HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012.1018.TCRM.Minutesz:\council packets\2012\r11-1-12\121018m.docx Page 1 of 15
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE REGULAR SESSION OF THE
FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
October 18, 2012
* CALL TO ORDER AND PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Mayor Kavanagh called the meeting to order at 6:30 p.m. in the Town Hall Council Chambers.
* INVOCATION – Deacon Dick Smith, Church of the Ascension
* ROLL CALL
Present for roll call were the following members of the Fountain Hills Town Council: Mayor Kavanagh,
Councilmember Yates, Vice Mayor Leger, Councilmember Brown, Councilmember Elkie, Councilmember Dickey and
Councilmember Hansen. Town Manager Ken Buchanan, Town Attorney Andrew McGuire and Town Clerk Bevelyn J.
Bender were also present.
* MAYOR'S REPORT
None.
* SCHEDULED PUBLIC APPEARANCES/PRESENTATIONS
None.
* CALL TO THE PUBLIC
Town Clerk Bender advised that one citizen wished to address the Council under this agenda item.
Duaine Olson addressed the Council and said that he is a retired resident of the Town who lives on a fixed income. He
said that Cox Cable continues to raise their rates and reduce their channels and when he called them he was told that this
was beyond their control and the only way he could get the channels back would be to upgrade his service (he just has
the basic package). He stated that if he were to do that it would double his current cost. He asked if the Town had ever
entertained the idea of installing a television transmitter on the back of the McDowell Mountains so that residents in
Town, Rio Verde and probably Scottsdale as well could pick up free television service without paying for cable or
satellite service. He added that if they have not entertained that in the past , he would like to know, if it would be
possible to do something like that in the future.
Mayor Kavanagh thanked Mr. Olson for his comments.
* CONSENT AGENDA
AGENDA ITEM #1 – CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING THE TOWN COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES
FROM OCTOBER 4, 2012.
AGENDA ITEM #2 – CONSIDERATION OF RESOLUTION 2012-23, ACCEPTING A "SIDEWALK
EASEMENT AGREEMENT" FROM THE EAGLE RIDGE AT FOUNTAIN HILLS PROPERTY OWNERS'
ASSOCIATION, INC., ALONG PORTIONS OF THE PALISADES BOULEVARD FRONTAGE OF EAGLE
RIDGE TRACT F.
AGENDA ITEM #3 - CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING A WINE FESTIVAL LICENSE/WINE FAIR
LICENSE SUBMITTED BY CORY WHALIN RUSSELL, REPRESENTING SU VINO WINERY, IN
CONJUNCTION WITH THE GREAT GRAPE STOMP 5K EVENT, TO BE HELD ON AVENUE OF THE
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FOUNTAINS AND VERDE RIVER DRIVE, WHICH IS SCHEDULED FOR NOVEMBER 3, 2012, FROM
10:00 A.M. TO 5:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM #4 - CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING A SPECIAL EVENT LIQUOR LICENSE
APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY NANCY C. ZAW, REPRESENTING THE AM ERICAN LEGION
AUXILIARY FOUNTAIN HILLS UNIT 58, INC., LOCATED AT 16837 E. PARKVIEW, FOUNTAIN HILLS,
AZ, FOR THE PURPOSE OF A FUNDRAISER. EVENT TO BE HELD AT AVENUE OF THE FOUNTAINS
AND LA MONTANA, SCHEDULED TO BE HELD ON FRIDAY AND SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 9 AND 10,
2012, FROM 9:00 A.M. TO 6:00 P.M., AND SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 2012, FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 6:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM #5 - CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING A SPECIAL EVENT LIQUOR LICENSE
APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY ROBERT D. SCHMITZ, REPRESENTING THE AMERICAN LEGION
POST 58, LOCATED AT 16837 E. PARKVIEW, FOUNTAIN HILLS, AZ, FOR THE PURPOSE OF A
FUNDRAISER. EVENT TO BE HELD AT 16837 E. PARKVIEW, SCHEDULED TO BE HELD ON FRIDAY,
SATURDAY AND SUNDAY, NOVEMBER 9, 10 AND 11, 2012 FROM 9:00 A.M. TO 10:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM #6 - CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING A SPECIAL EVENT LIQUOR LICENSE
APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY ROBERT "BOE" JAMES, REPRESENTING THE VETERANS OF
FOREIGN WARS, POST #7507, FOR THE PURPOSE OF A FUNDRAISER. EVENT TO BE HELD AT
SAGUARO BOULEVARD AND AVENUE OF THE FOUNTAINS, SCHEDULED TO BE HELD ON FRIDAY
AND SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 9 AND 10, 2012, FROM 9:00 A.M. TO 10:00 P.M. AND SUNDAY,
NOVEMBER 11, 2012 FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 10:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM #7 - CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING A SPECIAL EVENT LIQUOR LICENSE
APPLICATION SUBMITTED BY MICHAEL A. FLEMING, REPRESENTING THE KIWANIS CLUB OF
FOUNTAIN HILLS, FOR THE PURPOSE OF A FUNDRAISER. EVENT TO BE HELD IN CONJUNCTION
WITH THE 9TH ANNUAL FOUNTAIN HILLS FINE ART & WINE AFFAIRE, AT AVENUE OF THE
FOUNTAINS, SCHEDULED TO BE HELD ON FRIDAY, SATURDAY AND SUNDAY, MARCH 15, 16 AND
17, 2013, FROM 10:00 A.M. TO 5:00 P.M.
AGENDA ITEM #8 - CONSIDERATION OF APPROVING A CONTRACT FOR SERVICES FROM THE
GREATER PHOENIX ECONOMIC COUNCIL (GPEC), IN THE AMOUNT OF $8,789, FOR FY 12-13.
Councilmember Yates MOVED to approve the Consent Agenda as listed and Councilmember Brown SECONDED the
motion.
