HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022.0222.TCRET.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE COUNCIL RETREAT
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
FEBRUARY 22, 2022
1. CALL TO ORDER — Mayor Dickey
Mayor Dickey called the Council Retreat of the Fountain Hills Town Council held
February 22, 2022, to order at 8:30 a.m.
2. ROLL CALL — Mayor Dickey
Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey; Councilmember Mike Scharnow; Councilmember David
Spelich; Councilmember Gerry Friedel; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Vice Mayor Alan Magazine
Staff Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town Clerk
Present: Elizabeth A. Klein
3. Overview and Key Findings from the Citizen Satisfaction of Services Survey
4. FY22 Financial Update & FY23 Financial Preview
5. Update on FY22 CIP and Preview of FY23 CIP
6. Facilities Reserve Plan Update.
7. Proposed Establishment of a Culture and Preservation Commission
8. Update on Law Enforcement and Fire Services Evaluations
9. American Rescue Plan Act (ARPA) and Recommended Uses of General Fund Savings
10. Update on the Citizen Committee on Long -Term Streets Needs
11. An Overview and Discussion of Requirements Relating to Detoxification Facilities and
Group Homes
12. Review and Discuss Possible Code Amendments Needed to Keep Town Codes up to
Date
13. Update on Enforcement Actions under the Updated Sign Ordinance
Town Council Retreat of February 22, 2022 2 of 2
14. Update on Possible Town of Fountain Hills Membership in the Arizona State Retirement
System
15. Proposed Community Branding Project to Provide the Town of Fountain Hills with a
Marketing Theme and Strategy to Promote the Community
16. Discussion Regarding a Possible Short -Term Lease of Four Peaks Elementary School for
Continuation of the Biz Hub Business Accelerator and Other Town Uses
17. Sunridge Neighborhood Park Survey Results and Possible Council Direction
18. ADJOURNMENT
The Council Retreat of the Fountain Hills Town Council held February 22, 2022,
adjourned at 3:50 p.m.
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
GinQ Dickey, Mayor
ATTEST AND PREPARED BY:
lizabeth . lein, Town Clerk
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
FEBRUARY 22, 2022 COUNCIL RETREAT
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Post -Production File
Town of Fountain Hills
February 22, 2022 Council Retreat
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Good morning, everyone. Thank you so much for being here. I
know -- well, most of you sort of have to be here, but thank you anyway. Same with us,
right? Appreciate it very much. We'll do roll call, please?
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Mayor Dickey?
MAYOR DICKEY: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE?
VICE TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember McMahon?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Friedel?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Present.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Scharnow?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Here.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Spelich?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Present.
TOWN CLERK KLEIN: Councilmember Grzybowski?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Present.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you, all. Grady, did you want to --
TOWN MANAGER MILLER: I do, Mayor. I just have a few words to say. First of all,
thank you. Thank you to the Council and to the staff who are all here today. Just have a
few words to say. First of all, don't freak out by looking at the 17-item agenda before
you. There are probably about six of the items that are what I would call fast -track -type
updates that we're going to probably try to spend about five minutes on. These are
already projects that are already in progress, that you're already aware of, so we're just
going to tell you where we are in that stage of the project.
The other thing I wanted to point out is, I just heard someone kind of laugh earlier about
the white tablecloths and how we kind of classed things up this year. The thing that is
very disappointing is that what we try to do is we try to in the past have the Council and
the staff sit together. And we really prefer to do that if we could. The issue is is that the
camera equipment in this room isn't optimized for it. And we tried doing this at the
community center a few years ago, which I would actually prefer the community center
because it's very much very open and transparent. But it's just not -- it was horrible. If
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you remember the videos that came out of it. The audio you couldn't really hear. So
we're back to this room, and this is a new setup. We're not really thrilled with it. I'm
thrilled in terms of at least it gives the staff a good opportunity to have a good seat and
see us. But we're going to try to return next year to the U-shape that was in front of the
screen. And we're going to see if we can either rent or purchase a couple cameras that we
can do. But we didn't have the ability -- these cameras are all fixed in place and we
couldn't do that this year, so we'll try to go back to that. It's all about transparency, and
we really want to make sure that our residents have an opportunity to see the Council at
work.
So the last thing I just wanted to reiterate is, we do these meetings once a year to talk
about what we would consider to be strategic issues. We try to get to spend a full day on
addressing items that we just don't have the time to do at a regular Council meeting. And
that's really the purpose of why we're here today.
So with that, I'll go ahead and turn it over to the Mayor. I think the Mayor might have
had some words to say, as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Just glad that you mentioned the transparency, because
I know when I first came on it wasn't just the retreat, but all of the work-study sessions
and such, and it kind of forced us to change our setup. But I think in the long run it's
more important to be able to have these things online so that people can watch them. So
that was a change that we made that every year we kind of figure it out a little bit more.
And then, in addition, we talked about some of the commissions will be that way, too.
But as we work it out, it's all in an effort to make sure everybody gets a chance to hear
and see what's going on.
So I think our -- we'll go one by one, obviously, and we'll try with having, like a meeting,
where you tell me if you're going to speak. But, you know, it's more informal. We don't
have -- you know, it's not the same. We're not taking any action. So I want everybody to
feel free to speak. If it seems like we're doing it more than one at a time, like, with a
view or something, we'll get it through. But again, thank you, all. I know that, just like
with the state of the town, getting to this point is such a big deal. You know, you have a
lot of work to do. A lot of looking back, a lot of present, and a lot of looking forward.
So I really appreciate us all being here and putting the time and effort into this most
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important thing that we do.
And our first item -- Grady, do you want to introduce it?
MANAGER MILLER: I do. So Mayor and Council, this has been a big priority for
some time, and that is to have a citizen satisfaction survey regarding town services. This
is important from a couple different standpoints.
One is, it helps us hear back from our residents how we're doing on the delivery of our
services.
Secondly, it also helps as we also had a question in there which the pollster is actually
here today and is going to actually give the presentation -- but we also had questions. If
we were to have to get into a cost-cutting mode, what would the services be that the
residents, in priority order, would recommend cutting. So again, this is a very good --
what I would call a baseline survey. I have used ETC when I was in Peoria and also
another community in Rhode Island. I noticed that the town actually used ETC probably
15 years ago for some other work. So this is a familiar firm, both to myself, but also the
Town of Fountain Hills having used this firm before.
With that, I'm going to turn it over to Bo, who will just kind of explain briefly a little bit
about what we were trying to accomplish. And then, he'll introduce Ryan Murray of the
ETC Institute.
With that, I'll turn it over to Mr. -- our community relations manager.
BO LARSEN: It's early.
LARSEN: Wink Martindale here. Okay. Am I on now? All right. Mayor and Council,
I'll start over. We started working with ETC after last year's approval of the budget in
July. And we launched the community survey in October after several months of
finalizing the types of questions that would work for our town so we can get the
understanding of the types of things that we want to work on moving forward in the
future. Obviously, this is streets; this is community services, trying to get different
opinions of what our residents would want to know. And also, what we want to know so
that in a couple years when we do this again, another survey, we know we can show how
we're improving in those areas once we know what residents really want us to improve
in.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I ask you real quickly? Have we done this before in a large
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scale like this, Grady?
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MANAGER MILLER: Not a generalized one. We have done it previously on specific
issues that the town was surveying residents about, but we've not done a very broad
generalized -type survey like this. The first time that we've done one. Now, Vision
Fountain Hills actually did one, and it was good from an anecdotal standpoint, but it
wasn't a statistically valid survey, nor was it tested. And this firm, actually -- what's
really good about this firm in addition to doing these for municipalities -- that's their
primary clientele -- they also have benchmarking data, which I think all of you saw,
which compares how we -- our residents felt about the questions or their sentiments
compared to the other cities of similar size and complexity.
LARSEN: Yes. So with some of that background, this budget, so you know -- because
I'm sure it's going to be a question -- it cost us 18,500. We had in our budget $20,000 for
this, and so we were in line with our budget expectations. And without further ado, I'm
going to introduce Ryan Murray. He's with the ETC group. He's from Kansas, actually
lives in Missouri, so I have a kindred spirit. And so Ryan, would you mind coming up?
MURRAY: Yeah. Hi. Hi. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Council. It's a pleasure to
be here. I'll be here on Tuesday next week as well. So you know, you can gear up today
for the tough questions to put me on the spot in front of the Town Council again. But it's
a pleasure to be here. As Grady -- Mr. MANAGER MILLER and Mr. Larson had
mentioned -- we've worked in the town before but never on kind of a general community
satisfaction survey such as this.
So for those of you aren't familiar with ETC Institute -- and I'm going far too many
slides, I think here. Nope. All right. We're really the national leader in market research
for governmental organizations. And so most of our clientele are municipalities as well
as some county organizations. Tempe is a client of ours. Mag (ph.) has been a client of
ours. So we have -- do a lot of work within the governmental sphere. And most of our
work, if not all of it, is statistically valid survey work, and we have quite the clientele list
throughout the country here. And I have done something. Let me see if this will just
work. All right. I apologize. There we go. All right. So now, I've got this figured out.
So the purpose of our survey -- and most of our surveys -- are really to objectively assess
satisfaction. So we want to ask questions in general terms, just generally understanding
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satisfaction and perceptions of town values and services. Beyond that, our firm has the
ability to compare your results, both regionally and nationally to results, and you'll find
that in your full report. And then we help determine priorities for the community. So
had, you know, even everyone in the community given just phenomenal marks across the
board for each one of these items, we still would've developed priorities for the
community. And I think that one of the major takeaways today is that the results are
actually very good, and we'll talk about that just here in the next slide.
As I mentioned, this was the first community survey administered for the town. We
administer these surveys primarily by mail and online. And that includes text message,
email follow-ups. If we would've needed, we could've sent out a post card to remind
residents to participate. But the response rate here was just really, really great. So when
we do these surveys we know how many surveys typically will yield our goal. And so
when we get over our goal, it means that the community is really interested in
participating.
We had 465 completed surveys. Our goal was 400 completed surveys. What that gives
us is a margin of error of about 5 percent -- 4 1/2 percent with a 95 percent level of
confidence, which really means that if we were to have conducted the research 100 times,
95 out of 100 times, we're going to get these same results, plus or minus our margin of
error for those questions.
We also geolocate or geocode the home address of each respondent. If anybody on the
Council or the Mayor's took the survey, the last question of the survey required you to put
your home address in. We wanted to make sure your address was, one, selected for the
random sample and two, most definitely in the Town of Fountain Hills. And as you can
see, we have a great dispersion of responses from throughout the town. So some of those
areas are not populated, but what we want to see is a fairly even distribution across all
town neighborhoods and we don't want a concentration of responses coming from one in
particular area. And so we're going to map these as the survey's conducted. But really,
it's to ensure that we've dispersed the surveys evenly, because sometimes the randomized
methodology can have you concentrated surveys by random. So we want to make sure
we're collecting those at a good clip from throughout the community.
Oh, I apologize here. I think I've gone forward one too many slides here. I apologize. I
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can use the arrows. All right. So we did that. We did methodology. I apologize here. It
is early.
So the bottom line up front, if you take away nothing else from today's presentation, it
should be that the town performed very well in these results. Almost 95 percent of
residents gave a excellent or good rating when rating the quality of life in the community.
Almost 80 percent indicated that it was an excellent place or good place where you're
delivering services. And as we can see in some of the further slides as I'll get into those,
you're really equitably providing those services across all town areas. So most residents,
regardless of where you live, are generally satisfied with the quality of life and the level
of service that you're providing.
One of the other takeaways here should be that you're performing significantly higher
than other communities, according to our benchmark, in a number of areas. So 33 of the
41 areas we were able to assess were significantly above our national average. And the
overall quality of life in the community rated almost 14 percentage points above our
national average, which is just really phenomenal.
As I mentioned at the top, the purpose of the survey was to develop priorities. You'll see
some of this later on in the presentation. It's really maintenance of streets and
infrastructure, town's codes and ordinances -- and we'll talk a little bit more about why
that one's so difficult -- and communication with the public moving forward.
When we get to perceptions, as I've already alluded to, the perceptions are extremely
high. As we review these tables and charts out to the left are going to be my positive
responses. Those are usually going to be shaded in blue -- it's either excellent or good or
very satisfied and satisfied. Neutral responses are shaded in MANAGER MILLER and
anything in the negative scale -- Is and 2s -- are usually going to be shaded in that red
and pink.
In order to interpret these charts, I always like to kind of put some context to the neutral
responses. Neutral responses are residents who had an opinion that wasn't negative or
positive. They had experienced the service. They believe that they have some intuition
on what's going on in that particular value, but they don't necessarily -- or haven't had a
perception made upon them. So those are sway voters there. So as you'll see down
towards the bottom, leadership of town elected officials. So you're performing relatively
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well. About 50 percent of respondents indicated they're satisfied with that particular
item. But you've got one-third of your population who's kind of in that swing category
who probably just don't have enough information to make an informed decision into the
positive or to the negative. And instead of selecting "don't know", they gave a more
neutral response.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I ask you about that? So with the comparisons to other cities,
did we get a lot of neutral answers?
MURRAY: No. I wouldn't say you've received significantly more neutral responses
from other folks, but I do feel like additional communication and outreach in key areas,
specifically, some of those top priorities for improvement, will be important in the future.
We found that there's been a direct correlation -- and we're working with Kansas State
University and their data analytics program -- to do some of this. They're putting some of
our historical results into Al machine learning programs, and what they found is a
dramatic correlation between positive communication scores and positive scores
generally in our perceptions questions. So what we found is that as communication
increases and communication scores increases as the community becomes the top
communication source for residents and as we're able to communicate effectively with
those folks, communication will drive the rest of the scores in these particular areas. And
so we think that's a really important area to focus on. In a couple slides, we'll see that
residents indicated that was one of the areas that they'd be okay with us taking away
from. But we'll also see that there was lower levels of satisfaction with some pretty big
groups of neutral for a couple of those areas as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's kind of what I'm asking, is with a community that has maybe
the age or the who's working, who isn't working, or there's a lot of kind of cross -tab stuff
there that I wondered if it's a matter of they're just living their lives, and they don't really
know if we have programs for kids, for example. But it doesn't affect them one way or
the other so --
MURRAY: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- I'd want to get a little bit more understanding about whether that
has to do with communication or just that they're just kind of going along and just don't
really know a lot about some of these items.
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MURRAY: I would say it is more that folks are kind of living their lives and don't
necessarily have the time to interact. I was speaking with somebody in the audience who
said, you know, I've got all these extracurriculars -- I haven't been able to participate in
boards or committees and things like that. And so I think there's a lot of residents,
probably, in Fountain Hills with children or extracurriculars and they just don't have the
opportunity, you know, to watch the meeting this morning or to sit down this evening and
to rewatch it or to watch Council's meeting next week. So there's a lot of folks who just
don't have the time. One thing to keep in mind is that these results for leadership of
elected officials have been tested quite a bit the last couple of years -- police ratings as
well. Folks are generally less satisfied but not for any particular reason as to what we
found. It seems to be general perceptions, probably from larger news media sources,
kind of beating up those folks in the local coverage and things like that from time to time.
And we've seen that across the country. And because this is a baseline, I would caution
us to think that this is kind of where we're at, and you know, hopefully we don't go down.
It's more like we'll probably regress towards the mean, you know, in an upwards motions
later on.
MAYOR DICKEY: And that's the other question -- and I'll get to you, Gerry -- but the
you know, the whole pandemic and all of these are being looked at in 2021, I think, so
might have a little bit of a different -- Gerry?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Do we have any age demographic breakdown of these
responses?
MURRAY: Yeah. So ahead of next week's meeting I can definitely do that. I'll run
some statistical testing on those and bring anything pertinent to the group, make sure that
we focus on that.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Okay. Thank you.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: A quick question. Overall quality of life is about 94
percent, which is excellent or good, but roads and relationship with the town citizens is
very low. How does that skew the 94 percent? Any idea?
MURRAY: So one thing that I was talking with Bo about earlier and on the phone as we
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were reviewing the results, you're in a unique position where you're in a really, really
great community and folks are telling you that, hey, the quality of life here is fantastic.
What that comes along with is a lot of high expectations. So folks have quite the
expectations for you all. So even a minor slipup in our maintenance of streets -- even a
single pothole -- can have a dramatic impact on our perceptions of how you're
maintaining that one specific service area. But folks were generally -- and I think that
there's really no -- there's nothing to tell us anything other than folks really enjoy living
here. There's just some areas. And they expect you to probably move on some of those
areas that they've told us they're less satisfied with in these charts. Yeah.
MANAGER MILLER: And Ryan and Bo and I had talked about the other aspect, which
is I believe you could just really translate the high regards for those scores back to the
Council. Because they're the ones that are actually funding a lot of the programs and
services. And so there is the cause and effect on that. So while the individual questions
may not really rise as high or do not have as high of a score rating, certainly there is that
ability to translate that indirectly to the elected officials here.
MURRAY: And as we know, everybody, you know -- the room is not full. It was an
open meeting. I'm sure it was well -publicized within the community. Folks, you know,
may be online, but folks don't drive, you know, to these meetings and they don't come in
great numbers to these meetings unless there's something really pertinent or they're being
recognized. So one thing to keep in mind is that they have high expectations. They're
really satisfied with what's currently going on here. They've told us some nitpicky things,
in my opinion, just based on some of the other communities, such as Tempe, that I work
with. And they'd like you to fix them and pay attention to those, but not everybody has
the time to be completely informed of what goes on in these chambers. And I think that
that's kind of clear in some of these neutral responses on this particular slide here.
So in addition to the dot map that we've provided, and kind of transitioning to this slide is
difficult, but what we've done is we've shaded each one of these areas based on the mean
average or mean or average rating that was given within each question. So this is the
overall quality of life in the town. As you can see, this is where I alluded to your
equitably distributing services to all members of the community. There is one particular
area that kind of averaged out to the good response, 4.2 to 3.4 versus that 4.2 to 5, but for
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the vast majority of residents in your community, folks are rating you very highly in that
area.
Same with overall appearance of the town. That one zone that was shaded a little bit
lighter blue previously is now shading neutral. So those folks just kind of have that
higher level of standard there for their responses. And as you can go back to the dot map
and see, there aren't a ton of residential -- or there weren't a ton of responses in that area,
so it's some responses impacting that average rating there. But these maps are great for
public works folks, parks and rec folks, to understand where there might be problem
areas or where there might be lower levels of satisfaction or excellent, good ratings
throughout the town. Again, keeping in mind, these are averaged based on all of the
responses within those black boundaries that are shown there.
This is overall level of satisfaction with the quality of town services. So this is kind of
the litany -- the big grouping of services that you have here. As you can see, fewer
neutral responses, which means folks do have some indication as to what's going on here.
Starting at the bottom one, enforcement of town codes and ordinances -- that's a really
difficult one. Folks that indicated they're satisfied likely either were not called to be
enforced upon or called for somebody else to be enforced upon and had that actually
follow through. So that person actually had to change some of their behaviors or do
something to their physical property, probably. The folks that are dissatisfied are likely
the folks that were enforced upon or did not have their request granted, so hey, I think
that is not happening and that should not happen, but, you know, it's not against
regulation. That is a tough one. Anybody that knows about codes enforcement, that's a
tough issue to get right in a community. It's one of our top priorities for improvement
because of the lower levels of satisfaction, and it's also relatively important to
respondents.
We go up one, maintenance of Fountain Hills streets and infrastructure. Relatively good
levels of satisfaction there, ranging about 50 percent of folks are satisfied. But it received
the highest level of dissatisfaction in that particular area.
And then effectiveness of town communication with the public. As we'll see later in the
slides, the Fountain Hills Times is really the primary source of information, followed by
word of mouth. But folks would probably rather see more information from your website
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and more information straight from Council or from the source. Yeah, please?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I have a question, if you don't mind. It seems like
there's a contradiction going on about communication. Because on the Q3 slide page, it
says, "Residents were asked to rate if the town needed to reduce or eliminate major
services, which three services would they be most willing for the town to reduce and
eliminate?" Well, the last one is -- after the library and ordinances -- it says,
"Ineffectiveness of the town's communication with the public at about 30 percent." So to
me that seems like a contradiction. If they're complaining about the lack of transparency
and communication, how did we get to this place where they want to reduce it as a
service?
MURRAY: Yeah. And I think that's because they'd rather see you reduce
communication than not fix our roads. Or reduce communication versus -- and so I think
the juxtaposition here is important to understand of the other services that were on this
list. So would you put fire protection above libraries or communication? So I think
when reviewing this question the items that are at the top make sense because you
wouldn't want a reduction in your public safety services or your public work services.
You wouldn't want to see a reduction in sheriffs services, so you've selected the items
that are likely going to have the least impact on your, you know, day-to-day life, which
would be library services, which we know go underutilized in a majority of communities,
followed by two other community services that don't have a great impact on your daily
life. So that's why --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I understand that, but it still seems contradictory
given the negative content we are used to seeing and receiving in lack of transparency, et
cetera, et cetera. I guess, to me, it just seems skewered there.
MURRAY: Yeah. I think after reviewing so much of this data, we don't ask this
question typically. So it's an interesting -- it's an interesting question to ask. So what
we've done is that we've asked residents to rate the quality of the services, rate which
ones should receive the most emphasis, and then which ones, if needed, should see a
reduction in service. But if you take a close look at this list, personally, I wouldn't put
anything, you know, below those top three, because I don't want to see a reduction in my
own town's public safety services or flow of traffic or parks and recreation or garbage.
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So those are front door -type items, where codes and maintenance and effective
communication and library services are kind of in the backyard of everybody's mind.
So I think that, yes, there was some, like you said, some kind of bashing of those results
that didn't make a lot of sense, why we're seeing, you know, lower levels of satisfaction
in a slide previously, and then, now, hey, you want to reduce services? But it's really, if I
had to choose which services would be reduced, I'd pick the ones that had the least
impact on my day-to-day life. So I think that's what we're seeing in question three here.
And so while we do get feedback about transparency quite frequently, I think one thing
for Council to keep in mind is that we're hearing from the aggregate public here. And so
we hear frequently from the folks that know us closely or know our roles in the
community. So you're probably frequently seeing comments online or talking to people
in the community that know you're a councilmember and know what type of topics to
drive with you.
The same for everybody else, you're hearing about you're not being transparent, but in the
greater aggregate group of the community, it's likely not the same, you know, it's not the
same issue. Am I missing a question?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Back to the enforcement
of town codes and ordinances by the town. I somewhat disagree with the way that you
broke that down. I receive numerous emails from residents who actually see code
enforcement violations. And I think there's some dissatisfaction in the fact that our code
enforcement officers -- unless this has changed and the town manager can weigh in on
this -- but were not on -viewing things that were wrong in the town, which I had a glaring
problem with. And if that hasn't changed, I have a even more glaring problem with that
our code enforcement was driven by complaints only. So they could drive around all
day, see many things that they knew were a violation and everything, and just continued
to drive by because someone didn't dime -out their neighbor or somebody didn't call. So I
think that the way that you read into it and -- no offense to you -- you do this every day --
so I'm just thinking that there's some dissatisfaction there because I've personally
received emails from people and town residents who are like, why aren't you doing
anything about somebody that has 75 bicycles in their driveway?
MURRAY: That's the type of information I don't have. That's great to put that result into
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context.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you.
MURRAY: Folks are generally dissatisfied not only -- you know, there are probably a
few instances. What I mentioned were enforcing or enforcing upon. But if you talk to
folks that have that opinion, then I hope that these results kind of make sense to where
there was a small portion of folks -- maybe one out of five, who indicated I'm not
generally satisfied with this area because I drive around seeing violations without there
being --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Also, you have to keep in mind too, that we have an
unusually high volume of retired law enforcement that live in town and public servants,
also, fire and everything. They know what's right and what's not right, and we -- being in
law enforcement and firefighters and that -- we kind of have an ability to take
complaining to a new level. So I'm sure that has also something to do -- so if you sent
one of these surveys to a retired cop or a retired firefighter who was a little salty about the
way things are going, then, of course, you're going to get --
MURRAY: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- crappy marks.
MURRAY: Yeah. And I think it goes to show, again, high levels of expectations for all
these varying reasons. You know, some retired folks, some retired law enforcement --
and so kind of building upon those layers and who we know the community's comprised
of. I hope that some of the areas where you received lower results are making sense to
you or you can kind of build some story to that, some narrative to that. The narrative that
I bring to the table is from past experience. So the narrative that I had was from Olethe,
Kansas where our home quarter says, we've done a couple over the years of code -specific
surveys. And one thing that they found that really helped was sending out quarterly
notifications. And I know that is a little bit difficult in a place where you don't get a ton
of seasons -- we get all four where we are in Kansas -- so you can kind of -- you know,
hey, here's the snow ones, here's the spring ones, here are the fall ones. But for you all,
you know, even a couple times of a year, sending out those note cards, folks begin to self -
regulate. So if they know the rules and they're getting the letter, they're afraid that their
neighbor's going to follow the rules and they may not. And so that was some of the other
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results that we found from our City of Olethe surveys that we've done. Yeah, please?
MAYOR DICKEY: Grady?
MANAGER MILLER: Thanks. I just wanted to follow up on Councilmember Spelich's
comments. So yes, you're right, we used to, in the past, respond to citizen complaints,
but after the Council authorized a second position, which, I might add is the code
enforcement officer is also a former retired law enforcement officer. He's very good.
And he drives around finding code violations and is proactive. So we've stepped it up
thanks to the Council authorizing a second position.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. I like the idea you mentioned the quarterly
reminders, you know, seasonal, and even though we don't have four seasons per se here, I
know, you know, my mother-in-law used to live in Avondale and the City of Avondale
would send out a post card, I think, every once in a while, just reminders, like, hey, you
know, garbage cans, landscaping, weeds, you know. So we do have some seasonal things
here that maybe that would be something to consider for staff to look at, sending
something out, just periodic reminders about certain ordinances that are relevant.
MURRAY: And to save printing costs, if you have a text or email notification, that's an
appropriate route as well. I know post cards can be expensive and printing costs can be
expensive. But definitely keeping it in the front of their minds, folks will begin to self -
enforce versus kind of hoping that the town catches on to it. So this is another --
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Can I ask one more question?
MURRAY: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: When was the survey sent out, and did that include
both full-time residents and/or part-time residents, or do we know?
MURRAY: Yeah. So it would've been both full and part-time because it was a random
sample of all residential addresses here. So had it been maybe done -- well, I guess it was
done at a pretty good time of year to get both part and full-time residents, right? Because
we conducted it in late fall, going into the winter. So hopefully, that was a good
opportunity to get both of those groups combined. We do that a lot here in Arizona. We
skip surveying in those early to late summer months just to give everybody an
opportunity to respond.
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One thing that we completely failed to mention, we're really beating things up here. You
know, these are phenomenal results, and I think, you know, hopefully, that intro slide let
you know.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Would you repeat that, please?
[LAUGHTER]
MURRAY: Yeah. In our professional opinion, these are phenomenal results. But what
we failed to even acknowledge is all of the items at the top. I know Chief is here -- or I
believe the fire chief is here. Fire protection services phenomenal. Parks and recreation
phenomenal. Library, ease of getting around town -- a lot of fantastic results in this
overall satisfaction site that we just completely breezed through and didn't even mention.
I wanted to make sure we mentioned those.
Here are some additional maps. And the reason that I've introduced maps into the
presentation is really to give you an ability to kind of see how I see them in our reporting.
This is effectiveness of town communication. As we notice, it's still that same area
showing neutral. The area just to the north now showing neutral as well, but most of
your residents are pretty satisfied with how effectively you're doing that.
Maintenance of streets and infrastructure. This is the item in high -performing
communities that is always going to get nitpicked. And I mentioned that term earlier. I
don't like to do that because residents do have valid concerns. But when you're
performing at such a high level, I do feel that they will nitpick you on specifically, codes
and ordinances and street maintenance, and I feel we're seeing that here in the results.
MAYOR DICKEY: I had a couple -- I'm sorry.
MURRAY: Please.
MAYOR DICKEY: There was another one a few ago and then these are all here, right?
If I'm looking at the map, it's the downtown, which we just, like, did all the roads. So I
don't know what's really going on with that unless it's getting combined with wanting
more stores here or something. But if they're talking about infrastructure, you know, with
the median and the roads being done, it's a little bit hard to figure that one out. Because
nobody really -- yeah. So.
MURRAY: And so we're seeing that kind of dispersed throughout the community. I
think that we must also understand this is where the respondents live. So you know, if
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we talk about some items we'll know that it's (indiscernible) at your home or near your
home with regards to code enforcement likely. But when it comes to street maintenance,
you know, if you're going to go into Phoenix, you're going to hit other streets on your
way out of this general area. And so I think just kind of keeping the fact that these
responses are averaged based on the location of the home address, and not necessarily the
location of a problem area.
MAYOR DICKEY: Ah, okay. Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I think you sort of answered the question I was going to
ask, which is there's no way to know whether or not the dissatisfaction with
neighborhood streets versus other kinds of streets, arterials and so on; is that correct?
MURRAY: So when we're talking about maintenance of streets and infrastructure
generally, I would say kind of, you know, thinking about the town overall -- when we're
talking about neighborhood streets, I would focus on those specific areas that are
highlighted. Because you would assume, and what we found, is that folks are usually
taking these surveys, thinking of themselves, primarily. You know, how are my
neighborhood streets. Not, you know, I visited a neighborhood a few weeks ago, they
were rough. So when it comes to neighborhood streets, those maps, I think do tell us a
really clear picture about which neighborhoods might be in trouble.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: So I pulled up on monitor number two the graph
of the address dots that he showed us a few slides ago, and if you look at the number of
address dots in the downtown area, there's not a whole lot of respondents. So I'm sure
that has something to do with it as well. You can almost count each half from, like, the
townhall block. We've got eight, seven. And the other side is the same number. So it's a
small number of people.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MURRAY: And these maps are really meant to give us that higher level of --
[CROSS TALK]
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Did you say that you visited a street here that was
rough?
MURRAY: No, no, no. I said, somebody might think that.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Oh.
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MURRAY: Yeah. No. I've not really not left this general area, and things have been
really, really good.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Oh.
MURRAY: Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Because, I was going to say --
MURRAY: Yeah. Yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: You got to get out of Kansas.
MURRAY: Yeah. No. No. Yeah. We just got a bunch of snow, so my streets are
rough, you know, potholes that deep, and it's not pleasant, so. Enforcement of town
codes and ordinances. I apologize. I love the discussion, but I'm used to just kind of the
presentation at council meetings.
MAYOR DICKEY: Sorry.
MURRAY: No, no, no. So I feel like it's throwing my rhythm off a little bit, so I'm like,
uh, uh -- yeah. So yes, this item was rated as the third highest priority. I think maybe
focusing some of the code enforcement efforts, you know, if we look at some of these
particular areas, hopefully, we're finding some of those complaints are what you're
hearing from some of these areas. I would say, code enforcement issues are likely going
to be, again, kind of like the neighborhood street maps where we should be able to focus
on those areas and assume that there are some problems in those particular areas.
And as we noticed here -- and please, just so I can go back -- we're not seeing any orange
ratings. I don't think you saw really any orange in any of your maps in your reporting.
The town is doing very well. These are just neutral ratings averaging out to neutral
instead of the satisfied or very satisfied.
MURRAY: Yeah. No, no, no, no. Not at all. Not at all. I just want to make sure I'm
providing the context here since I've seen so many of these. And then back to
Councilmember McMahon's -- this is that question where we asked and I skipped
forward to it. We've kind of already discussed this. I discussed it with Bo, as well. I
think taking it from, you know, firsthand perspective just as a general resident of the
Town of Fountain Hills, you all can realize I'm going to select the items that the town is
going to use this as an informational source to make decisions on -- I'm going to select
the items for reduction that are going to have the least impact on my daily life, which
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should be those items towards the top. Even though maybe I don't think that the
Council's being transparent enough as a resident, I would much rather have you be less
transparent as long as my garbage is collected on time. And I think that that's just really
where we have to view this question. I think with Mr. Miller and Mr. Larson's guidance,
we can reformulate this question for next time. Maybe even highlighting a few of these
results from 2021, 2022, and then trying to provide some context for residents around
those results as well.
Benchmarks. So the town rates significantly higher than other communities. We already
kind of went over this. Significant increases are basically outside of your margin of error
of about 4 1/2 percent. I've marked with up arrows those areas where you're significantly
outperforming the national average. In your report, you see a few other lines. It's just
really busy for a presentation like this to put all of those trend lines or all of those
benchmark lines there, but our normative comparisons are really bar -none. We conduct
this survey regularly. It is asked in the same question manner. It's asked with the same
methodology types, so we really know we're comparing your apples to apples when
you're looking both at your regional and other results as well.
One thing that I would kind of caution everybody to do is to understand, you know, poor
ratings might look poor when we're just looking at some of satisfied and very satisfied
responses. I'm going to pick on the again, effectiveness of the town/city communication
with the public -- 61 1/2 percent might've said to us, hey, that's not really where we want
to be. That's not where we feel like we could be, but when you see comparatively
speaking, we're actually comparative right along the national average. And so the
benchmarks provide the contextualization of the results that are needed sometimes in
those really difficult areas where residents are just generally dissatisfied, usually because
of lack of participation. Please.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah. It's not on this particular slide, but I'm concerned
by the review of the citizens on transparency. So I guess my question is is you survey
other towns and communities -- is it much different than our -- we see the citizens saying
about transparency?
MURRAY: I think the only way that you would -- and I hate to be so stark in kind of
reviewing this, but I see a lot of these results and it's frustrating, because I can easily go
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out and find Council agenda packets and meeting minutes and video recordings of all
these meetings for communities that I don't live in. And I can do this nationwide. And
so ahead of my council presentations I'm typically scouring their website for the agenda
packet so I know when my time might be to speak. It's frustrating that residents
continually tell us that Councils and elected officials are not being transparent when,
really, the meeting notes, agenda packets, everything is public record nowadays. You
know, you could even watch the meeting in full for the most part. It's disheartening to
think that residents just don't understand where to find the information or don't
understand that we are being transparent. And I think the only way we're going to see a
change in this is maybe a societal shift in perceptions or if we start delivering TVs that
just run your Council meetings every week.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I think it's the most --
MURRAY: Just turn it on in your living room.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah. I think it's the most frustrating thing that we deal
with.
MURRAY: Yeah.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I have said over and over again that this is a problem
that's viewed by citizens in every city and town in America --
MURRAY: Yes.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- no matter what you do. And it's very frustrating.
MURRAY: Yep. It's very difficult. You know, even communication gets beat up. I'm
sure the town is communicating effectively. I've met a person -- a member of the media
today. You know, the town is probably communicating pretty well, we just need to make
sure that we're kind of shifting them from that word of mouth -- because as you noticed,
you know, they're getting the news from the newspaper or word of mouth. That's a
difficult proposition, because if you're getting your news from your neighbor who thinks
that you're not transparent, well, now, you've got another person on the nontransparent
side.
MAYOR DICKEY: Also, I was going to mention that, you know, phenomenon of
obvious social media, which has all the ups and downs in so many ways in our
communities -- you know, just today, I mentioned to Grady just three things that are on
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Facebook right now that are just, like, just absolutely not true. So you chase -- you know,
you either have someone here full time who's going to be on social media trying to chase
things down, or you post a link to the minutes of the meeting where you actually did that.
But that draws crickets. So it's a very -- it is, but I guess the lesson is that we never stop
trying. We will always try to communicate whether it's -- obviously, the newspaper's
great. Spiffing up the website. Texts. We're on everything now. Poor Bo, you're on
Instagram now and everything. And we're all just going to have to keep trying to do that
as best that we can, but I do think that that is a role -- this word of mouth, which in the
old days just meant, you know, talking to your neighbor is now something. You see, did
you hear, and then all of a sudden it becomes something that -- but it was never maybe
true in the first place, so.
