HomeMy WebLinkAbout2023.1121.TCRM.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR MEETING
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 21, 2023
A Regular Meeting of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened at 16705 E.
Avenue of the Fountains in open and public session at 5:30 p.m.
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Sharron Grzybowski;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Brenda J. Kalivianakis;
Councilmember Hannah Toth; Councilmember Allen Skillicorn
Attended Telephonically: Councilmember Gerry Friedel
Staff Present: Town Manager Rachael Goodwin; Town Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Attended Telephonically: Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson
Audience: Approximately ninety-five members of the public were present.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
Meeting Minutes
November 21, 2023
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
Page 1 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Good evening, everyone. Welcome. Happy Thanksgiving, almost.
Please stand for the pledge. And if you choose, remain standing for our invocation.
ALL: I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
MAYOR DICKEY: It's nice hearing those young voices.
Pastor Rod Warembourg from Desert Creek Fellowship. Hi.
WAREMBOURG: Thank you for having me. Join me if you'd like.
Father, thank you for your goodness to us. Father, I come before you tonight, now in
the name of your son, Jesus. Father, I pray over this council. Father, I pray for the
leadership. Lord, your word says as it goes for the town, so it shall go for the people.
And so I pray, Father, you'd be made wisdom to this leadership group tonight. I pray,
Father, that you would help them to govern us well. I pray, Father, you would give them
wisdom and insight and understanding. In Jesus' name, Amen.
ALL: Amen.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
FRIEDEL: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Here.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Present.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
Page 2 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
SKILLICORN: Here.
MENDENHALL: Anyone wishing to address the council regarding items listed on the
agenda or under call to the public should fill out a request to comment card located in
the back of the council chambers and hand it to the town clerk prior to consideration of
that item. When your name is called, please approach the podium, speak into the
microphone, and state your name for the public record. Please limit your comments to
three minutes.
It is the policy of the mayor and council to not comment on items brought forth under
call to the public. However, staff can be directed to report back at a council meeting at
a future date or to schedule items raised for a future council agenda.
And Mayor, I also have just one thing to point out. We did remove an item from the
regular agenda, the reconsideration of the sign ordinance. But I wanted to let you know
that since we're no longer hearing that, we did receive some public comment, and there
was 12 comments, and that they were against it, and they're in your packet.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much.
We are starting off with our report, and I'll start with our town manager, Rachael.
GOODWIN: All right. Thank you, Mayor, council, all of our folks here. It's just a couple
of reminders that Thursday, day after tomorrow, is turkey day, and we are hosting our
annual Turkey Trot. As of right now, we have over 2,500 runners signed up. But it is not
too late; you can still trot. Registration is ongoing at the community center, but it does
close tomorrow night at 6 p.m. So from 3 to 6 at the community center, if you want to
be a last-minute turkey, please join us. We have a great -- it's a great annual tradition.
And then, be reminded too to stick around; the parade is right after, also another fun
tradition in our community. The note that the parade route will be going up and down
the Avenue. However, they will only be going up halfway. So they go to -- the parade
route will go up the Avenue to Verde River and then U-turn and head back down.
So it doesn't go all the way to La Montana this year. So it is a change.
And while I am a little bit of a traditionalist, I like one holiday at a time. I would be
remiss not to mention that the following weekend, on December 2nd, is the annual
Page 3 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
Stroll in the Glow, and that's when we will be lighting up the downtown avenue with all
of the holiday lights.
And we have a number of other holiday activities going on, including Breakfast with
Santa at the community center, our season celebration. So please check out all of the
activities going on. It's a great time here in Fountain Hills.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So I'll mix it up here and start with -- Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Mayor.
First, I just want to say congratulations to all the Fountain Hills voters. It turned out we
actually had the highest turnout in the entire state of Arizona. So a big thumbs up for
Fountain Hills voters for doing their civic duty this last Saturday. Actually, thinking of
elections and stuff, I was actually able to attend a forum on local government, that we
had candidates for council and mayor that were there. It was really refreshing to hear
how well prepared they were and to hear their vision for the best town in the state of
Arizona and probably the West.
You know, normally our meetings are the first and third Tuesdays of the month, and I'm
not sure why we had our street update last Thursday at 3 p.m., though. I just want to
people know that I did send an email and publicly posted that I was working and I had
some comments about that.
It's also, kind of, to me a kind of a told -you -so moment because this last spring I did
propose a roads first budget, and I laid out specific cuts, both in the editorials in
newspaper and even on my website. Feel free to check out allenskillicorn.com and see
that.
But it's just -- I do find it interesting that the council was against the modest three
percent cuts. And this upcoming year I think I'll try even harder and try to be bolder and
try to go for a five percent cut so we can fully fund roads. And unfortunately, that
budget that was passed continues to defund roads. But there's a way to do this without
hiking taxes. So we really want to aim for something like that.
And I just -- and really the election results kind of prove that being fiscally responsible,
living within our means, and not raising taxes is mainstream. It's a mainstream idea. So
Page 4 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
thank you so much.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Thanks, everybody, for coming out tonight. It's another full room, for all you people
viewing it on YouTube, for streaming it, and Cox Channel 11. An informed and active
citizenry is the recipe for good government. So thank you for showing up tonight.
We haven't met in a regular town council session for a month, and I don't want to go on
too long tonight, so I'll kind of cut it short.
I am on the League of Arizona Cities and Towns, the public safety, military, and courts
committee. There was those two Zoom meetings since our last council session, one on
October 26th elections and the Al era. Kind of scary stuff. Should we automate away all
of our jobs, including fulfilling jobs? Should we develop nonhuman minds that might
eventually outnumber, outsmart, and replace us? Should we risk the loss and control of
our civilization? This is an issue that our world is facing right now, and we need
leadership and people to regulate this kind of technology. It can be really scary.
On November 9th, we did the Israel and Palestine Revisited: Past, Present and Future.
And that was, again, a very eye-opening experience, and we pray for the people over
there. Yeah.
As Allen mentioned, last Thursday there was a workshop on the roads and the
discussion related to the future pavement management of our town. There was
presentations by the Roadway Assets Services, their final report, citizen advisory
committee, final report. Thank you guys for doing so much hard work for our town, on
your report. A lot of very intelligent people there are looking out for you and your
roads -- the roadway geotechnical engineering report and then the pavement
modification detail memo. So those are all covered. And it was really, really good stuff
because that does continue to be one of the hot button issues in our town -- is getting
the roads fixed.
Lastly, I just want to wish everybody happy Thanksgiving. Reminder that there is a
parade this week. Myself, I'll be in spot number 8 with my father's Oldsmobile. It's the
1974 Delta 88 Indianapolis 500 pace car, and it's very collectible car. And I hope all of
Page 5 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
you can come out and see my father's car.
So have a great evening. I hope you enjoy it. And the Stellar Students, good job.
MCMAHON: Thank you. I do not have a political statement to make. Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: We've got a really big agenda today, and it's been five weeks since our
last meeting, so I'II forego all of the meetings and grand openings and openings that I
went to. Instead, I'm going to do my usual celebration of yay, I love Stellar Student Day.
It is so much fun to come in here and have you guys sitting out there. And the Pledge of
Allegiance is always fabulous because there's the little voices echoing in the
background, and it's just super fun. We get a kick over here. We try to be quiet about
it, but we get a -- Hannah and I get a kick about it every time it happens.
So I'm also going to do my usual. The mayor is going to tell you guys after this is done
that it's okay to leave, but I'm going to tell you it's actually okay to stay. It's kind of fun
in a nerdy sort of way to see how your government runs. And right then is when
everybody laughs at me. Anyway, sometimes it is kind of fun.
Thanks a lot for coming, guys.
TOTH: Well, I never want to steal the vice mayor's thunder on that, because that is her
traditional speech. But I will kind of echo. Please do stay. It is kind of fun. And also the
Thanksgiving Day parade, just a reminder, it starts practically right after Turkey Trot. So
be sure to stick around and check. You can either check Facebook or online or the Visit
Fountain Hills mobile app to look at the new route of the parade as well, just for those
of us that set up our chairs and our tents and tailgate and get ready for the parade. I
want to make sure that everybody is well aware that it does have that slight change to
the route.
And that is all I have. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Thank you, Mayor.
I just want to wish everybody happy Thanksgiving in my absence. We have a lot of great
activities going on in the town. And you know, I did attend the -- I thought it was
uY..
Page 6 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
important enough for me to attend the workshop last Thursday. And I just have one
point I want to make, that this council is very serious about taking care of our roads and
our entire town. So we appreciate the citizens committee, the geo reporting, and
everything else that was brought to our attention last -- at the workshop last week. And
again, we have a whole town that we need to take care of. It's not just roads. The town
is responsible for a lot of other infrastructure, which we will attend to, and we will take
care of our roads. And it's important to every council member sitting up there.
So I just want to make sure that everybody understands that we do take that seriously.
And it can't be roads only; we've got a whole town to maintain.
So again, thank you, Mayor. I appreciate it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilman. I appreciate that.
So yeah, there were a lot of things that went on in the last four weeks or so. So we had
a State of The County with Supervisor Galvin. Board member McMahon invited me to
the clean air Valley Metro lunch. And so that was great. They gave out awards to cities
that do a good job.
Make a Difference Day, it seems so long ago, but all that -- like, I look at on my calendar,
like, this is -- actually, was between meetings. Fountain Hills Cares. We had German
exchange students here. They all sat up here. It was really fun, and they enjoyed that.
We met with Maricopa County Attorney's office. We had that -- we had a pre -budget
retreat, and we had the work study session on the streets.
We had leadership graduation. Don't want to forget that. A bunch of meetings, ribbon
cuttings, all kinds of good things.
And last, I got to go to an informative dinosaur presentation over at the community
center that was given out by Encore for More. Her name was Darla Robertson. It was
really neat. She handed out -- and there was one child there, so it was awesome. And
they got to touch the fossils and such. So that was really cool.
So now we are going to do our Stellar Students. And the way we do this, guys, is I read
what your teachers said about the kids, and then Carol Merrill over here, Vanna White
or should I say, our wonderful Angela, has your certificates. So when I read your name,
Page 7 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
you can come on up. I'll read the good stuff about you. She'll give you the certificate,
and then stay here because we're going to go all the way through to the high school,
and everybody stay here, and Bob will take a picture of you. Okay?
So we are going to start with Little Falcon's Preschool. I think that might be in that area
over there somewhere. And we are -- and I want to say this right. Is it Ellia (ph.), Ellia --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Ellia.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- Norris? Ellia Norris, come on up.
"Ellia is an amazing student. She excels academically and is so caring to her peers,
especially those who need extra help. She makes it a point to be a good friend. Ellia is
creative, artistic, and inquisitive. She loves learning, and it shows. When Ellia learns at
home, what she learns at home and at school is evident in her art and her
conversations." Teacher says, "I'm so lucky to have Ellia in my class." Yay.
Our next Little Falcon is Max Paulsen. Max, are you here? All right. Come on up. Max.
"Max's language skills are exploding. One way he demonstrated this was during the fall
program. Max's sweet singing voice was heard by all. Max is excited about participating
in circle time as well as work group. Max demonstrates empathy for others during class
time and on the playground. I am lucky to have Max in my class." There you go, Max.
We're moving up to the bigger kids at McDowell Mountain, and we have Macy Bush. Is
Macy here? All right.
"Macy is a perfect example of a Stellar Student. Not only does she always do her best
on her work, she's extremely polite, respectful, and considerate of others. Macy goes
out of her way to be helpful and support others in need. In art Macy shows great skills
and offers wonderful ideas in class discussions. She shares her enthusiasm for art work
she has completed at home and new skills she's learning. Macy goes above and beyond
and is most deserving of the title Stellar Student." Macy.
Our next from McDowell is Giovanni Stroka. Is Giovanni here? Come on up. "Gio", they
call you Gio, "is a Stellar Student because he demonstrates the Falcon way in everything
he does. Giovanni has an amazing gift for art and design, and it's a pleasure to hear and
see his enthusiasm and growth in and out of art class. Giovanni offers wonderful insight
Page 8 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
to class discussions and is a pleasure to work with. He's an inspiration to his peers. It's
an honor to nominate Gio for being a respectful, kind, and responsible Stellar Student".
All right, Gio.
We're getting there, honey. But we'll bring you back up to take the picture. How's that?
From Fountain Hills Middle School, Whitney Carbonelli. Is Whitney here? Well, we'll
read about Whitney. "Whitney's an awesome 8th grade student and citizen. She's
respectful to staff and her peers. Whitney took the honor's schedule this year and has
worked extra hard to be successful. She maintains her excellent grades. Out of school,
she's actively involved in two local theater companies and has been involved in recent
productions." That is our Whitney Carbonelli.
Next, from the middle school, we have Quinton O'Conner. Is Quinton here? Hey. All
right. "Quinton is an amazing student and citizen. He comes to us new this year and has
stepped right into a rigorous 8th grade schedule as the newest member of the 1-21
Honors program. He plays club basketball and golf and is hoping to make the team at
Fountain Hills Middle School this year. Quinton has maintained excellent grades and is
respectful and kind to staff and students." Quinton O'Conner.
And now we've got the high school. Is Ali Lara here? Ali? Yay. Come on up. "Ali is an
excellent student. She is one of the first to ask questions and is willing to help and is
willing and able to help her peers. Ali does her best. She participates in class and
actively engages with the material." Ali Lara.
And from the high school, Brent Tenor (ph.). Is Brent here? Is it Tener? All right.
"Brent is an all-around star student. His teachers talk highly about his determination in
class, always being found on task and focused. Brent is creative, helpful, and well
mannered. He always brings a positive element to the classroom". Brent.
Okay. Are you ready? Are you ready?
You'll be in the picture too.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Smile. Happy Thanksgiving.
HAGEN: Say cheese.
Page 9 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Smile. Smile.
HAGEN: Say cheese.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Thank you, guys. All right. There you go. Right.
I was going to shake his hand and he did a high five.
Okay. There goes all the fun. But not really, because our first presentation is an update
on the fire department transition. And I know you're back there, Dave, and -- I think
he's coming. Thank you, Chief.
OTT: Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thanks for having us. It was tough not to walk
out with all the Stellar Students. And that's always a tough group to follow. So I'm just
beyond excited to where we're at right now. And we're within 40 days of the transition
being in full swing. And I joked at the beginning that New Year's Eve we'd be changing
shirts in the fire station and going from Rural Metro to Fountain Hills Fire. And it kind of
started as a joke, but it actually worked out into that day for the transition works well.
It's the last day of the contract for Rural and the start of our new Fountain Hills Fire
Department.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can we all come and watch that?
OTT: I don't know. I'll be here, but I'll probably be asleep. I haven't made New Year's in
don't know how many years, but that's another story.
The transition itself is going well. It was kind of fun looking back at the calendar, and we
really started this go -round in October, but of 2022. The reality of it is that Chief
LaGreca kind of started the whole process when he came back from Scottsdale with
helping them with their transition put together the alternative fire service plan in 2005.
