HomeMy WebLinkAbout2022.1115.TCWS.MinutesTOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
MINUTES OF THE WORK SESSION
OF THE FOUNTAIN HILLS TOWN COUNCIL
NOVEMBER 15, 2022
1. CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Dickey called the Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on
November 15, 2022, to order at 8:48 p.m.
2. ROLL CALL
Members Present: Mayor Ginny Dickey: Vice Mayor Gerry Friedel; Councilmember
David Spelich; Councilmember Sharron Grzybowski; Councilmember Alan Magazine;
Councilmember Peggy McMahon; Councilmember Mike Scharnow
Members Absent: None
Staff Present: Town Manager Grady E. Miller; Town Attorney Aaron D. Arnson; Town
Clerk Linda Mendenhall
Audience: No members of the public were present.
3. REGULAR AGENDA
A. Allana Buick and Bers will be presenting its next steps, short and long term
progress report related to water/moisture intrusion issues at the Community
Center.
Eugene Buick, Senior Principal with Allana Buick and Bers provided a progress
report on the water/moisture intrusion issues at the Fountain Hills Community
Center and answered councils' questions.
4. ADJOURNMENT
With no further discussion, Mayor Dickey adjourned the Work Session.
The Work Session of the Fountain Hills Town Council held on November 15, 2022,
adjourned at 9:18 p.m.
G. Menden all, To
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
DI
Giy Dicketf, Mayor
CERTIFICATION
I hereby certify that the foregoing minutes are a true and correct copy of the minutes of
the Work Session held by the Town Council of Fountain Hills in the Town Hall Council
Chambers on the 15'h day of November 2022. I further certify that the meeting was duly
called and that a quorum was present
DATED this 3id Day of January 2023.23
Mendenhall, Town Town Cleric
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS Page 1 of 13
NOVEMBER 15, 2022 WORK SESSION
Post -Production File
TOWN OF FOUNTAIN HILLS
November 15, 2022 Work Session
Transcription Provided By:
eScribers, LLC
Transcription is provided in order to facilitate communication accessibility and may not
be a totally verbatim record of the proceedings.
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NOVEMBER 15, 2022 WORK SESSION
MAYOR DICKEY: Hey there, we're back in session for a work study. And Grady, if
you want to get us started.
MILLER: Yes, really quickly, you recall, last month, we -- we gave a presentation on
this. We had hired a firm that actually helped us do some analysis of the water intrusion
at the community center, which we've been having some problems with. They actually
did some actual water -- battery tests of water on the windows and on the doors and they
were able to, kind of see, where the real issues were.
The way we left that last meeting was we asked for them to come back and help prioritize
what needs to be done and the estimated costs. So that's what they're here for tonight.
And the timing is good because we also intend to try to come up with some work that
we're trying to get underway right now. And also to start planning for our capital
improvement program.
With that, I'll turn it over to -- 1 know Justin has some other comments, as well. So I'll
turn it over to our public works director before he introduces Mr. Buick.
WELDY: Thank you, Mr. Miller.
As stated, Eugene Buick will be giving you a more detailed report on actions that we've
taken and some actions that are going to be needed. With that, I will remind that this is
actually a marathon to get the work done here. And with that said, you start running a
immediately for a marathon. And the town staff, under the direction of the Town
Manager, has done that.
I would like to take just a moment to thank the facilities staff, Steve (ph.), Paul (ph.), and
Mark (ph.) for the work that they have been doing since this was brought to our attention.
At no time did we just, simply, ring our hands and say, oh well. We immediately went to
the Town Manager and sought funding and solutions. And since the renovation was
underway of the community center, we have continued to work on short-term solutions.
As part of that, there has been an incredible amount of anxiety and people upset, and their
blood pressure high over the amount of funding that was spent. 1 want to reiterate again
that we would have never moved forward with that project had we known that there was
other areas that were subject to water intrusion outside of the moisture in the foundation.
