection
district. I had a conversation with their fire chief about that very option. He said he
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doesn't think that the board would want to do that, but it would be remiss on my part if 1
didn't say, well, that's an option for you to take a look at and the two political entities
could have some conversations as it relates to that.
And then option 6 would be to request proposals from other providers that are similar to
Rural Metro. There are a couple of them out there across the country. I don't know any
of them super well to be able to say one's going to do that and one's going to do
something different; I just know there are some options that exist.
So when we did our analysis we tried to look big picture, what arc all of the options, and
bring those forward to you. We costed out options 1 through 4; we didn't cost out 5 and
6, but I give you those so that you know that they exist. So with --
Yes, Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: With the Rio Verde one, we'd have a property tax, correct?
HAIGH: Yes, ma'am.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thanks.
HAIGH: So yeah. There'd be a property tax that Rio Verde Fire Protection District
would assess against properties within Fountain Hills for fire suppression.
MCMAHON: I have a question, please. In your options that you went it's a little
complicated, but if you option 1, you create a Fountain Hills municipal fire department
and we use the current staffing, eventually that's going to roll over into option number 2
because were going to have a lot more homes and things built here, growth, et cetera.
And if we're going to be in compliance with the Automatic Aid System, we're going to
eventually have to come up to that, correct?
HAIGH: If you're going to come into compliance with Auto Aid, and it's important for
you to be part of Auto Aid, if that's what the --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- if that's what the Council decides, you're ultimately going to end up in that
situation just as you outlined, yes.
MCMAHON: And in doing this, do we keep the current employees? Or I mean, I guess
my question is about the employees and how it's going to adversely affect them as well,
included in these options.
HAIGH: I don't know that 1 can speak to that specifically.
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MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: And I don't think it would necessarily be appropriate for me to speak to that.
MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: I will say that my understanding when other communities -- the majority of the
other communities, and I believe this to be true -- maybe I'm not complete on this, but I
believe this to be true. When the majority of the other communities made the decision to
move away from Rural Metro and create their own municipal departments, it's my
understanding that the vast majority of those Rural Metro employees were pulled into
employment --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- of the new employer. That's what I believe to --
MCMAHON: Right. And --
HAIGH: -- be fact.
MCMAHON: And in doing that, we would have more control of our fire department
versus if we merged with Scottsdale. 1 mean, it would be like we would relinquish any
control as well as the current employees and --
HAIGH: I --
MCMAHON: -- other things.
HAIGH: I think you've hit it right on the head. Yes, ma'am.
MCMAHON: And it's not that much of a cost savings, is it?
HAIGH: Well, we've got -- we'll take you through this, but then on page -- I wrote it on
my hand here -- page 37 --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: -- on page 37 you've got a side -by -side.
MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: And you can see it exactly, and we can kind of dig into some of those. You've
got it. That's the one. That's the one that makes the most sense to me where I can see
them side by side.
MAGAZINE: Were the options that you put in front of us -- other than increased cost for
staffing, do any of the options require additional costs?
HAIGH: Yes. Staffing is going to be a key. You're going to have to make some
_.... _..... _.,f5.
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modifications as it relates to some support staff as it relates to, like, HR and finance and
administrative assistants and things like that that Rural Metro currently provides to you as
part of your contract, and then you're going to have to pay for dispatch, which is not
cheap. But you'd have to pay for one of the regional dispatch centers. And the numbers
that we've got, we've tried to build of that in so you can -- that page 37 that you just
waved at me, it's to the best of our knowledge at the moment, in kind of the crazy
economy we've got going on, we think it's all in there. We did our best to get it in there.
MCMAHON: Okay. Also --
HAIGH: And --
MCMAHON: -- I forgot to ask. We're currently, as you say, in a contract with Rural
Metro.
HAIGH: Yes, ma'am.
MCMAHON: Flow would you unwind that? I mean, what would, like, be the time
constraints, do you think? Do you get a sense that they'd be willing, or do you get a sense
eventually dump us, or what?
HAIGH: Well --
MCMAHON: Your crystal ball is needed.
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: One, I don't think they would necessarily be in favor of saying, I think you guys
should create your own fire department and end the contract with us. I don't think from a
business perspective that's where they're at. Two, I can only go back to the decision that
they ended the contract with Scottsdale and put them in a difficult position. But I will
also say I've not had any conversations in any of the research that we've put into this
where anyone from Rural Metro said, yeah, well just shut this down and end this
contract. So I don't think you're in an emergency. I don't think you're in a panic scenario.
I think you've got time to really evaluate what you want to do.
MCMAHON: Okay.
HAIGH: And not to mention the fact you've got pretty services right now. And so take
your time and digest this, would be my recommendation, and say, okay, let's see what's
going to really be best for our community, and then make some decisions from there.
MCMAHON: Do you know how long the contract is left or any of you know?
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ARNSON: Oh. I don't know how long is left on the contract. I do know the notice the
period, but I don't know how long is left.
MAYOR DICKEY: '23.
MILLER: We've got some time left, quite a bit.
MCMAHON: Okay.
