HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023.1017.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
OCTOBER 17, 2023
A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E.
Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:38 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Sharon Grzybowski;
Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Peggy McMahon;
Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis; Councilmember Hannah Toth;
Councilmember Allen Skillicorn
Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Attorney Aaron D.
Arnson; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: Approximately one hundred members of the public were present.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
OCTOBER 17, 2023, TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
Town Council Meeting Minutes
October 17, 2023
Transcription Provided By:
escribers, LLC
* *
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Sorry about the late start, but you had some
good snacks before we got started. Please stand for the pledge. And if you choose,
remain standing for the invocation.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Rev. Cathy Northrop from Community Church of the
Verde's. Hi.
NORTHROP: Hi. Will you bow your heads with me today?
Almighty God, we call upon your presence on behalf of this town council, town staff,
and others present here as participants or attendees, as well as for the town as a whole.
We do this seeking to solemnize the occasion and to bring your blessings and guidance
upon the proceedings. May you bless us all and keep us and be gracious to us. May
your face shine upon us and may we feel that this evening.
As we pray this evening, we remember that in your goodness we were born, in your
providence we've been kept to this day, and in your love revealed in Jesus Christ, you
have redeemed us for purposes unafraid. In Jesus' strong name, we pray. Amen.
ALL: Amen.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Gryzbowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon.?
MCMAHON: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
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TOTH: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Here.
MENDENHALL: Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the
agenda or under call to the public should fill out a request to comment card located in
the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of
that agenda item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into
the microphone, and state your name far the public record. Please limit your comments
to three minutes.
It is the policy of the mayor and council to not comment on items brought forth under
call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back to the council at a
future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda.
Mayor, I also would like to make an announcement. Just for those of you who are not
aware, the council decided at a previous meeting to cancel the November 7th meeting
and we've added the December 19th meeting. The schedule on the website will be
updated and we'll also put a public notice in the newspaper.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks very much.
Our first item are reports by mayor and council and town manager. I'll start with
Rachael.
GOODWIN: Great. Thanks, Mayor.
Mayor and council, I have a couple of quick updates. As many of you know, 1 spent last
week in Dallas at the National Parks and Recreation Association Conference. It is it was
their largest ever. It was almost 9,000 people from across the U.S. as well as Canada
and Mexico. But we had the chance to sit on the National Gold Medal Board. So
Fountain Hills was represented very well on that stage and is seen as an industry leader.
So it was great to be part of that.
Some other updates. We have a new staff that joined us this week here in-house. We
have Jinnett Hancock. She is our new HR specialist. She's joined us specifically to help
us with the transition of our new fire department. So she joined us.
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In other updates. We had our we had our movie in the park last week. We have our
Make a Difference Day coming up this Saturday. If you're not already aware, we have
almost 400 volunteers that are joining us. We have 38 residential projects plus 5 town
projects. So it is a very large day of service with more than 18,000 service hours
donated. So we're looking forward to that. And then a reminder that next Saturday will
be our Spooky Blast over at Four Peaks Park to celebrate our Halloween. So we're
looking forward to a lot of great events.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
GOODWIN: Thank you.
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. This Saturday, as well as Make a Difference Day. So
before or after your volunteer time, be sure to stop by the Avenue of the Fountains
because the industry stakeholders group here in town under the Chamber for Health
Services has started a health walk. It will be on the avenue of the Fountains with a few
health -focused businesses here in town. We would love to see you there.
FRIEDEL: What time?
TOTH: It -- oh, yes. It is from 9 to noon and it's going to start -- the chamber booth is at
the executive suites area of the Avenue of the Fountains. So come join us before or
after your volunteer hours, of course.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. So Rachael stole my thunder on Make a Difference Day. She also
read my notes about Spooky Blast coming up. I got to stop leaving these things on the
counter for you to read. I also wanted to remind you that our farmer's market and Art
on the Avenue start the first Wednesday in November, and it runs through April. And of
course, the Festival of Fine Arts and Crafts is the weekend of November 10th through
12th. I got my new Fountain Hills Insider in the mailbox today. You guys should be
getting yours shortly. And all those fun things will be in there. If not, probably the town
has them out here. I meant to look, but there were so many people I forgot to look
today. If not, I know the community center has the Insiders as well, and you can always
find that on the website.
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And today is my favorite day of the month. Its Stellar Student Day. After you guys get
your certificates, the mayor is going to give you permission to leave. But I'm going to
tell you, you don't want to leave. These things are super fun. I promise you. Don't
mind the adults laughing either. Congratulations, guys. Thank you.
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor.
Last week I attended the Regional Domestic Violence council meeting down in Phoenix,
and I had the pleasure of attending the post office dedication to Dr. C. T. Wright here in
town, so our post office is now named after Dr. C. T. Wright. It was a great a great
experience to be involved with that.
I want to remind everybody that we're still collecting food for the Extended Hands Food
Bank. We have a barrel out in the lobby. I didn't see anybody bring any canned goods
in tonight, so make sure you make a trip back with those. We need to help our food
pantry because they help a lot of our friends and relatives in this town. And then
recently, we also had the pleasure of attending a pro -Israel support at the Habad here in
town, just the other night. And it was quite a moving ceremony to be able to be with
those people and hear what they're going through and be there to support them.
So that's all I have. Mayor, thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you, Mayor. Good evening, everybody. I would like to invite
everybody to our Cares forum on Thursday night, 6:30 at the community center. And
we are going to be having the FBI and the Arizona Attorney General's Office educate us
on elder scams and fraud, which is really, really important. It is happening more and
more and more, and all of us need to be educated about that, especially if you're a
caretaker for elderly. So please join us. There'll be a lot of vendor tables and a lot of
really good information. So thank you. I hope to see you there.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Hello, everybody. I hope everyone's doing well tonight with our late start. And thank
you for joining us on live streaming and on Cox Channel 11. A special shout out this
week to my friends. They'll be delivering the home -delivered meals this Friday with
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Councilman Friedel. And I know you're all watching out there, so we'll be there on
Friday to see you. And a special shout out to my friend, Banana29 (ph.). I know you're
watching.
This week, earlier, as part of the military courts and public safety committee, I was
attending a Zoom forum for the council on foreign relations, which we had an update on
the Israeli-Hamas war in the Middle East. It was a very grim update and it was a very
grim briefing. It was around an hour and a half long. I did share the results with the
Mayor and the council. It's much worse than it appears in the media. This is a
generational war. The accounts of what's going on over there are shocking, and it
shocks your conscience.
Four weeks ago, I reported from this dais that I had visited the presidential library of
Ronald Reagan, where they had the Auschwitz Holocaust exhibit. And what we're
experiencing right now is nothing short of Hitler's-- an extension of Hitler's final solution
for the Jews. The covenant of Hamas, which is what's dictating this war, is a
comprehensive manifesto comprised of 36 separate articles, all of which promote the
basic Hamas goal of destroying the State of Israel through jihad and consequently killing
all the Jewish people. We have dark days ahead of us, but evil was defeated then, and it
will be defeated now.
Which brings me to Sunday, which Councilman Friedel had mentioned, where we did
attend the Arizona Stands with Israel, with the mayor, with Councilman Friedel, and
Councilman Skillicorn. This was it was called, One Hour, One People to Pray for Israel at
the Habad Center of Fountain Hills. There's a popular adage among the Jewish people,
"Think good and things will be good". This implies that our positive thoughts influence
the actual course of events and assure us that in fact the ultimate outcome will be good.
Good always triumphs over evil, we must bear that in mind.
On a more lighter note. I did attend a ribbon cutting this week for Unbridled Beauty
with our vice mayor, where she filled in for the mayor admirably, I might add. Unbridled
Beauty is a medical esthetics practice to find a more beautiful you. It's located at 13125
North La Montana Drive, and I wish them success here in Fountain Hills.
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Like Councilwoman McMahon said, we do have the Fountain Hills Cares meeting this
Thursday, and I invite one and all to attend at the community center. Bad people are
always looking for ways to con you. Help protect yourself and your loved ones by
attending this and learn how not to be a victim. A special thanks goes out to Bo Larsen,
our town's communications manager, for all the time and effort he put into this very
special program. Thank you, Bo.
The last thing is, last Friday, I attended the PICO, the Pakistani Information and Cultural
Organization dinner. PICO is a Phoenix -based nonprofit organization, and they hosted
their 20th annual SAG Dinner on Friday night at the Sheraton in Wrigleyville. PICO is a
voluntary civic organization with a purpose to serve the greater Phoenix community
since 2001. PICO has volunteered over 15,000 hours with charitable organizations in
Arizona, some of which include the St. Mary's Foodbank Project C.U.R.E., St. Vincent de
Paul. PICO also sponsors and hosts other activities, including the largest kite festival in
Arizona every March. They have hosted the kite festival here for the past 13 years.
Hosting the kite festival was the idea of former Mayor Linda Kavanagh. I attended the
event with the former mayor and her husband, the Honorable State Senator John
Kavanagh. Our keynote speaker was our Governor Katie Hobbs.
And so thank you very much for attending tonight. Thank you for -- I know we went a
little bit long tonight. Thank you for listening.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
I do want to thank staff for lighting up the fountain blue. That was meaningful,
especially considering the murderous tragedy that we saw in Israel. So thank you very
much. I think we should discuss maybe doing that in weekends in the future to honor
the Shabbat. A few of us did Sunday night join the -- it definitely is not a celebration,
but the service at the Habad. It was it was great to basically be a family with our fellow
Fountain Hills residents and be a family with our friends and neighbors in Israel.
This last week was a busy one. One of the events that I actually was able to attend was
a seminar on the future of water here in Arizona. Very informative. Also this last Friday
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I was able to visit legislative council at the Capitol. I want to definitely shout out and
thank Representative Kolodin and Representative Matt Gress for making that possible.
And one of the things that we discussed is that there's a little bit of misinformation
about property tax levy and Cave Creek's penalty levy, and it really has nothing to do
with bonds and such. It has to do with growth there and a specific property tax levy. So
give you an example, if Cave Creek passed a dozen bonds, it wouldn't affect our penalty
levy. And there's a little bit of misinformation going around town about that. And just
to clear that up, that is definitely not the case and that is incorrect usage of what the
state law is. And that's kind of what we discussed there at the legislative council.
Councilmember mentioned about good overcomes evil, so I just want to really quickly
bring up Ephesians 4:29, let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such
as is good for building up, as it lifts the occasion and it may give grace to those who
hear.
Thank you very much.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. The fountain was blue last weekend and several of us did
attend the Habad, One Hour, One People event. So that was very meaningful. We
wanted to show our support for Israel and it's fitting that we have visitors here from
other lands gathered together and recognition of our friendship and our partnerships.
Ukraine is on our minds, as are other areas that are troubled in the globe.
Some of us also attended an event -- you were there for the Fountain Hills Theater.
Longtime residents Sandy McGee and my sister Val Stasic brought award -winning live
theater to Fountain Hills 37 years ago, so it was a nice celebration.
I did have the honor to speak at the post office dedication for our friend and former
school board member Dr. C. T. Wright. Many of his family and friends were there, so it
was a very nice ceremony.
This October -- so this is Breast Cancer Awareness Month. I want to make sure that I
mentioned that. Also, as we discussed at our last meeting, October 23rd to the 31st is
Red Ribbon Week, which is the week for substance abuse prevention awareness. So it's
time. Sharron? Oh.
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FRIEDEL: Can I have one second?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Sure.
FRIEDEL: We are going to be lighting the fountain for the next several weekends in
unison with Israel. So look for that each weekend coming up for the next several
weekends as well. Thank you. Thank you, Rachael, for taking care of that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, that's okay. So we are ready for our Stellar Students and we have
additional awards for our Little Falcons; I hope they're here. We're very excited to have
the little guys here. So as usual, I'll read what the teachers said from up here. And then
as I call your name you come up, and Angela right there with the has all your certificates
and she'll hand them to you. And then you come up and stay here. And then when I
come down, we'll just take like a quick picture, but then I will immediately be presenting
some proclamations. So hopefully, you had a chance to meet the president of Fountain
Hills' sister cities, and I will say this, Mr. Wnuk, and all of our visitors who are here to
experience Arizona and Fountain Hills. So I'll be reading a proclamation and we'll have
one that will be accepted from the sister city Vice President Elizabeth. And I know her
husband is here, Honorable Consul Emeritus from Poland, the Horchems.
Then I will be presenting to Fountain Hills' vice president sister city Christine Colley for
Germany, because it's also Germany Heritage Week or Month. And last but not least,
are Fountain Hill's Chamber of Commerce. We have our CEO President Betsy LaVoie
here and I'll be presenting that. So I'm going to do all that from down there.
All of the people that are accepting these are longtime residents, leaders, advocates for
our towns, our community. They volunteer hours and days and weeks for the good of
all of us, so it's an honor to be able to present this to them. So I will start with the kids
first.
Again, Little Falcons. Our first student is Jenny Belmont. Is Jenny here? Yay. Come on
up, honey. And see that pretty lady over there? You go right to her.
"Jenny greets everyone cheerfully every morning with a loud and cute voice. She says
good morning. She's always willing to lend a helping hand and set a good example for
her peers. She demonstrates the Falcon way: being kind, responsible, safe, and
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respectful on a daily basis". Thank you, Jenny. Stay right up there, though. Okay?
Our next Little Falcon is Wesley Yanachek. Is Wesley here? All right. Come on up,
Wesley. Oh, my gosh. "Wesley is a sweet and caring Little Falcon. Wesley has a good
sense of humor and loves interacting with his peers and adults. He comes to school
with a big smile and always has a zest for learning. He demonstrates the Falcon way on
a daily basis". That's our little buddy, Wesley.
So now we're moving on to the big kids at McDowell Mountain Elementary. We are
going to start with Lily Piwinski. Is Lily here? Hi, Lily. "Lily is always a stellar student in
P.E. class. She sets a good example with her positive attitude and effort. She's very
athletic and can run very fast. She plays hard and follows the rules. She always does
her best and is a good friend to others. She is kind, respectful, and a pleasure to have in
class". Thank you, Lily.
Also from McDowell, we have Deacon Roma. Is Deacon here? Come on up, Deacon.
"Deacon is a stellar student", with a very cool hat. "He always does his best and
activities. He's very athletic and an amazing baseball player". Maybe the Diamondbacks
need you tonight. "He's always kind, respectful and willing to help others by providing
support in the activities. He works hard, plays by the rules, and demonstrates good
sportsmanship". Thank you, Deacon.
Now we move on to the middle school. Isabella Furtado. Is Isabella here? Hey, Isabella,
come on up. "Isabella is a pleasant and conscientious student who gives her all in class.
She's a quieter student and has shown the ability to think deeply about the content she
is learning". Thank you, Isabella.
Also from the middle school, we have Payton Jenkins. Is Payton here? All right. Come
on up, Payton. "Payton is a well-mannered young man and he's eager to learn and is
not afraid to ask questions. He works well with others in small groups and is able to get
his team to stay on task". Whoa. Hey, you want to switch? Just kidding. "He is a stellar
example of the Falcon way. We are proud of him". That is Payton. Thank you, Payton.
You know I'm kidding.
And next to you is Ainsley McAloon. She is playing volleyball tonight, but I'm going to
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read all the good stuff about her. "Ainsley is a humble student who doesn't realize what
an impact she makes. She's eager to not only learn, but to excel academically. She will
put in effort above and beyond what is expected, not only for the grade, although that's
very important, but in order to further her understanding. She's respectful, responsible,
self -motivated, and consistent. She is respected by her peers and is very kind". And
that's Ainsley.
Our last high school student is Jack Irwin. Is Jack here? Hi, Jack. "Jack is a dependable
and exemplary student. He strives to understand the content in his classes. Jack is
organized, incredibly kind, and respectful. He's always prepared for class and readily
participates in discussions. Additionally, Jack looks for the good in others and
encourages them to also strive for excellence. I've been impressed with his character.
Without hesitation, I'd recommend him for this award. He deserves this recognition".
Jack Irwin.
All right, guys. Get close. Take a nice picture. Look at everybody and smile. Be happy.
These little ones might need a little help. There you go.
Right. Thank you.
Okay. So we are going to start with the first proclamation, which is for Polish American
Heritage Month. And I'm going to ask Elizabeth if you will come off, please, and hold
this and I'll read some words and then ask you to say a few things, if that's okay.
I read them with the big writing here, so. Okay.
"Whereas Polish people have played an important role in American history and culture
since 1608, when the first Polish settlers arrived in Jamestown, Virginia; and
"Whereas, the military genius of War Hero Thaddeus Kosciuszko and General Casimir
Pulaski was essential in defense of our freedoms in the Revolutionary War; and
"Whereas, Polish Americans have made significant contributions to the United States in
all fields, including business, education, government, the military, and the arts; and
"Whereas, there are an estimated 8.81 million self -identified Polish Americans
representing about 2.67 percent of the U.S. population; and
"Whereas, the Town of Fountain Hills is proud of its sister city relationship with Zamosd,
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Poland, and has the strong cultural ties between our two communities which have
enriched our town in many ways. And we're very grateful for their friendship and their
partnership; and
"Whereas, the Town of Fountain Hills recognizes the importance of celebrating and
honoring the rich heritage and culture of Polish Americans. So now, therefore, I, Ginny
Dickey, Mayor of Fountain Hills, proclaim the month of October 2023 Polish American
Heritage Month and ask and urge you, all residents of Fountain Hills, to join me in
celebrating the many contributions that Polish Americans have made to our community
and our nation".
Thank you, Madam. On behalf of the Polish community, and we have quite a large
community in Fountain Hills, I want to thank you. And truly appreciate your help and
your good, good leadership. And thank you, the council. Congratulation, town
manager. And thank you for your help and your support of Fountain Hill's sister cities.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you so much.
Next, another friend that I've known for years and so appreciate her. I'll ask Christine
Colley to please come up for German -American Heritage Month.
COLLEY: Oh, thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: So "Whereas, as early as 1683, families from Germany began settling in
Pennsylvania, beginning with them a legacy of ingenuity, perseverance, and a
commitment to building a better future for themselves and for our nation; and
"WHEREAS, German American Heritage Month provides an opportunity for all citizens to
learn more about the enduring impact of German immigrants on our nation's history,
arts, sciences, and cultural traditions; and
"Whereas," I like this one, "German Americans have made significant contributions to
the social, educational, and culinary fabric of the United States, introducing cherished
traditions such as the Christmas tree and the concept of kindergarten, as well as popular
foods, including hot dogs, hamburgers, pretzels, strudel, sauerkraut, and lager beer". So
you got me at that.
"Whereas, German Americans comprise the largest self -reported ancestry group in the
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United States, accounting for approximately 49 million people, which is 17 percent of
the nation's population;
"Whereas the Town of Fountain Hills has enjoyed a meaningful and lasting relationship
with our sister city, Deardorff, Germany, fostering friendship, cultural exchange, and
mutual understanding".
"Now, therefore, I, Ginny Dickey, mayor, proclaimed the month of October as German -
American Heritage Month and encourage all citizens to learn about and celebrate the
significant contributions of German Americans to our community and our nation."
Thank you.
COLLEY: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, council. Thank you, town manager. We have a
good German population here in Fountain Hills, as you know, and celebrate Oktoberfest
one of the events that we brought to the United States. But I want to thank the
leadership of this town for the great support that we have to continue to maintain the
good relationships with our sister cities. And the help that we will be coming and asking
for our next sister city that we will do. But we have received continuous great support
and we really appreciate that. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Christine.
So to bring it all together here we have our president and CEO of the Chamber and you
have to hold up -- she wants -- Tammy?
LAVOIE: Can I bring my staff?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, of course. Come on. Come on.
LAVOIE: Chamber staff.
MAYOR DICKEY: Come on up. You guys all look great. You're all coordinated.
LAVOIE: Great.
MAYOR DICKEY: It looks like it. Wonderful. Come on up. All right. So.
"Whereas, Chambers" — no. I don't want to stay in front of you.
"Whereas, Chambers of Commerce strive to address the community's top challenges
and greatest opportunities through bold leadership and innovative problem solving; and
"Whereas, Chambers of Commerce fosters stronger, more vibrant communities by
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advocating for priorities to promote economic prosperity, boost quality of life, and
create access to meaningful employment and opportunity for all residents; and
"Whereas, Chambers of Commerce are champions of communities, serving as a trusted
resource for businesses, residents, and all stakeholders; and
"Whereas, Chambers of Commerce create catalytic community partnerships to build
resilient economies and promote community -wide prosperity; and
"Whereas, The Fountain Hills Chamber of Commerce is the largest nonprofit
organization in Fountain Hills, fully devoted to commerce; and will celebrate their 50th
anniversary in 2024 with approximately 1,000 members.