When I was recently discussing this in an internal meeting, one of the directors in the
town said, you mentioned a few things on here that the Council may not actually be
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aware of., and it may appear to the public and some of the members of the Council that
you're not giving them the full picture. I'm going to do that right now.
You are full aware because we have made you aware of the storefronts, windows, and
doors. These are construction deficiencies. We have also made you aware of the
ongrad -- grade slab moistures. Again, this is another construction deficiency from
original construction. Some of the stuff that we're working on internally, and have been
working on -- and once again, I'll revert back to the professionals that we are fortunate
enough to have on this staff, here -- is the roof. The roof is nearing it's service life and
it's actually in our facilities or placement for a really big ticket for replacement. Steve
Bartlett (ph.), our facilities supervisor, has been working diligently and has discovered a
product that is, not only, suitable, but preferred as opposed to removing and replacing six
substantial cost savings. And very shortly, we are going to use some of the budgeted
money that we have for maintenance to test a big spot to make sure what they selling
us -- they're selling us is what were going to buy.
Roof drains. This is a really large building with lots of parapet walls on top and it would
be very difficult to move all of the storm water or condensation from any of the units up
there to the outside edges. So believe it or not, there are storm drains for runoff that
come down through the interior walls. Those galvanized pipes are connected with, what I
refer to as, a furnco but the professional term for that is a no hub. It is basically some
clamps and rubber that are put on as Steve (ph.) and his staff are working to inspect and
repairs those with contractors and themselves. They're noticing some deficiencies and
some, just, poor installation over the years. Several of these are very, very difficult to get
to. And it takes a little while for us to do that and allow the building to continue to
operate.
Another one that causes some stainage on the tiles -- roof leaks is one of those -- is that
building has cooling lines that run everywhere in the ceiling. These copper lines
basically provide service to each and every room, independently, or when you open up a
ballroom, all four of those independent areas come together to provide I-IVAC. Those
lines and the installation on them, often times, have condensation. So you'll see a little
spot in the corner of a tile or in the cent of a tile. Most of that is from that condensation.
As you'll recall from the last meeting, I referenced turkey pans that were in the suspended
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ceiling. That's what those pans were doing. As opposed to removing and replacing,
and/or servicing those pans, Steve and his group, along with contractors, are fixing that.
Lastly, and 1 think this is important to note, while we consider the community center and
what it provides this community an immense value, and we would like to address
everything as quickly as we can, a couple of projects that we have been currently working
on over the weekend, that you are well aware of in regards to the remediation, are
relatively small projects, not only for the remediation company but the restoration
company, and the testing facility, and the lab. I am grateful that they have agreed to
come out here day, nights, and weekends and remain open and do this type of work for a
project this small so we could accomplish the end goal, which is to rid the community
center of these organic matters and repair it, and get it back open and operating.
At the same time, and out of sight but critically important, there has been a contractor out
there sealing these windows. I, personally, am impressed. And I've watched them
several times, now, actually applying their product. For those of you who may have an
opportunity, please go over and look. This company is -- all they do is sealing caulking.
And they were actually able to tent color. The material that they're using to match our
trim that we just had painted -- and unless you look really, really close, you almost can't
tell that this new stuff is there.
Again, Eugene Beers is going to -- excuse me, Eugene Buick is going to share a bunch of
additional information with you regarding what we have done, what we intend to do, and
were going to need to do in the future. But I thought it was critical to share some of the
upfront information with you about what's going on currently.
With that, Mr. Buick, and if you would, please?
BUICK: Thank you, Justin. You're welcome.
Good evening, Madam Mayor and Council, Grady, Aaron. What I'm going to do today is
review several of the action items, priority items, short-term repairs, and long-term
repairs. I do want to preface this discussion in that there are some, what's classified as a,
short-term repair may actually be a longer -term repair. And that is the wet seal.
In our industry, in the waterproofing and building and envelope industry, it is common
practice for high rises to go through a wet seal process. Provided that it's installed and
executed correctly -- and I'll give you and example of what that means and what that
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includes.