MILLER: We just basically reupped it a few years ago, so I believe we have five or
more years left.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, it was a five year contact [sic] --
MILLER: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- contract in'17 to'18, so it's going to end '22 to '23, but then we
can renew --
MILLER: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- for two years. So we have at least until June.
MCMAHON: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: But we're supposed to have a year notice too if we do anything.
MCMAHON: Okay.
ARNSON: So Mayor, you're saying there's a two year renewal period --
MCMAHON: If we renew.
ARNSON: -- followed -- yeah -- if we decide --
MAYOR DICKEY: But the five years is up --
ARNSON: Got it.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- '22P23, I think.
HAIGH: The language that is in your contract, if I remember correctly --
MAYOR DICKEY: Um -hum.
HAIGH: -- is that you need to give Rural Metro one --
MAYOR DICKEY: A year notice.
HAIGH: -- year --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
HAIGH: -- notice if you're going to end it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
HAIGH: They have to give you two years' notice if they're going to end it, I believe is
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what the contract says.
MAYOR DICKEY: It does.
MCMAHON: So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor? Oh.
MCMAHON: So when we come up to expiration, they might be giving us notice two
years or what --
HAIGH: Yeah. I --
MCMAHON: You never know, right?
HAIGH: 1 can't --
MCMAHON: Because you're saying that they're not --
HAIGH: I can't speak to that either way.
MCMAHON: I know.
HAIGH: I just know I'm not --
MCMAHON: But they're not --
HAIGH: Nobody has said that in any of the --
MCMAHON: -- adding master contracts, so I mean, it's really something we do have to
look at.
HAIGH: I think you need to look at it.
MCMAHON: Yeah.
HAIGH: I think the Council was very wise --
MCMAHON: Um -hum.
HAIGH: -- to look at this and analyze this.
MCMAHON: Um -hum.
HAIGH: And I think you were very wise to get ahead of it before you might potentially
have a problem.
MCMAHON: Um -hum.
HAIGH: Because you don't have one right now. You've got time. If you were to create
your own fire department, if you started today, I bet you're two years before --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- you'd get it --
MCMAHON: Transition time.
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HAIGH: -- before you'd get it built and transitioned. And I mean, there's --
MCMAHON: Trained --
HAIGH: It's not just a --
MCMAHON: -- and everything.
HAIGH: -- [snap] we flip the switch and all of a sudden --
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: -- we're off and running.
MCMAHON: Right.
HAIGH: So taking a look at it now, figuring out -- trying to figure out what's hest, I
think, is very wise.
MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
FRIEDEL: Couple of points. In none of your examples did you include the use of
volunteer firefighters. I came from a town where we were 100% volunteer.
HAIGH: Right.
FRIEDEL: And it worked extremely well. So I'd like to see something or some thoughts
on what that would do for manpower to help us get to the next level. And I'm thinking,
could we not combine some of our training efforts with Scottsdale and maybe some of
the other fire departments around here? Maybe we have an IGA that allows us to train
our firefighters with them; that's a second thing. And then the third thing, for HR and
administrative staff, maybe some of that we can do in-house now with our current staff.
It's a possibility, I guess. And you mentioned that Rural Metro's handling most of that
now.
HAIGH: Malayna can speak to the specifics on the HR issue.
FRIEDEL• So I'm wondering if there might be some duplication if we make them town
employees anyway that we can handle right through our resources that we have on staff
right now.
HAIGH: Yeah. I'll let Malayna speak to that HR issue. And 1 think we've got that
coming up in one of our options here as we delve down into it a little bit. So I would ask
if I could pause on that one for just a minute. As it relates to relationships with the
neighbors as it relates to training and things like that, there very well may be options, and
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that would need to be reach out to and see what it is that you can do. There may be
options. I didn't look at that, so I don't want to overstretch what it is that I'm saying.
After our conversation I did look at the volunteer component of it. Two things that -- and
the reason that I didn't pull any volunteer component into this aspect of it. One, volunteer
fire services is struggling today. It's a real challenge. And keep in mind that there's a 1.3
million firefighters in the U.S.; two-thirds of those are volunteers. I'm not sure five years
from now what that number's going to look like because the volunteer ranks are really,
really struggling, to be able to get volunteers, bring them in, and meet the overall training
standards that are required to be able function effectively.
Glen Ellyn, the community you and I spoke about, I have tremendous respect for that
organization, and they've been doing it for a long time and seem to be meeting -- they
seem to -- well, as of Friday when I spoke to Chief Clark, they're doing a pretty nice job
and still meeting the standards, but they're beginning to struggle. So I didn't build in a
volunteer component just because I think you'd have some challenges in making that
work. Even though you have a good volunteer base here in the community, probably
better than most communities, I think you'd have a little bit of trouble there. And two, I
didn't look at the volunteer component because if you want to bring them in and increase
your overall staffing on the apparatus, which would be fantastic, I'm not sure Auto Aid
would count it and let you in even if those volunteers were part of your overall municipal
fire department conversion. And I didn't specifically ask that question, but my gut tells
me they probably wouldn't.
