HomeMy WebLinkAbout2012.1201.TCSM.Minutesz:\council packets\2012\r11-15-12\121101splm.docx Page 1 of 11
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE SPECIAL SESSION OF THE
FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 1, 2012
* CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
Mayor Kavanagh called the meeting to order at 5:00 p.m. in the Town Hall Council Chambers.
* ROLL CALL
Present for roll call were the following members of the City Council: Mayor Kavanagh, Councilmember Yates, Vice
Mayor Leger, Councilmember Brown, Councilmember Hansen, and Councilmember Dickey. Town Manager Ken
Buchanan, Town Attorney Andrew McGuire, and Town Clerk Bevelyn J. Bender were also present.
Councilmember Elkie was absent from the meeting.
AGENDA ITEM #1 – DISCUSSION WITH POSSIBLE DIRECTION TO STAFF REGARDING THE AVENUE
OF THE FOUNTAINS MEDIAN IMPROVEMENT PROJECT.
Development Services Director Paul Mood addressed the Council relative to this agenda item and said that on October
18, 2012, staff proposed an Avenue of the Fountains Median Improvement Project along with a contract with J2 Design
for the design and construction of the project. He stated that the Council voted to bring this item back to a Special
Council Session so that additional discussion could take place and direction could be given to staff regarding the scope
of the project. He discussed all of the efforts that have been expe nded to reach out to groups, organizations and as many
people as possible regarding the proposed project and noted that this proposal is predicated on the Downtown Vision
Plan, which was approved by the Council in 2009 and is part of the General Plan. He highlighted pictures of Concept B
(both with and without the trees) contained in the packet material (in the packet on file in the office of the Town Clerk).
He discussed the proposed features included in Concept B including water features and shade structures and a 10-foot
walkway throughout the median that would contain conduit for future lighting.
Mr. Mood advised that based on Council direction at the last meeting, he had talked with J2 Design and they took
another look at the scope of work they had for their design and construction phase. He noted that there is the ability to
cut down the number of meetings/visits to Town and that would result in some cost savings. He added that they
discussed having the Town's Building & Engineering Inspectors perform a lot of the electrical and structural inspections
instead of utilizing the company's sub-contractors in an effort to also reduce costs. He informed the Council that after
speaking with J2 Design he would like the Council to know that they are on board and they would like to get a defined
scope, work with Mr. Mood on the number of meetings they would have to attend, and hopefully bring back to the
Council a new design contract. He said that the contract that was proposed at the last meeting had $165,000 for design
with roughly a $7,000 allowance for the shade columns and approximately $35,000 for their services during
design/construction. He said they are going to have to review shop drawings if there are any questions, they are going to
have to do as-built drawings, and will need to attend a few meetings with the contractor during construction. He stated
that the big unknown for the design team is what the Council wants the fountains to look like. He noted that based on
the meetings held with the various user groups, the input received and looking at the Downtown Vision Plan they put
together a concept but now they need the Council to refine it to reflect what it is they want. He indicated his willingness
to respond to any questions regarding the scope of the project.
Mayor Kavanagh thanked Mr. Mood for his presentation and asked Town Manager Ken Buchanan if he had anything to
add.
Mr. Buchanan stated that as they saw at the last meeting, there are a number of issues that were brought up by in dividual
Councilmembers. He asked the Council how they would like to proceed with this issue and added that if they want to
modify Option B, then they need to discuss and address the various issues.
Boyce Baldwin, President of the Fountain Hills Cultural & Civic Association (FHCCA), addressed the Council and
stated his support and the support of the FHCCA for the Plan B median project. He said that he knows that the Council
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is here this evening to discuss options and he is certain that they will work out a solution that will bring this project in
under the estimated figure. He stated that the basic plan certainly has to be done, the irrigation, electrical and many
existing features are 40 years old. He questioned why they would not work on enhancing and updating the median at the
same time in an effort to make the median a showcase for now and the future. He agreed that the median will not bring
development but said that the median and the Avenue of the Fountains is the heart of Fountain Hills, the gathering place,
and the median needs work. He added that trees will have to be removed but approximately 30 trees will be replaced by
new and healthier trees. He stressed the importance of removing trees that are potentially hazardous. He noted that the
Greening of Downtown Committee has already gone on record as wanting to partner with the Town to raise funds to
help with the trees. He said that he supports repaving Saguaro but said that the Avenue als o needs to be taken care of.
He expressed the opinion that the median project will continue to draw the community together for functions and
celebrations for years to come and again stated support for Plan B.