There were no citizens wishing to speak on these agenda items. A roll call vote was taken with the following results:
Councilmember Dickey Aye
Vice Mayor Leger Aye
Councilmember Hansen Aye
Councilmember Yates Aye
Councilmember Brown Aye
Councilmember Elkie Aye
Mayor Kavanagh Aye
The motion CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY (7-0).
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REGULAR AGENDA
AGENDA ITEM #9 – CONSIDERATION OF AUTHORIZING THE TRANSFER OF APPROPRIATION
FROM THE CONTINGENCY EXPENDITURE LINE ITEM WITHIN THE TOWN MANAGER DIVISION,
ADMINISTRATION DEPARTMENT OF THE GENERAL FUND BUDGET, TO THE DEVELOPMENT
SERVICES DEPARTMENT/FACILITY DIVISION MAINTENANCE LINE ITEMS IN THE AMOUNT OF
$10,000 FOR THE DEDICATION AND NAMING CELEBRATION OF THE TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
CIVIC CENTER TO CUTILLO PLAZA.
Town Manager Ken Buchanan addressed the Council relative to this agenda item and said that this is for the dedication
event for the naming of Cutillo Plaza on December 5th. He indicated his willingness to respond to any questions from
the Council.
Councilmember Hansen MOVED to approve authorizing the transfer of appropriation from the contingency expenditure
line item within the Town Manager Division, Administration Department of the General Fund budget to the
Development Services Department/Facility Division maintenance line items in the amount of $10,000 for the dedication
and naming celebration of the Town of Fountain Hills Civic Center to Cutillo Plaza and Councilmember Dickey
SECONDED the motion.
There were no citizens wishing to speak on this agenda item.
Councilmember Elkie noted that the estimated cost of the celebration is $2,500 and requested that Mr. Buchanan
elaborate on this.
Mr. Buchanan advised that Deputy Town Manager/Finance Director Julie Ghetti would speak to this issue.
Ms. Ghetti said that the figure is just an estimate and staff still does not have any idea of what the cost of the actual
celebration/reception will be so $2,500 has been estimated but staff still has to work through all the details.
Councilmember Hansen advised that some of the costs that would be included are for chairs, refreshments, invitations,
etc.
Councilmember Dickey asked if in the projected capital projects under the centennial circle for FY12/13, if the $48,000
had anything to do with that and staff indicated it did not.
In response to a request from the Mayor, Director of Development Services P aul Mood displayed a map that depicted
the locations of the wall signs (two locations), the monument structure, the bronze plaque and the aerial photograph
("You are here"). He confirmed that former Mayor Cutillo's biography will be inscribed on the plaque rather than on the
monument.
Councilmember Elkie asked if the Council will see the final products before they are ordered and Mr. Mood advised that
staff is "under the gun" to get the signage ordered within the next week or two but added that staff will make sure that
the Council gets to see what everything will look like before the order goes in.
The motion CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY (7-0).
AGENDA ITEM #10 – DISCUSSION OF CONCEPTUAL PLANS FOR THE AVENUE OF THE FOUNTAINS
MEDIAN IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.
Mr. Mood addressed the Council relative to this agenda item and stated that approximately two years ago staff was
directed by the Council to look at the median on the Avenue of the Fountains -- its aging and condition -- and to
determine whether a remediation or a revitalization project was needed. He advised that there are issues with the
irrigation and the electrical and staff also took a look at the Fountain but knew that they did not have sufficient staff in-
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house to do the electrical, design/major redesign and structural work. He reported that in March of 2012, the Council
approved a professional services agreement with J2 Design in the amount of $19,727.06 for a site inventory and analysis
as well as conceptual planning for the Avenue of the Fountains Median Improvement project to be brought back for
future discussions.
Mr. Mood informed the Council that J2 Design completed the Site Inventory and Analysis in June of 2012 and the report
looked at the existing conditions of the median hardscape, trees and plants, irrigation system, electrical system and
fountain. He added that the report also included the results and comments from 367 residents as part of a public
questionnaire that was made available through a variety of media sources. Mr. Mood stated that J2 Design put together
an initial concept to remediate the median in its current configuration as well as a revitalization concept. He noted that
J2 Design and staff then met with business owners along the Avenue of the Fountains and representatives from the
Chamber of Commerce, the Farmers Market, the Public Art Committee, the Downtown Greening Committee and the
Theater project to get their input. He said that from this input J2 Design finalize d the remediation concept and
developed two revitalization concepts that were presented at a public open house on September 5, 2012. He stated that
these concepts were then presented to the Council at the September 11, 2012 Work Study Session.
Mr. Mood further advised that from the input received by Council at the September 11th meeting, the remediation
concept plan includes new electrical and irrigation systems, mechanical enclosures, new water features , entry features, a
10-foot wide pedestrian pathway, locations for public art, shade structures at two plazas and electrical conduits for future
pedestrian and accent lighting. He noted that existing trees will be removed as recommended by a certified arborist as
well as trees in direct conflict with major features of the project.
Mr. Mood discussed funding and reported that the conceptual cost estimate for construction is approximately $1,800,000
with an additional $200,000 for design related services. He said that the estimate, which includes shade structures,
exceeds the current budget of $1,800,000 and added that if the Council would like to have the shade structures included
in the project then a budget adjustment will be required. He pointed out that the current fund balance of the Downtown
Excise Tax is $2,075,000 and may be allocated for this project at the Council's discretion. He said that representatives
of J2 Design are present this evening to respond to any questions from the Council.
Mayor Kavanagh called for a motion on this agenda item.
Councilmember Brown stated that he would like to put on the table that the Council postpone this for at least a month to
allow staff to gather more information before the Council actually takes a vote on this item.
Town Attorney Andrew McGuire said that he does not believe that this particular item calls for a mot ion and it is just
discussion at this point in time (Agenda Item #11 would be where the Council action occurs).
Ms. Bender advised that she has received five requests to speak to the Council on this agenda item.