So as far as the action items, since September, there have been many events. Justin
touched on the organic growth. And what's happened is there have been lab -- there's
been testing that's been performed. The interior wall cavities were sampled. And in
some instances, there were microbial samples found. And the plan was to hire restoration
companies to remove that drywall and clean these areas. Along with this, there was also
and HBAC balance test that was performed by Omega Test and Balance. There's a report
in progress. But the report from the vendor is the system is performing a very close to
original design specs. In addition to that, there were three sewer line contractors that we
reached out to, and three -- two of the three, unfortunately, didn't provide a quote. But
two additional contractors did visit the site and provided quotes to -- to review the sewer
lines and line the sewer lines. So a lot of work's happening, here, at the site. Gensler,
and architectural firm, has been reached out to as well and discussions are ongoing with
them to prepare a price to look at the whole building repair design.
And of course, the caulking contractor is currently sealing the windows. So these areas
that are being repaired, the goal is not only to repair these areas and allow them to
continue to get wet, but the goal is to repair them and then seal them at the same time to
stop the water from entering these cavities. The staff also prepared a water intrusion map
in mid -October. And then also, we were asked to prepare this prioritization plan.
So I won't read through all of these, but the bottom line is remediation of lobby's
complete and the interior drywall is repaired at the time we prepared this presentation.
And actively, the windows and doors are being sealed. There's another roof -- roof
problem area about one hundred eight -- 850 square feet that will be repaired. That's
going to happen the third week of November, 1 guess.
BARTLETT: Sony, say that again?
BUICK: The repair work for the roof.
BARTLETT: Oh, that's supposed to be starting the third week in November.
BUICK: Third week of November. So it's right around the corner.
There's another area being explored and that's the slab. There's a moisture issue there and
what's being discussed is in -- introduced as using a blanket barrier. I guess, the
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contractor injects a material to stop and mitigate the moisture issues.
So just as a reminder, I did review some near -term review options. The wet sealing of
the windows, which is now underway. That includes application of sealants around the
perimeter of the windows. Also several doors were repaired or sealed. I think it was
about eleven doors where there were sealants applied and thresholds reset in sealant.
In terms of other short-term repair options for consideration but not underway yet, are
trench drains and sockets to manage the water flow near the drains. And then, also,
replacement of some of the hardscape. There is an area by the, I guess would be, the
senior services area where there's reverse slope and ponding water. And that is going to
be demolished and possibly replaced with more of a softscape or decomposed granite to
help water drain out.
Repairs to interior finishes have been ongoing. And the, of course, once these wet seals
are performed, we recommend spray testing some of these wet seals and see if water
intrusion has, either, stopped or reduced greatly. So that -- that's around the corner, as
well.
So let's talk about the near -term solution. To help explain what a wet seal is, you could
see this gentleman, he's using a tool. He's using a tool that has helped -- what it does is
help shape the sealant. That's -- that's -- that's a great installation method and I was
please to hear that the contractor that you hired is using tools. The other way that some
of us would use is our finger, and then you wet it a little bit so that your finger doesn't get
stuck to the sealant. And unfortunately, sometimes you do see that but not -- not in this
case. And you can see how beautiful these sealants look on the photo on the right where
it's perfectly coved, it's barely visible. And then, you do also have some of these tapes
and sealants that are applied over joints. So the challenge with these windows and
assemblies is you have a lot ofjointery which allow water in.
And if the seal -- if the system wasn't installed correctly in the first place, water just gets
in and -- in so many ways. So the wet sealing contractor's applying sealant, not only
between the glass, and the frame, and the frame of the perimeter, but also at these joints
to help stop water from coming in.
Near -tern solutions reminder. What's still being explored is grinding and sloping the
trench drain. One way is to grind the reverse -slope concrete. The other way is to
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introduce a sloping compound. So those are being studied right now.
