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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023.0906.TRCM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL September 6, 2023 A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E. Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:32 p.m. Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember Allen Skillicorn Staff Present: Interim Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall Audience: Approximately fifty-one members of the public were present. TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Post -Production File Town of Fountain Hills Regular Meeting Minutes September 6, 2023 Transcription Provided By: eScribers, LLC Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings. Page t of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Please rise for the pledge and remain standing if you'd like for the invocation. ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Is Steve Gay here? Fountain Hills resident, Democratic Club and airline pilot. Hi. GAY: Hello. Good evening. As always, I'd like to thank everybody here and at home for taking such an interest in making Fountain Hills an even brighter gem in our beloved corner of the Sonoran Desert. The term, "invocation", comes from a Latin word which means to summon or call upon. Invocations often call upon law makers to set a positive tone and put aside differences as they work together using facts, reason, and logic to resolve the issues before them. Seeing past big differences of opinion is a tall order, but if we can stop being this rigid person with fixed ideas about others, it's amazing how much they improve; sometimes almost instantly. Also keeping a gentle watch for sources of hidden kindness in others, lets us move more freely and kindly through life, perhaps even in town council meetings. Humor has rarely been used in invocations, starting way back with the Romans, maybe, because they were not particularly known for their sense of humor. However, there is evidence that humor can summon a relaxed, positive tone in a room. I mean, how many time do comedy shows end with people glaring at each other, right? So I'll close with some local humor to end on a light note. Many years ago, a woman from Fountain Hills called in to the Saturday NPR show. Wait, Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me. When asked to say a little bit our town, she justifiably mentioned our beautiful desert scenery and, of course, the fountain. Which, she helpfully informed the nationwide audience was the world's tallest fountain, shooting water up to 500 feet into the air. Without missing a beat the host asked her, how do you guys drink out of that thing? Page 2 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Thank you for your time tonight. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Here. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Present. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Here. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Here. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We start, as always, with our -- oh, statement of participation. MENDENHALL: I was going to -- MAYOR DICKEY: I was right. MENDENHALL: -- I was going to display our new video but I can't access it. I'll see if I can still get to it. [Start of participation video] MENDENHALL: Hello and welcome to the Fountain Hills town council meeting. I am Linda Mendenhall, your town clerk here to give you an important message. Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the agenda or under call to the public, should fill out a request to comment card located in the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of that agenda item. Page 3 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES When your name is called please approach the podium, speak into the microphone and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments to three minutes. It is the policy of the mayor and council to not comment on items brought forth under call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the council at a future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda. Thank you. [end of participation video] MENDENHALL: And what the call of this is, is really that when you walk in, starting at 5:15, I would have that on a loop. This is just to make it a little easier for those who have never approached council with request to comment and so forth. I hope you liked it. MCMAHON: It was awesome. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So we'll now move to our reports by councilmembers, town manager, and mayor. Town manager? GOODWIN: Thank you. I just have two quick updates for our council as well as our public. One is, this Saturday we are going to be welcoming probably more than 3,000 high school students to Fountain Park. It is the annual cross-country race. We have it generally every September. It is the Fountain Hills High School host and we have schools from all of the state that come. Which means the park will be very, very busy this Saturday morning starting early. Probably arrival between 5 and 6 a.m. and then the run takes place. And they're done, usually, between 9 and 10 a.m. So it is an early morning. It is expected to be hot. Because we have so many runners, it also closes down Saguaro Boulevard along the park there between Paul Nordin and Parkview because we have parking for probably 50 to 60 buses in that area. So it will be busy but it will be a great event. It's fun to come out and watch if you're around on Saturday morning. Also I wanted to recognize that Monday is September llth, it's Patriot's Day. And that Page 4 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES we're familiar with Patriot's Day as it recognizes the tragic events that occurred on September llth, 2001. In honor of this the town will be lighting the fountain in red, white, and blue in honor of the lives that were lost as well as our appreciation for our first responders that serve our community every day. So you'll be seeing that Monday evening. With that, that's all my updates. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I don't really have a report. I just want to say a thank you to Rachael and the town staff for that wonderful way of memorializing those who were lost in 9/11. MAYOR DICKEY: Vice mayor? GRZYBOWSKI: First thing I want to do is, I know we're probably all going to mention this. Last week was the annual Arizona League of Cities and Town conference. The point of it is, it gets a bunch of council people and town managers together, along with some of our state legislators. It's not necessarily political. It's about problems that we all have. All cities and towns have problems with vacancies. We all have problems with our roads. One of our newest commonalities with all the other cities and towns is the upcoming loss of the residential rental taxes. So we all went in looking for, hopefully, some city or town that has already talked about it and maybe trying to find out how they can backfill these funds that are going to be going away. So it's an annual conference that I have loved going to every year because of things like that. It's a great opportunity to find out what other cities and towns are doing and something that maybe we can try to pick up on. The other thing I wanted to talk about today was tomorrow morning I am attending the first of the Make a Difference Day planning meetings. And that's coming up on October 21st. If you would like to register to be a volunteer, you can do that on the town website. I believe we still have a couple of openings for clients, so if you have anybody that's a neighbor or a member of your church that may need to have some work done, have them contact Kim in community services. Page 5 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Thank you. FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. A couple of things. October will be Domestic Violence Month and the town will recognize that month by turning our fountain lights purple on Wednesday nights and also they will shroud the town hall in purple as well, in recognition of that month. And like the vice mayor said, we were with a lot of elected officials down in Tucson, where we had different breakout sessions. We learned some things about bonds, how they're issued, why they're issued, different dollar amounts, water conservation and filtration, and other things like that. So it was worthwhile to attend some of those sessions. So we did find out some good information there. And public service announcements. So Saturday night the Four Peaks Rotary is having a community fundraising event for the Lahaina Maui, Hawaii, residents that were displaced by the fire and that sort of thing. So you can sign up online for that. It's a dinner actually, Saturday night from 5 to 7. And in lieu of that, if you want to make a donation, I'm sure they're taking donations as well. Did I miss anything on that, Rachael, do you think? GOODWIN: Did you want to -- FRIEDEL: Oh, yeah. Also -- GOODWIN: Show our support. FRIEDEL: -- the town, that night, also -- since pink is the color for Hawaii, we will be having the fountain turn pink that night in honor of those people in Hawaii. That's it, Mayor, thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. MCMAHON: Good evening, everybody. I too attended the conference in Tucson and it was really great. I thought it was really wonderful to be able to reconnect with our colleagues in other cities and towns, listening to their concerns about their towns and what's going on. And realize that, basically, most cities and towns are facing the same things. So it was a good conference. We had a good time. Page 6 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Thanks. KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Thanks everyone for coming tonight, out of your busy schedules to attend your town council meeting, at home and live streaming. Again, it's very important that the constituents keep an eye on their government. And I would like to first talk about the cities and towns conference, which I think is expected. It was a tremendous conference. It gave us a chance to talk to, again, the mayors, the council, the managers, state reps, about all the problems that are concerning all of our towns. And it's surprising how similar all the towns are. I also just got a chance to discuss is there any perfect town councils out there, and all the people I talked to said no, we're very flawed. And I said, oh, that's good to know because all of us here in the town council are doing the best that we can and we're doing the best job that we can. And that's kind of what the people and the consensus was, we're doing the best for our constituents. Do we see things differently? Do we have different policy disagreements? Certainly we do. But sometimes perfect is the enemy of the good. And if you did have a perfect town council, then once you elected a human being, it would not be perfect anymore because we're all flawed individuals. And so let's just try to work together for the betterment of our town. I had the pleasure to play the saxophone with the Desert Valley Winds band at the community center. Thank you, Ms. Mayor, for attending. It was a spectacular success. I had many standing ovations and we were asked to play there again, either during the Christmas holidays or possibly this spring. So I'll keep you posted on that. They expected around 50 people, we had 250 showed up. 5o thank you, Fountain Hills, for turning out. Last thing is, I did attend the lawyers luncheon this month, and the county attorney, Rachel Mitchell, was there. Just a fascinating woman. She gave us a brief on what's going on at the county level attorney. A few of the things that she covered, and I'll just cover very briefly. But they are providing immunity for their prosecution of drug use when somebody calls 911 and says my friend is dying. They're exempt from Page 7 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES prosecution. I think that's really good. Instead of them walking away because they don't want to get busted for drugs. Also, as a lifetime injunction against perpetrators, which would keep perpetrators from visiting their victims. I think that's really good law. Police sentencing enhancements for ambushing police; I think that's a wonderful law too. And then lastly, the expansion of the statute of limitations for DUI offenses involving a collision for death or serious harm. And so the statute of limitations was doubled on that, thankfully. So that's all I have today, thank you very much. And again, thanks for corning everybody. SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Yes, we all attended the conference in Tucson and I won't go into that in any detail. But I also had the opportunity two weeks ago to do a sit-down seminar with members from the Cap the Central Arizona project. And also the ACC, Arizona Corporation Commission, talking about water. So it's fascinating and there was quite a bit of interplay between the states that surround us, but also Washington D.C. So it's not like Arizona can make its own plans. We have to come up with a compact agreement with the other states around us and then also, it has to be approved by people in Washington. So it is a complex process but it's coming in the next couple of years that this has to be finished up. So this is something that we're going to be hearing much, much more about. So thank you so much. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Thanks a lot. At the League, I'm on the nominating committee for the executive -- the nominating subcommittee for the executive committee. And so there was a slate of members. They all wanted to remain in their spots and they were all voted in. As a member of the resolutions committee, the council had the opportunity to see what will be the next legislative agenda for the League. Three of them -- well, they all passed except one. Three of them were passed for that short-term rentals, which Scottsdale brought those forward and those are going to be real good for us too. Page 8 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES One did not pass, though it had gotten forwarded to us by the policy committees, and that was to support equal rights for women. So that was an interesting conversation. So maybe next year we'll get equal rights for women. So I helped to prepare a summary. I have some information about some of the classes I got to go to and such. And September is -- so September is Ovarian Cancer Awareness Month. Please wear teal and stand in solidarity with the brave women fighting this disease and honor their mothers, sisters, daughters, wives, and friends who have been tragically lost. So keep that in mind, please. Our next item -- we don't have any presentations. So our next item is call to the public. Do we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. We're going to start out with a written comment. I know this item was last agenda, but it just came in today. So I'm not sure if they just want to continue to let us know their thoughts. But it's from Jennifer Brown regarding the donated towards construction materials and she's against it. And now for our request to comment. The first up, and Jeff Webb, you do want to speak in person? Okay, perfect. And then on deck is Chris Enos. WEBB: Hello. My name is Jeff Webb. I am a resident and a business owner on the Avenue of the Fountains. I met with most of you guys, except for one, and we gave you a presentation on improving the Avenue of the Fountains. We need to start looking at that. It's time. We're generating lots of income for the town and the Avenue is basically a stopover point for people to walk their dogs and then they leave. No one stays down there except for festivals. And it's trying to be everything for everybody and it's not doing anything. This is the nicest, most important boulevard in our town and we're just letting it sit there. We're not taking full advantage of it, and I think it's time that the city council starts to focus on this. And if it doesn't, then, I'm representing TAMA. I don't know if you know what TAMA is, but you haven't heard much from us because we're a new organization. We're The Avenue Merchants Association. But you're going to start Page 9 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES hearing a lot from us if stuff doesn't start happening down on the Avenue. And have some vision. It's time. Okay? Thank you. ENOS: Okay, guys. All right. So Tuesday's on a Wednesday this month, just so you didn't know. I thought I'd give the Madam Clerk the opportunity to pronounce my name again. So thank you very much. You did a great job. It's only four letters but it can be very hard. Last month I came and spoke with regard to public safety and more particularly the contract with regard to the sheriff's services. And you have very able counsel. I've talked with him. He's great counsel. Has a great reputation. But he is the town attorney and he's not specific to any one particular job outside of his town attorney functions. And respectfully, I suggest that you hire an individual with regard to this contract that will be specific to this particular negotiation. It's over $6 million a year as I understand it, unless I'm wrong. And you don't know exactly what's in it until somebody