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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004.1118.TCRM.Minutes TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS MINUTES OF THE REGULAR SESSION OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL NOVEMBER 18,2004 Mayor Nichols called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. Following the invocation by Councilman Schlum, roll call was taken. ROLL CALL — Present for roll call were the following members of the Fountain Hills Town Council: Vice Mayor Archambault, Mayor Nichols, Councilwoman Schlum, Councilman Kavanagh, Councilman Kehe, Councilwoman Nicola, Councilman McMahan. Town Attorney Andrew McGuire, Town Manager Tim Pickering, Director of Public Works Tom Ward, Director of Parks and Recreation Mark Mayer and Town Clerk Bev Bender were also present. CALL TO THE PUBLIC Town Clerk Bev Bender advised that two citizens wished to address the Council and the Mayor asked them to come forward at this time and present their remarks. John McNeill, 14508 N. Creosote Mr. McNeill addressed the Council and said that the Town Clerk provided the members with a copy of handout he prepared. He once again thanked the Council for the good, common sense decision they made in October in rejecting Sunridge Canyon as a truck route and designating Golden Eagle as the route to be used for ingress and egress from Eagles Nest. He said that the main points addressed in the handout are that Golden Eagle is steep (64-feet wide and straight as an arrow) while Sunridge Canyon is described by staff as having 56-feet of pavement, but if the actual amount of available pavement for cars to use is measured, it is 11.5-feet in width only, He referred them to the next to the last page of the handout that contained an excerpt from the Town's.Subdivision Ordinance showing the lowest class of a collector road, a limited collector road, and noted that Sunridge Canyon as actually built and measured, did not even meet the Town's requirements for pavement width, sidewalks, and width of the entire right-of-way clearance from the walls in the adjacent subdivision for a limited collector, a road intended to only handle 900 cars a day,not heavy truck traffic as proposed. Mr. McNeill stated that he chose to participate in all three public meetings and at the two Council sessions and said he saw a lot of people come forward at the last meeting and had read a number of letters to the editor in the paper. He commented that he did not recognize any of those people as having participated in the public input opportunities that were made available to them. Margaret Jennings, 15445 N. Sunridge Ms. Jennings informed the Council that she lives on Sunridge and travels the road a number of times during the week. She said that although a hired professional might not be aware of it, she would like them to know that when people drive up Shea and turn onto Palisades, it seems as though there is a significant amount of traffic already and no room exists for dump trucks. She added that when someone makes a left-hand turn off of Palisades onto Sunridge, there are no stop signals or stop signs that govern the traffic. She stated the opinion that dump trucks could not successfully and continuously make it through there without causing problems. She said the situation is hazardous for a fast car to get through and would be even more so for dump trucks. She noted that drivers then immediately begin driving down a steep hill and encounter traffic going in and out of the restaurant and entering/leaving the golf course area. She stated the opinion that dump trucks might have a little trouble maneuvering that steep hill and encountering some of the slower drivers. • E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 1 of 19 Ms. Jennings commented that continuing down to the stop sign, which is close to her home on Sierra Madre, there are a number of youths who ride their skateboards out on the street. She expressed concerns regarding the safety of the children who are busy playing and not watching out for dump trucks. She further stated that her side of the street contains six houses, five of which have to back out into the street. She said she does not believe that to be a very comfortable situation and does not want to have to worry about being rear ended by a dump truck. She requested that the Council proceed with the original decision that she believes is the right decision. Ms. Bender advised that another speaker submitted a request to speak. Jim Campbell, 13430 Sunridge Drive Mr. Campbell stated his position that the Council made the correct decision back in October. He stated that he bought the first of two building lots on Sunridge Drive in 1997 and said his decision took into consideration the narrowness of the traffic lanes and bike paths, the shortness of radii of the curbs creating line-of-sight limitations and the fact that Sunridge Drive would eventually connect onto Golden Eagle Boulevard. He noted that all of the members have had ample opportunity to study both Sunridge Drive and Golden Eagle Boulevard and, given the restraints that he mentioned, he asked each of them whether a reasonable prospective real estate buyer along Sunridge Drive should be expected to envision or anticipate that some day Sunridge Drive would be used as a route for large heavy trucks hauling materials to a 500-acre subdivision beyond the current terminus of Golden Eagle Boulevard. He asked whether there would be any duty to inquire and added that likewise, the owners of real estate on Golden Eagle Boulevard had to have observed that the boulevard has wide traffic lanes, unobstructed center turn lanes and bike paths wide enough to park a vehicle in. He added that they should also have observed that Golden Eagle Boulevard dead-ended without even a curved turnaround area. Mr. Campbell reiterated his question as to how a reasonable prospective real estate buyer along Golden . Eagle Boulevard could avoid coming to the conclusion that someday Golden Eagle Boulevard was going to continue on and possibly carry significant construction traffic. He commented that the problem before them was unforeseeable by the residents along Sunridge Drive and should have been seen as an eventuality by those along Golden Eagle Boulevard. Mayor Nichols thanked all of the speakers for their comments. CONSENT AGENDA AGENDA ITEM #1 — CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THE COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 4,2004. AGENDA ITEM #2 — CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION 2004-56, ABANDONING WHATEVER RIGHT, TITLE OR INTEREST THE TOWN HAS IN CERTAIN PUBLIC UTILITY AN DRAINAGE EASEMENTS LOCATED AT THE NORTHWESTERLY PROPERTY LINES OF LOT 7, BLOCK 2, PLAT 401B, (10437 B. NICKLAUS DRIVE) AS RECORDED IN BOOK 155 OF MAPS, PAGE 12, RECORDS OF MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA. EA04-24(DUELL). AGENDA ITEM #3 — CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION 2004-57, ABANDONING WHATEVER RIGHT, TITLE OR INTEREST THE TOWN HAS IN CERTAIN PUBLIC UTILITY AND DRAINAGE EASEMENTS LOCATED AT THE EASTERLY PROPERTY LINES OF LOT 7, BLOCK 3, PLAT 401B (10259 N. NICKLAUS DRIVE) AS RECORDED IN BOOK 155 OF MAPS, PAGE 12, RECORDS OF MARICOPA COUNTY, ARIZONA. EA04-23 (DUELL). E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session II-18-04.doc Page 2 of 19 AGENDA ITEM #4 — CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION 2004-60, ABANDONING WHATEVER RIGHT, TITLE OR INTEREST THE TOWN HAS IN A PORTION OF THE 1' VEHICULAR NON-ACCESS EASEMENT LOCATED AT THE WESTERLY PROPERTY LINE OF LOT 2 OF FOUNTAIN VIEW VILLAGE REPLAT. NVAE 04-02. AGENDA ITEM #5 — CONSIDERATION OF APPOINTING KIRA PUTTERMAN AS THE PARKS AND RECREATION YOUTH COMMISSIONER TO SERVE A ONE-YEAR TERM. AGENDA ITEM #6 — CONSIDERATION OF THE PRELIMINARY AND FINAL PLAT FOR "PLAZA WATERFRONT CONDOMINIUMS," A MIXED USE CONDOMINIUM PROJECT LOCATED AT PLAZA FOUNTAINSIDE, 12625 N. SAGUARO BLVD., AKA LOT 2, FINAL PLAT. CASE#S2004-23. AGENDA ITEM #7 — CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION 2004-63, IMPLEMENTING MEASURES TO REDUCE REENTRAINED DUST EMISSIONS FROM TARGETED PAVED ROADS IN THE REVISED PM-10 STATE IMPLEMENTATION PLAN FOR THE SALT RIVER AREA. AGENDA ITEM #8 — CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING A CONTRACT WITH CK ENGINEERING FOR THE TRAFFIC SIGNAL DESIGN AT THE INTERSECTION OF SAGUARO BOULEVARD AND EL LAGO BOULEVARD. Vice Mayor Archambault MOVED to approve the Consent Agenda as read and Councilman Schlum SECONDED the motion. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: Councilwoman Nicola Aye Mayor Nichols Aye Councilman Kavanagh Aye Councilman Schlum Aye Councilman Kehe Aye Councilman McMahan Aye Vice Mayor Archambault Aye The motion CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY (7 to 0). AGENDA ITEM #9 — CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THE CONCEPT OF ACCEPTING FLAT ART FOR PLACEMENT IN THE COMMUNITY CENTER. Parks & Recreation Director Mark Mayer provided an overview of this agenda item and said the Council had before them a request that came through the Public Arts Committee of the Fountain Hills Cultural Council. He clarified that although this was in the same spirit as their public art policy, it was separate from that particular policy, and that was why it was before the Council this evening. He explained that the group was interested in providing five pieces of art that would be placed on permanent display in the Community Center. He noted that they would be purchased and donated to the community and each piece of art would come forward for the Council's review and potential acceptance. He added that the Town would then be responsible for insuring the individual pieces. He pointed out that specific details, potential locations for the art pieces and other information, which the members of the Community Center Advisory Commission who support the request reviewed, was contained in the Council's packets. Vice Mayor Archambault asked whether staff knew how much it would cost to insure the pieces and Mr. Mayer responded that that would be determined as each piece was brought forward because the cost would be valued on each of those pieces. The Vice Mayor asked whether they were potentially talking about$10,000 worth of art and Mr. Mayer said that was correct but he did not know what that cost would be at this time. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session II-18-04.doc Page 3 of 19 Ms. Bender advised that a card was received from Michelle Bender who indicated she would only like to speak if the Council had any questions. There being no questions, the Mayor said that he would entertain a motion. Councilman Kavanagh MOVED and Vice Mayor Archambault SECONDED a motion to approve the concept of accepting flat art for placement in the Community Center. The motion CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY(7 to 0). AGENDA ITEM #10 — DISCUSSION AND CONSIDERATION OF HIRING AN OUTSIDE CONSULTANT TO REVIEW THE ISSUE OF USING GOLDEN EAGLE BOULEVARD AS A TRUCK ROUTE. Mayor Nichols clarified that this evening the Council was going to discuss whether or not to hire an independent engineering firm to assess the safest route for trucks to get to and from the Eagles Nest Development. He emphasized that they were not there to reconsider the decision to use only Golden Eagle; this was not a discussion to reconsider the Council's past decision. He said the discussion would be limited to hiring an independent engineering firm to provide a second opinion, much as was done when considering a major medical procedure. He stated that he would appreciate it if comments from the public and the Council remained limited to whether they should hire an outside independent engineering firm to obtain a second opinion and not which route should be used. He requested that all comments be held to that item as listed on the agenda item and not which route should be used. Town Manager Tim Pickering provided an overview of this issue and noted that at the last Council meeting, staff was requested to place this item on the agenda. He said that staff had conducted research on this matter and talked with representatives of the Town's engineering firm that they typically used for traffic engineering studies. He stated that Burgess and Niple had provided a preliminary estimate of approximately $11,000 to complete a traffic study of this magnitude, which would study the construction route and make a recommendation as to which route should be used. He added that although this information was not included in the packet,they were talking about approximately$11,000. Councilwoman Nicola commented that she had some concerns and would like the Town Attorney to clarify some issues for her. She said that the Mayor stated that they were not going to talk about having the consultant provide a second opinion on the decision rendered by the Council but added that the Town Manager just said the consultant would provide a recommendation as to which route would be used and that the engineering firm would look at both routes. She commented that she was a little confused as to whether they themselves had all of the information about what they were going to discuss. She added that she also had a concern about how the agenda item was written and published because it stated that the Council was only going to talk about hiring a consultant to look at Golden Eagle, which was not what staff was saying and not what the public was expecting. Councilman Kavanagh noted that the last time they discussed this issue they directed staff to place an item on the agenda for the purpose of discussing hiring an outside consultant to review the whole truck route situation and which is the safest route. He added that this would basically involve reviewing the Golden Eagle Boulevard decision because that was the result of what the change was. He said it was basically asking the consultant what is the safest route for the trucks to take. Mayor Nichols concurred with Councilman Kavanagh's remarks and stated that the direction to the firm, if they decided to proceed in this manner, would be to determine the safest route for trucks to get to and from the Eagle's Nest development. Town Attorney Andrew McGuire, responding to the previous question from Councilwoman Nicola, stated the opinion that the crux of the issue was whether the agenda item was broad enough to discuss whether or not a consultant could be hired to conduct a complete analysis of truck routes accessing E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 4 of 19 Eagle's Nest or whether they should conduct an analysis of the truck route that was chosen, which was Golden Eagle Boulevard. Councilwoman Nicola commented that in addition, she would like to know whether the agenda item was properly noticed for the public to afford them the opportunity to come and discuss this with the Council or was it restricting discussion tonight just to Golden Eagle Boulevard. Mr. McGuire advised that the standards for determining whether an item was properly noticed was when another reasonable person read the notice and knew what it was about. He said they had already had two speakers talk about Sunridge Drive and he believed that reasonable people would know that this meeting was for a discussion of a decision that had already been made. He added, however, that if a traffic study was conducted analyzing the traffic on Golden Eagle Boulevard that would suffice to know whether that route was the appropriate route. He noted that without conducting a comparison,there was no way for the consultant to inform them whether a more appropriate route exists. He said they would only confirm that there were issues with Golden Eagle Boulevard that needed to be mitigated. Councilman Kehe read an e-mail sent by the Town Attorney to the Times (Bob Burns) dated October 14, 2004, and noted that he was taking some of it out of context. He said they would see as he proceeded that that was not an unfavorable approach. He stated, "I believe the Town has met the standard of care (reasonable care) for addressing existing concerns regarding the steep grades on Golden Eagle Boulevard by placing adequate warning signs along the street". He indicated his intention to asked Mr. McGuire to comment on this later on and went on to say that that had been established as a reasonable standard. He added that when they took what had been established as a reasonable standard and added review by a consultant of a decision the Council made on October 7th, it appeared to him that they were raising the bar, raising the standard, and the standard no longer became "reasonable care" it became "reasonable care plus a consultant." He expressed the opinion that this placed the Council in an untenable position and said if the Council for example voted nay on a proposal that was brought forward and seconded=and subsequent to that there was an accident on Golden Eagle, and no one could guarantee that there would not be accidents on any road in the Town, he asked whether that would be the first thing that an attorney for the plaintiff, in a suit against the Town, would latch onto, in effect saying, "why didn't you go the extra step?" He added that as they considered this issue this evening they had to recognize that the Mayor, at the last meeting, in directing staff, literally placed the Council in an untenable position. He asked how they were going to say no and questioned whether they wanted to raise the standard to the level where they said what we do has to be overseen by a consultant. Mr. McGuire responded that his comments to Mr. Burns were what he believed to be accurate as to the way the Town had handled, as he referred to it, a "known hazard" in their discussions. He pointed out that everyone knew Golden Eagle was steep and it had been signed as best as possible and believed they had met the standard of reasonable care to the best of their ability. He emphasized that he would never in a public conversation, particularly with a reporter, say anything else. He added that he would not say that the Town was negligent in any way because he did not believe that and it would be malpractice for him to do so. He commented that comments to a reporter taken out of context were not the best method of obtaining accurate information. He further stated that the bar could not be raised any more, it was set at what a reasonable municipality would do and because of all of the things that were raised at the last meeting, the first piece of evidence was the minutes of the meeting at which the Golden Eagle route was chosen. He noted that there were discussions in those minutes that showed very clearly that a debate took place and discussion took place as to the appropriate route and there were recommendations as well that would come up as evidence. He asked whether that could be another piece of evidence of reasonableness and responded yes, anything could, but noted that as soon as there was a lack of harmony on the decision, they created evidence and his discussion with Mr. Burns was an attempt to avoid creating more evidence. Councilman Kehe commented that it was very clear to him that when they took into account the consultant, they were raising the bar and added that the scenario he proposed could become a reality. He E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session I I-18-04.doc Page 5 of 19 said he personally felt that this issue, should it go to a motion, would place the Council in a position where they could do nothing other than vote yes. He stated that he did not believe this was really the process that they wanted to get involved in. He advised that at this time he was going to ask the Mayor to 144) take this item off of the agenda and explained that he was doing so because he thought that it had put them in the position where they did not have any choice on the matter and he did not believe this was right. He added that if the Mayor was not willing to abide by his request, he would object to the consideration of the motion and it would require a 2/3rds majority, 5 out of 7 votes, in order for his objection to the consideration of the motion to stand. He stated that first he would like the Mayor to remove that and noted that once it got on the record, once the motion became part of the record, the minutes, the deed had been done. He said he was not sure that the Mayor really intended for that to happen, it might have been an unwitting act that placed the Council in an untenable position. Mayor Nichols expressed the opinion that they got to this point, if they went back to the meeting at which they approved this item, they exposed themselves to the problem, the liability of a lawsuit against the Town at that meeting because they had advice from the engineering department and legal counsel that differed from how the Council voted. He said the Council voted one way and the advice from their professional staff and legal counsel said they should have gone a different way so it was already in the minutes, already there and exposed and he did not think this exposed them any more. He commented that they were already "pregnant" and this would not make them any more or less "pregnant" and added that he would not remove the item from the agenda. Mr. McGuire, responding to the second part of Councilman Kehe's previous question as to increased liability, stated the opinion that the only thing that would cause them to raise the bar was if they selected a consultant, asked them to conduct a study and then ignored their advice. He said he believed that was the only thing that would change their level of care. He said that if the Council was going to ask that a consultant be hired, that they follow the consultant's advice, whatever that was. Councilman Kehe commented that Mr. McGuire's remarks confirmed what he just said, that the Council's position was untenable,either they pass it or they were "cooked." Mr. McGuire clarified that his answer was if they decided to hire the firm, they should make sure they followed the direction of the consultant because that was one more piece of evidence. Councilman Kavanagh said that in the event of an accident, the first question would not be about the Council's decision to hire a consultant; it would be why the Council overturned the recommendation of their professional staff. He added that the second issue would then be, if they did in fact vote not to have a consultant review this, why they remained willfully blind, why did they purposely close their eyes and ears and avoid hearing additional evidence that might cause them to correct an error. He expressed the opinion that that was far more dangerous than considering a consultant. He stated that they could not stay willfully blind to a hazard and not hire a consultant or, even worse, try to use technical parliamentary maneuvering to prevent even the discussion of that would be seen, in his opinion, so malicious by a jury that the astronomical award given if there was an accident resulting from ignoring the advice of our technical staff would even go higher if they tried to put their heads in the sand and pretend that there was no problem. Vice Mayor Archambault stated the opinion that the issue was being blown way out of proportion and said he would like to attempt to bring it back into perspective. He noted that the Council voted for a temporary truck route for the development of Eagle's Nest, only for the developer's traffic, not for construction traffic that would happen afterwards, not for construction traffic that was always going to happen, in fact construction traffic pretty much ran at large and they were going to use Golden Eagle and Sunridge Canyon, whatever route they deemed to be the shortest. He further stated that they were talking about a temporary route and said most of the trucking had already probably.happened. -He commented on the fact that a one-month study was conducted by staff, which did not result in any real hard conclusive E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 6 of 19 evidence, and it was left up to the Council to make a decision. He stated that the Council did vote against staffs recommendation but expressed the opinion that they decided what a prudent person would think Lor was a reasonable route. He added that if they were there this evening discussing hiring a consultant to mitigate the challenges that they had on Golden Eagle, he would be all for it but said nothing they were talking about this evening addressed the hill that staff continued to say was there. He commented that it was not going to go away and they were not talking about permanent truck traffic or changing a speed limit, which was a permanent decision, and emphasized that if they were talking about a permanent decision, he would always support staffs recommendation. Councilman Kavanagh asked how long the trucks would be traveling up Golden Eagle and said if they were talking 30 days that would be one thing, but they were talking permanent. The Vice Mayor replied that they were not talking permanent, they were talking temporary traffic for the development of Eagle's Nest, and after that it was done. He said this would be after the roads and infrastructure were in. Councilman Kavanagh expressed the opinion that they were off the topic and should get back to the issue at hand. Councilwoman Nicola commented that it appeared the consultant's job had been expanded to look at the route and asked whether that would bring in other options that staff had looked at, such as Sierra Madre. She also questioned whether the consultant would address whether signage was appropriate along the route, and could they start from the point of entry into Town and determine which was the best route to get to where they were going, Saguaro, Palisades, east or west. She said she would like to know how far the consultant's scope would branch out. Mr. Pickering advised that they were basically sticking to the two routes and were not looking to expand on that. He said they would be looking at the speeds of the trucks on the different routes and which route, between Sunridge and Golden Eagle, was more appropriate. Vice Mayor Archambault asked whether this was going to be a permanent truck route and Mr. Pickering responded that it would be temporary and just for the construction traffic for Eagle's Nest property. He estimated that it would last approximately four to five years. Vice Mayor Archambault commented that the motion that was made originally was for the development traffic,not for the construction traffic when houses started to go up. Mr. Pickering said that this was what he was talking about as well. Mayor Nichols stated that his impression was that they were talking about all of the traffic that was going up to and down from Eagle's Nest for the next five years. Tom Ward responded to the Mayor's comment and said he would like to read a sentence from the scope of services from the consultant's report. Mayor Nichols commented that it appeared they had a different interpretation of the statute that they passed and asked whether this was what the Vice Mayor was talking about. Vice Mayor Archambault said yes, he made the motion and it was for the direction of development traffic, specifically geared towards MCO's development, not the construction traffic that would happen as contractors began to build houses. Councilman Kavanagh said he would like a point of clarification and asked whether the Vice Mayor was saying it was his belief, based on the way he made the motion, that right now any trucks that were not involved with the development traffic should still be using Sunridge. The Vice Mayor said that the E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session II-18-04.doc Page 7 of 19 construction trucks pretty much traveled at large and if they deemed that there is a shorter route that is the route they will take. Councilman Kavanagh asked whether he was saying that at the last meeting they only diverted from Sunridge MCO development trucks and all other trucks, concrete and dump trucks. which would be going to regular non-development homes, could still take Sunridge Drive. The Vice Mayor responded that they could go in any direction they want. He recalled that they had one-month worth of meetings about MCO's truck traffic and said that was exactly what they were talking about. Councilman Kavanagh stated that he was under the impression that they were talking about all trucks, mainly because they could not hire a Town employee to stand at the gate and say, "are you MCO or are you a private developer?" Vice Mayor Archambault responded that that was the motion and that was the way it was read. Mr. Pickering clarified that there was no motion, there was just direction from the Mayor saying "should we hire a consultant or not?" He said that was what staff had been looking at. Mayor Nichols asked whether the decision was to not allow any construction traffic on Sunridge and all construction traffic would have to go on Golden Eagle to go to the Eagle's Nest development. He added that this was the point of confusion at this point in time. Councilwoman Nicola requested that the Council review the scope of work proposed for the consultant and Mr. Pickering commented that although staff typically handled $11,000 contracts, he had the information and would be glad to read the project description. He said that the project "will investigate establishing a truck route for ingress/egress at the Eagle's Nest development construction site. This project is authorized on an all call basis." He said the issue was Sunridge or Golden Eagle and added that staff had found that most of the truck traffic would travel up Palisades. Councilwoman Nicola commented that during the Call to the Public the Council heard from at least one citizen concerned about traffic, lines of sight, and safety issues on Palisades. She said if they were going to hire a consultant to look at the safest route, she did not understand why they were not looking at a larger scope that would cost more than$11,000 but might provide better protection for the residents. Mr. Pickering advised that Palisades was a truck route and trucks would drive down there. He stated that they were not going to stop them from driving down Palisades. He added that if Councilwoman Nicola was talking about the lines of site on Sunridge after people got off of Palisades, the consultant would be looking at that for sure, but not just driving down Palisades. Councilwoman Nicola said she was suggesting that if they were going to use public funds to hire a consultant to look at the safety of the Town's streets, they should not be doing it for one developer or one special project. She added that if there were issues that needed to be addressed, the scope should be expanded to include those issues. Mr. Pickering commented that staff did not believe that was an issue and stated that trucks were going to drive down Palisades,it was a truck route, and a safety issue did not exist. (Discussion ensued as to what the actual decision of the Council was at the last meeting and staff indicated that they could obtain the minutes and provide this information.) Mayor Nichols said that that went beyond the scope of this agenda item and basically they were talking about Eagle's Nest,not Town-wide safety issues. Mr. Pickering asked the Council what the issue was that they wanted to look at the truck route. Mayor Nichols stated that he believed the issue was what trucks were allowed to go on Sunridge. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 8 of 19 Councilman Schlum commented that his understanding of the original motion of the truck route was that development traffic was defined as trucks and equipment that build the infrastructure and development and not construction traffic that might haul trusses up to the subdivision. He added that there was a question as to how many trucks were they talking about, what types of trucks, and commented on the fact that Fountain Hills still had a lot of infill lots and if they were only talking about infrastructure traffic, that was obviously a much shorter term. Councilman Kavanagh stated the opinion that the issue was still what was the safest route for all trucks and the main question was whether Golden Eagle was safe at that grade. He added that if it was not safe for MCO development trucks, it was also not safe for trucks going to a private home. He emphasized the importance of safe streets and recommended that they have the consultant tell them whether it would be safe to have all construction trucks go up Golden Eagle or whether they needed to route them somewhere else. Councilwoman Nicola commented that they needed to be prepared for the fact that there was no safe route with the current streets and if an engineering company told them that they needed to make modifications to one of the roads to make it a safe route, they needed to determine whether they were prepared to do so. Councilman Kavanagh responded that they would have no choice. Mayor Nichols advised that in his mind there was confusion as to whether something was a development truck or a construction truck. He said there were 244 home sites that were going to be developed in Eagle's Nest and added that what he was hearing was the resolution that the Vice Mayor thought was passed said that if MCO hired the truck to bring in cement for curbs, infrastructure or roads, they could travel in and out of Golden Eagle for the period of time that the infrastructure was being built. However, thw if they were dealing with construction trucks carrying trusses and cement for pads for homes,those trucks could take any route they want, Golden Eagle or Sunridge. The Vice Mayor concurred with the Mayor's summary and clarified that there was a difference between development traffic and construction traffic. He said that the discussion at that particular meeting was all about development traffic and the discussion they had with staff about conducting meetings was all about development traffic and the motion that was made was on that development traffic. He said that was all the motion was, the development traffic, not construction traffic that ran through the Town at large and would take the shortest route. Mayor Nichols commented that the public's perception might be that the resolution they passed was going to allow all traffic for the developments, the construction traffic, to go up and down Golden Eagle. He stated that if this was not the case, then he wanted the public to understand that they should not be surprised if they saw construction traffic going through Sunridge. Mr. Pickering informed the Council that he checked with the Public Works Director and that was the case. He said they stated that all traffic, all construction, all preliminary infrastructure, would travel up Golden Eagle. He added that if someone were building in Eagle's Nest, they would travel up Golden Eagle. Vice Mayor Archambault stated that they were then talking about a permanent truck route. Mr. Pickering responded yes, for that development, but once the development was completed, there would not be any construction traffic. Councilman Kehe commented that the traffic included concrete carriers as well as those who brought in trusses and roof tile, large heavy trucks. He added that his understanding was that they were talking about big trucks,not pickup trucks. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 9 of 19 Councilman Schlum noted that confusion still existed as to what the motion meant and what the truck route was as well as the term and duration. Councilwoman Nicola said that the cement trucks that had been going up Golden Eagle for the past two weeks were not going to Eagle's Nest. She added that homes were currently being built along Golden Eagle and back up in that area and there would be more to come when and if the State land was developed and annexed into Town. She stated that it was a big deal and it was her understanding that they were there because of a development agreement with MCO Properties that had to allow some truck traffic. She emphasized that they were not here talking about a permanent change in the truck route and asked how they were communicating to the homes that were currently under construction at the top of Golden Eagle that their truck route had changed. Mr. McGuire clarified that this was with respect to Eagle's Nest; it was not a permanent change to the ordinance, which had the truck routes fixed for the Town. He added that if later on the Council wanted to fix the truck routes, they would have to go back and amend the ordinance. He said they had found that a couple of the trucks that were flagged as going up Sunridge were actually going for construction off of Sunridge where homes other than Eagle's Nest were being built. He stated that it was an impossible task to determine where the trucks were going other than to know that the developer is directing all the truck drivers going into Eagle's Nest to use the route that that development was supposed to use, but not by ordinance. Councilwoman Nicola commented that they were talking about spending $11,000 of taxpayer funds to justify or not justify a developer's truck route because they were only talking about Eagle's Nest development. Councilman Kavanagh commented that the whole truck issue had brought to a head the question of whether or not the grade at the end of Golden Eagle was safe for trucks to go up. He said that if the 19% grade were not there they would not be talking about anything. He added that it had become an issue lately because up until now there were virtually no houses up there but now Eagle's Nest was going to be developed and possibly State trust land and there were going to be many trucks going up there. He stated that they had to decide whether it was safe to allow the heavy trucks to go up that big grade or whether they had to re-route them somewhere else. He said that was what he would like a consultant to tell them. He commented that maybe the real question is "what is the least unsafe route?" He pointed out that from a liability standpoint, they wanted to simply have the route that was the least dangerous. He added that they did not inadvertently want to have the most dangerous route, which they might have created and they needed to explore. He said that when the consultant came back with the findings, the Council could address the truck route intelligently. He noted that he did not have a problem with the consultant addressing mitigation efforts on whatever road they deemed the best. Councilman Kehe reported that over the last ten years, three truck accidents had occurred on Golden Eagle Boulevard, none of which involved a personal injury. Mayor Nichols requested that Councilmember Kehe's remarks be limited to the issue at hand. Councilman Kehe apologized and said that Councilman Kavanagh "opened the door" and he was "going in". Mr. McGuire commented that what they were really discussing was a yes or no on a contract and whether or not one route was safer than another they specifically could not discuss. He added that if they wanted to discuss the propriety of spending public funds as Councilwoman Nicola said in order to have the study at all,that was certainly open for discussion. • E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004Utegular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 10 of 19 Councilman Kehe expressed the opinion that discussing the steep hill on Golden Eagle Boulevard opened the door for discussion. Councilman Kavanagh said he would withdraw that and state instead "for any and all factors". Councilwoman Nicola commented that the agenda item stated Golden Eagle and the concern seemed to be the short section of steep grade and whether trucks could make it up the hill without going back down. Councilwoman Nicola MOVED that a consultant be hired for an amount not to exceed $5,000 to study only that section of Golden Eagle that exceeded 15% to determine the weight and safety of truck traffic in that area. Vice Mayor Archambault SECONDED the motion. Councilman Kavanagh MOVED to amend the motion to restore the $11,000 funding for a complete study of any and all safety situations. Mayor Nichols SECONDED the motion. Councilman Kavanagh said that before he became a member of the Council, like many other people, he had strong opinions about traffic regulations in the Town. He said he believed that the 25 miles-per-hour speed limit was ridiculous,too slow. Mayor Nichols asked Councilman Kavanagh to address comments regarding the amendment at this time. Councilman Kavanagh said that if there was a law suit, he believed the hill was the primary problem but not necessarily the only problem, and added that if they were going to go in, they might as well go all the way in and cover all their bases. He explained that that was why he believed they needed to give the consultant free reign to consider everything and not micromanage the consultant and diminish the value of it as a protection for the Town. Councilman Kavanagh stated the opinion that the issue was still what was the safest route for all trucks and the main question was whether Golden Eagle was safe at that grade. He added that if it was not safe for MCO development trucks, it was also not safe for trucks going to a private home. He emphasized the importance of safe streets and recommended that they have the consultant tell them whether it would be safe to have all construction trucks go up Golden Eagle or whether they needed to route them somewhere else. Mayor Nichols commented that Councilman Kehe's remarks were going past the amendment. Councilman Kavanagh said in answer to the first part of Councilman Kehe's remarks, the prior record was not that safe; there were videotapes of trucks backing up. Mayor Nichols sated that Councilman Kavanagh was also wandering from the issue at hand. Mayor Nichols clarified that the amendment was to proceed with authorizing $11,000 for the study instead of$5,000. Councilwoman Nicola added and also to look at both roads and determine which route, not look at the entire Town. Mayor Nichols commented that the Council was charged with the fiduciary responsibility of protecting the Town's assets and stated the opinion that they should get a second opinion on what was the safest route to go to build on Eagle's Nest. He added that a second opinion was necessary in order to protect the Town should a lawsuit arise in the future. He said that should law suits occur, he wanted to be able to say that as a Council they did everything they could to protect the assets of the Town. He noted that when they passed the resolution they had advice from professional staff and legal counsel not to go the way they did and that was on the record right now. He added that he wanted to try to support the position they took as a Council and if the independent study did that for them, that was good because it was more protection. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session I 1-18-04.doc Page 11 of 19 Councilman Kavanagh commented that before they threw out the full study, since the representative from the consulting company was here, he would like to ask him about the alternative. Councilman Kavanagh was advised that the representative was not present at the meeting. Mr. Pickering expressed the opinion that the alternative was going to be the other street so to simply look at that and come up with the figure of$5,000, if they would do the work for that, would not give them enough information upon which to base a decision. Vice Mayor Archambault pointed out that they kept talking about liability and said it would seem prudent to him that if they wanted to bring a consultant in, they should bring one in to look at the decision the Council made, not change that decision and not look at two different routes,just look at the decision and say "had staff done their job, had they mitigated that hill, had they signed it right, was there something else that could be done?" He stated that that was what it was all about, they already made the decision, and if they wanted a second opinion to back up that decision for the sake of liability, they should do so. Councilwoman Nicola agreed with the Vice Mayor's remarks and pointed out that the motivator behind this was not necessarily Golden Eagle, but the residents at Sunridge Canyon and the big trucks coming down the narrow strip of road. Mayor Nichols noted that Council was straying from the issue at hand. Councilman Kavanagh said he did not understand how they wanted to limit the scope and the Vice Mayor said it would just be a study on Golden Eagle and was the signage right, was there something else they should use to mitigate impacts. He added that the decision had already been made on the route. Councilman Kavanagh commented that they were not sure it was the right decision and asked whether they were going to say to the consultant "can trucks reasonably go up this hill?" He said if their answer was no, he wanted to know what they would do, if there were no other alternatives. Vice Mayor Archambault advised that they were not being asked to make the Council's decision, they would be asked to make a decision as to whether the road was properly signed. He added that he knew trucks could go up that hill as he had been in trucks that went up that road and talked with contractors as well. Councilman Kavanagh pointed out that they were talking about pubic safety and emphasized the importance of selecting the safest route, not just one they could get away with and legally cover themselves. He added that someone could be fatally injured and that must be avoided. Councilwoman Nicola said she was not at the previous meeting when this was discussed and asked whether there was discussion on signage or special speed limits. The Mayor responded that the speed limit would remain the same, no changes. Mr. Pickering informed the Council that when they contracted with consultants, they did not "handcuff them". He said they were professionals and would look at a wide variety of scenarios and issues prior to rendering their recommendations. He added that he would recommend they not do the study at all if they decided to just study this small little section because they would not get a true recommendation. Councilman Kavanagh stated that he was not accusing anyone of having any motives but if he were on a jury after an accident, based upon what he was hearing here it seemed that the Council was trying to craft and limit the study so that the only possible answer the consultant could give was that we could get away with going up that hill. He added that the deeper and deeper they got into liability, they needed a 440 consultant to be un-handcuffed and tell us what the safest route was for our residents. He stated that he could not understand why there was any doubt that they should proceed in that manner. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 12 of 19 Mayor Nichols commented that he looked at the study as an insurance policy and if it costs $11,000 versus $5,000, it was worth it to ensure the safety of the Town's residents. In response to a question from Councilman Kehe, Mr. McGuire advised that the motion on the floor at the current time was the amendment at $11,000. He added that when they got back to the main motion, the discussion would be whether it was a good idea to hire a consultant to look at the traffic flow from construction traffic flow into Eagle's Nest. Councilman Kehe asked if he could speak to the issue of the hill after that because it kept coming up and he had not been allowed to address it. Councilman Kehe said he wanted to talk about the hill. Mayor Nichols stated that he would allow Councilmember Kehe to speak but if his comments went beyond the bounds, he would be cut off. Councilman Kehe said that he wanted to make sure that everyone knew what a 19% grade was and provided an explanation. He said that properly loaded trucks would make the hill and as they progress, truckers would soon ascertain that in order to make the hill they would have to carry 9 yards instead of 11. Councilman Kavanagh stated that he was not sure that was true and he had seen pictures of trucks having to back up the hill and he did not know whether they were overloaded or not. He added that trucks had different ages, a new truck might make it, and an old truck might not. He said it was a technical decision not one that should be made by Councilmembers with no knowledge of the area. He said they have over- ridden the Town's own technical staff and need protection, either an outside consultant to say that over- riding staff was okay because they were wrong or to say our staff was right and we went too far and must correct the error before someone got hurt. Mayor Nichols concurred with Councilman Kavanagh's remarks and said he was not qualified to make that decision and he did not believe anyone on the dais was qualified enough to render a decision as to the best safety route. Councilman McMahan commented that staff in the past had indicated that Golden Eagle was safe and said that the Town Engineer who was serving in that position when Golden Eagle was turned over to the Town considered it safe then. He asked why they were changing their minds now. He expressed the opinion that they would save a lot of money by asking staff to go back and revisit the situation. Councilman Kavanagh noted that when this was initially discussed, Town staff said that Golden Eagle was not the safest route and trucks should be on Sunridge when they were full. He added that staff reiterated this statement at the last meeting. Mayor Nichols called for a vote on the amendment. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: Councilman Schlum Aye Councilwoman Nicola Nay Councilman Kehe Nay Councilman McMahan Nay Mayor Nichols Aye Councilman Kavanagh Aye Vice Mayor Archambault Nay The motion FAILED by majority vote (4 to 3). The Mayor asked for a vote on the original motion. • E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 13 of 19 Councilwoman Nicola repeated the motion as follows: Councilwoman Nicola MOVED to authorize staff to hire a consultant, for an amount not to exceed $5,000, to look at the section of Golden Eagle over 15% grade and determine the weights and signage that are appropriate. Mr. Ward expressed the opinion that they would be unable to locate a consultant who would be able to study just the 15% grade. He said they would have to study the areas above and below those percentages. He stated that they were only dealing with the 19% and they had to go beyond those parameters in order to make a determination. Mr. Ward commented that he would like to see the motion contain clearer direction and the Mayor asked how he would word it. Mr. Ward said he would never get into that area of expertise. Councilwoman Nicola stated that the agenda read that they were looking at a consultant to only look at Golden Eagle Boulevard and pointed out that the agenda did not state that they were looking at both routes again and were going to ask the consultant to come back to the Council and advise them which was the better route to take. She said she could not support the motion as proposed because it had not, in her opinion, been properly agendized. She reiterated that the concern was the hill, the grade, and said they posted that they were going to look at Golden Eagle and if we were going to hire a consultant, only have them look at Golden Eagle and tell the Council what could be done to make the grade safe. Councilwoman Nicola said that she would expand her motion to include all of Golden Eagle Boulevard. Mayor Nichols said that the motion was to direct Town staff to hire an independent engineering firm to study the Golden Eagle truck route and its safety. .41)Councilman Kavanagh said they did not want to talk safety because they might get the wrong.answer. Councilwoman Nicola asked what they were hiring a consultant for and Councilman Kavanagh responded to tell us whether it was safe. He said he understood that Councilwoman Nicola's concern was a technical one, that it wasn't written properly, and stated that if that was all that was stopping her from approving a full safety study he would be more than happy to move to adjourn this to the next meeting so it could be properly agendized and voted upon. Councilwoman Nicola commented that she did not believe the Council had been provided enough information and said without a reasonable understanding of the issue, how could they expect the members of the public to have an understanding. In response to a question from Councilman Kavanagh, Councilwoman Nicola advised that if staff brought a contract before the Council she would vote on it. Councilman Kavanagh MOVED that this item be continued to the next meeting so that the item could be adequately posted and the Council could discuss spending the $11,000 for the study that he and the Mayor thought was being requested, which was the safest route for all trucks going up to Eagle's Nest. Mayor Nichols SECONDED the motion. Mr. Pickering stated that he would ask the consultant to be present at that meeting. Councilman Kehe commented that he heard Councilman Kavanagh say "isn't that what we originally wanted" but said that was not what he had heard over the last half hour. He said they were going back to the same situation they came in with. Councilman Kavanagh explained that he did not want to study the whole Town,just the truck route. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004Utegular Session I 1-18-04.doc Page 14 of 19 Councilwoman Nicola WITHDREW her original motion and Vice Mayor Archambault WITHDREW his second to the motion. Councilwoman Nicola explained that since she was withdrawing her original motion, there was nothing to table. She added that the amendment already failed. Councilman Kavanagh commented that Councilwoman Nicola had indicated that she would discuss the item at the next meeting and she responded that she changed her mind. She added that the issue had been voted on twice, originally in October and just voted on and failed 4 to 3. She said they were attempting to vote on it a third time and that was why she was withdrawing her original motion and noted that the Vice Mayor had withdrawn his second. Mr. McGuire noted that there was a motion to continue the item to the next meeting where it would be discussed as the full study of both routes. Councilman Kavanagh WITHDREW his motion to table the item and MOVED that the Town spend $11,000 for the study by the consultant, as previously requested, to examine both routes and determine which was the safest. Mayor Nichols SECONDED the motion. Discussion ensued relative to the fact that the motion was already made and voted on and Councilman Kavanagh disagreed and said it was withdrawn. Councilman Kavanagh said he made an amendment to a motion that was withdrawn. Mr. McGuire expressed the opinion that since the original motion was withdrawn, there was nothing on the table at the current time except Councilman Kavanagh's motion that was in order. Councilman Kehe objected and MOVED for the consideration of the motion and noting that it required a 2/3rds majority vote (5 votes) on the basis that he earlier stated. He added that he appreciated the support of those who believed the matter was ill conceived at the last minute and under duress. Mr. McGuire clarified that the motion to object to consideration was an affirmative vote. He said if someone was in favor of not having this item heard this evening, his/her vote would be nay on this motion and if they were in favor of hearing it tonight, his/her vote should be aye. Councilmember Kehe noted that parliamentary procedure could not be debated or amended. Mr. McGuire noted that he agreed with Councilmember Kehe and said the discussion was whether or not they wanted to do this motion and added that if he did not want to discuss it that was fine. Mr. McGuire reiterated that an aye vote meant they wanted to discuss it now and a nay vote meant they did not want to discuss it now. He added that all the motions were off the floor except for a motion to object to the consideration of a motion. He said that two or more members had to vote aye in order to continue to talk about the issue and stated that if five or more people said nay, the item would not be talked about any more and the motion could not be considered. He added that it was a one-third majority. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: Councilwoman Nicola Nay Councilman McMahan Nay Councilman Kavanagh Aye Vice Mayor Archambault Nay Councilman Kehe Nay Councilman Schlum Aye Mayor Nichols Aye • E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 15 of 19 The motion FAILED by a 3 to 4 vote. Mayor Nichols said they would now return to the main motion. Councilman Kavanagh commented that he had been on the Council for over four years and involved in a number of heated battles and in all those times and throughout all those controversies there was never a motion made to attempt to "muzzle" a Council discussion of an item. He stated that this was the low point of his entire Council career, that through technical parliamentarianism, members would vote to try and silence discussion on an important issue that members of the public have come out to hear. He said that he would like the record to reflect that he was very disappointed, this was a significant low, and he was very sad that it happened. He said he would now like to discuss his motion, which was to hire the consultant in the amount of$11,000 to tell the Town,which was the safest truck route for the trucks. Councilman Kavanagh reiterated that before he became a member of the Council he had firm ideas about traffic issues in Town, including the 35 miles-per-hour speed limit on Saguaro (he thought it should be 40) and no right turn on Shea from Palisades and one of his first tasks was to change these ridiculous laws. He said before he did anything, he talked with Randy Harrell and Tom Ward to get information on the issues, and they gave him their side of the story. He stated that to this day he still believed they were wrong and that 35 miles-per-hour was too slow and you should be able to make a right turn at the intersection. He added that he had never lobbied Councilmembers to over-ride that technical opinion or put the motion up because when you were dealing with technical issues, you had to go with staff. He said that some members of Council broke that rule with respect to the truck route; staff stated that Golden Eagle was not the safest route and their position was disregarded. He further stated that at the current time they had over-ridden staff and had what staff believed to be an unsafe traffic condition. He added that they desperately needed a consultant to review the matter and emphasized that no matter which way the consultant's recommendation went, the Town would win. He added that either it would provide the Town added liability protection should an accident occur in the future because technical expertise was ye)sought or it would provide the Town an opportunity to correct safety hazards and safeguard public safety. Mayor Nichols asked whether anyone in the audience wished to speak on whether or not the Town should hire a consultant. He emphasized that they were not to talk about the safety of the truck routes. Nancy Henry, 15649 Golden Eagle Ms. Henry addressed the Council and said that Councilman Kavanagh could not be more correct on this issue. She asked the Council to take into consideration the need to hire a consultant and have them review the truck route and determine whether the Council had made a good decision. She requested that they do this for the safety of the community and the financial stability of the Town. Jerry Cain, 15002 E. Toluca Circle Mr. Cain stated that he had a lot of confidence in the knowledge, expertise and integrity of all the Councilmembers and added that he appreciated all the time and effort they had expended on this matter. He said he really felt that a lot of study had gone into this matter and a decision was made. He expressed the opinion that spending money for another study by an independent engineer was unnecessary and should not be done. John McNeill, 14508 N. Creosote Mr. McNeill stated the opinion that the study was a waste of time and said if it was all about the grade, they had numerous grades of 18% in the hills on even narrower roads than Golden Eagle. He said that people would be building on an 18% grade in Eagle's Nest where permission had already been granted. He added that if they wanted to spend money, they should spend the $11,000 on a study to determine how to make Golden Eagle safer. He stated that the Town should work with MCO, which created the problem in the first place. He urged them to exercise their own reasonable judgment and noted that Sunridge Drive was constructed way too narrowly. E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 16 of 19 Mary Paulsrud, 13326 Manzanita Ms. Paulsrud said she attended the last meeting and agreed with their decision. She commended them on the great exchange of information and stated that if they voted to proceed with the study, they had to make sure it was not swayed in any way. She added that knowing how the Mayor and staff felt, she wondered how a totally objective consultant could be hired. She said she would like to see a study back up the Council's October decision. John Rezek, 15427 N. Sunridge Mr. Rezek expressed the opinion that at the previous meeting the Council did a very good job of presenting their opinions and said that a number of Councilmembers personally inspected the road, talked to truck drivers, drove with them and the truckers said a properly loaded truck was safe going up the street. He spoke in opposition to bringing in another decision and urged them not to spend more time and money and proceed with their correct decision. Kevin Brown, 15004 E. Golden Eagle Boulevard Mr. Brown informed the Council that he cut short a meeting he had in Detroit to attend this meeting and said the decisions his team makes saves lives and therefore the best information must be considered. He stressed the importance of using all information possible and trusting the experts. He said that tonight the Council was in the same situation he and his team were in and they were charged with protecting the citizens of Fountain Hills. He added that the original decision was made ignoring the input of experts and urged them to hire a consultant. Jim Campbell, 13430 Sunridge Drive Mr. Campbell said that he had been a builder since 197 land had worked with a lot of engineers. He stated that engineers would not put their license on the line using subjective criteria, and added that a watered down report would be the result because the engineers would protect themselves. He stated that they were not going to make a hard and fast decision and $11,000 was not going to buy it. He added that there were too many criteria involved. Irene Cain, 15002 E. Toluca Ms. Cain noted that nothing is 100% and no matter what we did, there was always a bit of a gamble involved. She said there would always be the risk of lawsuits on something like this. She noted that the Councilmembers were elected to make decisions and she was proud of the Town and the current Council. She thanked them for all their time and studies and said she appreciated their efforts. She spoke in support of upholding their original decision and not spending$11,000 for another study. The Mayor thanked all of the speakers for their input. Councilwoman Nicola stated the opinion that it was unfortunate that staff did not bring this decision to the Council a few months ago before it reached this point. She said she viewed this as a political way around a decision that was already made. She stated that she attended two out of the three meetings and noted that staff asked residents to rank what they thought would be the best route out of several possibilities. She added that although she appreciated the public input, she did not understand why they were now again questioning this. She said she talked to staff and MCO Properties about properly loaded trucks and truck speed limits and added that there were a lot of things that could be done to make the streets safer. She spoke in opposition to spending $11,000 to hire a consultant to revisit the issue rather than spending the money on making the street safer was something she cannot support. She agreed with the speaker's comment that they would not get their money's worth. The Mayor called for the question. A roll call vote was taken with the following results: • E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 17 of 19 Councilman Schlum Aye Councilman Kavanagh Aye Councilwoman Nicola Nay Councilman Kehe Nay Vice Mayor Archambault Nay Mayor Nichols Aye Councilman McMahan Nay The motion FAILED by a 3 to 4 vote. Mayor Nichols commented that they would retain the decision that was made on October 4th AGENDA ITEM #11 — COUNCIL ASSESSMENT AND REVIEW OF THE MEETING TO IDENTIFY PROCEDURAL STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES AND DISCUSS POSSIBLE IMPROVEMENTS FOR FUTURE MEETINGS. Councilwoman Nicola said she had concerns regarding the wording of agenda item #10 and the lack of information provided to Council. She stated that it made it very difficult for her to make a decision. Mr. Pickering commented that the original motion was to place the item on the agenda to see if they wanted to have a discussion on it. He said staff would have been happy to bring in the consultant and scope of services. He stated that he did not like the way the whole agenda item was handled because he did not believe that it ever should have been at the Council level, it was a technical decision that staff was supposed to handle and they did so all the time. He added that the Council had gotten into talking about technical items and noted that they were not traffic engineers, who had strict standards. He said that talking about the items placed liability on the Town. He expressed the opinion that technical discussions should not be discussed without expert opinion. Councilman Kehe responded to Mr. Pickering saying, "You brought this on yourself " and noting that traffic was dumped onto Sunridge without notifying any of the residents. Councilman Kehe stated residents were notified when it was over. He said the Council should not be restricted. Mr. Pickering noted that that was part of the motion approved by the Council when they went through this so they could blame him for not notifying them but he was saying that technical decisions should not be discussed back and forth and voted on in a public setting. He said that perhaps he should have brought an expert in at the beginning. The Vice Mayor thanked Mr. Pickering for his comments. AGENDA ITEM#12—COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION TO THE TOWN MANAGER. None. AGENDA ITEM#13—SUMMARY OF COUNCIL REQUESTS BY THE TOWN MANAGER. None AGENDA ITEM#14—ADJOURNMENT Councilwoman Nicola MOVED that the Council adjourn and Vice Mayor Archambault SECONDED the motion, which CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. The meeting adjourned at 8:27 p.m. • E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004Utegular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 18 of 19 TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS By ' / =!L .Z "I/ Wally Nichols,Mayor ATTEST AND PREPARED BY: Bevelyn J. e , own Clerk CERTIFICATION I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Session held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills on the 18th day of November 2004. I further certify that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present. DATED this 16th day of December 2004. ,Z.11//-eh tit Bevelyn J. Bide own Clerk • E:\BBender\Documents\Current Minutes 2004\Regular Session 11-18-04.doc Page 19 of 19