MURRAY: Somebody might review one of those stories this morning. It might be
retracted tomorrow and then on Saturday they're telling their friends and their neighbors
about it. And so by then, you know, it's gotten out of hand. Social media does not --
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: No, I do appreciate your viewpoint on that and
your comments and the perspective and agree with you two over here as well. It is very
frustrating. And being a former media guy myself, you know, it's even more frustrating
because all this misinformation just gets spread out there. So I do appreciate that
perspective. And even if we were to send a TV to every household that only showed
Council meetings, you can't make them watch it. So you know, just saying.
MURRAY: Yeah. It's a difficult situation that every community's really in at this
moment -- I truly believe that it's fueled mainly by social media. But there's nothing we
can do about that except for make sure our presence on social media's known. And that's
the best we can do. I always call that, Mayor, the hard work of democracy. You know,
you all just continue to beat your head against the brick wall of hey, here's the
information, here's the information -- nobody's listening. Crickets. It's really
disheartening to see councils strive for that -- strive for transparency and still hear that in
the community.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, thank you.
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. And I just want to just chime in and let you know that Bo
has been working on a communications plan to kind of supersize what we do already.
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And also as part of that there's also a citizen engagement process. We're going to be
taking these both to the Council on, I believe, it's next month, right, Bo?
LARSEN: No. Next week.
MANAGER MILLER: Next week. So any case -- so that's the plan and we're going to
try to do everything we can to try to reach out to residents and do a better job in some
areas. I think some areas we're doing pretty well. But I guess the media is the message
here. And that is, we're letting the residents know that we're going to have all these
different tools, many of which we already use, to try to reach out to them and make sure
that we're as transparent as possible.
MURRAY: So just continuing our benchmarking perceptions of town/city safety,
performing very well in all three of those areas. Feelings of safety in neighborhoods
during the day, at night, and in city parks, which is really interesting, because I believe
there are almost no street lights in town. So I would not have assumed that over 9 out of
10 of your residents feel safe in the community in the dark. You know, I had a
community of about 5,000, and one street light went out on one city street and we had a
massive change in results from one year to the next. So that is quite phenomenal. Folks
do feel safe here. It doesn't matter how well lit the streets are. Public safety services --
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Wait. Before we move on from that slide. Go
back one slide for me, please, sir. Thank you. I just want to point out --
MURRAY: Public safety or the next one?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKL• The safety. I just want to point out, this will
come in handy for conversation later on. Just the overall safety during the day, during the
night, and pointing out in the town parks as well. That's all. Thank you.
MURRAY: Really good results. Public safety services, fire protection, EMS protection,
police protection, right along the national average. That's been a really difficult issue.
We saw some really deep decreases in satisfaction across the board in otherwise high -
performing organizations, which was difficult. We do some police surveys. City of
Durham really got hurt, I think, over what's happened over the last couple of years. And
again, probably some media outreach on that as well. But otherwise, performing very
well in terms of all of these areas. Hopefully, I'm clicking here.
Parks and recreation services performing phenomenally well. I mean, those are excellent
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results for a community that's probably pretty engaged in your parks and recreation
offerings.
Communication. Folks are satisfied with the availability of information, but dissatisfied
or more along the lines of the national average in efforts to keep you informed. So again,
finding out what those ways that we can keep people informed without literally shoving it
in their faces all the time. So folks, to 70 percent or so folks believe that you're
adequately providing the information. It's just how well are you working to keep me
informed, which is something we've kind of talked about at great length already.
Maintenance services. This again -- this is why I used the term nitpicky earlier.
Maintenance services are performing extremely well. Maintenance of landscaping,
streets and public areas, street signs, condition of your streets and neighborhoods above
the national average, just not a significant change in condition of major town streets. So
folks are generally saying that you're doing pretty well in these areas. Comparatively
speaking as well, but it's just one of those areas that they'd like to continue to see an
increase in services.
And so that's where it gets us into our priority investment ratings or our important
satisfaction analysis. We asked residents -- and I think Ms. -- or excuse me,
Councilmember McMahon, this might interest you. So the important satisfaction
analysis is predicated not on the reduction in service question but on the emphasis in
service question. And what we found when we first started doing this -- I was not around
then -- but when the owners first started doing this, folks would generally overstate
satisfaction or dissatisfaction with some services, not to a great length, but to a length
where we would see high levels of dissatisfaction. We'd work on that service area. We
wouldn't see a change in our general satisfaction with city services or town services. We
started adding the emphasis question, turning it into an analysis feature. And what we
found is that by focusing on the areas that are above average importance or emphasis --
the importance column -- below average satisfaction -- we're actually going to be able to
turn the tides in general satisfaction in other areas throughout the survey.
And so while the results are pretty good for the Town of Fountain Hills, focusing on
those items in yellow and in pink at the top of this table are going to give us the best
opportunity to kind of move the needle, not only on these items in terms of satisfaction,
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but general satisfaction with the delivery of town services.
Quality of Maricopa County Sheriffs Office services. This is also --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Before you go on. Maybe I'm misunderstanding a
previous slide, but it says, "Effectiveness of town's communication with the public 61 1/2
percent." But wasn't that much lower in a previous slide?
MURRAY: I don't believe so. This is the --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: That's all right.
MURRAY: -- sum of satisfied and very dissatisfied.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: All right. Don't go back. That's all right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Right before it was that, I think.
MURRAY: Was it right before it?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. I think so. The big one.
MURRAY: That is --
MAYOR DICKEY: Keep you informed.
MURRAY: This is availability and town's efforts to keep you informed. There's a lot of
different terminology and nomenclature here that's keeping me on my toes now.
MAYOR DICKEY: I recognize the 68 percent --
MURRAY: I apologize.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- so I thought maybe that was it.
MURRAY: I've got the report here as well.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: That's okay.
MURRAY: Effectiveness of town's communication with the public -- 39 plus 23 is 50 --
61 1/2. Yep. So that should be correct, yeah. I'll doublecheck that again before
Tuesday, along with those cross -tabulations.
So really, maintenance of Fountain Hills streets and infrastructure, we got really good
ratings there. We're rating along the national average. Which, again, tells us the
expectations are relatively high for the delivery of all city services and town services
here. So focusing on the items at the top of this list will ensure that the satisfaction
comes up, that the importance begins to dip, hopefully, in a few of those areas. I
highlighted the County Sheriffs Office services in yellow because it is one of those areas
that if we don't start to at least speak to what we're doing to try to improve that service, or
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maybe improve the relationship with Maricopa County, we might see that item fall into
the high priorities for improvement column next time.
Communication with the public is just barely a high priority. And again, it just really
goes to show how important this is going to be in the future because we're going to need
to let folks know what we're doing in response to this, but also strategic direction in some
of the areas that we're going to have improvements or we're going to strive to make
improvements in. We're able to do this for a number of different categories on the
survey. For example, public safety services. Folks feel very safe in the town. They'd
probably just like to know a little bit more about what we're doing to prevent crime. If
you have any strategic plans or if Chief has any particular news blurbs and things like
that. Those are things that all can kind of go out to help with this perception item, but it's
understandable that folks don't generally understand what you're doing to prevent crime
and that it's pretty important to about half of residents that you continue to emphasize that
particular service area.
The other two items right there is police protection provided, local traffic laws, enforcing
by MCSO. Whenever the county provides the policing services for a municipality there
is always some communication issues and always some understanding of what types of
services they're to be providing. So just making sure you're working closely with MCSO.
And then at least telling the residents what you're doing or how you're communicating
with them. Hey, we're communicating with MCSO. Here's some of the things that we've
discussed recently. Can even just be a little blurb to make sure that folks know that
you're communicating with those folks effectively.
Parks and recreation. There was really no high priorities here. I give a little bit higher
level of analysis in the presentation than in the reporting you'll find. There were no high
priorities for improvement when it comes to parks and recreation. You'll just want to
make sure that you're focusing on the quality of recreation programs offered. Really, the
best way to do that -- I don't know if parks folks are here, but exit surveys are always the
best way to do that. You can usually get a pretty cheap or almost free SurveyMonkey
account. Get an email. Send a survey immediately after. Not everybody's going to
reply, but it'll let you know if there are problem instructors or difficulties with the facility
or the timing or whatever it might be. That is an excellent way to make sure that item
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doesn't continue to climb. But as you can see, almost 80 percent, 8 out of 10 residents,
are generally satisfied with that area. It's just important to maintain that level of
satisfaction.
Town maintenance services is really where we see the crux -- the major city services that
we want to focus on here. Town services again, I apologize. That's major city -- major
town streets and streets in your neighborhood. Again, nitpicky. High expectations from
residents. You're performing a really good quality of service throughout the community,
as we saw on the maps. These are just areas that folks really want us to focus on.
Sometimes these areas -- it looks like you do chipseal here. I can't exactly tell. It was
dark last night when I came in. But if you have a chipseal maintenance schedule and
you're doing that street by street, folks that have their neighbor's street done and theirs
didn't get done right away or right after, you're going to be less satisfied than the
neighbors who got their street repaved or redone.
So just kind of keeping that in mind as you see that flow across the community. If your
schedule is such where you haven't hit some streets in five years, you've hit some streets
right in the summer before we did the survey, you could see why some folks are wanting
you to emphasize that and maybe why we got lower levels of satisfaction there.
And then communication. This has kind of been the crux of what we've been talking
about, I feel like, all morning here. Levels of satisfaction with communication, we see a
lot of neutral responses, which means that there's a lot of residents that can be swayed
into a positive or negative perception value. I would say that the town seems to be
moving in the direction that you have more of an opportunity to sway folks to the very
satisfied and satisfied columns than you do to lose them to the dissatisfied areas. A lot of
folks just generally seem to not be paying close attention to what we're doing with
regards to this particular table. It makes a lot of sense after hearing you're not
transparent. It makes sense that folks are maybe not tuning in to understand how
transparent you truly are. And a lot of this seems to make sense. Some of the areas,
particularly how easy it is to access the town's financial information. Well, the vast
majority of our residents are unlikely to need that service or to utilize that particular
feature of your website or whatever that might be. So it does make sense that we see 49
percent there, which are basically residents probably telling us, yeah, I could access it, I
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just don't have any interest to.
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But when we get into our next slide here we'll see the forms of communication folks
currently use to get information about the town. It's the Fountain Hill (sic) Times, who I
notice in this room, word of mouth, and then your website, followed by your town
newsletter. We asked this question in two different ways, basically, by asking
respondents to then tell what is your preferred way to find out about information. We see
a little bit of a drop in the Fountain Hill Time. Folks would really rather hear that
information word of -- not word of mouth, but straight from the town's mouth, in our
opinion.
Fountain Hills Facebook is right below that. So again, kind of saying, we want it from
the town, from the source is where we want our information. With word of mouth
dropping to less than one out of four respondents. So again, just to kind of juxtapose
these two charts next to each other. Almost 76 percent indicate they use the Fountain
Hill Times. Almost two-thirds indicate that they use word of mouth. When we go to
preference, the preference items aren't matching with reality. And so we identified some
opportunities or some gaps in our communication and outreach. And so hopefully, Bo
and his team can help close some of those gaps. And hopefully, we'll see less neutral,
more satisfied responses in a couple of years or you know, next few years when we do
our next survey.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Everyone --
MURRAY: Please.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Just to comment. I'm certainly not going to tell a business
how to do their business, but if the Fountain Hills Times could give people -- new
subscribers -- something like six months free, I think it behooves us to get that readership
up based upon these statistics.
MURRAY: Yeah. Yeah. And if you're able to provide news briefings, public releases to
the newspaper, and they're publishing them for you, excellent. You know, because folks
are at a high clip reading it. They want to continue to read that, to be informed. They
don't want to hear everything from your pulpit, but they do want some of that mixed with
local media. So --
MAYOR DICKEY: The Times has a 4:30 news everyday --
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MURRAY: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- online that's free.
MURRAY: Yep.
MAYOR DICKEY: So that's another good way to get that constant communication and
it doesn't cost anything.
MURRAY: Yep. Yep. Any major revamps to a website are always going to come with
some dips in satisfaction in the next survey as people become more well -oriented with the
changed website. But it's really not so much about changing the website, but usually
adding banners. I've done a few focus groups and some surveys specifically on website
redesign. Folks really want the most pertinent items just, like, a newsfeed in your
Facebook, at the very top. So you want to see the most important stuff scrolling at the
top. And we could tie up more conversations about that, but really, it's about ease of
access when it comes to that. And then, you know, your newsletter, if that's being mailed
or emailed, however that's working it seems to be working well and folks want to
continue to receive that. As well as visiting your Facebook, I just thought it was really
pertinent. Less than one out of five -- one out of four -- respondents indicated word of
mouth is a preferred source for that information.
In summary, it can't be overstated, residents have a really positive perception of the
community. It seems like you are really doing the hard work here to understand where
we can focus in to kind of change some of those areas. It's interesting to have a Council
be so engaged in this conversation considering how good the results are. Typically, when
I come and I say, 94 percent of your residents are satisfied with the quality of life in the
community, I feel like everybody zoned out and they're like, hey, we're riding easy, you
know, we're living high here. But you all are engaged. It's great to see this. It should
mean that if you conduct this with, you know, our firm or another firm in a couple years
you should see improvements in key areas as long as you kind of focus on some of the
priority investment areas that we determined from the survey results.
I've got my last slide as questions, but that's really meant for Council. If you have any
additional questions, I'm happy to take them now, or feed them to Bo. If you want me to
help look up something or make sure to present something next Tuesday, I'd be more
than happy to take those as well.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
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VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Well, for those of us who want it, can we get paper copies
of these slides?
MANAGER MILLER: Absolutely. We can also provide the report. I think between the
two, it's about 150 pages. But we'll be happy to --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I just want the slides.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. We'll do that. Mayor, if I may, too. I just wanted to
remind the Council that, yes, we are going to be also having Ryan come back next week.
We're doing a really two -fold. One was for you to get the results here and have the
pollster who oversaw this directly present the findings to the Council. But it's very
important, again, from the transparency standpoint, for the public to see this at a Council
meeting. Because we typically have a greater participation in that, and we may have
some insight from citizens who were there that might want to react to the presentation.
So anyways, Ryan good job, and we look forward to seeing you next week.
MURRAY: Great.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Another question for you. How often do you suggest
towns do this survey?
MURRAY: Yeah. So we have folks from quarterly to yearly to every five years. I
would say every two years is kind of the best way. Governments can only move so
quickly, so it's really best to give yourselves an opportunity to review, create an action
plan, act, and then reach back out to residents. And I think that usually takes about 24
months or 2 years.
MANAGER MILLER: Councilmember, that's a good question, and that's what we had
originally intended because we want to have enough time to make improvements in these
areas. And again, I think the residents will find the value of this. I know I saw some
comments over the weekend about, you know, spending money on this kind of survey.
But I do think what we got is really good, especially the geocoding where we know
where people live generally around the town with some of the areas where we need to
work on. And that's very helpful. Sometimes where I've seen this really help is like if
you have, like, solid waste services and they're not really doing a good job in a particular
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area, you can get down to the route, and you can figure out how to fix and improve that.
Same thing with streets. So I think two years -- every two years is a really good -- may
even be three years. But the point is, this is a baseline, and so we are going to use this to
help target our improvements for the next two to three years.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. We really appreciate it. Mike?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. Just real quick. I think on Tuesday, just to
streamline things, just come in with the 94 percent slide, and then that's --
MURRAY: That's it. That's it.
MAYOR DICKEY: And we're good.
MURRAY: Just give me a mic to drop. Yeah. No. I mean, the results were really
phenomenal. I was really pleased to see what I saw.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
MURRAY: There are some things to work on, but please also keep in mind the design of
the survey was intended to develop priorities like we saw towards the end. So that was
really the whole crux of this thing was to make sure we know where to invest to improve
satisfaction later on. And the only way to do that is to kind of get into the nitty gritty of
where maybe we're not performing where we'd like to be. So.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. You know, talking about how often we're going to do
it -- I know we already brought it up, but we have our Strategic Plan Advisory
Commission. We Fountain Hills Vision which has -- or Vision Fountain Hills, sorry --
that has done -- we, you know, asked the public. We did a parks master plan. We just
did our general plan. And we did a active transportation plan. So and all of these were
done with Zoom meetings at the time and such. And so this is a good piece and part of
all this information that we try to get to keep our community 94, 95 percent happy with
where they live. So thank you very much.
MURRAY: Thank you, Mayor. It was a pleasure.
MAYOR DICKEY: See you next week.
MURRAY: I'll be back next Tuesday. Great.
MAYOR DICKEY: Our next item is -- Grady, do you want to introduce David?
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. Our finance director, David Pock, is going to do the next
presentation. We'll likely go through this presentation and then following any questions,
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we'll then probably take a brief break, and then we'll resume with the next presentation
after David. With that, I'll go ahead and turn it over to David. This is typically one of the
most important aspects of an annual retreat, is that we look at kind of the current
finances, and then how we're pacing for next year.
So with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Pock.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- Council. Is this working? All right. I guess. Okay. I feel like
I've been outnumbered already this morning. There was a lot of numbers in the first
presentation, but I've got some more for you. So sit back, relax, and enjoy. All right. So
we're going to start off looking at the current fiscal year and kind of our progress and
where we're at right now. All of the information that you're going to see is through
December, so half the year.
First, with the General Fund. It's really across the board good news. I would say it's even
better than the 94 percent satisfaction because we're actually -- we've collected more than
we've budgeted to receive.
As far as the sales tax, we've got 6.77 million collected against our 6.47 million budgeted.
That's largely due to a increase in the restaurant bar in the services categories, which is
good to see. That means everything's kind of getting back a little bit to whatever the new
normal is.
As far as the intergovernmental -- our state shared revenues, we've collected 3.36 million
against our 3.3 million that we had budgeted. Our state shared sales taxes is doing a lot
better than what we had originally anticipated. Also, we had slightly reduced state shared
income. That's kind of due to two things, as you know, and we say it every year or every
time that we talk about state shared revenue -- is that the income tax lags by two years, so
the information that we're seeing here is actually from fiscal year '20 taxes that were
collected in'21 and are being remitted to local governments in'22. That also was
affected by the lower population count than what we had prior. The 2020 census came
in, and you'll see that a little bit later as far as some of the graphs. So -- yes?
MAYOR DICKEY: Did the pandemic have anything to do with the 2020 -- was this
anticipated that the income tax would go down?
DIRECTOR POCK: We knew it was going to be a little bit lower, but I'd like to say it
was all based on the population numbers going down a little bit that our share went down.
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We were pretty close as far as the actual number on the sales -- or on the income tax, it
was just the proportionate share that the town received. So total for six months is 11.41
million across those.
All right, then. As far as money going out, these slides are -- or this graph is a little bit
different. Typically, they're all -- the bars are pretty level, but with last year's public
safety expenditures being paid from the CARES Act funding, that reduced the 2021
numbers a little bit. Then, we did a little bit different with the ARPA funding that we
received this year. We're paying 80 percent of the rural metro fire out of ARPA funds,
and then 20 percent out of law enforcement. So you can see that kind of adjustment
there.
As far as overall expenditures -- and it's a little bit tough because these expenditures
aren't really budgeted by month, it's over a whole year -- so we might have, you know,
insurance policies that get paid up at the front of the fiscal year and that kind of thing, so
it doesn't really even out kind of like revenues do.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I ask you something?
DIRECTOR POCK: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: Can I ask why -- I don't remember the discussion that we changed
the split of the ARPA between rural --
DIRECTOR POCK: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- and Maricopa.
DIRECTOR POCK: So in true federal fashion, we didn't have the rules for what the
money could be spent on when they gave us the money. We did see -- in January we
received the final rule from the Department of Treasury, so we know now what we could
spend it on, but back then we made the decision that it needed to be related to COVID-
related expenses. We were trying to stay really safe, and since the fire department
responds to most -- you know, most of their calls are medical -related, and we thought we
could make that argument. But now, with the final rule coming out, we're actually safe
with that. And we do have a later presentation about ARPA as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Because this chart could be something that would look odd
to people --
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
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MAYOR DICKEY: -- and I don't -- that juxtaposition there of law enforcement and
fire --
DIRECTOR POCK: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- versus the year before. So either we've got to put some asterisk$
in there or when we get down to the, you know, end of the year thing to make sure that
that's real clear.
DIRECTOR POCK: Absolutely. And you know, obviously, our cost of those contracts
haven't reduced any. It's just that that portion's being paid out of a different fund. So this
is strictly the General Fund side of the expenditure, so.
As far as all of the other department's divisions, they're all within the projected budgets.
General government, we saw a little bit of a spike in that department this year, and that
was basically just due to the storms. We had about $100,000 worth of storm -related costs
that obviously weren't expected.
Then, we'll take a little bit deeper look into revenues. As far as TPT revenue collections,
across all funds, this is our total TPT revenue. We've got just under 8 million collected.
That's more than what we had budgeted by about 200,000. I did get the January numbers
in after I had -- seems like I always get them right after I've done the presentation or put
together the PowerPoint -- but our January, which is all of the December sales -- typically
our largest collection month is January -- was at 1.7. So we actually have a new high as
far as monthly collections at 1.7.
MAYOR DICKEY: David, is the percentage of budgeted revenue -- that's for that --
DIRECTOR POCK: That particular --
MAYOR DICKEY: -- individual month? Like, not for the whole year. Like, some of
them that looked real good, like 152 percent. It's like the 152 percent, not of the year, but
up until now.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes. Excellent question. That's actually through the first six
months of the fiscal year. Our budget for those first six months. So anything over 100
percent, we're ahead of schedule. Anything less, we're falling a little behind. So you can
see in construction, that's the case there. We are slightly under what we had budgeted for
construction. Construction's obviously a very volatile category, so.
Utilities and communication. I remember this last year because it was -- we were looking
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at it being a little bit more than what we were used to. As people start returning to work,
we're assuming that they're not maybe renewing their Zoom subscriptions and that kind
of thing. So that's starting to fall just a little. But we're still doing more than we had
budgeted.
Wholesale retail is obviously our largest category and by far most of the revenue that the
town receives, and we're right at 96 percent of our budget for the first six months with
just 4.3 million collected.
Real estate is all the long-term residential rentals. This is the 1.6 percent rate for the
town for basically residential rentals longer than 30 days. That's pretty stable, and we are
just under 100 percent -- or 87 percent for that.
Restaurants and bars. You can see, this was one that I mentioned earlier, along with
services, which is next. Really driven by the economy and people actually getting out,
going out to dinner, going to play a round of golf, going and renting an Airbnb or
something -- that all falls within the services category. So you can see those are doing
really well.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: If this continues at the present rate -- which is a big "if' --
we should be pretty flush. There's no way to project what it would look like at the end of
the year if continued at this rate, would it?
DIRECTOR POCK: You're ahead of me a few slides, so yes, I do have some projected
fund balance numbers at the end. And then as far as being flush, we can discuss that in
the next presentation, fiscal year '23, because it might not be quite as rosy.
All right. So each of the state shared revenues. The sales tax, you can see that it's
increased year over year. We've got 1.6 million collected, about 8 percent more than
what we had budgeted. And about $200,000 overall for the six months for the first part
of the fiscal year.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Question, David.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: We've been hearing for years now how state shared
revenue was going to go like this --
MAYOR DICKEY: Let's wait until his next slide.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Oh. Is that the -- is that the next slide? Because, every
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year --
MAYOR DICKEY: Well --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- because every year we're told it's going to go down.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: And given the population explosion in other towns and us
being stable, you would expect it to go down. Is that the next slide?
MAYOR DICKEY: The next presentation.
DIRECTOR POCK: No. But you did bring up -- kind of one of the mitigating factors is
that there has been a lot of people move into the state, which obviously means more sales
tax, more income tax being collected, that sort of thing. Some of these numbers are --
you know, the overall numbers are calculated on the county or -- like HURF revenues,
for example. All gas sales within the county are then aggregated and then divided out by
population. So even though we might not be growing here in Fountain Hills, the overall
number of the county or the state, in the case with the income tax, that number's getting
higher. So we can be thankful for that. At least the numbers are getting larger. Our
percentage might be getting smaller --
MAYOR DICKEY: Right.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- but the overall numbers are getting --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: And you are, I think, that on another slide you're going to
be showing what you expect in the future for that; is that correct?
MAYOR DICKEY: Grady?
MANAGER MILLER: Just another way to look at it is the pie is growing, but our slice
is actually getting smaller because of basically, it's formula -driven and the cities that
recently with the census had big gains, they were able to get slightly larger slices of the
pie while ours shrunk a little bit. But then the aggregate has actually been growing.
There's going to be some issues, potentially, I think that he's going to go into having to
do with the state share of revenue for income tax because of the pandemic impact.
DIRECTOR POCK: And so there's the next slide. Usually, typically, the boringest slide
of the whole presentation because it's just a line going straight across -- we did have a dip
this year, as I mentioned, because the census numbers did come out in August, and so
our -- I think our population -- I forgot what the actual number is -- is just under 24,000.
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So that reduced our numbers just a little bit. So just jazzing up this slide. But yes, 1.6
collected here as well. We had budgeted 1.64.
And then vehicle license tax. Personally, I think this is better than I was expecting,
considering, you know, if you've watched the news and you've seen, like the availability
of new cars or if you tried to go buy a new car, that there aren't maybe as many on the
lots as there used to be. That just would decrease the VLT that's collected at registration,
but we're still doing pretty well. 550,000 has been collected. We budgeted for 584. It's
47,000 overall for the first six months than last year.
MAYOR DICKEY: So relatively speaking, you know, the amount's not that great, but
why is there such a variance in all these lines every year? Just you know, how do you
explain that? Like, especially, like, looking at 2018 -- that one was really bizarre.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yeah. Kind of like construction, you know, it's just going to be a
volatile category. Like I said, I was assuming this one to be one of the hardest hit ones
this year just because, typically, new car sales, you know, higher values on the car, more
VLTs paid, and then as cars get older that, you know, gets lower and lower and lower.
So yeah, I guess it's probably just luck of the draw as far VLT goes.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR POCK: Any other questions? Next is HURF, which we talked about just a
little bit. So people might be driving the same cars but at least they're starting to drive
them maybe a little bit more. The HURF revenues actually did just start to increase a
little bit in December. I don't have January's in front of me right now. But it's good to
see that people are moving around. So that's good.
Then, as far as all the other types of revenues that we've got -- licenses and permits,
obviously, make up the most of it. We've collected just over $1,000,000. That's 127
percent more than what we had budgeted. Leases and rents right on track. Fines and
forfeitures are down a little bit, but again, you know, there's still half a year to go, so who
knows?
Charges for services are way down. I was thinking about this and why that might be,
thinking that it was the first six months of the year. Maybe, you know, we've still got
quite a bit of our busy season. We're coming into the special event season for Rachael's
department, so you know, we could see some big increases there for the last half of the
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year.
And then the other category is interest and just some kind of the smaller revenues all
rolled up there.
Now, as far as fund balances. This comes with the caveat every year that they're subject
to change. My crystal ball might not be as clear these days because there's quite a bit -- a
few things going on as far as the economy goes, but this is my best shot.
So we'll start with restricted funds. As you know, these are funds that are restricted by
forces outside of the town. So HURF revenues can only be spent on streets. Expecting
to end the year in the Streets Fund with about 1.5 million.
The next few funds, the General Obligation Debt Service Fund -- MPC, Eagle
Mountain -- those are all our debt service funds, but we don't have any debt. So that's
money that's just kind of holding out there, earning what little interest there is to be
earned on that. But we won't see much change as far as those fund balances go.
Cottonwood maintenance district went down a little bit over the year just because we
were doing some of the maintenance and the painting that was required there.
The next three funds are the Development Fee Funds, and they're steadily growing.
Streets Development Fund was one that we had just added, so you can see that that
balance is coming together. And then Parks rounding it out at 1.2.
So total restricted revenue is just about 3.6 million.
Committed Funds are restricted by Town Council. It can be reversed; it can change, but
this is based on your decisions.
Rainy Day Fund, you can see that by the end of the year it's going to be increasing to
about 3.9. That's all formula -driven based on our policy, and it's based on the last five
years' average General Fund revenues.
Capital Projects Fund actually is going to be in pretty good shape. We just transferred
about 3.5 million from the General Fund where we had excess revenues over
expenditures from last year, so that's going to add to that fund balance for the end of the
year.
And then, Downtown Strategy Economic Development, Tourism, Public Art, and then
Court Enhancement -- all those stay relatively stable.
MAYOR DICKEY: David?
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DIRECTOR POCK: Yes?
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MAYOR DICKEY: The Downtown and Economic Development and the Tourism
Fund -- the use that we can use those, obviously, is like you said, they were imposed by
Council action and can't be changed, but there is some overlap there. Would you agree
with that? As far as using -- Downtown Strategy is more of a location -driven, right?
And then --
MANAGER MILLER: That's correct. In fact, we have funded projects -- the original
Linear Park that was paid from those funds, the roundabout also came out of that fund as
well.
MAYOR DICKEY: And then Economic Development is more of a general all
throughout the town, and also the Tourism? We can use that any -- we can use that for
that purpose, but doesn't have to be in a particular location.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: But we've been using that to fund those operations, correct?
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah. Remind me, what's the Public Art Fund for?
MANAGER MILLER: So that is the fee that -- the Council has a public art fee that is
collected on residential and commercial -- I'm sorry, it's collected on commercial
development --
MAYOR DICKEY: And multifamily.
MANAGER MILLER: -- and multifamily.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Oh, that's income, okay.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. The next category is the Assigned Funds. And that's
basically dictated by policies that have been adopted.
Environmental Fund. We did have a $500,000 transfer into the Environmental Fund this
year from the General Fund. As you know, we don't have the environmental fee
anymore, so the only way that this fund gets funded is by transfers.
The next one does have an asterisks, and that is the Facilities Reserve Fund, showing that
6.1 million will be in that fund at the end of the fiscal year. The reason why this number
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is so large is we had transferred the General Fund savings, as a result of the ARPA funds,
into this fund so that we could keep it separate. It also allowed us to invest that money
with our investment advisors, PFM, to try and get a little bit more earnings on that until
Council directed what we were going to use those funds for. There's also $1,000,000 in
that fund that's strictly reserved for the Fountain Project when that comes up.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Question. A question I asked a few weeks ago, a few
meetings ago. Am I correct in presuming that some of that 6.1 million might be used for
the liner?
DIRECTOR POCK: That is the 1 million that is reserved for the Fountain Project, is
strictly set aside for that project.
VICE MAYORVICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: And how much are we spending this year
and projected for next year on roads?
DIRECTOR POCK: I think our pavement maintenance line item this year is right around
3.9, 3.89. I got my answer --
MANAGER MILLER: We also have an agenda item that we're going to get into that a
little bit later to talk about the ARPA money being used for streets.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: About what money?
MAYOR DICKEY: ARPA.
MANAGER MILLER: ARPA. So right now, what the Finance Director was saying is,
we parked it in this account because we can get higher interest earnings on it, but it's just
a holding place.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Well, I'll raise the same issue I raised before, and we
certainly can't make a decision on it today, but we saw the results of the survey. Roads
are at the top of the list concerns by people, and I would hate to park money in places like
the Facilities Reserve Fund for things like the liner or other things that we don't think are
going to happen. I'd rather add them to the 3.9 million -- well, that's this year -- 3.9
million for roads. I think we should do whatever we can to improve our roads without
putting us in a difficult position.
MANAGER MILLER: I think we're all in agreement here. We're taking, actually, an
item for you to discuss, and then based on the direction today, we'll be able to hopefully
make that happen. The liner is appropriate for the Facilities Reserve because the
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Facilities Reserve -- we sought Council direction last year and the Council decided to
create a Sinking Fund, so that is going into that Facilities Reserve specifically for the lake
liner.
The ARPA money is just being parked there just for interest, and assuming Council gives
us the direction today on a later agenda item, we'll be able to put that money into the
Streets Fund next year.
MAYOR DICKEY: It's on the agenda.
MANAGER MILLER: It's kind of -- I think what you're kind of leaning towards.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I'm sorry? You're saying it would be transferred to the
Streets Fund?
MANAGER MILLER: Which then could be used for streets projects.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: We have an agenda item that's going to thoroughly discuss this, and
then we can figure out where we want to put it. This is just sort of an accounting right
now that we're hearing.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah. I understand. But I thought we had also discussed
the possibility --
MAYOR DICKEY: We did.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- of the liner being paid for with bonds. So we can get
into that another time, I guess.
MAYOR DICKEY: Sweet home.
SPELICH: I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the Vice Mayor.
I think it's absolutely imperative that -- we all know in this room, based on the study, that
at some point in time, that liner's going to fail. And even though I'm not going to be on
the Council -- thank God -- I would hate to burden another Mayor and another Council
with that price tag coming down the road, which is going to be astronomical. I am well
aware that the streets are in need of repair. I know that's what the survey says and
everything -- we're all aware of that. We also talked about the possibility of having a
future -- help me with the word -- bond or -- I just think it's absolutely imperative we
stick to what we say we were going to do. We are going to put away money for
inevitability of when that does fail so that other councils moving forward and everything
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don't have to try to solve that issue. So that's --
MANAGER MILLER: I think what you heard was exactly the same thing. We're on the
same page. We started a Sinking Fund last year. It's got $1,000,000 just for the liner.
We're going to continue to do that again for next year. We're trying to buy down -- use
like a down payment so we wouldn't have to bond for quite as much.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I know we're on the same page. I just don't know if --
MANAGER MILLER: Oh, okay. Sorry.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- if the -- I agree with you. You and I are on the same
page. I just don't know if the Vice Mayor is aware that we're going to keep the money in
there.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman Scharnow?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yes. Thank you, Mayor. No, I think either all of
us or a big majority of us did agree to start that Sinking Fund and start saving for the
liner, so.
MAYOR DICKEY: Like you said, we'll talk about it more when we get to that item, but
I think that there's enough here to put aside and to spend immediately on roads also.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yeah. And I just wanted to make one comment, going back to the
original question with the 3.9 being in pavement maintenance -- that that is $2,000,000
more than what was originally budgeted because we had $2,000,000 in CARES Act
savings that we transferred into that category. So we are on that road to more pavement
maintenance.
You can see Technology Replacement Fund. That was a new fund, and we're just
starting to -- we're funding that through internal service fees to each department, but it's
starting to grow, but we're also having some good expenditures from there as well.
Vehicle Replacement is steady at 1.3.
Then, the Unassigned Fund, which is basically just a portion of the General Fund, is
expected to end the year at around 9.2. That will come into context a little bit more on
this slide. So this is just each of those categories and their totals. Total overall fund
balance across all funds at the end of the fiscal year is $30.4 million. Those stability
metrics are something that we just started doing with the new financial policies. You can
see our five-year average there for General Fund revenues is increasing. It's basically up
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$1,000,000 from the year prior.
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And then the next line, unassigned balances a percentage of average revenues. We're
going to be around 45 percent -- or were at 45 percent as of December 31 st. That means
that we basically almost our reserves -- or our Unassigned Fund balance has about half a
year of revenues accumulated. So that next line is the number of months, so 5.4 months
is where we're at.
MAYOR DICKEY: David, the unassigned budgeted balance does not include the Rainy
Day Fund?
DIRECTOR POCK: No.
MAYOR DICKEY: So we've got the Rainy Day Fund in Restricted, and then we've got
this as -- but part of this now, is that capital projects or other things that just didn't get in
on the particular fiscal year? Like, help explain why there's a $9 million Unassigned
Budgeted Fund balance.
DIRECTOR POCK: Okay. So that's basically savings -- maybe either we didn't spend as
much as was budgeted, which has happened every year that I've been here -- and
revenues -- we've actually collected more. So that difference adds to fund balance. This
is as of December 31 st, so we're on our way to also having an -- I don't want to say
excess -- additional savings at the end of the fiscal year that would transfer to the Capital
Projects Fund. There --
MAYOR DICKEY: That's kind of what I wanted to ask. So if we're going to transfer --
it looked like we were going to have a capital budget balance of 4-something million.