And that was a living, breathing document that has made its way from 2005 and up until
this point. And there was a lot of good work done by Chief LaGreca, Chief Roberts. I
just kind of fell into it and am very humbled to be the first fire chief of Fountain Hills.
But as we're moving forward, once we decided that the contract was going to be
canceled, that really started the timeline ticking for where we were at. That was the
beginning of November of 2022, and we really needed all of that extra time to put
things in place and keep things moving.
Page 10 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
We bought structural turnout, personal protective equipment. We bought wildland
personal protective equipment. That's all been purchased. The majority of that's come
in. We're hoping to get the firefighter turnouts next week, and we'll -- everybody had
been sized; that's kind of a lengthy process. We were able to get in on more of a 90-
day turnaround than what was typical through the COVID period, where it was almost
14 months to be able to get firefighter's protective gear manufactured and delivered.
So things have improved on that side. We're excited to get the new gear and move
forward with that.
We've gone through the process with the Mesa Regional Dispatch Center. You also have
the IGA for the TOPAZ Regional Wireless co-op before you tonight. It's the last piece of
the communications part. That was a long process. We started that, also, in the
beginning of November of last year and went through the approvals that it took to get
Mesa to approve dispatching for us. And that's a key piece. And as we move forward, if
we make our our application for automatic aid in the Valley, that regional dispatch is a
huge piece of that part, as well as some training, so.
With that transition, we bought some computer equipment. Our IT chief has been
instrumental, as well as Robbie, to help us get to where we're at with buying the
necessary equipment for that cut over. There's also software that was involved with
that. We have -- now paper patient care charts are no longer the thing. I mean, that
was really all we ever did before. Now it's all electronic. So there's a software program
for that. There's a software program for fire department tracking. We'll actually have
better fire department call and in first reporting. And that's the national fire incident --
something, something. But anyways, it's an important part. That information that's
collected across the country, and it goes into things that the National Fire
Administration looks at. That'll be a big plus for us.
We're also excited to go through the rest of the upgrades that we've been doing. We've
hired all of the 30 field personnel. I was lucky enough to get our training Captain John
Krajnak on board in early October. He's been instrumental in trying to finalize some of
the finer points in customizing our electronic patient care reporting form so that it
Page 11 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
meets our needs. John's also helping line up some of the training. We've been doing a
lot of work with Fort McDowell and Salt River in what we've called an enhanced mutual
aid relationship.
We currently have IGAs and mutual aid agreements with Rio Verde, Fort McDowell, and
Salt River. So we're working on joint training. Part of that IGA is it does require us to
train jointly. We've just started with some of that, getting familiar with each other's fire
engines, the hose that they carry, the equipment that they carry, how that interacts.
We've also -- with Gilbert Road being under construction, we've worked out some
agreements with Salt River that we can handle part of that north end of the Beeline
Highway from about mile marker 185 north. We've built some of those response
guidelines, and that's great for our area.
Those are things that were not really open to us previously, but now that we're moving
down the municipal path, there's a lot of other avenues that are open to us, and we're
looking forward to be able to take advantage of all of those. There's just so many
things -- it had gotten to the point where I was no longer waking up at night, staying up
for two hours, writing things down so that I could make sure that, yes, I either did do
that or, no, we didn't do that. I'm actually getting a little bit more sleep these days as
we move forward to it. And again, we're 40 days from changing shirts in the fire station.
We're also 20 days from being dispatched by Mesa. The equipment for the station
alerting package has all been installed. Mesa Radio shop has been out testing it. That's
another thing that you'll see before you tonight, is an agreement with the City of Mesa
to allow their techs -- it's kind of a formality, to allow their technicians to come over,
work in town -owned property, and do the last final dialing in of that station alerting
package.
But those are all things that we are extremely excited about. We're looking forward to,
for us. And what's typical in the fire service is as new departments come on -- and there
are not very many of them, so we're kind of in a select few. We've been lucky in the
Valley that over the last -- since 2005, there's really been three fire departments start up
from going from a contracted service to a municipal department. So we're in a small
Page 12 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
group of those.
But one of the things that we look at, we've got traditions. We'll do a pinning ceremony
sometime in January or the early part of February, where we'll welcome all of the
firefighters in, kind of swear them in to the Fountain Hills Fire Department.
So that's -- in a nutshell, that's what my last 14 months have looked like. And I'm just
extremely excited and looking forward to the next 14 months to two years, as we kind
of perfect this and make this the best municipal department in the Valley.
With that, I'll entertain any questions or comments.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: You know, this is so nice to see you so excited. And you know, having been
part of this journey and bringing our fire department in-house is amazing. And it's so
rewarding to see you be so excited. And thank you for your leadership.
And also, I attended the Youth Drug Coalition volunteer event a couple of weeks ago,
and I had the opportunity to speak with about six, seven, or eight of your fire personnel.
And they are so giddy and excited to be part of this and employed, and work with you
and our town, it makes my hair stand on end in a really good way. So I just wanted to
let you know that and say thank you very much.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
OTT: Mayo, Councilman -- ma'am, I appreciate that. And it truly is funny to see a 50-
year-old guy be giddy. And I'm not speaking about myself. I've got a few more years
than that. But I do get a little giddy now and then, too. And things like waiting on the
delivery of the new T-shirts has got all of them excited. So for some of the guys here,
some of the members that we've hired, they've been here for 30 years and they've been
waiting for 30 years for this opportunity. So they're all very dedicated to the town and
looking forward to the opportunity to serve the residents for here, so.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Thank you, Chief, for your presentation tonight and keeping us informed of what's going
on. Like Peggy said, I think everybody up here is really excited right now. It's palpable,
Page 13 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
the love that you seem to have for this project.
Fountain Hills is all about providing great government and great services to its citizens.
And I do believe, after discussing this with you and your graciously letting me tour the
fire stations, that we will have the premier municipal fire department in the state. And
that means a lot.
And so thank you for all the work that you've done and for your leadership in this. And
I'm looking forward to the ceremonies and the celebrations that will certainly follow, to
reward you for your good work.
OTT: Mayor, Councilmember, thank you for that. And it truly is an honor to be here and
serve this community.
FRIEDEL: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Yes. Yes, Councilman?
FRIEDEL: Chief Ott, I just want to thank you for your leadership and seeing this project
through for our town. It's a great asset to have you guys truly represented as
employees of the town. The residents know you, you know our residents, and we know
what to expect, and so do our residents. So again, thank you for your leadership and
seeing this through for our town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Councilman. We appreciate your comments and all of your
comments.
Again, of course, thanks to everyone. You mentioned the late Scott LaGreca. I
remember sitting, two houses ago, in the study on the phone with him, talking about
this. He made the big notebook so that we could take control if we needed to. And it
has been a long journey. When you say 30 years, I hear that; I feel that.
We want to thank Rural Metro too, for helping us with this transition and all their
guidance and keeping our community so safe for so many years. And our neighboring
departments, the new relationships that we are going to have, that we do have. Randy
Roberts, our former chief, who obviously -- we share grandchildren; we're in-laws. So
that's very special to me. And you are being humble, but it did not fall into your lap at
all; you made it happen. I sat at your desk; you showed me the numbers over and over.
Page 14 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
You're the one that made it work in a way that we could afford it, we could do it. The
timing was right. I appreciate you and Randy and Scott at the time, talking to my son.
He's a captain now. You've changed people's lives. You continue to do that. And I want
to thank you very much.
OTT: You're welcome. It really has been a journey. And the support from the
surrounding departments, as well as from Rural Metro, has been overwhelming.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, sir. And keep us apprised of what's going on, and we're
here to help as well.
OTT: I appreciate that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Did you have something, my dear? Okay.
All right. Thank you.
OTT: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: So this -- you're on the spot now, mister.
Our annual financial audit report is our next presentation, and we will be equally
excited.
POCK: I was going to say, I'm hoping this isn't, like, a buzzkill or something after that.
It's like, everybody's going to be crying for different reasons.
All right. Let me get this open real quick. All right.
So good evening, Mayor, Council. As you know, each year we're required to have an
audit done by an independent auditor so that we're in compliance with A.R.S. We
finished another year, finished another audit. Christmas came early, if you looked in
your mailboxes and you got your reports.
So tonight, our audit partner from Heinfeld Meech is going to be here, Josh Jumper, to
go over the procedures, the findings -- or lack of findings, I should say. And then, as far
as specifics, as far as numbers, that sort of thing, we'll be doing that just a little bit later
with the financial update. So here you go.
JUMPER: Good evening, Mayor and Council.
Excited to be here. There's been some exciting topics so far, so I'll try to keep the
energy going with the annual audit. I will keep my comments brief. I know you have a
Page 15 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
lot on your agenda tonight. There is a PowerPoint; I promise it's only a few slides.
My name is Josh Jumper. I'm a partner with Heinfeld Meech, and I'm here to present on
the audit results for the fiscal year ended June 30th, 2023.
So like Mr. Pock mentioned, why am I here? Well, it's in A.R.S. that the external auditors
must come to present the audit results for all municipalities in the state of Arizona. This
was inserted into A.R.S. in 2021. But I will point out that the Town of Fountain Hills has
been doing this, and put this into practice, many years before that. So your external
auditors have been here for many years presenting the audit results.
So just want to touch on the importance of the audit. So when I'm here presenting on
the quote/unquote "audit results", I really want to just touch on what that means, what
reports are issued, and our role as the external auditors.
So we're here to verify management's representations regarding the town's finances, to
demonstrate stewardship and accountability to a variety of outside parties, compliance
with certain laws and regulations, and you're here to ensure that management has
fulfilled its responsibility.
So just touching on the timeline of the annual audit for fiscal '23. So our audit
procedures were started in the summer. We came out in September and performed
final audit procedures. The drafts of all the reports were sent to management for their
review in October, and the audit reports were issued earlier this month.
So I just want to touch on what reports are actually issued when we talk about the
annual audit. So I'm going to skip the communication to governance for just a minute.
Start with the annual comprehensive financial report. So that is the big report that you
probably have in your mailboxes or with you now. But that's the town's audited
financial statements. So included in there is the audit opinion over those financial
statements and includes a host of other information.
Additionally, this year there was the single audit reporting package, and that's issued
and submitted to the federal government in relation to the city's compliance with
spending federal dollars.
Additionally, there's the annual expenditure limitation report. So all cities and towns
Page 16 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
have an expenditure limit, and that report just indicates the city's compliance with
staying under that statutory limit.
And finally, there's a one -page transportation compliance report letter, which just really
gets into us ensuring that the state has spent its HURF monies in compliance with
Arizona Revised Statutes.
So just a couple of high-level key items for this past audit. The audit opinion of the
financial statements was unmodified. And what that means -- that's a clean audit
opinion in layman's terms, and our opinion was dated November 8th. Additionally, we
report on the town's internal controls over financial reporting, as well as spending of
federal dollars. And please report there were no internal control deficiencies noted for
the year '22/'23.
In relation to part of that, the COVID-19 funding from the federal government that came
in the past few years, that triggered this single audit report to be issued. And that
trigger is over $750,000 of federal expenditures. Additionally, not going to get into too
much accounting lingo tonight, but there was a new requirement under GASB, which is
the Governmental Accounting Standards Board, just related to subscription -based
technology agreements and the accounting around those. This did not have an impact
for the Town of Fountain Hills, but just noting that that was something that all
governmental entities had to look at and account for.
Additionally, other important communications to you, Council, includes a letter to
governance that you may have in paper already, but if not -- Mr. Pock, they do have it?
POCK: No. They will.
JUMPER: They will have it. But I'm going to kind of just go over it in my presentation.
So we're required to communicate with you a host of things. So we have to
communicate if there are uncorrected misstatements, pleased to report there were
none. If we had disagreements with management for the audit, there were none.
Additionally, in that document that you will receive is a copy of the engagement letter,
which is signed at the beginning of the audit, goes over our responsibilities as the
auditors, as well as management. And then the representation letter, which is signed at
Page 17 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
the end of the audit, which allows us to issue our audit opinion.
In addition, there's included in there -- we do inquire about fraud and noncompliance
with a variety of employees and management just in terms of our -- or during our audit
procedures. But just noting that responsibility for fraud ultimately rests with
management and council.
And in terms of our responsibilities, we provide reasonable but not absolute assurance.
And the financial statements included in the report you have, the ultimate responsibility
is management; we're just providing an audit opinion on those numbers.
I said I'd keep it brief, but I'm here to answer any questions you may have for me.
MAYOR DICKEY: Anybody have any questions, anything that you want to add? I think
we like what it says. So do you have anything to add, David, or -- no?
Well, we appreciate this. Obviously, I think we got -- we had a lot of this in our packet,
so we were able to look at it. And Gerry, did you have any questions?
FRIEDEL: No, I don't, Mayor. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. I wanted to make sure I call on you.
All right. Well, thank you so much. We appreciate it. Have a great Thanksgiving.
JUMPER: You, too. Thank you.
GRZYBOWSKI: I feel like we should be giddy or something.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. So our next is our call to the public. Do we have speaker
cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. Okay.
First up is Wendy Kelleher, and on deck is Crystal Cavanaugh.
KELLEHER: Thank you once again, Mayor and Council, for listening to us. I am Wendy
Kelleher. I am on the board of directors of the Village at Town Center. We share two
significant borders. We share a border along our western side and along our northern
side. The western side we addressed a little earlier with the Community Garden. We
continue to have somewhat troubled relationships with the Community Garden. And
we are asking that the Community Garden fulfill the promises that they made to us
earlier, about putting in landscaping and removing certain eyesores from the back.
Page 18 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
But now, since Park Place Phase 3 has been approved, we have our northern border,
and we just ask really one main thing. I didn't prepare a statement tonight because my
message is simple.
Your back yard is our front yard. And we will enthusiastically and, if necessary,
aggressively protect our front yard. So that's why I'm here tonight, is to remind the
council that we are a partnership. We share property to some extent, and we'd like to
be involved in the conversation with anything and everything that would affect our front
yard and your back yard. I have asked to have some meetings with the council and with
the staff to talk about some of the things that are happening, particularly along our
northern border, mostly as regards water mitigation. We've had a lot of damage on our
property because of the water that runs off from the city property. And I am going to be
working with, hopefully, your staff to talk a little bit about that and see what happens as
Park Place Phase 3 is developed.
Thank you very much for your time. And please remember, your back yard is our front
yard. Thank you.
CAVANAUGH: Good evening. Tonight's private executive session topic included, and I
quote, "The small cell wireless moratorium and a draft wireless facilities ordinance".
Why is this always behind closed doors? The public has very limited understanding of
what this has been all about. As I understand it, all you need to do is follow the original
master plan for our community, which said that all utilities should be underground, just
like Anthem did, as well as McCormick Ranch.
Of course, there was no cell service at that time, so an exception for the large cellular
towers was made in accordance with federal telecommunication regulations. Those
federal regulations refer to the large 5G cellular towers and antennas such as is behind
the Alamo.
What the council should essentially be addressing would be more appropriately called a
broadband ordinance, not writing an ordinance for aboveground small towers, but an
ordinance requiring all utilities to be underground in beautiful scenic Fountain Hills.
