The URL can be used to link to this page

Home My WebLink About2023.0103.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL January 3, 2023 1. CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE Mayor Dickey called the Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on January 3, 2023, to order at 5:30 p.m. and led the Council and audience in the Pledge of Allegiance. 2. MOMENT OF SILENCE A moment of silence was held. 3. ROLL CALL Members Present Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember Allen Skillicom Attended Telephonically: Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski Members Absent: None Staff Present: Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall Audience: Approximately eighty-three members of the public were present. 4. REPORTS BY MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS, AND TOWN MANAGER 5. SCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCES/PRESENTATIONS 6. CALL TO THE PUBLIC Pursuant to ARS. §30-431.01(H), public comment is permitted (notreeuued) on matters NOT listed on the agenda. Any such comment (i) must be within the jurisdiction of the Council, end CO is subject to reasonable time. piece, and manner restrictions. The Council will not discuss or take legal action on matters raised during call to the Public unless the matters are property noticed Itt discussion and legal action. Al the conclusion of the Call to the Public, individual councilmembers may (i)respond to criticism, (ill ask staff to review a matter, Of Mask that the matter be placed on a future Council agenda. The following residents addressed the council under the Call to the Public. Lori Troller a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council regarding the small cell wireless ordinance and urged the council to reach out to attorney Andrew Campanili who has experience with this issue. David Lovrak a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council regarding the lack of communication he received for his request for clarification on an adopt -a -street policy decision. Jill Keefe a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council urging them to put a strong focus on the vitality of the town center and its small business community as well as asking that the Town form a town center economic development advocacy committee. Dave Long a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council expressing his appreciation to the council for their willingness to serve and to the former council and staff for their work to solve problems and resolve issues. He urged the council to channel their energy into ongoing and new issues. 7. CONSENT AGENDA ITEMS All items listed on the Consent Agenda are considered to be routine, noncontroversial matters and will be enacted by one motion of the Council All motions and subsequent approvals of consent items will include all recommended staff stipulations unless otherwise stated. There will be no separate discussion of these dams unless a councilmember or member of the public so requests. If a councilmember or member of Me public wishes to discuss an item on the Consent Agenda, he/she may request so prior to the motion to accept the Consent Agenda or with notification to the Town Manager or Mayor prior to the date of the meeting for which the item was scheduled The items will be removed from the Consent Agenda and considered in its normal sequence on the agenda. councilmember Toth recused herself from the vote for the consent agenda due to the Chamber of Commerce Special Event Liquor License under consideration. MOVED BY Vice Mayor Peggy McMahon to approve the Consent Agenda, SECONDED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis. Vote: 6 — 0 passed — Unanimously Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Recused Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye A. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of the minutes for the Regular Meeting of November 1, 2022; the Regular Meeting of November 15, 2022 and the Work Session of November 15, 2022. B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a Special Event Liquor License application for the Fountain Hills VFW Post 7507 Veterans of Foreign Wars for a mini beer garden in conjunction with the Fountain Festival of Arts and Crafts on February, 24-26, 2023. C. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a Special Event Liquor License application for the Fountain Hills VFW Post 7507 Veterans of Foreign Wars for a full beer garden in conjunction with the Fountain Festival of Arts and Crafts on February, 24-26, 2023. D. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a Special Event Liquor License application by the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce for a beer garden in conjunction with Fountain Hills Day on March 18, 2023. E. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a Special Event Liquor License application for the Town of Fountain Hills for a beer garden in conjunction with Music Fest on April 1, 2023. F. PUBLIC HEARING, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a Liquor License Application for FATA LLC, located at 11803 North Saguaro Boulevard, Fountain Hills, Arizona, fora Series 18 (Distiller) License. 8. REGULAR AGENDA A. CONSIDERATION AND DISCUSSION: Review Council assignments to Town Subcommittees and Regional Committees. This item is informational only, no action was taken. Clerks Note: Councilmember Allen Skillicorn moved to reorder the regular agenda items moving H, I, J, F, and G after agenda item 8A due to the number of residents speaking and in attendance on behalf of those items, SECONDED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis. B. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approving the update to the Town of Fountain Hills Neighborhood Traffic Management Process David Janover, Town Engineer, presented the update to the Town of Fountain Hills Neighborhood Traffic Management Process and answered the council's questions. MOVED BY Vice Mayor McMahon to adopt the updated Neighborhood Traffic Management Process policy document, SECONDED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis. Vote: 7 — 0 passed — Unanimously Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye C. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of Playspace Design Contract Amendment 2021-048.2 Rachael Goodwin, Deputy Town Manager, and Community Service Director presented the contract amendment for Playspace Design and answered the council's questions. MOVED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis to approve Playspace Design contract amendment 2021-048.2 and associated budget adjustments, SECONDED BY Vice Mayor Peggy McMahon. Vote: 6 —1 passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Nay Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye D. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approving the First Amendment to Cooperative Purchasing Agreement 2022-080.1 with Roadsafe Traffic Systems, Inc, for temporary traffic control (barricades) Justin Weldy, Public Works Director presented the first amendment to the cooperative purchasing agreement with Roadsafe Traffic Systems and answered the council's questions. MOVED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis to approve the First Amendment to Cooperative Purchasing Agreement 2022-080.1 with Roadside Traffic Safety Systems in the amount of $50,000.00, SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski. Vote: 7 — 0 passed — Unanimously Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Mayor Dickey Aye Aye E. CONSIDERATION, AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Approval of a six-month extension to the approved Special Use Permit to allow 17 residential units on a 1.62-acre property generally located north of the northeast corner of N. Saguaro Boulevard and E. Shea Boulevard (AKA 9637 N. Saguaro Boulevard; APN#176-10-805) on the C-1 (Neighborhood Commercial) zoning district. Farhad Tavassoli, Senior Planner presented the special use permit to allow seventeen residential units at 9637 N. Saguaro Boulevard and answered the council's questions. MOVED BY Councilmember Gerry Friedel to approve a six-month extension to the Special Use Permit to allow residential uses at 9637 N. Saguaro Blvd for a maximum of 17 dwelling units, subject to the stipulations approved by Council on December 7, 2021, SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski. Vote: 6 —1 passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Nay Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye F. PUBLIC HEARING, CONSIDERATION, AND POSSIBLE ACTION: ORDINANCE 22-08 amending Chapter 1 (Introduction) and Chapter 12 (Commercial Zoning Districts) to allow indoor shooting ranges subject to the standards listed (Case #TAM22-06). Farhad Tavassoli, Senior Planner presented the amendments to Chapter 1 and Chapter 12 and answered the council's questions. Mayor Dickey opened the Public Hearing, having no comments from the public closed the Public Hearing. MOVED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis to approve Ordinance 22-08, SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski. Vote: 6 —1 Passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicom Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Mayor Dickey Nay Aye G. PUBLIC HEARING, CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: SPECIAL USE PERMIT to allow an indoor shooting range on an existing commercial building within a 1.43-acre parcel generally located approximately 1,400 feet southeast of the southeast corner of N. Saguaro Boulevard and E. Shea Boulevard (AKA 17205 E. Shea Blvd; APN#176-10-247) in the C-1 — Neighborhood Commercial and Professional Zoning District. Mayor Dickey opened the Public Hearing. The Following resident provided a written statement: Jeff Flynn Having no further comments, Mayor Dickey closed the Public Hearing. MOVED BY Councilmember Allen Skillicom to approve the Special Use Permit to allow an indoor firing range at 17205 E. Shea Blvd., SECONDED BY Councilmember Gerry Friedel Vote: 6 — 1 Passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicom Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Nay Mayor Dickey Aye Clerk's Note: The Town Council recessed at 8:15 p.m. for a short break and reconvened at 8:26 p.m. H. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE ACTION: Town Council discussion, consideration, and possible action of adding an invocation on future Town Council agendas. Mayor Dickey opened the item up for public comment. The following resident addressed the council. The following residents provided a written statement: Sharon Ehrlich George Ehrlich Karen Downey Irene Beauvais Nancy Plencner Pastor Tony Pierce Alan and Pat Rousseau Deb Hotchkiss C.V. Watkins Pastor Jeff Teeples Jerry Butler Barbara Adams Sherri James Dianne Price Stephen Gay Gregory L. Vanderboegh Cathi L. Marx Faryl Palles Rod Warembourg Patricia Muscarella Jill Anderson Janice Holden Ann Kinnie Pastor Clayton Willer The following residents addressed the council: Jennifer Roman Wendy Barnrad Bob Wilson Fred James Gina Waldo Andrea Boutselis a Fountain Hills resident spoke in support of having an Invocation stating the benefits of this offering. Alex Boutselis a Fountain Hills resident spoke in support of having an invocation and mentioned the Constitution where is supports this offering and the concept of the separation of powers. Adele Resmer, a Fountain Hills resident spoke in support of a moment of silence and mentioned in the first amendment to the Constitution and actions by the Supreme Court is where the separation of church and state was established. Liz Gildersleeve Fountain Hills resident addressed the council regarding the replacement of the Invocation to a moment of silence during the COVID-19 pandemic, inquiring why it was not reinstated once the COVID restrictions were lifted. Larry Meyers a Fountain Hills resident addressed the council regarding the invocation and why it needed to be removed for any reason mentioning that this s a representative republic; the people voted to have representatives represent them. Alan Acker a Fountain Hills resident addressed the council in opposition to the motion, not to prayer, to the idea that the council will not be able to engage civilly with one another and make decisions for the community without invoking such blessing from God. Crystal Cavanaugh a Fountain Hills resident addressed the council mentioning the need to speak out over concern due to the list of people mentioned in opposition knowing that there were many people through email in favor. Matthew Corrigan a Fountain Hills resident addressed the council mentioning that we're a country based on guiding principles. Freedom of speech, assembly, and faith is important. The founding fathers thought it was important by including it in founding documents. MOVED BY Councilmember Allen Skillicorn to add the Invocation to all future agendas, SECONDED BY Councilmember Brenda Kalivianakis. Vote: 4 — 3 Passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Nay Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicom Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Nay Mayor Dickey Nay I. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE DIRECTION: Possible repeal of Sign Ordinance Section 6.07, Section 6.08, and Resolution 2012-31. Mayor Dickey opened the item up for public comment. The following residents addressed the council. The following residents provided a written statement: Sharon Ehrlich George Ehrlich Sherri James Patricia Muscarella Barbara Adams The following residents addressed the council: Bob Wilson a Fountain Hills resident addressed the council mentioning that the sign ordinance received unanimous support previously. Betsy LaVoie a Fountain Hills resident addressed the council mentioning the Chambers' efforts in the process initially. She expressed her support for additional provisions being added to the current sign ordinance. Crystal Cavanaugh a Fountain Hills resident addressed the council regarding the sign ordinance and explained how she considered herself a personal victim of it during the recent political era. Sean Southland a Fountain Hills business owner addressed the council regarding an air dancer on their property that was in violation of the code and urged the council to consider temporary signage for new businesses. MOVED BY Vice Mayor McMahon to table and move to have an executive session before the next council meeting, SECONDED BY Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski. Vote: 4 — 3 Failed Councilmember Friedel Nay Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Nay Councilmember Toth Nay Councilmember Skillicorn Nay Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye MOVED BY Councilmember Allen Skillicorn to repeal Town Code Sections 6.07 and 6.08 as well as Resolution 2012-31, SECONDED BY Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis. Vote: 4 — 3 Passed Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Nay Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Nay Mayor Dickey Nay J. CONSIDERATION AND POSSIBLE DIRECTION: Adopting Planning and Zoning recommendations relating to community residences (sober living group homes) that were modified or not enacted by the Town Council previously. Mayor Dickey opened the item up for public comment. The following residents addressed the council: Jim Sawicki a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council inquiring about what benefits these houses offer the community, and who decides what, where, when, and whether they are successful. Crystal Cavanaugh a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council and stated that Planning and Zoning have come up with some very well -researched regulations to protect the community, and mentions that more could be done. Matthew Corrigan a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council telling his personal experience and suggesting that there are other methods to address this issue urging a methodical approach. Lori Troller, a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council mentioning the need for more protections to be put in place. Alex Boutselis a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council regarding the effectiveness of the sober -living communities and urged the council to put some tight regulations on these houses for the sake of the people whose lives are at stake in these houses. Rick Watts a Fountain Hills resident, addressed the council asking them to reconsider passing the full version and not the watered-down version of the regulations recommended by the Planning and Zoning Commission. MOVED BY Councilmember Allen Skillicorn to table the item until February 7, 2023, Council Meeting, SECONDED BY Councilmember Hannah Toth. Vote: 7 — 0 Passed — unanimously Councilmember Friedel Aye Councilmember Grzybowski Aye Councilmember Kalivianakis Aye Councilmember Toth Aye Councilmember Skillicorn Aye Vice Mayor McMahon Aye Mayor Dickey Aye 9. COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION to the TOWN MANAGER Item(s) listed below are related only to the propriety of (if placing such item(s) on a future agenda for action, or (ii) directing staff to conduct further research and repot back to the Council. 10. ADJOURNMENT Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on January 3, 2023, at 9:36 p.m. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS GinnytbicckkeeMayor ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: a G. MenUenhall, Town Clerk CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 3rd day of January 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 7'h Day of February 2023. Lidda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Pagel of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Post -Production File Town of Fountain Hills January 3, 2023 Town Council Meeting Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC s * * a Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Page 1 of B9 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 2 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Please rise for the pledge and remain standing. ALL: [Pledge of Allegiance] MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Please remain standing for a moment of silence. [Moment of silence] MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey. MAYOR DICKEY: Here. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor McMahon. MCMAHON: Here. MENDENHALL: Council member Friedel. FRIEDEL: Present MENDENHALL : [Telephonically] Council member Grzybowski . GRZYBOWSKI: Present. MENDENHALL: Council member Kalivianakis. KALIVIANAKIS: Here. MENDENHALL: Council member Toth. TOTH: Here. MENDENHALL: Council member Skillicom. SKILLICORN: Here. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Happy New Year to everyone. Thank you for coming. We start with our reports by Mayor, Council members, and our town manager. Grady? MILLER: Thank you, Mayor. Mayor and Council, I have no reports tonight for you. MAYOR DICKEY: You have anything, Hannah? TOTH: Madam Mayor, I have no report today. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. FRIEDEL: Just that over the past month we attended the Stroll in the Glow and, the following week, the Roll in the Glow because we had a little min here. But both events were spectacular and kind of well attended, even though it did rain. But -- and the lights looked spectacular. Rachael, good job on the lights down in the Avenue of the Fountain. So that was very well received. A lot of people commented on it. Page 2 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 3 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MCMAHON: I hope everyone had happy holidays, and I was fortunate enough to be able to attend the lighting of the Menorah. It was very honorable. It was a great service, and it was well attended. So I really appreciated that opportunity. Thank you, Ginny. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Mayor. Yeah, I'd like to repeat, I guess what has just been repeated, the Stroll in the Glow, the Roll in the Glow, absolutely spectacular. It did rain, but it was -- it was great. Again, Rachael, absolutely outstanding job on the Christmas decorations. Fountain Hill looked like Christmas. And our Christmas card reflected that, by the way. Again, 1 went to the lighting of the Menorah and was actually part of the ceremony. We passed out the candles and then lit the candles, and it was a very special events. I was so honored to be there. Lastly, 1 attended the Arizona Cities and Towns Elected Officials Conference around a month ago. And we covered Arizona government, the management by town manager, budget policies, leadership as mayor and council, social media, open meeting law, and ethics. It was very worth my while. And thanks for Fountain Hills for sending me. I learned a lot from that. Thank you. SKILLICORN: I just want to echo the lighting and the decorations. The Avenue of the Fountains looked spectacular. So I do want to thank staff for making that happen. And it's just a town that we can all be proud to live in and just enjoy. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Most everybody was taking the holidays off a little bit. But we did have a Greater Phoenix Economic Council quarterly mayor supervisor meeting. So I attended that. We had the Prop 202 award from Fort McDowell and Alpine nation. And Grady -- we attended that. And then the Rivertime (ph.) had their annual meeting. But again, it was nice and quiet family time and such for the holidays. We don't have any special scheduled appearances or presentations, so we will begin with the Call to the Public. Do we have any speaker cards on Call to the Public? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. First is Lori Troller. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And just a reminder, these are for items that are not on the agenda. Page 3 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 4 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Please state if you live in Fountain Hills but not your address, thank you. TROLLER: Hi, I'm Lori Troller, resident 27 years. Happy New Year, everybody. Aaron, Grady, everybody, good -- good new faces. I ask for an extra 30 seconds or so. So my topic tonight is the fact that the Town Manager is updating the small -cell facility ordinance. And in laymen's terms that's a fight to the ordinance that we -- currently allows telecom companies to install poles and antennas in our yards or school grounds, churches, parks, and in the roads. It's worth repeating, the importance of this ordinance. There yet to be any explanation as to why our town management is not listening to the advice of the attorney Andrew Campanelli. He's a lawyer that's litigated over 7,000 telecommunication court cases, some at the Supreme Court level. April and I have arranged for free consultation with him. And we're hoping that the entire Council agree to Zoom meeting him, just as Pima County as done and countless other small towns in Arizona have done. They've used him to help prepare their best and strongest small -cell ordinances. This ordinance is the fist -line of defense our residence have against telecom companies and their team of lawyer bullying the owns and putting their poles and antennas wherever they want, including our front yards. And these opposing telecom lawyers exist to protect the profitability of these large companies. And they've lobbied our state lawmakers to write the worst state law of the 50 states, which strips Arizonians of our federal rights to have any say as to where the towers are placed in our beautiful town. Meanwhile, other states have allowed towns to reserve the residential areas of such structures and exposure. So when you and I walk out to our front doors and have towers on our property irradiating microwaves straight through our homes and just lowered our property values homes up to 30 percent, this ordinance is yours and my first line of defense against the telecom lawyers. And when this is the size of the legal fight and the enormous threat against our rights to live in our homes without such exposure, one quickly realizes what we're up against. We need the absolute best defense we can have. And that is exactly what Mr. Campanelli will provide us. So yes, the state, for obvious telecom lobbying reasons, has given the companies free reign on every town to build their equipment where they want. But there are still ways Page 4 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 5 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING that we can protect ourselves. It's highly technical and very complicated, well worth the advice of professionals with extensive on -point legal experience who fully understand the depth of the complications well beyond the specialties of our town staff and our light research. Again, I implore that the Council please take advantage of the free information from the experienced, specialized lawyers, the same lawyers Arizona towns and thousands of other towns across the country have taken advantage of. Mr. Campanelli has provided a quote to write an ordinance for us that abides by the federal and state law that will best assure our state and general funds remain in good standing. And thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thank you. And I think I'm allowed to tell you that we are working on the -- the new ordinance and we'll he in contact with you. TROLLER: Right. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. TROLLER: Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next is David Lovrak. LOVRAK: Hello. I'm David Lovrak. I've been a member -- citizen of Fountain Hills for the last 18 months, since the summer of 2021. On April 19th, 2022, 1 sent Public Works Director Justin Weldy a short, police email requesting clarification on an adopt -a -street policy decision. But when I got no reply after more than six months, I asked Town Councilwoman Brenda Kalivianakis to inquire on my behalf She spoke to Public Works Director Weldy and to Town Manger Grady Miller twice before Mr. Weldy finally answered my email four weeks later on November 29th, 224 days after my original inquiry. Mr. Weldy offered no apology or explanation for his delayed response. But he did include -- conclude his reply by inviting me to recontact him if I had any additional questions or concerns. So I did. On December 8th, just last month, 1 wrote Mr. Weldy again and cc'd Town Manger Grady Miller, asking why it took 32 weeks and added pressure from an elected official for either of them to answer a short, simple, and respectful email request from a citizen. I emphasized that my new inquiry was not rhetorical and that I wasn't seeking an apology but rather a reasonable explanation for such an unreasonable delay. Page 5 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 6 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Neither of the emails I sent to these gentlemen was insulting or disrespectful, and 1 deserved the professional courtesy of a reasonably prompt reply. I did not deserve to be ignored for more than eight months until 1 finally shook the right tree sufficiently to get an answer. It's already been a month since I wrote to Mr. Weldy and to Mr. Miller asking why it took them so long to answer my first email. As of today, neither of them has replied. 1 retired from a 24-year government career that included serving as the public information officer for my agency. I had occasion to communicate with all levels of leadership, business people, and professional colleagues, as well as private citizens. My correspondence ranged from congressmen and foreign dignitaries to school children. And not all of the email I received from these -- not all of the email I received was polite or professional. But I still gave every correspondent the courtesy of a prompt reply. I have had more responsive exchanges with junior high school student councils than I've managed to elicit from Fountains Hills Public Works Director or its Town Manager. The smug disregard that these two town leaders have shown toward me for asking a couple of polite, simple questions is a symptom of a much larger problem embedded in the leadership culture of this town. Their dismissiveness exemplifies the cynicism and contempt they feel towards the citizens they serve. These are two of the highest paid staff on the Town's payroll, yet they can't be bothered to respond to a resident's earnest inquiry. Madam Mayor and Council members, much of the rancor you hear from public comments at this microphone is rooted in the frustration I've just described. I hope that this Council will act decisively, perhaps starting with a comprehensive, anonymous culture survey of the entire Town staff Only then will you begin improving communication and repairing their damaged report with the citizens and business owners they were hired to serve. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next is Jill Keefe. KEEFE: Hi. It's such a pleasure to address this first reconstituted Council. So thank you so much for that. It's a privilege. My name is Jill Keefe, if we've not met yet. My husband and I own Good Living Greens, which is an independent health -oriented grocery store. We're Arizona first in our -- in our products. And I've seen a couple of you in the Page 6 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 7 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING store. Thank you. It means a lot to us. 1 appreciate the support. And if you haven't had a chance yet to make it into the store, come on down. We want to share our -- our story and our vision and what were about. But I'm not here to make a sale. That's not my purpose today. What I want to do is ask that this new Council put a strong focus on the vitality of the town center and its small business community in specific. Let this Council be the council that is -- the small -- the small business advocate's. Supporting small business starts with knowing us, learning about us, our goals and our challenges, our intentions. See what we see every day. Ask what we think. Be invested in our success. This town's business community is counting on the execution of the downtown plan. My business is an example. We are just one block north of here and two blocks east on Parkview, right by Saguaro. But please come before dark because there are no streetlights and no sidewalks. You'll pass seven vacant lots if you walk from here to there. Most of those have litter and haven't been maintained. There's a car currently in the back of the parking lots that's serving as a shelter for some homeless folks. With the recent increase in downtown housing density, it's an incredible opportunity for our downtown businesspeople to provide and meet those residents' needs. But it does need to be safe and vital and alive. I'm impressed with the downtown plan. I've read it. It contemplates all of this. What doesn't contemplate it is the financial plan. You're going to need some money to fill the vision. There's much to do. The second ask that 1 have for you is to consider forming a town -- town center economic development advocacy committee that includes representation from small business owners specifically. Issues like sign ordinances, event zoning decisions, and walkable, connected lit downtown greatly affect our ability to do business and be successful in this town. We get the issue, we get the challenges, the small business owners. We talk. We know what were doing. And we have a point of view. Let us help. There's benefits for all of us with this. The town benefits from increased tax revenues and a more compelling recruitment, retention, and expansion story. Resident benefit from an active, walkable safe community. Business owners benefit from the ability to influence that which defines Page 7 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 8 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING their success. With all of that, thank you for hearing me. I appreciate the time. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MENDENHALL• Next is Dave Long. LONG: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council members. My name is Dave Long, and I've been a resident of Fountain Hills almost 27 years. I come to you this evening simply to thank all of the Council members for stepping up to serve the citizens of this wonderful town that we call home. Thank you for your willingness to take on the challenges that are known and which are not yet known in the coming year. We've heard a couple of them already. Thank you for striving to make our great town even better. Your predecessors have served this town well and worked tirelessly to solve problems, resolve issues, and provide us with a safe and stable environment, ever -improving environment. Supported by a great staff, volunteer commissioners, and fellow citizens, Fountain Hills has come a long way in its maturity and image for -- to other communities. In many ways, the Town has been recognized as a model to be emulated and even recognized with numerous awards. Thanks to the Council's decisions, the Town has done exceptionally well, despite the challenges it has faced. 1 am not here tonight to enumerate that long list of those past decisions but to point out that, for the most part, the Council members ultimately voted unanimously on the issues that it was confronted with. Oftentimes the unanimous vote was taken following long periods of study and debate. The ultimate votes were all -- thus always considered votes. The new year will surely bring substantial -- a substantial bundle of new challenges that the Council must address, as its predecessors have. This constituent, me, point to -- simply -- point tonight simply -- my point tonight is simply this, is to ask that the Council channel its finite energy in ongoing and new issues and not to spend precious time revisiting the thoroughly considered decisions of the past. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Mayor, that's it for Call to the Public. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks very much. We appreciate it. Some of those items will be followed up on. I think, talking about the downtown revitalization, I know we do have a group doing that. And well -- well be in touch. Next is our Consent Agenda, which any Council person, if they would like anything Page 8 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 9 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING removed, they're certainly free to do that. Yes, ma'am. TOTH: Sony, Madam Mayor. My name is on one of the liquor license, so I'm going to go ahead and recuse myself form the Consent Agenda tonight. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any items you'd like removed from consent? Otherwise I'll take a motion, please. SKILLICORN: Well, is the consent agenda only the liquor license, the applications? MAYOR DICKEY: It's everything from 7 A to F. SKILLICORN: It appears it is, okay. So I -- MAYOR DICKEY: Woops, I'm sorry -- I'm sorry. 1 didn't hear you. MCMAHON: I already made a motion. MAYOR DICKEY: That's okay, I'll -- SKILLICORN: Well, it can't be a Consent Agenda if one person is -- has to stay off of it, so we'll have -- let's vote on it. MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me? SKILLICORN: It cannot be a Consent Agenda if one member does not go along with it, right? MAYOR DICKEY: No, I'm asking -- SKILLICORN: Yeah, I know -- MAYOR DICKEY: Aaron, could you please advise? MR. ARNSON: Sure, no, Mayor and Council, if there's -- if someone need to recuse for an item, the remainder of the Council who hasn't recused, just as any item, can vote on it. Yeah. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Are there any items you'd like removed? How about a motion? Do 1 have a second? KALIVIANAKIS: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. COUNCILMEMBERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Motion passed. GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, ma'am. Don't let me forget that you're there. Our first regular agenda item is to review council assignments to town subcommittees Page 9 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 10 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING and to regional committees. So as you can see in your packet, we have quite a few organizations and positions that are available to us. The open seats are indicated. As you can see, we also have some internal -- we have a couple of internal committees. So if you are listed on one of these committees and you don't want to be on it anymore, please let us know. We're not go -- were not doing this, like, right now. But this is just for you to get information to ask questions about these committees if you'd like. If you don't want to be on the one you're on, then that will become an open position. Also, the ones that appoint commissioners, you know, we have two sets of subcommittees and then we switch. So that one you don't have to tell me which one you want to be one because that one will just be three and three, and then next year, well switch them for the different commission interviews. The Fountain Hill Cares one and the traffic committees, at this point, if it stays the way it is, we have one position on each of those because we will maintain the three -- you know, we wouldn't want to have four on those. And obviously, we don't' have to fill every single position on there. It's always great for us to have representation on some of these regional committees. It lets us be at the table, as they say. So if you would like -- I don't know, Grady, would you like to kind of touch on these and then we can take questions? MILLER: Sure. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MILLER: So there's a table that's attached to the agenda item. So I'll just kind of briefly go over those. So with the Maricopa Association of Governments, those are mostly all policy related committees. And so they request that these actually be appointments that are done formally at a council meeting. And then we will notify the Maricopa Association of Governments that the councilmembers will be serving as a representative to those bodies. So the other one is Valley Metro. That's another example. So the Valley Metro board of directors, the past councilmember -- former councilmember Mike Chamell represented the Town on that because we are a member of Valley Metro, which is the transportation or transit for the valley. So let me just mention these really quickly. So we have East Valley Partnership. That's a Page 10 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 11 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING board of directors seat. Currently councilmember Peggy McMahon is -- is on that. And so that may be something she wishes to continue with. But then there's other East Valley Partnership groups and subcommittees. So there's the Advocacy in Government Relations. That's open. There's also the Educational Think Tank. That's part of the East Valley Partnership. And then there's one for Economic Vitality. And that is currently provided representation from councilmember Sharon Grzybowski. And then also there's the Critical Infrastructure and Transportation. And that's also provided by Sharon Grzybowski. So what the Mayor has mentioned is, take a look at this list tonight and then, at the next Council meeting, she will solicit from the councilmembers their official interest. But we ask that you send us an email, maybe next week, so we can kind of have an idea who has requested what so that we have a better idea going into the meeting on the 17th as to potential memberships and representation. So I didn't go over the entire list, but that is in front of you. MAYOR DICKEY: And I just want to add that normally, I think they pretty much accept who we forward to them. MILLER: That's correct. MAYOR DICKEY: But you, Peg, might have a little bit more of a -- they do -- I think they do an interview. And Sharon's on that board right now. But I think, by and large, they will accept what we want to do. And then you see who's on these and you can ask questions about what they've done this year and -- and just the area of your interest. Do you have a question? KALIVIANAKIS: The GPEC and the MAG, are there openings available, do you know of? MILLER: Yes. So if you look at the right column it will show either a name of a councilmember that is currently assigned or it will say open. And so what I would suggest is if you have an interest in one that may have a councilmember's name, that could be something that's discussed. And then if there is an opening -- you know, because we may have a couple councilmembers that express interest in one. And then that helps us, when we have that meeting on the -- on the l7th, to narrow it down. So -- and there's -- there's not a need to have every single one of these filled. I just want Page 11 of B9 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 12 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING to make that very clear. Even the City of Phoenix is not represented on every single board that would be listed here. So it's really the -- the primary interest which you might have as interest as a councilmember, go with that. And certainly the policy committees. As an example, Councilmember Friedel has been on the Domestic Violence Council. That may be one that he wants to continue. Or maybe he feels like he's done enough time doing that but he may want to do a different one that -- another policy committee that Maricopa Association of Govemments offers. So the only one I want to make sure that it's very clear is the regional council is typically only mayors will serve on that. So right now it's showing Mayor Ginny Dickey. So that the way that the Maricopa Association of Governments works is that they have technical committees and they have policy committees. Technical committees are -- my staff members are on a number of those. And then the policy committees are like what Councilmember Friedel is on, and there's been other representation from councilmembers on those. The regional council is considered a policy committee. And then I -- I serve on the Maricopa Association of Government's Management Committee. That's all the city managers typically serve on that. So basically, things come up through the committee process at the technical level. Then they come up to the policy level. And then they come up to, like, the MAG Management Committee level. And then those are recommended to the regional council for action, in which case our mayor votes on those items. And then, anything that's a significant issue, we'll always bring back per our policy agenda, well bring back to the Council for -- if it's a major, major issue, we'll bring it back to Council to get the Council to weigh in on. MAYOR DICKEY: League ones are -- usually don't even start until, like, April. And what they do is they're coming up with a legislative agenda for league cities and town. Then those -- so we have people there; that's great. And then they come back; they give their recommendations to league leadership. They decide if they're going to forward them. Then, I think our June meeting or -- I bring it back, so then there's kind of, like, a consensus, permission to vote at the league conference. And you guys were there, so you saw how that works, so. So please, by the 9th, if you know that -- if you don't want to be on one, if you do want to be on one, if you have questions about anything, if you me know by then, then we'll Page 12 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 13 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING know and well actually make these appointments with plenty of notice on the 17th -- on the 17? Yes. Is that good? Any other questions? Thank you. Our next item is going to be an update on the -- oh, do we have speaker cards on -- SKILLICORN: Actually, I should --just wanted to make a quick motion for the agenda -- move the agenda items. I'd like to change the order. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, just tell me what you had in mind because I know that -- SKILLICORN: I'd like -- there's quite a few people in the audience that probably like to speak on certain issues. So I would actually like to move H, I, J, F, and G up to the top of the order. MAYOR DICKEY: Let me ask Aaron -- TOTH: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: -- about that because we don't usually vote on changing agenda items. And also there are folks who might not come -- might not have come at the beginning of this meeting because they knew that those items -- SKILLICORN: I believe it's seconded and the rules specifically allow it. MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me? SKILLICORN: I believe it's seconded and the rules specifically allow it. ARNSON: Mayor and Council, that's what I'm confirming right now. I'm going to take a look at the rules of procedure if you give me 30 seconds. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. ARNSON: Thanks. Mayor and Council, I believe the rules do allow for it. Rules 1.4 of the Council Rules of Procedure provide that "the council by a three-quarter vote of all members present may suspend strict observant of these council -- observant of these council rules or other policies or procedures for the timely order -- orderly progression of the meeting, provided, however, that a simple majority of the council may cause a change in the order of items on the agenda." MAYOR DICKEY: So it goes by a motion and a second and just like a regular agenda -- ARNSON: A motion, a second, and a simple majority vote, Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So there's a motion to change the order of the agenda, and it's been -- I didn't hear it, but has it been seconded? TOTH: Second. Page 13 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 14 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And is it an item that we can discuss? ARNSON: I think it's like any motion, Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Any comments on doing that? MCMAHON: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor. MCMAHON: I prefer to leave it in the order that we have. There's probably reasons for that, more than what we can discuss, but I just feel that in respect of how the agenda was set up and submitted, we all were aware of that in advance. As far as I know, know comments or requests were made in advance. And therefore, to sit at a council meeting and all of a sudden request a change when everybody is prepared, staff -wise and otherwise, to go in the order submitted, that we not change the order. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any other comments? KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. I would be for Allen's amendment. 1 think that it's probably a common known fact, a lot of people are to -- on the Call to the Public. And instead of keeping the people here to 10 or 11 o'clock, let's let people speak their minds on the agenda items that I think we kind of guess they want to speak their minds on so we can let the people go home. And I would be for this. FRIEDEL. I don't see any -- Mayor, I don't see any problem changing the agenda. We're not taking anything out. We're not hiding anything. It's transparent. And it's part of the course of action. So I -- I would be in favor of it now. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Grzybowski. GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah. I -- I feel like, when we wanted to do this in the past, we've approached you after you submitted it online and then you start the meeting and say, were going to change the order. While I agree, yeah, it's at the end and we don't want to keep the people there all night, I just kind of feel like we're doing things a little different than is usually accepted, so I'm going to be against this. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, councilwoman. And again, I would say, you know, because of transparency and because of the way it has been publicized, that there may be folks who thought they had time to get here and time to speak on these items. And by moving them up, we may deny them the opportunity to do that. So I would rather keep it in the order that everybody expected. Any other comments. No? Okay, so all in favor of Page 14 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 15 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING changing the order as stated, please say aye. COUNCILMEMBERS: Ayes. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed, nay. COUNCILMEMBERS: Nay. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. It's probably four/three, yes. Okay. We'll, this next item was going to be about the Traffic Management. And if I heard you correctly -- and again, let's see -- SKILLICORN: I'm more than happy to repeat -- MAYOR DICKEY: H -- A, H, I , and J. SKILLICORN: Actually, it's H, I, J, F, and G. MAYOR DICKEY: F and G? Oh, after that? SKILLICORN: Correct. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And again, for future reference, I -- you know, I'm always happy to talk about the order of agendas and items on the agenda because it's always a good way to proceed. So the next item, then, would be the consideration of possible action to add an invocation to future Town Council agendas. I'll -- Grady, would you like to kick that off, at least to get it started and -- MILLER: Sure, Mayor. So before the Council tonight is a request of three councilmembers who had wanted to have this agenda item brought before the council. In the past, historically, we have an invocation or -- or prayer before each council meeting. And then during the pandemic, for a variety of different reasons, the moment of silence, which is allowed in the rules, the council rules, either the invocation or a moment of reflection was invoked. So this request is to bring back the invocation and Council's consideration and discussion about it. So with that, I'll turn it over to councilmember Skillicom, who actually had requested this item. SKILLICORN: Yeah. I just want to start with making a motion to bring back the invocation. I don't know if I'll have a second or not. MAYOR DICKEY: The way we -- the council rules have, the staff speaks, then we hear from the public, and then we can discuss. So given that, we have people that would like to speak to it. I'd like to move to that, if that's okay with you, before we -- Page 15 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 16 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING SKILLICORN: That's fine. MAYOR DICKEY: -- do a motion. FRIEDEL: I'd like to check with Aaron. I think we do need to -- a second to open it for discussion. MAYOR DICKEY: We -- we -- ARNSON: Sony, a second? MAYOR DICKEY: -- we don't need to make a motion to have a discussion. ARNSON: No. FRIEDEL: Well, technically, according to Robert's Rules, Madam Mayor, there should a motion and a second to having any discussion. Now, our rules might allow to have public comment on it without a motion and second; that's fine. But for discussion, typical -- Robert's Rules of Order requires a motion and a second. ARNSON: That may be. That's never how we've proceeded under our Rules of Procedure. We -- if it's on the agenda, it's -- we accept public comment. We never strictly followed Robert's Rules. Maybe that is the case. I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm just telling you what our rules and practice has been. TOTH: Just to clarify, the public comment does not need a motion or a second. However, discussion on the issue as a council is what is supposed to, under Robert's Rules of Order have a motion and a second, and then discussion. So that that discussion is limited if someone were to move to call the question. ARNSON: So Rule 1.1 of the Rules of Procedure say that we follow the following authorities in this order. State law; Town law, including the Council rules; Parliamentary Procedure at a Glance; Robert's Rules of Order, and then it's -- of course, at the beginning of that is these basic rules of procedures for meetings of the council proceed -- or govern, followed by those in that order, right? That's Section 1.1. So that may well be the case. However we want to proceed, that's fine. I'm not -- 1 don't really care one way or another. I'm just letting you know that we -- it's not been our practice in the years that I've been here to ever require discussion -- or a motion for discussion amongst councilmembers or anything like that. We do have the opportunity to call the question, as Councilmember Toth -- Toth, right -- referenced, assuming that there is a question pending on the floor. Page 16 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 17 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING So if there's a motion that has been entertained by the Mayor and a motion has been made and seconded, a majority -- I'd have to look at whether it's five or six, a majority of five or six of the Council may move to call the question. So yes, does that -- I don't know if that answers he questions, but that's -- that's how we've done it and that's what our rules say, and that's as much as I can -- 1 can put out there for you. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, I'm fine with either way, like you say, unless the -- you know, we -- we're going to begin with public comment, and we will eventually or now will have a motion. If the reason for a motion is so that you can call the question and prevent debate, I -- you know, I don't think that's a very good idea. But, you know, I mean, it's up to you if that's your motivation. At this point right now, I'm happy to take a motion or go straight to public comment, and then we can take motion, take a second, and discuss this as we like. But we've never been a strict Robert's Rule of Order -- that's never been the way we operate, so -- KALIVIANAKIS: Just --just --just -- MAYOR DICKEY: -- I'm following our Rules of Procedure. And if you do follow our Rules of Procedure, all discussion has to come through the Chair and be recognized, so -- yes, ma'am? KALIVIANAKIS: Ms. Mayor, yeah, if we could go to debate with only a motion without a second, I would be more than willing to accommodate past precedent. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So why don't we start with the comments from the public, and well hear from you, and then we will discuss also. So Linda, thank you very much. MENDENHALL. Okay. So we have a list. What I'm going to do is -- we had written comments, which you received. And I'm going to first say their comments, not their comments but that they provided information. Sharon Ehrlich, and she is -- she doesn't want to speak. She opposes it. George Ehrlich, he opposes it. Karen Downey opposes it. Irene Beauvais opposes it. Sherri James opposes it. Dianne Price is in favor -- oh, no, I'm sorry. She is opposed to it. Steven Gay is opposed to it. I'm just going to read their names because you have to kind of read through what they're saying. Gregory Vanderboegh, Cathi L. Marx -- unless you want me to. Page 17 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 18 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAYOR DICKEY: To say whether they -- yeah. Let the -- if you have them kind of in that same order, that'd be great. MENDENHALL: Okay. Is opposed. Cathi Marx is for it. Faryl Palles -- I probably said it wrong -- is opposed. Nancy Plenener -- but didn't make a comment, so I'm not sure, so. Pastor Tony Pierce is in favor. Alan and Pat Rousseau are in favor. Deb Hotchkiss is opposed. Rod Warembourg is opposed -- oh, I mean in favor, yes. I'm sorry. Patricia Muscarella -- hopefully I said your name right -- she's opposed. Jill Anderson is opposed. Janice Holden is opposed. Ann Kinnie is opposed. Pastor Clayton Wilfer is in favor. C. V. Watkins is in -- opposed. Jeff-- Pastor Jeff Teeples is in favor. Jerry Butler is opposed. Barbara Adams is opposed. Jennifer Roman is in favor. Wendy Barnrad is opposed. Now we will go to the people who have asked and requested to speak. Bob Wilson. WILSON: I'm opposed. MENDENHALL: Okay. So you don't want to speak, okay. WILSON: Right. I'm opposed to this one. MENDENHALL: Okay. And then Jill Keefe. KEEFE: Hi again. Hey, thank you for putting this topic on the -- on the agenda. I have kind of a different perspective that I thought might be useful; otherwise, I wouldn't bother weighing in. There's lots of people that have a point of view here, for sure. I do think this is a little different, though. You know, regarding return to invocation, invocation is an ask for divine assistance. It's not for us. It's not for show. And it's not to advocate for the state or this faith or that faith. It's to ask for assistance for you. And it's sincere. And I think you need it. [LAUGHTER] If I may. You're a new team. There are many different points of view on this team as there are council people. But make no mistake, you're a team. And when a team prays together and asks for help together, you're saying, it's not about me, it's about how we can best serve this town. And we could use a little help doing it. The Council has serious work ahead in the next two years. And the current level of division and vitriol is noticed by everyone. It's not a good look for the town. Businesses, families, and individuals who might consider moving here notice it, and they can see it on YouTube by watching any council meeting. Page 18 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 19 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Adding a moment of prayer sets a tone of sincerity where healing can begin. It's going to be a long two years of healing don't -- if it doesn't start happening soon. A moment of reflection is wonderful. But it's a private, personal thing. Invocation, our voices coming together in agreement that divine needed -- divine wisdom is needed and invited. And that's a much more meaningful and powerful thing to attain. The vulnerability it takes of each of you to seek divine participation forces you to park preconceived notions and your positions and your suspicions. It unburdens the egos so you can consider the possibility of another possibility. When you invite God in, however you conceive God, you create the space for miracles to move, which is nothing more and nothing less than a shift in perception, allowing you to see what could not see before. At a minimum, you start the meeting in agreement on something. Prayer softens hearts and it sharpens minds. Could a moment of getting outside of yourselves and letting God in hurt? Give it go. Even if you don't believe, give it a go anyway. It won't kill you and it won't kill anyone else in this town. The worst it can do is nothing. But it may help. I hope it helps. I hope it provides the respect and humility to this forum that it deserves and needs so that you can focus on the matter at hand. But what about offending people? This is a world that gets offended. Invocation before public meetings is not an endorsement of a certain faith or any faith at all. It's a reelection of the belief of this community. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you ma'am. We're -- we're going to have to stick to the three minutes because we have a lot of people here. Thank you. It's fair. KEEFE: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next we have Andrea Boutselis -- Boutselis? BOUTSELIS: Boot -sell -us. MENDENHALL: Boot -sell -us. BOUTSELIS: Boot -sell -us, Boot -sells -us, Boot -sell -us. MENDENHALL: Thank you. BOUTSELIS: Hello, everybody. Happy new year. Happy to be here. My name is Andrea Boutselis. I am an ordained minister, and I currently work as hospital chaplain where I minister to people of all faiths and those who have no faith at all. I can and I will Page 19 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 20 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING assure you of one thing I know to be true, based on my years of ministry. Invoking the presence of God through prayer has never been controversial. And it has always served as a source of peace, strength, hope, and perseverance, something we are all in dire need of. It saddens me and troubles me that there are members of our community, including some on this council, who feel the need to oppose a nondenominational invocation at the beginning of Town Council meetings. Invocations have been a longstanding tradition in communities in America since its very founding and serve the important purpose of reminding those present that they're accountable to a power greater than themselves. We call this concept humility. And it is a trait we would like to see more of in our elected officials. As Mayor and councilmembers, you are stewards of this beautiful community. My husband and I chose to live in this oasis, in this desert, because of the panoramic views of the mountains, the sunsets, which are beyond words, the smiling faces of its diverse residents, and the overall serenity of this area. How one can look at the beauty of our community and not see the hand of a loving creator is beyond me. Opposing a prayer to invoke the presence of the creator of all this beauty strikes me as showing a lack of something we all need a little bit more of in our lives and hearts, and that is gratitude. 1 ask you to never forget whom you ultimately serve. Ask him for the strength to make tough decisions, to remove distractions, to calm anxious spirits and break down the walls that divide us. And what I just said is in essence an invocation. Why wouldn't we want to start this council meeting with words such as this? This should not be threatening to anyone. I'd like to commend the members of this council who asked to reintroduce the invocation. I thank you for your moral fortitude and boldness. We are not called to be timid at times like this. We see what you are up against and that you have risen to the occasion. Never back down. You know the one who is the ultimate authority; follow his path. It has been set before you. Starting right here and now, you are called to fight the good fight. You are called to finish the race. And you are called to keep the faith. Don't back down. You were called for such a time as this. MENDENHALL: Thank you. BOUTSELIS: Thank you. MENDENHALL. Next is Alex Boutselis. Page 20 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 21 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING BOUTSELIS: Good evening. You've heard from my better half. We reside in Fountain Hills. There was an online petition circulating against reinstating the invocation at council meetings on the false claim that the U.S. Constitution was written to create a secular government. Nothing could be further from the truth. At the Constitutional Convention, in fact, delegates were deadlocked over various issues after weeks of debate. Ben Franklin, the oldest and considered to be the wisest delegate at the Convention, said the following to his fellow delegates. And I quote, "In the situation of this assembly, groping as it were in the dark, define political truth, and scarce able to distinguish it when it presented itself to us, how is it happen that we have not hither to once thought of humbly applying to the father of light to illuminate our understanding? I have lived, sir, a long time. And the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs the affairs of men. I therefore move that henceforth, prayers imploring the assistance of heaven and its blessings in our deliberations be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business and that one or more of the clergy of the City be requested be requested to officiate that service." End quote. To imply that our government is not based on Biblical principles is to be ignorant of the facts. A study of political writings of the founding era found that the Bible was the most quoted authority in those writings. 34 percent of documented quotes came from the Bible. The whole concept of separation of powers was based on Jeremiah 17:9, something affirmed by John Adams and also by James Madison in Federalist 51. The Constitution itself specifically sets aside Sundays, the Lord's day, from any governmental work, refer to Article 2. The Preamble is called to, quote, "secure the blessings of liberty," is clearly religious in that the word "blessing" means God's provision or favor. The Constitution also closes with the attestation clause of Article 7, declaring it was written, quote, "in the year of our Lord, 1787." Is it no wonder then, that founding father and second president John Adams, made the following observation, quote, "Our Constitution was made" for a -- "only for a morally religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." I would ask any of those who would vote against reestablishing the long -held American tradition of having the invocation at meetings such as this, if they think that they have a Page 21 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 22 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING greater understanding or wisdom as to how our government is meant to be run than the patriots and the founding fathers I referenced this evening who were the ones who actually created that government. Thank you for your time and consideration. God bless America and God bless Fountain Hills. MENDENHALL: Next we have Adele Resmer. RESMER: Good evening. My name is Adele Resmer. I am a Lutheran Pastor of 35 years. I reside here in Fountain Hills. While it is true that there was much discussion at the time of the formation of this country about inclusion of God language and particularly Christian references, the U.S. Constitution and actions by the Supreme Court that followed did not do so. It is in the First Amendment to the Constitution that there is established a separation of church and state, which is to say no government can mandate any kind of restrictions on the expression of or the worship of a particular religion. Now, we know throughout our history, of course, that hasn't always been the case. We have largely given preference to Christians in our culture. I am someone who has benefited from that. Certainly, I was raised in a culture where I went to church every Sunday. There were blue laws because that was our worship day. And I was raised in a faithful family and have committed my life to the church. That hasn't changed. I trust, though, because I have deep and abiding relationships with people of other faith traditions, and actually people of no faith tradition but who have deep commitments and values for the good of this country, that there need -- there is room for all of us. And our Constitution and the amendments, particularly he First Amendment, really require that. The importance of that -- actually the Supreme Court acted on that on at least -- I'll just cite two different occasions. In 1961, the Supreme Court acted that states and federal government bodies could not -- were prohibited from requiring any kind of religious test for public office. And while I know that none of you were asked to mark on the line whether you were a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, a Buddhist, or a nonreligious person, the rhetoric that has been around this particular action that's being asked does suggest that anyone who might have a different opinion about whether an invocation or other religious practices is not affirmed, that somehow, those citizens are not faithful people, they are not people who believe in God, and that they do not have the good of their Page 22 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 23 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING country as part of their commitment, I would say is putting a test to you. Am I done? So let me say that I would ask that a moment of silence would be observed, so -- MENDENHALL: Next we have Liz Gildersleeve. GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening. I have a bit of a different perspective. This isn't just about the invocation. According to the attachment for this agenda item, quote, "The invocation was replaced with a moment of silence during the COVID-l9 pandemic." End quote. Covid restrictions were lifted many months ago. So then why wasn't the invocation reinstated months ago? The only conclusion is that getting rid of the invocation was never about COVID. And for me, this abuse of power is the most disturbing issue of all. The powers that are afforded to you, Mayor Dickey, during a public health emergency should be treated with humility. Implementing a change for personal benefit or to appease your political allies, like getting rid of the invocation under the guise of a public health emergency, is a disgusting abuse of power. Since the invocation was never restored after the COVID restrictions were lifted, how could anyone conclude any differently about your actions? How can anyone trust your leadership again? I can't. Thank you, Mr. Skillicom, for wasting no time in bringing the reinstatement of the invocation to the agenda. Clearly the invocation is important to many for a variety of reasons. And residents, like were doing tonight, have a right to listen to the discussion, speak, participate in the debate, and witness the vote by our elected officials as it should have happened months ago, not sweep it under the rug and hope nobody notices. MAYOR DICKEY: I'm allowed to respond to that, which I will. The Rules of Procedure for running a meeting or for having a meeting says that we will begin an invocation or a moment of silence. So it was never anything that was new or out of the ordinary. I did not begin it during COVID. I began it in my first meeting in January when I first became -- well, when not when I first became -- my second term. So it was before the COVID stuff. And it was my prerogative and whatever to do it. It was legal. And -- and so I did not do that because of COVID. And that was not a fair accusation. Excuse me. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next is Larry Meyers. MEYERS: Mayor, Council, happy New Year. I'm going to be brief, less eloquent than Page 23 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 14 or 89 JANUARY 3, 2013 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Ben Franklin, probably. 1 was raised a Presbyterian, not particularly religious. I'm married to a Jew way more religious than me. And I've been coming to these meetings since the town first had a meeting when we became a town and we were saying the invocation. So I don't know what was so terrible about that and why it had to get removed for any reason whatsoever. But that aside, I want to remind everybody for this issue and every issue going forward that this isn't a democracy. This is a representative republic. And the people voted to have representatives represent them. And so I say, represent. Email campaigns originating in the bowels of the democratic club and their liberal ladies with scorecards absolutely have no meaning whatsoever. They have no bearing on anything. They mean absolutely nothing on this issue or any other issue for that matter. I'm guessing from the numbers of houses of worship in this town that 80 percent of the citizens believe in God or a being -- some form of being greater than themselves. And that's probably a good thing because narcissism is a terrible affliction that our society is going through at this point. But I want to say that prayer unities. And nothing could be seen as a better example than last night when two combative NFL teams vying for the top spot knelt in the middle of the field together and prayed for one of their fallen compatriots. They prayed for some divine intervention to save someone other than themselves. That I say is unity. Now, I've been hearing a lot about contentious and all this other stuff, so I'm just going to say, maybe that's the example to look to, instead of initiating email campaigns to divide the town as our opposing ideologies inevitably collide on many issues. And I'm going to just leave you with that. Thank you. MENDENHALL. Next is Alan Acker. ACKER: Madam Mayor and Town Councilmembers, thank you. I am opposed to the motion. I'm not opposed prayer. I'm not opposed to God. I believe in those things. But I worry for this Council, because it appears that without a public invocation, these members, you, will be unable to engage civilly with one another, behave appropriately, seek wisdom, seek compromise, and obtain the benefits as you see fit for this community. Somehow, from the comments, I'm led to believe that without invoking such blessings from God, you will be incapable of doing those things. And yet each of you, presumably, Page 24 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 25 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING are members of a faith tradition. Presumably, each of you pray. Each of you have the ability to seek those virtues and benefits from the Almighty. Each of you, certainly if you wish to, join in other in doing those, can do it. It is difficult, if not impossible, for me to understand how a public invocation will somehow unify the town in some unknown way or somehow unify the Council that, without it, you would fall into disunity. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next we have Fred James. And is Fred here? Oh, you choose not to speak, but he's against it. Okay. Next is Crystal Cavanaugh. CAVANAUGH: Good evening. I actually wasn't going to speak, but the way this was opened up, and it sounded like one opposition after another, I'm not really sure if those were just submitted through the form because I know of numerous, maybe 50, emails that were sent in in favor of reinstating the invocation. So I think that skewed the perception right there. And as you can sec, a lot of people are feeling compelled to stand up to speak about the importance of an invocation. And I actually sent in an email myself to you. And I commented, "While any given community is diverse and does not hold any one belief, those who are spiritual or religious or believe in a higher power in some form would agree that an sincerely spoken invocation that does not push anyone to convert to any specific philosophy is completely acceptable to most people." It's a positive message and usually only a minute. And if someone can't tolerate an invocation for one minute, then life is very frustrating indeed for them. Those who aren't spiritual or religious in any way should have no problem, then, just easily disregarding any of the messages, as it does not pertain to them or negatively impact their lives in any way. Or they can actually just delay entering the chamber and then come in after the invocation. I did find the coordinated campaign against this reinstatement through the online petitions and all the other emails to be a demonstration of intolerance, which is exactly what it is. It's not that the moment of silence is more inclusive, as one of our council members had said to one of my friends. It's not more inclusive. If you don't speak it out loud, it is just your personal, personal interaction. A spoken invocation does no harm to anyone. So I support it. Page 25 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 26 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MENDENHALL: We have Matthew Corrigan. CORRIGAN: Thank you. It's Matthew Corrigan, thank you. Madam Mayor, Council members, 1 also was not prepared to speak tonight on this issue but felt that it was important that I do stand up. There's an old debate technique called the strawman. It's very simple. You build or cast dispersions on an opponent, stating his or her principle or motive. And then you cast all those assumptions on that person. The strawman is either very affective or sometimes laughable. I won't comment on past speakers; it's not appropriate. But I will say that I am a Lutheran, a Confessional Lutheran, maybe not the same type of Lutheran. But I don't -- I do follow God's word, or try to. And what's wrong with that? Were a country based on principles. And we have the First Amendment to guide us. So freedom of speech, an assembly, and faith -- those are important. Maybe instead of arguing about how the Town Council emblem should look or the Town logo, maybe we ought to consider this thing, this little statement here. I don't have a penny, but it's also on the penny. It says right here, "In God we trust." It's real simple. It's a real basic statement. It requires a sort of invocation, if you would, lifting up God rather than ourselves. That's important. Maybe an invocation does that to remind us when we assemble, freely, that that's important, that maybe we should lead with that thought. It's an important thought. At least the people who created this particular currency thought so. And as mentioned before, our founding fathers thought it was so important that they actually included it in founding documents and built this country and allowed all of us to be present here tonight in freedom and faith. MENDENHALL: And the last is just comment in writing that there for it. And that's Gina Waldo. That's the remainder of the speakers for this item. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Appreciate it. Would Council like to comment on this item? Councilman. SKILLICORN: Super brief And thank you for enlightening us how it was changed. One thing, Madam Mayor, was there -- was there a vote on that when it was changed? MAYOR DICKEY: No. These things aren't all the time voted on. These are just our own policies and procedures. And those were both there in 2014-09 that says a moment Page 26 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 17 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING of reflection or an invocation. So it was totally one or the other, not either one of them had more weight than the other. Thank you. Yes, Councilwoman. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. The one thing 1 didn't hear tonight but as I got the email, which were numerous on this topic, was many people were concerned about the rights of atheists. And they said that this would be very unfair to people of no faith. We will draft an ordinance that will include everybody, including atheists. They have a place at the table in Fountain Hills. We -- the letters were kind of, like, the Christians were going to get out the tar and the feathers and run them out of town if an atheist came in this office, in this room, and spoke. That is not true. They would be absolutely welcome here. Matter of fact, I don't' know how they would identify themselves as an atheist. They would just get up and they would say we -- I wish you and my friends with you all the best to get along together, to make good decisions and good judgments, and I wish you all the best, and then sit down. And so the atheists and the minority communities and the religions -- somebody said there was 7,000 religions in this country. You guys probably got that letter. They're all welcomed here, okay? We'll get to you one by one. So thank you. TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I just wanted to quickly clarify that we are going to, of course, welcome everybody. That's something that we -- we wouldn't be able to not do that. So anyone of any faith, any denomination is more than welcome to come and do the invocation. This is not a way to do anything different than what it used to be and what it had been since the beginning of Fountain Hills. MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor. MCMAHON: Good evening. As we've heard, this is a difficult agenda matter that no matter how it is addressed -- because it ultimately ends up being divisive to the Council and our community. If you think about it, the intended audience of the moment of silence and our invocation is addressed to and for the governmental body in session is intended to bring us together for a moment before beginning our sole purpose of getting down to business and representing all members of our town and addressing the agenda matters before us. Historically, religion has been very controversial and divisive, condemning those who may not have the same religious affiliations or any religious beliefs at all. In fact, most Page 27 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 28 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING of the emails in support that we received just -- did just that, presupposed and condemned council members and citizens who may not support a religious or public invocation, who have already been unfairly religiously condemned and labeled intolerant in the social media. Our community is already divided by religious beliefs. Why bring this controversial issue into our nonpartisan and secular council meetings? In addition, Council has an ethical duty to include all members of our community, not just a few. And whether we like it or not, no matter how prayer or an invocation is stated, it is not inclusive of our entire community. Constitutionally and based Supreme Court rulings, invocations must represent all of us and all religions. There is also the constitutional matter of separation of church and state. There is a legitimate concern that when governmental bodies lend their power and prestige to religion, it can amount to governmental endorsement that excludes up to 60 percent of our Fountain Hills community who are not religious. And even when prayers are nondenominational, there is no way that a government body may manage a prayer that will not inviably (sic) exclude, divide, and offend members of our community. Observing the strict separation of church and state offers no one and includes all members -- offends, excuse me -- offends no one and includes all members of your council and our community. We are all free to pray privately or to worship on our own time and in whatever way we choose. Even Jesus in the New Testament condemned public prayer. He said, "Enter into thy closet, and when thou has shut the door, pray to thy Father, which is secret." That's Matthew 6:5 at 13. As elected officials, we take an oath to uphold secular constitutions. To open government meeting with prayer and religious ritual could be in contravention of this oath. We must also consider that our community members of all religions and no religion are compelled to come before us, a government body, secular, to address their civic, secular matters, complain about our streets, address their concerns, obtain permits, licenses, and special use permits. They should not be subjected to a religious invocation or test or be expected to bow heads and demonstrate religious obedience at council meetings and then be labeled intolerant if they choose not to do so. To quote an email sent to us, "This is a town council; this is not a church." And accordingly, we have an Page 28 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 29 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING obligation to avoid even a hint of endorsing religion because it carries with it the higher risk and exposure to lawsuits in opposition of a mandated ordinance and religious invocation or general invocation. We are keepers of our limited budget and cannot afford to defend needless lawsuits. As for a standing tradition, many cities and towns in Arizona choose not to have invocations due to the sheer controversy that surrounds prayer and invocations and the potential to be seen as unconstitutionally endorsing religion. Council chambers is also nonpartisan and a neutral govemment place where all of our citizens are welcomed and represented, not just a few. Our moment of silence is traditional, as well universal and neutral. It is a very, very personal moment where one can choose to pray, self -reflect, meditate, and be thankful, and even come together. Because it is so personal, it does not require any preamble or the imposition of a religious direction on anyone in attendance. And each of us are free to choose how we want to spend that moment. And it also does not result in discrimination, judgments of being intolerant, or denigration of any one of us in our community due to religious or nonreligious affiliations. Our Code of Ethics at 8.5 states that "the chief function of the Council is at all times to serve the best interests of all the people in our community." And accordingly, we have a duty to insure all of our actions at our meetings and our decisions are not in violation of this ethical duty to represent all of our community. And given that primary ethical duty, perhaps this hasn't been given due consideration by putting invocation on the agenda, especially at the first meeting of 2023. Personally, I would prefer that Mayor and Council wait and see if an ordinance can first be drafted that is nondiscriminatory, judgmental, or unconstitutionally favors one religion or endorses a religion and one that it respects all members of our community before deciding on whether to have a mandated religions or nondenominational invocation or to retain our current personal and private moment of silence at future council meetings. I prefer to move to table the matter and take this opportunity so that we, as a secular government body, can seek needed legal advice to learn more about acceptable, legal invocations over possibly voting tonight on an invocation that could result in none of us being happy and exposing the town to a high risk of expensive lawsuits. Thank you. Page 19 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 30 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me. I wanted to say that this whole meeting has been very respectful in treating each other as the neighbors that we are. Some of the words, maybe not, but I think we were just really great. So let's keep that up. Councilwoman Grzybowski, did you have any comments? GRZYBOWSKI: Yeah, Ijust realized I coughed with the mute off. Sony about that. MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry. GRZYBOWSKI: We did get a slew of emails, as the other council people have mentioned. And I tried to reply to as many as I could. Apologies if I didn't get back to you, but I'm recovering from a cold that I brought back from vacation, and dealing with regular after -vacation stuff. A few thoughts based on things that I've read and heard over the past few days. I've heard everyone believes in a higher power. That's actually not true. Many religions do not believe in a supreme deity. I've also heard that the Pledge of Allegiance was mentioned. The Pledge could not -- did not contain the "under God" phrase until 1954. One suggestion was that our invocation he a Christian prayer. Not only does a Christian prayer leave out many of our citizens, but that appears to be in contradiction with the First Amendment. The key for me for an invocation is that it be nondenominational. We should not be promoting one religion over another as a government. The First Amendment provides that we not establish a religion. We should be a defender of religion, all religion. Thank you, Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilwoman. I wanted to mention the emails, too, that we received. And there were a lot. And 1 -- I apologize that I didn't get to respond to all of them either. And I would do -- also want to say, however they were generated, whether people told people that this was coming up -- it was mentioned there were 50 or so that were in favor. So I think that both sides were passionate about it. And all sides -- you know, I hate to think of it as two sides. I think were all a community here. We do have those procedures. They do interchangeably use the word moment of reflection and invocation. 