In terms of a priority, windows and doors a priority number one. Reverse -slope patio,
particularly at the senior service area, is a priority. And then the second on the list would
be address these window sills and reverse -slope concrete, and exploring these trench
drains.
So I prepared some round estimates. The window, I had a round estimate of 75,000 to
90,000. Your current contract's actually less than 20,000 right now for the wet sealing.
So you have a local vendor, experienced, using the right tools, and thus far, looks like
they're going to be under 20. Doors, those -- some repairs have already occurred and
those will continue to -- to be worked on. And then, of course, the reverse -slope
concrete, roughly 25 to 35,000, depending on what sort of softscape material you go back
with. And then, 30 to 40,00 for the reverse -slope concrete. And 50 to 75,000 for trench
drains. So all in all, there's a estimated budget over the next coming year, year and a half,
of about quarter million to 355,000.
Now, it looks like, with some of the recent pricing that you received for the window wet
sealing, for example, that this number's going to be less. But nonetheless, it's a round
figure right now.
In terms of the schedule for the near -term items, the window, door sealing, and concrete
patio removal, it's -- the work's started and it's going to continue through June 2023.
Reverse -slope concrete and fence drains, probably somewhere around June 2024. And
you know, it 's easy to say that, look, we want to do this work but you have to plan it out.
You have to do a little bit of engineering. Draw some drawings and help bid some of this
work out. So this will be an ongoing process.
As far as the window and door sealing, although we classify it as a near -term solution, if
ifs properly executed, it tests out through the water testing, it could be something that
lasts five years, ten years, fifteen years actually. Wet sealing's a very, very common
method of treating issues.
Now, 1 do have long-term recommendations and these were discussed at the prior
presentation. The long-term recommendations are really dependent on the outcome of
these short-term solutions. And as I've indicated, the short-term solutions, if they're
successful, may actually help reduce the scope -- reduce the scope. But I'm not going to
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assume it's going to work, I'm going to present what this could include, potentially. The
replacement of the windows, the doors. And replacing windows is not easy because it
integrates with the stucco and the effuse. And what you have to do is, you have to
remove this material around the perimeter of the window and you can imagine -- there's
two ways to approach this. You just do a localized patch and patch it back in. And for
those of you who have -- who have replaced your windows or seen other projects where
windows get replaced, you can often times see the patch.
This is a first-class building, you're going to want to actually blend all the patches. And
what that means is were not just replacing the windows, you're going to repair and
repatch a portion of the effuse and stucco, but also reskim the finish, which is -- which
means it costs money. So -- but -- but done right, it can look really good. And then, of
course, you have to coat and patch it.
There's an option here for additional grinding. Once the windows are doors are removed,
additional hardscape work and -- when you do remove a window, you do have to do a
little bit of drywall work, as well, around the perimeter so you can properly install these
assemblies. And then these systems also include additional sheet metal. So sheet metal
underneath the window assemblies. Sheet metal above the window assemblies. So -- and
you know, and then when you do restoration work, you also have to consider the -- the
unknown. Right. And -- and with proper planning, you consider the unknown. There
are unforeseen condition -- conditions so you include contingency. And then design
inspection fees run twelve to fifteen percent.
So from a conservative approach, if we have to replace the windows, if you have to
replace the doors, if you have to break the stucco, based on our findings, then you're
looking at a preliminary budget of, roughly, $2.9 to $3.9 million dollars. But again, it's
subject to the success of the short-term repairs.
What does our schedule look like? And I think Grady touched on it -- actually, Justin
touched on it. It -- you don't just come up with a plan for repair, you have to fund it. It
takes time. You have to evaluate the various repair approaches. So the first thing is to,
prior to -- actually, prior to retaining the architectural design firm, I would say, part of
this is also to evaluate these water intrusion measures and then develop a capital budget.