presents it to you. I don't know if it's been presented to the council yet. I think you have to identify needs as the policymakers in this town. You have to identify what didn't go well the last time. You have to be able to say what could we do better this time? You have to be able to account for enforcement of your local ordinances, and you have to create alternatives so that you can have some leverage in these negotiations. Make no mistake about it. You're in $6 million worth of negotiations. That's not an insubstantial sum. And it would behoove you, I believe in my humble opinion, to hire an attorney who does this for a living, separate and apart from your able counsel who has his own duties and is on salary, and/or another negotiator. And I would respectfully suggest that this be put on the agenda and that the town authorize the procurement of such an individual to assist in the negotiation of this before it's too late. You're already in September. You've got an expiration date on this thing. And worst thing to do would be putting a line at the last minute, say well, here it is. Take it or leave it. Page 10 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES So I would respectfully suggest that you put that on a agenda and have it authorized to hire a separate and independent counsel who can assist in the negotiation for your town. MENDENHALL: Next we have Crystal Cavanaugh. And on deck Lori Troller. CAVANAUGH: Good evening. Crystal Cavanaugh, Fountain Hills resident. Since a pro -bond statement was made by the Mayor from the dais at the last meeting, essentially publicly supporting a tax hike on the citizens, I want to go on record as being against the $25 million school bond, plus interest, over a 15-year period as being fiscally irresponsible. Considering the current enrollment of 1,174 students, it's not clear how this dollar amount was determined or whether there was an in-depth assessment specific to our district. But there was no actual bond committee that was formed to be held accountable for this, who will provide the oversight. So this brings me to a related point, our sign ordinance. As a PAC, Reclaim Our Town tries very hard to operate within this convoluted, difficult -to -understand sign ordinance when placing our opposition signs. In January the whole sign ordinance was repealed but not replaced. In February an emergency council was called to reinstate the ordinance. But the enforcement of temporary signs was rightfully put on hold. But then, in June in the last vote before summer break, some of you surprisingly voted four to three to start up code enforcement for temporary signs, just in time to effect the special election period. This directly impacted our messaging regarding the bond measure in relation to size of signs and placement. Suddenly there seems to be new rules. Even though there is an important ballot measure, we're told there really isn't an election cycle, although there is a still a $40,000 special election taking place. Nothing has officially changed with the original ordinance as of yet, but locations that were acceptable for signs last fall are now, somehow, no longer acceptable this fall. Who decided that? And then last week, on the website, a new bold print line suddenly appeared in the ordinance saying that since there was no primary or general election, the state statutes for political signs did not apply. With no changes to the ordinance, why was this Page 11 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES message suddenly put on? And just as quickly removed from the website. Is the intention to discourage free speech for this ballot measure? Once again, this sign ordinance continues to bring inconsistent answers to our questions which is why it was such a hot topic when the candidates ran last year. So this has me asking, why has this issue not yet been put back on the agenda after there was a reconsideration request? Why not revert back to the hold on temporary sign code enforcement until a better written ordinance can be implemented? Thank you. TROLLER: Everybody. I was going to -- Linda, Rachael, Aaron, Mayor, council. For the record, I would love to do that. If I can get my presentations that way, I'll give you guys these videos, that would be great. Lori Troller, resident. My topic tonight is 5G, specifically the broadband ordinance. It's now a few days shy of two months since the town received a drafty ordinance from Attorney Campanelli. I would expect by now most of the remaining council work on the ordinance would be complete. In personal conversations with some of the councilmembers, that's not the case. Apparently, the councilmembers aren't even aware that the draft ordinance was provided to the town. My concern is this qualifies as a breach of the Pierce Coleman service contract with respect to responsiveness and in turn, is a violation of the constitution in the form of maladministration. At this point, with concern for lack of progress, I'm putting the town on notice that tomorrow I'm placing a FOIA request for the town to provide me and I'll provide it for the residence, billable hours that Aaron Arnson has charged the town related to this specific item. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Jerry Sheridan. SHERIDAN: Hello. My name is Jerry Sheridan and I live in Fort McDowell. But before that, I moved to Fountain Hills in 1976 and at one time, I had 50 -- over 50 family members that lived here. My daughters went to school here and my grandkids went to Page 12 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES school here. Besides that, in 1977 I began to police here as a deputy sheriff with the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office and I spent the next 40 years overseeing the sheriffs office, administration of law enforcement in this community. To say I have deep roots and a concern for the public safety of this town is an understatement. So now, I'm running for sheriff. And I saw on the video of the last council meeting with the discussion about the contract. Well, when I became the chief over the patrol bureau in 1995, I had the board of supervisors sign a contract, an agreement with the sheriffs office to support contract towns because I saw the need for the communities for good law enforcement at a good price. And the value it added to the sheriff's office and the outlying communities in a regional concept. That was very important to me and I continued through that until I retired in 2016. I'm standing here because your current sheriff doesn't understand that. He doesn't understand the need. And I can tell you if Jerry Sheridan was your sheriff today, you would not be having this problem, this negotiation, because the sheriff's contract would have been filled from the onset. There would never have been a problem. And if there was an issue, you wouldn't have to fight to get back that $3 million. Withholding that money back from you should not be an issue. This is a no-brainer. This is money that the sheriff's office didn't meet their contract and it certainly isn't the captain's problem because he didn't cause this. This is from downtown. And I know, because I was a chief, I was a deputy chief, and I was the chief deputy, and I know how this works. And I was involved in the contract. And I'd almost be happy to negotiate the contract for the town for free. Because I know all about it because I negotiated the contract from the other side of the table for many years. So with that, I thank you. And I know you can't answer but I'll be here after to be available to answer any questions you might have. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Mayor, that's it for public comment. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Counsel, would you like to respond? Page 13 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES ARNSON: I will respond, Mayor. And I appreciate the opportunity. You know the comments that have come as of late have been of the nature that they accuse town staff and accuse the town attorney's office of dereliction of duty, of maladministration in office, of violating codes of conduct and contract. And that's enough tonight. 5o we're going to walk through, if you don't mind, Mayor, some of the misstatements and uninformed statements that have come out tonight. With respect to the SG ordinance, I sent an email to the council already, so you're presumably aware of this. We received that on July llth. How Ms. Troller knows that is a mystery to me. But she was aware that we received that on July llth. Mr. Campanelli advised the staff to take a look at his suggested changes and to offer any comments, questions, redlines in response. This is what we would do with any proposed work product that's provided to us. We did so. Director Wesley looked at it. My office looked at it. For your information, it is an extremely dense document. It's 50-pages long. And it's all telecommunication regulation information. We have questions. We posed those questions to Mr. Campanelli on or about August 28th or 29th, I'll have to go back to my email. We haven't heard back yet. So it's in process. Nothing was withheld from anybody or from the council. I understand that Ms. Troller may be upset about the fact that she hasn't received the draft. That's really neither here nor there. We don't provide working privileged drafts in response to public records requests. Nor are my bills matters of public record. They can see hours but we're not disclosing privileged information about what we have worked on. That will not happen. So that's with respect to that first issue. Are there any questions from the council with respect to that issue? Thank you. The next issue, maybe Rachael can speak to it if she wishes to. We -- certainly with respect to the MCSO contract -- understand that the public has strong feelings. We also understand that there's a desire to see more that's being given in negotiations than what apparently everyone believes we have received. 1 will happily advise the council on the possibility of retaining separate counsel. I will say, at this point, I'm not positive Page 14 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES how much further, how much more traction we're going to get in the process. But I'm happy to advise council of that. Rachael, did you have anything you wanted to follow up on with respect to that? Okay. Third, the staff has advised repeatedly regarding the sign ordinance. We have analyzed this issued upside down, inside and out. We have gotten back to the individuals who are involved with the question about the signs. The statute that they're referring to simply misreads how it applies. It doesn't apply when there's not a primary election. It says in 16.10.19 subsection H. You didn't hear about that. So I want to make sure that council's aware and clear that when you hear this information, and when this information comes to your attention, it's not something that staff has been derelict in duties. It's not something where staff has failed to respond. It's not something that we haven't looked into. Staff's not stupid. We're not idiots. And we have the opportunity now to be able to articulate for you, and we will from here on out, articulate exactly what the basis is for staff's decision, and it's ultimately up to the council whether to take that into consideration or not, do what you will with it. But we will not have our professional dignity impugned any longer with respect to these comments. That's all I have to say. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And I appreciate that. Does anybody have any questions or anything? Councilwoman? KALIVIANAKIS: May I speak? MAYOR DICKEY: Um -hum. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you. Aaron, I guess my question is when it comes to the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office, I've got two questions as far as retaining outside counsel. ARNSON: Yes. KALIVIANAKIS: One would be, would retaining outside counsel to address the overcharging that some people perceive has been done by Maricopa County to Fountain Hills? And then two, would we be requesting to get outside counsel to negotiate the Page 15 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES current contract that we're trying to nail down for future services? ARNSON: Mayor and councilmember, I don't know. We have not discussed the possibility of retaining outside counsel before. If that's something that the council wishes to consider doing, then council's certainly able to provide direction to staff to do that? Do you have any follow up on that, Rachael? GOODWIN: No. I echo what he said. At this point there's not been any direction to do so, to look into that potential, the cost involved, the timelines involved. As of the beginning of the calendar year, the direction was for town manager and the finance director to begin those negotiations, and that's what was done and that's what continued. And again, as we discussed last week or two weeks ago, a number of council have been part of that discussion and that's as far as it's gone. If there's interest in doing that, we can take that direction and look into that. But as of yet, that has not come up. MAYOR DICKEY: And Aaron, I don't know how far we can go with some of this, but the MCSO contract has been -- we've had many talks with MCSO. There's been deep involvement, professional involvement. Involvement with law enforcement helping us come up with what we want to bring forward. But this reaction to something that doesn't exist yet, we don't have the contract. So we are reacting or hearing that there's something wrong with the contract that we don't' have yet. We have been negotiating it and it should be on an agenda in, likely October. And as far as the other item, it's being stated, in a factual way, something that hasn't been determined to be factual. So we will move on from that. If people want to look at that later, we can do that. MCSO is a governmental entity, as we are, and we'll just stop right there with that. The sign ordinance was not asked to be reconsidered. And the sign ordinance is exactly like any temporary sign, just like we've said a million times, we cannot regulate signs on content. So that's where we kind of are still with that. And that's that. Do you want to say something to me? Do you need to say something? ARNSON: No. The only thing I wanted to add, Mayor, in response to what you said was two things. The first issue was with respect to the contract. I fully expect that the Page 16 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES council will have an opportunity to discuss that contract in executive session before it's presented for acceptance. So that would be a really good opportunity to have that conversation. The second thing that I would raise is, to correct the record somewhat, I believe there was a request for reconsideration of the sign ordinance but it was withdrawn. MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, I'm sorry. ARNSON: That's what I want to be clear. MAYOR DICKEY: It was nothing that -- we're not compelled to bring that back? ARNSON: No. MAYOR DICKEY: thank you. KALIVIANAKIS: Ms. Mayor, may I address that too? Thank you. The motion to reconsider the sign ordinance had nothing to do with temporary signs. It had to do with banners for our friends at the bachelor pad and had to do with A -frame signs and multiple entrances. Even if the motion to reconsider was heard, it would not have covered temporary signs. So I want to straighten out the record on that right now. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. FRIEDEL: Can I ask Aaron a question? MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, sure. FRIEDEL: Aaron, would that discussion on that contract include -- and if this isn't the right place to bring it up, possible arbitration and other remedies for the town? ARNSON: So you can have it be as many agenda items as the council sees fit and as a we have time for. Certainly the negotiation itself is its own deal, prospectively, right? We're looking forward. If it's retroactive, then that's a whole different discussion we need to have. You can have it at the same time, but they are two factually distinct issues. So yes, we can agendize it both ways. FRIEDEL: And the other question I would have. It's possible that Matrix Consulting, who did the analysis of that contract on behalf of the town, that we hired them to do that, maybe they could represent us in negotiations as well? ARNSON: That's something we can certainly discuss. Page 17 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, all. Our next item, our consent agenda items, unless you'd like to take something off, can I get a motion please? GRZYBOWSKI: Move to approve. SKILLICORN: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MAYOR DICKEY: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you, all. Our first regular agenda item is about a cut and fill waiver request. Rachael? GOODWIN: It's okay. I'm going to hand it up to Farhad. He's going to give us an update and a little background on the item. TAVASSOLI: All right. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you, Rachael. Members of the council. What you have before you is a cut/fill waiver request for a single family residential lot in Eagle Mountain. The exact address here on the screen. Now, the reason this is before you is not because of a zoning ordinance provision, but Page 18 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES because of a provision in the subdivision ordinance that states whenever you propose cut or fill on any one lot of more than ten feet, it requires town council approval. In this case and I'll make this a point of clarification to the staff report, the applicant is proposing 14 feet of fill in a small area of the lot. I beg your pardon. I'm here to clarify it and I misstate it again. About 14 and a half feet of fill, and so I had rounded it up to 15 in the staff report for simplicity sake. So the subject property is in Eagle Mountain just south of Shea Boulevard there and just east of the border with City of Scottsdale, about three lots over. Again, it's a single family residential lot with a considerable grade. It's about 22 percent sloping down towards the west. The property is a little over 27,000 square feet and is zoned, just for purposes of background information, is zoned R-110A. And incidentally, just as a side note, because of the zoning at R-110A, it's not subject to the hillside ordinance. So it's allowed 100 percent disturbance. I've provided a bird's eye view of the lot just so the council can appreciate the -- at least to some extent -- the grade. Again, I mention it's about -- this is looking north incidentally, as indicated by the arrow here on the left. It's looking north as you can see -- well, actually at this pin, I should mention is roughly the geographic center of the lot. Immediately to the north is, as you can see, is an existing single-family residential lot and downhill to the site is another existing single-family residential lot. The lot immediately to the south is currently vacate, however, there's another existing home south of that. Another bird's eye view, this one looking south. You can see the existing single-family residential home in the distance and the three downslope towards the west. Okay. So what the applicant is proposing is a home, a one-story home of a little over 3,800 square feet livable and total under roof, including the two -car and single car garage, almost 5,400 square feet. Now, this area here, just to the west of the home, is the subject for this cut/fill waiver request. This is roughly a 954-square-foot area, that indicates the area that will consist of fill of over 10 feet. And as I mentioned rounding up, 15 feet maximum. The fill is Page 19 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES shallower towards the east and because the contours go down, the amount of fill will increase to about 15 feet. Staff is recommending approval of the cut/fill waiver request as we believe the fill is occurring in a relatively small area, again, of the 954 square feet. And it is staff's belief that no view sheds will be blocked from any of the neighboring residents particularly to the west, as they will be looking up towards the home and the area that will be filled is roughly consistent with the finished floor elevation of the home that's being proposed. In case the council would like to see some elevation drawings, I have provided a few -- actually just a couple elevation drawings. But with that, I can end my presentation and open it up to questions. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Did we have any speaker cards on this? MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we did not. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Anybody have any questions about this project? Yes, Councilman? SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director, is this an HOA? TAVASSOLI: Mayor, Councilmember, yes. Eagle Mountain does have an HOA. SKILLICORN: Okay. And they have approved this or does this still go through their process? TAVASSOLI• Mayor, Councilmember, I don't know for certain the answer to that question. But typically, we do advise developers to go through the HOA first before submitting any building permit filings with the town. But the architect, I should mention, is here as well and he could -- SKILLICORN: Okay. We have a nod or a not if it's -- if the HOA has approved it? UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Yes, it has. SKILLICORN: Okay. And then, Solitude Canyon, is that Fountain Hills or Scottsdale? The street to the west? Page 20 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES TAVASSOLI: Solitude Canyon, since I'm familiar, councilmember with that street name as I reviewed a few permits -- SKILLICORN: you have to go one street to the west. That's the name of it. I think so. Yeah, it has to be. TAVASSOLI: It would be in the town's jurisdiction. SKILLICORN: Okay. And then, so typically, I like to go by what the zoning says on waivers. I typically don't like waivers. But I have a test and one is, is there something special about the project or is there something special about the property? In this case it sounds like the project is just a home, but it's the angle of the property and it does seem to be because of the zoning it was -- you know, when it was originally zoned it was known that there would be -- dirt would have to be disturbed. So it probably passes my test unless someone has like a water runoff issue or something like that, that I'd want to hear about. If anyone has anything like that, then feel free to voice your concerns. TAVASSOLI: Oh, and Mayor and Councilmember, if I can just mention real quick. The area that is being filled at a 15-foot max level is a uncovered patio primarily. Just a tiny portion of the home is within that fill area. MAYOR DICKEY: Any further comments or questions? Can I get a motion please? SKILLICORN: Motion to approve? FRIEDEL: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. Page 21 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. thank you. TAVASSOLI: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Our next item is going to be -- were going to hear about our community economic development strategy. So what we're going to do is, were going to hear from Amanda. We're going to get the presentation. So we'll go through that whole presentation. Then we'll see if we have any speaker cards and then well discuss. Is that okay with everybody that we hear the whole thing? Okay. JACOBS: Madam Mayor, members of council, I want to let you guys know that I have been battling the last few days with laryngitis, so bear with me. And then, a request, I have 21 slides. There's about 19 of content. A couple of weeks ago I provided you an update on the data. So if you guys are okay, I won't go into lots of detail. We'II pass through some of those and I won't read everything; will try to summarize it. So is everyone okay with that? All right. Well, again, Madam Mayor, members of council, members of the audience, extremely excited to be presenting the proposed economic development strategy. It is actually been ten years since we've updated the plan. There was an attempt back in 2019, it wasn't approved. So when I started with the town, it's something that our town manager said we need to start working on. And really felt that a few years ago it didn't pass because it was missing a very important ingredient and that was community engagement. And so this strategy we're proposing as a three -years. Some folks, as I met with you guys one-on-one and then presenting this with SPAC said, wow, there's a lot in here. But know that economic development is a team sport and so I want to thank Bo Larsen, Page 22 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES John Wesley, John Perez, Kevin Snipes for their help and know that your mighty big economic development team of two is not handling all of this and the work is not going to get done in one year. So community engagement. We attempted to have a leadership workshop back in October but because of schedules, we were also right in the middle of an election, we decided to wait and have that in January. And we had about 50 of our leaders; so residents, business owners, at the table. We had a public workshop April 12th. Again we had our one-on-one meetings in May and June with council. It was presented to the strategy planning advisory commission. I want to make a note, it was in the paper about them perhaps making a recommendation. In talking with the chair, Patrick Garman, because their scope really is the town overall strategy plan, he chose for the group not to make a recommendation, just be a sounding board. So again, that's again good to hear from our residents. They brought good feedback, and some retired business owners, et cetera. And then was able to present to the Scottsdale/Fountain Hills Area Association of Realtors. So data and trends, again, I'm not going to read all of this but want to point to the median household income of 87,000. The median sale price of 660,000 and our median rent price of almost $24,000. Now, if we go to our current major employers. Again, I will not read this to you. But if you look at this, this is service -based industry employers. If you look at those workers, they make less than $40,000. So if we go back to those median prices, we don't have to be a mathematician, which I'm not, it's not adding up. These workers are not living in Fountain Hills mostly likely. And we're hearing that through some of our business retention site visits. Our targeted industries currently -- so again when I started day one, what we were promoting was financial services, healthcare, professional services. Through just my profession and then listening to the community, I will say I've modified this a little bit. But also want, hopefully, council's blessing. By adding assembly, small scale. We actually have this today. We have businesses behind the Target shopping center. We Page 23 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES have our watch company doing assembly. So on a small scale we should be advertising that. And with that too, it sends a message to the Arizona Commerce Authority who's the state economic development agency. And then the Greater Phoenix Economic Council, our regional economic development organization, that we're open that if they have a lead to come known on Fountain Hills' door. Bioscience is new. That came up multiple times in our public work workshops. Financial services will keep health care, hospitality, retail and startups. Apartment occupancy. I think I've been beating a dead horse. Supply and demand issue, we'll skip that one. Vacancy we just talked about. Again, though it's nice, office a few months ago was at 50 percent. There's a significant drop. And I will tell you with John Wesley, myself, the phone's being ringing this summer. Which is exciting. Our tourism. Again, I'll just make a note here. When I came in, I was like is Fountain Hills traditional tourism? And if we take our events impact study and combine our visitors, local/regional, when it comes to events, we're missing out on the traditional tourism. And so what I mean by that, heads in beds. So when they're staying here for a period of time in our hotels, that is bed tax and sales tax. And so a significant opportunity there. Our focus areas, our business attraction, retention and expansion, marketing, strategy partnerships, and tourism. So first under attraction, there's going to be about three slides on this, but staff is proposing to do a new downtown strategy. I don't always like to assume, that's not a good thing. But the last time we approved a plan was back in 2009. And so if you think back in 2008 and prior, if that was some of the work product of hearing things from the public. We then were hit by the great recession, things happened with the economy. Things now with COVID. There's, right now, nine districts within the strategy and perhaps we need to scale that back. Because buckle your seats if we're wanting to do stuff with downtown, this is going to be a multimillion dollar project. Two, collaborating with the property owner of Four Peaks Plaza. If we're not familiar with plaza names that is [Tar' -jay] or Target. I'm looking at redevelopment Page 24 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES opportunities. Again, aftermath of the great recession as well as COVID. Half of the plaza is empty. We don't want that. It benefits nobody. Exploring opportunities in four different areas. Again, if you guys can read that. For redevelopment and revitalization, and wanting to create zoning districts and flexible uses. So Palisades, for example, is within our downtown area. I have shared with you one-on-one and publicly that there have been opportunities to place some people in some of those vacancies in that area, but it does not meet the zoning requirement. And so we're not even going to try. And so we're waiting to work on that. Bring to council opportunities to have some flexible zoning and also look at height and various things to entice people that they can do an administrative track. So again, there's that administrative approval. If we get through those flexible zonings, that's an incentive or it's saying, okay, if you want to do something above and beyond that, here's your path; going to planning and zoning town council. And so that adds four to six months. Time is money for our businesses. Again, business attraction. Developing and publicizing a streamlined development review process. That has come up numerous times. And I'll have to say to you corning in as a new girl, I would ask John Wesley and team, you don't do a permit for this or we don't do this. So it's telling our story because there are things where traditionally with other municipalities, there is a review process, there's a permitting process. And so being able to articulate that, but also meet with some of our property owners to understand what are areas for improvement, and that we're open to hearing that. Again, just earlier painting that picture of who are major employers are. Those median prices, were need to start diversifying our housing opportunities even more. And then looking at developing architectural design standards for our businesses. So again, the downtown, a lot of people don't know that they're in a downtown. So is there an opportunity to modify where we're looking at revitalization or looking at new businesses to have design standards. This is the last slide, I believe, on business attraction. Wanting to partner with the Arizona land department. A couple of you have been interested in this. Our residents Page 25 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES want to know that we're being forward thinking. But this is very long-term. Again, Mr. Wesley and I have a lot of experience dealing with the state land department and it's a long process but to, again, reinitiate those conversations. Also looking at modifying the public art policy to allow for performing and temporary art. So again, for example, we have commercial businesses. We have a requirement for public art. Instead of continuing to do sculptures, is there a way that they give the money back? We entice them to give it to the town, and we look at expanding our concert series. Again, later on we'll talk about a second Thursday concept. And then creating a placemaking strategy to enhance the vibrancy of the downtown. Business retention and expansion. Continuing that wonderful program. Again, thanks to all of you for participating, monitoring those trends, and when applicable, bringing it to council to take action. Continuing our eight -week shop local summer campaign. Again, when I started our businesses wanted support and so asking what does support look like. So in the summer just reminding our residents to please shop local and just reminding folks who are new and are used to paying a primary property tax, that you don't do that in Fountain Hills. So we really rely heavily on that sales tax. Partnering with the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce on a welcome package to our new businesses. So again, welcoming them, having that red carpet sort of moment, but also letting them know opportunities of different events that are happening, knowing what to do, not to do; we've heard related to the sign code, et cetera. And then creating a second Thursday concept on the Avenue. It may not be second Thursday, but just to give an idea. And then conducting a market analysis of our existing businesses who are looking to expand. So I can say this publicly, everybody knows. But Adero has plans to expand. The Fountain Hills Medical Center has plans to expand. Restaurants have talked to us about expanding. And so keeping track of that and then making sure, one, when they're ready to pull the trigger, that we're ready to take action, and then making sure we're not a barrier for them expanding in the town. Marketing. Wanting to create a comprehensive economic development marketing plan. Page 26 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Different infographics related to those targeted industries. A specific economic development marketing brochure that really paints the demographics, the quality of life. And then collaborating with key stakeholders on consistent brand messaging. So I'd shared with some of you, several months ago, Bo and I were looking at YouTube video, got really excited, and there was a real estate agent promoting the town. Well, then, as we're watching it became cringeworthy because the