1 continue to think that a moment of reflection or -- or a silent -- excuse me, is a way to proceed. It's very inclusive. It allows those who are present the respect to choose their own thoughts. They are -- they are private thoughts. Page 30 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 31 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING And I would trust that person's faith can be private and strong at the same time. A moment of silence is unifying and inclusive. It was mentioned that it was often invoked when -- at public gatherings or an event. It's not only just for a person to be remembered but for thoughts to be solemn and with honor and in a very unified way. And for the football game, that was, you know, a spontaneous, and any one of us might have done that or not done that. But that was spontaneous and -- and it was their choice. And I've been at football games and other things where they had moments of silence where you can't believe that this entire place is silent. And that's the power that that has. I would hope that we wouldn't -- and that's something, a practice that would cause, as been suggested, that people would wait in the hallway or in the lobby before they would feel comfortable coming in and stating their case, whether it's a resident or staff or somebody making a presentation, someone who needs us to act on something that they need -- if we don't see them stand up -- well, we don't see them do the thing that is seemingly more acceptable. I believe an invocation doesn't unify as would be hoped but that it could serve to exclude some in the community. And we are equally bound to represent everybody. So with -- it is with utmost sincerity and with my serious consideration to this that I would ask my colleagues to please allow the moment of silence to continue. When we made the change, there was never any -- any input at all. I -- I really did not hear from anybody who was upset by it. I don't see it -- you know, we say it's -- that this isn't divisive, but the fact that we have everybody here with different ideas about it shows that there's definitely different opinions about it. And it's like they say. When you talk about politics or religion, it's just always going to be full of passion and your own past, your own family, your own heart. So I would ask to please keep the moment of silence as is. Councilwoman. TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I appreciate and want to thank everyone who came up to speak. I appreciate your passion and I understand that perhaps a lack of feedback when it was originally changed would be because there wasn't a vote for it. And I think we've heard from each of us that wanted to give an opinion. So with that, I move to add the invocation to all future town council meeting agendas as per -- or with Page 31 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 32 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Aaron's input in mind that this must include all denominations and all faiths. MCMAHON: Aaron, when I stated -- when I made the statement to that -- equivocate to a motion to table the matter. ARNSON: Well, I didn't -- I didn't necessarily take it as one. But if you want to make that motion and a second -- MCMAHON: I would like to make a motion to table it so that we can -- TOTH: My motion is on the table, Councilwoman. ARNSON: I'm sorry. Have we gotten -- have we gotten a second? SKILLICORN: Yes. ARNSON: Okay. I'm sorry. All right. I didn't hear. Sony, okay. One moment. Okay. We're going to look to Rule 6.6(c)(2) of the Council Rules of Agenda. It talks about precedence of motions. "When a motion is before the Council, no motion shall be entertained except" in the following -- "except the following, which shall have precedence in the following order." And then it states A through J. One of those is table -- motion to table, motion to postpone to a date certain, and then main motion is the last one. According to our rules, a motion to table can precede. And we can take a vote on that. If it fails, we can vote on the main motion. FRIEDEL: Did she really have a motion, though, Aaron? I don't think it was recognized. ARNSON: Well, if the Mayor -- if the Mayor is recognizing -- MAYOR DICKEY: I was interrupted. KALIVIANAKIS: No. It's actually -- it's my opinion -- MAYOR DICKEY: Let's maintain what we've been able to accomplish. KALIVIANAKIS: If I can weigh in, Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me? KALIVIANAKIS: If I can weigh in. I think Allen made the original motion, and Hannah was -- was the second. MAYOR DICKEY: And I think what Aaron just said is a motion to table would take precedence, but I don't know that were -- if you -- ARNSON: I don't even know if the motion to table has a second. I'm sorry. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we have a motion and a second on the floor -- or at the Page 32 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 33 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING dais, right? ARNSON: We do, on the main motion to -- to add the prayer to all future agendas. Councilwoman Toth made the motion -- Toth. I'll get it. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So what we're saying that Councilwoman's Toth's was the main motion, and then who was the second? SKILLICORN: I had the second. KALIVIANAKIS: I don't understand because when Allen made his motion, I specifically said I wanted to second the motion, and I thought that would have been the second. ARNSON: Yeah, I mean, either way. Whoever wants it -- KALIVIANAKIS: According to Robert's Rules, that was a valid second. ARNSON: Sony, I didn't -- I -- I didn't hear a motion if there was one, so. KALIVIANAKIS: I did -- I did second the motion. ARNSON: Fair enough. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Why don't we just go ahead with the -- with the vote, please. All in favor of adding -- GRZYBOWSKI: Now I'm confused. What are we voting for? What just happened? MAYOR DICKEY: To add -- FRIEDEL: Madam Mayor -- MAYOR DICKEY: We're voting, I believe, to add the invocation to all future town council meeting agendas. Is that your understanding? ARNSON: That's my understanding. SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. SKILLICORN: May I just ask for roll call? MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry. SKILLICORN: May Ijust ask for a roll call? MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, yeah, sure. MCMAHON: Are you ignoring my motion to table it? ARNSON: Well, I -- I don't know that we've received a second, councilwoman. MCMAHON: Thank you. Page 33 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 34 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING ARNSON: If we -- if we, yeah. MCMAHON: I wanted to clarify -- ARNSON: Okay, yeah. MCMAHON: -- so there's no more confusion. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Okay. All those in favor, please say aye, and we'll do a roll call, Linda, please. MENDENHALL. Councilwoman Grzybowski. GRZYBOWSKI: Nay. MENDENHALL- Nay? Councilwoman— GRZYBOWSKI: Correct. MENDENHALL- Councilwoman Kalivianakis. KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL' Councilwoman Toth. KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL Councilmember Skillicom. SKILLICORN: Aye, yes. MENDENHALL- Councilmember Friedel. FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor McMahon. MCMAHON: Nay. MENDENHALL' Mayor Dickey. MAYOR DICKEY: No. MENDENHALL: It passes 4 to 3. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Thank you all for coming out. [APPLAUSE] MAYOR DICKEY: We don't. We're done. We're moving on to the next item. And I hope we will continue this respectful feelings as you go forth. Thank you very much. Our next item is a possible repeal of the sign ordinance, Section 6.07, .08, and Resolution 2012-31. Grady. MILLER: Yes. Councilmember Skillicom asked that I add this to the agenda. There were two other councilmembers, Councilmember Kalivianakis -- I think I said that right. Page 34 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 35 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Thank you, I've been practicing. And also Councilmember Toth have requested that this item come before Council. The understanding is for clarification. And I think I'll turn it over to Councilmember Skillicom. At first, initially, I thought this was for just the amendments that had been passed by the Council previously. But this actual repeal of Section 6.07, 6.08 of the Sign Ordinance and also Resolution 212-31. And I'll turn it over to Councilmember Skillicom who has, I'm sure, some comments on this. SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, 1'll just be brief. I just think it's time for a fresh start. And it is as it -- as we've discussed. And I also believe, since this is not an additional restriction, that a hearing is not required for this action. MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards on this item? MENDENHALL- First I'll mention the ones who wrote in and provided a written comment. Sharon Ehrlich is in support of the current sign ordinance. George Ehrlich is in support of the current sign ordinance. Sherri James is in support of the current ordinance. Patricia Muscarella is in support of the current ordinance. And Barbara Adams is in support of keeping the ordinance. And we do have speaker cards. First is Bob Wilson. WILSON: Not so happy new year. I'm Bob Wilson. I'm a resident -- once proud resident of Fountain Hills. Repeal of sign ordinance -- it was unanimously approved by Council ten years ago, unanimously. Stewardships -- stewardis-ship [sic] of our town demands careful and responsible management of that entrusted to one's care. Our first rule of procedure, we follow Arizona state laws. Here's a headline in the Arizona Republic, August 20th of 2022 after Fountain Hills mayoral and council elections on August 2nd. And it begins, "Fountain Hills election shows party politics in city races." It say, it got ugly when some right wingers sought to establish a conservative majority, painting their left wing opponents -- SKILLICORN: Ms. Mayor, I have a point of order. Point of order. MAYOR DICKEY: Could you stick to the issue of the sign ordinance or, you know, show us how you're going to get there. Thank you. It could be a call to the order-- I mean a Call to the Public, but this is where we actually talk to just the agenda item. Page 35 of89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 36 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING WILSON: All right. I'll just put it in the paper. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MENDENHALL• Next is Betsy LaVoie -- Le-voy. LAVOIE: Good evening. Happy new year. I hope you all had a great, happy holiday, Mayor, Vice Mayor. Newly elected officials, staff, I'm here to bring you some joy for a second. Ready? I am in support of additional provisions added to the current sign ordinance. I am not in favor of starting the whole process over again. I just want to share that the chamber alone worked on this process for approximately seven months and more than a hundred hours to collect data research and collaborate directly with the Town of Fountain Hills, with the Arizona Sign Association, and with the Scottdale Area Association of Realtors, along with the feedback from our business community to come to this current sign ordinance with very specific provisions, such as wayfinding and monument signage for industrial park behind the Target plaza as one example. And there's very specific times that we can add provisions that will be helpful for the business community. Monument signage per business plaza would be very helpful. Consistent language for all would be very helpful. 1 do believe these specific provisions can accomplish was is needed for the good for the good of the entire community without starting all over from scratch. Of course, I'd be happy to be involved in the process for added provisions to the current sign ordinance and for education for our community if that's desired. With clarity and clear communication, I do think that we can -- even, perhaps, a PR piece for our community, for our businesses, for our residents -- that we can really help our community respond to the ordinance and understand it so they can fully utilize it as its intended, which I think is part of the problem, is a misunderstanding of pieces of the ordinance. I can also share with you that Plat 208, to which I'm a board director, is considering additional signage to support the downtown business district, which might be helpful as we move forward. And as we diligently work together, the Chamber of Commerce, Plat 208, town staff, town elected officials -- as well work together to represent our community, both our residents and our businesses, I know that we can confirm that Fountain Hills is the very best town. And that's why I'm here to give you some positivity, Page 36 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 37 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING because we can make some changes without scraping the whole thing and starting over, to really fill the needs of the business community to which I represent. Thank you. MENDENHALL: And Mayor, we have one last request to comment, and that's Crystal Cavanaugh -- for this item. CAVANAUGH: Good evening. Regarding the sign ordinance, I like to consider myself a personal victim of it in the political era that we just went through. And I do believe it was actually weaponized against some of us. And so I find this ordinance to be convoluted and confusing, and like Betsy just pointed out, that maybe you can help the community to understand it. Why should it be so difficult to understand? We spent hours trying to understand it, to make sure we were following all the rules, and yet Code Enforcement still showed up at times. And Code Enforcement themselves didn't even understand the rules. So we would, like, discuss it with them. And then they would say, well, yeah, that -- that's right. Well, let me look at this. Or maybe it's that. They didn't actually know either. And so it was a work in progress to understand it. The fact that that occurred tells me it needs to be revamped, relooked at, and perhaps all thrown out. I heard it was meshed with various ordinance -- various ordinances before. And I think that's why it's so confusing. And some things overlap. And then some things aren't clear. I just think we need one that pertains especially to Fountain Hills. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Okay. That's it. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Oh, I'm sorry. MENDENHALL. Scan Southland. SOUTHLAND: Actually, today somebody came to our business that we got our TCL from about two weeks ago to have us take down an air dancer. So it's on our property. I don't know about the sign stuff. It just -- they said it's against the code. But were a new business, and like anything, we want to do a monument sign. We've gone through that with the City. The plan was to put in a monument sign. We had a budget item. It was covered. And then in the last year it went from 20,000 to 60,000. So now it's out of our budget. So I put an air dancer up. So if you guys are changing the deal or whatever, if you could consider something temporary for new businesses, just to help let people know you're Page 37 ot89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 38 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING open, we do want to put in a monument sign, of course, but it's going to take some time to -- with the increased cost and the way things are going. So I just wanted to make that comment because I think there's other businesses that are probably in the same boat as -- as we are. So anyway, thank you for your time. MAYOR DICKEY: We can have our discussion now if you'd like. Who would like to ask -- yes, Councilman. SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And really one of the -- there's two big reasons I want to move forward with this. There's one -- is that were coining at a time when we had a forced shutdown. A lot of businesses are suffering. I'd like to be able to have those businesses attract customers and get them in the doors. People spend money here. It helps our Town revenue but also helps these businesses. And also, you know, reality is, is right now economy is slowing down, interest rates are going up. We're in a -- you know, recession is starting. We have a lot of local businesses that could be doing better. Let's just say that. We also have plenty of vacant properties that I want tilled. And we need to have new businesses, strong businesses in there. And thcy need to attract customers. And customers need to find them. So that was one of my priorities. I don't think the current ordinance really address that and allow that. But also, I do have some First Amendment issues with the current ordinance and, you know, just as -- as Elon Musk would say is that he is a free speech absolutist. I've got to agree with him on that. I have some problems with the current ordinance and how it addressed the First Amendment. And 1 think it's wise to redo that. And this act of repealing this is not the last move of this Council. It's the first. But I -- I expect a very fast replacement coming online. And I know the people at this table are very well capable of doing that and acting quickly so there's not going to be confusion. But I also have a vision myself, is that during a time of economic distress, like right now, I think there should be more allowances for businesses to have signs up. And down the road, 1 think we need to protect the beauty of our town. [TIMER] [LAUGHTER] SKILLICORN: No. It's a great reminder, because I need a -- I need to wrap it up. I think we want our -- protect the beauty of our Town. But that's going to be phase 2. Page 38 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 39 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING When we start filling up these vacant store fronts, then we can discuss on how do we tighten it up a little bit. So that's all. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. 1 too have a very serious problem with this sign ordinance. Where do I begin? This sign ordinance is not constitutional. It doesn't comport with the Constitution. Political speech is protected speech. There is some of the legislature -- and there was carved out a hospitality exemption for the sign ordinance, which, if we would have comported with, I would not have any problem with this. But instead of having it narrowly tailored, like it should have been, you could talk to any lawyer, and any restriction on speech has got to be narrowly tailored to fit a specific end, okay? This was not. This -- this prohibition of speech reached out to the whole Town of Fountain Hills. It did not protect our hospitality zone. It did not protect our restaurants. It did not protect our casinos. It did not protect our lake and our downtown area. It went all the way out to -- to Timbuktu and beyond and so on. That's -- I've got a real problem with that. And that's one of the reasons I'd like to just do a -- a repeal, root and branch. And the other thing is, just like this gentleman just said with his business, I -- I'd like to know this $20,000 monument, how that went to $60,000. I'll be very interested to find out why there was such a cost overrun when dealing with the City from 20 to 60. Now they can't put up their sign monument? MAYOR DICKEY: What -- why would that be on the Town? KALIVIANAKIS: That's just something that he brought up. Anyway, I've heard from so many business owners that -- that this has been impeding their business, like Allen said. They're losing business. The -- if you take a look at the Rosati's, who would know the Rosati's is there unless they put out a sign in the front. It's just completely buried in that -- in that little store. I -- if I had a dollar from every business owner that told me that this was interfering their business, I could probably buy a business of my own in Fountain Hills. That's how many people have complained. So like Allen said, I think this has got to be repealed completely, and then Town staff should be working on replacing it with something that's sensible and something that people can understand and comport with. Thank you. FRIEDEL: While I agree with both of my councilmembers there, we want to show that Page 39 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 40 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING we are a pro -business. Every sale we make in this town adds to this town's coffers. That's important. So we have to help our businesses succeed. Now, repealing this doesn't mean that were going to get rid of it all. We're going to look at this. Betsy, we need input from you. So make sure that we have the stakeholders with input when we go to redo this and -- and make some revision to this. I have been a long proponent against this sign ordinance in some ways and shapes. People, I think, know that. So we have an opportunity now to make some tweaks to this and get it done right, help our new businesses in town as well. But we need these -- this business communities survive here. Without them, we don't have a town. So I think it's important that we all realize that there's some things we can do to this sign ordinance to make it a little more business friendly, especially heading into unchartered waters that we are right now in the next year. So -- so I'm for a repeal. But again, a lot of it, I think, will come back in the same form. But we need some more input from stakeholders, I think, to get this done so that everybody's happy with it. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman -- Vice Mayor. MCMAHON: Yes. The sign ordinance was discussed numerous times, revised, and unanimously agreed upon by seasoned councilmembers. Personally having visited local business last year with our financial director, we received no complaints about the sign ordinance or proved that it hindered their business. To undo the sign ordinance in any capacity would not be in the hest interest of our community or staff It would mean rehashing it once again. It is a reasonable ordinance, constitutionally enforceable as written. Even our Constitution First Amendment and the U.S. Supreme Court recognizes that signage needs to be regulated. If this is about political signage, our sign ordinance follows state law and mirrors town ordinances. Do you really want a political sign pollution? Even on a temporary basis? It's distracting, messy, divisive in communities. It also invites vandalism. Having participated in enacting the updated sign ordinance that supports local business, provides necessary boundaries for signage in Fountain Hills, prevents unnecessary sign pollution, and keeps Fountain Hills from looking up -- liked a trashed -up Scottsdale at Page 40 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 41 of B9 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING election time, I'm against any repeal in whole or in part. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman Grzybowski, do you have any comments? GRZYBOWSKI: Actually, I do. Thank you for remembering me. I know that those of you that've been around for a while or been watching for a while know that 1 had problems with the sign ordinance as well. We spent a lot of meetings -- there were three discussion -only meetings and I think two voting meetings, so five in all, huge conversations, lots of public input, chamber input, residential input as well as business input. So I feel like we do a really good job of compromising. But I do agree that there are some opportunities that I'd be open to changing. Excuse me. I'm not a fan of repealing something altogether. This I have a problem with. If we completely repeal these particular sections, it can kind of become chaos in my mind. I don't see how that's friendly to the residents at all where they had a problem with many of the signs that were displayed. So we hope to get that under control by compromising on our sign ordinances. I just -- I have a problem with the word repeal. I feel like we should up with a replacement and not just repeal it. That's my opinion. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilwoman. There's a couple other items that we wanted to discuss. One was that the -- any change in zoning that -- which this was, we -- was the result of a public hearing. Just to kind of go back to it a little bit, we -- we met -- well, Planning and Zoning met originally about it. The Council me on January 19th, 2021; February 16th, 2021; April 20th, 2021; and those were the three meetings that Councilwoman Grzybowski was saying that they were discussion only. And then on the 18th of May 2021, that's when we had our first vote. Now, that was to eliminate all -- all the temporary signs, which obviously had some objections to it. So we decided that we would compromise. And so for that summer, that's when we met with the Realtors and the Chamber and several groups. So the current sign ordinance did pass unanimously. It's been in place a little bit more than two years. The political -sign -free zone passed unanimously in 2012 under -- under Mayor Kavanagh. I was on the Council at the time. If you read the minutes, the discussion was to have our town not be cluttered or riddled with the -- with what we do see in other parts of the state during the political season. Page 41 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 42 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING There are a lot of legal things going on, first of all, whether we need to have a hearing in order to change this. And that's something that Aaron can address. Also, if you read the staff summary, this -- by doing this, except for some height restrictions, there will be no regulations on any size -- on any signs regarding size, number, location, or quality. So you all likely have ROW in front of your house, rights of way. So anybody could put any sign there, made of anything, no matter how many, if we have no sign ordinance. And I think that would also bring into play Prop. 207, which was passed in the State of Arizona that cities cannot take action that could potentially lower the property values. And I think for many homes, they may consider that that's -- and that's something that we can talk about in executive session if we feel the need to do that. The banners -- banners, drapes on homes, banners, balloons, you know, inflatable gorillas, flags, all of those things -- there will be no regulation on them. I also want to point out that we never had temporary signs by right in Fountain Hills. We always had them have to be renewed. So every year we'd get a report. And it'd be, like, oh, this was the compliance. And sometimes it wasn't very good. In 2020, when in -- in December of 2020, when it was going to expire, I didn't want it to at that time because of COVID, and so we said, well, let's -- plus we knew that we were going to have to wrestle with the issue that was there since 2015, which was federal government, you cannot regulate signs based on content. So the things that -- Allen, what you were saying, I -- I understand. You want a business sign, you can't say it's a business sign. You can't say it's a real estate sign. You can't say it's a yard sale sign. You can't do that. And yet the State of Arizona gives us a -- rules on what we can do for political signs, which are obviously based on content. So those two laws are in conflict. Ours is not in conflict at all. So I want to put that out there because this repeal has far-reaching -- will resonate with our residents, with our businesses, and I think that we need to put a lot more time and thought into it. And we could possibly need to have a public hearing and another whole process in order for us to do this because that's the way it came to be. And I'm going to turn it over, maybe to you, Aaron, if you would like to -- excuse me? Oh, before Aaron speaks? Okay. Okay, Councilman, go ahead. FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. I think I'd be remiss if I didn't point out the fact that in Page 42 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 43 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING my visits to approximately ten businesses since the sign ordinance was done, I have had complaints from all ten of them about the restrictiveness of our sign ordinance. That is not business friendly. It is not helping our business community. I think that that has to be considered going forward with anything we do. We need more input from them, I think, possibly. I know, myself, when I sat here, 1 went out to 24 businesses in this town and queried them about what kind of business they get from their A -frame signs. And my numbers told me it was about 45 percent of their business. That's huge for any business in this town, in this day and age, especially going into unchartered waters. We have to do a better job of getting the business community involved, the Chamber, and these stakeholders have to have a bigger seat at the table. If it's two chairs, I don't care -- a bigger seat at the table. And we have to get input from them as to what's going to help the businesses survive in this town. I don't think we've done a good job with this current sign ordinance. Mine -- my queries to these businesses in this town tell me that since this has passed. Before, it was even worse. So I think we have a lot of work to do to represent this business community, which is what this Council should be doing, helping our businesses survive and helping them thrive. It makes the town better when the day is done. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman, I feel an obligation to represent the residents as well. And I feel like repealing this as is, not only is -- is risky as far as not having a public hearing and public notice, particularly doing this right after the holidays, when I don't think a lot of people knew or had the opportunity or whatever or were traveling and such. But it also has Prop. 207 ramifications. So I would like Aaron to please tell us -- and it was part of your staff report, the implications of trying to change a zoning ordinance in a -- in a one -fell swoop like this -- ARNSON: Sure. MAYOR DICKEY: -- for lack of a better word. ARNSON: Sure, Mayor. I think I'll answer this question in two parts. The first is the -- what the Mayor just referenced with regard to whether or not we have to have a notice and publication prior to taking this action. That's in the staff report, so I'm comfortable addressing that. Page 43 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 44 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING The second part that I would like to suggest to the Council: It is up to -- it is up to each member of this Council whether they vote to recess into executive session or not. I do not regularly do this, for anyone who has watched council sessions in the past. But I think that the issues that have been brought up are of enough import that I feel that I'd be more comfortable sharing my legal advice in an executive session as to the remaining items as opposed to saying them in public. Again, that's up to each member of the Council. So with respect to Mayor's -- with the first point that the Mayor and perhaps one other councilmember brought up, we do have a statute on point that, out of an abundance of caution, staff has followed. It is ARS 9462.03(6). Excuse me. It provides that, "A zoning ordinance that changes any property from one zone to another," which we're not dealing with, "that imposes any regulation not previously imposed or that removes or modifies any such regulation previously imposed must be adopted following the procedure prescribed in" -- another subsection, which provides for notice and publication. So out of an abundance of caution, my advice in other communities and here, and our historical practice has been to provide notice and publication. I will concede that the statute is not clear, that this constitutes a zoning ordinance, although it is contained in our zoning ordinance, or that we're not removing or modifying a regulation. So we have proceeded out of that, from that cautionary perspective. And I'll leave that with respect to what the Mayor brought up. I'm happy to answer any questions on that or happy to answer those questions in executive session should we have amotion and we recess into -- into executive session. MCMAHON: Aaron, do we -- do we have to vote on it tonight or can we move to discuss it further, like in executive session, et cetera, so that we all have more clarity and better understanding in that we -- if we -- if it is going to be amended, that we can do it carefully and get our businesses and other people who want to be involved. ARNSON: Mayor and Councilmember, the agenda always has language at the very beginning, or somewhere on the agenda, that says that with respect to any agenda items, the council can recess for legal advice. So we -- we can do that tonight if that's within the Council's purview to do so. Page 44 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 45 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MCMAHON: Do we have to do that or can we just, like, choose not to vote on it right now and then have a noticed executive session about it later on? ARNSON: That -- I think there's two options, Mayor and Council. The first option would be to -- of course, if there's no motion made, which I don't anticipate -- if there's no motion made, of course no action can be taken. If a -- if the motion -- if the motion is to table or continue, then that would be second option. And of course, that motion would have to carry; you know, we'd have to -- someone would have to secure a simple majority vote to continue it. Otherwise, if the motion is to repeal, as stated in the staff report, and that carries a simple majority, that will be the action of the night. That was three options, not two. Those are the options. MAYOR DICKEY: I would -- the ideas of going into it now and -- it's getting late and such. So if -- if anybody would entertain the idea of having executive session before our next meeting and discussing this item. And then we can discuss the Prop. 207 stuff And then moving from there, I would appreciate that, if anyone's willing. MCMAHON: I'd like to make a motion — SKILLICORN: I'd actually like to make a motion to repeal. KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to second. MAYOR DICKEY: Any further discussion on that item? KALIVIANAKIS: I think that is really -- GRZYBOWSKI: Did Peggy try to make a motion first? MCMAHON: Yes, I did. MAYOR DICKEY: I saw his light was on, but she can make a motion to table now anyway and it would have -- ARNSON: Yeah. This is the same as the last one. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. It would have precedence. MCMAHON: I was going to make motion to table this and move to have an executive session before our next council meeting about it with public notice. I think that's fair to all of our businesses, to the Chamber, and to the residents. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MCMAHON: I think hastily appealing -- the magnitude of the sign ordinance that is constitutionally sanctioned is irresponsible. Page 45 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 46 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING KALIVIANAKIS: Ms. Mayor -- MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: I'm sorry. Excuse me. If I may -- if I may -- MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second? KALIVIANAKIS: -- if I may address the Council? MAYOR DICKEY: Sony. MCMAHON: I made a motion. KALIVIANAKIS: You're right, Aaron. This -- this came up before, this came up again. If you have a motion with a second, it is out of order to put another motion on top of a motion. MCMAHON: I didn't. I started my motion before you rudely interrupted me. MAYOR DICKEY: The -- earlier our attomey had said that a motion to table took precedence. So -- SKILLICORN: Is that what you said? ARNSON: That -- that's what's listed in our Rules of Procedures, Mayor and Council, that they'll be considered in order A through J with a motion to table to be considered before the main motion that's on the floor. MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second to table? GRZYBOWSKI: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And this can pass with a simple majority, correct? ARNSON: Yes. Any motion to table can pass with a simple majority, as with the main motion. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And the motion was to table it so that we would bring it back again on the next meeting. So all in favor of tabling, please say -- SKILLICORN: Madam, may I be acknowledged? MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry? SKILLICORN: Usually when we'd had a second we can -- we can have a discussion. MAYOR DICKEY: We can't discuss the motion to table. It's not a debatable item. SKILLICORN: Then I would request a roll call. MAYOR DICKEY: All those in favor -- well take a roll call, fine. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis. Page 46 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 47 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING KALIVIANAKIS: Could you repeat the motion? Is it the motion to table? ARNSON: This is the motion to table -- MAYOR DICKEY: It's the motion to table until the next meeting. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. I vote against. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth. TOTH: Nay. MR. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicom. SKILLICORN: I vote no to table. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey. MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor McMahon. MCMAHON: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel. FRIEDEL: No. MENDENHALL. Councilmember Grzybowski. GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL: It's 4 to 3. MAYOR DICKEY: Motion to repeal is on the table here. It was seconded? KALIVIANAKIS: It was seconded by me. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All in favor, we'll take a roll call on this one of repealing the Fountain Hills sign ordinance. Please, we'll do a roll call. MENDENHALL. Councilmember Toth. TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL Councilmember Skillicom. SKILLICORN: Yes. MENDENHALL. Mayor Dickey. MAYOR DICKEY: No. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor McMahon. MCMAHON: No. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel. FRIEDEL: Yes. Page 47 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 48 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MENDENHALL. Councilmember Grzybowski. GRZYBOWSKI: No. MENDENHALL. Was that a no? GRZYBOWSKI: Correct. I am against repealing. MENDENHALL. Okay. And Councilmember Kalivianakis. KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL. Ayes 4 to 3, pass. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you. We'll move on to the next item. [APPLAUSE] MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. We're done with that one now, please. We are going to be discussing adopting planning and zoning recommendations relating to community residences that were modified or not acted on by the Town Council previously. Grady. MILLER: Yes. Councilmember Allen Skillicom had requested this item to be added to the agenda for tonight. And Councilmember Toth and Friedel have requested that this item be on as well. Specifically, they ask that the council consider making changes to the ordinance as approved by the Council on May 3rd, 2022, and to consider including the items that were recommended by Planning and Zoning that were not adopted or were modified at that council meeting. And I'll turn it over to Councilmember Skillicom, who had requested this agenda item. SKILLICORN: Thank you, Manager Miller, Mayor. I just want to quickly give people a little bit of background. I also want to give opportunity to people to speak. So the Planning and Zoning unanimously approved a set of recommendations for the sober treatment homes that -- some of the requirements on there were additional distance between homes, an insurance requirement, a definition of the family, and also a -- a more stringent cap of unrelated people living in those homes. I really want to hear from the public on this. But I will give everyone here a little bit of a precursor -- is that the Town Manager and 1 spoke about this. And I know that the attorneys involve this -- there is a posting requirement for a hearing that would be necessary for this. So I would like to hear from the public, but I will be modifying my motion to table until the -- Manager Miller, what was the date we can do this hearing? Page 48 or 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 49 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL. MEETING MILLER: I believe it's actually February because, John, we've got publication deadlines. And I believe it's a fifteen -day requirement. Is that correct, John? So I believe the first earliest that we can bring it back would be -- was it February 7th? I think -- l put it in the staff report, I think, here. Yes, February 7th would be the earliest that it could come back, Councilmember. SKILLICORN: So yeah, we'll -- my -- we'll be modifying my motion to table it until February 7th. But I still really look forward to the comments of the people -- of the public. MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we have three. The first one is Jim Sawicki. Hopefully I said it correctly. Probably not. SAWICKI: Hi. Excuse me, it's Jim Sawicki. And happy new year to all of you. I'm glad to be here. We've been out of town a lot, so we're not totally up to speed with the implications of what's going on related to these rehab houses. But my wife and I just have a few questions while we're in the investigative process. And we'll probably be getting -- interacting with you more as well. The number one is what benefit is there to the community to have these houses here? Number two, they're going into residential areas. What can -- who decides what, where, and when? Number three, are we looking at a successful business that's in conjunction with the insurance companies, the government agencies, and the locations that they'll be placing these homes in? When you -- when you see that they're -- the fees to go into these homes are conning, some of them $20,000 a month, I guess insurance is paying for it and the -- and the govemment is also kicking in on it. It looks to me to be probably a pretty good cash cow and a very, very good business. Is our community going to be taken advantage of? Is our safety going to be put at risk? Have we got information from all those other communities that have these houses to the extent of the success that they -- they have been? We can't find any documentation. They say there successful. When they leave the house, they're not drinking and they're not doing dope. But that may be only until they get to the next liquor store or get themselves a fix. We've not been able to find reliable Page 49 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 50 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING information that would tell us that in fact what the success of these homes are. So I would like to get back to you at a later time when I get more information. And I thank you for my time. Those are just a few questions I thought I d put out to you this evening. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next we have Crystal Cavanaugh. CAVANAUGH: I didn't know this would be such a busy night. However, this topic I can't let go by, obviously. I've kind of been involved in this in pushing for some safety measures from the get -go, within legal limits. In Planning and Zoning, in the past, had come up with some very well researched, you know, regulations in order to protect the community with occupancy and distance and insurance and just various things of that nature. I strongly support revising the ones that -- this last ordinance that was passed by the previous council. While it was a good start to adding some protections, I think more could be done. And so I support the original Planning and Zoning program. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next is Matthew Corrigan. CORRIGAN: Thank you, Linda. Again, it's Matthew Corrigan. Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, this is a -- you may say it's a complex issue. I don't see it that way. I see it more a solution, the wrong solution. It's a problem. It's a big problem. But it's not Fountain Hills' problem. And I speak from personal experience. I'm a recovering alcoholic of 38 years. And I can tell you that it is an individual task to recover, with the help from God. It is not something that's resolved in a home situation where neighborhoods are devaluated, where crime rates go up. And let me explain that. There are other avenues, other approaches. We need a solution. This just happens to be the wrong solution. I lost a brother last year to alcoholism. So it's -- it' s personal. But it's also methodical. You don't take a $600,000 home, a $900,000 home, a $1.5 million home and devaluate it by bringing a group, a community with issues, dependency issues -- drugs alcohol, what have you. There are many other options that are much better, AA for example. Rescue missions, very effective. Why? Because they have requirements for sobriety and also have a program to bring those people who have this problem back into society with jobs, with training, with education, with a future. Page 50 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 51 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Those places, those enterprise -- those enterprises are already there. We do not need this in Fountain Hills. I'm a homeowner. I'm a resident. But I don't ask that my neighbor or your neighbor -- Madam Mayor, I don't mean to point -- anyone of your -- you members of the Council, would you -- personal question -- would you want this to be your neighbor? Putting it down to brass tacks. Really? There are much better ways to approach this. This is not the answer. I speak from logic, from knowing and supporting, rescue missions, charities, and groups that actually know what they're doing and have solutions for these people who are dependent on drugs and alcohol. And in the past, I was one. I speak from experience. Please reconsider this. Please bring it back. 1 think it's a good idea. The Council has the right approach. And reconsider this. MENDENHALL: Next we have Lori Troller. TROLLER: Me again. I would love to bring the emotional value to this topic. It gets me. But I can't. I'm a very technical person. I've done so much of the research that Planning and Zoning has used. So I know from a lot of the legal standpoint that we have -- what we put into motion already, what we've -- what was decided on is not as far as we can go. So it's -- we can -- it can be a lot stronger than it is, and it -- we just -- we just need to be there. So you were asking, what's the public -- how's the public feeling? Here's this public. This public is feeling we can put more protections in. Completely legal. I -- it's -- it's very confusing as to why that didn't happen. And that's okay. I don't need to understand that. Let's just do it. And that's it. Thank you. MENDENHALL. Next is Alex Boutselis. BOUTSELIS: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, thank you for letting me speak. Councilman Skillicorn, thank you for bringing this issue up. It's important to a lot of town residents. Just by way of context, so I'm an emergency radiologist. I work for a major university. I work nights. There isn't a night that goes by I don't see a victim of substance use disorder, addiction. I see people overdosing on fentanyl. It's pouring across our borders in this country. I see the consequences of car accidents -- all sorts of things. I serve on the board of a nonprofit that distributes Narcan. I wrote the first standing Page 51 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 52 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING script in the State of Indiana for Narcan, which is the opioid reversal drug. It's an issue deep to the hearts of our family. We had a family member who suffered with this disease and is in recovery now and was in part of a sober -living community. All that being said, if you talk to people who have been in recovery, who have been in some of these sober -living communities, they'll tell you, a lot of these are very not well run, to put it bluntly. A lot of these places set up just to make money. They take desperate parents, desperate people. They get their money. They put people who are in recovery, or very little recovery, with no supervision in these houses. And it's a disaster. And it does not lead to long-term recovery. I think that the Planning and Zoning recommendations that were put forth are very reasonable restrictions. There needs to be some pretty tight regulations on these houses, not just for the sake of the residents of Fountain Hills to protect our property values -- I mean, I'm all for that -- but I'm talking about protecting the people whose lives are at stake in these houses. And if we let these things go unrun, ungoverned, unsupervised, we're not doing them a favor, as well as we're not doing ourselves a favor. I've heard a lot of talk. Whenever I hear "abundance of caution" from attorneys -- no offence, any attorney -- it makes me -- it ruffles my feathers a little bit. As a physician, I heard abundance of caution so many times coming from the mouths of public health officials. And they shut our country down. It was wrong then. This is the same kind of thinking, this over -protective thinking. Okay. There's always risk to doing these kind of things. You have to balance a lot of different factors. I get that. That's why you as a Council are sitting here to make these deliberations. You listen to legal counsel. Okay. But sometimes you have to draw a line in the sand and do what's right for the residents of the community. And if that means fighting off a ridiculous legal challenge from somebody, like a company wants to make too much money, so be it. That's why we pay our attorneys in this -- in this city. And I as a taxpayer have no issue if the Council follows reasonable recommendations, like P and Z, then we have fight off a legal challenge, so be it. That's why we have attorneys, not that I want to make it attorneys, you know, wealthy for no reason whatsoever. But I think Planning and Zoning spent a lot of time on this. They made some very reasonable, Page 52 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 53 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING you know, fair recommendations. And I would urge the Council to follow them as they move forward. Thank you. MENDENHALL• And our last speaker is Rick Waddle or Watts. WATTS: Watts. MENDENHALL- Watts. WATTS: Madam Mayor, Council members. Rick Watts, 35-year resident Fountain Hills and Planning and Zoning Commissioner. I've got a unique observation on this, that not only did Planning and Zoning make stronger recommendations than what were passed, the significantly watered-down version, as I look at it, we did our due diligence. We did our homework. We did more -- I've done more work personally on this issue. It was a -- it became a second job -- all of the information. The regulations that we recommended or the recommendations that we provided were strict but within the confines of the law. We've looked at it. We tested it. We made sure we got consensus. And I ask you to reconsider and pass the full version, not the watered- down version. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: That's it, then? Okay. So do we want to discuss or do we want -- you know, I think I have a couple of responses. I don't know if anybody else does. Yes, okay. KALIVIANAKIS: Just briefly. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman. KALIVIANAKIS: Since it looks like we're going to table this, I'll just make my comments brief. Thanks to Commissioner Watts for giving us your informed opinion. Thank you for all the work that you've done to form the original Planning and Zoning version. I'm sure you worked countless hours, and we appreciate that. One of the speakers asked, "What value does this bring to Fountain Hills?" I think that's a well -stated question. What value do these homes bring to Fountain Hills? I don't see a lot of upside. I see a lot of downside in property values. And I know that there's been reports of a lot of drug paraphernalia that's been around these sober -living homes. I know it's anecdotal, and so I'll just go with that. Two days ago I spoke to John Kavanagh about this very issue. He's state senator now. He assured me that the State is looking into getting inspections for sober -living homes Page 53 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 54 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING where we can take a peek inside and see what's going on. I think that's absolutely essential. These are businesses and our communities -- the people inside, it was pointed out, deserve a certain level of care. Our regulation, I believe, calls for six people, at this point, to be in there. Wonder if they had 12 or 20 or 40 living in the garage? How would we know? We wouldn't. How do we know the people are being treated well and don't have bed sores? How do we know that they're being fed well? All the restaurants that I know in town have the inspectors that go in there and check the quality of the food. My friend Jill at Good Living Greens, I'm sure they inspect you regularly. So why are these exempt from those kind of just simple regulations that we expect from all from all of our businesses? So I hope John Kavanagh has success. After the requirements of time and when this comes back, I will be after eager to support the original Planning and Zoning version of this ordinance. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Comments or questions? You bought up the state, and the state is the licensing agency for these residents. And it is their responsibility to do these inspections. And they had said that they were understaffed. But the inspections and the insurance were two items that were pretty clear cut, not something that the city can do. So unless something does change there -- and of course, why are they here? It's a federal and state law. So I think these things were really discussed, and that's what led to the ordinance that we -- that we eventually did pass. And the only no vote on that was because they didn't want quite as much restrictions. So -- and the six people but one of the is employ -- or are the staff So there's five people. We did spread it out as far as the distance between them. So there were a lot of -- a lot of good faith work done to arrive at this. And you will probably hear from other Planning and Zoning members, if you haven't already, that were -- we're satisfied with what we came up with because they were a part of it. So anyway, we will move this on to the -- oh, well, you make your motion, and then we'll decide. Or if you want to say anything, it's up to you. SKILLICORN: Well, Madam Mayor, procedurally -- MAYOR DICKEY: He wants to table it. SKILLICORN: -- do we want to vote on the table or -- so I'll make a motion to table this Page 59 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 55 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING item until the February 7th meeting so we can have a properly posted hearing. TOTH: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All those in favor of tabling this item, please say aye. ALL: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? Tabling passes unanimously. Thank you. GRZYBOWSKI: I meant to say aye. Ijust touched the button, sorry. MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. I thought I heard your -- your response. Sony about that. Our next item is -- GRZYBOWSKI: That's okay. MAYOR DICKEY: -- talking about indoor shooting range, public -- this is the public hearing. So we will hear -- I can open the public hearing. I'll do that. We'll hear from staff and people, and then we'll discuss. Thank you. Grady. MILLER: I'm going to have -- is it Farhad or is it John will be coming up? Farhad Tavassoli will be giving the presentation and staff report on this particular item. TAVASSOLI: Actually -- good evening, Madam Mayor and members of the Council. Before we get started on the site -specific indoor shooting range proposal, I think it would be best to begin with the proposed text amendment, as one is dependent on the other, so. F -- okay, very welt. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. Thank you. The public hearing on the -- TAVASSOLI: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: -- the first item. Yeah, thanks. TAVASSOLI: All right. Okay. Good evening again, Madam Mayor, members of the Council, and the public. So what you have before you is the Zoning Ordinance text amendment to allow indoor shooting ranges in all four of our commercial zoning districts. However, in the C-C and the C-2 -- excuse me -- C-C and the C-1 zoning districts we are proposing a special use permit requirement. And in the C-2 and C-3 -- yes, sir? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I don't think your mic is on. TAVASSOLI: I beg your pardon. Oh, okay. I'll just hold it closer to my -- to my mouth. Sure. There we go. So as I was saying, the proposal is to allow indoor shooting ranges in the C-2 and C-3 Page 55 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 56 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING district with a special use permit, depending on the type, and also by right for other types. So this request comes before you by direction -- following direction from Planning and Zoning Commission. The indoor shooting ranges are not specified in the zoning ordinance. There has been increased interest in this use, and that is why we come before you. As I mentioned earlier, the very beginning of my presentation, the proposal is to allow indoor shooting ranges in the C-C, C-1, C-2, and C-2 zoning districts with a special use permit, depending on the type. And I have a table that we'll follow that will break this down. Has a pretty good summary. And also to allow it in the C-2 and C-3 by right, depending on the type once again. We thought it would be appropriate to, before we move forward with the text amendment proposal, that we define, exactly to avoid any ambiguity, what an indoor shooting range is. And so we propose the following definition. "An indoor shooting range is an enclosed, permanent building open to the public or members of an organization where firearms are discharged at targets." So the commercial zoning districts -- as I mentioned, there are four. The first two lower, less intense commercial zoning districts include the Community Commercial and the Neighborhood Commercial zoning district, the C-C and C-1, respectively. They are primarily interested to serve surrounding neighborhoods with small commercial enterprises and services for the community. In the C-2 are the intermediate commercial and the C-3, general commercial, are the -- these are higher in intensity and serve a larger market area. Now, what we are proposing, based on direction from the Planning and Zoning Commission, is to allow indoor shooting ranges in the C-C and C-I commercial districts if certain criteria are met. So with regard to the C-C and C-1 districts, we propose a text amendment that would allow member -based indoor shooting ranges that implement an AR-500 bullet trap design. It's more than a mouthful, so I'll explain what that means. That's basically a -- indoor shooting ranges that can withstand 50-caliber guns or rifles. So again, the text amendment proposes a text amendment that will allow this with a special use permit, which ultimately would be reviewed by Council before any type of action is taken. Within the same zoning district, the C-2 and C-1, any kind of indoor shooting range that Page 56 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 57 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING would have a bullet trap designed that is great than AR-500 or is nonmember based would not be allowed under this zoning districting -- under these two zoning districts. As far as the C-2 and C-3 zoning districts, the member -based AR-500 or equivalent types would be allowed by right in the C-2 or C-3 districts. And SUPs would be required for any bullet trap designs that would exceed the AR-500 bullet trap design. I should make mention that with regards to member -based indoor shooting ranges, the requirements accepts law enforcement -- as proposed, accepts law enforcement and military personnel and special events, such as hunting clubs, fraternal orders, things like that that might want to organize special events within these types of facilities. So to conclude with our analysis and recommendation, a text amend -- staff believes, as does Commission, that the text amendment responds to recent interest in establishing indoor shooting ranges. And you'll see special use permit requests in the following agenda item. It provides a definition and recognizes it as a distinct use. It expands the inventory of potential sites. It encourages a detailed analysis of such factors as traffic impacts, appearance, noise, and business hours. It provides some opportunity by the Council to control the use in specific areas. And as I mentioned, the Planning and Zoning recommended approval as presented -- drafted and presented before you this evening. With that, I'll conclude my comments and open up for questions or discussion. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any speaker cards on this items? MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Questions from Council? Anybody have any questions? All right. Well, the motion is on page 316 -- KALIVIANAKIS: I'll make a motion to approve Ordinance 22-08. GRZYBOWSKI: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. COUNCILMEMBERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? MCMAHON: Nay. MENDENHALL: Passes 6 to 1. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do you have the next item, too? TAVASSOLI: I sure do. Page 57 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 58 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. TAVASSOLI: With approval of the text amendment, I now introduce you to a site - specific proposal for an indoor shooting range in the C-1 zoning district, which, again, requires a special use permit. The subject property is located about 1,400 feet or so southeast of the intersection of Shea Boulevard and Saguaro and just north of SR87. It is an existing unit of a much longer building. However, this particular unit sits on its own parcel. The parcel itself is about 6,200 square feet, so a little bit over an acre. The building itself is about 7,500 square feet. The applicant, again, is proposing an indoor live fire range. There is currently a gun shop there right now, which is allowed by right under the C-1 zoning district. So -- and I discussed this a little bit in my previous presentation about the text amendment, but I thought I'd go over some of the more specific provisions and zoning ordinance regarding the C-1 zoning district, which is the neighborhood commercial and professional, which would accommodate that type of use. They're designed -- modest, well -designed commercial enterprises to serve a surrounding residential neighborhood, as well as provide for services to the community. It is also intended to integrate limited commercial activity and professional offices with residential land uses in a climate favorable to both. And particular attention -- there's particular attention to the interface between commercial and professional uses and the residential uses within the same neighborhood. Again, this aerial photograph just gives you an idea of the interplay of the different zoning designations surrounding the subject property. As you can see, one of the older phases of Fire Rock as located to the south and a little bit to the east, across Sirius Wash. To the north is a multi -family development. A number of intermediate commercial uses are right across the street. And, of course, the Red Rock Business Center is located to the north -- northeast of the parcel. Here is an overall site plan that the applicant has provided. This includes the entirety of the commercial center, which was actually built and completed in 2008. And tenants have gradually come in. However the gun shop and the proposed indoor shooting range would be the first use established within this particular unit. The area -- the subject property is -- here where you can see my -- me whirling my cursor Page 58 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 59 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING there, again, it's a 7,500 square foot unit. About half of that is set aside for the indoor shooting range, that being the portion of the building that's closes to Fire Brick Drive to the -- to the east. This is a closer look of the -- at the gun shop of this unit specifically. Again, the area hatched is the area being proposed for the indoor shooting range. A rendering -- I'm not sure if those tensile structures are out there right now, but this is ultimately -- the facility will look like. Again, just give you kind of an idea of the visibility of this particular building, this is taken from Shea Boulevard. There's an extensive gap in between Shea Boulevard and the unit. Obviously, some landscaping elements already installed there. The -- this is -- the photo on the left is taken from within the commercial center, looking at the unit proposed for the indoor shooting range. And the photo to the right is taken from Fire Brick Drive. As you can see on the far left, there is a -- about an eight -foot wall separating the commercial center with the residential -- existing residential property on the west. And as you can see in the foreground, there's a ADA access provided from Fire Brick Drive. So the Council is advised to apply the review standards for the special use permit as per Section 2.2 of the ordinance. Again, the indoor shooting range that I presented before you, the proposed indoor shooting range in the C-1 requires and SUP. Some of the things that the Council should consider are the nature of the use, special conditions, proposed location of the buildings and the parking, and traffic impacts and influence on adjacent uses. Again, staff recommends approval, as did the Planning and Zoning Commission. Staff believes it's consistent with the general plan, goals, and policies. And given the measures taken by the applicant, staff agrees that it's compatible with the adjacent neighborhoods. I'll open up for discussion and questions. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Do we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: We have a comment card that s statement -- MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. MENDENHALL. -- and it's from Jeff Flynn. He only supports a suitable, logical buffer. And that's the only comment we have. Page 59 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 60 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. The -- does anybody have any questions? Yes, councilman? SKILLICORN: Very brief Thank you very much for your time. This again proves that Fountain Hills is open for business. I'm very excited to have another business to come to town. A lot of people ask me, like, what are activities we have to do in Fountain Hills? Well, yeah, we have another activity to do here. So very excited to hear that. And it's also refreshing to see two members of Planning and Zoning, at least two, that are here, that put this work together, and staff that put this work together, worked with the business and found a -- a business that can stay here, that can thrive with us and be good neighbors for a facility that, you know, was really underutilized in the past. And the only other, the only concern I have is -- looking at this comment from the -- one of the neighbors, is that we want to make sure that they are good neighbors. You know, is there a -- I saw this little wall. Ijust want to make sure that landscaping is going to be up to par as a buffer. And I know, you know, the lighting -- I'm sure the lighting is going to be within code so it's not going to disturb their views. But I just want to double-check if that's the case because, you know, we welcome the business; were also good neighbors. FRIEDEL: You know, Allen, maybe I can allay some of your fears there. I've been down here three times. Once I met the owners of this business. They've done a fantastic job with the landscaping. There is not only a buffer, that wall there, but there's also a wash that separates the residential area from this business. And to show what a good neighbor this guy is, he actually replaced and shielded the lights on the back of that building so that anybody from behind that building wouldn't be affected by lighting up his parking lot, because he does have a business there and there are security concerns, you know. So I just want to say, you know, I've seen a lot of businesses in this town do a lot of work in buildings. This building, from what it was to what it is today is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was. And Ijust want to say that I think he's done an outstanding job rehabilitating a building that was actually sitting vacant for years, and it was a mess. So anyway, I've been down there several times. Been around the neighborhood. Talked to one of the neighbors that had concerns. And I think it's a good fit for that location. And again, it's a members -only club. So it's not going to be something that people are going Page 60 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 61 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING to be driving in off the street and using, which wouldn't probably be a good thing there, so. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman Grzybowski, did you have any comments? GRZYBOWSKI: Nothing really. I did listen to the November 14th Planning and Zoning meeting this morning, and I was impressed that one of the neighbors stood up and talked about how they increased the lighting for security purposes, and she -- she liked that. They're often working with her about lighting on the interior; there was a problem. They seem very open to talk to the neighbors. I was very impressed, listening to the meeting this morning. I don't have any questions at all, and I completely support this. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilwoman. The other part is the use of it is really not -- I'm sorry; I didn't realize -- but just that the use of it isn't really -- you know, it's not really changing the nature of it. And so 1 think that the buffer sounds really good. Councilwoman. TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I just want to say ditto to what I've heard so far. We're very excited to have you. Welcome to Fountain Hills, and thank you for being fantastic business owners, willing to work with the community, and hopefully I'll see you there soon. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Anybody want to make a motion? SKILLICORN: I'll make a motion approve number 8-G. FRIEDEL: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. COUNCILMEMBERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? MCMAHON: Nay. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Passes 6 to 1. SKILLCORN: Madam Mayor, can we take a short recess? MAYOR DICKEY: I don't know. Is it in the book? Of course we'll take a -- ten- minute? Five-minute? SKILLICORN: Five minutes. MAYOR DICKEY: Five minute recess. Thanks. Page 61 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 61 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2013 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING [A recess was held] MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We'll resume. Our next item is going to be the update on our traffic management process with David. Hi. JANOVER: Good evening, Mayor and Council, members of the public. I'm Dave Janover, your town engineer. Pleased to present to you tonight our update to the traffic -- the Neighborhood Traffic Management Process or NTMP. It's a policy document that was adopted in 1998. So we saw this as a good opportunity to update the document and bring it to the 21st Century, kind of get rid of some ambiguities in the document, and really just update it and make it -- make things much more clear. So the purpose of this document was to outline the process for citizens requesting speedhumps or speed cushions to slow traffic where possible speed issues exist. And this document contains a lot of' information in there, or at least the earlier version did. So traffic calming measure that were discussed in this early -- in this 1998 document really aren't relevant to what we use today. They included chokers, gateways, intersection channelization, meeting barriers, neckdowns, raised intersections, delineators, and several other traffic calming devices that we really don't -- that aren't really relevant to what we do as far as current practices here in Fountain Hills. Now, while all of these are tools in the traffic calming toolbox, they are generally not a part of our residential street traffic calming practice. What we typically do, our general approach is -- for traffic calming is through pavement management or pavement striping and signage and, if warranted and appropriate, speedhumps and speed cushions. And that's what really the -- the foray of this document is. So we took this opportunity to update the policy document. And we streamlined it to focus on the speedhump and speed cushion request process. And what we did was we developed some structural details for speedhumps and cushions, which I'm going to get into in a few moments and define those for you. We updated and enhanced the criteria for when speedhumps or cushions can be installed. Mainly things are based on speed, but also the roadway itself. So we need to make sure everything is aligned properly before we can go ahead and put these in. We updated the neighborhood petition requirements and that process, that review process, as the neighbors need to also be favor of installing these traffic calming devices. Page 62 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 63 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING We added some information to the policy. There was a document on the construction process and the cost of the installation. And we also described the process for removal of speedhumps once they're put in, if the neighborhood wants them removed. We also added, in the document, to more align with what we do now, the review and approval by the Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee, which some of you are on, before these devices can be installed. They need to be reviewed and approved by the Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee. So we aligned the document to match that practice. So the -- one of the things we did was we wanted to define what the speedhumps and speed cushions really were. And so this is really more of a primer, but I'll go through this very briefly. So a speedhump, you can see here on the upper photo on the right, they're used to slow the flow of traffic on local two-lane residential streets, and they're placed across the entire roadway. They leave enough room on the sides for drainage if there's a valley gutter or what have you. But pretty much, it's just a raised piece of asphalt that causes approaching vehicles to slow down. And again, we want to put them in when and where they're warranted. Now, the photo below that is a speed cushion. And the difference between a speedhump and speed cushion -- well, the first one, what they have in common is that they both are meant to slow down traffic, but the speed cushion is mainly used on three -lane roads, one lane in each direction with a two-way center turn lane. And the speed cushions contained these road -level gaps. You can probably see -- let's see -- right here you can see there's like no speed cushion at these two center locations. There's -- just level with the road. Well, that is there for a reason. And that is actually based on the wheel measurements of our firefighting trucks so that in emergency situations for our firefighters, they can actually come down, right down the center of the street without having to worry about slowing down and being obstructed by this, this bump, whereas for everybody else, you, you and myself, our road -- our vehicles have a different wheel measurement. So no matter what we do, were going to be -- were going to have to slow down. So I -- I had actually discussed this with Dave Ott. We got the measurements, and that was based on that. Page 63 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 64 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Also, we need to know that the roadway that's receiving these speed cushions and speed humps are qualifying themselves. So the volume on the roads have to be less than 5,000 vehicles per day. The maximum posted speed has to be 30 miles per hour. So nothing -- nothing higher than a 30 mile per hour speed limit. So usually it'll be, like, 25 or 30 miles per hour; that's what -- what we'll be dealing with. Street's got to be no wider than three lanes. So we're not going to be doing this on our arterial roads like a Palisades or Fountain Hills Boulevard. You'll never see a speedhump or a speed cushion on any of those roadways. The measured speed -- and that's really the most important -- the measured speed must meet criteria. And I'll go through what the speed criteria are. And also, the public safety agencies must approve the devices. So Rural Metro and Maricopa County Sheriffs offices will all be notified of a new location, and they'll be able to review and approve those locations as well. And again, as I mentioned before, it's subject to the approval by the Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee. Okay. So by far the largest factor in determining if a speedhump or a speed cushion is applicable and warranted is if the measured speed is the measured speed on the roadway. If we find that someone comes to us say, hey, there's a lot of speeding down my street, well go out there, we'll do a measurement, and we'll find out what those speeds are. And if the speed is above a certain threshold, it's warranted. If it's below the threshold, it's not. It's pretty straightforward. But we do kind of have a little bit of a -- some categories here. So the first thing we look at is the -- the 85th percentile speed. And the 85th percentile speed is widely used in the engineering industry by traffic engineers. And that's the speed at which 85 percent of the traffic is traveling at or below. So what we'll do is we will observe the speeds, and based on the speeds that we see, there'll be three possible outcomes. The first outcome is that the observed speed is lower than the criteria, than the minimum criteria to warrant these devices. And then with that the speed hump or the speed cushion is no warranted. That's the end of the process. The second outcome is that the observed speed sightly exceeds the minimum criteria. And so the speedhumps or cushions can be installed, but they would be installed and funded -- or they would be installed by us but funded by the neighborhood, whether it be Page 64 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 65 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING the HOA or the liaison or whoever is involved. They would be picking up the cost of the installation. And then the final outcome is that the observed speed well exceeds the minimum threshold, and then -- and the town will fund the installation of those devices. So you can see here in the table, we have -- for a road having -- there's two rows. The first row is 25 mile per hour speed limit and the bottom row is for a 35 -- 30 mile per hour speed limit road. So if you take a look at the top row, for a 25 mile per hour speed limit, if the 85th percentile speed that we see is less than 30 miles per hour -- so if you look all the way over to the right column -- if it's less than 30 miles per hour, the devices are not warranted and that's pretty much the end of the process. If the observed speed is greater than 30 miles per hour but less than 37 miles per hour, then the neighborhood could fund it. They have the option to fund it. And then if the 85th percentile speed is greater than 37, then the town would fund it. Similarly, for a 30 mile per hour speed limit, those number are there. If it's less than 35 miles per hour, it's not warranted. If it's between 35 and 42, the neighborhood would fund it. If it's greater than 42 miles per hour, the town would fund it. So that -- so how do we -- how do we actually measure these speeds? Well, we -- the -- the first thing we do is we do a screening. We deploy our in-house mobile speed trailer for three days in each direction -- so if it's an east -west road, three days in the east direction, three days in the west direction -- so we can measure the speeds and volumes on the roadway. Typically, that's done during the midweek to get normal -- normal readings. And that's done as an initial screening. Now, if the speed in any direction is measured to be higher than the appropriate criteria that I talk about here in the table, then the town will deploy a higher accuracy speed tube for a one -week period. And that'll collect data all at the same time. One -- you just -- you've seen them before, just a tube that goes right across the -- right across the roadway. And we actually have a contract with a consultant that does that for us. So the speed tube data is actually what's going to be used to determine if the speed criteria is met for the speedhumps or the speed cushions. So then that brings us to the petition stage. So once we determine that there is going to be -- that it is warranted for speed humps or