MILLER: I'm familiar with the Vice Mayor's concept of volunteer fire departments, but
what I've seen and what you typically see is that the EMT, or the paramedics, are usually
professional, and in the fire part of it are the volunteers. And so even then they usually
typically pay a stipend. It may not be true volunteer. So it is very challenging to be able
to staff that up. And then also going from -- because the community I worked in
previously as the manger, we were looking at that. We had a community next door that
was bigger and larger, and they were volunteer. And we had been -- for like 30 years we
had professional. But our residents, they were just not happy about the discussion even
looking at it because they felt like they were getting a high level of service and they were
willing to pay for it. And so it's something we would have to be very careful and
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cautious about. Plus in the Valley here we just don't really have, you know, volunteers
typically doing that. So it's the model in this particular region that doesn't necessarily
exist. It's not to say it couldn't, but I think it would be very challenging. And then we
also have an aging community, and so 1 think that's another thing that we're facing as
well.
SPELICH: I think that firefighting and police work is a young man's game. And not to
cast any dispersions on any resident, but I think the majority of the residents have
probably passed their prime in firefighting age and requirements. So I don't think that --
yeah. And I'm looking at the two guys with their uniforms on in the hack too.
[LAUGHTER]
SPELICH: That includes them also. So that's why you're chiefs and you're not dragging
a hose off a truck. So I think that train left the station. It's a great idea, I'm all about
saving money, but I don't foresee -- manning the community center and telling people
what room to go to is a little different then getting on a hook and ladder. So --
HAIGH: I'll just move to the next slide.
[LAUGHTER]
MAYOR DICKEY: Probably wise.
HAIGH: So what we've got -- and don't get wrapped up in looking at these little
numbers. The side -by -side is what we want to see. Looking at the status quo, Malayna
and I, we know that you've got build in 3% multiplier. I just took a 3% multiplier and ran
it straight acrossed [sic]. So you can see and -- well, I can't see it but in --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: -- in 32-33 is going to cost -- keep doing what you're doing, you're going to be
about $5.6 million. So that's how that lays out.
These other ones get a little bit more complicated. When you get into option 1, we tried
to build it out on a ten-year projection as indicated, but you're losing some stuff when you
decide you're going to create your own and go away from Rural Metro. They've got
resources they're giving you that you don't maybe necessarily know you got. So those
numbers have got be plugged in there.
So the option 1 is you create a municipal department and you don't mess with the NFPA
staffing. We're projecting that you're going to need 34 full-time employees to make that
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happen, which would be your fire chief. your fire marshal; you need an administrative
assistant over there at the fire house. I plugged in -- and Rural Metro does the training
for you, at least the base training, so I plugged training officer for you that you're going to
need to keep your people where they need to be. And then your captains, engineers, and
firefighter paramedics, so that gets you to 34.
One of the things that become a real challenge when we start to take a look this is that
you don't have a backfill pool, and you're going to have to create a backfill pool. Now,
what I mean by that is today, and as I understand the scenario, is that if you have a fire
fighter off on vacation -- you have a minimum set standard of how many folks you've
gotta have on duty here. If you have a firelighter that's off on vacation, Rural Metro from
their -- I'm just going to call it a replacement pool. I'm sure it's got some fancier name
than that, but I'm going to call it a replacement pool. They'll give you one of their
personnel that'll be detailed here to Fountain Hills to be able to backfill that position and
ensure that you're going to be at the appropriate staffing level.
Did 1 get that right?
OTT: Yeah. No name. No fancy name, but yeah.
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: There's no fancy name other than replacement pool?
OTT: No fancy name.
HAIGH: Well, okay. If you got somebody that calls in sick, same scenario. If you do
away with those guys, you have to have your own replacements or you're going to be
paying overtime. So based on my calculations as it relates to how many folks are you
going to need to have, you're going to need two replacements per shift to be able to run
your minimum staffing level that you've got. So if I want to have two three -person
engines and a two -person rescue and a two -person ladder tender, you're going to need
two additional staff per 24-hour shill so that you've got two folks off that are on some
type of leave, these folks are going to fill in and back fill to ensure that you're going to
maintain your minimum staffing.
Yes, sir.
FRIEDEL: Isn't that pool disappearing, though? Where are they pulling these people
from if everybody's leaving them?
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HAIGH: I don't have any answer to that. I know that pool of those personnel are where
the replacements come in to fill your vacation and leave time and sick leave now. I know
there's some overtime plugged in there, and if you can't get backfill staff you're going to
have to pay overtime for it, and I know that they're doing some of that stuff as well, just
as you would in the event that you don't have enough backfill to be able to cover the
vacancies. But just based on numbers you're going to need six additional. I can just tell
you that 100% for sure.
And then there's going to be some additional administrative aspects of the organization
that you're going to need to do be able to handle these new employees and the fire
department that you've got.
So what I'm going to do -- I've talked to you a lot. I'm going to go over here and sit
down, and I'm going to hand it to Malayna, and she's going to tell you about those other
areas that you need to have, and then we can start breaking down some of the numbers
for you.
You ready?
MAES: Yeah. I was thinking you're going to need a break here pretty soon. All right.
