HomeMy WebLinkAbout1995.0926/27.TCCRM.Minutes TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
iirry MINUTES OF THE COUNCIL RETREAT OF THE
FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
SEPTEMBER 26 AND 27, 1995
A Council Retreat of the Fountain Hills Town Council was convened and called to order by Mayor Cutillo
at 9:00 a.m., on Tuesday and Wednesday, September 26 and 27, 1995, at the Courtyard by Marriott,
13444 East Shea Boulevard, Scottsdale, Arizona.
Present at the retreat were the following members of the Fountain Hills Town Council: Mayor John
Cutillo, Vice Mayor Frank Clark and Councilmembers Peg Tibbetts, Bill O'Brien, Don Lawrence,
Marianne Wiggishoff,and Wally Hudson. Also,present were Town Manager Paul Nordin,Town Attorney
Bill Farrell and Town Clerk Cassie Hansen. Community Development Director Gary Jeppson, Town
Marshal Steve Gendler and Town Engineer Randy Harrel were present at varying times throughout the
first day.
Mr.Nordin began by explaining the format for the retreat,stating that it was the Council's retreat and they
could discuss items in any order they desired. Since there was not a formal facilitator, Mayor Cutillo
began with agenda item one.
11lrr AGENDA ITEM #1 - PRESENT AND FUTURE LAND DEVELOPMENT ISSUES
Mr. Nordin said that staff was looking for Council direction for future hillside development in the
community. Referring to the David Jensen proposal for Vista Del Lago, he said the project presented
issues which could impact future hillside development in other subdivisions. Mr. Nordin mentioned
various methods which could be used in establishing future building standards such as platting building
envelopes to preserve the area around homes as opposed to the current "four times the footprint rule"
which allows more to happen. He said if the voluntary standard was repealed,there would be no standard
at all.
Councilman Hudson said that he would like to approach the development topic from a standpoint of what
"we don't want" rather than what "we want". Vice Mayor Clark agreed adding that he was leery of
proposals such as Vista Del Lago that looked wonderful until you got to the last page where a good share
of the land had been scraped off. Mayor Cutillo pointed out that the last page of the proposal showed
what could be done to the proposed development under the current ordinance. Councilman O'Brien asked
for definition of what the town was empowered to prevent. Mayor Cutillo asked if the council was
looking at implementing a new hillside standard for just this development or throughout the entire
community. Mr. Nordin said that setting a new standard would apply in other areas besides Vista Del
Lago. He said that development guidelines could also be set using PUD's. Mayor Cutillo expressed the
desire to deal with each subdivision on an individual basis. Councilwoman Tibbetts said she felt the use
of PUD's should be more flexible because of the diverse nature and topography of the community.
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Mr. Jeppson reviewed the current zoning for the proposed Vista Del Lago. Councilman O'Brien asked
about other developments in the area such as Arriba Del Lago. Mr. Jeppson responded that Arriba Del
Lago had zero lot lines. He said that Vista Del Lago would have to follow the current R-3 RUP zoning
if rezoning did not occur. Current zoning allowed for a minimum lot size of 3,000 square feet,minimum
lot width of 32 feet, minimum front yard of 20 feet and minimum side yards of 0 and 5 feet The
proposed zoning, R1-6A PUD would allow for minimum lot sizes of 6,000 and.4,500 square feet,
minimum lot width of 32 feet, minimum front yard of 20 feet and minimum side yards of 0 and 5 feet.
Mayor Cutillo noted that there did not seem to be much improvement in the proposed zoning. Mr.
Jeppson said there would be less disturbance in road construction and that lots would not be pre-graded.
Councilman O'Brien said he would entertain the proposal but only on a PUD basis. Mayor Cutillo said
he liked the project but that the proposed zoning did not guarantee the Jensen proposal. Councilwoman
Wiggishoff said that she would like to see the "four times the footprint" go by the wayside. Councilman
O'Brien said that at the time that policy was adopted, it was a compromise. Mayor Cutillo added that it
had been aimed at in-fill lots.
Following a slide presentation by Mr. Jeppson of a hillside project in Pima County, Mayor Cutillo asked
what was in the Council's power to control. Mr. Farrell said that determining land use was a legislative
act and, that as a legislative body, the Council had the ability to determine land use. He said that the
courts were recognizing property rights to a greater degree than they had in the past. Not only were
ordinances being struck down, but landowners were suing and being awarded damages as well. He said
the Council always had the ability to say no but that adding reasons was likely to lead to litigation. Mr.
Farrell said that if a project conformed to the General Plan and the Zoning Ordinance, that a no vote
would be difficult to defend. He stated that Scottsdale and Oro Valley have been the only two
jurisdictions that tried to block hillside development - Scottsdale lost in court and Oro Valley amended
their ordinance.