DIRECTOR POCK: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: So this isn't all going to that, then? There's some of this -- that's
because it's unassigned but it's budgeted. That's a little bit confusing, so I was hoping I
could see the difference between that 4 million, which is actually the total. So it's at less
that's actually going into Capital, correct?
DIRECTOR POCK: Well, for the Capital Fund, part of that 3.4 is the -- 4.4 -- is the 3.5
that we transferred from last year's -- fiscal year '21 revenues over expenses -- the savings
in the General Fund got transferred to the Capital Projects Fund. So the 9 million that
you see in Unassigned, that doesn't include any Capital Projects Funds at all. All of those
would be up in the Committed section and that 9.5 -- sorry, 9.5 up there.
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MAYOR DICKEY: So it shows up as a -- where at the beginning of the fiscal year?
DIRECTOR POCK: So our fund balance at the end of the year rolls over for beginning
fund balance the next year. We don't make our transfer until after the audit of that year
that just finished so that we know exactly what the audited numbers are so that we can
make the determinations on what transfers need to be made into the Capital Projects
Fund. So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh.
DIRECTOR POCK: So as of -- you can see the 6.9 million as of December 31 st. That
includes the 3.5 that was transferred, plus, obviously, Capital Projects expenditures --
MAYOR DICKEY: Um -hum.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- going out. The 9.5 at the end of the year wouldn't include any
transfers that are going to happen in fiscal year'23 yet, though. Does that --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. I just -- the definition of unassigned budgeted fund being that
high I think is something that is always a hard thing to understand. And I'm still not
there.
DIRECTOR POCK: Right. Well, some of that -- so about 4 million -- well it's 3.9 --
would be according to policy where we're keeping 20 percent -- of the five-year annual
revenues as unassigned as kind of our cushion. That was because of policy. So then,
you're down to about 5 million. That doesn't mean -- if we spent everything that we
budgeted for for the current year and our revenues stayed the same and came in at
budgeted numbers, then we'd have that 9 million going forward. But we're going to add
to that. So it's actually going to be -- I don't want to say it's going to be larger, but I
mean, it absolutely could be larger. This is a -- yeah. Just because we budget for more
than what we actually spend. And then, our revenues, we take a pretty conservative
approach on that. We are getting closer to refining that model to where it's more in line
with what's expected. But we're always going to have -- I shouldn't say always -- we
anticipate having more revenues than what we budgeted and less expenditures than what
we budgeted. So then that difference is what adds to the fund balance.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR POCK: And then that's where we have the discussions towards -- you
know, when we start talking about transfers of that excess that we want to fund the
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Environmental Fund again with another, you know, our Facilities Reserve and that sort of
thing.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: David?
DIRECTOR POCK: Yeah?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Can I ask you a quick question on your stability
metrics? That 5.4 number of months average revenue. Is that like a benchmark? Is that
where we want to be? Do we want to be higher?
DIRECTOR POCK: Right now as far as -- the typical number is 30 percent. So we're
actually above that for right now. Again, going to my next presentation, I'm fine with 45
in there, so. That's what I'm -- there's a lot of stuff that are starting to shake lose, as
everybody knows, as far as the market, inflation, investments. I think it's safe. Other
questions?
All right. Talk amongst yourselves.
MANAGER MILLER: When he's done with this one, then we'll make a break before the
Capital Presentation.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. So here we go. Everything starts off with assumptions
and a whole bunch of asterisks, but this is kind of our best shot at this point. Everything's
assuming that we're maintaining our level of service; we're not cutting any programs.
There's a slight increase in the TPT restaurant and bar service categories that was
included. There's also a modest increase in the income tax just because we know that
we're going to be looking at'21 income tax returns and it should be a little better than'20.
We do have the downward pressure, as far as the population, so like I said, I'm just
hoping that the bigger number -- the overall number gets bigger, even though our slice is
a little smaller.
Development services revenue includes continued activity in Adero Canyon, and then as
well as the new addition at the Fountain Hills Hospital. The 3.0 percent increase in the
rural metro contract's in the contract, so we know what that one is. We actually received
the MCSO numbers on Friday, I believe, so I've included those and updated the slides
with those.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I'm sorry. David, just benchmark. How does that 6
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percent increase compare with the last couple of years? If you don't have it at your
fingertips, it's okay.
MANAGER MILLER: It's lower, although we had a trend -- actually, was it last year
where it was a much smaller number, or was it the year before? I --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I thought it was like 3 percent, or something.
MAYOR DICKEY: At first it was 10, then it was 3.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: So we're way down, yeah.
MANAGER MILLER: Right. I mean, we had been in like, in the double digits, and then
we had one year where it was like just a marginal amount, like 2 percent, or something
like that.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Was that related to paying off the debt for retirement?
MANAGER MILLER: The Underfunded Retirement System.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: That was part of their increase, and then they also assessed a
administrative fee on top of that to recover some of their, like, IT and other charges. So
but this is actually -- we had programed, I think 10 percent, right, David?
MAYOR DICKEY: I think at that point, too, the discussion was it was a 7 percent over
several years, because it had --
MANAGER MILLER: Absolutely.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- really changed a lot. So I think --
MANAGER MILLER: I think over the course of ten years, it was close to --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah.
MANAGER MILLER: -- an average of 7 percent.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, 7. Oh, sorry, Councilman.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I hope it's the intention of
the Town Manager, the Director of Finance, as well as the Mayor and the Council, that
we're not going to enter into a new contract with MCSO until the audit has been
completed and we know exactly where we stand with the numbers coming from the audit
versus -- because, I have heartburn with 6 percent without knowing that number.
MANAGER MILLER: So just to respond to that --so basically, we met them three
weeks ago, and they are supposed to get back to us and we're supposed to meet again.
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But I will tell you we did find that there was a flaw in one of the assessments or one of
the areas, and that was detectives. So I just -- without getting into the detail here today, I
did want to let you know that they are going over our assumptions that led to the numbers
that we've reviewed. And so we will be getting together with them very shortly to go
over what they believed the numbers to be. And what I think we're going to end up doing
is we're going to end up probably having to do an extension of our current agreement
while we kind of hash out a new agreement.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: And also we're doing the assessment of both fire and police. That
should be April? May? So that'll help a lot, too.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. One final note as far as assumptions go that all of the
departmental supplements that have be presented to the town manager are not included in
any of these numbers. So those decisions to be made, and those will come in the
proposed budget when we have that meeting.
All right. So now the not -so -bright news, and it just gets better day by day. January
inflation numbers came in annualized at 7.5 percent. As most of you know, if you've
been watching the news, everybody loves to say that that's the highest it's been since
1982. It doesn't look like it's going down before we get the February numbers, so we'll
just wait and see.
Current U.S. unemployment published numbers 4 percent. Based on those two numbers,
since those are the two numbers that are supposed -- oh, sorry -- that drive federal
monetary policy, the Federal Reserve's expected to begin raising interest rates starting
with their next meeting in March.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: David?
DIRECTOR POCK: We've got ten more opportunities to raise rates and it's becoming
more and more clear that they can raise rates up to seven times before the end of the year.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Question, David?
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Presuming that there is a war in Ukraine -- a full war --
what I hear is that inflation here is likely to climb quite a bit. So I guess I'm stating the
obvious, so as we put the budget together -- well, we should know by then, I would think.
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DIRECTOR POCK: So you know, when we do the budget, we basically do what we
expect it to be without outside influence, right? We didn't increase our budget numbers
by 7 1/2 percent; we didn't inflate them any. We kept them the same for the most part.
There were some changes; some things increased. This goes towards that reserves that --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Exactly.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- why I was saying it's a good time to have a little extra money.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: So it's assumption that the rates -- that the inflation rate
goes up, you park some money in reserve to protect against that eventuality, as you say.
MANAGER MILLER: And to the Vice Mayor's point, too, petroleum prices are
hovering around $100 a barrel, so gasoline prices, you know, drives everything. So
everything from trucking, shipping, all that, which all then affects consumer prices and
everything we pay for. So that is right, because the jitter's going on right now with the
markets.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. So as you can tell, or probably read already, the higher
interest rates could possibly result in a recession. That's obviously going to slow down
economic activity locally. And this goes back to the restaurant and bar categories and the
services categories that we've made some progress on are particularly vulnerable to those
types of economic downturns. Our base is fairly stable with retail sales and the types of
businesses that we have in town, so. But it would cause a reduction in our TPT, so.
One of the interesting metrics that we did get out of the GFOA conference this year, is
that Arizona's population was actually number four in the country as far as growth. We
are behind Idaho, Utah and Montana. That goes back to what the Vice Mayor and I were
discussing just a little while ago, that with those increased populations, increased income
tax, increased home prices, increased just about everything. So it's definitely an
interesting time.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Why would there be increased home prices?
DIRECTOR POCK: Just because there's high demand, low supply. Our housing
markets -- if you've looked at your home value recently, you know that --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- I think it raised up over 20 percent or something.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I understand. But if inflation rears its ugly head and goes
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up seven times?
DIRECTOR POCK: Then people can't afford them.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Right. So there won't be as much --
DIRECTOR POCK: They won't be able to afford the mortgage, right? Because of the
interest rates. So yeah, you don't see a lot of movement when that happens, so they
become unaffordable. But definitely, over this past year with Arizona growing and more
people moving in, a lot of money's come into the state.
As far as Arizona goes, our unemployment rates, according to the League update, I
believe, or it might have been the investment update, the employment rate's back to pre -
pandemic levels. That's good news all around.
All right. So as far as what's expected for next year. Our construction's pretty stable.
Again, the utilities go down somewhat as far as the projected numbers. Wholesale, retail
comes up to almost $10 million. Restaurant and bar -- this is excluding any external type
factors -- we expect to see a slightly more of that category. Real estate's stable. Our
long-term rentals in the town are pretty good base. And then our services, obviously
increasing as well. And these are all based off of the ten-year trend, prior numbers,
historical numbers, and then going forwards.
MAYOR DICKEY: Where do the hospitality -- the hotels go in on that?
DIRECTOR POCK: That's in Services.
MAYOR DICKEY: In Services, okay.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: If I could just -- you know, when we had COVID and we
talked about what is likely to happen in a lot of these categories, we decided to reduce our
expectations quite a bit. As we go forward, given inflation and given rates going up,
possibly going up significantly -- I'm stating the obvious -- I think we have to be very,
very careful about what we budget. We should have some sense as to what's going to
happen by the time we approve a budget, but I don't see things getting better. I'm
anticipating things getting worse like they did with COVID.
DIRECTOR POCK: I agree. And a lot of that is taken into account and kind of tempers
expectations somewhat. In the case with TPT, like I said, restaurant and bar services are
going to take a big hit in a recession. As far as the wholesale retail, inflation is actually
going to cause our TPT expectations to rise. If inflation rate is 7 1/2 percent, that raises
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the cost of the products, but then they're charged a 2.9 percent TPT rate on that. But then
there's a breaking point. If people don't have the money to spend, then it doesn't matter.
2.9 percent of zero is still zero, so.
All right. As far as overall with TPT, state shared revenues, permits, licenses, charges for
services, we're looking at just about 23.2 million in revenues for next year. So about
$600,000 more than our current year.
As far as expenditures, these are the numbers that we've got kind of as our base that we'll
be working on to build the proposed budget from. Again, there's about $600,000 more.
The red asterisks is excluding contingency -- and we've had this conversation each year
as well -- General Fund is required to be balanced. So if we're expecting -- our revenues
are obviously what drives this -- if we're expecting our revenues to be $23,000,000 but
we only have 19 million budgeted in General Fund, then we make up that difference with
Contingency. So it's basically just a holding account plug number, if you will. So for
next year, yeah, 19.2 million in expected expenditures.
Our FTE slide -- we added a few positions this current year. Just kind of shows you the
trend. The famous slide, the slide that -- every year that I do this, I wish that I had a
better way of doing this, and we're working on it, but at this point, there's no better way.
So we've got a revenue increase basically built out into the future with a 1 percent
increase, keeping it nice and moderate. But then, I think -- I can't remember what
percentage -- I think I upped it to like 3 percent or something -- inflation for
expenditures. Could you imagine what this slide would look like if I put 7.5 percent in?
It's obviously not going to stay 7.5 year over year, hopefully, but anyways. So this slide
is always going to show us lower revenues in those future years than expenditures. But
most importantly is that next year for fiscal year'23 we are showing that we've got more
revenues than expenditures for next year.
So then we've already talked about most of this. Obviously, the increased pressure on the
Fed to address inflation, possible recessions. Our core sales tax categories are relatively
stable. Restaurant, bar and services are going to be the areas to watch. Arizona
communities are growing at a faster pace, but that's obviously going to result in our
smaller share. Hopefully, the overall numbers keep getting bigger.
There are fewer development opportunities in town. It's not a surprise; we just don't have
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the land or the opportunities to build on that land, so. And then, of course, cost of
maintaining the town's infrastructure -- the streets, the buildings, that continues to
increase.
The good side of the coin, we still managed to get budget savings each year out of
General Fund. We collect more revenues and we spend less, you know, than budgeted on
expenditures. We've got a relatively stable TPT base overall. We are increasing the
number of hotel rooms available in the town. That's a good category because not only is
the base rate, but we also have the bed tax for those short-term rentals. Hotels and short-
term rentals actually make up about 57 percent of that Services category. And then of
course, federal stimulus has obviously relieved some of the pressure on immediate
infrastructure needs. It's a debate or not how that's affecting the inflation rates, but that's
personal opinions to be had, I guess. And that's it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. A couple things in the headwind category, unfortunately,
seemed to be the legislative agenda this year, which has several bills that will affect our
ability to collect sales tax on certain items, automobiles, building materials, a couple
other things I can't think of right now, but they could affect one of the things that's the
strongest supporter for Fountain Hills because, like you were saying, we don't have a lot
of the opportunities that maybe some of other cities around us do, which also points out
the importance of our regional position in the Valley. One of the -- one of the things
from the past that I'm glad is gone, is that there used to be so much parochialism, you
know -- well, are you in Scottsdale? Are you in Tempe? Wherever, you know, you're
getting all the taxes, but this whole regional approach is really the best way for Fountain
Hills to have a position here of strength. Because again, if our slice is getting smaller, we
want that pie bigger, and we're in that pie. But I think we also need to be aware of those
legislative changes, because some of them could be quite devastating. You know, we
look at the construction sales tax and if they start to say it has to be point -of -sale, we're in
big trouble. So just keep that in mind. Yes, sir?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Just one question, David. We're on track to get about
$1,000,000 a year in internet sales tax. Are we still in that range? Are we doing better?
DIRECTOR POCK: So I think -- I think it was -- yeah, like 1.3, 1.4. So 1.5 and overall
utilities, transportation and communications, it would be part of that. I'm not sure if it
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would be two-thirds of that or not -- or a third. As far as like -- are you talking about,
like, online subscriptions and that kind of stuff?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Amazon and all the other.
DIRECTOR POCK: Okay. So from the retail --
[CROSS TALK]
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: So when that law first got enacted, we picked up
$500,000 in one year -- I think it was right around the mid -mark --
DIRECTOR POCK: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: -- of the year.
DIRECTOR POCK: We can go back and look. As part of that deal -- and they do this --
unfortunately, each of these categories has many different classifications in them. Online
sales used to be its own code that they would report under and now, it's just rolled up into
the general retail and wholesale, and I can't specifically say, oh, well, Amazon, we got
this much from them. But I can aggregate some of the larger ones. I'm surprised at the
number of online websites when I just kind of go through the report. There's a lot -- I
mean, a lot of online sales listed.
MAYOR DICKEY: So that's the line item that's actually closer to 10 million?
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes. That would be part of that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR POCK: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. How about ten minutes? We'll see everybody back in ten.
[RECESS]
MANAGER MILLER: Justin, do you guys have your presentation loaded up?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Yes, sir, we do.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. So we're moving on now to Capital.
You're on.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Okay. So the second half of our budget conversation we just
heard about (audio interference) start with our current projects and then we will look at
the proposed projects for the next fiscal year. So in front of you, you have where we are
right now with the current projects. We have one completed, which is the skate park
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lights and the mini pitch over at Desert Vista Park. The rest of them are in process. They
were all at different stages of their progress. The surveillance cameras -- Justin, where is
that one, do you know? Okay.
The Four Peaks Park improvements are underway. We've already completed the gaming
tables and some of the improvements there. So that one's in progress. The splash park is
very well underway. We are on target to reopen that this spring. Sun Ridge Park is on
pause right now. I think a number of you guys were up to speed on that. We'll be talking
about that one later. Four Peaks Park parking lot is also underway, we're at 95 percent
design. So we should be completing that this spring. The Linear Park, we'll be replacing
the event receptacles. Those are the outlets. Those are also underway.
Will we be tackling that this spring, do you think, Justin?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Correct.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: The Fountain Park [LAUGHTER]. Yes. The Fountain Park
playground is also underway. That will be -- that one is also scheduled to be completed
later this spring. So be excited for that one. And then the turf improvements is an
ongoing. That one has -- it's first efforts were done this fall, we'll be completing those
efforts later this spring, as well, and then looking for the second half of next year. So
those are all the current projects right now.
Looking forward, we have a number of projects to propose for consideration and
discussion today. The first is the completion of the ball field shade structures at Golden
Eagle. It's a -- proposed at 150,000. It would complete the shade structures that are
there. A number of them were redone as part of the overall park improvement. We need
to complete those. There's a number -- there's two shade structures needed down in the
primary ball fields, at Fields 2, 3, and 4. There are none up on Field 1. We'd like to
complete all of those next year.
The sports field lighting at Golden Eagle. This is a big number. If you've been watching
any of our budgetary stuff over the last few years, this project has been identified in the
CIP for, at least the four years. It's been pushed out. Knowing that we -- it's a -- it's a
big number and a big project to tackle, we are at a point where we're spending, roughly,
$25,000 annually just on maintenance for what we have currently. At some point, we
need to upgrade to an LED system at Golden Eagle.
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VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Question?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Yes, sir?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Correct my arithmetic on this, but you got two -and -a -half
million dollars, currently spending $25,000. Is that 25 year payout?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So the 25,000 is just where we are today. That number is
expected to go up. Each year those get older, the more maintenance they require. We
had several failures this year and again, they're surpassed their life expectancy. So that
maintenance number is going to keep going up.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Well --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: For the 2.5 million, the 20 -- to replace them, they will have a
return on investment within their warranty period. So we will pay -- they will pay for
themselves within their warranty time.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Is there more about that?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: And it's -- if I may, it's a very long warranty. You want to
explain the warranty period on it?
MANAGER MILLER: Yes. Kevin, I want to say it's 20 -- 20 years. It's a 20-year
warranty if -- when we replace them. The lights that are there now are not under
warranty any longer. So the effort here is to put in newer -- newer lights that use less
energy that have a quicker return on investment than standard lights do.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I guess, I would have to be convinced. You got two and a
half million, let's say it went from 25 -- current spending, 25,000 to 30,000 -- because
you said it's going to go up -- we're still talking over 20 years. 20 year at 30,000 apiece --
over 20 years. And I'm just wondering why we would lay out $2.5 million today.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN It won't be 30,000. Every time -- they're expected to take up to
60,000 next year, based -- just based on the replacement cost with all of the lights. So
think about each of the banks up there have 20 to 25 lights -- light bulbs in them. Several
are already out. We haven't replaced them yet because we're trying to figure out if we
can make this -- if we can make this improvement and not spend that money. If we don't
and we -- and we continue the maintenance, that number will go up significantly.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: From 25,000 to 60 is quite a jump. Can we get, in the
future, some more specific information as to how you --
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DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We can --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- excuse me, as to how you get the 60,000?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That's an expected number, but we can certainly give you
the -- there's a budget -- in the budget book, there's more information, right?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: It's in -- okay.
So this is just a slide but we can certainly share that information with you of -- to when
and how. The biggest concern we have right now is that we aren't under warranty. So if
something catastrophic does happen, we don't have a recourse. And they also aren't -- so
like --Kevin, this is a question for you -- they don't manufacture -- or how difficult is it to
get parts with the existing lights that we have now? Do you know?
SNIPES: That's certainly something that's coming up and continuing because of the
amount of highlighting and going into LED. The biggest factor for the 25 -- 20 to 25-
year payout on the new lights will be that they're -- the energy cost drops substantially.
Our ability -- we can run them at even a lesser -- they have three dimming capabilities.
So when we're doing maintenance on the fields late at night, we'll be able to run them at
the lower light level, which will be less impactful on the residential areas around the
park. We get a lot of complaints on the lights that we have now because they look like
the ones that are on the right, versus the ones that are on the left, where you can see
refraction of the light is much, much better with the LED.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I --
SNIPES: It would also reduce that, but I think it was 18 years on that. I don't remember
that for sure. But --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Return on investment?
SNIPES: Return on investment was at 18 and a half.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I just want to make sure this isn't a nice -to -have item.
And I'm hearing -- and I'm -- I don't blame you because we're not going into depth, a lot
of generalizations. And I'd like to see an analysis of this.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We can certainly provide that. Oh yes, there's a CIP
workshop next month. We can certainly have that ready for you.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I can't be there. [LAUGHTER] I'm not going to be there.
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DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Oh. The one thing that also is the concern, and this is why it
is put in the budget, is that that 2.5 number is going to continue to rise as well. So it's a
matter of when do we want to make that investment. When is it most cost effective for
us. No different than, you know, inflation and everything else going up.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: This is not a criticism. I'm hearing a lot of suppositions.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Um -hum.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: And I really would like to see an analysis to help us make
the decision on this.
MANAGER MILLER: We'll provide that definitely. Another thing to keep in mind, that
these are really approaching the end of their useful life. So that's a key, as well. Just like
you would eventually replace a roof or something like that, these actually have an
absolute limit on their useful life. We will definitely do that as part of the presentation
we do here on the capital for next month. So thank you for raising those questions.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, just curious, being a Dark Sky guy, I'm kind
of surprised Alan, you're not all for this. But anyway.
[LAUGHTER]
MANAGER MILLER: They're an exception.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, sure. Do we need new poles and
everything. Is this 2.5 everything, all at once, like this year, or are we going to phase this
in and -- I'm just wondering how -- I mean, are you looking for the 2.5 right now, or --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Ideally, we would do it over two fiscals so that it -- we could
overtake it over a summer window if -- again, we would have to work with Musco
because there is a -- there is a sourcing process that has to be done, there has to be. So
ideally, if we could break it over two fiscal years so that way we started it one and
finished it in the next, that may be an option for us.
And then it would be matter of if it -- if we had the tentative yes, then we want to look
forward into moving towards this, we could work with Musco to figure that out and how
we could break it over two fiscals. There is a lot of replacement pieces that would have
to happen. The lights out there are just simply that old and that outdated. And so we
would work with them to do that.
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COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Well, when you say two fiscal years, you mean,
maybe starting in May or June and then carrying it, right? I mean, --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah, exactly.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: And I'm sure it's more expensive to have them
come out twice, rather than once.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Exactly.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: So that's --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Well, we would want to mobilize something like this over a --
our slowest time period, which is generally the summer time there.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Right. Um -hum.
MANAGER MILLER: To Rachael's point, she's talking about budgeting two fiscal
years, but it'd be one contract that would cover the two fiscal years.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: You are very astute at finding money
[LAUGHTER] outside sources, like the mini pitch, et cetera. Given that this is a sports
facility, do you know or have you researched any grants or any outside resources that
would pay for a portion of the replacement lights?
DIRECTOR MILLER: There are a number of grants. The first one that comes to mind is
usual -- is the Sports and Tourism Authority, which we've been recipients of in the past.
It does have a cap at 500,000. So it really is a small dent, so to speak, in this number.
And it is contingent if we were to receive it. So there's a lot of things that would have to
fall into place for that. But we can certainly continue to look for funding sources. A lot
of times, they have a match component. So it is a situation of having the money, having
the project approved, so that the match is there. So that we could go after the
supplemental funding, if that makes sense.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Um -hum, yes.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So we can certainly continue to look for that. This is just
definitely a big number for us.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I know it is. I'm -- I know that it is and I know that
you're probably not going to find 100 percent of it but I mean, even a half a million, or
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whatever, it still would help. You know?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Certainly. Anything's better than nothing.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Yeah.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah, no doubt.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: So thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Along that line, would Musco be interested in naming
rights on the field?
[LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Rachael, I would suggest -- I'm for this. What I would
suggest is, is that a key selling point in this, possibly to the Vice Mayor, would be if you
guys could show the total amount of money savings going to LED. It's going to be big
number. It's going to be a big number.
Also, I don't know if it's still going on, but SRP has a program where they're asking
residences -- and I believe commercial structures -- to switch from halogen to LED. And
they have an LED program. Linda Brady would be someone that we could utilize to
reach out to her and ask her. But I don't know if the program is still going on so don't
quote me on that. But there was a program funded by SRP to get people to switch over to
LED because of the savings being so significant. So just something to think of. I'm for
it, but I just may -- it might sway some people up here.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I just want to make sure I understand. I'm not against
this. I want to make sure it's cost effective.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely. We'll be happy to bring more of a detailed
breakdown when we meet -- for us to discuss the CIP.
MANAGER MILLER: To Councilmember Spelich's point, we always work with SRP.
In fact, we've had some very good luck with -- we've made some improvements to the
interiors of the buildings on LED lighting replacements that we've gotten some
significant rebates. And this is one that we should reach out to our account rep, either
Linda Brady or our account executive that oversees our account because they have to
actually manage a -- quite a bit of money. So it's just part of the overall puzzle, helping
to pay for these.
MAYOR DICKEY: We can't use development fees though, right, because it's not, like, a
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new thing?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Unfortunately, correct -- you're correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks.
MANAGER MILLER: All right.
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DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Next project would be consideration for lights for Fountain
Park, the Fountain Park playground. This is estimated at 170,000. This is a response to
multiple points of feedback we've had about users and our residents requesting to use the
playground after dark. And as of right now, it is not a lit playground. A number of ours
are but the one at Fountain Park is not.
The Fountain Park playground shade structure. So when you do play a -- during the day,
you want shade. We have a shade structure there. The poles that are supporting the
shade structure are failing. You can kind of tell from this picture that they're starting to
tilt. While it's not a safety issue right now, it does need to be repaired. We have two
options. We're going to look at the least expensive option, which is the 12-5. However,
if that option isn't doable or if that doesn't fix the problem, then an additional 2,800 --
28,000 would be needed to do the secondary effort.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, the natural question would be, is there any relief from
whoever put them in wrong?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That is actually -- that's a good question. I think they were
inspected and they were -- passed inspection, to my understanding. This was a number of
years ago. So we did go back to review them.
Is there any recourse there, do we know, John or Justin? Okay.
So the -- this request is a request over the course of four years. So it's a request of
100,000 annually, over four years, to a total of 400 to do continuous sidewalk repair and
replacement in all of the parks. As you know, we have quite a bit of walking path. We
have quite a bit of concrete in and around our parks. Fountain Park being one of our
primary, it has -- gosh, more than a mile of sidewalk. And then, on occasion, we have
roots, we have lifting, we have damage that needs to be done. And that needs to be
maintained. And we don't have a fund set aside for that. So the request at this point, is
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to, kind of, have that -- those funds available as needed so that we can do those repairs
and prevent trips, falls, and safety hazards, and other things like that.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: We've probably discussed this in the past. I just want to
know, is there an option to concrete that's more stable, in terms of wear and tear?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That's a good question. I'm sure there is. We have explored a
number of different surfaces. We haven't experimented with any here. If we were going
to, it would be great to do, sort of, a small area -- test area, so to speak, to see if that
works. My understanding is that, financially speaking, concrete is the -- is the most
feasible in that regard.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Except it doesn't la -- it may not last as long as something
else, though. So --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- it might be worth looking into.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Absolutely.
MANAGER MILLER: The -- yeah. And the reason why the concrete, it's probably
actually a better maintenance item, particularly, maybe at Fountain Park. We have a lot
of issues with the coots that leave droppings and such. And we have to use pressurized
water to kind of clean that up. And some of those impervious surfaces that you might see
in parking lots and other walking pass are probably not a really good idea. Plus people, if
you were to use granite -- decomposed granite -- it gets kicked into the grass. So that's
part of the other issue. But certainly other parks could be looked at to see if they may be
more viable at different locations.
MAYOR DICKEY: One of the things that we talked about at Fountain Park a long time
ago, I think, was actually increasing the amount of concrete when we were having such
issues with the turf. So I didn't know if that was ever anything that we were continuing to
look at. You know, because we were -- we were talking about using the composite -- or
the granite and something to, kind of, minimize some of that turf area. So -- but this is
kind of different. I guess if we were going to start to repair, we might think a little bit
about whether want to that -- we want to go in that direction.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Sure. I recall last time we talked about that, we were having
some irrigation, and some runoff, and some other things that we have been able to amend
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so that we aren't having those issues. So I don't know if that's still an interest to go down
that -- that path or not. This is simply to do maintenance and repair of existing areas if
and when needed throughout our parks.
MAYOR DICKEY: If it ended up being -- you know, this is obviously -- this photo is a
confined area, but if we did look at that, I think part of it had to do with the salt, and the
water, and the turf issues that we were having. So -- and also, maybe using less water in
general. So I don't know if that's still on the table or if that's something worth discussing.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: The next project we have is known as the Centennial Pavilion.
This is a combination project that came forth at -- through a number of different forces
after the community center project this summer was completed. And through the
duration of the last two years of COVID, it's become noted that having an outdoor
gathering space is something we don't have here in our community -- shaded outdoor
gathering space.
So Centennial Circle was reviewed as one of those places that is underutilized and could
stand to be improved with a shade structure. So what you're seeing here is a rendering of
a potential shade structure that does not have a center post. If you're familiar, most -- you
know, most tent structures have that, kind of, center post. What we would recommend
doing is pursuing a shade structure that does not, in order to provide a entertainment
space, a gathering venue, a performance place, under, you know, over this -- over this
existing Centennial Circle. It would be an extension of the Community Center and
usable throughout for our other campus partners such as the museum, the library, and the
community garden.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah. Here I go again.
MAYOR DICKEY: This is Dark Skies.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I know. (Laughter) I think we should have traffic
lights -- I mean lights in the -- anyway. Isn't this -- we have not had a shade structure for
how many years there? Decades? Forever?
MAYOR DICKEY: 2012.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's when we (indiscernible) 2012.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: All right. Well, I just wonder if this isn't another, nice to
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have item that just really isn't necessary. The other thing I want to say before I give up
the mic is that last year or the year before, I asked that we get a list of all the possibilities
for spending this kind of money so that we could take a good hard look at it and see what
it is we want to spend money on and what it is we want to put off. So when we're
presented with these, it's almost, like, the staff has made all the decisions, subject to
council approval. And I think there has -- I think that has to change.
MANAGER MILLER: Well, if I could just address, I mean, if the Council didn't want
this and they provided us guidance today, this would drop off the proposed listing of
projects. So, I mean, we do listen to the Council.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: No. I'm not suggesting that.
MANAGER MILLER: You're saying if it's in the -- in the approved list and the Council
adopts it in the budget, that something come back to you guys to determine if this is still a
high priority or not?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Well, and what other items might be priorities instead of
something like this.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Because the list can be very long. And I'm not saying this
isn't worthy, although I do have some questions. But what are we -- when it comes to
this, what are we balancing this off against other items that we're not talking about
funding?
MAYOR DICKEY: I don't know. I guess I think of this -- yeah, I think this is that
exercise -- Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: No, I just -- was going to address Rachael about
this and say this is basically an extension of the Community Center. It's basically
something that could be rented out, although you may not recapture a hundred percent of
the revenue spent, you would recapture some of it. It would become another focal point
that's more usable than the one right now.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct. So yes, it would be a rental resource.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Um -hum.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: And secondly, it is -- the Centennial Circle, while it has been
installed since the Centennial, the Arizona Centennial in 2012, it is an underutilized
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space --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Right.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: -- i.e., the idea here would be to create a better system to use
that space and make a new -- a new usable resource --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Right.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: -- for the community that would be acceptable, you know --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Right.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: -- over 65, so to speak. So yes, this would -- that would kind
of check both boxes, if you will.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: And then, before -- just to your point, Alan, the -- I had a couple,
and probably all of us have had people suggest things that they'd like to see and I would
like to bring that up when we're done. And those were the kinds of things I think that we
measure against when we decide whether to move forward with something or not. And
again, the final failsafe is, when it comes back to us as an actual project, we can say, no,
you know, so much has changed, something has happened, we want to do this instead, or
we can't do anything. So I think there -- there is a lot of flexibility. But this becomes the
list and when we do our budget, the capital improvement part of it, the SIP (ph.), literally
has every project on there. And those things, as they come up through the course of the
year, that's when we make these decisions.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah. I'm just saying that, with all due respect, Mayor,
this is not the list. This is a preliminary list that has been selected by staff to put before
us that, in their judgment, are the things that we ought to consider funding. So this isn't --
to me, this is not the list.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, so and -- and again, this is, you know, it's all very flexible and
movable, but if you look at our budget from last year, it moves -- it goes forward. So
you'll see projects that extend for several years. I always refer to that, or I go back to our
budget on the website when I want to see, well, what did -- what have we done, what
was -- what's the list of projects. And this right now is literally the unveiling of the ideas
that Staff has. And it is absolutely up to us.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: That's what I said. This is --
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MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
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VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- the unveiling of what the staff thinks should be funded.
And I'm saying we should have more of an opportunity, and we will, to look at other
projects as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I feel like one of the first things Rachel
mentioned was, with the pandemic, it kind of came to light that we wish we had an
outdoor space -- I should say a shaded outdoor space. So while this has been on the back
burner, maybe in her mind, something that's been talked about for a while, it -- just the
mere fact that we have no shaded structure that we can rent out, whether it be for a
wedding -- and honestly, I feel like the library and the museum would absolutely love
this. But I feel like one of her first comments was the pandemic. When blah, blah, blah,
the -- the pandemic brought this to light. So I think that that's an important thing to -- to
mention is -- is it's not that it wasn't on a list. It's just that it -- it became more important.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Unfortunately, my wife is sitting in the back, nodding her
head in agreement with you. (Laughter)
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKL• Yeah, but also that has to be -- the Centennial
Circle has to be renovated anyway to some degree, right? Like, with movement of
statutes and things like that.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Correct. So there's -- there's a number of things that will --
that needed to be done within Centennial Circle. So this seemed to align with the timing
of that. Now, that being said and -- and Vice -mayor, thank you for feedback because I do
want to make sure that you -- everyone understands, this isn't just Rachel's wish list of
what 1, you know, think about at night. This is borne and based on community feedback.
It's borne on the conversations that we have with staff and with other community
members.
Actually this one kind of came out of a -- when the Community Center was closed both
for the pandemic and the remodeling, there was conversation of, oh, we want to keep our
Spanish class going, or oh, we want to keep this group going. How -- where could we
meet instead. And so we did use the back patio for a little bit. And it was, you know, we
couldn't accommodate. And so people were naturally gathering in Centennial Circle or in
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little shady areas of the parking lot.
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And so it became this conversation of, okay, if we had a place where we could program
and support these types of uses, does that make sense? And then it sort of kind of
snowballed from there as people said, actually, yeah, that would be great. Wouldn't it be
great if we could move Munch and Music outside? Wouldn't it be great if the Dark Skies
Festival had a place, you know, where they could have this or that? And it just sort of
blossomed from there. So it -- while I think it is a good idea, and this is why I put it on
our list so to speak, it is borne of -- through support of other people.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, well I think it's one of those things where,
you know, Alan, you had mentioned -- I mean, it is a nice to have, I agree with that. But
on the other hand, you know, the splash pads a nice to have, you know, a new playground
a nice to have. I mean, these are amenities that the community uses. And I think if it will
increase activity in that area, it's definitely worth it. And it just makes that whole space
more usable and, you know, you just don't see anyone out there now because it's just all
pavers and, I mean, people walk around, look at the statues and stuff. And -- and that's
about it. So I -- I think this would just enhance the whole area and be used a lot more.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: All right. Next up. This would be another playground
lighting. We have some existing lighting at our Four Peaks Playground. It's kind of a
view from our camera. It -- it has lights on one section. They are the old basketball court
lights from when the basketball court was there. We'd like to retrofit those and add lights
to the two- to five -year -old side. This is roughly $135,000 project. Again, to make the
playground to usable after dark. (Laughter)
Noted, thank you. The Four Peaks Park improvement and the upcoming fiscal would be
the last year for this project. The Four Peaks Park project has been kind of an ongoing,
rolling project for the last -- we're in year three, four now? So the last request is for the
last $100,000 of the project to finish out the landscape improvements. We have a big,
beautiful tree pictured there because we do want to add some additional foliage and
natural landscaping over there.