HAIGH: They don't ask hard questions.
MAES: No. Not at all. You guys have been taking it easy on him tonight.
So probably there's no -- most of you are probably wondering, okay, well, why did we
have HR involved in this process, right? But at the end of the day you have your
building, or you have your brick and mortar, you have your apparatus, but what we have
to talk about now is that which is going to be a little bit more fluid in the discussion, and
that's going to be your human capital, because you cannot be providing these programs
and services if you don't have the employees to be able to do that.
And so what we did was we took a look at-- I call it the life cycle of the employee, okay?
So from the time that you are applying to the time that an individual is leaving
employment. you know, what are all of those financial needs that the town has to
consider. And the very first thing that came to mind -- well, not the very first thing, but
one of the -- initially in having conversations with your administration was how is the
town currently set up in terms of administration. Because what were talking about here
is if there's going to be any possibility that you are going to create your own municipal
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department, we're now suddenly talking about that you're going to bringing on 30-plus
new employees and is your internal services set up to be able to take on this
responsibility? So one of the areas that I started taking a look at is how are you handling
your human resources, how are you handling your payroll, how are you handling your
recruitment, and what type of IT services. So how are you going to, as a town, internally
support the lire department, because right now all of that is being done through Rural
Metro.
So what you have right now -- you're a small organization; you have about 80 employees.
Arid you know, in the world of HR, what we take a look at, there's a standard that we use,
and it's 1.4 HR professionals to about every 100 employees. 1 do not care if those
employees are part-time, full-time, or seasonal, because if you ask any HR person they
will tell you that they take up equal amount of work. And so what you have right now at
the town, or at least at the time that we were developing these numbers, is you have an
administrative services manager who he is the individual that is doing your HR along
with -- he has other responsibilities. And so if you're going to be bringing on 30-some-
plus individuals to start your own department, you're going to need to have some
additional support. You're going to need to have a dedicated HR individual for the town.
And, you know, there could be discussions about whether or not the employees from
Rural Metro arc going to come work for the town of Fountain Hills, but there's absolutely
no guarantee that that's going to happen. And given what the turnover is right now in
public sector -- and 1 can rattle off all of the statistics for you, that you have your tenure
within an organization on average nationally is about six and half years and declining,
and you have one in five public sector employees who have just said that 1 have had
enough because of -- you know, one reason or another, they're simply just walking away
from municipal government. And because of that you are always going to have turnover
and you're going to be constantly filling those positions. And so because of it, you will
need to have -- you are going to need to have additional HR support.
There's more involved with it than just simply, you know, placing your ads; there is a
level of complexity that comes with the fire services, and -- you know, all the way from
how are you going to payroll because these are 24-hour shifts. These are not eight -hour
shifts Monday through Friday, and so your payroll set up is completely different, your
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benefit structure is going to have to be different, and in reality your neighbors are
somewhat -- they're under collective bargaining agreements. And so they're -- you know,
whether or not that were to occur here at the town of Fountain Hills, there's going to be
additional HR items that you are going to have to consider.
So within the recommendations I do have one HR generalist that has been included to
help with not only the fire department, but probably once you start adding those
additional personnel to the town overall, you're probably going to find that just the town
in general is going to need that extra support.
The other area that I took a look at then is your IT services because at the time you have a
.5, and I do believe that there was some discussion about whether or not the position
might become full-time. But given that you're going to have that additional number of
users, you're going to have new software systems and then continued maintenance of
effort; the organization is likely going to need some additional IT resources, and so we
built into that an additional .5 FTE so that you have a total of -- I think you would have
then two IT individuals within the town.
The last item is the administrative support for the department. Again, this is some --
these are the areas that you don't even know are happening because Rural Metro is
providing all of that administrative assistance. There is a lot of documentation that has to
be had on training and schedules and time off and reports that have to be run, and so it is
not uncommon that an organization, a department of that size, is going to need to have a
full-time administrative assistant.
All right. Some other items that we talked about here that Craig had initially talked about
is the training officer position. And this goes to when we start talking about -- there was
some discussion of can we do training; can we, you know, share in some of those
opportunities. Well, you know, in the world of fire -- and I'm not fire person; I'm an HR
person, okay? So don't ask me about hoses or anything like that; I wouldn't be able to
answer any of those questions. But having a training officer to make sure that all of the
education and the ongoing training for your department is going to be a necessity. So
that was also built in. Craig might have some additional information on that when he
gets back up to the podium.
One of the other items that 1 spent time looking at is, you know, some of these
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unintended consequences that come with bringing a fire department in. And first and
foremost, you know, that 1 talked with your municipal -- your risk retention pool
individual is what's going to happen with your workers' comp claims, because the town
should expect that your workers' comp experience, it's going to increase. Just by the
nature of the work that is being performed, that is going to be a given. And what happens
is, on an annual basis, there's going to be an audit. That audit then, you know, compares
with your your payroll is and how many employees and how much your payroll is for
firefighters versus how much your payroll is for administrative assistants. And on an
annual basis, then, those numbers are adjusted based upon actuarial audits that occur.