Jenny Willigrod, a member of the Greening of Downtown Committee, addressed the Council and expressed the
Committee's support for the upgraded median (Plan B). She noted that the Committee stands ready to help and read a
letter from a citizen that was published in the newspaper urging the Council to work towards making the Town a
destination spot. She urged the Council to recognize the importance of this project and said there is no reason why
Fountain Hills cannot become a destination spot. She added that the project also represents an economic dec ision to
help bring businesses to Town. She said that if the Town cannot afford to pay for the entire upgraded project a t this time,
she would request that they do not simply put a band-aid on the Avenue and instead create a plan that can be
implemented over the course of a few years and keep the big picture in mind.
Carol Ellithorpe, the owner of a Homeowners' Association company located on Avenue of the Fountains, addressed the
Council and said she finds it hard to believe that the Town wants to spend $2 million to turn the median into a park. She
stated that the only people who think that the median is a park are the dog owners who let their dogs do their business in
the grass. She expressed the opinion that the median is not a park, an event center or a tourist destination. She suggested
that someone sit and watch the activity that goes on along the median and the Avenue. She added that the Community
Center is the Town's event center and no one can even use that when a membership organization like the Chamber uses
the street as their event center. She said that since their main event that is held there that they should let the Chamber
pay for turning it into a park. She stated that although new trees will be planted to replace the ones that will be removed,
it will be many years before they can provide the type of shade that the existing trees provide. She noted that they
already have a beautiful park around the Fountain and it costs a lot of money to maintain that. She suggested that they
spend some money to maintain the existing infrastructure on the median and believes that this work can be done
relatively inexpensively.
Michael Miller addressed the Council and said they are talking about spending approximately $2 million on this project,
and it might be less but they are talking about a three-acre median or $135 a square yard. He stated that the Town has a
bond issue coming up for the streets and this is a necessity while the median project is something that would be nice to
do. He added that he believes that this will be the "nail in the coffin" for the bond issue. He noted that they didn't do
well with a bond issue the last time around and he knows it will be rough this time and the perception is going to be that
the Town is going to spend a lot of money on something nice rather than on something necessary and everyone is going
to be assessed to pay for it. He said that the median is mature and needs a little maintenance but does not need to be
replaced and spoke against putting in more steel and concrete in Fountain Hills. He urged the Council to prioritize and
identify what is really important and that is streets. He stated that they should focus on the streets and not be distracted
by something that is going to further jeopardize ever getting the streets done.
Ms. Bender advised that she received an additional speaker card.
Jim Theiring addressed the Council and expressed the opinion that Plan B is totally unnecessary and said that the
fountains are leaking a lot of water and he believes that would be a fairly easy repair to make. He noted that the trees
referred to in the proposal are small, ornamental trees growing in gravel and they are not posing any hazard or risk. He
added that as far as spending all this money on a major overhaul, they should wait until the south side of the boulevard is
sold and developed and then they will have the extra income from development fees to analyze what they want to do at
that time.
Sandi Thompson, Chairman of the Fountain Hills Public Art Committee, addressed the Council and said she represents
the Public Art Committee, which has donated a lot of money in order to purchase art and promote the Town. She stated
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that they want people to come to this Town, spend their dollars and help their businesses and to her Plan B is the way to
do that. She added that people come to Town, look at the Fountain, perhaps visit a restaurant and then they leave. She
said that if they have a nice median that is right across the street and was people friendly, the businesses would do much
better because it would bring people to this Town. She commented that when she moved here 16 years ago, she was told
that the south side of the Avenue would be developed and that hasn't happened yet. She stated the opinion that if the y
wait for that to develop it will probably be another 20 years and stressed the importance of doing something to the
median to make people realize that Fountain Hills does have a downtown. She said that maybe people will buy that land
and develop it but right now there is nothing there to make them want to do that. She added that they need people and
families to move to Fountain Hills and said she strongly supports Plan B.
Mayor Kavanagh thanked all of the speakers for their comments and noted that they have to decide how they want to
break this down to address it.
Councilmember Yates advised that he was the one who made a motion at the last meeting to have this extra time in order
to do more research. He said that the main goal was to look at this and prioritize what their needs are. He agreed that the
Halloween event on the median was wonderful but expressed the opinion that it could have been so much more. He
stated that this is "big picture stuff" and he believes their whole goal here is to work with the designers and come up
with something that fits and maximize the results. He added that he doesn't think that they will spend anywhere close to
$2 million but at the end of this when they do spend money and fix the infrastructure he hopes everyone looks at it and
says, "It looks as though they spent $5 million."
Mayor Kavanagh asked if the Council wanted to break this down and do it piecemeal, go item by item, or exactly how
would they like to proceed.