"So now, therefore, I, Ginny Dickey, Mayor, proclaim October 18th, 2023, as Support
Your Local Chamber of Commerce Day and encourage all residents to learn more about
our Fountain Hill's Chamber, its impact, and the support of our local businesses". Thank
you.
LAVOIE: Thank you so much, Mayor, Staff, Council, we so appreciate this and allowing
our staff to come up and receive this honor because it's truly a team effort, as you can
imagine. All of our board directors who are in the room, could you also please stand
because you represent this as well? Thank you.
The National Support Your Chamber of Commerce Day is from the United States
Chamber of Commerce and we, as a collective board and staff, want you to show that
support by supporting local. So dine local, shop local, experience local, worship local,
educate local; just enjoy and celebrate everything that is Fountain Hills. And thank you
so much, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: So if anybody is leaving, you can go have some dinner or do something
local. Appreciate it. Thank you, guys. Enjoy.
Thank you all. We appreciate you being here.
Our first item is a presentation that we're going to hear about an update of our capital
improvement projects. Rachael?
GOODWIN: Thank you, Mayor. We have both Justin Weldy and Kevin Snipes here to
give us an update on the closeout from last year's CIP, as well as the beginning of this
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year. If you might -- you might recall a lot of our projects -- I shouldn't say a lot of them.
Some of them hinged on the financial audit that comes in. So we're going to be talking
about that at our next council meeting. So we thought this was timely to review where
we're at and what the next steps are. So with that, I will turn it over. Who's kicking us
off?
SNIPES: I'll kick it off.
GOODWIN: Awesome.
SNIPES: Mayor, council, good evening. Here to talk about our capital improvement
projects and give you an update here. So I'll kick it off with the ones that are going on in
the parks and rec world. So these are all the ones that were originally approved, and so
just the progress of them. The Golden Eagle Park field lighting project is complete. We
did come in a little under 20,000 under what we thought we were going to be at. And
we've gotten lots of compliments already on the difference it makes in that area. We
had one complaint when we first put them up and went out the next night and made
some adjustments while talking to him on the phone. And he asked me if we shut the
lights off because it made that much of a difference at his house. So just shows how
good that the lights out there are and the difference it can make.
The next one here is Desert Vista Park, multiyear improvement. So far this year, we
have put up the shade structure that was donated to us. And did the concrete
underneath it a week ago. So it is now ready for the next phase of that project, which is
putting in the fitness equipment. So you'll probably be seeing me back here shortly,
discussing that and showing you what we're looking at doing for that.
The other picture there is of the ramada by the playground. It was one of our-- it was
the only playground that we had that didn't have a ramada next to it. And now it has a
ramada and a nice big concrete pad underneath it. The picnic tables are ordered and on
their way. But as you can see, we still have a lot more work that's going to happen at
Desert Vista this year.
The Fountain Park, Panorama hillside erosion control. That's still in the planning and
design phase. We'll be looking at making some advances on that shortly. But right now
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we're still just trying to figure out exactly what the best way is to tackle this project.
The next one here is not a capital improvement project, but it is a grant that we were
told that we could go for -- two years ago now. And we were awarded the grant. So it's
a $500,000 grant in total. One grant paid for the matching, and then we had to come up
with 11,000 to get 500,000. So this was a really exciting grant that we were awarded.
We're really excited about it. And what that means for the town is that we'll be putting
a restroom over at Four Peaks Park. There you can see in the dark blue square. It'll be
next to the 5-to 12-year-old playground. It will have four stalls. And there's some
renderings of what it's going to look like. And then we also have a storage room
attached to the end of it, which we desperately needed at that park. So this is going to
be a win -win all the way around. We're really excited to get this put in. It will be a — it's
a prefab model, so it'll come in on a trailer and be dropped into place. So you won't see
anything for nine months and then all of a sudden there'll be a restroom. So it will be
very exciting. It's the one complaint that we get about Four Peaks is there's not a
restroom on that side of the bridge. So this solves that problem and we're really excited
to bring this in.
So the next one here, this is one where we were waiting until you guys returned to start
this project. We're going to be planting trees during Make a Difference Day over there,
this Saturday. So we're excited to get that done. This is the project that we're looking
at doing 100 puzzle piece donation plaque that you can see there. That will help with
the funding of this project. And then there'll be other landscaping, as well as moving
around some artwork and redoing the Five Cs over there, to make it so those are legible
again. So we're really excited about this project as well.
This next one was one that was on the budget, that we were waiting on our funding to
come in, which we'll be talking about in November. So we'll be coming back to you with
this project. I've been working with a couple of different groups, getting some
renderings and some pricing to where we are ready. Moving with this project, I would
like to make sure that we do our best to get it done before the splash pad opens, so that
we're not mixing construction and five -year -olds running around tractors. So that's our
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main goal with this, that we're looking at about 21 picnic tables adding to the area,
which will be fantastic. We're working with the Plaza Fountain site group to meet up
with the business owners over there. As soon as we get that meeting scheduled, we'll
be showing them some renderings as well and make sure that we're all on the same
page. So with that, I'll hand it over to Justin.
WELDY: Madam Mayor -- excuse me. Councilmembers. This is just a brief update for
the capital for the public works department. All of these started with the budget, which
was July the 1st. This is actually a two-year project that was primarily paid for with
grant funding. However, we finished it in this budget year. There was a little bit of
work. For a reminder, this is down on Grande in the northeast corner of town. And this
one, the home on the right and a little bit of the home on the left or primarily the
homes on the bottom were flooded because this channel was not well maintained and
very narrow. This is a grant that we got from the Maricopa County Flood Control
District.
This one right here is very similar. In this particular case, two homes were badly
flooded. Again, this started last year with grant from the Flood Control District. We
were able to finish it up this year. We are excited about both of these projects and look
forward to working with the Flood Control on future grants.
This is a restroom facility that is approved as part of this year's capital budget to go on
the Avenue. It's important to note that we are still in the preliminary on this in regards
to the location, the size, and different types of design and final cost.
This right here is directly related to facilities. This is in the capital as $110,000. We are
currently working to determine if we can get something that is as efficient and effective
for less, or if there's a possibility that they may be able to do some reworking or
rebuilding on this one. We're working to do our best to arrive at a better price and a
longer lifespan.
For those of you not aware, the Shea Boulevard widening is a multiyear, I should say
multidecade at this time, because it started a considerable amount of time back. This is
the portion that will be widened east side between Palisades and Fountain Hills
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Boulevard. We expect that this project will remain within the budget. And as a
reminder, this project is a reimbursement from the Prop 400 money that we get
through MAG. This is the $3 million sidewalk that runs along both sides of Saguaro from
Colony to Fountain Hills Boulevard, and on the north side of Palisades, from Saguaro to
Fountain Hills Boulevard. The town's match for this is right now at $357,000 but the
total project cost is about 3.5. And we're hoping that when the bids open that there are
some eager contractors ready to come out and get to start later this fall or early next
calendar year on this one.
This project right here was the Fountain Hills Boulevard and Palisades Boulevard
intersection improvements. This one was canceled by the council.
This one right here is Palisades and La Montana. This is the intersection analysis. This
one is currently in process. We have encumbered $49,000 for this year for the analysis.
This is the bridge repair. And let me give you a little background on that. So every four
years, ADOT, free of charge, comes out and inspects all the town's bridges. And there's
different types of bridges, including the one in this photo, which we refer to as a
concrete box culvert. As you'll see in this one, we have an incredible amount of erosion.
That is referred to technically as head cutting. And what's happening here — and this is
on the downstream side, is it eventually will expose the critical structure of that bridge
and the bridge would become in jeopardy. So we are using this money to shore not only
this one up, which is at Cholula Wash -- excuse me, Zapata, but we are also working on
one north of this at Cholula.
Now were up to the community services, and this is the stuff that we'll be starting after
our pre -retreat -- is how we're going to describe it? This one right here is Panorama.
This is a multiyear project. The last phase of this one right here is actually going to be to
install the new electrical and the new pumps that allow us to recover more of this
surface water and move it back to Fountain Lake.
This is an ongoing multiyear project. Just a little heads up, staff will be returning to the
mayor and council later this calendar year or possibly early next calendar year and
asking for some additional funding to accelerate the next phase, in regards to the
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architectural and engineering firm that helped us with the current phase underway. As
a reminder, going a little bit back, this is the area that was formerly prone to flooding on
the west side of the building adjacent to the O'Flynn room. It's under construction right
now and very soon will be completed and will be an asset and a benefit, not only in the
form of additional storage for the community center, which is badly needed, but also a
covered patio for the residents to enjoy when the weather is nice out.
These are our fire alarm panel replacements. We're facing some challenges with this
one right now, primarily due to proprietary equipment that is creating some challenges.
And so we don't have this moving forward yet but we're currently working on it.
This is an old photo that I should have changed. But this is our -- every year we ask the
council for funding to do sidewalk infill and design. This is one that we did last year.
This year we are going to be within the budget and we're going to accomplish an
incredible amount. But it's in the north part of town and we'll share those locations
with you as part of the retreat and when we do our next update.
This one everybody is familiar with. This is the final design for the traffic signal at
Palisades Boulevard and Eagle Ridge. This one will be completed on budget, which you
see is just under $35,000.
These projects right here are actually what was approved as part of the budget in
regards to waiting. And the intent was to see where the revenue was as we approach
the end of the calendar year. These will start after we meet in November and
December. You'll see the park sidewalk replacement, which is $100,000 to replace
sidewalks there. We also have some additional work in Fountain Park. Public Works has
the Golden Eagle impoundment; town -wide storm drain infrastructure; low flow
roadway drainage crossing improvements, that's primarily a grant; town hall campus
exterior lighting and electrical upgrades; community center interior lighting; the
Maricopa County Sheriff's Office locker rooms' renovation, and the Saguaro and
Kingstree intersection drainage. And I'm going to stop right there for just a minute. And
I owe the town manager an apology on this.
We discovered in last year's budget for one of our projects related to drainage that we
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had unspent funding and an opportunity with two of our contractors to address an
ongoing issue at Saguaro and Kingstree. I spoke to the town manager at that time and
explained what we could do and when we could do it, and she agreed after I explained
that with one caveat. She asked me to please send her an email and an update when
the project was completed so she could share it with council. And I simply failed to do
that. And I was looking at it right now, remembered that she asked me to do that.
The good news is over 60 percent of the project was completed last year with funding
we had last year. And we anticipate that we'll be able to accomplish the next phase of
it, which is on the opposite side of the road, for less than the budgeted amount.
A lot of information. If you have any questions, Kevin, I will do our best to answer them.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Questions or comments for either of our presenters?
Yes, Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I'll go first. It's really exciting to see these
projects go from the retreat to the capital improvement budget, to fruition and
completion. I have to admit, it's fun. It's great. Thank you for all your hard work.
A couple of things I have. The splash pad renovation project that you talked about,
Kevin. I know Rachael, we were talking with a property owner about repairing the
sidewalk. Is there an update on the sidewalk?
SNIPES: Yes. So there's Mayor and Councilmember, I have talked to the property owner
as well as a contractor that's been working with them. And so what we're trying to do is
combine those two projects as best we can to where that contractor can use the town's
property to make it easier for him to complete their project, as well as work our project
from one end to the other as he's doing their project. So best -case scenario, that's what
our hope is, is to do it all at once. And I know that they are moving in that direction as
well.
KALIVIANAKIS: And we're getting cooperation?
SNIPES: Uh-huh.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Good. The other one is the downtown restroom that we had the
picture of, with the blue doors. Can we get grant funding for that like we did with the
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park, or can we pay for that with development fees?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember. So there is a downtown fund that we could
possibly use, and Mr. Pock would be the appropriate person to provide that
explanation. We will certainly look at grants. But historically, for this type of
application, no. It's a different situation when obviously you're meeting the needs of a
park.
KALIVIANAKIS: Right. And just as a side note, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. But I
know we had discussed putting a two -stall downtown bathroom. It was like an open
stall with an open bottom, open air top. I don't think that would be appropriate for
Fountain Hills. I think that we should -- if we're going to do it, I think we should spend
the money and we should put a proper facility in there that our town can be proud of. I
just took a trip to California and I specifically was looking at bathrooms and areas.
That's how I spend my time now taking vacations and looking at toilets. And all the nice
towns in California, they had restroom facilities that were clean, had nice toilets,
mirrors, presentable. And I just think if we're going to do it, let's just do it right. So
maybe I'm getting ahead of myself.
And then the last thing I'd like to address is the Palisades and the La Montana project
that we're doing. Is that just in the design study right now, or where are we with that?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, the Palisades and La Montana?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yes.
WELDY: That is an intersection analysis. What they're going to do is they're going to
look at the geometry of the intersection and the vehicle counts, turning movement, the
crash data and make a recommendation on what would best be suited for that
intersection. And I'm glad you ask a question about that. It's important to note that
that project came forward as a result of not only some of the councilmembers that are
here with us tonight, but previous councilmembers receiving emails and phone calls,
none of them complimentary in nature, describing their frustration with that
intersection. So that that project is a past and current council -driven project.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Good. Because if I could offer just a personal testimonial. I can't
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tell you how many times I've seen cars just blow right through that stop sign. And it's
obvious they're not doing it intentionally. They just don't see the stop sign. But that is
what we call in the business, an accident waiting to happen. And so the sooner we can
get on that, the better. Thank you, guys.
WELDY: You're welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
FRIEDEL: Two questions. Kevin, that $500,000 grant that we got. Who was that
through?
SNIPES: It was through two different organizations, the State Parks and the --
GOODWIN: I think it's the Heritage Fund.
FRIEDEL: Heritage Fund? Okay. Thank you. And then the trees that are along that
sidewalk by the splash pad, is that going to be part of the project to get rid of those? I
know they're buckling up some of those sidewalks. Is that still in the works?
SNIPES: Yeah. That's all part of -- when we go in there to redo that, we'll be redoing
landscaping, we'll be redoing the trees, getting those trees out, bringing in trees that
should be there. Yeah, it was -- part of our conversation with the property owner was
that it doesn't make any sense for them to do the work and the tree continue to buckle
their sidewalks. It was trees that were put in by the developer when they developed
that property. But it's on our property. So in combination with that and it's wrong tree,
wrong location. So we'll be taking care of that as well.
FRIEDEL: Good. Thank you.
SNIPES: Uh-huh.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything else? I just wanted to thank you for obviously getting the $2
million -plus for the sidewalks. That's mostly MAG money or -- yeah. And then obviously
the restroom. And when we talk about the Avenue of the Fountains restroom, I know
there's been a lot of discussion about where and when and you know, maybe not so
much of a money issue, but other things. So if there's anything we can do to help that
along, whatever the issues are, because I hear a lot of different things, please let us
know. Because I would really like to see that happen. And I think we budgeted for it
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and we all kind of agree that we would like that. So if there's somebody we can talk to
or something we can do, in order to do that.
And then last, just about the Avenue of the Fountains Palisades, we will be taking care
of those ADA issues. Because regardless of the fact that the council doesn't want to do
the whole intersection, we must and will. And I'm not saying this, telling you it, I know
that you've already said that you will take care of those.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, a point of clarification. Are we discussing Fountain Hills
Boulevard and Palisades?
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, what did I say?
WELDY: Avenue of the Fountains.
MAYOR DICKEY: Fountains Boulevard?
WELDY: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Safeway.
WELDY: We are currently working on three of the corners. We've already met with our
contractor. Surveyor will be out there. We'll bring some stuff back to the council in the
next couple of months.
MAYOR DICKEY: Perfect. Thank you. Thanks very much for all your work.
Our next item is call to the public. Do we have speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. First is Pam Cap and on deck is Lori Troller.
CAP: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Councilmembers --
MAYOR DICKEY: Hi.
CAP: -- and my fellow neighbors of Fountain Hills. My name is Pam Cap. I've lived here
for seven years. I've been following and paying attention to councilmembers who
promote Fountain Hills in a positive light. I recognize most of you are invested in making
Fountain Hills better. Whether you grew up here, you're raising your family, you have a
business, or it's your dedication to public service and making things better for every
resident in Fountain Hills, despite party affiliation. I see how you want to make our
community better. I respect that, and I thank you for that.
So imagine my shock and disgust on Sunday when I read an article titled, "'Woke' and
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'Sexual' Books Found in Second Grade Classroom Library in Fountain Hills". This was
published by a source out of Tennessee, of all places. And the person quoted in the
article is Councilmember Skillicorn. He states that over ten books were found in the
second and third grade classroom libraries by an anonymous parent. Skillicorn stated
that the books contain woke and sexualized topics, and the books were used for
grooming and indoctrination. No one from the school was quoted in the article.
One of the books in particular that caught my eye is this book. It's called "Just Ask: Be
Different, Be Brave, Be You". It's written by a United States Supreme Court Justice Sonia
Sotomayor. Oh, sorry. Anyway, this particular book is about including people that are
different. Justice Sotomayor uses flowers to demonstrate how kids are different. And
differences like Sonia, who was born with juvenile diabetes. Rafael (ph.), who was born
with asthma. Anthony (ph.) is in a wheelchair. Madison (ph.) is blind. Bianca (ph.) is
dyslexic. Jordan (ph.) and Tina (ph.) are on the autism spectrum. One is verbal. The
other is nonverbal. Nolan (ph.) is allergic to peanuts.
I've gone cover to cover, word for word, nothing about sexual identity or gender
identity. No hot button topics are mentioned. It's obvious Councilmember Skillicorn
never read this book. The author is one of our country's top experts on our Constitution
and our justice system. This is a clear example of Councilmember Skillicorn actually
trying to pluck others' rights away without doing his due diligence again. Skillicorn's
negative attention on Fountain Hills is inspiring negative attacks on local businesses.
Atticus Books, a local family -owned bookstore, is being attacked for being "woke".
I ask this council to consider censuring Councilmember Skillicorn, or at the very least
admonishing him for making Fountain Hills look in a negative light. Bring us together --
MAYOR DICKEY: We're out of time --
CAP: -- bring everybody together --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- ma'am. I'm sorry.
CAP: — and make this community safe for everyone. That's all I ask of you.
MAYOR DICKEY: We're out of time. Thank you.
CAP: If you need any advice on inclusivity, it's right here.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Ma'am. Thank you. We've --
CAP: Thank you. And vote for the bond.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- run out of time. Would you like to respond?
SKILLICORN: No.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
TROLLER: Good evening Mayor, Council, Linda, Rachael, Aaron. Lori Troller, resident.
Before I get started, I just want to say I'm thankful to be part of a peaceful community in
light of what's going on in Ukraine and Israel. And I just want to take a moment of
silence for all the lives lost in these battles.
My topic tonight is broadband 5G, not to be confused with the cellular data service, 5G,
and specifically the moratorium. So to recap, what the moratorium is, is a brief pause in
time, which gives the town a chance to update the broadband ordinance without having
to juggle the incoming broadband applications at the same time. So the moratorium
was written as a resolution, not an ordinance. And for those not familiar with some of
the differences between the resolution and ordinance, I relied on staff and town
manager for an explanation. So in interest of time, I'll paraphrase.
A resolution is a temporary measure that, when not followed, does not result in civil or
criminal penalties. So that's to say if staff approved an application right now, there
would be no penalties for doing so.
So the moratorium is certainly a temporary measure, but it's also intentionally never
signed by the mayor. So if the staff were to receive a broadband application, then
reference the resolution that doesn't carry civil or criminal penalties, then ask guidance
from the mayor, who obviously doesn't support the protections the resolution provides,
and the town attorney, who has directly stated on public record that the resolution
doesn't have any teeth, it warrants the conversion of the resolution to an ordinance to
codify it in the municipal code to assure the intention of the resolution is followed.
So this will serve as goodwill to assure the members of the council that have supported
the resolution and to the community members that the assumed protection wouldn't be
threatened by a mayor's guidance of nonsignature.
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So it's my request for a future business agenda item to be considered for the next
council meeting to convert the resolution to an ordinance for codification to the
municipal code. Thanks.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think so.