Desert Vista. So as I mentioned, we are wrapping up Four Peaks. And it's now time to
turn our attention and our efforts to the Desert Vista Park. Desert Vista is where our dog
park is and it's where our -- we've been putting in some efforts to improve the turf over
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there. That's where we added the lights for the skate park, which incidentally have been
super well received. And that's where we also added the mini -pitch through our
partnership with Musco.
So there's a couple of different projects proposed as Desert Vista. One is a $65,000
continuation. So a second year of the turf improvement we started this year. We made a
lot of headway. We'd like to continue that aggressive push to get the turf up to best
quality. And then we're looking at two years of $200,000 each to continue with park
improvements, including adding a pavilion. So a shaded pavilion out there over near the
playground area. Adding some fitness equipment. And adding a number of -- couple of
other amenities within the park to upgrade it to our standard -- our park standards.
MAYOR DICKEY: Rachael, would you be adding benches and seating, you know,
that -- that has come up in the -- in recently from folks?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So I think if you're talking about the --
MAYOR DICKEY: Dog park.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: -- specific to the dog park, we have a second project specific
to the dog park coming up.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, okay.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So this is specific to what I'll call the park side, not the dog
park side, the soccer side, the active side.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah, yeah.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: The general side. The nondog park side.
MAYOR DICKEY: The other thing is that I see, has the exercise equipment -- and
somebody asked about senior exercise equipment?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yes. So we would like to make sure that we have options for
all of our users. And we do have an identified area where this fits actually quite nicely
into this park layout. If you're looking at that middle picture of the park over -- overhead
view. Along the right edge there where the walking path comes around, there's a nice
bump out there that would accommodate fitness equipment nicely.
MAYOR DICKEY: Gerry?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: You're -- you mentioned this pavilion as a shade
structure. Is it cheaper to do it with a shade structure similar to the Centennial Circle?
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Or are you looking for something more permanent?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We would look at something more permanent, consistent with
what we have in our other parks. We -- and we would want to keep some of the
aesthetics that we have at Desert Vista. So we are going to be doing some renovations,
and you'll note that here later, to some existing shade structures that are there. But right
now this park is the only one that does not have a Ramada near its playground and near
its active amenities. So we want to add that to this park. We'd certainly look at how to
do that the most cost-effective way. And it may be prefab. It may be similar. We would
want to make sure that that's the best way we could do that.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: The other pavilions out there, are they in good shape?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: They have some structural issues that we're addressing right
now. We would want to -- we, those that -- needs to be addressed out there -- so we
would probably go a different route. We wouldn't put quite as much -- I don't want to
say, it's -- it's -- there's a lot of decoration on some of them out there. There a little more
advance--
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Ornate.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Ornate, thank you. That's a great word. I'm, like, I don't
know what to call it. They're fancy. We wouldn't go as fancy. We would be a little more
basic about what -- what we would do out there.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: And then one final comment. Musco seems to be the
lighting destination for us.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Musco, yeah.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Yeah. With all these parks that we're considering, is
there any kind of a package deal we can get from them?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: It -- it certainly -- it certainly a conversation we could have
with them. Knowing if we -- once the projects are approved or whatever we get -- have
direction from council, we can certainly work with them. And they've been great
partners. They are the ones that worked with us on the skate park lights and the mini
pitch that is out there now. So they've been great partners.
All right. So also within Desert Visit there is a focus on the skate park. As we know, we
added lights to skate park. It's a really well -used resource in this town. We are proposing
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a two-part funded renovation and expansion of the skate park. The skate park as it is
today needs work. If we're going to do the work, there's some layout changes that should
be made to the skate park. So we're proposing a $400,000 from the CIP (ph.) and 275
from development fees for the expansion component.
We would upgrade the layout, as you see here. If anybody understands -- if you skate or
ride a bike, there's kind of -- I don't, I'm not a skater. That's not what I grew up doing.
But I understand that you can't come down a quarter -pipe there and then hit a box.
(laughter) And again, I -- I don't (laughter) -- exactly -- and so there's -- there's portions
of the skate park that in -- in my best guess is that it was laid out in phase I and there was
always supposed to be a phase II. And phase II just didn't happen. So the layout was
in -- inspired to be completed and it just hasn't been. So at this point in time, it makes
sense for us to look at that expansion, redo what's there, expand the space, upgrade it, and
create a better space. So that gives you an idea of what the space park looks like.
(laughter) Uh-huh, it's in there.
So Mayor, do your question, this is a project specifically proposed for the dog park side
of Desert Vista. Staff and a number of council have met with ADOG representatives and
a number of users of the dog park. One of the concerns about the dog park is that it --
when it rains or when we have other irrigation issues, the park drains and floods to the
area shaded in green. And it gets muddy and it gets -- it becomes a problem. And then it
become an ongoing problem because once the mud is there, then the dogs dig. And then
it kills the grass. And then it's an uphill battle continually over and over.
So the best solution is to fix the problem and regrade that entire space. We -- there's two
ways we can do that. We can go in and regrade and then resod, which is much more
expensive than if we go in, regrade and allow the natural grass to come back. It's a little
longer time period, but it's less, much less investment to do it.
We've talked with a number of users, especially with our ADOG partners. They
understand that it is a little bit longer, but that it is -- it gets us where we want to be and
fixes the problem permanently.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Council member Friedel
and myself met with Denise Ricketts, the president of ADOG. Actually, it was over the
$28,000 donation that an anonymous donor had given, which is a sizable amount of
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money. And I thought to myself, who would give $28,000 for a dog park. I didn't even
think it got that much use. But then I was schooled about the tremendous amount of use
that the dog park gets. They were having rattlesnake issues with the bordering of the
fencing that was all overgrown. And then the rattlesnakes would crawl in through the
high grass and everything. Also there was -- I wrote it down so I didn't misspeak. There
was dogs that -- when it did rain, and they would play in the water over there. They
would get leptospirosis and giardia from the contaminated water that they were drinking.
So I mean, I think there's a liability issue there also because, I mean, we don't want dogs
getting sick and -- and getting these two diseases and having to go to vets -- and recently
taking my cat to the vet, it was a better to take her to the Mayo Clinic.
So -- so I just want to speak on this because I've been silent on everything else.
(laughter) So I -- I'm completely for this. I know it's a sizable amount of money but in
the grand scheme of things, with the amount of use that the -- the dog park gets, a citizen
coming up with 28 grand and everything else and I'm for it. So just want to talk about
that.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Mayor, to answer your question, you asked specifically about
benches and whatnot. So you can kind of tell in this overhead video -- shot, there's one,
two, three, four, five shade structures shown. There's one actually under the green
shaded areas as well. So there's six shade structures within the dog park. Two of them
are located in what we call the small dog, which is kind of that portion off to the left.
And then the remainder are in the big dog or active dog side.
There is an intersection between shade and grass, i.e., grass doesn't like to grow in the
shade. So providing shade structures does diminish the grass and the capacity to grow it.
So we're trying to find a balance there. That being said, we are in a process of replacing
benches that are in the park. And we do have a -- an eye towards having several other
permanent benches. There's been some conversation about temporary chairs. And while
temporary chairs are allowed when you come in, we're just asking that you take them
with you when you exit. Leaving them out, strewn around the park creates not only
grass, you know, issues with irrigation and other things like that, but they do -- they do
break. They become dog toys for other dogs. They become -- they become a hazard for
big dogs. So that -- that's where we're at with that project. Absolutely
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COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Rachael, are any -- are any of these structures on here
new ones? Or that hasn't been done yet?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Oh, no, they're complete.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Oh.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Actually, we will be doing -- note to everybody, if you haven't
already received Angela's invitation, there is a official ribbon cutting for the new shade
structures next Monday at the dog park at 9 o'clock. But yes, those are all in and they
look great.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKL• I know one of the big concerns about the
grass -- we had a conversation at the -- the meeting that we were at. They're always
asking, can we reseed? When you reseed the fountain area and the big conversation is to
why you don't do that is, you're talking six to eight weeks of closing the dog park to do a
proper reseeding and watering and whatnot. What kind of time line are we looking at?
You're going to have to close the dog park to do the regrading. What kind of time line
are we looking? And is there is any way we can actually reseed and just kind of kill a
couple of birds with one stone?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Great question. So keep in mind that -- so when they talk
about overseeding or reseeding, they're talking about changing from Bermuda grass to
Rye grass. Rye grass is what we have here in the winter time. That's what we have in the
park right now. It's beautiful, it's green. It's really, really, delicate though. So if we put
that in the dog park, the dogs are going to tear it up and it's going to be a mud pit by the
end of December. And then Bermuda grass will come -- will come back when it starts
getting warm. Bermuda grass likes the sun. It likes the warm temperature. So we start
seeing that -- regrowth somewhere, let's say, April time line is maybe when we start
seeing that. Kevin would know better.
That being said, we would time this grading in a couple of ways so that we would portion
of the area where we are regrading, hopefully not to close the whole dog park. We
wouldn't want to close the entire facility but probably just fence off the graded area so
that it is still a usable resource. Yes, it will take a number -- it will take a couple of
weeks, if not months, to regrow the grass. So we would time this when, ideally when the
spring -- when spring is springing. When the grass is coming back naturally to work with
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Mother Nature, if that makes sense.
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So if approved, this project would be undertaken next spring. So that as the Bermuda
grass is naturally coming back anyway and coming out of dormancy, it would hopefully
start to fill in this area.
MAYOR DICKEY: I don't' know if you know the answer but what was the thing about
dogs getting sick from drinking water?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That I don't know. I'll be honest, I don't know. I'd have to
talk with Denise a little further. Yeah, my -- my guess, if I had to guess is that they're --
it's standing water because it's not draining properly and that's the result of that.
Thank you. I believe that's our last project. So this give you a breakdown, a list if you
will, of all of the proposed projects for this year. Not a small number but this gives you
an idea of what we're recommending for the Community Services Department.
MAYOR DICKEY: So we'll be looking for grants. We'll be looking for development
fees. We'll be looking for naming rights. We'll be looking for whatever we can --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: (Indiscernible)
MAYOR DICKEY: -- economy's a scale with the lighting company. So we talked about
this a long time ago but -- over by -- I think they were talking about Kiwanis Club having
a Spartan training -- some kind of a thing. Is that something that's ever come back up in
a -- a conversation?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: No. But I do know that staff has looked at the Kiwanis
property and kind of eyeballed what it could be or what it might serve as if it were to ever
be part of the park system. Right now Kiwanis and -- the Kiwanis building and the
Kiwanis park is not recognized as part of one of our identified parks. If we were to ever
look into bringing that into our system, there's definitely some options there that we could
explore, whether it was Spartan training, whether it's a senior active space, whether it's
rehabbing the existing bocci court center there -- there's a couple of avenues we could
certainly explore there.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. The next presentation is capital projects and Justin
Weldy, the public works director, will be presenting these.
DIRECTOR WELDY: The first little section of this is going to be covering the capital
projects that we are currently are approved and either completed or underway. It'll also
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discuss the proposed capital projects for next year. And also the five-year horizon. --
date --
DIRECTOR WELDY: Let's try it again. (Laughter) This slide right here shows the
projects that have been completed. I think it's important to note that the very first one has
been in the capital budget project for the last ten or twelve years. And the funding this
year was utilized to address some drainage issues on the townhall campus. Primarily, the
runoff that was entering the front doors of the Community Center.
So we addressed that. And the reason I bring that up is because we're going to be
discussing that with future projects moving forward here.
MAYOR DICKEY: Justin, the -- wait, there's more coming, never mind. I wanted to
know where the road repair and -- and actual rebuilding that has been done -- does that
fall into this? Because sometimes I think there's a little mix up between the two -and -a -
half -- $2 million we put in to roads, basically from HURF, including now, you know,
last year we added another two million -- and how does that fall into projects like this and
then the other things that you do around town by, you know, just repairing -- I see you're
doing something right now that, like, on El Lago and some of those other projects that
have been done. How do -- how does that funding, the HURF funding fall in with this
and with all the other things that you do? Because we spend more than the
two -and -a -half million a year that's HURF, even though we added the 2 million last year.
That's not the usual. So I wanted to -- and you don't have to do it right now, but as you --
as you go along, maybe it would help to clarify some of those projects.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Understood, Madam Mayor, that is an excellent question. What
we are presenting and discussing here today is capital projects. And while several capital
projects include improvements to our roads and sidewalks, it's separated. So our
pavement management and maintenance is from the highway user transportation funding,
or as we refer to it, the streets fund. No streets funds will be used for any of the capital
projects. However, the capital projects will directly impact our streets.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome.
MANAGER MILLER: And if I may, just to clarify. So we do bring, every spring, to the
Council, the proposed street projects that we're going to undertake for next year. And we
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always provide to the Council, an update on what we did in the current year. Kind of like
what we're doing here on capital projects. But you're point it's -- sometimes there is
crossover because they might involve, like, for instance, you see the Desert Vista park
crosswalk sidewalk, you know, that project. They do sometimes overlap with one
another. So it's a good question.
MAYOR DICKEY: And overlap with sidewalk work as well.
MANAGER MILLER: Right.
MAYER DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: These are projects that are ongoing. The ones that are multiyear
or had been previously approved as a multiyear and will be showing up in the five-year
horizon are noted.
This is a continuation of our ongoing projects for this year. These next few slides are
proposed projects. It should be noted that when we're putting capital projects together in
Engineering and Streets, we primarily focus on safety. And each one of these projects is
a result of feedback from elected officials, management, the residents, or through our
own local knowledge and experience of what's happening. This first one is an excellent
example. (Clears throat) Excuse me. While we were installing the driveway on the
Avenue of the Fountains that was approved in this year's budget. It was referred to as a
shared parking for Park Place and Town Hall. We had to remove one simple light pole.
During the removing or relocating of that light pole, we discovered that the lighting and
the electrical circuits on the Avenue, while they're in good shape and of adequate size,
they're incorrectly labeled. And that now helps Rachael, Kevin, and I understand why we
have so many faults when it's time for special events and they plug in. We do our best to
test them in advance and keep them operating. However, they fail.
The next portion of this project is related to the up lighting on the palm trees. While
this -- this type of lighting was a very nice to have, it is also very, very expensive to
maintain and operate. And with the recent improvements on the Avenue of the Fountain
related to mixed use, there are at least one, possibly two, of the residents there that have
taken to adjusting and/or vandalizing the up lighting. So this project will eliminate what
they are experiencing, which is light into their windows and replace it with a more
modern LED that is controllable and also if so desired, possibly color changing for a
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fraction of the cost of what it takes us to maintain the current ones.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Justin.
DIRECTOR WELDY Sir?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Before you go to your next slide, could you please
have code enforcement cite that girl for riding a horse on our side walk? (laughter)
MAYOR DICKEY: That's the Pony Express.
DIRECTOR WELDY: This project right here is actually -- it was originally proposed
approximately ten years ago. And we did reach out through a request for proposals. And
we had several submittals. We did narrow it down last week to two. We did the
interviews right here in this room. We have selected one based on their presentations.
This is the first part of what we would strongly recommend be a two projects that are tied
together. This is a proposal for a roundabout at Avenue with the Fountains and Saguaro.
Please note that the funding level for this is just based on design. We will not know the
construction cost until later.
The next one, which is tied to this is the pedestrian access and lake overlook. This one
here -- and -- and this is good use of the natural topography and the terrain. The engineer
proposed utilizing that area is -- as part of an amphitheater. Also they show on the right
or the left, the accessible routes that would make this amenity and Fountain Park usable
to all from entry on the Avenue of the Fountains. And lastly, and you'll see just on the
top right there, there is a bridge crossing Fountain Channel. This again would creates a
short route that is accessible and available to all users to tie into the Great Lawn and the
main walking path in Fountain Park.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Couple years ago, maybe it was three years ago, the
possibility of an overlook by itself, I think, came up before the Council and it was very
expensive. And the Council unanimously voted against doing it. As part of the
roundabout, which I favor, I think it makes a lot of sense.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: I want to -- Councilwoman, did you have something?
MAYOR DICKEY: I wanted to mention -- oh, I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: I thought I heard something.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: If something like this were to be voted and happen,
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would it replace the existing amphitheater?
DIRECTOR WELDY: No, ma'am, it would not. This would just be an additional
amenity for the end users.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: So it --
MANAGER MILLER: In fact, it's not an amphitheater. It looks like it --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: It's more steps.
MANAGER MILLER: -- it's steps -- it's a sitting area. You see these in a lot of
urbanized areas, but no, actually, this would be an additional amenity where people could
actually eat their lunch or they could be at an event and it would provide a -- actually, it
would provide a nice, shaded area at the end of the day if there was a concert going on in
that location.
MAYOR DICKEY: I want to mention this Swaback downtown area -specific plan that
we did in 2009 and was incorporated into our general plan at the time which included,
obviously, not only the roundabout but it also talked about Saguaro being one lane, you
know, one lane each direction in that area and having on -street parking. And again, this
is a -- a discussion that changes the, you know, pretty much the character of that whole
idea of Saguaro Boulevard being a way to get through as fast as possible or are we
creating a downtown, you know, an area for -- really, you're not going to speed through
there. You're going to have walkability. Kind of goes along -- and -- and part of the
reason why you all didn't, you know, move ahead was because they were getting ready to
do Park Place and they wanted to know, well, how is this going to end up because of --
there were a lot of moving parts. And so now we're kind of seeing that start to happen.
So whatever this discussion is, I would -- I wouldn't mind, and I would advocate for
looking at this again because it was well vetted, well -- it had a lot of people involved
with creating this. Swayback is also involved with some other projects that we're doing
now --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Discovery Center.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sorry?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Discovery Center.
MAYOR DICKEY: This is the Discovery Center, yeah. So it -- it's a different way of
thinking of that whole area, really, of Saguaro Boulevard. And -- and so as we, or if we
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move forward with this design, which I think we did approve a year ago to -- to move
ahead, that we keep in mind a bigger picture.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Madam Mayor, when we come back next month with capital
projects, we will include the original concepts by Swaback and also some additional
concepts that we received for viewing for this intersection and the improvements.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's really good to hear. And grading may be along those lines,
too, since there are other parts of this project, of this Swaback plan, you'll see that we've
actually done some of the districts -- maybe not common districts necessarily, but some
of this stuff is actually falling in line. The residential along Avenue of the Fountains,
these kinds of things. So it might be worth a look because I bet there's a lot of people that
don't even know that this exists.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Um -hum. Good --
MAYOR DICKEY: Mike?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: That's a good point.
DIRECTOR WELDY: No, I think, I mean, I know there's some people cringing already,
but, I mean, just approving a design at this point in time, at least will give us an idea of
potential cost. And it's probably going to be a future council that'll decide construction or
not. But, you know, speaking of long term, I mean, for us old timers out here, Saguaro
Boulevard, you know, for a long time, there weren't any stop signs there. You just kept
going on Saguaro. And then when the stop signs went in, a lot of people were
complaining, like, oh, why the -- why are you forcing us to stop there. And, you know,
but if -- if you go from that time period to today, there's a lot more pedestrian traffic in
that area, you know. Park Place has been built. Other businesses in the area. And there's
been a lot more events held at Fountain Park in that area than there used to be. So I know
access to Octoberfest and St. Patrick's Day, et cetera has always been an issue at that
intersection because it just --there's just a pretty steep grass slope there. I mean, I know
people have fallen there and have gotten injured trying to get to an event. So I know it's a
big ticket item, but yet, I think this would really enhance the usability and accessibility to
the park and to future events that are held down there, so that's how I'm looking at it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice -mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yeah, I -- I totally agree with those comments. And it
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reminded me that when we discussed it originally and turned it down, it not only had
stairs -- I'm recollecting it had stairs to get down to the grassy area. But we also talked
about trying to do something for the handicapped, the disabled, elderly people, and so on.
So that would clearly have to be written into any kind of a plan that we -- that we go
forward with.
DIRECTOR WELDY: That's a good point, Vice -mayor. Keep in mind, any -- any time
that I use the verbiage, and I should be more clear on this, accessible route, that covers
that portion of -- it should also be noted that for a project like this, if and when it's
decided to move forward, when it's at a thirty -percent design, we will return to council
with what we refer to as a thirty -percent roll plot and allow council to not only view the
project but make recommendation and have comments on the design up to that point.
MAYOR DICKEY: And to overlive a little bit with what Rachael does, hi Rachael -- to
give you more events. Well, a lot -- this week, or -- I'm sorry, in March we're having the
Fountain Hills Days, which is going to end up being a really pretty cool day in town.
We've got stuff going on at museum and the community garden and Dark Sky. And
we've talked about this, about a downtown regular vibe for lack of a better word. I've had
some businesses there approach me about -- not recently, and in the past, about, you
know, having some sort of a regular event. I was calling it Third Thursdays, but it could
be whatever -- First Fridays.
They -- they have a lot of good ideas. They have ideas for, you know, shows and things
that they want to do. And if each business -- and I think, Grady, you mentioned that in
some communities, they have business -- what, downtown business associations or such?
Where maybe the burden isn't so much on one entity like us. Or where -- where a
business might say, hey, I want to have a fashion show this weekend. Or another one --
or this Thursday, whatever. Or I've got, you know, a band. Or this kind of food. Or
something. And it's really, you know, when you think about our weather, it's kind of a
short period of time, you know, you have to be able to do that. It's usually going to be
after Christmas. And then April -- bye-bye. So, you know, the way to have something --
this is conducive to it. And however it ends up looking. Where people are walking and
mingling and eating and dancing and all of those good things that we talk about.
And I think that we could share that with some of those businesses and they could take
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responsibility for maybe, you know, one a year, you know, it would be this one and this
one. So I'd -- I'd love to again, big picture kind of thing. You guys are doing this
together. So you -- you're -- you're responsible but, you know, we all -- we all
understand when you have, you know, staffing issues and things like that. But I'd love to
see something like that. Yes, sir?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Mayor. I don't know if you are all familiar
with the Southwest Airlines Ad of when the bell goes off, that ding, want to get away?
I'm having one of these moments right now. I can't imagine what the cost of something
like this is going to be. And I think it will make Rachael's $500,000 umbrella look like
the best idea she's ever had. Justin, do you have any idea whatsoever, just putting the
$900,000 price tag on this, what -- the roundabout outside the door, Justin -- what
possible number could even remotely be attached to something of this scope?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Council member, it's awfully risky for me to make projections
but I will tell you that when we looked at it last year, it was estimated at about 1.2. So we
added a slight escalation. And that is just for the traffic portion. It is -- at that time, the
overlook was estimated at somewhere around $800,000, which included about 3 or
$400,000 worth of retaining walls to support the existing facility and make it much
larger.
We try, to the best of our ability, to estimate about ten percent of the total cost by ten
percent for the design. And again, these are just estimates based on research from the
surrounding areas and something similar.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're very welcome.
MAYOR DICKEY:: Vice -mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I would presume, or maybe I shouldn't presume, as we
look at this seriously, the roundabout could be phase I. The overlook a year or two later,
phase II. They don't have to be built all at the same time, I would assume.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Councilmember, we would strongly recommend that if selected,
they be constructed concurrently. The reason is because of the offset of the idea would
be to built half of the roundabout and the overlook and then put traffic on that side and
then build the other half. The challenges that we face with Saguaro is it the primary
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trucking route, not only for Fountain Hills but for areas north of us. So -- and for those of
you that are, that may not know this, Fountain Hills has two primary trucking routes.
One of them is Saguaro. The other one is Palisades. There is an exception to Fountain
Hills Boulevard but that's north of Palisades, leading out of town. The reason is because
Fountain Hills Boulevard south of Palisades to Shae was not constructed to handle that
type of traffic.
So the primaries are Sawara, which is our highest truck count, excuse me, truck count.
And then Palisades, which is our second highest.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I just wanted to say how much I love this design. Say what
you will about a roundabout. I don't want to even get involved in that topic right now but
this is lovely and very inviting for outsiders. I can't imagine a better look for a newbie
visitor to the town to come in and stand there. I just -- I think that's -- it's stunning. I
think it would be great for visitors as well as potential new businesses, for them to help
pick a spot downtown as opposed to out of town or on the outskirts of our town.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. Anything else? Thanks.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome. This next project is actually in this year's
budget. However, after meeting with an engineering firm -- and we had met with several,
the one selected decided not to move to construction but to rather provide a design
concept report. As a reminder, this neighborhood, Brantley (ph.), is just over the
mountain from Fountain Park to the north and the east where runoff in that area has
created challenges not only for the homeowners but also for the town in maintaining the
safety of the roads. To be on the safe side, we placed this into next year's budget.
This one right here -- and thank you, all of you, for voting to approve the first phase of
the community center. Some of that was capital funds, and some of that was from the
reserve. During construction, we discovered challenges that we simply did not know
existed or we were misinformed or misunderstood. Let me provide some clarification.
We had numerous issues related to moisture in the carpeting and/or the flooring. We
were told by experts for several years that moisture was coming up from the bottom
because the Community Center on -grade slab had not been properly constructed and did
not have a vapor barrier.
We learned, when all the flooring was removed, that only a part of that was right because
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during rain events, water comes in everywhere around the building, from the walls and
the storefronts, and it slowly but surely makes its way across the floor to the middle or
other locations. We are currently working on the storefronts. For clarification, when I
say "storefront", that's the doors and windows.
But during this, we also discovered on the west side of the building, in a little closed -off
patio, that the rain that falls in there stands approximately three inches deep against the
building for weeks and slowly but surely flows into several parts of the building. The
intent of this project is to address those water issues on the storefronts and on that wall
but also make some minor changes to the interior of the building, including adding one of
the collapsible walls to more better be able to utilize that area where that wall will be
constructed. But again, the primary is to deal with the rain issues related to the
storefronts and the walls and get water to drain away from the building.
This one here, we were going to be -- this will be a two-year phase. So we're asking for
some funding in this year, and then we'll be asking for additional funding in the'23/'24.
And I think it's important to note that as part of Phase I for the Community Center, while
these things were being discovered, that project was being fast -tracked. There were a lot
of moving parts. Obviously, we were not able to meet our obligation for an opening date,
but had we begun to address these other issues, we would have certainly been delayed by
a considerable amount of time and quite possibly rushed through. And they wouldn't
have been addressed correctly. So we will be addressing that with this next phase split
over two years.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Justin, will it necessitate the Community Center being
closed for any extended length of time?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Excellent question. It will not. The majority of this work we can
do the very sensitive stuff at nights and on weekends whenever it's less likely to be
occupied. But there won't be any extensive closures. Some of it will just not be
accessible for a limited amount of time.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you. So question, Justin. If we have a huge
rain event, are you saying that without this being fixed, the 800 grand that we just spent
on the Community Center with updating everything, there's going to be water that's going
to come into the Community Center?
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DIRECTOR WELDY: That's an excellent question. And the answer is yes and no. So
there's a minimal amount of water that comes in, but we have taken preventative
measures, including caulking, sandbags, and other things that we ramp up for each time
we know there's going to be an event. And then we clean it up immediately so there's no
permanent or sustainable damage to the building.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Well, I would think that the Council should seriously
consider allocating whatever funds you need to accomplish this project immediately not
over two fiscal years. I mean, this is --
MANAGER MILLER: If I may, we are currently --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Just one second, Grady.
MANAGER MILLER: Sure.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: One second, Grady.
So I think it's imperative that we just gave you guys an open check with a lot of money
attached to it to fix this so it'll be the jewel of the centerpiece of the town and the
community. We don't know what's going to happen with the weather. There's no way to
determine what's going to happen with the weather out here.
If there is an event that's a huge event, when I mean a weather event, and we sustain
significant damage to -- I mean, this is totally reminiscent of the way that we rip up roads
in Chicago. We put down brand new roads in Chicago. Everybody loves it. And then
the gas company or the water company comes in and tears up every single thing that we
put down brand new to put in new gas lines and new water lines only to lay the road back
down again. I mean, I don't know about the other councilmembers. This is so troubling,
and it makes me angry, really angry that this is even a possibility.
And I'm not blaming you, Justin, and I'm not blaming Grady. I'm not blaming anybody.
It's an issue, and it's an issue that needs to be addressed immediately not over a course of
time, before something bad happens. Because I'm going to tell you right now, if there's
damage sustained to that Community Center, the residents are going to lose their minds.
They're going to lose their minds.
It's like paying all the money we did to fix the ballpark and then not mitigate flood
damage that could happen after we spent all the money to replace the sod. So I'm not
going to speak for anybody else here on the Council. I definitely am not going to speak
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for the Mayor, but it's absolutely imperative that this be put on the top of everything.
Let's hold off on the umbrella. Let's hold off on everything, and let's focus on protecting
an investment that we made into the Community Center of over $800,000.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Mayor, I couldn't agree more with Councilman
Spelich. That's a big investment we've got sitting there. It's beautiful. We've gotten a
ton of compliments on it. Why put it at risk? So I agree. We get on this ASAP.
MANAGER MILLER: I'd just like to just speak that we didn't even know until just
recently as to what the possibilities were to fix it. So we're still trying to get that firmed
up, correct, Justin?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Correct. The --
MANAGER MILLER: So that's part of the issue. We don't have the solution at hand
right now. We know there are solutions, but we're trying to determine the ideal solution,
and we've had -- I've seen consultants out -- or not consultants, but I've seen workmen out
there trying to assess the building and trying to figure out why the windows -- where the
water's flowing in from to try to get this determined.
So it's really not -- even if we could do it right now, we don't know what needs to be done
and at what cost. So I think as soon as we know that, if the Council, what I'm hearing is
we can do an emergency approval, then we'll try to do that. We just didn't have that
information ready for you today to know what that might be.
DIRECTOR WELDY: And I think it's important that everybody know this. The
Community Center footprint concrete is big, and then the walls on it are set inside. So
any water that falls around it, it actually seeps back up to the doors and windows. And
again, we have taken numerous measures to minimize this intrusion of water. We still
have a little bit during rain events, but nowhere near what was happening prior to us
actually being aware of these entry points.
So absolutely, we have met with numerous industry specialists that have several different
recommendations. And we just don't know the fix to the storefronts. We certainly know
what to do on the west side of the building. That, we will address. In the meantime, we
have taken measures to keep that one dewatered. So we are aware, and we appreciate the
challenges.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Mike?
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COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: So in light of Grady's comments, and I mean, the
225, you're just kind of spit -balling that? Or is that Phase I of Phase II, or we don't really
know yet since --
DIRECTOR WELDY: These are --
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: -- we don't know what it's going to take.
DIRECTOR WELDY: It's based on estimates that we've received from several different
professional trades that deal with this type of thing.
The next project, this has actually been on the radar for the Pedestrian and Traffic Safety
Committee. It's a subcommittee to this Council right here. And this was originally
brought up several years ago from residents and road users in regards to northbound
Fountain Hills Boulevard, left turn to westbound Palisades. There is what we refer to as
stacking there, several cars in the left -turn lane, and they are not able to be serviced
during the phase.
Currently, this traffic signal configuration is protected left turns only. We recently went
out and increased just slightly the timing by a few seconds to allow for additional time to
service not only the north and southbound but also the east and westbound left turns. We
know, at least based on our knowledge and the knowledge of the traffic engineer that had
originally assessed this intersection, while that may provide some temporary relief, it's
not likely going to provide the long-term relief to these turning movements.
This came before the Council last year, and there was a decision to defer the project
while we attempted these timing changes. We have done that. We also split it up.
This year, we are asking for the consideration of design funding. And then in outlying
years, we would come back and ask for the funding for construction. Again, this is to
improve the level of service for the intersection of Fountain Hills Boulevard and
Palisades where we are currently not meeting the needs of the end users.
This one right here is multi -year ongoing. You will note that there is a .5 increase. That
is a result of information that we have gathered while doing the initial design. The
utilities, including electrical and water and possibly the fortification of some sanitary
items, are necessary. Once again, this is a multi -year, but we thought it important to
show you that the price most certainly had increased in the engineer's estimate.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Let's go back one slide. So I literally just spoke about
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this three minutes ago. So am I under the assumption that these changes -- are these
changes related to mitigating any type of flood damage that would happen at Four Peaks
Park -- or I mean, Golden Eagle?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Absolutely. So the changes that we're referencing is primarily
we need to relocate the existing utilities to increase the width and depth of the existing
channels. I want to be real clear here. After the storm even that created hundreds of
thousands of dollars worth of damage, town staff and contractors went into these areas
and cleaned out the channels and removed the overburden. We also removed some
access barriers that were reducing the flow through the dam. Since that time, we've had a
minimal amount of backwatering and a minimal amount of outflow. And the Mayor and
Council are aware of that.
But yes, the increase in cost for the overall project primarily is a result of relocating the
utilities and creating a less challenging multi -use path for the end users.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So do we -- so if we have a significant rain event, then
we're going to be looking at the same damage because that really hasn't been mitigated.
DIRECTOR WELDY: If we have -- and we did have two very similar events where
again, we had a minimal amount of backwatering and a little bit of outfall. And once
again, we took corrective measures immediately. And while I cannot guarantee you that
there's not going to be a backwatering and an outfall situation that caused the hundreds of
thousands of dollars in damage, it's much less likely because of the work that we have
done leading up to this.
Again, this is the overall cost for making -- so it was originally right around 1, 1.1 million
to finish the project after design. We're estimating that it's going to take about another
half million to accomplish that.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I just think moving forward, we -- when I say we, I
mean staff. I think there needs to be a better line of communication between -- like when
we're doing projects like this, like a prime example of this would be the Community
Center. We updated the Community Center. Rachael spearheaded the Community
Center upgrade, and then all of a sudden you find out that there's going to be water
infiltration into the Community Center. So there seems to be some kind of a dis --
MANAGER MILLER: Well, I want to make sure that we understand that this was
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actually a Facilities project, and it was in Public Works. So it wasn't Rachael. And I'm
not blaming it on anybody. I'm just saying, it was his staff that actually oversaw the
project. Rachael actually came before you to request the money, but ultimately because
it's Facilities, and Facilities is a Public Works, this was their project. And so --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So you're disagreeing with what I'm saying.
MANAGER MILLER: I'm not disagreeing about a disconnect because part of the issue
with this is that this is only addressed in Golden Eagle Park, but as we've talked before,
we have a system -wide issue with our washes. So it's not just -- I mean, as you know, the
Cloudburst and some of these other washes are all feeding into this area. And so we got
to really address those other areas because there's erosion going on in homes right --
potential for loss and all that. So this is just one slice of a bigger picture. So I agree with
you on that, that this is not going to just probably take care of all of our wash issues,
absolutely not.
As far as the project, we did do some -- and I don't think Justin got into this, but as far as
the Community Center, there was mitigation that was done as part of that renovation, and
we were led to believe that that was going to take care of that issue, and it did not. So
that's the disconnect.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay. Well, I'm just worried about how this plays to
the residents. Because the residents see, oh, we just spent $800,000 on a community
center, and now there's a possibility that the Community Center's going to have a
significant damage done to it after we just spent that kind of money. Oh, we just spent
750 or $800,000 on fixing the ballpark, and there's a possibility that there's going to be
more flood damage now because there's more mitigation that needs to be done. I'm sorry.