And so what you're going to find here is that -- excuse me.
We talked about if someone's going to get a dry mouth, it's going to be me.
So what you're going to find is that you're workers' comp dollars, just your premiums on
an annual basis, because the risk for your firefighters, it's going to go up, so you're going
to be paying more for that workers' comp coverage.
The other thing that you are going to be experiencing now is there is a new Senate bill,
the 2021 law that was passed here in the state of Arizona, and it is called presumptive
cancer law. This is very common in many states. It's getting to be more and more
common. Now, what this means is that if you have a particular profession and you have
diagnosis, and those are listed diagnoses, that no longer does that employee have to fight
to confirm that they have that diagnosis because of their job. It is now going to be
presumed. So if they have a specific diagnosis and they were a firefighter for you, then
your workers' compensation claims -- that is going to be covered now. And your risk
retention pool company, they have been planning for this in terms of premiums. They
know that the claims are going to start going up in this particular area. They said that
they've already been experiencing this. But it's one of these areas that we can't
necessarily give you a finite number of what's going to happen because they just don't
know the types of claims -- they are expecting that the claims are going to go up, but they
don't know what that total cost is going to be.
So they provided us with an estimate based upon the expected payroll; that expected
payroll has been broken out into who's in lire service versus who's administrative. But
please know that every year when you're going through your workers' comp audit and
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those numbers are changing and they're looking at your claims, that workers' comp --
your experience is going to cause your insurance rates to go up. And that is not
something that we can necessarily predict for you long into the future.
But with that said, then -- and I'm going to go back to the training officer -- there are, you
know, this is really why having training officers is important, because they're going to
make sure that your people arc trained according to, you know, whatever processes that
are in place in fire service to make sure that those individuals are safe. And, you know,
so we can't really -- 1 don't want to say put a dollar value on an individual's life, but that's
what the training officer is going to be there for.
There's going to be a need for the organization to make sure that you have wellness
testing, risk management services, and all of those services are likely going to be coming
through your HR department. This is not only just your annual testing to make sure that
your individuals are fit and that they can wear their respiratory masks. but it's also their
mental health wellness and making sure that people are okay after they have had
responded to specific events. 1 do know that your risk retention pool company, they have
started working on a program for your law enforcement and for your first responders to
make sure that there's additional services that are provided to those individuals just for
the mental health purposes, but in our recommendations we've also then included
additional EAP services. so on and so forth. Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: I just wanted to ask a question. You might not know this, but is this
information one of the things you were unable to find out about Rural Metro, how do
they offer these kind of things to their employees. The mental health -- obviously, they're
going to have to look at the cancer bill that passed. But all of these other services that the
firefighters and such that you're discussing, do we know if they get those now?
MAES: I do not know.
HAIGH: I did not ask those questions, ma'am.
MAES: No.
HAIGH: So I don't know.
MAES: No. I would say that if -- from my perspective though, from a best practices
standpoint, human resources. what you want to do is you want to do what you can do for
retention of your personnel. And offering wellness services and EAP services, mental
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health services would be a best practice that we would want all employers to be offering.
There's going to have to be a heightened level of EAP for anyone who is in that first
response group because they go above and beyond, and they respond to events that
nonnal, everyday civilians wouldn't necessarily come into contact --
MAYOR DICKEY: Don't --
MAES: -- with.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Don't misunderstand me.
MAES: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm not saying they shouldn't get it. I'm saying if we're going to be
looking at costs --
MAES: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and comparisons --
MAES: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and to Peggy's point, you know, the staffs well-being --
MAES: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- then if they're not doing this now, then this change could be a
benefit to them.
MAES: And so that was an area that we have gone in and added. And so I think just in
totality, you know, this is an area with the costing - I have given you an estimate that
came from AMRRP, but we don't know what your future holds in that particular area.
This is a grey area, and we have provided -- 1 put a 5% adjustment on an annual basis to
these numbers, but I don't know that 5°/ is going to be enough going forward in the
future. Okay.
All right. Option 2.
Do you want to talk at all or do you want me to do it?
HAIGH: You can keep going.
MAES: All right.
[LAUGHTER]
MAES: Option 2. Now, this is to get you to the NFPA standard, which now means that
there needs to be additional firefighter paramedics added to be able to hit the minimum
standard. And again, going back to what Craig talked about, the backtill pool, now
_._,...._...._._.. .,_-.._... .,......,........_._._..-..._...__..._..._.._.Pagg�f51
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because you have additional individuals on the schedule and in order to cover those
absences, whether it's sick time, vacation, a vacancy, yeah, whatever it may be, you now
are going to need an additional nine staff in order to help fill your shifts.
One of the areas that is going to be important for you and is included in the costing is
making sure that people get adequate time off, and so we did incorporate into the budget
some overtime, knowing that you are not likely going to be able to fill all of your
positions all at once and there's going to be times when overtime is just going be
necessary. From a best practices standpoint and making sure the employees have a
balance, a work/life balance for their time off, we want to make sure that your
employees -- they have the time available to take time off so you don't have burnout and
they don't start experiencing some other personal circumstances that are going to bleed
into their performance at work. Okay.