FRIEDEL: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: He could ask a question, right?
FRIEDEL: Can I ask a question?
ARNSON: Sure.
FRIEDEL: Why wasn't the resolution signed? And does that affect what we're doing
here?
ARNSON: No. The signatures are formalities, first of all, on resolutions and such. So
whether it's signed or not, it really doesn't -- the council voted for it, at the end of the
day. With respect to -- I will reiterate the point that I made earlier. The signature is
particularly irrelevant in this instance because the moratorium is of no legal force or
effect. Whether it goes in an ordinance, whether it goes in a resolution, it doesn't really
matter what form it takes, the point is, is that we are precluded by federal regulation
from enforcing any moratorium. So it's really a non sequitur, at least from a legal
perspective.
FRIEDEL: So if that's the case, would we be better off, then, not having that part of our
ordinance?
ARNSON: It makes no material difference at all.
FRIEDEL: No?
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next, we have Rick Watts, and on deck, Kim Bartman.
WATTS: Mayor, council. Rick Watts, Fountain Hills resident. This is one of those issues
that just won't go away. This is the burr under the saddle, as you kind of refer to it. And
it's the dumping or storage of materials in the washes, and it's happening in several
different washes across town. So in the spirit of my trying to do my due diligence, I
went down, I looked at the signs that say clearly, "No dumping". I collected the
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information about the Arizona Revised Statutes. I read the Arizona Revised Statutes,
both of them in detail. And sure enough, it says, "No dumping". And there are actually
even criminal penalties, misdemeanors, and there's one as aggressive as felonies. So
then I said, okay, how can the town do this? Whether or not it's storage or dumping,
how can they mess up the views of the residents that are looking at the washes? So I
went and talked to MCSO and I said to MCSO, can the town ignore Arizona Revised
Statutes? MCSO look dumbfounded, and they said, no. I said, okay. That's two.
Then I went to our own ordinances and I looked at 9-3 and 10-3. And 10-3 is very
specific, as well as 9-3, that says no dumping, period. And if you store anything there, it
has to be for a 24-hour period and it has to be containerized. I said, okay. Well, I think
we're in breach of that.
But in the spirit of trying to find a legitimate solution, I said, where could we put this
material? And where we could put the material is actually on Falcon Drive in the streets
department. I was there the other day. I've been there twice, looking at the storage
facility and the capacity, and there's ample room to take the volumetric area of the
boulders and the millings and everything else that is now being stored in Sycamore.
There's plenty of room to put it there, so why don't we?
I do commend the staff for finding creative ways to save money and reutilizing the
materials, but not at the expense of the residents. Those were parks. They're supposed
to be protected. Our own ordinances state they're supposed to be protected and not
influenced. They're not supposed to influence water flows. So I asked the town to look
again and see if there isn't a way that we can utilize the streets department and its
ample, more than ample, areas to store that material. Thank you.
BARTMAN: Hello, Mayor and council. Kim Bartman, longtime resident Fountain Hills,
have a Fountain Hills High School senior who's been in the District since kindergarten.
And I'm happy to be here to speak to you. A few things that are mentioned about good
overcomes evil and that there's scammers out there trying to scam you. And then with
Councilmember Skillicorn mentioning in Ephesians 4:29, here's the Message version. It's
a different version. I think yours was the King James version. "Watch the way you talk.
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Let nothing foul or dirty come out of your mouth. Say only what helps, each word is a
gift." I encourage you, Councilmember Skillicorn, to think of this when you post things
on your social media, when you block constituents, and when you share thing across our
country with negative things about Fountain Hills, dividing our community with this talk
of woke schools, with you posting a meme with an LGBTQ transgender flag in a
classroom, that's just a meme. And then you say, people should homeschool. That is
not supporting our largest employer in Fountain Hills and the community and our
children. And I'm really sad that you are breaking this community apart because you're
bringing up vaccines tonight. Masks and vaccines. You're talking about wake schools.
Well, you know what? The school bond is up for vote. And there are so many people
from all different walks of life, different political backgrounds, who are voting yes for
our schools, yay for public schools, yay for our community. I support all of you that
support our schools and bringing our community together and not dividing us between
political groups. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: No applause.
MENDENHALL: And then our last speaker for public comment is Mathew Corrigan.
CORRIGAN: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. Mathew Corrigan,
Homeowner, full-time resident Fountain Hills. On Sunday, August 7th, one day, the day
actually, of a Jewish holiday. Hamas terrorists from the Gaza Strip launched a massively
armed, brutal, and unprovoked invasion attack of thousands of Hamas terrorists, as they
murdered unarmed Israeli citizens, raping, torturing, decapitating, and murdering some
1,300 Israelis and 31 Americans. Hundreds are also being held captive as we speak, as
hostages. Should we be shocked that Black Lives Matter-- Chicago and Black Lives
Matter Global Network applauded the murders. In a May 27th, 2021, Heritage
Foundation article, writer Mike Gonzales explains three gut -wrenching facts:
"1. The main BLM group, the Black Lives Matter Global Network Foundation, supports a
primary objective of Hamas: the annihilation of the Jewish state. 2. Anyone who has
studied BLM will know that its animus is against Western culture, which it wants to
dismantle. 3. The reasons BLM takes the side of Hamas may have little to do with
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postcolonialism, and much more to do with its desire to bring down the U.S. and the
entire West."
As freedom loving Americans, we should always expose and condemn terrorism and
anyone or any organization that supports and praises terrorism, whether here at home
in the U.S. or abroad. So what can we do? We can support Congressman David
Schweikerts, H.R. 5932 Fortify Israel Act, authorizing $6 billion in now unfrozen assets
that would have gone to Iran, to go to Israel. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I think that's the last card, right? All right.
Our next item is consent agenda. Can I get a motion, please?
GRZYBOWSKI: Move to approve.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Our first regular agenda item is a public hearing. And we are considering changes in the
sign ordinance. As always, we will start with a presentation, then we'll take comment
cards from the public. And I will not be entertaining motions at the beginning of our
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discussion because of the complexity of it. So what I think we'll do after we hear from
the public, we'll discuss among ourselves so that we can get a good feel for what we
want to do. And we're not trying to amend and undo a bunch of motions and stuff like
that. So thank you.
Hi, John.
WESLEY: Mayor and Council, good evening. I've been looking forward to this
opportunity. So hopefully we can move through this in a clear way and get your take on
what's been recommended by the planning and zoning Commission and staff this
evening. So again, for those who might not be aware, the council directed staff to
review the current code, to consider various revisions that suggestions were made to
staff on some of those revisions back at a meeting of the council in February.
Primary goal that we received or understood from council was to better meet the needs
of businesses in the community for signage. Planning and zoning commission reviewed
possible modifications over a series of four meetings, and this goal of staff has been to
draft a code that meets the direction of the council and the P&Z commission, and that is
legally enforceable and understandable.
So as a brief overview and reminder, regulations in the code are based on sign types. So
A -frames, building wall, monument, those types of sign types. Also based on regulating
size, location, material, number, time. We cannot regulate the message contained on
the sign. So -- which is one of the things that kind of complicates things based on the
Reed decision by the Supreme Court a few years ago. And so there are multiple signage
options for both permanent and temporary signs.
So what I'm going to do first this evening is just go through reviewing what the
ordinance does allow for the different types of situations we have. And where there
have been changes, that's in green, so we kind of can clearly see where those are. This
isn't the detail of the code. We can go there as we need to, but I just want to make sure
the council and the public understands what options are available and where the basic
changes are.
So we talk about permanent signage for commercial and industrial uses and zoning.
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Awning signs are a possibility. Building wall signs, if you have a drive-thru, drive-thru
signs are available. And I want to remind the council too that there are no aggregate
maximums. We used to in a former code limit the total amount of the permit signage.
We don't do that anymore. So any combination of these are possible. You can have a
freestanding fence or wall sign. We have a hanging and under canopy sign, a monument
sign, directional signs, projecting signs, window signs. There were no changes to the
permanent sign requirements in the code or regulations in the code as it's coming to
you for consideration this evening. Are there any comments or questions about the
permanent signage available for commercial industrial development?
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you. I have a question about the signs that hang-- that's just
hanging down. The hanging under canopy?
WESLEY: Yes.
MCMAHON: Those are just for commercial, correct?
WESLEY: Correct.
MCMAHON: Okay. They're not for, like, porches or any residential uses or anything like
that?
WESLEY: Correct.
MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you.
WESLEY: So if we go then to temporary sign allowances for commercial and industrial.
So A -frame, T-frame. One change has been to instead of just one sign for business, is
one per entry with a maximum of two. The first sign at six square feet, three feet tall. If
you have that second sign, the maximum aggregate sign area in that case would be nine
square feet. Allowed in the right-of-way adjacent to commercial, including Shea. So
that was a change because currently the code would not allow them in the right-of-way
except in the town center area and then not allowed on the sidewalk, except in the
town center area. And then for those in the right-of-way elsewhere, would sunrise to
sunset. So they couldn't just stay out overnight. They would have to be brought in each
day.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN RILLS
OCTOBER 17, 2023, TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
With regard then -- another option is balloons, 24 inch maximum diameter on the
balloons. One change there, as we discussed it with the planning and zoning
commission, it wasn't really clear. The height that was in there said six feet. We didn't
know if that was the top of the balloon or the bottom of the balloon. And we also
considered the idea of the possibility of the balloon blocking the site visibility. And so
we clarified that with ten foot to the top of the balloon.
Banner signs. So 32 square feet, one per occupancy. The discussion on this one that the
council had was the limited time frame currently in the code at 30 days per year, feeling
that many businesses needed more time than that. And so after reviewing various
options, what's being proposed is a maximum of 150 days out of a year, 30 days at a
time. So a business could decide how they want to spread that out over the course of a
year. And then also for a new business that may not want to go to the expense of
permanent signage, allowing a banner sign to be up for a maximum of a year. But the
possibility that could be switched out a little bit during that year, both to take care of
any maintenance issues when it starts to get frayed. It could be changed out or if they
would want to move from a grand opening to a more permanent type of, but still
banner, temporary sign.
MAYOR DICKEY: John, are you going to get to an end of this and then ask if there's
questions --
WESLEY: So I do have --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- at the end of the section?
WESLEY: -- that at the end. But if the council would like to go ahead, Mayor, I'll have
you go and do it, if you want to discuss it --
MAYOR DICKEY: Just --
WESLEY: -- as we go over each of these, that's fine too.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Yeah, well, I do for the one before, but just before I forget. So
the banners can have anything written on them?
WESLEY: That's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anything at all?
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WESLEY: Right. And the one question that was not -- as I finished this up with the
planning and zoning commission and started working on the council, I realized one thing
we never discussed with the planning and zoning commission, with that one-year
allowance for a banner for a new business, does that still apply if they put up the
permanent sign? And so that's -- right now is just a blanket allowance for that banner
sign regardless. But I thought maybe the council would want to consider that. And if
they put up a permanent sign, does that then negate the allowance for the banner sign
for a full year? So would you like to go back, Mayor, to the previous one or how would
you like to proceed?
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, the previous one has to do with the zoning on Shea because the
way that you -- it says they're in the right-of-way adjacent to commercial, including
Shea. But in the resolution or whatever it says all commercial and industrial zoned areas
and in the right-of-way adjoining these zoning districts. So is it zoning that's -- other
zones that are adjoining zoning business zoning districts? I mean, it feels like you're
basically allowing it all along Shea. Not you, but it feels like it's allowing them along
Shea.
WESLEY: So yes, it would allow them along Shea. Commercial portions of Shea, but not
all of Shea.
MAYOR DICKEY: And anything that's a multiuse that has commercial use in it, then we
could have signs along Shea? If we had something that was a multiuse that had
residential and commercial, they'd be able to put a sign along Shea? I'm trying to figure
out what's happening to Shea, right?
WESLEY: Right. Let's see. Remember -- whoops, let me go up one.
MAYOR DICKEY: It's like E, Roman or three tiny Is. Three --
WESLEY: Yeah. Here we go.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- there's no page numbers on. I printed this out, unfortunately.
WESLEY: Right. So all commercial and industrially zoned areas. So they'd have to have
the commercial zone. If that commercial zone is there and also been allowed to have
multi -residences as a part of it, then yes.
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MAYOR DICKEY: All right. So it's -- okay. Thank you.
Councilwoman? Vice mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: I'm a little worried about how many signs that means that we're going to
have up and down Shea. We get complaints right now with the bond issue and limited
permissions. So there's -- and I don't just mean Shea, I kind of mean everybody,
everywhere. But the real reason why I pressed the button was the banner switch out
conversation that you switched to. Sorry to move you back forward again, but you said
that the new business can have a banner for a year. It can be switched out if it's frayed
or whatever. When you say, "must be maintained", we're saying if it is frayed, we
expect replacement.
WESLEY: Correct.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. All right. That's what I was really pressing the button for. Thank
you.
WESLEY: Yes. There are maintenance provisions in the ordinance, Vice Mayor, that
would apply. So if it does become frayed or is falling apart in some way, then we could
use the code and say, well, you've got to take it down or replace it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Could you go back to the last slide? There we go. We're getting A -frame, T-frame signs.
The previous code just allowed one per business. Correct?
WESLEY: Correct.
KALIVIANAKIS: And now we're allowing two?
WESLEY: Right.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. No, I thought in discussion that we had talked about allowing two
if there were two distinct points of access and egress.
WESLEY: Correct.
KALIVIANAKIS: Do you address that?
WESLEY: Yes. Yeah. It's two, one per--
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. So it's coming?
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WESLEY: Yeah, it's in here. Yes.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. I just want to make sure we're on the same page. Okay. Because
that was important. And then as far as the signage on Shea, would the business be
allowed to put A -frame, T-frame sign on Shea, if they own the property? Or would
anybody that owns a business be able to put an A -frame, T-frame sign on Shea? So like,
say you've got a business that's a mile away down the street but they want to promote
it, could they just put that on the right-of-way?
WESLEY: Yes.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
MCMAHON: Oh, I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, you can.
MCMAHON: Sorry. I thought it said adjacent to the commercial property?
WESLEY: Right. It's adjacent to commercial property. It doesn't mean it's adjacent to
their commercial property.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
MCMAHON: Right.
WESLEY: Once we say an A -frame is allowed in the right-of-way, it basically opens up to
anybody to put an A -frame at that location because we're regulating the size, number,
and location of the signs, not the content on it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. And it can say anything?
MCMAHON: Well, I'm not questioning what it says. I'm just questioning the concern
about the number that is going to be lining on Shea for businesses that may or may not
be on Shea. And I just thought that it had to be adjacent to the business.
The proliferation of these signs, it's just going to be outrageous, I think. But we can
discuss that as we delve into the ordinance. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. And just one more point, Ms. Mayor, that you made about the
signs can say anything. Would that be because we can't regulate the content?
WESLEY: Correct.
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KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
WESLEY: Moving forward, do you want to discuss this at this point, Mayor, whether if
they get their permit sign, can they still have the banner sign or is that --
MAYOR DICKEY: So what you were saying is -- so say they have a permanent sign, but
they want to say, "new buffet" for this month or something, then that would be a
banner. So it's probably okay to have a banner and a permanent sign if it's something
like that. I don't like the 150 days a year, I'll tell you the truth. I think that's a lot. I'd
rather have it be -- well, again, we can't say what it can say, so it can say anything it
wants. So but as far as permanent versus having the banner --
WESLEY: Mayor, let me explain that again just a little bit more. Because certainly any
business with a permanent sign can have the banners, that's the 150 days, 30 days at a
time. So the question is, on that allowance for the one year, basically. For a new
business, they get a new business license. We allow them to put up a banner for one
year so they don't have to go to the expense of the permanent sign. If they do put up
the permanent sign in that case, is their one year over? Can they still have that one-
year banner? That's different than the 150 days.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, you're saying that they would be using the banner instead of a
permanent, and then when they get the permanent --
WESLEY: That's what it's there for. That was the idea, but we didn't make that clear in
the code. So that's why I'm having to ask. We didn't discuss it at P&Z. So I'm having --
MAYOR DICKEY: Because I thought the banner -- sorry to have this back and forth. But I
thought the banner was a -- like this, "first -one -free thing" not like "Joe's bar", but that
the banner was for something special.
Councilwoman? Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: The new business banner for the first year, if they don't have a
permanent sign, makes sense to me. Once you get a permanent sign, you lose the
ability, in my opinion, to then also have the banner.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Just to clarify, it would be if they have a permanent sign, they don't get the
wame
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banner for a full year, but they can still do a banner for 150 days a year?
WESLEY: Right.
TOTH: Okay. Just super-duper checking. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: For new businesses when they come into town, is there a time frame when
they need to have a permanent sign on the building? Especially, like, if it's they rent or
lease a place, the old sign's been taken down, it looks awful. Are we requiring any time
frame for them to put up a sign? And if not, why not?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, no, that's totally up to the business and what they
feel like their businesses need is for signage. Some get signs up early, even before the
business opens. Others wait, want to see how they're doing, maybe have a little bit
more of a temporary sign. We'd have regulations if the building becomes vacant and
the business is no longer there for ultimately taking the sign down, but not for when
one has to go up.
MCMAHON: Okay. And that leads me to another question and concern is that if the
business never puts up a permanent sign, does the banner get -- then hopefully, the
banner doesn't get to remain there permanently as a banner or flag or something like
that, correct? I mean, there's no way it can be converted into a permanent sign,
correct?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember. So yes, the allowance for the first year for a new
business, that would expire at the end of that first year and then after that, they could
do the 150 days, if that stays in the code, 30 days at a time maximum. But they certainly
couldn't extend that as a permanent nature.
MCMAHON: Do you think that six months might be better because then that might be
the impetus for them to get a permanent sign instead of having a banner up there? And
then they would still be able to have a banner for other things pursuant to the code for
other reasons.
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, the P&Z commission discussed everything from six
months to a year and ended up staying with the one year that had been initially
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mentioned by council. But certainly anything in there is an option as directed by the
council.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: I don't think we can say to a new business owner, you got to buy a new
sign within six months. I think that's unfair. A year does sound like a long time, I get
that. But we're already telling them that the sign has to be maintained and replaced as
necessary. I don't approve of also saying, hey, thanks for spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars with us, now you got to go buy a sign, too. So I do approve the
banner there for the year and not lowering that time frame. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Just to be clear, the maximum 150 days a year is for any business, not a
new business? And were at 32 square foot maximum banners on any business, 150
days a year, no renewals or anything like that required. Just they can change --
WESLEY: At 30 days at a time. So they'd update their permit after that time, so we keep
track of the 150 days.
MAYOR DICKEY: They do have to get a permit? Because that's still there too.
WESLEY: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All right. Okay. Thanks.
WESLEY: I heard, I guess, one comment --
KALIVIANAKIS: Yes. Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
And on the 150 day banner signs, what would be the fee, initial fee? And then what is
the renewal fee after 30 days?
WESLEY: Mayor, councilmember, that's one thing I didn't look back at. I think it's either
25 or $50. It's not much, but it's --
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. And then every 30 days it'd be another 25 or 50?
WESLEY: Right.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you.
WESLEY: So Mayor, I think I heard a little bit of, well, if they put up the permanent sign,
then they're done with this one-year banner sign; is that correct? Okay. So we can
make that adjustment.
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Going on to temporary signs for commercial and industrial post and board signs. So a
change here. Currently, post and board signs are allowed in the right-of-way only in a
couple of unique situations. You've got a building that's built to the property line, so
there's no place in a commercial area where you can put the post and board sign, so you
could put it in the right-of-way in that situation. And then if the topography is such that
because of the hillside slope, whatever, once you put it in the right-of-way or on the
property, it's so far down a hill that you can't see it. Other than that it can't go on the
right-of-way in the current code. So this is a change to allow just post and boards in the
right-of-way regardless.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's the right-of-way just in front of their own property?
WESLEY: Yes. Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: And then are you allowed to see how that house, that sign says, "For
sale - open house", but there's a sign on Saguaro that I think says, like "For rent" but
then it has like a "No vacancy" swipe on it. Is there anything about not letting swipes,
having swipes.
WESLEY: That's content.
MCMAHON: Content?
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, no. I mean, it's having another sign across another sign. Well,
actually, this is like two signs, but it says like, "No vacancy", or something like that?