Pam Aister addressed the Council and when she asked residents why yellow ribbons had been placed on the trees along
the Avenue most responded that they were for the troops, fighting cancer or celebrating the Town and she said no and
asked what else could they be for -- perhaps to cut down those trees and people were shocked because most people have
not heard anything about these plans. She displayed a poster and said that she represents the residents in Town who do
not want the trees to be cut down. She stressed the importance of trees and their po sitive impact on clean air. She noted
that the Town is raising money to plant trees and asked why they would want to cut down big, beautiful trees that
provide both beauty and shade. She said that people do not want metal and cement and reiterated the importance of
preserving the Town's natural beauty. She discussed the project's associated costs and expressed that they already have a
great plan, the Swaback plan, and urged the Council to spend wisely and preserve the trees.
Jerry Butler, representing the Greening of Downtown Committee, addressed the Council and said that the Committee
wishes to express their support of the proposed project. He noted that the Committee was formed in 2009 to implement
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one of the nine catalysts in the Downtown Vision Plan and since their beginning, the Committee has raised over
$200,000 in private funds to help finance a very successful public/private cooperative of adding trees and landscaping to
Fountain Park and sprucing up some of the downtown lots. He stated that toni ght he is here to state that the Committee
is ready to support another public/private cooperative -- the Greening of the Median. He advised that they would like to
see the median taken to a new level and encouraged the Council to give the area a new purpose by incorporating
amenities that eventually will transform the area into an event mall or an event plaza. He said if the area held more
events it just might attract more developers into the downtown area. He added that the Committee believes that an event
mall is an appropriate use of sales tax dollars, particularly those dollars that have been collected for economic
development. He noted that only 11% of the 367 residents that responded to the survey referred to by Mr. Mood
opposed the funding and that means 89% are in support.
Mr. Butler reminded the Council that Mr. Swaback encouraged people to keep an open mind as far as concepts and
suggestions although at first there may be a tendency to resist them but in order to move forward they have to be ready
to welcome change. He added that the Greening Committee hopes that the Council will take the initiative to invest
whatever resources are necessary to make the area an outstanding statement for Fountain Hills even if it takes several
budget years to accomplish. He added that the Committee is prepared to help in this endeavor and to start, once the
project has received the green light from the Council, they will prepare an application to the State for a grant for a
program that the Town received $15,000 from in 2010 and now the funding is up to a maximum of $20,000. He stated
that the Committee believes they will be successful again and this grant will help jumpstart the event plaza. He thanked
the Council for their time.
Michael Miller addressed the Council and provided a brief history of his background including 25 years in real estate
development. He stated the development of medians has never influenced his development. He added that medians
should try and complement development but should not dictate what the development consists of. He advised that he
spoke to three of his colleagues and they all concur with his statement -- the median should follow what happens on the
south side of the Avenue and it should not precede it. He said that they should not spend the money just because the y
have it and in his opinion the median functions fine right now. He stated that he is all for necessary repairs and
maintenance but removing trees and improving the curb he believes will do absolutely nothing to attract developers. He
added that what is important to developers is economic development and the needs of the community and said that in his
estimation the proposal represents a total waste of resources.
Tom Hulme addressed the Council and said he is a long-time resident who has watched the trees grow over the years
and enjoyed them immensely. He stated that he agrees that something should be done to the median eventually but not
at this time. He expressed the opinion that the money should be used to improve the roads and that is what will brin g
people into Town. He urged the Council to fix the roads now and do the median later.
Charlotte McCluskey addressed the Council and briefly highlighted her background and significant Town involvement.
She said that sales tax collection is the Town's life blood and it has allowed more organizations to stage events in the
downtown. She added that the proposal will help events attract more people into the downtown area and will promote
the Town. She noted that some of the Town events have outgrown their s pace and the median project will add so much
to the Town and enhance its ability to do more. She highlighted a number of improvements that she believes will
enhance events and attendance at those events.
Mayor Kavanagh thanked all of the speakers for their input.
Councilmember Yates asked how many of the trees have to be removed for safety purposes and Mr. Mood advised that
he believes the arborists identified 16 trees total for removal due to health and/or safety reasons and survivability during
construction. He added that there would be additional trees that would need to be removed to accommodate the design.
He said that off the top of his head he believes they would remove approximately 30 trees and over 100 24 -inch box
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trees would be replanted (or 50 if they went to 36-inch box trees). He confirmed that all of the trees that would be
removed would be replaced. He noted that there are probably ten trees that are actually health or safety risks.
Councilmember Yates said that whether they proceed with the project or not those issues (problems with the trees)
would have to be addressed and Mr. Mood replied that if they just did the remediation project (the electrical, irrigation,
repairs to the fountains in place, that would cost a little over $1 million) they would still want to take care of the trees
that the arborists recommended for removal. He added that if they remove a fountain and replace it, some of the trees
are healthy but he doesn't think they could do that without removing the trees or severely damaging them.
Mayor Kavanagh advised that she walked up and down the Avenue and looked at all of the trees that are marked and she
did notice that they are not getting much shade out of quite a few of the palm trees and a number of fir trees do not
provide shade either. She said she believes that one thing they are looking for is a lot of shade. She further stated that
there are orange trees that are well beyond their years and are quite messy (also not providing much shade).
Councilmember Dickey asked if the trees that would be planted would comply with the Town's low-water requirements
and Mr. Mood confirmed that they would.
Councilmember Dickey questioned whether there were any other funding mechanisms that could be used (parks and
recreation, streets, etc.), and Mr. McGuire advised that development fees are available for and used for growth-related
projects as outlined in the Development Fee Study. He said that the study was updated in 2009 and if it is not in that
study then the funds would not be available for use. He noted that the fee study will be updated in about 18 months
(completed by then) but if something was not included before it cannot apply now.
Vice Mayor Leger thanked the speakers for their comments earlier in the meeting. He stated that he has thought long
and hard about the trees and said that he would like to propose that they target and remove only those trees that are in
direct conflict with the major design of the project (if they decide to move forward with the project). He further stated
that he believes if the arborists went across the country they would find an abundance of trees with issues and he thinks
the whole issue of taking trees down is being driven by the project. He said that this would allow them to maintain a
number of trees.