Councilwoman Tibbetts commented that time was of the essence and asked how long it would take to deal
with what the Building Safety Department was presently dealing with. Mr. Farrell replied that it would
take 6 to 9 months to make the necessary amendments to the current documents guiding development.
He said a good General Plan should give a range of options while the Zoning Ordinance should deal with
specifics. Mayor Cutillo observed that there seemed to be some Council consensus that they liked the
Vista Del Lago project but wanted more assurance of adherence to the proposed project. Councilman
O'Brien suggested using slope as a trigger but questioned what to use as a starting point. He said it
wasn't reasonable to use a "because I don't like it" rationale - there has to be some justification for the
restriction. He posed the possibility of deleting any redundant zoning and once again posed the question
of"what can we do". Councilwoman Wiggishoff responded that the Council should answer the question
"what do we want to do".
Mr. Nordin reintroduced the idea of revisiting the 4 times the footprint issue and platting building
envelopes. Councilman O'Brien asked how building envelopes could be instilled and Mr. Nordin said
they could be designed in certain areas. Mr. Farrell said they could add requirements in certain areas and
make it palatable by trading something, possibly in land disturbance, lot vegetation and clearance. Vice
Mayor Clark suggested wrapping it up in a PUD. Mr. Nordin said PUD's couldn't address lot widths.
Mayor Cutillo expressed agreement with Councilwoman Tibbetts regarding a more flexible use of the
PUD. Mr. Farrell reminded the Council that some of these issues had been dealt with on the Felker
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project through the development agreement process. He said that instead of rewriting the General Plan
and Zoning Ordinance, the Council may want to consider using more development agreements.
Councilman O'Brien stated that annexation had been a bargaining incentive with the Felker project. Mr.
Farrell said the Council cannot"twist arms" but they can make suggestions. He added that property rights
were equal to first amendment rights and that profit was not a dirty word. Mr. Farrell said that a
development agreement would allow the Council more control. Mayor Cutillo expressed concern that
development agreements may be cumbersome and that some developers would see them as deterrents.
Councilman O'Brien said the agreements would prevent legislative changes. Mr.Nordin said the Council
could ask for desired outcomes through development agreements. Councilman Lawrence said that if it
was impossible to build on some of the mountains, that perhaps the Council may not have to be so quick
to trade off incentives. Councilwoman Tibbetts commented that the McDowellls could be purchased in
order to protect them for perpetuity. Councilwoman Wiggishoff said she favored designs where the
roads/streets were more sensitive to the topography but did not like them going to the tops of the hills.
Mayor Cutillo suggested that staff come back with a broader; more flexible PUD plan that would satisfy
the Council's desire or that the Council look at a development agreement for each new subdivision.
Mr. Jeppson posed a question to be asked in each case, "what is bringing the developer to the table".
Councilman Hudson asked how the Council could amend current legislation in order to force development
agreements and PUD's. He suggested that staff come back with some concepts of what was left to
develop in town. Referring to the Vista Del Lago project,Vice Mayor Clark asked how the Council could
make them do the project as it was proposed in the book. Mr. Harrel asked for direction from the Council
on narrow streets. Councilman Lawrence said he was opposed to narrow streets. Problems posed by
narrow streets were discussed. Mr. Harrel posed the question of ownership if a narrow street plan was
accepted. Councilwoman Tibbetts asked what Rural Metro's opinion was of the project. Mr. Nordin said
that they had concerns and that sprinklers wouldn't preclude problems. As the discussion on development
drew to a close, Mayor Cutillo commented that there had been a sizeable increase in the town's assessed
valuation and that many citizens had noticed a tax decrease.
AGENDA ITEMS #2 - ESTABLISHMENT OF A POLICE DEPARTMENT
Mr. Nordin introduced guests Captain Jerry Sheridan from the Maricopa County Sheriff Department and
Al Conan,the Town Marshal from Cave Creek. He then said that one of the questions facing the Council
was whether or not it was time to pound a stake in the ground and establish a time frame for establishing
a police department. He said they had won the negotiation battle with the County Board of Supervisors
and that the cost for basic law enforcement would be $577,000. Mr. Farrell added that the negotiations
had been particularly tough this year and that the Manager had done a fine job in securing the final
contract. Councilman Hudson asked if there was any indication that this contract would be a basis for
the future. Mr. Nordin said that the current language had a three year capability with a formula for future
rate calculations. Councilman O'Brien asked at what point it would be more expensive, using the
proposed formula, to contract for the service rather than having a police department. Mayor Cutillo said
the Council should determine what sort of protection they want, then decide how to pay for it. Captain
Sheridan said they had a good handle on everything going on in Fountain Hills with the current level of
coverage. He said that even with an officer on every corner, every crime could not be averted or solved.
He said that with very few exceptions there were always two officers present in town. The Captain
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reported that just that morning there were eleven officers involved in a drug arrest, adding that they had
a vast array of resources to draw upon.