WESLEY: Right. Yes. I know what you're talking about. But Mayor, as long as that's
within the area, total area allowance for the sign, then it's --
MAYOR DICKEY: What about -- well, okay. Well, what if it doesn't look like a sign? If it
just looks like you tacked something on? I mean, does that go to, like, materials or is
there a way to make it that it has to look nice? I mean, people can put swipes on every
sign, you know, I mean.
WESLEY: I understand what you're saying there. I'm not sure how we could get to that.
I could think about it and come back if you'd like me to. But a little bit challenging.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Yes.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yes. Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I'm kind of with the mayor on this one. I
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don't like the sign -on -sign deal. We're giving him a sign and we're telling him, put a
second sign on the same pole. It doesn't seem right to me. I think that that should be
looked into. And then the one that you're specifically referring to is leaning, and it looks
like in a state of disrepair. And I've always wondered why code enforcement doesn't say
either fix your sign or take it down. I hate to put you on the spot.
WESLEY: Mayor and Councilmember, I see that too as I drive along Saguaro. It's usually,
I think, more when I'm leaving because I'm on the side of the street then. And so I don't
think about it when I come back in the morning. But I've thought about that sometimes,
too, that code enforcement probably ought to take a look at that. And so with the
discussion this evening, hopefully, tomorrow I'll remember to have them take a look.
Because there's a maintenance issue, the way it is leaning. So it may get fixed, but that
wouldn't necessarily get rid of it.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. It just looks like it's in a state of disrepair and it's tacky. Thank
you.
WESLEY: So last part then of temporary signs for commercial industrial would be the
yard signs. One per business allowed in the right way, but not on Shea. And then again,
sunrise to sunset.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: How does this jive with the other commercial signs allowed on Shea
Boulevard, temporary signs? This is like a yard sign. A yard sign, you're saying
temporary, commercial, and industrial. So that's not -- we're not talking commercial
signs here, right? Are we talking yard signs? I mean --
WESLEY: Right now I'm talking just yard signs --
MAYOR DICKEY: The other ones were --
WESLEY: -- in commercial industrial areas.
MCMAHON: So it says one per business?
WESLEY: Right. You can put them in the right-of-way --
MCMAHON: It's allowed in the right-of-way adjacent to commercial --
WESLEY: Right.
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MCMAHON: -- except on Shea.
WESLEY: Except on Shea. So Saguaro, wherever there's commercial, but not on Shea.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think, maybe, because we were talking about A -frames and post or --
WESLEY: Post and board --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- T-things, and this is yard signs. These are the wire thingies?
WESLEY: Right?
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: How will we enforce this sunrise to sunset condition on all of this stuff?
Do we have to hire a new code enforcement person? Are we shifting the hours of an
existing person? How are we going to make this happen?
WESLEY: So Mayor, Vice Mayor, as we currently have two and a half code officers and
they're currently enforcing very similar provisions in the code, mostly just on the
weekends; so it would extend it to each day of the week. The hours they work
currently, particularly this time of year when it gets light later and dark earlier, it won't
be too much of a stretch in terms of their normal days. We previously did have them
working seven days a week and we can move back to that to help make sure we get that
enforcement on a daily basis.
GRZYBOWSKI: What about summertime?
WESLEY: Summertime would be a little bit more of a challenge, but the hope is that
between now and summertime, people will have learned the rules and the enforcement
issue won't be quite as significant. But still they can adjust their times without too much
difficulty to make that work.
GRZYBOWSKI: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm not sure how you compare, though, like having to worry about
when they can put them upon Fridays and then they can take them down on Sundays.
That's two times. This is going to be every single day, seven days a week, every
morning, every night. I mean, that's a lot more enforcement than just a Friday morning
and a Sunday night, or a Monday night if there's a holiday. And now every single day is
going to be like, when was the official sunrise? No, darn it, that was really there? I
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swear to God, the sun was up. And every single day, seven days a week, on every right-
of-way in town. I don't know.
WESLEY: It will be a challenge, but one we hope is manageable.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Also, I have a -- I also have a big concern with enforcement. I think it's
more realistic in the prior sign ordinance, where we only had certain days that you could
have the signs, I think it's better for staff and the community. Also, if they can have
these signs up every day from sunrise to sunset, so what? They're not going to remove
it. They're not going to get up at sunrise and put the sign back out there because why?
I mean, they're going to gamble on the fact -- I would assume they're going to gamble
on the fact that we're not going to have enough staff or code enforces to enforce it. So
therefore, why? What's the impetus for them to take it down? I don't think that
allowing these signs daily is appropriate, given the staff and the inability to enforce it. I
like the prior ordinance where we were only-- there's only a couple of days a week that
these signs can be -- signs like this can be up. I don't think that it's going to damage or
whatever, business or whatever, to not have it every single day. But it's worked so far. I
don't understand. And I'm not for that type of a change. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
FRIEDEL: I can't disagree more. I think there's no question it'll take a little bit of
education. I don't see 10,000 signs that we're dealing with here. And secondly, I think
most of these business owners, you're right, they're not going to put them up at sunrise.
They might open at 9 or 10 o'clock; that's when the signs will go up. No, I don't see
signs out there at sunrise. The signs go out when they're ready to engage with their
customer base. The customer base then knows that they're open and ready to serve
them. So I think, yes, there'll be a little bit of a learning curve because it's going to be
new. But I think we need to give these businesses every opportunity to make a living in
this town. I don't think it's going to be a big burden. Will there be a few offenders?
Probably, there always are. But I think the majority of our businesses will respect what
this town does, and we're open for business and that's what this tells them.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: When we ask them to take it down at sunset, we may have some people
that are literal. Take it down, fold it, leave it where it is, and on my way in to work
tomorrow, I'll pull to the side of the road, unfold it, and put it back up. How do we feel
about it being folded and right exactly where it is?
WESLEY: Mayor, Vice Mayor, if we see it and it's in the right-of-way, we'll pick it up. If
they've folded it and set it aside where we don't see it, and maybe it does stay there but
then nobody else is seeing it either.
MAYOR DICKEY: And with what Gerry was saying, I agree, that with businesses when
they open and such. But you don't have to be a business to put a sign in a right-of-way
now. Anybody can put any sign in a right-of-way, that says anything. That's what this is
opening the door to. It's residential areas in a right-of-way. And it can say anything. So
I agree with you on commercial, on businesses. This sign ordinance is not going to do
that. It's opening up a door to: "Vote no. Vote yes. I hate you. I love you"; whatever
you want to say on every right-of-way in this town. Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I'm looking at the screen that says temporary,
commercial, and industrial and I don't think they would be able to put these in
residential, with all due respect.
MAYOR DICKEY: We didn't get there yet, sorry.
KALIVIANAKIS: Oh. So we're -- okay. We're jumping ahead. Okay. Because I'm still
here.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, no. I'm sorry about that. But I just know what it says about
residential areas, too.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Just maybe a word of caution, we should take it in order. I get
confused, and so I thought we were talking about this, and I just want to make sure they
can't put commercial and industrial signs in residential areas to promote some business.
Okay.
WESLEY: Are we ready to move? Okay. So moving then to multifamily and permanent
signage. So again, they can have awning, canopy signs, building wall signs, freestanding
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wall fence signs, and monument signs. I guess that is the list of what multifamily could
have in terms of permanent signage. No changes. In terms of temporary signs, very
similar discussion. So we won't have to really, necessarily touch on every one of these.
But multifamily can use the A -frame as a directional only. So again, it would be allowed
in the right-of-way at turning movements any day, and on -site plus five additional.
Banner signs, again, we had a discussion at P&Z that they couldn't quite come to a
conclusion on but wanted me to bring it up with council. The code allows a banner sign
if you're an apartment complex of at least 20 units or more. There were some P&Z
commissioners who thought that should maybe be reduced for smaller apartment
complexes, down to maybe nine or ten unit complexes. Again, they couldn't quite come
to a conclusion but wanted to make sure that the council was aware of that, in case
you'd like to discuss lowering it below the 20.
GRZYBOWSKI: If I may?
MAYOR DICKEY: Go ahead, Vice Mayor.
GRZYBOWSKI: I went out to leaddeveloper.com and according to them, and another
website that I neglected to make the note of, an apartment complex is a structure with
five or more housing units. So I would support, if we're going to do this kind of thing, I
would support reducing the number of units. The four -unit is considered a quad, but
from five and up, it's actually considered an apartment complex. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: So if you have a four -unit complex, then there are nine or ten or what
we're talking about, then they would be able to have a banner. But again, like Brenda
said, they have to get a new permit every 30 days. But I guess part of it is whether the
banner overwhelms a smaller thing. That's probably what went into the 20 units or
more. But I'm going to say something that you already know. I don't know how we're
allowed to call something a directional sign without that being content based, it can
have anything written on it. So I just keep getting to that same thing all the time. It can
say anything, it's not really just directional. It's not just like, here's a yard sale or this
place is open. It can say anything.
WESLEY: Yes, that is correct. Mayor, one thing that maybe a little bit -- that's been lost
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in some of the discussion, however, about these directional signs really proliferating.
The code does require them to be at turning movements, so you can't just put them all
along the block. You have them at your property, at the turning movements to get
there. So you can have a whole cluster at the corners but not necessarily spread along
the block.
MAYOR DICKEY: So if I want to put five -- because we're going to get to that -- five signs
up at turning places that lead to my house, but I'm not really trying to get anybody to
lead to my house. I'm just trying to say vote for whoever or eat wherever or have a nice
day, I can do that?
WESLEY: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: I can do five signs. And we were hoping they're directional signs
because the whole idea of it is for yard signs, yard sales, and open houses, and normal
good uses. But I can do that and my neighbor can do that and their neighbor can do
that, and we can all put five signs out if we want. And if there's politics involved or
something like that, even if it's not, quote -unquote, a political sign, you can have a
political message?
WESLEY: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
WESLEY: Okay. So I heard some support for reducing the 20 or more, down to 10?
Five?
GRZYBOWSKI: But I'm fine with ten, if that's where you guys want to go.
WESLEY: Okay. And then the discussion earlier in terms of the, they get a permanent
sign, then we'll make that adjustment here too that -- or I guess, the adjustment we
make to the banner signs will carry through to every place in terms of if you get a
permanent sign, then your one-year allowance is gone.
MAYOR DICKEY: So you're considering this a banner sign in the same way that they're
actually, like, advertising apartments for rent or something?
WESLEY: Vacancies, right?
MAYOR DICKEY: But it could say anything?
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WESLEY: Right. Okay. So temporary, again for multifamily. The same thing as
elsewhere would be allowed in the right-of-way. Yard signs, two per lot. So that's an
increase, it has been one per lot. And then we recognized some challenges maybe with
condominium projects where you don't really own the lot and you might have a couple
of units there and how to handle that. So we made an allowance there to two- or three -
unit condo development that you could have two per unit. But after that it's treated
similar to any other larger commercial or apartment complex.
And then again, back to the directional signs in the right-of-way. So we had that
discussion.
Permanent for nonresidential uses in a residential district. Permanent signs: the
awning, the building wall, the monument signs. And similar thing again then on the
temporaries. Now you can have balloons again with a change to allow the ten foot to
the top. Same conditions on the banner signs. You can have a flagpole options.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can you put ten -foot balloons on any one of those A -frames or
anything that you put -- any of those? Like if you do those five signs, can you put
balloons on each one of those signs?
WESLEY: You can put a balloon on them, right, to two -foot diameter. Balloon, right.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Thanks.
GRZYBOWSKI: Sorry. Stutter. Stutter. I can't wait to see that in the verbatim. Okay.
Yes, I can't wait to see verbatim next week. So I thought the balloons had to be a
certain distance from the street or from the ground, and then ten foot-- help me.
Because I feel like we're missing something on this page.
WESLEY: Yeah. Mayor, Vice Mayor. Right, I didn't put all the details in here, but the
bottom of the balloon, seven feet up top, ten feet up, two -foot diameter balloon.
GRZYBOWSKI: Thank you. That helped.
WESLEY: Okay. Poster boards, again the same. Yard signs, multifamily zone allowed a
little bit larger yard sign than the single family zone. Okay? Permanent signs. Single-
family, actual single-family use doesn't really have a permanent sign, but the subdivision
could have the wall sign or the monument sign. Otherwise temporary signs and single
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residence, you can have the directional signs, the flagpole, the posting board, the yard
sign. That is an overview of what the code would allow in terms of signage, with the
changes highlighted for each of the sign types.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So since we asked questions while we were doing it, let's
hear from the public.
WESLEY: We do have a few more slides with the other changes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, I thought that said questions.
WESLEY: Sorry, Mayor. It's not that easy.
MAYOR DICKEY: I thought you were done.
WESLEY: No, I'm not totally done.
MAYOR DICKEY: Continue.
WESLEY: This may be a good breaking point to discuss that piece, but it's just a couple
of slides, Mayor. So just a few other changes were made. In definitions, we added a
definition of right-of-way. There was some concern about some businesses sort of
maybe having some traveling, flashing kind of light things. So we made some
modifications there about light displays. We combined sections 604 and 605 on
violations and enforcement into one section, divided it into permanent and temporary
to make all that clearer how we would handle those. Changed the penalties so they do
just reference the Section 183, which does increase the penalties. Which again,
hopefully, would be a deterrent to the proliferation of the temporary signs. And we're
making some slight adjustments in our policy for how we would enforce those. The
changed ordinance section 607, we clarified language with regard to signs in the right-
of-way. We moved the prohibited signs. We changed the prohibited signs. It was a
long list before, divided it into some groups to make it a bit easier to read and follow.
We added language with regard to the state preemption for elections. So that can apply
to any election, not just those with a primary. Whereas the ones with a primary is a 71-
day in advance, we put this with 60 days in advance of elections without a primary.
MAYOR DICKEY: So John, that last one is obviously a sticking point. The state law is in
violation of Reed v. Gilbert and cities are forced to try to come up with something that
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will comply with federal and state law, which is impossible, but we're doing what we
can. How are we allowed to change what the state is saying, as far as when you can put
political signs out? If we start to define them as political signs, then we're judging
content. And so I don't understand how we can -- how can we change what the state is
saying? State's wrong, but we still have to do it. But now we're jumping in the boat
with them, it seems to me, by making a change that's based on content.
CLERK'S NOTE: Councilmember Toth stepped away from the dais at 7:28 p.m.
WESLEY: Mayor, thank you for asking. I don't know if I can give a clear answer because
this is, unfortunately, confusing because we do have two things we're trying to meld
together and meet both the best that we can. And so what the state statute does do, is
allow for, or basically mandate, a preemption of our local ordinance for primary
elections. And 71 days in advance of the primary election in areas outside of the sign -
free zone -- which is another complication we'll talk about in just a second -- in
residential areas, you're going to have in the right-of-way what they call political signs,
up to 16 square feet by our code. Closest we would have would be a post and board
sign because of the nature of the sign. And so during those seasons along all residential
streets and in a sign -free zone, a person can put as many of those 16-square-foot signs
in the right-of-way in front of their house. It doesn't have to have a political message,
though. It could be a commercial message. We won't be regulating the message
because that's where our code comes back in and our attempt to follow Reed.
The state says we've got to allow that size sign. So we'll allow that size sign, but we're
not going to regulate the message. Similarly, in commercial areas, it can be a 32-square-
foot sign that can go in those areas or up to that size; they can be smaller. And so
outside of a sign -free zone. And so again, the message on the sign, we're not going to
regulate anything smaller. So during those times we could see a proliferation of other
types of -- I'll call them bandit signs, that get put in these areas. And they'll just be
allowed because the state's preempted us from enforcing our sign code in those sign -
free zone areas.
MAYOR DICKEY: No. We should not refer to the state at all. We're just saying the Town
mammInvealtlit
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of Fountain Hills is now considering during X number of days before a primary, you can
put four by four signs up now and they can say anything they want. So we're
piggybacking onto something that's content -based. But if we refer to the state, they do
this because it's political season, we're going to extend that political season. Then we're
defining, because we're using them as the reference. If you want to change the law and
say, okay, from June till the end of November, you can put six, four by fours up, then
you're doing what you're saying. It's content neutral, but you're allowing big, different
signs during that period, which is an election time, but it doesn't have to have an
election message.
So I don't know if the actual language does refer to the state or not. But if that's the
intention, is to allow four by fours everywhere in rights -of -way from June or whatever it
is -- May till the end of November, then we just need it to say that.
WESLEY: So Mayor, here's the language, 2(a)(I)(3). So going back up to the top, though,
"Signs are prohibited in the following locations: Town rights -of -way", except as allowed
by A.R.S. 16-1019. So that's recognizing our requirement to allow the preemption of the
state statute and then extending that to also then apply 60 days prior.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. That's not our fault that we have to do the first part. Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. The state statute does cover election laws. This might be some --
if you could weigh in without going into executive session Aaron, I would really
appreciate it. Because can you expand or contract as a municipality, a state law?
CLERK'S NOTE: Councilmember Toth returned to the dais at 7:33 p.m.
ARNSON: So the general rule of thumb, Mayor and Councilmember, the general rule of
thumb is that when any statute guarantees minimum rights, you can't fall below the
level of rights guaranteed by the statute. Right? We can't take away from a right that
the state has granted. A municipality is always entitled to provide additional protections
if they want to, so long as they don't conflict with or take away from what's already
been established by the state. So to weigh in with respect to what the mayor was
talking about, there's no better way to say it than how direct Director Wesley said it.
You know, during the time that election season is happening and when those election
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signs are posted, the simple answer is in order to straddle both First Amendment
requirements and state law requirements effectively; we're not looking at content of
the sign. That's just what the practical reality is. It's impossible to comply with both,
without simply saying if a sign's out, the sign's out there during election season. Mayor,
that was the point you were driving at, I think.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right. And again, if that's the desire to allow the large signs in rights -
of -way everywhere, only extend the time of it, don't hook it onto an illegal -- then we're
doing the illegal thing and we're creating a sign ordinance because of the state. Let's
just come right out and say you want to have big signs for a longer period of time
everywhere, and it has nothing to do with the state because it's content neutral. The
state's the one calling it political.
So you take that whole thing out about A.R.S. and just say for non -primary or just say
from May until whatever or 60 days before or after an election we're allowing big signs.
Because that's really what this is doing.
MCMAHON: 60 days?
MAYOR DICKEY: 60 days. Yeah.
WESLEY: It's 71 days.
MAYOR DICKEY: 60 days --
WESLEY: 71 days prior to a --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. After, they have to take it out sooner.
WESLEY: For 15 days, right.
MCMAHON: No, before. I think there was a shorter period.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, after.
MCMAHON: I thought there was a shorter period to take down the signs after.
FRIEDEL: It's 15 days.
MCMAHON: But 60 days is reasonable before an election and then the state statute
governs after. It's a shorter, much shorter period of time.
WESLEY: Right. Mayor and Councilmembers, for an election with a primary it's 71 days
before, and there's 15 days after that they have to come down.
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MAYOR DICKEY: And if you lose the primary, supposedly, you're supposed --
WESLEY: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- to take them down before that.
WESLEY: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. The Town of Fountain Hills does have a political
sign ordinance, and -- we don't?
MAYOR DICKEY: No. We don't.
KALIVIANAKIS: What about the red line ordinance?
MAYOR DICKEY: So the State of Arizona, when they passed the mandate that cities had
to put up political signs, they threw a bone and said you can create a political sign -free
zone. So it's the state law. That's what the political sign -free zone is based on. It had to
be three square feet or something like -- or three square miles. It had to be like a
touristy area, that kind of thing. So it was created in 2012 to help mitigate the fact that
the state was making us put these signs up during that period of time. So that's basically
the reason we have the sign -free zone. But we really can't have anything based on
whether it's a political sign or a directional sign or any sign.
WESLEY: So Mayor, if I may? Here's the map of the sign -free zone. The complication
becomes, if our ordinance now is allowing you to put your directional sign on any of
these streets, any day, we can't control that message. So that message in the sign -free
zones could be a political message for signs that are put up and taken down each day as
allowed by the code.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. And I was wrong before. We're not extending the time. We
just want to be able to have big signs during elections that are just general elections. So
that's what we're doing. We didn't extend the time. We just said you can have big signs
now if it's just a November election.