Vice Mayor Leger further stated that from his perspective $1.8 million was kind of an abstract number and there has
been a lot of water under the bridge since this was first proposed. He referred to Options of Probabl e Cost and
expressed the opinion that there is a lot of "wiggle room" as far as the costs. He added that if they do decide to move
forward with this project he thinks that they can bring the number down. He noted that two Councilmembers had
previously brought up the notion of value engineering and he has asked some professionals about the numbers and
believes that there are a lot of quantities that can be cut in half (benches, trashcans, etc.). He stated that they could also
cut the costs down significantly. He said that he has a target number in mind but he will let the discussion take place.
Councilmember Brown commented that he has struggled with this as well -- from "Let's not spend anything at all" to
"Let's spend $2 million." He stated that he has gone over the plans and reviewed the contract with J2 Design and spent a
great deal of time on this and studied the numbers very carefully. He added that he has taken into consideration what
they need and what they don't need and that is driven 100% by the input from the citizens and the e-mails that he has
received as well as some practical life experiences. He said that he truly believes that they need to be looking at doing
something with the Avenue because the fountains are a true mess -- they don't work and the Town spends a ton of
money working on them. He added that they either have to walk away from them or build something entirely new. He
further stated that this project is going to come in somewhere between $0 and $2 million and he believes that just as they
take care of their Fountain and the park around the Fountain they would miss a great opportunity if they didn't clean the
median out and utilize it. He agreed that some trees don't have to come down but some are dangerously ill, need
attention and probably need to be removed. He noted that the intention is to put more trees in than they remove.
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Councilmember Brown commented that after his entire study he truly believes that they need to be thinking in the range
of $1.1 million to a maximum of $1.3 million for this project and he believes they can build some nice $25,000 or
$30,000 fountains within that budgeted amount that will last for another forty years. He said he agrees with the
developer who said that doing this work will not bring anyone to Town to develop, but in the same breath putting their
best foot forward doesn't hurt anything and they can ask the developers to come and look at what they are doing. He
added that from day one he has said that they have to put their best foot forward in order to get the developers to come in
and help them. He stated that he looks at this as being a good move for the Town but he does not believe that they
should spend $2 million. He reiterated that he thinks they have a long ways to go before they can actually dial into what
they actually need to do.
Councilmember Yates advised that he is in commercial development as well and he goes for getting the maximum out of
the minimum. He stated that he ran this by some of his colleagues and he knows that they can value engineer this down
to around $1.3 for the total project. He said that being that they are not in the public sector when they sit up on the dais ,
he would like Mr. McGuire to walk him through the process (normally they would take the concept, put out a bid for an
architect and then they'd put that out or design engineer it -- design build).
Mr. McGuire explained that it is much easier to procure things privately than it is in the public world. He said that under
Arizona law the Town is not allowed to get price bids from architects/engineers and a handful of other listed
professionals -- they can only be procured through a qualification based selection. He added that the Town has to
proceed with a qualified based selection and then after the qualified parties are selected they negotiate the price. He
noted that this does not provide an abundance of flexibility and the only thing they are allowed to do according to the
law is if they don't reach a price they can then go back out again and go through the process. Mr. McGuire stated that
the process is very cumbersome but it is the law. He added that the design/build process is the same basic process -- the
selection process is qualifications based and then the contract goes through a pre-construction services portion that is
negotiated at a fixed price and during that fixed price portion (construction and design work) the guaranteed maximum
price is negotiated. He added that neither one of those processes allows them to go directly to a cost based bid for
design professionals. He said that they can go to a low bid process when they actually get to the construction portion.
Councilmember Yates commented that he would be very uncomfortable spending that amount of money. He stated that
he respects J2 Design and added that they have a very good reputation and do good work but said that there has to be
something they can do to make the numbers work because he, like Councilmember Brown, is uncomfortable spending
$2 million on something that he knows he can get out in the marketplace right now for maybe half of that. He reiterated
that there has to be a way to work this out and accomplish all of their goals.
Mayor Kavanagh advised that she agrees with her colleagues and said that once the project goes out to bid they can get
the price down if they decide to go ahead. She noted that the big difference between just doing the infrastructure
(Concept A) or going ahead with Concept B is if they just do Concept A (fixing the electrical and the other
infrastructure) they are still going to be spending over $1 million and then they have no ability to upgrade in the future.
She further stated that Concept B allows them to upgrade later on and add additional amenities. She said that she would
have concerns about keeping any trees that are a danger and cannot be made safe and added that she worries about
liability because arborists have told them that a certain number of trees are in danger of falling down and that is the
opinion of professionals so they would have to make sure if they decide not to take those trees down that they are made
safe. She reiterated that if someone did get hurt by a falling tree that would constitute a significant liability issue. She
commented on the palm trees and the older orange trees (trees that do not provide any kind of shade whatsoever) and
emphasized that the whole idea of doing this is to be able to provide shade -- people would be able to come out and sit
and be in the shade especially during the hot summer months. She said if there is anything they need in Arizona it is
shade and a lot of the trees do not provide that. She added that she doesn't have a problem keeping some of the large
trees, especially the big cottonwood that everybody likes so much, but they all must be designated safe or somehow
made safe.
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Mayor Kavanagh further stressed the importance of making any project they do Arizonans With Disabilities (ADA)
compliant. She noted that there is a large portion of the Town's population who cannot utilize the median -- they cannot
access it for the Farmer's Market or enjoy anything that is done on it because if they utilize walkers or scooters there is
no way for them to access it. She said that today the Farmer's Market opened and a friend of hers in a scooter came up
to her and told her she could only go to the booths that were located in the street area and she was grateful that there
were some booths in the street area so she could make some purchases. She stated that at certain points they are going to
have to comply with the law and that includes doing curb work that will allow the median to be ADA compliant. She
added that she would not like to spend over $1 million putting in infrastructure only to find out that it cannot be
upgraded later on. She said that she does agree with Vice Mayor Leger and the others who have spoken -- when this
does go out to bid it is going to come in a lot lower than what they are seeing now. She stated that at their last meeting
they talked about having this money come strictly from the Downtown Funds and not touch the CIP funds, which is
what she would like to see happen.