Councilwoman Tibbetts asked if Fountain Hills was still a training ground for new officers. Captain
Sheridan responded that all of their contracts were important. He said there were fewer ins and outs of
personnel in the last two years because he had heard the complaints and was trying to deal with them.
He said there were always going to be some "bad deputies" but that he didn't want any of them in his
contract cities. He stated that Fountain Hills hasn't been and won't be a training ground.
Councilman O'Brien said that he had heard complaints about the response time and asked how long the
average response time was. Captain Sheridan said he had heard the complaints of the 2.5 hour response
time and the absence of cars in Fountain Hills. Referring to the 2.5 hour complaint, he said there were
3 cars in Fountain Hills at that time -one had been dispatched to Rio Verde,one was dealing with a DUI
and one was responding to a silent alarm - all at one time. The claimant complaining about the slow
response time had reported criminal damage which was not a high priority report. He said that there
would always be peaks and valleys in report activity and die'gaff periods would cause a longer wait: The
Captain said that lower priority calls caused some down time.
Councilman O'Brien asked which calls were considered to be lower priority calls. Captain Sheridan
answered that they were calls that posed no immediate danger, no criminal activity in progress, and calls
requiring only a written report. Councilman Lawrence asked how many officers covered Fountain Hills
and the Captain replied about 8. Councilman Lawrence asked if all the calls were reported to the Times
or just selected calls. Captain Sheridan said the only calls not reported to the Times were those withheld
at the request of the victims. He said that Fountain Hills, Carefree and Cave Creek had the lowest crime
rates in the valley because they were outside the area where criminals live. Councilman Lawrence said
he heard of incidents which had not appeared in the paper. Captain Sheridan said that his sergeant was
the one responsible for submitting the list of reports to the paper and that it was possible that he
occasionally missed a deadline - he said they didn't need to cover up anything.
Marshal Gendler said that you couldn't go by the incidents reported in the paper. Using the statistics from
the MCSO reports, he reported that property crimes and 1 and 2 class misdemeanors had increased by
46%. He said that the new contract would have 1.5 beats but that the town should field 23 officers to deal
with the increased population. Councilman O'Brien said that it sounded like the Council should discuss
how much service the town should have rather than who should supply the service. Captain Sheridan said
that he thought the town had adequate service now. Councilman Hudson asked how Fountain Hills would
handle the recent case that had fielded 11 officers. Mr. Nordin said he would use over time and outside
help. Councilman Hudson asked if a town police department would be a part of the county and state wide
task force. Marshal Gendler quoted the statutes pertaining to how a Fountain Hills police force would use
outside agencies. Mayor Cutillo observed that using outside agencies would require time to assemble and
that there would be a time lag. Councilman Lawrence commented that incident requiring 11 officers was
not a spur of the moment thing and that the assemblage of that personnel had been planned in advance.
Mayor Cutillo asked to hear from the Town Marshal since the Council had heard from Captain Sheridan.
Marshal Gendler said they had an excellent relationship with the Sheriff's Department and that the current
law enforcement was a model for the state. He said the present coverage currently met the national
standard and that the cost was a bargain at this particular time. He said he was looking ahead 18 months
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at the future population of Fountain Hills and that the town would have to increase the level of coverage
to keep the same level of service. He said that 3 beats (23 officers) would be required and that the cost
would be at a break even point. At that point, it would cost more to maintain both the MCSO contract
and the Marshal's Department. If only the contract was maintained in order to control the cost, local
ordinances would not be enforced since the Sheriff's Office would not provide that service. He said he
had concern for the future level of service.
Vice Mayor Clark asked how the future would change the need and Councilman O'Brien asked if it would
be impossible in the future to increase both the Sheriff's contract and the Marshal's Department. Marshal
Gendler responded that within the next 3 years, the cost to support the current arrangement(both the S.O.
contract and the Marshal Department), enhanced to meet the population need would be 1.6 million. The
cost to support a police department providing the same level of service would be 1.2 million. Vice Mayor
Clark asked if we would continue to get more-than we're paying for from the S.O. in the future. Mr.
Nordin replied affirmatively as long as Joe Arpaio was in office and Jerry Sheridan was captain.
Councilman O'Brien asked what the minimal start up time would be for a police department. Marshal
Gendler said that in an emergency, it could be done in 6 months. He said the ideal time line was 18
months.
Vice Mayor Clark asked if we were currently getting 3 beats with the combined efforts of the S.O. and
the Marshal's Department. Marshal Gendler said that was theoretically correct but that they were 2
separate services and that donated time was making up the difference between the 1.5 beats on paper and
the 3 beat coverage in the field. Vice Mayor Clark asked how much longer volunteers could make up the
difference and when it would be appropriate to consolidate the services. Mayor Cutillo said there were
currently 4 full time marshals but they all worked during the day time. Marshal Gendler explained the
difference in determining standards of service-he said the national standard is based on population while
the Sheriff's Office standard is based on area covered.