Any questions on option 2? I breezed over that one.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think when we --
MAES: I think you got it.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- when we talk about the side -by -side I'll have some questions.
MAES: Okay. Do you want to go right to the side -by -side or do we want to talk option
3?
HAIGH: Option 3 and option 4 --
MAES: Yeah.
HAIGH: -- are simply the numbers associated if you said, let's contract with an IGA with
Scottsdale.
MAES: Yep.
HAIGH: So I'd say let's just go to the side -by -side, and then we'll see exactly where
we're at.
MAES: Okay. There we go. So right now your contract with Rural Metro is, I'm just
going to round it, $4.3 million. And if you were to look at option 1, which is creating a
town department at the current staffing level, it is an increase of just over $ l million.
Part of that, and you'll see in the breakdown what we have is department -- we'll have
department costing; well have overtime; we've got the administrative costing. And then
there's all of these other expenses that you probably don't realize goes into having a fire
._.,.. —
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department, such as your recruiting, your PPE, the cost associated with sending
individuals to training, additional payroll processing costs, you know. that type of thing.
So a plus $1 million.
If you were to go with the higher standard, then, to make sure that you have the Auto Aid
stalling level, that then increases up to just over $6 million, and that is a $1.7 million
difference. Pretty --
Yes, sir.
MAGAZINEInflation.
MAES: Yes.
MAGAZINE: In looking at this, would you -- is it CPI or is it a different kind of
measurement?
MAES: So what we used earlier this year, and this report has been done now for a few
months, we used a 5%. And so right now CPI well over 8%. The wages were calculated
based upon what your area. what your region is paying for like positions. And so based
upon those individuals being under -- let's say, like, collective bargaining agreement, and
those wages are set now for a period of time until those collective bargaining agreements
expire. These wages, you know, are going to be pretty consistent with what you're seeing
in the region. At such time, however, that your neighbors start to make salary
adjustments to better reflect what the current actual market is, you're going to find that,
you know, it's very possible that the 5% that we included may not necessarily keep up
with the inflationary trend. But 5% then -- you know, previous to this year, 5% would
have certainly -- it would've gone above and beyond what you would need for the CPI.
And on average health insurance nationwide has been going up on average about 4% per
year, so I felt 5% was sufficient. But 1 don't have the crystal ball. I wish I did. We'll see
what the end of the year look like. Right?
MAGAZINE: Get a Ouija board.
MAES: Yes. That's exactly it.
FRIEDEL: You may see ten years that 5% will he good.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
FRIEDEL. Do your costs include any maintenance on vehicles or our other
infrastructure?
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HAIGH: Yes. sir. I did my absolute best to try and include that in the overall costs. And
as it relates to inflationary multipliers on equipment and personal protective equipment,
things like that, what I looked at is what is the typical inflationary multiplier on breathing
apparatus. And I think the number on breathing apparatus is 3.5%. It's been pretty
consistent, and that's the number I plugged in. But to Malayna's point, protective
equipment is -- I've always calculated protective equipment -- you know, the fire suits
that in essence were wearing, I've always multiplied them at 15 -- or I'm sorry -- at 5% as
an annual multiplier. So that's how I calculated your numbers. I just heard the other day
that the annual multiplier right now is l5%. So we did our best and tried to break out all
of that stuff, including apparatus maintenance stations, and we tried to use as much as we
could. The message is our numbers today may be a little bit low just because were not
sure exactly where we're going to -- where we're at and where we're going to head.
MAYOR DICKEY: I have a couple question about just the numbers in general. So this
particular side -by -side is basically the first year. The first year of the Rural Metro
contract is the least it's going to be, so that's the smallest amount. Then the option 1 or 2,
those were both the largest amounts; those first years were the largest amount. So I went
out three years just for the heck of it, and the average that it would be higher if we went
with option one was more like $825,000 a year.
The other thing 1 want to mention to your point is that we spend 250, something like that,
per year outside of the contract for fire here. So this amount is a little bit skewed low
because as a entity we spend about $250,000 more than that. So the other part of that is if
we do go beyond the June'23, the 3% is no longer something guaranteed. So if some of
the items that you are talking about are what they're facing, I could see that that might be
something that wouldn't he maintained for those ten years.
So it's not to say there was anything wrong with the way this was looked at, but 1 want to
make sure that we have all the information, you know, and we're just talking numbers.
And if we start talking about the value of making changes versus, you know, some of the
other things that don't have to do with numbers, but just going forward with the money
part, 1 wanted to make that point, that there are some other variables. And there's also
variables, I think, between option 1 and option 2 with an ability of option I to get us into
that Auto Aid if we did some other sort of flexible staffing and other things like that.
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And to your point, the trainer is kind of built in there.
So I think if everybody's looking at a number that is alarming, maybe there's ways to talk
a little bit about that before we talk about some of the more value judgment kind of
things.
HAIGH: If I could add to what your points are, Mayor. You're looking at first year, and
remember there's some startup costs that are associated that, that when you look at --
when you get our detailed sheets that we've got, you'll see that there are numbers back
down in subsequent years because you're not having to outfit all of your personnel with
new protective equipment at $3,500 first shot. So there's some things that are going to
back some of those numbers down in out years, but you've got your overall inflationary
multipliers that apply in there.