Councilmember Elkie commented that there appears to be a lot of questions ab out what the median is going to look like
and obviously what the work is going to cost and he wants to be sure that staff is clear on the direction. He said he
would like to know if they need additional clarification because he does not want to see this get bogged down. He
pointed out that the timing is an issue for the project as well because they don't want it to conflict with the fairs or other
activities that take place in the Downtown area.
Mr. Buchanan noted that the Council has discussed this iss ue in a Work Session and staff has been out talking and
meeting with all the other groups and organizations. He said that he is wondering whether the Council might like to
have their own planning session to discuss further with staff the concept because he keeps hearing about different
concerns, such as the trees and whether or not they should be doing the other infrastructure now. He questioned whether
the Council would be interested in taking some time and holding another Work Session or a planning session with staff
to go through these issues. He added that he understands that timing is an important issue.
Mayor Kavanagh asked if it would be possible at this time to express whether there is any consensus among the Council
as to whether they want to keep certain big trees or perhaps is it possible that they are in agreement on certain issues that
could be incorporated into the design and they could move forward.
Councilmember Elkie advised that he is in agreement with Vice Mayor Leger's comments as far as keeping as many
trees as possible as long as they do not pose a danger and also concurs with the Mayor's r emarks about liability issues
should trees that have been identified as possible hazards not be removed and in the future an accident occurs. He added
that comments have been made about the root structure on some of the larger trees and where they are gro wing. He said
that if they were to lay concrete or do any type of development they would want to make sure that those roots do not
cause damage in the future as well.
Mr. Mood addressed the Council and reported that the project will require approximately four months for design and the
public process that needs to be followed (bid out, advertise, etc.) will take approximately another two months. He said
that if the project was approved tonight, they would start the design right away and staff was looking at the project being
under construction by the end of April. He stated that grass would have to be planted in July and he said he doesn't
know if delaying that would result in having to use sod instead of seed but they could probably work around that. He
referred to a chart that showed black x marks on the trees that the arborists recommended be removed. He noted the
trees with the red x marks and advised that that is the location of the three palm trees where there is going to be a seating
area. He said that the ones with green are the ones that they are conceptually projecting will stay. He discussed tree #4,
a larger eucalyptus that has been recommended for removal, and said they could try and work around that but they
cannot guarantee its survival and stated that tree #17 at the Verde River is a pine tree and staff would look into working
around that as well but again they cannot guarantee survival and they do not know what the roots are doing underneath
the fountain right now. He noted that the plan has always been to work around as many trees as possible. He referred to
the large cottonwood tree and said that the roots go 20 to 30 feet up the mound and dives right underneath the fountain.
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He reiterated that obviously they would try to save as many trees as possible. He added that the Manager talked about
scheduling another Council design meeting and stated that he would have to discuss that with J2 Design. He informed
the Council that the company has gone above and beyond what was included in th e original conceptual contract so he
will see if they would be willing to come out and attend a meeting for that as well.
Mayor Kavanagh said what if they sent them off with a kind of consensus that the Council wants to go along and do this
and in hearing from everybody they want to save as many trees as possible and make sure that the remaining trees are
safe then they would be able to take a look at the design again. She asked if that would be final then and they wouldn't
be able to change anything after that or could they could go forward with a list of what the Council would like to see and
then they would come back (would it be final then and could do anything be done after that?).
Mr. Mood responded stated that if they move on to the next agenda ite m and the Council approved the contract with
stipulations obviously the designer would work towards that. He added that once they get into design there might be a
reason to make little tweaks here and there.
The Mayor commented then, at that point, this would go out to bid and they would get the lowest bid. She questioned
whether any changes could be made with whoever the project is contracted with and Mr. Mood explained that if the
project bid out at $1.5 million, that would have to come back to Council for their approval and once the Council
approves that construction contract, that is what the contractor goes by and any major changes would be in the form of
change orders.
Councilmember Hansen noted that when they first started talking about this project it was prior to the street bond last
November and she remembers saying back then that if the bond issue failed they might have to reconsider their priorities
and put streets ahead of the median project. She advised that she still feels that way. She add ed that since the bond
failed streets have been at the top of their priority list at both Retreats and budget discussions. She said that at the last
Work Session on the median project she suggested diverting the $1 million from the Downtown funds from the median
to Saguaro and Palisades in the Downtown area and although there was a question as to whether those funds could be
used for that purpose, it was determined that it would be an allowable use. She stated the opinion that the streets are
failing worse than the Avenue median and if some of the Downtown funds were used for portions of Saguaro and
Palisades, they could reduce the bond, which could gain voter support. She added that she is afraid that spending the
$1.8 million on the median could have a negative impact on getting a streets bond approved.
Councilmember Hansen noted that the staff report from the September meeting said that if th e project was cancelled or
postponed, staff could continue to make repairs to the fountains, electrical and irrigation systems as funding is available.
She said that perhaps some of the $800,000 capital could be used for this purpose and the accessibility issue could be
addressed by re-doing and re-routing the existing path using stabilized granite or pavers that would allow it to be ADA
compliant and greatly reduce costs. She further stated that the medians are functioning now and work quite well but
losing the large trees and losing the shade they provide would be detrimental. She added that she is not sure why the
direction of the plan is to remove the trees according to the plan rather than doing a plan around the existing trees. She
pointed out that J2 Design's report states that overall the trees in the median appear to be in fair condition and the shade
factor of any tree in the desert southwest makes them assets to the current landscape. She added that those two
statements alone make a good case to keep the trees because they are not "dead dead."