This is my perception, and this is what I'm thinking, and I can only think that since I'm up
here and we do this every day and eat, sleep, and drink this, residents that don't see this
every day and don't live it like we do are going to be very confused.
And like I said, I feel in my heart of hearts that I just think we all need to be singing off
the same sheet of music when we tackle projects. My opinion, Grady. If you disagree
with it, I'm sorry.
MANAGER MILLER: Well --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: But I'm entitled to my opinion.
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MAYOR DICKEY: Well, could I just saying something?
MANAGER MILLER: Sure.
MAYOR DICKEY: About the Community Center, the water issue was apparent right
from the very beginning. It was one of the first things, before anything even started, that
I was told about. And so you're right, and it's a more immediate thing. It's a new
extension of that as far as the Community Center goes, and we have to take care of it.
And I agree with you that we should do that as soon as we can, as soon as we know what
the remedy is.
But water being an issue at the Community Center was not new. This Golden Eagle extra
work isn't really extra. I believe it was part of the capital improvement --
MANAGER MILLER: It's part of the Fuller study that we had.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- that we've been for the last few years. So the flood was actually
2017 or something, and the amount to completely take care of that, it was astronomical.
So we've been doing it little by little. Well, not even little by little. We did in chunks.
MANAGER MILLER: Incrementally.
MAYOR DICKEY: But this is not new. This to me, isn't new, seeing this picture.
MANAGER MILLER: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: And then the last thing I want to say is over the last four years, we
probably would have collected 2.4 to $2.5 million in environmental fees if we'd been
allowed to do that. And this water mitigation, stormwater management, which is odd
because we live in a desert, but it's been huge, and it's something that I think we see as
homeowners and we're seeing in this desert environment, stormwater management is
huge. And that's money that we would have had to put directly towards this if we had
been able, unchallenged, to continue collecting that.
MANAGER MILLER: And I just want to clarify. So Justin, when he first started
talking --
Justin, this is the JE Fuller design, correct?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Yes, sir.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. So what I heard you say when you first started talking is
that you believe that there's been cost escalation. When did JE Fuller get the design done
on this?
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DIRECTOR WELDY: The design is not done. The design is about --
MANAGER MILLER: Okay.
DIRECTOR WELDY: -- 85 percent. So the project design to address the majority of the
challenges that we faced from 2017 is still underway. But as that design goes forward,
we discover things.
MANAGER MILLER: So that's the issue. And that is a disconnect. I will tell you that
we will likely not be continuing to use JE Fuller because I believe they're about two years
behind on this.
DIRECTOR WELDY: I agree.
MANAGER MILLER: So we should have had a design from them, in my opinion, two
years ago.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: What are we going to do about it now?
MANAGER MILLER: We're at 85 percent. We're going to get it done, but we're not
going to continue to use them. There are other firms out there that are outstanding that
we'll continue to use.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Two comments. One, I think it's imperative that we
take care of what we have. It's obvious that we have some things we need to catch up on.
And I know, Justin, we talked about this at length before about lateral migration of some
of these washes further upstream as well. So does that 1.5 include some remediation in
those areas where they've laterally moved some of those washes?
DIRECTOR WELDY: No, sir. Our estimate and the engineer's estimate is just to
complete the improvements for the Golden Eagle Park impoundment after the design is
done. In regards to the lateral migration and the other erosion, which is quite substantial
as of July 15th and August 13th of last year, a lion's share of that is going to be addressed
with the Area Drainage Master Study that's being paid for by the Maricopa County Flood
Control District.
Without getting off too deep into that, that completed document will be our guide for
future projects and also applying for and working with other agencies on corrections and
remediation and securing grants.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: So those homes that Grady mentioned and that I have
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seen off of Bainbridge, that wash right across the street from Golden Eagle, that's not
even part of this yet?
DIRECTOR WELDY: No, sir. It is not.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Thank you.
MANAGER MILLER: But to your point, it's getting to a critical point where we've got
to do something because I'm very concerned about loss of private property and town's
liability for that.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: That's exactly why I brought it up. Thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: (Indiscernible).
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Jason, there's probably an easy answer to my question.
Justin, rather. Or was it Jason? Justin. Is that your name? I was close.
In 2017, was it, we had that massive storm, right, that buried the ballfield and so on and
so forth and cost, what, $800,000 to solve the problem. It seems like over the last several
years, every so often we get a new project for that area. And I guess I find myself
wondering why back then we haven't had -- we didn't have a comprehensive study by
engineers -- or maybe we did -- for everything we were going to need to do over a period
of time and the cost to mitigate.
DIRECTOR WELDY: And thank you for that. Excellent. So what's happened here is I
have failed to communicate. There was a storm event in 2017/18. The end result of that
was hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage to the Golden Eagle Park
impoundment. Under emergency measures, we came to the Mayor and Council. We
asked for funding. That funding was to clean the amenities and Golden Eagle Park and
do a minimal amount of grading to the channels that were there.
It was at that time we also did exactly as you mentioned. We reached out to a
professional organization to do design -- or provide design and guidance. And that's what
we've actually been working on since that time frame.
So the initial investment that the Mayor and Council approved was for cleanup of the
amenities and also to clear the channels and the overburden that was in the channel. And
staff absolutely undertook and made those corrections immediately. It should be noted
that since that time, we have had several rain events that prior to the ' 16/' 17 fiscal year,
most likely would have cause additional damage to Golden Eagle Park. But because of
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the upfront measures that were taken to increase the width and the depth of the channels
and provide some barriers, we've not really had that. And again, the total money here --
it's not a new job. It's just a slight increase in the original estimate of what it'll take to fix
it to the best of our ability permanently.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: That's helpful, but I'm not sure it addresses my question.
Maybe I didn't ask it clearly enough. We still have these projects coming up to mitigate
the flooding --
DIRECTOR WELDY: Correct.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- whether it's cleaning out channels or all this stuff. Did
we have a comprehensive list of everything that would need to be done in that area with
prices that was put before us so we could at least look at it and see what was ahead?
DIRECTOR WELDY: We will shortly have a list from the Maricopa County Flood
Control District that covers the entire town, including this area. We will not know the
numbers until after that is actually -- that study, which again, the Flood Control District is
paying for, is completed. Once that is completed, then we will much better be able to
determine the projects and the potential cost of those projects moving forward.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: The flood was in 2017. Couldn't we have hired
consultants and engineers to go out and take a look at that whole area and tell us exactly
what was going to need -- what needed to be done over a period of time with the cost?
Why do we have to wait so long?
DIRECTOR WELDY: We did. It's JE Fuller. They've been working on it since 2018.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Then why didn't we fire them? Why didn't we fire them
and go to a different -- that's outrageous that we -- 2018. What was their scope of work?
Were they supposed to take a look at that area --
DIRECTOR WELDY: They did.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- and tell us everything that needed to be done?
DIRECTOR WELDY: They did.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: And they're still working on that?
DIRECTOR WELDY: They didn't tell us everything that needed to be done. And while
I'm not going to get into JE Fuller directly because I don't want to get into that situation
here, I will tell you that they were provided a scope. We agreed to that. They started
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working. After that was started, numerous things were discovered that town staff didn't
know, the previous town engineer did not know. The scope and the fee escalated.
As we began to work forward on additional design, we discovered that the watermain, the
electrical, and the sewer are now going to be impacted by this. Again, these are things
that we didn't know.
So while we've made progress on the design, in doing so, we've discovered other
deficiencies that we were not aware of. And so it has been ongoing since that time.
There was a study that we paid for that showed us approximately how much water in a
10-year, 20-year, 100-year, and the worst -case scenario, 500.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I just simply don't understand. Maybe I don't know
enough about it.
MANAGER MILLER: Part of what we experienced --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Excuse me. Excuse me.
MANAGER MILLER: Sure.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Four years, waiting four years for this, I just don't
understand. And I question -- I don't know what the contract looks like. I know nothing
about it, but it sounds like a lack of performance.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Mayor.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, I'm sorry.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you. It's obvious that contract negotiations,
fulfillment of contracts, and everything is not the proper place to discuss this during a
budget retreat. Okay. I'll give you that. Obviously, the Vice Mayor and myself are both
pissed off. I'm sorry, upset. Would you please, and the Town Manager and the Town
Attorney, meet together, the three of you, four of you, whoever needs to be involved,
John Wesley, anybody, the Mayor. Meet and discuss this contract. Go over every
portion of this contract. If there's some liability on their part or malfeasance on their part,
I'm going to assume we've already paid them in full, which completely sucks.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Part of it.
SPELICH: Oh, well, if we didn't pay them in full, by your head nod, I believe that the
Town Attorney, the Town Manager, yourself, and the Mayor should sit down, go over
every aspect of contract, and hold these people responsible for what they've done to this
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town. I mean, it's one thing to say we're never going to use them again.
Like, if I go to a restaurant and have a bad meal. I walk out, and I go, I'm never going to
use you again. Burger King don't care. They got 300 million, billion, zillion customers.
But I mean, we have to make a point in this that we cannot be taken advantage of. This is
affecting the entire town and the residents. And the amount of money that we spend of
their monies that we're -- I'm so upset I can't even put words together, for Christ sake.
We are stewards of the town's money. So let's get together, and let's find out what this
company is responsible for, what they didn't fulfil. Let's not pay them if we owe them
still more money. Let's get together on this and then report back to us on what the
findings are. Because we have to hold somebody responsible for this.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Understood.
MANAGER MILLER: No, I completely agree.
MAYOR DICKEY: Kind of a larger issue there, David, too. We talk about studies and
all of these other things that we do. And part of our being the size town that we are,
whether we have people on board who are actually in house or not is kind of a constant
challenge for us because we don't have necessarily the expertise for the variety of needs
that we have. The Fountain is, like, the best example of that.
So this is something that -- we've seen it with the roads. Seeing it with this, but these
aren't usual challenges. So I agree we need to get a good feel for it, but I also want to
acknowledge that when this very first started, when it first was an event, and we weren't
on the Council then, but we were aware that this was going to be -- there were going to be
a lot of steps to this. But I don't know whether we should have expected it to take this
long.
In the meantime, though, I'm relieved that we've been able to mitigate, in the storms that
we've had in between, anything like that ever happening again. Thanks.
DIRECTOR WELDY: This next project is related to pedestrian safety and more
importantly to eliminate conflicts between pedestrians and automobiles. This is very
similar to the Desert Vista Crossing [sic]. Town staff is proposing that a marked crossing
be installed at Kingstree on Saguaro. And also part of this project right here will include
necessary drainage on the south side of Saguaro here at Kingstree. We currently in that
area, have undersized drainage facilities. And during and after larger storm events, the
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water ponds in the street for extended periods of time.
Again, two-phase project. One of them is to put in a crosswalk that would allow people
to cross from one side to the other. The next one would be to increase and minimize the
drainage issues that we have in this intersection.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I want to go back. I want to go back to Golden Eagle just
briefly. Councilman Spelich and I don't always agree. That's no surprise, but I just want
to light a fire and say, I want to know -- and you can't answer right now. I want a report
on when we're going to hear back on a discussion of the contract and what we're going to
do about it. Okay?
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. The Kingstree one, is that the same area where the project is
going in the mixed -use project?
DIRECTOR WELDY: That is correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: It's also -- this is one of the very few locations where we actually
have sidewalk on Saguaro that leads to one of our amenities, which is Desert Vista Park.
And it should be noted that Kingstree is a very wide road that is heavily utilized by
walkers. And they walk down to Saguaro. And if they want to cross there, it's
challenging, let's just say.
This location is very similar to Desert Vista. We have good line of sight from where this
crosswalk would be placed, which allows not only the pedestrians and cyclists to see the
motorists but the motorists to see them in kind.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah, Justin, I was just going to -- I mean, you
answered part of my question. Because when we did the Desert Vista one, that was all
centered on Desert Vista Park and the access for kids and everyone else to get over there.
I was kind of questioning this one in terms of where it leads to or how much it's going to
be used.
I mean, I can see some benefit to it. I mean, I'm sure there are a lot of people in the area
that kind of walk around there, but the drainage, obviously, that's probably a no-brainer.
So I don't know. We probably can't get anything out of Mr. Kaufman (ph.) related to this,
can we? I mean, in terms of his project, if it goes?
MANAGER MILLER: I believe that would have already had to go through the pre -
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application process. So I don't think we're going to be able to get participation from the
developer of that corner.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Mike, you're reading my mind. I was going to ask the
same question. And maybe in the future, we need to consider projects like this. And if
they're going to impact a intersection in the future, we need to make note of that and
make sure we get some help.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Understood.
MANAGER MILLER: Duly noted.
DIRECTOR WELDY: The next project is Palisades and La Montana. This intersection
has been a point of numerous discussions in regards to possible mitigations there for the
level of service. We don't have a recommendation for how to increase the level of
service. It's currently an all -way stop, controlled by an all -way stop, rather. So what we
would be asking for is funding for an analysis to determine what could possibly increase
or improve the level of service for this intersection.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Justin?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Sir.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: That's an all -way stop?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Correct. Wait.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I don't think so.
[CROSS TALK]
DIRECTOR WELDY: Palisades and La Montana is an --
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Oh, yeah, Palisades --
DIRECTOR WELDY: -- all -way stop.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I'm sorry. I was thinking another intersection. You're
right. I'm sorry.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Saguaro is (indiscernible) stop.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Correct. Yeah, that's the one I was thinking.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Well, before we move on, we brought this up at
our Safety Committee meeting a couple weeks ago. And obviously, the proposal at
Avenue of the Fountains and Saguaro's going to bring a lot of ongoing discussion, I'm
sure, here in the community. But to me, this intersection almost, at least personally, takes
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on more priority just because there's so many lanes coming together, and there's a lot of
pedestrian traffic in this area, and it's just lot of confusion among the motorists.
And I know we did have one or two crashes there recently, but that was more just people
running stop signs or what have you. But to me, it seems like some kind of improvement
is really necessary here, especially this time of year when the traffic volume is so much
higher. And I just think our traffic and our community would be better served by some
kind of improvement, whether it's signals or a roundabout, what have you. But I am
totally in favor of looking at improvements here because I think that's almost the next
priority before the Avenue one. But my opinion.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Understood.
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor, if I may, I'm sensing people are starting to get a little
hungry and probably have some nervous energy. What I'd like to suggest is --
[CROSS TALK]
MANAGER MILLER: What I'd like to suggest is we just take a five-minute break. We
go pick up our lunches, and then we'll have a working lunch. So we can try to get
through this so we're not going to have this delay. We'll try to stay back on track.
The next five items after this are very quick reports and updates, so we can get hopefully
caught up. So let's do that.
(Pause)
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. Justin, why don't you proceed?
DIRECTOR WELDY: This next project is actually a walking path connector. Currently,
if you use the Lake Overlook Trail and you come down on the east side of the park, there
is not a marked crossing there, and this is heavily used by pedestrians. We believe
strongly that a connector sidewalk with a marked crosswalk crossing panorama will be a
benefit to the Lake Overlook Trail users.
The next one is Saguaro and La Montana. This is controlled by stop signs on either side
of La Montana. We have faced numerous challenges there over the years. The primary
issue we have is on Saguaro, just north of La Montana is a vertical crest or a heel. And
what happens is for eastbound La Montana drivers wanting to make a left turn or go
straight, the amount of time they have to determine if there's adequate time for their
turning movement or to make it across the intersection is very limited as a result of this
�p r
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hill.
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Just last Thursday, the town engineer and I received back from the traffic firm, an
analysis of this intersection. We have not had time to completely review it nor discuss it
with the Town Manager. The next steps for this project is to bring it before the
Pedestrian and Traffic Safety Committee with recommendations from the firm and
determine what direction we'll go forward there. This is a placeholder for next year to
determine or to be utilized for those improvements should they be approved by this full
body when we come back with a contract.
This one right here is a multi -year. It should be noted that for the last several years, the
Mayor and Council has generously approved $200,000 to do sidewalk infill. We have
discovered that we need additional funding. And primarily, that funding is for design.
We have several locations -- and this one right here is on Saguaro -- where the sidewalk
just dead -ends into a steep slope.
While applying for grants to do sidewalk infill -- and we currently are working on a $2
million one that we got a grant to build sidewalk for -- we discovered that the recipients
of these grants oftentimes have better results in receiving if they have their design
completed. So again, this is primarily for infill. Those are locations that are identified in
the Active Transportation Plan, the general plan, and our short and long-term sidewalk
infill plan. And the additional funding is to design in those areas that are identified in
each of those documents as a priority.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Justin, I think I've seen it. We have a long-term,
comprehensive plan for sidewalks, do we?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Yes, sir. We have two of them. We have a short and long-term
that is designed and utilized by town staff. And then we have the recently adopted Active
Transportation Plan.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: You're welcome. This next project here is -- it says Town Hall
campus. That is the Community Center, the library, and the Town Hall. The exterior
lighting on these buildings is incandescent or metal halide and outdated. It is not cost
effective. Also, there are several up -lighting areas that light the Town Hall. We utilize
some of them for bathing the light in different colors after proclamations are read by the
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Mayor. It also will address the deficiencies that we have in regards to not having
working lights on the Town Hall campus.
It should be noted that several years ago, the Mayor and Council approved a project to
replace the lighting town -wide, primarily related to parking lots and the Avenue of the
Fountain. Those were converted to LED, and we did receive a substantial amount of
funding back from SRP as a result of those changes. With this change, we intend to
apply for any and all rebates that are applicable to this project at that time.
MANAGER MILLER: Justin, is this Musco too?
DIRECTOR WELDY: Excuse me, sir?
MANAGER MILLER: Would this be Musco too?
DIRECTOR WELDY: No, sir. It will not be Musco Lighting.
This next project is, once again, an ongoing. We discussed this two years ago with the
failure of a pre -incorporation pipe. Since the Mayor and Council approved this, we have
made substantial headway on clearing and getting assessments. And again, this is an
ongoing where we are going to do rehabilitation as opposed to reconstruction. So we're
being proactive on some our infrastructure, and we're focusing primarily on pre -
incorporation drainage pipes and structures.
That was our proposal for the '22/'23. This is the five-year horizon. You'll see several of
these projects reoccurring as it's ongoing and long-term to address the needs over a
period of time.
It should be noted that the video surveillance cameras, which started off several years
ago, used to be a P because it was primarily related to Parks. Rachael commented on this
earlier today in regards to progress. It has since been changed to an F, which is Facilities.
For this year, we are going to be making substantial improvements to Town Hall. We are
going to be adding additional locations at Golden Eagle to address some of the vandalism
there. We are also looking at Desert Vista Park, and we are looking at Adero Canyon as
well.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Justin, excuse me.
DIRECTOR WELDY: Sir.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I want to be careful not to poke the bear, but the top two,
any of that for Golden Eagle?
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DIRECTOR WELDY: Some of it, some of number 2. So the drainage structures leading
up to Golden Eagle and those three washes, some of that will be addressing that. But
inside the impoundment area, no. But leading up to it and after it leaves there, absolutely.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Thank you.
DIRECTOR WELDY: This is the CIP summary for the projects that we've presented
here. The next slide shows the total that we are requesting, which is just under $4 million
for Public Works and just over $4 million for Community Services. And that is the end
of the CIP for Community Services and Public Works.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. Any questions of us before we move on? Okay. Really
the next five items should be very quick that we're going to start going through. So
David's going to lead a discussion or an update on the Facilities Reserve Plan that is
currently underway, that -- Mr. Pock?
DIRECTOR POCK: (Indiscernible) --
MANAGER MILLER: David, if you can just pull it up, that mic seems not to be as
sensitive as the others.
[CROSS TALK]
DIRECTOR POCK: Thank you. That sounds like it'll work even for a low -talker like
me. All right. So Facilities Reserve. The original study was done in 2016. It was meant
to look at the buildings, parks, as well as some of those selected components of each of
those, and determine their useful lives and replacement costs and the replacement dates.
They provided a suggested funding plan per fiscal year for -- I believe it went out 30
years.
There's been some deficiencies noted with that original plan as far as the estimated lives
needed to be updated. The replacement costs were underestimated, to say the least, on
some of them. And then some items that were just not included with the plan
whatsoever.
So a couple years ago, I think it was actually two years ago, we had a little pandemic in
the middle. That kind of delayed things a little. Willdan Financial is the company that
does our development fee audits every two years. They also are the ones that helped us
with the user fee study. They're going to be looking at our Facilities Reserve Plan and
making the needed changes.
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We'll have an updated list of items included in the plan, revising the estimates of useful
life based on actual experience, have a more aggressive replacement cost so that we can
better fund those replacements when they come due. And then also putting together a
strategy as far as what we need to be included in the different years as far as when
expenses come up.
We're looking to have this finished in July. I actually got an email from Willdan this
morning for a phone call to kind of start looking at a project schedule. So we should
have that set.
MAYOR DICKEY: I'm sure that they are professional enough to take this into
consideration, but with the seven and a half percent inflation you were just talking about,
the fact that they're doing it now, I would imagine they'll have their own mathematical
formulas in there to mitigate that because that's not normal.
DIRECTOR POCK: Absolutely. It's definitely not normal. And hopefully it's not three,
four, five years out there either. But yes, it will be taken into account. That's for a fact.
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor and Council, this is really good news, and this is a -- I
think it's good timing to do this. As David was indicating, it's been a long time that we've
used this. My predecessor and the previous Council approved the current Facilities
Reserve Plan or program. And so it was really kind of ahead of its time because I know a
number of cities don't have these. So this is really good. A lot of cities do this pay as
you go or include these types of projects in their capital improvement programs. So this
is really good. It helps us kind of plan ahead so we can kind of budget appropriately for
replacements of major infrustruc -- I'm sorry -- major facilities.
So anyways, I think the timing is really good. And we did find that there were a number
of things missing from that. If there's no further questions, we'll move on to the next item
which is the proposed establishment of a culture and preservation commission. Ms.
Goodwin will be giving the presentation on this.
GOODWIN: Thanks, Grady. This one is a item that was actually brought forward by a
number of folks that were involved with our 50th anniversary, as we celebrated our 50th,
gosh, two Decembers ago now. I've lost count. The idea of the Fountain Hills heritage
and the preservation and sort of the significance of our different historic and cultural
landmarks has been brought forward. So there was a consideration to potentially develop
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a new commission that is focused around the cultural and preservation, cultural highlights
and preservation of our community.
Based on our other commissions and how they operate, this would be at the direction of
Council. The proposal would be to probably structure it similar to how most of our other
commissions are, with a seat of seven. And here are some suggested areas of focus: to
increase public awareness about our historic, cultural, and architectural preservations;
developing public education programs; and the like. We would work at looking at
national historic landmarks, and potentially national registered and historic places. If you
have any questions, this would really be at the will of Council if this is something that
Council has interest in.
MAYOR DICKEY: I just want to thank you for that. Looking forward to seeing how
that goes forward. We have several models to look at from other cities and it became
apparent, like you were saying, some of the organizations here in town have possession
of documents and photos, and started to say what should we do, you know, with them,
and talk to a museum, and I think this would be a good thing for us to do, especially
following the 50th that it came into play from several sources.
NB: Do you have people lined up to be part of that committee?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I think a number of folks that would be interested,
unfortunately, probably our, what I call, our sort of unofficial historian, Amy Arnold
would be a great model. However, I don't think she's currently a resident but is looking
to be back involved in some capacity. I think a number of our folks that served on our
50th committee would be interested in that as well.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. All right. Moving on.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. It's pass the mic between Rachel and I for a couple of
these I guess. I'm off, I'm on, off, I'm on. All right. So we talked about this earlier
today, it came up during some of the budget conversations. But just to give you an
update on the public services -- or public safety evaluations that are currently going on.
Matrix Consulting is doing the law enforcement evaluation. [RINGING] Was that
planned? [LAUGHTER] You're the next slide, okay. Relax. [LAUGHTER] The
consultant is Greg Matthews senior manager. I believe everybody on the Council's had a
�.
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chance to speak with him. Grady's had a meeting with him, I have, and has also talked to
Larry (ph.) at the same time. So right now they're going through the process of collecting
all the different documents and data from MCSO as far as, you know, areas of
responsibility, reports written, calls for services, data and that sort of thing, as well as
personnel information and staffing reports, and then some of the other management and
performance reports as well. They are in the process of setting up a town hall -style
meeting, trying to coordinate that. The estimated completion is late spring/earlier
summer. Hopefully, that will be done before Council breaks for the summer. That's the
goal.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Question.
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: We're going to get a report based upon Matrix Consulting
interviews, discussions. What's the purpose of the town hall -style meeting? What are -- I
mean, what are people going ask, or talk about, or --
DIRECTOR POCK: I think a lot of that goes back to what was during the first
presentation as far as satisfaction areas that, you know, I think, if I remember correctly
that was one of the main points, was MCSO, and levels of services, and what are they
doing to prevent crime, that kind of thing. Get that kind of information to be more
responsive to the community. Since kind of the underlying question with this study is are
we best served -- are the residents best served with continued contracts with MCSO
versus other options.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: That's the part that I don't know how the residents could
address that issue. I mean, everybody can have an opinion but they're not going to have
enough information to make a --
MANAGER MILLER: Vice Mayor, if I may. I mean, I think what we're really trying to
do is, this is really all about the transparency component, as David mentioned earlier.
We're wanting to find out what is it that they're doing well from a citizen standpoint
because these are the folks that call -- have the calls for service. They've also
experienced some level of maybe a personal involvement with either crime. So these are
things that I think is really good. We want to also find out what areas do they think that
they can improve on. So with these being outsourced services, we don't really hear
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about -- other than when they have a complaint that the Council receives -- we really
don't hear from the residents. So to your point, I'm not confident a lot's going to come
out of this, but I think it's more of the message that we're doing this to try to get some
feedback and input from residents, and that they'll be involved in it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Speaking of that, would you go over the qualifications of the folks
that are doing these evaluations because, obviously, this is something that is important,
that they have no motivations besides serving us, and giving us all the facts in a even-
handed way.
DIRECTOR POCK: That would be great. I know both of these were selected through an
RFP process, and I honestly can't remember the exact qualifications on the law
enforcement side. Do you, Grady, if -- I --
MANAGER MILLER: Well, David --
DIRECTOR POCK: I can't remember --
MANAGER MILLER: David and I have talked, and I know David's familiar. I'll let
David answer.
DIRECTOR POCK: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I reviewed all the contracts. As I stated in the Council
meeting when we were hiring these groups, all of these groups that put in for the contract
I believed were a little light in the law enforcement category and real heavy in bean
counters, no offense to you, no offense to you. [LAUGHTER] But there wasn't really
any of the people that responded that were more law enforcement then they were bean
counters. So on our initial -- the first time I spoke with Greg Matthews, I mean, I right up
front -- for those of you who know me, I don't sugarcoat anything. So as soon as he
picked up the phone and we began our conversation, I let him know that I thought that his
company was light in law enforcement and heavy in bean counters. He explained that
they have more people on staff that are not in their upper echelon but in the reviewing
process. Once you guys gather all the information it's run through him, and then as other
people that they have on staff, I believe they have a commander that was on the Seattle
PD, which is a pretty big department, a couple from California. You know, he said right
out front,we don't have anybody that was on Chicago or New York. I take a lot of credit
for, or a lot of, I guess, I hold people who have been in a major law enforcement
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organization a little more than a smaller department. But he was open to all of the issues
that I had with MCSO, and the problems that I saw we had. And I think -- I haven't seen
anything but I think we're going to get a fair report back. But like I said, none of the
people that applied, all of these contracts, all of their resumes, all of the people that are in
their upper echelon, none of them were more law enforcement than consultants and bean
counters. So maybe that's just the way it goes with these consulting companies, I don't
know, I've never called a consultant for anything. But it seemed like they were -- of all
the ones we picked, the one that is doing this had the most amount of law enforcement on
staff. So that's --
MANAGER MILLER: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: That's the only thing I can speak to.
MANAGER MILLER: Right. I think you summed it up very well, Council Member. I
would just add also that Matrix, I was familiar with Matrix. Matrix does a lot of these
for -- particularly in this state and in the western United States, particularly in California
where they have maybe cities that are newly incorporated that are looking at starting their
own law enforcement department. They are really tops in that area, or also doing the
kind of study we're doing, which is to ensure if we are outsourcing, are we getting the
value for what the Tax Mayor money is for this. So I do think that that's really good.
And then on the fire side, they were definitely -- the fire side definitely had people who
were qualified that worked primarily as fire personnel. I understand Council Member
Scharnow wanted to something. So I'll --
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: No. Just --
MANAGER MILLER: I'll stop.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. Just real quick. Getting back to the town
hall meeting. Is that something the consultant's going to run, or town, or --
MANAGER MILLER: Bo, myself will get together with the consultants to kind of talk
about what we want to do, what we -- we'd like to give them insight as to -- for instance,
we're going to provide the recent survey results that we just have so they have that for
police and fire. And I think what I would do is, I would say, hey, you know, based on
these results that were just recently -- came out of survey of our residents, do you feel
that these are accurate? You know, and have that be like the ice breaker, then get into
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some more detailed questions. But, no, we're going to be involved because I want to
make sure that we're getting at the right types of questions, and that we're not getting into
some areas that might not be appropriate for them to get into.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. And that's why I asked that because I could
see that kind of getting out of hand very quickly, so I think it's important whoever runs it
has a full understanding of the issues, and the background, and exactly what we want to
get out of the forum. So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yes, sir.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Actually, I'm for this town hall meeting. What I would
like to see is if Bo could somehow get the word out. As I stated before, we have huge,
huge population of retired residents that live here that were in law enforcement. And I
don't hang with firemen, but --
NB: I do. [LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: But we do have a lot of retired firemen here. I can
think of two retired captains that live in here that are New York fire department captains.
So I think it would be beneficial if we get the word out to retired law enforcement and to
retired fire department personnel to let them know that we're having these town hall
meetings. Because, God knows, anytime I've had a drink with them, they let me know all
the things I do wrong, and all the things MCSO does wrong. And so I'm sure they
weren't a part of that 94% satisfied because you'll never satisfy a cop. So but I think we
should include them. [LAUGHTER] And we should -- watch it. I think we should
include them because I think if they come to the meeting we'll make sure that we tell
them they have to be civilized, and if it's recorded to cut down on profanity, and invite
them, and have them come and get their ideas of what they could have to offer. I think it
would be beneficial.
MANAGER MILLER: And something we will run by them are the different service
delivery models too, just to your point.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right so then onto fire services kind of the same story. I know
on the fire side there was quite a bit more on duty experience, and a lot of captains, and
people that developed programs, and that sort of thing, so I do remember that. Craig
Haigh is the consultant from McGrath. Again, he's met with each one of you, all the
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major stake holders, he's visited neighboring departments, and got some different
information from them, got some information about like, the dispatch system, and the
TOPAZ system through Mesa, and that sort of thing. So he's done quite a bit of
background investigating. He will also be -- even though a town hall wasn't in their
contract, he will be invited to participate. And I haven't had that conversation with him
yet, I do assume that he would take up that invitation.
MANAGER MILLER: I actually had a -- I had a --
DIRECTOR POCK: Did you?
MANAGER MILLER: -- discussion with him and --
DIRECTOR POCK: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: -- he was open to it.
DIRECTOR POCK: Okay. Good.
MANAGER MILLER: So I do think it's going to happen.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. Again, estimated completion towards late spring or
earlier summer. I will take this opportunity to add, even though we did mention it
slightly before, and even though these evaluations weren't a part of the contract review
with MCSO, as Grady stated earlier, we have met with them, we're awaiting kind of their
review of our analysis of that number, and I guess we need have a follow up meeting with
him. But yeah. If there's any questions about that --
MAYOR DICKEY: The timing of this makes it -- we're not going to have -- so the
contracts, which are June 30, right? So we won't have this information in time for it to
affect our contracts; is that what we're saying?
DIRECTOR POCK: Right. I think that what's going to have to happen for this next
fiscal year as far as MCSO contract would be that we extend that one one year. I think
this is the third or fourth year for our Rural Metro contract, so it will renew.
NB: (Indiscernible) we're at the end of the fifth year. We have a two year -- we have two
two-year renewals.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. So again, the other thing was, I think maybe a year or so ago
we had the assessment done in the Marico -- or The Valley (ph.) I think, and that we had
tied the Gilbert ZIP code for the safest ZIP code in The Valley. Now that's probably not
current information, so if we could get maybe wherever that was from, which I know I
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have some place. If there's something current that we could -- because, obviously,
whatever that survey said, it did say that people feel safe and taken care of medically and
safety wise. So I want to keep that in mind and as all this conversation comes up to make
sure that people that are taking care of us know that we appreciate them.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So am I to understand that we won't have the final
audit by June?
DIRECTOR POCK: No, no. The contract review, not audit, but yeah. As far as those
results, we'll know. We already know what we've put into that report, we're waiting their
reply back from that. We won't be able -- we won't have the outcome of that contract
review into a new contract in time for July 1 st.
MANAGER MILLER: Which is what I just said earlier about doing it one year
extension.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Well, you said the word extension, I didn't know you
meant one year. Is there a way that we can have an extension pending the review, the
finalization of the review? I mean, could we get an extension with them for a couple
months until we have the review before we enter into a whole new contract that's going to
have 6% increase on all that?
MANAGER MILLER: So I'll let Aaron answer that. But [LAUGHTER] --
TOWN ATTORNEY ARNSON: See my attorney.
MANAGER MILLER: What we're trying to do is, we want to do the -- without having
an issue of having a disruption of service, we want to just go ahead and do the one year
extension, but the one year extension should have contract language in there that just says
that that will be superseded by the new contract. So whenever the new contract has terms
and conditions, and things that you're talking about would be referenced in that extension.
We don't know what the outcome is. I mean, we sort of know what we believe it to be,
but we don't know at this point. So I'll let Aaron --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Council.
MANAGER MILLER: He can probably respond to that better.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Mayor, the Councilman Town Manager said it pretty well.
That whatever the term of the extension is, you know, I don't know what MCSO will and
won't agree to. But certainly if they would agree to a lesser term, or if they would agree
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to year's term to just extend out our current status quo to be able to maintain that, and
then work -- roll whatever into a new contract, I think that's what we're going for.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: The question that Council Member McMahon asked, if it doesn't
take a year it will roll into the new contract, and I answered the affirmative yes. And
Council Members, this next item just kind of -- we touched upon it a little bit with the
financial review earlier. The finance director is going go through this brief presentation
and hopefully get your buy in to the staff recommendation before you.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. So everybody's seen these slides before. But as far as the
ARPA funding, American Rescue Plan Act, we were awarded $8.4 million to be
distributed over two years. We received $4.2 million in July, we're scheduled to receive
another 4.2 at the beginning of our fiscal year'23, which is July. We did touch on the
final rule, was just issued in January, so we know that we're going to be okay with how
we're spending those funds. Our entire award may be used to fund any governmental
service, which public safety obviously fits that category. Fiscal year'22, for the 4.2 that
we received, 80% is going towards the Rural Metro contract, 20% towards MCSO. I am
suggesting that we just do the same just to keep things simple. I don't want to throw our
auditors too much of a curve ball year to year, so let's just keep it the same. The
Resulting General Fund savings for fiscal year'22 and'23 will be used based on your
decisions. And these are the potential uses. So we did -- Council approved up to
$300,000 to be used for not -for -profit grants. In the current fiscal year that program is
currently under way and Eric Procknow (ph.) is working with that, so I know a few
checks have gone out already. I don't know if we'll get close to actually spending
$300,000, that just depends.
NB: Can you define what non-profit means for that?
DIRECTOR POCK: I believe the final decision was that anything that fell under the 501.
MANAGER MILLER: No.
DIRECTOR POCK: Not --
MANAGER MILLER: It's --
DIRECTOR POCK: There's multiple --
MANAGER MILLER: There's like 14 or 15 different categories of 501 s. It was pretty
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much all those organizations because we fraternal organizations like Lions Club, and then
we have civics organizations. So we erred on the side of being broader.