I think also, too, 1 think, and I believe you're accurate based on conversations I had with
the organizations that have made transitions like this; it's not immediately an all or
nothing to get into the Auto Aid System and bring staffing level up. There's some things
you got to do and you got to start down that path, but it's not a day one I got to be ready
to do it. That's just not even realistic to make that -- you wouldn't have anybody in the
system.
So to your point, I think what you're thinking in your analysis, based on what 1 heard, is
correct.
SPELICH: What's the extra 250,000 that we spend above and beyond the -- I'm a little --
MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry. I --
SPELICH: I must've been asleep --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- kind of got Dave --
SPELICH: -- for four years.
MAYOR DICKEY: I got Dave in on this late, and so I don't know he's going to actually
have that, but it might have something to do with vehicles or other things like that.
POCK: So yes. Actually in addition to our contract with Rural Metro we purchase
equipment, we maintain equipment, and we have vehicle maintenance costs. In addition
to that 250,000, we also have vehicle replacement fund that's internal, so it's just
changing basically from general fund to the vehicle replacement fund. That's about
another 200,000. So --
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SPELICH: So you're talking about an additional 450,000?
POCK: Um -hum.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, the capital part is going to be ours no matter what, but if you
really want to go --
ARNSON: We own it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. So that we don't have to necessarily look at --
POCK: That doesn't count as far as (indiscernible) --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- when we're comparing, but I just want to make sure that you were
all aware that the contract isn't the only thing that we spend. So if you're going to be
really looking at these differences in numbers, 1 wanted to make sure that you were aware
of that. And also the fact that this start-up is the largest one, the 5373, then it goes down,
then it goes down, then it starts going back up.
SPELICH: Okay. And then the other question 1 have for you, ma'am, is I've been out of
Chicago for just over six years retired. Did I miss something? Because you're saying
that a fireman lasts on the job six and half years? Because --
MAES: Oh, no.
SPELICH: -- in Chicago they're —
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
SPELICH: -- coming to work in a walker and an oxygen tank.
[LAUGHTER]
MAES: I won't bring that message back.
[LAUGHTER]
MAES: No. What I was talking is in generalities. So municipal government employees
on average right now are lasting six and half years. So that includes your cops; it
includes your firefighters; it'll include your administrative assistants. So the fire service
is one of those professions where, with minimal exception, most of those individuals that
come into fire service and they're going to make a career of it, they're going to last longer
than six and half years, right? But there are some individuals -- you're starting to see a
pattern and a trend now that within public safety -- and, you know, I'm not here to
necessarily talk about law enforcement, but were going to be specific just to fire
service -- that individuals are leaving fire services too. And, you know, they are --
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COVID certainly did something to them as well. They are experiencing much of the
same in terms of, you know, wellness issues and mental health concems and that they
have hit a breaking point. The work/life balance is not necessarily level, right, and
working 24-hour shifts is not always conducive to the personal life.
And, you know, you get a profession and then you decide, well, is that going to be what
the rest of my career is going to be, and some people decide that they're just going to get
out altogether. And in fire service in general you will have individuals who, I want to get
into fire service. But then there are others that, I'm not sure if I'm going to stay in it for
the long haul because there's always just -- whether or not it's going to work for them
personally.
The work force is changing right now, and I'm sure that you get updates on how your
recruitment is going, because right now all across the United States everyone is being
challenged with filling their positions and keeping them filled. That's two different —
that's really two different things. And in fire service, you know, you have to be thinking
about, you know, the work/life balance and making sure that you get time off and how
are you -- are you getting called in on overtime, and am I going to have to miss my
child's birthday party because that's what the rotation is. So we do what we can in order
to make the experience, the employee's experience, as positive as you possibly can.
Now, that's not to say that you're going to give them absolutely everything, but you want
to try to make that a positive experience for your retention purposes.
Recruitment is an entirely different conversation but equally important because the
organization should plan and should expect that there is going to be turnover. On an
annual basis, expect that you're going to lose 10%. That's pretty typically because
individuals just decide it's not for them or I'm relocating or whatever it may be. And so
you're going to want to make sure that your salaries are competitive with your region,
right? You're going to make sure that your insurances are competitive. I haven't gotten --
I skipped over that; I apologize. 1 was kind of dealing with a dry mouth. But your
retirement system is a major part of this, right?
And so in the state of Arizona you have two different retirement systems, and that is
something that right now Rural Metro does not have. and that is a benefit of being a
municipal department, most certainly. But there are two different options, and the one
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that we recommend is the one that all of your neighbors have because you're going to
want that for lateral opportunities. If you have a retirement plan that's different from
Mesa and Tempe and Scottsdale, they're going to be less inclined to want to come work
for you if they're already in fire service. And so you -- for competitive purposes, you
need to be offering that same package. So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Absolutely agree. And the fact that you're bringing up all of these
issues that have to do with the staff kind of opens up that other conversation, not only of
the recruiting and the keeping but the -- you know, maybe things that aren't spoken about
as much, and I do have firefighter in my family. But the idea of wanting to work for a
municipality is kind of driving force for some firefighters, and if we're going to talk about
their benefits or the things that they would prefer -- and I don't know that that's anything
that's something that can be in a study, but that is a big part of what I understand a desire
is to work for a municipality. And so I'm glad that you're talking in those terms.