WESLEY: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: And when we had the right-of-way thing -- don't forget, we passed no
temporary signs at all in this town. And then we tried to be compromising and put it
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back the way it was so that it was Fridays to Sundays. Now, with it every single day -- so
during the election season, political sign -free zone, it was just easier. Now it's just going
to be every day. So it's going to be very difficult to enforce, that's for sure. And to look
at.
WESLEY: So some other changes that are included. It has been recommended that we
eliminate any further additional electronic message signs. And so that was taken out of
6.08B. The language has moved up to 6.07C, in the nonconforming section. So we'd still
have the rules available to regulate the existing signs and added that also into the list of
prohibited signs. Added some language in the illumination section with regard to
traveling lights to deal with that situation. And section 6.08C was renamed B because
we took out the previous B, and then there's a table in the current code about
aggregate temporary sign area that really didn't work very well. 5o we took that out
and restructured that to more clearly discuss construction signs.
And I believe that is it. So now here, I'm done.
CLERK'S NOTE: Vice Mayor Grzybowski stepped away from the dais at 7:35 p.m.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Now we'll hear from the public unless you have -- do you
have a question for the --
SKILLICORN: Yeah. Madam Mayor, I just have one question for Director on this one.
The biggest complaint I get is about like trucks, RVs and stuff, that are wrapped as signs.
And I'm not talking about delivery -- like, a delivery truck, you put your name and phone
number on there. I'm not talking about that. Some that are skirting the sign ordinance
by putting a large vehicle with a wrap on it and not intending to move it, and it's
supposed to be a billboard. The only thing I can think about addressing that is that
having a requirement that it has to move every 72 hours. Again, I don't want to penalize
the delivery truck or the plumber or something like that. Right? But the specific people
that want to put a billboard in the middle of town and that billboard happens have
wheels on it. So the only thing I can think of is some sort of amendment that it says that
that type of billboard has to move every 72 hours. Obviously, I've got to be respectful if
it's weekend or something, if it is the plumbing truck. But I'm trying not to target the
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
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plumbing truck.
CLERK'S NOTE: Vice Mayor Grzybowski returned to the dais at 7:37 p.m.
WESLEY: Councilmember--
MAYOR DICKEY: Are you finding it? The language error that we have?
WESLEY: Yes, there is, Mayor. Let me get to it. It's at the very end, unfortunately. So
currently, starting in "e" must be parked on a legal parking space, and not distinct from
any other parking area. And it goes on here in terms of it must be operable. Has to be
as far back from the right-of-way as possible and can't stay in one space for more than
72 hours. It was --
SKILLICORN: So that seems to be already addressed. Now, when you say -- I do see that
right-of-way as far as possible, but if it's in a parking spot, it's in a parking spot. Yeah.
So it isn't the parking spot that's farthest away from the right-of-way, but -- okay. Thank
you.
MCMAHON: I appreciate all your hard work. Thank you, John, and also the planning
and zoning commission. But to me, this sign ordinance does not reflect our Town of
Fountain Hills. It really is convoluted. It creates a big mess. It makes it more confusing
not only for businesses but residential properties, et cetera, to understand what and
what they cannot do with signs. I'm all for reenacting the prior sign ordinance. It was
understood. It worked well. The town was able to enforce it. So I am absolutely not
for-- no offense -- for this particular sign ordinance when we already have one, an
excellent one that was in place. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Why don't we hear from the public, from public speaker cards, please?
MENDENHALL: Okay. Mayor, we have. Let's see. It looks like seven cards, maybe six.
Six cards. First, we'll start with Stephen Gay. And then on deck is Cindy Couture.
GAY: Good evening. I'll keep this one short. The sign ordinance as it stands is pro -
business. Keeps the town looking clean and pleasing to the eye. The proposed
ordinance would allow a greater variety of signs, with less permitting and oversight. It
would give our wonderful town a jumbled look. Maybe not as bad as Times Square in
New York, but you get the idea. Some people might use the vernacular eyesore. Thank
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you.
COUTURE: I'm going to be even faster. Cindy Couture, Fountain Hills. We've got a big
election coming up, and if you don't think there are going to be nine million signs
wanting to be out there and making our town look really bad, you're wrong. And we
need to go back to the old sign ordinance.
MENDENHALL: Next we have Gene Slechta and on deck, Linda Somo.
SLECHTA: I'm Gene Slechta, 28-year resident. I also feel that we need to return to the
original sign ordinance. This should be voted down. There's lots of suggested changes
that are a problem, but the major ones are around the A -frame temporary signs and
Shea Boulevard. Signs can be placed in the public right-of-way anywhere. So businesses
on Colony Drive can place their signs on Shea. Businesses on Palisades can place their
signs on Shea. Businesses on Rio Verde Drive can place signs on, you guessed it, Shea
Boulevard. Maximum number of signs is one per street frontage. So one or two, the
businesses can have any number of signs on Shea Boulevard or in front of their business.
But if a business puts signs on Shea and Saguaro and Palisades, you tell me how code
enforcement is going to monitor that? And what is a business? Can it be a business out
of their home? How many signs can be out there on Shea Boulevard then?
As for requiring businesses to bring signs in every evening, good luck with that. The
proliferation of tacky, temporary signs with these changes will cause a nightmare
challenge for the town. The beauty of our town and surrounding desert and mountains
is too precious to cheapen. Temporary sign abuse and clutter damages our property
values. We need to think about that. Temporary sign abuse is dangerous. Putting signs
out and retrieving them on Shea Boulevard? We're adding risks for employee safety
and risk for vehicle traffic on Shea. Those signs are hard to read at 30 miles an hour, let
alone at 50 miles an hour. This creates a serious distraction. These signs were always
meant for the walkable environment, not for a main highway. The only proper signage
for Shea businesses are monument type signage.
And finally, why are we doing business in a 20th century manner? My business locator
is my smartphone or my vehicle that has voice driven Internet. Please vote this down.
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Thank you.
SOMO: Madam Mayor, councilmembers. I do applaud the planning and zoning
committee and the council for trying to change the sign ordinance. However, as a
famous philosopher once said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I think that philosopher might
have been Yogi Berra, but regardless, it's sound advice. The current ordinance that we
have, that was unanimously adopted in 2021, has served us well in this community.
Every time I come back to Fountain Hills after driving elsewhere, I am again just awed by
the beauty of the scenery and the beauty of our town. Please don't mess it up. From
what I've heard tonight of what this new sign ordinance could do to our town, it'll be a
disaster. Please vote this down and keep our current sign ordinance. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next, we have Suzanne Brown.
BROWN: Good evening, Mayor, and councilmembers. I am Suzanne Brown, the
director of community and government affairs for the Scottsdale Area Association of
Realtors. I'm here this evening on behalf of the Scottsdale Area Association of Realtors
to extend our thanks and support of the proposed amendments to the sign ordinance.
We appreciate all the hard work that has gone into drafting the current version that you
have before you tonight and support its adoption. Thank you for your time and
consideration.
MENDENHALL: That's it for public comment. But I do want to point you to your packet.
We will not be saying each person's name, but to let you know that we had 18
comments in writing, one was also in here. And we have 15 against, and three for
approval of the ordinance.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So I'm going to close the hearing and then we can continue
speaking and asking questions or comments among ourselves. Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. A quick question for Director Wesley. When
planning and zoning approved this, they voted on it, correct?
WESLEY: Correct.
SKILLICORN: Did it pass?
WESLEY: Yes.
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SKILLICORN: What was the vote?
WESLEY: I believe we have it right there. Seven, zero.
SKILLICORN: So unanimous?
WESLEY: Yes, it was unanimous.
SKILLICORN: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I know we've done a lot of discussion on this already.
So I'll keep my comments fairly short and sweet. I want to thank the staff and planning
and zoning commission for a lot of work on an issue that we do a lot of talking about. I
know we do.
I have heard the comments from my fellow councilmembers that essentially equate to
"if it ain't broke, don't fix it". However, it was broke. When I was running for council
and I was kind of figuring out what are my main talking points, what are the main issues
in town? The number one thing I heard about from business owners and residents alike
was the sign ordinance. And I understand that we're not seeing a lot of those people at
the meeting tonight, but that's probably because a lot of them are working or running
their business at the moment. When we go on these amazing visits to hear from
business owners, one of the number one things we hear about is the sign ordinance.
This is something that affects residents and business owners here in town. I made the
promise to do something to fix their concerns because that was the number one thing
that I heard about. It's not something that I pulled out of thin air. It's not something I
brought back because I enjoy fighting with people. This is something that they feel
passionate about, so I feel passionate about it. And that's why we're bringing this back.
That's why we're proposing these changes.
Now, with all of that being said, my only concerns with the new proposed ordinance
would be in 6.07E, the change that, I guess, we can make it a little bit easier if I just go to
our lovely summary. Thank you again to our town staff. Within our summary it says
that the P&Z had expressed concerns with seeing an increasing number of businesses
placing traveling LED lights inside their windows. Now personally, I have not seen very
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many of these. However, I, being the person who ran very specifically to make this
more broad for the sake of our business owners, I would be against having more
prohibitations (sic) or barriers to our business owners.
5o my proposal would be a motion to amend resolution 2023-03, the proposed
resolution or ordinance. To strike 6.07E, items 3 and 13, which I will read to the
audience as well, and 6.07F to remove the new term "traveling".
Now, to bring the crowd in on what's going on, I know we've had a lot of feedback on
that so give me just one moment while I pull that up. 6.07E would be -- sorry. There's a
lot of pages here.
WESLEY: Let me see if I can pull it up, councilmember.
TOTH: Thank you for that. Okay. 6.07E, item 3 is, "Any animated or moving sign,
including televisions or signs with streaming video". And 6.07F is -- oops, sorry. Item
13 in 6.07E is, "Electronic message centers". And 6.07F is that new inclusion of the
term, "Traveling" as listed in our summary that I read earlier.
So I'll repeat that I'd like to make a motion to amend Resolution 2023-03 by striking
6.07E, items 3 and 13, and 66.07F, with the term "traveling".
MAYOR DICKEY: Aaron, I don't think anybody made a main motion yet. And so yours is
amending it. I don't know --
ARNSON: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- you can make a motion to accept it with those but it wouldn't bean
amendment yet because we didn't have a motion.
ARNSON: Yes. So --
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Can I fix that --
ARNSON: Yeah.
TOTH: -- to be a motion to approve with those amendments?
ARNSON: Yes.
TOTH: Thank you.
ARNSON: Or with those changes --
MAYOR DICKEY: Changes?
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ARNSON: yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Not amendments. Changes. Yeah. Okay.
WESLEY: Mayor, may I? Well, I don't know. Maybe you need a second first before I say
anything. But I do have a question about the councilmember's amendment, and that is
with 6.07 13. That's a different issue than the traveling lights in the windows. This
relates to the electronic message center. So if you're taking that out of the prohibition
list, are you leaving then -- are we not removing electronic message centers as an
allowed sign type down here in 6.08? Let's see. Are we leaving them as allowed sign
type here and not eliminating them here?
TOTH: Okay. Thank you, Director Wesley. So you are correct, it is a slightly different
issue. I had skipped ahead in my notes.
WESLEY: Okay.
TOTH: The electronic message centers, I would like to ensure that those are allowed for
businesses. So that was part of the changes. But your second comment was that saying
that if that is removed, that's removing the definition?
WESLEY: And the reason we added electronic message centers to the list of prohibited
signs was because we were moving the allowance for them down in 6.08 B.
TOTH: Understood.
WESLEY: So if we're taking this out here, that doesn't necessarily make them allowed
because we've removed it elsewhere but it does create some confusion, at that point,
what the intent is.
TOTH: Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Director Wesley. I'd rather we handle that now
than later. Right? In that case, can we add to my motion to approve with changes, and
one of those changes being to return -- what is that, 6.08B, you said?
WESLEY: Correct.
TOTH: Okay. Thank you.
WESLEY: Which also again means that here in 6.07C where we move the statements
about the electronic message centers to the nonconforming section, we wouldn't need
to do that because they're still going to be allowed sign. So that would be another
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change.
TOTH: Okay. Thank you. What Director Wesley said. Thank you, Director Wesley.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second?
GRZYBOWSKI: I would.
FRIEDEL: Second.
GRZYBOWSKI: Oh, go ahead. I was going to actually say I would put a second in for the
traveling open signs. I don't see any reason to totally negate them. But one of the
biggest sign complaints I get is the electronic message center. So I can't second both of
those things combined.
MAYOR DICKEY: So we do have a motion for both those things and a second. So we can
discuss that. I agree about the message centers. Councilman?
SKILLICORN: So thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm not sure if this is going to be a question
for the councilmember or Director Wesley, but I do want to get a clarification on this
message center. So when I think of message center, I think of like a red scrolling LED
like, you know, "New weekend hours', blah, blah, blah. Right? That's a message, right?
Or is this all -encompassing? Is this allowing electronic signs, this is allowing Las Vegas -
style signs in Fountain Hills? And that would be an area that I will not approve of. So I
want to make sure that we are allowing a scrolling message or are we allowing a
electronic LED sign? Please, please give us a clarification there?
WESLEY: You can go up here. So. Mayor, Councilmember, so you can think of the MCO
sign. They have the theater sign on Saguaro, the one for Pete's Fitness Center, the
chamber electronic message center sign, those are what we're talking about. So there's
a kind of a variety of types. But they're all --
SKILLICORN: So those are all -encompassing? So were basically -- these would allow Las
Vegas -style signs in Fountain Hills?
MAYOR DICKEY: They're allowed right now.
SKILLICORN: Yeah. They're allowed right now, and that's something that I asked to not
allow anymore as part of this. 5o okay. That's all I need to know, and that would
actually mean that I need to vote no on this type of thing.
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MAYOR DICKEY: And again we can -- if we do end up voting no, or if you amend it or not
amend it -- if we vote no, you can make another motion. Let's put it that way. Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, I would have to concur with Councilmember Skillicorn on that.
One of the things that, right from the beginning, I don't like the electronic message
boards. I don't like the electronic signs. I do believe we'll grandfather the ones that we
have in there at the moment. But do I want to see any more of those signs in our town?
No. And the other thing is, and maybe this is just me and I'm kind of confused tonight,
but those electronic message boards, when they display white background, how can
those be Dark Sky compliant? I don't think they are. So I think it goes in the face of our
Dark Sky community. I think they're obnoxious, and I would be a real hard no on this
one.
TOTH: I thank you, Madam Mayor, and thank you fellow councilmembers. My first
comment is, just for the record, our previous ordinance did require that it was not a
plain white background in mind of dark skies, however. With that, I would now like to
amend my motion to approve with changes. See, I'm learning. I would like to amend
that to not include the changes to 6.08B, or 6.07E. But to still include the change for
6.07F to remove the traveling new language.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can we do it that way? I know she said amend, but --
ARNSON: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- I mean that --
ARNSON: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- that's just her motion.
ARNSON: With the --
MAYOR DICKEY: She changed --
ARNSON: Who gave the second? Sorry, who gave the second? Do you consent to the
withdrawal of that previous motion? Okay. So Councilmember Toth has now made a
second motion to do something. Well, what was it? I'm sorry. I lost track.
TOTH: OKAY. For those watching at home, my second motion is just a motion to
amend --
pp-
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ARNSON: Motion to approve.
TOTH: -- motion to approve with changes to 6.07F. Going back to what I was talking
about earlier, the traveling signs in the windows that were a referenced by P&Z and
therefore listed in 6.07F, I want to remove that new word.
MAYOR DICKEY: So I have a question for you, Aaron. In the past, when we amended a
motion, it had you couldn't amend it with something that would completely substitute a
motion or not? Like there was one time I remember that. And I'm trying to say if -- I
heard some people say, keep what we have now; is that a proper amendment? Not at
all.
ARNSON: Oh, well, I'm not sure that that is a proper amendment. The reason being is
because I remember what you're talking about, Mayor. If it changes the whole
underlying purpose of the motion, right? Like if the motion is to approve and whatever
the substitution would be, would effectively make it a motion to deny, that wouldn't be
a proper amendment. My recommendation would be assuming we get a second and I
don't know if we have -- okay. Gerry gave a second. So my suggestion would be to vote
on what's been proposed. And if you have an amendment to a portion of it, you can
make an amendment to a portion of it. Otherwise, if the motion carries. It carries if it
fails.
MAYOR DICKEY: If we vote on that, then we are approving the whole sign ordinance
with the changes?
ARNSON: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: So I think we would need to amend it then. And if we don't want to
approve the whole sign ordinance, including the changes that you made, then if
somebody says, well, I want to take out, for example, the part about rights -of -way,
being able to put signs in rights -of -way, or any of these other items that somebody
might want to remove about --
ARNSON: Yes, Mayor, that's true. My legal caution would be -- and Director Wesley
might be able to add his two cents from the code writing perspective. Just bear in mind
that with an ordinance that's of this size and scope, the more we start to tinker through
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amendments, the more it requires domino effect changes throughout the ordinance. 5o
let's just be really careful as we're making amendments perfectly permissible to do, but
let's just be careful as we're making amendments to ensure that we're consulting with
Director Wesley about what the impact of any one suggested change might be
throughout the ordinance. But that's my only suggestion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So if we if somebody wants to amend and say we don't -- just
for example, we want to go back to the three signs instead of five being allowed and we
want to go back to weekends and not sunrise, sunset, those amendments would be
allowed if anybody wanted to do that?
ARNSON: Yeah. Those are amending portions of what's been moved. Yes. As opposed
to saying we just want to go back to the whole thing as it was.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Councilwoman?
GRZYBOWSKI: So I actually would like to have a right-of-way conversation. One of the
discussions I've had with people during the course of the past couple of days is, okay, so
I have a right-of-way in my front yard, right? So does that automatically mean
somebody can put a sign in the right-of-way of my front yard? So I would like Director
Wesley or Aaron, however it has to happen, I want your average homeowner resident to
be able to understand what their right-of-way is in the front yard. And if we approve
this as is, with what we just talked about, about the traveling open signs, what does that
mean for your average homeowner's front yard?
WESLEY: Mayor, Vice Mayor. So it happens today under the current code for the
weekend directional signs, those get put in the right-of-way. Typically, they're at
corners. They should be at corners because it's supposed to be a turning movements.
So that doesn't change. It just would be expanded to every day of the week now
instead of just weekends. So yes, you could have one in your yard in front of your house
as that directional sign.
GRZYBOWSKI: And a resident is not allowed to remove the sign that may be in their
right-of-way, in their front yard or their side yard or whatever. Correct?
WESLEY: Correct.
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GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: So. And somebody could put a sign in front of your house every day
now, instead of just on the weekends.
MCMAHON: And not take it down?
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, they have to take it down, then they can put it back up. All right.
Are there any amendments along the lines of changing the time or the Shea Boulevard
stuff or the right-of-way stuff or anything else? Ves, ma'am?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. I'm not ready to vote on this ordinance at
this time. I would like to discuss the Shea Boulevard problem. If you go back and look at
the tapes from probably eight months ago, I was for letting people that own businesses
on Shea put signs in front of their business, "Joe's Car Repair", and have Joe put out a
sign every morning and taking it in at night. I thought that was a pretty darn good idea
because I am pro -business and I was in support of this because I wanted to be
supportive of realtors and businesspeople. And then all of a sudden, we started having
Reed v. Gilbert, and there was a lot of confliction in what we could do and what we
couldn't do. If we pass this ordinance as is, and if anybody went to the planning and
zoning meetings, which I did, it could be a problem with stacking. Which would be
multiple signs for many businesses or not businesses on all the intersections or up and
down Shea Boulevard. Director Wesley, could you address that issue and what was
addressed at planning and zoning?
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember. Ves. The planning and zoning commission had this
concern as we talked about it and got into the details a little bit. And as we've already
touched on a little bit here this evening, once we say that an A -frame, for example, is
allowed in the right-of-way in a given location and the right-of-way is a public area, we
really do lose control of who can ultimately put an A -frame in that location. So while on
the surface of it, you look at the number of businesses and what we're trying to do is
very reasonable, the number of signs that could go there. But since we really can't
ultimately control who puts the sign there, once it's opened up, it could become
cluttered with numerous businesses from some other distance or people just desire to
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put a sign in the location, stacking signs. So that was a concern that the planning and
zoning commission had.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Director Wesley. And you know, just to reaffirm what you're
saying, we can't control the message, we can't control the signs, and we can't control
the number of signs. And so if you don't think this is going to lead to mischief, it's going
to. Shea Boulevard gets, what? 30,000 cars a day that drive through Fountain Hills?