Again, not related to cellular. So not falling under the federal telecommunication rules.
Page 19 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILI.S
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
Using underground fiber optic lines provides more protection from the various weather
elements and will provide the fast streaming services that people want.
I can see where the public and myself were initially confused with this broad 5G topic
and term. When you look at your cell phone or your cellular Internet, such as Verizon,
you see the 5G symbol, but that relates to 5G cellular, which uses those large cell towers
with antennas. These small wireless towers are entirely different.
Previously, the council put a moratorium until the end of the year on approving any
small wireless aboveground towers until more information was obtained. Research
information has been provided to you from citizens. The companies who want their
small tower business in Fountain Hills will choose to put them wherever they want, and
they will become eyesores.
So what has been the holdup to writing a basic ordinance stating all utilities should be
underground to address this issue straight on? It is not a regulated telecommunication
issue, but comments made in this very room have complicated the understanding of the
manner by lumping large towers together with the small towers. If we have a master
plan, the strategic plan, and then an ordinance in place requiring underground utilities,
it should not be this complicated or need to be discussed behind closed doors without
public input.
Ideally, any fiber optic installation would be coordinated in advance and in conjunction
with any scheduled street repairs, possibly providing a cost benefit and more
importantly, avoiding digging up repaired roads later.
In addition, the sign ordinance, which has been discussed ad nauseam throughout 2023,
but apparently still needs more reconsideration and even more voting, thankfully, was
pulled from tonight's agenda. But I strongly urge you to put the inspections of
transitional community residences on the next agenda, as well as the ordinance for
underground utilities. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Next, we have Liz Gildersleeve, followed by Lori Troller.
GILDERSLEEVE: Good evening. I, too, am very concerned about the excessive use of
executive sessions where you've discussed small cell wireless. Instead of having an
Page 20 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
open, public conversation with residents about an issue that will impact everyone,
you've chosen to meet behind closed doors throughout this entire year.
For example, in an executive session on January 3rd of this year, where the public
cannot be present to hear discussions, you discussed, quote, "possible modifications to
town code guidelines and 5G policies", end quote.
On May 16, during another executive session, you had a, quote, "5G ordinance review",
end quote. On October 3rd, during yet another executive session, you discussed, quote,
"the small cell wireless ordinance", end quote. Keep in mind that no one outside the
council, as Crystal mentioned, has been able to review this ordinance. And then finally
today, again, in executive session, just an hour or so ago, you discussed the moratorium
and a wireless facilities ordinance draft.
Hiding behind the privilege of an executive session to draft and discuss the wireless
ordinance is a serious abuse of A.R.S. 38-431.03, and it is an abuse of our ordinance
process itself. Why hasn't this ordinance been given to our citizen planning and zoning
commission for review and input?
There is a large group of Fountain Hills residents, roughly close to 200 active
participants, some of whom have been asking for transparency about small cell wireless
this entire year. And yet you thumb your noses at your constituents when we've asked
for transparency. You have abused the letter and spirit of the executive session statute
by burying small cell wireless in executive sessions. People in Fountain Hills want
wireless technology; that is not the issue. We just want assurances that the fiber is
installed underground, along with our other utilities, and not in ten -foot towers in our
front yards. Is that asking too much?
Resident angst, continued distrust, and rumors, right or wrong, should come as no
surprise to you on this issue as you are -- as they are a direct result of your lack of
transparency and failure to follow ordinance processes.
Mayor, you're to blame for abusing executive sessions as you set the agenda and call for
these executive sessions. But the rest of you share some of the blame for not pushing
back and allowing the secrecy to continue. Thank you for listening.
Page 21 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
TROLLER: Lori Troller, resident. For 18 months I've come up here, and all I've ever
asked for is to assure the Fountain Hills residents that we have services brought to our
homes the best possible manner, and that's underground, adhering to the same policy
all our utilities meet.
This town has the extraordinary opportunity to do exactly what Anthem did, providing
broadband services to homeowners underground without a single broadband tower.
We should be working to deal with Cox. They are currently doing a major upgrade and
expanding their services by laying fiber optics underground. The town would look
genius if we coordinated with them, paving our roads behind their work and cutting the
road cost with them as they would be paying for the repair or the cost -- or the roads.
The ordinance should be put in the hands of planning and zoning and allow proper
procedure, including public input, and include an emergency clause for immediate
effectivity upon vote. Three of you, literally, voted to rewrite our underground standard
by voting against the very legal moratorium, voting to allow contractors to build towers
anywhere in Fountain Hills as we are -- as if we are a dart board. Service can and should
be brought underground, which provides even better, more reliable service. But your
vote was to deny that.
The sheer amount of redistribution of wealth these towers will cause property owners is
the single largest financial issue this town has seen to date. Voting against a
moratorium and for a tower ordinance is in defiance of the very foundation of this town.
Refusal to put these services underground is acting in complete antagonism towards
property owners.
You all received a notice for the basis of the moratorium. For the three of you that
voted against the moratorium, you will receive an affidavit. Ask Donald Trump and his
lawyers -- how that works out, not Aaron. You will receive another notice to convert the
moratorium to a resolution to an ordinance and for excessive use of executive session.
Our town does not have a town charter. What's a town charter? It's a document that
defines standard operating procedures for the city hall. It lays out procedure for how
things are to be done, for example, what steps are to be taken when you update an
Page 22 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
ordinance. Not having procedures leads itself to malicious actions, whether they are
intentional or not, and gives question to the credibility of anyone involved. The
perception of this council is acting in complete antagonism of We The People by
conducting the development of an ordinance in secret in an executive sessions.
As of next week, this council is under investigation by the Arizona State Attorney's Office
for excessive use of executive session.
MENDENHALL: Now we have Barry Wolborsky. And following Barry will be Mathew
Corrigan.
WOLBORSKY: I am Barry Wolborsky, and I'm not going to talk about the cell towers.
As you know -- thank you. As you know, I'm the treasurer for the Sun Ridge Canyon
Homeowners Association, which consists of 788 homes. At our last board meeting, we
had complaints about the lot on the corner of Golden Eagle and Bainbridge, which is
currently being used to store broken cement but has stored other awful things in the
last year. Before the town decided to store this ugly building refuse here, the lot was
completely natural. The location is on a heavily traveled street across from a church and
preschool, and next to our premier park, where thousands of persons come every year
to play in their baseball tournaments and look at our ugly little lot full of concrete.
Is this really the way we want to present our town? I have spoken about this before, as
have other homeowners, with junk rock, asphalt, and other unpleasant things adjacent
to their properties. We need now some direction from the council to allocate funds or
direct funds to mitigate these horrendous eyesores. You could do landscaping; you
could do very attractive landscaping around this, which would hide the broken asphalt
and the broken concrete and all the other nasty stuff they put in there, and actually add
something to the community. Or you could build a nice wall around it. But clearly the
council needs to give staff some direction on the issue because otherwise nothing is
going to happen. All Fountain Hills residents are proud of our beautiful town, and these
junk material storage areas are a blot in our community. Thank you.
CORRIGAN: A sincere "happy Thanksgiving" to all of you, and I hope you do enjoy it.
Madam Mayor, Councilmembers, Matthew Corrigan, homeowner, full-time resident,
Page 23 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
Fountain Hills.
I was going to comment on an item which has been taken off the agenda, 9-B, which
now has another title. So I've chosen to do so in public comments. But I'll have to
modify it a bit. I do support amending zoning ordinance chapter 6, sign regulations. I
believe in strong support of Fountain Hill's small business in general. And I believe in
businesses that include reasonable sign codes. So I'm hoping that this town is providing
that avenue for more reasonable sign codes.
It is fair to say that small business is the backbone of America, and it's also the backbone
of Fountain Hills. Business is vital to keeping Fountain Hills economically stable. It's a
key principle, and I believe in that. Our Fountain Hills small businesses are struggling to
succeed, and many are even struggling to stay afloat. So the town really, I hope, will be
offering additional amendments to the sign codes, not just with words and programs,
but action. I urge the town council to take action by removing burdensome sign code
restrictions to small businesses, including downtown retailers. Right now in a days
ahead, we are already in an election cycle, and sign regulations are very restricting,
confusing, and burdensome barriers for all candidates.
This ordinance will hopefully remove those barriers, if in effect, and allow candidates to
campaign without these restrictions. It's only right and it's only fair.
Small businesses here in Fountain Hills would be stronger, better off economically, and
support the town with more revenue. So I urge you again to review this and make those
amendments as necessary. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: That's it for public comment. You do have a written statement in your
packet, though.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Linda.
Aaron, are you on the phone? Is he?
ARNSON: Mayor, I am on the phone.
MAYOR DICKEY: Could you please address some of the comments? We are allowed to
respond at least to being accused of doing illegal things.
ARNSON: Mayor, I'm happy to respond. And my plan, for the council's information, is
Page 24 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
to --
TROLLER: You cannot respond to --
ARNSON: -- respond in full --
MAYOR DICKEY: We can --
ARNSON: -- with an email to the council --
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry. Go ahead, Aaron. I can't hear you. We can respond to
criticism directly. We absolutely can. Excuse me?
TROLLER: The attorney cannot.
MAYOR DICKEY: He is --
TROLLER: Others can. The attorney cannot.
MAYOR DICKEY: We are proceeding the way we're proceeding right now. Aaron, would
you please explain --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Indiscernible).
MAYOR DICKEY: -- would you please explain why I did not do anything illegal as I've
been accused?
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: I didn't say --
ARNSON: Mayor, I'm happy to do that. And I will be providing an emailed response to
several of the points that were brought up by members of the public tonight.
To be clear, there has been no changing, modifying, doing anything with an ordinance
behind closed doors. The point of having council executive sessions is to get legal advice
and in some instances for contract negotiations, for example, when we were retaining
Mr. Campanelli's firm and deciding which firm to retain.
That has been for the council to be able to evaluate whether the direction that this town
is going is appropriate and is desirable from the council's perspective. And we intend to
continue to draft and to provide direction to our -- internally and to whatever
consultants we need to provide it to, for this to eventually go to planning and zoning.
There has been no open meeting law violation. There hasn't been any abuse of
executive session. And that's, I think, where I'll leave it, Mayor, if that responds to your
question.
Page 25 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And as far as being accused of voting against the
moratorium, we were told many times that the moratorium is not a legal action. It is --
it's a legal action; we can do it. But it has absolutely no power or there's been so many
articles about this and so much time has been spent on this item so that we can try to
get somewhere. So I won't go any further than that.
But anyway, we will move on right now to our next item, which is our consent agenda.
Can I get a motion, please?
MCMAHON: So moved.
SKILLICORN: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you so much.
Our next item is our appointments to several commissions. I want to thank everybody
that applied. I want to thank the folks that are getting appointed and congratulate them
for agreeing to help the town move forward on several subjects. And I want to thank
the subcommittees. Since it was almost every commission, I think it's all of you. So I
want to thank you very much for doing all the interviews. Make sure I get this right.
Page 26 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
So Strategic Planning Advisory Commission -- these are new appointments here. Joseph
Reyes for a partial term for SPAC.
The History and Cultural Advisory Commission, the appointments are for Bob Burns,
John Gibson, Dave Peterson, and Tim Yoder.
For Sister Cities, and this is a partial term, is for Randy Crader.
And then the following reappointments are made: for the Board of Adjustment, Carol
Perica and Paul Ryan; for McDowell Mountain Preservation Commission, Janice Holden
and DJ Willard; and then, for the History and Cultural Advisory Commission is Susan
Obst-Dworkis for a full term. I think I got them all.
So I'd appreciate a motion, please, as written.
SKILLICORN: So moved as written.
GRZYBOWSKI: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: We have a motion and a second. Can we get a roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. Thank you all again. We look forward to what's
coming with you all in the coming year.
Our next item is a yearend summary. I think we're going to be hearing from David.
Page 27 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
Thank you.
POCK: All right. Good evening, Mayor, Council. Okay.
So as you heard, we finished the audit year. So once the opinion's issued, we're able to
take a little more concrete look at how we ended fiscal year '23. We're going to do that
first. And then we also have some updates on the first quarter of fiscal year '24, our
current fiscal year as far as revenues. As part of the yearend, with the final amounts, we
can also take a look at yearend transfers that happened. And if you remember, during
the budget process, there were a chunk of capital projects that we delayed until we had
those final numbers so that we can make a decision on moving forward on those. So all
of that to look forward to.
First, the fiscal year '23 yearend results -- and these are just summary points. So we did
collect $3.3 million more than what we had budgeted overall on the general fund. Our
general fund expenditures were $9.5 million Tess than what we had budgeted for. That
includes $4.2 million that we saved with the ARPA funds. Using those to pay for our
public safety contracts allowed us to save that money in the general fund that would
have otherwise gone to pay for that.
Overall, at the end of the year, there was $7.4 million left over in the general fund after
we did our reserve funds, so a rainy day fund or stabilization fund, and our unassigned
fund balance reserves, and our transfers to other funds, there was 7.4 in fund balance
left.
So as far as individual funds, I'm not going to go through each of these. They're grouped
by the classification that you'd find them in the financial reports. So the first is
externally restricted funds. That includes the streets funds, so you can see the yearend
balance there is almost $7 million. And then all the other various funds, totaling about
9.4 for all the restricted funds.
Next is committed funds. These are funds that council has acted and put into these
specific categories. So there's our stabilization fund. You can see we've got just under
$4 million put aside in that fund, and in total, 11.5 in all of those.
Next is assigned. These are basically -- let's say they're assigned per town policy. So our
Page 28 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
environmental fund, facilities reserve, vehicle replacement, those are all town policy
related, and there was 9.2 million in those funds.
That leaves -- the only other category that there is, is unassigned, and that balance was
$11.6 million at the end of the fiscal year.
So there's a summary of all the funds. You can see, one is at $9.6 million in fund
balance, more than what we had in fiscal year -- at the end of fiscal year '22. Our
stability metrics are also improving. You can see at the end of fiscal year '22, we had 6.4
months of revenue in our reserves -- or in unassigned, and we ended last year with
seven months.
So we've got basically, seven months' yearend fund balance. If something were to
happen tomorrow, we would have seven months of revenue, basically, set aside that we
could use.
Any questions so far on fund balances? Okay. I must be really good at explaining this.
Okay. All right. So then we'll go into fiscal year '24. We will be revisiting the '23
balances. If you had seen or gone through the presentation, those transfers in the CIP
is -- we're going to go back to that, so.
But first, a look at the first three quarters of the year. Actually, it was pretty well. Our
total taxable activity was 154 million. So that's basically all of the activity within town --
sales, rents, hotels, motels, short-term rentals, everything -- $1.4 million in taxable
activity. That's $15.8 million more than there was for the same period last year.
MAYOR DICKEY: So I do have a question.
POCK: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: So the TPT and the construction sales tax were kind of out there in
March, and that kind of makes that look like that? When we get there, could you
explain that?