DIRECTOR POCK: All right. And then we had kind of set aside $100,000 to be used
for any pandemic related unforeseen things that might come up this fiscal year. So far we
haven't used those funds. And then this comes into what we had spoke about earlier as
far as streets. The remaining $8 million could be added to the Streets Fund to supplement
existing baseline budgets for fiscal year'23 and '24. This additional funding would
increase the Streets Fund budget to almost $10 million for the next two years. Unspent
fund balance at the year-end gets -- as far as the Streets Fund goes -- unspent fund
balance at year-end gets carried over to the next fiscal year and can be used in subsequent
Streets Fund budgets. So it's not like the general fund where if there's something left over
it gets sent off to the Capital Projects Fund or something like that. Streets Fund rolls year
to year. So that $10 million that we allocate for two fiscal years, if it's not spent in those
two fiscal years, it'll get spent the next year. So we know that that's --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: That's a lot of money for Streets, and that includes the 3
million you mentioned earlier or not?
DIRECTOR POCK: So we had 3.9 budgeted for pavement maintenance with this --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: So --
DIRECTOR POCK: -- current fiscal year.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: So potentially almost $14 million, is what you're saying?
DIRECTOR POCK: So if we take and add 8 million to I'm assuming that next year's
Street, I think our base budget for pavement maintenance was 2.5, if I'm not -- so that
would 5 plus the 8 million would actually be 13 total ---
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I don't know --
DIRECTOR POCK: -- for two fiscal years.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I don't know how we publicize that but we should try to
figure out a way to get that out. The citizens --
DIRECTOR POCK: Yes.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- you know, they're always complaining about streets,
they said it was a top priority on the survey, we have to get that out. That's a lot of
money and I would just ask staff, and Bo, and whatever -- yeah.
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MANAGER MILLER: So if I may, Ginny, just to add to that. So I want to let you
know, obviously next item on the agenda is an update from the Citizen's Committee on
long term street needs. But I do want to let you know since we're talking about this
particular topic, last week they met, and they were aware that the Council was going to be
talking about use of the ARPA savings to pay for streets, and they voted unanimously to
endorse that. So I mean, obviously this appears to be consensus here, but they wanted to
let you know that they wholeheartedly approve that, and hope that you take that into
consideration.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Again, I hope we can get the word out --
MANAGER MILLER: We will.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: --somehow.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Can Rachael get her umbrella? [LAUGHTER]
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, speaking of that --
MANAGER MILLER: A little cocktail one.
MAYOR DICKEY: Do we know what we're going to get from the infrastructure bill?
No.
DIRECTOR POCK: I haven't heard anything from the league since the initial -- it was
passed on --
MAYOR DICKEY: So --
MANAGER MILLER: They're waiting --
DIRECTOR POCK: -- on where that's at.
MANAGER MILLER: -- for official guidance on it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: Other than that fact that we know it's broken into several
different categories of, you know, bridges, and transit, and roads, and highways.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Yeah. Because the -- I don't know what sort of limitations
are going to be put on that, they may not know we have a fountain. But you know, if it's
a infrastructure issue, to go back to what David said, and we, you know, we put the
million aside, if we wanted to put a little bit more towards the fountain I would imagine
when we got that infrastructure money we could do that. You know, it seems like it
would align with it.
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DIRECTOR POCK: If I remember correctly, that was going to be administered through
the state, right?
MANAGER MILLER: That's correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Oh, the state.
DIRECTOR POCK: So at least --
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah.
DIRECTOR POCK: -- we'll have some local -- somebody that might have an idea of our
needs. So --
MANAGER MILLER: And I think what we may do is, we have several different
options. One would be they're going to have, like, sewer and wastewater grants as well
through the infrastructure bill. So that might be the route to go because there --
MAYOR DICKEY: Mm-hmm.
MANAGER MILLER: -- might be fewer applicants for that kind of money.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's true. So is this going right into the committee discussion, the
roads committee, or is that separate?
MANAGER MILLER: The infrastructure?
MAYOR DICKEY: The Citizen Committee, are we doing that now or is that the next
issue?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: That's the next one.
MANAGER MILLER: The next issue.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: But it's going to be up for discussion.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: I was just going to say real quick too, another use
might be for the storm water management stuff too, and the improvements we need to do.
MANAGER MILLER: Very good.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: You know.
MANAGER MILLER: Usually they will fund the projects but not the studies. So as
much as we can get design work done so it's ready to go, shovel ready. So if I could have
the remote. Oh, I have it. Yeah. So as I mentioned a year ago we started this process
with the Citizen Committee. We recommended that the Council consider a Citizen
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Committee to study and evaluate our condition of our streets, and to develop a plan to
address the long term needs. Last summer we advertised in the local newspaper, and we
had a number of residents -- we actually had more than 13 residents apply, we had closer
to 16 or 17, but a number of them were seasonal residents and they dropped out. But just
want to make it very clear, all 13 who actually were able to participate were invited to
participate on the committee. In other words, no one was interviewed, everybody was
invited to the very first meeting, and everybody has stayed on with this process ever since
then. We've been meeting since September. Initially it was trying to get the committee
members up to speed about our pavement management plan, and also to have a better
understanding about how we budget for streets. We looked at Maricopa Association of
Governments, and the fact that we get a lot of money through them for a lot of our
projects, and we also talked about strategies. Just to let you know that the committee is
currently going to be meeting its objectives, I believe, to be presenting to you their
findings in April or May. What we're waiting for right now is IMS, the firm that town
utilizes to actually maintain our data base, they were given basically three different --
actually four different strategies. The $8 million just talked about from the ARPA
savings show us what we can get for that, and we were looking at primarily arterials and
collector streets. Then we also asked, since $8 million was the most recently successful
bond program for streets that was the Saguaro (ph.) back in'14, we asked them to do an
$8 million, $10 million, and $12 million just to kind of see what we could with that kind
of funding, and what streets we'd be able to undertake. So right now we're waiting for
that. They should be presenting that in two weeks, actually next week we'll be getting the
results from them, and we'll share recommended street segments that we can do with that.
So the committee is very committed, they're a very good mix of people from business
owners to engineers, public works people, marketing. I'm very proud of this group.
They're very savvy and they are working very well together as a team. And so I'm very
hopeful that they will not only address our 20 year needs, but also the one area that I've
had concern all along is, I don't believe we have a large enough budget relating to the
street maintenance, you know, the annual maintenance that we spend each year. So
they're going to look at all these different street long term needs, they're also going to
look at funding options, and if the report that they give you in May -- they'll presenting a
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report to the Council with their findings and their recommendations. With that, I'd be
happy to answer any questions that Council may have.
MAYOR DICKEY: Just want a little history here. So last -- I mean, not last -- June of
2020 was when we unanimously as a council passed the pavement management plan, so
that's what we're --
MANAGER MILLER: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- working off of. In February at our last retreat we talked about
putting $2 million of CARES money into roads, which we did. Then last September we
talked about, you know, the idea of bond possibly, and --
MANAGER MILLER: Mm-hmm.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- that it was one time use, but then several of us, Vice Mayor and
Gerry, we -- Councilman Friedel -- we talked about credibility, and how we don't want
to necessarily be sitting on a ton of money for the liner, and then go out for bond for a
road. So I think that we have a lot of moving parts here, but this $8 million over two
years is almost enabling us to put off the $3 million shortfall we have every year and how
we take care of our roads. So I wanted to make sure that we kept that in mind and remind
you of the discussions that we had already had.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: In today's presentation, question 16 is, would you
support a bond referendum to raise funds to help improve streets? 60% of the people that
answered said yes. So I thought that was interesting.
NB: Until you tell them how much.
MANAGER MILLER: The next presentation is going to be tag teamed by both the town
attorney and development services director. And John, I do have the remote here. I don't
know who's going to do most of the speaking. Yeah. We added this item on here. This
was something that's been planned for a few months, and the timing is really very good.
As you know, the planning and zoning's been dealing with this for probably the last going
on three months. But the community's been dealing with this considerably longer. So I
think it's very good knowing that this is going to be coming up before the Council in the
very near future. With that, I'll go ahead and turn it over to the development services
director, John Wesley.
WESLEY: Okay. Mayor and Council. Turning to less numeric driven discussion topics
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that I know some people are excited to talk about here, the things I'll be bringing up.
Yes. So let's see. Which way did I -- here we go. So a quick overview. Mr. Millers's
already kind of mentioned that we've been discussing now for about a year, off and on,
these topics of detox centers and group homes in the town. The ordinance currently does
not provide any direct guidance with regard to detox facilities -- and this went off. Green
lights on. Can you hear me? I just need to be a little closer. Okay. With regard to the
detox facilities. So that's a new item for our zoning ordinance to consider. Oh, there's a
sweet spot in here, I'm either too close or too far, so I'll try to get it. We do have group
homes currently in our zoning ordinance. The P and Z Commission, after hearing the
discussions as we talked about hospitals and hearing from the community, decided it's
important to go ahead and start to specifically direct work on those two items. So we're
working with them currently with focus initially on the group home piece, and then we'll
be following up with the detox. Today I want to give you a quick overview on both of
those and what they are. Wrong direction on the buttons, there we go. So with regard to
detoxification. It is a medical procedure. There are concerns in the community that this
is taking place in residences, or that we might be proposing that it would take place in
residences, but it's not. It's a medical procedure that should take place in a commercial
locations, often in (indiscernible) whether it's a major or minor --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Excuse me. Back up --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yes. I will back up.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: -- a little bit. We're getting a --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: I'll back up and I'm afraid can't hear me at all. So it's kind of --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Well, we're getting a whatever -- an echo.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Let me try one of these other microphones again. We'll see.
Okay. Maybe this won't be quite so sensitive and I can get in that spot back here that's a
little easier to hear. Yeah. That's better for me too. Thank you. So there are generally
two types of detoxes that go on. Outpatient, which can take place in a typical medical
office. Often times people, you know, go home, and whatever in the evenings, or go to
the office and get whatever level of medical care they need while they detox. Or there's
the more significant inpatient type, overnight stay detox. And so we'll be looking at both
of those as we talk about this type of activity. As I've looked around various city
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ordinances to see how other towns and cities handle them, very few I've found that
address them specifically. And as I've talked to the people in the cities, they just treat
them as other medical type facilities, medical offices. But we'll be looking at that here in
our community again. They're starting to pick up on that issue specifically. But again,
we recognize it is a commercial activity, it's not a residential activity. It should not
happen in residential districts. So the one we've been tackling more specifically
currently, the group home issue. We've allowed for group homes in Fountain Hills since
our very first ordinance back 1993. Interestingly, those ordinances have not changed any
since that time. But I think we're seeing some changes in the industry, particularly over
the last five years or so as the sober living type homes, the drug treatment facilities have
grown. They're a little bit different then maybe where they started with more of the
senior housing type of activities, so there is a need for updating and revising that
particular piece of our ordinance. Currently we have 13 licensed and registered homes
within Fountain Hills. When someone wants to license or register a home with the town,
they usually start off coming into our office to see if it meets the separation requirements.
If it does, then they proceed with actually making an application. In that application
there's certain information that we ask for to understand what type of home they will be
operating, and to ensure they're meeting some of our very basic ordinance requirements.
You can see that list of items. And then once they submit their application, the building
official and the fire marshal do an inspection on the home to make sure it meets the basic
life -safety requirements. If they find anything that needs to be done, we require those to
be brought up to the code requirements, and signed off on by the fire marshal and/or
building official before we actually complete registration process and put them on our
map. We have a little bit of a catch-22 with the state because the state requires that they
show they've complied with the local zoning, and we require that they have the license,
so we both want the same thing at the same time. So often what happens is we'll go
ahead and give them a provisional or temporary registration while they finish their state
license procedure, but they're required then to bring that license in and update it to show
that they do have that license. If that doesn't happen, then we go back to them.
MAYOR DICKEY: So I recently heard that they don't need a business license, is that
true?
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DIRECTOR WESLEY: So that's -- we have been requiring a business license. As we
have discussed this, as we've gotten into a little bit more of the details with our attorneys,
and discussing how we're updating the ordinance, there some question about whether we
really should be requiring that on a individual home. The business operating the facility
should have at least one, but do they or don't they for each house, that's something we'll
be continuing to investigate. Since the three years that I have been here, so it's
knowledge I have directly, there were two sober living homes that we were aware of
when I started. We have since relocated both of those and in addition added two more
sober living homes. There was one assisted living home that has been modified during
that time, and I think it was allowing seven or eight, and they upped that to the ten that's
the maximum allowed. And we've added one more assisted living home. So basically
we've added one per year in the three years that I've been here on average. So this starts
the transition into Aaron's portion of it talking about the purpose of the homes and some
of the legal requirements, but they are an option that's available through federal Fair
Housing and the Americans with Disabilities Act to give folks with a disability the
opportunity to find housing that they need that supports them, and helps them in their
process of addressing their disability, overcoming that disability, getting integrated back
into the community. And a more common term that's being used these days is that of
community residence. And so you'll probably be seeing that in the future as we move
forward with any text changes. So with that, I'll turn it over to Mr. Arnson.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Thank you, Director Wesley.
MAYOR DICKEY: Mr. Vice Mayor.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Just one question. Once they get the license and go into
operation, what if they get lax in terms of meeting the requirements, is there any way to
follow up on a regular basis?
WESLEY: Mayor, Vice Mayor, I'm going to come back to that topic. At the end we'll
talk a little bit about some of the enforcement options that we have.
ARNSON: Mayor, Council, thank you for the opportunity to meet with you today. We'll
go through fairly briefly some of the legal requirements that apply to these. The reason
why I'm going to be fairly brief today is because we expect to have an executive session
to advise the Council on legal requirements where we can get into some of the attorney's
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recommendations with respect to where we go from here. So we won't delve into that
with the same depth that we will in a privileged setting.
But in general, what you're looking at when you have either a group home, or a
community residence, or a detox setting is two laws that sort of operate coextensively
with each other. You have the Fair Housing Act which, of course, applies to prohibit
discrimination in the sale or rental of residences based on race, or religion, or color. Or
in this instance, the statute uses the term "handicap".
Likewise, you have the ADA, which has been in effect for many decades that prohibits
discrimination on the basis of disability.
As far as the protections are concerned under either of those statutes, they overlap to a
significant degree. So when we talk about the protections afforded by one, particularly
the ADA, we're talking about the protections afforded by the other. So when we talk
about legal protections, just be advised that we're kind of talking about regulations that
operate similarly.
In terms of the main point of both of these federal statutes, these statutory schemes, are to
integrate individuals into the community. And what you see in the case law that shakes
out is this constant tension between serving a legitimate governmental purpose and
ensuring -- serving a legitimate governmental purpose of maintaining quality of life,
versus making sure that individuals are able to be adequately integrated into the
community. And you get this tenson about what caps can be put on number of people in
homes, and distancing requirement between homes, and what's too close, and what's too
far apart. Because if they're too close, then you get a clustering problem. And if they're
too far apart, then you don't get a significant enough level of integration into the
community.
And so you'll see these case -by -case decisions being made about -- that are unique to the
facts and circumstances of each community and each location.
So in general though -- John, if you may want to advance to next -- sure, we'll stick there
for a second.
In general though, what you're looking at with whether under ADA or FHA; particularly
FHA with regard to residences, ADA with regard to detox facilities, is ensuring that we
put caps that will reach that happy medium. That's the main goal that we're trying to
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reach here with any of these regulations. You can't have them be too low, and we'll go
through what regulations are allowed. You can't have them be too high because, at that
point, you start to go against what the actual purpose of the ADA and FHA are, which is
creating a more concentrated type of environment.
I believe here in Fountain Hills, we define single family as being able to have up to four
unrelated individuals in a home.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Mayor, council, Mr. Arnson, currently we don't have a cap on
that.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Okay.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: That's one of things we're proposing to change as we do
this amendment.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Okay. (Indiscernible). Thanks.
So regardless, what you need to make sure we do is create that minimum level of
occupancy high enough where it allows for a concentration of individuals living in these
homes that will, you know, allow enough capacity for people to be able to occupy the
spaces. And then at the top level, that maximum is usually around that 10 to 12 so that
you don't have that density concentration problem that we were talking about earlier.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Excuse me. Question.
Is there a square footage issue?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: There are square footage issues. And usually the way that we
address that is not so much with square footage but rather with like capacity in bedrooms.
Go ahead, John. Yeah.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Mayor, Vice Mayor, there are both options in there. Some
communities regulate and say you can't have more than two per bedroom.
In the building code, there are some minimum sizes. They are fairly minimal. I probably
don't have these exactly right, but as I recall from talking with our building official, I
believe the first person needs at least 250 square feet and then 100 square feet per person
thereafter as a minimum size for a dwelling unit up to a maximum of 16 individuals
through the building code that could be in a home.
So again, do that math, it's not a very big dwelling that could allow that 10 to 12 people.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Just based on what you said, I would think that square
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footage might be advisable because you can have a very tiny bedroom with two people in
it. It's just something to look at.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah. And to be clear, what we're talking about here, I kind of
transitioned without making clear. We're now talking about community residences
specifically on this slide, okay?
So we do have the ability under the ADA and the FHA to set reasonable zoning
regulations, reasonable zoning restrictions. Particularly, spacing requirements. Again,
it's that sort of -- we're looking for that not too cold, not too hot, just right effect. Trying
to look for what will integrate folks into the community versus concentrating them in one
particular area. We see ranges between 800 feet and 1,300-ish feet. I believe our
separation is currently set at 1,200 feet or as proposed.
We also are allowed to limit those uses for community residences to residential uses.
Detox uses, to be clear, are not permitted in residential zones. Likewise, although
incidental medical treatment may be permitted, that more serious and intensive activity
that would normally take place in a medical facility is not what's permitted and that's not
what we're talking with respect to community residences.
The last slide is what regulation is allowed. We take registration of group homes. One of
the issues that we have run into and what was brought up before the planning and zoning
commission, is that the State of Arizona has preempted local regulation on group -- on
sober living homes specifically. And so they are the ones that handle the application and
inspection process. The cities and towns have quite significantly been removed from that
process.
So what we're left with is intaking information from the applicant at time of registration
with the city and town.
John, do you have anything else that you want to add to this?
WESLEY: Yes, just a little bit.
In looking at how the state regulates the sober living home, using that as an example of
something we may be able to do a little bit better because we look at code of limits. They
do require that somebody providing for a sober living home must submit as part of the
application packet contact person, in case there are any complaints. And basically, what
I've stated here is a good neighbor policy that talks about how they will handle issues
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such as loitering, and smoking, trash, you know, whatever number of issues. And then
supposedly, somebody has an issue, they can get in touch with that contact person.
That doesn't seem to be working very well for the state. When I've asked them about it,
they don't really make that information available. There's no reason we can't require the
same information then be supplied to us if they're suppling to the state. And then if
somebody contacts us, that gives us one of those enforcement capabilities then to contact
that person and have them address the issue that's been presented. So we can --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Would we be able to do that ourselves or would we have
to report that to the state?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: No. We would do that ourselves, is my thought in working on
a --
ATTORNEY ARNSON: No, I tend to agree with that.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: And I think -- no. That really was the last one. I thought there
was one more on here.
But coming back to the Vice Mayor's question. Currently, we don't have any renewal
requirement with our group homes. So that's one of the things that we are proposing that
have an annual renewal requirement; gives us a chance to see if they've had any issues
over the last year. Make sure they still have their state license, that it's still in effect and
ensure that they are operating.
One of the questions, concerns we've had is how do we really verify in the home that
they've only got 10 people and not 12 or 15? How do we know they're not doing some of
these treatments in the home itself?
Unfortunately, we don't have the right of entry. And so it's like any other type of activity.
We can't really go in the home to see what happens there specifically. So there has to be
some level of, you know, observation that goes on from the outside; some level of trust
that has to be built up and so forth with the operators; input from the neighbors as they
observe. They can see it more regularly than we do. That might give us some
opportunity to investigate or raise questions or concerns and we can fall back to the state
because they do have the right of entry into the homes, sober living home or anything
that's licensed through them. They would have those rights.
So it's going to be a group effort. It won't be a perfect effort, unfortunately, to try and
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keep these in close compliance as we can.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Maybe I didn't understand what you just said, but if
there's complaint from homeowners, is there any recourse?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: For things that happen on the exterior of the home, we have
fairly easy recourse on that. Are they allowing junk or debris to buildup again? If we
have that good neighbor policy that says they're not going to allow the people that live
there to loiter in the yard and up and down the street. When we see that happening, we
can have some enforcement on things like that that are visible. But things that happen
inside the house that we can't see, that becomes more difficult.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: What if it's noise? We can (indiscernible) --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: We have noise ordinance would apply there like it would
anyplace else.
MAYOR DICKEY: That's the key: like anyplace else.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: Question. If a business is advertising that in a -- what we would
consider, a community residence or a sober home that there is some medical -- more
intensive medical treatment happening, just by seeing that advertisement; can we do
anything?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: So first of all, you're talking about in a community residence
itself if it's advertised that that's happening?
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Like saying go to this address and you'll get X, Y, Z
treatment and we already know that that is not -- so we don't have to go in to see that but
that's it's been actually advertised that would be happening there.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I see. Assuming that's correct, that that's actually happening in
the residence and not at a separate facility and then they're sort of shuttling back between
facility and residence to distinguish between those. I would think that wouldn't be
something if it's that more intense use that should be happening and we would have to
report that to the State of Arizona. So yes, I think the answer is yes.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Could we handle their license then?
MAYOR DICKEY: Gerry, did you (indiscernible)?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I'm sorry. Could we revoke their license then or do we
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have to wait for it go through a process? Get something back from the state?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Well, in order to revoke any government benefit --
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Right.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: -- we'd have to demonstrate that they were out of compliance --
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Right.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: -- with it. But yes, there would have to be a process for us.
Whether it's for our local licensing--
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Um -hum.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: -- or through the state.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Okay. Thank you.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: And if you don't mind just really quick, I'm going to jump in and
make sure we use the terminology correctly.
The state licenses. We simply register the homes. We can keep track of the distances
and know where they are, and have the contacts, and that type of thing.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: So we're not allowed entry into these homes. Is the
state on an annual basis? I mean, what if you have a home that's so entangled, it's a fire
trap? What about the fire marshals going in and taking a look on an annual basis?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: So with regard to the fire inspection, I can turn that over to the
fire chief. I think there may be some opportunity for that. But just as a general rule, we
just want to randomly knock on the door and go in to see if they've got 10 people living
there, that's the type of thing the town wouldn't have the ability to do, but I do believe the
state could.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: So that could be something that could be done with the
renewal if we chose to go down that route.
Now you also talked about reasonable zoning requirements. So if we take some of the
things that planning and zoning have suggested and we incorporate them into our zoning,
are we anticipating some kind of a legal challenge?
And if so, are we going to have a legal defense fund or something to be prepared for that?
Because everything will be tested at some point.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Yeah. Everything could be tested. And it's entirely possible
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that it would.
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My advice, at this point, would be if we could hold off on that discussion until March
15th.
[LAUGHTER]
ATTORNEY ARNSON: That might be ideal. For the simple reason that because
although I have certain predications and expectations about what may or may not happen,
I would feel more comfortable sharing them in a privileged setting if that's all right.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Well, then getting back to the scenario the mayor
brought up as far as advertising and following up on that, I mean, we're basically -- have
our hands tied and we're depending on the state to follow through on any kind of
investigation, or penalty, or whatever, right?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: It is -- unfortunately, the best answer I can give you,
Councilman, is that it a challenging area for local municipalities to deal with. Because,
as we've stated earlier, the State has decided that they are going to regulate this at a State
level. The degree to which they allocate resources for inspectors and for those types of
things it's -- yeah, determined at a State level.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: And if I remember correctly, there's one guy for the
state? For the whole state?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I have heard that. I don't know that.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Oh.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Let me confirm. There is one inspector. One for the
entire state of Arizona. His job duties are to license and inspect these facilities first and
foremost. Secondly, is complaints.
So what do you think are the chances of when we complain, he's going to get around to
dropping his inspections and everything that he does, and by the way, these facilities are
inspected one time a year? So it's absolutely imperative when we construct this and we
vote on this, that we have something that's airtight.
And if we face the possibility of some type of legal action, it's well in our best interest to
protect the residents. And if that's what happens, that's what happens. You can sue a
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ham sandwich. You can indict a ham sandwich. So that's just the way it is.
So let's not be worried about if something could happen down the road, if we face legal
action. We can't always base our decisions when we're up here on, oh, maybe we're
going to get sued. If it happens, it happens.
But I just want to stress, if we rely on the State of Arizona to do our inspections and to try
to catch these people doing things, forget about it. There's one guy for the entire State of
Arizona and his job is to do all of what I just told you. So making a complaint and
hoping he comes out is not a good plan.
MAYOR DICKEY: It sounds almost like, as far as enforcing, is we're very limited on
what we can do. So I'm hoping that when we see what comes about, there'll be options
there for us.
But you're absolutely right. You know, I just looked at the general plan and just try to
remind ourselves on why we're here; maintaining the quality of existing neighborhoods,
preventing intensification of uses.
It's really along the same lines of the short-term rentals, anything else that infers with,
you know, your own ability to enjoy own home.
And it's not to say that, you know, we all have people or opportunity to have people that
live by us that, you know, there may be things that we like or don't like, but if there are
ways with this or with short -terms rentals, or with anything else, and then I know we're
going to talk about the zoning gaps, but that's part of our responsibility.
And I wanted to ask you something, Aaron. This process which is, you know, we looked
at zoning that kind of came up with the hospital; it's come up with other things before that
weren't specifically spelled out.
And John, I think you said in some places detox centers aren't specifically spelled out.
But a year ago, when we broached the subject of detox zoning, we were, you know,
pretty attacked because it looked like we were trying to set a path for it rather than
control it, I guess for lack of a better word, just like we did with, you know, adult
entertainment and things like that where you want -- and vaping, which you know, little
by little they trying to prevent us from regulating also.
But if you want to set a gap but there's an active business looking to do that, what kind of
risk -- and I hear you, David, but don't you have a risk of looking like you're quickly
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trying to narrow the zoning when you know somebody wants to do that particular
business?
Like if we knew that someone wanted to open a vaping place and all of sudden we said,
well they can only be, you know, on one block, you know, in wherever. Is that
something that's a little bit risky?
ATTORNEY ARNSON: Perhaps it's something that's a little bit risky. I think in most
instances, and John is on the, you know, applicant side of it more than I am, but the way
that I've experienced it is in a lot of these issues when you don't have something that's in
place, kind of like what happened with the hospital situation, you attempt to work with
the applicant to determine an acceptable location. And then -- so that you don't have this
confluence of their application with new zoning regulations at one time, and so you'll be
able to come to some sort of a happy medium with the applicant and then put those on a
going forward --
MAYOR DICKEY: Um-hmm.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: --basis into place. So that's how I've kind of experienced them
playing out.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yes. Pretty similar with specifically with the detox. At the
time, looking through what we have in our ordinances, when it was developed when --
how long detox faculties as a general item have been around. You know, I determined
that it wasn't a specific use. If we wanted to allow for it, we should have been in the code
for it.
Since then, we have had further discussions that have maybe suggested that was a little
bit more, I don't know, optimistic on my part that we could be forced a little bit more into
just fitting it in as we do a lot of other uses. Because our code certainly doesn't list every
use --
MAYOR DICKEY: Um-hmm.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: -- that goes on out there. I'm always trying to say, okay, where
would that use fit?
And so, you know, coming back to what Mr. Arnson said, we are better off figuring it out
just calmly and rationally versus we being forced into something maybe we have less
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ability to really think it through how we want it. So --
MAYOR DICKEY: Which is exactly what we were trying to do --
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Correct.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- a year ago.
And again, we can't think of everything that's going to come our way but it's good to be
prepared. And we can't out and out ban anything. When we found that with the
recreational marijuana that if they hadn't put that in to allow, we wouldn't have been able
to do that either.
So I think it's very complex and I believe that most people are on the same page for all
this.
David?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: You took my point.
I was going to take a trip down memory lane with you, Councilor. And that trip begins
with Prop 208. When we knew and the scent was in the wind --
[LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- ha-ha.
And that we thought that Prop 208 was going to pass, the old council, not just the senior
council members that are currently up here along with the old council, took action ahead
of this by saying that we weren't going to allow marijuana sales in our town. And the old
council was completely on board with that. And you could remember the backlash from
the owner who gave us a tongue lashing up here about how we were going to miss him
when he was gone.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I do remember.
[LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: And I have to be honest with you, I don't miss him a
bit.
MAYOR DICKEY: But David, again, we were only allowed to do that because it was in
the law that voters passed. We would not have been able to ban it if we didn't get that
door open in time.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Right. I'm not saying we're banning -- I'm not saying
we're banning. I'm just saying that we're thinking ahead. That's all.
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I'd like to use -- I'm --
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MAYOR DICKEY: Well don't say --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I don't like your terminology. I like my terminology
much better. We're thinking ahead. We're doing this preemptive. So not to discriminate
against anybody. We're just preemptively looking out for the town.
That's your point to agree with me.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. I --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. Because David always speaks these things into existence.
[LAUGHTER]
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: No. I totally agree with that and that's why, I
mean, to listen to the dialogue that's been going on for almost the past year has just been
very frustrating because we have been proactive as we could be on this issue and doing
all the research, and the legal background. And no, we shouldn't be afraid of lawsuits
necessarily, but we have to go about this in a practical manner, in a calm manner, and all
of that.
And there's a certain process that we have with these types of things as far as going
through planning and zoning, and then coming back to us. And so there's, you know,
public hearings, and time frames, and postings that need to be followed.
So I just -- you know, to just to say that we're not listening to the people or we're trying to
push something in favor detox, all this rhetoric out there is just, you know.
I don't get as upset as David does, but this is very frustrating to me in terms of how this
has been framed as we're the bad guys, you know?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I agree with that. And I would say that once we meet in
executive session, we might have a clearer understanding of what we can and can't do,
and what the chances of litigation are, or wining in litigation.
ATTORNEY ARNSON: I would anticipate that that will be the case. Thank you.
[Pause]
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Ready for me to begin? Okay.
So another item that I was asked to give the Council an update on is in regard to town
court updates. We've been busy with them over the last two or three years that I've been
here. And looking at some of the gaps we have in our ordinances are things that could
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use some improvement over time.
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So here's a list of some of things that you all have tackled over the last couple of years;
very fun topics along the way, but there's always more.
Some items that we've recognized that we think are missing, could be handled in the
code. A lot of them had to do with parking; that's what's on my mind at the moment
because we're doing a comprehensive update to the parking chapter of the code.
And so, for example, we don't deal with bicycle parking. We don't deal with electric
vehicle charging. I think some that maybe coming up are the autonomous vehicles and
how those get handled; and where they're allowed to load and unload, and those types of
things.
Then, for some reason I separated one of the parking ones: maximum parking. Some
communities set a maximum parking amount, not just minimums so you don't park year
around for the holiday rush. And so you don't get so much paved surface. So that's an
item that may come up in --
In our zoning ordinance, currently, we reference little bit about administrative use
permits. The terminology comes up and we issue some administrative use permits but it's
not clearly defined currently in our ordinance what an administrative use permit is. And
so that's a gap that's there that we need to bring into our actual practice.
And then other things that are kind of there already but could use some update that we've
recognized. Updating our minimum parking requirements. We've had that discussion
here several times as some site plans have come through, and people wanted to adjust that
minimum requirement.
Our solid waste requirements, I think, are a little behind, and we don't mention recycling
at all in there.
Our temporary use permits, again, is not clear currently in our code.
We've also mentioned, I didn't put it on here, our special use permit has a time limit of
applicant building permit within six months of getting approval. That's probably too
short of a time frame because very few of them meet that. So we might want to adjust
that.
The use categories -- currently our zoning ordinances, we rely on a very specific list of
land uses. That's always changing, and things get out of date. So I think we'd be better
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served -- a lot of communities have gone to use categories and so you kind of lump some
things and describe things by category. It makes it easier later to adjust as things change.
And then our landscaping ordinance, it's in the subdivision regulation. It's very confusing
how you apply to that a site plan put in context of subdivisions. And so that's another
update that we've identified would benefit the town if we could make that switch.
There will likely be more things. Part of the idea was, you know, what are some of
things, what are the gaps? What are we missing?
We don't really necessarily recognize those gaps until somebody brings a question, brings
a use, or activity we hadn't quite thought of and then we say, oh that's not covered very
well. So there could be more things that come along, but these are things that staff has
identified currently that we either are working on or anticipate working on over the next
months or years.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: John, your comment about use permits being six months
maybe too short.
I have been so annoyed by people coming before us and asking for use permits. And we
hear these big presentations, and we have these debates, and these discussions. And we
finally approve a use permit, and nothing happens. Nothing happens.
So personally, I don't think six months is too short. If they can't get their act together and
start moving on a property in six months, then I think this is a problem.
MANAGER MILLER: So the next item has to do with the enforcement actions since the
Council adopted the updated sign ordinance.
So this is of interest to the Council because I know you're just kind of curious how things
are going. So we just thought that we'd just check in with you. And John will be giving
you a brief presentation on this.
John?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Yes.
Okay. So as you're all maybe painfully aware, back last May you had the opportunity to
approve a new sign ordinance, which we then immediately worked on some
modifications with regard to the temporary signs that you approved in November.
And so in that updated ordinance, there were very few changes to the permit sign
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regulations. That stayed largely as is.
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More impacted was the temporary signs. That was largely due to one of the mains
reasons we were doing to code update and that was the redecision that no longer allows
us to regulate signs by content. So we had to switch it all over to regulations that were
based on time, place, manner, size, location, number, those kinds of things.
And so that's been in place now for a couple of months. And we've updated our website
to help direct people to where the changes are and easily direct them to the parts of the
code that they would need to look at to understand that when working with the chamber
and individuals in terms of what those requirements are.
So we have set up in the system for people for the few times where they do need to apply
for permits, they can do so online like anything else they apply for permits for.
In this time, we've had one application for a banner sign permit that's been approved.
We're expecting another one any day now because of the banner that's been up that needs
to be brought into compliance. And we've have had no A -frame sign permits at this
point.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: No A -frame sign permits. That means that people are
obeying the regulations, doing it on private property, or back a certain amount of space
and so on?
DIRECTOR WESLEY: So Mayor, Vice Mayor, I couldn't say 100 percent that all the A -
frames that you see out there meet the code. I have not seen any; our code enforcement
has not identified any; nobody's complained about them. But that doesn't mean haven't
actually seen --
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: All right.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: -- somebody that's not in compliance.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Good to hear.
DIRECTOR WESLEY: Okay. Just in general, with regard to enforcement; this comes
back a little to one of Councilmember Spelich's comments earlier, and how we do work
with not only sign enforcement, but enforcement in general. You know, we do deal
largely off of complaints, and we do get complaints about signs, and we do address those.
With regard to the temporary signs, that's where we take our highest degree of proactive
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enforcement, in terms of enforcement activities, with our code enforcement officer who
works some combination of Friday, Saturday, Sunday. He rotates those up, so you never
know exactly which of those three days he's working, but about 50 percent of his time
during those three days is spent on enforcement of the sign ordinances, the temporary
signs in particular. Sometimes he will simply relocate a sign. If he sees it's just slightly
out of place, he'll just relocate it and usually leave some kind of note on there saying, you
know, here's what you need to do in the future. But there are other times when it's such a
violation, in the median, whatever; he'll pick them up. Usually, if he can identify the
location that it's trying to direct someone to; go to that location and say, here's your sign,
here's the rules, you know, do it right next time. And then, some of those signs, by the
end of the work period, are just in the back of his truck, because he can't figure out where
they go, and they are stored here for a little bit to give somebody the chance to inquire
about them. In which case, we can give them the rules, and then they, you know, get
thrown away or they come pick them up.
In general, he doesn't see a lot of repeat offenders, particularly in terms of the realtors.