Councilmember Brown suggested they address the contract and then go through the different line items. He added that
they should open up the discussion and talk about quantities, possible solutions and savings and do it in an orderly
manner.
Councilmember Hansen stated that one thing seems to be missing is the fact that they jumped into a pretty major
overhaul without considering the possibility of using more of what is already there and how that could be enhanced. She
said that she wishes they had that to consider as well. She said that the south part is a nice place to be -- there are mature
trees and they make such a difference. She added that when they look at the renderings of the plan she would like to
know how many years it will take for the trees to get as large as they appear in the renderings. She stated that if they
look at the Community Center, which was built around 2000, that was twelve years ago and the trees out there do not
provide a whole lot of shade. She commented that as she said at the last meeting she believes the timing of this is really
sensitive and they have held their Retreats and never once did the median appear on the short list of their priorities so
she is still kind of stymied about how it ended up being on the front burner instead of some of the other priorities. She
noted that she would consider looking at something that included enhancing the pathway, removing the gravel, etc. and
said that they talked about the roots and she believes there are roots there today that are from trees that have already
been blown over so they could be removed. She added that they could meander the path around what is already there
and concentrate on what they already have instead of leveling everything.
Vice Mayor Leger commented that Councilmember Brown suggested that they systematically walk through the project
and he thinks that the intention at the last meeting was to review the scope of the project and possibly redesign that
scope and peck away at the costs. He added that if they decide to move forward with this project there is probably a
little wiggle room at the design stage and plenty of room when they go out to bid on Plan B if they decide to move
forward with this project. He stated that he concurs with Councilmember Brown's recommendation and said he hopes
he will lead them through that project. He further stated that before they do that he would like to go back to something
that Mr. Mood said. Mr. Mood had stated that after the last meeting he had an opportunity to go back and talk to the
representatives of J2 Design and part of that discussion was making some changes or making some adjustments to the
project itself. He noted that they know that the design/engineering costs came in at around $199,000 and that is wher e
they started to get hung up. He asked Mr. Mood if there is the possibility of making adjustments to how they are going
to manage the process and does he have a number.
Mr. Mood replied that he does not have a hard number and when he spoke with J2 they j ust spoke in generalities. He
said that they really need to go back and look at what the scope is so they can put their man hours to it (how many
meetings will there be during the design phase, what kind of services the Town wants during construction, etc .). He
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added that he doesn't want to just throw a number out but the big unknown is the fountain s and pictures of possible
fountains were passed around earlier that he saw tonight for the first time. He noted that that would bring the cost down
quite a bit and if they can reduce some of the scope and get some clear definition on the fountains that would be a great
help. He advised that ones he saw in the pictures are more like pools with updated features in the center and there is not
a lot of structural work attached to them. He added that they maybe can get the design with the construction phase
services down to the $150,000 range (approximately).
Councilmember Dickey stated that she hopes they don't go through this and say not this shade structure, the other and
not this fountain the other because she doesn't want to do this too severely right now -- they don't want to self limit and
not look at the big picture.
Mayor Kavanagh agreed with Councilmember Dickey's comments and said she believes they are talking about providing
a general scope and then letting them go with it. She added that since the fountains seem to be a major expense she
would like to know if the Council would like to start there.
Councilmember Brown stated yes and said that he had some pictures printed up just today to show what a $10,000
fountain or a $50,000 fountain might look like because the big question was what will $50,000, $60,000 or $70,000 buy
them. He stated that he thought that maybe some existing fountains with some near pricing on them would be of some
help.
Mayor Kavanagh commented that the pictures are really a very helpful because she thinks that one of their biggest
problems last time was deciding whether they wanted to build such an expensive fountain and if not what would the less
expensive ones look like. She noted that all of the fountains depicted in the pictures are a lot less expensive than
$85,000 and asked if they all pretty much agree that they would like to go down on the cost of the fountain since, as Mr.
Mood said, that would bring down the overall cost. She said that there are some nice ones for $40,000 and perhaps they
could say that they want to cut the cost of the fountain in half. She asked Councilmember Brown or Councilmember
Yates to advise whether that would be reasonable.
Councilmember Brown stated that if they could get back down to the $40,000 range ($140,000 to $160,000 for all four
fountains) that would buy four pretty nice fountains.
Mayor Kavanagh asked if they all agreed on that and asked if anyone wanted to make a motion on that or should they
just move ahead knowing that that is the direction.
Mr. McGuire advised that when they get towards the end they should summarize all of the items and bring forth a
motion at that time.
The Mayor said that there is a consensus that the Council is going with what Councilmember Brown stated and they now
have an idea of what they can get for that money.