POCK: Sure. So the construction is coming up in a couple of slides, I think. But that
peak that you see in April is -- yeah. This chart is based on when the reporting is done.
So in April there was reported activity. It was actually a speculative builder sale of an
unnamed project that we collected a nice sum. They made some decent money on
Page 29 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
what -- so they paid TPT on what they -- on the base value of when they constructed it.
If they sell it within a certain amount of time for more than that, they have to pay the
TPT on the difference. So that's what happened. That was reported in April. It's
actually collected as revenue in March, so it throws it back a month on the other slides.
But it's the same thing.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
POCK: Again, you can see that peak there is now showing in March. So that's because
the revenue was earned in March. So --
MCMAHON: I have a question.
POCK: Sure.
MCMAHON: So if you take out that one-time -- is what you're -- sounds like you're
saying -- income, how do -- not to put you on the spot. How does that level this out?
POCK: So if you looked at the profit, it would have been around $5 million for the
month of March without that one-time speculative, just based on the average there. It
was definitely a nice surprise. We thought there was a mistake when we actually got
the notification.
MCMAHON: Yeah.
POCK: So we dug into it a little bit and actually found out that it was a spec builder sale.
So --
MCMAHON: So in other words, don't get used to it, right?
POCK: No, definitely not.
MCMAHON: Okay.
POCK: There's a few things.
MAYOR DICKEY: I agree.
POCK: There's a few of these charts that have anomalies in them that make -- that
stand out. And it is basically, usually, just one-time type things. So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
POCK: So we had budgeted to receive 3.24 million. We actually collected 4.19. That's
almost $1 million more than what we expected. However, it was a decrease from the
Page 30 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
prior year, from '23, of $292,000.
The retail sales. By far the largest category of TPT that we collect is traveling right in line
with prior years. There was an increase of about $100,000 compared to last year. We
expected 2 million; we got 2.3. We'II take it; every little bit helps.
Then here's that construction. It definitely looks -- it's more pronounced here because it
made up a large portion, right, of that one month.
So the other tall spike that you see in July of 2022, it would have been fiscal year '23, but
July 2022, was actually some audit collections that we had. So again, not recurring very
often, so they stand out.
Utilities and communications. Nice and boring, just the way everybody likes it. There is
an increase in mid -September. So that would have been August activity but collected in
September. That I can't tell you. Maybe more people are using the internet or
subscribing to something that's being included in there. But it's definitely on track as far
as everything else goes.
Real estate. This is basically made up of our Tong -term rental, for the most part very
consistent. You can see, there's -- it's definitely a pattern here, right?
MAYOR DICKEY: Um -hum.
POCK: So we had budgeted 216,000; we collected 263. It's an increase of 5,000 over
the same period last year.
MAYOR DICKEY: The 200 -- so what is it over a whole year? I mean, you expect it to
basically be almost a million?
POCK: So this particular -- we don't budget it specifically like this. Let me see if I can --
MAYOR DICKEY: I guess, you know what my point is. On January, there --
POCK: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- it goes away?
POCK: So January 2025. So that would be part of our budget discussions for next fiscal
year.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. January --
POCK: Yeah.
Page 31 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: -- 2025, right?
POCK: I'm pretty sure it was about 655,000 for the long-term, last time I looked at it for
'23.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. And so we'll have it for half a year, and then next January it's
zero?
POCK: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. And I'll mention that the reason that is, is because the
legislature took it away. So now we will have -- and with the way rent has been going, it
could be more than 600,000. It could be quite a hit for that half a year and then from
then on.
POCK: Correct. So that actual -- that whole category we have for this current fiscal year,
just over $1 million for that whole category. The long-term rental portion of that is
about 650, I believe.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
POCK: Um -hum. So then restaurants and bars. Again, restaurants and bars and
services are probably our two most vulnerable categories to any kind of recessions,
cutbacks, that kind of thing, shutdowns, all kinds of stuff that we've experienced lately.
But I'm not seeing any kind of -- any alarm bells going off in these two categories, this
one and the next one. There's a slight decrease, but it's still holding on pretty well.
Again, services. This one was a little -- it surprised me a little that it was below where
we were last year by about 100,000. After I looked at it, my immediate thought was
that it was short -term -rental related, that we had started with the ordinance 22-09,
starting that in February. However, when I dug into it, there was no decrease in the
short-term vacation rentals. It was actually golf and personal property rental, like
equipment rentals and that sort of thing. So it was a little surprising. Hopefully that
that comes back up, but it's definitely one to watch.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. The whole -- it's a little bit weird for -- what's the grade there?
2022, it like started so high in July. So these are just sort of anomalies.
POCK: Right.
Page 32 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
POCK: All right. So then that leads to the state shared revenues. These are pretty
consistent. These are based off -- our budget numbers are based off of what the
Department of Transportation provides us and the Department of Revenue provides us.
So we're usually pretty close to what they anticipate receiving or sending to us. So you
can see the first one there is the sales tax. It's right in line where we thought we would
be. The income tax, the most boring chart that I have. In fact, if you notice -- and
maybe -- I had to fix this slide, because the one that I had sent you in the packet, the
scale wasn't even correct. And so the line for this first three months was off the chart,
so to speak. So I fixed it in this presentation, so you can see where it's at.
There was some adjustments made this year. So we used to receive 15 percent of the
state income tax that was received. That was increased to 18 percent because of the
adjustments that were made to tax tables and tax rates. So -- yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: So is this before or after the flat tax came into play?
POCK: So technically, the monies that we're collecting now are on years where there
wasn't the cuts yet. So this year we're going to receive more than what we can expect
to receive next year. So when we look at this next year, that line is going to be below
where the blue is.
MAYOR DICKEY: And the 18 percent won't make up for it then, right?
POCK: It's going to help. It's going to be better than than 15 percent.
MAYOR DICKEY: Than 15, yeah. Compromise.
POCK: But it all remains to be seen, if we collect -- if the state receives more income tax
with the lower rate. Those numbers are yet to be seen. So.
MAYOR DICKEY: Better tell Goodyear to stop growing, then.
POCK: All right. So this one, again, is another anomaly. I bet you can pick it. It's there
in the August of 2020 numbers. I actually went back to look at that just to make sure
that I was going to say the right thing this evening about it. And it was actually a one-
time allotment from the state to help with the pain that cities and towns had been
feeling with the public safety, quote -unquote, raid of HURF monies. So they allocated
Page 33 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
$18 million to be divided among all 91 cities and towns equally. So that was about
200,000 for us. But everything else is pretty much right in line.
Any questions on revenues for the first quarter?
MCMAHON: Okay. So hopefully I'll say this coherently.
POCK: Okay.
MCMAHON: Given the difference in what we anticipated and collected, given the flat
tax and no -- the over $607,000 less income we're going to have from long-term, are you
considering that as in the budget transfers, et cetera? I mean, is there any way
projecting that, knowing that it's going to affect us, that you can adjust the budget
accordingly in places where that money is usually spent?
POCK: So where we ended fiscal year '23 won't affect what we've budgeted for fiscal
year '24. So we budgeted fiscal year '24 based on what we're anticipating on collecting,
right. The revenue loss for long-term rental is going to be in fiscal year '25, so the
conversations that we're going to be having over the next four months or so.
Considering, in the general fund, that we've had large contingency amounts to keep the
general fund balanced. So we're anticipating in general, since I've been here, we've
anticipated on receiving more revenue than what we are going to spend. So we had to
plug the difference with contingency to keep general fund balanced.
Losing the 650,000 in long-term rental will reduce that contingency number, but we
still -- just initially, and off the top of my head, without going into -- I would assume that
we're going to just have a smaller contingency number. We're not going to have to
reduce expenditures to keep general fund balance, just because of that. If that makes
sense? Okay.
We'll see. All right. Any other questions? All right.
So then we'll go in and talk about the yearend transfers. As you know, our town policy
is we look at the yearend unassigned fund balance; we take out what's required for
reserves, again, for our stabilization fund, to make sure that that equals 20 percent of
our average five-year general fund revenues. We also have a 20 percent reserve that
we keep in unassigned. And then, during final budget adoption, council approved
Page 34 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
certain transfers, even without knowing what this final balance was going to be. That's
because those transfers are required to fund those funds -- environmental fund, the
facilities reserve fund. And then council also approved 4.2 million of the ARPA funds
that were sitting in facilities reserve to be sent to streets.
All of those transfers have already happened. So if you take the fiscal year '23 fund
balances, that's as of June 30th, you'd have to add the 4.2 million to the streets fund to
get what, most likely, the balance is going to be about. Obviously, we have ins and outs
those first four months as well. But just wanted to let you know that those transfers are
already done.
The second half of this slide is recommendations from staff. And something about these
screens -- these screens are, like, stretched or something. There's one more line that
should be under there.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
POCK: Yeah. Apparently. Now I'm going to have to look at my printout, see what the
actual number was. So yeah, it was 4.9.
So that bottom half of the slide, our staff recommendations, $2 million from the general
fund to facilities reserved for the lake liner. We currently have $2 million in that fund.
We've put $1 million over the last two fiscal years. This was a good year. We've,
obviously, collected more revenue than we thought we were going to collect, and we
spent less than what we budgeted. That difference is a larger unassigned fund balance.
I am thinking that it would be a good year to put $2 million towards that lake liner. We
know inflation over the last two, three years has hit us pretty hard. What we were
expecting that project to cost has gone up. Obviously, we don't know exactly how
much, but I'm guessing it's going to be at least $1 million more than what we were
thinking. So it would be a good year for that.
And then another $500,000 to facilities reserve. This one is kind of the -- I don't want to
say that it's kind of the stepchild of the funds. When the study was originally done in
2015, they recommended that 900,000 get put into that fund every year. We haven't
quite done that since I've been here. It's usually 500,000 and it's done. It would be a
Page 35 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
good year to actually increase that fund balance as well.
The one that's not showing on the screens here is what's left over after that, is $4.9
million. As far as town policy, that would go to capital projects -- to capital projects
fund.
MAYOR DICKEY: So the facilities reserve fund -- so, I mean, we keep talking about the
community center and such and other things. If something's in a capital projects fund,
can we put it into a facility? If something -- like, so we got the facility reserve fund,
which is more of like a preparing a car is going to break down or a roof's going to crash
or whatever. But if we have all this extra -- I hate to say it, but in the capital projects
fund and we see something that might be more of a facilities reserve, we can use those
funds for that?
POCK: So Mayor -- so there's a really great line between what belongs in facilities
reserve and what would qualify as a capital project. There's a whole bunch of
accounting books, seminars, classes, conference topics -- all kinds of stuff talking about
the difference between major maintenance and capital improvements. Right now to
qualify for a capital project, it's got to be a project over $50,000. We have an example
right now that's actually getting paid out of facilities reserve, and that's one of the lake
pumps is being repaired; it's going to be about 30. So that's coming out of the facility's
reserve just because it's under the 50,000, but it's not 30,000 that we had in community
services budget planned on spending. So it's kind of that catchall major maintenance -
type fund.
MAYOR DICKEY: That makes sense because it's a facility. If you look think about the
fountain as being a facility --
POCK: Absolutely.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- then that makes sense.
POCK: And that's why we're setting aside money for the lake liner in that fund, because
it is a place where funds can accumulate. Once that lake liner project does kick off, that
funding I would recommend be transferred to the capital projects fund, though, so that
it's able to be used from there as a capital project.
Page 36 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I do find this a little perplexing, so forgive me.
POCK: It's accounting. Simple governmental accounting.
KALIVIANAKIS: On the $2 million for the facilities reserve fund, Director Weldy told us
we've got a pretty big bill coming up with the community center for repairs. If we put
that fund -- I'm assuming, when you say lake liner, like an example of what would be in
that fund or are we designated $2 million for that fund?
POCK: Okay. It's to that fund for that specific purpose. So that $2 million that's there,
we can't just -- well, council could. But as staff, we couldn't go and spend it on the
pump, replacing the pump, or something like that.
KALIVIANAKIS: If we put it in that fund?
POCK: It's segregated within that fund specifically for that project, in the future.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you. It just seems to this Councilmember that if we're
putting $1 million a year towards the lake liner, that's adequate. And we've got a lot of
other expenses. And again, the community center's the one that really bothers me.
Because that's a clear and present danger for right now, where the lake liner is a
potential for the future. So I would just recommend, myself, that one million would be
designated towards the facilities reserve fund for the lake liner. That would be my
suggestion to council.
MAYOR DICKEY: I've said that before, as well, because if the lake liner fails, it's a
community issue and it's a community project and it's going to be $14 Million. So we're
going to have to -- I mean, it might be slow and it might be manageable for a while, but
it would have to happen. And we're Fountain Hills, and the people of Fountain Hills
would have to recognize that that's something -- we would not be able to write a $14
million check. And plus, what are we going to do with all the water and all that? I
mean, the whole thing is, like, mindboggling to think if it happens, because what we did
before was bring it all over across the street. But I agree that I don't I don't want to put
more than a million into that lake liner as well, unless there's something you're saying
that would restrict us from putting it into something like fixing the community center --
Page 37 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
putting it towards the community center, because that was a real painful one, obviously.
So.
POCK: Right. So what I'm hearing is we'd like to just do one -- another $1 million, like
we did the prior two years, for the lake liner. So that would be for that specific purpose.
And the other million to still go to facilities reserve, but maybe for the community
center? I don't -- technically, I don't want to get into a lot of trying to pigeonhole
specific money for specific projects in facilities reserve. It's supposed to be kind of more
of a generalized thing, but we can do that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Rachael, do you have --
GOODWIN: Yeah. I think there's a clarification. The projects that we've been doing on
the community center currently, have been funded through CIP?
POCK: For the most part.
GOODWIN: Okay.
POCK: We did have some facilities reserve the first year that didn't fit into that --
GOODWIN: Right, that niche. But for the most part, the bulk of those projects are being
funded out of the CIP --
POCK: Correct.
GOODWIN: -- thus, the one million that would be going to the liner would stay there.
And then what I'm hearing is the other million you'd like to put into capital projects in
order to help offset what we're expecting with the community center; is that right?
MAYOR DICKEY: It is to me.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, that was -- me, too. Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Hi. I, actually, I'm not sure if I'm the minority opinion here, but I actually have
kind of the opposite opinion. I was going to ask if we were allowed to put more at the
lake liner. My concern is when we do have to write that $14 million check. And I
understand that the reality would be in that kind of scenario where it has to be taken
care of, there might be a bond or something. That's a way to get the rest of the funds.
But I think, in a year that we have this unique opportunity to put away extra money and
Page 38 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
be especially fiscally responsible, I believe that we should take advantage of that.
So I actually was thinking to -- and I wanted to ask you, is it possible that 4.9 million that
is going to capital projects, which, therefore, a lot of that could be used for the
community center, are we allowed to shave a little bit off of that and add to the lake
liner?
POCK: Sure. Mayor and Councilmember, these are simply my suggestions. Council can
make any decision whatsoever, how to divvy up that $7.4 million.