And Fountain Hills is known to be an affluent community. People move here because
it's an affluent community. And if we start cluttering up our main streets with this
stacking problems, with signs that could have any message out there, it may marginally
help some businesses to have 20 signs there. And maybe you can pick the one out that
you want to go to, a submarine sandwich special today. But it's going to be difficult to
even read one of the signs. The fact is, is if you let multiple signs then it negates the
effectiveness of all the signs. And then I would start worrying about property values and
I start worrying about our community. We're living in a place that's just swamped with
these temporary signs that we can't control the message, we can't control the number.
And so whereas -- and I will admit, eight months ago I was for changing this, reality has
set in and I'm sorry, I just can't go along with it. And if I'm the sole dissenter, let it be.
But as long as I'm on this council, I will vote against this. I'll take the heat from anybody
that wants to give it to me. But I under my watch, I don't want to turn Fountain Hills
into what I see it becoming. And it's like back in the future when Biff took over and it
changed the complete direction of the town. And so and unless we can change the Shea
Boulevard, I would be a no.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And Madam Mayor, Council. Is there a certain,
like, compromise? Like a number or something that would work? I mean, I just think of
the businesses along laser south of Shea there, and they're like, you know, no one
knows I'm here, right? And I want to toss those people south of Shea a bone.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman, can I mention something? Because I wanted to go back to
something that Hannah said, which was about people that were having issues with the
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unanimously passed 2021 bill by four of us up here. We did talk about that. And there
were, I can remember two issues that we talked to the chamber about. And one of
them was what you just said about Shea and Laser Drive and all that. And the other was
about the Euro Pizza -type place, which they have a front and a back. And would they
want two signs? That was it. And then maybe a little later about somebody that was
upset that they had to buy a banner. So Gerry, you remember too, we talked about like,
what would you want to change with the sign ordinance? Because we knew that there
were still a few lingering things and there was a willingness to address those things. But
then obviously, we peeled the whole thing and it got out of our hands a little bit. We
brought it back because we saw what was happening. But to your point, there are
definite changes that can be made, that could have been made, that are working with
Betsy, working with the council. I think a lot of the changes that you made in here John
and P&Z that doesn't say permit, says allowed, a lot of those make a lot of sense putting
everything into one place. Those are great. But I mean, everything else, you know, the
balloon, ten feet, everything is just like you can put a balloon on each one of those signs
you're talking about. We just said that. So I think there are things we can do to make
this better for businesses, that aren't going to affect the residential area so much.
We worked with the realtors. We had the three signs. I didn't hear anything from
realtors. And I think even at P&Z one time a realtor said it has been working okay.
So it's not that we haven't been watching it and we're just stubborn. But this has
ramifications that go beyond helping businesses. And I'm willing to help businesses, but
I can't, I really can't support all of these changes in this.
Councilwoman? Or no, I'm sorry you wanted to say something. You were on there first.
Sorry.
TOTH: I had turned mine off, but if I could make a request to hear Councilmember
Kalivianakis' answer to Councilmember Skillicorn's question?
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Councilmember Toth. I have had discussions with
staff on whether we could, like maybe have designated zones at various intersections
and maybe limit it to five signs. To let some -- certain business owners put business
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signs out there. Designate the area, ten by ten, only five. It turned out that that wasn't
going to be very practical because you would have to have somebody to be there in the
morning to see who is there first, second, third, fourth, fifth. And then, I'm sorry, you're
number six, you can't put your sign up there. So although it sounds good to let some
signs up there for certain businesses, it would be completely unenforceable. And you
couldn't do it. We couldn't hire enough staff to go to all the intersections and to say,
okay, we'll let five signs up here on this intersection, this one, this one. And so I did try
to go down that road, and it just wasn't practical.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Oh, thank you. Sorry, Councilmember McMahon. Just very quickly. So to be
clear, Director Wesley, in the case that we were to say, if you're on Shea, you can put
signs on Shea. That would not include things like our peach market or those types of
events that are occurring at -- the tractor supply parking lot is just what comes to mind,
but I'm sure that there could be or would be other examples of that.
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember. I'm trying to think through that, what you just said
and how to apply it to that situation. But I can start with, as they got their temporary
permit to do the peach market, we talked about where they could put signs and they
had to be off the right-of-way, under the current code. That became a little bit
challenging, I think, because of the topography. And so they might have ended up right
on the edge of the right-of-way along Shea. But we did restrict those to be as close to
the code as we could. As it stands today with the revisions that are proposed, there
would be no issue of the signs being in the A -frames for that event in the Shea right-of-
way.
TOTH: Okay. Thank you, Director Wesley.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I too, have visited businesses with Amanda Jacobs. And you know, we had
one or two questions about the signage. And when we explained it, they're like, oh, I
completely understand. I heard the rumor was this and that. And we completely,
thoroughly, and objectively explained the sign ordinance as far as businesses. We went
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to Crosswords (sic) Auto, which is on Technology Drive behind where Walgreens is. He
made a comment about not being able to have a sign out on Shea. But again, once we
spoke with him and explained it, he understood. And I happened to personally know
that his business is absolutely thriving and he does not have a sign on Shea Boulevard.
And again, I'm going to reiterate the fact that I'm pro -business. Why wouldn't I be?
Why wouldn't any of us not be pro -business? I don't think the proliferation of millions
of signs is going to make a huge financial difference or financial difference in a business.
Again, I think that the ordinance that we voted in, in the prior council, unanimously,
works. Our businesses are supported. It protects our community as far as beauty, et
cetera. It prevents sign graffiti all over the place, and disrespect of our property and our
views. I think that this particular ordinance -- and again, Corey and P&Z, thank you very
much, we appreciate your recommendations. However, as a councilmember, we have
to make, even though unanimously you recommended it with reservations, we have an
obligation as councilmembers to dig a little bit deeper into this and, no offense, not
accept it hook, line, and sinker. That's our job. So to even denote that otherwise, I
think, is inappropriate. But again, I think that the sign ordinance, given everything that
Mayor Dickey said, Brenda said, et cetera, I just think the proliferation of signs is just
outrageous and unacceptable for our community and our property values. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And I just kind of want to make a compromise
suggestion to Councilmember Kalivianakis and I'll explain it a little bit. Is, one, I think the
current or the as -proposed restriction the only daytime hours. So you can only put it up
in the morning, you have to take it back in, I think that's going to lead to some self -
policing. If you're not getting a benefit from that sign, you're not going to haul it out
there every single day and take in every single night before you go home if you're not
getting some real benefit from it. So I have a feeling that the significant number of
these are going to go away if they're not getting a benefit, especially if that's enforced.
So you might only get two or three businesses that are actually going, hey, I'm really
able to get some traffic because of this sign, and two or three is manageable. So 1
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wonder if the -- so we have that set. We already know it's only sunrise to sunset, that's
already in the language. What if we compromise and say it's limited to five? And I know
we have that like, oh, if it's six. But again I think we go back to that sunrise to sunset; it's
probably only going to be a couple of individuals that's really worth their time to do it.
So all of a sudden we're not even at five. But I think this would be good for the
businesses and good for the town with something like that. Limit to five, compromise,
work, and I would love to make this compromise work tonight.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'll call you in a second, Sharron, but I just want to that point. What
you're saying, though, is assuming that the people putting the signs out are businesses.
These signs can be put out by anyone and say anything. And so just looking at what's
going on with the yes -sign with a no -sign, or a no -sign with a yes -sign right in front of it.
So what you're saying makes sense for businesses, but this opens the door to much
more than that. Sorry, Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: Going back to Councilmember Skillicorn's comment of -- I wrote will stop
if no benefit. I think the concept was, the business owner is going to realize that they're
not really getting benefit of the sign and maybe they won't put it out anymore. I'm
going to tell you, as somebody that is either been a businessowner or a child of a
businessowner my entire life, that's not what you do. You see it as this might be the
one day that that magic person drives by, and if I don't put the sign out today, I'm going
to miss it. So I feel like that's a great thought. But honestly, I don't see that happening.
And I would really like to call for a vote for what has been moved already instead of
continuing the discussion, if that's okay with people? And I just want to reiterate that
the vote is the amendment with the traveling lights being allowed now. Traveling lights
open sign being allowed now, but to approve everything else as written. Is that what
we were looking at?
MCMAHON: That's my understanding.
GRZYBOWSKI: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Aaron, remind me what we do when you call for the question? Do we
have to have a second?
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ARNSON: Well, if everyone's ready to vote, we can do that. But for an actual call for the
question, you need a second and a two thirds vote and all that.
TOTH: Second.
KALIVIANAKIS: Can I have more conversation? I had my light on.
FRIEDEL: What?
TOTH: There was a second.
MAYOR DICKEY: We have a call for the question and a second. So we have to vote on
that, right?
ARNSON: I think our rules -- I'll check the rules, but -- one sec.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. He's going to check to see if it --
ARNSON: Council, before we continue discussion --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- has to be a supermajority or a --
ARNSON: -- Councilmember Skillicorn said he thinks it's a simple majority.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think it has to be five.
ARNSON: I'm pretty sure it has to be five.
MENDENHALL: It has to be two-thirds.
ARNSON: Yeah. So I think it's two-thirds. So I think it's two-thirds. So which is why I'm
going to check, so we can --
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
WESLEY: Madam Mayor, may I --
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. All in favor? Oh, go ahead.
WESLEY: If I may, real quick? Sorry to throw another monkey wrench into it, but as we
talked about the code going through it, we talked about on the banner signs for the new
business, that we amend that so that if they put up the permanent sign that that comes
down.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yep.
WESLEY: So that hasn't been discussed in terms of the motion and also on the
apartments that we could potentially move that down to ten -unit apartments or larger.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think that's understood.
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WESLEY: So that hasn't been discussed. I just wanted to know for sure if those were
included?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, those would be, right? Right, Hannah? The changes that we
talked about, we all seem to agree with for the ten apartments and the --
TOTH: That's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
TOTH: Yes.
MCMAHON: I have a question, please, before a vote is taken. So that we don't vote
wrong or the opposite of the way we want, what's the motion? And if you vote aye or
nay, consequence, please?
MAYOR DICKEY: We're voting to call for the question, which means if you vote yes, you
want to vote.
ARNSON: Yeah. If we vote yes, which requires a two -third vote, it terminates debate
on the main motion --
MAYOR DICKEY: And the --
ARNSON: -- on Hannah's motion. And then you vote on Hannah's motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
MCMAHON: So is the motion to approve?
MAYOR DICKEY: No, the motion is to call for the question. We have a motion to call for
the question, which means we need five people to vote yes. And then we have the vote
on the motion.
ARNSON: Yeah. If you call for the question, two-thirds of the council are saying I'm
done with discussion. I want to cut off debate and I want to vote on the main motion.
So right now, if it's a call for the question, was there a second?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. Hannah was the second.
ARNSON: So it would just be --
MAYOR DICKEY: So all in favor --
ARNSON: -- yes, I want to vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: We're going to take a roll call vote on calling for the question, which
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means if you vote yes, you want to vote on the --
ARNSON: Underlying motion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Underlying motion. So roll call?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Explain my vote?
MAYOR DICKEY: No. Just vote.
SKILLICORN: I don't think we can. I know how I'm going to vote on this, but I also want
to reiterate, we can always amend something. If there's something we don't like about
it, we can always amend it down the road. So my vote is yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Well, I want to continue discussions, so I assume I would vote no. Okay.
I have to check with the town attorney on that one. Yeah, I'll vote no on this one.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZVBOWSKI: Yes. I'm ready to vote.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
ARNSON: So Mayor, the motion did carry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. The motion --
ARNSON: Did carry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. So we have enough votes to say were going to vote on the
motion, which was Hannah's motion, as understood. We all understand.
MCMAHON: I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry, what?
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MCMAHON: Is that on the whole?
MAYOR DICKEY: It's the entire thing, except she wanted to add back the traveling lights.
TOTH: Removing traveling -- well --
MAYOR DICKEY: We want to leave them in.
TOTH: Leave them in.
MAYOR DICKEY: And it also is instead of 20 apartments, it's 10. And there was one
other thing.
ARNSON: So--
GR2YBOWSKI: The banners.
MAYOR DICKEY: The banner thing, you can keep it for a year. Okay.
ARNSON: So Mayor and Council, if you are in support of Hannah's motion, vote yes. If
you are not in support of Hannah's motion, vote no.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
ARNSON: That's where we're at.
MAYOR DICKEY: Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: So we can always amend it down the road. So yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Explain my vote. I think it's really unfortunate that we can't have more
conversation and further amendments to this ordinance. I wish we could discuss what I
had discussed on Shea Boulevard, because I think a vote for yes on this is going to lead
to a lot of mischief. And I feel very passionate about this. On the other hand, there's so
much good in this ordinance for businessowners and for realtors that unfortunately, I'm
going to have to vote yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
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FRIEDEL: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Nay
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: No. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Passes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. We'II take a five minute recess or so. Thank you.
[Recess]
MAYOR DICKEY: We love our breaks. But we're back. Thank you.
Our next item is our intergovernmental agreement with Maricopa County for law
enforcement. Do we have any -- okay. David, thank you.
POCK: Good evening, Mayor, and Council. There isn't a presentation on this. I tried to
include as much background in the staff report as possible, so hopefully that answered
most of your questions. I will note, I was going back through this, we started preparing
for this about three years ago. So there's been a lot of people that have looked at our
contract, either through the contract review, looked at our law enforcement services
and the services that were provided by Matrix Consulting just about a year ago, or just
over a year ago is when we saw their report.
So tonight after extending the existing contract or the existing IGA for a year and a half
past its original expiration date, we're here for another IGA that will go until 2026, the
end of June 2026, with an optional three-year extension with the ability to extend that
as well.
So if the council has any questions, I'm here. Hopefully I can remember some of those
items from the last three years. I've got all kinds of notes and things that I've tried to
compile, so hopefully I can help. But that is it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. Do we have any speaker cards on this item?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. We have three speaker cards. And then -- we'll
start with Barry Wolborsky, and then on deck will be Kim Wolborsky.
BARRY WOLBORSKY: Barry Wolborsky, Fountain Hills. I'm beyond amazed at this
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contract has been brought before the council today. On page 14, there's the following
section, it's section II.B.4. "MCSO's failure to staff a contracted duty post for 60
consecutive days or more for any reason may result in an annual credit being applied to
the personnel services section of the next annual worksheet Exhibit A". Which means
they cannot give us people for 59 days, give us people for one day. So what that means
basically as I read this, and remember I'm the statistics guy, this only means that MCSO
has to fully man our sheriff's detachment six days a year. Okay? That's once every 59
days. And if that's not bad enough, they may be one deputy short, two deputy shorts or
more. We don't know, they didn't say. It's just if they do it for 60 days they get in
trouble.
Why in the world would anyone approve this contract at all? And especially given the
history of MCO and their staffing issues? This section definitely needs to be changed to
limit the number of days to less than ten, make the days not consecutive. After all, we
do pay for each day. Change the word "made" to "will". It says, by the way, "may", they
may pay after 60 days. It doesn't say they will.
Would anyone hire an employee that could be absent from work for 59 consecutive
days every two months? I very strongly urge the council to vote against this contract
until this section has been corrected. That's all.
KIM WOLBORSKY: Madame Mayor, council, everyone else. I'm Kim Wolborsky and I am
a resident of Fountain Hills. And first I have to apologize to Councilmember Friedel
because I forgot my canned goods. I do have them. I will bring them.
I'm speaking on the same issue that my husband spoke on, and I wasn't going to
because he was going to. But I had lunch with a couple of neighbors who don't attend
the council meeting today and I mentioned this issue to them. I explained it to them
and they were both so shocked with the whole thing of the 59 consecutive days. And
there is no limit on how many 59 consecutive days that this could -- or say it could be 45
days. What if they just don't staff for 45 days? Then they staff for a day? It's really
shocking you know. Barry and I have been coming to the council meetings for a while
and we've heard a lot of complaints about the contract. But actually the only
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complaints that I've mainly heard have been with the overall price and with the quantity
of deputies that we've had. I've heard no complaints about the quality of the deputies
or the service. Everyone's very happy with the people we have working for us. But this
has been the big issue, is the quantity of people we have and that we weren't getting
what we expected to get. And it was a big deal. And here's our new contract and it's
not addressed, and I just don't understand it. So I really hope that you can vote this
down, make an amendment, get it fixed. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Gene Slechta.
SLECHTA: The next item on the agenda. I don't (indiscernible) to speak.
MENDENHALL: 9B. Are you wanting to go to 9C?
SLECHTA: 9C.
MENDENHALL: Okay. And then in your packet you have 17 written comments. We also
have two people who wanted to voice their support in person but not speak on it. So
we have a total of 19 comment cards, and 19 for it and no people against it.
MCMAHON: I moved to adopt Resolution 2023-34.
MAYOR DICKEY: You can. Is there a second?
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. Okay. Councilman?
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor. I'm going to make a statement on this contract. I think
people know where I stand already on this contract. But with the recent developments
all over the world, we can all agree that we need public safety, and it's of the utmost
importance. That being said, I wish to make it clear that I'm not in favor of this contract
even though I'm going to vote yes for it. I don't think anything that was requested by
former Councilman Spelich and myself, that we worked on for over two years on this
contract, had been properly addressed in this contract. And I feel like I'm being held
hostage and that this contract is the reward at the tail end. So I will consider all options
in the future as a backup plan to this at some point in time. And I just want to make it
clear that I'm for public safety. I think the deputies in this town do a wonderful job for
this town. But I don't think that the issues that we had brought up and needed
env
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addressed in this contract were taken care of. Thank you, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: I just wanted to remind people that the motion may have been jumped
to very quickly. And you all need to know that this is a conversation that has been had
in executive session. And this is not something that we're just jumping to. So we, as
councilmembers, had an opportunity to discuss with each other and ask questions
whether it be of our attorney or of the MCSO. This is jumping into a motion did not
mean we didn't review this and did not already have a chance to discuss it. Thanks for
that opportunity. I just wanted to make sure people understood that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. Just give me an opportunity to explain that when we make a
motion, we always have an -- that we can always talk as long as we want after one. So
there's no -- making motion doesn't prevent discussion. Yes, Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah, I tend to agree with Councilmember
Friedel. I think this contract could be a lot better. There's a lot of things in it that I don't
like. And what Mr. Wolborsky said tonight, I think are all fair statements about this
contract. But what people have to understand at this point is, if we don't approve this
contract tonight, we might not have public safety on January 1st. And so it's imperative
that we pass this tonight. It's gone through quite a process, a number of meetings, a
number of executive sessions, had our lawyers look at it, our manager look at it. And it's
I guess, what I can just say, is the best that we could do. It does leave room for
improvement, but I'll vote yes for it because it's got to be done.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: I'd like to echo the comments of Councilmember Friedel. The contract itself,
there's a lot of areas that I would have wished we could have had a fair negotiation on.
However, the reality is, is that this is the contract that we have and with having started
the Fountain Hills Fire Department, which is so exciting, we're not in a financial position
to look at those alternate options at the moment. I do wish to consider these options in
the future. And I would encourage my fellow councilmembers to look into, possibly, an
exploratory committee or something to look into what we could do in the future.
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However, for this contract, I'll be voting yes as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Oh, Councilman?
SKILLICORN: You can go ahead.
MAYOR DICKEY: No, that's okay.
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, thank you. Well, first off, I do want to thank town
manager, finance director, for negotiating this. This was a difficult thing. I know it took
a long time. And when any contract, if there isn't pain on both sides, it's not a very good
contract. So that's also to be considered. Of course, there's some things that we don't
like about this. But again, that's part of negotiation. There is a caveat I had, but I also
wanted to see maybe we could ask the attorney a little bit about that. The concern of
the 59 days of consecutive staffing, you know, I'm not sure there's so much we can do
about that. I mean, theoretically, we could do an amendment. It does appear that we
might have representatives from the MCSO here. I don't know if they would be
amendable to addressing that.
ARNSON: Yeah. Mayor and councilmember, they are not amenable to -- I think we can
very safely say that we've had represented to us from County Administration that no
further amendments will be entertained on their end. The original length of time was
substantially longer. This is the negotiated down number.