They seem to either -- they do it one time and they're gone, because they're not local
realtors, or they get it, and they understand. The bigger challenge has been with the
garage sales -type signs, because the citizens don't necessarily know to look at the code,
and you know, where to get those rules, so that's been a little bit more of a problem. And
to date, we haven't really issued any citations on these, because they really can usually be
dealt with by just bringing them to compliance. Go move them; get them in the right
location. But if we do get, you know, an ongoing problem with a given individual, then
we sort of would move onto that.
We have looked at and talked about some of the more consistent issues and areas where
we see, you know, here is a sign that's a temporary sign that's not following the code. But
if we see that one, and we see, you know, three or four others of the same type; that, if we
deal with this, then we have to deal with all of those. And so figuring a good approach to
that, either by sign type or location, is something we're still working to address more
consistently. And one of the challenges we have, just generally with code enforcement
is -- and this seems to have been escalating some over the last few years. If, when we do
find a violation, people are much more prone now to try to point out all the other
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violations. We're dealing, it seems like, with a lot more neighbor disputes. Someone
turns in a neighbor, then they start pointing fingers at each other, and we're back and
forth dealing with situations that way. Or when we issue an order to somebody, then they
will call the hotline, and they will load up, you know, 20, 30 complaints, you know, all
over town about whatever. And so that just starts eating up all of our staff time with
trying to respond to those.
And so in response to that, our code enforcement staff has had the procedure, the process;
if they get a violation, they're going to go investigate it, regardless of what it is. And so
that ends up eating up a lot of their time. And so we are proposing and planning to put
into effect a more public explanation of what our priorities are and our policies are; that a
life -safety issue is going to take a lot more priority than something that's a little bit more
frivolous. Following up on on -going issues is going to take a higher priority. And also
that policy that, you know, staff can and will initiate cases. Citizen complaints of within
300 feet of where you live are going to take a higher priority than something you
complain about across town, limiting the number that we will really process on a quick
basis per person per week versus anything you send in, we're going to process. That will
allow us, we hope, then, to prioritize some of those things, really focus in where we think
the issues are, and be able to take a better proactive approach in the future once that's
kind of out there. Here's our policy, and people understand that. So that's kind of a
related issue.
Questions?
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Mayor. Part of the Mayor's first campaign
was to request another code enforcement officer, which I completely agreed with, and I
voted for. It seems that, piggy -backing off the survey and on top of what you're talking
about; some of the survey, some of the dissatisfaction, or however you want to put it was
about code enforcement. So as I sat up here thinking today, we get reports from Captain
Kratzer; we get reports from Joanna, her court administrator; we get reports from
basically everybody gives us reports. I would like to have my fellow Councilmembers,
as well as the Mayor chime in. What I would like to see is, up until what the town
manager just told me today, my biggest gripe with code enforcement was not responding
to on -view complaints. They spend an enormous amount of time driving around the
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town. And when I found out that, you know, they only respond to complaints, and not; if
they drove past somebody's house, and they had grass seven -foot high, and intermingled
in the grass was a car that was there for three years, I have issue with that. So the
manager just pointed out today that they are doing on -view stuff, just like police officers
do on patrol every day.
So with the Council's blessing, as well as the Mayor's, I would like to see; if they're doing
this much work, I want them to get credit for doing this much work, but I honestly don't
know what they do. And I couldn't -- if a resident stopped me in a grocery store and said,
what does code enforcement do? How busy are they? I mean, we know MCSO issued
250 tickets last month. I would like to see the Senior Code Enforcement Officer have a
report that he can give us at the end of the month that would tell us; they did so many on -
view things; they responded to so many complaints; how many citations did they issue.
Because I honestly don't know where all this time and all of their work is going. So I
don't know what the other Councilmembers feelings are on that, but we hold everybody
else accountable for everything -- the chief gives us a fire report. So I just think that they
should be held responsible for letting the Council know exactly what they do on a
monthly basis, so (indiscernible).
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor, Council, Councilmember Spleich, I think that's
reasonable. So I'll work with the staff on trying to determine what that format of that
report will look like, and we'll start doing something and distributing it to the Council on
a regular basis. Thank you for that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. I know when, again, for us old-timers,
when he had the Marshall's Department back in the day; they dealt mostly with a lot of
code enforcement issues, as well. Steve Ginler (ph.) at the time, he was very good at
making these kinds of reports. So I think it's doable, and it'd be good to see. The only
other question I had is maybe a recommendation; if one of us sees something on the
weekend, or a sign, or something, say it's not a day code enforcement is on -duty. I mean,
we just take a picture, and you guys follow up on Monday. You know, you see stuff out
there, and it's like, you know it's in violation, but you don't --
MANAGER MILLER: If you see something, give it to me.
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COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: Because I started asking for the schedules, so I know whether
they're on Saturday or Sunday, because they do alternate that.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: So let me know. And I know periodically the Mayor gives me
things. I've heard from other Councilmembers, so let me know, and I'll pass it on. And
they're very responsive every time I've given it. And a lot of times, I'll tell you, about one
out of two times the employee was already dealing with it. So they are being, I believe,
more proactive. But I certainly think having a report and getting the Council more
informed about their activities is a great idea.
MANAGER MILLER: That's good to know, because I know you need more things to
do, so I will do that.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: And Grady, I hope you didn't expect that I expect you
to be responsible for this report. No way do I want to add --
MANAGER MILLER: No, I --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: -- anything to your plate.
MANAGER MILLER: Trust me, I didn't take it that way.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Okay. Yeah, no.
MANAGER MILLER: I will be working with the staff to try to identify a format, and
also ensure that we put it out on a monthly basis. I don't have an issue with that.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Right. And I think it's imperative that we know what
was on -viewed versus what was a complaint and everything. And I want to give you
credit, 100 percent, for any time a resident has complained to me about anything, and I
have forwarded their emails onto you, it is done within an hour. And one way or another
you get back and say, the following was done, or as he stated, somebody was already
doing it. So hats off to you.
And the court administrator was out of the room when I gave you a compliment. I
appreciate your monthly reports; I read them; I understand exactly -- kudos to the way
that you've turned around court administration. And I truly, truly want to -- I know what
the reports mean, and when I read them, I understand them. And I appreciate you doing
it, and compliments to the way that you've turned that around over there.
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COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I agree. I think the report would also have a nice by-
product: we can tell if there's an area that we need to educate our citizens on as well, so.
MANAGER MILLER: And you know, I think, because some of our cases actually going
to court, and some of them are high -profile, but you don't necessarily hear about them.
Like, we've had the one person that was selling homes out of his property for many,
many years; and finally, that came to a recent conclusion, and that's something that would
show up in a report, so.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Oh, the cars?
MANAGER MILLER: Yes, the cars. Sorry, I meant to say cars. I'm sorry.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. The next item is an update from Dave Trimble, our
Deputy Town Manager Administrative Services Director, and he's going to report back to
the Council regarding potential membership in the Arizona State Retirement System.
David?
DEPUTY TOWN MANAGER TRIMBLE: Okay. Thank you very much for the time
here. I've got a total of 12 slides, and the first one and the last one are just the covers, so I
got 10. Hopefully, I won't take too much of your time.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you. You've taken so much already.
DIRECTOR TRIMBLE: Well, you know, I won't blame anybody else. I won't point any
fingers. So this started back in the Council Retreat of 2020, in February, when we
brought this to the Council as a topic. And at that point, the direction from Council was
to go ahead and research it, and go ahead and get employee input, and so that's what we
did. And so -- click ahead here.
Just in general, to kick it off here, as far as a quick overview. The town is currently not a
member of the ASRS, which is the Arizona State Retirement System. Most of the
Arizona cities and towns are members of ASRS. Now, the town doesn't have anything
against our current 401 A defined contribution plan; however, the rules don't allow us to
offer both of the 401A that we currently have and the ASRS, so it's kind of an all -or -
nothing. And you know, we think the benefits of joining ASRS outweigh the negative
side of discontinuing the current 401 A. And the big reason that we think there's a big
advantage are really two -fold: number one, the town's at a big disadvantage in
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recruitment and retention of employees, and we think the ASRS offers employees that are
in it better benefits. And we did a survey of our employees, and the majority were in
favor of joining. The incremental cost to the town for next year would be modestly
higher; however, the cost has begun to decrease and could easily be a savings to the town
in the coming years. And we'll look at more of these things as we go along.
So let's see. A little bit of the background again, just to reiterate. The topic was
discussed at the retreat in 2020, and we've been delayed kind of in a holding pattern for a
while there. The pandemic hit us; there were some complicating factors that we'll get
into. Social Security is a big thing; it's a little bit different for us. The town is not in
Social Security for full-time employees, and we'll talk a little bit more about that. So it's
a complicated issue. We did take on some legal help for this, so it's a big issue; we
wanted to make sure we were doing it right. And so we, as you can see, conducted a
series of meetings with our employees; really kind of got it going in November, and had a
bunch of meetings between then and the end of February. And again, we did a poll, and
63 percent to 37 percent approximately were in favor of joining. So we plan to place the
item on the Council agenda in March if today goes okay.
So more background, getting into it a little bit here. Currently, full-time staff are
currently required to participate in our 401; and again, it is a defined contribution plan.
Full-time staff contribute 11 percent, and the town matches that. The town contributes 11
percent; we'll get more into that later. The town opted out of Social Security for full-time
employees early in the town's history, so that's important as we go along as well. It's a
little unusual; I thought that was weird when I started. Well, I thought everybody had to
be in Social Security, but as long as you offer a pension plan, and you're a public
employer, in certain cases you don't have to. So it's fairly common in California, and not
so much herein Arizona. Part-time employees are currently not in our 401A, and
therefore, the town does do Social Security for those employees. That rate is set at 6.2
percent, so that's important later on when we go into the cost. And the town currently
pays for long-term disability for full-time employees through Mutual of Omaha. We'll
get into later on -- that's included as part of ASRS. So when we do some of the math on
the costs that comes into play. And again, the bottom two points, like I mentioned; the
town is at a disadvantage in recruiting and retaining experienced staff, because the town
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is not in ASRS. And again, employees are currently at a disadvantage when comparing
the benefits of ASRS versus the 401 A.
Let's move on. A little bit about ASRS. The State has several different types of pension
plans that are not to be confused with this one; this one's the largest and best managed
one. Some of the other ones that the State has are not in such good shape. ASRS has
over 500,000 members Statewide. There are nearly 700 other employers within the State
that are in ASRS. 79 of the 91 cities and towns; you can see all the counties, all the state
employees, school districts, universities, and other governmental districts. And just
sticking on that point for just a minute. Some of the other towns that are not --again,
most of them are, the vast majority. Phoenix and Tucson have their own defined benefit
plan that does correlate with ASRS. But setting those two aside, the other ones that are
not in ASRS I thought it was important to kind of mention: Colorado City, Jerome,
Mammoth, Winkelman, Quartzsite, Huachuca City, Dewey -Humboldt, Bullhead City,
and Prescott Valley. So we're in that group. You know, and that kind of plays into -- as
we go along, I'll talk a little bit more about the perception of us being an outlier, and that
kind of plays into that, as well, so.
Again, more about the group here. It's professional; it's a really well managed group.
They've been an award winner for 32 years in a row, and then they won the Pension
Standards Award in 2021. And I skipped one line there. The Fountain Hills Sanitary
District joined last year, and I think they probably joined for many of the same reasons
that we did, or we're looking at. And again, if you kind of look at the well -funded part,
according to the joint legislative committee at the Arizona legislature; non -partisan group
that does reports, they have the ASRS funded at 80 percent. That's their latest report.
And if you look at that, and you convert it into the Pew Charitable Trust that does a lot of
research on all of the 50 states and their defined benefit plans, that would rank Arizona at
17th. So it's similar to, like, Minnesota, Oklahoma, Florida, Virginia. So I think it's a
well -run organization. And as you can see there in their latest report, there it says
sustainable and designed to withstand economic challenges; and are backed by the trust
fund that currently has 50 billion dollars in it, and that's available to pay current and
future retirement, health, and disability payments. And the way I figured that math is, if
no money kept coming in; if the spicket turned off tomorrow, which it won't, that's about
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16 years' worth of benefits that it could remain paying, so.
This slide shows us kind of a lot of the reason that we're interested in joining ASRS.
Fountain Hills is at a big disadvantage in recruitment and retention. The recruitment
process takes a lot longer than it should. Qualified applicants assume the town is part of
ASRS, and they're disappointed when they learn that we're not. Potential candidates just
don't apply, so it takes longer to find those applicants. Some candidates think the town is
located in one of the far outlying areas, that's kind of what I mentioned earlier. So they
think -- and that's been, you know, a roadblock for us for a while; it's kind of getting over
that perception that, oh, you guys are way out there, and I'm not applying for Fountain
Hills; its way out there. And so that doesn't help when we're kind of lumped in with
some of those other outlying areas that are not in ASRS. Some candidates apply, but
later voluntarily take themselves out of consideration when they realize and understand
the impact. So they get so excited. Fountain Hills has an opening; I'm perfect for it, and
they apply. And they go, I can try to make this work; I'll still try to make it work. And
so they, you know, try to negotiate a higher salary or, you know, just try to negotiate
different ways to try to make it work, but in the end a lot of them just don't. It just doesn't
work. We've gotten to the end and made job offers to multiple employees in that boat.
Others I know, for an example, early on would call me and say -- they thought I was
trying to pull something in my job ads, because well, why didn't you tell me? You know,
why didn't you tell me you're not in ASRS? And so I learned to put in our job ad, in big
bold letters, we're not in ASRS, to try to not have people disappointed. So that is a lot of
the main points there.
We do have an awesome staff, and we're determined to hire only the best, but
unfortunately, our pool of potential candidates starts off a lot smaller than it should;
because a good number of those, you know, highly qualified potential candidates come
from ASRS employers. So a lot of the other bigger cities and towns may have a number
one, two, three, four position. Like, accountant 1, accountant 2, accountant 3. Our senior
building inspector's a good one. A lot of places have an entry level one, a building
inspector 2, a building inspector 3. Fountain Hills has one, and we're looking for one that
can take the ball and run with it, so we don't have a ton of training. And so that's the type
of employee that we're looking for, is that more experienced candidate. And typically,
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those are out there with other municipalities, and they're in ASRS. And just, at the end,
you know, longer vacancies impact the productivity, so pretty obvious. I mean, work that
would otherwise be completed would be, you know, completed by the newly hired
employee, but it remains undone or less efficiently completed due to the existing staff
doing double -duty. And also, you know, interview panels. This is it; you're kind of
looking at the interview panels. Staff here does a lot of the interviews, so whenever we
have longer vacancies, it takes out of their daily duties, as well. Our assistant town
engineer, I know, has been open since last May. That's one example that we had filled,
and it came down to ASRS, and that was early on. I think it was July or August when we
had a candidate that, again, was trying to make it work; thought he could make it work;
couldn't make it work, so.
ASRS employee advantages. So the town's current 401A is a defined contribution plan
subject to the ups and downs of the stock market. ASRS defined benefit plan, it provides
that lifetime stable monthly income that retirees can count on, regardless of market
fluctuations. And I think this next bullet point: the lifetime monthly cash payments from
ASRS; if you do the math, they're a lot higher than the amount that can reasonably be
expected from the current 401 A plan. And even if they were the same, even if the
lifetime cash pension benefits were equal to those of the 401 A, employees would rather
have the stability and the guaranteed ASRS cash payments than taking their chances on
the market. And in addition to those things, as far as the higher lifetime cash payments,
the ASRS provides additional benefits that aren't part of our 401A currently. We talked
about it a little bit, but long-term disability is included in the plan. And the thing there
that's different from what the town currently pays for is, if you go on long-term disability
under the ASRS, you continue to gain those credits toward your retirement. And that's
not something that's currently anything that's available in our 401 A now. There's a
survivor benefit, and then retiree health benefits are also part of the ASRS. If you retire
from ASRS at all, you have the ability to purchase group medical and dental plans after
you retire. And then, if you are in it for five years, you actually qualify to get a monthly
health insurance subsidy that will help as you go along into retirement.
And as alluded to earlier, as we talk about the cost to the town; just want to make sure
that we understand, the town currently doesn't participate in Social Security for those
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people that are in a retirement plan, so that would stay the same with ASRS. So that's a
6.2 percent amount that the town doesn't have to pay for those employees that every other
city and town does have to pay. So Social Security, as I mentioned earlier, is set at 6.2
percent. We're not in it, so that saves the town 6.2 percent right off the top. The first
three bullets and the last two are different there, so let me just go over those. So as
mentioned, the town currently contributes 11 percent, so that's the cost to both the
employee, and importantly here, to the town. Whereas, with ASRS, the board sets the
contribution rate towards the end of the calendar year, and that's set for the next fiscal
year. So we know what'll be in July, that's our target date to potentially implement if
everything goes well here. And that rate's set currently at 12.1 percent, so it is a little bit
higher than we're currently paying, but that does represent a decrease for the first time in
a bunch of years. So we think that -- I think it's breaking a trend. We'll talk about that a
little bit. And then, the second to last bullet kind of summarizes those other ones that
detail a little bit more. So in summary, that's how I got to the amount. So for next year,
the estimated combined amount incremental cost to the town is projected to be about
66,000. Now, the town currently pays about 6 million in total salary benefits and
employee -related expenses, so that's about 1.1 percent increase; it's 66,000.
And my bottom point there: there's a good case that can be made that joining ASRS will
result in savings for the town in the coming years. So let me jump into that one.
Historically, the contribution rate that was on the previous slide that the board sets once a
year, that has averaged about seven percent over the past 35 years. So it's currently,
again, set at 12.1. The town currently is paying 11 for our 401, so it's a little bit of an
increase there. But again, it's averaged about seven percent for 35 years. So in 25 of the
last 35 years the rate's been lower than the town currently contributes. So I think the
odds are in our favor. Contribution rates tend to trend over the past 35 years, I noticed.
13 years it decreased for every year except one -- 14 years it increased. This year it
decreased, so it reversed a 14-year trend; it could represent the start of a downward trend,
possibly regression towards the 35-year average. No guarantees either way, but again,
based on the historical contribution rates, it's not unreasonable to project a savings for the
town. For example, if the contribution rate just goes to 10 percent, the town would save
about 33,000 a year, or double what we're projecting for the incremental increase for next
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year.
And if it goes to 8 percent, the town would save about 123,000 every year. So assuming
we have Council consensus today, we would present, again, at the meeting in March.
And with a resolution to authorize the town manager to execute the documents for the
town of Fountain Hills to join ASRS, and we'd try to implement in July. We would
continue to have workshops in May and June ahead of the implementation in July, and
continue to engage employees with information regarding ASRS after implementation.
And my final slide here. Just, again, a summary. Again, we think we're at a
disadvantage in recruitment and retention. We think the benefits are better for the
employees, majority are in favor of joining. And the incremental cost would be higher
next year, but I think the cost could be less overtime for the town. So that's it. I'll take
any questions that anybody has.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilwoman?
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I've had the opportunity to talk to a few
government employees outside the town of Fountain Hills, and outside of the State, as
well. And it is an issue for a governmental employee that wants to go from one entity to
another entity to find out that they're going to lose, or not be able to continue to
contribute to something that they've already got rolling. I don't think they actually lose it
if I understand it correctly. They keep it; it just kind of sits there; they just don't get to
contribute more. And it really is -- you do feel like you're losing something, even though
physically they're not losing it. You do kind of want to -- I could see me turning away
from a job knowing that I'm not going to be able to continue to contribute to this that I've
been populating for however many years. So I do know it's an issue; it's an issue at a
state level, as well.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I have some questions for you. I've been a financial
professional most of my life, so when this came up, I did a little bit of digging and a little
bit of research. Presently, ASRS is underfunded by about 16 billion dollars as of a couple
years ago. And I don't -- maybe this last year was the first time in recent memory that the
actual contribution rate went down, but according to their agreement, it says that
employees are required to pay 50 percent of any costs associated with paying down
pension debt. That 16 billion dollars is a lot of money. Contributions back in 2001-or'2
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were two percent. Now, they're at 11 something, as you quoted, with this one year where
they actually went down. The only way to correct that deficit is to raise the contributions
on all participants, that would be including the town. So I did some numbers, and your
numbers and mine are a little bit different, but for the most part they're close. That
$66,000, so what would we do to make the employees paychecks stay the same? Would
we have to compensate them so that their checks stayed whole? If that was the case,
that's, you know, 140,000 a year right there. In seven years that's over a million dollars in
cost to the town.
So I think -- you know, and then the obstacle about -- I have a hard time with the obstacle
about recruitment, because you've got 19 or 20 people on the payroll right now that were
associated with this plan, and they're still here. If they chose another path to shore up
years or whatever, they could've chosen that path, and they didn't do that. So there must
be something attractive here, to working in Fountain Hills. It's a great place to work; we
take good care of our employees; we have a retirement plan that the town contributes
right now 11 percent to. Never in my life did I have anybody contribute 11 percent to my
retirement. Now, I was in the private sector, so I get that. But these are concerns that I
have. As far as people getting additional benefits from retirement sources; there's
financial professionals in this town that they can work it, after-tax Roth IRAs. And I
really have a hard time, because it was brought up earlier by Mr. Magazine, with the
inflation rates the way they are, and I don't see that going away soon. This deficit for this
plan is going to get greater, I think, in the years to come. We don't even know the effects
of what COVID has done to this plan, really. Not yet. We won't know for another year
or two. So there's a lot of questions, I think, that we need to do a little more research on,
personally, myself. Because TPT could be going down; we've got maintenance issues in
this town; and to plunk another million dollars without really knowing how this deficit's
going to be handled going forward I think is a big question mark, at least for me anyway.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Dave, how many employees that have left the one in the last five years given their reason
in their exit interview that they left the town because we were not in ASRS?
DIRECTOR TRIMBLE: I think there have been a few. I think one works for a small
municipality south of us. I think one works at a different county now. But there have
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been a few; I don't think they name that as the only reason, but I think it's a contributing
factor.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: But their number -- was any of them their number one
reason because we're not in ASRS, or did they get a better job offer?
DIRECTOR TRIMBLE: I think it was a combination, probably.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: A combination? Okay. Well, I am now going into my
sixth year of Arizona State employment, and if I had a choice to be in ASRS, I would run
from it. So I'm not happy with it in the least. I've been there six years, and in six years
it's gone up four times. The chance of it going down are slim and none, and slim just left
town. It will continue to increase; it will not go down. And they always have reasons
why it needs to go up, and we don't, as an employee of the state, have any choice but to
pay into it. So I got a little heartburn over the fact that I remember the 2020 Council
Retreat, in which the senior members were here. And I distinctly remember saying that,
you know, get some figures and everything, but I swear to you, and I really got a
memory. I swear to you, I don't remember us, in that retreat, giving the town permission
to survey the employees and get their opinion on it. And here's what the heartburn's over:
we kind of look like big a -holes, and I do a really good job of that without needing the
town's help. So if I'm against this, and 67 percent of the employees are for it, it kind of
makes me seem to be not pro -employee. And I am really pro -employee, and my votes
prove that by the three raises, I think, that we gave you; the last one was three and a half
percent. I think the only pay raise that I didn't vote for was the town managers. So now,
the employees want to be made whole, which I don't blame them. So that's an additional
1.2 percent that, as Councilman Friedel pointed out, that we have to pay up, because
nobody wants to have their paycheck decrease to get this benefit.
So I mean, just with the way that the survey was put out; and then it's put to us; and if we
vote against this, we're kind of like, seem like we're against the town employees, which
I'm not. But I just -- you know, you said, well, maybe one or two in five years -- that's
not a high number. And I guess, having personal experience with it; I don't want to
speak, I believe the Mayor was involved with ASRS. To me, it's not some great pie in
the sky thing as I think it's trying to be sold as. So I was opposed to it in 2020. I'm
opposed to it now. I think you guys are in a much better position where you're at now.
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And I mean, I hate to sound like a jerk, but I mean; if there's town employees that are a
few years away from getting their -- or months or whatever away, they're welcome to
seek employment somewhere else to get that ASRS credit, if that's what they want. But I
can't believe that anybody, with as good as we treat our town employees, and what the
raises that we've given you guys -- well -deserved raises, because you all work your butts
off. But if you're going to leave this job, in which I believe this town, and the Mayor, and
the Council has taken care of you guys, because of ASRS, there's got to be another reason
that you're not happy with the job other than ASRS.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Well, first let me say that I'd be very surprised if anybody
who's leaving has top of mind the fact that they don't have ASRS; they go for lots of
other reasons. Whether it's location, housing costs; I mean, you could go down a long
list. First, I want to thank the staff who are here. It's been a long day, and I think the
presentations that have been made, the information we've been given is proof positive
that we have an absolute stellar staff. I think we could put our staff up against any other
municipality, in terms of expertise, and dedication, and so on.
I favor ASRS. What's most compelling for me is the fact that, in order to keep this stellar
staff, or attract new stellar staff when people leave, we've got to be competitive, and
we're not competitive. When you listed -- David, when you listed the other towns that
don't have it, my recollection is it was about five towns that were teeny, little towns, very
small in population. I think it's critical for the citizens of this town that we have the best
staff we can possibly have. And so for that reason -- and I think we have to be fair to the
employees and let them know how much we appreciate them. So I favor it.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, as -- oh, do you have -- go ahead.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: So Dave, in your presentation, did we say we were
going to make the paychecks whole, or was that just something thrown out as a
possibility? I don't remember hearing that.
MANAGER MILLER: Dave, I think he did reference that; that probably, you know, the
next cost of the living adjustment that would be proposed would probably encompass
that. So that was either implied or it was actually in the presentation.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Because I know last year with the Sanitary
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District, my business partner and I actually did some workshops over there with the
employees, because they were switching to this plan, and they were going to be taking
salary cuts. And so one of the workshops -- you know, the workshops kind of
emphasized, you know, trying to save here and there, just trying to get them used to
having lesser paychecks. So that's how they did it over there, just kind of throwing that
out there.
And then, Dave, you mentioned with the 401 A; I'm not totally familiar with your plan,
but I know it's market driven. But I assume the employees have -- do they have
opportunities to change their investments, in terms of aggressive, moderate, you know?
So I mean, it is tied to the market, but if you're a more conservative person, you can
choose more conservative investments, right?
MANAGER MILLER: It's self -directed, the investments are.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah.
MANAGER MILLER: And they can put on auto -pilot --
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Um -hum.
MANAGER MILLER: -- and it will go into a target fund --
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Target, yeah.
MANAGER MILLER: -- based on their age.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Um -hum. Okay. All right.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: And I think those target funds are kind of nice; they do
rebalance, I believe, either quarterly or yearly. But the ASRS plan, their rate of return
has been 3.7 percent over the last 30 years, so it's not aggressive. By agreement, I
believe, they have to be kind of conversative with that, I think.
MANAGER MILLER: Just to let you know, they have the -- eight percent is what they
program into their rate of return. We just found out that they exceeded it. Do you
remember what the percentage was for the calendar year last year? But everybody had a
good year, the market did, as well. But for the first time in several years since they did a
reform to the ASRS back in, I think -- was that in 'I P They basically had their very first
cost of living adjustment. What makes the fund worthy, ASRS pension plan much more
sustainable is; unlike other pension plans around the country, it doesn't have an automatic
cost of living adjustment, which erodes away the -- well, the fund balance, and then
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causes the underfunded or unfunded balance to grow. So anyways.
MAYOR DICKEY: Absolutely. And as David mentioned, yeah, I'm retired from the
State, and my husband is. And so there were definitely benefits there, where our monthly
health insurance -- not only did we get the benefit that you were talking about, the
premium benefit, but you get a spousal premium benefit. For us, it was, like, 250 a
month, and one of us had free dental, so there's definitely once you retire. I think, more
to the point of why does somebody leave, it's more why don't they come, you know. If I
was working for the State for ten years, if I decided to go to a city, I would not go
somewhere where I wouldn't have been able to continue the ASRS. You know, it's
reliable; you know, it's conversative; and I feel like it's a good thing for our employees.
My question is, the ones who didn't want it, did they say why? And is there a way to
mitigate their concerns?
DIRECTOR TRIMBLE: I didn't get a whole lot of feedback from those employees, but
one mentioned passing it onto someone other than their spouse, so relatively unusual in
that regard. And I know we would like to have both, like I said. It would be great to
have employees at least have the choice, at least a one-time type of deal for the ones that
are already working here that they started under the 401 plan. But we're working with
ASRS; I don't think we're going to be able -- that's not part of their process, so it's kind of
(indiscernible).
MANAGER MILLER: We looked into it. We really hoped, you know, that those that
were here at the time; if that was the Council's decision to go forward with ASRS, that
those that wanted to stay in the current plan, they could. But under the rules and
regulations under the State law it's an all -or -nothing. So that's the way it is,
unfortunately, and we did research that and vet that. There are some areas where, if
you're over a certain age, you can opt out. If you're part-time and there's other areas, you
can opt out. So anyways, for the full-time employees it's either an all -in or not -in kind of
thing.
MAYOR DICKEY: And can you -- oh, I just have one more question. Can you buy
years? Like, with us switching. Would somebody who maybe came from Mesa, you
know, worked here for a little while; can they buy back their years?
DIRECTOR TRIMBLE: Yes, that is a feature of the plan. You can buy your years.
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COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: They can, but it's very expensive.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, but if you live long enough --
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Yeah.
MAYOR DICKEY: -- it's worth it. Yes, sir. We've done it.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: I think the amount of money that the town will incur,
as far as everyone wanting to be made whole -- I know I didn't make that up; I know I
read this and heard that this is what the employees want. So this will be another one and
a half percent pay increase across the board for every town employee. So there seems to
be a rush to get this on March's agenda. I think that the actual cost of what this is going
to be, total, for all the employees to go into this; how much it's going to cost the residents
and everything; these are all things that should be addressed before this Council. And I
don't want to speak for the Mayor or anybody else. But me, personally, I mean, you
know my feelings. There isn't anything you can tell me that would change my mind. I
think you're all making a huge mistake. Huge mistake. But I believe that whatever funds
that are going to have to be paid forward to make employees whole, that dollar amount
should be presented to us before there's a decision made.
MAYOR DICKEY: Okay. Oh, sorry. Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Well, just briefly. We've talked in this meeting -- we
started at 8:30 -- about a possibility of approving many, many million dollars' worth of
expenditures. And for me, if it means spending a little bit less on something for the
employees, and for their loyalty, and for our ability to hire the best people available, I
think it's worthwhile.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: I have a question. It's a complicated system. There
are numerous employees that will be affected positively and maybe negatively. Before I
could really feel like I make an educated decision on it, I would like to see one or two
examples of what the employees make. What their weekly -- if they stay at the 11
percent; if they go to ASRS, how much is there salary going to change? How much
would it be to make them whole? How much is the benefit, like, for Social Security, et
cetera, to be part of that system. I would really like to see more that are particularly
working so that if I was trying to make that decision as an employee, I would really be
able to understand it before saying yes to something, that once I say yes to, another
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person is controlling my retirement. And I'd like to know a little bit more about the
benefits, like what Ginny said and thing like that because you -- and I appreciate your
slide presentation, but I need to know a little bit more about it as a person who, you
know, was an employee. I did happen to work for the government for a while with that,
but still, it's just -- I would like that information before bringing it before Council if you
don't mind.
MANAGER MILLER: Mayor, I think we've gotten some really good direction. That's
what we were here for in the first place, so we will go back and try to do further research
and additional information the Council's asked for. And we'll try to bring this back to
you at a later date. Thank you.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Mayor, could we also include why the other
percentage? How much was it; 37 per -- could we --
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. That makes sense.
SPELICH: Could we include the 37 percent that were against us? Could we include
their reasoning on why they were against it? I mean, not why -- not, of course, you
know, Fountain Joe says he hates it or Dave Trimble -- you know. Now, don't get -- but
what would be the reason that they were against?
MANAGER MILLER: We had good feedback from resident -- or from the employees
for and against, and we had additional comments. Dave actually solicited that. So we'd
be happy to provide that to you, you know, either when we provide all this additional
research or if it's part of the decision package for you. So we'll do that either way.
I know we're getting close to our end time. We have a couple of more items. Is there a
desire for a real quick break, or do you want to just kind of plow through? We're just
about done here.
MAYOR DICKEY: Power through.
MANAGER MILLER: Okay. So --
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: There's a democracy.
MANAGER MILLER: So the next item is a community branding process that has been
proposed by the vice mayor. We have had in our economic development plan and also in
our strategic plan, we've had health and wellness as areas that we could target, particular
industries, or try to promote our town for tourism. And the vice mayor had an idea that
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perhaps we should go through a community branding process to make it official and
actually try to come up with a whole marketing strategy towards this -- not just have it be
targeted areas, but actually develop a strategy.
If the Council's interested in pursuing this further, we would probably go through an RFP
process, but I know the vice mayor, he was wanting to talk to you about this.
And the reason why this is before you is, in talking to the Mayor, the Mayor and I had a
discussion about this, and she had a different thought. She thought we can kind of do this
without having to actually have a full community branding process. So I felt like I was
being kind of pulled in two different directions, and so I thought it'd be important to get
the whole Council to weigh in on this.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: My direction is the important one.
MANAGER MILLER: So with that, I'll refer to the one who thinks it's the direction to
go, so Vice Mayor.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Yes. Grady and I have been talking about this for two or
three years now, on and off, and originally he said we need to work this through a
committee process, which has been happening for some time.
I think we're missing a real opportunity in this town. I'm proposing the concept of a
health and wellness as a potential brand for Fountain Hills, that we become known as the
health and wellness center of the Valley. Everyone will pretty much understand what
that means. No city or town has the assets we have to offer or the access to all of these
assets. I mean, we're a small town, 24,000 people, geographically small; and yet, I think
we have more assets than any other town there is. We can sell this concept, I think, to
our advantage.
Our strategic plan has recognized health and wellness branding as a high priority and to
encourage access to health and wellness opportunities. Since early 2000s, cities and
towns throughout the country have recognized the value of developing a brand image, if
you will. What does it mean to have a brand? "A city or town brand is" -- and I'm
quoting -- "is fundamentally its sense of identity, shaping how it communicates and
markets itself to the world, and what it does, how it sets policies and makes civic
investments."
I'm quoting again, "Branding is not pretending to be something you're not. It's about
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revealing, packaging, and promoting awareness about what you intrinsically are."
And let me say that, while the fountain and the potential Dark Sky Discovery Center will
always be centerpieces of our town and will always attract visitors and that we should
always advertise them and get as many visitors as possible to enjoy them and our own
citizens to enjoy them, they're structures. They're not brands.
I Love New York; America's Breadbasket, relating to food production in the Midwest;
"pop, pop (sic), fizz, fizz" are types of brands. Some are product brands. If we're to
proceed, we need to identify our unique value proposition, and we are unique. Once
we've done that, benefits can include -- and this is not original with me -- benefits can
include increased recognition, increased tourism, our attractiveness to business,
attractiveness to investors, growth of our economy, and job market growth. These have
all proven to be the result of branding, of city and town branding. I forget the exact
number. I think New York City is seeing $76 million in investment just on that one
brand of "I Love New York".
It can't be established in a vacuum. After receiving consultant recommendations, as
Grady mentioned, a process could be created to involve influential town leaders, business
leaders, residents, and so on.
Finally, here's a partial list of what our town has to offer to buttress the recognition that
Fountain Hills is indeed the health and wellness center of the Valley. It's a long list:
trails; two medical centers, tennis, golf, and pickleball; seminars at the Community
Center; parks and recreation, including such facilities as the splash pad; community
garden; physical therapy; Golden Eagle Park sports events; the Sonoran Conservancy;
McDowell Mountain Park; Community Center special activities for children and seniors;
the Botanical Garden; library classes for children and adults. And earlier today, I think
Rachael mentioned the possibility of a potential project of exercise equipment for the
elderly.
So we have a lot to offer. I don't -- again, I don't think there's another city or town in
America with our kind of demography that can compete with us in terms of what we have
to offer. If we could brand ourselves this way, I think it would be a boon to our
economy. I think people would come literally from all over the country to either take
part in what we have or even live here.