TOTH: Thank you. That was my main question. Because I know that our financial policy
from your summary -- and thank you -- says that it would be used to satisfy fund balance
requirements first, and then any remaining would be transferred to the capital projects
fund. But just to be super -- okay. Just to be super clear, we still have flexibility with
those numbers?
POCK: Right. Yeah.
TOTH: Okay.
POCK: So this is the transfer's proportion. So first reserves, then transfers for the fiscal
year, and then whatever is remaining goes to capital projects. So.
GOODWIN: (Indiscernible).
TOTH: Okay. Thank you.
POCK: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I remember last year we talked a lot about the lake liner because we had it
looked at, et cetera. And I forget -- I know we're over the time limit. I forget how much
time we are. But it is -- like Councilmember Toth said, it's really, really important that
we do our best to fund that. But at the same time, we know we're not probably going
to be able to fund it all, might have to have a bond. So without getting in the weeds,
just really quickly, if you don't mind.
GOODWIN: So we did the study to say -- the assessment, I should say, of what condition
is the liner in. We did that -- we started that process in 2020 because at that point, our
warranty was up on the liner. So at that point it was 20 years old. So we did the
Page 39 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
assessment to say, well, what's it look like down there? What should we be planning
for? The life of that liner is anywhere from 20 to 30, so anywhere between 2020 and
2030. As we get closer to that 2030 mark, obviously, we get a little -- it's a balancing act.
It could go well past 2030. Our job, at this point, is to kind of monitor. Are we seeing
any indicators that there's a problem? Are we seeing any red flags that say, hey, we
may have a leak or, hey, we may have deterioration? And so we're doing evap tests on
an every -other -year schedule. We do site checks. We do some other things to make
sure that the integrity is there. At this point, everything looks good. But as we all know,
the closer we get to that 2030 mark, the more we want to be aware of that.
MCMAHON: Thank you. Also, my second part of the question is, if these allocations or
transfers are made, the two million to the lake liner -- if later, we look at it and we say,
can we transfer some of that money out for something else, is that a possible --
POCK: Absolutely.
MCMAHON: -- scenario?
POCK: Absolutely. So all of these are in the committed funds section, which is council -
committed funds. So they can be moved anywhere you'd like.
MCMAHON: Thank you so much.
POCK: It gives staff in and us, as far as budgeting, if we know where things are going, so
that we can plan for next fiscal year. That's why we're doing this now, so that we can --
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Councilmember McMahon, for those questions.
With that in mind that we have that flexibility even afterwards, I would really like to
suggest increasing the amount that goes to the lake liner, especially considering we
have that flexibility. But also as a reminder to my fellow council members, there's
another conversation happening when we talk about streets. And I would really love to
be able to tell the community in 2030, we saved enough money to replace the lake liner
and don't have to ask you for money; that would be lovely. I know that's in my unicorns
and rainbows world, but we can at least do what we can now.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any other opinions? Councilwoman?
Page 40 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah. Thank you, Ms. Mayor.
Even though there's some potential flexibility down the road, I think we should just deal
with it tonight because sometimes these things get lost and people forget, people didn't
remember your guidance. I think we just make decisions and move on. There are so
many priority funding items in this town that are screaming for money. We even told
the community choir and the community band, I'm sorry, go out and make a playbill and
go business to business to raise your own funds. So we've been squeezing, squeezing,
squeezing. We got a large bill with the community center.
Would it be nice to allocate more money to liner? Absolutely, it would. But this isn't
the year and this isn't the time to do it. If the liner lasts, hopefully, to 2030, we'll just
about be there. I hate the thought of a bond, but if it came to, like we need a $5 million
bond, otherwise our town namesake is going to be gone, I think the people would be
very generous and vote for that bond.
So -- and again, I'd just like to repeat my point that I'd like to just keep it at $1 million. If
things change in the future, we can do more money. But I just see so many projects and
so much skimping on what we're doing, and just parking all that money for something
that might happen in seven years or eight years from now, I'm just not there.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. Director Pock, I had a couple questions. The 4.9 million that
is going to -- that would, theoretically, go to capital projects if we approve this. How
does that compare to last year's transfer to the capital projects fund?
POCK: That is a question I didn't anticipate.
TOTH: I'm sorry.
POCK: Top of my head, I believe it was right around five.
TOTH: Okay.
POCK: Five million. So it's --
TOTH: Pretty much right on track?
POCK: Yeah.
TOTH: Okay.
Page 41 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN MILS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
POCK: If I'm wrong on that, I'll let you know in an email, but I'm pretty sure.
TOTH: Thank you. I'm sorry. If I knew in advance I'd ask the question, I would have
asked it in advance, but it kind of came up.
Okay. So the 4.9 million, if that's right on track, in that case, maybe we could just keep it
at the two? My concern with this liner is that, when we're already talking about fixing
our streets, and then we're also talking about the fact that this liner would be coming
down the line, if we have an opportunity to be saving up for one of those really big
projects, I think we really need to do so and do it right. If we're already moving 4.9 to
capital projects, that can then go to the community center or the funds in the facility
reserve, depending on what amount it is. I can understand maybe not putting more
than 2.2 million, but I would really, really caution the council on passing the buck on this
one. That liner is going to be a big project, and I don't know how willing the community
would be to accept two bonds in a short amount of time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
It sounds like everyone's got their point across on this here. I am very concerned about
these expenses. I mean, I love the pay as we go. I love paying things off and having
money ready to go in the savings. But we have to look at our biggest deficit there is. So
lake liner matters; I think it's a big deal. But we've got a road deficit. So I actually want
to make a motion to approve the transfers. But with one amendment, and that is to
take that 4.9 million and send it to roads.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, first I'll say, is there a second? And then I think capital projects is
for roads, right? I mean, we can use capital -- we can use that 4.9 towards some
projects, can we not?
POCK: So the policy, again, since HURF is our most restricted money that we receive. So
all of that money goes into streets. So we have a policy on the order in which this is
really going -- if you thought you didn't like governmental accounting, this is going to do
it. But just, basically, an order in which revenues are spent. So anything that's spent on
streets, sidewalks, traffic signals, signs, that sort of thing, should be spent out of the
Page 42 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
streets fund. I will say, if you look, we've got $7 million in the streets fund right now.
We just transferred another 4.2. Doing another 4.9 just to do another 4.9 doesn't give
us the permission to spend 4.9, 4.2, or even all of the 7 that we ended last year with. So
I'll leave that there.
MAYOR DICKEY: So the motion?
POCK: But it's up to council.
MAYOR DICKEY: We didn't have a second on that particular, and then the motion that is
kind of going with this item also includes the delayed start capital project. So if we
continue to talk about that, that might clarify the other issues that we would be
spending some of that money on.
POCK: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: So if that's okay with you, we'll kind of move on. And then if you want
to make another motion, we can do that.
POCK: Thanks for the segue, Mayor. Yes.
So as I mentioned earlier, during the final budget adoption, we had a chunk of projects
that were delayed, that we were going to delay until we saw what revenues were
looking like for the first quarter. We've done that. They're in line with what our
projections are, over our projections in some cases. So here's that same chunk of
capital projects again for you to consider approving moving forward with.
MAYOR DICKEY: This would come out of the capital projects, this set? Okay.
POCK: That fund balance is there. So there is enough fund balance. The budget
transfers that would have to go with this would come from our contingency first, so $2.4
million.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Is anybody prepared to make the motion as stated?
GRZYBOWSKI: I will move to approve as stated.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. And just for the record, that's moved to approve transfers
of FY23 yearend unassigned fund balances as presented and authorize delayed start
capital projects and associated budget transfers as presented.
Page 43 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
We have a motion and a second; is there any further discussion? And I just realized I
forgot to ask if there were cards.
MENDENHALL: Mayor, for this item, no. We don't have any speaker cards.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
KALIVIANAKIS: Madam Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, ma'am?
KALIVIANAKIS: On the delayed projects, we're still going to get another vote on that
later? On the delayed projects?
MAYOR DICKEY: So sort of like a budget meeting where we're voting on it, and then as
they come forward, we will reconsider them?
KALIVIANAKIS: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
KALIVIANAKIS: Just want to make sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
All right. Can we get a roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Explain my vote, Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: You bet.
FRIEDEL: As long as we have a reconsideration of those projects, I would be in favor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
Page 44 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you very much. Thanks, David.
POCK: Oh, Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Ooh, uh-oh.
POCK: I'm sorry. If I may? I didn't mention that a week from tomorrow, we're actually
having our public outreach for fiscal year '23, kind of a wrap-up. It will be here in the
council chambers at 5 o'clock. So there's my unsolicited --
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
POCK: -- solicitation.
MAYOR DICKEY: Be there or be square.
POCK: Exactly.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Our next item is about mobile food vendors.
Everybody doing okay? Need a break? Do you want to break?
Okay. We're going to take a couple of minutes. Sorry, John. Thanks. Thank you.
[Comfort break]
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you very much. We are back and ready to hear about food
vendors. And thank you, John.
WESLEY: No problem. So I do have before you this evening, council, a proposal to make
a few amendments to the town code as they would relate to providing regulations for
mobile food vendors.
We do have a few that operate in town. We have been using portions of our code to
regulate them without any real specific requirements. We've been using our temporary
use permit process administratively issuing permits for up to a year for vendors to
operate in specific locations. We feel it's time to actually get some specific regulations
in place to address this use as it becomes more popular.
So we are proposing two things. One is to add a new article 8-7 dealing directly with the
mobile food vendors, but then also to make a change in 8-3-5, dealing with special
events and as they might work with food vendors.
Page 45 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
So we'll look at that one first in the code. And so section 8-3-5-D is where we're at. And
this section is talking about special events and providing for vendors within special
events. And so section D provides for the minimum information needed by an organizer
of a special event, in terms of those vendors that are going to be there. Number 8 in the
list states a requirement for the organizer to get the business' TPT.
Moving ahead just a moment, in the mobile food vendor ordinance, we set certain
requirements -- excuse me -- for those businesses in terms of do they have their state
license, have had their fire inspection, do they have their local TPT and proof of
insurance? Those things are required over there. We don't have anything because we
aren't requiring somebody just coming here for the special event to go through that
procedure and get a license, because -- I'll call it a one-time thing, even though they
actually covers multiple events. They're coming as part of that event, and otherwise not
coming to town. So we didn't want them to have to go through that licensing
procedure, because that really is directed toward somebody coming in, just wanting to
set up someplace through town. There were still a few things we thought would be
important to know about those vendors that were coming to be part of a special event.
And we want the organizer of the special event then to get that information.
So it's, again, making sure they have their state license, their fire inspection, and proof
of insurance. And so that's what this particular change does in Section 8-3-5. Any
questions on that amendment?
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: So I'm looking at -- excuse me. My popcorn. I'm looking at one of the
comment cards that we received regarding, I think, this 8-B. Actually, we just moved
past that, didn't we?
WESLEY: No, that's --
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. That's on the next one. Never mind. Thank you very much for
letting me test my microphone.
WESLEY: Vice Mayor --
GRZYBOWSKI: So that's not this one. Which one are we -- we're on 23-10 now, right?
Page 46 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
WESLEY: We are.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. So item 8-B is in question because it's already in place by the
county. So why are we also pursuing all that?
WESLEY: The idea here again, Vice Mayor, is that when we have a special event going
on in town and that special event is including food trucks, we want to make sure those
food trucks have their proper licenses through the state, through the county. And so
this is just asking -- requiring the organizer of a special event to get -- have those
vendors provide that information to them, that they have these registrations.
GRZYBOWSKI: Oh. I just always -- guess I always thought that that was common
knowledge and that they already did that. Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And this one, when I was reading through
these agenda items, I thought, this is a great balance because this is a tough issue.
Because as someone who likes the variety of food trucks -- I mean, it's always like, oh,
you know, what does that food truck have? What kind of, you know, fun taco or
whatever do they have? I find an incredible interest in that.
But we also don't want to give food trucks, who do not have brick and mortar presence
in our town, an unfair advantage over our brick and mortar businesses. So I think we
have to regulate them, but we have to delicately regulate them. Because if they're just
coming in town for one event, we want to make sure we collect sales tax, but we don't
need to have the business license procedure and things. But we have to make sure that
our brick and mortar businesses are protected from people stealing their business,
basically, with no overhead. So I think this does a great job.
But Councilwoman Grzybowski mentioned the comments on this. And I don't know if,
Mr. Wesley, if you have that there. But the Chamber of Commerce said that B was an
issue, and so did Swette Ice Cream said B was an issue. When I read B, that's the
change, right? And B does not seem objectionable to me. I wish either one of them was
here to give us more information so that we can make the right call. I mean, what I see
here, this seems like common sense. It protects our brick and mortar businesses -- and
Page 47 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
we are blessed to have people come to our events. But we also have some brick and
mortar businesses that have food trucks. And I know they're very profitable. It looks
like Swette Ice Cream is one of them. There's also another prominent brick and mortar
that has a food truck, and I think they do very well with it. And they park next to the
Golden Eagle Park during events. So that's also something to think about. But I wish -- I
see a light on from someone that might know something about the chamber business.
So I'll be quiet. Hopefully we'll know tomorrow.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Councilmember Skillicorn. I didn't mean to seem
impatient watching you talk, but I just wanted to make sure I had my little piece here.
So I believe that the comments that we are reading, where it addresses part B, I believe
they're actually speaking about the next agenda item and the B in that, which is
addressing their ability to park next to parks.
SKILLICORN: Okay.
TOTH: When it comes to the change -- I lost it. I'm so sorry. The change that we were
earlier talking about, it's on your slide, at least, the state license, pass fire inspection,
and proof of insurance. That all is slightly different than what they -- just to give, also,
the note about special events. That is different than what is required by the county.
The county requires that a special event planner is sending the business name, contact
information, and the health permit number. Now, as far as I'm aware, those items are
required in order to get a health permit; does that sound correct --
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember --
TOTH: -- Director Wesley?
WESLEY: -- I'm afraid that's not in my area to know what those requirements are, so.
TOTH: That's okay. I do know that they have the fire inspection. They have to have a
fire --
GRZYBOWSKI: Fire extinguisher.
TOTH: Thank you. Extinguisher. My goodness. Okay. I know they have the fire
extinguisher. I know they have to have the inspection. I believe they -- I know they
Page 48 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
have to have the state license in order to get the health permit. And I believe insurance
is also required in order to get the health permit. So I think the concern that Vice Mayor
Grzybowski brought up is, are we being redundant with this section if that is already
required at the county level?
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Well, I thank you for answering my concern
about 23-10. To address a little bit of that, that paragraph isn't all about county health
inspections and county licenses. It specifically lays out TPT and such. So that is
pertinent to Fountain Hills. I'm okay with it. And I'd actually like to make a motion to
approve it as drafted.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I have a question, if you don't mind.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
MCMAHON: Betsy, the Chamber of Commerce person, she's concerned and says what
the Swette Ice Cream truck won't be able to serve their youth while playing at the parks
if we pass this.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's the next one.
MCMAHON: Oh, okay. I'm sorry.
WESLEY: Actually, yes. Well, Mayor and --
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
WESLEY: They're actually interrelated here, and I will talk about that piece in a minute.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Thank you.