And it's going to take time. And that budget's going to involve going over through a pros
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and cons session of good -better -best approaches to these window assemblies. Are there
some other repairs you'd like to do at the building, alongside these window replacements
such as some additional painting and embellishments around the window. Maybe some
canopies. But by the time you get through that process, you're -- you're probably looking
at soliciting bids somewhere in 2027. It takes a long time to plan for this and awarding a
contract around October 2027 and then construction in 2028.
So the hope is that the short-term repairs are successful and performing. And buys you
enough time to really think through what this facility really needs. So. Any questions?
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
Any questions? Comments? Councilman?
MAGAZINE: In looking at the list and the cost, I may have missed it. I didn't see the
roof. Was that in there?
BUICK: It -- that's outside my scope. But --
MAGAZINE: That's an additional cost?
BUICK: That's an additional cost, corrcct.
MAGAZINE: You have any idea, even a ballpark?
BUICK: I don't know -- Justin, do you have any idea?
JUSTIN: I really can't. I don't want to make some shit up.
MAYOR DICKEY: The roof is --
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: [LAUGHTER].
MAYOR DICKEY: The roof far as replacing it or doing what you were talking about
with the seal stuff?
JUSTIN: Madam Mayor and Councilmembers, so this is actually just a -- basically
scraping it and recoating it. And I -- I don't want to give a bad number because that's the
number that people have a tendency to remember. But we know that replacing it is in the
four to seven dollar a square foot, which is a big number --
BARTLETT: That's a pretty close part of it. New form -- new foam ten year will last
(indiscernible) yeah, six bucks a foot plus.
WELDY: And he -- so he's looking at some quotes for that type of work that we've
received. But the ceiling -- and he's digging through his numbers, here -- is substantially
lower.
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So the sealing product that we're going to be proposing is substantially lower in cost and
as effective, if not better than, replacing the roof. And again, substantially less. But that
is in facilities, reserve, and maintenance.
[CROSS TALK]
WELDY: Separate from capital.
MAGAZINE: The gentleman said it's not within the scope. And I hear the roof wasn't
included. What else is not within your scope?
BUICK: 1 think it's probably the roof, really.
UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: So --
BUICK: There are going to be other elements, HVAC and what not, are going to have
some maintenance repairs, some plumbing repairs but I think were -- I'm attacking, I'm
reviewing fundamentally what's contributing to the lion's share of these issues, which are
the windows and doors.
MAGAZINE: Obviously, we're talking a lot of contractors. Arc they all war -- do we
have warranties on all of them. Will we have -- yes, Justin? You're shaking your head.
On all of them?
MAYOR DICKEY: Will we have what?
MAGAZINE: Warranty.
BUICK: Warranty. Absolutely. That's going to be in your contracts --
MAGAZINE: Okay.
WELDY: -- and --
MAGAZINE: Just making sure.
JUSTIN: And I just --
MAGAZINE: A lot of surprises.
MILLER: -- and I just want to point out that the roof has been in our replacement plan
for the building. It's not just the community center, but also the library and the museum
which were built about the same time period.
And it is not a conventional- type roof. It is a foam, or spray -on type roof. And
what our facilities director was able to find out was that this particular process he's
researched, has a sub -roof material that goes on and then it -- you do have the spray -on,
or whatever, that goes over that. And then had -- 1 asked, could that be something that
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after, you know, it's useful life of fifteen years, or whatever, can -- do you have to remove
that or scrape it off? And he's like, no, you can go on a few more years, or a few more
occasions, before you have to do that, which is very unusual for that type of a roof
system. So --
BUICK: I could speak to, if I may, to the foam roof systems. Typically -- and we've
designed repairs from roof systems -- and typically, you look at recoating them and
getting another fifteen years life out of them, or if the surface of the foam is bad, you
scarify an interest so -- and then reapply another thin layer of foam. And then, you recoat
it. It is rare that you demolish it all the way down to the substrate. It's -- it's unnecessary,
costly, and actually very messy. So I think, going through a coating program is typically
the standard of care.
FRIEDEL: You brought up the roofs. Do we know if the roofs on the other buildings
arc the same as the one we have on the community center? They are? So you're product,
Justin, could probably work on those other ones, as well, if it's successful'?