Mayor Kavanagh suggested that they move on to shade structures and Councilmember Brown stated that he believes
that is an expense that they could address in the future. He suggested that they do the layout for future electric al and
plumbing work and then they could lay out their shade structures around the existing plumbing so they could come in
and do that later, which would delete the engineering costs and the cost of the shade structures themselves. He added
that in the future if they could afford it and they needed it they could come back and put them in.
Mayor Kavanagh asked if they would need to put in any kind of infrastructure at this time -- they would just leave a
placeholder on the concept plan where they would have the shade structures and Councilmember Brown concurred.
Vice Mayor Leger requested that someone from J2 Design approach the podium and stated that he concurs with
Councilmember Brown's observation when they look at the cost of the shade structures ($177,000 plus design work, so
almost $200,000). He added that by reducing the cost of the fountains they are probably looking at $400,000 in reduced
costs and he thinks that that figure could go down further. He commented that he understands the intent of shade
structures and what he has often seen in medians and parks where there is a small plaza was tree wells being used as an
integral part of that environment. He asked whether J2 Design had considered doing anything like that. He said he
believes that would provide shade in the hardscape areas.
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A representative from J2 Design addressed the Council and advised that the shade structures were something that came
out of the public involvement process (several of the groups indicated support for shade structures). He stated that they
could eliminate the shade structures and add more trees.
Vice Mayor Leger commented that in essence J2 Design could go back and remove the shade structures and design
some tree wells and that would at least provide some shade for the hardscape areas.
Councilmember Dickey noted that the cost for all of the shade structures would be $200,000 including the design cost
and questioned whether they could keep some of the shade structures in and add some tree wells in an effort to have a
mix of shade options.
Councilmember Yates indicated that he supports what Councilmember Dickey said and instead of just scratching this off
as a line item they could design something for less money. He added that he is of the mind that they should try to get
more for less and stated that there are plenty of products and materials out there that would provide the same effect
without spending the money. He added that he is for keeping the concept but designing it down.
Councilmember Brown advised that he is just making recommendations and Councilmember Yates replied that he is
aware of that but this idea came from the groups that provided input so he doesn't think they should completely scratch it
but rather find a way to get it done and look really nice but at a cheaper cost
Mayor Kavanagh stated that she agrees with Councilmembers Dickey and Yates and said that she would like some sort
of shade in that area because they are talking about very hot summers and if Councilmember Yates, with his experience
in this area, believes that they could probably get this done cheaper she would rather keep this in the scope but look at
doing something that has a lesser cost attached to it.
Councilmember Brown said that when they bid the shade structures out he would prefer to have the companies do their
own engineering. He reported that for the four of five that he has purchased he bought the total package and the
engineering was quite reasonable -- buy them as a complete package.
Mayor Kavanagh suggested that they move on and discuss the pathway and commented that she knows they have talked
about a concrete pathway and then Councilmember Brown had suggested pavers so she would like the Council to
discuss the cost of that portion of the project and how they could possibly save some money.
Councilmember Brown advised that he talked with two of the largest paving companies in Phoenix and they are saying
$3.15 to $3.60 a foot and he has also been approached by people who said that if they push a baby stroller down a paver
pathway it will shake the carriage. He added that he would like to point out that Tempe Marketplace and Santan
Village, the two newest and largest shopping centers in this part of the country, used pavers on all of their sidewalks. He
pointed out that pavers can be repaired without jack hammering and hauling out heavy concrete. He said that this is a
good way to go as far as economics; they are low maintenance as well and provide a nice attractive look. He referred to
the entrance off of La Montana where pavers were used and stated the opinion that it is a very attractive look and could
be continued right on down the sidewalk. He noted that the savings would be significant.
Mayor Kavanagh asked if anyone had comments to make about using pavers instead of concrete.
Councilmember Yates agreed that pavers would certainly be easier and he has worked with both concrete and pavers.
Councilmember Brown added that using pavers also provides them the opportunity to come back and mix and match,
add seating areas or different areas if they opt not to do all of the seating areas because the pavers can always be
matched or blended.
The Mayor noted that pavers were used in the Centennial Circle and said that they can easily be removed in small
sections so if the infrastructure is in that would be great. She suggested that they move on and discuss trees at this time.
She advised that right now there are certain trees that an arborist has advised must be removed -- just the ones that pose
an absolute danger. She said that not only is she worried that someone could get injured or worse if the trees fell, she is
also concerned about liability issues associated with those trees. She pointed out that now that they have been advised
that the trees should be removed if that action is not taken there is a huge liability issue. She added that the last time
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they discussed this they said that some trees such as the orange, pine and palm trees do not provide shade and the
Council would rather replace them with native trees that will provide shade. She noted that although they will be
starting off small they will grow. She said that as far as some of the other trees she would like to hear comments from
the rest of the Council.