speed cushions to be put down on the roadway, then the engineering division will determine the boundary of what's called the Page 65 or 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 66 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING affected area to be petitioned. So that includes but it's not limited to the properties that where normal travel routes will be altered by putting these devices down. So that could be ten houses; it could be fifteen; it could be thirty; it could be fifty houses. It really is ajudgment call on the engineer's part. So the neighborhood liaison, whoever had come into us originally -- that may be the HOA, it may be just a concerned citizen, or someone else, that would be -- they could be considered the neighborhood liaison. And they would be responsible for actually circulating the petition amongst the affected property owners. So the petition must be supported by 75 percent of the affected property owners. So if there are 100 homes that need to be looked at, a hundred properties, 75 of those properties -- at least 75 of those properties have to approve and be in favor of these speedhumps or speed cushions going down. All property owners within 50 feet of the device must vote to approve. So if it's going 50 feet from somebody's house -- within 50 feet of somebody's house, that particular person has to agree to putting it there. The signers of the petition have to be owners of their properties. They can't be a tenant or occupants of the property. However, if we get an owner affidavit saying that that tenant or occupant can vote on their behalf, then we will accept that. And if the speed measurements result in neighborhood -funded devices, so if it's kind of in that middle range, then the petition has to include language saying that all the affected owners would share the cost. Now, whether they do that or not, it's up to them. If the HOA says we have money in our coffers to pay for it, that's fine. We don't really care who's paying for it, but as long as it's being paid for by the neighborhood and it's not being paid for by the town. Of course, if it's -- if it's greater than -- if it's in that other criteria where the town pays for it, that doesn't have to be on the petition. Question? MCMAHON: Excuse me for interrupting you. But if you have people that want it and people that don't want it, you can't force the people that don't want it to pay, correct? Or is that the responsibility of the proponents of it because -- JANOVER: Yes. MCMAHON: -- if you make them -- if they make a petition that's granted and they can't pay for it, then it's moot, correct? JANOVER: Yes. Mayor -- Vice Mayor McMahon, you're correct. No one can be forced Page 66 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 67 of 89 JANUARY3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING to pay for it. So if for some reason someone doesn't want to pay and somebody else says I'll -- I'll kick in their -- their portion of it, they can do it. However, they still need to get 75 percent approval. MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you. I'll wait to ask other questions as you get there. JANOVER: Thank you. Yes. FRIEDEL: Your petition requirements, is it just for these speedhumps and these types of devices? What if you lower the speed on a road? Do you do a petition and ask the residents surrounding that road if they're in favor of that? JANOVER: Mayor and Councilmember Friedel, that's a great question. We haven't in the past. I know that we lowered the speed limit, I believe it was about a year and half ago, on -- FRIEDEL. El Pueblo -- El Pueblo. JANOVER: -- right. And that was not a petition. That was actually just -- we had done a speed study and we had done an engineering review of that and -- FRIEDEL Because I got a -- I got a complaint from a citizen that said none of us were involved in this decision. One person complained, and you lowered the speed on our entire road from 35 to 30 miles an hour on a 60-foot road. And they were complaining to me about that. And I didn't know if-- I didn't know about this petition requirement. So why wasn't a petition done to the surrounding -- all the homes on El Pueblo? MILLER: Yes. So this is a completely different process. In fact, this process has been around since 1998. It's just being updated. As far as the traffic situation, the speed limit change, we actually had that reviewed by the Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee. They -- the staff, the town engineer sought direction from that Committee after hearing from a resident. And then it was suggested to go off and study it and evaluate it. It was determined that that speed limit, if I'm not mistaken, was inconsistent with the other speed limits in the area. So the town engineer, his -- his recommendation to the full Council was that that change be made. And if I remember correctly, there was quite a bit of discussion amongst some of the Council members, including Councilmember Spelich, who I believe didn't support it at the time. But you can't have citizens basically just be surveys or vote on speed limits. I mean, there's a whole MUTC manual -- you want to explain what that is -- and we try to follow that. And we also have traffic engineering Page 67 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 68 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING practices that we follow as well. JANOVER: Yes, That's exactly correct. So yeah, we do follow standard engineering procedure. And many times when the speed limit is first determined what it should be, many times it's based on the 85th percentile speed. What we had done in that particular case was we compared the road types. They were exactly the same type of roadways. There was a lot of driveways that -- it wasn't like a normal collector road. It was really like a local collector road. There was lots of driveways that actually emptied out on to -- and pretty dense, by the way. So looking at that and, you know, just doing a comparison and looking at the 85th percentile speeds, it made sense for that location to be -- from an engineering perspective, to be modified and shifted down. This, however, is more -- is more of an obstruction to -- to -- some people see this as obstruction, some neighbors, you know, being that they're going to have to keeping raking and there may be some noise associated with this and stopping and going over this and -- you know, this is -- this is more perceived as -- some people really love these; some -- some really don't. So we -- before we go and make any decisions, we want to get -- at least for this, we want to get their input. And this has been the -- this has been the practice here since 1998, is to get the input for the speedhumps. So it's a great question. MILLER: If 1 may, too. My understanding, I haven't seen one of these come through successfully where they have petitioned and gone through the process. It seems like it's been hung up where the other neighbors don't support this or financially there's been an issue. I've never seen one that has come back where, you know, where the town would actually end up paying for this. But the bottom line is that a decision before even a final, final decision on this ever is made, it does come back to this council for their approval. And gives the neighbors another shot at trying to have some additional input on the process. JANOVER: True. And since my tenure here for about the last year and a half, the number of speed studies that I've done for -- for these type of situations, none of them have actually risen to the point where we had these warranted. Maybe one did for the neighborhood funded, but that didn't really go anywhere because he couldn't -- the person couldn't get support from the rest of the neighbors. Page 68 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 69 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING So moving forward, after the Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee approved the location, then it goes to the construction process. So the Town will prepare design plans and will obtain the cost of the installation from our contractor. Once the device is installed, he Town will install the appropriate signage. And for those neighborhood - funded installations, the cost of the installation, again, will be provided to the neighborhood liaison prior to the start of construction. So they know what it's going to cost upfront. And at the end of the construction, the Town will prepare an invoice for the cost of the installation of the device and for the signage and will forward the invoice to the neighborhood liaison, which will be due within 30 days. Now, I should note that for these neighborhood -funded installations, in order to assess this fee from the neighborhood, or from a non -town entity, the town will be amending the fee schedule, and with the fee for the neighborhood -funded traffic calming devices being the cost of installation. So we'll just pass that cost along to -- to the liaison. So the advertising of that town fee amendment of the fee schedule will be posted -- has to be posted 60 days prior to the adoption of the town fee schedule. So the town fees are adopted July 1st. So by May I st, this would have to be posted and advertised. So over here, this table just kind of shows -- and this comes right out of our document. Shows what the cost of installation is, the typical cost of installation per device. So for a speed hump, it's about 3,500. For a speed cushion, about 5,500. And again, that's approximate, subject to varying material cost and labor cost, so -- plus or minus ten percent should be somewhere in there. And we should -- I also want to note that for all installed devices, because they're in the Town's right of way, the Town will be responsible for all future maintenance of those devices. We would not have the HOA or anybody else maintain them. That would be ours to maintain. MAYOR DICKEY: What about snowplows? JANOVER: There's no snowplows. That's why we didn't have these in New York. Yeah, these would be a no -no in New York. So I'm so excited to have them here. So we had developed a number of construction details here. So we have the speedhump detail on the left and the speed cushion detail on the right. And you -- again, you can see the road level gaps here, again, based on the measurement of the fire apparatus. Page 69 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 70 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING So moving forward, all of these would be done pretty much the same. We just want to have consistency with our details. So there is a removal process if -- after they go through this whole thing they finally get this done, they may say, hey, you know what, we don't really like this. Either it's not doing its job or people are really not liking this; we want to have it removed. Well, and if that's the case, there is a removal process. So after six months have passed following the installation of the device, they would have to do a similar petition saying that -- 51 percent now of the owners need to approve removal of the device. MCMAHON: Excuse me. I have a question, if you don't mind -- JANOVER: Yes. MCMAHON: -- about the cost of removal and who pays for it. JANOVER Yes -- MCMAHON: So if the town puts in the speedhump, do they bear the cost of removal? JANOVER: Yes. MCMAHON: If the petitioners put it in, they bear the cost of removal? And what happens if -- there's a six-month limit on this, correct? What happens if the removal request comes in after? JANOVER: Well, it's -- it's -- so it's the -- at least six months have to pass. So they have to give it time to -- to kind of take and then people get used to it. If after -- so after three months were like, no, no, just let it go another three months. Let's see how it is. But after six months -- so if it's a year, you know, we can't stand this, get this out of here, then we could do that. But at least six months have to pass. And no matter who installed it, whether it was the neighborhood -funded installation or the town -funded, the removal cost are borne by the residents. And that would also be added to the -- the fee schedule. And finally, we developed the process flow chart that really covers the entire process, starting with the town being alerted to a speeding issue on a street, through the speed measurement process, evaluation of the speed results, determination of who is -- who bears the cost of installation, completion of the neighborhood petition, the presentation to the Pedestrian Traffic Safety Committee, and finally the installation by the town's contractor. And we also have a footnote at the bottom that was added that covers the removal process. Page 70 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 71 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING So with that, a draft of this NTMP update document was presented to the Pedestrian Traffic Safety Committee on September 27th of 2022. Several comments were received and have been addressed and incorporated into the document that's under consideration this evening, and you have them in your packets. And with that, staff recommends respectfully that Council adopt the updated Town of Fountain Hills Neighborhood Traffic Management Process document. And with that -- MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor has a question. JANOVER: Oh, all right. Yes. MCMAHON: On the petition requirements under (b), you say that "Town engineer and designee as well as a uniformed police officer would attend," do you mean shall attend as part of the process or just would attend? JANOVER: I'm sorry. Which one you looking at? I'm sorry. MCMAHON: It's (b) on the petition, in the draft. Are they going to be required to attend in order to have this petition heard and processed, et cetera, for discussion purposes? JANOVER: So the first item is the -- MCMAHON: It's the last sentence, the very last two words. JANOVER: Oh, item (b)? Oh, if-- "If a neighborhood meeting is held, the town engineer or designee, as well as a uniformed police officer" -- oh, yes, that should be shall -- MCMAHON: Should it be shall? Thank you. JANOVER: Yes. I can make that change. MCMAHON: That's okay. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any speaker cards on this item? MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. SKILLICORN: I have two brief questions, Madam Mayor. One is, a lot of times we see the radar sign out there; is that always doing a three-day study or is it just randomly letting people know they're speeding? JANOVER: Yes, Mayor, Councilmember Skillicom, usually, whenever we have that, whenever we have those mobile unit speed trailer units out, it -- it's there for a purpose, whether it's part of the speed study that we're doing, measuring the speeds or it might be Page 71 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 72 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING out there for another reason. But typically, we don't just typically put those out at random. SKILLICORN: And how many are we still in possession of? JANOVER: I believe we have three -- two, we still have two. MILLER: And if I may, too, it's not uncommon for council members to get requests from residents or our office. And well go ahead and make contact with the public works department, and they'll go ahead and do that at the request of the residents. So we do that all the time at the request of residents. SKILLICORN: And Madam Mayor, my last question is, they mentioned after that -- the sign is out, the tube study. What is the cost of that tube study, you know, average, and who bears the cost of that? JANOVER: Yes. Mayor, Councilmember Skillicom, they're not expensive at all, the tube studies. I think they're -- MILLER: We have a killer deal on the contract. What is -- Justin, what is the cost for them to set up and collect the data on our behalf? WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, the three-day count costs the Town less than $200. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: I'm just curious. When I used to he in traffic court, after every stop they would have to recalibrate the device. How often are these machines calibrated? JANOVER: Mayor and Councilmember Kalivianakis, I believe that -- annually, right? Yeah, we -- we calibrate those annually. KALIVIANAKIS: Is there any way we can increase the frequency of that? Or has it been tested after a year if they're still giving good results? JANOVER: We -- we can probably do it more frequently. We can do it semi-annually. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Okay. Because garbage in, garbage out, right? So we -- garbage in, garbage out. We got to know those are calibrated so we can make these determinations. JANOVER: Yes. This is actually -- so our mobile unit, mobile trailer units are actually, like, the prescreening. KALIVIANAKIS: Right. Page 72 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 73 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING JANOVER: So if that kind of shows that there might be an issue, then we go to the tubes. And the tubes are very accurate. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. JANOVER: What we find is that when we have the mobile speed trailers out that give you your immediate speed, we get some folks that like to see, well, how high can I get this thing to go, you know. So -- so that's why we use the 85th percentile speed because we know we have some folks that are trying to push the limit. So it's human nature. So I hope that answers the question. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any other comments or questions? Can I get a motion, please? MCMAHON: I'll make a motion to move to adopt the updated Neighborhood Traffic Management and Process policy with the modification as discussed herein. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: I'll second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. COUNCIL MEMBERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? GRZYBOWSKI: I agree. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. She's still hanging in there. Passes unanimously. The next item, Playspace Design Contract Amendment, Rachael. Thank you. GOODWIN: Good evening, Mayor, Council. We're hanging in there. Only a few more to go, I promise. So for tonight, I'm here to talk to you about amendment for Playspace Design. Tonight's presentation, I realize that several of our council members are new to the dais, so I wanted to make sure that you understood what the amendment was, why we were requesting it, and what the details were behind it. So Playspace Design is a general contractor that we use for a lot of our park features. More than just playgrounds, they handle a lot of our equipment, our ramada structures, even our splash pad. So when something breaks, something needs replacing, something wears out, just general wear and tear happens, this is who we use for a number of those pieces. Here's a couple of pictures of some of the other pieces that they help us with. This is the Page 73 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 74 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Golden Eagle Park Playground, if you're familiar. These are some of the new structures that we've added at Four Peaks Park. So again, this vender does a lot of work with us with a lot of our amenities and our parks. I mentioned that they also help us with our splash pad. Now, keep in mind that our splash pad is more than meets the eye. It's more than -- it's the structures that you see here. So it's all of the different components, which there's upwards of 30 plus components out there, but it's a filtration system. It's the -- it's the surfacing; it's the pumps; it's all of the inner -workings of stuff too. So all of this is to say that this is a pretty big and effective contract for us. And so were here tonight to talk about an amendment. But a lot of times when we talk about contracts, people get them confused with the budget. This is not an uncommon question. This is a questions I get quite a bit. And this is something that the finance director, Director Pock, and I sat down and went through this to try to distill some of the differences between a contract and a budget. And that's for this Council's understanding as well as anybody that still might be up watching at home. A contract is a tool that the town uses to set pricing and develop payment terms, billing; that's everything. It's legally reviewed. Aaron's office reviews it with us every time, every contract that we do. And it's just to insure that both parties to agree to purchasing terms. It's a contract. Like I said, a lot of times a contract is just -- confused with budget, but they are not the same. A contract value has no bearing on the budget. So whatever number a contract is is not the amount that will be spent in a lump sum. So a lot of times people see that number and they say, well, you're going to spend a million dollars. Nope. Maybe at some point we will. But that's not what we're asking for. The budget or the amount of money allocated is adopted each year by the Council. So for instance, my equipment and maintenance repair budget over at Golden Eagle Park is $4,640. It's not that much money. But that's the amount that I -- we have allocated to spend for Golden Eagle Park. If I don't have the money in the budget, I can't go spend it, no matter what the contract says. And now, you're probably thinking, that's not a very big budget; what happens if you need more than that -- which does happen on occasion. We work within our other budget where you find savings of other projects, things like that, to cover that. And in a worst Page 74 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 75 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING case scenario, if there s more severe situations, we do budget transfers. We come here to talk to you guys about the need or we develop projects that are bigger, such as CIP projects. We may say, hey, this is not working. We need to come back and redo -- let's say the splash pad, for example. That was a large CIP project because we did not have the funding to continue to do small replacement and repairs. We came back with a big project. We budgeted for it and we planned for it. But all of this is to go to say that the budget is not the same as the contract. So therefore, when we need to procure parts, pieces, services, whatever, we have to have a contract in place in order to do so. Often we have multiple contracts in place for different types of products and services. One of the examples is we have lots of different playgrounds in our parks. They're designed differently. They're provided differently by different vendors. So we have multiple contracts so that we can go to whatever vendor we need in order to get the parts and pieces as needed. Similarly, we have multiple plumbers, electricians, other things like that under contract so that we can reach out when we need something. If there's an emergency, I need someone I can get here today. Plumber A might not be able to, but were going to keep calling down that list until we can get somebody here, versus were doing a large project, we're going to plan it out, we're going to plan a shutdown, were going to be methodical about it. Then I can get pricing. I can get quotes. I can do kind of, you know, good comparisons to make sure that we're getting the most value for our investment. But all of that is to say that we have to have someone under contract before we can do that. Contracts are often set for a standard amount that can be used over multiple fiscal years and sometimes by multiple departments. You'll often hear Director Weldy up hear talking about contacts. In fact, he's probably going to talk about one here shortly for traffic control that events use. So we open contract but a lot of times, multiple departments use them. So it may be certain -- again, folks using them in piecemeal. But it adds up So for example, a contract of 500,000 might last us up to five fiscal years. We might use a hundred of it each year. One year we might only use 50 and the next year we might use 150 because of, you know, damage or things that happened. But it's -- it's -- it builds on each other. So once that amount is used, no matter how we use it and no matter who used Page 75 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 76 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING it, whether it's Justin, whether it's Parks, whether it's somebody else, no matter how long it takes to expend that total contract amount, that triggers us to come back for an amendment. It's used up; we have to come back to talk to you guys and task for your approval to amend the contract and add more authority to it. We're not asking for more money; were asking for contract authority. Does that make sense to everybody? MAYOR DICKEY: Rachael -- GOODWIN: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: -- the motion says to approve the amendment to the contract and any associated budget adjustment. So how does that fit in? GOODWIN: Great. I'm glad you asked that. The amendment is for the contract, the contract authority. So as you just saw, we have budget. We have some budget allocation in our budget to do our standard repair and maintenance and things like that. If, for instance, we have something come up where we need to transfer money from, I'm going to say, contingency or some other savings in another area, you would authorize us to make those transfers if and when those were needed for this contract. The contract amount -- or the amendment amount is for 415,000. This is, again, for multiple years. We know we have a couple of expenditures we are intending to do. Again, just standard maintenance, repairs, safety things that the parks need on a regular basis. And then it gives us some additional contract authority if we move forward with any CIP projects or other forward -looking projects. Keep in mind, anytime we do a project that is forward facing -- i.e., CIP, or some other large project -- were going to come back to you and talk to you about the project itself and say, is this the project we want to do. And there's still that checks -and -balance system in place. So we don't move forward on projects more than $50,000 without the approval of Council, regardless -- regardless of whether the contract authority is there or not. We don't move forward without that express approval. So that's -- that is kind of that check and balance that's built in. MAYOR DICKEY: I have another question about that. So if you go in and have a certain amount in the contact, does that guarantee any pricing at all? Is there ever any advantage to it? GOODWIN: Generally, it can help with our pricing. It really -- I hate to say it really Page 76 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 77 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING depends, but it does. Again, if we were to build a splash pad today, we would pay significantly higher cost that we did this, you know, a year ago or 18 months ago. And that's all supply and demand related. There's lots of other factors that go into it. However, when we do have an existing contract, we are able to hold the vendor to their quotes longer. We're able to say, can you give us an estimate based on this timeline, based on this -- and there's a goodwill factor that's there when they're able to -- when they're able to count on the fact that we have that authority to move forward with that negotiation. With that in mind, I'd be happy to answer any questions, whether it's about contracts in general or this amendment specifically for Playspace Design. MAYOR DICKEY: Did we have any speaker cards on this item? MENDENHALL. No Mayor, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilman. SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor -- and I apologize because this was something I was going to make a phone calls before, and I forgot. What is the current contract amount? GOODWIN: The -- well, if you put it all together, the current contract is -- let's see. The splash pad was well over 800,000. The playground that we put in was probably close to 360. So it's -- I mean, if you want to look at a contract depth, how many years do you want me to go back, I guess, is the question. The contracts renew when they are expended. MILLER: If I may. So the amount that you'd be authorizing tonight puts it up to a cap of 1.6 million. So it's not to say were going to spend 1.6 million. This is cumulative. This is the second amendment that the council's made. They did one last year as well. GOODWIN: In order to complete splash pad and the playground. MILLER: Right. So -- but it's a good question. And that puts it up to 1.6. But we've already expended most of that already GOODWIN: Yeah. We've expended close to 1.2. MILLER : 1.2. SKILLICORN: Yeah, Madam Mayor, when I read the packet, 1 saw the 1.68 and I saw this as the additional, you know, 415,000, which is about a 25 percent increase. And I just want to make the -- you know, the board and people aware that, you know, we have Page 77 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 78 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING some unknown costs on the Community Center. You know, we have a lot of money we need to refund our roads with. Frankly, you know, I'd like to see $2 million, maybe more, go to our roads every year. And even though we're only halfway through this budget year, I think that we have to find some money in this budget. So I think it's actually inappropriate to have -- especially have 25 percent increase. You know, we could discuss something smaller for life safety issues. And obviously, that is a big deal with playground equipment. We can't have somebody getting hurt. So I'm more than happy to discuss those. But I think there's just going to have to be much narrower scope. So I would be a no on this. And you know, but the rest of the Council is -- you know, they can do what they like. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman. TOTH: Just a quick question, Rachael. How long do you expect to stretch out that extra $400,000? GOODWIN: I believe the contract is written to roll over up to five years. So 415 over the course of five years. If we move forward with any other projects, it can be moved -- it can he expended quicker. If we decide to hold off on projects for budgetary reasons or others, then it would be used simply for standard maintenance and repairs, no additional expenditures outside of, again, the standard maintenance. TOTH: And are there any current plans in the works? Emergencies expected to -- GOODWIN: Um -hum. TOTH: Okay. GOODWIN: I mean, and in fairness, and I certainly understand the -- the budgetary outlook and approach. I would say that our playgrounds are a very, very high use amenity in all of our parks. Unfortunately, they do suffer vandalism. They do suffer damages. We had some vandalism over the holiday break. So it is -- it's our responsibility to make sure that those play spaces are safe and maintained for those reasons. So in order to do that, to have contract authority so that we can go and replace bolts or we can replace the slides or we can replace -- in this case it was the firepole -- you know, those types of things, so that we can maintain and keep the parks open and safe for all users. So yes, we do have some anticipated. We do have a few things that we know we need to Page 78 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 79 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING do. We have things that are on the horizon again, that can be held off on. But certain things do need to happen just in its standard maintenance process. TOTH: Got it. And last thing, the packet, that includes the amendment alone? Or is that the full contract that I'm looking at? GOODWIN: So the -- so for -- for the intent of this conversation, the 1.2 has already been expended. We've already spent that through the course of this contract for -- again, for playgrounds, for the splash pad, for the ramadas that went in at Four Peaks. So we've been cumulatively acquiring. So were done. The contact is expended, there's no money, there's no authority left on it. We're here tonight requesting 415,000 in authority. So that would be all that would be available on that contract because everything else has already been used. MILLER: But not necessarily expended all at one time this fiscal year. It's going to over the next five years. GOODWIN: Yeah. I don't have a contract in mind that costs 415 that I need it for. We need it for, again, piecemeal at all of the different parks through the next at least two to four fiscal years. TOTH: Okay. Thank you. MCMAHON: Rachael, this is really a necessity, isn't it? In your -- based upon my experience with you, you're asking for this money in the amount that you're asking in relation to prior experience and based on need, not on want. And it's basically to uphold the contract and as a security measure. Like you said, you may or may not spend it. And with that, I'm going to -- it's not going to adversely affect, like, a road repair or anything else, correct? GOODWIN: To my knowledge, again, this isn't money; this is contract authority. This is not a budgetary ask. We're using the budget we already have allocated, correct. KALIVIANAKIS: Just --just very quickly, I'm --just to make sure I have Grady's point down. This -- the money's would be going out of future budget considerations, right? Towards '23,'24, '25, depending on when the money was allocated? GOODWIN: Potentially. KALIVIANAKIS: So this is no one-time hit? GOODWIN: Correct. Page 79 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 80 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Just wanted to clarify that. GOODWIN: Thank you. For the reference of this conversation, I mentioned we have $4,600. Right now I can't spend that $4,600 if our playground breaks. I have the money. I just can't go spend it on the things that we need. This contract allows us to go ahead and make that purchase if something should happen. So it is a matter of if, as we do our maintenance and our safety and our preventative -type things. MILLER: And just for clarification. So Rachael mentioned earlier about checks and balances. Well, the other checks and balance we have is we have a procurement code, which Council -adopted, and we're before you tonight because we do not want to be in violation of it. That would be to expend money that's beyond what a contract allows for. So that's why were before you tonight, which is to get authorization to expend additional money with this particular contractor. SKILLICORN: Last question, I promise. When was the time period that we set that cap at 1.2? I want to find out how long ago that was until we got to today. GOODWIN: Again, I want to say we've had at least one amendment. We made an amendment at the end of fiscal year'20 in order to make -- to procure the splash pad pieces because we were on a -- probably an eight -month timeline at that point during COVID, shipping and all that type of stuff. And we did an amendment at that point in time in order to make that purchase. And then at the same time, we did an amendment to cover the cost of the playground replacement so that both things could be ordered at that time. So that was the amendment then. The original contract probably originated somewhere a year or two before that. MILLER: I've got the contract open right here. So for the splash pad it was February of 2020, and then there was -- in May of 2021. It was amended again in May of 2022. So it's had -- this is actually the second amendment. SKILLICORN: So if we've gone through 1.2 million in three years and we went through that last amendment within a shorter period of time, I -- I don't know if another $415,000 is realistic for five years. And that -- that's where I'm going to put up my resistance. I fear that we'll have the same discussion a year from now and well be bumping up the contract to $2.5 million, and that's the fear 1 have. MILLER: So what I just want to clarify -- it's a good point you're bring up, Page 80 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 81 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Councilmember, but I want to clarify that the vast majority, I believe, of the $1.2 million was for the splash pad, which is capital project. So of the money that has been expended to date was that. And then you showed on your slide previously, you had some ramadas that were put in that were put at Four Peaks Park. And then did we have any new playground equipment that was installed on this? GOODWIN: Only as part of the capital plan for Four Peak -- or for Fountain Park. MILLER: Okay. So -- so Pm just trying to -- I understand where you're coming from completely. But I also just want to qualify that the $1.2 million been expended on basically the ramadas and the splash pad. And so I don't think it's going to trend the same way because that splash pad was -- how much money did we put out -- GOODWIN: Over 800. MILLER: Over $800,000 on just that. SKILLICORN: Yes. I believe that would be a significant expense. But still I've got to comment, like, I can't control what happens in twelve months, you know, in a situation. Would it be agreeable for staff to change this to something like $83,000 in one year? Because that's what -- if we divide 415 by 5, it comes up 83,000. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, my question for that would be, talking about the -- what did you call it? -- the good, you know, the good policy or -- yeah, the idea, like, you know -- good faith, I think that's what she said. Or even more concrete than that -- GOODWIN: I would agree that yes. So when we are able to -- it helps us in our budgetary process to be able to say, we can take this -- we can do these repairs. We can anticipate that these repairs are coming. And a lot -- but a lot of times we can't anticipate what that is. If vandalism happens, if an issue happens at a park, we're bound and responsible to either close the park or make it safe, one of the two. Generally speaking, you probably don't want to see me here every week going, hey, I need another $5,000. Hey, were going to do this $1,500 repair over here. Hey, we got o order these parts; they take six weeks, so I need to go ahead and order them now so we can -- you probably don't to hear all of the background details on our maintenance plans. But you do want to hear when we have a big project. You want to know, hey, were looking at replacing this whole system or this piece needs -- isn't manufactured anymore and we need to look at a bigger solution. That's when we come back. And those types of Page 81 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 82 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING large expenditures would be up to the Council. The 415 that we're asking for is our best estimate for maintenance and standard projects, nothing that is what I would call a CIP level or a large project. MCMAHON: Mayor. MAYOR DICKEY: Vice mayor. MCMAHON: I don't see the point in dividing this by five and saying, let's come back and have an amendment every single year for S83,000. This is what you're asking. It's going to amount to that no matter what, even over five years. If you need more money, you're going to come back before the council, explain it, justify it, state the need, et cetera. This is a contract. This is not authorizing, basically, a 415,000 budget transfer right now because when you're going to expend money, it's like an umbrella, but when you're going to expend the money, you're going to come back before the council, correct? GOODWIN: Correct. MCMAHON: Thank you for the clarification. GRZYBOWSKI: Mayor, if I may. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilwoman. GRZYBOWSKI: I'm still here. I think that you're losing site of the fact that, like Vice Mayor just said, this is a contract. You're not approving an expense. The other amendments were -- we knew were buying equipment, and that was the intent of that. This is for safety of our children to use this equipment. And there's standards in place that I agree with that we need to follow and make sure we have the cushion built in in case something happens. So yes, it's a lot of money. But this is a contract. This is not a purchase. This is a "if we need it for safety reasons". So I'm -- I don't have a problem with this. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilwoman. Any further -- Councilwoman Toth. TOTH: Sony, I said one quick question, and then I asked you eight, and now I have another. GOODWIN: That's okay. TOTH: For the new equipment -- this doesn't affect my vote. It's just a question. For the new equipment on all the parks, do we have warranties for all of that? GOODWIN: That's a great question, and yes. The answer is we do. They are subject to, Page 82 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 83 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING you know, we have that they come out and make sure that -- if there's a malfunction, it's a malfunction based on, you know, that their piece malfunctioned and somebody didn't come and, you know, mess with it or tinker with it or that it wasn't an install issue. But yes, especially for the new stuff that we have, particularly in Fountain Park, all of that is under warranty. No, that's a very valid question, which is partly why we use this under these contracts, to make sure that we are getting the longevity and the support and the — all of the other amenities, all of the other features that create the best purchase we can make. Okay? TOTH: Thank you, Rachael. MAYOR DICKEY: Any other comments or questions? Councilwoman. KALIVIANAKIS: If we're done with discussion, 1'd like to make a motion. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to move to approve Playspace Design contract amendment 2021-048.2 and associated budget adjustments. MCMAHON: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor please say aye. COUNCILMEMBERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? SKILLICORN: Nay. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Passes 6 to 1. GOODWIN: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: The next item is similar in nature but different equipment. Go ahead, Justin. WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, temporary traffic control devices are one of our biggest challenges. Earlier tonight and in the past you've certainly heard myself, the town manager, the town engineer mention the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, MUTCD. This is the federal book that describes exactly how we should proceed in regards to temporary and/or permanently installed signs, traffic signals, and other stuff associated with roadway construction and building. It should be noted that engineers purchase and/or enter into electronic agreements for those books as the biggest customer in the U.S. The second one is attorneys. And the Page 83 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 84 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING reason for that is because they use that against the local government when their client, regardless of how inebriated he or she was, wrecks; they want to blame someone. And it's also the reason, ironically, that we do not do temporary traffic control devices ourselves. They require an incredible amount of area for storage, maintenance, and upkeep and constant recertifications and an incredible amount of liability insurance. For that reason, we go out and look for contracts that have been entered into by other municipal, county, and/or state governments. This is an example of that. We previously entered into this agreement in the amount not to exceed $50,000, which is within the town manager's approval. That's typically what we would use. However, most recently, this particular agreement had some escalation clauses in it through Maricopa County that made primarily our street projects at our special events very expensive. So the contract amount that we had has now reached its limit. We simply cannot go forward with any additional street projects or special event projects without additional contract authority. There are several different budgets that are used for this contract, including public works, and in the public works is streets and engineering, and also in community services, primarily special events. But we also use it for facilities, to block off parking lots and other areas whenever we have household hazardous recycling and/or electronics recycling. So there are several different budgets that cover this. I think it's important to note tonight, this is an extension that allows us to continue to move forward. I intended to have two of these with this same company on this agenda tonight, one of them primarily for public works and the second one exclusively for special events. However, the agreement that Mesa has entered into has not yet been codified by their elected body. So I intend to return when that happens to utilize that because there are special unit pricing in that one that's not in this one that will allow the town to receive temporary traffic control devices for special events that are much less expensive than we currently must pay because of, again, the expired contract that we utilized for that in the past. To recap, this contract was primarily used for public works. The contract previously approved expired for special events. So this contract is going to cover both of them temporarily. With that, if there are any additional questions related to this, I will certainly do my best to answer them. Page 84 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 85 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any questions or comments from anyone? Vice Mayor? MCMAHON: No, I don't have any. MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, I'm sorry. KALIVIANAKIS: If you want, I was going to make a motion. MAYOR DICKEY: Motions? KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to move to approve the first amendment to Cooperative Purchasing Agreement 2022-080.1 with Roadside Traffic Safety Systems in the amount of $50,000. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor? GRZYBOWSKI: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say aye. COUNCIL MEMBERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? GRZYBOWSKI: I approve. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Passes unanimously. Our last item is about the units on Saguaro Boulevard and Shea. TAVASSOLI: Thank you, Madam Mayor, members of the Council. I just have a few slides for this agenda item. Oh, goodness. Looks like there's a bit of a malfunction here. See if I could -- I apologize. Going to work around here. Yeah, okay. Well, I could attempt to pull up some aerial photographs here, but -- well, with the absence of a slide presentation, I'll go ahead and I'll let you know that the item -- this last item before you is a special use permit extension request for an additional six months for a special use permit on a property that is zoned C-1 at the north -- actually north and northeast corner of Shea Boulevard and Saguaro. The special use permit originally came before you in December of 2021. One six-month extension was granted in June of the following year. In August of 2022, the applicant submitted a site plan, which staff has reviewed and provided comments back to the applicant. However, the -- as the zoning ordinance is currently written, a -- the applicant Page 85 or 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 86 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING would need to file for a building permit within six months of approval of the special use permit. Now, as I mentioned, staff is currently reviewing the site plan. The ball is back in the applicant's court right now to address the first review comments. Upon approval of the site plan, or the design review, the applicant is given the green light to submit building plans. And I should also mention, since the last extension was granted, the applicant has provided a traffic impact statement, and we can discuss that further if you have any questions. I'll conclude with those comments. MAYOR DICKEY: Do we have any speaker cards on this item? MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we do not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman. TOTH: I actually do have a quick question regarding the traffic safety plan. I notice that we had requested that -- I think it said in December; is that correct? And it was not done until this summer when no one is here? TAVASSOLI: Actually the -- Mayor, Councilmember, the traffic impact statement was requested as a condition of approval, and that was -- the statement was provided with the first site plan submittal back in August of 2022, as was required by previous Council action. TOTH: Thank you for that clarification. TAVASSOLI: That should be the last attachment in the staff report. TOTH: Okay. Thank you. MCMAHON: I have a question, please. MAYOR DICKEY: Vice mayor. MCMAHON: Thank you. Taking a look at the traffic study, we have 17 units, right? TAVASSOLI: That's correct. MCMAHON: Probably an average of two cars, if that, at each place. So it says total peak only nine ingress/egress. Isn't that a rather low number for the amount of people that are going to be living in that particular -- those particular units? Or has that been updated with the traffic -- is this the most updated traffic study? TAVASSOLI: Correct. Mayor, Vice Mayor, that is the most updated traffic study that was provided in -- in August. And now as to how valid those numbers are, I -- I would Page 86 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 87 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING probably ask the town engineer to -- to address those. MCMAHON: Thank you And while you're there, I have another question. These are townhouses residences, so if this isn't approved for whatever reason, then there's a chance that commercial will be built there. Is commercial going to be more dense and create a higher level of ingress and egress? Because that is a very difficult intersection. And a light really can't be put there. It's too close to the other light, et cetera. So my concern with this, regardless of what's there, is across the street is a shopping center, Fountain Hills Hospital, et cetera. You know, left turns are going to be difficult, you know, maybe in the future, depending -- there might just be a right -turn only one. I don't know. But there is a traffic concern there. JANOVER: Correct. Mayor, Council, Vice Mayor, to address a portion of your question, the current zoning, that being commercial, likely would generate more trips on the property than the l7 units would. JANOVER: Mayor and Council, good evening again. So the -- the trip generation that was done as part of this traffic impact statement was based on the ITE, Institute of Traffic Engineers, trip generation. So it's a standard number based on the number of units of the type of land use. So that's seven trips -- that's during the -- I believe the a.m. peak hour. And the 9 trips is during the p.m. peak hour. 1 think over the entire day, it's, I think, 116 - - if I'm not mistaken 116 trips for the day. So that's just actually just based on standard rates based on what's been seen around the country. So one of the things -- and 1 do agree with you that, you know, we'd like to see a little more, perhaps a gap analysis, to see -- because from my observations being there, you know, there are times when there's plenty of gaps that folks could ingress and egress during. So we could certainly request a gap analysis. We can request a gap analysis from the engineer to see what that looks like and -- and to your point, Councilmember Toth, you know, we didn't see any existing traffic counts or anything as part of this. Really, it was just the trip generation saying that this is how much more trips are going to be generated as -- you know, due to this -- due to this proposed use. TOTH: Thank you for the clarification. MCMAHON: So if -- excuse me. I'm sorry. So if there's a gap analysis, would that need to be put into the motion or is that just going to be included as part as -- as part as Page 87 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 88 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING additional documents that need to he submitted to move forward with the SUP, right -- or the builder to move forward? JANOVER: That's a good question. TAVASSOLI: Mayor, Vice Mayor, that could probably be produced along with the building permit submittals and in the construction plans, yeah. ARNSON: I agree. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Great. Councilman. SKILLICORN: Mayor, this is more of a statement than a question. So it sounds like this has been going on. They're asking for an extension. Going back to 2021. I don't think this is a project that I would have supported. I mean, this is allowed in C-1 with the special use permit. But this is -- you know, it's a little bit higher density housing. It doesn't quite fit with what's -- the neighbors are at. Different type of housing, residential development behind it. And then this -- other parts of this property are actual commercial retail. I would prefer a commercial retail in that situation so we can have sale tax revenue there. And I always -- you know, as I expressed to the staff earlier today. I have a test -- it's a two -pronged test for SUPs -- is, one, is there something special about the property? And two, is there something special about the product -- project? So is the property really hard to develop? Is it a blighted, vacant building? Those would both qualify as special. A special project is something that we really want, something to be desirable to our town, and something to enhance our town -- maybe build the sales tax revenue or be a draw or something like that. I don't think this qualifies for either of those two tests. So 1 am actually okay letting this expire and not approving an extension. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any other comments or -- GRZYBOWSKI: Mayor, if I may. MAYOR DICKEY: You bet. Go ahead, Councilwoman. GRZYBOWSKI: Thank you. I like the project. I remember the drawings that the gentlemen brought when he originally proposed this. We have huge demand for housing. We have big demand for multi -family housing. And 1 feel like this suits it. Yeah, they're asking for an extension. But if I remember, there's actually something written in there that -- well, I can't remember now; I didn't make notes, but they were having a problem getting something done because there's not very many engineers available. So I don't Page 88 of 89 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 89 of 89 JANUARY 3, 2023 TOWN COUNCIL. MEETING have a problem with another six-month extension because it sounds like they should be able to get it done in these next six months. We really need to help him. Any economist that you talk to is going to tell you, you want retail, you need roofs. Roofs bring retail. So I would support this. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilwoman. And part of the staff report said that -- and this meant to me that they fully expect that this will move forward. So I think that's a big -- a big part of it for me. Anything -- oh, yes, sir. FRIEDEL: That was my question. Are we going to get this project done? So it sounds like we are. And 1 initially approved this subject to traffic studies, and so 1 think if we do this, we extend it subject to that analysis that you talked about. So I would be in favor of it because I think we do need the housing. And I -- Allen, I don't think it's as different as you think from the units right behind them. They're condos, I believe, right behind there, yeah, on Monterey. So I don't see it as an issue. If we can get the traffic thing figured out, I think we're in good shape. MAYOR DICKEY: Want to make that a motion? FRIEDEL: Yeah, I'll make that a motion, subject to the gap analysis. MAYOR DICKEY: Perfect. GRZYBOWSKI: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All in favor, please say yes or aye. COUNCIL MEMBERS: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Any opposed? SKILLICORN: No. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Passes 6 to 1. Our last item, as always, is just direction to Town Manager. Do we have anything for the good of the order? Thank you so much. It's a long one. We got through it. We're adjourned [MEETING ADJOURNED] Page 89 of 89