WELDY: The intent, Councilmember, moving forward, is that if this test patch were
doing works as we're being told it will, that would be what we'll use for -- moving
forward on all three buildings.
FRIEDEL: Do we know the roofs on the other buildings arc in good shape? I'm
assuming they've been checked, right?
JUSTIN: They're under regular inspection. And they're about and in relatively good
condition. We don't have any real leaking or any real deterioration, so basically this is
preventative maintenance is what we're looking to do here.
MAYOR DICKEY: Councilman?
SPELICH' Thank you, Madam Mayor.
I know I'm not going to be on the Council but I'm going to make a suggestion. I suggest
that you get Mr. Buick to do a comprehensive study. Yes, I'm saying to spend money on
a study, so everybody stay in their chairs.
ALL: [LAUGHTER].
SPELICH: I have personally been in town hall, in meetings -- I can't remember who I
was meeting with, but 1 was having a meeting with somebody and it was
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raining outside and it was literally raining on his credenza. So I think the same problems
that are currently in the community center are in town hall and I'm not an engineer, but I
know that your credenza should be dry. I suggest that we contract with you and do a
study of town hall while you're hear, and look at that because I believe town hall has the
exact same issues that the community center has.
WELDY: We appreciate that comment. And in fact, the last visit, they did take a look
at town hall. And we are currently working with the vendor that is wet sealing the
community center to look at the windows on town hall. And you are correct, over the
last ten or fifteen years, plus or minus, an incredible amount of money has been spent on
the windows here at town hall, including completely removing one and replacing it. And
we've still not had the best of luck. So we have several windows that leak. His firm,
along with the firm that is currently working on the community center -- and keep in
mind, part of this team moving forward very shortly -- our procurement specialist is
working on a contract -- is to have an architectural firm join with Allana, Buick & Bers
on this project moving forward. And that architectural firm, their specialty is this type,
which is primarily construction deficiencies.
We will have them on board very, very shortly. And well start picking up a little bit of
speed in this marathon as we race towards the end.
MAYOR DICKEY: So at -- nothing that were doing so far needs the architect yet?
That's just -- even the grading and the drains and all that?
MILLER: Yeah, but we do want to bring it on pretty soon
[CROSS TALK]
MILLER: -- because it helps --
BUICK: Sooner -- sooner than later. And also understanding the results, you know, of
these short-term repairs.
MILLER: And help because, as an example, you know, if we're looking at storefront
windows for the community center, it's specking out the right windows and seeing if the
architect can come up with some, you know, other types of options that are, maybe,
lower cost that have the same look and appearance. And certainly, seal in the building.
So I think it's important because it's more than just going and buying windows, it's -- you
got to make sure that one, it -- it integrates with the
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building as it was originally designed and the way it looks. But also make sure it's doing
what it's intended to do, which is keep the water outside the building.
MAYOR DICKEY: All right.
Any further comments?
Th -- yes, Mike?
SCHARNOW: I know this is probably rather miniscule in the big picture, here, but I
mean, with the newer windows and that, I mean, is there -- if we do replace the doors and
windows down the road, 1 mean, is there a significant energy savings, or just small, or do
we know that?
BUICK: Certainly, there's going to be improvement. 1 can't tell you what percentage but
better -- a better seal, maybe a little bit less abuse of the mechanical systems. So
certainly a more thermal efficient system. There's always added benefit.
MAYOR DICKEY: Great. Good thoughts.
Thank you, so much. Thank you for the report. And Justin and everybody, we look
forward to moving forward on this.
Any other comments? Yes?
MILLER: So you'll be seeing more information that, when we come back to the council
retreat, as you start to look at the preliminary facility's reserve and also the capital
improvement program, you'll start to see, at least, some placeholders in future years
related to the community center and the roofs, as well.
MAYOR DICKEY: Thank you.
There's nothing else. We're adjourned.
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