Do we have any speaker cards? Because we have a motion, and --
WESLEY: Yeah. So -- and I appreciate that. I haven't been into the section 8 or 7 yet, at
all. So it depends upon where council wants to go. I do have a couple of possible
tweaks to the rest of the ordinance that I would like to discuss.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Go ahead.
WESLEY: So the rest of this ordinance does then create the new Article 8-7 for the
mobile food vendors. The first section establishes the purpose. Section 2 sets some
Page 49 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
definitions. The main ones to keep in mind here, a mobile food unit is your typical food
truck that will go park somewhere and people come up to it while it's parked there and
it's preparing different types of food. Here, one potential change is included in here. I
got some feedback on this from Councilmember McMahon suggesting we add "or
unenclosed" to the definition. So it's not just enclosed trailers. We could have on
unenclosed trailers. And so if that's acceptable to the council, we would make that
definition change.
And then the other one is the mobile conveyance unit. Again, a fancy term again for the
ice cream truck. So the difference here between the mobile food unit is the broad title
for any type of food vendor, mobile food vendor. But the more specific, if you're going
from place -- driving down the street and somebody flags you down to stop and give
them something -- again, like the ice cream truck -- that's a mobile conveyance unit or
that's the person with the bicycle or the person with the handcart, pushcart. That's a
mobile conveyance unit. That's the difference, kind of. So some of the regulations later
on deal with mobile conveyance units a little bit differently.
Then, going on. In the definitions, another one we have in there, right-of-way. It was
suggested that we add sidewalk in there. Just make that clear because there are other
places where we talk about the sidewalk, but it's not mentioned here. And so it seemed
reasonable to make that adjustment in the definition from what was in the packet.
Moving on. Then require that the vendors provide a state license to meet those
licensing requirements. Then we set up some town licensing requirements. Again, we
exempt from these requirements anybody that's just coming for a special event versus
somebody that's planning to operate outside those events. And so this section then lists
those requirements. The license would be valid for one year.
It then goes on to provide some of the process for that. And based on our current fee
schedule for similar type activities, it would be a $250 fee for that one-year license.
Section 5 deals with violations and revocations and how we would handle those.
Section 6 then gets into the real meat of the ordinance for what people will see, and
that's operational requirements. And so the food vendors need to comply with this and
Page 50 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
comply with the fire code. There's provision there about handling trash and debris;
about noise, both in terms of having loudspeakers that project any noise and also the
generators associated often with these trucks; that they are maintaining good order and
screened as necessary. Providing for a safe environment around the unit. If they're on
town property, providing proof of insurance.
And then we get into locations. So state statute, a few years ago, preempted cities and
towns to some degree with regard to this type of use. That's one of the reasons that
we're talking about it this evening. Legal parking spaces within the town are -- mobile
food vendors can use those by right, basically, through the state. We're able to put on
some regulations, such as what we're doing tonight, but we can't prohibit them from
using a parking space in the right-of-way.
But we can prohibit them in residential areas. So we are doing that for the mobile food
unit, but still allowing the mobile conveyance units. Again, the ice cream truck driving
down the residential street, that would still be allowed. And then otherwise in
commercial industrial areas, in any legal parking spaces, that's where the food trucks
can set up. In other locations, if you're on town property, you'd need town approval or
be part of a special event. And then if you are on private property, not in the right-of-
way, would require administrative permit to be issued. So we can review the setup and
make sure it's not taking too many parking spaces, blocking any safety lanes or drive
aisles, that type of thing.
And there are also provisions about where they can park. So today a person comes in to
get the administrative permit. They give us a site plan. Say, I'm going to set up at this
location. Here's how I'm going to do it. If they want to set up someplace else, they'd
have to come back, get another administrative permit. Once we adopt this ordinance
with the criteria in the code, they can go wherever they want to on any given day as
long as they meet the criteria that are listed. And so have to come back on an individual
basis, so it makes it easier for them.
So these criteria are in the code, up to nine hours in one location. If you're in a parallel
parking space, one space; if you've got angled spaces, you can use two. Cannot use
Page 51 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
parking spaces -- parking lot with too few spaces. Cannot conduct business in a park or
adjacent street. This has an exception, though, for the mobile conveyance units. So if
you are the ice cream truck, you can go to a town park for up to 30 minutes. To
ballgames, just getting over, you drive up, get all the kids as they're leaving the game or
you want to go down to the splash pad. But just go through there, 30 minutes, you're
out, and you're not taking up a lot of the town parking lot or those types of activities.
So it does have that exception already in there for up to thirty minutes. And that, again,
I think, is what the comment cards were referring to. And I'm not sure if they read that
section or understood there was an exception in there for them to be able to be in the
park.
And there's also a provision that you have to be at least 300 feet away from a special
event if you're not part of the special event. Because that's been a concern. Sometimes
these units set up right outside an event and they're not really part of it, and it disrupts
some of the traffic flows and other things that we're trying to do. And so we want to
provide some distance. Cannot really claim a specific location 50 feet from an
intersection and serving window away from the traffic lanes.
No additional signage. There, again, some special provisions for street or sidewalk
vending. And this gets back to the mobile conveyance units driving down the street.
They can stop at any spot for up to 15 minutes. If you're the pushcart operating on a
sidewalk, we can expect you to mostly keep moving, but you can stop for up to 15
minutes in one spot. And so that is this ordinance.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Mayor, and thank you, Director Wesley. Could you do me a favor and
go back to the slide that went over some of the suggested amendments because -- or
changes.
WESLEY: Ther were two, and they were in the definitions. That that's one, to add
sidewalk.
TOTH: Okay. Thank you.
WESLEY: And right-of-way. And the mobile food unit to have unenclosed trailers
Page 52 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
included.
TOTH: Okay. Thank you. So that's very helpful to see that language again, and thank
you.
I know we have at least one that does utilize an unenclosed trailer. So I do very much
feel as though we should make that change. I also had a concern when it came to our
noise requirement. How does that affect the ice cream truck when they are allowed to
drive down residential roads, being able to play the music?
WESLEY: Which is -- where am I? Check and see exactly how that's written to make
sure we are good with that.
TOTH: Thank you so much.
WESLEY: Oops, I went too far. It's hard to remember exactly where that was in the
code. I was right here. Let's see here. Thank you. I think there's another one, though.
There's another one that gets into that detail about the generator, and I'm reading over
it, trying to find it here right now.
TOTH: Oh, that's actually okay. My concern wasn't with the generator. It was just with
the --
WESLEY: No, yeah. Yes. Yes, councilmember. I want to read the language --
TOTH: Sorry.
WESLEY: -- to know if there was an exemption for what you're talking about here.
TOTH: Thank you.
WESLEY: Let's see here. Oh, here it is, right here. Okay.
Okay. So yes, as written. That would prohibit the ice cream truck that does often play
that little bit of music from doing so, because it says, "shall not play", and lists all those
things, "whether stationary or mobile upon a right-of-way".
TOTH: Thank you so much for bringing that up. So just for those keeping track at home,
we have the change to include unenclosed trailers, the change to the sidewalk, one --
I'm so sorry. We'll just use your language, John. And I would also like to add as a
suggestion, changing 8-7-6-E, where it would allow for, perhaps, we could say, music at
a certain volume -- a certain decibel level or some way where we're still protecting
Page 53 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
people, but we're allowing for the ice cream truck. The ice cream music is kind of fun.
It's a little scary when you're watching a spooky movie and it drives by and you hear,
like, Tight children's music outside the house. But that only happened once, so it's okay.
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember, sort of the easy thing to do would be to add, except
mobile conveyance units in here. So that would limit it to that type of activity. I'd be
more challenged right now to come up with a decibel level or anything like that,
particularly since other places in the code we've gotten rid of decibel limits as a
measure. And having -- being able to do that we've determined is a challenge. But if
the council is comfortable with it, we could just make that blanket --
MAYOR DICKEY: Could it be --
WESLEY: -- exception.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- self-limiting? Because the mobile -- the conveyance ones can only be
there for a certain amount of time. Is there -- they are in a residential area because they
can be, right, the ice cream trucks? But could they, like, move and then move like 20
feet and then do it again for 30? Because then, I think, hearing the music might be a
little -- might be something. I mean, I agree with you. I think, how are you going to
know that they're there?
MCMAHON: But this is a special event right?
FRIEDEL: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, yes. Gerry.
FRIEDEL: Mayor?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, go ahead.
FRIEDEL: I have a question, too, about the time limit down by the splash pad. So if
these folks are in business, they've got to conduct their business within a half hour? It
doesn't seem like that's enough time. And I want to get -- I want to hear what other
councilmembers might have to say about that. And if that's the case, would they be
able to move and then have another half hour or can we extend that half hour? It just
doesn't seem like, on a hot summer day when there's kids running down by the splash
pad, that that's just not quite enough time for them to do their business down at the
Page 54 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
splash pad. So I'd like to see that extended somewhat, if we can.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: The 30-minute thing was one of the things that I had circled on my notes
here. I kind of have a problem with that too. I kind of understand where the concept is
coming from, and 30 minutes might be enough time. But if there's a line of kids, which
could happen in the middle of August, you can't just go, hey, sorry, we're done, we hit
30 minutes, and leave. So I feel like we need to extend it somehow.
Then the other thing I wanted to mention, one of the council people brought up that we
need to protect our brick and mortar businesses over the food trucks. And I appreciate
that concept. But food trucks are a part of business, and we actually have a number of
food truck owners in town that would take exception to that particular comment. And I
know that the chamber has food truck members.
So I don't want to -- I don't want to make the blanket statement that we need to protect
one over the other. We need to be here and make sure that they can all do business
together. That being said, that would be another reason to allow them in the park areas
over asking them to be on the streets, is because that would get them away from some
of the other main street brick and mortar restaurants. They would have an opportunity
to go hang out at the park.
I don't know how anybody else feels about the 30 minutes, but I do kind of have a
problem with that time constraint.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Ditto. A lot of my thoughts on the 30 minutes were just said, so I'll keep that
part very short. I do agree that we should extend that.
I also want to echo that it does keep them from therefore parking in front of a business,
which has been a complaint we've received, where a restaurant says, there's a food
truck in front of me all day.
My other point would also be about the brick and mortar, where we do have several
that are strictly -- or at least two that are strictly food trucks and don't have a brick and
mortar restaurant, but they live here in Fountain Hills. So they are still our business
Page 55 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
owners, and I do believe we should still look out for them. And I am always for less
government oversight over more. So 1 would really like to just keep that in mind as
we're amending this.
WESLEY: Mayor, if 1 may? The state statutes specifically were written so that they can't
limit where the food truck can go in front of another restaurant or anything like that. If
it's a public parking space, they can go there. That's already protected through the state
statute. And one other thing, if you don't mind, real quick. On this one, we're talking
about for the 30 minutes in the park, that exception is just for the mobile conveyance
units. It's not for the other more permanent food trucks to set up business.
MCMAHON: Quickly, where's the time constraint? 1 can't find it right now. Which
section of the -- oh.
WESLEY: For that 30 minutes?
MCMAHON: Yep.
WESLEY: It's in 8-7-6-1-- whoops, 1-5.
MCMAHON: Thank you.
WESLEY: So this 30 minutes was a little bit of a negotiation with our parks folks. So I
don't know if Kevin really wants to come up and talk about it or not, as you're talking
about extending the time, but I'll give him that opportunity if he wants to.
MCMAHON: Councilwoman? Hannah, did you have one?
TOTH: I'll let Kevin take it for now.
MAYOR DICKEY: 1 think that (indiscernible).
SNIPES: Mayor and Council, so a couple of things that make this a particularly tough
question to try and find the right way to go. One is the size of our parking lots and our
parks, and trying to get people into them, and then having a truck parked in there
serving food takes up at least two spots, if not three or four.
And then you have lines of kids that are now in the parking lot, standing out, potentially
out into the area where cars are now driving. And so we're adding some risk into this as
well.
The other thing, as we talk about having them there instead of in front of a brick and
Page 56 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
mortar, at Fountain Park, for example, we do have a yogurt place that I'm sure would
rather not have the ice cream trucks come in. That doesn't mean that one is better or
worse than the other; it just now competition is driving into their backyard, so to speak.
And then, as far as when we start looking at the times of how long that we're allowing
them to be there, so if they're there for an hour and now you have a line, then does it
make it okay to be there an hour, two hours, three hours? However, that is at any given
time, there could be a group of kids that decide to come over to the food truck. And so
how do you -- how do you make that decision?
I mean, I'm open to any other thoughts or suggestions for that. But that's what makes it
very difficult to make this decision, I think.
TOTH: Thank you for coming up without notice. My question would be, do we have a
significant number of examples, like, if that was a Little League tournament or whatever
it might have been, of the food truck causing an issue when it came to parking in our
parks?
SNIPES: I would say that that would be a significant issue any weekend when the splash
pad's open, the playgrounds are being used. We have pretty full parking lots. Any time
we have tournaments, all three of the parking lots at Golden Eagle are full to relatively
full. Just with the tournament users, you're talking having eight teams plus eight more
teams that are waiting to come into play in that transition time. So you're talking a
whole lot of cars. And why we allow parking on the street on Golden Eagle is because
there's not nearly enough parking to handle the tournaments.
TOTH: I do completely see your point on Golden Eagle. I remember the Little League
days, Dad all mad trying to find a parking spot, you know? I think my main concern
and -- I have two main concerns. One is when we say that we are just accepting mobile
conveyance, that basically means ice cream truck or, like, a snack, not -- okay. Can you
help me with what conveyance means?
SNIPES: That's the type of vehicle. So that could be anything that's in a self-contained
unit, correct? That's not a trailer.
TOTH: Okay.
Page 57 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
WESLEY: Mayor, Councilmember. So yes, the mobile conveyance units are by definition
supposed to be moving from place to place and not stay more than 15 minutes,
typically, at any one place, although 30 minutes in the park is already an expansion of
the typical 30-minute time frame. They could stop if they were just driving down the
street. But they aren't really setting up shop like the other food trucks do.
TOTH: Thank you. Okay. So that quells my one concern. And thank you.
I do still want to advocate for increasing that time only because if we're already going to
be letting them there for 30 minutes, we might as well give them the opportunity to hit
that crowd. And I do think 30 minutes is cutting it a little bit close.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. Yeah. Just really quickly, a couple of thoughts.
But yeah, parking a food truck in front of a brick and mortar restaurant or an ice cream
truck in front of an ice cream store really, really bothers me. And I know there are state
statutes covering this. But the people that are sponsoring the event, running the event,
I have absolute confidence in their good judgment that they would avoid putting -- and
especially, in our temporary -- like, there are weekend festivals and stuff, that they
wouldn't put a food truck in front of a restaurant. And so I think sometimes you just
have to have a leap of faith. That said, you know, there are intelligent people making
these decisions, and they wouldn't do that. So that's what -- I think, it fixes itself just
with a little bit of common sense.
And then the other thing I'd like to do is just move to approve with the amendment of
the 45 minutes instead of the 30 minutes.