SKILLICORN: Okay. So thank you for negotiating that down. We very much appreciate
that, and again, that's part of the pain. And there is a caveat that I have and that is the
staffing number. I would prefer it to have more staffing. Now, I've been told that the
County does not have the manpower to produce the staffing numbers I'd like, but this is
also a question maybe for the council, is this doesn't preclude us for-- let's say the
County has new recruits and there could be a possibility we could pay more for having
one or two more deputies, I assume. This, as it's written out, doesn't mean that at six
months from now or a year from now, we go, hey, there's more recruits. We can pay
more and we can get more deputies. In approving this tonight, and especially with this
caveat being on a public record, that isn't a problem for us; correct?
ARNSON: Mayor and Council, that's not an issue. Assuming that they have the ability to
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staff those individuals at some point in the future. If we wanted to up staff here, I'm
sure that's something we can approach the County about. I can't see why they would
object to that. Rachael do you think --
SKILLICORN: All right. Thank you. And that's really my big caveat. I think the number of
deputies is too low. I do not want to scrimp on public safety. And frankly, if I had to pay
for another deputy, obviously, it would be the salary and whatever costs go along with
that, I'm happy paying for that because I want to make sure our town is protected. So
with that caveat on the record, I can support that. And there is obviously pain for
everyone involved.
MAYOR DICKEY: Much as I'm loathe to bring this up again because we've been talking
about it for a long, long time. We had a Matrix report, we had an audit done that we
paid for, and they recommended even less than we're getting. And many, many of the
conversations that I had of the items that we wanted are included here; most of them
are. So that to me -- this was negotiated in good faith. We've got one of the safest zip
codes in the Valley, and we have the least per capita, except maybe Carefree now or
Cave Creek. And if we did what Queen Creek did, we would be spending north of $14
million a year, not to mention the 4 and a half to 5 million to get started. And to say
that this is the best we can get. I'm sorry, but you can't point to somebody and just
disparage where they work and who's been keeping us safe for 20 years, more probably,
and act like we're down in the dumps about this thing. This is a very good contract and
we can always speak. They are law enforcement experts, and I'm not going to second
guess law enforcement experts by sitting here as a citizen. But I did listen and take a lot
of advice and we took that to them, and that's reflected in this. And so I just -- I don't
like the idea that we're just taking something because we have to. It's a good -- they've
kept us safe for years. I've had people throw it back at me, oh, since you were mayor, it
went up this much. Well, we went back to 2004, and it's up and down the entire time,
based on what's going on; inflation, whatever. Just fill in the blank. So a fair
comparison would be to go back to 2004 and see how long and how well they've been
keeping us safe. And we thank you for that. Any further comments?
NAM
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FRIEDEL: Mayor, 1 have a comment.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, Councilman?
FRIEDEL: I don't think we're disparaging anybody. This isn't personal. This is a business
decision for this town. It's not disparaging anybody, and if anybody mistook that as
disparaging somebody, I apologize for my comments. But it's not a personal attack. It's
not disparaging anybody.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any further discussion? Okay. Can we have a roll call, please? Oh, do
we have a -- we already had a motion.
MENDENHALL: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Okay. Vep. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Yes. Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Thank you for keeping us safe. Yes.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Our next item is a resolution. Who's going to introduce this? Aaron or Rachael?
GOODWIN: So again, this is the result of a request put forward by Councilmember
Skillicorn, wanting to discuss and review a recent resolution that was adopted with the
Town of Queen Creek, for discussion and possible consideration here within Fountain
Hills. With that, I'm going to turn it over to Councilmember.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Well, since we don't have a further presentation, do we have any
speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, we do. First is Stephen Gay. And on deck is Cindy Couture.
GAY: Good evening. The first paragraph of this COVID restrictions agenda item states
that our rights and liberties are enshrined in the Constitution and then adds that these
same rights and liberties are endowed or given to us by God and/or the Creator. I agree
with the first statement. Our rights in this country are established by the Constitution,
which majestically opens with, "We, the People", and not, "Please, dear God in heaven".
We are ruled by the Constitution and not the Declaration of Independence where we do
find references to nature's God, rights endowed by their Creator, and Divine Providence.
God is never mentioned in the Constitution except in an exclusionary manner. The
prohibition against religious tests for holding public office and the First Amendment's
prohibition regarding the establishment of religion specifically excludes any binding
involvement with a deity. Because we are ruled by the Constitution, the Supreme Court
uses the Constitution and not the Declaration of Independence to issue its decisions. As
such, the Constitution is the ultimate lawgiver in this country, not God or His dictates in
Leviticus. Since the resolution's author mentioned that these rights are endowed by
God, I'd like to ask what rights he thinks are given by God to our lesbian, gay, bisexual,
transgender, and queer citizens here in Fountain Hills? I was reading opinions by some
prominent Christian writers and organizations on this topic, including God's own
mandates on homosexuality in his own Bible. And let's just say it's slim pickings for our
LGBTQ brothers and sisters. I doubt drag queens fare any better in the "rights endowed
by the Creator" lottery. So when we start talking about which bathrooms both children
and adults can use in public buildings, are we going with the rights given by God to
LGBTQ citizens, or are we going with what we, the people, decide after open discussion
and a vote by accountable elected representatives? If we decide that God endowed no
rights to LGBTQ people, we may get more incidents like the one in Wadsworth, Ohio, in
March 13th of this year, when an LGBTQ youth center held their annual drag brunch. A
determined group of Nazis associated with the blood tribe chanted loudly, "No
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transgenders on our streets". Yeah. Sorry. Thanks. I appreciate it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
GAY: Thank you.
COUTURE: Cindy Couture, Fountain Hills resident. 1 want you up there to pretend it's
2018. Did any of you predict the COVID pandemic would occur in 2018? Did you know
what was going to happen? When COVID was going to come? None of us did. No one
can predict what health or safety crisis will arrive in the future. With this in mind, I ask
you to vote against this resolution. You'd be tying the hands of future town council
members to act for the safety of our townspeople. Health decisions should be made
and mandated by those with medical degrees. During COVID, the county and the states
health departments mandated the actions needed to keep our citizens safe. Our town
followed those mandates. Don't tie the hands of our future town officials. Don't set up
our town for legal costs if this new resolution causes us to go against future state or
county mandates. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next, we have Gene Slechta. And then on deck is Linda Somo.
SLECHTA: Gene Slechta. Mayor, thank you. You must reject this dangerous and
insulting proposal to adopt an anything goes approach on masks and vaccinations in our
community -wide health. The most important responsibility of government is to keep us
safe. We have speed limits in town and stoplights and seat belt laws to protect all of us.
We just do not leave that up to the individual. And we have requirements to vaccinate
our children prior to registering for schools to protect them all. We do not leave those
decisions up to individuals. These are just some examples of what we call the common
good. Without government and the professional advice and the medical community, we
have anarchy. Without the professional advice and services and government at all
levels, we would not have had COVID vaccines developed and implementation
strategies that saved, conservatively, 20 million lives worldwide, and two to three
million American lives. Millions more avoided hospitalization and long-term health
issues. Mask usage protected millions as well. Were there unintended consequences?
Of course. However, nobody should be questioning the results or rewriting history on
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this. Or worse yet, nobody should be trying to make a name for themselves or create
division. And by the way, why are we revisiting a past pandemic anyway? They only
come every hundred years. The vast majority of Americans have had enough
vaccinations and boosters to protect our nation from having to implement the tough
measures we had to endure. What do we do about X, V, Z virus or ABC or Bacteria 123,
when they arrive? Do we have resolutions for those too? This is silly to promote health
anarchy. Leave the research and advice to the professionals, the experts, and not to the
individuals. Let government and experts handle these decisions. Don't tie our hands.
Reject this resolution. Thank you.
SOMO: Linda Somo, resident. I don't have anything to add to the last two speakers
except that in 2020, I was a 75-year-old woman who was petrified of catching COVID.
And like many others, the only defense I had was a mask, prior to the mass production
of the vaccines. We can't possibly predict what will happen in the future. We don't
want to tie the hands of the people who actually can try to keep us safe, at least. There
may be mandates again in the future. I hope not. But if there are, it would help me if
people would obey them. So if you're trying to tie the hands of a future city council or
trying to deny the scientific community, we lost a million people here in the States due
to COVID. Do we want to say that's not important? Do we want to say, well, you know,
because people were uncomfortable with masks or vaccines, we shouldn't ever require
that again? We need to do whatever is necessary to protect people. And I hope that
you will not adopt this resolution. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: That's it for speaker cards. But in your packet, you had 23 written
statements and 18 were against it and 4 were for. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I would like to make a motion to move that agenda item 9C be tabled.
COVID is not at issue. It was a past occurrence. In addition, our AZ legislature has
already addressed this matter by statute. Government entities cannot require COVID
face masks of government employees, nor can a government entity require Arizona
residents to be vaccinated. Accordingly, this is a moot subject. And I request that it be
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•
tabled. Excuse me. I move that it be tabled. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second?
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Now, again, when something's tabled, do you discuss it? No.
ARNSON: Mayor, the rule says that the motion to table shall not be debatable and shall
preclude all amendments or debate of the subject under consideration.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thanks. So we can --
KALIVIANAKIS: We can't debate the motion to table? Certainly we can debate the main
motion.
ARNSON: After we vote on it.
ARNSON: After we vote on the motion to table. Correct.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay.
ARNSON: And if the motion to table passes, then obviously there is no debate to be
had. But if it fails, then clearly there will be further discussion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Motion to table due to state statute. Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye.
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Okay. So we will debate the item. Anybody want to start off?
GRZYBOWSKI: I'd like to.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. I'm sorry. Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: Sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. It came up first.
GRZYBOWSKI: The first thing I want to mention is in the very first paragraph, it
discusses God and/or the Creator. The verbiage brags on trusting residents in their
personal choices. Not everybody believes in a higher being. So why we felt the need to
put this in there other than whatever other town did, I don't get it. We have quite a few
people in this town that are either agnostic or atheist. I'm going to tell you I actually
used to be agnostic until I ran for office the first time in 2018. Now I realized I'm
actually an atheist. We do not know what the future holds. Recently we had a
presentation, a really good presentation, on emergency preparedness. It is unfair for us
to limit the resources of our first emergency responders and our future town councils.
What happens if there is a large fire in town or at the landfill? Worldwide epidemics
and pandemics happen, like the 1855 bubonic plague, or the 1918 H1N1 flu. Our
concern as a council should be first and foremost for the health and safety of our
residents. We have no way of predicting the future. By putting this into place, we are
taking away one of the resources that we have to help with our health and safety of our
residents. The only thing I appreciate about this document is four times the phrase
"personal responsibility" is mentioned. I appreciate that you know that I know what's
best far my body, but that's the only thing that I've got in this document that I approve
of. Thank you.
MCMAHON: Thank you, Vice Mayor. I agree with you. And again, this is not a current
issue. It's not an emergency matter. It's a very presumptuous and overbroad and
overreaching proposed ordinance. It's mandating that mayor and council not act
reasonably to protect our community in a crisis. Vet per our oath of office and our
council duties and obligations, this is one of our primary responsibilities to our town and
to ourselves. You can't have it both ways. This cancels itself out and is really useless. In
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fact, if you look at the second "Whereas", it states the government, our town,
responsibly planned and took measures to prevent the spread of COVID and
appropriately prepared for needed emergency actions in response to the spread of
COVID, without infringing on the rights and liberties of our citizens. Again, this
ordinance contradicts that very statement in it. Also the federal government, the
governor, and Maricopa County Department of Health collectively directed and set
parameters when COVID masks were required and did not mandate private citizens to
be vaccinated; it wasn't the town. These facts, coupled with the current Arizona
statutes addressing COVID masks and vaccines, shows that there is absolutely no need
for this ordinance and is basically moot by its own language. And accordingly, I make a
motion to not adopt Resolution 2023-35 in its entirety.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is there a second? Sorry. Is there a second on the motion to --
GRZYBOWSKI: 5o she just made a motion to deny it? Is that what I understood?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. I would like some discussion before we go
to a vote. It's been said tonight, why are we revisiting this? This happened a couple of
years ago. Well, because that's how you learn. You make mistakes and you learn from
your mistakes. Had we not gone back and looked at how we do things and we just keep
going forward, we'd be like animals. We're not animals. We're rational people. And we
look at the mistakes that have been made and we learn from those mistakes. George
Santayana, a professor of philosophy at Harvard, said, "Those that do not learn from
history are doomed to repeat it". Humorist and writer, Mark Twain, famously said in the
matter, "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme". If that's true, then these
sayings ought to guide, not only our public, but our private policy.
When COVID first came, the President of the United States at that time went to get a
vaccination. He boasted that this is going to be the fastest vaccination in the history of
this country. And he was right. They didn't take precautions. They didn't do the normal
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clinical trials. They didn't take all the normal protocols and procedures that you would
to pass a vaccination. And so they hurriedly put this vaccination together. They got
together with the drug companies and they said, we're going to waive any liability for all
the damage that this experimental vaccination is going to do.
And yes, it was an experimental vaccination that they forced us to take as a member of
the United States Coast Guard Auxiliary. They came knocking on my door and they said,
you're going to get vaccinated, otherwise you're going to have to stand down. And I
said, I will stand down, sir, okay? Because I am not going to take this vaccination. If you
look at the masks, it's like trying to prevent mosquitoes from biting you by putting up a
chain link fence. Cloth masks do not work to prevent a virus. It's simply ridiculous.
When they say we should be following the science, well, what science are we talking
about? Because when it seemed to me that this, again, was a politically charged issue
where they forced this on us, they took the licenses of doctors that disagreed, doctors
that prescribed hydrocodone or whatever, Hydroxychloroquine, lost their medical
license. They lost their jobs. The WHO and the CDC and the President of the United
States got it wrong. And we made a lot of mistakes. I have never seen a time in the
history of my life when football players and soccer players drop dead on the field of play
because of myocarditis, which is exactly what's been going on.
And if you look at the research, it shows to me that there may have been more deaths
as a result of taking the vaccinations than of getting the COVID virus itself. And so I am
glad that Councilmember Skillicorn has put this on there, and I think other towns and
cities around the state should do the same thing. Because we have to learn from our
mistakes. I'm not going to stand in the line and get a forced vaccination by an
oppressive government. I am not going to wear a mask of obedience by an oppressive
government. And so when Allen talks about personal responsibility, that's the key. And
so I'm proud to vote for this ordinance. Thank you for putting it on, Allen. And that's all
I have to say.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: That's a hard one to follow. That was beautiful. So this resolution, I can
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understand the argument of whether or not it was relevant to have on the agenda. But
here it is. And where my opinion lies, and where it will always lie, is that a person's
freedoms come first. We don't know what will happen in the future. We don't know if
there will be another COVID, a new thing, but your freedoms don't change.
The people who wrote the Constitution, they did not know what the future was going to
hold. But your right to make the decisions for your own body and what you're putting in
it does not go away. And when we talk about a mask, that is a -- that's a device that you
choose to wear or you don't choose to wear. I chose not to wear it because I was born
two months preemie. I had double pneumonia at one point, as a baby. I have very
unhealthy lungs. That's something that is restricting my breathing. And my personal
family doctor -- I don't know where he lies politically and I don't care. I know that he
said I should not be wearing a mask. That was not a decision I made on a political level.
And I don't want that choice taken away from me. I don't want that choice taken away
from you. You know your body, your doctor knows your body, I don't know your body. I
don't get to tell you what to do, and neither does a future council.
If you believe that a mask helps you and that it's more important, wear a mask. If you
believe the vaccine works, get the vaccine. I don't want to stop you from that either.
But don't try to make me do it.
MCMAHON: Again, we have an obligation under oath and as our duties to protect the
health and welfare of our community. And to sit here and mandate things in here that
ties our hands of that, is so contradictory and cancels out itself. To sit here and say that
we know, and future councilmembers know certain things is ridiculous. We don't know
everybody's personal convictions, et cetera. And frankly we don't want to. It's none of
our business and it's none of your business what your personal conviction is.
So to sit here and have, whereas required mandates that we know and future
councilmembers are going to know something. I can't attest to that. I can't agree with
it because, like you say, things change every single day. Facts change every single day.
We don't know. We don't know what the future's going to hold. I can't abide by this. I
can't mandate tying the council's hands to act on behalf of the health and welfare of our
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town.
COVID's past, doctors and pharmacists have even said they treat it like the flu today,
that the vaccines are going to be available, they're not required. They're going to be
available just like flu shots. And again, there are two Arizona statutes that prevent the
requirement of mandating COVID masks and mandating that people get vaccinated.
So to me, this is not just about COVID. It's overreaching. It's tying our hands from acting
on the behalf of our community and dereliction of our duties and should not be
enacted.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Toth?
TOTH: I'd like to make one final comment. I could not disagree more on the comment
that it is overreaching. Overreaching is requiring residents to wear a mask or get a
vaccine or to not wear a mask or to not get a vaccine. That's overreach. Government
overreach is when I'm reaching into your life, when it's not my business. Overreach is
not restricting me from doing so. That goes completely against the definition of the
term.
MCMAHON: I disagree. Again, we have statutes in place that don't allow this to
happen. And again, it's preventing us from doing our job. You took an oath to do a job
and now you're mandating not doing that job. It doesn't make sense. It's nonsensical.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I do want to point out that if facts change
every day, then they aren't facts. It is interesting that we had a motion to table. That
motion was denied. Now we're going to have a motion that we're going to vote on
about denying. I suspect that that's going to fail. And then after that, we're going to
have yet another motion. So why don't we just go ahead and have a roll call?
MAYOR DICKEY: I'd like an opportunity to speak, and anyway we won't have to do it
again. I don't think if the motion to -- if the motion to fail, I mean --
ARNSON: There's been a motion to approve.
MAYOR DICKEY: A motion, if it fails, then it's approved. So we don't have to do it again.
SKILLICORN: So we'll have a motion to approve. It sounded --
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MAYOR DICKEY: We won't need one. Let's put it that way. So number 5 says the
Fountain Hills Town council recommends its citizens and the general public exercise
personal responsibility. Then it says, but the council commits to not implementing
measures such as mask mandates, business closures, vaccination requirements,
curfews, or any similar measures. So this particular part doesn't say anything about
COVID. And then with the -- or any similar measure, it's really not specific. Business
closures, like we had talked about, that came from the state and such.
But I know like during COVID, let's just use that as an example, when -- if people wanted
to have a party and they wanted to get together at the community center. So basically
this is saying we wouldn't have a right to say they couldn't have their party. And there's
no doubt that when people got together during COVID, people died afterwards. And we
all have our personal things that happened and family members that got very, very ill
and children and babies and all of those things that were going on. And you're darn
right I got the vaccine. Nobody made me get it, but I got it. There are certain things
that you do for your own entity or whatever, you make your own decisions.
I mean, does that consider being pro -choice, too? I mean, what you said was almost a
quote that anybody could use for being able to control your whole body. And parts of
this sound very similar to that. So that's just neither here nor there for this. But I'm just
saying it's a very similar argument that we hear about a lot of different things, birth
control, and what have you.
Anyway. I don't know why we would ever give up, as an elected body, our vote to take
away our own ability to make decisions in the future, because that's what we're doing.
We're basically saying that we or any future mayor or any future council will not be
thoughtful enough to act in the way that the beginning of this ordinance says we did,
which we didn't mandate anything, we followed orders. But we didn't mandate
anything at the time. So you're basically saying we will not -- you can't trust ourselves or
any future mayors to govern thoughtfully. I don't know why we would undermine
police and fire or health professionals. We talk about opinions that these things
weren't -- these decisions weren't made on opinions they were made on -- and yes,
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sometimes you do learn things and facts can change. But this is talking about something
in the future. So maybe COVID, someone will say, you know, two or three things could
have gone differently, but that vaccine saved lives. And I don't understand why we
would vote to take away our own ability to govern in the future or future mayors.
Yes, Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I would like very much to address your previous
comment. The reason that it is different than the pro -choice conversation is that the
pro -choice conversation is giving you the ability to choose this medical procedure. I'm
not going to go into the abortion argument. However, the difference here is me saying
that you have to have a medical procedure, that you have to have a vaccine, that you
have to be wearing a mask. That is me forcing something onto you. And when we talk
about the pro -life argument, this is me saying that you can't do something.
If that belief is that you're ending the human life, then that would be where that pro -life
argument comes into play. When we're talking about COVID, this is not me saying that
you can't wear a mask, that you can't get a vaccine. This is me saying that you can't
force someone to wear a mask or get a vaccine. And why we would give up that right as
a government is because it's the right thing to do.