Captain Sheridan said he had asked his deputies how busy they were and was told that they have enough
time to do all they need/want to do. His deputies said they were not over worked. Mayor Cutillo
suggested adding a deputy to the S.O. staff and let them perform code enforcement. Councilwoman
Tibbetts questioned what kind of coverage the town would have with that scenario and added that the S.O.
would have to constantly be updated on new ordinances. Marshal Gendler said deputies would have to
stay here permanently to keep on top of the local ordinances. Captain Sheridan said that it took 5.2
people to fill a beat and that didn't include supervisors. Marshal Gendler said it would take a 1.5 beat
increase in the Sheriff's contract in order to enforce local ordinances. Councilman Lawrence said these
were issues that had not been addressed thus far. Marshal Gendler said that if the Council waited until
a crisis, they would not be able to respond.
Mayor Cutillo said that things were not wonderful between the 2 entities and that there would always be
friction. He said there should be only 1 group and that the Sheriff could provide the service most
economically at this time. He said he felt there should be 3 beats at this time, that the Marshal
Department should be downsized and the beats added to the Sheriff's contract. He also felt the liability
issue should be addressed. Councilwoman Tibbetts said that she felt the ordinance enforcement was one
of the community's strengths. Councilwoman Wiggishoff suggested approaching this as a matter of policy
- "do we want strong enforcement or no". Councilman O'Brien asked how quickly a beat could be added
to the S.O. contract. Councilman Lawrence said the town had been making an investment in the Marshal
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Department in order to form a police department at some time in the future. He felt it would be hasty
to change that direction at this time and questioned the deviation from incorporation's goal of local control
and the movement to localize government. He said that staying with the county went against that whole
theory and that if contracting was so wonderful, why didn't more jurisdictions do it.
Councilman O'Brien summarized that -there appeared to be 3 choices:-staying with the current
arrangement, shifting more control to MCSO or shifting control to the Marshal's Department.
Councilwoman Wiggishoff
opposed reduo the.Marshals.Department services;saying tat most problems involved
relationships,disorder and incivility. She didn't feel that the quality of life issues,protected by local code
enforcement, should be minimized. Mayor Cutillo said he didn't endorse less local ordinance enforcement
but that he thought it could be done more efficiently. Councilman O'Brien said there would be a point
in time to start the clock ticking on the 18 month lead time for a police department but he did not feel
now was the time. He said he did not support giving all the control to either the S.O. or the Marshal
Department because at this time, he felt we had the best of both worlds. Mr. Farrell agreed and spoke
strongly in favor of the current arrangement.
Mayor Cutillo said that the volunteers currently doing code enforcement would leave if the town was not
going to start forming their own department. Mr. Farrell said that was a casualty of having a Marshal's
Department but that the rewards were worth the price. Vice Mayor Clark said that the town was only in
a favorable position at this position now because of the services of 20 volunteers providing the equivalent
of 1 beat at no cost. Councilman Lawrence favored milking the system as long as it was feasible. Mayor
Cutillo said he didn't favor increasing the Marshal's Department unless a stake was driven in the ground
marking a police department start date. Marshal Gendler said he believed a police department was
inevitable so his department should continue to gear up for the future. Captain Sheridan said he did not
agree that a police department was inevitable and that he was trying to change Marshal Gendler's way of
thinking thru performance. Marshal Gendler, referring to local control, said the county sets its own
priorities and they may not agree with the priorities of the Council. Their economic issues may take
precedence and programs desired by the Town may be deleted,just as the D.A.R.E. program had been.
Captain Sheridan stated that the D.A.R.E. program had been reinstated but did not respond to the
Marshal's inquiry as to who was assigned to the program. Councilman O'Brien suggested prorating the
beat increase to the population in the five year CIP and said that although there was no immediate plan
for a police department in the next 18 months, it should be reviewed and re-evaluated every year.
AGENDA ITEM #3 - COMMUNITY SWIMMING POOL/AQUATIC CENTER
Councilman O'Brien asked what funding options were available other than GO bonds. Mr. Nordin
mentioned sales tax secured bonds or a municipal property corporation-he said revenue bonds could not
be used. Mayor Cutillo said he had no problem bringing the question to the voters. Councilwoman
Wiggishoff said this project was down on her list of priorities for the town and felt that dollars should go
to investment spending first, such as
to a project like a Civic Center whichwould create an economic cluster Vice Mayor Clark pointed out
that previous town halls had never identified this as a priority. Councilman O'Brien said the Council
should establish a maximum amount that they were comfortable subsidizing. Mr.Nordin agreed to a more
aggressive revenue scheme, saying that operating costs ,
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Oul read):up t0 $90,000. Mayor Cutillo questioned how much the facility
would be used by the school as opposed to the public. Mr. Nordin said the town should be in charge of
scheduling the facility. Councilwoman Tibbetts suggested that the citizen group endorsing this project
should conduct a citizen survey. Councilman Hudson said the pool project should be weighed against
other projects such as the civic center. Mr. Nordin said that the McDowell Mountain Task.Force wanted
to do a survey and that maybe other projects could be included on that survey. Mayor Cutillo said he
favored doing a community wide survey for all proposed projects. Councilman Lawrence said he agreed
with letting the people decide, adding that he favored a community pool.