SNIPES: Mayor, councilmember, just to clarify. So this is not about an event going on.
This is day-to-day. So this could be anybody coming in at any time, not an event
organizer or the town making a choice.
KALIVIANAKIS: Yeah, we're kind of doing two agenda items at once, and we're all kind
of taking a bite at the apple. So I just wanted to get at it, like everybody else did.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I just see if we have any cards? Because once we make a motion,
I'm not supposed to take cards.
Page 58 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MENDENHALL: Mayor, we just have the cards that are in your packet --
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
MENDENHALL: -- and that's it. Nobody has requested to speak on this item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we have a motion to approve as presented, except for
making the 30 minutes 45 minutes, correct?
KALIVIANAKIS: That's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Do we have a second?
TOTH: I -- sorry. Am I allowed to ask a question before I second? Does this also include
the other amendments, the unenclosed trailer and the sidewalk amendment?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
TOTH: Okay. Then second.
MCMAHON: That's what I was --
MAYOR DICKEY: It doesn't include the water -- I mean the music, though.
TOTH: Oh, right.
MAYOR DICKEY: So wait. So let's -- we have a motion on the floor. Do we have a
second?
MCMAHON: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So we have a second. Now, if you want to amend that, you can,
if you want to add the music thing. But I don't know, like, the parameters of it -- but,
you know.
TOTH: So we would then vote on my motion to amend? I understand. Thank you,
Mayor. Motion to amend to also include --
GRZYBOWSKI: An exception --
TOTH: -- an exception for --
GRZYBOWSKI: -- for conveyance units under the loudspeaker.
TOTH: What Vice Mayor said and for mobile conveyance units under the 8-7-6-E for
noise.
MAYOR DICKEY: Very good. So we have an amendment. And do you want it -- do you
want to discuss it? Oh, you have an amendment. Wait --
Page 59 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
SKILLICORN: Second the amendment.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, okay. All right. So we could vote on the music, and then we can
vote on the whole shebang. So let's take a roll call on the amendment, please.
MCMAHON: Let's have some music.
MENDENHALL: Okay. [Singing]. No, I'm kidding.
Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Pro -music. Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. Any further discussion on the main motion before we
take a roll call on that? All right. It's just changed the 30, and everything else is the
same. All right. Roll call, please.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Yes.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
Page 60 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
So now we've already talked about this next one, right?
WESLEY: For the most part --
MAYOR DICKEY: But go on.
WESLEY: -- a few tweaks and the additional part in 12-3-8. So I'II just jump into it, if
that's okay, Mayor.
So we're proposing two changes to section 12-3 of the town code dealing with parking,
one dealing with the mobile food vendors and other inoperable vehicles. So what's
being proposed in 12-3-3 is to add two sections, a B and a C, to cover the mobile food
vendors. So B, deals with parks and mirrors some of the language that we just talked
about in the mobile food vendor ordinance.
But, as was pointed out, it does not include the same exception for mobile conveyance
units in parks that was brought to my attention earlier. So my proposal here is that we
insert the language that I have added at the bottom and close to the end of that phrase
there. So that it would refer them to, now, the 45-minute exception in the food vendor
ordinance that would allow them to be in the parks or adjacent street.
So that keeps us consistent and hopefully does what what the concern -- or addresses
the concern.
And then for special events, again, this just mirrors what was in the code saying that you
can't be within 300 feet of a special event.
And the other change that's being included, based on some situations we've
experienced recently, our code currently talks about abandoned vehicles in right-of-
ways and not being allowed to stay. But sometimes it can be difficult to determine if a
vehicle's abandoned. A little bit easier to determine it's inoperable. It doesn't have
Page 61 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
valid tags, it's got flat tires, whatever, so it can't move.
And so this gives us a little bit more flexibility and ability to address those types of
vehicles by also making them illegal in the right-of-way. And so this provides a
definition. In addition to the civil citation, lets us use other means in the code, which
could give us to the opportunity to tow a vehicle.
And then what's in here as B is the piece that's in the code today that we're amending.
Any questions on this one?
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible)?
MENDENHALL: No, Mayor, we don't have any cards. The ones that are in the packet, I
believe, address both 9 and C.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
WESLEY: Yes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
MCMAHON: I will make a motion to adopt ordinance 23-14.
KALIVIANAKIS: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Any further discussion? I just want to mention that we did
notify the businesses, so -- and we got those comments back. But basically, it didn't
seem like there's too much opposition, so. All right. Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: I'm so sorry. Can I ask a question?
MAYOR DICKEY: Sure.
TOTH: Thank you. That includes John's suggestion to say except -- okay. Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
Page 62 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you all. I appreciate it.
The next item is ordnance re having to do with vice mayor. Rachael, do you want to
introduce, please?
GOODWIN: Sure. This is an item that was requested by Councilmember Skillicorn to
amend our rules of procedure and how we designate the vice mayor, as well as some
changes to the administrative process and the scope of the vice mayor role.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Yeah. This is just a simple update to rolls. I
think one of the comment cards that was actually against it mentioned that the current
process is equitable. That's actually what I'm trying to avoid, is that it should be about
merit, not equity. We want someone to do the job, not just to be a figurehead in the
role of vice mayor. I remember going to many events, and someone else had to go back
to the town hall and pick up a fountain pen or something because the vice mayor wasn't
there. So I want someone to do the job. But also if for some reason -- if the President
gives our mayor a call and wants to move our mayor up to something in Washington,
DC, we have someone ready to go that can do the job to adequately represent the
town. I think that's important.
And also, I think that there's definitely been some agenda items that we've been waiting
a long, long, long time for. I think that that's an important part of the procedure of the
vice mayor and mayor to have a compromise of what's on the agenda. And I think that's
how a diplomatic and democratic system should work.
MCMAHON: Which section are we addressing? Are we addressing both at once, or are
we going to separate them?
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, we have a -- we have, basically it could be two motions, a motion
to approve or deny ordinance 23-17 and a motion to approve or deny resolution.
Page 63 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MCMAHON: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: So you can take whichever one you like first.
MCMAHON: We can just keep it as one. I've served as vice mayor, and it's an honor to
do so. And it's an honor when Mayor Dickey asked me to stand in her place when she
was unable to stand. I realized, as Sharron does, you're titled with vice mayor, but you
also know, per the the Arizona statute, that you absolutely have no powers until a
condition precedent happens. And it's a legal condition precedent.
And you only have powers as a vice mayor, if you want to even call it powers, is if and
when the mayor is unable to act, period. It's Arizona statute. It's what every city and
town follows.
So in essence, the mayor is not in being until that condition precedent happens. So how
can you, arbitrarily, give the vice mayor, who has no power, power to coauthor or
approve the mayor's agenda selections? It doesn't make any sense from my point of
view. I think it's a power grab. I think that your comment about it's taken forever to get
items on the agenda is misplaced, because as you -- we all -- look at this agenda. There
are a lot of items on it. There's a lot of items coming up. And it's not because the mayor
personally doesn't want them on the agenda at a certain time or space. It's because
there are so much that the staff is doing and that we're looking at, we can't just dogpile
and not have adequate discussions about them.
So I disagree with you. I think this is a power play, and I don't think it's appropriate.
And I would really also hate to see a change in our unique way that the vice mayor is
selected and rotated. I look at you, I look at Brenda, and I look at Councilmember Toth,
and I think it's really important, after serving for three years as a councilmember, that
each of you have the opportunity to work with the mayor and stand in her stead in case
she is unable to do so and when she asks you to do so.
And to think that it is unequitable, I just don't understand that way of thinking at all. So
I am not at all for any of these changes that you're proposing. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. I'm a person that appreciates out -of -the -box
Page 64 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
thinking, and this is certainly out -of -the -box thinking.
Our country was founded on checks and balances, and that's very important to our
system. Generally, it's the three branches of government checking each other, and in
this case, it's a variant of that.
In constitutional governments, there should be checks and balances. That's good public
policy. If you go back in history, the Greek historian Polybius wrote about the Roman
Empire, and they had three divisions there. The first was the monarchy or the council.
The second was the aristocracy, the Senate, and they held the money. And then third
was the democracy, the people. The people held the power because if they didn't like --
if they were starving, they could riot. They could hold the government responsible and
have civil disrespect.
So if you fast -forward to the framers of the Constitution, they also respected those
principles, too. They took guidance from Montesquieu, William Blackstone, and they
implemented the checks and balances policies into our government that we enjoy
today.
And so in the 30,000-foot overview, I think it probably makes for good policy. In this
case, however, I think the system has been running pretty well. Whenever -- anything
we addressed this several -- I think, several times earlier. Now we're putting things on
the agenda at the end of our meetings. I'm very happy with that procedure and
everything that I think we've been wanting. I don't know what we're waiting for to be
agendized, but I think everything's been on the agenda.
And then my second concern over this ordinance is, is it legal? Is it something that we
can do? I did my own research. I talked to Aaron, our town attorney, and I think it
could be questionable whether this is legal to grant and delegate authority to somebody
that's covered by a state statute. And as Councilwoman McMahon said, it is covered by
a statute that there are no duties, but for when this person is filling in for the honorable
mayor. And so that's why I see, there's some problems with it. I appreciate the out -of -
the -box thinking, but I'm not sure if this is the right time to go down this road.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
Page 65 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
GRZYBOWSKI: While neither one of these -- well, one's an ordinance and one's a
resolution. While neither one of these things are recommended by the staff -- the
second one because of state statute -- the first one, where the vice mayor can be voted
on and removed by council, honestly, it could easily be turned into a pissing match
between council people, and it can be changed a number of times through the year,
wasting valuable council time.
The U.S. House was at a standstill for three weeks waiting on their new majority leader.
This leads to backroom deals and will be unfair to our voters and potential business
owners or landowners that are looking for zoning changes or other issues that may
require our attention.
Just like I do not believe that we, as a governing body, should be governing ourselves, I
do not believe that we should either be giving ourselves a raise or changing our job
description. Doing so gives the perception of deceit and a selfish grab of power. If this
is something that the council truly wants to do, my suggestion would be that none of
the seated members on the council should be able to benefit from this. So it would be a
future effective December 2026 kind of thing. That would be my suggestion, if we're
considering this at all. It should not impact anybody that's currently seated and voting
on it. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: I do want to bring up, just for those who haven't read the staff summary or those
that are listening here, the second item, which is the resolution, it does say that because
of A.R.S. 9-23-6, that state law says that the vice mayor acts only in the absence of the
mayor. So that's what we're talking about when the other council members have
mentioned that.
That second portion is -- it's not viable with state statute. And because of that, it does
kind of make the first one, the ordinance, moot. Thank you.
And that's pretty much what I had to say. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Gerry, did you have any comments?
FRIEDEL: Yes. Having seen that summary that says it's not really followed by law -- and I
Page 66 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
don't think it helps move the town forward. I like the traditional effort that we've had
with the vice mayor role going back many, many years in this town. So I would not -- I
would not be in favor of it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Gerry. Oh, council -- I was going to say, if we have any
speaker cards. Do we have any speaker cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. First in your packet, we have written comments, 20
people. And then we had a person, in person, want a comment written, and all of them
are opposed to the idea.
And then we do have people in person who'd like to speak on this issue. And our first
will be Pam Cap (ph.), followed by Matthew Corrigan.
CAP: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. My name is Pam Cap. I've
resided here seven years now. When we have a council with a majority block -- uh-oh --
a majority block that refuses to listen to its people, they write legislation that benefits
them themselves, not their constituents, like the way the ethics violation complaint
procedure was changed. Nothing was wrong with the ordinance. The only problem was
more citizens were filing complaints. So the answer was to change the ordinance to
make it more difficult to file a complaint against an elected official. It benefits the
politician, not the people.
Just like we have here regarding the vice mayor. First, let's ask what's wrong with the
process? Right now, each councilmember gets a chance at vice mayor based on the
final vote tally of their election. Councilmember McMahon handed her vice mayor off
to Councilmember Grzybowski, and she will hand hers off to Councilmember Friedel,
then Councilmembers Kalivianakis, Toth, and lastly, Skillicorn.
Having a voting block, just like we have now, can control that seat just by voting
repeatedly for the same councilmember or party. This would block others from voting --
from taking this position.
Now, why control the seat that essentially is a procedural courtesy and provides for the
vice mayor to step in only in the mayor's absence? Skillicorn's amendment includes just
that. Skillicorn wants the vice mayor to have the final say on the agenda. According to
E--
Page 67 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
the way Skillicorn wrote the procedure, now the mayor must set the agenda with the
consent of the vice mayor. Talk about power grab.
I ask that this council reject this amendment and consider that the division and chaos
this will create. Right now, we are divided because of the bond defeat and national
politics. Please bring us together. This amendment is overreach at its finest by
Councilmember Skillicorn. It's a way to play games with what will go on the agenda, and
it's a title he should have to wait for, like everyone else has before. So I ask you, please
vote no. Thank you.
CORRIGAN: Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. Matthew Corrigan, homeowner, full-time
resident of Fountain Hills.
In making decisions, I try to always use an analytical approach. So I attempt to make an
honest research of the issue or topic -- that's the first thing -- and make a physical or
mental note of those issues. Councilmember, did you have a question? Okay.
I consider priorities. Is there an urgency? What is the cost of action or inaction? In the
case of our Fountain Hills town government, is there a consensus from the people?
What do property owners, residents, and business owners want? Maybe most
important in all of these other considerations, is there a compelling need for action, and
is it needed now? I have looked at all of this. And in regard to Councilmember
Skillicorn's ordinance 23-17, and in my opinion, it seems to lack that compelling need for
immediate action.
While I commend and appreciate Councilmember Skillicorn's desire to improve town
government and the council, it might be more productive to add this issue after the
August 6th, 2024 election so that the council, at that time, is able to be involved in the
decision -making process in regard to the office of vice mayor. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Are there any -- any other --
MENDENHALL: One more.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, I'm sorry.
MENDENHALL: Gene Slechta.
MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry about that.
Page 68 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
SLECHTA: Thank you, Mayor, Town Council. I also do not support this agenda item 9-E,
modifying the process to select a vice mayor. It's a proposal that's a waste of time. It's
a waste of resources, staff, and other resources. It does not make any sense. The
current process has been in place for a very long time, as long as I can remember. I've
been here 28 years. There has never been voiced objections to the process, because it
works and it's fair. So don't screw it up by adding a political step that can only increase
the divisiveness that a few try so hard to accomplish. I have yet to meet a citizen here in
town that's ever said to me, you know, I think the council should elect the vice mayor.
Let's vote no on this. Let's go work on real issues, roads, finances. We shouldn't be
wasting our time on this. Every time a council member creates a frivolous agenda item,
and this is a perfect example, it unleashes a significant need for town resources and a
waste of valuable time for elected officials and volunteers. So vote no. Stop wasting
resources to make a splash in the media. Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Now we're finished with public comment on this item.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you so much.
Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I kind of like facts, so I want to point out, on
August 22nd, Councilmember Friedel made a request for agenda item for inspections in
group homes; we've yet to see that agenda item. On August 22nd, I also made a
request for insurance on group homes. After I made that request, I actually drafted the
ordinance myself. I used Phoenix's example, has passed their muster, and submitted it.
So that that has actually been done. We're still waiting.
In September, a group of citizens approached me and asked me to do the same thing
about Councilmember Friedel's request. So I requested in September for the
inspections to be added to the agenda and to follow up. I drafted that ordinance
myself. Again, I used Phoenix's and Glendale's ordinance as an example, and we're still
waiting.
And I think it's a pretty good reason why the powers should be that it should be the
consent of the vice mayor, because it really should be a compromise. If the mayor
Page 69 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
wants something and the majority that elected the vice mayor want something, they
should work it out. And there should be a compromise, a give-and-take there. And I
think that's how democracy and diplomacy works. Currently, we don't have that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
TOTH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And thank you, Councilmember Skillicorn. I do think
we need to address those agenda items. However, with this resolution being not
statutorily permissible, meaning that the vice mayor acts only in the absence of the
mayor, I'm concerned if this would not have the effect that appears to be the goal.
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, I want to comment on that, is that counsel gives us advice.
Counsel does not craft policy for the council, and it's still our determination if we accept
that advice or not. Counsel is on retainer from us, and we can make our own decisions
based on what we read. And having a phone call conversation about a compromise on
agenda item is not in violation of state law.
MAYOR DICKEY: So obviously, I'm not enamored with this. I think that the idea that I
haven't put stuff on the agenda is pretty much 100 percent false. I think this is a pretty
good example that I put everything on the agenda that I can in a timely manner.
Those items you talked about, first of all, yes, he did request -- Councilman requested
group home thing, and it's on the next agenda. And when you redid it, that didn't
change a thing. It was already planned. But as you pointed out, and as everybody sees,
these agendas are full, and they will be ready when they're ready. That's just the fact of
life.
So I've not said no to anything. When you get support for things, most of the times I'll
put it on. But you know, will somebody pick up a phone and ask me about something?
Not very many of you. A couple of you will, thank you.
So this is -- the fact that this is on an agenda proves I put anything on an agenda. And
the fact that we have counsel, who are attorney, telling us what is legal and what isn't is
exactly why we need that. We're not legal attorneys. We don't have engineering
degrees. We've been through this a million times.
So anyway, I am not in favor of this. And I love the rotations, obviously. I think it's
Page70of80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
great. It hasn't just been for ribbon cuttings. It's been for lunches and for meetings. I
copy the vice mayor on the emails that I get, because I get a ton of emails. And so like
Sharron's been graced with getting a lot of the insight. You had it, and whoever's next
will do that also. And it's great. It's another perspective. And I think it's a really good
system, and everybody does get the chance to do it for, like, eight months or whatever
it is. So I am not in favor of changing it either.
Yes. Vice Mayor?
GRZYBOWSKI: I'm ready to make a motion to deny. Do we want to do these separate?
MCMAHON: Do them both at the same. Well, he can do it separate --
MAYOR DICKEY: I think we can do it at the same time.
GRZYBOWSKI: Okay. I would like to make a motion to deny both ordinance 23-17 and
deny resolution 2023-39.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Can we get a roll call, please? And "aye" means denying.
GRZYBOWSKI: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: No.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Page 71 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
Moving on to the two-way radio equipment maintenance with the City of Mesa. And
and then we have another item related quite right after that. So we'll have the chief
come up here and do those for us.
OTT: Good evening. Welcome back.
MAYOR DICKEY: Still here?
OTT: Oh, yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: You snuck out out of here.
OTT: Hopefully, I'll be giddy until I retire in a couple of years. But it truly is a passion,
and I do appreciate that. So I think the item is the maintenance agreement with the City
of Mesa. And it's really more of a formality. Ordinarily, probably would not have
brought something of this level to the council for approval. But just so that we've got
kind of transparency that Mesa is a big supporter of ours moving forward with this.
They've got the technology and the personnel to be able to back us up and provide
another level of service to us as far as the two-way radio communication goes. That
includes working on portable two-way radios, the two-way radios that are part of the --
in the fire trucks, as well as the station package and the radios that are part of that.
So their cost per hour is a little bit less, and probably the availability of their technicians
is a little bit better than what Motorola provides for us. It doesn't mean that from time
to time we won't be going to Motorola to do some services on the portable radios.
But if there's any questions, I would be happy to answer that.
It really just establishes the fact that we allow them to come into the town buildings and
work on the town property, as well as establishing a hourly rate -- competitive hourly
rate, I might say.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do you have any comment cards?
MENDENHALL: Yes, Mayor, we do. But they're all written comments. We had 16 prior
to the meeting submitted and then one here at the meeting. All of them are for this
contract, but none of them wish to speak on it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilwoman?
KALIVIANAKIS: I'd like to move to approve the two-way radio equipment maintenance
Page 72 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
agreement with the City of Mesa.
MCMAHON: Second.
FRIEDEL: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: Two seconds. Could we get a roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Yes. Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you. You're still on.
OTT: Thank you. If I could roll right into the next item? At one of the retreats, I think I
kind of had the whole -- it was a couple of bubbles that kind of showed the interaction
between the MRDC, the TRWC; it's a little bit of the chicken before the egg. The TRWC
is the TOPAZ Regional Wireless Co-op. And I think the easiest way that we've talked
about it in the past would be that MRDC is the well where the water is at, the TRWC is
the piping, and that gets that water going to where it needs to be. So the MRDC portion
of it is the dispatch, with the 911 operators, the call takers, the dispatchers in there.
And the TRWC actually owns the infrastructure that the calls go out over. So there's a
little bit of dispersion between the cost, where we'll pay Mesa Regional Dispatch for the
time that it takes to dispatch the call, and that's on a per -call basis. The TRWC will end
up paying them for the air time that it takes.
Page 73 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
So if we have a short call, we pay Tess airtime. But if we've got a long, involved incident,
that airtime will be a little bit longer. We're estimating the cost for the maintenance --
again, the TRWC kind of pulls a few more things into that, but we're pretty much talking
about not to exceed 20 to to $22,000 annually as part of our dispatch. We'd figured
that into the original budget on what it was going to take to go to the regional dispatch
system. It's really just the other part of it, and you can't really have one without the
other one.
There was some discussion early on in the process, do we become a member of TRWC
first and then wait for Mesa Regional Dispatch. The general consensus between the
members of TOPAZ, which are the seven other departments in this area that are
dispatched through Mesa, was that they would accept our application for inclusion in it.
And then, at the point we were approved by MRDC, then they would vote us in. And we
also end up with a membership in that board as well, so we'll be able to represent our
interest. We are a little bit smaller than the Phoenix -- their RWC, Regional Wireless
Consortium. There's 20-some members on the Phoenix side; we're one of the 7 on this
side of the Valley. So the TRWC is a better fit for us, and it's really the maintenance, the
projected use, and projected growth of the system all ends up being taken care of by
the TRWC.
MAYOR DICKEY: Any questions?
TOTH: I'd just like to move to approve the IG with TOPAZ Regional Wireless Co-
operative.
FRIEDEL: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: You can comment after a motion, but I didn't -- yeah. But we -- and I
think we have some written comments, right?
MENDENHALL: We do have written comment cards that are in your packet, and one
person wanted to comment in writing as well. And they're all in favor of this contract.
So it's a total of 17.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We have a motion and -- oh, and a mosquito. A motion
and a second, and could we have a roll call, please?
Page 74 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MENDENHALL: Yes. Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
GRZYBOWSKI: Aney.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thanks so much. Appreciate it.
OTT: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, Dave.
I guess I could have moved that up. I didn't think of it.
Our next item is our calendar. And when we approve, then we'll get the calendar items.
And is this Rachael or Linda?
GOODWIN: Linda.
MENDENHALL: Okay. Before you, you see our proposed calendar for the 2024 council
meeting year. The first meeting normally and traditionally is January 3rd, which would
be January 2nd. But we're moving those meetings after a holiday to that Wednesday.
So we're not recommending that meeting. That's just too difficult for staff to turn
around and get a meeting going. So we're proposing that that not happen.
And then we have all of the meetings after -- as I said before, that fall after a holiday
would be on that Wednesday. So that first meeting in 2024 would be on January 17th.
So that's a Wednesday.
And so we also take into account certain types of -- your summer break. We
Page 75 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
traditionally take that from June the 19th through August 13th, which our first meeting
would be on August 20th. We need to have it by that date to canvass the election. We
would just hold a regular meeting. That doesn't need to be a special meeting. And
that's really it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: And then -- oh, on this one also, one of our meetings -- well, it would fall
on Election Day for the general election, and that's -- we've recommended no meeting
on that day.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MENDENHALL: Does anyone have any questions about the calendar?
KALIVIANAKIS: Which date did you just refer to also?
MENDENHALL: November 5th. That is a Tuesday, and that's the general election.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I was actually going to make a motion to just
cancel the Wednesday meetings. I kind of think we could do the work without those
three. But once we take it off the calendar, it makes it harder to put it on. But I kind of
would like maybe an understanding that if it's not needed, we would cancel. You know,
the unusual day, I think, is a detriment to the town. And people think, oh, first and third
Tuesday. So I would suggest let's keep them in writing on there. But maybe I can
understand -- I would think that we could get the work done without those three days.
I'm curious what anyone else thinks.
MAYOR DICKEY: So you would say you don't want to have a January 17th meeting and
then we would have no meetings in January? And then you don't want to have February
21 and you don't want to have -- there's another one somewhere.
MENDENHALL: It should be the Labor Day.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, Labor Day.
MENDENHALL: The 9/4 meeting.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
SKILLICORN: Well, I would suggest leaving them on because it's difficult to schedule a
Page 76 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
meeting. But maybe the understanding that, if we could work hard, we could do
without that meeting.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, just so let's just vote on this as is. Do we have any other
comments or questions and --
MENDENHALL: No speaker cards.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- keep that in mind?
Brenda, sorry.
KALIVIANAKIS: Thank you, Ms. Mayor. This has really taken me by surprise because I
think I've talked to you, Rachael, and I think you, Ms. Mayor, about the meeting being
on January 3rd. And it's just I'm surprised that we're removing that. I think that we
could maybe limit the the number of agenda items and make it a lighter meeting. But I
just hate to only meet -- we have the whole Christmas break off. The next meeting is
January 17th. And to conduct no town business for that long a period of time, I find that
unsettling.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, we don't have a Christmas break. We're meeting on the 19th,
correct?
GOODWIN: Correct. I think that's -- and actually, that was a change to this year's
calendar, as generally there's only one meeting in December, the first meeting in
December, with the second meeting being postponed, and then resuming after the
holiday and we're coming back in January. After some discussion at the staff level as
well as with the mayor, it's more difficult to get contracts and items approved and
reviewed during the Christmas window in order to have them prepped and ready for
that agenda on the 3rd. It's actually more beneficial and it's more effective for us to do
that second meeting in December and try to complete as much business leading up to
the break, versus trying to come back quickly afterwards. It also affects -- it's often --
there's often a lot of leave during that time, vacations and whatnot, not just for the staff
but for our vendors and other people that we rely on to get those details back, whether
they're -- again, they're contracts or other things. So there was a logistics discussion
there, and it's reflected actually in next year's calendar as well by adding that second
Page 77 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
meeting in December back to the schedule.
MAYOR DICKEY: I think those will be decided on what those days fall on. I mean, if the
Christmas is the Wednesday and the 24th and we wouldn't have a meeting then, and if
the first meeting in January is the 7th, then we probably would have that meeting. So
this would literally mean agenda prep between Christmas and New Year's. So that's
why we took that one off.
KALIVIANAKIS: Okay. Thank you for the explanation.
MAYOR DICKEY: And the only other thing I would say is, after on the 20th of August, we
would not just have a meeting to canvass; it would just be a regular meeting, our first
meeting for the -- for after the summer break. So I would suggest making that change.
MENDENHALL: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Any other comments? Did we have any speaker cards on --
MENDENHALL: No speaker cards.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right.
GRZYBOWSKI: I was just going to move to approve as written.
MCMAHON: Yes, please.
MCMAHON: Second.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Roll call, please?
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Friedel?
FRIEDEL: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Skillicorn?
SKILLICORN: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Kalivianakis?
KALIVIANAKIS: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember McMahon?
MCMAHON: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Councilmember Toth?
TOTH: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Vice Mayor Grzybowski?
Page 78 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
GRZYBOWSKI: Aye.
MENDENHALL: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Aye. Thank you.
Our next item, we did have some people speak about the Garden and Park Place, water
mitigation. So I think that's going to be something that we'll see. There were other
items that were brought up that I didn't jot down in time. So -- but that's -- was there
anything that you all heard from people -- speakers that that need to be brought back?
Okay. Our next item is future agenda items. Councilman?
SKILLICORN: Madam Mayor, there's two items that I'd like -- I would like to add the
wireless contract that a -- agenda item, to send it to planning and zoning, so it's
transparent.
And also, I would like to have an agenda item on the storage lots, how we're going to
use utilize those.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry. I don't understand. The first one, you want us to agendize
that we're sending something to P&Z?
SKILLICORN: I want an up or down vote about sending the the work products to
planning and zoning, so planning and zoning can work on it transparently, in front of the
people, instead of being behind closed doors in secret.
MAYOR DICKEY: It was not a secret. And we don't look at something before we send it
to planning and zoning. They look at it and they send it to us. Does he have support for
this item?
MCMAHON: No. It's backwards.
MAYOR DICKEY: We are doing it, and you know that we're doing it. We just have to do
it properly.
The other item you want to see -- you want to talk about our historic sites?
SKILLICORN: Storage lots.
MAYOR DICKEY: Lots?
SKILLICORN: The storage lots where we have --
MCMAHON: Storage.
Page 79 of 80
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
NOVEMBER 21, 2023 REGULAR MEETING MINUTES
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, storage.
SKILLICORN: -- construction debris.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Well, I'm assuming we're going to do -- you mean the storage
lots that people talked about on --
SKILLICORN: Yeah. The (indiscernible) comment and --
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. And you know, we already did discuss this at length, but does
anybody want to support that?
MCMAHON: No.
TOTH: Sorry, Mayor. I just had a question. I believe when we last discussed it, we did
ask Mr. Weldy to explore alternatives. Were we already planning on an update on that
in the future?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. We were -- yes. And we talked about hiding it and landscaping
and things like that too. So yes. But we'll bring it back when you're ready. Right? Okay.
WELDY: We don't have a date for that yet, Mayor. We're working on some solutions.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Thank you.
Anything else?
Thank you. We're adjourned.
Page 80 of 80
Having no further business, Mayor Ginny Dickey adjourned the Regular Meeting
of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on November 21, 2023, at 8:48 p.m.
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
• ivA,-, 6 (Ay
Gin Dicke Mayor
da G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the
minutes of the Regular Meeting held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the
Town Hall Council Chambers on the 215t day of November 2023. I further certify
that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 19th Day of December 2023.
Linda G. Mendenhall, Town Clerk