Anybody have any other objects or items to speak about?
I think one of the things that you mentioned throughout had to do with the ability to get
the information, and the reason is -- and nothing is inherently good or bad about
anything, but a for -profit business has got to be more -- guards their information. And we
as a government entity are so used to everything out there, salaries, profits, whatever, and
those are things that, you know, we've never been privy to as far as this relationship goes.
So I think that's another thing to look at.
Back to money, talking about the kind of capital equipment we could at least take
advantage of being able to use. Not necessarily getting — I know when we got our ladder
truck there was some controversy about that. But in the future, if we ever need another
ladder truck, or any one of these items that you list as kind of a specialty vehicle or even
a specialty service -- is something that we would be a benefit of if we were in the
Automatic Aid, shared communication for sure.
So obviously a lot to think about here.
HAIGH: I think to sum it up, really we got four recommendations for you that came out
of the work tried to do.
One, should the town continue to use contractual services, you want to continue to stay
with Rural Metro: I think and I would strongly recommend that you work on a
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contingency plan in the event that Rural Metro exercises their right to end their
contractual relationship. As I said, they've not hinted to that to me in any of the
conversations. I don't know that that's out there. If I did or I've heard that I would tell
you, but I've not heard any of that, but I think you need to be ready. So you need to have
a contingency plan, and 1 would start on that in the next year so that you've got it in your
pocket and you're ready to go.
Second recommendation, if at a point the town elects to create and operate a fire
department, I think your primary goal should be to become compliant with the Regional
Automatic Aid System. I think that's important for providing the services. If you're
going to create your own department, I would say that's the best way to go. I would say
to you, if you do that -- because there are multiple ways to make that happen, there's
different steps that can be taken, there's a lot of different moving parts to make that
happen. I think that you -- I would recommend that you go out and you hire a consultant
that's knowledgeable in the Regional Automatic Aid System and you have them walk you
through the plan. And there are consultants here in the Chi -- in the --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: Do not hire the Chicago consultants for this. There are consultants here in the
Phoenix area that know this inside and out. 1 would --
FRIEDEL: And we have --
HAIGH: I would not go --
FRIEDEL: And we have time to work toward that too, don't we?
HAIGH: Absolutely.
FRIEDEL' Yeah.
HAIGH: Absolutely. But I would not go that alone. I think you need an expert to help
you navigate that, and I will tell you we are not it. You need to get somebody from this
system. So if you decide to go that direction, I would -- and if you need names, the
manager and I can have a conversation about who the players arc that can help you, but
there are some out there.
Three, it's recommended in any move toward creation of municipal department include
the additional positions that Malayna spoke to. You're not going to be able to operate it
without that.
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And four, if the town elects to create a municipal fire department, it's recommended, just
as she outlined just a second ago, that you go into the Arizona Public Safety Retirement
System so that your people are competitive with your neighbors and you've got a good
recruitment opportunity.
So there's an overall analysis of what we've worked on for the last --
[LAUGHTER]
HAIGH: I don't know how long we've been working on it. But --
MASS: It's been awhile.
HAIGH: -- it's been awhile. So --
SCHARNOW: So 1 have a question. Maybe it's more for Grady or maybe you, Craig;
I'm not sure. But what does contingency plan look like or who does that? Is that staff?
MILLER: Well--
SCHARNOW: Or --
MILLER: Yeah. So that could be done by staff. It could also be part of their plan for
them to continue. I will say we had a contingency plan before we brought them on.
Years ago, before my time, even, the previous manager and the staff here actually put
together a plan because at the time Rural Metro had been going through some bankruptcy
possibilities and things like that, and they had been acquired by different companies. So
we actually had put together a plan.
I'm pretty confident that probably with what I've seen tonight this is really probably the
basis of what would be in the contingency plan, but there's also things that were not
mentioned specifically, such as a transition towards an in-house department and what that
might look like. One year's notice to go ahead and give notice, if that's the option that
Council wants to do, there's going to be a lot of different moving parts that we're going to
have to take care of and do, and you just can't do it overnight. So even one year is
probably not enough time to make that happen.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other comments? No?
MAGAZINE: Great presentation.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Wow.
SCHARNOW: Well, I --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
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SCHARNOW: Well, I would just say too, I mean, you know, long term, you know,
financing this type of endeavor would be another whole discussion in terms of how we do
that, you know. I mean, that's, you know -- and I'm sure this other study that we're going
to get next month or so, I mean, you know -- so 1 just -- that's a whole other discussion.
But --
MILLER: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you so much.
Any other comments, questions? Move to adjourn?
SPELICH: I'll move.
MAGAZINE: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All in favor, please say aye.
ALL• Aye.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
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