AGENDA ITEM #4 - FOUNTAIN HILLS WASH ISSUES
Councilwoman Tibbetts suggested the formation of a task force to establish use preferences and to finish
this project once and for all. Mr. Harrel reported that the wash assessment and mapping had been
completed and that staff was waiting for the written report. Councilwoman Tibbetts suggested tying this
project into the Parks and Recreation Master Plan. Mr. Harrel and Mr. Jeppson pointed out that there
were wash issues that affected future subdivision development. Mr. Harrel said that staff had been
proceeding without an overall plan, getting assurances from developers for future trail development. Mr.
Nordin said it was not really necessary to adopt a parks master plan since there was no money budgeted
for wash development. He said the town could be ready to take the wash ownership by November 1.
Councilwoman Wiggishoff asked the status of the habitat study. Councilwoman Tibbetts replied that
Loras Rauch said it would be completed sometime in the Spring. Mr. Jeppson said that MCO was
refusing permission to go on their property without one of their staffers present.
Councilman O'Brien asked what the charge would be of the task force. Councilwoman Tibbetts answered
that they would compile information about the washes,put them into categories and then develop a criteria
by which a policy would be judged. Once they had developed a policy for the washes, they would
propose actions to the Council for implementation. She listed some of the groups that the wash group had
proposed for representation on the task force including: the Planning and Zoning Commission, the Parks
and Recreation Commission, Citizens for Sensible Development,McDowell Park Association,Committee
to Preserve the Environment, Neighborhood Property Owners Association, the Pastoral Association, the
Sanitary District and 8 citizens at large. She felt the Council should take advantage of all the work the
wash group had done thus far.
Councilwoman Wiggishoff said she felt it was important that the group felt ownership in the process.
Councilman O'Brien asked if the Parks and Recreation should do the study. Councilwoman Tibbetts said
that was not her intent because the Commission had been the bane of the wash groups existence.
Councilman O'Brien asked if the Parks and Recreation Commission should be circumvented.
Councilwoman Wiggishoff agreed that theprocess wouldgo ggi gree quiekef more smoothly without Parks and
Recreation involvement and added that the Council should be an impartial arbitrator. Mayor Cutillo said
he felt the Council needed to decide whether or not they favored a trail system in the washes and then
charge the task force with a plan. Councilwoman Wiggishoff said she felt the Council should let the task
force decide what to do with the '
washes and that the Council s ould frame the question and set the non;neab1e aspects,e g• budget;
safety stalldards,;ete'
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Councilman O'Brien said it was his recollection that the plan was to take the inventory of the washes and
then provide a mechanism for neighborhood input. Councilman Lawrence suggested forming a nominating
committee to appoint the task force-the committee should report to the Parks and Recreation Commission
first and then to the Council. Vice Mayor Clark said he was disappointed in the lack of action on the part
of the Parks and Recreation Commission but that perhaps the Council had not given them a clear enough
direction. Councilwoman Wiggishoff spoke in favor of citizen involvement in solving the community's
problems. Mr. Nordin suggested that the task force could first give their recommendations to the Parks
and Recreation Commission and then the Council would receive the task force recommendation with
Commission comment. He suggested that Councilman O'Brien, Councilwoman Tibbetts and he work out
a format.
AGENDA ITEM #8 - SALES TAX UPDATE
Mr. Nordin referred to the handout he had given the Council regarding the sales tax revenues. He said
that due to the revenues collected thus far, the revised projected fiscal year total exceeded the amount
budgeted last May. Mr. Nordin said that he was looking into having an audit done in order to identify
businesses that were not paying the proper sales tax.
AGENDA ITEM#5- 1995-96 PROGRAM OF WORK AND 5 YEAR CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT
PROGRAM
Mr. Nordin said he was looking for Council direction on his program of work which would be tied into
the 5 year CIP. He said the Council had already agreed to the first year OP in the last budget cycle. He
tkiw said that street maintenance was proceeding per the plan presented in the budget, that he would be
establishing a reserve fund for the Civic Center, and asked if the Council agreed to this process.