MCMAHON: We don't have that right because the statute preempts us from doing that.
So we don't have that right. So why don't you read the statute? The statute specifically
states that we can't do that, period. This is not necessary. In addition, in section 5, it
says we can't take emergency measures. The fire department can. If there's a fire, they
can evacuate. So can the police department, if they're SWAT. You know why? It's
within their powers and job duties to do so. So is ours. To put in section 5, at a
minimum, and say that measures such as masks, business closures, curfews, or similar
measures. Why are we preventing ourselves from acting reasonably like we did in the
second "Whereas" in here and implementing for the safety and recognizing the safety
that we need for our community. It doesn't work both ways. You can't have it both
ways. It contradicts itself.
TOTH: I actually do agree with Councilmember McMahon on that, that the second
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whereas is contradictory. And so once we voted on the motion to deny, if it is to fail, I'd
like to encourage my fellow councilmembers to maybe consider striking that second,
whereas.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Let's just vote on it. A roll call to — oh.
SKILLICORN: If you don't mind, Madam Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
SKILLICORN: I do want to bring up our pilot friend brought up the beginning of the
Constitution in the United States, and that starts with "We, the People". And this is
about personal responsibility. And I prefer to give this power back to the people. So I
don't think it's the proper role of government for politicians or bureaucrats or whoever
to mandate masks. I don't think it's the proper role of government to close down
businesses. I don't think it's the proper role of government to force someone to take a
jab. And I certainly don't think it's the proper role of government to force curfews on
the people. Let's give this power back to the people. And that's all I have to say.
MCMAHON: It was never taken away from them.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, and this discussion proves why having this on the agenda was
just like, why are we talking about COVID? Why are we talking about governments
doing things to our bodies, which, you know, either way, I don't know why. But let's just
take the vote. Vote to deny it.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: No. Right? Voting to deny? No.
ARNSON: Wait a minute. Say again?
TOTH: Voting not to deny. Right?
GRZYBOWSKI: You're right. You voted no.
TOTH: Okay.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No. And I want to remind that this council in June of 2020 voted against
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mask mandates, but one person at this dais imposed them on everyone without a vote.
MAYOR DICKEY: Huh?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
MAYOR DICKEY: That's not true. What are you talking about?
KALIVIANAKIS: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: I vote to not adopt the resolution.
MAYOR DICKEY: So it's a yes.
MENDENHALL: So it's a yes.
KALIVIANAKIS: It's a yes.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: I also vote yes. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: 'Mayor Dicke?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes. So Aaron, if Hannah wants to change it, then she can make a --
can she make a motion for approval without the part that says that we did the right
thing in 2020?
ARNSON: Mayor and Council. Yes, she could make a motion to approve with the
exception of striking the second recital.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
ARNSON: You make that motion? Yeah. Okay.
MCMAHON: Can we vote on it?
ARNSON: Well, we need a second.
SKILLICORN: In section 2?
TOTH: Yes.
ARNSON: The second whereas. The second --
TOTH: The one that would contradict your argument.
MAYOR DICKEY: The one that acknowledges that we did it right in 2020.
KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to just make a motion to pass the resolution 2023-35.
SKILLICORN: Second.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Well, Hannah already.
KALIVIANAKIS: I did (indiscernible).
ARNSON: We need a second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. All right. Okay. Roll call, please?
MCMAHON: What are we voting on?
MAYOR DICKEY: Passing it.
MCMAHON: I thought we passed it?
GRZYBOWSKI: As written.
MCMAHON: We didn't pass it?
ARNSON: Right. So now --
MAYOR DICKEY: So now I guess you don't have to vote.
MCMAHON: Yeah. They don't have to. There's no point -- there's no second.
SKILLICORN: It still needs an affirmative vote.
ARNSON: 1 don't think it means you automatically adopt it just because it's denied. I
think you need to affirmatively vote for it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Now, let's just do that.
ARNSON: Yeah.
MENDENHALL: Okay. lust clarification. The motion was from?
FRIEDEL: Brenda. As written.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Okay.
FRIEDEL: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Okay. Yes.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yes. The motion was --
MENDENHALL: And then you -- and Councilmember Skillicorn second. Okay.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible) three guys at a time.
MENDENHALL: Okay.
MCMAHON: It got a second?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes.
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MENDENHALL: All right. Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: No.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Nay.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: No. Thank you.
Our next item is an update for the payment analysis from Justin. Thank you.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, thanks for staying late for us. Back in June
the staff brought forward not only the payment analysis, but also a report from the
citizen's advisory committee on streets. During that time frame and that meeting that
night, you were given a report about the current conditions and the future, and how
that looked with different funding scenarios.
Each one of them basically stated that we currently are not budgeting enough money.
The street's advisory committee basically said the same thing but had some different
options. When we went into the regular session, I brought forward a contract and that
contract was to approve an amendment to the M.R. Tanner, to spend the first half of
the federal funding in this year. I did note, as part of that, that the geotechnical report
was not done at that time. And we're going to get to that here very shortly. But the
first thing that we're going to cover is the upcoming pavement schedule.
As you can see from this first map right here, which is Kiwanis, Enterprise, Colony in that
area, which is the business district or one of several. The first phase of this is going to
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be starting in the end of November, after Thanksgiving, and ending just before the next
holiday. There are several reasons behind that, and we're going to get to one that's
quite challenging. There is simply no convenient time for this type of construction,
regardless of when you have the funds available or the materials or the staffing. There
are going to be some improvement challenges. These challenges are going to be slightly
different from some we've encountered in the past because we're going to be removing
the road to a depth of approximately one foot and replacing it. During that time frame,
some of these driveways will be in accessible for a period of time. That creates
challenges, especially in these types of areas, for us to assume that we are going to stop
just after lunch each day and establish access to all of the driveways is not reasonable or
realistic, nor is it affordable.
There are a couple of things I'm going to ask of tonight. One of them is that you bear
with us and I'll take the brunt of this. Rest assured, my phone doesn't go off and we will
do our best to make all of the most reasonable accommodations necessary. The second
one, and this one is going to be really unpopular. With little to no exception, the Town
of Fountain Hills is a little bit unique. When paving operations are underway, regardless
of the type of treatment, when a motorist disobeys all of the warnings, the signs, the
flaggers, and even police officers chasing them and they drive into these improvements
and do damage, the Town of Fountain Hills is the only one that requires staff to write an
apology to that driver for their actions and also requires the contractor to pay for the
damage that was done. This creates a challenge. And so I'm going to ask you to think
about that without any obligation tonight. But we are going to be facing that type of
challenge here, rest assured.
This is the next one and this is considerably further out. The reason for that is skipping
over the end of the year and the holiday season, and then were going to jump right
back into this on January 15th. Now we're moving into some residential areas. These
roads are considerably narrower than the ones along Colony and Enterprise, but
nonetheless, they're going to be some improvement challenges and pains in regards to
growing in this area too. Once again, we will do all we can to minimize the disruptions
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and the disruptions to the residents. Bottom line is, it's still going to happen, simply
because we're not just painting the road or putting a topcoat on it but removing it and
replacing it.
FRIEDEL: Will this be one foot depth too?
WELDY: Madam Mayor. Yes, Councilmember. So the cross-section, which we'll get to
on the end of this, and we're going to be making a recommendation as part of this
tonight, the town engineer and myself. Is -- it's going to be basically three inches of
asphalt with five inches of select material under that. So in order to get to that point,
we're going to have to remove a little bit of the existing subgrade and grade it and
subcompact it, then come back in with the select materials. 12 inches is about an
average, if you would.
This phase right here is scheduled to end just before Valentine's Day. Again, some of
this seems like in the beginning, we're obviously working around some major holidays.
The next part of that is really driven by the availability of the materials and the staffing
to accomplish this. For this type of work, M. R. Tanner, which has been doing this for
50-plus years, that type of contractor's in demand. And so they're squeezing us in every
opportunity they get.
This is the third phase. The one on the left, which is Firebrick, is in the southeast corner
of town, just south of Shea. Not a lot of challenges there. There are a couple of
driveways that will create some problems. But for the majority of the rest of them,
there are other ways around for them to get to their home. I cannot say the same for
the one on the right. This is an exceptionally long road and a lot of driveways are going
to be impacted here. This one is in, obviously, between February 19th and March 22nd,
the phone is going to be ringing, emails are going to be coming in. Not only myself, but
the street superintendent and the town engineer and assistant engineer, all hands on
deck. We're going to be doing all we can. But again, we're going to have some
improvement challenges here that come with some growing pains.
This perhaps is going to be one of the less challenging longer ones. The primary reason
for that is there's a few sections of this that we have an opportunity to do to our people.
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This is on Panorama around the back of the park and the lake. And also this area right
here, we close several times a year for different types of special events. You'll note that
the activity taking place here and the time frame is minimizing the disruption to those
activities. They're a big part of this community, from the Turkey Trot to other events
that are held by applicants for special events. This one will be a little Tess challenging,
but nonetheless there will be some challenges for the section that's closer to Saguaro on
the southern end. We're looking at possibly being able to do half at a time because it's
about 60 feet wide there. If we can work that out safely and maintain access, we will
certainly look at that.
Lastly, on behalf of the town engineer and myself, there's a geotechnical report that was
attached to my staff report, and I have the entire thing here, if you'd like to go through
it. It's 77 pages. I've highlighted some key areas in it. What we're recommending in
early next calendar year, we're going to be bringing back to you a proposal to amend the
subdivision standard. Currently, the standard is two inches of asphalt for our, what we
refer to as local streets. That is not adequate for a couple of reasons. One, it's just too
thin. And two, in 15 or 20 years or depending on the type of treatment, maybe 20 years
later, when you come back to mill it, milling an inch and a half is very challenging. But if
you're three inches thick, taking an inch and a half or an inch and three-quarter or two,
leaves you a stable base. And that allows you to prolong the life of not only the
remaining asphalt, but the new asphalt you're putting on top of it. Again, this will be an
amendment to the subdivision ordinance. That is all I have for the slides.
I'll go backwards so we can look at the first one. In regards to this report. And I think
that this is an important. I've highlighted a section here and it's on page 6. This is a
summary of what was discovered with the geotechnical report. For those of you that
have an opportunity to see this, on the right hand column is an indication of what lies
underneath this very thin section of asphalt. You'll note that there's only one, two,
three, four, five journal entries for about 25 lines. That means there's nothing under
there. They go on in their report, to state that the roads that they tested, including
primarily the local roads and some of the arterials and collectors that the pre -
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incorporation cross section did not meet Maricopa County Department of
Transportation standards at that time, and they've never met the Town of Fountain Hills
adopted subdivision standards. That's what's encouraging us to change our paving
profile and our overall cross section.
Do you have any questions in regards to some of the items that I brought up here?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Director, actually, you have that slide showing
right now. Just a couple of really quick questions. Is the one on Quantas? Does that all
go all the way across El Lago to the Veterans Memorial or does it just stop there at El
Lago?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, that stops at El Lago.
SKILLICORN: Okay. That's a good clarification. And then you mentioned kind of
cryptically, something unpleasant that we'd have to deal with people and I don' t know
if it's about damage to cars or something. Would you mind just explaining that and
being a little more specific?
WELDY: Speaking on behalf of myself and my experiences over the last 17 years as a
member of this staff, whenever were out doing different types of treatment, we have
signs up that say, "Do not enter" or "Closed". We have flaggers. We have deputies out
there. We have staff contractors. Motorists have gone around all of those warnings
and driven through this stuff up to their house, into their garage across their driveway.
As a result of that, there are a minimum of two tracks down this that now have to be
repaired and then into the driveway and up into the garage. They become enraged.
They contact management and elected officials historically, with little to no exception,
the outcome of that is someone like myself or the town manager issues an apology that
that happened to that motorist. And then we direct the contractor to not only make the
repairs to the damaged asphalt or slurry seal, but also clean the driveway, the garage,
and pay to have the car cleaned.
KALIVIANAKIS: Oh, boy.
MAYOR DICKEY: Brenda?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Is this codified in our town code, or is this just
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standard operating procedure as you've experienced it in the past?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember. I'm not aware of any mandate that requires
us to pay for someone else's poor decisions in anything that we have adopted.
KALIVIANAKIS: So we do it voluntarily?
WELDY: I do it under direction.
KALIVIANAKIS: Under direction. Okay. Good to know. And then there's one more
thing, if I could? I think it's great we're doing Panorama Drive, El Lago, and you
mentioned the Turkey Trot, which is coming up. And I have had constituents give me
some concern over the potholes and the Turkey Trot route. Is there any way we could
do some patches or something before November? So we can make that more safe for
the drivers?
SKILLICORN: Which (indiscernible).
KALIVIANAKIS: lust someone out there. It's someone my constituents know.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember. We already have that location. And just for
the record, prior to the special events, we, not only town staff but our contractors, we
go out and identify what I'm going to refer to as hazards. It may or may not be a
pothole, it may be tree branches, and we do our best to address that. The community
services director is directly included in that because some of those trees may or may not
be in one of our prized parks. So we certainly will address it and we'll do that one as
well.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you.
WELDY: You're welcome.
SKILLICORN: Madam -- and I just a quick follow-up. I think that our staff are excellent,
the person that does press releases and social media. The elected officials, the
newspaper, our neighbors will do a very good job communicating that. We probably
shouldn't go around barricades and stuff, and occasionally it could happen. But because
we're going to do such a great job communicating that this is going on and people in our
town are calling out for these repairs. And even though it's so inconvenient and I
understand that I have a feeling we have better compliance than normal. And if their
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compliance still fails, boo-hoo. So and then the last thing is that there was the -- would
you mind just briefly scrolling through the slides of what's going to be repaired? Go to
the next one, please. And one more. Okay. That answered my question.
MAYOR DICKEY: Rachael.
GOODWIN: I just wanted to chime in on two comments. One was Justin's update on his
previous direction on how those types of incidents have been handled in the past. I
want to clarify. That was previous direction, and I believe we will be moving in a
different way this time. Secondly, to the point of Councilmember Skillicorn, we do do
extensive public awareness up to — and I'm going to ask Justin if you can clarify notice
into individual homeowners; is that correct?
WELDY: There will be three notices in advance. There'll be one two to three weeks in
advance, and then one two weeks, and then one the week of. Not to mention there will
be large black on orange signs going up on each of these, identifying that the work is
coming and the dates. So in regards to notification, we, because it not everyone uses
their front door, we also put one on the garage door and we tape one to the side of the
mailbox. Because using the mailbox is not allowed. But we tape them to the side. It'll
also be on the town's website. And obviously for the people that are watching here
tonight and the conversations that'll take place over the next several weeks, they'll be
an opportunity for lots of people to become aware of this.
Lastly, last summer when we presented all of this information, we indicated that we
would be coming back and seeking direction for the future. So we are currently
scheduled to spend approximately half of that federal funding this year. Immediately
next year, based on the analysis and the roads selected, we will spend the balance of
that federal funding. Then we will be back to the limited amount of funding allocated by
the state, which has remained flat for several years, and the allocation granted by the
Mayor and Council. The town manager and I have had several discussions related to
this and we would like to at least get some sort of consensus for the many retreat
corning up and see whether or not you would like to allot 30 minutes, two hours, a day
and a half to discuss the possible funding scenarios for the future. Because before we
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know it, it's going to be here and we're going to be having those tough discussions again
with limited funding.
I appreciate the opportunity to share this with you tonight and ask for your guidance. If
there are any additional questions or comments related to that, I'll be happy to do the
best I can to answer them.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: Thank you very much for your presentation and your thoroughness. It's
really appreciated. It helped me better understand what's going on in town with the
streets today and the future. And I would also like to thank Jerry Butler for being part of
the Roads Committee. Your contributions are numerous, appreciated, and again, thank
you.
FRIEDEL: Can I ask a question?
MAYOR DICKEY: Sure.
FRIEDEL: So some of those pre -incorporated roads for the future, they'll be easier to
maintain because if we have to do a mill and overlay, then the base will be much better;
is that right?
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmember, that's correct. So basically, all the work that
we're doing and the previous work that we've done, obviously, we bring that up to the
subdivision standards, or in some cases we have slightly exceeded that because we are
well aware of the commercial traffic that utilizes that as what we refer to as a cut
through. So yes, it will be less expensive and they will last longer.
MAYOR DICKEY: Did we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Actually, you do have one in your packet that is for this item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Just a written statement.
MAYOR DICKEY: Who is it? No. So we'll go into the next item then. Right? Which is an
action item.
WELDY: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, thank you. I know I owe a thanks to the town
manager and the town clerk. Just a few short days ago, I was working on some invoicing
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and working with our community services staff, when I discovered that our current
contract had reached its dollar threshold and we didn't have enough to pay for the
upcoming Turkey Trot. With that said, they allowed me to get into the agenda quick
system a day and a half after it was closed, provided I worked quickly, and I did, so to
get this on the agenda. Thank both of you for that. I really appreciate it.
This contract right here is one that we have used for many years. It's a cooperative use.
The procurement officer that historically does these contracts, Rob, he and I both
looked through the history of this so we could tell you how many solicitations the
county received on this. We can tell you for certain that they at least received two, and
they selected two of them. And so there was some competition. This primarily covers
the street department, anything that we have here on the town hall campus. It also
covers the temporary traffic control devices for our special events. And I always include
this, we have on file and readily available to those that need it, emergency procedure
traffic control plan, should we need to at any time -- let's just pick Shea. Shea is an
evacuation route. We have procedures to make Shea through road with no left turns,
so everybody can get out faster. We also have separate traffic control plans that should
we have prolonged traffic signal outages, we have the standard operating procedure to
address that for safety reasons.
So it's not just for the here and now and the special events, but it also covers future
planning. With that, you have any questions about temporary traffic control devices, I'll
do my best to answer.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anybody. A motion?
GRZYBOWSKI: Moved to approve as written.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other further questions or anything? Okay. Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: We do have a written statement but they're for this item --
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: -- in your packet. Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
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OCTOBER 17, 2023, TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you very much. Appreciate all the work. Thanks, Gerry.
For the items for consideration discussion, we might want to look at the storage of our
stuff. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I know it's not dumping, but if we have any
alternatives, and that would be for you too, Justin, to just see. Maybe connect with
them and see what he had in mind for that. I don't think there were any other things
that were brought up at call to the public.
Future agenda items, anybody?
SKILLICORN: I've actually got a pair and one of them was brought up. And I know Aaron
comment on it a little bit, and I have a little bit different perspective on the moratorium
versus resolution. I think that we can do a resolution to instruct our staff, even though
something like that may not be challengeable in court, but that's something I'd like to
discuss. And the other one was that I did email a group home inspection, so I did want
to -- have their copy to give to Aaron. I did want to bring that up for a future agenda
item, especially since I -- and I wrote it up. Basically, I took it from Phoenix.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's already on the agenda. Councilmember Friedel mentioned that.
SKILLICORN: Okay. Cool. We could have two. I just have my own writeup. I know
there's something working on staff --
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, it's not just one thing. I mean, it's the whole thing. We're going to
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look at what it is.
SKILLICORN: Well, this is my request.
MAYOR DICKEY: And we can talk to Aaron about the moratorium thing. It's obviously
it's an illegal thing that we have going and it doesn't have any --
SKILLICORN: But it's my request to agendize it, though.
MAYOR DICKEY: How did you define the moratorium? It has no what and what?
ARNSON: I don't remember. Legal force or effect.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
ARNSON: That sounds like me.
MAYOR DICKEY: So in order to discuss this at a council meeting, I would ask for two
people to want that to be brought up at a council meeting, to turn it into an ordinance.
ARNSON: Was that the request? Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Is that what it was? Do you want to turn it into an ordinance?
FRIEDEL: I'm in.
MCMAHON: I thought that you said it wasn't --
MAYOR DICKEY: I think it's something we can talk about without it being on an agenda.
But does anybody else want to see it on an agenda? Okay. We'II follow up about it.
SKILLICORN: All right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. We're adjourned.
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Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting
of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on October 17, 2023, at 9:57 p.m.
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
ci
Gin rij Dickey, Mayor 0
do'G. Mende4 Thvn Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the
minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the
Town Hall Council Chambers on the 17'h day of October 2023. I further certify
that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present
DATEB-this 215' Day of November 2023.