Councilmember Hansen stated that the palm trees on the west end kind of go along with the palm trees along the Avenue
and as far as the trees that pose an absolute danger they still need to reconcile the part of the report that said by and lar ge
the trees are in good condition. She indicated that she would like to take a closer look at that.
In response to a request from the Mayor, Mr. Mood said that they would save as many of the large trees as they can and
could shift the design a little bit in an effort to try and miss trees. He added that the majority of the trees do appear on
the arborist's report and are also in conflict with the concept plan and the majority of them are located where the two
mounds are. He further stated that flattening out the two mounds will provide a lot more usable space and reiterated that
that is where a majority of the trees are. He said that they had one large eucalyptus that the arborist recommended be
removed and added that there are two large ones right outside that are recommended for removal and looking at that
they can shift some things around it and try to save the tree but they cannot guarantee its survival. He also discussed the
palm trees on the west end and advised that that is a decision that has to be made because if they save the palm trees they
cannot do the paver seating area. He referred to the mound area and explained that that would make a large flat area for
festivals and special events.
Councilmember Yates commented that since they are replacing the trees three to one, even if the cost is one to three
times more couldn't they make sure that every third tree they use is a more mature or faster-growing tree so they can see
some significant growth. He added that he is hearing that everyone likes mature trees so they should go that way and
see how it can be accomplished within the budget.
Mr. Mood informed that the Council that the current plan calls for over 100 replacement trees and they will be 24 -inch
box trees. He said they could go with half as many 36-inch box trees or a third as many 49-inch box trees. He stated
that they would look at trees that are on the approved list and the landscape architect is going to look at different species
in an effort to provide a variety and different shades of color. He added that they can certainly look at the different
growth rates and they will be provided proper deep-root irrigation rather than surface irrigation and in four to five years
they should see quite a bit of growth, particularly with 48-inch box trees. He further stated that they can look at the trees
again and noted that in order to do that they would have to bring an arborist back in again and there will be a cost
associated with that.
Councilmember Dickey commented that the last time the Council discussed this she believes they said that the trees that
would interfere with the plan (and staff would do what they could to save as many as possible) and the trees that have
been deemed hazardous would be removed. She pointed out that the Greening Committee and the FHCCA have offered
their assistance and perhaps they could get more trees with their help. She noted that one of the speakers earlier in the
meeting said that nobody uses the median and the Council is trying to turn that around. She read a proverb that went
along with what she believes the Council is trying to do -- and that is look ahead. She agreed that they should use more
mature trees and go beyond what they originally discussed.
Councilmember Hansen expressed the opinion that the mounds are aesthetically pleasing and inviting. She added that
when they say that flattening them will provide more seating area she believes they have to keep in mind the scope of
what they are talking about. She pointed out that the largest open area is where they have held events since 1990 and
that has a lot of potential for event space. She said that since it is a median and surrounded on two sides by a street, the y
are inviting people to cross the street so anytime they are going to have a larger event they will end up having to close
the street like they did yesterday for the Halloween event to make it a safe place to be. She stated that they have to find
that fine line -- are they going to attract more large events so the streets will be closed more often because typically the
merchants do not like to have the streets closed off. She emphasized that this is not a plaza area or a courthouse square,
it is a relatively narrow median and is surrounded by streets and people are going to be crossing those streets and going
in-between cars so they also have to take liability into consideration in this case.
Mr. Buchanan commented that Councilmember Hansen brought up the mounds and asked if that is an i ssue that should
be talked about some more because that is where a majority of the trees are located (45 trees total and they are looking at
removing 21 of them and a majority of those are on the mounds).
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Mayor Kavanagh advised that she likes the mounds but the whole idea is to create a place where they can have some sort
of entertainment with seating. She pointed out that they do have a park with lots of mounds and reiterated that they are
trying to establish more of an open space where residents can gat her. She added that this is not just for tourists coming
into Town; this is for Town residents as well. She discussed the Halloween event and said that if they had had more
seating and more lighting she believes the people would have stayed longer. She noted that the restaurants did really
well and said that more events in this area are certainly helping the businesses which have been asking for more events.
She reiterated that the business community wants more events because they bring people into the downtown area and
they stay and spend money. She said that they do need a plaza, they do need a Town Center and there is no gathering
area so while the mounds are nice to look at, she believes they are trying to make the median more like a plaza and a
gathering area and she is willing to take the mounds down in order to accomplish that.
Councilmember Brown concurred with the Mayor's remarks.