Councilman O'Brien said he would like more specifics such as the replacement costs for police cars being
a part of the 5 year budgets. Since there were no immediate plans to establish a police department,Mayor
Cutillo suggested taking the sales tax money earmarked for the Marshal's Department and putting into
parks or the Civic Center. Councilman O'Brien said the allocation should be left as is because maybe a
year from now the Council will say it's time for a police department. He asked if all the monies budgeted
for street improvements had ever been spent because it seemed that such funds had consistently been
underspent. He said that all funds allotted for streets should be used for streets.
Vice Mayor Clark said he felt strongly that one fund should not be raided to pay for another. He felt
there was a need to spend funds to promote the downtown. Councilman Hudson favored spending the
funds if they were not going to be used for the original purpose. Councilman Lawrence agreed suggested
that the sales tax money allocated for police department start up costs be spent on Golden Eagle Park
instead. Vice Mayor Clark said he thought the funds could be used to speed up the civic center. Mayor
Cutillo suggested using the survey to determine a priority for spending the extra funds. Councilman
Hudson asked if there was a consensus with MCO on trading for a site. Mr. Nordin said that realistic
goals were being established for the placement of the civic center. Councilman Hudson said he felt this
project should be pushed ahead. Councilman O'Brien asked if any money had been budgeted for Kiwanis
Park. Mayor Cutillo asked how much it would cost to finish Golden Eagle Park. Vice Mayor Clark said
he had little faith in the figures they had received thus far regarding the development costs of the park.
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Additional discussion ensued regarding the allocation of the $300,000 previously budgeted for the start
up costs of a police department. Street maintenance was then brought up with Mr. Harrel reporting that
Fountain Hills Boulevard renovations had started three weeks ago. Councilman Lawrence asked if it
would be feasible delaying Fountain Hills Boulevard until Palisades was done, diminishing the
inconvenience. Mr. Harrel said it was not a good idea because of the properties of asphalt. Mr. Harrel
relayed the problem with getting the traffic signals in at Palisades and Shea in time for the opening of
Palisades. The Council said they were not comfortable opening Palisades without a street light.
While waiting for Mike Chin to arrive, Councilman O'Brien asked what else the Council could do
regarding the downtown area besides the civic center. Mr. Nordin suggested a development agreement.
He said that Mr. Jenkins had gone away with the idea that the Council opposed apartments after they
denied the request on Palisades. He said the development agreement idea could incorporate the entire
downtown plan including a time table for taking over the fountain.
AGENDA ITEM #7 - MCDOWELL MOUNTAIN PRESERVATION TASK FORCE - UPDATE
AND DIRECTION
Mike Chin, Vice Chairman of the Task Force,reported that they had been working on a number of topics
and applying those to 1,200 - 1,300 acres in Fountain Hills which represents 10 to 12 percent of all
preserve land identified by Scottsdale. These included the following:
1.) Identifying issues/values to be considered in the preservation area:
Scenic
Historic
Sensitivity
Access - trail head
Recreational sites
Wildlife border
2.) Considering funding options - zoning ordinance, density transfers, outright purchase
using/not using taxes. He said that although the Task Force had gone back and forth,
there was consensus to form a commission much like Scottsdale did that would further
refine what the task force had done and work more on funding options.
3.) Working on public opinion poll - had identified 3 pollsters and chosen Jennie Gorrell.
The subcommittee had met with her to formulate the survey which was to be ready to
present to the task force on October for comment and revision. They planned to target
a wide cross section of the community, not just property owners. The cost was expected
to be $3,500 to $4,500.
4.) Further defining of land use - the task force had divided the proposed preservation area
into 7 sections and 7 members had been assigned to each section for additional study.
5.) Establishing time tables and priorities -using recreational facilities outlined by Parks and
Recreation and MCO development plans, exploring the future possibilities for the area.
Examining legal,financial,public relations,real estate,land planning and establishing the
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commission to interface with the county, Parks and Recreation and the Scottsdale
Commission. Desire to create a contiguous presence on the east side which would blend
with the Scottsdale plan.
6.) Creating a management strategy for the preserve - whether or not to include the local
Parks and Recreation Commission still undecided. Exploring coordinating personnel from
Scottsdale and Fountain Hills to form a management team.
7.) Planning final report towards the end of the year.
Councilwoman Tibbetts asked if they had looked at preservation from the standpoint of the views that the
town residents observe and would like protected. She also asked what part, if any,Rio Verde would play
in this project. Mr. Chin said the task force had gone to different areas in town to assess the views of the
McDowells - they had discovered that the area surrounding the Post Office had magnificent views of the
McDowell Mountains. Councilman Hudson asked if they had determined a final cost for the acquisition
of the preservation area. Mr. Chin said they may have some estimates but that the commission, once
formed, would deal more with the financial end of it. He said that what the town does will be contingent
on what Scottsdale can negotiate on their side. He said that MCO had been very cooperative with the task
force's efforts. Mr. Chin stated that their focus was to bring together a geographic boundary that makes
sense to the town. The poll, which would be a telephone poll, should be designed to bring out the level
of commitment from the community.