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So I wanted to present that to you, very briefly, since it's late. And I'd be happy to try to
answer any questions.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Allen, you forgot day spas.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Sorry. Dave said, don't forget bingo. He thinks I'm so
old that I'm ready for bingo. He's said this before.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, I wouldn't disagree with anything that you said about the
town. You know, my -- I had a -- obviously, I think our brand, if there's a brand, is the
fountain. It's just -- I don't -- the word brand, I know, I mean, I talked to James
(phonetic) about this ages ago, and it does sound a little manufactured to me, but, you
know, if that's the way it is, that's the way it is.
My thing was whether we could just -- we're already kind of doing it internally. What's
the status of our new economic director -- economic development director who's coming?
I love the idea of the active lifestyle. And the hospital, I want to make sure it's also, you
know, active, not just, you know, rehabilitative or whatever. I like the idea of the parks
and the Dark Skies (sicl and all of those things that you said. The spring training that we
do the ads for, our partnership.
So I guess it has more to do with whether it needs to be a branding, you know,
consultants and all that, or do we agree that this is, you know, the kind of place we are.
Why -- you know, when you ask, why did you move here? I think everybody kind of
says the same thing, the views, the peace, the beauty. So if you talk to people -- you
know, I talk to a lot of people outside of here that don't live here. And they're always just
like, oh, you're so lucky. It's so gorgeous there. Oh, it's so beautiful. You're -- so we
have a brand.
Now, what -- if we need to do something more, you know, substantial with it or
something, I'm definitely, you know, willing to do that, and I'm willing to do a brand full-
scale if that's what everybody wants to do. But I just wanted your opinions.
And Grady, again, what is the status of our economic development program?
MANAGER MILLER: So the director starts next week. And I had already identified if
this was something the Council wanted to pursue. This would be, obviously, this person's
job to oversee this project.
When I say "pursue", there's two avenues we can pursue this. One is -- we've been kind
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of doing this not very well internally, or we can super -size it a little bit and get some
additional outside expertise to help us with this. We just have, really, one person. You
know, we got two, maybe, that in addition to their regular work in economic development
and tourism, that we'd be able to have work on this. But branding is not their
background. They're not market experts or anything like that -- marketing experts.
So I think if you're okay with this, we can take this and basically develop a scope of
services or scope of work. Council will have the ultimate say. We come back with a
proposal for you to consider awarding a contract. If you don't want to go forward that
direction, you can tell us no. If you want to tell us no today, that would be great so we
don't have to go through that effort. But either way, I feel that I'm seeing there's
consensus to go with this, but not necessarily seek out the professional expertise on it.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I love the idea of going active however we want
to make it happen. One of the things I want to bring up is I'm kind of glad to see that
we've gone away from the "get out of the valley and into the hills". While that sounds
relaxing and great, I feel like it's "pack a lunch, bring your passport, let's all go to
Fountain Hills". So I just feel like it shows how far away we are, where we're not.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Right.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: If we talk about being active, we're literally just
on the other side of that hill right there, people. So I feel like I'm glad we're going away
from the one, and I would love to see us talk a little bit more about getting active because
there are literally a billion ways to do that here.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Two questions. How does Adero play into this? And
then, what about -- I mean, maybe once we get them to change their address. And then,
what about the Chamber? Do they play a role in this at all to help us brand or?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Absolutely, that's what I said. Once we have some kind
of a plan --
MANAGER MILLER: They're definitely stakeholders to your point. Most of the time,
these are identities that are community identities, and therefore they're usually initiated
by a city or a town, so. But you definitely have stakeholders that are involved, and the
Chamber's a huge one that you want involved, and you want the business owners. And
certainly, the Adero resort is definitely going to be a major stakeholder because of all the
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amenities that they have to offer in our community, and it fits right in with health and
wellness.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I was just going to say basically the same thing, that we
have to reach out. We can't just do it in isolation. So we'd have to get some citizens
involved. We'd have to get businesses involved, probably through the Chamber. There
has to be buy -in. If there's no buy -in, there's no sense in even doing it.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yes. Yeah. I'm not sure how I feel on this
because I'm not necessarily opposed to it. But I think with, Grady, your point, maybe,
you know, flesh it out a little bit more in terms of what it would look like long term
financially, what partners are willing to participate or have skin in the game. You know,
even the new director, it'd be nice to have them get settled in and figure things out and get
some input from them in terms of their recommendations as well. And so I'm not
opposed to it, but, you know, I don't think we're ready to implement it tomorrow yet,
either, so.
MANAGER MILLER: Great. Well, this has all been good. I believe what we'll do is
we'll go ahead and I'll work with the new director, and maybe we'll just come back at the
end of one of our Council meetings, like we've done for workshop, and further flesh this
out with you. So thank you.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thanks. The other thing about the -- you know, I think the City of
Mesa just did it, like, a couple of days ago, so you might want to take a look at that. But
when I do look around, except for "Glendale's Got Game", I don't think I could think any
kind of a slogan or anything for any of the towns around us. So I think, you know, it's
something to consider. Yeah. I'm happy to consider it. Thanks.
MANAGER MILLER: Thank you. The next item is discussion regarding a possible
short-term lease of Four Peaks Elementary School.
As I'm waiting to get the remote. Thank you.
So as you saw in the staff report, we're not really quite ready for primetime on this, but I
did want to give you a heads up because it will likely come back to you at a later date.
As you're aware, BIZ HUB was established in 2018 as part of an initiative between the
Town and EVIT and the school district and the Arizona Business Advisors. BIZ HUB is
basically a business accelerator. It's designed to help businesses grow, as well as new
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business startups.
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EVIT had planned on expanding its technical vocalizational curriculum at Four Peaks
Elementary School. They were having the students that were in there, some of the
occupants of their, like, FTS, the clockmaker or watchmaker -- they were utilizing the
students there to kind of teach them watchmaking, and it's a really powerful, useful
approach. EVIT acted as the primary anchor and sublet spaces to other businesses.
Unfortunately, when EVIT pulled out in January of last year, BIZ HUB was never really
able to be actualized or realize its potential. And after EVIT pulled out, the school
district took over the operation of that space and started trying to fill up vacant spaces so
they could try to make it finically work for them.
In my opinion, BIZ HUB, it was a primary priority for economic development, and it just
has never really been able to work, but I believe it's because of the situation it found itself
after EVIT pulled out.
In discussions with the school district, the school district will welcome leasing the facility
to the Town. What I'd like to see, potentially, is to do a three-year, either no or low-cost,
type of lease, where we go ahead and maybe take responsibility for the utilities and the
maintenance, while we have the tenants in there. We collect the rent, and we also
actively manage the facility.
We also have a huge facility that we believe, in talking with Rachael and her staff, that
there's good opportunities that they could use that space also for recreational needs as
well.
Arizona Business Advisors would also assist the town in leasing acceleration activities,
so they would help us manage that as well. So they'd take on a larger role than what they
currently have right now.
We don't have -- these are some slides that show you kind of the site. So this is Four
Peaks Elementary School in the bottom right-hand corner, the big, massive space. And
that's Four Peaks Elementary School. And this is kind of the roof area. It's a huge space.
I believe it's close to 40,000 square feet. So it's a very large facility.
And this is the floor plan on the interior. So there's quite a bit of space that's not used,
and there's some spaces where we would try to reallocate and move tenants to. Here's a
little bit clearer picture.
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To conclude, we're in the process of currently evaluating the annual operating and
maintenance costs. So at this point, we were trying to get that information. We didn't get
it in time for today's meeting. And that could even make a difference. If it's just
outrageously expensive, like the A/C and the maintenance of what we would have to put
out, if it doesn't pencil out, trust me, I have no interest in pursuing this. We'll find some
other alternatives. But if we find that we're very close and there might be a small subsidy
the town has in running this facility, we think that this is really huge because we have a
lot of vacant space here in town. And I think BIZ HUB is a great opportunity to try to
grow those businesses so they can move into some of the space that we have.
So basically, I wanted to just kind of give you this as a potential item that you're going to
be seeing probably in another month or so once we get this more fleshed out. I'd be
happy to answer any questions that you may have regarding this proposed lease.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I love the concept of the BIZ HUB, and I have
since the inception. And I actually -- once the BIZ HUB gets back up and running, I am
actually on the board. One thing, I don't know anything about the building itself, but
rumor has the plumbing is not good.
MANAGER MILLER: Right. So we have heard about the sewer on the far west wing.
It's interesting because they weren't allowing any of the occupants to go into the west
wing, so to speak, but our understanding is that when they had that extension that went
into the west wing and they added it, they still had all these students. So we're not really
quite sure that the sewer issues are as bad as they say. And so that's one of the things that
Justin (phonetic) and his staff are helping us evaluate that. They're looking at the roof.
They're looking at all these other issues potentially before we make a decision. So we
may be coming back with you -- to you with basically, you know what? We've looked at
this. We're not sure this is really the way to go. Although right now, on paper, it's
looking fine until we get those numbers.
So thank you for bringing that up, because we are evaluating the plumbing issues that
you've raised.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. I mean, I'm all in favor looking at it further.
And again, I think you're on top of it in terms of if the costs are just too great, you know,
it's not really going to be worth our bother or our budget.
x,.
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MANAGER MILLER: Right.
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COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: You know, and I know when we were renovating
the Community Center, some of our activities were transferred down there, mostly for
seniors. And I know there was issues, you know, air conditioning or this and that. And
we know that's an older building, and it's going to need some fixing up. But BIZ HUB
aside, if you don't -- you know, if that doesn't fill the whole building, I mean, maybe it
could be kind of another location for some parks and rec programing too. It'd kind of
relieve some of the pressure at the Community Center, because I know when we were
looking at different users at the Community Center and fee waivers and stuff, like the
FHCCA and all their groups, I mean, I just think there's potential to use that space for
some of these other things and to relieve some of the pressure we're feeling at our
Community Center.
MANAGER MILLER: And I didn't get into the details. But one of the areas we're
thinking is a really good opportunity is maybe teen activities and teen programing,
because right next door is the Boys & Girls Club, but most of their focus is really more
for the younger kids. But the Mayor just recently met with the new executive director of
the Scottsdale Boys & Girls Club, which has purview of our local one, and there was
interest in doing collaboration. So we're going to get a meeting with that director and the
staff to see what might be some potential ways that we can collaborate, and one of the
areas we might collaborate is maybe doing something with teens and programming.
SCHARNOW: Yeah. I mean, that's a good point. And you know, with the
improvements we're doing all around Four Peaks there and some of the amenities, that's
just a natural fit, if you ask me, so. And maybe we can put in a bigger zipline for, like,
teenagers and -- you know.
MAYOR DICKEY: big check.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I think you should investigate it, and also, the BIZ
HUB might be a good entry spot for some of our home -based businesses that have
outgrown their home, and maybe then they step there and then into a vacancy downtown.
MANAGER MILLER: So it's a really good point, and one of the things that was never
realized -- we were trying to come up with -- when it first opened, the idea was basically
a shared area where people can maybe meet with clients and also set up a laptop and use
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the Wi-Fi there. And we were thinking at the time, and that was Arizona Business
Advisors, EVID, and the Town, and we were looking at possibly having some sort of a
membership or subscription base that would help recover some of those costs. So good
point.
Okay. Great direction. And you'll hear more about this as we obtain additional details
and facts on this.
The next presentation is by Community Services Director Rachael Goodwin, who's going
to brief you on the Sunridge neighborhood park survey results and possible direction that
she may have or consensus. So with that, I'll turn it over to Ms. Goodwin.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I almost forgot that part. I'll start with the good news that this
is the last item, so. But it is an item that is of high importance. There's a lot of
community conversation going on around this, and I know I've talked with a number of
different commissioners and a number of council people that are wanting to understand
the big picture, so we thought this was a good time to at least share some information as
well as the survey results. So without further ado, we'll jump in.
As you know, we put out a survey earlier this year, back at the beginning of January. It
was very short and sweet. With Bo's help, we developed seven questions. It took less
than three minutes to answer, and these were the questions. What would you like to see
in the park -- what amenities would you like to see? Would the survey takers prefer no
lighting and sunset closure or low level to increase the park usability?
As you've heard earlier today, there's a lot of asks for lights in our playgrounds, so that
was part of this conversation here, as to how late this facility would potentially be
available.
Would you use the park as a resident? What type of parking lot surface would be
preferred? And how many parking spaces would be needed -- do you feel would be
sufficient in addition to the ADA? Should the park be gated when closed? And then,
providing a residential address, again, once again just to confirm that it is residents that
are taking the survey and it's not being taken by any folks outside of the community.
One of the big questions I keep getting is, why didn't we ask certain questions on the
survey? Why didn't we ask if folks wanted the park? Well, the survey was designed to
understand the amenities and the layout and the accessibility. That's kind of our integral
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starting to design the park renderings, to develop our cost estimates, and to develop a
phasing process.
It didn't ask if a park was desired because the park technically, as of right now, is already
voter -approved and a Council -identified project. It's recognized in a number of
documents. So at this point, it is a Council decision whether we move forward with a
park.
We didn't outline a lot of active park options in our survey. It is through our
recommendation that the site be very natural, use the contours that are existing.
However, we did put a number of suggestions out there, but there was an open-ended
spot to comment if you wanted something else. If you really felt like pickleball belonged
there, there was a place to do that. If you really felt there was a, you know, need there in
that spot, there was a place to note that.
How and to whom the survey was distributed. The survey was targeted to our Sunridge
Canyon residents, as they're the most impacted by this project. We worked with the
HOA. They were not able to provide us with the email addresses for our use, so we
provided the HOA a sample email correspondence with background information, the
project contents, survey links, et cetera.
Originally, we had hoped to send it out from a town email address so that folks could hit
reply and information could come back to us directly if they had questions; if they
wanted to comment directly back to us, we could do that. We tried to eliminate the
middleman. Unfortunately, that wasn't feasible, so the HOA offered to put the survey out
on our behalf. I believe that they also put it on their website. The community has 775
residents, but the HOA wasn't able to confirm how many emails went out. They don't
have a full email listing.
MANAGER MILLER: Rachael, if I may, I just for clarification, it's 778 households --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Okay.
MANAGER MILLER: -- correct?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That could be right.
MANAGER MILLER: Yeah.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Thank you. So the households. So we don't have an accurate
number of how many households received the email. I do know that the residents were
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encouraged to share with neighbors and communicate that the survey was active. We
received 208 responses. However, many of the questions within the responses were
skipped, which is not surprising. If folks did not feel like a park was warranted, they
answered the first question generally and then moved on.
Of the 208, based on 775 -- I could redo the math, but that's roughly 27 percent
participation of Sunridge residents. Yeah. It would be just a smidge. Yes.
So the survey results -- this is just sort of a snapshot of that first question. That first
question said, what amenities would you like to see? And there was, again, a couple of
proposed amenities or suggested, ramada shade structures, walking trails, low -impact
outdoor fitness and balance equipment, activity area for horseshoes or bocce ball,
restroom facilities, picnic tables, overlook benches, a water fountain or water bottle -
filling station or a pet water fountain.
And then, of course, the other, which is the open-ended, where anyone could comment on
anything they felt was appropriate or not appropriate for the space. Not surprising; we
got a lot of comments there. We'll take a look at those in just a sec.
The rest of the findings are sort of summarized here, that 85 percent of the survey takers
that answered the questions prefer the park to close at sunset and have no ground -level
lighting.
Additionally, 82 percent would prefer the park to be gated when it's closed. Gating is
pretty traditional in most of our parks outside of Fountain Park. Most of our parks, when
they close at 11 p.m., the gates are closed. But that is to note that most of our parks do
close at 11. Our trailheads, however, close at sunset. So this would not be out of the
ordinary.
If a parking lot was installed, 76 percent would prefer a hybrid surface.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Excuse me. I'm sorry.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Yeah?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: What would not be out of the ordinary?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: If we decided to close this park at sunset --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Uh-huh.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: -- as opposed to 11, like most of our other parks.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Yep. Thank you.
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DIRECTOR GOODWIN: If a parking lot was used -- or installed, 76 percent would
prefer a hybrid surface. This kind of goes back to something that our Vice Mayor was
mentioning earlier today about using alternate surfaces. If we were to move forward with
this, this might be a good test area for something like that, to be a little more eco minded,
improve drainage, et cetera.
And then, again, if the parking lot were installed, 66 percent feel that five to ten parking
spaces are sufficient in addition to the ADA. Another 27 percent felt a little more
between 11 and 15 would be fitting. So we could certainly look at that to see what the
space accommodated.
So that first question, we had 126 comments from folks. They all fell into common
themes. Some were a little more detailed than others, but this gives you a general idea of
what the comments were. A lot of the comments were opposed to the park or
development in this location. When I say a lot, probably about 100 or so, so a vast
majority did comment that they were opposed to the park. There was noted concerns
about traffic and parking and vehicular speed near the area. There was concerns about
homeless encampments, drug usage, sales, illicit activity, teen hangouts, alcohol parties.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Do we -- over 100 said they didn't want the park?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Um -hum.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Out of 227?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: 208.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Okay. Do you read anything into -- I guess you can't --
read anything into the fact that you have 500 homes, 450, 500, who didn't say they don't
want the park or do want the park. I mean, it's hard to -- I guess I would think that if so
many people didn't want the park, you would think they'd write that in, and you only
got --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: It's a hard one to answer because we had a lot of folks reach
out outside of the survey. I know there's been a lot of dialogue outside of what we'll call
this communication tool. This was just one tool to gather that feedback. I know a
number of folks have shared their opinions via email and through different resources
online. And so it is a very contested place. It is a very interesting conversation, and
there's a lot to it. It's not a black -and -white conversation. This survey was an attempt to
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start looking at that, but it certainly -- it's certainly not cut and dry by any means.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Okay.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I have been reached out to no less than 15 people. I
live up in North Heights, just north of Sunridge. 65 percent of them are against it. I'm
just wondering -- and a lot of them said, you know what? That survey was tainted to
make it sound like it was already a done deal and it was already approved and it's going
to be done. These are what your amenities choices are.
I'm just wondering, would it make sense to find another way to survey these people and
ask that question. Do you want a park there? Yes or no? I don't know what it would
cost, you know, 778 homes. Maybe we don't have all the email addresses. Is there
another format that we can use and find out from these people, I mean, rather than just
proceed or do something? Maybe it's an idea that, you know, isn't warranted.
MANAGER MILLER: And by the way, I mean, I think that's a good idea. We were
not -- we did not look at this survey as something that we were trying to just roll over all
of those residents, and I went on record when we had that July 29th meeting, and of
course, I didn't run this by you as the Council, who previously approved the project, but I
said, if there's clearly no support, we're not going to put a park someplace where no one
wants it, so -- and I mean that. But at the same time, there's an issue where unfortunately
people, you know, all these concerns got ahead of the cart. We normally go through open
houses and go through a design curator, or have a landscape architect. We invite the
residents to a meeting. We show them kind of some concepts. And we've heard loud and
clear: nobody wants a very active park at that location. And we don't want an active
park because it's going to mean a lot of maintenance and upkeep, and it's going to bring a
lot of people and traffic and all that from the area. So I like the idea of doing a follow-up
survey. I really do, because one, as you saw -- we probably had maybe 13 percent, if I'm
just doing the math off the top of my head. And I don't know how many two -member
households put in, you know, separate votes or separate submittals. So I think that's a
good idea. We were thinking, as you get to the end of this presentation --
And why don't you advance the slide to the next --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: We have a couple of other slides before the one I think you're
thinking of.
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MANAGER MILLER: Okay.
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MAYOR DICKEY: But to that point, and I would like to follow up on what Grady just
shared. When we first developed the survey, we were under the impression that the HOA
had everyone's email so that it would be a complete and fully accessible. It wasn't until
after the fact that we realized that they did not, and we probably should have -- had we
known that, we would have gone a different route, by either doing a mailing or a postcard
or something of that nature. So learned that in hindsight.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I think it's an excellent idea. Normally, people who are
against something are the ones who tend to come out publicly. However, we may find
that two-thirds of the people don't want it. I won't know how to go on this without that
kind of information.
MCMAHON: Is this the park -- well, it's not a park. Is this where the trailhead -- where
you were talking about having a place for people to park and access to the trailhead?
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: So basically, maybe the wrong term of art is being
used as far as it being a park. I mean --
MANAGER MILLER: Your memory -- I'll jump in on this. Your memory is absolutely
correct. We had Council direction to put in the parking lot so that neighbors there would
not be impacted negatively by cars parking on the street that were trying to access the
trail. And so that's what actually immediately mobilized the homeowners association,
because they didn't know anything about this.
And then, they brought to our attention, which I don't know how this happened, but that
there had been --
What was it, ten years earlier?
MAYOR DICKEY: At least.
MANAGER MILLER: -- ten years earlier that the Sunridge Homeowners Association
never granted permission for an easement for us to put the trail in that we were
proposing. And that -- the reason for that is Rachael and I came in after that. Her
predecessor was here when that was done; however, we did have some MMPC board
members that might have remembered that but didn't come to our attention.
So unfortunately, that's exactly what happened, and that's what initially got people very
upset. We have since dropped that. In fact, we're about to send a letter to the
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homeowners association because when we met with the community manager last
Thursday, she said she thought that was still on the table. And I said, no, no. We have
taken that off the table. That's not something. We've checked with our legal counsel, and
there's no way we can pursue that because they had already -- they had already acted on
that. That trail -- we should have known about that before we had even put it into our
capital plan -- or our capital program.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Okay. So this property can't be used to access
the -- when all the trails connect, this can't be used for a parking place?
MANAGER MILLER: Physically, it's across the street --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: -- from where the trailhead would have been.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Right.
MANAGER MILLER: So this is actually a five -acre site right at the corner of Sunridge
Canyon Drive and Desert Canyon.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: So if I can, I think there's three projects that we're talking
about. We're talking about a trail, trail access; we're talking about a park; and then a
parking lot that would potentially serve as both of those. The trail portion is no longer
valid. It's not something we can move forward with, and that project is officially off the
books.
The park component is what we're talking about now, specifically the development of the
five -acre parcel. And so the parking lot would still service potentially that, but it
certainly wouldn't need to be the same size and scope if it were serving both amenities, if
that -- does that make more sense? Okay.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I'll just follow up. It occurs to me that -- and I favor
another survey, but if we ask to favor or not, I'm afraid a lot of people are going to say
well, it depends. So we might want to ask, for those who favor it, passive or active,
something like that.
MAYOR DICKEY: Well, I think -- so just to back up a little bit from what Peggy said,
because we kind of wheedled through this, because I looked at the zip (phonetic) from
19-20 -- or 20-21. That's what it was, 2021. And it was the park. Then it turned into the
trail thing. Because I was looking all over for it like, why is this such a surprise? I know
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we passed this, because it was the year before, but it was still a project that went through
the whole process. We just haven't don't it yet. So that explains a little bit why the
questioning wasn't "do you want it", it was "what do you want it to be?" As far as it
being passive, I think that's pretty much a given, but I'd be more comfortable knowing
how more people feel about it in general. But overall, from the town point of view, when
you put neighborhood parks in, there are parameters. Like, you got this many people that
live here. This is how many parks should be within ten minutes or whatever it is
walking. So there's also a community aspect to this too.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Right.
MAYOR DICKEY: So I think -- but I feel like we can't do anything until we really
know what Jerry was talking about.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Mayor, to your point, the next slide actually hits right exactly
what you just mentioned.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Can I just also remind you that you got a gold star
because in the survey, I think it was like, 96 percent of the residents of this town liked the
present locations and the facilities of all of our parks. So we may find that we don't even
need this one. It's possible.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Well, so keep in mind, the one other thing I wanted to kind of
throw out there to you is to keep in mind that this park is an identified park, and it isn't
necessarily -- and I had a great conversation earlier today about the understanding that
this park would be developed -- used or developed with development funds. That's what
those funds are earmarked for. As our community grows or grew, it was our commitment
to continue to build facilities and public spaces. So this has been identified since the last
general plan, the 2010 general plan, as a park space. So we're kind of behind the curve, if
you will, in terms of what we were planning to do.
So in terms of standards, and I think that's what the mayor was referencing, this kind of
gives you an idea of "why a park?" Who wants a park here? Why would we do a park
here?" Back to the idea of -- this isn't what I just, you know, think about at nighttime.
This is a -- this is based on a national standards and recommendations, and that's really
where this was developed, and part of the master plan is that, generally speaking,
communities of our size and scope have a standard of 9.6 acres per 1,000 residents. We
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currently have 5 acres. The number of residents compared with (indiscernible), so
usually, that rounds out to a standard of one park per 2,200, 2,300 people. We have one
park for every 5,000 or so. So this is, again, just trying to work towards those standards,
those measurability things that lead back to that quality of life, hopefully the foc -- that
people are appreciating. Part of the conversation about, you know, keeping our
community as a healthy place to live, work, and play.
Again, why was this space designated as a park? Well, it was part of the general plan. It
was part of the adopted parks, recreation, and trails master plan. And then, it was also
noted in the Council's strategic plan, the previous one, not the one getting ready to be
voted on.
I pulled this excerpt out of the general plan because again, this is what's driving staff
priorities and things like that to support our different development strategies. Public
spaces is one of those. Fountain Hills supports three pillars of thriving social
environment: improve the health and wellness through parks and recreation that inspire
personal growth and healthy lifestyles, enhance connectivity by expanding and
strengthening outdoor experiences that connect residents and visitors to nature and each
other.
So those are sort of those driving factors that we're making a lot of these decisions on --
or these recommendations. The decision, ultimately, is going to come back to Council
and where you'd like us to go next. With that in mind, and I think this is where Grady
was going, here are a few -- you know, a few items or a few ideas about direction. And
we're open to those, how you'd like to proceed. I think a survey sounds like a great next
step. We can look at what we'd like to know, and then, again, craft the questions around
that.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: I think we just found the funding vehicle for your
umbrella -- if it doesn't work out as a park.
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Could maybe you take a look at not having it be
like a park, per se, if it's chosen not to sell this property, but like, in here is a meditative
healing walk, like have it be a natural trail or another part of the community garden -type
of thing, so people can just enjoy walking there, or instead of it being like a park?
Because I think that given what we heard and some of the public comments and stuff, it
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seems to have a negative connotation to it in that particular place.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: You're right. There have been a couple of things that are
semantics that say well, park, I think of this. I don't think of nature trails and natural
topography and things like that. So there is a semantics thing there, absolutely.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: I actually was going to comment similar to
Peggy that what I found when I have this conversation with people is you can't -- you
can't say -- what are the words -- passive versus active park, especially to a town where if
you go back a slide or two and look at the parks that we currently have, most all of our
parks are everything to everybody. We've got the children --
MANAGER MILLER: Dogs.
COUNCILMEMBER GRZYBOWSKI: Right. The Dogs. They're all -encompassing.
And actually, we're talking about doing more playground nearby the dog park, so one -
stop -shop for all of your family needs. But that's not the intent for this park. So when
I'm able to have a conversation with someone to help them understand that what
community services director has said to me is, imagine as a zen-like park, that they're
actually going to use the topography and, as much as they can, the existing prettiness and
just kind of make nature trails, that that's the way Rachael has talked about it all along.
Once I have that kind of conversation and they see that it's not going to be attracting the
teenagers to hang out at the zipline or the tot lot or the splash pad or any of that kind of
stuff, they're much more welcoming to the conversation. But because we don't have
anything like that in town, it's really hard for us to imagine that.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: And I think there's a little chicken -and -egg there too because
we want -- ideally, I'd love to put out, hey, these are a couple of options of what we kind
of envision for the space and get feedback, kind of that design (indiscernible) that Grady
had mentioned. However, that got flipped and said, instead of us doing a design, tell us
what you want. So now, we're sort of, again, that chicken -and -egg. We can take some of
this feedback, potentially have a few designs, and incorporate that as part of the survey.
We can wait and do a secondary survey and then use that information. I don't want to get
too far down one path if it's not a project we're going to pursue, so.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Rachael, a friend told me that when the survey was sent out -- is it true that the survey
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was sent out by the HOA, but prior or attached to the survey being sent out, the HOA had
commented letting residents know that they were opposed to this issue?
COUNCILMEMBER GOODWIN: Correct. The email that went out to residents -- so
we provided a sample email and said, hey, here's some sample language you can use. To
my knowledge, that's not what was used. An email that went out through the HOA did
note that they were against it and they were not supportive and provided a couple of ways
for folks to share their feedback about the survey.
COUNCILMEMBER SPELICH: So how could we possibly lend any credibility to the
survey whatsoever when it's sent out shady like that? I mean, I'm open minded to this. I
haven't made a decision one way or another. My friend that lives there is totally for it.
There's many people that are against it, and I get emails. I mean, there was an email that
said putting a park there was going to increase drive-bys. You've got to give me a break,
okay? Just -- I -- I mean, I promise that if a park winds up being there, I'll sit down with
the gangster disciples and the Latin Kings to offer a truce to make sure that no drive -by
shootings are done in that. I mean, if you're going to send us emails, make them make
sense of either why you're for it or why you're against it, not the nonsense of it going to
increase drive -by shootings. Give me a break.
And then we need to really focus on, if we're going to do this survey, to make it legit, that
only the town is involved in gathering the -- putting out the questions and gathering the
feedback without the HOA involved because obviously, the board of the HOA is
resoundingly -- we know their position.
MAYOR DICKEY: Vice Mayor?
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: I'm hearing some comments that are resonating with me,
which is the possibility of sending out -- if we could do it inexpensively -- a color
whatever, rendering or what it would look like with trees and a path or something,
something nonthreatening. I think that might get a totally different response than just
leaving it open-ended, because I think what I'm hearing, and I think that's right, people
think of splash pads and drive-bys and all kinds of crap. You know, all kinds of --
[CROSS TALK]
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: All kinds of stuff like that. And if they see that it's all
green with trees and a path or two, I think it may generate a much different response.
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MAYOR DICKEY: I have another question. When we look at doing this in the context
of the general plan, voter approved, these numbers here, is that area the -- and when you
do a neighborhood park, is that the only place you would ever consider the opinion of?
You know, we talk about age -- you know, age and median age in Fountain Hills and
such, and there are people who live in communities because there's a park within walking
distance -- with kids, of course. So is it strictly -- is that the only consideration or do we
have a community consideration?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: That's a great question. And this should be weighed on
different sort of heights. You know, the 5,000-foot view looks really different than the
50,000-foot view. This park specifically -- and you'll note that there's a couple of parks
up there on that map that show the future park locations. Most of them are identified on
currently town -owned property. So that's one hurdle. If we were to look at another site
that's not town owned, we would need to look at how we would acquire that, and that's
obviously more cost. That's not out of the picture. We have looked at other properties
and have made inquiries about acquisition, but it's just a much longer, drawn -out process.
The three that are noted on here are town owned currently. This of those three is the
smallest and most accessible, I'll say, in terms of scale and scope and investment. The
other future sites are quite large and will take much more of a investment financially
speaking, so we're not at a place where we can do that.
Additionally, we look at this map -- and you can kind of use it as a heat map, if you will,
to show what communities have access, which communities have walkable access to
parks, and which areas of our community do not. An idea would be, if and when we're
ready to develop a park, to increase that service area. So you can kind see, you know, our
western and southern edges are the lower reached areas. A lot of our parks are
concentrated along our eastern border. So looking to increase that and have a better reach
for our community because, to your point, when we talk about attracting families, when
we talk about making this a livable community, access to parks is a big part of that, a big
part of that lifestyle. And you're right, this park is different than most of our other parks.
It's not designed to be a super active park. It's not designed to have our namesake
fountain in the middle. Folks chose to live near Fountain Park when that's what they
want to have access to. The conversation here is to create park spaces -- large, small,
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pocket parks, community parks -- that are accessible to everybody. So yes. We would
certainly look at other locations. This is the peace that, A, lends itself to it, that is the size
and scope of what we can manage, and has been previously identified. So again, all of
those boxes are checked, if you will, in terms of a project making sense right now. If
you'd like us to look at other locations, we can certainly do that.
MAYOR DICKEY: No. I think maybe you misread what I was --
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Oh, okay.
MAYOR DICKEY: What I was saying was that -- is that -- are those the only -- the
people that are in a general area, when you look at putting in a neighborhood park, do
you only consider the input from the people that are in that area, or is there more global
desire.
MANAGER MILLER: Let me chime in on that, because we're doing something here
totally backwards. And I'm not being critical to staff or the neighbors or anything. But
back several years ago, we had a master developer that didn't do what the norm was for
most of these neighborhoods. All the cities around the Valley all require the developer to
put in these neighborhood parks, and they would work with the design and what they
wanted to see as far as amenities, and the builder would put those in. This is just kind of
going back and making up -- just like we were having to put in sidewalks in a town that
sidewalks should have already been in. So it's very similar to that, and we're having to go
back. So in this case, yes. Neighborhood parks, you really want to have the input of the
neighborhood that's adjacent or is going to be the primary beneficiary of it because it's
supposed to serve their neighborhood. So community parks, much broader. They tend to
serve a broader area, so you want to have a broader cross-section of the community. So
that -- I'm sorry. We gave you kind of a roundabout answer. I apologize.
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: Well, I would say our community -- our master plan -- our
survey -- or master parks plan that we did and we adopted was probably that community -
wide survey, that survey that said, how do you feel about parks? Do you think we need
more? And over 80 percent of the survey takers said yes, we want more parks and trails
and connectivity. So that's again that sort of resounding voice in a general sense that
says, yes, as a community, this is something that's important to us.
COUNCILMEMBER FRIEDEL: Do we have any parks in Sunridge now?
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DIRECTOR GOODWIN: It's my understanding that the HOA has two pocket parks, but
I don't have a map or an identification of where they are located or what they have.
MANAGER MILLER: They're HOA Greenbelt areas that are maintained. They call
them parks.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yes. Thank you. Well, it's probably unfortunate
we got off on the wrong foot on this whole thing, you know, and now we're trying to kind
of back our way in. And I mean, I'm in favor of getting some more input and
information, too, from the neighborhood. I just -- and I think it could be a unique kind of
area. Even if we do the zen thing or trail thing, you're still going to need, you now, some
parking area in there. And you know, five acres in the scope of all of our parks in the
town isn't a lot. So I mean, I -- you know, I was on the first parks and recs commission.
I'm all pro -park, you know. But it's just like, it's unfortunate it's gotten to this point
where we're going to get a ton of pushback even if we do something minimal, but, you
know, I can see the benefit of it and, again, would favor seeing some conceptual plans or
what have you, some more input. But, you know, part of me also says, you know, is it
worth it? You know, is it worth the fight? I mean, I've gone to bat for some projects out
here that have been controversial and "won some, lost some" type of thing. So you know
on the big scope of Council and what we do and who we represent and what we're
supposed to do, and part of me is like, you know, is it really worth the fight, although I
think it could be a very worthwhile, peaceful -- and I totally agree with Dave. Like, a lot
of the arguments are, as usual for just about anything in this town, are totally outrageous
and blown out of proportion. So usually, things get done and then people get used to it.
And it's -- oh. It's been there. It's really nice. That's usually how it works out. And I can
see that working out with this too. But I think we've just got to be a little more cautious
in terms of how we proceed from here.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Rachael, if we're going to go out with another survey,
would you protect us all by showing it to us before you go out with it?
DIRECTOR GOODWIN: I'd be happy to.
VICE MAYOR MAGAZINE: Thank you.
MANAGER MILLER: We'll do it by mail too.
COUNCILMEMBER SCHARNOW: Yeah. Which reminds me, because I was
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surprised, you only had seven questions in the survey? Because I don't see anything
about a shade structure in there, so I -- it just shocked me that --
MANAGER MILLER: That was good.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right. Anything for the good of the order? No. I want to thank
everybody --
COUNCILMEMBER MCMAHON: Thank you, everybody. That was a great
presentation.
MAYOR DICKEY: Yeah. And I really appreciate all your hard work, and get some rest.
Thank you.
MANAGER MILLER: Thank you all.
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