In response to a question from Councilmember Yates, Mr. Mood stated that what the Council is doing right now is
providing a lot of direction and that is good. He further advised that obviously when they go through design they are
going to look at protective materials, methods of construction, etc. in an effort to keep the project as cost effective as
possible. He advised that the other areas he would like to hear discussed include the public art areas and the vine
screens. He stated the opinion that the Council has done a really good job giving staff ways to reduce the costs and
asked whether Council would like staff to change the lighting and have it in the package as a bid alternate (the contractor
would bid the lighting as a separate package). He said let's say the median comes in at $1.2 or $1.3 million and the
lighting is another $300,000 on top of that, that would give the Council an opportunity to discuss whether or not they
want to do the lighting but they have a number for the future design that is complete and fairly easy to be repackaged for
a future bid. He noted that it will add a little bit to the design cost but it will also provide flexibility.
Councilmember Yates commented that after being at the event yesterday they definitely need a lighting plan and stated
for the record that the $300,000 figure is just an arbitrary number.
Mayor Kavanagh stated that she thinks that what Mr. Mood suggested is very wise because if they can't do it now they
can do it in the future. She added that no one wants to design a project that later on they will be just stuck with and not
able to add on to if that is the desire.
Mr. Mood advised that it can be set up to make sure that the space is available and the conduits and they will do that at a
minimum and they can also add in the lighting design. He pointed out that that brings other issues up -- he is hearing
that they want pathway lights on either side of the median, not low bollard lights. He added that they want a little more
light for events and possibly some lighting in some of the larger areas.
Councilmember Yates stated that they want to keep with the theme of designing a lighting system that is effective as far
as lighting but also cost effective (not a major design or product challenge).
Mr. Mood noted that they do have lighting ordinances that they will have to keep in mind as well and added that maybe
the lights will not be on all the time -- the system could be set up with some flexibility.
Councilmember Brown said that as far as the electric, he would also like to have the engineers look at possibly utilizing
the existing 400 amp on the west end (bring in one simple system both down the east median and up the west median) as
opposed to eliminating all of the electricity. He added that the 400 amp service seems to be in good shape and he would
like to see if they could do that instead of completely eliminating it.
Mr. Mood advised that he did talk to the electrical engineer today and said that when they get into the design they can
look at that. He stated that they are fairly certain that the existing electrical on the west median is good, it is th e east
median that is a problem and it looks like there is capacity in the transformer by the Chase Bank and they could run a
single line down to the east median and pick it up there.
Councilmember Dickey noted that Councilmember Elkie had some questions and input he wanted to provide about
lights and stressed the importance of contacting him to obtain that information.
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Mayor Kavanagh stated that the Council will now discuss the public art areas and said she believes they want to keep
them and do it the same way they have been doing it -- do the areas as much as possible but keep it inexpensive because
it is a benefit to let those public areas for art remain.
Mr. Mood informed the Council that some cost savings previously discussed include leaving a brick paver area in place
and, just like Centennial Circle, when the art becomes available they can easily remove the brick pavers, put the
foundations in and put the pieces of art in place. He added that they would have to set it up with conduit for any lighting
that may be needed. He further stated that they could put in a bench -- possibly find someone who will donate a bench.
He noted that right now the high costs are associated with the built-in seating and the architectural features so staff
would like direction as to whether the Council wants to build the seating now or leave it an area that can be added onto
in the future.
Councilmember Yates commented that a lot of people were sitting on the north end of the median last night and he was
wondering if they could just use the existing style and get free-standing benches that match so it will flow better instead
of designing a whole built-in feature.
Mr. Mood referred to a slide that depicted a built-in area and said that the future piece of art would go in the center area.
He added that he is hearing that the Council likes the area and the art idea but they do not want to spend the time, energy
and money to design a special seating area when they can have additional seating areas that will match what already
exists. He noted that they could possibly get different groups to donate benches and plaques could be made and placed
on them. He stated that staff can do that if that is the direction of the Council.
Mayor Kavanagh agreed that they might be able to obtain donated benches and said that would be great for the area and
a lot less expensive. She pointed out that the Public Art Committee often gets people to donate benches as well as art
pieces. She advised that it is the consensus of the Council to proceed as discussed above.
The Mayor advised that they will move on and discuss vine screens and, with confirmation from the members of the
Council, stated that they are attractive and will remain in the plan.
Councilmember Yates suggested staff make sure that the material selected is durable but not made out of gold or silver.
Mayor Kavanagh said that she believes the Council has addressed almost everything and Mr. Mood concurred.