Mayor Cutillo asked if the task force would be willing to combine their poll with other issues. Mr. Chin
said the task force was not in favor of combining their poll with other issues because they felt the issue
would become too complex. Councilman O'Brien said that the Council would like to have all of the
issues facing the community listed on the survey. Mr. Chin said the task force was not adamant on the
issue and that he would broach the suggestion at their October 4th meeting.
Councilman Lawrence commended the job the task force was doing and Councilwoman Tibbetts asked
if the size of the group was workable. Mr. Chin said the size seemed just about right-it had started with
11 and was now at 10 and he said he wouldn't recommend a group any larger than that.
Mayor Cutillo explained that there were 3 issues facing the Council which represented various "wants"
in the community - a community pool, a civic center and land preservation. Mr. Chin said he could see
the rationale of tying the issues together rather than fragmenting the issues to the public. He asked if there
would be committees for the other 2 projects that could work with their committee on the survey.
Councilman O'Brien suggested that staff meet with Ms. Gorrell to formulate questions for the other issues.
Councilwoman Tibbetts said the poll should be publicized so that residents would not be leery and be
more likely to participate.
COUNCIL RETREAT DAY TWO - SEPTEMBER 27, 1995: 9:00 A.M. TO 11:30 A.M.
Prior to discussion commencing for the day, Mr. Nordin readdressed building envelopes and how they
could be made more palatable to the developers. Mr. Farrell explained that plat maps, once recorded,
started a whole process going - he said the process for making minor corrections could be simplified. A
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problem with platting envelopes was that a lot may have a second or third buyer who does not like the
location of the envelope. Councilwoman Tibbetts commented that MCO had concerns for constrictions
on the buyers and that it was very time consuming to walk every lot to determine the best placement of
the envelope on the lot.
AGENDA ITEM #6 - DOWNTOWN DEVELOPMENT - PLAT 208 AND TOWN PROPERTY
Mr. Nordin said realistic goals needed to be set for development of the downtown while keeping in mind
what the town could control. He said Mr. Farrell could define the options.
Councilwoman Tibbetts said the development of the whole area needed a catalyst and the location of civic
center had to be determined. Mayor Cutillo said there was a recent push to get it going and that he felt
an acre for acre trade should be negotiated with MCO. Councilwoman Wiggishoff felt activity/use should
be identified - "what would people do there". Mayor Cutillo suggested entertainment, amphitheater
activities. Councilwoman Wiggishoff suggested that an economic cluster be created around a performing
arts center which could attract users from outside the community. Councilman Lawrence said he felt the
purpose of the facility was to first meet the needs and wants of the community. Mayor Cutillo said the
location would be very important and should incorporate surrounding land use. Concern was expressed
that the town would not want to construct an expensive building that turned out to be a "white elephant".
Councilman Hudson said the town would not have a white elephant if the facility was built to suit the
current needs of the community. He said it would be unwise to try and do the whole project at once and
it could be designed and constructed in stages. He questioned whether trading acre for acre was a good
or bad idea.
Mr. Nordin brought up the idea suggested by Dana Saar which realigned Saguaro Boulevard and asked
if the Council would like to discuss the possibilities at a work study session. Mayor Cutillo said he
doubted that Dana's suggestion would be feasible without the developer's participation. Councilman
Lawrence said he would be interested in seeing the plan if it was drawn out somewhere. Councilwoman
Tibbetts expressed concern with moving Saguaro because of drainage issues. Councilman O'Brien raised
concerns for displacing existing businesses and that placing the civic center close to the fountain was too
far away from the other downtown activity. Mayor Cutillo pointed out that the closer the civic center
property was to the downtown area, the more expensive the land would be. Councilman Hudson said he
was not in favor of moving the civic center property down to Saguaro. Mr. Farrell said the downtown
development plan in Scottsdale saved the downtown area. He said the original 15 acres was still a good
location and commented that it might be better to leave the central corridor for tax producing activities.
Councilman O'Brien said he didn't feel the current site would serve as a catalyst for additional
development. Councilwoman Tibbetts said she was against building the civic center structure in the park.
Ms. Hansen suggested the area just east of La Montana, straddling the Avenue of the Fountains, and
encompassing block 2 on the south and the old Abatemarco property on the north. Mayor Cutillo
suggested meeting with the consultant, having some new conceptual plans created and discussing the
possibilities in a work study session. Councilwoman Wiggishoff and Vice Mayor Clark expressed the
desire to put the sales tax money designated for a police department towards the civic center project.
Councilman Lawrence said he felt that money should go towards Golden Eagle Park. Councilwoman
Wiggishoff said there was already a plan to complete the park. Councilman O'Brien suggested that now
might be the appropriate time to do a more extensive search for an architect that would work on the
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project through completion. Mayor Cutillo said he felt spending the time now to search for the "final"
architect would slow down the process.
Vice Mayor Clark said he felt the post office should be incorporated into the plan. Mr. Nordin,
commenting on the delay in finalizing the civic center location, stated that it was not a top priority with
MCO at this time. Mayor Cutillo disagreed saying that he thought MCO was frustrated with the town's
indecision. Councilman Hudson said the Council needed to decide where the project should be located.
Councilman O'Brien suggested getting a couple of conceptual plans,one using the intersection suggestion
and the other using block 2, with the understanding that the Council did not want to take any land with
structures. Mr. Nordin said staff would contact the architect who had previously worked on the project
and meet with MCO to come up with a couple conceptual plans for possible civic center locations. He
said an attempt would be made to create visual symmetry at the west end of the Avenue of the Fountains
where it meets La Montana.
Councilwoman Tibbetts said that Walt Franklin was setting up a committee through the Civic Association
to work on a new community center but that they agreed that the Council would have to decide on the
location. Councilman Hudson said the Council should decide and added that an appraisal should be done
on the existing 15 acres as well as the future location.
AGENDA ITEMS #9 - MCO PROPERTIES EXIT STRATEGY
Acquisition of Chaparral City Water Company
Mayor Cutillo said the most recent figures he had heard associated with the water company were 25 to
30 million dollars. Mr. Farrell pointed out that the town could only borrow 14 to 18 million based on an
appraisal of 22 million dollars which would necessitate a rate increase. Mayor Cutillo said he had a
problem with raising the rates in order to purchase the company. Councilman Lawrence said that from
a citizen's point of view, he would prefer to have low rates than have the town own the water company.
Vice Mayor Clark commented that if the company was a poor deal, why MCO didn't get rid of it. Mr.
Farrell pointed out that possession of the water company allows the town to have some control over
development. Mayor Cutillo said he had only been interested in acquiring the water company if the rates
could in turn be lowered. Councilwoman Tibbetts said that water companies have traditionally been"cash
cows" and that Chaparral has always been one of the top companies to comply and stay within the rules
and regulations governing such utilities. Mr. Farrell said that pressures will continue on private water
companies thru regulation and taxation. He said that by the year 1997, hydrology studies would be
required to prove 100 year assured water supply. Mr. Nordin said that the town couldn't be an active
intervener during the last rate increase cycle but asked if the Council would want to take this role now.
He added that there would be pressure to do so. Mr. Farrell commented that intervention was almost
always effective but that alot would be spent for a little.
Acquisition of the Sanitary District
Mr. Nordin said there had been discussion of dissolution at the turn of the century. Councilman Hudson
reported that the Risk Pool was ready to take on the Sanitary District as a member. Mr.Farrell reminded
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Page 12 of 14
the Council that there would have to be mutual agreement to make the dissolution possible. Mayor Cutillo
suggested there might be a stronger impetus to reach a mutual agreement if the Council went public and
expressed the desire to obtain the district. Councilwoman Wiggishoff asked how the town would do
things differently if the district was under their control and questioned where the real benefit would be
at this time. Mr. Farrell said the town would have more liability if they had the Sanitary District. He said
a growth policy was harder to administer without control of sewers and water. Mr. Nordin commented
that the Sanitary District was faced with some huge decisions and that it was better to let their board make
them than the Council.
Acquisition of Fountain Park and Medians
Mayor Cutillo commented that these items would probably come into play when negotiations began for
the 15 acres. Vice Mayor Clark suggested taking in stages, the land first and then the fountain.
Councilman O'Brien raised the issue of deeds and restrictions on the properties. Mayor Cutillo said that
he felt that the acquisition of the properties and the subsequent maintenance costs should be used as a
bargaining tool. Vice Mayor Clark expressed concern that MCO might sell the park and fountain to a
private investor. Councilman Lawrence said that he had heard that MCO might sell to a resort that would
take the park. Mayor Cutillo questioned the marketability of the park with no guarantee that the fountain
would go up. Mr. Nordin said he was getting the message from the Council that they were not in favor
of acquiring fountain park at this time. Councilwoman Tibbetts said she felt the negotiations for future
acquisition should take place now before there was a major change in control at MCO. Mr. Nordin said
all the pieces could be tied up into a development agreement for the downtown area.
Additional discussion took place regarding issues for a community survey.
The Council adjourned the retreat at approximately 11:30 a.m.
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TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
By: J)71d
Cutillo, Mayor
ATTEST: 6
Cassie B. Hansen, Town Clerk
PREPARED BY: e1VUL idIAAA_L--)
Cassie B. Hansen, Town Clerk
CER 1TF'ICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Council
Retreat held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills on the 26th and 27th days of September, 1995. I
further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
DATED this 2nd day of November, 1995.
C SaJ
Cassie B. Hansen, Town Clerk
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