person's saying that you know, we're a sleepy town, we're boring, we have no nightlife. Yes, the Mayor's mouth is open. So was ours. And so again making sure all of us are ambassadors. It's not just economic development. That we have consistent messaging. Because again, when things happen like that, it takes us months to prove that that is a false narrative. And sometimes too, with our real estate agents, they're the first to meet our potential residents. And so making sure that we're on track with messaging. Strategic partnerships. So looking at the possibility at creating a coworking space within the town with our homebased businesses, our startups. This past year we worked with the Arizona Business Alliance and we have a market here in Fountain Hills, and so looking to see how we could tackle that with the public/private partnership. Identifying opportunities to attract a university or satellite campus. So working with the Fountain Hills school district to understand what our potential students and leaders' looking at for the future. I have met again some of our employees working in our businesses and they shared with me the town used to have a design school. And so finding out, okay, what happened with that? And then of course, the International Dark Sky, there's obviously an opportunity there and they've been working very closely with the issue. Again, collaborating with those universities for pipeline programing. Collaborating with Fort McDowell to improve the aesthetics as you're coming in. So you guys have heard me too, when I was applying for the job, came in off the B-line, went on Shea and I was like, oh. When I saw the broken-down building and some of our faded away finding signs. So again, that's a brand image and messaging. Partnering with Fort McDowell and Salt River Pima on ways to explore our growth opportunities on the B-line with the Page 27 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES town being the immediate community. We, of course, as residents unfortunately have sale tax linkage just to Scottsdale, but how do we work with them to grow that corridor to where then too, the people visiting are corning to Fountain Hills and then we can seek those sales tax. For tourism, creating a comprehensive tourism marketing plan for targeted audiences. So this past year we've been looking at the top ten businesses who are coming to experience Fountain Hills. So how do we start targeting to some of those states? You've been seeing that the top five, that we are seeing Chicago, New York, Los Angeles looking, and so what can we do to boost that visitation and get people traveling here, an opportunity to attract a new resort. With some of our hotels, unfortunately, an aftermath of COVID, is they're scaling back on their meeting rooms, thinking like we're never going to be in a room together again. I was at a conference in July with 500 people. And so there's an opportunity here to work with the resort to see how we can add meetings and conventions. Looking at new signature events and tournaments and then collaborating with existing hotels on the events that we're having. Giving folks a reason to stay, collaborating with our hotels. Some people don't know, but to be able to attract with an event or with a business group, you need an actual code. So again, there's an area of opportunity there. We, of course, want to support the progress of the International Dark Sky Discovery Center. I think one more slide. And then partnering with the Dark Sky Association on a permanent location within Fountain Hills. So again, we have this wonderful designation. Our phone is ringing. The Dark Sky's phone is ringing, but we're having to do planned events to go to certain areas for stargazing. So this is an opportunity that again, at night, you know if its at midnight or 2 in the morning -- we're not a sleepy town, dang it. That there is a place for people to stargaze. Cross -promoting events can be very effective. So we've got spring training, waste management. If people are coming here for a couple of weeks, we have fabulous events. So it's why not come to Fountain Hills? And then looking at potential Page 28 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES opportunities within Fountain Park itself. Again, because I can pick on myself. Again, when I was a visitor, again applying for the job, I went to the fountain. It was beautiful. It was gorgeous. Spent my 10, maybe I didn't last the 15 minutes, but then I didn't know what to do after. So are there things that we can activate within the park? Next steps. So staff is recommending approval. Again, we think it's time. I'll tell you, I've been getting good reviews. People are excited. And then I'll share with you fast, 1:25, so a couple of hours before the strategy planning advisory commission, there were some folks that go ahold of the proposed plan. Been a little gun shy. And they said hey, I saw this in the plan. I get it. It's proposed. It hasn't gone to council. But in a couple of weeks we want to meet with you and John Wesley, looking at a development project. So again, people are excited. Let's keep the momentum going. If you guys do approve the plan, staff will then come to the November council retreat, November 2nd, and have a high-level implementation plan. What's ongoing, short- term, mid-term, long-term. Give you a sneak peek into the short-term objectives. Where there may be some dollars we're wanting attached and just kind of check the pulse of council. And then looking at a phased budget approach back to, again, our downtown. Some things have happened with the downtown. A lot of things where we're looking at nine districts, have not. So we need to take a phased budget approach if we're wanting a vibrant downtown. With that, Mayor, it sounds like you're going to open it up for public comment and then I'll come back for questions. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Do we have any comment cards? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. First in your packet, we'll go through those. We have Geoff Vazzetta, he's for it. Christian Bergman is for it. Andrew Gonzales is for it. Mike Hoops is for it. Suzanne Nann is for it. And then we also have, maybe they're still here in attendance, but Jim Bourdamis, he wishes to comment in writing that he's for it. And Susan Dempster also wishes to comment in writing that she's for it. She Page 29 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES support it. And then we do have two cards -- speaker cards. And so first up is Clayton Corey, and then on deck is Karen Webb. COREY: Hello, Mayor and council. Clayton Cory, eight -year resident. I can't believe it's been that long. Wow. What an amazing presentation. I just wanted to come up here and let you know that I think Amanda and John did a wonderful job with the economic development presentation and I hope that you approve that. I think they bring a lot of good ideas and a lot of energy to something that should have been updated a while ago. It's been about ten years, so it's really something that we've needed. And I think that they have a lot of good ideas with revitalizing downtown, mixed use in particular. So I'm really looking forward to this and I just wanted to say, wow, what a great presentation. So thank you. WEBB: Hello. Hi, Mayor and Councilmember Skillicorn. I am Karen Webb. And I am a resident and a business owner. I'm fully in support of the economic development strategy. I think that we have been here about four and a half, almost five years, and I haven't seen anything really happen on the Avenue. I see it every single day and the -- I hear from so many businesses the stress about just surviving. And what needs to really happen is we need to infuse that vitality that Amanda talks about, not only into the Avenues but honestly into the council. Because this is the time to really revive it. A lot of people were lost curing COVID, you can see the vacancies. And I've heard councilmembers say that the key is just to bring more businesses. I can tell you right now, without the vitality there, the businesses will not come. So I'm excited to see Amanda's plan. I think she's done a phenomenal job. I really, in the entire time I've been here, she's been the only one to really seek out the business owners and inspire us and get us excited about staying and thriving in this town. So I think it's time and before we lose more people, it's time to create that vitality and turn the tables and so have people start coming to this town. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Mayor, I lied. Betsy LaVoie had her comment card. And then we had Page 30 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Larry Meyers submit one. So Larry you're on deck, after Betsy. LAVOIE: Hi, good evening. Betsy LaVoie. You all know me. I've been a resident since 1979, represent the Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce. And as you all know I worked closely with Amanda Jacobs since she started here at the Town of Fountain Hills with the Chamber of Commerce. So I'm here to enthusiastically support the economic development strategy plan proposed for our town by Amanda and her team. I think it's a comprehensive, well - structured plan. It demonstrates clear commitment to fostering economic growth, to fostering and enhancing the quality of life for our residents and positioning Fountain Hills as a thriving and sustainable community. I'm confident that the economic development plan will serve as a catalyst for positive change in our community. I'm hopeful it will not only boost our economic vitality but also enhance our town's appeal, and overall appeal, making it a more desirable place to not only work but live and visit. Thank you. MEYERS: Mayor, council, Larry Meyers. Resident 42 years. I support this plan. It's admirable. It's been talked for 30 years probably. With one exception, and I'm going to take you to the way back machine. I am not in favor of any administrative control over rezoning and business building and development in any section of town, and I'll tell you why. So a group of residents, way back, five years, six years, opposed the nursing home at the entrance to town at the corner of Trevino and Saguaro. It would have been a bad look for the town, I don't care what you have to say. Come here to die, we're all old. And it was a struggle and we stopped it. And I personally negotiated the deal with Dan Kaufmann (ph.) to bring the medical center here. And we got it here. And it got built. It just didn't get built correctly, because the town service director overlooked about five or six town ordinances, exposed mechanical, a vegetation plan that was never enforced. Trevino getting widened to accommodate the traffic jam at the bottom of the hill. There's a few others and I'm not going to bore you with them. And that's why I don't want administrative control. I think the planning and zoning people did a heck of a job. Page 31 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES They worked through all the things. The residents weren't happy about some of the stuff. Ambulances weren't supposed to backup and they still do, because of the beeping alarm. Nobody enforces that. And that's all due to the fact that everybody let it be administrative control. And Mayor, I remember when this came up and phase two and phase three were under consideration and this SUP was given administrative control, you personally said we might have to revisit this for phase two and phase three. So if they're going to expand, you're going to revisit it. But as for the rest of this stuff, if it's a great idea, I think the planning and zoning commission, which are all people volunteering that you've appointed, should have a say in this, not just some bureaucrat sitting up in town hall making decisions where the citizens don't get a chance to speak. And that's the only point of Amanda's presentation that I will fight to the death on. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, ma'am. GOODWIN: Mayor, to Aaron's comments earlier. I'd like to ask John if he'd like to clarify anything? I realize that that's out of context of what we're talking about tonight. John, I realize that's also putting you on the spot. If you'd like to share some follow up after this meeting to Mayor and council you certainly can. MAYOR DICKEY: I'll just add that during that whole process, both of the projects, I was very involved and council was very involved. And one thing I want to mention before we take comments from everybody is that I did notice you saying you worked with John or John was at a meeting with you and such, and I just wanted to point out that many -- well, several years ago, one of the things that a former economic development person said was there was never any interaction and how could development not have to do with economic development? So I really appreciate that and heard that. And I think between the two of you and the other John and everybody else that was involved with this, that you went through a very thorough process. You had obviously had the two meetings, the public meetings. You gave everybody up here the opportunity to meet with you one-on-one, Evelyn Casuga with the Center for the Future of Arizona, I want to Page 32 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES make sure I mentioned her, she was at the League. And how well she did to get us to kind of all come up with some of these ideas. So with that, unless you had something right now, should we start with the questions? Questions and comments from council? Yes, sir. FRIEDEL: Two things. Thanks for the presentation. And to Mr. Meyers, your question. I think most of the projects will come back through the council any way. So we will have some say. So they probably will end up as agenda items. But my one question for you, Amanda, is you highlighted a marketing plan, tourism plan, and a business retention plan and different plans in your presentation. Those will all come back to the council as well, right? JACOBS: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Friedel, traditionally no. Some of those plans don't go back through council because it's operational in nature. It may not be a policy related decision. Anything policy related -- so again to Mr. Meyer's point, doing an overall district, that will have to go through planning and zoning as well as the council as you articulated. And so if there was something that residents took exception to, or council it would be at that point. But those other plans, we would not. Because it's operational in nature and wouldn't be policy related. Unless some of those are tied to a budget. That of course too, we would bring back. You're welcome. MCMAHON: Thank you, Amanda. I read through your presentation before and I thought it was very well done, very focused. It's obvious you're driven. It's obvious you want to represent the town in a great capacity to have it be better and have more business, sustainable, et cetera. It's a lot of work but thank you very much. JACOBS: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? TOTH: Well, I'd like to echo some of that praise, Amanda. I want to very much highlight that you put together this plan, the strategy, put all this work into it, and then said Page 33 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES exactly when were going to start talking about implementation. And I love that and that is my only comment. Thank you. JACOBS: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Vice mayor? GRZVBOWSKI: Two things. First of all, thank you. That was fabulous. I want to -- I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but I do want to mention that I always feel like Parkview gets left out. So I would like to make sure that while we're talking downtown that we remember to include Parkview. Parkview is considered downtown. No matter what people say, we call it downtown on our plate. So we need to treat it as such. Also, I really like your concepts on the public art. I think it's a fantastic idea that it doesn't necessarily have to be what we traditionally consider art. There's so many different forms of art out there. 5o I love that you included that in your presentation. Thank you for thinking about it. JACOBS: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, I also just have things to say that I liked. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't see your little thing here. KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. If I may Ms. Mayor? Thank you. A very good presentation. Well put together. I'd like to see maybe just a little more meat on the bone. And I say that with all due respect. You mention how we would like to streamline business development procedures. We talked about possibly increasing fees for streamlined procedure. We'd been talking about this since I've been on council and tonight 1 was kind of hoping you'd say this is how we're implementing that strategy, instead of just talking about that strategy. I think a lot of the things are really great: public art, partnerships, brochures, aesthetics. That's kind of all the window setting. But like when somebody runs for office or when you are selling computers, you get your signs, your get your brochures, you get your strategy, you get your talking points. But it's not until you start knocking on doors that you get votes or if you're selling computers, you can have everything lined up but you've Page 34 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES got to start knocking an doors and talking to people. I'd kind of like to see if we're trying to attract biosciences that we start going to biosciences conventions and putting up a Fountain Hills booth. I'd like to see if we're trying to attract financial services, maybe we do a mailer to all the Valley financial services, Fountain Hills is open for business. The way I did it in Chicago is I looked at how many people are here and then you look at the type of business that you're trying to court and it's math, as they say. It's all the numbers. If you've got 25,000 people and if you open this kind of a boutique this will be a profitable business. And so I'd just like to see just a little more of that knocking on doors, talking to people, going out into the Valley or beyond and just letting people know. Because if we just work on aesthetics and art, and we're just kind of shuffling the chairs in our town. And we have to reach beyond our town to attract more people to fill all these vacant storefronts that my constituents keep telling me there are too many, and we need to get those filled. And so again, with all due respect, I think your steps are there. There's a lot of good here, but I would just like to see the implementation a little more and just have reports on how we're implementing getting more business owners and more people to populate our empty storefronts. But thank you for all the work. JACOBS: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Toth? TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. And I don't mean to set aside your comments as well. But I just wanted to cut in. Councilwoman Kalivianakis, I appreciate your comments. The economic development strategy is that strategy. So how you mentioned like when we were running for office, right? We needed a strategy; we needed our handouts and then we started knocking doors. This is us approving the strategy. Amanda's talked about our handouts and knocking doors starting November at the council retreat. So that implementation that I just complimented her on, that's what kind of you're talking about that meat on the bones. 5o this specific strategy, I think it's a good overall plan. I think it's something that we Page 35 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES should be passing and I will make a motion once the Mayor's had a chance to say what she wanted to say. MAYOR DICKEY: You can make it now. TOTH: I would like to move to approve the economic development strategy as presented by Amanda Jacobs. Thank you. SKILLICORN: Second. GRZYBOWSKI: And I just wanted to expand on Councilmember Toth's statement that a strategy is a high-level, big umbrella picture of what's going on. It's not the intricacies involved. You'll come back, we'll talk about that in November and you'll continue your quarterly updates to us and we'll still have an opportunity to keep communication open. So I don't feel like anything was missing. Just wanted to reiterate Councilmember Toth there. MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. So when we talk about housing and possibly having more, I want to make sure that we have some parks involved with that. One of the things that, when we talk about having younger people live here and you look at some of the other communities, there's a lot -- there are neighborhood parks that are walkable. So that might be part of that conversation. I love the performing art thing. Placemaking strategy to enhance the vibrancy of downtown. We had a speaker come up earlier, TAMA, I think. We've been hoping that that group would be a big partner with this and so I can see that that will happen. Second Thursdays? What happened to third Thursdays? Isn't that we talked about? Kind of sounds rolled off the tongue. JACOBS: So Madam Mayor again, high-level -- it's just a concept. We're not picking right? We're not implementing that it's second or -- MAYOR DICKEY: It's just I thought of third Thursday, so I want to make sure that that goes on the record. JACOBS: We'II consider that. MAYOR DICKEY: Attracting the university and satellite, so I love that. You kind of tie that in with the fact that some of our focus is on medical and nursing schools. There's nursing shortages, medical schools. So sort of that niche thing. Even PAs and EMTs. I Page 36 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES know some firefighters and such, they train in other cities than where they're working. So there could be opportunities there. You mention a issue as far as the town pipeline. I hope that we would make sure that that is included in that, and that's the Fountain Hills School District because that's kind of along those same lines and years ago we looked at what they called -- I think it was in Minnesota but it was called a college preparedness school, which was a really unique -- we were finding that kids were getting out of high school and maybe not doing as well as they could in college. And this was something -- it wasn't adding extra time but it was something that kids could go to. And again, the kind of thing that you can attract people to come here even though we're not right on the 101 and the 202 as such. You know, it's got to be something that really fits well. And the astrotourism, obviously does. And again, you had that crossing over with other events. So when we have a Super Bowl here and I know we used to go to NASCAR races and you could go to the one in New Hampshire and you'd stay as far away as Boston. So even though the NASCAR race is over in Avondale, you could packages together here and get you there. So I think that's really awesome that you thought of that. And the last thing is recognizing our weather. Recognizing that you don't go to Cape Cod in December and get a lot of action. So what do we do to always make sure that we're aware of that and not try to do something that's not going to happen because it's a 110 degrees or something. So I appreciate that you're recognizing that. And I think that the whole thing is a great step. We will bring forward the implementation which has a lot more of where we'll actually go, what the next steps are and that it will take some years and we're ready for that. So we have a motion and a second on the table. Are there any other further comments? Can we get a roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor. Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Yes. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? Page 37 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you, Amanda. Rest your voice. JACOBS: Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: You made it through the whole thing. Our next item is adoption of resolution approving a new -- adding an ethics complaint procedure in our council rules of procedure. I think we'll start with Linda. MENDENHALL: Okay. So are we doing comments or are we going to talk about it real quick? MAYOR DICKEY: So we hear from staff. So whatever the presentation is. MENDENHALL: All right. MAYOR DICKEY: And then we'll take comments and then we will go through. And I was speaking over to councilwoman about this and I think what we can do, if it's okay with all of you, after we have the comments, let's have someone make a motion on the main motion. That way when we go through section by section, if there are amendments we can vote on them at the spot. Because we will have had the main motion. So does that work? So we're not like discussing and wondering what we thought later. We'II actually vote on them, okay? KALIVIANAKIS: Vep. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Page 38 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Linda? MENDENHALL: Okay. So before you today is an update to the council rules of procedure and adding the ethics complaint procedure policy to the rules of procedure. This came about as -- it started with the ethics complaint procedure. We started receiving more ethics complaints and so we wanted to have a way to deal with those to make sure that everything was logged in, that there were some check and balances, that I would receive it, and then I would forward it along and who is responding. So we wanted to get a process in place. And so we started doing some research of what other municipalities did and then it evolved into updating the rules of procedure with respect to our elected officials. I would say it's more -- we're representing our town, and so we needed to find a line of how we were to do that, covering free speech and also their ability to represent the town based on comments from the public. And so it's a balancing act. And so what we did is we reviewed different municipalities with respect to their ethics procedures, their code of conduct and added some of that information in there. And what I'd like to do is go over it after public comment. Is there any questions? Anyone want to add anything Rachael, Aaron? MAYOR DICKEY: Just wanted -- yeah. Rachael and Aaron, do you have anything to add? GOODWIN: No. And I think you covered a lot of the high points. I think what the understanding is is that this is a draft. It's intended to be a draft. It's intended for discussion and feedback and direction. It sort of evolved as it was going through. Again, there was a lot of feedback and a lot of different things happening internally. And I wanted to really echo what Linda mentioned is that there is an accord between professional decorum and constitutional rights. And this is a first draft that is trying to navigate a balance between the two. So Linda's comments of a balancing act are exactly right. But we are anxious and very receptive to comments, feedbacks, and direction on this draft. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Page 39 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES Do we have any speaker cards? MENDENHALL: We have quite a few. Okay, so what we're going to do is we're going to go through the packet real quick for the people who submitted written comments and you have a -- it's in your packet. The first one is Debbie Elder, and she's against it and she also made a comment. So you'll want to read that. Patrick Flynn also is against it and he made a comment as well. Darla and Tom Jacobs are against it. And they also made a comment. Rory Wilson is for it. She did not make a comment though. Steven Schmidt is against it and he made a comment as well. Gina Waldo made a comment that she's against it and also a comment. Nancy Thornes is against it and she made a comment that you'll want to read. Sandi Meehan is against it and she has a comment as well. Alan Meehan is also against it and has a comment. Dina Galassini is against it and has a comment as well. Sharon Fried has a -- made comment and she's against it. Laurie Scherer, RN -- hopefully I said your name right, Laurie. She's against it and made a comment as well. Victor Scherer, he's against it and made a comment as well. Jeri Hensel is against it and made a comment as well. Richard Rutkowski -- Dr. Richard Rutkowski, he is against it. Oh, he wants to speak. So we'll set -- put yours to the side. And then Wendy Klocke is against it and she made a comment. Trinette Cannon is against it and made a comment. Kathleen Sylvie is against it and also made a comment. And Art Sylvie is against it and made a comment. Faryl Palles, is against -- no. She is for it and made a comment as well. Robert Petersen is against it and made a comment. I think he submitted twice but I printed it because he may just want you to know he's against it. He's really against it. Okay. So now we'll go to the people who want to comment in person. MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me. I just want to make a comment that a lot of the -- when you said the people were against it and they made comments, I'm looking through them. It appears that people think this is applying to them. So just as we move forward I just want people to know it does not apply to them, it only applies to us. Thank you. MCMAHON: I second that. Because it looks as though they think they're going to lose Page 40 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES some right to free speech and this has nothing to do with that. So most of the ones as you read through them, that is what I understand they're against. And don't understand the concept of what we're doing here. MENDENHALL: Right. And that it's for the rules of procedure that pertain to the council and to the boarding commission members as well. KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to make a point of order and a comment. My point of order is addressing Rachael, when she said this was just a draft for discussion. If you look at the regular agenda items, all three items, A, B, and C were consideration possible action. And so this isn't just a draft set for discussion. This is set for action. And then the second thing is, with all due respect, Ms. Mayor, I don't think that we can get into the minds of the people that wrote these comment cards and assume that they didn't understand what we're voting on tonight. I think that's a little bit of an insult to the people who took time to fill out the comment cards that they didn't understand what they were commenting on. And so I'd just like to put that on the record. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, I'm not meaning to insult anybody. But when they say you're taking away my free speech, I want people to understand it's not -- it doesn't pertain to the public; it just pertains to us. MENDENHALL: Okay. First will be Dr. Richard Rutkowski and then on deck will be Crystal Cavanaugh. RUTKOWSKI: Good evening Mayor and councilmembers. Rich Rutkowski, 22 year resident of Fountain Hills. I oppose the adoption of Resolution 2023-30, specifically the proposed new language in section 8.4(a) of the rules of procedure. And I do understand to whom it applies. While it is important to maintain public confidence in town government, that's a quote from the proposal. As stated at the beginning of that section, the additional proposed language present several serious concerns. While claiming to, quote, recognize the exercise of free speech, end quote, much of the language does the opposite. For example, quote, refrain from spreading hate speech misinformation. These terms are subjective and not clearly defined. And as we have witnessed in recent years, what Page 41 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES is considered misinformation by some is considered factual and accurate by others. As we have also witnessed, what is at first characterized as misinformation is often later determined and proven to be the truth. Second quote, avoiding personal attacks or derogatory language. Is it derogatory to question the actions or votes of a public official? If someone characterizes the vote of an individual as being harmful or contrary to the public good, is that derogatory? It's certainly not a compliment to say that they criticize that vote. Again it's subjective and essentially undefined. Next quote, refrain from making verbal attacks upon the character or motives of other members of the council, boards, commissions, the staff, or the public. Now that's a very broad and vague restriction, which in practical terms limits any negative comment or opinion. And that is not free speech. Next quote, refrain from making disparaging remarks about other members of the council, boards, commissions, the staff, or the public. This basically says the same thing in another way and yet again places limits on true free speech. Respect for others is an admirable and desirable trait for all of us and should definitely be expected in our public officials. One can be respectful, disagree, and express that disagreement. However, if respect is to be legislated as is somewhat proposed here, that legislation of the rules should be and must be objective and clearly defined and must not in any way limit free speech. Those rules should not in any way be able to impose anyone's personal biases or concept of what constitutes misinformation, what is disparaging, what is derogatory upon others. The proposed language in section 8.4(a) does not meet these criteria and I urge you to vote no on this resolution. Thank you. MENDENHALL: I'm sorry. MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. CAVANAUGH: Should I wait? MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). CAVANAUGH: That's okay. I strongly oppose implementing a fee to file ethics Page 42 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES complaints and I would like to go on record to say I never have actually filed one myself. I'm also aware that some have filed multiple unfounded nuisance complaints over this past year. That is indeed unfortunate. However, it is a matter of free speech. This is the designated recourse that citizens have to hold elected officials in check if need be. Will some abuse the process? Of course. But to punish all others is not reasonable. On the other hand, if false malicious accusations are made against councilmembers that rise to a level of prosecution, for example, that's another matter entirely. And the wronged party could certainly pursue legal recourse against that person. There seems to be other first steps that