Vice Mayor Leger stated that he previously asked Mr. Mood whether they could cut down on some costs and he
answered that there was not a lot of room on the construction side but on the quantity side they may be able to do that.
He said that he believes there is significant savings they can look at in terms of the numb er of tables, concrete planters,
etc. He added that as they conceptualize the plan he would like staff to pull back on a few of those so that the Council
can see how that plays out. He further stated that Mr. Mood had recommended something about the crosswalks (not
using stamped asphalt). He asked Mr. Mood to restate his recommendation and advise whether that would be a cost
savings.
Mr. Mood replied that professionally speaking he would look at upgrading the crosswalks to some type of stamped
asphalt or architectural feature when they eventually redo the streets.
The Vice Mayor asked whether pavers would be a consideration and Mr. Mood stated that if they raise something across
the whole road that might lead to drainage issues.
Councilmember Brown commented that he has no idea of what it would cost to stamp or stain asphalt and Mr. Mood
reported that right now they have an estimate for roughly 6,500 square feet of crosswalks and they used a high-level
estimate of $6.50 a square foot for everything being done so the cost would be in the low $40,000 range. He said they
would just add signage and some striping and that would probably cost a few thousand dollars.
Mayor Kavanagh said that they need seating -- that was demonstrated just last night with all of the people that showed
up. She said she would like to see the bottom line on all the benches and tables with all of the changes being made. She
added that she would not like to cut down on the seating if they do not have to.
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Mr. Mood advised that right now they have it set up where staff is going to take the Council's direction from tonight and
if they approve come back with a contract and if that is approved they will go through design (go to the 45% design
level and give the documents to the Town and they are going to look at it for Code compliance and constructability). He
said that they could have the Council look at the number of benches and different things. He added that he thinks from
the comments of the Council tonight that the Council really wants staff to have another Council meeting or Work
Session to look at what the fountains are going to be, etc. He stated that before they get too far into the design he wants
to make sure that they are all on the same page. He further stated that he 's got direction but he would like to have
another concept drawing done and brought back just to verify that it captures the direction of the Council.
Vice Mayor Leger said absolutely and added that that is the Council's expectation and other members of t he Council
concurred.
Mr. Mood commented that is what he thought but informed the Council that doing that is going to add some additional
cost because they are going to have to prepare exhibits and come back to Town for another meeting. He noted that it
won't be a lot of money but they are slowly adding little costs on here and there.
Vice Mayor Leger stated that they should keep it simple and said that they don't have to come to Fountain Hills -- Mr.
Mood could do the presentation. He noted that staff should be involved as much as possible in this and he would like to
see that happen in terms of managing the project management.
Mr. Mood informed the Council that he would be happy to do that and J2 Design will prepare the renderings.
Councilmember Yates asked if they need to do a "not to exceed" or something along those lines and Mr. McGuire
advised that the best way for everyone to know whether or not it is an acceptable amount is to wait until after all the
input and numbers are put together. He added that staff could not even give a best guess at this point in time.
Councilmember Yates said that the Council is not even giving direction to go ahead and spend money they are going to
give an estimate and Mr. Mood stated that they will build it into the contract that they are going to bring back if that is
the direction and Councilmember Yates said that it is.
Mayor Kavanagh requested that Mr. Buchanan provide a brief summary and Mr. Mood suggested that it would be better
if he provided the summary because he still has some unknowns.
Mr. Mood stated that they are going to look at four fountains in the $30,000 to $40,000 range for each and added that the
big question he has is shade structures -- setting them up for the future, doing one now, doing two now but having it bid
out to the contractor (it will be in their bid to design and build it and room would be left for it ). Mr. Mood asked for
more clarification on this.
Councilmember Brown said that he believes they should design it and the engineeri ng -- whoever designs it will have
the engineering inclusive in their proposal. He added that he thinks it would be wrong for an architect to do all the
design and then have someone else put in the shade structures because that would take away from the overall project.
Mr. Mood stated that he is envisioning that what they would end up with is a plaza with a fountain and somewhere in
there they are going to have three or four poles with a shade sail and they can go into that in the contract.
Mayor Kavanagh commented that they talked about putting in some shade structures and not eliminating all of them and
Mr. Mood asked if the Council wants them on both center features or only on one and they could do tree wells with trees
on the other one. He added that there are endless possibilities.
Councilmember Yates advised that he remembers the discussion and it was based on the concept plan and input from the
residents that they want shade structures so the Council is saying let's not spend $160,000, let's figure something
between zero and $160,000 to get these things. He noted that this is the concept design and then hopefully the
contractor will include the engineering with their product. He asked whether the issue has been clarified.
Mr. Mood responded that they are going to put shade structures at both center plazas (staff will figure it out) and the
Mayor agreed.
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Mr. Mood further stated that as far as the pathway right now they are looking at pavers and added that during design this
will be researched further.
Mr. Mood advised that as far as the trees, they are going to try and save as many of the large ones as possible and they
are already doing that. He said that they are not going to look at using all 100 24 -inch box trees and instead they will
look at doing a mixture and try to get some good sized trees in there.
Mr. Mood added that they will remove the mound areas and maybe then they will have to reconstruct those fountains.
He stated that they would probably lose the trees anyway.
Mr. Mood said that they are going to do a separate design bid for a lighting package.
Mr. Mood stated that the public art areas will be left as open brick paver areas that in the future when public art comes in
it can be placed in those areas with minor work needed.
Mr. Mood noted that they are keeping the vine screens and they are only signing and striping the crosswalks (no
stamping). Mr. Mood suggested that the Council would like the architect to come to Fountain Hills for another Work
Study or Special meeting and asked which the Council would prefer.
Mayor Kavanagh replied that a Special Session should be scheduled for that purpose so that the Council can vote on it.
She added that she thought they had discussed having Mr. Mood present it and he said she was correct, he would do it.
Mr. Mood asked if the Council wanted to have a few Councilmembers be more intimately involved during the design
process and the Mayor said that she wouldn't have any problem with having Councilmembers Yates and Brown
involved. (Both Councilmembers indicated their willingness to serve in this capacity.)
Mr. Mood informed the Council that right now they have it shown as a central mechanical enclosure on each median and
asked if the Council wanted to go with that or go with pumps and filters at each fountain. He advised that it is hard to
hide those. It was the consensus of the Council that they stay with the central mechanical enclosure.
Councilmember Hansen asked if the enclosure would cost more and Mr. Mood stated that it will. He added that if they
don't do that they are going to have pumps and filters at every fountain and they are also going to have panels exposed
again like they are now.
Councilmember Brown commented that they wouldn't have to be exposed, they could be inside an enclosure -- he said
he is talking about doing four small enclosures. He stated that right now they've got enough dollars to do 731 feet of
enclosures and that is a lot of enclosures if his calculations are correct. He advised that if he had his say he would like to
keep the pumps a little closer to the fountains and run the electrical system to them as opposed to running them a longer
distance.
Mr. Mood advised that this is something that could be hashed out during design. The Mayor asked if they needed a
motion, or has staff has received direction. Mr. Buchanan suggested that the Council make a motion to direct staff to
follow the direction that was provided at the meeting.
Councilmember Brown MOVED to direct staff to proceed based on the direction provided by the Council.
At this point a representative from J2 Design made comments from the audience without the use of a microphone . He
asked if the Council had a maximum cost figure/range in mind and said it would make the process a whole lot easier.
Councilmember Brown said that the Council would like to wind up in the $1.1 million to $1.3 million maximum cost
range. Mr. Mood asked if that range included design costs and Councilmember Brown it is possible and can be done.
Vice Mayor Leger SECONDED the motion.
The motion CARRIED BY MAJORITY VOTE of those present (5-1) with Councilmember Hansen voting Nay and
Councilmember Elkie absent.
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Vice Mayor Leger commented that they have had people come before the Council and hit them hard about spending
money in a poor economic time. He said that he would like to remind the public once again that the Council cut their
General Fund budget from $16 million down to $12 million. He added that they have spent very little money over the
last four years and have been fiscally conservative. He added that the time is now to start looking at revitalizing their
community. He further stated that the money that they will be spending on this project is from a dedicated fund and
could not be used to fix the roads. He said that they can accomplish pavement management, repave Saguaro and
revitalize their Avenue and he thinks the time to start is now. He noted that they are not "Stealing from Peter to pay
Paul" with respect to the road bond and clarified for the record that road bond is a separate issue and will be a separate
fund.
Mayor Kavanagh thanked Councilmember Brown and Councilmember Yates for all of the work that they have done on
this project. She said they have provided a lot of direction and spent a lot of hours on this. She further stated that their
expertise has been invaluable as far as helping the rest of the Council to make their decisions.
AGENDA ITEM #2 - ADJOURNMENT
Without objection, the Special Session adjourned at 6:26 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
By: _____________________________
Mayor Linda M. Kavanagh
ATTEST AND
PREPARED BY:
_____________________________
Bevelyn J. Bender, Town Clerk
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of the Special Session held by the
Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council Chambers on the 1st day of November 2012. I further certify
that the meetings were duly called and that a quorum was present.
Dated this 15th day of November 2012.
_____________________________
Bevelyn J. Bender, Town Clerk