Councilmember Hansen commented that she does not recall the Swaback plan ever advocating for the removal of trees
on the Avenue but the conceptual plans did not get that specific. She said that they did emphasize the importance of the
shade that they have. She stated that redoing the medians won't save businesses -- getting people through the doors will
save businesses and people are not going to come to Town to see the median. She pointed out that even Professor
Brooks from ASU did not support the "If you build it they will come" concept. She said that as far as attracting
developers to develop the south side of the Avenue, she heard tonight that this isn't the case. She advised that with all of
the Town's many priorities she just does not see this one at the top of the list at this point in time.
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Vice Mayor Leger said that if they can get the costs down significantly funds (Downtown funds or capital funds) could
be used to enhance parts of the roads, specifically at Saguaro/Avenue of the Fountains.
Discussion ensued relative to a proposal that called for the reconfiguration of that intersection at a cost of $500,000 that
would be part of the bond and the Vice Mayor's comment that if they were able to cut the cost down significantly they
could use that money to do a portion of the work (cutting the bond cost down by that amount of money); the fact that the
Town paid to have a study done and provide options for that intersection; pavement management and the fact that Mr.
Buchanan is putting a financial model together and will talk to the Council about how they can do Saguaro and make
pavement management affordable; Vice Mayor Leger's statement that he does not feel comfortable going on to Agenda
Item #11 and voting on a contract for a scope of work that is undefined at this particular point in time; the Vice Mayor's
comment that either they would have to redesign this on the dais this evening or they could come back at a later date; the
cost sheet that was provided and ways in which those costs could be reduced (approximately $300,000 in savings).
Vice Mayor Leger reiterated that he does not feel comfortable moving on to Agenda Item #11 because the cost of the
design and engineering is close to $200,000 and is based on this concept. He added that he would feel more comfortable
if there was consensus among the Council as to redesigning the concept plan and then they could see where they are at
rather than doing it the opposite way. He said that he understands how J2 Design priced the various items but they have
benches priced at $1,600 apiece and there are a tremendous amount of them. He stated that he would question whether
they really need that amount of benches, especially ones that are that expensive. He added that he doesn't feel that the
proposal is appropriate and should be redesigned in some other way.
Councilmember Dickey referred to the Vice Mayor's previous comment about options for the intersection and said that
they had this discussion before and she would hope that if they went back to having another talk that someone would do
another presentation on roundabouts. She noted that they had a presentation a few years ago and then a few people in
Town had e-mailed her and they have expertise in this area and feel that a roundabout may be feasible at about
$400,000. She pointed out that there is such a wide range of roundabouts out there that it would behoove them to get
some new information about that. She questioned how they could decide what the amount would be for the concept
before getting more of a feel about the project itself.
In response to a question from Mayor Kavanagh, Mr. Mood advised that the $200,000 that they have been talking about
is made up of the design costs right now ($158,000) plush shade canopies ($7,500) if the Council wants to proceed in
that direction. He said that in addition there is approximately $34,000 for services during construction so the figure of
$200,000 is not just for design. He stated that if the Council wa nts to remove a number of benches or trash cans that is
not a problem; that is just the construction cost. He stressed that the proposal is just a conceptual plan because it has not
been designed yet so the company is making their best guess based on previous projects and a 10% contingency has
been added in. He pointed out that they don't know if prices are going to escalate and added that if they wanted to
remove the shade structures they would save the $7,500 on design and about $170,000 o n construction. He added that
the Council can at this point provide a list of items that they would like to see eliminated or reduced in number and the
company can go back and put costs to those. He said if they want to spend $1 million for design then they are talking
about $1.15 million to $1.2 million in construction. He noted that unless they know what they are actually designing it
is hard for them to put numbers to it because they are going to have to figure in hours, go to a structural engineer to
know whether they are doing two or three fountains, etc. He added that it can be done but it would take some time.
Councilmember Brown stated that he agrees with the entire conversation on the trees but part of what has them in such a
tailspin is the quantities and the grandness of the plan -- it is more than they need. He questioned the need for an $85,000
fountain and added that the design and the design concept are really close but the pricing and the quantities of materials
have it so far over (they are saying 20% on the costing but it may be more). He said that he supports scheduling a Work
Study Session and said it will provide J2 Design an opportunity to find out what the Council wants to accomplish. He
added that he does not believe that they can convey from the dais tonight what they are really wanting and the company
needs clearer direction. He stated that maybe they don't need another Work Study Session, perhaps two or three people
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could meet with them, he doesn't know, but he does know clearer direction is needed. He added that they haven't given
the architect a fair shot at giving them what they really need.
Councilmember Elkie said that he would be interested in hearing from the representatives of J2 Design who are present
in the audience.
Jeff Engelmann, a principle and owner of J2 Design, addressed the Council and said that taking things out like benches
and pads will not necessarily decrease the design a lot because they still have to lay those out and they may want to get
into that at some later point. He stated that they still have to plan for the future things that they may want to add at some
later point. He added that they may not do it right now but they don't want to shoot themselves in the foot by not
providing the conduit for the electrical and things like that. He stressed the importance of planning for the future as
well. He advised that what they tried to do with the concept was create a master plan -- a big picture look that provides a
vision of what could happen on the median based on the public input that was received and the discussions with the
various committees and organizations they met with.
Mr. Engelmann informed the Council that typically the next step for the company is to take the master plan and refine it
down into what they call construction documents and that is where they determine the actual square footage of concrete
that is going in, how much dirt will be moved, etc., and at that point they will be able to tie those numbers down a lot
tighter as they move forward in design. He explained that that gives more flexibility to the Town to come back and
provide input about things like "We've gone over our $1.3 budget and we need to remove perhaps a few more art pads or
a few more benches." He stated that until they get to that stage of having solid construction documents this conversation
could go on indefinitely. He added that they will have some things to bring forward to the Council and they do this with
a "stepped process." He noted that everyone will have a chance to look at the plans at the 30% and 60% mark and make
comments and then at that point they provide estimates as well. He said that at each of the stages of submittal estimates
are provided. He said when they get to 95% that is the final stage, and at each one of those steps, the design and
estimates get more refined, and there are open reviews by every committee and Town Council.
Mr. Engelmann advised that at the 50,000-foot level that they are at right now these are their best guesses until they have
formal surveys and some really hard construction documents that they can bring forward.
Mayor Kavanagh thanked Mr. Engelmann for his clarification of the process.
Councilmember Elkie commented that he appreciates J2 Design's comments. He said that he is all for doing the median
improvements and is certainly mindful of the roads, which are the Council's number one priority. He added that he
doesn't think they have to wait for one to do the other and he believes this adds value and accomplishes what they have
heard from Swaback and the others. He stated that they have learned that it is going to be quite some time before the
south side of the Avenue is actually developed and he thinks it is time for the Town to stop waiting for a developer to
come in and save/develop the Downtown area. He stressed the importance of controlling the things that they can control
and move forward with them. He added that based on everything they have heard tonight and on Mr. Mood's comments
as well about timing he really wants to move this along and do it in a fiscally responsible manner. He stated that he
hopes J2 Design is getting the message from the Council that they are very fiscally responsible, do not have a big budget
and are trying to get the most "bang for the buck." He said he would like to know whatever the Council can do, and
perhaps staff can give them some direction, to make this project move forward and complete the project as discussed.
Councilmember Yates advised that he doesn't want to get into a situation where they are negotiating from the dais but
there are some costs in the estimate that he thinks J2 Design could sharpen their pencils on. He discussed the proposed
design costs and said he believes the costs are a little off and asked the Town Attorney what the next step would be in
order to have that sit down or face-to-face or should it be two or three Councilmembers sitting down with the company.
He requested some advice on this matter.
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Mr. McGuire responded that the Council has the discretion to approve the contract as it stands or delay the contract
approval and discuss it later. He said that he would not recommend appointing an of ficial sub-committee because that
would be subject to the Open Meeting Law. He added that if there is a desire to postpone discussion on the actual
contract tonight, they do not need a date certain -- they can just continue it. He noted that there should be some
volunteers, less than a quorum of the Council, if they want to have some discussion about this contract. He asked them
to keep in mind that this is just the design contract.
Councilmember Elkie asked when they get to the actual item on the contract whether they could adjust the amount of the
contract. He stated that he heard from J2 Design that they do incremental billing and questioned whether they should
make a motion for an amount that may be less than what the proposed amount is.
Mr. McGuire replied that it would be better to actually sit down with the company and have actual discussions about the
scope and the fees prior to having the Council arrive at a number because frankly the scope is considerable. He added
that the better practice would be to discuss the scope with them to determine if adjustments can be made first and then
bring it back but have the "give and take" discussion first.
Councilmember Dickey commented that it appears that if this goes to November 1st that would still meet the timing.
Mayor Kavanagh said that it sounds like they are all interested in the project , in bringing the cost down and saving
whatever trees they can while maintaining safety and they want to have a Work Session or something to discuss how
they can bring the costs down. She asked if her summation was correct.
Councilmember Dickey stated that she thinks that she heard that there is sufficient time for Mr. McGuire or someone
else to go back and have discussions with J2 Design so that they can bring something back to the Council at the
November 1st meeting.
Mr. Mood informed the Council that his preference would be to sit down with J2 Design next week and said that he
agreed with Mr. McGuire in that the cost is going to be driven by the project's scope. He stated that he would like to go
back and talk to them about looking at reducing costs by reducing or eliminating certain items from the project (do they
need four fountains, do they want the shade structures, do they eliminate some seating area s, etc.). He added that he will
meet with J2 Design and then bring back a scope of what he thinks the Council is saying and then try again in two
weeks. He further stated that realistically to come back to a Work Study Session and do all that after that meeting would
delay the project and it would not be built next year.
Vice Mayor Leger stated that Councilmember Brown said something earlier that made a lot of sense and caught his
attention -- he said let's give them a design that is a little closer to what we want before they go off and do the design and
engineering. He added that Mr. Mood just said to let him figure out a different scope and added that they need to re -
scope it to give J2 Design the opportunity to design and engineer the project on what they want and the Council needs to
agree on the scope before they go to the next step. He reiterated that he is not comfortable with the scope of the project
and therefore he is not comfortable having someone do design and engineering work for this scope. He further stated
that he thinks they can do that without slowing the project down tremendously.
Councilmember Elkie said that one of the things they have to be aware of is they heard from J2 Design that they can
design it but they may not build part of it immediately, like the shade structures -- that may be something that they do in
the future. He added that there are some more permanent things that they are going to need to install to accommodate
future growth. He stated that the design costs are going to be the same whether they do it all now or do some now and
some later. He said that he thinks that what they are looking at as far as scope are the more permanent structures like
three versus four fountains, the seating and those types of things as op posed to the shade structures and they have to
make sure they are looking at that as opposed to everything because he thinks that would be a waste of time. He added
that he does want to leave opportunities for future Councils to expand the project if they have the funding to do so.
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Vice Mayor Leger stated that he has an $84,000 water feature before him that someone is going to design and engineer.
He said that he doesn't think they are looking at putting in an $84,000 water feature so why approve it and allow them to
go back and design that. He added that what he is seeing here is a fast start and a slow finish and he is suggesting a slow
start and a fast finish because it is going to keep going back and forth. He reiterated that they are talking about designing
an $84,000 fountain and suggested that they go back to the drawing board and design something different and a lot less
expensive. He stated that he cannot support this project the way it is scoped.
Mayor Kavanagh commented that Mr. Mood has stated that staff could take it and re-scope the project knowing how the
Council feels about all of these issues. She asked if the Vice Mayor would be comfortable with staff doing that and then
coming back to the Council.
Vice Mayor Leger responded that there are some things that maybe they could put on the table now to clarify for Mr.
Mood what should be discussed with J2 Design. He said that at the end of the day they could see how happy they are
with that.
Councilmember Brown expressed the opinion that they are doing J2 Design and the Town an injustice by not conducting
a meeting and coming to an agreement of some sort about the materials that they want to use and other things. He stated
that they should not be asking Mr. Mood to determine what materials are going to be used, how it is going to work, what
the end result is going to be -- that should be a Council-wide decision and if at all possible a joint decision to make J2
Design's job easier. He added that it would be beneficial to have them (J2 Design) at the meeting so everyone is on the
same page. He added that then when they bring the design back they will have something that they can work with.
Councilmember Yates asked how that would fall into play as far as scheduling a Work Session and Mr. McGuire replied
that State law requires a 24-hour notice to be given prior to a public meeting. He said that they do not have the luxury of
a whole lot of time.
Councilmember Dickey questioned what information they would obtain at a future meeting that they don't have now.
The Vice Mayor responded to Councilmember Dickey's question and stated that they could make motions and vote on
various items contained in the program; however, he noted that a Work Session won't help because they can't vote at that
type of meeting. He suggested that they schedule a Special Session.
Councilmember Dickey stated that she understands that but wants to know if the Vice Mayor is saying "Let's remove
stuff that we don't want as far as infrastructure" and noted that what the representative from J2 Design said is what they
decide to do should also be for the long term. She asked if they want the plan that does allow for the addition of future
amenities. She added that they liked concept “B” but think it is too much, so again, she asked what specifically will they
know at a future meeting that they don't know right now that they couldn't convey so they could get to some kind of an
agenda item on November 1st.
Councilmember Elkie asked if they heard that the cost of design is 10% of the estimated project and asked if that
number is based on what the anticipated work will be.
Mr. Mood explained that on a project like this it would be about 10% but J2 Design took the plan, Concept B, and
determined how many fountains, how many shade structures and went out and got consultants for electric and structural
areas and then calculated their man hours and hourly rates for what they think it would take for them to do the
construction documents for Concept B and that is how they arrived at the price. He added that right now they are going
off of the Swaback plan and what they heard from the different groups. He said that right now they don't know how big
the fountain is going to be or how much horsepower it will need as well as electrical and mecha nical and all of that will
get more defined when they start doing the design.
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Councilmember Elkie pointed out that they have the ability to adjust it as they go and Mayor Kavanagh added that they
will have a choice. She added that she agrees with Councilmember Dickey in that she doesn't know what else she could
learn because items like the better type of concrete to use is something that the experts determine.
Mayor Kavanagh said that she would like to move onto Agenda Item #11 to determine what the consensus is among the
Council.
AGENDA ITEM #11 - CONSIDERATION OF THE FIRST AMENDMENT TO THE PROFESSIONAL
SERVICES AGREEMENT C2012-133 WITH J2 ENGINEERING AND ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN, LLC,
FOR THE AVENUE MEDIAN IMPROVEMENTS, IN THE AMOUNT OF $199,873.00.
Mr. Buchanan advised that he had nothing to add at this time.
Ms. Bender stated that there were no citizens wishing to speak on this agenda item.
Councilmember Yates MOVED to direct staff to schedule a Work Study Session as soon as possible and that
representatives from J2 Design work with staff and attend the Session to not just go back over the scope but also to go
back over the bid to do the engineering and architectural drawings and Councilmember Brown SECONDED the
motion.
Mr. McGuire asked if that was a motion to continue with the additional direction and Councilmember Yates replied that
if that was the proper way in which to proceed then the answer is yes. Councilmember Brown concurred.
Councilmember Dickey commented that if this is being continued to a W ork Study Session then the Council would not
be voting on anything. Mr. McGuire advised that if the motion to continue is just indefinite and doesn't have a specific
date they don't have a public hearing to worry about for that purpose. He added that if the motion to continue is coupled
with the direction to schedule a Work Study Session or more likely a Special Session then that is what staff will try to do
before the next Council meeting.
Councilmember Yates again clarified that his motion is to continue this item and Councilmember Brown agreed.
Councilmember Elkie asked for clarification from Councilmember Yates that his motion to continue was for a w ork-
study or special session, and commented that he would be more in favor of continuing this item to a meeting where they
can vote and make decisions. Councilmember Yates said that he agrees with Councilmember Elkie and will add that as
an addendum to his motion. Councilmember Brown, the seconder of the motion, concurred.
Mr. McGuire advised that he believes staff is aware of the fact that a Special Session is what should be scheduled. A
roll call vote was taken with the following results:
Councilmember Brown Aye
Councilmember Yates Aye
Vice Mayor Leger Aye
Councilmember Elkie Aye
Councilmember Hansen Nay
Councilmember Dickey Aye
Mayor Kavanagh Aye
The motion CARRIED by majority vote (6-1) with Councilmember Hansen voting Nay.
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AGENDA ITEM #12 – COUNCIL DISCUSSION/DIRECTION TO THE TOWN MANAGER KEN
BUCHANAN.
Items listed below are related only to the propriety of (i) placing such items on a future agenda for action or (ii) directing
staff to conduct further research and report back to the council:
A. NONE.
AGENDA ITEM #13 – SUMMARY OF COUNCIL REQUESTS AND REPORT ON RECENT ACTIVITIES BY
THE TOWN MANAGER KEN BUCHANAN.
Mr. Buchanan stated that he will follow up on the Cox Cable item that was brought up during the Call to the Public
portion of the meeting.
AGENDA ITEM #13 – ADJOURNMENT.
Councilmember Yates MOVED that the Council adjourn the meeting and Councilmember Brown SECONDED the
motion, which CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY (7-0). The meeting adjourned at 8:20 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
By_____________________________
Mayor Linda M. Kavanagh
ATTEST AND
PREPARED BY:
____________________________
Bevelyn J. Bender, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Regular Session held by the
Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 18h day of October 2012. I further certify
that the meeting was duly called and that a quorum was present.
Dated this 1st day of November 2012.
_____________________________
Bevelyn J. Bender, Town Clerk