should be taken before restricting free speech through fees. Have you considered announcing at council meetings who has filed ethics complaints that month and the end results? I think over time people who file multiple frivolous complaints will hopefully be discouraged from wasting town resources. And there seems to be a lot of subjective speech in some of the redline changes. Hate speech, how our words affect others, misinformation, infringing, marginalized or vulnerable communities, insensitive language, and verbal attacks on motives, to name several. What hasn't been working as it is currently written, there is a certain level of decorum that should be expected by both the council and the public and usually that occurs. But sometimes on both ends, it does not. But micromanaging speech or requiring personal finances to play a role in decisions to file, does not seem to be the answer. Be careful what you wish for. Depending who's in the majority can impact the decisions or the implementation of consequences base on subjective measures. Thanks. MENDENHALL: Next we have Liz Gildersleeve and on deck, Mathew Corrigan. GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening. Liz Gildersleeve, Fountain Hills resident. The only resolution to resolution 2023-30 is not resolving it at all. It must be, in my opinion, completely rejected. Implementing roadblocks to make it harder for residents to voice their concerns about elected officials is simply unconscionable and maybe even unconstitutional. Yes, even those that aggravate you by filing ethics complaints frequently have an absolute right to do so. Ethics complaints are a form of checks and Page 43 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES balances and the price we all pay for living in a free society. The cost to the town of $11,000 in fiscal year 2023, as stated in the agenda, to investigate ethics complaints against councilmembers is a drop in the bucket for what taxpayers pay for things like studies that you approve regularly. At the last council meeting for example, the majority of you approved a parking analysis and a traffic light study totaling $82,000. But now $11,000 gives you angst? Even more troubling than the $200 proposed ethics complaint filing fee to residents is the redlining that was done to the code of ethics itself. After reading the suggested changes yesterday I felt like I'd been dropped in a George Orwell novel. Now you get to regulate and decide hate speech, censure your peers, and decide which of our laws are equitable. There is so much ambiguity in the proposed changes that I can't cover it all in three minutes tonight. But bottom line, this redlined code of ethics and rules of procedure, takes a supposed problem and makes it far worse. So who's going to stand up tonight against this garbage? I would encourage each of you to throw out every word of this redlined resolution and vote no on the ethics complaint filing fee and move on to more important business for the town, like the MCSO contract, code enforcement of signs, the solicitation ordinance and 5G, just to name a few things. This agenda item and resolution is completely nonsense and I can't believe we're wasting time on it tonight. Thank you for listening. MENDENHALL: Next we have -- oh, sorry. Matthew. CORRIGAN: Madam Mayor, councilmembers, good evening. Mathew Corrigan, home owner in Fountain Hills. And I'd like to, to a certain extent, reiterate what's already been said. However, I think the ethics resolution could be a good one. But let me tell you why 1 think it should change. Page 22, section 8.1, the word, "equitable" in line 4 could have multiple meanings. Equal on the other hand, is objective and means having the same privilege, status, and rights. The phrase equal justice under law, for example. A good example. Equitable is subjective and can apply to a balanced or biased analysis. Fairness is Page 44 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES assumed to be a popular opinion rather than a rational analysis. Equity and inclusion, for example, can imply social justice as equity instead of equality. Eliminate the word, "equitable" and add equal. Page 23, section 8.4(a), line 8, refrain from spreading hate speech. Wow. The term, "hate speech" is subjective and should be eliminated. The term, "misinformation", is subjective and should be eliminated, line 10, 11, 12. Our words might affect marginalized or vulnerable communities. Both phrases are subjective and should be eliminated. Also potential harm that insensitive language might cause, is subjective and should be eliminated. Page 23, section 8.4(c) line 4, stakeholders, a new term, is subjective, not defined, and is clearly not specific and it is defined and that should be eliminated. Page 24, section 8.7, seek no favor. Believe that personal benefit or profit secured by confidential or privileged information or by misuse of public time is dishonest. Yes, it is. This section seems to be ill-defined and vague at best. I suggest you eliminate that statement in favor of a clear definition, one that can be defined. Page 32, section 2 -- sorry, page 32, 10.2 code of ethics. The $200 can be waived if the complainant receives sponsorship from a member of the town council. That might give cause for pause. We have had very skeptical ethic complaints from some community members, but again that doesn't justify a councilmember speaking up and allowing that to disappear. Page 33, section 10.6, line 3, members of the public body, filing fee is waived. Members of the public body may use anyone of the following methods to file a complaint. Eliminate section 10.6. by eliminating these six parts, you might have a better proposals at hand. Thank you. MENDENHALL: Next we have Lori Troller and on deck, Larry Meyers. TROLLER: Hi, Mayor, council. Linda. I never get her. Rachael, Aaron. Lori Troller, resident. Thanks to the Mayor for bringing up the topic of hate speech in effect. It's a perfect opportunity to discuss exactly what can and cannot be done with Page 95 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES the First Amendment. You can't put a fine on someone for speaking. You can't gavel someone if you don't like what they said. You can't punish someone for speech. You can't force one to speak an apology. And you can't overturn voters by a simple majority vote. Ethics violations are more than a sour mark on the council's record or on a councilman's record. It's the process by which we, the people, have checks and balances to curb rogue council behavior. Not only are the proposed changes to the code of ethics violating the process of checks and balances, they are violations against the First Amendment. Whatever legal counsel is advising for these changes, is seriously in legal jeopardy and incorrectly advising the council. If there is an issue motivating these changes, I ask that you go back to the drawing board for a legal solution. All public servants have sworn to uphold the Arizona and United States' constitutions. Your signed oath is a contract with We, the People, to accept frequent, recurrent, and fundamental principles and minimal or -- and to maintain individual rights. See the right of petition, assembly, speech, and press. Nowhere does the Constitution specify word, time limit, or allow a servant to remove a right by rule or code. For rights that are secured by the Constitution, there can be no rulemaking or legislation which would abrogate them. Which means to do away with or annul. Your lesson tonight is that to vote against the Constitution by any rule or code is to breach the contract you swore as a public servant and a trustee to my rights and everyone's rights. In a trust, when a trustee breaches a contract, that contract is dissolved. Therefore, you have dissolved your position of office and granted authority. Worse, by acting outside your sworn lawful position to uphold the Constitution, you're now personally liable for trespass, maladministration, and malfeasance. Consider this a verbal explanation of a forthcoming notice I will serve if necessary. Thank you. MEYERS: Mayor, council. Larry Meyers, 42-year resident. I am, too, against charging for filing of ethics complaints. And I think you're probably Page 46 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES coming to that conclusion. I think possibly those frivolous and frequent filers may be public acknowledgement here from the dais, and that would discourage them from being frequent and frivolous. Maybe they'd be more detailed and to the point. I personally don't know why we have to change the one we had. I liked it. I think it covered just about everything. Section 8.1, says, "Obey the Constitution and laws of the United States of America, the constitution and laws of the State of Arizona, and the laws of the Town of Fountain Hills". Pretty much says what your job is. If you did the first part, you don't need the part that says, "Work to enact and enforce just and equitable laws that promote the well-being of our community". If you do the first part, you've already covered the second part. And we won't have any arbiter. Then we get to section 8.4(a) and while it sounds nice, it's just a violation of 8.1, as it is regulating speech. I ask again, amongst you on the dais, who is the arbiter of this speech marginalizing, et cetera? And any rewrite to rein in anyone's public or private speech violates 8.1. Further as to the public, the only demeaning speech that I've heard at council meetings comes from town folks, specifically mostly railing against Councilmember Skillicorn and Councilmember Toth, and mostly personal attacks, never gaveled. And I have yet to witness either of them even make a comment. They've sat there and taken it. Which is to the point. It's the person's right to say what they say and it's your right to sit there and take it. So I would ask why are we even doing this? We've got the MCSO issue. We've got 5G, I beg your pardon, since April of 2022 being discussed. We've had provisions stripped out of the detox ordinance that all the other towns and communities are putting in, insurance and inspection provisions. We haven't talked about that. The sign ordinance is certainly a mess. You can't figure out where to put it, where the daylight is. So don't charge them for the ethics violations, keep the old one. We don't need any red in this thing and let it be, and move on. Thank you. MENDENHALL: We have one last comment. It's Robert Petersen. Page 47 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES PETERSEN: Mayor, councilmembers. I'm a almost nine-year resident of Fountain Hills. I will die here. This is a wonderful town. But I am an absolutist on free speech. I don't know how many of you -- you're all youngish and you may or may not have ever heard of Mario Savio. He led the free speech movement at University of California in the very early 1960s. He was a moron. Virtually everything he said was stupid, but he is one of my heroes, posthumously. He said things. He defended everyone else's right to say things. The last few years in national politics we've been talking about hate speech and so on. Unless someone is saying this person or this group should be exterminated, I don't think it's hate speech. It may be stupid, it probably is stupid, but we got to stand up for stupid speech because repressing speech does nothing but harm. And First Amendment forever. That's all. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, all. Does anything change what we want to do to proceed or-- Brenda? Because my thought was that we would make a main motion which would allow us to amend it. And we can still do that if somebody moves the main motion and someone seconds it. Then we can discuss it and amend it as we go along. I'll defer to you. KALIVIANAKIS: Just a few thoughts. Yeah, we do have the main motion. Just so everybody at home and here knows, I did draft and submit that to everybody up here, and amendment to 9(c) that denudes or guts all of the redline language for the most part, leaving in the harmless stuff. Based on the comments that I've heard today, exactly what I was going to say up here. And so I think -- unless, Mayor, if you or anybody else here would like to, I guess, state the opposition to what we've heard tonight, I'm ready to vote on either the main motion or on the amendment. Because I think we've reached a point. The arguments have been made, unless there's a counterargument to be made, I'd love to hear it. I'd just like to vote. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? MCMAHON: I didn't see the document that you sent because I haven't had time, so I Page 48 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES can't consider it. It was sent to all of us. I wasn't on notice, so my concern was with open (indiscernible). I did go through the document that we have, so that's all I have to reference. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? Vice mayor? GRZYBOWSKI: While I do have a lot of things I'd like to discuss if we're to go item by item. My first comment is why are we even doing this? Why are we governing ourselves? I do not believe that as an elected official we should be making our own code of ethics. This should be done for us. If my mom had to ask me, when I was a sophomore in high school, what do you want your curfew to be? Guess what it would have been? And I just -- I feel like we're letting the fox into the henhouse. 5o I want to go on record that I think it's completely asinine that we're even having this conversation. That being said, I do have things to discuss along each number. If we feel that we have to continue this, I will support it as a council but I think it's asinine. MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman? TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. I just wanted to address the previous statement regarding the open meeting laws. We pretty specifically voted on this being the -- we voted on it right? This being the process for when were wanting to have a handout at the meeting. That's turned into Linda and then Linda sends to everybody. I remember us having a conversation about that and that was sent to all of us by Linda. That was -- ARNSON: And Mayor and Councilmember Toth, you're correct. We did institute something where we said we would share in advance. We may need to refine what we did to make sure that the process for getting it out is in order and that it's soon enough to ensure that it's getting out in the appropriate way. But yes, it was sent out in advance to your point. TOTH: Okay. ARNSON: Yes. TOTH: Thank you. Yeah, my main concern was just the comment regarding open Page 49 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES meeting law. We're not doing anything against open meeting law, otherwise we wouldn't have passed that procedure. So, thank you. FRIEDEL: Aaron, can I ask you a question? ARNSON: Sure. FRIEDEL: So in lieu of the fee, can we -- there was suggested here that the town manager or somebody list the filers of the ethics complaints. Can we do that in lieu of the fee? Would that be something we could do without any issue? I'm worried about the fee turning people off from -- and I was a proponent of the fee. ARNSON: That was the idea, right? FRIEDEL: Yeah. ARNSON: Is that if you have serial complainants, that it serves as some sort of a deterrent. FRIEDEL: Right. So now I'm wondering if it might be better to, in lieu of charging the fee, take that suggestion and have the town manager recite what violation or what complaints have been filed in lieu of the fee and see how that works? That's always something we could always amend at a future date, if that doesn't seem to remedy the situation. I don't know. That's just something I'll throw out for everybody to think about. ARNSON: If I could respond to that, councilmember. 5o Mayor and Councilmember Friedel, the suggestion for any sort of a deterrent to mitigate those serial complaints, is a good one. Fee is one option. You know, the manager putting in the packet somewhere. We've done something similar in another jurisdiction where we reported who are the complaints from and -- actually, I think it was with respect to public records requests, frankly. But who it came from and how much was spent in resolving it, right? So that's an option. I don't know how, operationally, Rachael, that works. But legally it's an option. FRIEDEL: Because I have heard from at least a half a dozen residents today about the fee. Several of them saying, hey, we're -- why should we give up our right? We're on a fixed income and the fee is tough for them. So I want to recognize that. Page 50 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES ARNSON: I got that. I think I understand that. I did want to -- Mayor, if I may? I see that Councilmember McMahon has her light on. I do want to make clear that some of the comments that came from the public tonight were about, you know, this is the constitutional method or the way by which we hold councilmembers accountable. It's what we've adopted in our code as a process for filing ethics complaints. There's nothing in the Constitution that says you have to have an ethics complaint process. You can remove the thing entirely if you wanted to. You're not going to choose to do that tonight, I presume. But you could. There's no constitutional right to make an ethics complaint. So likewise, there's no constitutional right that would prohibit us from imposing some sort of cost mitigation on that. It's not like were imposing the right to make speech that's constitutionally guaranteed. So I did want to make sure that we understand that. Some jurisdictions don't have them at all. Other jurisdictions do have them and they're a lot more fleshed out than this. So I want to make that clear. Whatever we do to Councilmember Friedel's point, there does need to be -- whether tonight or at future adoption date, I do recommend that there be some sort of deterrent for the frequent complaints. That's how this whole thing got started. And frankly, as the town clerk referenced earlier, this conversation started as a procedural discussion about how are we going to intake complaints? How are we going to keep track of them to make sure they don't get lost in the shuffle? How are we going to make sure they're processed in a timely manner? And most importantly, how do we stop the influx that's, in some respects, wasting town money and resources. We don't want those and we don't want to deter good complaints or complaints that may have merit. So that might be a good option. Anyway, that's kind of what I wanted to put out for council's consideration. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman? SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm curious, and this is -- it's totally serious of how many actual comments we had on this. I think this is the record breaker, and I kind of wonder if we charge $200 per comment, if we could pave our roads with that. Page 51 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES But actually, I'm kind of just prepared to -- we had a comment about making this to a vote. I'm prepared to just make a motion. You know, I read through the amended draft by Councilmember Kalivianakis and I'd like to make a motion to approve that with one small amendment and that is just to include the names of the filers with that. So if there's a second? FRIEDEL: Second. ARNSON: Can I ask for point of clarification? We just had a big discussion about not charging a fee. MAYOR DICKEY: Right. ARNSON: The amendment contemplates charging a fee. So is that what you're moving for? SKILLICORN: I'm striking it. MCMAHON: I have a comment, please, if you don't mind. Not to mix things up very much. But based upon what you said, the objective of this was to look at charging fees. Theres a lot more in this than charging fees. I think that there's a lot of language, et cetera, that's been added that I would like some legal advice on before moving forward, and I would like to know, if this is possible, is if we can move to remove this from tonight's discussion, have an executive session to go over it and figure out the exact meaning of why we're doing this and narrow it down to that, before entertaining any motions or votes. MAYOR DICKEY: Council, Attorney, I agree that some of the items that were brought up did have legal ramifications. I don't -- again, I don't believe that we're stopping free speech. And I agree with Sharron that it's unfortunate that we're a golden rule community and yet we have to explicitly define do unto others here. And we've always had this though, even though it hasn't been as specific. But I think that it's not only the money that we're spending and the time that is being used that could be used for other resources as we go through a lot of these complaints. But it's also -- we have been getting emails from constituents upset by some of the things that they've heard had been said. Some of the things that have been said about our staff. So it wasn't just an Page 52 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES organic -- I mean it was an organic broadening of this item after we've realized that people were upset about some of the comments that they've heard. Some of the way that our staff has been referred to, to a lesser extent each other. But there are disparaging remarks being made, some threatening, some targeting remarks. We have vague targeting, we have vague threats, we have overt threats, we have public statements that are made that I don't think are for the good of the community. And yeah, some of it is subjective. But we've got people -- when we get elected, we are not to be alienating members of our constituency. We have a code of ethics. lust to jump to the last part of the amendments. The part about whether we can turn it around and say that we're getting accused of something. Well, we all know up here that we have a higher threshold and there's not a lot for us to do if somebody disparages us. We can't really -- we don't have the same rights that other people do to defend ourselves. There's a higher threshold there. But we don't have -- but then when we say things that maybe we shouldn't be saying. We write letters to the editor that say things that didn't actually happen at meetings, and then they're taken. I think back to something that happened a couple of years ago where a councilmember did something and was specifically said, if you weren't a councilmember, it would have just been fine. But your words had more something to them. So we have to take that seriously. That said, we are definitely not in agreement on the charging, I don't think. It doesn't sound like we are. The last part of your amendments there, with the kind of way that we can make people pay. Like, so if they bring something forward and it's found without merit and it cost $1,200, what we just motioned and seconded on, would make the person making the complaint pay that whole amount. Do you really want to do that? MCMAHON: (Indiscernible). KALIVIANAKIS: If I could just clarify that? And to clarify that but to just back up a little bit. I mean, two weeks ago, we discussed the U.S. Constitution and freedom of speech. We discussed a stranger going up to somebody on the street and saying hey, I'm short Page 53 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES on cash, can I get a few bucks off you? And we couldn't regulate that speech. And we didn't pass that ordinance, respecting freedom of speech. Mayor, you said that threatening behavior tonight, that we get threatened. We do get threatened. On the other hand, there is a remedy because threats aren't free speech. And so if somebody says I'm going to hurt you, I'm going to kill your cat, you can turn that in to law enforcement. So there is a remedy if they cross a line of free speech. Free speech, you can't yell fire in a movie theater. And so it's not unlimited speech. So if somebody threatens one of us, that's not constitutionally protected. As far as the fee, actually I'd been receiving the same complaints that Gerry has and maybe many of you. I would be for just waiving that fee. Because, and in my motion to amend, I wanted to add 10.4. In the case of an ethics complaint being filed and forwarded to outside counsel for a review, outside counsel shall make a determination whether the complaint has merit or is without merit and deemed frivolous. If deemed without merit and frivolous, the petitioner, the person that would have paid the $250 shall agree to pay the legal expenses associated with the claim. And so that in itself would deter people from filing frivolous claims. So we don't have to hit them on the front end with a fee and then on the back end too. And then I also put other language in there about false or frivolous complaints. They are subject to criminal prosecution for perjury if they file something against the law. And by the way, that was taken right from Scottsdale. And so they've already vetted that with their attorneys. GRZYBOWSKI: I know Councilmember Toth has her light lit, but while you're talking about that one particular item, I feel like we're asking more of the citizens in this particular section. We're holding them to a higher standard than we are to ourselves. Because we're trying to remove the misinformation section but yet we're telling the citizens at the same time you can't come to us with a frivolous and misinformation -- it just doesn't make sense to me. So now y'all are held to a higher standard than we are, is what I see in this documentation, and that's just one of the problems that I have with it. I honestly, I Page 54 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES would like to go through each of the items. 8.1, I feel like you deleted too many words. I still disagree with it, but I don't understand why you want to delete the words, "just and equitable laws", because then it reads, "work to enact and promote the well-being of our community". So I feel like we do need to address these things individually, item by item and not just carte blanche approve everything. Thank you. Sorry. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: That's okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I have a few points to address here as well. I'm just scrolling up to -- because I realize I also want to kind of piggyback off of what Sharron was saying. I apologize, Councilwoman Grzybowski. GRZYBOWSKI: It's okay. TOTH: Point being with -- I do, thinking about it now, share the concern when we talk about the individual. If they are to file a frivolous claim that they would be liable for that legal expense. And the reason I have this concern is who defines frivolous? Who decides whether or not you had the right to take issue with something? I have some concerns about where that could very easily become a slippery slope. Where I understand that we do receive frivolous complaints and we do receive complaints that don't quite make sense or whatever the issue might be. I do hesitate to err on the side of restricting someone's ability to raise an issue if they do have one. And then whether or not outside counsel decides if that's important enough, that should not be their financial responsibility. So that would be my one suggestion as we continue discussions with that motion that we do already have on the table. On top of that, when we do talk about the removing misinformation, the reason that I support that personally, misinformation is an extremely vague term. And as was brought up in call to the public, several things that were misinformation two years ago, three years ago, four years ago are now not misinformation. A really good example of that is just the history when it comes to what has been referred to recently as the science. Well, science is all about questioning, right? Back in the day we believed that the earth was flat and if you said the earth was round you'd get stoned. Further than Page 55 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES that, lead paint; we used to think that was safe. All fats are bad for you, not true. Avocado fats are now pretty widely considered healthy for you. Carbs being the base of the food pyramid -- the list goes on and on and on. Science is always changing, always evolving. When we talk about misinformation and if people are speaking about a really hot topic right now, vaccine injuries. Four years ago, five years ago, it was not considered a real thing at all. If you brought it up, you were a nutjob. Well, now these stories are coming out and it's been proven that these things do happen. Maybe it's a small percentage, but it does occur. My point in bringing all of that up is, I take major, major issue with limiting misinformation with the same reason that I take issue for the frivolous thing. Because who defines misinformation? Who gets to tell you what is or is not true? Who is the authority on scientific truth when it comes to the council in Fountain Hills? KALIVIANAKIS: You want to go first? MAYOR DICKEY: I just want to see -- ARNSON: Oh, I'm sorry. Do you mind if I just interrupt? MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, go ahead. ARNSON: Oh, sorry. KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you. And this will be quick. But I want to address Councilmember Toth. That's why I struck out that misinformation. That's just going to be gone if we adopt the amended. Because your points are 100 percent valid. And as far as your concerns about 10.4, and this will be reviewed by the outside counsel to see whether it's meritless or has merit. And just again, my experience as an attorney and I think, in Aaron's experience as an attorney, when I used to be in the State's Attorney's office people would file charges which I would review before they were filed. Attorneys do this all the time and you'd get the complaint: crap, crap, file, file. It's easy. It's really easy to determine if somebody is doing this maliciously just by reading the pleadings or if there's some substance. And so I think we can trust on whoever the outside counsel is to read through this and say no, this is meritless. This is a person that's just got an axe to grind. If that will allay your fears because I'd like to pass it as is. Page 56 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Councilmember? SKILLICORN: What I have to say might make what you want to say moot. I'd like to amend my motion to take out the $200 fee. I don't know if Councilmember Friedel wants to amend his second? FRIEDEL: No, that's fine. SKILLICORN: Okay. ARNSON: Great debate, great discussion. And I don't -- it can continue for as long as the council sees fit. There was a question -- the only thing I want to respond to is Councilmember McMahon's question about postponing discussion. I want to talk about if that's going to happen the appropriate procedure since you had a question that I didn't get the opportunity to answer. That has to be in the form of a motion. It has to be seconded. It takes precedence over the main motion according to our rules of procedure, but if it fails, we proceed with voting on the main motion. MCMAHON: Do I need to make a motion then? ARNSON: You would need to make a motion to postpone. MCMAHON: So I make a motion to -- ARNSON: Postpone indefinitely. And we would bring it -- and staff would bring it back for discussion. MAYOR DICKEY: This is a discussion that we are able to have in executive session? ARNSON: You can get legal advice in executive session. MCMAHON: Yes. And that's what I would like. I think that -- I appreciate everybody's discussion. There's been a lot o f words and things said that they don't understand what -- frivolous, or not understand and excuse me, who gets to decide that, et cetera. I think that there are so many questions in the document about -- that I would appreciate legal direction on and refine it down to the essence of the matter so that we can feel that we are voting on a document that's going to stand up. So I'd like to make a motion that we table this and we move it to executive session for legal advice. Page 57 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Is there a second? Okay. Then I want to discuss the motion that's on the table. Because it's basically, what your amendments here, including the last part. But just taking out the $200. So again, I just have an issue -- one of the issues is about how do you decide something that's frivolous. I get what you're saying. But obviously, if it was that easy we wouldn't have had all of the things that have happened here. And so it's not that easy for everybody to say something is frivolous. Or again, you have without merit. So basically, if somebody brought something forward and there was no finding and it was without merit, then we would tell that person that they had to pay for that complaint, which can be 1,200 bucks or something. So I don't want to pass that. I don't want to pass that part. And then I don't like the part where you get to have a sponsor. I think that's also something that -- I think there's a lot that's still there even with your amendments that I would -- KALIVIANAKIS: Just to address that. On the sponsor, since there's no fee, I don't think you need the sponsor, because you could file it without the fee. The sponsor was to waive the fee. MAYOR DICKEY: I understand that. KALIVIANAKIS: So that would moot, that point. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, it would. But the language is still there. I think it's kind of -- it's not going to look like a very good document for us to be voting on. In my opinion, I would prefer to not do that. But the changes that you made, again, you took out the words, "just and equitable laws". And like Sharron said, we probably just meant just and equitable. I just think that there are issues here that I would rather go back and fix it, clean it up a little bit. Let's see. Well, you left that part, so that's okay. And the gentleman had said something about saying equal instead of equitable. So that would be something to change. GRZYBOWSKI: Did you pass 8.2, because I want to mention something about that? MAYOR DICKEY: Well, let's just say 8.1 then. Page 58 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. MAYOR DICKEY: It's like an amendment, I guess. But instead of saying, remove just and equitable laws, can we change it to just and equal laws. SKILLICORN: I can amend my motion and put laws back in, in 8.1. ARNSON: What kind of laws? Just and equal laws or just and equitable laws? SKILLICORN: Just laws. ARNSON: Just laws. Laws? MAYOR DICKEY: Well, I'm amending your -- SKILLICORN: I was under the impression that was the word that was missing. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, you amended what -- you are adding this as -- your amendment is this document. So I'm amending that to say just and equal laws. GRZYBOWSKI: Why do we even need the sentence if you're going to get rid of those particular words? KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. We're removing the sentence. FRIEDEL: Yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Excuse me. GRZYBOWSKI: Well, first of all, these -- I feel kind of bad for these guys because we're just kind of talking about stuff that they don't get to see. But instead of removing the just and equitable, which we all agree that the laws needs to stay in there otherwise it's this really awkward sentence. Instead of removing those words, let's just take out that sentence that's in red and leave it as is. UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Can we get it on the screen? KALIVIANAKIS: No, I know. I wish you guys could see it. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, it's just -- KALIVIANAKIS: All my -- I would just say, we are going to work to enact and enforce laws that promote the well-being of our community. That's how it would read. And we would take out just and equitable because -- to go back to the environmental plan, that's politically charged and I don't like it. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, and to the point of not being able to see it. Normally, or what we Page 59 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES could often do would be, people would be offering amendments that you wouldn't be seeing. We would come to a meeting, you have something in front of you and you amend it. She just happened to write down her amendments. But she's speaking them. Yes, sir. SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I don't want this to go very long. But trying to be as quick and -- if we take out just and equitable, I think we have agreement here. So if we take the motion right here and it says, "Just and equitable laws". Cross out "laws" and it's just those three words, "just and equitable" that will be amended. Is there amended second? MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, just -- that's fine. KALIVIANAKIS: 6.2 which is the sponsor. SKILLICORN: Oh, yeah. And let's -- 10.6, since there's no $200 fee, let's remove the sponsor. KALIVIANAKIS: Let's remove 10.6 completely. SKILLICORN: Yeah. 10.6 completely. Sounds like there's a second. FRIEDEL: Yes. GRZYBOWSKI: I would also like to know why we're getting rid of the red verbiage in 8.2? I'm not sure I understand why we're removing it, as your elected officials, you should expect me to corroborate my statement with facts or references or something like that. And I feel like by removing this, you're saying I can just -- MAYOR DICKEY: Make stuff up? GRZYBOWSKI: Make stuff up. MAYOR DICKEY: Yep. GRZYBOWSKI: So I have a problem with removing that. I don't understand the thought process behind that. MAYOR DICKEY: Well, if you'd like to put that back in you can amend and put that back in. GRZYBOWSKI: I would like to leave the red section of 8.2 which is on page 22 and 23, Amanda. Thank you for doing that. Instead of removing it as is in our suggested Page 60 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES amendment. I would like to leave it in, because I just don't understand the removal. TOTH: Can I have a point of clarification? Are we allowed to amend motions to amend that we did not create? ARNSON: Yeah. So this is -- we're presented with two alternate versions. The one that's in the packet, the one Brenda proposed. So technically this is a main motion. Because we're asking for Brenda's. Brenda's proposing an amendment but all it is is a main motion, right? That's a misnomer. This is a main motion. So if we want to go through and talk about, like, Sharron just said a motion to amend the main motion, we can do that. TOTH: Motion? MAYOR DICKEY: The motion to amend is now -- TOTH: But the motion would be a motion to amend the amendment because Allen made the motion to amend Brenda's main motion. I'm sorry. I'm just very confused. ARNSON: What we're doing is calling, it's still the main motion. Allen accepted a friendly amendment from whoever. Whoever suggested it. And now it's all incorporated into the main motion. I'm just trying to make it real easy. MAYOR DICKEY: Right. Councilwoman Hannah, his is not an amendment. What he proposed is the motion. ARNSON: Yes. He's the motion. MAYOR DICKEY: So right now we're -- GRZYBOWSKI: What we're calling the amendment. TOTH: Now, we're talking about a motion to amend. ARNSON: The main motion, yeah. MAYOR DICKEY: And we already did twice because we removed the sponsorship thing and we put back the word, "laws". So we've already amended it twice and -- TOTH: Because that was -- MAYOR DICKEY: But we didn't vote on those, but I think everybody was okay with those. TOTH: Yeah. It was -- Page 61 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES MAYOR DICKEY: And now Sharron is trying to amend by putting back in section 8.2 as written. And do we have a second for that? MCMAHON: I'll second. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Should we vote on that? ARNSON: Vote on the amendment? Sharron's amendment? MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. MCMAHON: Leaving in the red words from 8.2 which we're all looking at right here. ARNSON: Here is the main motion's amendment. If it fails, Allen's motion stays exactly the way that he proposed it. MAYOR DICKEY: But we still are discussing it. Roll call on this amendment. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Nay. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Nay. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Nay. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Nay. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: Aye. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thanks. Aaron, should we vote on those two minor amendments that we already kind of accepted? ARNSON: It seems like everyone -- MAYOR DICKEY: Or is it okay if we don't? Page 62 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES ARNSON: -- understood. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. ARNSON: And that Allen, you acceded to those amendments and Gerry seconded it -- MAYOR DICKEY: The laws and the sponsorship. ARNSON: We seem okay. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. SKILLICORN: I just don't know if there's any other -- Councilmember Grzybowski, I'm curious if she's had more -- if she finds something. I mean, I don't want to be here all night, but if she finds something that we want to change. GRZYBOWSKI: Absolutely. I told you I have something about every one of them. Well, most every one of them. Going to 8.4. We've got on there that we're removing the section where -- the red words again, "We recognize the exercise of free speech", blah, blah, blah. Ending with, "Impact our words". Again, where I see removing this, we're suggesting that we draw a line in the sand regarding our official capacity and our personal behavior. Deleting that and deleting the two red things that are, "refrain from spreading hate and reflect on how our words", blah, blah, blah. Deleting that and those two lines, these behaviors are unacceptable from anyone, let alone an elected official who's representing the entire town, not just 25 of our best friends. Then add too, what we're going to look at, adding section 10.4 which you guys aren't going to see at all because it's in writing in front of us. The section 10.4 talks about holding you, the citizen, to a higher standard because you've made false or misleading or unsubstantiated statements. And talking about criminal prosecution. So I just -- I have a problem with that. You're deleting stuff from us as elected officials regarding false and misleading statements, but leaving it in for the general public. That it's not okay for them to do it, but it is okay for me to do it. I have a huge problem with that. I hear all the time that our elected officials do this and they should be held to a higher standard. Again, why are we making our own rules, and if it is true that we should be held to a higher standard, then why the hell are we removing the statement? Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman? Page 63 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm still figuring out how to ask my question. I'm so sorry. Speaking of Councilwoman Kalivianakis' point regarding maybe politically charged language and also the earlier point that we already have a code of ethics, I would like to strongly suggest that we take out this preamble. When we talk about, "In keeping with the town" -- actually, okay. You know what? I can loosen up on that a little bit. My only real issue with the preamble is the, "To the effective functioning of democratic government", we do not live in a democracy. We live in a constitutional republic. I know that is very anal of me, but it is truly a pet peeve of mine. We do not live in a democracy. Thank you. MCMAHON: Are we turning this to politics now? TOTH: I believe that -- MCMAHON: Aren't we nonpartisan? TOTH: -- this turned it into politics. This -- MCMAHON: I disagree with your statement. GRZYBOWSKI: For those of you keeping track at home, that's the very first red section under section 8, code of ethics. MAYOR DICKEY: Are there any further amendments? No? TOTH: Was I supposed to make that a motion? I'm sorry. MAYOR DICKEY: Are you trying to remove the preamble? TOTH: I am trying to remove -- what am I trying to remove? I am trying to remove -- KALIVIANAKIS: Democratic government. TOTH: I want to edit the language to the effective functioning of town government, of our government, however you would like to say that. I'm sorry, but it is a major pet peeve of mine. ARNSON: So just remove the word, "democratic" is that -- TOTH: Pretty much, yes. ARNSON: Okay. KALIVIANAKIS: Just remove democratic. MAYOR DICKEY: You want to remove the word, "democratic" out? Page 64 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES TOTH: Yes, ma'am. KALIVIANAKIS: If I may add? lust to recap. Just so we can get our amendment right and to my main motion. We will remove in the preamble, "democratic". We will remove the fee. We will remove 10.6 altogether. And I think Allen -- I'd still like to keep "just and equitable" out of there. But whatever you want to do. But those -- just for you, Aaron, I think that's my tally of what's on the floor right now. ARNSON: That's what I have. The only thing we haven't actually gotten to is "democratic". We still need -- I still need to know whether -- KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, we still need -- ARNSON: -- he's either going to accept it or we need it as a affirmative motion. KALIVIANAKIS: You want to make that as a -- MAYOR DICKEY: What's it going to be replaced with? ARNSON: Nothing. KALIVIANAKIS: Just government. MAYOR DICKEY: And you're removing 10.6. I'm sorry. Lets do that first. So is the "democratic" thing okay with you? SKILLICORN: I want to make sure. Okay. Well, it's also a point of clarification. I believe I already made in my motion and Councilmember Friedel seconded about the "just and equitable"? KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. SKILLICORN: Record reflect -- MAYOR DICKEY: We did vote on it. SKILLICORN: That was already removed from the -- so the only proposed amendment right now, from Councilmember Toth, is to remove the word, "democratic". We're not -- we're for democracy, but we're a democratic republic. We know that. We're -- MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible). SKILLICORN: Yeah. But we're not trying to say we don't like democracy. But -- and it's not -- but yeah, we're going to -- KALIVIANAKIS: Gerry, you agree with that? Page 65 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES SKILLICORN: -- if you're agreeable to that, remove that one word. MAYOR DICKEY: And now we're removing 10.6, which means we can't -- we are saying the public body cannot follow the same process? KALIVIANAKIS: I think certainly we can follow the same process. But this is just waiving the fee, I thought. SKILLICORN: I think 10.6 was the sponsor. Removing the sponsor. G00DWIN: 10.6 is, for members of the public body who feel that there's an ethics complaint. That's for them, that's their provision. MENDENHALL: But it says filing fee waived. So let's say a member up here wants to file a code violation against another member, they would follow that procedure, they would not be paying a fee. KALIVIANAKIS: But we've already waived the fee. GRZYBOWSKI: So you're looking at 10.2. MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. GRZYBOWSKI: Is what you're talking about. Because if we don't have a filing fee then we don't need a 10.2, right? SKILLICORN: I'll just -- MENDENHALL: 10.2, let's see. Let me make sure. SKILLICORN: And just directing to the Mayor instead of the way we should be doing it. We did get rid of 10.2 which is the $200, but that left a gap because of 10.6 it mentioned waiving. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. SKILLICORN: And currently we don't have a 10.6 and people still have the ability to file an ethics filing. So removing this does not take away anyone's right there. So I see that as moot. And I'd like to call a previous question. ARNSON: Yeah, 10.2 and 10.6 work together. So if we remove one, we should remove the other. SKILLICORN: Right. ARNSON: You said call for the question of motion, then it has to get a second, and then Page 66 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES we have to have a two-thirds vote. FRIEDEL: The second was me. ARNSON: Okay. KALIVIANAKIS: It's already seconded. MAYOR DICKEY: So we have a motion and a second. And all of those amendments and such, others excepted things. Just to clarify in myself that the 10.4 is still in existence as far as the public having to pay for the whole thing if it's found without merit? SKILLICORN: If it's frivolous, yes. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Okay. Can we have a roll call, please? MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis? KALIVIANAKIS: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon? MCMAHON: I don't know. (Indiscernible). KALIVIANAKIS: My amendment. MCMAHON: Nay. MENDENHALL: No? Councilmember Toth? TOTH: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel? FRIEDEL: Aye. MENDENHALL: Councilmember skillicorn? SKILLICORN: Yes. MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski? GRZYBOWSKI: No. MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey? MAYOR DICKEY: Nay. All right. Thank you. Our last item before future agenda is council discussion, direction to the town manager. I do have a couple of things, just calendar -wise. So we were talking about having a mini Page 67 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES retreat on November 2nd. And I'd also say that I would like to cancel the meeting on November 7th, which is election day, if that's okay. And so we'll be having the extra meeting. I know. Don't fight me on this now. Everybody's happy as can be. So well do that. And is there anything from call to the public or anything that anybody would like to comment on? Yes, sir? SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just thanking staff, thank you very much for the check register, it's very helpful. I know it's purview of manager, I'd love it be part of the packet, so that people could see it. Think about that. And then I just had -- oh, I want to check on the update of the emergency services. I know it might take time to work on that but is that coming? GOODWIN: Right now, it's scheduled for October 3rd. We're going to be working with Chief Ott to make that happen. The October 19th agenda is pretty lengthy. So keeping that in mind we wanted to -- the plan is for that date. SKILLICORN: Thank you so much. GOODWIN: Yep. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Our next item is just future agenda items. Anything else? SKILLICORN: I'll make a motion to cancel the November 7th meeting. MAYOR DICKEY: You don't have to -- TOTH: Second. MAYOR DICKEY: We did it. We're done. Any other -- KALIVIANAKIS: Me. MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, ma'am. KALIVIANAKIS: For future agenda, I'd like to put on the next agenda set for two weeks from this meeting, a revision of the invocation guidance. There has been new case law I have discovered that will clarify the previous guidance, and so it I'd request that that be placed on the next agenda. Do I need a second and a third? FRIEDEL: Second. TOTH: I'll second that. KALIVIANAKIS: A third? Allen? You said yes? MiKAT Page 68 of 69 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS SEPTEMBER 6, 2023, REGULAR MEETING MINUTES FRIEDEL: Yes. KALIVIANAKIS: Yes, okay. Thank you. MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. If there isn't anything else, we are adjourned. Page 69 of 69 Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on September 6, 2023, at 8:09 p.m. ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Vr Gi Dick y, Mayor a G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 61" day of September 2023. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present DATED this 3" Day of October 2023. da G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk